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User Topic: Tell me about "kisa's."
naivewife
Member
Member # 38375
Default  Posted: 6:33 AM, February 25th (Monday)

I just saw "KISA" used in another post and looked it up and saw it means "knight in shining armor." The post I saw mentioned that KISA's are prone to EA's and even PA's even with people they're not even sexually attracted to. I'm thinking WH falls under this KISA category. Can any of you more experienced folks here elaborate on the KISA theory? Between wanting to appear to be a knight in shining armor to all and also having a serious issue with assertiveness, I feel like this gets WH in a lot of trouble. He's never had an A before this but many times I've busted him for swapping emails with some damsel in distress that really were crossing the line of appropriateness, and then he gets defensive about how they needed his help and advice and he doesn't want to hurt their feelings. This is something I hope his IC will pick up on.


D-day #1 - 1/23/13
false R, then...
D-day #2 - 3/26/13
I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice, of all mischief and in particular of sexual relations with both female and male persons. - Hippocratic Oath

Posts: 341 | Registered: Feb 2013
StillGoing
Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 6:37 AM, February 25th (Monday)

KISA is a guy who gets off on being seen as a hero.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7431 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 6:41 AM, February 25th (Monday)

damsel in distress
Dumsel in distress is the more appropriate term.

It sounds like you understand the KISA and that your WH falls into this category. As StillGoing says, they want to be seen as a hero, it is very ego stroking to them.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9544 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
hitbyatruck
Member
Member # 23769
Default  Posted: 6:42 AM, February 25th (Monday)

I'm no expert but I know my H has KISA traits.

One affair started due to OW's car being broke down and her struggling in college. He took her to school and had many "study sessions".

Another was making sure the OW was safe in the gym at night since it was all men but her. He felt it was only right to stick with her in the gym and make sure she got back to the hotel safely... they were at a three week long training for work.

There are more examples but H would tell me how he was "helping" these women while I was still in the dark as to how much time he was actually spending with OW that "needed" him.

My H shines in situations when his help in actually needed. He is the first to jump in and go well beyond. I have always been proud of him when I would see him help so much but it did lead him down some very destructive paths.


Married 1998, 2 kids
D-day3/27/09,he left 5/23/09
WH wants to rebuild 3/21/10
He moved back in 9/25/10,
Dec, 2011-finally putting it all together, H had multiple affairs.
Possible porn addict for 15 yrs.
01/2014- in house separation

Posts: 3280 | Registered: Apr 2009
naivewife
Member
Member # 38375
Default  Posted: 6:51 AM, February 25th (Monday)

Yep, this is him all right. Does the concept come from an affair book that talks about it in depth, or is it just an SI term?


D-day #1 - 1/23/13
false R, then...
D-day #2 - 3/26/13
I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice, of all mischief and in particular of sexual relations with both female and male persons. - Hippocratic Oath

Posts: 341 | Registered: Feb 2013
curiouswiz
Member
Member # 34405
Default  Posted: 6:52 AM, February 25th (Monday)

Mine was a kisa. With anyone that needed him. Anyone. That is except for me.

He would run out the door to help near strangers but couldn't feed me when I was sick.

He's now helping a stripper/junky/whore. He's helping her destroy his life.


God bless us, everyone.

Posts: 633 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: Boston
hitbyatruck
Member
Member # 23769
Default  Posted: 7:06 AM, February 25th (Monday)

Yep, this is him all right. Does the concept come from an affair book that talks about it in depth, or is it just an SI term?

I'm not sure where the "KISA" started but it is not exclusive to SI.


Married 1998, 2 kids
D-day3/27/09,he left 5/23/09
WH wants to rebuild 3/21/10
He moved back in 9/25/10,
Dec, 2011-finally putting it all together, H had multiple affairs.
Possible porn addict for 15 yrs.
01/2014- in house separation

Posts: 3280 | Registered: Apr 2009
TrustGone
Member
Member # 36654
Default  Posted: 7:56 AM, February 25th (Monday)

Yes, both of my husbands thought they were KISA, in reality they are only toads in a swamp eating whatever came along at the time.


BW-50
WH#2-51
M-9 yrs T-11 yrs
4 children-none together
DD#1-9/5/11 LTA 2yrs
DD#2-7/3/12 False R
DD#3-4/29/13 (OW broke NC)
Status: Your guess is as good as mine.

Posts: 2420 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: Texas
SecondHelping
Member
Member # 36796
Default  Posted: 7:59 AM, February 25th (Monday)

My fWW is a KISA. She is really selfish around the house but will go out of her way to help anyone outside the house.

In our case, I don't think it caused the A. May have fuelled it some, but didn't cause it.


D-Day 1: Feb 1990 (2 yrs into M, kissing and a hickey)
D-Day 2: 3 Sep 2012 (3 month EA/3 week PA)
BS 49- Me, fWW 43- Her (Amibroken)
OP- Deputy Chief of Police from the town next to us! (Age 37)
Married 25 Years, Together 28
3 Kids (17, 14, 11)

Posts: 485 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Delmarva
sisoon
Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 8:35 AM, February 25th (Monday)

Steven (Stephen) Karpman IDed the Drama Triangle in which there are 3 roles - Victim, Rescuer, and Persecutor. It looks to me like KISAs take on the Rescuer role.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 9991 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
bestbecameworst
Member
Member # 31507
Default  Posted: 8:39 AM, February 25th (Monday)

many times I've busted him for swapping emails with some damsel in distress that really were crossing the line of appropriateness, and then he gets defensive about how they needed his help and advice and he doesn't want to hurt their feelings.

When I finally started snooping due to his A, I found many similar emails. I think his behaviours eventually culminated in the A, and these behaviours are inappropriate when the "damsels" are more important to him than you are.

He needs to give up that behaviour IMHO...

bbw


Me: BS
Together since 1997, married Jan 2010, EA started Feb 2010, PA June 2010
D-day1 Oct 20 2010 / D-day2 Oct 21 2010 and following week / found this site Mar 2011
He didn't do work to reconcile.
DIVORCED in 2014 and HAPPY!

Posts: 595 | Registered: Mar 2011
Nature_Girl
Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 9:55 AM, February 25th (Monday)

I used that term to describe STBX for years before I found my way here. As others said, he went out of his way to help other women. Only women. And not me. Well, he did help me when we first met & were dating. However, once we were married that was over, he'd only help other women. He left me here home alone with three young children, including a newborn, so he could "help" the neighbor lady with her computer. He would be over an hour late from getting groceries because he needed to "help" one of the female checkers at the store, much to the detriment of the frozen food (would be defrosted by the time he got home) or the milk (would go sour because it got too warm). He had an EA with a female coworker who was having marital problems, spending hours talking to her but not saying a word to me or the children.

Interestingly, some narcissists love to be KISA because it makes them look good.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9538 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
upinflames8
Member
Member # 37619
Default  Posted: 9:57 AM, February 25th (Monday)

My fWW is a KISA. She is really selfish around the house but will go out of her way to help anyone outside the house.
In our case, I don't think it caused the A. May have fuelled it some, but didn't cause it.

This sounds just like my H. I used to think he was just a romantic because he was always trying to help his guy friends find girlfriends because he just "wanted them to have someone and be happy" then he started consoling females over their breakups but I never really gave it any thought.

Now that I'm thinking about it he did say started talking to AP1 because she recently broke up with her ex and then that is how he got to talking about the state of our marriage


Me: BW
Married: since 2008
3 Beautiful Kiddos

Discovery 10/22/2012
Admittance: 11/21/2012
2 month PA/2 week EA


Posts: 80 | Registered: Nov 2012
crazyblindsided
Member
Member # 35215
Default  Posted: 9:58 AM, February 25th (Monday)

My WH was helping his employee (MOW) get out of her abusive marriage.

Even after D-day WH told me that he felt like I didn't NEED him. In reality I don't because I like knowing that I can take care of me and my kids at a moment's notice. Sorry WH (KISA) you won't find needy over here.


BS/FWS (me):40 Madhatter
WS/BS:42 Serial Cheater
Together 18 years, Married 13
DD(10) DS(7)
DDay(s) 5/08, 5/09, 3/30/12
Final Dday 7/11/14 Affair never ended

Posts: 2266 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: California
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 10:17 AM, February 25th (Monday)

I am a self identified KISA. Never have I been anything but faithful. In my case, my rescuer complex allowed me to find "broken" women. Then I'm surprised (?) when they're brokenness reasserts itself and results in infidelity.

it definitely is an unconscious thing. after my third go around I definitely tried to pick a "healthy" woman. it obviously didn't work hence numbers 4 and 5.

This sucks


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2726 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
NikkiD
Member
Member # 38173
Default  Posted: 10:17 AM, February 25th (Monday)

KISA...can also be known as
"captain save-a-hoe". Coined by rapper E-40 back in the early 90's sometimes...I call it the urban slang for KISA...the verse goes "Look up in the shy its a bird, its a plane, whats that *bleeps* name? Captain-save-a-hoe mane!!" Then the course of the song has a woman with a really annoying voice saying "I wanna be saved..."

I hate the "bleeped" word, but its definately a KISA


"Spoil me with Loyalty; I can finance myself...."
ME: BS-33
HE: WS-32
Married 3 years, known 20
2 kids
D-Day #1 12/30/12
False Recovery
D-Day #2 1/21/14
LTA 5 years-ish
Riding the "Struggle Bus"
Living apart....

Posts: 668 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 10:22 AM, February 25th (Monday)

naivewife,

Have you ever confronted or discussed this with your H?


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4767 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
TXBW68
Member
Member # 36456
Default  Posted: 10:25 AM, February 25th (Monday)

My husband has always been the same way. We met in college 21 years ago. During our entire relationship, he has counseled/helped other women about their relationship issues. He was seen as the "safe" guy to talk to because he was head over heels in love with me. They knew he would not try to hit on them or take advantage of the situation. I always knew about these women and even discussed their situations with him. We even joked that he should go back to school to get his Psychology degree.

OW is the first damsel in distress that he didn't discuss with me. Their EA started with her confiding in him about her divorce. Her husband left her and 3 kids for his OW!

Apparently she tried to control her feelings for my husband, even told him to try to work things out with me. But then, her feelings for him became too overwhelming and she just had to have him - and he didn't want to hurt her feelings so he continued...

Fortunately, he recognizes this about himself now and is actively staying away from women like this.


Me (45) WH (42),2 boys 14 & 11
M 18yrs T 22yrs
Separated 10 months (4/12 to 2/13)
Final Total - #1/#2 ONS and #3/#4 EA/PA - left me for #4, didn't know about #2 and 3 until he moved back home
We are solidly in R now

Posts: 787 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: Dallas, TX
realitybites
Member
Member # 6908
Default  Posted: 10:41 AM, February 25th (Monday)

I have people tell me ALL the time how nice my H is, how he is so great at helping out at work....how wonderful he is with helping out just about anybody....except for his own family.

He truly craves people liking him.

I would ask many of you...and maybe I am way off base here....but how many of your WS's have low self esteem, or possibly not highly educated that they feel "less then" so to speak so they over compensate with this KISA type of personality? Its like the only way they know of to have people like them.

Carried on Sex in the City used to say to Mr Big..."You give 'sparkle' out to other people and when you get home I get boring and tired and nothing.

So true with me. Gives everything to other people all the time.


Posts: 5634 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: florida
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 10:49 AM, February 25th (Monday)

I'm not a fan of the term because it's also the "nice guys" disease. My girl friends and I could spot this a mile away. The "nice guy" isn't so nice at all. He loved to be the shoulder you cried on, the rescuer from the horrible relationship, the immediate availability anytime "crises" popped up.

The problem is it's all about control. They focus on "you" to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy, fear of abandonment, ego aggrandizement. If they can be there for "you" then when you're better they have the perfect person who will be eternally grateful.

Huge problems. First, women that need "rescuing" are hot messes. People that know better realize that people are in situations 99% of the time caused by their own fuck ups, not other's, so you're "saving" the perpetrator, not the victim.

Women that are in crises, even if it's self created are emotionally unavailable. That's the real draw for these guys. The project. The "win" they require for self validating ego kibbles they need in endless supply.

The word "knight" gives it a far more noble ring than it deserves. It's really just predatory behavior of looking for the "weak" to feed themselves. "Funny" thing is the "weak" they find ain't so weak at all.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
NikkiD
Member
Member # 38173
Default  Posted: 10:51 AM, February 25th (Monday)

[\quote]I would ask many of you...and maybe I am way off base here....but how many of your WS's have low self esteem, or possibly not highly educated that they feel "less then" so to speak so they over compensate with this KISA type of personality? Its like the only way they know of to have people like them.[/quote]

Absoutely applies. Not sure why my WS esteem is so low. He is very smart and very talented but lazy. Its easier to save dumels than to put in the work on his business and his marriage I guess. His father told me strait up, he is smart but lazy and a body that wont do something aint as good as a body that cant do something.

[This message edited by NikkiD at 10:53 AM, February 25th (Monday)]


"Spoil me with Loyalty; I can finance myself...."
ME: BS-33
HE: WS-32
Married 3 years, known 20
2 kids
D-Day #1 12/30/12
False Recovery
D-Day #2 1/21/14
LTA 5 years-ish
Riding the "Struggle Bus"
Living apart....

Posts: 668 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 10:51 AM, February 25th (Monday)

realitybites.

my H is highly educated and it wasn't about women liking him. It was all about women needing him. See I didn't need him, not in that way. And I wasn't going to ever be that way. Just not who I am.

We have worked that out though and he now recognizes it and validates himself.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4767 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
NikkiD
Member
Member # 38173
Default  Posted: 10:53 AM, February 25th (Monday)

my H is highly educated and it wasn't about women liking him. It was all about women needing him. See I didn't need him, not in that way. And I wasn't going to ever be that way. Just not who I am.

Yes, mine is this way too. I was raised by a man and typically the dumsel my WS fell for wasnt. So he is her KISA, captain save-a-hoe.


"Spoil me with Loyalty; I can finance myself...."
ME: BS-33
HE: WS-32
Married 3 years, known 20
2 kids
D-Day #1 12/30/12
False Recovery
D-Day #2 1/21/14
LTA 5 years-ish
Riding the "Struggle Bus"
Living apart....

Posts: 668 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
silverhopes
Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 11:24 AM, February 25th (Monday)

H has KISA tendencies.

One of the things that marks it for me is that one of the first (and only) compliments he gave me what that I had the whole "independent woman" thing going on. Then, without saying, he looked for other women who needed him.

He would let the OW complain to him about her sex life, let her talk to him for hours. I think he felt by listening to her, he was letting her lean on him. He has never listened to me talk for hours, or even for five minutes.

He would fix the nursing students (who he also liked to flirt with) food whenever they were around, because he worried about them not having eaten all day. He would sometimes make food for me while I was tending to our son, which I always thanked him for, and other times would practically throw the plate at me and mumble about how he wasn't anyone's servant. Hence why I no longer tell him when I'm hungry.

He had elaborate fantasies about saving people (my BFF, my cousin, a neighbor's ONS, etc) from abusive people (even if there weren't in reality any abusers) and spent time feeling excessively sorry for others. The wife, on the other hand, could take care of herself, no matter what she was dealing with.

He gives change to homeless folks. Yet I've never seen him give a homeless man a $20 before, like he has to homeless girls. Of course, now he has made me his KISA in the money regard and successfully manages to ask me for almost half my paycheck every month to spend on his stuff. That's about to change.

In short, he likes to feel needed by people. Why wouldn't he? He gets people's thanks, he gets to have pretty girls be extra nice to him, even respond to his flirtings. It's how he knows to get attention, and it's a boost to his self-esteem to have people think well of him. I used to be the same way when I was younger, a female KISA, til I grew some (boundaries that is).

It preserves pretty girls in a certain way for him. Also, it makes them more accessible to him. Someone here on SI said that a KISA is really an asshole in tinfoil. Generosity can be a very important thing. I certainly love him for his. It just makes it harder when generosity becomes boundary-crossing and acting single in order to "help" someone, not to mention when it begins to make your family as the people most in need of help.

If you're not keen on being the damsel whose KISA is out protecting another girl's castle, then bump some of Beyonce's awesome music and have the courage to untangle yourself from your KISA, physically, financially, and especially emotionally. It's liberating.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.

Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.


Posts: 3902 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
Lalagirl
Member
Member # 14576
Default  Posted: 11:58 AM, February 25th (Monday)

Huge problems. First, women that need "rescuing" are hot messes. People that know better realize that people are in situations 99% of the time caused by their own fuck ups, not other's, so you're "saving" the perpetrator, not the victim.

AMEN!


Me - 49; FWH - 51
Married 30 years 9/2/13
2 grown daughters-30 & 27
5yo GS & 20 mo. GD & GB #4 due 8/15(DD30) and 2.5 yo GD(DD27). D-day #1 - 1/06; D-day #2 - 3/07
Reconciled! Construction Complete.

Posts: 5027 | Registered: May 2007
NikkiD
Member
Member # 38173
Default  Posted: 12:07 PM, February 25th (Monday)

Huge problems. First, women that need "rescuing" are hot messes. People that know better realize that people are in situations 99% of the time caused by their own fuck ups, not other's, so you're "saving" the perpetrator, not the victim.

Women that are in crises, even if it's self created are emotionally unavailable. That's the real draw for these guys. The project. The "win" they require for self validating ego kibbles they need in endless supply.


spot on!! My granny says women like this posess the "Jezebel spirit..." I thought it was some old southern term for "whore" until I looked it up. The above quote is described in much of the readings I found on it.

[This message edited by NikkiD at 12:07 PM, February 25th (Monday)]


"Spoil me with Loyalty; I can finance myself...."
ME: BS-33
HE: WS-32
Married 3 years, known 20
2 kids
D-Day #1 12/30/12
False Recovery
D-Day #2 1/21/14
LTA 5 years-ish
Riding the "Struggle Bus"
Living apart....

Posts: 668 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
naivewife
Member
Member # 38375
Default  Posted: 1:20 PM, February 25th (Monday)

naivewife,

Have you ever confronted or discussed this with your H?

I have confronted him in the individual circumstances that have popped up in the past, but I'm only now seeing it as a sort of problematic personality trait/weakness that needs to be addressed. I will bring this up and I hope this is brought up in his IC sessions as well. Thank you everyone for commenting. It's interesting to see how common this is in waywards but it makes sense.


D-day #1 - 1/23/13
false R, then...
D-day #2 - 3/26/13
I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice, of all mischief and in particular of sexual relations with both female and male persons. - Hippocratic Oath

Posts: 341 | Registered: Feb 2013
Feelthrownaway
Member
Member # 33772
Default  Posted: 1:41 PM, February 25th (Monday)

I don't believe they get off on being the KISA. They want to save them, help them, make life better for them. This type of person normally goes way out of his way for other people. Giving loans, giving rides to places, helping them with projects , etc.
Nikki, my husband is a KISA. He has always have high esteem he has has a BA. None of those describe him.

[This message edited by Feelthrownaway at 1:43 PM, February 25th (Monday)]


BW- 48
FWH-49
D-day- aug 16,2011
Married 22 years- together 25

What doesn't kill me, scars me.


Posts: 989 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Down South
NikkiD
Member
Member # 38173
Default  Posted: 1:47 PM, February 25th (Monday)

They want to save them, help them, make life better for them. This type of person normally goes way out of his way for other people. Giving loans, giving rides to places, helping them with projects , etc.
Nikki, my husband is a KISA. He has always have high esteem he has has a BA. None of those describe him.

Why tho? I mean, these are adults. We all know the best impact would be on a child if that is one's true calling. So why do are they so hell bent on actually saving people? Why not just be an example to be followed?

My WS is super smart, too. No degree because he got bored and wanted to make money instead. I say his esteem is low because he went around saving people vs working on himself.....


"Spoil me with Loyalty; I can finance myself...."
ME: BS-33
HE: WS-32
Married 3 years, known 20
2 kids
D-Day #1 12/30/12
False Recovery
D-Day #2 1/21/14
LTA 5 years-ish
Riding the "Struggle Bus"
Living apart....

Posts: 668 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
BaldwinBeauty59
Member
Member # 35507
Default  Posted: 1:54 PM, February 25th (Monday)

My WH was helping his employee (MOW) get out of her abusive marriage.

Even after D-day WH told me that he felt like I didn't NEED him.

Yeah, so did mine. After DD, he told me that I didn't need him but she did. He was saving her life don't you know...... Only it turns out that she made the whole abused spouse story up.


Me - BW (53)
Him - WH (56)
OW - skanky whore coworker
Married 33 years
DDay1 8/10/11
DDay2 8/15/11
DDay3 8/28/11
2 grown children
Status - in R

Posts: 978 | Registered: May 2012
NikkiD
Member
Member # 38173
Default  Posted: 2:01 PM, February 25th (Monday)

Yeah, so did mine. After DD, he told me that I didn't need him but she did

This must be in the cheater's handbook. I was told the same thing.


"Spoil me with Loyalty; I can finance myself...."
ME: BS-33
HE: WS-32
Married 3 years, known 20
2 kids
D-Day #1 12/30/12
False Recovery
D-Day #2 1/21/14
LTA 5 years-ish
Riding the "Struggle Bus"
Living apart....

Posts: 668 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
thenon-goddess
Member
Member # 31229
Default  Posted: 2:27 PM, February 25th (Monday)

My thoughts are that someone with KISA tendencies probably lacked needed validation as they were growing up. In my WH case he struggled to get his fathers approval. He didn't get much in the way of loving displays from his dad, and no validation when he had an accomplishment. As an adult my WH requires copious amounts of compliments/approval over even the smallest things. If he makes a new meal, for instance, he has to ask someone 3 or 4 times if they like it. It's like it didn't sink in the first time, he didn't even process the compliment, he has to ask again. Anyway, this damsel in distress comes along and it is an easy person to get validation from. Take these
poor women in their awful and abusive situations and then someone who is seeking validation and reassurance and - bingo! You have nearly and endless supply.


Status: divorcing
Typing on an iPhone - please excuse the typos!

Posts: 1238 | Registered: Feb 2011
NikkiD
Member
Member # 38173
Default  Posted: 2:40 PM, February 25th (Monday)

My thoughts are that someone with KISA tendencies probably lacked needed validation as they were growing up. In my WH case he struggled to get his fathers approval. He didn't get much in the way of loving displays from his dad, and no validation when he had an accomplishment. As an adult my WH requires copious amounts of compliments/approval over even the smallest things. If he makes a new meal, for instance, he has to ask someone 3 or 4 times if they like it. It's like it didn't sink in the first time, he didn't even process the compliment, he has to ask again. Anyway, this damsel in distress comes along and it is an easy person to get validation from. Take these
poor women in their awful and abusive situations and then someone who is seeking validation and reassurance and - bingo! You have nearly and endless supply.

Yep. Similar to my spouse as well. He helps everybody but me though...that part I dont get. He would often tell me to figure stuff out, but would jump up to help everyone else. That is what offends me the most.


"Spoil me with Loyalty; I can finance myself...."
ME: BS-33
HE: WS-32
Married 3 years, known 20
2 kids
D-Day #1 12/30/12
False Recovery
D-Day #2 1/21/14
LTA 5 years-ish
Riding the "Struggle Bus"
Living apart....

Posts: 668 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
catlover50
Member
Member # 37154
Default  Posted: 2:50 PM, February 25th (Monday)

I want to bring up something I posted about in another forum, about a topic which keeps getting repeated here, and that is that our WH felt that we did not need them and/or did not help us when we did need them.

I have been doing a lot of reading and spent lots of time on the Art of Love online forum recently. Many men apparently need to feel that they are making their wives/SOs happy to feel successful; it can be essential to them. Self esteem issues would make that even more important. I think that in most long term relationships with independent women we get away from making our husbands feel needed; I frankly did not know that he needed that. Again, I was that independent woman too.

Now that I am more aware of that I am very careful with criticism and very quick to praise. He has blossomed. He opens my car door, he helps around the house, he makes my toes curl every chance he gets. When I truly let him he became my hero. True the dynamic we had fallen into was largely his fault, but I can really help to improve things myself.

And yes, his LTA was largely KISA in origin.



Dday -9/24/2012
Reconciling

Posts: 1728 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: northeast
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 2:58 PM, February 25th (Monday)

Here is the problem with that dynamic catlover, your H is still not learning to validate himself. Is it nice to feel needed? Sure, but I am not going to make that a requirement in my M so my H can stay at home and not cheat. He needs to learn how to validate himself and learn that me being ok and not needing him to fix me is ok. That is a sick form of validation.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4767 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
BaldwinBeauty59
Member
Member # 35507
Default  Posted: 3:01 PM, February 25th (Monday)

Wow catlover50 that is spot on. Not only did my FWH tell me that she needed him and I didn't but he also told me that he didn't think that he could make me happy but he knew that he could make her happy. He said that I was miserable with his decision to move us far away from our family and friends and that I would never be happy there. He could make her happy because she had so little and any tiny thing made her happy and she was so grateful. Only until she hooked him then the buy me this and buy me that side of her came out. He spent over $5000 on her. She became very needy and demanding very quickly.

[This message edited by BaldwinBeauty59 at 3:03 PM, February 25th (Monday)]


Me - BW (53)
Him - WH (56)
OW - skanky whore coworker
Married 33 years
DDay1 8/10/11
DDay2 8/15/11
DDay3 8/28/11
2 grown children
Status - in R

Posts: 978 | Registered: May 2012
Housefulloflove
Member
Member # 38458
Default  Posted: 3:03 PM, February 25th (Monday)

"I would ask many of you...and maybe I am way off base here....but how many of your WS's have low self esteem, or possibly not highly educated that they feel "less then" so to speak so they over compensate with this KISA type of personality? Its like the only way they know of to have people like them"

Yes! He will go out of his way to be the helpful "nice guy" to someone else. Wouldn't lift a finger for me though. I take that back..whenever we were around other people, he suddenly became my KISA with outward gestures. Then we'd get back at home and that all flew out the window. His AP was a damsel in distress. She was addicted to drugs, lost custody of her kids, her husband cheated on her and left her (oh the irony on that one) and he said that all of their contact (that was CLEARLY already an EA) was just him "trying to be helpful" according to him. He couldn't have NC because that would hurt her feelings (nevermind that he was breaking promises and his wife's heart) Ugh..I still can't believe I dealt with that madness. Then it became a PA and all his excuses of the EA turned into blameshifting and rewriting history.

[This message edited by Housefulloflove at 3:04 PM, February 25th (Monday)]


Me-29 Starting over
ExWH-29 Probable NPD, PA, manchild
3 beautiful young children
DDay 1/20/13 Admits PA
No remorse so NO R. DIVORCED! 9/2013

Posts: 541 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: USA
NikkiD
Member
Member # 38173
Default  Posted: 3:06 PM, February 25th (Monday)

@ catlover

I get that. But when I needed him he wasnt there for me. I lost my grandfather and father within 6 mos of each other. He wasnt there for me. When I did ask for his help, he would literally tell me "you're smart, you'll figure it out"...I guess the wheel that squeaks the loudest gets the most oil....


"Spoil me with Loyalty; I can finance myself...."
ME: BS-33
HE: WS-32
Married 3 years, known 20
2 kids
D-Day #1 12/30/12
False Recovery
D-Day #2 1/21/14
LTA 5 years-ish
Riding the "Struggle Bus"
Living apart....

Posts: 668 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
h0pe4ul
Member
Member # 38446
Default  Posted: 3:28 PM, February 25th (Monday)

Wow! I've gone through the same things with my KISA. One thing I realize is that I am very independent and vocal, things WH hates about me. He is always saying I have to "get the last word" or "challenge" him. (Huh???) I'm grown! I have a graduate degree and know I can make it w/out WH and I believe that these are things that really lead him to cheat. It's his choice I know but I don't know how to be anything other than who I am. I don't want to be anything other than who I am. What attracted WH to me is the one thing that repels him now. All of the OW make him feel like the best thing since slice bread bc they are either not getting what they need from their spouses or are single and lonely (desperate) or are in affairs w/MM themselves....They tell him all of their problems and he is the man in their eyes. I should be so lucky to have a man like him (per the OW) and is something he tells me from time to time....

Posts: 185 | Registered: Feb 2013
BaldwinBeauty59
Member
Member # 35507
Default  Posted: 3:31 PM, February 25th (Monday)

"I would ask many of you...and maybe I am way off base here....but how many of your WS's have low self esteem, or possibly not highly educated that they feel "less then" so to speak so they over compensate with this KISA type of personality? Its like the only way they know of to have people like them"

My FWH is highly educated and in upper management. He was suffering low self esteem temporarily because due to the bad economy, he had recently been laid off from his job of nearly 30 years. He tied his identity with his career and felt like a failure to his family. He accepted a job out of state against my wishes and the move was hard on me. I was unhappy with his decision and our new life. Howorker at his new job zeroed in on him as he was the new boss and seduced him. He was ripe for the picking. I truly believe that if she hadn't interfered with our M, I would have adjusted to our new circumstances, his self esteem would have returned after he got over the hurt of being laid off and feeling old and discarded so that he would not have been in a vulnerable position and cheated. She lied and deceived him that she was an abused wife and "needed" his help. Once she got his sympathy she went in for the kill. Doesn't excuse his poor choices. He should have refused her advances and he should have talked to me about how he was feeling and that she was coming to him for "help". He chose to keep his friendship with her a secret from me because he enjoyed her adulation, her adoration, and her hero worship of him. Now that he knows it was all fake, he feels pretty damn stupid. He knows that if he is ever a KISA to any other woman that I will D his ass. One of the boundaries is NO personal conversations with any female coworkers. If she has a personal problem, he is to direct her to another female staff member, tell her to call a relative, friend, whomever as long as it is NOT him.


Me - BW (53)
Him - WH (56)
OW - skanky whore coworker
Married 33 years
DDay1 8/10/11
DDay2 8/15/11
DDay3 8/28/11
2 grown children
Status - in R

Posts: 978 | Registered: May 2012
silverhopes
Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 3:31 PM, February 25th (Monday)

I wonder if part of it is a pride/shame thing as well. WS might feel that since he or she is still married to you, that you have enough food, roof over head, etc. then she or he is "taking care of business" at home and can extend that kindness to others, and then focus a lot of energy on "saving" others. Of course, this brings up boundary issues as well as intimacy issues. By doing that, the WS neglects to invest and even pay attention emotionally to what's happening at home and misses all the ways the family STILL needs support. Creates a situation - "the AP is in need" - to step over the boundaries that are there for a reason. Another "justification" for an A - "s/he needed me". Maybe the WS assumes that simply by being home, they are doing a great job as a spouse and their BS needs for nothing. imo that also brings in compartmentalization and projection - the WS can tell him or herself that the BS doesn't really need him or her the same way the AP does because the WS him or herself feels stable at home. But not inside.

ETA: The idea of "I am head of my castle, I am a good provider, so my castle is protected," and then noticing someone else's castle is in trouble and going to check on them... Except then not having the good boundaries to be a team with your family, and letting yourself go down the slippery slope into an A while maintaining that role.

[This message edited by silverhopes at 3:44 PM, February 25th (Monday)]


Find peace. Or sleep on it.

Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.


Posts: 3902 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
h0pe4ul
Member
Member # 38446
Default  Posted: 3:32 PM, February 25th (Monday)

It's exhausting to have to validate someone's feelings all the time. There has to come a time when the person needing that validation has to find that strength within themselves. I am not saying we shouldn't encourage others or build up our WS...but, as soon as we don't give what they want, they will go right out and find what they need elsewhere. More than needing validation, it just shows me there is no real committment to the other party, only to themselves. To be with someone just bc they make you feel good is a shallow thing bc relationships to me are give and take....not take, take, take....not give, give, give...both sides need that balance of give and take. A relationship where nothing but giving is draining and where nothing but taking is selfish. Not gonna work either way unless both parties involved are OK w/how things work in their relationship.

Posts: 185 | Registered: Feb 2013
StillGoing
Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 3:36 PM, February 25th (Monday)

I want to bring up something I posted about in another forum, about a topic which keeps getting repeated here, and that is that our WH felt that we did not need them and/or did not help us when we did need them.

I don't think this is a KISA thing. I think it's a validation thing.

There was a period of time where my wife was openly chatting with OM until I confronted her about it, we had a big argument and she promised me she wouldn't talk to him anymore. During that time, there was a conversation/argument that involved the following exchange:

Me: "Why is it you only seem happy when you talk to that guy anymore?"

Her: "He has a lot of things going on. It's just great to feel needed for once."

Me: "But I need you." Granted I said that last in a kind of whiny and plaintive voice but she was already back to typing away at him anyway and I'm not sure if it was even heard or not.

That exchange isn't necessarily verbatim but it's close enough. See, I *did* need my wife at that time. We also have children that needed her. She really was wanted and needed, but not in the way the OM expressed "need" - and she got her 'ego kibbles' or whatever people call that kind of validation.

I will say that I did feel pretty emasculated by being totally ignored there. Unnecessary. Just some dude who smelled bad and got in the way around the house. I think there are a lot of BW around here who feel completely undermined in the same way though. The "you aren't so special I need you around" kind of thing is pretty universal IMO.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7431 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Pudding
Member
Member # 37168
Default  Posted: 3:51 PM, February 25th (Monday)

This is very helpful. My fWH is definitely a KISA. I think he was brought up very traditionally to look after a woman and he has extended it too far so he becomes the shoulder to cry on, the last person at a work function who makes sure all the girls get home safely etc.

We have discussed this and he now recognises it and we are discussing what kind of help is OK and what is not. He still doesn't get it right all the time.

Funny thing I note is that when I am triggering bad, the one thing I DO NOT want is for him to be my KISA. I do not want to be put into the category of one of his helpless damsels. I am independent, can look after myself. I don't want a lift home. I want to walk myself. I am above needing his flirty gallantry. He can keep that for his ex OW. That is in the past


Posts: 266 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: UK
crazyblindsided
Member
Member # 35215
Default  Posted: 4:05 PM, February 25th (Monday)

There has to come a time when the person needing that validation has to find that strength within themselves.

Amen to that!


BS/FWS (me):40 Madhatter
WS/BS:42 Serial Cheater
Together 18 years, Married 13
DD(10) DS(7)
DDay(s) 5/08, 5/09, 3/30/12
Final Dday 7/11/14 Affair never ended

Posts: 2266 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: California
silverhopes
Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 4:08 PM, February 25th (Monday)

It's really just predatory behavior of looking for the "weak" to feed themselves.

I've definitely seen this too. Or seen people outright take the role of predator in order to find someone to abuse - they save someone, and then the person owes them forever, or if their whole goal was to prey from the very start then they become the next abuser, which then calls for another "KISA"... Sick, sick, sick. And the "damsel" might have their own KISA complex of saving the abuser from him/herself, or else a learned helplessness to keep themselves searching for and "needing" KISAs. Like you said, tending their own drama llamas.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.

Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.


Posts: 3902 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
NikkiD
Member
Member # 38173
Default  Posted: 4:09 PM, February 25th (Monday)

Silverhopes and Stillgoing..

GRAET points!


"Spoil me with Loyalty; I can finance myself...."
ME: BS-33
HE: WS-32
Married 3 years, known 20
2 kids
D-Day #1 12/30/12
False Recovery
D-Day #2 1/21/14
LTA 5 years-ish
Riding the "Struggle Bus"
Living apart....

Posts: 668 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
catlover50
Member
Member # 37154
Default  Posted: 5:46 PM, February 25th (Monday)

I agree that a person needs to provide their own validation; and that's what IC is for. I do think, however, rightly or wrongly, that many men feel better about themselves, and their wives, if they feel that they are being appreciated for their efforts. I also know that my own fWH lost sight of me and himself for a time and that likely no amount of validation from me would have reached him (and I did try). So they need to do the work on themselves too.



Dday -9/24/2012
Reconciling

Posts: 1728 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: northeast
IrishLass518
Member
Member # 34373
Default  Posted: 8:11 PM, February 25th (Monday)

During one of the last arguments I had with xWH he shouted at me "You don't even NEED me! You do everything around here." He was right, he was gone so much playing fanatsy KISA that I became capable and self reliant.
What he didn't understand was that I never NEEDED him, I was always capable of making my own money, running the household, paying the bills. I just really WANTED to be with him for the rest of my life and that is so much more powerful. Now, I am happy alone and I am very capable


Me: 46 BS Divorced
Him: 45 Married OW
DDay: 07/04/2008
Divorced: 06/15/2011
5 kids: IrishLass 27,IrishLad 25, IrishLass 23, IrishLad 21 and IrishLad 12
"You can't run from trouble..there ain't no place that far"

Posts: 1728 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: WA
Sad in AZ
Member
Member # 24239
Default  Posted: 10:16 PM, February 25th (Monday)

With the X it was definitely not about control. It was about making himself look better to make himself feel better.

Before I knew the phrase KISA, I called it 'picking up strays'. It didn't matter if it was a man or a woman; the X always found the most down-trodden person in the crowd and befriended them. They could be the most screwed up, white-hot mess of a human being, but he was their best buddy. He has serious self-esteem issues, and this made him feel better about himself.


I solemnly swear that I am up to no good.

Posts: 20035 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Upstate NY
luvedmypbear
Member
Member # 25690
Default  Posted: 6:24 AM, February 26th (Tuesday)

My ex is a KISA

during our most recent R attempt, he "had to help the female bartender close the place and take out the garbage for her".....and he "had to give her his number becuse she was going through a really tough time"

but

he never in well over 14 years has ever taken the garbage out for me.......or listened when I was going through a tough time
and he wonders why no more R ever for us!

[This message edited by luvedmypbear at 6:27 AM, February 26th (Tuesday)]


D-Day July 14, 2009
3 kids (B7, G6, B2)
BW, 37
D and healing, one day at a time

Posts: 1034 | Registered: Sep 2009
trebleclef
Member
Member # 33488
Default  Posted: 9:19 AM, February 26th (Tuesday)

Lots of great points in this discussion - and all of them apply to my STBXWH/KISA.

The #1 thing that attracted me to him 43 years ago was his gallantry. Had no idea the trouble that would bring.

What started out as admirable has grown to become pathological and damaging. Both of his OWs were DID (dumsels in distress)
He wanted to buy OW1 a dinner theatre ticket (to see MY show) because "she doesn't get out much", wanted to bring her home for supper "because she's worked so hard today" and when I said no he took her out for supper instread. He hauled rocks for her ( wouldn't for me) fixed up her place, fixed her car, drove her around, gave her parenting advice, gave her MY foot massage bath for her poor tired tootsies, took her out to eat every day. She gave him ego kibbles. And used him as a sugar daddy. MOW2 was an immigrant who needed him. To help her with English as a second language, he signed up as a tutor (neglected to tell me for months) He spent weeks and $ renovating her new love nest room. Even her BH tried to tell me, "oh he nice man, he helping business". (Really? 20 Business calls a day at all hours? )

I am so sick of hearing how "nice" he is. He has made a career of it. but it is not about the people, it is about how he is SEEN.

Interestingly, some narcissists love to be KISA because it makes them look good.

I think this describes him.
Also:
- lack of validation in FOO. Looking for approval
- bottomless pit in terms of needing pats on the hand/head.
- thrives on the "everybody loves D"
- engages WAY over the normal convention with absolutely everyone but particulary females. ( I had to meet him for business the other day and as I listened to his tired old lines to all and sundry, I thought to myself that he uses his charm to grease all relationships. He's just a gigantic "tube of lube", lol)

He told me that:

OW1 reminded him of his sister who died of alcoholism that he wasn't able to "save".
He needs someone to "take care of."
( how about me?)
MOW2 admires his business acumen and gives him validation.

He has now rewritten our history so that "Treblclef" didn't admire and pat him enough and he was justified in getting that elsewhere. I think the sex was just a bonus.

The term "knight in shining armor" is one he has used himself forever - as a compliment of course. I'm sick of hearing it. He has such an overwhelming need to impress and get attention and strokes for doing it!
No "secret" deeds for him. His pathological need to be seen as the good guy has taken over his life and affects every decision he makes.

I have to keep reminding myself that there is a huge difference in being SEEN as the good guy, and BEING a good guy. For him it's all about what people will think of him and what he will get back.

Like many things, being a KISA is a good trait that turns malignant in excess.



True remorse isn't followed by a "but".

Posts: 1809 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: Alberta
sailorgirl
Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 12:39 PM, February 26th (Tuesday)

My WH is naturally empathetic and chose to become a doctor because he honestly wanted to relieve suffering. He likes to be useful and helpful. It's part of his personality and it can be very positive.

However, there's a dark side. Because of an abusive, alcoholic FOO, WH is uber sensitive to feeling like a failure. When he's under a lot of stress, mistakes don't feel like mistakes--they feel like proof that he is an inferior, unworthy person.

So, when WH thought he may have made a big mistake in research (turned out he didn't), this triggered shame that he wasn't good enough and fear that I would find out that he didn't deserve me, and a general emptiness.

What could he do to avoid these awful feelings of insecurity and weakness? Enter WH the KISA. Time to duck into the phone booth and don the Captain Save-a-ho tights (Thanks, NikkiD)

It wasn't that WH really cared about OW. He wanted to feel better, and being a KISA let him feel powerful and important.

Once upon a time there was a beautiful, sweet princess (friendless, workaholic, damaged OW with zero self-esteem).

A wicked witch trapped the princess in a tower. (OW manipulated WH for months until he saw her as an abandoned, innocent victim of child abuse who desperately needed him.)

The princess sent a secret message to her noble KISA. (OW told WH that if she died, her body would rot alone in her apartment because no one cared about her.)

Valiant KISA galloped over hill and dale to the tower. (WH drove to her apartment and found her naked, sobbing in her bed.)

The KISA swept up the princess and rescued her, and they lived happily ever after. (WH fucked OW.)

However, WH actually loves me and our family is the most meaningful thing in his life . . . He was hit with guilt, shame and fear of losing us whenever he couldn't keep the A compartmentalized and separate from us. So, he would try to end the A. OW would get desperate, hysterical, and threaten suicide, and *fanfare, please* KISA would ride again.

[This message edited by sailorgirl at 12:43 PM, February 26th (Tuesday)]


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
crazyblindsided
Member
Member # 35215
Default  Posted: 1:27 PM, February 26th (Tuesday)

Like many things, being a KISA is a good trait that turns malignant in excess.

Isn't that the truth!

[This message edited by crazyblindsided at 1:27 PM, February 26th (Tuesday)]


BS/FWS (me):40 Madhatter
WS/BS:42 Serial Cheater
Together 18 years, Married 13
DD(10) DS(7)
DDay(s) 5/08, 5/09, 3/30/12
Final Dday 7/11/14 Affair never ended

Posts: 2266 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: California
realitybites
Member
Member # 6908
Default  Posted: 3:01 PM, February 26th (Tuesday)

You all realize that they don't become "kisa's" for others until they have trained us BS's to do absolutely EVERYTHING at home. They do nothing at home...or very little, or procrastinate so we learn to train ourselves to be self sufficient. We pay the bills, we take care of the kids, we take care of the house...we do it because we love them and think we are being oh so helpful.

Then they take off and give it to someone else and tell us that we don't need them. Crazy backwards thinking.


Posts: 5634 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: florida
CantacceptThis
New Member
Member # 37289
Default  Posted: 3:24 PM, February 26th (Tuesday)

This has been an eye-opening topic. I'm wondering how does it jump from listening/providing advice to the DIDs to screwing them? And in doing so, jeopardizing EVERYthing??

[This message edited by CantacceptThis at 3:27 PM, February 26th (Tuesday)]


Me: 41
Him: 40 (PA with ex g/f from 20 years ago)
DDay: 10-20-2012, then more details on
10-25-2012 (worst day of my life)
The trusting ship has sailed...no clue when or if it will ever dock again!

Posts: 31 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: Midwest, USA
crazyblindsided
Member
Member # 35215
Default  Posted: 4:01 PM, February 26th (Tuesday)

You all realize that they don't become "kisa's" for others until they have trained us BS's to do absolutely EVERYTHING at home. They do nothing at home...or very little, or procrastinate so we learn to train ourselves to be self sufficient. We pay the bills, we take care of the kids, we take care of the house...we do it because we love them and think we are being oh so helpful.

Then they take off and give it to someone else and tell us that we don't need them. Crazy backwards thinking.

Wow I'm speechless. It is EXACTLY my situation. My WH said he felt I didn't need him. Well duh after not being helped with 2 kids for so long no I'm not gonna need his help. They are idiots, the lot of them


BS/FWS (me):40 Madhatter
WS/BS:42 Serial Cheater
Together 18 years, Married 13
DD(10) DS(7)
DDay(s) 5/08, 5/09, 3/30/12
Final Dday 7/11/14 Affair never ended

Posts: 2266 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: California
NikkiD
Member
Member # 38173
Default  Posted: 4:51 PM, February 26th (Tuesday)

You all realize that they don't become "kisa's" for others until they have trained us BS's to do absolutely EVERYTHING at home. They do nothing at home...or very little, or procrastinate so we learn to train ourselves to be self sufficient. We pay the bills, we take care of the kids, we take care of the house...we do it because we love them and think we are being oh so helpful.
Then they take off and give it to someone else and tell us that we don't need them. Crazy backwards thinking.

Cheese-its........that's it. We need to get some male insight on how in the hell it goes from helpful to fycking


"Spoil me with Loyalty; I can finance myself...."
ME: BS-33
HE: WS-32
Married 3 years, known 20
2 kids
D-Day #1 12/30/12
False Recovery
D-Day #2 1/21/14
LTA 5 years-ish
Riding the "Struggle Bus"
Living apart....

Posts: 668 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
onel0ve25
Member
Member # 35974
Default  Posted: 1:43 AM, February 27th (Wednesday)

My husband is definitely a KISA!

Affair #1: He was "saving" HoWorker from her evil husband who worked 2 jobs to support her and their child which caused him to not provide the unappreciative spoiled gold digger with enough attention.

Affair #2: He had to "save" Army Whore from the horrible situation between baby daddy #2 and her daughter. The girl told everyone he was molesting her, and CPS got involved, so she just HAD to have a shoulder to cry on about her horrible choices in men. And while I understand that is a HORRIBLE thing that happened, I don't feel an ounce sorry for her, I only feel sad for her innocent daughter.

Boundaries now include: NO HELPING ANYONE BUT YOUR WIFE, MOTHER & SISTER! I don't care if the woman needs CPR or for someone to talk her off a ledge, you scream for help & get your ass home. Sad...but HE put himself in the situations to require such boundaries.


Me: 21, 1 EA/PA 5/10-6/10
Him: 24, multiple online EAs, 2 EA/PAs 7/10-2/12
Our littles: Bunny, 3 & Teddy, 5 <3
A couple of mad hatters hoping for a happy ending...
Together 7 years, Married 3 years
I won't stumble upon something behind me.

Posts: 108 | Registered: Jun 2012
SusanR
Member
Member # 29368
Default  Posted: 5:01 AM, February 27th (Wednesday)

In MC, we discussed this phenomenon. He said he was attracted to me because I was smart, capable, strong, and independent and than he picked somebody totally opposite to have an A with.

I believe it was more about him needing external validation. I was pretty wrapped up in my work and hobbies and staying sober. I think he wanted someone that "needed" him and he knew I didn't.

Doesn't make what he did okay but it helps me to understand his weakness. I actually look for ways to make him feel needed now. I have given myself permission to be weak at times so he can be my KISA.

It's a fine line to walk (being needy but not too needy) but I see him "light up" whenever I ask him for help, ask him to take care of something, or state that he is better at something than I am.


Posts: 1931 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Midwest
StillGoing
Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 7:21 AM, February 27th (Wednesday)

Cheese-its........that's it. We need to get some male insight on how in the hell it goes from helpful to fycking

As in, do KISAs just bullshit their way into Vaginatown?

I'm sure some do, but that's not really a KISA imo, it's some dbag playing a woman. These men and women who portray as a KISA aren't just in it for sex but for all the other validation and look-good reasons that come with it. Sex happens as part of the HowCanIEverRepayYou thing sure, or ICanBeABetterManWithYouSavingMe shit, but the sex is just one part of the picture, not the end result IMO.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7431 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
OnAnIsland
Member
Member # 34319
Default  Posted: 3:43 AM, February 28th (Thursday)

My WH broke no contact in October because he was worried about her. Here is what he said of their emotional connection in the affair. She had so much on her plate- so much up in the air. And he was the only one who really knew her and could support her.

In his case, he believed these things about her, and she set him up to fill those needs. i.e. fueled that image of being the only person on the continent who really understood her, etc. and granted this was pure B$. While they had met years ago and had a brief fling, that was it. He didn't really know her. I would argue that he still doesn't.

And he went out of the way to be there for her, while I really needed his support, since we had moved away from my career, family, friends, support network......KISA thing only seems to operate for needy others- not for your own partner....


D-day: Christmas 2011
D-day 2: 3/28/2013

Married for over 15 years
2 beautiful boys in elementary school

You may not control all the events that happen to you, but you can decide not to be reduced by them. Maya Angelou


Posts: 1478 | Registered: Dec 2011
stillhere09
Member
Member # 24924
Default  Posted: 6:20 AM, February 28th (Thursday)


Boundaries now include: NO HELPING ANYONE BUT YOUR WIFE, MOTHER & SISTER! I don't care if the woman needs CPR or for someone to talk her off a ledge, you scream for help & get your ass home. Sad...but HE put himself in the situations to require such boundaries.

The above quote is the only way to save a KISA from himself! That boundary is a must.

My KISA took OW home from work while I had to walk home from work. 4 miles in such extreme heat I just about had a heat stroke. I'll never forget that day. I had locked my key in the car, and I called him because I knew he was on his way home from work and he had a spare key to my car. It would have worked out fine, but he had to take his slut home first.

That's just one example of many.

Catlover, I do see your point. I thought the same way. Everyone needs to feel needed. I never could figure it out, but for some reason, it wasn't enough that I needed him. He had to be needed by other females, too.

Even when he was helping me with something, if I was at work, he had to seek others. He wasn't capable of being an adult and entertaining himself for a few hours. He had to play the hero ALL the time.

When I see KISA my mind automatically interprets it with an SS on the end - kissass.

My KISA would "help" even men. It took me years to realize why. These men who needed help had a wife or daughter that he was after. They became his prey.

As someone pointed out, the KISA is often the prey of a user who cares not that she is destroying his M. She wants to destroy his M so that she gets all his money, time and attention. She's too stupid to realize that all his money will go to alimony & child support if the M ends.

I saw this trait in my H when we were in our first years of M. I told him I admired him for his helpful ways and I wanted to be his partner in it. I figured that was the smartest way for me to handle it, because I saw what a problem it could become. OH, NO! No, he didn't want that. HE wanted to get ALL the glory himself. Big waving red flag!

A KISA ia a predator looking for his prey, plain and simple, no matter what they try to tell you, that's the way it is. They often find a user who is after prey herself, and they get sucked in. Serves them right.


Me-50 BW
Him-55,STBXWH

Walk a Mile In My Shoes
Married 14 yrs. Now Separated & in NC
2 grown DD's - his from previous M
4 grown kids (2DS, 2DD) mine from previous M


Posts: 3020 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: Ohio
KBeguile
Member
Member # 38348
Default  Posted: 10:02 AM, February 28th (Thursday)

I'm just going to say this to agree with this thread: KISAs NEED to establish boundaries for themselves, or they're just going to end up repeating similar behaviors. It's one of the first things Heart pointed out with me, and I've kept it forefront of mind ever since.


Me: fWS 32
Her: BS 35 (HeartInADustpan)
DS: 4yo
M: 7 years
DDays: 2012/11/14, 2013/02/05, 2013/03/09
-
"Everything that happens now is happening 'now.'"
"What happened to 'then'?"
"We passed 'then.'"

Posts: 795 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: St. Louis
NikkiD
Member
Member # 38173
Default  Posted: 10:10 AM, February 28th (Thursday)

And he went out of the way to be there for her, while I really needed his support, since we had moved away from my career, family, friends, support network......KISA thing only seems to operate for needy others- not for your own partner....

Thats is the part that fycks me up. Sure I can fend for myself, but sucka, I married you so you could be MY HELPMATE not every damn body elses.


"Spoil me with Loyalty; I can finance myself...."
ME: BS-33
HE: WS-32
Married 3 years, known 20
2 kids
D-Day #1 12/30/12
False Recovery
D-Day #2 1/21/14
LTA 5 years-ish
Riding the "Struggle Bus"
Living apart....

Posts: 668 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
HFSSC
Member
Member # 33338
Default  Posted: 10:52 AM, February 28th (Thursday)

I'm wondering how does it jump from listening/providing advice to the DIDs to screwing them? And in doing so, jeopardizing EVERYthing??

JM asked me this one day. He said he had never intended for anything to happen, he was only trying to be her friend. He could not understand how he ended up getting kicked out of our house and then in bed with her.

Then he said he was afraid that while he was getting his sh*t together, some guy who already had it together would come along and "rescue" me. I told him the answer to both those questions was the same: I had boundaries and he didn't.

I said to him, "You didn't protect yourself and you didn't protect us. First you opened up your life to her. Then you opened up your heart to her. Then you opened up your pants."

That's how it happened for us.


Me, 47
Him, 40 (JMSSC)
married 17 years. In R. We are making it. The past does not define who we are today.

Posts: 2710 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: South Carolina
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 11:24 AM, February 28th (Thursday)

I get that. But when I needed him he wasnt there for me. I lost my grandfather and father within 6 mos of each other. He wasnt there for me. When I did ask for his help, he would literally tell me "you're smart, you'll figure it out"...I guess the wheel that squeaks the loudest gets the most oil

I think people assume that the "saving" is altruistic. Not at all. It's like any collector. Needs new sources. You've been collected. Now for fresh.

They aren't seeing anyone's pain with the empathy part of the brain anymore than sharks see floundering as something need to assist with. They're looking for their toothpicks.

They just don't recognize the margay. These little suckers can mimic the sounds of baby monkeys then when the adults come in for the save...surprise, surprise, surprise. Deceiptively cute little suckers, and voila...predator becomes prey. 

[This message edited by uncertainone at 11:33 AM, February 28th (Thursday)]


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
onel0ve25
Member
Member # 35974
Default  Posted: 2:54 PM, February 28th (Thursday)

Definitely! I've told him if he wants to feel like he needs to help/save someone, to help his children & save his wife from further heartache. He's been good about not helping since Dday, he's learned that it's not his problem to save everyone & their mother.


Me: 21, 1 EA/PA 5/10-6/10
Him: 24, multiple online EAs, 2 EA/PAs 7/10-2/12
Our littles: Bunny, 3 & Teddy, 5 <3
A couple of mad hatters hoping for a happy ending...
Together 7 years, Married 3 years
I won't stumble upon something behind me.

Posts: 108 | Registered: Jun 2012
mindbody
Member
Member # 27941
Default  Posted: 4:37 PM, February 28th (Thursday)

This discussion sheds some light for me and at the same time confuses me. I'd love to have "the answers" in a clear cut, definitive way that puts WSO's affair in an unmistakable category, labeled with the ingredients and directions for the future. This topic just reminds me of all the possible pieces to the puzzle.

On SI we discuss 2 people having an affair as being "broken". IMO both affair partners want/need to believe they are K(S)ISA:

The word "knight" gives it a far more noble ring than it deserves. It's really just predatory behavior of looking for the "weak" to feed themselves. "Funny" thing is the "weak" they find ain't so weak at all.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. WSO wants/needs to believe OW was less responsible. Perhaps if he believes this he can still be a "dry" KISA. So I am wondering why: because of his own grandiosity, his issues with power or control, or/and resentment:

See I didn't need him, not in that way. And I wasn't going to ever be that way. Just not who I am.

I understand compliments and appreciation. Reading the posts about an insatiable hunger for validation from other people - again, IMO both WSO and OW gave/received their admiration fix while playing the part of KISA.

There's a world of difference between doing something or helping someone while expecting nothing in return and being a KISA while participating in infidelity.

As in, do KISAs just bullshit their way into Vaginatown?

They both put a lot of time and effort into foreplay in the form of conversation, validation, secrets, flirting, justifying, etc. I think and believe it took a lot of thought, effort, and energy to be in a LTA. It eventually becomes impossible to maintain the KISA behavior in an affair.

Needs new sources. They aren't seeing anyone's pain with the empathy part of the brain.

Not a great recipe for R and I'm sure most Bs have thought about both.


Posts: 300 | Registered: Mar 2010
crazyblindsided
Member
Member # 35215
Default  Posted: 4:43 PM, February 28th (Thursday)

When I see KISA my mind automatically interprets it with an SS on the end - kissass.

^ I love this by the way I think I will use it as my new term for KISA.


BS/FWS (me):40 Madhatter
WS/BS:42 Serial Cheater
Together 18 years, Married 13
DD(10) DS(7)
DDay(s) 5/08, 5/09, 3/30/12
Final Dday 7/11/14 Affair never ended

Posts: 2266 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: California
naivewife
Member
Member # 38375
Default  Posted: 7:34 AM, March 1st (Friday)

I was talking to WH about the whole KISA thing last night and mentioned how like with him, so many here mention how their WS's were "saving" the AP while their own BS was in a time of need and were being ignored. This rings true for us as well because we had just had a baby and WH basically ditched me to rescue this OW (whom he only knew for a few weeks) from her psycho-somatic illness - all the while I'm begging him for help with our children and managing our home life. Then it dawned on me - do KISA's help other people rather than their own family because when they help dumsels in distress, they are a hero, gaining mass amounts of praise and validation (which they crave) vs. helping their family, which is simply fulfilling their responsibilities which won't garner nearly as much validation? This seemed to be a lightbulb moment for WH.
It's like if he washes the dishes here, if I'm not busy with other things and notice I might say something like "Hey, thanks for doing that" but if he knocks on the neighbor woman's door and says "I'm here wash your dishes" she would be all "Oh my goodness, what an amazing man you are! No one has ever done anything like this for me." and calling all the neighbors to tell them what an incredible guy he is that he came to her house just to wash the dishes for her. Kind a silly analogy, but you see what I'm saying?


D-day #1 - 1/23/13
false R, then...
D-day #2 - 3/26/13
I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice, of all mischief and in particular of sexual relations with both female and male persons. - Hippocratic Oath

Posts: 341 | Registered: Feb 2013
sailorgirl
Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 10:39 AM, March 1st (Friday)

KISA's help other people rather than their own family because when they help dumsels in distress, they are a hero, gaining mass amounts of praise and validation (which they crave) vs. helping their family, which is simply fulfilling their responsibilities which won't garner nearly as much validation

Naivewife, this rings so true for me. WH was actually a helpful husband and an involved father. But deep down, he "knew" he was a bad seed (childhood abuse, never dealt with). When his fear of being a worthless failure got triggered, he needed a huge infusion of hero worship, not just acknowledgement of responsibilities fulfilled.

OW (let's have it stand for Overwhelming Wreckage) was ready and willing to tell him he was her one and only KISA.


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
DixieD
Member
Member # 33457
Default  Posted: 11:15 AM, March 1st (Friday)

Steven (Stephen) Karpman IDed the Drama Triangle in which there are 3 roles - Victim, Rescuer, and Persecutor. It looks to me like KISAs take on the Rescuer role.

Sisoon mentioned the Karpman Triangle. I fall into the Rescuer category most of the time, but easily cycle through the other roles too. I recognize where this came from in my childhood.

The Rescuer can be seen a KISA but for myself I see the similarities with control patterns of codependent behavior too. I tried to fix situations and people. It was instinct. I'd give an opinion whether the person wanted it or not.

Soon, I would get bored or frustrated if I saw that the person was not trying to fix themselves....and why should they if I was there to do it for them? Then I would drop them and move on to something else. I didn't want the person to stay indebted to me, or to stay in the victim role too long. I wanted them to see the error of their ways and straighten up.

I don't think I was looking to be seen as a hero. Validation from the person was not my main goal or reward. But we all get something out of a behavior or we wouldn't do it. I think liked feeling I was competent and useful, someone with all the answers, until I was expected to have all the answers and then I would get overwhelmed and annoyed. Makes perfect sense.

None of this is easy to identify, especially when you are in the middle of it and it's even harder to change when it's played out a million times before.

Of course, affairs are the perfect triangle, with all 3 roles in play. I found it the easiest to examine and then see how the same behavior played out in other triangles in my life.


Growing forward

Posts: 1767 | Registered: Sep 2011
darklilly23
New Member
Member # 39457
Default  Posted: 8:45 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

So what is it that fuels a KISA?

My stbxh had a old flame call for a shoulder to cry on when she was getting a divorce, however stbxh
knew how much it hurt me, we went through a bunch of MC's all saying that it was wrong and now we are headed down the road to the big D.
stbxh knows that the relationship he has with OW (which they are now exploring feelings they have for each other that would not be there if I had left well enuf alone) is going crash and burn but he would rather go save all his exs than his own wife and marriage.
I just don't get it, what he is getting out of it, or what he could possibly stand to gain.

[This message edited by darklilly23 at 8:47 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 33 | Registered: Jun 2013
soveryalone1
Member
Member # 39807
Default  Posted: 4:51 PM, July 17th (Wednesday)

I am still getting used to all these abbreviations , but KISA is one I think I knew, Ye my old friend had a KISA fantasy for years and years he used to talk about this married woman he was having a thing with , and how he wanted to rescue her away from her unhappy marriage. Guess that didn't work but he finally got his fantasy fulfilled with me and my Ex. He say there chatting with me and with her in facebook messages and I was telling him that her and I were in a really really bad place. And shared a few more things that he later used against me, but he just swooped right in, and began the EA with her , not taking away any blame from her, it takes 2 to tango , they say, and I take plenty blame as well, but in any case , the little that I do know about their EA and now relationship , is that she has driven the 3 1/2 hours to visit him twice now, and just thinking about how badly she wanted me gone and how badly she needed to go be with him makes me ill, but whatever, we feel the pain and process it right? anyways I was 100% sure by now he would have already moved in with her, he was laying the ground work for that before I even left, but He is still in his state and she in still in hers, so I do wish them both well, and all the happiness in the world, but I really hope neither of them try to contact me, hurt me ever again. anyways the whole KISA concept is interesting ... a concept I like better is , hey sir or mam how about you stay the fuck out of my relationship , thanks


jao

Posts: 75 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Vermont USA
Topic Posts: 75