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Divorce/Separation
User Topic: Today in counseling, i learned...
KeepOnMovin
Member
Member # 38245
Sad  Posted: 1:51 PM, January 30th (Wednesday)

...I am the reason DS15 blames his mom for the separation and divorce. (STBXW and I met at counselors to discuss DS15 and his anger/relationship with his mom.) I learned my reaction, during our first family session, caused DS15 to align with me and alienate his mom. I got teary-eyed when we were discussing the divorce with the kids and said, "You boys are such good kids. Nobody could ask for anything more. It's not fair. It is bullshit, and you don't deserve this." Counselor said i threw STBXW under the bus, and she (counselor) had to swoop in and try to control the damage by saying, "and your mom is hurting just as much as your dad" Doesn't matter that Mom has shown absolutely no sadness or remorse regarding the separation.

Yet another example of my impulsiveness and reactionary personality. I just don't get it. DS17 and DS10 haven't 'aligned' with me, and they were there for the same conversation. I asked whether it might have anything to do with DS15 snooping on his mom's phone and finding evidence she's having an affair several months ahead of us telling the boys? "well, that may have set the stage, but your reaction makes it look like she's the bad guy and you're the victim."

So lying, betrayal, and going outside of the marriage when things aren't going well doesn't make you a 'bad guy', but my reaction while talking to the boys does? And, i also learned i should have let DS15 know it's unacceptable to snoop on his mom's phone.

I feel like i'm at the end of my rope. I really do. GOD, the last thing i want is to Fuck up my kids lives. Yet, here i am.

No "Father of the Year" nomination for me.

I mean, HOLY SHIT! I've done the best i can with what i've had to work with. Found out STBXW had a PA in September with a coworker. Basically, i looked into how i've failed in the marriage, forgave her and worked my ass off in counseling to address my culpability in the deterioration of the relationship. I've been freaking meditating, for goodness' sake! She attends counseling, blames me for everything and then i find out, in December, she's in some kind of long distance EA (maybe PA) with a different guy she dated 25 years ago. STBXW even told me she has NO REMORSE FOR WHAT SHE PUT ME THROUGH!

AND i never told any of the three kids anything negative about their mom. I've stuck to the party line, that both mom and dad love them very much and although we may not be together, we will always be there for them.

i'm done. just done!


Me: BH
Her: STBXWW
Married: 21 years
2 sons at home
1 son in college
Separated and proceeding with divorce.
Often it's the deepest pain which empowers you to grow into your highest self.

Posts: 295 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
Coraline
Member
Member # 36434
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, January 30th (Wednesday)

I think your counselor sucks and he or she is full of crap. He or she does not believe they could possibly have failed to make this painless and therefore has found a nice scapegoat in you. The fact of the matter is that everyone reacts differently, and your counselor should be looking at what it is about the relationship between that son and his mother that's causing this, rather than looming for someone to blame. Therapists need to accept their own limitations, and yours seems unwilling to believe that being unable to force this to be easy isn't a limitation he or she suffers from, so is looking for a reason why therapy has "failed". You're just a scapegoat, of that's all you really said.

[This message edited by Coraline at 2:00 PM, January 30th (Wednesday)]


Me: BW, 34 Him: WH, 35
3 Kids: 9, 3, and 1
Decree nisi will become absolute in January. We are DONE.

Posts: 771 | Registered: Aug 2012
Beowulf
New Member
Member # 38128
Default  Posted: 2:05 PM, January 30th (Wednesday)

KeepOnMovin
I am sorry that your have had this load of BS put on your shoulders. You have found yourself a SORRY MC. First of all a MC is NOT THERE TO ACCUSE. The minute they start doing this, they lose all credibility. Second you are the victim in this situation. I have seen bad counselors. Trust me you are not the culprit here. You MC is helping validate your WS’s blame shifting. Put a stop to it, your MC does not have any “skin in the game” in your marriage. There are plenty of good counselors out there.


The best revenge is living well.

Posts: 35 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Texas
Amazonia
Member
Member # 32810
Default  Posted: 2:06 PM, January 30th (Wednesday)

I got teary-eyed when we were discussing the divorce with the kids and said, "You boys are such good kids. Nobody could ask for anything more. It's not fair. It is bullshit, and you don't deserve this."

I completely fail to see how this is throwing your STBXW under the bus at all! It's not about her. It's about them, and you're right, it does suck and they don't deserve to have to go through this all.

I gotta say, not impressed with the counselor's line of thinking


"You yourself deserve your love and affection as much as anybody in the universe." -Buddha
"Let's face it, life is a crap shoot." -Sad in AZ

Posts: 13687 | Registered: Jul 2011
lieshurt
Member
Member # 14003
Default  Posted: 2:06 PM, January 30th (Wednesday)

I'm calling bullshit on the counselor too. Instead of holding your WS responsible for her choices and the consequences of those choices, your counselor has decided to point the finger at you. Don't think so.


I'm sorry if you don't like my Honesty, but to be fair I don't like your lies.

Sometimes it's better to push someone away...not because you stopped loving them but because you can't take the pain anymore.


Posts: 13722 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Houston
Holly-Isis
Member
Member # 13447
Default  Posted: 2:10 PM, January 30th (Wednesday)

That counselor is less than worthless.


"Being in love" first moved them to promise fidelity: this quieter love enables them to keep the promise. *CS Lewis*

Posts: 11127 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: Just a fool in limbo
greenink99
Member
Member # 38160
Default  Posted: 2:15 PM, January 30th (Wednesday)

Ohhh hell yeah I don't agree with that at all! It is a far greater lesson for your son to learn how to take responsibility for his actions in this world! It seems the IC instead is teaching him the benefit of manipulation by supporting his mother.

Only thing you can do now is crisis control. Just hold your head high and be the best father you can be, let her show her true colors and your kids will figure out what's right.

I've said the SAME words to my kids and they have gotten the SAME unrepentant attitude from their father. Only difference is that he's kind of bowed out of parenting.

Protect your kids at all cost. I still say allow your D15 space and security by not making him go over there is he's not ready.

All you can do is tell your kdis that you're not perfect, you're trying to do your best in this very difficult situation and you want them to be a team and you love them more than anything. It'll all be okay.


me 39
him 42
M 21.5 yrs
2DD

S 6/29/12
DD 10/18/12
starting D summer 2013


Posts: 132 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: West Coast
carnelian
Member
Member # 24824
Default  Posted: 2:23 PM, January 30th (Wednesday)

Not only condescending to you, but to your children as well - like they aren't able to see who's who and what's what. You counselor sucks, don't internalize this junk.


What are you going to do when he leaves you?

Posts: 564 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: Europe
cayc
Member
Member # 21964
Default  Posted: 2:24 PM, January 30th (Wednesday)

I asked whether it might have anything to do with DS15 snooping on his mom's phone and finding evidence she's having an affair several months ahead of us telling the boys?

Why yes stupid fucking worthless therapist, YES IT DOES. IT'S THE WHOLE REASON.

And, i also learned i should have let DS15 know it's unacceptable to snoop on his mom's phone.

Um. What about mom? Why can't she do this? Oh, that's right, because her credibility is blown.

Plus, "snooping". That's a mighty charged word when you're talking about kids who likely pick up parents phones to play games etc.

Ugh KOM. Please find another therapist. The one you're seeing sucks.


"The difference between involvement and commitment is like ham and eggs. The chicken is involved, the pig is committed." -Martina Navratilova
"The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me." -Ayn Rand

Posts: 3057 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Mexico
abbycadabby
Member
Member # 27428
Default  Posted: 2:30 PM, January 30th (Wednesday)

((((KOM))))

First off, it is commendable that you are attempting to address your DS' issues in this manner. That tells me you're a good dad.

Secondly, I agree with everyone else. That counselor is just plain wrong. On what planet is it okay to chastise you for "throwing your STBX under the bus" (I disagree with this assessment wholeheartedly, BTW) but not have the expectation that your DS could, I don't know, form his OWN opinion of his mother's actions independent of your feelings, and that the anger is just a consequence of his mother's actions in the first place?

What I'm saying boils down to this: where is your STBX's culpability in this? Your "impulsiveness" and "reactionary personality" is being blamed here, but no mention is made of STBX's actions.

And, I think the counselor should be figuring out ways for you two to jointly help alleviate your DS' anger rather than blaming. The blaming in and of itself is counter productive to what you are trying to accomplish- helping your DS.


Posts: 1234 | Registered: Feb 2010
Sad in AZ
Member
Member # 24239
Default  Posted: 2:33 PM, January 30th (Wednesday)

Your counselor is full of shit.

Let's frame this another way:

My mother stares at her great-grandson with a angry look. I sweep into the room, pick him up and hug him. Therefore, I'm the reason my great-nephew does not like my mother.

Seriously, get another therapist.


I solemnly swear that I am up to no good.

Posts: 20018 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Upstate NY
Nature_Girl
Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 2:37 PM, January 30th (Wednesday)

Fire your counselor. This person's approach is damaging to you.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9509 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
Faithful w/Love
Member
Member # 33128
Default  Posted: 2:38 PM, January 30th (Wednesday)

I am so sorry, you know I am really superised that you did call out the therapist and asked her why she was telling the kids that? And is a person who rips their family apart a good person at the time?
And why was she not asking your ds15 about his feeling and why he is so upset with his mother? Did she even ask about him and why? Sounds like she did the speaking and put you at the target of bad guy.
Your son is hurting horribly. And I am scared that if he can not express it or release it he may end up getting in some sort of trouble or become really distant with both of you. What he saw on her phone could have really disturb him and now he is protecting himself from her and is some how protecting you.
As a product of this as alot of us are with our parents, it does and can haunt you in ways you don't think. When WH was in his A, my therpist told me that it was opening wounds from what I went through with my parents and my mom's A's. When I sat and thought about how I was feeling everything came rushing back and I felt like a lost little girl again. It was horrible. We never really talked about it growing up but I think he really needs to before he lashes out.
And get a new therapist. DAMN HER!


BS(ME)40 WH(HIM)38
DD 19 and DS 15
Separated Aug 2012
Moved back home Oct 31 2013
False R. Still Lying.
Will be divorcing soon!
"You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have"!

Posts: 2661 | Registered: Aug 2011
inconnu
Member
Member # 24518
Default  Posted: 2:43 PM, January 30th (Wednesday)

Fire that counselor.

Continue to love your kids.

Continue to show your kids through your actions that you are the parent they can trust.

Do not beat yourself up for showing emotion in front of your kids. How else are they going to learn it's okay to be sad when sad things happen?

oh, and did I mention, fire that fucking idiot who's pretending to be a counselor?

ps. it's true, your kids may blame you or be mad at you too, but it'll be for other reasons. My ds17, who was 14 at the time his dad left, was mad at me for 2 years because he felt I talked about private things to too many people. He got to have his own feelings about the shitstorm that our lives became. I let him be mad. For 2 freakin' years. He learned I'd still love him anyway.


Say what you wanna say and let the words fall out...honestly
I wanna see you be brave

Pretty pretty please, don't you ever ever feel
Like you're less than, less than perfect


Posts: 12144 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: TX
Kajem
Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 2:43 PM, January 30th (Wednesday)

Wow. Just wow.

Why does it seem like your DS is being manipulated by his mother?

Keep your head held high, remember something... YOU (for all your faults) did not destroy your marriage... YOUR wife leaving the marriage destroyed it.

The only control you have in a situation like this is damage control. Show your DS by your actions that you are still his father, and you won't abandon him the way your wife did the marriage. It sucks to be the parent that gets to pick up the pieces of their hearts... but the sane parents are the ones who stick around and help the kids do just that. Be the sane parent.... her actions will also speak loudly to him. Just have patience.

I think the counselor needs a crash course in dealing with a manipulative parent. Your wife sounds like my X... funny once X left the kids therapy sessions... things got better between my kids and I.

Hugs,


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 5014 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
greenink99
Member
Member # 38160
Default  Posted: 2:49 PM, January 30th (Wednesday)

So many similarities - AND my D15 found out WH A (for all of us, I had no idea) by snooping in his phone too. WH immediately turned on her & started yelling "what're you doing snooping in my phone?!".

NOT her fault. NOT your S15 fault. D15 did try to tell her to respect her dad's privacy, but I interjected WH has done nothing to earn respect or privacy. We're deeply flawed and deeply hurt. It's alright for your kids to know we are vulnerable.


me 39
him 42
M 21.5 yrs
2DD

S 6/29/12
DD 10/18/12
starting D summer 2013


Posts: 132 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: West Coast
KeepOnMovin
Member
Member # 38245
Default  Posted: 4:31 PM, January 30th (Wednesday)

Please talk me off the ledge if i'm continuing to beat myself up here.

A friend just pointed out there is more than one meaning to the term 'bullshit'.

i had not thought about what i was going to say ahead of time. When i said, "it (or this) is bullshit", i was using the term "bullshit" to mean nonsense as in just a big mess. i.e. you kids are the victim of Mom and Dad failing to preserve the family you deserve.

If the counselor interpreted "it (or this) is bullshit" to mean a big lie (and the counselor did know what STBXW did, and that she is a liar), then i can see how this could be interpreted as an attempt to undermine their mom and align my kids on my side. That thought never occurred to me.

I had the idea that DS15 knew something, but did not know what he knew until Monday evening. STBXW and i had agreed to tell the kids that we have tried and have exhausted all methods to resolve our differences, and that mom and dad both love you and always will...

Or maybe i'm giving her too much credit, i don't know. She's supposed to be a specialist for kids going through divorce, so i'm sure she's seen a lot. (this is my first time, of course)

I have not and will never attempt to put my kids in the middle, make them choose, or use them as any type of leverage. And i have told DS15 it is not his job to protect me, and he should be able to go to mom's house and not worry that he is somehow betraying me. i am taking care of myself.

STBXW, OTHO, asked DS17 to please stop by on the days he's supposed to stay with dad to 'check on her'. Counselor did agree with me that can be seen as an attempt to align him on mom's side.

What i do know is it will be up to me to be the stability in the family and lead my kids through recovery. It is sort of difficult when you have not fully recovered yourself, so i am doing my best. I honestly think the truth would help me get closure in my relationship with STBXW. She hasn't come clean about anything at all with me. A bit of tt, only. MC admonished us NOT to discuss the relationship out of session. STBXW told me that she can not, and will not, help me get past the infidelity.

Oh. MC identifed STBXW as failing to maintain healthy boundaries in our relationship. That is her culpability in the marriage failure.


Me: BH
Her: STBXWW
Married: 21 years
2 sons at home
1 son in college
Separated and proceeding with divorce.
Often it's the deepest pain which empowers you to grow into your highest self.

Posts: 295 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
Take2
Member
Member # 23890
Default  Posted: 4:49 PM, January 30th (Wednesday)

This should read: "Today in counseling I learned that my counselor may be an expert but that doesn't mean she is any good...

This is a tough crowd down here where protecting the kids is concerned, and these folks call people out on parental alienation if deserved. In your case, I think your counselor sucks!

Even if she misunderstood - she should have clarified before going further. My guess is your son is going to get even more pissy at this point. The only person who has done something wrong is the one the counselor is defending and protecting. Makes me wonder about your counselor's personal background...

[This message edited by Take2 at 4:52 PM, January 30th (Wednesday)]


"We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned, so as to have the life that is waiting for us." Joseph Campbell...So, If fear was not a factor - what would you do?

Posts: 4112 | Registered: May 2009 | From: New England
Dreamboat
Member
Member # 10506
Default  Posted: 4:52 PM, January 30th (Wednesday)

That counselor feels a connection or sympathy for your WW, for whatever reason. Maybe she always sides with the mother. Maybe she was a WW herself. Maybe she is offended by men who show emotion. I don't know and it doesn't matter. What does matter is that she is not neutral. Imagine how she might try to brow beat DS15 into "respecting" his mother?

Just because IC hangs out a sign that says she specializes in D does not mean she is any good at it. I would find another IC for your kids because this one is not neutral. In addition, she seems want to pin blame on each parent because a child feels a certain way. Kids are thinking human beings. They are capable of having opinions even as young babies (ever try to feed your baby that second bite of the thing they just scrunched their face up for?) Teenagers especially have opinions and make up their own mind about things. No one is to blame because you DS15 feels betrayed by his mother. And no one is to blame is your DS17 wants to please his mother.

I am sorry that you feel so beaten up.


And it's hard to dance with a devil on your back
So shake him off
-- Shake It Out, Florence And The Machine

Posts: 17606 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: A better place :)
Crescita
Member
Member # 32616
Default  Posted: 5:27 PM, January 30th (Wednesday)

MC admonished us NOT to discuss the relationship out of session.

Better hurry up and book more sessions then

Seriously, find a new counselor. A good one will give you perspective and guidance, not admonishing, finger pointing, and restrictions on how to talk or feel. Also find a few review websites and share your experience. With peoples reluctance to seek counseling, nothing irks me more than a quack.


Posts: 3343 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: The Valley of the Sun
justanotherBH
Member
Member # 38021
Default  Posted: 6:19 PM, January 30th (Wednesday)

I'll go along with the counselor being an idiot. While the kids don't need to know the specifics of what happened (although it seems that your son already does by his own snooping) I think it's far more important to not lie to them.

Your STBXW will always be their mother. Period. She may be Satan incarnate, but she will also be their mom. But your kids need to know that you aren't a hypocrite and that you won't lie to them. Honesty is far more important.

And frankly, I want my kids to know that I will stand up for myself, and won't be anyone's doormat. And no counselor in the world is gonna nice that one out of me.


BH (me)-42
WW-39
DD12
DS8
EA DD#1 5/07
EA/PA DD#1 9/2/10
DD#2 4/2/11
DD#3 9/11
DD#4 12/26/12
12/31/13 divorced.

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: californy
dmari
Member
Member # 37215
Default  Posted: 6:41 PM, January 30th (Wednesday)

Find a new therapist yesterday

As everyone has already done, let me also reassure you that you are doing fine Please just let the bullshit you were given by the therapist just roll off your back.

Hang in there! You know you are doing a great job under the circumstances. Keep moving forward!! Hugs and support, dmari


Me (BS): 42 Children: DD 18, DS 15
Settled at mediation
Officially divorced ... SOON!

Posts: 2146 | Registered: Oct 2012
Chrysalis123
Member
Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 7:42 PM, January 30th (Wednesday)

Your counselor is wrong and misguided.

I undersatns how hurtful what was said is. Similar thing happened to me. Dig deep and trust yourself. Fire that counselor.


Don’t get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well. 

Posts: 2639 | Registered: Jan 2010
Kajem
Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 7:53 PM, January 30th (Wednesday)

Is this counselor for the kids?

If so, her main patient is the children. She should be their advocate, not WW's.

MC... if you are getting divorced, why are you in MC?


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 5014 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
Mousse242
Member
Member # 6330
Default  Posted: 7:58 PM, January 30th (Wednesday)

get a new counselor

Posts: 5473 | Registered: Jan 2005 | From: Chicago
KeepOnMovin
Member
Member # 38245
Default  Posted: 10:45 PM, January 30th (Wednesday)

A little background info.
A week after Dday#1, STBXW and I were ready to divorce. So we met with a Licensed Marriage and Family Therspist who specializes in children going through divorce. Wanted to do the right thing with respect to kids.

LMFT told us how difficult divorce is on kids. Our emotions were very 'raw' and if we started proceeding now she promised it would get really ugly. She said once we figure out what caused the failure and can recognize our culpability, we can make an unemotional decision whether to reconcile or divorce.

So we started MC with this person. Continued for 3 months until DDay#2 in Dec.. At that point Counselor actually suggested we call it quits because STBXW was lying to her, blamed me for problems, and continued to pursue relationships outside of the marriage.

So i told STBXW i wanted a divorce, and we stopped MC. Counselor even told me I earned my way out of the marriage, and STBXW would probably have 2-3 more relationship failures if she continued her behavior patterns.

So, even though i asked for divorce, I admit I thought STBXW would have a change of heart before we told the kids, but that obviously did not happen.

After New Year, Decided to go back to her for kids counseling since she is the specialist and knows our history. So, I was really surprised how the session went today. DS15 has been upset with his mom, and feels like she and DS17 ganged up on him over at her house. DS17 threatened physical harm to D15 because he wasn't showing mom the proper respect.

I wasn't expecting to hear that I'm holding my kids back from healing. . I'm actively working on detaching from STBXW so I can work on healing myself. Was feeling pretty good about my progress until I learned of the boys fighting at STBXW's. of course I was angry with her. The boys never fought until now.

Counselor agreed I worked my ass off for three months in MC. But it's over now and I understand that. Time to work on the kids.


Me: BH
Her: STBXWW
Married: 21 years
2 sons at home
1 son in college
Separated and proceeding with divorce.
Often it's the deepest pain which empowers you to grow into your highest self.

Posts: 295 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
Dreamboat
Member
Member # 10506
Default  Posted: 11:00 PM, January 30th (Wednesday)

LMFT told us how difficult divorce is on kids. Our emotions were very 'raw' and if we started proceeding now she promised it would get really ugly.

I may be wrong, but IMHO, she was setting you guys up for multi year counseling with HER no matter what happened.

Yes, D is difficult on kids. DUH!! You can open up an newspaper or magazine and read that. She wanted you and your WW to feel guilty so you would go back to her. And once dday 2 occurred, she covered her bases. But then agreed to see the kids -- how convenient. And now 2-3 weeks later she is again making you feel GUILTY. Why? So you will continue to see her and send the kids to her. I may be way off base, but I am just giving you my read on this so-called therapist.

If her therapy relies on making you feel guilty or shameful (and it sounds like she has played both you and WS) then she is not good for the kids. How is guilt and shame going to help a teenage work thru the destruction of their family?

Your kids, especially DS15, needs someone who can validate his feelings of anger and betrayal and then help him deal with that and accept his mother as she is. Guilt and shame have no place in DS15's healing.


And it's hard to dance with a devil on your back
So shake him off
-- Shake It Out, Florence And The Machine

Posts: 17606 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: A better place :)
whyisthismylife
New Member
Member # 34625
Default  Posted: 11:23 PM, January 30th (Wednesday)

I know it's overwhelming to look at switching counselors but I've seen a lot of them over the years and this one is what I call a career counselor....she has no end game really in plan....and she's looking at 3 boys she can hopefully add to her lifetime client list. Please shop around...you need someone for you. A GREAT counselor will tell you how long they expect treatment to take (assuming cooperation and hard work on the client's part)...this is a range, of course but the GOAL should always be to give you tools, help you implement them and support you getting in the new habit of using them and then withdrawal from your need of the counselor...not good job security for them but it is what a great one does.

And I am very sorry you are going through this. It's all hard enough as it is...


Me - BS 40
Him - WS 48
5 Kids - DD 23(His), DS 17(Hers), DS 15(Hers), DS 12(Ours), DD 4(Ours)
Married 12 Years, Together 15
DDay - 1/20/12
Hoping for happiness...
OW - supposed friend, my daycare client and 15 year old son's best friend'

Posts: 8 | Registered: Jan 2012
SBB
Member
Member # 35229
Default  Posted: 4:50 AM, January 31st (Thursday)

I completely fail to see how this is throwing your STBXW under the bus at all! It's not about her. It's about them, and you're right, it does suck and they don't deserve to have to go through this all.

^^THIS.

New counsellor. ASAP.

What a complete load of shit.

Unbelievable. Your children have their own minds. Instead of focussing on who's to blame for how they feel how about the counsellor does their job and helps them work through it.

Therapists are not perfect and many do not have the skills required to deal with something like this. Find one that is.

This makes me so mad - this is incompetence that causes so much damage.


Buzz- The word you are searching for is 'Space-Ranger.'
Woody- The word I'm searching for, I can't say, because there are Pre-school toys here.

Posts: 5533 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Australia
HIDINGFROMCRAZY
Member
Member # 27592
Default  Posted: 10:50 AM, January 31st (Thursday)

well, that may have set the stage, but your reaction makes it look like she's the bad guy and you're the victim.

That is the only thing she got right. Your wife, a cheater, is the bad guy and you were most definitely the victim. Your children, too, are collateral victims.

Find another counselor, pronto. Nobody needs this kind of "help".


Me: BS 58
Him: FWH - 60
Dday #1 - around Feb, 2007
Dday #2 - around Christmas, 2009
3 children - 30,26,23

I cannot prevent the Birds of Sorrow from passing over my head, but I can keep them from building a nest in my hair.


Posts: 470 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: GA
heartache101
Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 11:02 AM, January 31st (Thursday)

KeeponMoving
I think you need a new counselor and maybe the kids need one for themselves?
Look your DS15 doesn't approve of infidelity and his life is in total shambles because of it. So I think they have a right to be peed off and show the WS there is a reaction to their actions of infidelity kwim?
So they are learning how to cope with this and they need their own counselor JMO.
You are not to blame for his anger so don't let them pile that load of crap on you.
Stand strong let the children see you survive and be stronger and love life.
Good luck.


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3186 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
KeepOnMovin
Member
Member # 38245
Default  Posted: 2:11 PM, January 31st (Thursday)

Just wanted to say "thanks" to all who offered their view points. I feel pretty alone in all of this, and it helps to get things off of my chest and get some honest feedback.

I am going to look for another counselor, but not before letting this one know what i think of her work. Will cost me $125/hour, but it will be worth it.

thanks again!


Me: BH
Her: STBXWW
Married: 21 years
2 sons at home
1 son in college
Separated and proceeding with divorce.
Often it's the deepest pain which empowers you to grow into your highest self.

Posts: 295 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
trustagain
Member
Member # 16921
Default  Posted: 2:46 PM, January 31st (Thursday)

IMO your boys are old enough for a heart to heart- father to son chat. Not only is your DS15 having a difficult time with the D, but he is also in the mid-teens (which doesn't help either). You don't need to throw blame at your STBXW, you don't even need to tell them about the Affairs, but if they ask I feel you need to be as honest as you can, without making your STBXW out as the witch that she is.

I think your DS17 needs to know he needs to "lay off" his brother for a while. Even though their fighting is "normal" brother stuff, maybe he needs to be reminded that his brother is hurting and that as the older brother he needs to support him. I would also tell him that yes - his brother should respect his Mom.

For DS15 I would tell him that his Mom loves him and no matter what happened, she is still his Mom and he needs to respect her.

I would also tell your STBXW that for a little while maybe DS15 shouldn't be forced to go to her house. If he wished to great, but if he doesn't want to, let him have a little space right now.

I see your problem as two fold. On one hand you are dealing with normal teenage boy stuff. On the other hand you are dealing with a divorce.

I don't get paid a million dollars to be a counselor (and I am not) and yours shouldn't get a penny IMO, but sometimes we all need to step back, analyze the situation and think what is best for everyone. If your STXW wants any type of relationship with her son she needs to step back, accept that his is angry and upset and give him his space. His brother needs to do the same. Your DS15 needs to understand that everyone expects respect and being angry is ok, but he needs to do something with that anger rather than taking it out on everyone.

Just take it day by day. Keep the lines of communication open with them. Let them know that you are there anytime they need to talk. Your STBX should be doing the same thing.

Peace to you!

[This message edited by trustagain at 2:50 PM, January 31st (Thursday)]


WH - 48
BS (me) - 50
Son - 25
Son - 17
Dday #1 - 10/31/07
Dday #2 - 12/23/07
Dday #1,000,000 - 12/23/09 - found out EA was PA
Reconciling or at least trying. We have reconciled through the A, but he still doesn't get it when it comes to p

Posts: 4472 | Registered: Nov 2007
greenink99
Member
Member # 38160
Default  Posted: 3:15 PM, January 31st (Thursday)

KOM, don't waste your money to tell her off. Not worth it, imo. Clean slate sounds best. You need an advocate for your sons, someone who will validate and help him work through feelings of anger. I like my D15's IC because when we meet her she always asks if there's anything she & I need to talk about before meeting with D15. Put your energy into healing and getting your kids heading in the right direction. Not into proving a point with the IC.


me 39
him 42
M 21.5 yrs
2DD

S 6/29/12
DD 10/18/12
starting D summer 2013


Posts: 132 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: West Coast
myheadreallyhurt
Member
Member # 36424
Default  Posted: 4:18 PM, January 31st (Thursday)

So sorry. I agree that what the MC said was complete b.s.

I'll be the first to admit that I've told my son that multiple times. His dad left him, he's sad, he's angry, he wants to know what he did wrong. And I don't care what counseling rule I'm breaking my son will know he did nothing wrong and he didn't deserve this.


"See that no one repays another evil with evil, but always seek after that which is good for one another"

Posts: 133 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: Texas
KeepOnMovin
Member
Member # 38245
Default  Posted: 5:17 PM, January 31st (Thursday)

we all need to step back, analyze the situation and think what is best for everyone

^^This^^

trust, i pretty much agree with everything you wrote. I am doing my best to make sure the kids' needs are met first.

Green, I'm sure you are right. i guess i have a problem with closure. i'm really not the "gotta get the last word in" type of person, but i do think i need to let her know why i'm firing her. Maybe a letter would suffice. I would send an email, but that's billed at the 15 minutes minimum ($31.25).

$125 would probably be better spent on some new trail running shoes.


Me: BH
Her: STBXWW
Married: 21 years
2 sons at home
1 son in college
Separated and proceeding with divorce.
Often it's the deepest pain which empowers you to grow into your highest self.

Posts: 295 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
Nature_Girl
Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 5:30 PM, January 31st (Thursday)

Perhaps the best way to let her know why you fired her is to file a complaint with the state board that governs her practice.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9509 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
trustagain
Member
Member # 16921
Default  Posted: 8:18 AM, February 1st (Friday)

I am doing my best to make sure the kids' needs are met first.

That is great, but remember a happy Dad makes happy kids. Please take care of your needs as well.

Just keep telling the boys and even your youngest that you are there for them. You love them and that you will all get through this. Because that is the truth. You will get through this.


WH - 48
BS (me) - 50
Son - 25
Son - 17
Dday #1 - 10/31/07
Dday #2 - 12/23/07
Dday #1,000,000 - 12/23/09 - found out EA was PA
Reconciling or at least trying. We have reconciled through the A, but he still doesn't get it when it comes to p

Posts: 4472 | Registered: Nov 2007
Dreamboat
Member
Member # 10506
Default  Posted: 8:41 PM, February 1st (Friday)

I would modify this message a little bit:

For DS15 I would tell him that his Mom loves him and no matter what happened, she is still his Mom and he needs to respect her.

You need to tell DS15 that you expect him to always show his mother respect. Period. I think telling him that he needs to respect his mother is kinda telling him how he should feel. He may not feel respect for her at all times, but he needs to ALWAYS show her respect because she is his mother. Period.

That is kinda splitting hairs, but for an emotional 15 year old who also feels like nothing in life is under his control, this allows him to control how he feels. But also communicates the behavior that is expected of him.

I mean, I don't have to respect my boss. But I sure better show him respect or my ass is out of a job. Not he best analogy but the best I can come up with right now.


And it's hard to dance with a devil on your back
So shake him off
-- Shake It Out, Florence And The Machine

Posts: 17606 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: A better place :)
SouthernGal
Member
Member # 27315
Default  Posted: 7:31 AM, February 2nd (Saturday)

Add another "your counselor may be an 'expert' but your counselor is also an idiot" vote.

The counselor's words are not only inaccurate, but they are a dismissal of your son's thoughts and feelings.

Kids, particularly teens but even young children, have the ability to formulate their own views and opinions. Not everything they think and feel is a direct reflection of their parents' views, thoughts, feelings, or words.

Your counselor is full of shit.

What you said is the absolute truth. It does suck. It isn't fair. It isn't the kids' fault. And it most certainly is bullshit.

What is also bullshit is your counselor's stance and the reasoning behind that stance.

Your son found evidence of his mother having an affair. That is more than enough for him to have formed his own opinion from.

My daughter (SG2) discovered her dad's (SW) affair years before I found out about it. Oh sure he explained it all away to her (lied his ass off) and made her believe that she was just a silly child.

Turns out he introduced our daughter to his OW (well one of them at least) and to her daughter. We used to home school and the ex works in a very flexible office - so he would take SG2 to work with him. On those days he, SG2 and OW would have lunch together. He encouraged SG2 to be friends with the OW (they were friends on FB for a while).

Years later, my daughter is no longer 11. She's nearly 17 and a due to graduate high school in May. She has had a couple romantic relationships of her own and she can now look back and see the behaviours that she feels should have clued her in that her dad was cheating on me.

That has put a wedge between her and her dad. Not the fact that I have told her that the divorce sucks, that she is the only truly innocent victim in all of this mess, that she doesn't deserve this. All of that is truth.

She formed her own opinions of her dad and of me by watching how we've handled ourselves over the past 3 years since d-day.

She's a smart, independent young woman with her own opinions.

Your son is a smart, independent young man with his own opinions.

Your counselor is selling him short and she's actually cheating him out of being able to have his own thoughts, opinions and feelings on this matter.

In short - she is an idiot.


BS (Me) XWH (him) M nearly 16 yrs
1 DD (teens)
D-day #1 12/09, #2 2/10
Divorced 10/6/10

Posts: 3862 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: The Deep (Fried) South
KeepOnMovin
Member
Member # 38245
Default  Posted: 11:10 PM, February 6th (Wednesday)

So, I fired the counselor.

STBXWW not happy. First thing she texted me, "I think you want someone to say it is all my fault"

It's not that at all. I'm just not liking the direction this has been going.

Several hours later she texted that DS10 really needs to see that IC. And has been asking. Turns out this is actually true. (Wasn't sure she was capable of truth)

Seems like if the kids were the main concern, she would have written that before the whole make me feel guilty thing...


Me: BH
Her: STBXWW
Married: 21 years
2 sons at home
1 son in college
Separated and proceeding with divorce.
Often it's the deepest pain which empowers you to grow into your highest self.

Posts: 295 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
Nature_Girl
Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 1:27 AM, February 7th (Thursday)

I'm glad you fired her. Now please stay strong and find someone else to be a counselor for your kids. The one you just fired has an agenda. She should not be counseling your children.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9509 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
SBB
Member
Member # 35229
Default  Posted: 4:03 AM, February 7th (Thursday)

^^Ditto. I'd be looking for a childrens specialist - not a jack of all trades, master of none.


Buzz- The word you are searching for is 'Space-Ranger.'
Woody- The word I'm searching for, I can't say, because there are Pre-school toys here.

Posts: 5533 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Australia
Caligirl9566
New Member
Member # 38694
Default  Posted: 11:42 PM, April 25th (Thursday)

Hang in there, as someone said you will get through this.

My 15 yr old is not dealing with this in house separation very well. His grades have dropped and he's really quite and keeps to himself. My IC told me to just keep reassuring him that everything will be fine and I love him.

Good luck to you and sending big hugs!!!


Me/BS 46
Him/WH 51
Married 17yrs
DD 2/12/2013
R but I just don't know

Posts: 29 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Florida
damncutekitty
Member
Member # 5929
Default  Posted: 8:24 AM, April 26th (Friday)

Your counselor is a moron. Kids losing respect for the wayward parent is a normal consequence of cheating. Maybe she should try taking some responsibility for the damage she has caused to her children's lives.


Keep calm and carry on.

Posts: 49468 | Registered: Nov 2004 | From: Minneapolis
Heavy Sigh
Member
Member # 34243
Default  Posted: 9:30 AM, April 26th (Friday)

I doubt this will be helpful, but agree on the "show" respect rather than feel it - for now.

Tell your kids that one day when they're adults and married, they'll need their mother to babysit the kids when child care is closed, the baby has a fever and you're both exhausted and you need a nap, or when they want time together to keep their marriage strong, working on it every day, and not letting things slide.

So to just be nice to her now. Kind of like how really slimy rich people keep their kids speaking to them and showing respect - because they want to the cash.

They can work out the rest over a longer time. Just make sure to tell your sons not to take out their anger with their mother on future girlfriends or one-day wives. I have a daughter, and worry one day my daughter will be treated disrespectfully by a husband with anger issues and distrust that came from his relationship with a parent.

[This message edited by Heavy Sigh at 9:35 AM, April 26th (Friday)]


Posts: 1917 | Registered: Dec 2011
KeepOnMovin
Member
Member # 38245
Default  Posted: 11:54 AM, April 26th (Friday)

Wow! This is kind of an old-ish thread, but I think an update might be worthwhile if anybody is still following it.

I screwed up. I should have listened to the folks on SI rather than my crappy counselor. Here’s the background.

At the time of this thread, DS15 was really upset with his mom. I found out from his GF’s mother that he learned STBX was having an affair. He refused to spend any time with her and wouldn’t speak to her.

All of the SI folks and my IRL friends reinforced that I should respect his anger and his wishes NOT to be forced to spend time with STBX. Well, I was ‘moved’ by STBX’s crocodile tears and counselor at the time really pushed me to make him spend time with STBX and basically rug sweep the affair. The counselor openly advocated lying to DS15. Her rationale was, “is it really lying if you tell your child a shot won’t hurt or the medicine really doesn’t taste that bad?”

Well, denying what he knows is fucking lying. Well, I basically rugswept the infidelity. I didn’t respect DS15’s wishes by forcing him to spend time with STBX. I reinforced how much she loves him and he needs to show her respect.

How did this turn around and kick me in the gut? Well, my relationship with him has suffered. He was really P/A for a while and finally told me that I don’t listen to him, thus I don’t care about his feelings. Well, I do care for him, but I also understand how I did not respect his feelings.

Furthermore, STBX lied to him about a Christmas gift she received from OM. She told him it was from a gay friend of hers and there is no OM. She has befriended DS15’s GF and GF’s mom, to help align him with her (whereas before she didn’t approve of the relationship). And now, she offered to give him her jeep when he turns 16. (it was the Jeep I bought her for her 40th birthday.)

Sometimes taking the high road can be lonely. Hope it's the right thing to do in the end.

Ever seen the quote, “Never lie to someone who trusts you, and never trust someone who lies to you.”? Know it and live it. No, the kids don’t need to know the details and they don’t need to be burdened with ‘adult issues’. But please, DO respect their feelings and be truthful.


Me: BH
Her: STBXWW
Married: 21 years
2 sons at home
1 son in college
Separated and proceeding with divorce.
Often it's the deepest pain which empowers you to grow into your highest self.

Posts: 295 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
Topic Posts: 47