This all started yesterday when my husband was nervously looking at my newly done laundary pile in the living room that was not sorted yet. He just blurted out out very randomly that his underwear had red stuff on it. I was pretty confused because I didn't know why he was telling me this. I was thinking that the red clothes may have bled into his underwear. I asked him why he just blurted it out. He said he just was telling me. I was like...Ok?

He then proceeded to tell me that he had told me about this same pair last week with the same "stain" on them and that I acknowledged what he said. I can be an airhead at times, but something like that would stick out to me just like it did this time. So I seriously doubt that he had already told me last week.
I thought about it and I asked him when he told me last week, like was it morning when I was sleeping or evening and what room were we in. We have a small house, he should have been able to tell me something like that. He got mad and said he didn't know.All he could say is that it was not in the morning when I was sleeping. You could tell me anything in the morning and I won't remember it. I think he should be able to tell me when it was he told me that. I definitly would remember that.

I asked him what he did with the underwear last week after he supposidly told me about the underwear being stained. He said he through them in the wash. I asked him why he didn't show me if it was such a big deal but he couldn't answer that. He just looked away. He was literally talking to me with his eyes looking the other direction.

I asked why he showed me this time. He said that last week he put them in the wash again and they ended back up in the laundary pile. He took this pair of underwear from the laudary pile without looking at them and put them with his clothes for work for the next morning. He said that he noticed the spot on them again yesterday morning and put them back in the dirty laundary again. I washed what was on top of the dirty laudary pile yesterday.
When he saw the pile of laudary that is when he told me about the underwear and we've come full circle to him telling me about the stain.

Honestly, he didn't tell me about them last week. He says he put them in the wash and then this week he saw the stain again and put them back in the wash. Something isn't adding up! Why would he even tell me about this? I really feel confused.

The stain isn't red it looks more like a pearly pink, even after the wash. I'm pretty sure that lipstick does NOT come out in the wash because it is usually oil based. Also, it wasn't me and it isn't even my color. The "stain" goes is only on the outside part of the underwear not the inside.Its right at the top of the underwear, you know, in the right place!No where else on the underwear. A true stain of something else would have gone all the way through, like juice or something.
I could take pics. I'm really sad today and I just feel devastated. I have a lot going on in my life right now and this is all I needed.

If this isn't in the right section please feel free to move it. I am considering getting a forensic examination of them if possible. It may seem like overkill, but if its not lipstick then why be sad about it, right?

Please help and please be kind. I feel sad now and am starting to have a physical reaction to this.
(ps I had posted on another site, but now that site will not load up, maybe its down so if you see this as a duplicate if you're on that site too, its not, but I just need to talk to someone.)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s83/tyler02baby/cheating/IMG_0690.jpg

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s83/tyler02baby/cheating/IMG_0693.jpg

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s83/tyler02baby/cheating/IMG_0695.jpg

[This message edited by itsovernow at 10:07 AM, May 15th (Tuesday)]

given his reaction, trying to backtrack, gaslight and making such a big deal out of this...I'd be wary. very very wary.

you'll find great advice here and support.

next, form a plan. take notes, document his whereabouts, check his phone, email etc.... gather information.

whether you decide to confront him with this is up to you as far as if, or when. when/if you do, be prepared, have your ducks ina row and be ready for more of the same (trying to cover up, back tracking, changing his story etc..)

most importantly, take care of yourself. eat what/when you can. sleep when you can. seek out help here and with a qualified ic. read as much as you can and post as often as you need. you're not alone.

I'm so sorry you are going through this. I looked at the pics and it's definitely what you think it is! For now, I think you should pretend to believe him and go into detective mode. Check his phone, computer, your home phone calling records, and you might want to consider hiring a P.I. If he thinks you are doing any of this, he will 'go underground' and it will be a lot tougher for you to figure out what is going on. Usually, it's a co-worker or even someone previously thought to be a good friend. Keep multiple copies of your evidence in several different places, so he can't destroy it. If she has a husband, you'll need to provide the evidence to him, as well, but don't tell your H you are going to do that until after it is done.

Try to take care of yourself. Stay hydrated. If you can't keep food down, go with protein shakes. Get tested for STDs ASAP- I can't stress how important that is! Know that this is NOT your fault and though you may feel shame and embarrassment, you have done nothing wrong and the shame should be his to bear. Read up in the healing library: http://survivinginfidelity.com/faq_bs.asp and you need to consult an attorney to see what your options are. You don't have to file, it just makes it easier to know what you're looking at should it come to that. Again, all of this has to be done without your Hs knowledge. *sigh* I really am so sorry you are dealing with this. Hugs.

Trust your gut here. I think you are on to something. I'm sorry.

1. I am not as thin as I used to be. I've had 5 kids and my stomach is pudgy although I have been trying to eat healthier.
2. I don't like oral sex. If he had insisted on it, I would have done it, but I never enjoyed it. He's not circumsized and he is very smelly down there.
3. We have not had the best relationship. It seems like were always arguing about something. Maybe I pushed him to this by being so emotionally demanding and wanting a better life for our children. We're always barely making it.
I could go on, but I won't. Maybe its because I'm older He married me at 16, I'm now 34. He's almost 40. He's not a bad looking guy and he's in good shape so that is probably why he did what he did. He works as an electrician and he's always in people's homes with ample time to meet someone. I feel so alone.

I feel SO sick. I can't believe I have to get tested for an STD. I've been clean my whole freakin life!!!!! I'm so sick. Good news is that I did get tested when I was preg with my daughter and it was negative. Its CT state law that a preg woman has to be tested.

Document it all. See if you can remember all his "explanations" of stuff. Keep track of it all.

I honestly think he must be rather dimwitted to be honest. I mean why not throw the underwear away? Since he isn't good at hiding things you will probably have a trail.

So, places to start... Phone-check text messages, contact list, e-mails he gets to his phone. Computer- e-mail accounts, browser history, social media sites (chat logs) and anything else there might be.

If you find something I would just gather the information for now. He is just going to lie and do what we call gaslight. Which is they change the reality and try to make you believe the reality they explain to you. So, gather your proof. Work on finding something you can do to support yourself if the worst happens. Take care of yourself, eat, sleep, exercise and take care of your kids. Find some way to de-stress too. Yoga, long walks, meditation what ever works for you.

Remember you are not alone and we are going through the same thing. We are here for each other and will be here for you. I think a forensic analysis would be awesome. Have no clue how you would go about getting one, but it would be some proof for the eventual confrontation. However, that should be when you have enough proof and a time of your choosing. When you feel strong and are in a place where you can take care of yourself if needed. I actually have a friend I can go to if I needed to leave. Family isn't an option for me either, but my friends is. Sometimes in our dark hours we don't see all our options. Good luck and remember we are here for you!
(((itsovernow)))

You made a fool out of me and she made a fool out of you

I know you are thinking one way...but, please look for additional "evidence" to support your theory.

I use TIDE...and it changes the color of the original stain....

Also, make sure you look in the dryer for anything that could be a base color... crayons are notorious little oil based devils...

I'm not making excuses for him or anything...but, you also want to ensure that you look for all possible other avenues....

Okay, if he is smelly down there so you don't like to give oral, have him wash first. I talked about hygiene with my WH and we are on a better track now. Of course this is our road to R. You may choose not to do this.

Visit the Healing Library. It has a lot of good articles for us BS. It takes 2 to have a good marriage. It takes 2 to rebuild a marriage. It also takes honesty to keep a marriage. So, remember he is lying to you. As long as he lies to you then there is no chance for change there. Save the underwear and the test underwear for a special day of your choosing. Remember to be in control and not let him be in control.

I've had a lot of different things happen over the years. 1 being I found a very thin long blond hair on his clothing about 8 years ago. I've found semen in his black underwear about 11 years ago, He "gaslit" those very well because I'm still here. I woke up and found him gone when he still should have been home. He didn't answer his phone. This was about 6 years ago. Maybe I just married a cheater. Maybe he's been this way forever and covers it up.

Yep, looks like your H had himself a nice lil blow job, and the reason he mentioned the 'stain' was because he was trying to do damage control. I'm sure he figured you had already seen the stain. I'm sure his guilty conscious never imagined that you would simply over look it thinking that it was just a matter of another fabric 'bleeding' onto the underwear.

I am so sorry.

Okay breathe.

And take one step at a time...

Get tested for STD's immediately.

INSIST that he be tested also and that his doctor needs to call YOU with his test results. This is no joke. This is serious serious business, and if this SOB can not comply with this simple request, KICK HIM OUT!

And PLEASE quit blaming yourself!

This is ALL on him !!!!!!!!!!!!

Start digging...

Check phone bills, credit card bills, hire a PI, what ever, to get the info you need if he is not forthcoming with info.

It is completely possible that this could be a one-time fuck-up that he may never repeat again, OR it could just be the tip of the iceberg....(unfortunately, what we first find is usually just the tip of the iceberg )

Again, I am so sorry.

And yes, that is lipstick.

From my experience (I stain my clothes a lot - as in daily), lip gloss leaves a grease-like stain, but no colour, that is if it leaves anything at all. In order for lipstick to leave that colour stain, it would have been a dark or vibrant colour to start with.

Put your efforts into something like a VAR in his car...that should lead you to the OW.

Or, put a GPS tracker on his work truck.

I just don't even know what to do.

For now, quit talking to him about it. The more you confront and make an issue of it right now, the further underground he will take this.

See your Doc immediately for STD testing and ask if there is mild tranquilizer you could take temporarily that would not affect the breast milk. You need something to calm you a little.

Read up on the 180, and start following it. This will help you take care of YOU.

Start calling lawyers and making appts for initial consultations. Most will do a FREE initial consult, or very low charge. You MUST find out what your rights are whether or not you choose to R or D.

Take care honey.

Still...

BECAUSE YOU ARE A NURSING MOTHER, GET TESTED FOR STD'S ASAP. Somehow I doubt that the state of CT requires that a woman be tested for all STD's when pregnant. You need to be tested for anything that could be passed in your milk, which would include Hep C and HIV. You also should have another PAP done to make sure that there's nothing growing inside you, such as genital warts.

Like you, I found clues over the years of my marriage. And like you, I ignored them. I explained them away to myself. I gaslit myself. I didn't want to believe my husband was capable of cheating, I had other things going on in my life, being in denial was safer & more comfortable.

There came a point, though, when the things I found couldn't be ignored any longer. I had to put down my denial because my husband was actually exposing me & the children to dangerous criminal elements. In the past year I have discovered such depths of sexual debauchery I didn't even know existed - AND IT EXISTED IN ****MY*** LIFE BECAUSE MY HUSBAND WAS INTO IT.

For me, it has been a slow process of uncovering information on my own (because you can be damned sure he wasn't telling me anything), going through the shock & horror, then dealing with my new reality, finding my footing, trying to make sense of it, then discovering more information. The past year of my life has been an almost non-stop discovery-fest. The things I discovered about my own husband, oh Father in Heaven, have stunned me.

Take your time, sister. But don't live in denail. Know the reality of your life. YOU DESERVE TO KNOW THE TRUTH OF YOUR OWN LIFE. And believe me when I tell you, the truth of your life includes whatever it is your husband is up to. You deserve to know. You NEED to know.

If you know the password(s) on his phone, email, computer, anything else, then you need to spend some quality time playing detective. If you think you're snooping, you're not. YOU DESERVE TO KNOW THE TRUTH OF YOUR LIFE. If you are a betrayed wife & mother, you deserve to know.

If you find out something shocking, print it out. Make two copies.

Pick ONE person in your real life & confide in them. I found that once I started telling people in my real life, I found strength & support I didn't think existed.

((((HUGS))))

As to some of the other, he is gas lighting you like a pro. He did not tell you before. He is also being verbally abusive. Picking fights then calling YOU abusive? Discounting your concerns? Textbook verbal abuse.

Look at putting a keylogger on his computer or a VAR in his car. You don't need a forensic test, it's obviously lipstick.

The "test undies" came out of the wash. They were still very very lightly stained with my red lipgloss. The "bad underwear" must have had some really really dark lipstick or lip gloss on them to still be on there like that. He tried to tell me it was fire caulk that they use sometimes at work, but theres no way. He's had that crap on his clothes before and it goes all hard like cement.

He tried to tell me it was fire caulk that they use sometimes at work, but theres no way. He's had that crap on his clothes before and it goes all hard like cement.

I think that is a possibility though. The caulk may harden but the dye in the caulk could have penetrated.

Check his phone, and maybe a var in his truck to hopefully give you peace of mind.

I did manage to take a shower, clean up a little and take care of the babies. I will take care of the things I need to do and my husband just called to argue and insult me. I told him that my 16 year old is home now and I will not talk about this now. I have contacted 2 private forensic experts in my state. Hopefully they don't laugh it off and not contact me. I haven't heard anything. I did email my pastors wife for support and heard nothing. I guess this is one of those horrible things no one wants to talk about in real life, right? I feel disgusted and all I can do is think of his thing in the OW mouth. I'm sick.

I will try to be as calm and collected as I can for now. I'm trying to tell myself I'm not losing anyone special. He can't be worth anything if he could do this and put me and his breastfed daughter in danger of an STD. Yes I'm going to get tested. The pig is coming home now.
I'm going to come back tommorow since I won't be able to come back on tonight. He's glued to me at the hip. He goes everywhere with me, I get no free time when he's home.

Stay strong.

I'll be praying for you.

Peace.

So hard to decipher...
If it really was caulk, why the heck was he so quick to point it out and run interference in the first place? His behavior is what leads me to believe he's guilty... however, this is what I'd do:

Next time he's yelling at you, pacify him. Say, ok, it's fine, I believe you, whatever it is he wants to hear. Tell him you don't want to argue, apologize (if you can stomach it) and let him think it's over.
Meanwhile, a VAR, keylogger, etc is where I'd be headed next. You'll get your answers one way or the other. I know it's hard to pretend everything is peachy, but that's definitely what I'd do.

I have no one to confide in.

First thing is to tell yourself you will be okay. You will survive this. You will! Many of us here have already been thru it and we are doing just fine. For me, I lost 20 pounds in 2 months and went through hell in the beginning.

I am fine now.

I agree you are not losing anything special....he sounds verbally/emotionally abusive. How on earth did YOU put up with him for so long? You must be a saint.

Take care of yourself and your babies. If you feel the need for further proof, don't let on what you suspect anymore.

Go into actress mode and pretend everything is fine. Let him let down his guard. You know why he mentioned that stain to you? His guilty conscience was afraid you had already seen it and he was trying to do damage control.

You don't have to make any decisions right now. You have plenty of time. Let some of the shock wear off first.

And don't worry about age....I was 44 when I found out my WS was cheating. I left mine because he never would be honest with me and I felt I couldn't stay with someone I couldn't trust. There are some on here who leave, and some who reconcile and work thru everything.

It is your choice. But to reconcile successfully, he is going to have to take ownership of his problems and his cheating, and he doesn't sound anywhere close to that right now. So just concentrate on protecting you and your kids right now.

P.s. I was a stay at home mom, now I am a college girl, and excelling at it! There is life after cheating!!!

I also just want to chime in and tell you that I care and am pulling for you. So awful to have so many difficulties at once going on, but you will be surprised by your own strength.
The detective thing is hard, but necessary. You have been in the dark for too long, it's time to know, once and for all. You, and your children, are worth it.
I also am an"unskilled" mother and just got a job I love at a daycare!! You never know. Talk to a lawyer if worrying about how you and your kids will be supported is holding you back from learning the truth.
Hugs to you and keep posting!! SI helped save my sanity.

That being said, it is possible its something else, but his reaction is bizarre. Why the HELL would he tell you he had stain on his underwear if he new it was lipstick...is he "special"?? Most men would chuck those bad boys in the trash so fast, especially if they noticed the stain AFTER you already washed them and he thought "shit a brick, i better put them back into the laundry for her to wash then again" that makes him a dumbass.

He very well could be a dumbass...most WH/WW are!

I agree, forget forensics, i almost doubt you will get any info after all the laundering anyway and wow expensive.

DO NOT SAY ANOTHER WORD ABOUT THIS TO HIM..LET IT GO IMMEDIATLY!!

I say this because ohh how i wish i had read this back in early feb when i found the whores website (read my story) and confronted him, i let him lie..and let myself be gaslighted...instead of buying a 30.00 VAR and putting a damn keylogger on his phone :( That would have solved EVERYTHING!!! I would have had him busted the very next day! He isnt ever going to believe you put a VAR in his car/truck!!! Keyloggers are cheap too!

Please do not engage him, or he may go underground DEEP and stop talking in the car and on his phone..or using puters you have access to....shhhhhhh go in stealth mode!

We are here for you when you find out what you need to find out. In the mean time get your ducks in a row sweety!

My suggestion is to look at his cell phone bill, see if you can check his email. place a gps in the car.

Don't confront over little things. Wait until you have evidence.

Take care of yourself and your children. 180 his ass.

There are more things I just can't remember them. Its early and I'm still having my coffee.
In a nutshell he is the victim and I'm torturing him.
I DON'T get this at all. Its so obvious! How in the world can he turn it on me?! What else could it be. Its clearly makeup. Only makeup has that color.

I guess I can try to keep my mouth shut and play the game for my benefit. I know what a GPS is but a VAR? I better look up the acronyms. The problem is that he is always next to me. He is very very on me at all times. I guess I could send him to the store. The cell phone is impossible. It belongs to his boss. He works for a small company with 2 worker and his boss issued the cell phone and has access to the bill. My husband says that his boss looks over the phone bill because he's cheap. IDK though. Its worth a look.
I'm pretty new to the snooping stuff. I've always just let his explainations slide.
BTW he's saying he'll pay for the forensics test.

Also, going on the offense and blaming you is a classic WS move. They try to get the attention off of themselves.

1. " Its all on me"
2. " How could I do this to him"

3. He doesn't want to be alive anymore.

4. "an apology won't be enough"

5. He got angry that I had make up on when I went to the post office. really? I wear makeup all the time.

6. He keeps warning me that I better be careful. I think he's threatening to take my kids. Thats all it could mean. I love them so much. I don't care if I lose him at this point I already lost him.

Also, if he makes you afraid at all, if he is abusive in any way, call a woman's shelter. #6 was a threat. I do not like the tone of that. If he is making you feel your safety or the safety of your children are at risk, call a shelter and find out your options there also. They won't make you leave, they will only inform you of your options.

I'm sorry you are dealing with all this. My WS had the capacity to be abusive. He got really nasty and thew something at me when I confronted him. He told me it was all my fault and I was ruining our relationship. Yuck. I don't miss him.

But I understand you worrying about the kids. That is why you need to see the lawyer to find out what you need to do to make sure if you decide to split the courts treat you well.....

I think you know something is going on...all a BS needs is their gut screaming and yours is, you even mentioned a blond hair from awhile ago....that tells me that if you really get honest with yourself and sit down and write out everything you have suspected in the last 10 years that there will be a pattern.

Go silent right now and get smarter! Take some time to look thru all of your finances, go thru all of your bills, get proactiv and find out what is going on in your life around you.

And DO NOT tell him you are doing any of this...sit back and just watch and investigate. I think you have much more to learn.

He actually called me this morning and told me to get on this so he doesnt' have to live like this. I'm really really confused.

I agree with realitybites. Drop it. Your gut is screaming the truth to you, and honestly, I've never seen a case on here where a person's gut instincts were wrong (I'm sure it could happen, I just haven't seen it).

Go into survival mode. Play his game for now. Tell him you are sorry, you realize you were overreacting. Tell him you threw the underwear away and just want to get new ones so you don't have to worry about it anymore. If he has been doing this for years, he is used to you sweeping this stuff under the rug and he expects you to do it again.

Then, take those undies and start hiding them, preferably in a trusted relative's home. Stick any proof you find while you are sleuthing into a small box and keep it until you feel you have enough.

But, keep coming here, because he is going to keep gaslighting and confusing you. You will need the wake up calls from here to keep you on your path.

And the hugs and support don't hurt either ((((hugs))))

I will get a VAR. Thats my best bet. I think his boss has him beat to the VAR in the workvan though. His boss is mistrusting of everyone so according to my husband he said his boss told him that they may be recorded at anytime. Unless he was just saying that to me to get me to think that he's covered at work when he's really not.
I have to second guess everything. This really sucks.
I woke up with a good attitude, enough to see the kids off to school but now I'm slowly sliding down that depressed road. I feel sick. Its been 1 1/2 days and my pants, which I slept in, are loose. I'm drinking my water since I'm nursing. I eat those Luna bars so I can get some nurtrients and the coffee, I don't have a choice. I'm up nursing still since I have not started food with my 7 mo old. I've always been an avid breastfeeder.
I confided in my pastors wife through email and she has given me NOTHING still. I get discouraged when I check my inbox because there is nothing there.
No mom to confide in(she's sick) no sisters, one lives far and has her own problems and the other is in her own world and doesn't even have time for her own family.

I'm happy I have this place.

I have 2 ebay accounts. I guess its time to use the less used one and get what I need. I wonder if they will hold it at the post office. Sometimes our mail comes late. I know my mailman though so maybe he'll hold big packages for me.

I sent you a PM.

It starts with babysteps and being able to find yourself again.

Sweetie, can you somehow start to take care of yourself. I know how hard it can be when you are the caregiver to EVERYONE including nursing. I know I felt a mess through out my breastfeeding years. I always felt "stained" either with breast milk, baby spit...you know.

You said you are an EBAYer, can you ebay some clothes lots in your size.

I buy second clothes by choice from a consignment shop in my area. I also turn in clothes there so I almost always have a credit to continue shopping.

Go into survival mode for you! Try to pull yourself together as much as possible. You are a strong women wether you know or not. You found SI, right? You are reaching out for help. I hope SI can at least provide support for you emotionally.

When did my sister forget she had a heart. This is the one who only cares about money and things. When did she forget that her family may be hurting and its all good to be a counselor to others but if you cannot help your own family, what good are you?
My BIL seemed shocked. Maybe thats why he responded like that.
I've never been on my own, I married at 16. My BIL doesn't think I can be on my own and he is probably scared of the same thing I am, my dh will get the kids.

Maybe he's right? I can't bear not seeing my kids or losing custody of them. I love them so much. Do I stay with the cheater for them? Do I play it off? Oh , Gosh I can't believe I'm thinking like this.

Oh Dear Lord, please help me. Please.

I actually would consider talking to a women's shelter. They will have resources to help you. Your husband doesn't have to know about it, and you don't have to leave home per se (In fact, I would have a lawyer require him to leave the home and to pay child support into the state-mandated system)

The problem is this: nothing will ever get better unless you take a VERY strong stand NOW. You can PM me if you'd like. Trust me, I know where you're coming from. It only feels hopeless, it's not.

Also, you should go see about applying for welfare and WIC if you're on your own. Some people have a stigma that they wouldn't couldn't do that -- but why not? Who better for it to go to than someone like you?

He's treating you like this because he thinks he can, and if you let him, he's right.

Based on his reactions alone, I say guilty. As someone with actual brain damage, I can tell you, given your H's excuses, there is no way I would fall for the ole "I told you about these before" because given you've already noticed suspicious things or behavior, you'd be right on it the first time like a bloodhound.

That said, I've also thought of a couple of things. There may be a chance (just a chance) he's visiting strip clubs & getting private time in the back rooms. The worst of these places offer BJ's to the whole works, the lesser may offer whatever is possible w/o skin to skin contact, say simulating a BJ with kissing or blowing warm air. This would fit into the lipstick marks, his dirty black shorts, stray hairs and have you ever seen glitter? These gals (not to mention something OW also do) seem to leave behind something for the wife to find.

When I was okay with strip clubs (not anymore) my H usually went w/a friend or two (and I didn't know what lap dances could actually become)he'd have to strip when he came home..because I'm horrendously sensitive to whore perfume, hehe. But omg, the condition of the outside of his pants, well there was usually makeup transfer & glitter. He noticed it too & quit wearing dark pants on his other, soon to be short-lived, visits.

That said, since your H didn't admit to even this, chances are it's probably something or someone else :(

I'll give you an excuse to use so you can pretend to drop the matter...if it fits into your H's toileting habits. I noticed the center of his waistband on his tighty whities looked worn. This makes me wonder if when he goes to wee, he just pulls them down under his johnson, rather than pull it through the space built into the jockies for that purpose. Assuming this, and also he was talking about chalk, and not caulk, go here: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100038588/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=chalk+line&storeId=10051

This is a type of chalk that is used in construction jobs to set a straight line by nailing the string on top (which goes through the chalk filled bob to the bottom, then a person holds the bob and snaps a straight line. Now hold that thought. Let's assume he's set a line or came in contact with the red chalk..nature calls. He pulls down his waste band and then using most likely his left hand, he pinches his jockies to lower them with his thumb and index finger & uses one more to help lower them under his johnson. That being accomplished he uses his right hand to hold said johnson in proper angle to toilet or urinal or open field.

Three flaws with this argument. Depending on the work he does, new construction leaves bare areas for the electricians to come in and do their wiring. However if he also does old construction than I can understand him laying a line to cut, say sheetrock or plaster board. 2nd flaw...why wouldn't his right hand also be covered with chalk. 3rd flaw, why didn't he bother to explain this to you. At the least when my H is proving his innocence, he will do leaps and bounds to illustrate where my logic is flawed. This excuse, if you use it though & then pretend to drop the matter, I'm sure he'll readily accept. Then you can lay low and investigate further, once he thinks he's in the clear again. Do try to observe him using the toilet & whether this is a technique he uses or not.

Now is he running scared? You betcha, because adultery is a cause for divorce in Conn & I think the underwear with other evidence could be added to the case, if D becomes something in the future...there also may be tell tale DNA left. Even if it's something you don't want, at this point you have to put D on the table as it proceeds to you gathering evidence.

And because it's a cause, it probably also comes into play as it regards child custody matters. Even when adultery isn't a cause in no fault states, it's always a good matter to bring up, since judges still don't take kindly to it.

Now I've given you an excuse you can use & tell him you thought through his explanation & realized you overreacted and the matters dropped. Only don't drop it and use it to rationalize or rugsweep. Again, based on my experiences, an innocent person would not have reacted, such as your husband has.

So one last thought. His employer. Yes, he could be using him as a smokescreen,lulling you into a false sense of security that the boss is so tight, that your H would never act out during work hours. If in fact, they actually have disclosed your husband may be "recorded", the most common thing they will do is put a GPS device on their vehicles...less of a chance there is actual recording of voices during the work day. If you get a chance, I'd definitely move the passenger seat to a position that makes it easier for you to observe if it's been moved. Mine is set to my petite frame and goes up quite far, so easy to look at from outside and see if it's been moved back. I have some more info to share which I will PM, since it's usually mentioned in the IT forum, which you won't have access to until you make more posts.

For right now, just know you'll get through this and take care of you and your children. A few years back there was a mother of five, who'd D'd her abusive husband and was able to relocate to a job as a nanny/housekeeper for a well off family & she reported she was happy as could be. So if the worst does come to pass, just know it's possible to reforge a new life for yourself.

Edited to add: you could run to a hardware store & buy some of that red chalk and see how it reacts to a washing. Also I posted in general a pretty good description on proving adultery in South Carolina. Do visit a lawyer cause all states are different, but it does give you an idea as to gathering evidence & what doesn't apply can be thrown out later.
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=456725

[This message edited by oldtimer97 at 10:40 AM, May 16th (Wednesday)]

Hugs.

That said, I've also thought of a couple of things. There may be a chance (just a chance) he's visiting strip clubs & getting private time in the back rooms.
He works for an employer that has 2 employees, him and another guy. There is another boss, but he isn't present anymore. His boss is a Sunday School teacher, although he isn't the nicest guy from what my husband says. They don't do the club scene. I don't think he has time too. He leaves at 6:30 to get to work by 7 and he leaves work at 3:30 to get home by 4. He's pretty precise. There is no out time. He doesn't let me out of his sight so I wouldn't return the favor to him. He's always on everything I do. He doesn't have freinds that he hangs with he always says that I'm enough and we don't need freinds, we're married. In the day he has a 10 minute break at 10 and luch for 30 min at 12. He calls me both those times, every day. Not my choice, but his. His claim is he has no time and that no woman is going to settle for 10 minutes here and there, but there are a lot and lot of whores out there that are nymphos that would.

it's probably something or someone else :(

This is what I think. He does a lot of old work in apartments, some very shady areas. Who knows maybe someone had the electrician/construction worker fantasy and he thought I will never know.
I'll give you an excuse to use so you can pretend to drop the matter...if it fits into your H's toileting habits. I noticed the center of his waistband on his tighty whities looked worn.
This makes me wonder if when he goes to wee, he just pulls them down under his johnson, rather than pull it through the space built into the jockies for that purpose.

Yep, thats exactly what he does.

Assuming this, and also he was talking about chalk, and not caulk, go here: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100038588/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=chalk+line&storeId=10051

This is a type of chalk that is used in construction jobs to set a straight line by nailing the string on top (which goes through the chalk filled bob to the bottom, then a person holds the bob and snaps a straight line.
I know this kind, he does use it.

Now hold that thought. Let's assume he's set a line or came in contact with the red chalk..nature calls. He pulls down his waste band and then using most likely his left hand, he pinches his jockies to lower them with his thumb and index finger & uses one more to help lower them under his johnson. That being accomplished he uses his right hand to hold said johnson in proper angle to toilet or urinal or open field.

Three flaws with this argument. Depending on the work he does, new construction leaves bare areas for the electricians to come in and do their wiring. However if he also does old construction than I can understand him laying a line to cut, say sheetrock or plaster board. 2nd flaw...why wouldn't his right hand also be covered with chalk.

My husband is strictly left handed, don't know if this makes a difference, though.

3rd flaw, why didn't he bother to explain this to you. At the least when my H is proving his innocence, he will do leaps and bounds to illustrate where my logic is flawed. This excuse, if you use it though & then pretend to drop the matter, I'm sure he'll readily accept. Then you can lay low and investigate further,

I guess this is my only way of knowing. I think I'm still getting over the shock and I feel like I'm drowning in sadness and at the same time having to function.

I don't think he even cares. I honestly think that he is so used to me looking the other way that he "knows" I'll do it again.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A very bad situation. Nothing seems "normal" in your situation.

Your BIL is wrong- very very wrong.

Your husband is manipulating you, isolating you, and controlling you. You are not in a marriage. He is wrong, very very wrong.

He does not treat you like a grown up, a partner, or even, it seems, as a person.

Please seek help- you need advice from somewhere familiar with your type of situation(a shelter or something similar) on how to deal with your circumstances.

Keep posting here, too.

You are a good mom- he will never be able to take the children unless he runs off with them. Don't let that fear stop you from protection yourself and them.

They need you. They need you to protect yourself, respect yourself, and be respected.

I am sorry. Hold strong for your littles.

I have an anxiety disorder. I don't know if this type of thing can be used against me. It doesn't affect how I care for my kids, though. I take Paxil and Klonopin-only .05 a day. My dr prescribes everything that I have taken and its been about 6 or 7 years.
Honestly, my husband makes me uneasy because I've always caught him in lies, like with the semen in the black underwear, calling out a girls name twice in his sleep by the name of Heather. This was 9 years ago. When I confronted him he said I must have been dreaming. He also left early for work one day. He denied that too even though I looked at the clock and tried to call him. He makes me a wreck.
I'm scared he'll use the anxiety disorder against me...bottom line.

You are worth so much more. Do you want your kids to learn from his behavior? Because they will.

Things I have to say- any man I've ever known wouldn't have batted an eye at the stain in his undies. Not to throw them away or bring it up MUCH LESS throw them in for a FLIPPING SECOND WASH! His being nervous and mentioning it is a huge thing for me.

The mentioning that his boss gets the phone bill and checks his calls/texts is a red flag to me.
Basically he is saying - "Don't bother asking my boss because he is already checking it- and I'd be in trouble if there were anything to see".

His saying there's probably a VAR in his car- Yeah- again- "Nothing to SEE HERE". So he's saying- I'm tracked everywhere I go- you have nothing to worry about.

He is so flipping paranoid it isn't funny. He keeps trying to convince you that he will take the kids if you try to leave because HE is scared you will take them from him and wants to scare you into thinking you don't have a chance. WH did this early on in our relationship. I said- OH HELL NO- I got proof of everything we owned- all of our income- all of the kid's medical records and made copies of everything showing I am the primary care provider for my children and that WH did nothing.
Next time he said that to me- I laughed at him and asked him if my forehead SAID STUPID? I told him to watch his ass. I wasn't worried at all. I told him I would NEVER take his kids away from him unless he was harming them and if he wanted to threaten to do it to me- I'd reconsider!
He hasn't EVER said that since.

Anyway- it sounds bad to me. Even if it's not an A.
It does sound like one though.

I once waited for my H to get back from a "TOW" and the road was closed going toward our house so he'd have to come by me if he was returning home. He didn't come by me. He wasn't where he said he'd be. I confronted him and he said "So- what? You're fucking following me?!" and then proceeded to make me feel like a distrustful bitch for questioning him. He made up an excuse. I dropped it and started investigating further. One week later I had all the evidence I needed.

Hang in there. Get the FACTS and get out (assuming that's what you want).

Good luck and I'm SOOOOOOOOO sorry you had to join this group!

Read through the advice when you get a chance. Make the underwear not a big deal. Investigate.

Research and get help.

Read through the advice when you get a chance. Make the underwear not a big deal. Investigate.

Research and get help.

He can NOT take your kids because you have anxiety and are on meds to treat it. Many people are on anti-anxiety meds. The very fact that you are taking medication to treat your anxiety shows that you are getting help for a medical condition.

I have an excellent relationship with my doctor. he knows everything concerning my FWS and the way the cheating has affected me. have you be open with your doctor,does he know your WS is the reason for your anxiety? If so,he can testify to that in court.

He just left again to pick up the two middle boys, and I got a movie so that should take him even longer to go and get. Its called "The Devil Inside" I thought the title was appropriate so weather or not it sucks, oh well. Its the horrible mood I'm in right now.

**Here is the latest crap he's telling me. This is the most disgusting garbage I have ever heard in my life. He is saying I just want a divorce and I'm trying to get rid of him and I'm using the underwear as an excuse!! Really?! WTF? I don't want a divorce but I may have to if he will not come clean.
He also suggested I mail the underwear to a forensic examiner and I said NO! I explained that they are worth a million dollars to me. And right away, the jerk thought I meant because of court and a judge. I quickly corrected him and explained I meant my children. If that isn't lipstick, I don't have to split my family up. I will be doing a dance of joy. I will quickly apologize and even update everyone on here.
Then lastly he said I'm NOT trying HARD enough to find a forensic investegator. I can't believe he said that! Its not like they're just waiting desperatly by the phone because they need work.
I'm so floored at his insults. He's obviously trying to turn the tables to make me look like the "Bad guy" which in turn makes him look more guilty.
He said the only reason he's paying for this test is because he shouldn't have told me.

[This message edited by itsovernow at 5:46 PM, May 16th (Wednesday)]

This is a really short ugly chapter in a really long great book.

I also think you are being emotionally abused in a way. Your H doesn't want you to have any time away from either him or the kids. He expects you to be at his side and he is up your ass all the time. I would also bet he subtly puts you down more often than you even realize. That is abuse, IMO. It also serves to let him keep the upper hand. You are now worried about him keeping your children away from you. How awful. Furthermore, you say he used to hit you like a child when he didn't approve of something. Sweetie, he has beaten you into submission and now that you are standing up for yourself he is scrambling and trying to make you out to be crazy. It is just awful and I'm so sorry for what you are dealing with.

Please do whatever you can to raise your self-esteem. Count the times he insults you or your intelligence. If it were me I would call him on it when he does. Maybe you could say "wow, that was an insult. I don't think I'm that way at all and you should apologize". Maybe, just maybe, he will stop feeling so entitled to being a bully to you.

You sound amazing. You are a great mother, you are breastfeeding and feel strongly about it, you sell things on ebay and make money from it, you make sure your kids have their needs met without much money...I could keep going but you get the point. You are a wonderful woman and worthy of love and appreciation. You are not getting your needs met in this situation and I feel so sad for you.

I'm sending positive thoughts and big hugs that your life moves in a direction that is best for you and your children.

Here's a few thoughts (and some that have already been spoken)

1) Hide those underwear somewhere safe. Give him another pair. Mark them with your lipstick and hand them over. If you can't make them match then tell him you are very sorry but you washed them because you were so upset with thought that they "could be" lipstick and the stain came out. Then show him clean underwear and give him those. Then let it go. You need to go back to normal.

2) If you use internet explorer or firefox... then start using private browsing for all your posting to SI and all your snooping. You can't rely on the fact that you will remember to clear your internet searches.

3) You really need to just lay low for a while and let this die down in my opinion. You need time to make a safe plan for yourself and your children. Talk to a lawyer. Get a VAR. etc. Take your time! Mistakes are made when you are hasty!!!!

Take a breath.....

It is so important to act wisely now.

And again, find some way to call a woman's shelter and at least talk to someone. You are being abused.

It does NOT matter at this point whether he cheated or not. He is holding you hostage. He has you beaten down and brainwashed. I am an abuse survivor. You do NOT have to live like this.

You are young. He is making you sick. You are taking medications BECAUSE of him. He is not worth your health or your life.

I know this is super scary to you and I understand the kids deal. I stayed longer than I should have because mine threatened to take my children away too. It was awful....he followed me around with a recorder and kept telling me that he was getting information that would make the judge see I was crazy and take my kids away.

He always threatened if I ever left him he would take my children.

He didn't (he tried) but even with all the threats and the "ammo" he felt he had on me, we still ended up with shared custody and I am the residential parent and the one in charge of the health and schooling. My kids are okay now. Our divorce was 6 years ago. If I had stayed, my kids would not have been okay, and I would probably be in a mental hospital by now.

I called the Domestic Abuse Hotline, but I kept refusing to believe I was being abused and it took a counselor to help me realize I needed to get away. I will always be thankful to him for that.

I did not get help from a women's shelter until I actually got the divorce, and I wish I had known about them much sooner. They have been a lifeline for me.

They can help with financial resources, safety, support through the court process, obtaining a P.O. if necessary (and it may be in your case....if he used to hit you, there is nothing to make me think he might not do it again if provoked.)

Please be careful, do not let him know you may be thinking of leaving!!!

Keep erasing your history, and find some way to get some help. You will need it for a while, and that is what they are there for.

Sending you ((((hugs))) and strength.

[This message edited by NaiveAgain at 10:01 PM, May 16th (Wednesday)]

I keep trying to browse in private, but it always seems like my history is still there.

3) You really need to just lay low for a while and let this die down in my opinion. You need time to make a safe plan for yourself and your children. Talk to a lawyer. Get a VAR. etc. Take your time! Mistakes are made when you are hasty!!!!
Its time to lay low. I totally agree. I can't go on with this tension much longer even if he is a dog.

Last night he kept bringing up the underwear. In a nutshell he told me I am wrong for doing this to him. He also said he has to spend money on a forensic scientist because I had a bad childhood! He blames everything on my parents. (My dad did bad things but my dad isn't the one with lipstick on his underwear and he is NOT a part of my life and hasn't been since I was 16.)
I told my husband that I think he has a sociopathic personality(I couldn't help myself) he said that its great that I learned a couple things in school) I called him on that insult. I kept my cool, in fact I kept my cool so well, he was nervously laughing like a psychopath for about 20 minutes before he went to bed. I've never heard this from him before. I guess it happened when I told him that I informed my family about what happened. He just started laughing, but it just wasn't normal. He kept trying to make jokes, he would say something he thought I would laugh at and I wouldn't do it. He just kept laughing and repeating pretty loudly, "its not lipstick, its not lipstick" I was embarrassed thinking my eldest son heard this.

I have to add that even though my sister and BIL don't care one bit about what he did to me, I do have a sister who just moved to Florida. She has her own problems now since she's trying to find a job, but she ended her marriage of about 20 years because her husband was always trying to bring others into their marriage. She ended the marriage not even 2 years ago but found someone that treats her like gold.
This sister cares, but she's so far away. I'm glad I told her because it feels like I'm sharing the burden. She said she'd pray for me and she wants me to have the underwear tested. Its werid, we think alike, she said it before I did.

[This message edited by itsovernow at 7:52 AM, May 17th (Thursday)]

He's a Sunday School teacher, Deacon in his church, and has been a marriage counselor and I DON'T think he is a nice guy at all due to unfair business practices but thats beisdes the point.
I'll bet sending him those pictures would fix my husbands A$$ real quick.

I've never been so humiliated in my life.

I keep trying to browse in private, but it always seems like my history is still there.

Download Google Chrome, and browse in Incognito mode. There should be no cookies or history saved.

I am really glad you told your sister and that you have someone IRL that you can reach out to for support.

Even *if* this isn't lipstick,his insensitivity and direspect is horrible.

What a fucking asshole.

Please keep posting and I hope you are able to gain some strength from all of us here. We're here for you.

Please get some help. Standing up to my husband, the "friend" other woman, my parents and all the people in my life that were so toxic and cruel -- it's made all the difference for me and my children.

Listen...I realize this is all very overwhelming to you right now you are getting hit with alot of advice all over the place. I think you just need to lay low, stop engaging with him even if he escalates, because he will just know that...and get yourself together and leave it alone.

If he brings up the underwear one more time? Tell him that you feel he is right, thank him for being truthful (puke) be a great actress and just DROP IT.

I realize your sister said to get it tested but the underwear is not your problem, trust me. Even if you got the test tomorrow and it came back positive and proved he is lying WHAT are you going to do? Because you don't have a plan at the moment. So please, for your sake, unless you are ready to back everything up and leave the house with the kids (which you are not) just drop it and get your ducks in a row with working on other things that you need right now.

For your own safety and your kids. If you had a place to go or money set aside to get out of town or for a lawyer I would tell you to do something. But right now you are sitting in that house knowing something is not right but you have no game plan.

Lay low and get smarter.

Because you don't have a plan at the moment. So please, for your sake, unless you are ready to back everything up and leave the house with the kids (which you are not) just drop it and get your ducks in a row with working on other things that you need right now.

He isn't physically abusing me or the kids. I just wanted to make that clear to everyone, however I know that emotional abuse is bad too. He has done that plenty of times tonight even and I called him on it.
In fact he started about how HES paying HIS money to get the underwear tested and he was going on about a credit card we used to have and said HES paying it off so why do I care. I reminded him that the day we got married his money became ours and that I've earned my keep. I'm raising 5 children. Sometimes I feel that he likes to rub him being the only working parent in my face. Oh and he also said, that this is really hurting him! Really?!
He's totally acting like the victim.

He told me he told his boss.

I'm having a pretty hard night tonight. He really keeps bringing it up. He swears to God he didn't do anything. Honestly, him swearing to God doesn't mean anything anymore. I feel sick and alone and the rug that I felt safe with for 18 years has now been pulled out from underneath me.
I really can't just leave.

You do have options, if you think outside of the box. Good luck

You need short-term goals and long-term goals. Safety is paramount. Start collecting important documents like tax returns, pay stubs, birth certificates, etc. Make copies and store them at a friend's.

Start snagging cash. Return grocery items for cash if you have to. Get maintenance done to your car now while you still have access to money. Think tires, brakes, routine stuff.

Step back for just a minute, take a deep breath, and THINK. Then plan. Do not react. Plan.

You need short-term goals and long-term goals. Safety is paramount. Start collecting important documents like tax returns, pay stubs, birth certificates, etc. Make copies and store them at a friend's.

I have no friends to store this stuff at. I just haven't had time build friendships since my husband is always there.

Start snagging cash. Return grocery items for cash if you have to. Get maintenance done to your car now while you still have access to money. Think tires, brakes, routine stuff.

I can save cash, but there isn't going to be much of it. I only have the small amount I make on ebay. The car is totally maintained and was just serviced however my husband pays the paymnent on it. If I take it I'll lose it.

If you have a Discover card, then you should be able to get cash back using it. My Discover allows cash back with a pin number. Use the card to get money out, and leave with your children when the time is right.

The interest rate would be insane. I don't want to get myself in trouble.

If I leave with the kids, he may be able to get me for kidnapping. I'm not sure of the law thats why if I am going to go this route, I'll have to do this legally and talk to a lawyer. Someone gave me a number for one and I'll keep it. I just don't want to do anything that would cause me any more problems then I already have. My husbands mother, for example, has been divorced 3 times and she was dragging her ex to court every other day it seemed. She even accused him of all types of things to make life hard for him. He wasn't a great husband but she definitly made life hard for him.
My husband learned this, he may do it to me if I leave.

Hearing the fear of your husband in your posts breaks my heart. It sounds as though he has beaten you down for so long that you feel you are worthless.

That is so wrong. You are a loving mother of 5, wow that has to be tough. You are surely a strong woman. You need to get that in your head dear. NO MAN IS WORTH THIS. PERIOD.

The other posters are right. You really need to convince him that you don't care about the undies anymore. Convince him you let it go and it's over. I don't think there is anything gained by testing anyway. Even if they tested positive he would deny, and if somehow they test negative then he would throw it in your face forever. You lose either way. It's not enough proof. You need more.

You lose either way. It's not enough proof. You need more.

Yes, I agree.

This is my 50th post, what gets unlocked?

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson

My sister in this state and BIL don't want to know anything about this, the pastors wife got back to me and said that its beyond her and can't help me, I'm so sick.
I honestly just wish I were dead. I'm NOT strong, I have NO money I can't take care of myself and my kids. I'm just going to end up on the f-ing street and my husband will get the kids, the house, and live a great life. I feel victimized all over again.
I know that some say leave the underwear alone. He wants to have them tested, if I don't he will so I'm just humoring him. I feel sick. I'm light headed. I just hate life right now.

He isn't physically abusing me or the kids. I just wanted to make that clear to everyone, however I know that emotional abuse is bad too.

I'm NOT strong,

I have NO money

I can't take care of myself
and my kids.

Please please call a shelter and talk to someone there. You are smart. You will find a way. They will help you form an exit plan for when you ARE ready to leave and not before. They can give you shelter and help you get counseling (This is a MUST!!! I had PTSD from my abusive ex. The counseling helped me a lot!)

I know you are scared. One step at a time here. No one is going to make you leave before you are ready. Right now it seems your husband holds all the cards. What do you do when he is at work? You should have some time there to start taking care of yourself and educating yourself on your rights and how to be safe. You are not safe right now. Even though you are appeasing him, it does not sound like he is terribly stable and who knows what may set him off?

[This message edited by NaiveAgain at 10:52 AM, May 18th (Friday)]

I know what you're thinking. getting out is way easier said than done. You have 5 kids depending on you to make sure they are provided for. Child support is great,but you have to file,get a court date,go to court,and then actually getting the child support can be difficult. In the meantime,you still have to feed your kids.

I DO understand. I just wanted you to know you're not alone. I get where you're coming from. I felt trapped too,in the beginning. My FWS was abusive during the first few years of marriage and was a bully for many years. he still is sometimes.

I dont have any advice for you at the moment. Just understanding.

((((itsovernow))))

[This message edited by confused615 at 11:15 AM, May 18th (Friday)]

I felt like I had to shut off after the phone call with the lab and a phone call I had with my husband at lunch time. He was yelling so loud that even with the phone turned all the way down, my daughter was stirring around. They were trying to sleep and I was trying to sleep too. I just feel like I needed to shut down for a while. My husband was screaming at me about not finding a lab to test his nasty underwear already. He was saying it had already been 5 days and I haven't done anything. He knew at 11 somthing when I called him I had found a place, had the paper work sent to my computer, but I have to print out the forms and send them back with the dirty nasty underwear. I felt very humiliated about the guy laughing. He was probably just laughing because it looks so bad for my husband right now.
I also called someone earlier in the week that didn't return my call. I feel sick over this.
I kept jerking awake while I was trying to sleep and all I could see in my head is all that garbage that I've been dealing with for the week. My husband really sees himself as the victim here.

Even IF and a big IF he was telling the truth, he has to be more sensitive about how this looks to me. He keeps saying that I just want a way out of my marriage. I told him I know where the door is if that is what I wanted. No one wants to go through this for fun.

Even if he hadn't been unfaithful he sounds like a child of man you'd be better of without in the long run.

((itsovernow))

You ARE strong. Use your strength. Take as much strength from us as you can and find your voice.

How dare he treat you like your feeling have no value.

[This message edited by Twitchy at 2:20 PM, May 18th (Friday)]

Are these labs sure that they can test them and get a definitive result after they were washed? It would be a shame to spend $300 for an inconclusive result.

"It's hard to be in love when you can't tell lies!

A suggestion ... skip the damn underwear testing. Suggest that he take a polygraph.

See what he says. I'd be interested in hearing it.

One thing is for certain, a loving husband would be trying to comfort you- even if he was innocent. He would see you hurting and while there might be anger there, there would be concern too.

It's been washed twice, I would guess testing will be inconclusive. Best option would be a keylogger and/or VAR. Though the threat of polygraph seems to get a parking lot confession- but the actual polygraph results usually cause a WS to gaslight and harp on unreliability.

I am so sorry he's not being a loving husband even if he is being faithful. Everyone deserves to be treated with love by their spouse. Don't accept that you're any different.

after two washings, doubt test results would be accurate and agree waste of $. he knows this

also agree on polygraph . what do you think he'd say to that instead??

(((hugs!!!)))

He has had his moment in the last couple of days in which he acknoweledged its hard for me too, but then he snaps right back to himself and how this is affecting him.
I have been standing up for myself a lot more and pointing out when he insults me and telling him its NOT alright. Sometimes he will say he's sorry(maybe 2 times) and other times he will say that its my "new internet lingo".
I really don't know what to think.
Yes, they've been washed twice, however whatever is in them is still in them. He claims they haven't changed since the first time he saw them like that. As far as I know they were only washed 1 time, but not dried.
Who knows what the truth is.

Why are you putting up with this? Do you not have access to any funds? Are you afraid of him? I can almost guarantee that if you stand up for yourself, draw your line in the sand, and ask him point blank if wants to remain married and a father to his kids, he'll back down. He's being a bully, a scary one.

Hi, I have complete access to the bank accounts, my name is on them, however I only use grocery money or gas money. I never take it for anything else. He has a way of making me feel guilty if I use too much even for groceries. I try to tell him I cannot feed a family of 7 on less then 100 bucks a week. Its hard because when I buy diapers or other things, it skyrockets. I let him go and get the diapers so he knows how much they are. He gets them, but it seems that when I need other things like wipes or cream for them he fusses about the price. Its like he makes me reluctant to ask for what I need for the kids and for myself, I don't bother. He says, once the money is gone, its gone.
I'm not physically scared of him anymore. I am scared of what he may do in a divorce situation, though. I'm terrified to even start something like that.
A lot of me doesn't want to be without him because so much of me has been invested with him for over half my life.
I asked him if he wants to be married to me. He said he doesn't want a divorce, he seemed very sincere about that. I think he loves me but I think we are BOTH co-dependant on eachother because its been so long. Especailly me being co-dependant on him.
I will be completely honest. Even with everything over the past 18 years. I'm scared to death to be without him. I don't even know if its love or just something else. I admit, I need help and I need a private counselor that may be able to do marriage counseling too if I stay here and even if I choose to leave. I think that this coming week, my goal will be to find a nice counselor for myself. I have a dr. that prescribes, but thats all he does.
And to answer what you said about him being a bully, I do agree that he talks over me and it seems like he verbally beats me into a corner so that I'm quiet.

[This message edited by itsovernow at 11:14 AM, May 19th (Saturday)]

Your story is very sad. Somehow, somewhere, you have got to get your self esteem back.

I used to have a rockin' self esteem before I met him and while we were dating. I felt pretty, I felt the world was before my feet and I could master it. I had dreams. I can sing, I used to ice skate, I could write poetry. I really felt I could do anything. In some ways that feeling is still there. I've taken up hobbies like working with polymer clay. I have a store on Etsy, but have NEVER put anything in it since I'm not confident enough. I was 16 when I married so I didn't finish highschool traditionally, but I did do it! I was almost 20 but I did it. I also took out student loans and went to Thomas Edison State College(its an online college for adult learners 21 and up)
I started as a journalism major, went to psychology, and am a social science history major with 1 math class to go. However, its been years, my financial aid has run out and I owe a fortune.
Oh gosh, he's home from work, time to clear history and go.

I will also look into private counseling for myself and possibly marriage counseling too even if it ends up just being for the kids. We need to learn how to get along even if we do get a divorce.

Against many members advice, I'm sending the underwear to be tested. This is at my husbands insistance.

Its been a hard weekend. A lot of on and offs. He has tried to hug me alot, which sometimes I let him and sometimes I didn't, he had his moments that he was understanding and other moments that he was a total twit telling me that I just want every women's dream, to get a divorce and have the man pay forever.
Yep, thats it, I'm after his millions!! Its not laughable but if I don't laugh sometimes I will just cry. I just don't get why he thinks I want this. I don't know what his motives are.

I don't know what his motives are.

But, I can tell you this much, if he has cheated in the past, and he treats you the way you say he does, I believe I would be figuring out a way to leave his ass.

Sort of like your husband is acting.

I'm so GLAD that you recognize your talents and strengths. Use them.

I would take that Discover card and charge my last college class. You only have one to go. DO IT! That will help to empower you although I doubt your husband wants you to have your degree. He can't control you that way.

I wish the best for you. Please keep us posted!!

"I'm just a paycheck to you" "You just want my money, you're not attracted to me, me, me!!!"

I had to make sure that I didn't write this. He says that to me all the time. It made me feel so low, like I was just a dependent worm. I have to remind him that WE have 5 kids together that he is the one that doesn't want me to work. When I have told him I would work in the evening, he tells me there is no point in being married, then. I don't get it.

I took them to a battered woman's shelter. We stayed there for almost a month. We could have stayed longer, but my family helped us out.

While we were in the shelter I and my children got free counseling to deal with what we'd been through and what we were going through. It was the first time I realized that I was actually a battered woman. I'd fought against that title for so very long but I finally saw that it truly WAS me. I also saw that domestic violence and emotional abuse cross ALL socio-economic boundaries. There were society women in the shelter with me as well as poor women and everything in between. We ranged in age from 17 - 70. All with varying levels of physical and psychological damage.

A shelter will help you with whatever you need. Food, clothing, a job, a place to live, social services, whatever. They will help you find a way to support your children. The BEST thing for me? The location was secret. There was no way for my Ex to find us and make me pay for running away. He was never able to abuse me or intimidate me again.

It's been 10 years. I and my kids are still dealing with the damage of all the years of psychological torture he put me/us through. You may think you are protecting your kids from him and you may think that since he isn't directly abusing them that he isn't hurting them. You are wrong. Kids see, hear, sense and SMELL the poison his is emitting. They will pay the price.

Please, please look into your local shelter. You can call them and ask them any question you want about their services and what they can do to help you. Please take this step. You will never regret it. I know I don't.

(((((HUGS))))) to you.

D-day #1 Jan 31 2007
D-Day #2 March 25 2007
Roll on Roll on Roller Coaster
We're one day older and one step closer
Roll on there's mountains to climb
Roll on we're on borrowed time
-Kid Rock

Working on Re

"You just want my money, you're not attracted to me, me, me!!!"

Here is the basic question(s), and think hard before you answer them.
Are you afraid of him? Of his reactions? Do you change who you are because of the reaction he may have? Is there some things you just. don't. say. because you know what the results will be? Are you allowed to be a grown up? Are you allowed to be yourself? Do you want to live like this forever?

[This message edited by NaiveAgain at 8:15 PM, May 24th (Thursday)]

Are you afraid of him? Of his reactions? Do you change who you are because of the reaction he may have? Is there some things you just. don't. say. because you know what the results will be? Are you allowed to be a grown up? Are you allowed to be yourself? Do you want to live like this forever?

No, I'm not afraid of him physically.
Yes, I have changed who I am because of his reactions. I've been invited to hang out with one of my son's friends moms, but I haven't gone because I know he won't sit with the kids.
Are there things I just don't say? Probably, but I tend to fight with words. I let him know how I feel and how this makes me feel.
I'm not who I was when I married him, but 1. I wasn't a grown up when I got married, I was 16 and 2. My personality changed, but is it because of him or because I am older and would have changed anyway?
As a 15/16 year old kid I was always easy going, I had tons of friends so that was never a problem like it is now. I was looked up to by other kids my age, I was copied(A true sign of admiration in a teens world) I could go on.
As an adult I feel that I'm at the bottom of the totem pole. I have no friends, I don't feel special, I'm not proud of who I am a lot of the time. I think that I've been "hobbled". I don't know who I am anymore.
Do I want to live like this forever? I don't know any other way to live.

I'm having a horrible day. I'm crying I'm not having a strong day.

My personality changed, but is it because of him or because I am older and would have changed anyway?

Honey, a change from this -

As a 15/16 year old kid I was always easy going, I had tons of friends so that was never a problem like it is now. I was looked up to by other kids my age, I was copied(A true sign of admiration in a teens world) I could go on.

To this -

As an adult I feel that I'm at the bottom of the totem pole. I have no friends, I don't feel special, I'm not proud of who I am a lot of the time. I think that I've been "hobbled". I don't know who I am anymore.

(((((itsovernow)))))

Access the bank accounts. Find out how much money has been coming in and going out. It might be that the bills are soaking up most everything. It might be that he's been spending/saving money that you don't know about.

If there's money to spend, use some on yourself and the kids. YOU decide whether you do that. You might be worried about his reaction and whatnot, but you're still the one making your choices.

When the baby is old enough for you to feel comfortable, get a job outside the home. Even if it just pays for daycare. You need to be around more people. That's the thing coming out more than anything - you're isolated, like too many sahms become. Only you can change that for yourself, hon.

I did take a look at the photos and IMHO the material and color is about right for red construction chalk, just FYI.

TR

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting

He constantly tells me he didn't say something that I know he said 5 minutes before. I'll say something about the past when he used to hit me or other things and he'll tell me it never happened.
One time when I was about 17, we were arguing and I wanted to run away. It was freezing out and I ran outside and hid under the porch. He came by and he found me after calling for me. When he found me he kicked me with his black steel toed boots(I'll never forget those) and told me I could stay under there like the "troll I was". This was really traumatic to me, but he denies it. He was ultra abusive back then. It was about the same time and he said that he was having some friends over and that he wanted me to go to the closet and stay in there while they were over. They never came over, thankfully. He said that never happened. He threw a religious candle at me and it broke and cut my arm, (age 18) He kicked me in the right side in the front yard by the mail box. My mom called the police and he went to jail, but I denied the charges so he could get out(age 18) Stupid me. I had at least one broken rib because it wiggled and was painful for a while. He denies that. He would back hand me, kicked me and threw me around while I was pregnant at 18. I will never forget the humiliation of being kicked in the rear end and falling over when I was like 7 months pregnant. He then threw the laundry basket on top of me. I think the most disturbing of all the incidents(too many to even say) was when I was 17. We moved to Florida for a short time and he used to get angry at me if he thought I was looking at someone. I hated going to the beach because no matter where I looked, there was people. I never was looking at anyone. He argued with me all the time. One night, Halloween '94 he took the shot gun and pointed it at my head. I was screaming and scared to death. He kept saying he was going to kill me that was it. I don't remember if the gun was loaded or not but I thought I was dead. He denies this
!! That hurts so bad that he doesn't remember this or that he remembers it but denies it.

I have since then doubled my age. I'm 34 now. I honestly can assure you he hasn't hit me in about 9-10 years. However, looking back, I think I'm traumatized. He says that even if this stuff happened, it was so long ago it doesn't matter. I disagree because I was with him during some of my formative years. I was still a child. This was child abuse. I really am traumatized. The more I talk about it and think about it, I realize that I may need to talk with someone, not just about marriage, but about the stuff that has gone on a lifetime ago.

Yes, you should talk to someone. He is dangerous.

One night, Halloween '94 he took the shot gun and pointed it at my head.

If I recall, that's a 3-year prison sentence in FL if convicted.

I believe that he psychologically abuses me, lies to me, and plays head games with me. Maybe its because no one can see those things. It also seems to have more of an affect on me then the physical abuse had.

I should have kept running that night. I ran out the door after that and down the street, and he got scared and started being apologetic, only to ask me where I was running to(a guys house is what he was thinking). I never knew anyone, he made sure of that.

Goodness sweetie you really are unearthing a lot of horrible stuff. It sounds like you have been concealing it inside you for a long time.

My XH used to do abusive things (though not to the extent you went through), and it was like he suffered amnesia. Just because he won't or can't admit it doesn't mean it didn't happen OR won't happen again.

Please get some help. You and your kiddos are worth it. You just might find the rest of your life can be happy and fulfilling in ways you never knew!

I believe that he psychologically abuses me, lies to me, and plays head games with me. Maybe its because no one can see those things. It also seems to have more of an affect on me then the physical abuse had.

After what you have been through it's probably hard to sort out what is personality and what is abuse, KWIM?

Have you ever read this? (please excuse the site name)- http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/manipulator/emotional_abuse.shtml

My WS at the time was not physically abusive but my IC at the time really made me look back at how our relationship started and what it was like and I too started to admit to things and started to uncover some pretty bad things that I had closed down inside my head, treatment I wanted to forget about but kept is so far under that it took awhile to get it to surface. My IC at the time probably thought I was crazy as I would usually email him 2 or 3 days after an app't, when I was able to admit or think about some subject we had talked about and I would write and write and write...it was like so cathartic to just spew it all out...he would respond back with 1 or 2 sentences but it was a great way to just unleash things I needed to get out.

I think IC for you would be great, I had to face these things to be able to move on with my life and I think you need someone to help you along also. But be careful...your WS sounds like the type to not want you to get educated. He likes you to feel "less then" and have no friends. Then no one can take you away from him. Typical abuser mentality.

Something else thought about the stain may be the caulk/chalk or whatever... He could have pulled his underwear down for a blow job, my ex never wanted anything on him...he took underwear, pants, & shirt off just for a BJ....,so your ex maybe right its not lipstick but it doesn't meant a woman didn't suck his cock....

Take care.

He is psychologically unstable and DANGEROUS to you AND your kids! He will not change and will only get worse with time.

PLEASE, take the advice here and get to a secure women's shelter. I don't want to read about you in the news!

a question...how does his father treat his mother?

[This message edited by cuckhold at 3:46 PM, May 25th (Friday)]

He's different now. Its been so long since that incident and so long since he hit me.

he doesn't have to...he's already scared you into submission with physical threats and then moved on to the ever-effective emotional abuse to make sure you know your place and that you are lucky to have someone like him who doesn't hit you anymore. plus it's harder to get arrested for words than blows.

(((itsovernow))))

my heart breaks for you. this isn't living and this isn't who you are.

[This message edited by stretch13 at 3:49 PM, May 25th (Friday)]

Why are you with him? Just because you don't know how to leave?

This was child abuse. I really am traumatized. The more I talk about it and think about it, I realize that I may need to talk with someone, not just about marriage, but about the stuff that has gone on a lifetime ago.

Abuse does not have to be physical to be abuse. Emotional/verbal/sexual/psychological abuse is all very damaging.

That is why you do need help. The shelter will help you find yourself again and get back on your feet. A good IC will help you find your strength and remember who you really are down deep. That amazing girl that everyone looked up to is still in there. She is just covered in a pile of sh*t that her husband has piled on her. Once you start digging and get rid of that, your light will shine again.

You are not too old. I was 40 when I left my abuser. Remember leaving is the most dangerous time and do not try to do that on your own.

While you stay, keep educating yourself and finding small ways to help yourself, by putting little bits of money away, (I would say get a job but I doubt he would let you, or if you did, he would sabotage it. Mine did. He got me fired by messing with my boss's computers.)

Hang in there. We are here for you. There is a lot of support out here if you know where to look. There are even scholarships to help abuse survivors go back to school to get a degree.

You are a beautiful soul with gifts to give. Right now, let others help you so you can find those gifts!

[This message edited by NaiveAgain at 5:03 PM, May 25th (Friday)]

My WS at the time was not physically abusive but my IC at the time really made me look back at how our relationship started and what it was like and I too started to admit to things and started to uncover some pretty bad things that I had closed down inside my head, treatment I wanted to forget about but kept is so far under that it took awhile to get it to surface. My IC at the time probably thought I was crazy as I would usually email him 2 or 3 days after an app't, when I was able to admit or think about some subject we had talked about and I would write and write and write...it was like so cathartic to just spew it all out...he would respond back with 1 or 2 sentences but it was a great way to just unleash things I needed to get out.

IDKAM, I don't think he will let me work outside the home. I have thought about it before and he always says that he wants me to stay with the babies, but then he rubs it in my face that he "supports" me. It makes me feel like garbage when he says this. I contribute too! He just doesn't see being a SAHM as a contribution even if he says he does to everyone else.
The other poster is right, he probably won't encourage me to do this.

CH, its true, he can't abuse me physically so he does it emotionally. He makes me feel like I'm crazy. If I question him on anything he tells me to "get some help".

Naive, I do want to leave in reality. I wish that I could, and yes, to answer another poster, not knowing how to leave is the main problem. This is all I've known. I don't even know where to start. I don't have family that cares or could help in real life, except for my sister in Florida, but she's just starting again too. As much as I want to pack up pictures, clothes, toys and just go to Florida and start life again, I can't take the kids out of state, I'm pretty sure that would be against the law and he would have them brought back to CT. My sister told me about place by her that has four bdrm condos. They looked so nice when I viewed them online. They were fresh and clean just like new hope and a new life. (Sigh) I can dream I guess.

C-PTSD makes sense too. I was also raised in an abusive home. My mom had enough love for me to cover my dads emotional abuse to me. He wouldn't talk to me for months at a time at age 6! He used to beat me with a belt, he raped my sister for 7 years from age 13-19. My mom said she didn't know, maybe she didn't want to see. Home, no matter where its been, has NEVER ever been safe and comforting.
I will talk to a counselor.

"It's hard to be in love when you can't tell lies!

So I did not need to take advantage of the programs that most women's shelters offer, which is helping you from the ground up. They deal with your type of situation ALL THE TIME. They understand that if a woman has been abused and made to feel helpless (learned helplessness, which is also a product of sustained abuse), then she will not know that she can survive on her own.

They can help you learn how to do all that, and it will take time, but that is okay.

Just a little bit at a time, at a pace you can deal with. You are doing so well. You have made a lot of progress since you first started this thread!

Do not let your husband come to your counseling sessions. If you do, do it only once or twice so the counselor can see what you are dealing with. And important, interview your counselor first! They are not all the same. Make sure you get one that understands abuse and personality disorders and PTSD. There are many, many good counselors out there, but like all professions, there are a few that are inadequate. You will know if yours is a good counselor because you will feel validated and believed. A good counselor will NOT judge you, at all. A good counselor can truly be a lifesaver. If you do not like or feel comfortable with the one you have, find a new one. And don't be afraid to ask your counselor any questions you need to ask, including how they are going to treat you, what type of treatment they will be using, and whether or not they are familiar with the types of issues you are dealing with. Some counselors specialize in certain things.

I'm still waiting on the forensics test. They told me 2 weeks. It arrived on Saturday, according to delivery confirmation.

This weekend was horrible. I tried to make it good for the kids. I cleaned off the patio and my husband grilled hot dogs for the kids and himself. I didn't eat of course. I feel fat and ugly right now so I had a salad wrap. It was good, but I'm seriously watching what I eat, not that I really feel like eating anyway.
I sat outside on a blanket in the yard for a while with the baby. I just moped around. My oldest son knows because he heard us arguing. He's 16. I had to explain it to him in the gentlest way possible. He started telling me that it was from the house or my lipstick or something. I don't wear lipstick, I don't own it. I wear lipgloss and already did a test trying to duplicate the stain and my tinted lipgloss came almost all the way off in the wash after just one wash. When I showed my son the pictures, he started crying because he could see what I saw. He can't even look at his dad. I feel so bad and so embarrassed right now.

When I showed my son the pictures, he started crying because he could see what I saw

I am sorry you are feeling the way you are, but you nailed it, sweetie. You are co-dependent. (((itsovernow)))

When the surgeons separate conjoined twins they have to proceed so carefully because its such an intricate surgery. One wrong move and the other will die, however if they stay together, their quality of lives will be less then ideal.

This is how I feel.

Even if he's "killing" me emotionally, spiritually, and mentally, to sever myself from him seems so painful, its like I'd rather live in the pain then to live without him even though he's a poison to me.

So how do I change that. Its literally a lifetime of co-dependency. Its so ingrained in my very being, our lives are intertwined so tightly.

yes, they are. you are bound by attachments...that's how we all start down this recovery, bound to unhealthy patterns by our attachments.

i thought about it like this and it helped. my XH and I were bound together by a million threads...like ropes of human hair. if i pulled on a whole rope all at once, it wouldn't break, it just tried to break my head instead (scalp.)

so i just started detaching and detangling one little hair at a time, eventually i broke broke free. one hair here (i won't let you talk to me that way), one hair there (you must meet my minimum conditions and treat me with dignity), a patch of hair here (thanks, IC, yes i AM worth something), a patch there (i am an interesting, strong person and he better start to appreciate it), to one last yank on a few remaining....(this HURTS, but i'm outa here...ouch!!! ahhhh, there we go).

don't comb through it all. just try to break a few (don't make that call. go for a walk. don't respond to his negativity, skip doing that nice thing for him. walk away instead of begging)...hair by hair, you detach. you keep a good strong hold, even as you slowly weaken the bond. pretty soon you'll see that he doesn't control all of this, and eventually, maybe you'll decide to get out the scissors and cut the whole damn thing free early. but no need to think that far ahead...one little hair at a time.

I highly recommend the book, "Love Without Hurt" by Steve Stonsky. You and your husband can both read it. It goes over codependency, and various forms of abuse, as well as gives you tips on how to deal. The best part is a boot camp section for the abuser that is pretty effective at creating change.

Good luck.

If you do, do it only once or twice so the counselor can see what you are dealing with. And important, interview your counselor first! They are not all the same. Make sure you get one that understands abuse and personality disorders and PTSD.

Very key. I can sum my my experience in having my fWH go to counseling with me to see my IC (one time, at my IC's request) Next session: my IC looks at me and says "so, do you think he's a sociopath or just highly narcissistic?"....

Breaking attachments is hard. so, there's a great book by melody beattie called Make Miracles in 40 days that might be helpful for you. Also, another one of her books, The New Codependency, is a great starting point for anyone facing the challenges you're under right now.

This is just such a "hard to function day". :( Baby 1 brought me his shoes, baby 2 is in her bumbo seat. I need to get out of this funk for them, but how? I wish I could find the motivation and happiness to leave this couch and leave the pain for a while. I love the babies so much and want to make them happy but its hard to give something I don't have.

i know... ...i SO remember those days. i remember drifting in and out of reality almost while dd (10 months old then) played with something for 3 minutes...then i'd find something else for 3 minutes. i hung on for naps because the i could stare and cry without doing it in front of her.

i have a happy, healthy dd3. you do what you can. you lay on the floor and if they distract for 30 seconds, that's 30 seconds you didn't spend thinking about all this crap. keep your expectations low and give them what you do have...don't worry about what you think you don't have. they are little, they need your love, they need you nearby, you WISH you could give them all the "happy mommy" they deserve...but this A thing makes us wish a lot of things, doesn't it?

it will be ok. take it easy on you. survive. keep them alive. everything else is heroic. hell showing up is heroic.

((((itsovernow))))

I tend to go with the insane part.

[This message edited by itsovernow at 11:17 AM, May 29th (Tuesday)]

Its a hard thread to write, trust me. I'm embarrassed, I'm scared, sickened, alone, and I could go on.

The more I write, though, the more I know that I need help. Looking for a counselor is next on my list, not for him and I, but for me.

I'm not ready for lawyers, social workers, court dates, fights, custody battles over 5 kids, not being able to feed myself, the kids, or have a place to live. Even my van(which I really need) is 370 a month. I can't even drive all my kids around at the same time without it, but I don't have 370 a month to continue the payment.

you aren't ready. thank goodness you don't have to do all of that right this second. ((((ion)))) you are here gathering strength to take whatever that next step is. today it was breaking down and typing "the more i type the more i know i need help" followed by the realization that you could really use some IC.

it's a long way up to the light, but every little rung you climb makes you stronger. there are "landings" along the way where you can stop and catch your breath. you can freeze on the ladder sometimes, terrified, then start moving again. even if you slip down a rung or two (or three), you can hold on and continue that climb, bumps, bruises and all.

we are here and we will help you. you don't need to already have all the strength it will take to get through this whole thing. you need enough to post here...then you find a little more...then you get some IC...and find a little more...like breadcrumbs. that's what having great support does - you don't have to think of every little thing, possibility, consequence, because we can remind you, guide you alongside your real professionals.

don't worry about that big stuff. take care of today and those tomorrows will develop on their own. ok...try not to spend too much time worrying about the big stuff...i know you will worry some.

it's gonna be ok. hard to believe but just what you need to hear. you can do this.

[This message edited by stretch13 at 12:26 PM, May 29th (Tuesday)]

NONE OF THIS IS YOUR FAULT!!!!!!!!! NONE!!!

You can find your strength, I know you can. There are so many wise people here who can help show you the way.

And I do understand how hard it is to leave and I also understand how you can still love him and feel you need him. That is normal.

You do what you can, and then you rest. Then you do a little bit more, then you rest again. What you wrote about the social workers and lawyers and court battles....ugh! No one is ever ready for that stuff! It is just one day at a time, and most processes move slowly.

Just again, be careful while you are educating yourself and gathering your strength. Don't let him know. I am sure it took me over a year to leave while I worked on figuring out how I was going to support myself and my 4 kids.

Meantime, extend your support circle. Find a way to make friends IRL. Talk to an advocate at a woman's shelter. Get a counselor. None of these things are going to change your life quickly, but they will just add a little extra support and help you be strong when you don't feel strong and you need it.

I have been apart from my WS/STBX for 2 months now. Never thought I could do it!

I was abused starting 2 weeks b4 I was M.

Big hugs to you. You CAN do this!

I went outside, its really hot here today.

And then looked down to read your From: and saw this.

From: hell

(((itsovernow)))

I have been reading this thread and my heart goes out to you.

I worked at a women's shelter for years, and one thing that we had available was both individual counseling and support groups for women who were not in shelter. During those groups, we had groups running for the children, staffed by children's specialists, whose job wasn't necessarily to get the kids talking but to give mother's peace of mind, knowing the kids were safe and close by while they were in group. Sometimes a staff member or volunteer would be available to watch little ones while moms when to individual counseling or (for those living with us) out of the shelter for appointments, job hunting, etc. I can't speak for shelters around the world or the country, but all of our services were free, and they still are. People working in the field know that women don't always have access to money. you don't need to be physically abused to qualify- the emotional abuse you're dealing with is more than enough! Frankly, I have come to the point of believing that a spouse having an affair, whether physical or "only" emotional, is abusive itself.

There is no way that this is your fault, not even the fact that childbirth changed your body. Here's a different take on that. I am a very small woman, diabetic, and had a typical diabetic mother's baby- huge. She walked out on her own and demanded a drink and smoke (I knew I was in trouble then, but that's another story). The baby blew my skin out plenty, but, as they say in infomercials- but wait, there's more! I was toxemic, and gaining a pound or more each night. I cleared 200 pounds and then some before The Moose Baby finally arrived. When I was thin, my skin hung like the criss-crossed curtains my mother always favored, and my stretch marks had blown-out, varicose veins in them. All over my body (I'm really a very beautiful woman if you like stripes!). But you know what? I am proud of the changes in my body. They are proof of the most important thing I did in my life, and could ever do: I brought a baby into this world. Could you, would you consider this point of view about yourself? The weight, the tum, the marks- they are all service stripes that you earned doing the most important job in the world- giving life.

Please, please think of your beautiful children and ask- is this the kind of man I want my sons to grow up to be? is this the kind of man I want my daughter to marry? Those are the likely outcomes when kids grow up around abuse.

And you dohave skills. You have been raising children, which makes you much more qualified to work in daycare than the high school girls they often hire. And I'll bet you can clean like nobody's business- I see cleaning jobs even in my dinky small town paper. You can cook- schools, camps, nursing homes, assisted living places always need kitchen assistance. You probably have other skills you don't recognize. Some IC's will help you recognize your abilities and interests and help you build on them.

Please, please don't give up, and please keep posting.

God bless you,

Junco

You can ask your doctor for a referral to IC. Say it's urgent, you're dealing with abuse and need help.

Those are two things you can do for yourself today.

Good luck.

"if you leave, what are you going to do for finances?"
This is what scares me.

and WH says, "mission accomplished!" he's trying to scare you. he's trying to make you feel worthless and as though you aren't strong enough or good enough to live life without him. he wants you to believe that you are so pathetic like he has the corner on survival instincts and skills. he's never seen a mother when her babies are threatened!!!! he thinks we are weak.

he controls you with fear. he knows what worries you and pushes that button.

wouldn't you be scared about finances anyway, if he hadn't said this? hell yeah - aren't we all at this point? his statement is just him being captain obvious while pushing you down. lots of people have gotten out and found out just how much stronger a person they are than the one who has been making them feel weak all these years. they find out how people should be treated and lose total respect for their former "leader."

i'd be willing to bet that the "voice" of your fear, the one in your head that feeds you doubts and negativity, repeats the same negativity he spouts, the same phrases, words...you might even hear his voice in your fear! you are allowing him to beat you down even when he's not around! he's trained you to do that.

the negative statements are all the things you've heard about yourself, what he's told you, your mother, your father, every bully in your life...but it's not YOU! what do they know? hell, you don't even know yet how awesome you really are.

you are good enough. you are strong enough. weaker people have been where you are and survived...even thrived. if they can you can too! and don't let someone else with selfish motives make you think otherwise. all the negativity that you think is you being realistic is just the voice of fear railing against change...the voice of WH too.

keep on going ((((ion)))))

ETA: fixed lots of meaningful typos... i'm proofing faster than i can read.

[This message edited by stretch13 at 9:55 AM, May 30th (Wednesday)]

When he is always saying I should have just had trust in him and he actually asked me last night, "if you leave, what are you going to do for finances?"

I found a local APRN that does counseling. I'm hoping that switching from a dr to aprn will take care of the medication issue and counseling issues. I haven't called yet, just found her.
It seems that each step is hard. Maybe I'm scared of the what ifs. That seems to be an on-going problem with me. Whats ifs, does she take my insurance, will she even care about my problems, will she switch my medication, all these things keep going through my mind.

[This message edited by itsovernow at 12:35 PM, May 30th (Wednesday)]

Take this one step at a time. First focus on getting the phone number - check - next make a list of important questions, what time, where located, what insurance, philosophy, etc. - check - next focus on placing the call - check - next focus on going to the appointment.

One step at a time. Prepare, plan and be in control.

Whats ifs, does she take my insurance, will she even care about my problems, will she switch my medication, all these things keep going through my mind.

The fear is immobilizing you. Once you start taking small steps, you will find that you are getting stronger and stronger and it isn't quite as scary as you thought it was. And don't forget, we are all here helping you with every step!

"if you leave, what are you going to do for finances?"

I just estimated child support for you. If your husband makes $40,000 a year he will have to pay you roughly $1326 a month and pay for health insurance for the children.

The state will not take your children away from you. Especially after you relate all of your husband's behavior to a lawyer. Especially with a past assault charge on him.

Now, you will probably have to get a job of some sort, but that can be worked out, believe it or not.

I can tell you a little about me. My first husband hit me, so I left him. We had been together 11 years. I was beyond crushed, didn't get enough counseling, and wound up pregnant with my current husband's child roughly 10 months later.

My (current) husband was always selfish and controlling, but he got worse and worse over time until just before Dday he was having 2 affairs, and drinking and abusing prescription drugs. he never helped with the kids.

I made a lot of bad choices, partly due to my parents just being WEIRD but mostly because I have manic-depression and I needed many years of medication and intense therapy to deal with that.

I would say that on Dday I was tremendously codependent. I actually wanted to run back to my first husband, how awful is that? I wanted to be saved.

What I learned is that you have to be your own hero.

My husband threatened to take my children away from me. The main OW (the 20 year LTA chick) was a two-faced person. I was fortunate enough to have hired her former nanny, who clued me into some of her dark side behavior once she knew we weren't "friends" anymore (and why)

I was pregnant on Dday, and my child was born disabled. I think one of the most frightening things I've ever heard in my life ... I asked nanny if she thought OW would hurt my daughter (OW always wanted a girl but has 3 sons) and nanny replied "It's just not that hard to make the death of a disabled baby look like an accident."

The stakes in keeping OW away from my children were high. She had pulled a knife on me about a year and a half before Dday, so I agreed with nanny's assessement that she was batshit crazy. Nanny also said she'd been beaten by OW, that OW hit her kids and that when my oldest DS had been to OW's house for an emergency sleepover when a younger child was hospitalized OW had locked my DS in a dark room to scream all night to teach him not to be afraid of the dark.

So, just for bonus points I was being abused by both my fWH and his AP.

I would say, in general, that it's largely useless to try to get an abuser to stop. In my case, it was critical, because fWH was trying to harm the children physically even in my presence. Eventually, my counselor called Child Services. I had to deal witht them too, mostly by making it clear that I was 100% prepared to leave and take the kids. BTW -- my husband did NOT hit our child -- I had stopped him that time too -- but he did hold him down and deliberately scare him. It was enough for us to get investigated. Emotional abuse is serious.

Counseling was critical to me. My fWH goes to counseling too. Some resources that helped me were narcissimcured.com (narcissism is not cureable, but you CAN learn techniques to deal with narcissists effectively) co-dependent no more (book by Melody beattie), lovefraud.com, The Verbally Abusive Man (book) and Necessary Endings (book by Henry Cloud). I also got support from my priest (who urged me to leave) and by being honest with some close friends and my family.

I did not expect to stay married -- what I expected was to establish some strong boundaries so that my children would be safe when having visitation with fWH.

It's baby steps. But you need free resources and that's why we are all urging you to contact a women's shelter.

You can call 211 to get information on finding a shelter near you. The 24 hour state domestic violence hotline is 888-774-2900

From the National Domestic Violence Hotline's website:
Am I Being Abused?
How is your relationship?Does your partner:
Embarrass you with put-downs?
Look at you or act in ways that scare you?
Control what you do, who you see or talk to or where you go?
Stop you from seeing your friends or family members?
Take your money or Social Security check, make you ask for money or refuse to give you money?
Make all of the decisions?
Tell you that you’re a bad parent or threaten to take away or hurt your children?
Prevent you from working or attending school?
Act like the abuse is no big deal, it’s your fault, or even deny doing it?
Destroy your property or threaten to kill your pets?
Intimidate you with guns, knives or other weapons?
Shove you, slap you, choke you, or hit you?
Force you to try and drop charges?
Threaten to commit suicide?
Threaten to kill you?
If you answered ‘yes’ to even one of these questions,
you may be in an abusive relationship.
For support and more information please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-SAFE (7233) or at TTY 1-800-787-3224.

Honestly, it was learning that I was having a girl the 4th time that changed everything for me and "woke me up" so to speak. I knew that I did not want my daughter to allow herself to be treated the way my husband was treating me. I discovered the evidence of the affair 12 days after I found out I was pregnant with a girl. I don't want my sons to act like that either.

And of course, her disabiliy made it even more urgent to me that I "break the cycle" so to speak.

You need help. It can't be done alone. It's just too hard.

Not everyone will go for help. I used to correspond with a woman who was being abused on a due date club board for pregnant women about 6 years ago when I was pregnant with my second. A lot of people did what we've done here. Gave her resources. Urged her to get help. She chose not to. Her husband killed her and the (unborn) baby.

Abusive people are unpredictable. The escalate when you resist, which is why you need help in doing it a safe way. But it's not going to magically go away.

let's go back in time:

what if the man i marry turns out to be an abuser?

what if the man i marry turns out to be a cheater?

what if one day i will come to feel small and worthless in my M?

what if one day i feel too weak to expect any better?

did you ask yourself those questions before you married your WH? and if you had? if you wanted to M, you probably would have answered something like, "i don't know. how can i know? i'll deal with that when or if it happens."

now try on some of these:

what if my WH keeps abusing me and cheating?
what if i look back at the end of my life with regret at giving this M so much of my life?
what if he leaves me someday anyway?
what if this man is the only model my kids ever have for the role of husband?

and what if it really is better out there?
what if we (SI) are right about how strong you are?
what if he realizes he's wrong to think he can keep you and treat you like shit?
what if you look back on these days and feel lucky and grateful that you got out when you did?

all those things are just as possible as the tragedies you are imagining at the end of your what-if sentences.

this is your fear using your brain to trick you. it's anxiety...but it's not real. every part of you is afraid of change so it's fighting back. it's a tough fight. your soul just got smacked and all of you is looking for safety - and as humans, we don't see much safety in the unknown.

stick with us. keep surviving. we will keep sending the strength your way.

My mom was just told that she cannot go home because she has vascular dementia. She is crying and I'm sad for her. I know that it is probably best she doesn't live alone but a nursing home is too much. Cleaning out her apartment and finding homes for her cats seem like too much right now, but it has to be done.

I feel desperate, I feel like I'm losing my marriage, my mother, my sister that lives in this state, does not have the time or heart to even care about me, my own pastor doesn't even care. My husband's boss actually called our pastor a couple weeks ago and said that we needed help. This is after I had emailed the church asking for help. The pastor has not called us. I had sent a couple more emails explaining how you are supposed to care for those in your church and I don't feel that anyone cares for our family. I got a nasty email back from him telling him to stop emailing him and if I want to talk with him, my husband and I need to make an appointment to talk with him, but that he would. I guess I take that as a "you are bothering me, but since you won't leave me alone, I'll meet with you, but I really don't care".

I feel like I'm losing everything, even my sanity. I thought about checking myself in a hospital. I feel like I can't function,I'm scared of being alone, losing my kids to my husband, not having a place to live, no food, no one to care, oh and did I mention not having my kids.
The other bimbo will have the life I should have, the contractor husband that will one day make tons of money, the nice house, not this crap hole my husband makes us live in that has 3 bdrooms for 7 people and he doesn't maintain. My frickin washing machine has a hose from the washer to the sink to drain because it overflows, my dishwasher floods the house the tiles are coming up, he doesn't care.
His slut will get everything we should have had. My boys and my long awaited precious daughter.

I'm going to lose it today. I'm sickened.

that is a lot to deal with at once. i completely understand how every little thing has piled up until each one feels like its own mountain on top of another mountain of pressure and decisions, pain and sadness.

keep coming here. i know others will have many words for you. i wanted to jump in and send you my own friday morning hugs. just keep breathing...sometimes we can't get much more out of a day than that. it can still get better, i promise, and he CANT take your kids with him and bimbo. keeping breathing and providing the basics that you can (love) to your kids and no one will take them from you.

hold on, itsovernow...i know it's dark right now, but there will be light ahead. you get little glimpses here around the boards...try to have a grain of hope under all that despair.

i used to ask myself about looming responsibilities, "how am i going to deal with ____ or get through _____?" i would toil and fret for days before. then one day i realized that even though i never "figured out" how to get through or deal with many intimidating things, eventually i would look up and have gotten through it somehow. at some point i was able to catch myself in the worry phase and say to myself, "i have no idea how i will get through it, but i always do, somehow....and not by worrying the most."

sending love and light your way.

life must be rich and full of loving--it's no good otherwise, no good at all, for anyone - j. kerouac

You never had the transition between being a teenager to being a young adult. You went from teenager to adult in the blink of an eye. I know, because I did the same thing when I was your age. I was 17 and had a 5 year relationship with a man 10 years older than me. Big difference though, is that I never had any kids. You are married to a man that has kept you barefoot and pregnant, belittled and demeaned you for 18 years and from reading through your posts, has quite obviously never really LOVED you. Even if that isn't lipstick on those underwear, please realize that you deserve more. If you leave, you CAN find a way to continue to raise your kids, finish school and get a career...be something more for yourself in life. You seem to be quite an intelligent woman....read back through your posts and soak in what YOU have said. We are all hearing you loud and clear...but do you hear you?

Bless you and I really hope everything gets better for you.

You will be okay on your own. You will. One step at a time, remember? You don't have to jump out and do everything all at once. That is pretty much impossible. Just start working with an advocate who will help train you in the skills you need to survive.

People do care. We care here, very much. Enough to keep coming back to your thread to support you.

Your advocate will care. Your advocate will not tell you....don't bother me, I'm busy.

Your IC will care. They are usually very caring people. Again, interview first to make sure you get a good one.

If your WS cheated on you with the bimbo, he will cheat on her also at some point. Then she will be the one with the twisted gut and the strange marks on the underwear and the lies and blameshifting. Let her have him. Maybe it will distract him enough that he doesn't even come after the kids.

Plus, it won't look good in court. Even if they say they don't make decisions on adultery, most judges don't like it and will lean more your way.

I'm sorry to hear about your mom. I know that is a horrible thing to have to deal with on top of all this other stuff right now. Please please get some support in your area. You are not supposed to be doing all this alone!

I'm an independent learner. I finished high-school and most of my college at home, of course due to the fact he didn't want me in a real school.
I'm going to use my purple journal my sister gave me a long time ago and start setting goals, however small. I want to finish that collage course. The truth is that I may have to redo several classes if the requirements to my degree changed any. I'm so far in debt with Sallie Mae. H was paying them and then stopped in 2008. Now they're hounding me but they can't get water from a stone.
I have interests, I love babies(obviously) especially the little premature babies that need extra love. I bet I could help them to grow by holding them and infant massage.
I like the idea of helping people. Even becoming a social worker or doing something with social work is a possibility with the degree program I have.
I don't know what the next month holds for this family. The fear is whats killing me. My husband and his bimbo can have each other and all the riches in the world, but not my kids! I wish I could just move far away from him. I don't know if I can legally leave the state, though.

Have the older kids help out and use what time you can salvage to explore who ION is.

One of the first things I would do is find a new church. I know how it feels to get the brushoff from your pastor when you're hurting. Talk to people you know, find a church that is a family rather than a congregation. IME it's not the denomination that matters so much as the people in the church so branch out if you have to.

I know a pastor who does counseling through Skype if needed. I can give you his info or see if he knows someone for you to talk to.

You can also see if there's a local BAN group. Beyondaffairs.com

My group has only met twice but it really helps.

Try not to dwell in the negative. It comes on you often enough without letting it rule you. Focus on what is happening. What you can do. Plan for what might happen but try not to make it so real it hinders you. Because who knows, maybe your H will become the man he has yet to be. If not, then getting stronger in who you are will serve you well.

Yes, the stuff with my mom is hard, especially because she knows something is up. I keep her off the subject of my h. She's broken apart that she cannot go home. I try to detach myself from my problems for a while. Today I visited her at the nursing/rehab home. They want to keep her there. She is against assisted living facilities, but we've seen better then where she is. Some have their own apartments. She agreed that if I found her one to look at she would look. Getting her settled is a big priority right now. The pain she is feeling. She just turned 70 on April 5. She is still so young.

I logged on just to check on you this afternoon.

After reading your comments and recent posts -- what I want to say to you first is that the way my fWH treated me is FAR WORSE than my XH hitting me. There is no comparison.

It's hard to see that when you're in the middle of being emotionally and financially abused, because it's like being slowly boiled in water. But once you're out ...

i know your strength will come and go, so don't worry when that happens. you did a wonderful thing landing here.

((((ion))))

In your situation I'd post on the EFCA FB page asking if this is how pastors in their churches are supposed to treat their flock.

https://www.facebook.com/my.efca

Heck, let me know if you want me to and I'll post it- just be ready to pass the info about which pastor it is if they ask.

IMO its unacceptable for a church to not minister to the needs of their flock.

IMO its unacceptable for a church to not minister to the needs of their flock.

Agreed. I'm Catholic and two priests spent a lot of time with me after Dday, as well as a counselor from Catholic Charities. I think that support can be wonderful -- it was for me.

Oh, and today he told me that I really needed to get some serious help.

At this point, when he blasts you with things like this...think of projecting. I have to keep interjecting with my explanations that my husband is a repeat offender it's highly probable he's bipolar...so I've been to the rodeo so much, I'm should be called in as a clown for the bullriders!

My H also started saying a lot of crap like this, this last time and I'd listen & think or actually say "pot calls kettle black" because he was projecting his ills onto me. Your H is the one that needs serious help, as well as he should be asking himself how he's going to get by if you get divorced...and continue to ask as he lives in his car, eating his pork and beans.

As for your mom? Ack, she's only 6 years older than I. Is this a rehab home that wants to keep her or a long term residential home? There could be financial motivations behind their call to keep her. I'd have a serious consultation w a doctor independent of that home & consider that her getting a caregiver, either live-in or daily, meals on wheels, a housekeeper, visiting nurse or any combo of these things might not only be cheaper, but allow her to live more independently at home.

And keep the thoughts that as a SAHM, this man will never get full custody of your children. Those are empty threats...would he really want to ruin his fun, what with taking care of the kids fulltime?

[This message edited by oldtimer97 at 12:40 AM, June 2nd (Saturday)]

Everyone here is right about you being in the shit, even if you can't see it yourself at the moment. Take it one moment, one day at a time, but keep moving forward. And for goodness sake, STOP worrying about your children being taken away from you. That is just not even remotely likely to happen. You have plenty of things to worry about, but that is just not one of them.

It started with a slap to the face infront of a friend. Quickly progressed to multiple infidelities, some drug use, and he became a thief. He once was driving and i had caught him cheating and was yelling at him and he started punching my arm hard..i jumped OUT OF A MOVING vehicle and ran to a convience store, where he grabbed me by my hair and drug me back to the car while people WATCHED. He once chased me outside and smashed my head into the concrete so hard i was bloodied. He broke my hand once stomping on it. I have had broken ribs also. He once knocked me unconcious and i went to the hospital, and had to be admitted for a concussion. I told them i fell out of bed and hit a SHOE...wtf. I was insane also. Then he was arrested for RAPING A 23 YR OLD COLLEGE STUDENT WHILE HOLDING A KNIFE TO HER THROAT. He was sentenced to 25 yrs in prison. If it weren't for that poor girl...he would have eventually killed me. I know he would. Since then he has gone back to prison for child molestation. My only sense of satisfaction is knowing his ass has been raped mulitple times i'm sure. Prisoners do not take kindly to rapists and child molesters.

My point to this story is that IF I HAD NOT GOTTEN AWAY..i'd be dead. WIll he kill you? I do not know, is there rage like that somewhere down deep inside? YES. No man who will do those things to a woman just "get better" on thier own. THere is counseling, there are meds and diseases that can cause a violent person to be violent, but somewhere down deep he was wired that way. It may just be in remission.

Something someday can trigger it back. Do not think for one minute you are safe where you are. You are not. I'm a nurse and see the abuse to children all the time, its horrifying. I had a baby once i cared for who her dad had shook because she wouldnt stop crying. He had 3 other children he never hurt, but this one, he snapped on.

I'm not trying to freak you out, but you need to get away from him pronto. He is STILL THE ABUSIVE MAN YOU MARRIED..He has just changed his METHOD OF ABUSE. Back in my day (this was in 1981) it was "ok" to beat your wife. Cops didnt want to get involved in family affairs. I was sent to a womens shelter once and cops came, took pictures, then DROVE ME HOME..told him not to do it again and left me there

I can assure you it happened again, and again and again. I was so young, had no family within 300 miles, he wouldnt let me get a job, we were always broke, etc. Seriously i owe the woman he raped, my life. I didnt even have a car.

Emotional abuse is just as bad, its just another form. Maybe its not life threatening in the moment, but its killing you on the inside..and you just never know when that other side of him will rear his ugly head again.

We want you to be safe. This forum is for all of us, most of us are hear with pain of infidelity, most do not bear your scars and situation, but the top priority for you is to be safe and keep those babies safe.

I cannot believe the police drove you home. What a day to live in, where the authorities felt women were like children. Thank God there are ways out today.
I don't know what to do. I feel so angry at him lately.

I really do feel that he has cheated on me and that is what brought me here. I have a lot of reasons to feel that he's cheated, although he won't admit to them. From what I read on here, that's not uncommon.
Now that I've been here, though, the emotions of the past abuse and current emotional abuse have been coming out. They've always been there, but I've been thinking more and more about them.
He treats me like a child an I don't think he'll ever see me as anything else.

The way he talks to me is degrading and I tell him when he does it, but he mocks me and starts saying, "I know, everything is abuse" and rolls his eyes.

I haven't been on this weekend since he is usually home most of the time.

Conclusions:
- The stain material from the sample shows chemical similarities to a mixture of oils/waxes by FTIR. Also
present is a variety of minerals/elements such as iron oxides, zinc oxides, etc.
- This combination is consistent with a variety of cosmetic based products such as lipstick, makeup, hair
pigment, etc.
Procurement of Samples and Analytical Overview:
The material for analysis arrived at EMSL Analytical (Cinnaminson, NJ) on 05/29/2012. The package arrived in
satisfactory condition with no evidence of damage to the contents. The purpose of the analysis is to determine the
identification of the individual components. The data reported herein has been obtained using the following
equipment and methodologies.
Methods & Equipment: Stereo Light Microscopy (LM)
Polarized Light Microscopy (PLM)
Scanning Electron Microscopy (SEM)
Energy-dispersive X-Ray Spectrometry (EDX)
Fourier Transform Infrared Spectrometry (FTIR)
Analyzed by: 06/12/2012

**STOP POSTING PERSONAL NAMES***

[This message edited by Deeply Scared at 9:08 AM, June 13th (Wednesday)]

i'm so sorry that you had to go through all of this to get the truth

have you shared the results with your wh yet? do you intend to?

how are you coping with all of this?

you have the knowledge and proof now, you were right, you can trust yourself and instincts, you knew honey, you were right

we're here for you

WH denies denies denies. He is angry that I won't trust him that its not lipstick. He had his boss talk to me(you know the Sunday school teacher) well his boss started saying how sad it is that I couldn't trust my husband and how good of a man my WH is, how he would never ever cheat on me and its a shame that I'm not enjoying my husband. Do I have fool written on my forehead?

Seriously?!

Major Gaslighting.

A shelter, a friend, a hotel, whatever. Get yourself safe and call a lawyer today.

(((itsovernow)))

WH denies denies denies. He is angry that I won't trust him that its not lipstick.

What are you going to do with this info now? Are you going to file? Are you going to make him leave the house? Are you going to continue to 180 hard until you can do those things?

Whatever your plan... good luck!

1.I'm going to 180 until I can feel more confident about filing for divorce.

2.I'm an ebayer with tons of legos, lego star wars, ect... I'm going to liquidate these even though I didn't want to.

3.I have a lot of other old collectible toys. I'm going to liquidate and stash the cash. Anything ebayable will be ebayed.

4. I'm going to start putting away special things like pictures, and stuff my children made me in school over the years.

5. I'm going to take advantage of my WH by taking care of myself of "his bill". I'm going to get my hair done. I need to feel better about myself. This is my gift to myself.

6. I will start counseling. I need this for myself. I need to have an outlet to vent.

7. There is a lady at my church I've talked to a few times. She is single and lives one town over. I will try to reach out to her.

8. I am going to try to reach out to a different church.

9. I will have a private visit with an attorney. I will find out my rights.

10. I will try to keep the house as peaceful as possible for the children whilst packing up and planning for my future.

Any other suggestions? I need time. My three oldest are fearful and have heard the arguments and know what is going on. I'm so ashamed.

[This message edited by Deeply Scared at 8:50 AM, June 13th (Wednesday)]

Please do not post personal information such as your eBay seller name and the Dr that performed the test.

[This message edited by Deeply Scared at 9:26 AM, June 13th (Wednesday)]

You can also check out Textbroker.com for quick earnings.

You have a really great plan. I agree that it's unwise to post your ebay information, but if you feel safe PMing it, I would love to see your items.

(You reminded me that I have a handful of items I want to list for some quick $$--thank you.)

Has he been open and transparent? After all, those with nothing to hide, hide nothing. A good husband who is concerned for his wife's feelings won't try to make her shove everything down.

A loving husband would recognize that even if it's not true, the suspicions are a symptom of something amiss in your M and work at getting help to communicate and interact better. He would strive to make you feel safe, not fly at you like a momma bird attacking to protect her nest.

Then I'd tell him you'd appreciate it if he stayed out of what's left of your marriage. That clearly he doesnt know your husband very well,and unfortunately neither do you.

Tell him you enjoyed your husband just fine. but clearly someone wlse was "enjoying" him at the same time.

I think your plan is a great one. Be very careful not to tip your WS off. I think if you back down though,he will get suspicious. Tell him you did what he said and the results came back as makeup. The lab has no reason to lie,but he does.

Your plan sounds good, but if at any time his actions cause the hair on your back to rise, grab the kids and get the hell out of there.

I know what having a plan is. My 1st husband wasn't an abuser in the violent way (until I filed), he just was a psychopath & one of the reasons I stay here on SI, for others who come into contact with the ilk of mankind.

Now my present H, he's another story & after 14 yrs of his on and off acting out, I've finally availed myself again to an IC. Right now we are exploring whether my mother was an Narcissist (NPD). It seems the children of same are drawn to NPD's & it's not looking good for me, I might just fight that mould.***errgh, fit that mould**

So I'm going to pass on to you, some of the advice I've been given and that is to study Sam Vaknin..a world renown specialist on Narcissism who also happens to be one. You can find him on Youtube on not one, but two channels...he's a NPD, what would you expect But he has a thick accent & a monotone voice, so it's not easy listening.

What I found last night by Sam, (http://www.healthyplace.com/personality-disorders/malignant-self-love/narcissism-narcissistic-personality-disorder-npd/) I think would really be great for you to read & use to handle your H under these new circumstances, if the proverbial push comes to shove. Read the definition of a narcissist very carefully on the intro page and follow it through...there's some excellent tips on passively & not so passively avoiding the abuser. And make sure you also continue to drop by the NPD I Can Relate Forum. We've got your back.

One thing I didn't see on your list & I think you need to figure out a way to do this..whether as acknowledging to him it is a punishment is to get some freedom from him, so he isn't at your side every moment. Sam explains abandonment issues and there may be a way to use this to your advantage.

Hang tough....oh and as for his boss? He wouldn't be the first minister that has his own sinister secrets. I'd just ignore him or thank him for his concern & then just ignore him...and yes, find a new church!

[This message edited by oldtimer97 at 12:42 AM, June 14th (Thursday)]

ETA: One more thing. The FTIR in your report...as your H yells fake? This is a good description from a scientific study:

This work investigates whether Fourier transform infrared spectroscopy (FTIR), in combination with multivariate analysis, can distinguish extra virgin olive oils from different producing countries. Duplicate spectra were collected from 60 oils from four European countries........However, FTIR analysis is rapid, and this work shows that it has the required discriminatory power to potentially offer a “black box” method of screening oils to verify their country of origin.

If it weren't so tragic how deluded he is, it's hilarious he demanded you send them in for analysis. Guess he doesn't watch or read anything about true crime analysis to say the least.

[This message edited by oldtimer97 at 1:29 PM, June 13th (Wednesday)]

‎
2Beautiful daughters
DD 6/26/10 (he broke down & confessed)
DD#2 3/14/11 H in OW's car
TT 7/1/11 (NC broken, through emails)

In R

I'm so sorry you have to deal with all of this. Be careful about ebay also, it could be considered income, you need to contact your lawyer regarding alimony etc.

I feel insulted that he would question a scientist. This man has his Phd. I asked him earlier if it had come back as something else would he fight it? If it were me, would he believe me over the forensic testing?
Its like he may as well have said, "are you going to believe me or believe your own eyes?"

Its like he may as well have said, "are you going to believe me or believe your own eyes?"

at least you see it for what it is. (((((ion))))) stay strong and safe.

He still insists its fire caulk ...He brought home the tube of fire barrier and it has only one ingredient in it that the stain had and that is iron oxide.

Perfect! Now that you have a sample of the fire caulk, use it on another pair of his underwear. Let it set and then wash as before.

Of course, don't inform him you're doing this...

Let's see if the results look anywhere near that of the first pair of underwear?

He still insists its fire caulk and that the ingredients that are listed could be in that as well. He brought home the tube of fire barrier and it has only one ingredient in it that the stain had and that is iron oxide. He said that the zinc oxide is the same as the zinc borate. What about all the other things found, wax, oils, gypsum, quartz, and so on?

First of all, zinc oxide and zinc borate are very, very different substances.

Regardless, the lab that did the original analysis can determine to a very high degree of probability whether the "fire wax" is the same thing as was found on the underwear.

Of course, that would cost several hundred more dollars. . . .but if your husband is telling the truth he should be willing to pony up that amount to salvage his reputation and marriage. . . .

First of all, zinc oxide and zinc borate are very, very different substances.

I'm glad you have a plan, and I'm glad you're seeing your WH for what he is, but GAWD I wish I could help find you a way out of there yesterday. Please take care of yourself.

No amount of proof or convincing is going to make your husband admit he cheated. If the scientist who ran the test came to your house, put his hand on bible, looked your husband if the eye and said,

"Its Lipstick, Revlon, Scarlet A coloured, manufactured on 17 April 2010 in Bang Toe, China"

Your husband would say he's making it up cuz you paid him too.

He's not ready to admit it and he may never be. This isn't about what he has to say or who he convinces to believing him. It's about what you need to do.

So sorry. Hang in there.

[This message edited by Twitchy at 2:35 PM, June 14th (Thursday)]

I'm sick of his BS. Last night he got into a horrible fight with our 16 year old. Our 16 y/o is bi-polar and he's 200lbs and 6 feet tall so he's not a tiny kid. He was really messing with my WH. Last Sunday, my son had to go to the hospital for another episode probably caused by his bi polar disorder. He threatened to burn the house down. So apparently the cops were actually at the door last night while my WH and son were fighting. They were coming to arrest my son for the incident the other night. I don't know why it took until yesterday, but it did.
They heard everything. I was in the other room with the baby hiding. When I heard them fighting I hit record on my Ipod. So I have most of the fight on record.
Long story short, they both got arrested. I'm in a living hell. I honestly don't know what to do. I have to go to court with my son on the 25th and WH has court with son next month.

You need a plan? Here’s one…
• Call a DV shelter IMMEDIATELY. Arrange for someone to come help you pack and get you and your babies out of there ASAP. This must be done directly after your WH leaves for work. ***Request the results of the testing be sent to the Shelter*** This will be evidence in court.

• Drive to the bank that same day, while your WH is at work, withdrawal at least Half of the money—no less, maybe more.

• Go through the DV shelter for a lawyer—get started on the process. Whatever needs to be done, do.

• Contact the police and file a RO. Don’t violate it when it’s granted.

• Get some counseling for yourself AND your children.

Another thing, from what you’ve described, everyone on here is begging you to seek safety for yourself and your children.

As an adult, you may think, “I can handle whatever he throws at me and stay and be alright.” But your children won’t. You’re doing a HUGE disservice to your children by staying in this crap relationship. They’re watching your abuse and LEARNING to treat others that way. Are they being abused to? Are you unwilling to admit that they are--to yourself and to others? Don’t you feel guilty they’re being subjected to the POT that your WH is?

If everything that you’ve said is true, why are CONTINUING to subject your children to this BS?

What will it take for you to wake up? For one of your children to be seriously physically injured? They’re already suffering tons of emotional damage. And please do not say that your WH treats them just fine or is a model father—that’s an absolute fallacy. Abusers abuse with every word they speak—it may be subtle, but they do—and they do it to everyone around them.

It will be hard as hell, but aren’t your children worth better than this?

If I leave and take them away from their dad, they'll hate me.

My husband isn't the father of the year. It has been hard with my oldest and since he turned 13 its been really hard. He bashed my husband over the head with a baby gate when he was 13 and we had DCF in the house then. My husband was trying to calm him down. My oldest has been abusive to me when I was pregnant.

I feel bad posting on here because I haven't left and I'm scared to leave. If I had any family and parents that were supportive I would leave.

I can't explain how family is the courage behind you when you have to do something like leave. They protect you, give you a home, help with lawyers and give you strength. You feel backed and safe.

I don't have family.I have people that are related to me but the only "family" in my life is my sister in Florida. She is unstable right now and doesn't even have a job or a place of her own yet. Her new husband is also very stressed out around children.

I'm also a care giver to my mom. She is in a rehab place right now and this past Saturday, my mother had another stroke. She can communicate with me on a 3 year old level now.

My husband and son both have upcoming court dates I have DCF coming Monday. I'm going to reach out as much as I can. We are court ordered for counseling and I'm not holding back.

Fourever, you are so sweet and generous. I can't thank you enough and its possible that I may need that if all hell keeps breaking loose. I know I need it now.

I'm so sorry for frustrating you all. Thank you for caring.

[This message edited by itsovernow at 2:19 PM, June 15th (Friday)]

If I leave and take them away from their dad, they'll hate me.

sometimes kids hate what's good for them. even some kids that are being sexually abused still get mad at whomever takes them away from their abuser. should you leave that kid in her dad's bed? or do you deal with her anger to get her out where she has a chance and help from professionals?

My husband isn't the father of the year. It has been hard with my oldest and since he turned 13 its been really hard. He bashed my husband over the head with a baby gate when he was 13 and we had DCF in the house then. My husband was trying to calm him down.

ETA: i totally read that wrong. sorry. still...did all this really start when DS was 13? suddenly your sweet doting H became verbally abusive, dishonest, disrespectful and cruel? or do you think maybe DS watched a bunch of this happen before then...or have H react in a less than supportive, fatherly way to his behavior? i'm very familiar with BP so i understand how difficult that can get...i just have a hard time believing that your FT of a WH wasn't a contributor to this nightmare with DS and your younger ones.

[This message edited by stretch13 at 3:07 PM, June 15th (Friday)]

You will get support here whatever you decide to do. We all have advice but nobody is in your shoes but you.

God knows, I was told to leave my WH a million times and didn't, and my real friends were the ones who understood how hard it was and why I couldn't leave.

So don't apologise for your decisions. You alone know what you can and cannot face just now. Listen to the advice but it's always your decision and you will be supported regardless.

I am so sorry that you are in this situation.

when my two boys 9 and 7 woke up, they went right to their older brother and promptly said how much they hated him for having their dad arrested. They said that my oldest was beating the crap of of their dad.

It has been hard with my oldest and since he turned 13 its been really hard. He bashed my husband over the head with a baby gate when he was 13 and we had DCF in the house then.

I really honestly hope you get into some kind of IC for yourself to see the pattern that your husband's FOO issues and yours are perpetuating.

Again...when one is abused they do not see what the rest of the world sees. You staying is not making a happy well run family. But unless you see it nothing the rest of us say will help you...except that you HEAR that you need help.

So "possibly" your husbands long term anger and volatility thru the years is now starting to show up in your sons?

You need to get them away, whether they are angry or not. They need counseling so they can see what a healthy relationship is supposed to look like.

You know your relationship is done. Just make your plans, do what you need to to survive right now, and keep moving forward.

Have you called and talked with a shelter at all?

You don't need to go, but talking to someone can help put your mind at ease and help you realize what needs to be done, and that you do have some control over your own situation.

Think of it this way--you are your family to your children. Can they depend on you to provide them with a safe environment?

If I leave and take them away from their dad, they'll hate me

As Gently as LH can do gently...

Being a parent isn't a popularity contest. Do what's right for your children's health, and mental stability, and for your own. Not what you think will keep you in their good books.

There's not a person on here that doubted it was lipstick from the first post. You married a douchebag. Get yourself and your kids out of there and you'll realise very quickly you've been living under a dark shadow for so long you've forgotten what the sunlight is like.

Good luck, stay safe, and take care of yourself.

[This message edited by LonelyHusband at 6:53 AM, June 16th (Saturday)]

Good luck, and I hope your son gets the help he needs. This situation must be very hard on him. That's an even bigger reason to provide him with a better one.

I feel bad posting on here because I haven't left and I'm scared to leave. If I had any family and parents that were supportive I would leave.

Please please please don't feel bad for posting on here. Folks do care about you and want to help you! We all feel the sense of urgency, and want to be as supportive for you as possible. If posting helps you get a centimeter closer to your goals, then by all means do so, even if you haven't left yet. I'm sure it can be overwhelming, but please understand we are all concerned for you and your family's safety. Please, never feel bad for posting here! (((itsovernow)))

Is your son really bi-polar or is he emotionally damaged by being raised by an abusive a-hole? And is this what you want for the rest of your kids?

I hope you find the strength to get out. The sooner the better for all of you. Be careful and don't let him know. Just be gone one day when he gets home from work.

married 15 years, 2 kids: 10 DD, 11 DS
On the long, lonely road to D - or maybe not, one last try (I hope)

"It's hard to be in love when you can't tell lies!

Hugs to you!

"It's hard to be in love when you can't tell lies!

“I believe whatever doesn't kill you simply makes you... stranger." - The Joker

As far as everything else goes, I still have anger towards my husband. I am doing more for me and discovering who I am. I need me time. I'm still not getting free time from my kids, but I'm trying very hard to find out who I am and what I want out of life.

Dh is affectionate to me and seems to be chasing me. I don't feel like I even like him.
We had dcf in the house, they determined there was no abuse and left. We are getting family counseling from two different counselors right now. One comes here the other we go to.
We go together but I'm thinking that I need to have some alone time with the counselor and just vent.
I have also been more observant of my dh and how he treats my oldest and talks about him. My oldest does have problems, but as an adult, my husband shouldn't rank on him. He is always taking digs at him to me. I'm so sick of hearing an almost 40 year old always saying mean things about a 17 y/o. It really puts me off of him. He also criticizes people a lot. Its such a put off. For instance, he'll say somthing like, "that guy looks retarded." I'm thinking, what!! Why in the world are you saying it? Are you insecure about somthing? Sheesh!

"It's hard to be in love when you can't tell lies!

He/she has their reputations to uphold.

Whatever their findings were, they are what they are.

k9