The Beginning - I started having suspicions last summer. WH was saying he wasn’t terribly busy at work. FF to last fall and all of a sudden he is working late 2-4 nights a week, every week. Not telling me he is going to be working late or even calling me when he is leaving so I know when to expect him home. He starts wearing aftershave again. He starts trying to lose weight. He seems disconnected and distant. I flat out say, “What’s going on? Put your self in my place and let’s add this up and see how it looks.”

I get all the reassurances - I would NEVER, you are the ONLY, you can TRUST me. He told me he could turn on the GPS on his phone and use the family locator app, “oh, but I could always just leave the phone on my desk and then go back for it later, so you really wouldn’t know. I could take pictures of the office to prove I’m really at work.” Wow, for someone who has NEVER, you suddenly have a lot of info about avoiding detection.

I find SI. I check the cell phone logs, check his cell phone for text messages, check his computer history and email. Anything I can think of without his being aware that I am checking. I have all his passwords so no problem, right. Of course, there is the small problem of the software he suddenly has on his computer and phone that provides private browsing! I didn’t even know there was such a thing.

Just to keep things interesting, at this same time, he begins typing away like mad on his laptop at night (with me sitting in room with him). “What are you doing?” “Oh, I decided to start a journal, you know, to chronicle my day, what we had for dinner, what we are doing, that kind of thing. Kinda boring, but I like doing it.” So WH types like mad, pauses and folds his hands and reads, smirks and then goes back to typing. For hours at a time. Wow, for a boring life, you really are getting a kick out of this. And funny that it’s only on certain nights, guess life isn’t that interesting the rest of the week.

Takes me a while, because prior to this I have unequivocally (blindly, stupidly) trusted my WH. Did I mention we have been married for over 30 years? Finally I ask who he is talking to? He tries to sidestep and dissemble, but I keep pushing and tell him I KNOW he is chatting with someone online.

The Middle - So it starts to come out. Someone gave him the name of a website - it is a gateway to porn sites and online sex chat forums. Seems WH has struck up a friendship with several of the girls (from another country) on the forum, three in particular. But “they’re not that kind of girl, they only do it because they have no other option, one is supporting her orphaned brother (I kid you not)….” Cue the beginning of the minimizing, gaslighting and rationalizing.

This is an open forum and he just chats, he doesn’t go “private.” You have to pay to go private and he doesn’t want anything sexual, he is just there for the camaraderie. WH strikes up friendships with some of the other visitors and chats with them as well. Isn’t that nice, it’s really just one big happy, social forum. WH is a favorite of the girls because he is respectful and they understand he is just there to talk and don’t push him for more. WH is so respectful he keeps all the other visitors in line when they start to get rude.

WH tells the girls (and the rest of the open forum?) all about me, our DSs, our lives, what we are doing, where we are going on vacation, every detail. He learns all about the girls’ lives as well. WH’s face glows with pride when he says the girls tell him he is such a great man. He says this over and over. WH says that he has thought about it and if I were talking online in this manner to some men, it really wouldn’t bother him (believe me, I called bull on this!).

Well guess what, it bothers me! A LOT. WH agrees to stop (I know, I’ve lurked long enough to know better). And for several weeks he does.

You know what’s coming. WH resumes chatting with paid Internet Sex Sluts (my term - ISS - I was going to use PISS, but even as mad/hurt/devastated as I am, that just doesn’t seem right), again with me right there. Yeah, because I got STUPID in the last few weeks and don’t recognize what’s going on. To give WH credit, he does try to subdue his actions and tries not to laugh and react to what he is reading as much.

And here begins my journey down the rabbit hole (if you have had the fortitude to keep reading and I haven’t bored you yet). WH has been complaining the battery on his new smartphone doesn’t even last a day (and he has started keeping it with him AT ALL TIMES, I know another clue). So he leaves it plugged in in the car while he quickly runs into a store. I stay in the car and pick up his phone to try and see what is running the battery down so fast.

And there it is! I open his gmail (the one he says he can’t remember the password to and never uses). He reestablished contacted with the ISSs on Thursday!! I didn’t know how to forward the emails without him knowing so I just put the phone down. Once my hands stop shaking, and thanks to my lurking here, I realized I should take pictures of the messages.

Somehow I manage not to let on that I know something is going on. I am DISGUSTED and DEVASTATED by what I read. WH feels deeply, emotionally connected to ISSs. One is his favorite. He misses her, and money is tight right now, but he will try and visit as much as possible.

WTF!!!! OK, another lie exposed. This “great man” really IS paying for his “visits.” Hear that? That’s the sound of my world exploding!! Who is this man that can kiss me goodbye so tenderly in the morning and complain to his main-ISS just hours before about how hurt he is that I didn’t do enough for his Father’s day (ignoring the fact he completely blew off Mother’s Day)?

But wait, there’s more - another app I found on his phone is to locate hotels - and it gives you the option to search privately. But he has no idea how the app got on his phone! Oh, and he looks at the ads on CL just because they are interesting.

Really, WTF!!!! So exactly what am I dealing with - paid ISSs for sure, CL hookups maybe, more? What is going on with my life?

Told you this was going to be long. Thanks for reading.

[This message edited by nightsky at 3:09 PM, June 18th (Monday)]

I think you realize you've just uncovered the tip of the iceburg, unfortunately. Can you get access to his computer to install a keylogger?

You know we always advise NOT to confront until you have your proof. A keylogger will give you proof, but you must be emotionally prepared (if possible) for what you're going to find.

Keep posting and keep your cards hidden until you have the proof you need.

Hugs

I get it that part of your journey to healing is about 'who is this man'?

(Right now, he's a cheater. Cue the WS handbook. Right now, you know 'enough')

Best question to ask is what are you going to do. For yourself?

Do you have ducks in a row?
What if he is hookin up with randoms on cl?
One big thing is to stop having sex w him & get yourself tested.
You getting that duck quacked?
How 'bout the separation of finances? Free consult w L?
Stuff like that.

I admire your ability to hold it in, hide what you know. It's devastating and I just want to hug you.

I'm a fan of gathering evidence then dropping the dime.
Unless you see remorse (different from regret)
and
Honesty
Transparency
No Contact

(Those 4 things are the foundation of successful R)
You'd be just spinning your wheels. Wasting your time and life.
I wouldn't want that for you.

Anyway, thank you for slogging your way thru my first post. I know I was all over the place and there is a lot more (there always is) and I left a lot out. Like many others here, I thought we had a very good marriage and partnership. Sure we were feeling a little bored and restless as empty-nesters, but we had always been a very strong, loving, committed couple, as well as dedicated parents. We share the same core values and I never doubted we were in it for the long haul. Now this man is a stranger that can lie to my face. He has always abhorred cheaters, and he is engaging in activities that devastate me to the core. Well, I have been amazed at my own acting ability since Saturday. I will not let on at all until I am ready (at least I’m trying).

You ask some very relevant, difficult to answer questions. I just posted in the Online Cheating section in I can Relate (told you I have been lurking for a long time). I said, I will be honest and admit that until I know all the facts or have more evidence, it’s easy for me to almost think this isn’t really happening. I have never joined a forum before, never posted on the internet. It took me hours to come up with a username for this site. After I posted my story this afternoon, my hands shook worse than when I found the two emails. It made it real, it made it made it so that I HAVE to continue forward, it made it so that I will have to make decisions about what I find.

But, it is real. My H is a WH. I have been a loyal, trusting, caring, giving wife and mother for over 30 years. I am a BS. Oh my God, oh my God!

[This message edited by nightsky at 7:41 PM, June 18th (Monday)]

Anyway, I know I need to do a keylogger, but I'm worried he will be able to detect them. My WH has been, up till now, rather unsavvy as far as computer usage. Suddenly he has programs on the phone and PC that block recording of browsing history, searches, activity of any kind. I'm afraid these programs will pick up the KL. And the program he uses to go "visit" his ISSs, comes with this private feature.

Maybe it is value-added from his ISSs. You know, pay us to cheat on your BS and we will show you how to do it without a trace!

F Them!

It's amazing how different things look when the loving, TRUSTING wife glasses come off. WH spent the night in his huge lounge chair again. Said he didn't want to disturb me in the middle of the night when he woke up at 2:00. Really? Or is it because you were up so late after I went to bed chatting with your ISSs?

I wonder which one was on duty last night? Was it ISS-2 who so unselfishly shares her positive energy with you and you think of when you close your eyes? Or was is ISS-1 who is so truly beautiful and you will "visit" when you have the money? Maybe ISS-3 put in an appearance. Which one do you think of when you make love to me? Or do you just have sex with me while making love to them in your head?

Sorry, I guess I need to start a journal for some of this stuff. I just feel so lost/confused/scared.... Don't know what which end is up from one second to the next. OK, deep breath and try to calm my chaotic brain. Thank God I found SI. I'm going to need an anchor for a little while.

Thanks a lot ASSHOLE!!!! It's called the Infidelity Diet, but I really can't recommend it.

Thanks a lot ASSHOLE!!!! It's called the Infidelity Diet, but I really can't recommend it.

Edit: sorry for the double post. On my phone, very hard. At least it should cut down on my verbal diarrhea

[This message edited by nightsky at 7:33 AM, June 19th (Tuesday)]

I love the "journal" excuse. If it makes you feel any better, I fell for my H "just playing games" when I would ask what he was doing on the computer. (Like yours, it was on his lap while he sat in his big ole' comfy chair.)

I know in my case, there were hookups. I've seen quite a few on SI who initially thought it was just online only to find out that it became a physical affair.

Keep digging. They're not as clever as they think they are.

Again, I am really sorry that you're here.

You are, however, in the perfect place for support and information. Most of us know the shaking sick feeling of the 'investigation' and discovery.

A couple things that stood out in your post.... A hotel app. That suggests that he is not planning to keep this online-only. C/L is rife with women pretending to be horny sluts, who really just need some help with the rent. Disguised prostitutes. Believe me, I know. My h "loved" to read the ads there too. Until his 3 yr efforts failed to get him a freebie and he paid two of them.
I have a feeling your h has a secret email account. Also be sure to check your bank accounts and credit cards carefully. I have seen some on here who had secret cell phones and credit cards. You may be able to get a credit report and see if there are cards he has hidden from you too.

Good luck hon. Hugs!

[This message edited by DrivingPast at 2:06 PM, June 19th (Tuesday)]

D-day #1 Jan 31 2007
D-Day #2 March 25 2007
Roll on Roll on Roller Coaster
We're one day older and one step closer
Roll on there's mountains to climb
Roll on we're on borrowed time
-Kid Rock

Working on Re

BTW, once you get to 50 posts it unlocks a forum on investigative tips that can be VERY useful in your situation.
Kudos for not revealing what you know to him.

I didn’t catch him in the act of fucking another woman (yet?). Four days ago I found the first proof that he is at least betraying me with sex sluts online. I keep telling myself that this is enough to know. He has made the decision to become emotionally connected to these ISSs. He actively seeks them out - after I have told him that I need him to show ME that he thinks about me, that I am somewhere in his thoughts. Nope, and now I am just beginning to know why. His sluts are more important. His sluts take up that place in his thoughts where I belong.

And now the hard part. My WH and I always said that our marriage was built on a very strong foundation of RESPECT for each other. Yes, we love each other, and I at least am still very much in love with my husband. Well, I was until last Saturday afternoon. But the man that I thought was my husband is a WH. I shudder every time I make myself type that.

This WH, the man who sits across the dinner table from me or climbs in to bed with me each night, is so desperate for validation that he pays sex sluts for it over the internet. He so badly needs to be told that he is a great man and have his ego stroked that he seeks out these sluts to say it. How sad and pathetic! How do I respect that?

So, the part that scares me SHITLESS. Do I have enough respect for myself, do I have the courage I need to face this situation my WH has selfishly created? Do I respect myself enough to say my husband is a fucking, selfish, insecure cheater and really believe it? Do I have to courage to say it and believe it and then do what is necessary?

I always thought I did. I always said that I respected myself enough that I would never tolerate infidelity. That if my WH didn’t respect me enough to remain faithful to me, that I at least respected myself enough not to accept it.

Wow, sounds impressive - you go girl! But guess what, I am scared to death! I am trying and I know I have to. If I can’t respect myself, does that make my life as pitiful as his?

I read a post somewhere on here the other day about virtual hugs. Let me tell you I can feel them every time I read one of your responses. I feel embraced by your caring and support. I have no words to tell you how much that means to me. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Betrayal sucks. Finding your center after finding that everything you thought was true and "given" is upside down is hard.

You are having to adjust to the idea that the man you married is missing and in his place is a lying deceiving brain eating alien who looks like your H but is in fact a WH pretending to be the man you thought he was.

Post, vent, cry, share. We've been there.

So how do I post and reply while sitting in the same room with him when all I have ever done up until this point is read on the computer (lately hours of SI)?

Gotta love the life that we livin'

Wondering - I appreciate your thoughts but I know I need more concrete evidence. He has already gaslighted me once. Fool me once...... I need this for me. Also our two grown DSs. If their world ends up getting shaken to the core by what this man who they love and respect has done, I better be 100% sure.

Don't think you are crazy for one
second ... Ever!!! I know that every betrayed spouse goes through the shock and denial for sometime.
I do think that for us that have been
Married for soo many years, had a
Super close relationship , we had each other on a pedestal and my H
ALWAYS would give advice against infidelity to anyone. It angered him, it disgusted him. He was the most caring loving and protective husband to me. After 20+ yrs he had an A with another MOW that he casually met at the gym. Within 2-3 months he did it. He betrayed me in the most excruciating painful way. I was in shock for a long time. I truly wanted to believe that he hadn't slept with her. My pain would only take me as far as an emotional A. In fact he confessed finally but would not admit it was ever sexual. I was hurt beyond belief. But truly hopeful it was not physical. Well after months I had the ugly horrible truth. I thought my heart had been stomped on before??? Well this almost took my life, I lost 40 lbs in 6-8 weeks, my hair fell out in chunks. I didn't sleep and basically prayed for death.

Don't WAIT to find more proof. He WILL GASLIGHT and sooner or later the sweet man that was your husband will become angry because you snooped , because you don't trust him after he was being "honest with you " he cannot have both worlds. You have to remember that most WS will deny even with 100% evidence !!! You could have video, audio and he will twist things in such a way that will make you want to crash your car into your house.
I know how bad the shakes are. I would get a "shaking attack" i would get that way when this 6th sense horrible gut feeling would come over me. I felt things when they were happening , I felt things, it was the closest to hell that I have ever been.

Gather your strength, point out every single thing that you know and NO it's not ok to email these sluts, chatting and probably actual sex. Don't doubt that it's happened. You can do this. Be ready to throw him out . He can tell the whole world that you threw him out over innocent chatting. You know the truth. And please don't do what I did :(. Lay in a dark bedroom for almost 2 months straight. Not even wanting to brush my hair, I wanted death.

Trust me we understand you and we know just how much this hurts. As for me I was in false R and threw him out again, garbage bags with his clothes, his dog also went with him. It was nasty. But he needed to see the reality and not the fantasy he was living. I say God sent him angels(complete strangers) signs. He woke up, slowly went from regret to full blown remorse and is working hard and is once again putting me first in our relationship.

Sorry for babbling but I feel your pain in your words.
((hugs))

I wanted to say thank you for your comments, support and guidance. It means so much and I need it so badly.

Apparently my super-actress mask did the trick. WH offered up the password no problem. I will fire up the netbook and see what I can see. Or if I can't find any traces, try and figure out what I'm up against. I also realized I should try and see when he downloaded the hotel app. The app store sends a confirming email.

I have checked the cell phone log. Nothing on voice or text that is suspicious. However, I checked the data. Data was recorded at least once an hour last night - the night he spent in his chair. There is also data all night on the weekends. But nothing on other week nights. Very weird. I don't know if it is some app hitting his phone, or if it is something else - like incoming emails?

He was very busy on his computer tonight. Stopped typing right at 9:00. The meter must have run out with his slut.

Please do what I regret not doing sooner..... install a keylogger, tonight if possible. Relytec has a great reputation (I have it now but he doesnt use that computer much) and it shows stillshots of the websites he browses, chats, keystrokes, everything, even if its in private. The best thing is they give at least a one week free trial without having to sign up for anything!

Sending hugs and thinking of you.

I am going to look around on the netbook tomorrow morning. I don't know why, but I get incredibly paranoid that he is going to be able to tell. So, what's the down side if he does? He confronts me and I confront him RIGHT BACK!!!

Anyway, I have a golden opportunity. I will have complete, uninterrupted access in a few days. If I can identify this "gateway" program I am worried about, I can investigate key loggers that will hopefully work around it.

Then I will really have to brace myself.

[This message edited by nightsky at 8:34 PM, June 19th (Tuesday)]

You've gotten good advice. I would gather all your evidence and store it somewhere safe.

Also, when he's asleep, go through his wallet. You'd be amazed what you can find -- credit cards you don't know about, phone numbers. It's easier than internet sleuthing IMO.

Squiffle, I agree. I almost feel I don't have the right posting here. There has been no physical contact (yet) that I am aware of. I'll admit I have to catch myself from trying to minimize the scope of this betrayal because it is only online.

But I have never questioned my trust and utter devotion to this man in 35 years. I thought I was receiving the same. To me, this is a betrayal to my very core. You are right, it is the disrespect. If he respected me and loved me, he could never put these ISSs in his life to the level that he has.

And this is where I hear all you wonderful SI people say - this isn't about me - he is broken. I know. I am beginning to know.

Caregiver said he is a brain eating alien in my WH's body. She is absolutely right. I am amazed at how seamlessly the two fit together. But then, my gut has been screaming for months, so I must have been seeing glimpses of the alien all along.

So many think it ends with confrontation and your evidence, like they will snap out of it when D Day happens....unfortunately this rarely happens. So that is why we tell you to be prepared, get your ducks in a row, find out about all of your finances, make sure you have money set aside for yourself, get a back up plan in place.

Cuz many times when they are this far along they won't stop...and you may find out much more that you don't know, like actual sex hookups for years, money going out the window to support his "sex" habit...so what are you going to do when you find this out??

Thats why we say take your time, don't confront until you have what you need in front of you and know what you want to do. So many of us wish we did not confront right away...be smart.

I agree that you need to keep digging, and do NOT confront until you have all the proof you might ever need in case of D.

Have you spoken to a lawyer to find out what your rights are? Please do this before confronting!!!

I am so sorry. Please prepare yourself. Many times we discover that things are much MUCH worse than we ever imagined. That may not be the case in your situation, but you must conduct your fact finding as if it is. Blowing this wide open before you have all the proof you need could be a HUGE mistake. How often does he leave the house alone? I would put a GPS on the car, and a VAR in the car.

Again, I am sorry you find yourself in our little club of pain and heartache.

Now the bad part. I snuck a look at WH phone this morning (where I can access his gmail). Lie #1 exposed - this has been going on for TWO YEARS, not the 8 months he tried to TT me with. WH seems to have broken up (again) with his ISS-1 last night. She hurt his feelings. WH wants her to have feelings for him. WH made reference to some “special place,” they even had a name for it. Sounds like WH created some fantasy land within his fantasy land for him and his ISS. How special.

We shall see. She replied that she didn’t mean it. That it was difficult for her being with WH in the beginning when he was a jerk but now he is a great man. Yeah, but she did it anyway! She said she will be doing this for several more years because she is in school and only doing it to pay the bills.

I want to load the key logger tomorrow. I want hard evidence and I have the perfect opportunity to install and test. I am praying this gateway can’t detect the KL. The only purpose of this gateway is access to porn (I think). I’m worried that whatever this is it has detection ability built in.

Reality and PPGA (and everyone else who has previously advised), thank you. I needed to hear that again. I will start to document and store in a safe location. I was in the middle of writing about how I was going to confront if forced to by discovery of KL. Got myself all fired up! You are right, finding this evidence is only the very FIRST step. Now it needs to be about me. WH has no comprehension of the damage he has done - to himself, to me or our marriage.

Am I allowed to say what the gateway website/program is? Maybe someone else has dealt with it? WH referenced the forum they used to chat. Can I name that as well?

There has been no physical contact (yet) that I am aware of. I'll admit I have to catch myself from trying to minimize the scope of this betrayal because it is only online.

PLEASE be extra vigilent about this. My XWW said the same thing about an "inappropriate online relationship" while we were in R. Said they'd never even met. Made that a big distinction versus the prior other PA's. And, guess what? Turned out it HAD been physical. They'd hooked up in Vegas while she SAID she was visiting a friend in Oregon. She'd even "forwarded" the e-ticket from the airline for the flight from OR, then phoned me EVERY NIGHT "from Oregon." I never suspected a thing. Oh, and they also hooked up on our town when he flew here. Again, I had no idea.

It doesn't take a lot of time to hook up. And very few grown-ups (especially men) invest huge amounts of time and energy into romantic relationships that don't involve sex. A HUGE percentage of the relationships that WS's initially say are NOT physical turn out to be just that. Your H could be the exception, but I seriously doubt it.

So sorry you are having to deal with this. Stay strong and stay in touch.

((((((nightsky))))))

Gotta love the life that we livin'

Is there any chance their "Secret place" is a code word for a real place?

I agree with what others said... and to investigate the money trail.

I also suggest installing the keylogger and then act SUPER innocent to him(if you can stomach this) like you fell for the whole thing and you no longer suspect him. Maybe even that you are sorry for being suspicious. Then be sure to LEAVE THE HOUSE often. I bet that keylogger will show you a bunch.

btw, was there any other evidence in his gmail? 2 years sounds pretty deep into it :(

Just started a new thread “WH told her he has problems with fantasy vs. reality.” Yup, he thinks of her as a real person in his real life. Where does that leave me – his real wife? Or am I just a stand-in? Many of us have the agony of wondering who they are thinking of when we make love together. I now have to wonder who he is thinking of during every aspect of my life. Who did WH take on vacation last month? Who did WH buy Christmas presents for? Who bought him birthday presents and baked his cake? And on and on.

This morning I was ready to go into full battle mode if WH discovers the key logger and confronts me. Thank goodness the very wise veterans here talked me down and reminded me to get my ducks in a row. So jjct and everyone else:

Quack – keylogger tomorrow, install and test (fingers crossed it goes undetected)
Quack – I know deep in my gut the keylogger is going to hit paydirt, and it’s going to be very, very ugly
Quack – look for money trail, USB sticks (thought of this one today), passwords to accounts I will need
Quack – toss his office, car, basement, hobby bag as soon as possible
Quack – Get documents in order and find a lawyer for a consultation
Quack – IC for me for sure
Quack – God, I hope I don’t need this, but STD testing

Four days since D-Day. F**k my life!!!

Your ability to keep it together in the face of such craptacular circumstances is impressive. To keep it up, take care of yourself. Get enough sleep (one word: Ambien) and eat regularly, whether you feel like it or not (liquid "Ensure" stays down when nothing else will). And pace yourself. Breathe. This is a marathon, not a dash.

Get that IC--like the duck said. Also remember: You have a "flock" of supporters here on SI.

This is bread and butter to these ISSs. They are going to make sure the money keeps rolling in. How dare the BS interrupt the gravy train! This is my guess anyway. That or the person who introduced WH to this initially is helping him out. Heck, these desperate, pitiful men probably help each other out. One big happy social forum, remember?

ISS-1 is from a country formerly know by F.O.U.R. letters. Don't know if I'm allowed to say. I don't expect this break up to last any longer than the first one.

If there is something deeper, darker and more dense than "the fog," it seems my WH has discovered it. Lucky me.

[This message edited by nightsky at 5:43 PM, June 20th (Wednesday)]

He is very careful with his wording, but I believe my WH truly believes himself in love with ISS-1.

I keep saying "deeply emotionally connected." This is an affair.

[This message edited by nightsky at 8:13 PM, June 20th (Wednesday)]

Do you know the expression -- the truth will set you free -- but first it will piss you off?

The truth is horrible. It sounds like your WH is hooking up with these ISS and is emotionally connected too. Please protect yourself -- emotionally, financially, legally, physically (STD testing).

But when you really know what you are dealing with, THEN you can grapple with it and make a plan for yourself. It's worse to live in the dark, or create darkness with denial or minimizing.

We've lived it here, and we'll walk through it with you. I'm sorry he's such a disrespectful, horrible ass.

I am guessing you are referring to Russia. The Russian mob is deeply into Internet sex sites. Your H may be WAY way in over his head on this.... something about what you are describing as far as him not having been computer savvy previously, and now, suddenly he's an expert, scares me. Hell, for all you know, he's not even talking to a woman, but instead some guy that is trying to get money out of him.

This whole thing is creepy. I would seriously talk to a PI.

This definitely makes getting financial info all the more urgent.

That bastard! Just what has he brought into my life.

Yep PPGA is right. He is in over his head. He is probably talking to a big, greasy Russian man with hair coming out his ears and nose.

PLEASE tell someone IRL what is going on. He might be *coached* to do something bad to get more money. (arson etc)

More hugs.

I remember the days of discovery. The remnants of optimism when you know it is bad but not HOW bad and the optimism keeps you fueled and energized dealing with the hits as they come.

Be prepared. For me the optimism died a terrible progressive death as the worst it could be slipped into the worst I never ever imagined or knew was possible. The moments of shock where things suggested seemed not just possible but probable and HOW THE FUCK DID THIS HAPPEN drowned the optimism...

This is where the concern for YOU comes in. Make sure you are in the habit of nibbling and taking in water. Make sure you have real life connections who will come into your home and find you in the dark if you get "stuck" and need somebody.

Talk to us here. No matter how you feel or what you say or what you imagine or fantasize for revenge or think in hurt and anger... someone here has been there done that.

SI literally saved my life and my sanity.

Anyway, I am now 5 days in and 16 hours past a truly horrible discovery. No minimizing or denying for me anymore. My problem is ACCEPTING that this is my new reality. I am going 100 miles an hour but I am still having trouble taking it in.

So, met with a divorce lawyer. Really liked him. I told him all about SI. Several times he would say something and I would say, "well on SI they say...." Told him it was an amazing place of support, caring and resources.

Tomorrow a few more important tasks to cross off the list. As I sat with the lawyer, in my head I was thinking, well on SI they say not to make any decisions for at least six months. See, I take you with me everywhere I go. I no longer think I have the luxury of that kind of time.

I am still playing super-actress. WH has no idea that I suspect anything at all. I think. For some reason I think I have to get everything perfectly aligned before I confront. I'm a control-freak. Well, everything else in my life has just spun out of my control, so why shouldn't I want to hold onto as much control as I can.

I was thinking this morning that I have been blithely (blindly) living my life. My WH wrapped my life in his lie. That lie has now been stripped away. Now I need to find the nightsky that is left behind.

But at the end I slipped and called them internet WHORES. He chuckled, and I told him, well that's what they are!

The 6 month "rule" is when you have a remorseful spouse not actively in the affair.

You don't have that. Please protect yourself.

I actually had to sign off early last night. As much as there is NO WAY I could be doing any of this without the knowledge I have gained from SI, and more importantly your support, I needed a break. I needed some "normal." Besides, it was finally starting to kick in that I had only managed three hours of sleep the night before. So, I went to bed early to read. I had to focus to keep my attention on the book - it kept skittering to, OK look for the 1040s, find the bank statements, open the PO box.....

Went to read and popped a Tylenol PM. Left with WH with his ISS. I caught a glimpse last night for the first time, he didn't bail fast enough. There she was, posing on a bed in some shear something.

Wish me luck, I'm going to see if the keylogger worked. Shakes are back.

[This message edited by nightsky at 8:17 AM, June 22nd (Friday)]

((((nightsky))))

Besides, why wait. I know enough. I'm hoping I can hold onto my composure (have NO idea how) and I will not give up any more information than I want. I will just keep saying, "I know about.... I know about.... It doesn't matter how I know, I know about...."

I have drawn up my list of requirements. I'm hoping they are not so harsh that he will not consider doing what is necessary to stay in our 33 year marriage. But these ARE my requirements.

In the last 24 hours I have consulted a divorce attorney, opened a secret mail box, opened a secret bank account, photocopied the beginning of important documents and made arrangements with a friend to hide them.

Six days ago I was in complete ignorance of WH secret life. 48 hours ago the door was blown wide open.

He has no idea that I know.

Stay strong. We're all with you. I hope you feel as proud of yourself as I feel reading about how you've handled yourself.

Hugs for strength in what's ahead. Keep us posted.

You will never regret your pro-active approach.

You have been a student of the ways of a cheater and it will serve you well. Because, it is harshly true, there is a cheater's profile. Your understanding of this nature is good.

Please, please let us know how you are doing.

I am off to make more copies and I bought a VAR. I think the confrontation should/will be today. I will keep VAR in my pocket. I'm thinking this gives up today and tomorrow. Going to need all the time possible before going back to work on Monday morning.

Time to put all your wisdom into action. I am trembling just thinking about it, but I know I will be repeating in my head - "don't reveal your sources, don't let him gaslight, stay strong, do not falter on your requirements...."

Thank you SI and wish me luck. I don't know when I will be able to check back in but I will definitely let you know how it goes. I hope I can pull this off. But then, what choice did WH give me.

nightsky

Behind every woman who trusts no one, is a man who taught her to be that way!

If you can say about any of this pain and destruction “it went well,” our confrontation and discussion went well. I told him I knew about his secret life and the money he had been spending. I asked him how much $$. He said XX. Really? OK, maybe XX. I told him I KNOW it is XX. He said no way! I say YES.

He then immediately went and got the secret file (that I had photocopied that morning, hah, take that WH) of the cc bills he had been hiding (for years, boy do I feel dumb). I went and got a calculator. He spread the file open and handed me the first bill. By bill #2, we were at his second figure of XX. He got pale and quiet. He handed me the next bill and I kept adding. A few more bills in, and WH looked sick. He didn’t say another word, just kept handing me bills with his shaking hands. Welcome to our new marriage WH.

After a few minutes of discussion and him realizing that his secret fantasy life had crumbled to his feet, I pulled out a sheet of paper titled Requirements for our Marriage. I told him to take his time and read it over.

Many hours of discussion followed, but he immediately said he would do anything and give me everything on my list to save our marriage. Often times the discussion followed the very typical WH script, but he never ducked full responsibility for what he had done. He said over and over that it was indefensible.

I told him he has shattered my trust and that this is a betrayal that has cut me to the core and deeply wounded me. I saw my WH cringe and shudder every time I shared my pain with him. I told him of the physical and emotional toll this has taken on me for the past week and his eyes filled with tears. I told him that I would also be seeking IC to help me with the trauma he has created in my life and I saw it hit him like a physical blow.

I’m glad I was as prepared as possible for the discussion. Confrontation is a truly grueling experience. I tried to remain calm and focused. I kept my goal firmly planted in the front of my mind. Get the truth and save our marriage.

TT, well I already knew WAY more than he expected (I know I am prepared for more), so I kept pushing. Only a little bit of blameshifting – nope, not going to happen. He dropped that one pretty quickly.

There was a ton of minimizing. He still feels this was just a game, a fantasy that he indulged in for fun. I told him one thing he needs to figure out in counseling is what kind of “void” he has in his life that made him try and fill it with this kind of behavior. He agreed. I told him I thought he had a sickness. He agreed. I told him that this behavior has taken up an incredible amount of time and energy in his life and he agreed. I told him I felt his behavior and the way he conducted himself in his fantasy life has bled over into his behavior in real life. He agreed this might be true.

I had felt his disconnect and distance. I had repeatedly asked him for small gestures to show me that I was in his thoughts. I told him I felt his time, thoughts and mental energy were consumed by his secret life. He repeated that what he had done was indefensible.

There were many times during our discussion when we would reach an impasse. I would hold up my list of requirements and say, this is now our marriage. He wasn’t trying to duck and cover, but he needed to know that this is the new reality that he has created by his actions.

He desperately wants to know how I found out and what my sources are. He thinks I have been coached and sought outside help (I didn’t tell him I have already been to see a lawyer and he knows nothing about SI). He wants to know if I have told anyone. He wants to know what steps I have taken to protect myself. My response each and every time – At this point I see no reason to answer any of your questions. He agrees and sees the truth in this.

He is still vehemently denying any conduct or physical contact “in real life” that can be considered a betrayal of our marriage. I am standing firm on the STD testing for both of us. Hours into the discussion and after a bit of the shock and awe was beginning to wear off, I think he feels deeply offended by this requirement. Too bad. (He later called my list of requirements heinous but cannot/did not deny its necessity.) I held up the list and told him he has destroyed my trust and broken my heart. “Really, you can’t do this one thing?” He agreed to the testing.

Obviously, there is tons more but I just can pull it out of my brain right now. I was advised to have a VAR in my pocket (thank you!) because the discussion would be emotional and difficult to remember. Absolutely true. I will need to review the VAR over and over again I’m sure. I did take all the recommended precautions for my safety, but they were unnecessary. I truly believed this would be the case, but I also had no idea how WH was going to react. I will say I have NEVER, not once in 35 years, been afraid for my safety in any way. But I will always seek to be SAFE rather than sorry.

In retrospect, did I jump the gun with all my preparations? Absolutely not. Yes, I am thankful that WH has immediately taken responsibility and has apologized to me over and over again. He looks like a broken, battered man. I got the snotty tears this morning. It is hard for me not to apologize to HIM for what he is feeling. Co-dependency is a new concept for me (that I learned about here on SI) and I can see that I have more education in store. But WH did tell me he realizes this is about doing what is necessary to make me feel safe. His words, freely given.

After many hours he told me he thought I was handling this amazing well. I asked him what he meant. He said I was not yelling, screaming, throwing things – I was just calmly, but forcibly, addressing this painful new reality. I too felt it was important to acknowledge his response to this confrontation. I told him that I had no idea going in how he was going to react. I appreciated his immediate confession. He got the cc bills. We went through the online bank accounts. We opened his gmail and he had me read aloud the emails from the sluts. I used the words sluts throughout the entire confrontation.

So, this is our beginning. Am I hopeful, yes. But I know this is only 1 day in. This is our new marriage. Hopefully WH is willing to do the work, and continue to do it. I told him there is no quick fix, this is going to be a long, long process. I told him that if he had lied to me when I confronted him, his stuff would be in hefty bags in the driveway. If he does not immediately cease these activities, his stuff will be in bags in the driveway. If they contact him and he doesn’t tell me, his stuff is in the driveway. I told him that he knows me well enough after 35 years to know I am deadly serious.

Again, SI, thank you from the bottom of my heart for your support and caring.

nightsky

[This message edited by nightsky at 8:58 AM, June 24th (Sunday)]

You have got to be exhausted. Remember that you must take care of yourself. Although you have been awash in this nightmare for a bit, in many ways, the process is now just beginning and you must pace yourself.

Put yourself and your needs first. Take care of yourself and lean on us.

I give your WH points for saying his actions are indefensible. However, I would also count on this long and varied slut activity to be physical. So, absolutely insist on that testing.

Affairs are like addictions. He didn't quit. You busted him. So his will to fix this is not going to be as great as if he had his come to Jesus moment on his own. It's GOOD that he fears exposure. Use that.

Fixing the M is hard, hard work. Escapism and As feel good. He needs this all to get real and stay real, so don't let off the pressure and keep enforcing those boundaries. You're doing a GREAT job.

I told him one thing he needs to figure out in counseling is what kind of “void” he has in his life that made him try and fill it with this kind of behavior.

Please be cautious of that approach. Don't go down the path of he's a poor sausage. He cheated and spent your money because he is SELFISH and ENTITLED. That is where it starts and ends. His problem is NOT that he isn't getting "enough" of something, that he has a "void." His problem is he is not GIVING enough. That he is a selfish bastard who would risk everything for his jollies. Don't EVER lose sight of that. Don't let HIM lose sight of that. WS tend to feel very sorry for themselves. Codependent BSs feed that. It's good to be compassionate, but keep it in perspective and don't get played.

You really have your act together and have navigated this nightmare brilliantly. (((Big hugs)))

I think you did a FABULOUS job with your confrontation. BRAVO!

I agree with everything Squiffle wrote (usually do!) - it's OK to "lead" him in the direction of doing the hard work to own his shit. BUT, it's also a fine line you'd be walking to falling into sharing some responsibility for that "void". He needs to own it. 100%. And then he needs to find out what is lacking IN HIMSELF that he needed this crap.

Be supportive - yes, but do not take the blame or try to co-depend yourself into filling that void. It's his.

Im glad your h has owned up to it. I hate to add a negativity to this, but be careful of trusting him due to his "remorseful" and "willing to do anything" response. Its quite common to get that initially.

I went back and read your initial post. Aftershave and losing weight is not for online activities. It just really makes me wonder what his next step into depravity was headed. kwim?

My h had a similar reaction to yours. I was calm. He was bawling and ashamed of himself, promising anything(and we were actually separated at the time and I didnt confront with any real proof). He 'admitted' to what he had done over the next couple days. Problem is it was all only half true. To him it was the truth except for the "details". My anger and rage came later. As soon as I found out he twisted the truth and continued for months.
Be prepared for the possibility of tt and what they call the rollercoaster of emotions.

Its a good start, as far as it could be in this horrible situation. Thanks for keeping us posted.

I hope you are able to relax a little bit and recover from the stress of the last week.

Big hugs.

Wow Squiffle, you have no idea how timely your post is. I was really having a hard time watching WH struggle (with his shame?) on Sunday.

That being said, he started the day thrashing like a rabbit caught in a snare. He is totally obsessed about my “sources” and who is helping me with my plans and what steps I have taken. WH was really balking at putting his timeline into writing. He feels I am building a case to use against him. We talked as we ran some errands. I told him I was disappointed. That the day before he realized this was about making ME feel safe. I told him I was willing to be in this marriage and if I wasn’t this would already be over.

But, when we got home WH got my list of requirements and sat down at the computer and detailed the financial accounting. No more thrashing after that. Then he drew up a repayment schedule. Still quiet. He gave me a timeline. He sat with me and we went through all the finances. He was quiet all day.

But then at the end of the night WH came back to the STD testing. WH is basically furious that I am requiring this. He said some mean and hurtful things. As I laid awake in the middle of the night I started thinking.

WH IS making this about him. He is focused on the money aspect of this (I think that is where most of his shame comes in right now) and he is furious about the STD testing. Him, him, him. This is about ME – making me feel same in this new marriage after he destroyed my trust and created this mess. We agreed not to talk this morning before work. I told him I want to talk about things tonight.

My very first post here on SI, before I made my first concrete discovery, was about how I had told WH I was tired of living in “WH land.” That I was going to start spending time in the sovereign nation of Nightsky. And this was before DD. Boy, is this even more relevant and necessary now.

I was so focused on investigating and confrontation I didn’t have time to think about this part of the rollercoaster. It is not a journey of day by day, but hour by hour.

nightsky

[This message edited by nightsky at 6:58 AM, June 25th (Monday)]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IJw9jid5Yk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

~ Sabina

Just watch and wait and keep everything you know close to the vest. They generally will bargain and then manipulate. Stay the course, be strong.

I am not sure why your WH is reluctant to get STD testing. When I asked mine for testing he said ok. I can't help but think what is he afraid of. Have you told how this makes you feel?

Stay strong in the things you need him to do. My Wh did try to push the new rules and I had to remind him of the consequences. Going through the lies and finding out the entire truth was too devastating to go through again and I told him does not get another chance.

It is hard to believe they would do what they did and tell us they want to stay married. We are finally going to MC because this is something I am struggling with.

Yesterday was definitely a dip in the ride for me. I read through this thread again. Reading all your amazing support has put me back on the upswing. Thank you!

WH continues to do everything I have asked (demanded according to him, too bad). He said I am pulling all the strings. Well, that is where he has put us. He is still obsessed with my "sources." He definitely doesn't like feeling like he has no control. I might need to add a new set of initials to this alphabet soup - NPD?

I told WH he is too focused on the money. This is about ME. I keep telling him I have taken steps to make myself safe. This morning I told WH I need to be safe because what he has done has not only shattered my heart and broken my trust, but he has made me vulnerable. I need to make myself safe because he has made me vulnerable.

He wants it to be some far off time in the future. Keep in mind we are 3 days in. I told him at some point it will be. I asked him how he thought that would happen. WH told me "one day at a time." Boy, if he already want this over, he better do the hard work to get us there. I am calling about IC for myself today.

nightsky

Take good care of yourself~ Sabina

edited for formatting

[This message edited by SabinatheOwl at 7:46 AM, June 26th (Tuesday)]

I will think of this video every time I waver or hit that dip in the rollercoaster. This is definitely going on my ipod.

nightsky

I hope he's not NPD.
They are incapable of empathy, much less remorse.
Remorse is a key pillar of successful R.
Honesty
Transparency
NC
are the others.

You know what remorse is, as you've had it yourself. True remorse is concerned about the damage done to you, not consequences to himself (that's regret).

This is a good read:
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=324250&HL=25460

Strength to you!

I hope you are getting some rest and taking care of yourself.

I believe MDW most probably nailed the reason for your H continuing to be obsessed with your sources:

He's obsessed with your sources, so he could possibly believe you have more evidence.

PPGA

I don't know if it is still technically 180 if WH is doing the work, but it sure helped me last night. I think I can use it as a tool to help strengthen me, even if we are in this mess together. Use in when the rollercoaster dips down to help push me into the upward ride.

WH wanted to know about my STD test. Yes, it was embarrassing and difficult. I have been seeing this woman for many years and she knows about my/our life. WH wanted to know what I told her. Well, as I have basically no one IRL to talk to, I spilled everything. And I didn't think twice about doing do.

WH threw a major temper tantrum. Somehow I am supposed to protect his privacy and dignity throughout this mess. I told him - Na Yaw - No Way. This is about ME.

I told him he created this s*** storm and I think I have been dealing with it rather well! Then I left the house to do some errands.

Felt good. Felt like I was standing on my own two feet and not falling all over myself to make him feel better.

This morning WH told me he would call to schedule his test. No apology for his behavior/reaction, but one more item on the requirements list. WH has to struggle with his shame/embarrassment/pain/whatever by himself. And I have to let him.

Thanks again, SI. You Rock!!!!

Felt good. Felt like I was standing on my own two feet and not falling all over myself to make him feel better.

This IS what it is all about, you taking care of you!

Good job, Nightsky!

Somehow I am supposed to protect his privacy and dignity throughout this mess.

Narcissist much? Yeah, they expect you are going to keep their secrets and not tarnish their image.

Good for you for saying no. Image control is not in your job description. You are a BS not a spin doctor.

For a guy who says he just looks at ads and doesn't fuck around, it is curious that he's concerned about your tests. Were you going to pick something up from a Craigslist contact high? Osmosis? Has he admitted that these were physical affairs?

He probably wants to know if you got anything first, so it gives him the green light to get tested, so he can deny plausibility that he needed to get tested at all.

Mindfuck central.

Stay strong.

The website may well be in Russia and the "girl" may well be an old male computer tech.

They forward a summary of his chats to a hooker in the U.S. in their prostitution network who will pretend to be the chat girl, with some knowledge of past conversations. She will tell him she needs money to come to U.S. (even if already here) and then once she announces her arrival, will tell him she needs more money to pay for her cell phone to talk to him, needs money for a lawyer to get citizenship or to pay off the pimp who paid her way to u.s. and demands she work as a hooker in return to pay for transport. (This part is usually not a lie, since sex traffickers make women work as hookers or as unpaid help in businesses. But it will get him enmeshed in a scam and some very scary people in the long run.) Then maybe she will advise him how to rid himself of a wife, if his assets are considerable, then live with him for green card and also she will rid herself of him when his assets or property are used up or she can get all of it.

He should know this now.

[This message edited by Heavy Sigh at 7:50 AM, June 27th (Wednesday)]

The day after my own dday, my WS said, "We already talked about this. Why do we have to keep talking about it? Why can't you just get past it?"

This is typical WS-speak.
sn

I actually got the "how long are we going to pick at the scab" speech DURING the confrontation.

Picking at the scab??? Seriously???

I have to admit right now I am completely exhausted. I think I have been running on adrenalin and sheer panic since a week ago Saturday. How can it possibly have only been 12 days since my whole world crumbed to my feet. My whole reality has been blown apart. I have become so immersed in this s**t storm that it is difficult to remember the preceding 35 years I had with this man.

WH continues to be completely transparent as far as I can tell (believe me I am being diligent in checking). We are at a very strange place. We almost don't know how to act/be with each other. It is too early in this process and I am too drained to know how I feel or how to react to anything.

WH remains adamant that it was just a "game." I think it will be very difficult, if not impossible, for us to move forward and heal unless he can be truthful with himself. This is why one of my requirements is IC for himself.

But - I hear you SI - that is not my problem. I will/must heal myself! I am trying to continue to make progress and do what is in MY best interests.

nightsky

So it has been 3 weeks since DDay and 2 weeks since the confrontation. It feels like forever. Did the preceding 35 years even exist? WH continues to do everything requested/required and continues to be transparent – or so I thought. Uncovered another lie last Tuesday. WH tried to say it was a “lie of omission.” I said that wasn’t going to wash. I told WH he is just trying to protect himself and that does not make me feel safe.

Then I again got, “at some point we need to move beyond this.” I told WH that it has only been 9 days since the confrontation and since I had just discovered another lie that day I didn’t even know what it was I was supposed to “get over.” I also told WH that if I hadn’t confronted him, he would still be deeply engaged with his ISSs and still spending significant $$ on his online whores. He can’t refute that, he knows it is the truth. I asked WH when he would have stopped, how much more $$. He had no answer.

WH is still pushing to know the actions I have taken to protect myself and how I found out. I know I will NEVER reveal any of this. Never, never, never. And WH has lost the right to ask me to “trust” him by telling him. I implicitly and blindly trusted this man for over 35 years. A WH has taken his place. As of D-day, I will never allow myself to be vulnerable again.

WH is standing firm on “it was just a game and it NEVER affected how he feels about me or our marriage.” He is still focused on the $$. I think WH feels this is the extent, or at least most egregious part, of his betrayal. I told WH that his actions and absorption with his ISSs has wounded me deeply and that in my heart I feel this behavior was an affair. WH has broken his marriage vows and betrayed me. He has shattered my trust and I no longer am able to trust him. My IC said this was “physical” because of the visual aspect of the online chats. Boy, that sure rocked me and sent another dagger to my heart.

WH asked me what I wanted. He said he would apologize 100 times a day if that is what I wanted. I told him I have thought about things that have occurred over the last two years and said to myself, “that f**king bas***d.” This is when he truly got upset. WH then told me at some point I will need to forgive him because we will not be able to have a marriage if I think of him as a FB. Tears by him at this point. So, again it is about him. He was “upset” when I told him about MY pain, but tears because he is a FB. He is feeling sorry for himself. Regret, yes. Remorse, not sure I have really seen it yet.

The rollercoaster is brutal. WH and our new reality send me hurtling down. The support and caring I feel from SI strengthen me and push me onto the upward climb. I am doing fairly well at trying to eat and stay hydrated. Sleep is my biggest problem. I am taking Benadryl every night; otherwise I am awake for hours in the middle of the night. My Dr. and IC both recommended it and said it wasn’t habit-forming. Side benefit is that it is helping with my allergies

WH starts IC next week. He doesn’t seem to be going into it with a very positive attitude. WH is still so deep in denial! He said it will be a “one and done.” I told him, no problem. If that was the case he will find his stuff in hefty bags out in the driveway.

I am trying to focus on myself. I am continuing my IC and starting to ask myself just what it is I really want. I want to make myself stronger. I want to regain the parts of me that fell away during the years I was busy being a wife and mother raising my family. I told my IC that I have to love the person I am when I roll out of bed in the morning. Big words, now it is time for MY actions.

This marriage will never be the same. I will never be the same. I will work on making myself stronger and WH and I will have to see what the possibilities are for this new marriage.

nightsky

I just read your entire thread and wanted to tell you that you are amazing.

He's bargaining with the consequences, desperately engaged in minimizing them - to himself, mind you!

It's a hard thing. We want there to be true remorse so bad, we accept crumbs. So often, the hardness of their selfish, entitled hearts is inversely proportional to the amount of lip- moving, spewing empty babble.

You might want to hang a hefty bag on a doorknob and go rattle it. After awhile, you can train him to shut up just by glancing at it.

I wish you well (((nightsky)))

jjct, your message was very timely. We had a very tough night, mainly because I wouldn't roll over like I usually do. I totally let loose and let him see my pain and I threw in a whole bunch of anger! I wouldn't let him minimize or deflect. I wouldn't let him brow-beat me into quitting and keeping quiet. Man, there really is a WS handbook. I feel like we are working our way through it page by page. WH is surprised I'm not letting him skip chapters!

Thanks for the support.

nightsky

[This message edited by nightsky at 6:58 AM, July 10th (Tuesday)]

I can sympathize as the exact same thing happened to me, only it was a "friend" in CA. Thank God you listened to your gut.

Perhaps if you drop the topic with him and act like you do not have any concerns he will feel comfortable enough to continue with his actions. This will give you time to install a keylogger. If interested in a different option, I got my proof of the A by having a program installed on my ex's computer that showed every single website, keystroke typed, pages looked at, EVERY activity.

Stay strong, get the proof you need, and take care of yourself. You have begun a long and painful journey, but you have friends here. Hugs to you.