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Reconciliation
User Topic: The Whys, Excuses, and Explanations
sri624
Member
Member # 33956
Default  Posted: 11:14 PM, February 9th (Saturday)

the whys, excuses, and explanations for lying, cheating, and betraying your spouse is just crap, in my opinion. (i'm venting here)....but this is how i feel. i have been through hell and back with my husband. and you know initially, i needed to understand why he did this...i wanted an explanation...anything.

was it me? was he unhappy? was the marriage bad? was the sex not good? was she prettier than me? better body, maybe? better sex? did we not communicate? well, he had a lot of issues with his dad...was that it? well, he never felt like he was loved? he never got enough attention? when i was pregnant, he felt left out? not enough attention? what could i have done better? did i not listen to him? talk about his job enough? stress? not happy? we're fighting too much? he is overwhelmed about being a new dad? it was his childhood? his dad abandoned the family? it was how he was raised? his friends are a bad influence?

and the list goes on and on, and on....and you know what? after all the answers that i was given....to the answer to these questions....some were not answered...but that doesnt matter anymore....what i have learned is that IT IS ALL A BUNCH OF CRAP!

THE BOTTOM line is that my husband cheated on me....because he wanted to do it....PERIOD. now, i can sit here and go on all forever about why he did it...he needs ic, he needs help....he needs this and that to figure out the why.....blah, blah, blah....he cheated becasue he wanted to. and here is the dirty truth:

1. the sex was not bad...he liked it, that is why he kept doing it. i have stopped kidding myself on this...and refuse to believe for one minute that my husband didnt like it. of course he liked it. he got excited about what he saw, got an erection, and had an orgasm...over and over again. i will not accept bullsit about this.

2. he didnt wear a condom all the time...of course not. it felt too good. i refuse to make excuses about that too. he knew exactly what he was doing...and made the decion that the sex was so good that he wanted to feel flesh on flesh....he did that.

3. sure he is broken and has a lot of issues...but he knew what he was doing. even if the answer to all the questions that i listed out was yes...he still could have made the decision not to cheat. he plotted, schemed, and sought out other women because that is what he wanted to do.

4. he abused substances becasue he liked the party lifestyle...partying, cheating, drugs and alcohol all went along with the party lifestyle...and he had fun doing it...make no mistake about it.

5. guilt? to me, that is crap...he didnt feel guilt when he was cheating...he kept doing it. that is a load of crap.

so...now fast forward to now....we are trying to r...and he is doing everyhting he needs to do to reestablish trust...he's in rehab, fully transparent, stopped drinking, in mc....all friends gone...he seems completely committed to our marriage....but it is still early. it is going to take a longtime to repair the marriage...and he knows that.

but what has helped me is that i have STOPPED accepting excuses, the whys, and the explanations. i have come to realize that they will never make me feel better. never. he did that. he did all the horrible things because it was exactly what he wanted to do. and he would have kept doing it until he got busted. it hurts to write that...but it is the truth! and once and for all, that is all i want to deal with. i do not want to play the "why game" anymore!

he was a jerk, and a monster who was acting like an immature college kid at 40...thinking he could "get away with it."

bottom line is that i put his ass out of this house and did a complete 180...not even a 180 really...i packed up all his shit and put it outside. and we were separated for 3 months. he could come back until decided to make some serious changes in his life....and respected the boundaries that i set for my own emotional safety. and the first order of business was rehab...the second was complete access to his phone records...the on line bills that show the call detail. i wasnt interested in having access to this physical phone...no way...i wanted the bill...and i wanted to go back as long as i wanted to see everything. and that is exactly what i did.

and it was all bad. but i needed to know the truth before i could do anything. and as we move forward through this reconcilation process....i have come to accept that none of the whys, excuses, and explanations mean shit.

he needs to own what he did. admit that he made some horrific mistakes, and take full and complete responsibility for what he WANTED to do. dont blame anything, or anyone...dont blame the drugs, dont blame the booze, dont blame friends....the marriage....nothing....he did that because it was exactly what he wanted to do.

as much as it hurt me...the truth is what i needed. so when he said what he said below the other day, i finally felt like we were making some progress...i take it day by day, you know?

after i told him that i felt like a fool, and how hurt i was for all his lies...he said that. now the healing can continue....

"i know i have hurt you...terribly. i dont want to say i am sorry anymore. you already know that. what i want to do is show you with my consistent actions of honest behavior that i am a changed man. one thing i want to do is take complete responsility for what i have done. there is nothing that justifies why i did what i did. nothing. it was all foul. i dont want to lose you or our family, and i will do whatever it takes...what ever it takes. and i know it will take a long time to regain your trust. i hope that you see me being in rehab, our mc, and me being fully transparent with you as actions that show i want to change."

that is what i needed him to say. stop making excuses and bullshitting me. just be accountable. you cheated, and kept doing it because you liked it, and thouhgt you could get away with it....you did that. now, show me that you DESERVE to be with me.

you know?


BS (41):(Former Doormat)
WS (39):(Busted Cheater)
Married: 10 years, 3 kids under 5
DD1: 10/11 PA/EA with pilates instructor/former stripper.
DD2: 10/12 False r, cheating with other women, online dating,Substance abuse issues.
Attempting R in bi

Posts: 934 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: Alabama
HeartInADustpan
Member
Member # 38341
Default  Posted: 11:19 PM, February 9th (Saturday)

Totally get it.

but what has helped me is that i have STOPPED accepting excuses, the whys, and the explanations. i have come to realize that they will never make me feel better. never. he did that. he did all the horrible things because it was exactly what he wanted to do. and he would have kept doing it until he got busted. it hurts to write that...but it is the truth! and once and for all, that is all i want to deal with. i do not want to play the "why game" anymore!

God, I cannot wait until my mind gets to that point in the process. I hate the why game. I logically know nothing can be gained, but feel like I'd go mad if I don't "know."


Just call me Heart. :)
Reconciling
"If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything" ~Mark Twain

Posts: 379 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: St. Louis
kansas1968
Member
Member # 32214
Default  Posted: 11:26 PM, February 9th (Saturday)

I think the realization that you have come too is the hardest thing for waywards and betrayed spouses to come to terms with.
Waywards do not want to think of themselves that way, and neither do their betrayed spouses.

The pain of the betrayal makes you want to rationalize it and blame it on anything but the real truth.

It was a selfish, self-serving, event, with no thought to anyone elses feelings. It puts everyone in harms way, and they just don't care. It is an insanity that they hate to look at, and we as betrayed spouses don't know if we can love someone who truly behaved that way.

There were a lot of things going on in our marriage and in my husbands life also, but neverthless, he did a terrible thing, to me and to himself. He still has a hard time coming to terms with that, but I see it as you do, and am watching him build himself into a better human that I can truly love.

Long process, but we are getting there. Good insights, thanks for the post. K


Me - BS
Him - FWS
DD - December 14, 2010
Married 43 years 1/14/2011
Affair lasted 7+ years
Affair had been over for 2 years before I found out. OW sent me a letter.

Posts: 1304 | Registered: May 2011 | From: Kansas
BaxtersBFF
Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 11:34 PM, February 9th (Saturday)

Each situation is unique, yet there are so many similarities. To paint it all the same for every situation is not realistic, yet when questions are asked, they are going to be answered based on that individuals experiences and those experiences may or may not apply.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6097 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
sri624
Member
Member # 33956
Default  Posted: 11:38 PM, February 9th (Saturday)

thanks for the replies. one thing that i also wanted to add...and it is very important.

he knew all of the risks....he knew that it would hurt me, he knew that his behavior could give me a disease...even kill me...he knew that it could destroy the family, that it would be humiliating if caught...he knew all the risks....and he also knew very, very, very well that if i ever found out, he would just break my heart.

but he did it anyway...he knew exactly what he was doing. but felt at the time that it was WORTH the risk..and he did that.

it was a shitty thing to do. that's it.

forget about all the whys, excuses, and explanations...it will not make me feel any better.

if anything...it is just another form of rugsweeping...even if some bad thing happend to him as a kid...or the drs said he had some mental problem....he still knew what he was doing...and did what he wanted...knowing all the risks.

the "drs diagnosis", childhood trauma, or even additions dont make it any better...doesnt mean a damn thing anymore in my book.

you still did it.


BS (41):(Former Doormat)
WS (39):(Busted Cheater)
Married: 10 years, 3 kids under 5
DD1: 10/11 PA/EA with pilates instructor/former stripper.
DD2: 10/12 False r, cheating with other women, online dating,Substance abuse issues.
Attempting R in bi

Posts: 934 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: Alabama
sri624
Member
Member # 33956
Default  Posted: 11:44 PM, February 9th (Saturday)

thanks baxter...but the answers to the questions in the end mean nothing..at least not for me. it doesnt make the pain any less....nope. in the beginning...sure it made me feel better to think there was a good "why." and there is not.

when i started to accept that, then i could move forward.

he did what he did because he liked it, got away with it..adn thought he could contunue until he got busted.

plain and simple.

the waywards need to just own that....stopped with the excuses...which to me is just trying to weasel out of the truth again...and just be accountable.

someone on here...a wise SIer told me "you cant make sense out of nonsense." and that is so true. cheating is nonsense. and i am going to stop trying to "understand" why he did it.


BS (41):(Former Doormat)
WS (39):(Busted Cheater)
Married: 10 years, 3 kids under 5
DD1: 10/11 PA/EA with pilates instructor/former stripper.
DD2: 10/12 False r, cheating with other women, online dating,Substance abuse issues.
Attempting R in bi

Posts: 934 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: Alabama
BaxtersBFF
Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 11:45 PM, February 9th (Saturday)

the waywards need to just own that....stopped with the excuses...which to me is just trying to weasel out of the truth again...and just be accountable.

This fits your situation. It doesn't fit others. To make a blanket statement like this to the WS here is totally negating the shit they are trying to work through.

That's where the statement that "each situation is unique, but similar" comes into play.

ETA - adding that I think it is great that you've realized this about your own WH. Sometimes it is just that.

[This message edited by BaxtersBFF at 11:50 PM, February 9th (Saturday)]


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6097 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
Irolnyatbest
Member
Member # 37467
Default  Posted: 12:01 AM, February 10th (Sunday)

"i know i have hurt you...terribly. i dont want to say i am sorry anymore. you already know that. what i want to do is show you with my consistent actions of honest behavior that i am a changed man. one thing i want to do is take complete responsility for what i have done. there is nothing that justifies why i did what i did. nothing. it was all foul. i dont want to lose you or our family, and i will do whatever it takes...what ever it takes. and i know it will take a long time to regain your trust. i hope that you see me being in rehab, our mc, and me being fully transparent with you as actions that show i want to change."

This is what I need to hear as we'll excuses are bullshit. They change nothing. They all made choices and need to own their actions and the actions to repair the damages


BS-29
WH-37
DDay 1 02/03/11 EA OW1 (Rugswept)
Dday 2 03/18/12 2 0234 Caught IN THE ACT-EA/PA OW2
WH 1st attempt to R was 06/12.
DDay 3 08/17/12 caught out again with OW2
Living separately, Attempting to truly R
5/5/13 he ended our M again...&#

Posts: 111 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Missouri
sri624
Member
Member # 33956
Default  Posted: 12:15 AM, February 10th (Sunday)

and have you noticed that over time...it always seems to be more than one why, excuse or explanation? and it can vary. it may have been all of the those things...or maybe just one thing...but none of them make a bit of difference in the end.

and you know what? i know this because when i was given a why, excuse or explanation...for a while i felt "better." i did. but i was kidding myself..because deep down...and you know...the times where you are really honest with yourself...like in the car, or shower, or when you are lying in bed about to go to sleep...and cant stop thinking about all of this...it is during this time...that you know in your GUT that it is all BS. you just know. but because we love them, and want to work it out, and keep the marriage...we "accept" the why, excuse, and explanation. that is what i did. and i never felt good about it...not for long.

and pretty soon, i was back to feeling terrible...and asking all the same questions again. almost like i thought he could say it again, or give me another why, excuse, or explanation that would make me feel better this time.

and it never did. never. i always knew in my heart that he had a choice. kind of like when i used to pretend to myself that it was "just sex...and not that good." yeah right. it was good...it certainly wasnt that bad. he kept going back. you know?

my truth came when i finally accepted that there wasnt a "why", "excuse", or "explanation" in the world that would ever, and i mean ever make me feel any better about what he did. not even a "note from the dr."


BS (41):(Former Doormat)
WS (39):(Busted Cheater)
Married: 10 years, 3 kids under 5
DD1: 10/11 PA/EA with pilates instructor/former stripper.
DD2: 10/12 False r, cheating with other women, online dating,Substance abuse issues.
Attempting R in bi

Posts: 934 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: Alabama
Jono
Member
Member # 8099
Default  Posted: 12:52 AM, February 10th (Sunday)

Hi sri624 – you have hit the nail on the head which is very hard for some to swallow. People choose to have affairs! Simple.

Undoubtedly a myriad of varied issues in the background will have created the desire to stray. These may have resulted from the state of the marriage, something unbalanced in the background, narcissism or just plain selfishness – looking after number one at any cost.

In the initial stages after discovery we try to find meaning as to why we were betrayed. Often we feel like it was our fault – maybe we did something wrong or possibly we didn’t do something that we should have. Then we realise that the affair wasn’t about us and we displace our anger and frustration largely onto the OP. That provides a safety valve of sorts that gives us the respite to try and rebuild bridges with our spouse.

Finally the realisation comes that it wasn’t the OP luring our spouse away – sure he or she also decided to enter the toxic relationship. It was our spouse who made the conscious decision to abandon their oath and have an affair. They could have tried to meaningfully address any marital imbalances, or made their desires known in such a way that they could have been addressed in the marriage or at least brought to a head so that the way forward could have been determined within the confines of the relationship. But no they chose to go outside the principal relationship. The whys and wherefores need to be understood and addressed after the event and during that reconciliation process, but entering in to an affair was not an innocent or chance happening that our WS just happened to get dragged along in. It was very conscious and deliberate decision and one probably not made on the spot but after a great deal of consideration.

That doesn’t make things easy but there is nothing to be gained in trying to exonerate our WS for that decision!


Posts: 468 | Registered: Sep 2005
Fidelia
Member
Member # 38345
Default  Posted: 12:57 AM, February 10th (Sunday)

The whys might help me sympathize a little, but I agree that at the end of the day the WS made choices, selfish choices.

But I do think it is important for us as a couple to know the whys. For me, the whys are about him working through his boundary issues and finding his vulnerabilities to he can guard against them. To help us as a couple to recognise danger points and be able to talk openly.


Me: BW 36
Him: WH 36 (randomusername)

"lift your drooping hands and strengthen your weak knees, and make straight paths for your feet, so that what is lame may not be put out of joint, but rather be healed" Heb12v13

"Oh God give me


Posts: 296 | Registered: Feb 2013
doesitgetbetter
Member
Member # 18429
Default  Posted: 2:15 AM, February 10th (Sunday)

IMO, the why's do matter. You can't fix what you don't know is broken. I agree that there will never be a why that makes a BS feel any better, hands down. IMO, having a WS who knows they have issues and flaws and is willing to figure out those flaws and fix them.... that is very valuable and goes a long way in helping repair the M that they have ruined. Doing the work to get to the weakness and working on it is definitely not rug sweeping. If one chooses to avoid any responsibility in their M and focus solely on fixing their issues, then yes, that is rug sweeping. But fixing yourself and working on your M isn't rug sweeping and I'm not sure how it could be.

And definitely not every WS has an A because they like it and they can and that's it. I happen to know that there are many people who will actually punish themself with an A. Some have risky sex as a way to get a disease so they can "kill" themself without having to be messy about it. Doesn't sound fun and exciting to me. Some have A's because they are cowards and can't end their M so they want the BS to do it after DDay. And lots and lots of other un-fun reasons.

It sounds like you might be having a bad day, and I really am sorry you are in this place. Vent away, and may tomorrow bring you more peace. (((Sri)))


DDay - Dec '07
Me - BS
Him - FWS
Us - Committed
May 18, 2010 - I forgave him fully!
"Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction." Isaiah 48:10

Posts: 3859 | Registered: Feb 2008
ItsaClimb
Member
Member # 37107
Default  Posted: 3:00 AM, February 10th (Sunday)

Great post!

I think the Whys are important for the WS to work out, for themselves, to help fix their brokenness if that is what they are inclined to do.

BUT as far as I am concerned I couldn't care less WHY he did it. The bottom line is he did it. He valued sleeping with his ho-worker more than he valued me. He chose her. That's it. No explanations will alter that fact that HE PICKED HER. He went back more than 40 times, he slept all night in her bed more than 40 times, he fucked her senseless more than 40 times. Why? Because he liked it.


BS 46
Together 29 yrs, M 25 years
2 daughters 24yo(married with a brand new little daughter) & 19yo
D-Day 18 Aug 2012
6mth EA lead to 4mth PA with CO-W. I found out 8 1/2 yrs later

Posts: 946 | Registered: Oct 2012
laney57
Member
Member # 35617
Default  Posted: 7:13 AM, February 10th (Sunday)

Thank you sri624,
Understand everyones situation is different, but this is the kick in the butt that I need. It gives me much to think about Take care


Me - BS, 43
Him - WH, 45
Married - 22 years
D-Day - 05/12/2012
Trying to find me.
Gotta do this, but I'm broken - headed for divorce - 02/20
Hell if I know - 02/24
INS 07/2013 Divorcing

Posts: 226 | Registered: May 2012 | From: KY
0115
Member
Member # 31740
Default  Posted: 8:39 AM, February 10th (Sunday)

I firmly believe in knowing the why but you are spot on on this...

Knowing the why doesn't make it any less painful. This is SO TRUE.

I think in my case it has even increased the confusion and made it harder to heal but we would have never made it to where we are without it and we are in a good place.

Infidelity sucks!


BS (me) 49
FWH 49 newbeg2011
Married 29 years
Very Long LTA
DD 01/15/11-6/30/11
The hard work is done...let the healing begin.

Posts: 1003 | Registered: Apr 2011
sri624
Member
Member # 33956
Default  Posted: 10:40 AM, February 10th (Sunday)

You know, i am actually having a better day than i have had in a while...even with him. Why?? Because i am accepting that his "why" is irrelevant when it comes to the pain i feel. It wont make me feel better. Like some of you said...the "why" can help him because we all know that theyare screwed up...let him get some "help" for that as mine is. But me...no way do i feel better at all.

I remember watching oprah interview bill clinton long after that monica fiasco...and she asked him "why did you do that?" And he said..."Because i could." And she applauded him for being brutally honest. "Because he could, and because he wanted to...and because he like it and didnt think he would get caught." Does he have a "bunch of issues?" I bet he does...may need to see a shrink, maybe he didnt get enough love as a kid...but he still did that.

I remember my mom years ago talking to me about men...she is so wise. But of course at the time i was naive about cheating...i just was. But she was not. I remember asking her if all men cheat. She said..."No, they dont. It just depends on if he is 'that kind of guy'." Now..i really think about that..."That kind of guy..." My husband IS "that kind of guy." This applies to women as well.

You are either a cheater or not. You are the type of person to lie like this, or you are not.

It IS that black and white for me now. There is no in between. The "in-between" is the whys, excuses, and explanations.". You did that because you are "that" kind of person.

Now...i think anybody can change their behavior. If they really want to. But they still are who they are. They can go to ic, get help, work through those feelings of abandonment, addictions, low self esteem, "i hate myself" issues...but in the end they are still a cheater...and that doesnt make me feel any better.

I would now rather be with my husband knowing the ugly truth. He's'a cheater and knew exactly what he was doing. NO PASSES for anything. You are who you are. Glad your getting help but i know what i am dealing with. The continued trustworthy actions are the only thing keeping the marriage intact. I already "heard" his reasons and he doesnt get a lollipop for telling me his "issues." Show me. That's'it.

He might as well keep all that other crap to himself because i already KNOW "what kind of a guy he is." You know?


BS (41):(Former Doormat)
WS (39):(Busted Cheater)
Married: 10 years, 3 kids under 5
DD1: 10/11 PA/EA with pilates instructor/former stripper.
DD2: 10/12 False r, cheating with other women, online dating,Substance abuse issues.
Attempting R in bi

Posts: 934 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: Alabama
Beyondbetrayal
Member
Member # 37747
Default  Posted: 11:29 AM, February 10th (Sunday)

You are so right. People do things because they choose to. Period. My WW has told me over and over it was her broken insatiable inner child who couldn't get enough attention that caused it to happen. No. She did it. Like i told the IC, she and her inner child are one and the same. They are not two separate people. And she chose to do it. She says she didn't think of the consequences. Not once? Bullshit. She chose to cheat on me. That's it period. The reasons might have seemed important in the beginning but they were definitely and still are a form of rugsweeping. There is no good reason to have an A. Just admit you did it because you wanted to and be done.


Me: BS 45
Her: WS 46
Married 19 years
DDay: 10/9/2012

Posts: 279 | Registered: Dec 2012
sailorgirl
Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 11:57 AM, February 10th (Sunday)

sri624,
I've been crying off and on all day because your post hit such a nerve. And everyone else's posts who said the whys don't matter.

I'm only one month past d-day and I'm still searching for that why that makes it so WH can still be the guy I thought he was. But there is no such thing. He is a cheater. The one quality I wanted most in my husband is lacking.

How can I stay with him? How can I tell my three innocent children who adore him that we're getting divorced? How can I throw away 12 honestly wonderful years? WH was a terrific husband and dad until the A.

i always knew in my heart that he had a choice. kind of like when i used to pretend to myself that it was "just sex...and not that good." yeah right. it was good...it certainly wasnt that bad. he kept going back. you know?

That's another super confusing thing. I believe WH on the details of the sex and it was bad bad bad. Silent, no foreplay, missionary every time, and he had to masturbate to get hard. Never tender, never intimate, never passionate, never enjoying her body. He had to think of other things and go as fast as possible to come. He felt horrible before, during and after.

But he must have wanted that because he kept going back. How could he want that when he had me at home (our sex life is the complete opposite what he had with OW)?

He says there was no ego boost, just felt worse and worse about himself. There was no sense of relief or high. He hated the sneaking and lying. He was not attracted to OW, and there was nothing interesting or appealing about her. She spend 80% of their time crying, accusing, begging, needing. I have never seen my WH as abjectly miserable as he was when he had been with her (he was having suicidal thoughts).

So, did he do it because he liked it and he wanted to?

I am lost.


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
boontje
Member
Member # 33247
Default  Posted: 12:04 PM, February 10th (Sunday)

Because i am accepting that his "why" is irrelevant when it comes to the pain i feel. It wont make me feel better. Like some of you said...the "why" can help him because we all know that theyare screwed up...let him get some "help" for that as mine is. But me...no way do i feel better at all.

Sounds like you have come to a place of acceptance of what your WH did, and that is great to be in that place. However, for me, acceptance is one thing, but the WHY is an important part of the healing process, for me and especially my H. The way I see it is, if he can't figure out all the "stuff" that led him down this path, and continued to direct his decision making, both during his insanity period, and the nearly 18 months after dday, when he was saying he wanted R, but kept making choices that showed otherwise, we will be in the exact same place sometime in the future.
What happens when life throws him a new challenge and he reverts back to his old coping mechanisms? To me, this is exactly why he needs to figure out his why, so he doesn't repeat old behaviors.
I agree that his why can't take away the pain you feel right now. Nothing they can say to us will ever make the pain we feel right, if that makes any sense. Thanks for sharing your perspective. ((sri))


Me: BS
Dday: June 2011
Working on R, one day at a time

The best way to find out if you can trust somebody is to trust them.”
― Ernest Hemingway



Posts: 934 | Registered: Aug 2011
SorrowBhindSmile
Member
Member # 38139
Default  Posted: 12:05 PM, February 10th (Sunday)

this whole post really resonates with me. I am struggling with the why's and how could you's...but at the end of the day, when the smoke clears, the simple fact is...he cheated. there were a million other choices he could have made. but he made the one that would destroy everything. Why? because he could. because she stroked his ego. because she made him feel wanted. boo-fucking-hoo. are you going to screw everyone that strokes your ego? Give me a break. you are grown up.

So now, i struggle every single day with the fact that i have to accept the fact that there is no why that will satisfy me. Sure, it will help HIM heal. He will know why he did what he did so he wont do it again. Sure, it will help ME knowing why, because it helps answer the questions that need answering.

but at the end of the day...i have to decide if i can accept the fact that he did what he did because he wanted to. because he made a choice to. I have to decide of i can accept the fact that I meant so little to him that he chose someone else over me.


Me: BW
Him: WH
OW: My former "dear friend"/neighbor
Married 20+
Kids: 3
D-Day 12/2012
Committed to R 7/8/2013
"Believe in yourself and all that you are. Know that there is something inside you that is greater than any obstacle"

Posts: 357 | Registered: Jan 2013
Bikingguy
Member
Member # 38103
Default  Posted: 12:09 PM, February 10th (Sunday)

Thank you sr1624,

I hope this doesn't sound terrible but I originally did not read your post as it was really long. That was my mistake. You have summed up many of my thought - thought that are hard to write.
My biggest struggle is my FWW A does not fit any of the molds for a LTA. As an engineer I rationalize everything and for the life of me I cannot figure this out. However you are right, FWW did it because she enjoyed it.


Me: BH, 44
Her: WW, 43
D day. January 12, 2013

Posts: 670 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Socal
heartbroken2012
Member
Member # 38089
Default  Posted: 12:17 PM, February 10th (Sunday)

Sri624, this is a great post. Im not at your stage...I am still accepting the excuses, and lies about it being crap sex and that it was just sex. And I am still thinking it was something I did, but you post spoke to me and deep down I know the same things you said....the sex wasn't bad, he liked it, he knew what he was doing, he knew it would hurt me, and he is a total bastard for doing it. Sometimes like in the shower, or drive to work, or right before bed I think about it all. It never goes away and those times are the hardest, because I know all the things you said.

And in my mind my WH is a cheater and will always be a cheater.


BS(Me) - 32
WS(HUbbie) - 40
OW - 44 (a ugly, old, white trash horse faced Coworker)
Affair was 2 months long
3 kids - 5yr old, and twins 8 months
Dday - 12/25/12 (lots of signs before I should have seen)

Posts: 549 | Registered: Jan 2013
realitybites
Member
Member # 6908
Default  Posted: 12:43 PM, February 10th (Sunday)

I can remember back in the day when we were at one of our first MC sessions and our then T said pretty much what you just said when I was screaming for the WHY?

He turned to me with my WS in the room and said "because he wanted to and he could".

I remember I could not wrap my head around such a simple statement for a long time....but it finally did just become about that....because he wanted to and he could. The FOO issues, the selfishness, the low self esteem, etc.... yeah all play a part.

But guess what? I had a shitty childhood. I had crappy things happen to me, there is a long list. But I chose not to go down that road.

So yes...in my sitch only...I agree with you. He wanted to and he could get away with it.


Posts: 5632 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: florida
painpaingoaway
Member
Member # 27196
Default  Posted: 1:13 PM, February 10th (Sunday)

Oh Sri, I agree 100%. I have never given a damn about his 'why'. I could care less. As far as I'm concerned, it's all excuses, blame shifting, and complete bullshit....and, bottom line, it's HIS bullshit to deal with, not mine.

Why? As other have said, 'because he could, he had an opportunity, and believed he could get away with it'.

As far as the character flaw, lack of morals, or whatever it is that allows people to engage in behavior that they know is wrong, well, that is his problem. He can work on it, or not. I have absolutely NO control over that. I would hope that he would, but let's all face it, we really have no way to truly know what is in the heart of another person. What I care about is his behavior. SHOW ME your new improved self. Don't insult me me by attempting to explain 'why'. I don't give a rats ass what your 'why' is.


me BS female 56/him WS 59
Married 33 years
D-day July 09/he gave me his slut's STD
Watch my movie: "My wayward husband's adventures in STD land":
Episode 1: youtu.be/9Jv0-d_CdYc
Episode 2: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tz822H82Gk

Posts: 7056 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Coastal South
sri624
Member
Member # 33956
Default  Posted: 2:44 PM, February 10th (Sunday)

thanks for the posts....it is really good to share my feelings...and "acceptance." my husband told me i think for the first time some other "truths" about his cheating...and you know what? i accept this much better than the whys, excuses and explanations. i do. it is the cold, hard, ugly truth. see..i wasnt ready to accept this kind of truth...i just wasnt. now i am.

he said this in mc:

"there is no justification that i want to give anymore. i own that behavior. but to share what was in my mind....i will do that...it was all foul. i wanted to be out there fucking, hanging out, hanging with my friends, getting high. i liked the variety. and i knew that in order to keep getting the sex on the side, i would have to lie and tell the women what they wanted to hear so that i could get the sex. i liked the fact that she had a nice body and was into working out like me. i liked that she wanted me...that everyone else at the gym wanted her, but she liked me. i lied about being married becasue i knew that it would be easier. with the other woman, i told her the truth about being married, becasue she had a man too..and it worked for both of us. i liked having a place i could go to when we were fighting because i didnt want to take any responsibiltiy or deal with the problems i created at home. i liked doing drugs...and doing all of my sexual, nasty fantasies with other women when high or intoxicated. it is all foul..all terrible...but it is what i wanted to do at the time. and i regret that i caused so much pain. it is only until i lost everything that i made the decision to get some help. it was not you at all. i blamed you for everything because i didnt want to be accountable. this is all my bullshit. i dont want to live that life anymore. i know what i have and i dont want to lose it. i also know that i will not get another chance."

so, that is what he told me. and that is the truth. all bad, all ugly. doesnt it all sound horrific? wow. but you know....i am sure it was even worse than that, you know? i know enough of the truth.

that is why the "whys" dont matter to me...at all.

and you know what else? deep, deep down in my heart...i have accpeted something else. now this is hard, but it is true.

you see.....my husband changing his life is a good thing. he needed to in order to be with me. but what i also "accept" is BECAUSE he is "that kind of guy"....i know that he is capable of cheating again. you know what i mean? now, i am gone if that happens...but the truth is that i will never say that he wont do that again. i hope that he doesnt...i hope that he learned his lesson...i truly do, but i know what he is capable of. i am not going to spend my time or marrige worrying about whether or not he will do it again.....that is my goal. i have no control over that. like i have learned...he does what he wants to do. and i know that all the therapy in the world wont make a
difference at all if he has it in his mind that he wants to cheat.

kinda like a drug addict just getting out of rehab for 3 months....he knows all about the damage it creates, the broken home, the family pain, the risk to their lives, the money issues...you name it...they know all of that...and what do a lot of them do soon after they "graduate" from rehab....they relapse. they choose to get high because they want to. yes, they are sick...but they are still accountable...and like getting high. you give them all the therapy in the world in rehab...and "tools" they need to resist the temptation, and they still screw up.

same with cheaters. just like an addict. i hear all the whys, excuses and explanations...but damn...JUST SAY NO!


BS (41):(Former Doormat)
WS (39):(Busted Cheater)
Married: 10 years, 3 kids under 5
DD1: 10/11 PA/EA with pilates instructor/former stripper.
DD2: 10/12 False r, cheating with other women, online dating,Substance abuse issues.
Attempting R in bi

Posts: 934 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: Alabama
RidingHealingRd
Member
Member # 33867
Default  Posted: 3:18 PM, February 10th (Sunday)

he did what he did because he liked it, got away with it..and thought he could continue until he got busted.

^^^This 100%

This is exactly why I never went through a litany of questions to try and figure out why he cheated. He did it because he wanted to, could, and thought he would never get caught. Period. His poor moral character allowed him to move forward with ease and without guilt.

show me that you DESERVE to be with me.

I am so glad that you have finally come to this realization. Hold firm in this belief (because it is true). My WH knows that to remain in my life he must walk the walk daily or as you put it: show me that he deserves to be with me.


ME: 54 BS
HIM: 61 WH
Married: 28 years
D'Day: 10/29/10
in R 3.5 years and it's working but he is putting 200% into it (as he should) to make it right again.

The truth hurts, but I have never seen it cause the pain that lies do.


Posts: 2109 | Registered: Nov 2011
sri624
Member
Member # 33956
Default  Posted: 3:39 PM, February 10th (Sunday)

yes, i am there....accepting the truth...accepting that he has no moral compass. and at this point, just show me that you want to be a better man by your actions. you show me that you deserve to remain married to me by:

1. just dont do anything stupid. you already know what that is. i am not playing that "boundary game." you know what is right and what is wrong. dont act like you dont know. if you cant do or say it in front of me, dont do it. period.

2. stop saying i am sorry. you said that before and still cheated. just do what you need to do. act sorry by not lying about anything or telling me "why."

3. be transparent everyday, no exceptions. i dont need you to tell me i can look in your phone. or that you have nothing to hide. i will check when i want to if i feel like it. as a matter of fact, i should be able to answer that damn phone too. what is wrong with that? nothing. phone record access is a must. your call detail needs to be an open book.

4. you know what being a good husband means. lets not play games. you're 40. keep your ass at home with me and our baby. period. a married man has no business going out to no damn club/bar. for what? there aint nothing good for no married man at a bar. period. women , alcohol and drugs. you are not in college, grow up.

5. stay clean and sober. period. no shortcuts. just stop.

6. fire all of your loser friends. most arent married anyway, and you dont need to be hanging out with a bunch of single guys anyway.

7. this house is not the "party spot." this is our home. keep your bullshit out of this house while we raise this baby.

8. stay off the internet sites. get a life. you will get caught, and it is stupid anyway. grow up.

9. you dont have any business being friends with women. no woman should be calling you, you shouldnt be having coffee with any woman, or spending any time with any woman friends. being friends with women is a joke. not my husband. if you need to talk to a woman, talk to your wife. it is not necessary and not healthy for this marriage for you to be friends with women. it is disrespectful to this marriage. in my opinion...men and women cant be friends. that is just me. and i dont want my husband having women friends. i dont want to spend anytime worrying or thinking about that. i dont need that. nope. for what? btdt.

10. JUST GROW UP, and get your shit together.

that is how you show me everyday that you want to change.


BS (41):(Former Doormat)
WS (39):(Busted Cheater)
Married: 10 years, 3 kids under 5
DD1: 10/11 PA/EA with pilates instructor/former stripper.
DD2: 10/12 False r, cheating with other women, online dating,Substance abuse issues.
Attempting R in bi

Posts: 934 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: Alabama
sisoon
Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 3:50 PM, February 10th (Sunday)

sri, I've followed some of your struggle, and I'm very glad to read that your H is in rehab and you're working on R.

At first I thought I needed to understand what happened and why. Then I realized, as you have, that I just won't ever understand how my W could cheat, especially for her reasons.

What counts for healing and for R is change - the WS needs to change the thoughts and feelings that supported the A and the betrayals. One way to do that is for the WS to analyze why she effed up and make changes to stop the old crap. Another way - and it sounds like this is what your H is doing - is to take responsibility and to decide to behave with new honesty, love, and integrity.

The first approach repairs a broken system. The second replaces the broken system with a new one. I think the 2nd approach holds a lot more promise for success.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 9990 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
soveryweary
Member
Member # 32265
Default  Posted: 3:50 PM, February 10th (Sunday)

AMEN sri624!!
I am giving you a standing ovation. You summed it up for me.
I remember being at bed bath and beyond last year and WH and I were disagreeing over an item to buy.
He as usual was insisting on getting something totally outside the budget.
He grabbed it and got in line.
When I asked him why he was buying it he said, "because I want to."
That sums up perfectly his cheating.
Because he wanted to.
Thank you for posting this.


Divorced 1/3/14

Posts: 621 | Registered: May 2011
sri624
Member
Member # 33956
Default  Posted: 4:20 PM, February 10th (Sunday)

i can sleep better at night not counting on the "why" to make me feel better, becasue like i said...it does for a little while...but later...i feel really bad and insecure all over again. so when i think..."well he did it because his dad and grandfather were cheated...or because he has a lot of emotional problems, or because he had issues with us..." when i do that...i am trying to stop immediately, and say NO. there is no excuse, no "reason" that makes any sense...he just wanted to do what he liked doing. he was very deliberate...it was not an accident, nothing took over his mind...it was good sex...he liked it over and over....but NOW...after he got busted...and realized that this life did not fit with our marriage...and he lost everything....he is working to be a better man...and i have all these examples everyday that show me that he is being accountable and acting like a trustworthy person.

he would have continued to cheat if he didnt get caught. i am HONEST ABOUT that because it is TRUE. but he did get caught...and now he wants to change.

okay...lets do the hard work from there. no more games.

thank you everyone for listening to my long posts...i needed to vent to my friends here. that is how i move forward.

i cant go back and focus on the explanations and why. it is all bullshit. i need to focus on his actions now. and they show me NOW...that it isnt something he wants to do anymore.

say it is again sri...."it is something that he DOESNT WANT TO DO ANYMORE. HE DID AT ONE TIME, BUT NOT ANYMORE.


BS (41):(Former Doormat)
WS (39):(Busted Cheater)
Married: 10 years, 3 kids under 5
DD1: 10/11 PA/EA with pilates instructor/former stripper.
DD2: 10/12 False r, cheating with other women, online dating,Substance abuse issues.
Attempting R in bi

Posts: 934 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: Alabama
keptmyword
Member
Member # 35526
Default  Posted: 4:23 PM, February 10th (Sunday)

Very well and very passionately expressed. I can sympathize and feel the pain, anger, and frustration in your writing.

I've reached that point some time ago. My WW immediately and determinedly began blaming me and the marriage to cover any and all why's, excuses, and explanations. I immediately and far more determinedly informed her that her decision to trade sex for compliments had absolutely nothing to do with me or our marriage. Period. D-day was almost exactly one year ago and we have been separated for about 11 months. She blatantly lied about ending it and not having any contact. It continued long after we separated and long after she told our very young son that we were separating to work on our marriage and that it was just a "break".

She is now at a point where she says that she doesn't blame me for her decisions but that "you have to admit there was something missing in our marriage". I advised her that there is something "missing" in every marriage that ever was or will be and that there is no such thing as a marriage that is completely "whole". The missing bullshit is where love, understanding, compassion, communication, humor, and work come in. There is a kind of relationship where nothing at all is "missing" - it's called being total fucking strangers.

If really doesn't matter the why, excuses, or explanations for her being who she is and who she will always be. I am saddened to honestly say she is one of the greatest cowards I will ever know of in my life. Every quality and characteristic that I loved about her is gone. Honesty? Integrity? Commitment? Values? Morals? Kindness? Compassion? She has absolutely NONE of that anymore.

THAT is what matters. Why she did it doesn't mean shit. She has simply become something unrecognizable. She is someone who while continuing to conduct her knowingly gross affair is asking me about reconciliation. She knew very well how ugly and destructive what she was doing would be to the lives of our two very young children. She knew it and made the very AWARE decision to go on with it.

Here it is:

She is someone who can knowingly do something to one that she would never, ever, under any circumstances, want anyone to do to her.

I can't live with that. Like you, I've spent so much time thinking and thinking of the whys and the excuses. Bottom line is it doesn't mean shit. What matters is - Can you live with this person? Can you accept what they have done and know that no matter what they say or do that they will ALWAYS be very susceptible to doing it again.

I can't. I've filed for and have proceeded with divorce even though she has expressed the desire for reconciliation.


I Divorced Her.

Posts: 362 | Registered: May 2012
sri624
Member
Member # 33956
Default  Posted: 5:17 PM, February 10th (Sunday)

i completely understand. you have decided that you cant live with that truth..and i understand that. i do. i get it. i am trying to figure out if i can live with it as well...the truth....and forgeting about the why, excuses and explanations that dont mean crap.

i honestly think it is a joke when right after DDAY, all i wanted him to do was get into ic...as if that would fix everything. it didnt. he went to ic...to address all his issues, but that didnt make me feel any better. and you know what? he was still cheating..until i discovered we were in false r. he did that ic crap to satisfy ME....and because he felt really bad about what he did. but deep down, he still did what he wanted to do, and kept doing it. he was just continuing to fool me and everyone else. he wasnt fooling himself, because deep down he was just lying. and not ready to stop fucking. you know?

personally guys...you know what? i think the whole "get him into ic" is a load of crap. i really do. i may be the minority here but that is how i feel. people all over the world have crappy childhoods, parents abandoned them....all kinds of bad things happen to good people everyday....and a lot of them still do not choose to cheat. so, yes, go to the therapist when you get busted to "help you understand"...and maybe make the BS "feel" better, but you still cheated. i prefer if you go see the ic...keep that crap to yourself...you guys "work that out".... and next time when you get the urge to cheat...do the right thing...because you have already learned that when you get busted, you lose everything...and next time, you may be out of the house forever. it just isnt worth it.

cry to the therapist about how the world did you wrong...and fix that....

when you are ready to own what you did and be accountable most importantly save the "whys" for your therapist....come see me...and then we can get into mc....and really work on the issues within our marriage....none of which justified an affair. a mc is going to be needed for us to constructively work our way through all the infedelity damage you created.


BS (41):(Former Doormat)
WS (39):(Busted Cheater)
Married: 10 years, 3 kids under 5
DD1: 10/11 PA/EA with pilates instructor/former stripper.
DD2: 10/12 False r, cheating with other women, online dating,Substance abuse issues.
Attempting R in bi

Posts: 934 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: Alabama
sailorgirl
Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 6:17 PM, February 10th (Sunday)

personally guys...you know what? i think the whole "get him into ic" is a load of crap. i really do. i may be the minority here but that is how i feel. people all over the world have crappy childhoods, parents abandoned them....all kinds of bad things happen to good people everyday....and a lot of them still do not choose to cheat. so, yes, go to the therapist when you get busted to "help you understand"...and maybe make the BS "feel" better, but you still cheated. i prefer if you go see the ic...keep that crap to yourself...you guys "work that out"

Wow. What my WH did was bad, but it does not erase my compassion for him. Both his parents beat him (with a belt and other things) daily for years. They threatened him constantly so he would keep the violence a secret. He was this skinny little freckled kid with a gentle soul.

Yes he's a grown-up now, and yes I'm furious at him for choosing to cheat. But thank God IC is not a "load of crap" because WH was obviously not able to deal with the fallout from his childhood on his own. As his wife and his best friend, I don't want him to keep his past to himself (denying the effects of his past is what got us into this mess.)

There are circumstances that can set up a good person (a loyal, commitment oriented, basically decent person) to cross a line they otherwise would not have crossed.


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
sri624
Member
Member # 33956
Default  Posted: 6:56 PM, February 10th (Sunday)

well...i guess for me....no passes, no excuses...no "well he had a crappy childhood...was beaten, was abused, was ignored....bad parents"....none of that "makes me understand" any better. my husband turned to substance abuse to "cope" with all of his demons from the past....

still didnt have to cheat though.

see...i have compassion for the man. i do. it's terrible that he has issues. but we all do...and no matter what...you still have to be held accountable. i am not saying that i do feel bad for the challenges he experienced in his life...like a lot of people have...i am just saying that for me, i am "not taking that into consideration." it carries no weight with me...and provides no why, excuse or explanation.

for me, its like....you are a cheater AND a substance abuser. 2 separate issues. one did not make you do the other. you chose to do both. period. so get help for both. on your own...

at the same time be accountable for what you did.

see, i would "blame it all on the alcohol"...wrong! he knew what he was doing, and made the decision to do it and keep doing it.

bad childhood and all....he liked getting that ass on the side until he got caught.

i love him...and i feel compassion for what happend to him...but that for me has nothing at all to do with the concious decisions he made to mess around.

and you know what? i support my husband. i go to family meetings when their is group therapy...i support his recovery...i support the help he is getting for addressing all the bad things that happend to him when he was a kid....father left the home...blah, blah, blah....but that has nothing to do with what he needs to do in order to earn back the trust that he destroyed in our family.

my true reconcilation with my husband has began because i set a firm boundary for myself that i would not allow any whys, excuses or explanations...and the marriage will be much stronger for it...if we make it.

he doesnt need ic to tell him how to act. he already knows...at least mine does. he just chose to be foul.

[This message edited by sri624 at 7:00 PM, February 10th (Sunday)]


BS (41):(Former Doormat)
WS (39):(Busted Cheater)
Married: 10 years, 3 kids under 5
DD1: 10/11 PA/EA with pilates instructor/former stripper.
DD2: 10/12 False r, cheating with other women, online dating,Substance abuse issues.
Attempting R in bi

Posts: 934 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: Alabama
0115
Member
Member # 31740
Default  Posted: 9:48 PM, February 10th (Sunday)

I feel there is a difference between an excuse and "the why". There is no excuse for an affair.

The why is different. It doesn't stop the pain or excuse the affair. It helps navigate the decision to stay or go and helps create a map to go forward. If the ONLY reason was because "he wanted to" I don't think I would have stayed and chosen to R. My fWH's why is complicated and does include sexual, physically and emotional abuse began when he was 5. I DO care to know. If I am staying with him I want to know all about it. I wish and I should have known about it before we married. That was part of his issues. He learned very early on to lie, to compartmentalize, to avoid, to fit in and be "normal". These were learned behaviors and they were for survival. At what point did he learn "normal". He didn't. In my/our situation, he has to do more than just change his behavior. He had to change his entire way of thinking. He had to learn what love was. I need to know what he's thinking and why he thinks what he does because its just as important as his behavior.

He has worked incredibly hard to change how he thinks which then changes his behavior.

My situation might be the only screwed up one and everyone else's WS might have been the normal "I just want to type". It's been 2 years and a lot of introspection on both our parts. The A was not fair. I was dealt a shitty hand. I didn't deserve any of it but then again, he could say the same thing about his abuse and yet he never has. He's never used it as an excuse. He's told me why he thought the way he did, why he felt the way he did but never has he used it an excuse.

Just another perspective.


BS (me) 49
FWH 49 newbeg2011
Married 29 years
Very Long LTA
DD 01/15/11-6/30/11
The hard work is done...let the healing begin.

Posts: 1003 | Registered: Apr 2011
sri624
Member
Member # 33956
Default  Posted: 10:40 PM, February 10th (Sunday)

i appreciate your perspective...all of the different ones really. you know every marriage is different. every marriage has it's own dna doesnt it? mine is unique to me, you know? and the way my marriage works is that i do see all the whys, excuses and explanations as really, really really not helping me in any way. that is what i am saying. it does not stop the pain...or make me feel any better. you see what i am saying?

i personally have accepted that. and i need for my husband to accept that too. i am not interested in the reasons as a way to help me heal. it wont. he did that. that is who he is, and now he is choosing to change his behavior. great.

all of his personal issues may be relevant...they may even provide some insight as to the kind of man he became...i get all of that. but i guess what i am saying is that when i am alone...or in the shower, or driving, or just having a private moment....it does not matter. it still hurts me terribly what he did. and that he IS that kind of man. he only stopped because he got caught like most waywards.

i think about all the people in jail for doing horrible things. well, i would bet that most of them had a bad childhood. but they dont get off the hook because of it. no. they are in jail where they need to be..being accountable for what they did. the victims that they hurt arent thinking about how bad their childhood was. no....let them rot in jail is what they think...because they are a POS for what they did.

same with my husband...at least that is how i see it.

i dont want to hear anything else from him but....see his trustworthy actions. keep all the whys, excuses, and explanations to himself or tell it to the therapist.

in my marriage, that is the only way he can earn my forgiveness...if there is even a possiblity for that. but he can start there in order to stay with a woman like me. i know my worth and value now.

just be a good man. that is all you have to do. and my husband knows how to do that. he just has to want to.

and you know what you guys....my husband KNOWS this. he knows what to do.
now, if they want to...well...that is a whole different story. mine didnt for a long time...until like i said, he got busted.

[This message edited by sri624 at 10:44 PM, February 10th (Sunday)]


BS (41):(Former Doormat)
WS (39):(Busted Cheater)
Married: 10 years, 3 kids under 5
DD1: 10/11 PA/EA with pilates instructor/former stripper.
DD2: 10/12 False r, cheating with other women, online dating,Substance abuse issues.
Attempting R in bi

Posts: 934 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: Alabama
Flatlined123
Member
Member # 35862
Default  Posted: 5:10 AM, February 11th (Monday)

I, personally, think you're right on a lot of points.

The one thing that I had to realize to move on was that it wasn't because of the OW specifically. As the saying goes "in a storm any port will do". OW was just accessible and willing.


Me: BS 43
H : WS 46
DD #1 7-11-08
DD#2 8-21-09 same OW, A never ended.
Started R in 12-09
"If what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, I should be able to bench press a Buick."

Posts: 664 | Registered: Jun 2012
LivinginLimbo
Member
Member # 35004
Default  Posted: 7:39 AM, February 11th (Monday)

The turning point for me was when my H broke down and said "I was selfish. I did it because I wanted to."

Up until then, it was all sorts of nonsensical excuses that he manufactured in order to justify what he did. I never bought into any of it.

Bottom line, he CHOSE to cheat. Until he owned this, there was no chance we had of working through this.


BS - 62
FWH - 60
Married 34 years
D-Day 2/12/12
Doing well with R

Posts: 1019 | Registered: Mar 2012
fourever
Member
Member # 30631
Default  Posted: 7:49 AM, February 11th (Monday)

Thank you for this post. It helped me get to the place I needed to be.

For me, when you get to the bottom line, yes, he did it, he wanted too, he thought of himself, he made it work. 4 yr lta w/mow. The children and I were collateral damage, but at the time, he wasn't thinking of anything but his own selfish needs. End of story.

I believe, he is now the man I thought he was, he shows me every day since DD, but Mr. Hyde was there before, how can I ever be sure he's not hiding there again?

Because of your post, and my realization, I was able to express this to him. Thanks for writing it. For me, it's a big next step.


In R since shortly after DD.
Discovered what was right in front of him and nearly lost.

Always, tell the other BS! Always!

"It's hard to be in love when you can't tell lies"!


Posts: 873 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Northeast
sri624
Member
Member # 33956
Default  Posted: 10:16 AM, February 11th (Monday)

exactly....it is in a sad way a bit liberating to not always been looking for the whys, excuses and explanation...because there just is not one that will help. not one. for me..."accepting" any of them is complete rugsweeping and blameshifting....a way of me avoiding what hurt the most...the truth...the truth that he just wanted to do it...and did...and not only that....he really, really liked getting it on the side.

sooooooooooo, moving forward, day by day...i am going to begin focusing on the truth. we have mc today...our weekly session....and will bring it up.

if we make it...and my husband truly continues to "reform" , then i want a marriage and reconciliation built on truth. that is the only, only way.

the same as when i asked for access to his phone records....he said no. it was horrible..we separated...a mess. and then he broke down and gave them to me...and it was bad. all bad. he wanted to "start fresh"and no show me the records. but that was not going to fly becasue i wanted to know the whole truth and nothing but the truth. so, when i got those records, i looked at everything. it did matter. even though other people around me...(not here though)...wanted me to "just let it go." no way. no letting anything go to r. to r for me meant basing it on the ugly truth. and i learned that he had been up to no good for a long time. it was way worse than i thouhgt. but when we are really honest with ourselves...it usually IS worse than we thought. "where there is one rat, there are usually 20." i guess they say that about roaches too.


BS (41):(Former Doormat)
WS (39):(Busted Cheater)
Married: 10 years, 3 kids under 5
DD1: 10/11 PA/EA with pilates instructor/former stripper.
DD2: 10/12 False r, cheating with other women, online dating,Substance abuse issues.
Attempting R in bi

Posts: 934 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: Alabama
Wonderingwhy11
Member
Member # 34782
Default  Posted: 12:03 PM, February 11th (Monday)

Getting to acceptance and decision to R is a difficult and painful process. I spent the first year after DDay trying to find out the “why” that would make sense. I have discovered the different whys only made accepting the A and trying to R much harder. The different whys were confusing and conflicting. The reality is there is no why that makes it all better. I believe the why is to help us BS to realize the A was not about us or what we were not doing. Once I came to the realization the A was not about me I could go on to the next stage which was the A had nothing to do with me or the problems in our marriage.

The A was because he could and had the opportunity and thought I would never find out. I even found an email sent 3 months after DDay (I found the email 9 months after it was sent – WH forgot to delete it) and he said he had no contact with OW since the week after DDay. So contact continued and the reason for the contact was – it was stupid. My point exactly – how stupid are you to continue to throw away our marriage?

The question is how you know they will never cheat again. The answer for me is I don’t – at least not at this stage. I have told WH this and he realizes I might never trust him again. So how do you attempt to R when you can’t trust them? The answer for me is he has to show me he wants to R and some of the things I need to see are:
1. His friends our friends of our marriage. They can’t disrespect our marriage
2. Cut back on drinking with the guys. Only meeting friends for drinks twice a week. No going to bars on the weekends unless I am there.
3. He needs to respect me
4. Work on his insecurity issues, selfish and narcissistic behavior
5. Stop expecting me to be just like him. I am a woman and he is a man – we are different people with different personalities.
6. Spend more time with the family and be involved in our kids activities

Can I trust again? It will take me a long time. I do know I have to trust myself. The hardest to accept is that the trust I had, the ability to not worry about him having an A are gone. At this point I can’t say I don’t worry about him cheating. If this does not fade I know the M can’t survive. I can’t handle living wondering what he is doing. It is not a life or a loving marriage. I hope to get back to the place I was before the A – trust and knowing he will not cheat.


Me BW - 46
Him WH - 53
Together 23 yrs, Married 18
DDay August 2011
2 kids - 13 and 15

Gotta love the life that we livin'


Posts: 376 | Registered: Feb 2012
kiki1
Member
Member # 37184
Default  Posted: 1:14 PM, February 11th (Monday)

sri and sorrow- I understand completely where you are coming from. My situation is the same-he did it cause he could, he liked sex with someone else and he cared nothing for me or my feelings after 25 years of being together. I truly dont think we will make it through this. Too much tt and dishonesty still. After too much time. He still thinks nothing of inflicting pain on me. I hate this place i am in.

Posts: 553 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: new york
sisoon
Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 1:52 PM, February 11th (Monday)

cry to the therapist about how the world did you wrong...

Anyone who has gotten support for self-pity in therapy has gotten some bad therapy. A decent IC will listen - and then move the client toward changing. The point of IC is to become more functional, not to become more satisfied with being dysfunctional.

IC isn't a cure-all - IC for a WS doesn't help a BS who wants R unless the WS's goals include R and unless the WS is willing to do the necessary work.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 9990 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
naivewife
Member
Member # 38375
Default  Posted: 2:56 PM, February 11th (Monday)

I'm at that big "why" point too so this post really resonates, because yes, in the back of my mind, even with the whys and explanations floating around, the fact is he fucked her 5 or more times. A ONS, I can see drunkenness being to blame, but when you do the same thing over and over again you obviously enjoyed it and thought you could get away with it, and didn't care enough to stop. Sad truth.


D-day #1 - 1/23/13
false R, then...
D-day #2 - 3/26/13
I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice, of all mischief and in particular of sexual relations with both female and male persons. - Hippocratic Oath

Posts: 341 | Registered: Feb 2013
sudra
Member
Member # 30143
Default  Posted: 3:45 PM, February 11th (Monday)

I totally agree. We all have baggage. My husband's baggage wasn't "bigger" than mine, just different.

I hate to sound holier-than-thou, and I know that I do when I say I would never have cheated on my husband.

It's a fuckupedness that I can't attribute to anything other than what your IC said, "he wanted to and he could." Some folks have that sense of entitlement regardless of whether their Foo was good or bad.

It feels sort of liberating to accept that my husband cheated because he wanted to, it felt good, and he was selfish enough to go forward with two affairs. The possibility of my pain if I found out wasn't a strong enough deterrent. Because he wanted to cheat. Knowing that, I can put down a lot of the crap about his whys. His whys are for him to sort out. I just need to know that he won't betray me again. And, frankly, I will never "know" that again, after what he did.

I appreciate your post. It totally helps me.


Me (BW) (54), Him(SAWH) (57)
Married 21 years, 1 son (19), 1 stepdaughter (27)
DDay #1 January 2004
DDay #2 7-27-2010 7 month EA/PA (became "engaged" to OW before he told me he wanted a divorce)
Working on R

Posts: 1455 | Registered: Nov 2010
Tiredofthepain
Member
Member # 37932
Default  Posted: 12:17 PM, February 22nd (Friday)

I get why you keep asking and hoping that this one time you will hear something, anything, that will make you feel better and take away some of the unbearable pain.

But the truth for me is in my situation (WS is a SA) it is imperative for him to acknowledge what was going on in his head when he cheated. He has to figure it out for his recovery. Him being a SA and having sex with only hookers doesn't make the pain any less.

I may never know the whole truth, but he has admitted so very much to me that he didn't have to and he is working so hard to repair this mess and fix himself that for now, I have to accept I know enough to move on.

Does it still hurt like hell? yes! But the why of it all doesn't seem as a way to ease my pain anymore, but it is important for the marriage as a whole.

If they don't recognize why they cheated or what was in their fucked up head at the time,then they won't know how to stop it from happening again.


ME-BS 48
HIM-WS 38
WS is SA, multiple visits to prostitutes.
Status: Hanging in there

I would rather be told a hurtful truth than a comforting lie.

Posts: 559 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: NC
MUFan
Member
Member # 38284
Default  Posted: 1:19 PM, February 22nd (Friday)

For me, I'm afraid if he doesn't fully understand why he had an A, he will do it again. Outwardly he's a very confident guy and has never admitted to me or himself that he is really insecure and needs other people to approve of him so that he can feel good about himself. OW gave him that boost...that and his KISA complex. He felt better because he thought he was helping her in her marriage. He needs to work on self acceptance and not look towards sources of outward validation.


Me (35)
fWH (35)- emotional affair that ended after a ONS (1-24-13)
4 kids
"Ah yes, the past can hurt. But the way I see it, you can either run from it or learn from it."
-The Lion King

Posts: 84 | Registered: Jan 2013
crazyblindsided
Member
Member # 35215
Default  Posted: 1:39 PM, February 22nd (Friday)

THE BOTTOM line is that my husband cheated on me....because he wanted to do it....PERIOD. now, i can sit here and go on all forever about why he did it...he needs ic, he needs help....he needs this and that to figure out the why.....blah, blah, blah....he cheated becasue he wanted to. and here is the dirty truth:

I agree with everything you said including the dirty truth.

No Why or Excuse or Explanation is going to make me feel better and I no longer care to know. What my WH showed me through this ordeal is how broken of an individual he actually is.

He IS someone that I never thought would be capable of doing the amount of damage he did.


BS/FWS (me):40 Madhatter
WS/BS:42 Serial Cheater
Together 18 years, Married 13
DD(10) DS(7)
DDay(s) 5/08, 5/09, 3/30/12
Final Dday 7/11/14 Affair never ended

Posts: 2266 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: California
mchercheur
Member
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 7:40 PM, October 29th (Tuesday)

BUMPING because this is one of the best threads I have read, & I think it will help a lot of others


together 25 yrs, married 24 yrs, 4 children;Rebuilding
D Day: 5/10/2011 PA
OW: WH's co-worker,divorced, no children, 20 yrs younger than I-----& she knew he was married, had met our kids, but that did not stop her from trying to destroy our family

Posts: 1355 | Registered: Dec 2012
Topic Posts: 49