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User Topic: Silly observation re:Game of Thrones
metamorphisis
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Default  Posted: 11:39 AM, May 27th (Sunday)

So I am loving the tv series and decided to read the books. I am loving those too..
BUT.. if I hadn't watched the tv series I would have a really really hard time following who everyone was. And this seems to be my problem with fantasy books in General. Take Lord of the Rings for example. If all the names of places and creatures, and characters are foreign to me or I have never heard them before I have a really hard time following who is who and what the hell they are talking about.

It's always made me feel really stupid, but if I don't have a frame of reference for what is being discussed I simply can not keep up. And then I give up because who the heck wants to take notes to read a book for leisure?

Anyway, just a silly observation. I am glad I saw the tv series first because I can follow who is who and how they are related. This only seems to happen to me with the fantasy genre. It's irritating. I do not have this problem with an epic novel about families in Europe or a war saga, just when every name and place is something I have never heard before.

[This message edited by metamorphisis at 11:40 AM, May 27th (Sunday)]



We don't see things as they are; we see them as we are.... Anais Nin

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metamorphisis
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Default  Posted: 11:42 AM, May 27th (Sunday)

And now I am moving my own post to the Book Club forum. So there.



We don't see things as they are; we see them as we are.... Anais Nin

Posts: 43990 | Registered: Sep 2006
JessicaFL127
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Default  Posted: 12:24 PM, May 27th (Sunday)

Well, it doesn't help that the author has writing ADD and drops one thread to run after a bright shiny thread somewhere else. By the time you get back to the first thread you forget who they were. He tries to cram too many storylines in.


BW,32
divorced for 6 years
mom to two awesome boys,10 and 9

"But you said your vows, and you closed the door
On so many men who would have loved you more" -Cath, DCFC

"The most amazing things can come from some terrible lies"


Posts: 1244 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Missouri
Mandilwen
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Default  Posted: 12:25 PM, May 27th (Sunday)

I was having a really hard time just trying to keep up with people just watching the shows, lol! Especially all the Stark kids. As it stands, I now know most names, but unless I see the characters of some of the men, I have no idea who they are talking about. It's a great show though!


BS-34; WXH-32; DS8; DS3; OC3
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Posts: 318 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Indy
metamorphisis
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Default  Posted: 3:21 PM, May 27th (Sunday)

Well, it doesn't help that the author has writing ADD and drops one thread to run after a bright shiny thread somewhere else. By the time you get back to the first thread you forget who they were. He tries to cram too many storylines in.

Yes! Even watching the show I am constantly thinking "Ok, where are we going with this?" and .."Exactly how many people are going to go after this throne because it's getting confusing"

Don't get me wrong.. I LOVE it but there is so much to follow



We don't see things as they are; we see them as we are.... Anais Nin

Posts: 43990 | Registered: Sep 2006
hit-by-a-train
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Default  Posted: 5:09 PM, May 27th (Sunday)

My hubby: "Best TV series EVER!"

I have the "what the heck is going ON" problem a lot with complicated plots, especially in books. It does help with this one to read along with the show. Therefore, I won't start book 3 until next year when they start Season 3.


In the depths of winter I finally learned there was in me an invincible summer..Albert Camus
**Beloved hubby died at home 1/28/2013, age 61..** God sent me two good men in a row......and saved the best for last. Grief & joy coexist.

Posts: 2279 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: USA
metamorphisis
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Default  Posted: 7:38 AM, May 28th (Monday)

Yes, usually I hate seeing the show first because the books are so much better. In this case, seeing the show first has really helped in the reading of the books.
Not only that, but as far as I am into the first one, the show hasn't deviated from the plot or the details one single bit. I don't know if it stays that way. It's like reading the script for the show. So far everything is pretty much the same which is kind of nice.



We don't see things as they are; we see them as we are.... Anais Nin

Posts: 43990 | Registered: Sep 2006
aesir
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Default  Posted: 12:11 PM, May 28th (Monday)

Okay, I am only posting on this as part of the TV club, not book club.

I can't get over how a character can seem so important to the story, and then the next thing you know, they are dead.

I think that they spent their budget for actors you recognize on characters that would not be around for very long just so that fans would tune in and get hooked on the show. I kinda did that based on Sean Bean because I used to watch all of the Sharpes mini series, and was pleased to see the guy from Stargate Atlantis who also played Conan. Both dead now. The creepy twin brother also seemed like an important character, and then almost at random they dumped molten gold over his head and killed him.

It does add more suspense to the show when you really don't know if the hero is going to survive, but I also wonder if the author didn't just get tired of writing some characters.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
traicionada
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Default  Posted: 12:33 PM, May 28th (Monday)

That's exactly my favorite thing about fantasy books...getting completely self absorbed on a different reality Right now, I'm reading Anathem


Real love is a CHOICE, NOT a feeling...

Posts: 3250 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: Dallas, Texas
aesir
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Default  Posted: 1:04 PM, May 28th (Monday)

That's exactly my favorite thing about fantasy books...getting completely self absorbed on a different reality Right now, I'm reading Anathem

Good fantasy and Science Fiction is not about the magic or technology (which the bad stuff uses as a Deus Machina), it is about ideas, and the story being able to be about the ideas without all of the messy reality that we are familiar with. If you write a story about an idea in Science Fiction or Fantasy, the world can be set up to support the ideas behind the story, where the same ideas in a historical or modern contexts would get hung up on crap like the budget deficit, relative state of social programs, or the interventions by outside governments or agencies that confused the issues.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
StillGoing
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Default  Posted: 3:27 PM, May 28th (Monday)

Well, the difference between LOTR and Game of Thrones, you didn't need to remember all those place names in LOTR. You didn't really even need to remember half the characters. Arwen was a bit part in the book iirc, literally one or two mentions then that's it outside appendices. That Aragorn was even rolling around in the hay with an elfmaid wasn't necessary to the story and didn't even play a real part. There are a lot of characters, but it's easier to remember Gandalf, who is supercool because he throws exploding pine cones and stabs giant demon things in the face, than it is to remember Glorfindel the elf-lord, because while Glorfindel is supercool too he's really just ambience. His detail is there in fine point for the people who want that, not for the sake of the story, and it's easily demonstrable because he's not only not in the movie, all the shit Arwen does is basically a mash up of him and other ambience characters.

Game of Thrones doesn't work like that so much. You have JOHN SNOW, then he's not important anymore. Then the Fat Kid. Ugly Knight Chick. They all do Important Things I Forgot but it's okay because by the time there are so many characters you wish he'd actually kill off more of them, they're all irrelevant because we're reading about some pedophile Gengis Khan screwing a 14 year old who turns into a dragon or something and.. what? Icewall? Oh yeah. There's a big fight. Fat kid and John Snow are back! But they aren't that important. Then there's some dwarf, who watched some incest, that led to a kid getting thrown out a window but saved by robot trolls who was subsequently raised by Hulderfolk in the Canary Islands, and he turned into a tree.

So Game of Thrones is more for people who just want a REALLY LONG bunch of books with lots of gratuitous sex and violence.

Also, aesir is dead on. It's why Asimov is such a great writer, even though his characters suck unless they're robots. His dialogue is terrible, his characters are so wooden cats try to crawl into the books to use them as scratching posts but he came up with the ideas of the laws of robotics and Positronic Brains and the stories were awesome because they made you think about how cool that shit is, instead of how amazing it is that George Lucas didn't write the worst character dialogue in sci-fi/fantasy.


Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.

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redrock
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Default  Posted: 7:10 PM, May 29th (Tuesday)

I was really enthusiastic about GoT for the first 3 books. But I very much agree with another poster in another thread that pointed out that Martin needed a stronger editor.

I like the journey as much ss anyone but damn dude..... lets do something g with those shiny dragons already.

I like the show too. I like the kick ass ladies. I am sure I will buy the next book---- but if I will whine my butt off if he pulls 2 more 1000 page books that each cover half the characters in the same time period.


I don't respect anyone that can't spell a word more than one way:)

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damncutekitty
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Default  Posted: 7:47 PM, May 29th (Tuesday)

I am watching the series with my BF. He's read the books. I am bad with names and CAN NOT for the life of me keep track of characters names. There are just too many. The only person whose name I can remember regularly is Joffrey because I really want dragons to eat his face. But I can't even remember my favorite character's name half the time (the blonde girl with the dragons).

My BF just laughs. He always seems know know who I am talking about.


Keep calm and carry on.

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metamorphisis
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Default  Posted: 7:51 PM, May 29th (Tuesday)

See!! It's hard isn't it!

And I want to strangle Joeffry with my bare hands .. the insipid little fucktard.

He just gets better and better that one does



We don't see things as they are; we see them as we are.... Anais Nin

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damncutekitty
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Default  Posted: 8:00 PM, May 29th (Tuesday)

And I read LOTR. Several times!

Maybe if I had read GoT it would be easier. But now that I am all into the show I kinda don't want spoilers. (my BF refuses to even give me tiny hints on what happens next)


Keep calm and carry on.

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metamorphisis
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Default  Posted: 8:15 PM, May 29th (Tuesday)

It's more fun to read the book since we finished the first season. The first book follows the story very closely so far.



We don't see things as they are; we see them as we are.... Anais Nin

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ladyvorkosigan
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Default  Posted: 7:27 AM, May 30th (Wednesday)

I think the reason I had a hard time keeping up with characters in the books but not so much in the series (other than the fact that the books prepped me, obvs) is that for me at least, his characters in the books lacked individual voices. They were named at the tops of the chapters, of course, but other than that, their voice, their perspectives on what was going down, etc., sounded alike to me. Kids, adults, normal people, freaks, whatever, the same. Of course it's been years, so maybe he's doing something subtle that I missed.

I think this explains my long held animosity toward Sansa's characterization. She's 11, for god's sake, and her inner monologue about all that Hound shit is like she's a 44-yo divorcee. Creepers gonna creep, it's not that I don't get that, but the creepee is not going to have the same perspective on the creeping at 11 that she'll have 30 years later. And Sansa was sheltered. Daenerys, I wasn't thrilled with her being 13, but at least she'd been through the shit, probably exposed to many unfortunate things, obviously would've been raped many times over by Viserys if Viserys hadn't needed to trade her hymen, and also she's magical and shit. So I can write that off. At least she'd started her period already, kwim? But Sansa...no. In retrospect, I'm not sure that it is a problem with Sansa's voice, though. I think it's a general problem with voice, and I was only sensitive to it with Sansa because of her being an *eleven year old girl* being creeped on by *old dudes*.

[This message edited by ladyvorkosigan at 7:38 AM, May 30th (Wednesday)]


It nagged him, in particular, that none of the girls hed known so far had given him a sense of unalloyed triumph.

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metamorphisis
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Default  Posted: 7:37 AM, May 30th (Wednesday)

I also can not reconcile the fact that Sansa and Daenerys are 11 and 13 with what I am reading. They used older actresses in the show, so I find myself picturing them in some acceptable middle ground age of late teens/early 20's. It's the only way it makes sense to me.

In fact it was one of the first things I said to Dh while reading "What do you mean she's 13!!??"
Though they are obviously young in the show, you don't get the sense that they are as young as they are in the books.



We don't see things as they are; we see them as we are.... Anais Nin

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aesir
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Default  Posted: 12:32 PM, May 30th (Wednesday)

Hey, 13 was middle aged back in the day when you would be dead by 30. Hard to imagine going through puberty and mid life crisis at the same time.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
ladyvorkosigan
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Default  Posted: 12:56 PM, May 30th (Wednesday)

What happens to them is different from how they process it internally, though. Terrible things happen to children all the time, but if you're given access to their interior monologue, even while all manner of disgusting middle-aged dudes are perving all over them, 11 and 13 are not sophisticated women of the world, capable of processing what's going on around them like a grown woman would. Of *any* world, even here and now. A kid who's been molested her whole life would still process men differently than *I* do, kwim? Just because 12-yo girls got married off and impregnated back in the day (or some places in this day) and the village didn't think there was anything wrong with it doesn't mean that the 12-yo had somehow managed to become exactly as capable of dealing with that as a 25-yo would be now. It just means that 12-yo suffered through it without any support.

It goes for all the Stark kids. I mean, Robb's *fourteen*, but that's more a Marty Stu issue. Quite a commander you are there, Robb, imagine how much better you'll be once you're old enough to get your learner's permit. Now, the fact that the character is fourteen in the books doesn't stop me from perving on series Robb, who is played by a 25/26-yo, and I don't have a problem with series Daenerys, who is the same age. Excellent choices. Sansa though...that actress is only one year older than the actress playing Arya, so that's just compounding the issue. I really don't know how I'm going to deal with Littlefinger perving at her too, ugh. Those girls are 14/15. No no no.

[This message edited by ladyvorkosigan at 1:08 PM, May 30th (Wednesday)]


It nagged him, in particular, that none of the girls hed known so far had given him a sense of unalloyed triumph.

Posts: 14226 | Registered: Sep 2005 | From: Florida
StillGoing
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Default  Posted: 3:31 PM, June 4th (Monday)

11 is fine. I mean Anakin blew up that Trade Federation blockade when he was like 6 or 7, so the contrast works fine when he shows up at the Icewall leading an army of Tsurani and Aes Sedai at the age of 13.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 3:32 PM, June 4th (Monday)]


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heart_in_a_blend
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Default  Posted: 5:02 PM, June 4th (Monday)

I don't like books like that. Dune comes to mind. I like the movie but could never get through the book.

Maybe I'm a keep it simply stupid kind of person.


In life, much of what one grieves one never had.

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StillGoing
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Default  Posted: 5:33 PM, June 4th (Monday)

I don't like books like that. Dune comes to mind. I like the movie but could never get through the book.

Maybe I'm a keep it simply stupid kind of person.

Dune is my go to for "Movies better than the book."

http://www.rinkworks.com/bookaminute/b/herbert.dune.shtml


Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.

Posts: 7370 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Fallen
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Default  Posted: 8:50 PM, June 4th (Monday)


About the books- I actually like that GRRM doesn't allow you to get too attached to anyone. His world is brutal, and bad things happen to his characters. You think you know who the hero is going to be, and then he kills them and you're left going WTF JUST HAPPENED?!!!

And just sayin... Khal Drogo/Jason Momoa = perfect casting.


You can't heal what you won't feel.

"There would be no grand absolution, only forgiveness meted out in these precious sips. It would well up from his heart in spoonfuls, and he would feed it to me. And it would be enough."


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Fighting2Survive
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Default  Posted: 8:57 PM, June 4th (Monday)

I don't like Sansa as a character, but it has nothing to do with her being 11. I think she's more believable as an 11 year-old than Daenerys is as a 13 year old (she's one tough ass 13 year old).

Sansa comes off as completely naive, even for her age. It's unthinkable to her in first few books that there are bad people. Everything is about a fairy tale. It made me want to slap her mother for not giving her a more realistic view.

GRRM isn't a great writer, but I do enjoy the books. I like it that he is telling the tale of Westeros not so much the individual characters.


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D-day: 3-22-10
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Posts: 7279 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: NC
metamorphisis
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Default  Posted: 9:46 PM, June 4th (Monday)

Just watched the season finale of episode 2.
There is no way I can wait another year for another season. I can't. I'll perish.

So someone please phone up HBO and get them on it please.



We don't see things as they are; we see them as we are.... Anais Nin

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heart_in_a_blend
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Default  Posted: 9:45 AM, June 5th (Tuesday)

I want the dragons. Got some people need burning to dust.


In life, much of what one grieves one never had.

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ladyvorkosigan
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Default  Posted: 12:52 PM, June 6th (Wednesday)

Oh, Theon. You shoulda *run*.


It nagged him, in particular, that none of the girls hed known so far had given him a sense of unalloyed triumph.

Posts: 14226 | Registered: Sep 2005 | From: Florida
metamorphisis
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Default  Posted: 1:05 PM, June 6th (Wednesday)

No shit!



We don't see things as they are; we see them as we are.... Anais Nin

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ladyvorkosigan
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Default  Posted: 2:55 PM, June 6th (Wednesday)

What're you doing? What, what, WHAT ARE YOU DOING?!


Spoiler alert!!!!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Meet Theon Greyjoy. He's about to be tortured, flayed, mutilated, and possibly castrated by Ramsay Bolton. This never would've happened if he'd had a Sassy Gay Friend.

[This message edited by ladyvorkosigan at 3:01 PM, June 6th (Wednesday)]


It nagged him, in particular, that none of the girls hed known so far had given him a sense of unalloyed triumph.

Posts: 14226 | Registered: Sep 2005 | From: Florida
redrock
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Default  Posted: 4:21 PM, June 6th (Wednesday)

Oh, Theon. You shoulda *run*.

I watched the last 2 episodes on my hands, hoping they would hold off on that shit till next season. It gets BAD. Yikes.

I will need the FF button next year for sure.


I don't respect anyone that can't spell a word more than one way:)

Posts: 3151 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Michigan
JessicaFL127
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Default  Posted: 9:37 PM, June 6th (Wednesday)

A Sassy Gay Friend could have prevented most problems throughout Westeros.


BW,32
divorced for 6 years
mom to two awesome boys,10 and 9

"But you said your vows, and you closed the door
On so many men who would have loved you more" -Cath, DCFC

"The most amazing things can come from some terrible lies"


Posts: 1244 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Missouri
ladyvorkosigan
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Default  Posted: 5:42 AM, June 7th (Thursday)

He's a stupid bitch. /scarf

Other stupid bitches: Ned, Jaime, Jon Arryn. ROBB. Meet Robb Stark. His mama writes checks that his dick can't cash.

Was anyone watching the Tywin/Arya scenes wishing wistfully that things could've been different for them so he could be her adopted grampa? Also, Charles Dance will apparently never stop being hot. Another thing is that in those scenes I could kind of understand Cersei a bit better. Growing up as his oldest, if he treated her like he treated Arya, it would've been a cruel awakening when he started treating her like a Sansa. She's very Hedda Gabler. And also, Cersei, Tyrion's big ol' head may have actually ended your mom's life but knowing her twins were boning each other likely made her want to die, anyway. I blame Cersei for the twincest for two reasons. First, because I ship Jaime/Brienne, so blaming Cersei is convenient. Second, because Jaime does what he's told, and there is just no way she didn't start that shit and perpetuate it. Jaime doesn't *pursue* things. He is a passive person. And I've always thought it was as much about her anger at Jaime being the heir even though she is older and he is poorly suited for the role anyway. He was certainly thoroughly ruined as an heir, was he not?


It nagged him, in particular, that none of the girls hed known so far had given him a sense of unalloyed triumph.

Posts: 14226 | Registered: Sep 2005 | From: Florida
redrock
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Member # 21538
Default  Posted: 4:04 PM, June 7th (Thursday)

Theon. I have empathy for that loser. He lost the life lottery for fucks sake. Not to say that he didn't throw his own ass down the chute too, but he had help...

A dad who is so freaking tough and Ironborn he sells his only son to cover his sealskin covered ass. And to make himself feel better labels him pussy numero uno. A sister who needs him to fail to solidfy her own powerbase.

A second in command that encourages his idiocy and then leaves him to pay the price....

Robb talking about being betrayed by his best friend?? You don't treat best friends like your servant...

Stark sent his own teenage son to the Wall. I don't think he was fawning over his ward.

I don't look forward to torture. Even if they only allude to it. Is it too much to hope that Ros is the one to save his sorry ass?

Tyrion was one sellsword away from rotting in the Eyrie. Too charming to be a bitch? Or likable? He is Mr. political savy with the slight falling in love with the whore problem....

Twincest... I too would like to blame Cersei. But at some point(by kid 2 or 3) you would think he would know his sister for who she is. And on the show they allude to the black haired baby she lost... You know she killed that kid. Wouldn't that be a big old sign to the kingslayer? Or maybe he is punishing himself for losing his honor etc...?

Either way I heart him and Tyrion. Bitches or not.



[This message edited by redrock at 4:04 PM, June 7th (Thursday)]


I don't respect anyone that can't spell a word more than one way:)

Posts: 3151 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Michigan
aesir
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Default  Posted: 6:24 PM, June 7th (Thursday)

He is Mr. political savy with the slight falling in love with the whore problem....
Isn't the latter almost a prerequisite for the former?

I just watched the last episode of S2. WTF? That was the end of season? I gotta wait a year? They are still writing more books?

In the future I think I will wait until shows are cancelled and then download the whole thing. I don't do patience well at times.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
sparky
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Default  Posted: 10:54 AM, June 12th (Tuesday)

Does anyone remember the Lily Allen video "Alfie" with the smoking self-abusing puppet as her brother. Just learned that it has based on her real brother, Alfie Allen (Theon).


BH-me
FWW-her
OP-her boss/former boss
DDAY #1- May, 2005, confessed to a drunken kiss after I found email
DDAY #2- April, 2008, found out resume contact (mostly work)
DDAY #3- May, 2008, confessed to PA before DDay #2, but claims nothing si

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JessicaFL127
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Default  Posted: 8:38 PM, June 12th (Tuesday)

YES! It took me a while once I learned who he was to stop seeing that puppet when Theon was on-screen. Poor Alfie!


BW,32
divorced for 6 years
mom to two awesome boys,10 and 9

"But you said your vows, and you closed the door
On so many men who would have loved you more" -Cath, DCFC

"The most amazing things can come from some terrible lies"


Posts: 1244 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Missouri
ladyvorkosigan
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Default  Posted: 2:35 PM, June 19th (Tuesday)

Oh yay, RomCom Game of Thrones starring my ship, Brienne/Jaime:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-w98pNAi9A&feature=player_embedded

I cannot *wait* for the makeover montage!


It nagged him, in particular, that none of the girls hed known so far had given him a sense of unalloyed triumph.

Posts: 14226 | Registered: Sep 2005 | From: Florida
JanaGreen
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Default  Posted: 8:33 AM, June 20th (Wednesday)

All right, this series was next on my list of things, but it sounds like I'm going to need a spreadsheet to keep up with the characters.

Or just keep referring back to this thread.


We're both in our 30s. One awesome 4-year-old daughter.

Posts: 6565 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Somewhere in the South
metamorphisis
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Default  Posted: 8:56 AM, June 20th (Wednesday)

One thing my husband pointed out with the books that I hadn't noticed..
When the author references a character he often makes note of a defining characteristic.
So if you haven't been reading about them for several chapters it makes them easier to place.



We don't see things as they are; we see them as we are.... Anais Nin

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SerJR
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Default  Posted: 6:05 PM, June 20th (Wednesday)

Wait 'til you see the character guide at the end, meta!

How is the TV series?

I read the books, about 8-9 years ago, but stopped after the 3rd book. I'm with LadyV on a lot of what she said (grit and realism are cool, but with the sex sometimes it seemed like I was looking at pages that Martin just spooged all over). I loved the first book but the more I read the less I started liking the series... and the less cohesive the world seemed.


Me: BH - Happily remarried.
Hope is never lost. It exists within you - it is real. It is not a force in and of itself - it is something that you create with every thought, action, and choice you make. It is a gift that you create for yourself.

Posts: 17093 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Further North than South
ladyvorkosigan
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Default  Posted: 8:22 AM, June 21st (Thursday)

When the author references a character he often makes note of a defining characteristic.
I've seen complaints about this, actually, that it's annoying. Me, I found it lazy, because it wouldn't be necessary if everybody's interior monologues weren't written in the same damn voice.

I mean, I should've peaced-out of Wheel of Time after Lord of Chaos because I knew he wasn't going to beat "Kneel before the Dragon Reborn, or you shall be knelt" unless he killed Faile painfully which was never going to happen and half-heartedly read maybe two more before going okay, Egwene, how fucking long are you going to camp the White Tower without attacking, plus I hate everything that is happening to mah boo Mat, so I was seriously done then. But you know what? As irritating as all that braid-yanking and skirt-rearranging was, I had no problem keeping up with all those characters. Clumsy, but effective. Perrin's interior monologue? Dumb as a sack of hair, so distinguishable from Mat, whose thoughts were quicker, and from Rand, with his moping and whinging.

[This message edited by ladyvorkosigan at 8:30 AM, June 21st (Thursday)]


It nagged him, in particular, that none of the girls hed known so far had given him a sense of unalloyed triumph.

Posts: 14226 | Registered: Sep 2005 | From: Florida
aesir
Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 9:49 AM, June 21st (Thursday)

I am still wondering if SerJR is going to have to return his Engineering diploma if he gets caught reading for pleasure.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
SerJR
Member
Member # 14993
Default  Posted: 6:27 AM, June 23rd (Saturday)

My diploma is the one with the pictures so I can read it too!


Me: BH - Happily remarried.
Hope is never lost. It exists within you - it is real. It is not a force in and of itself - it is something that you create with every thought, action, and choice you make. It is a gift that you create for yourself.

Posts: 17093 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Further North than South
Topic Posts: 44