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User Topic: Finances....
Idiot4Life09
Member
Member # 29451
Default  Posted: 5:45 AM, March 18th (Monday)

Hi all. I have a problem that I would like people to weigh in on. It has always been a problem in our 19 years of marriage. My wife will not involve herself in the household finances. Plus she is hiding her own credit card debt. From doing it for such a long time, I'm pretty good at budgeting and making making sound financial decisions.

I asked for 6 months for the amount of debt that she is running up. She is in the $12K range. Put it this way, her credit is so bad that to re-finance our home last year, we could not use her credit otherwise we would have gotten a higher rate. So in the end, I have 100% finiancial responsibility and she is a full owner in the house without any responiblilty to pay the mortgage. Not a bad deal if you can get it, right?!

Her hiding that info is a form of a lie,right? Don't I have a right to be upset because this is forming a wall bewteen us that she will not deal with.

I have tried to involve her in the household finiances that I have been doing since 1993. She won't even look at them. My problem there is that if something happens to me, she will have no clue how to pay anything and now that impacts my children.

I feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place. And I am increasinly growing more and more upset over this.

What do others think? Thanks!

[This message edited by Idiot4Life09 at 5:46 AM, March 18th (Monday)]


There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face...

Posts: 60 | Registered: Aug 2010
redrock
Member
Member # 21538
Default  Posted: 7:13 AM, March 18th (Monday)

Her hiding that info is a form of a lie,right? Don't I have a right to be upset because this is forming a wall bewteen us that she will not deal with.

Lying is damaging to your marriage. She has engaged in lies about her spending for years. She refuses to face the damage by budgeting and being honest. I would say that is a serious problem.

What have you two done to work on your marriage since dday?

I ask because I wonder if you knowlingly or unknowingly struck a rugsweeping bargain together. She ignores your A, you ingnore her spending and move into the future.

I apologize if I am off track.


I don't respect anyone that can't spell a word more than one way:)

Posts: 3156 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Michigan
beforeandafter
Member
Member # 37618
Default  Posted: 9:01 AM, March 18th (Monday)

Unless there is a clear understanding that finances of one are finances of the M, then I believe that you don't really have any room to be upset about her lack of financial accumen.

My WS and I also had a bit of a revelation about communication revolving around finances. That revelation was that we didn't communicate. Although she knew I hated credit cards, never wanted to sign up for them, etc., I never said she could not have them. She drew a line in her mind that she was entitled to purchasing things instantly, entitled to these things and also entitled to ignoring credit card bills. Yah not a good combination. So now after her A, I realize that our lack of communication about finances greatly contributed to the walls leading to her A. I think she is frustrated by my draconian (think Dave Ramsey) response to her hidden debt, but we paid off the highest card and now are working on the card I had to open to consolodate her multitude of cards from department stores and bottom feeder offers for annual fee $250 cards that charged 30% interest.

Now we have everything together. No seperate accounts, no hiding any expenditures. It helps me with the feeling safe part, just knowing that I have a way to see exactly where the money is going, but I generally let her take care of the bill paying, etc. For the first time in our M, we are seeing where our joint money goes, instead of simply "Hey babe I'm short can you pay the electric?" Sharing this completely has brought us closer, and made us partners in a new way.

Maybe angle it that way in terms of her learning your finances. In my case the WS was putting a wall up with finances, but in yours it seems that the BS is.


Married 6-10-11
DDay 11-17-2012
DDay #2 6-5-13
Divorced 9-23-13

Posts: 123 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
BaxtersBFF
Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, March 18th (Monday)

I'm all for sharing finances, but there has to be good communication in the M before things start to work well.

If she is hiding debt, that is a problem. So, just curious, how do you approach her when you ask? Is it this cyclical "I've spent money but I don't want to tell you/You've spent money and I need to know" spiral which is maintained because of other fears or FOO issues? How well do you communicate about the rest of the M?

We're fans of Dave Ramsey. It was the one book I read that made the light bulb go on. Super quick read, easy concepts, and relatively easy to do when both partners buy in to that thinking. But we couldn't have done it if we weren't able to communicate. Funnily enough, we did that program before my A, so not sure what that says about communication on my part in other parts of our M...

Maybe this is an MC issue.

As far as you doing the finances forever and her not wanting to know anything about them...again it comes back to communication. My wife is like you, while I'm like your wife. I just don't really have a head for keeping up on the finances, but I can keep within a budget (usually ) when told what the parameters are. On the flip side of that, if I want something that is a bit larger purchase than what I know BW would be comfortable with, I have learned to wait and talk with her about it first. She usually is okay with it eventually, but she wants to put it into the budget to make sure everything else is okay before I can get it. Same thing for her when she wants something larger. We talk about it.

The small stuff can add up quickly though, so I'm pretty much on an allowance, which again I "mostly" stick too...

I doubt seriously if your wife will ever look at the budget you put together in the same way you do. While it may not seem fair to you, it may not be fair to her to expect something she is not going to be capable of. But, both of you could adjust a bit and learn to listen to each other.

My suggestion (for what it's worth...) is to not make it about the money. Find another way to talk about it.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6099 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
thecaves
Member
Member # 38062
Default  Posted: 10:16 AM, March 18th (Monday)

I4L09

Unfortunately I don't have a bunch of background about you or your M but I toss in my opinion in general.

I think that any married couple must truly see all finances as joint finances and should not keep anything separate. Your financial goals should be a family goal and not individual. Unless you plan that later in life you would divorce and retire separately I see no reason to keep individual accounts.

I highly suggest you take advantage of getting a free annual credit report as well from all the major agencies on both you and your spouse. Make sure you use the official site for this so you don't get charged.

Look into using MINT.COM to have a single point that you can go to to view activity on ALL of our accounts. This way you both have full access to keep an eye on the JOINT finances.


Me: WH
Her: BW
Kids: Yes
Married: 20+
D-Day: 12/2012

What defines us is how well we rise after falling.


Posts: 173 | Registered: Jan 2013
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 10:30 AM, March 18th (Monday)

Her hiding that info is a form of a lie,right?

Yep, it's financial infidelity. It can ruin a family and the future. You already had to refinance to deal with her unilateral choices.

It's infidelity just not outsourced, so she's fucking you over instead of fucking someone else.

Not fair to expect her to do something she isn't capable of doing? Seriously? She's an adult and if she's "capable" of blowing the money she sure as shit is capable of figuring out how to pay for that shit.

I'd tell her she either gets help for her spending issues or she finds a new parent. That's complete bullshit.

Let her tell the kids why college ain't happening.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
BaxtersBFF
Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 10:46 AM, March 18th (Monday)

Yes. Seriously.

To expect his BW to get on board with finances to the same extent that he has maintained control is a pipe dream.

Seriously.

ETA - IMO

[This message edited by BaxtersBFF at 10:52 AM, March 18th (Monday)]


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6099 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 11:19 AM, March 18th (Monday)

I must be missing something here Bax, why can't you expect your partner to get on board with finances?

In our M, Hlessons is the one who keeps the budget, he is better with saving, very practical, me not so much, I go along with what he sets out. I trust his financial plan, I don't mess with it. I would expect if I was going behind his back, I should either fix it or get out, he isn't responsible for my mess.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4854 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
MissesJai
Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 11:25 AM, March 18th (Monday)

I have to agree with TG. It's the same with INAB & I. I follow his lead and trust him with our finances.
I would expect if I was going behind his back, I should either fix it or get out, he isn't responsible for my mess.
ditto. And believe me, there was a time where I made him responsible for my messes and it wreaked havoc on our relationship. There was a HUGE wedge and he resented me for a very long time. In getting healthy, I realized that I was responsible for my messes and if the shit was reversed, I'd kick his ass out.


FWW - 41
Fawk you.....pay me!

Posts: 5897 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
BaxtersBFF
Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 11:35 AM, March 18th (Monday)

I believe that most spouses who don't have some sort of agreement in place regarding finances, like the OP is talking about, often expect the financially wayward spouse to "get it" the same way as the financially responsible spouse "gets it" and that just happens so rarely.

You both have some level of trust (me too) in how our spouses plan things out, and we can get on board with them. Can you manage it and understand it as well as your spouses would like you to sometimes? I'm guessing not.

This is all about communication in the OP's post, but the next, maybe simultaneous, step is some reasonable expectations of what the OP's BW is going to be able to do.

In my case, I've tried multiple times to "get it" like gerrygirl gets it. I failed. My mind does not think like hers and I will never fully understand her system. We're fine with that, the same way as you both are fine with your situations.

From the seriousness of idiot4life09's situation, there is a ton of work to do. I doubt seriously that his BW can do it to the same level as idiot4life09 does it. Can she learn some different ways to make changes to not be financially irresponsible? Sure. That's entirely different than what I think the OP is expecting. Maybe I'm misreading something?


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6099 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
NikkiD
Member
Member # 38173
Default  Posted: 11:43 AM, March 18th (Monday)

Ok, now, dealing with a grandparent who didnt know jack when my grandpa died is still a mess FOUR YEARS LATER. so she needs to know.

As for her hiding it, yeah, thats a problem. College dont take debt into consideration so when FASFA sees two parents, they see two incomes...not that you can only afford so much because you got a $12k credit card bill.


"Spoil me with Loyalty; I can finance myself...."
ME: BS-33
HE: WS-32
Married 3 years, known 20
2 kids
D-Day #1 12/30/12
False Recovery
D-Day #2 1/21/14
LTA 5 years-ish
Riding the "Struggle Bus"
Living apart....

Posts: 668 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 11:55 AM, March 18th (Monday)

The OP's post wasn't about not being a financial wizard, to me. It was a blatant refusal to even work with him as an adult partner in managing the family, continuing destructive behavior and lying about it.

You know, affair behavior without the other person.

She doesn't need to be a CPA to get if she runs up credit card debt it's gonna need to be covered from a limited pool that also needs to pay the necessary bills as well as provide for the financial future of her children.

She does need to be a responsible adult, though.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
HopeImOverIt
Member
Member # 34517
Default  Posted: 11:55 AM, March 18th (Monday)

If you're posting here, you're presumably a WS. How long ago was your D-Day? This has been going on for 19 years, but now you are really upset about it? Could she see this as an attempt on your part to divert attention from your A?

I guess you have joint finances? You share the income that one or both of you earn as well as the expenses? In this case, whether her name is on the mortgage or not, she IS jointly paying for it out of pooled marital money. What am I missing? How does her name not being on the mortgage impact you?

Her hiding that info is a form of a lie,right?

If my partner ran up debt and didn't tell me I'd have a huge issue with it. HUGE. But as huge as cheating? Not even close. Are you "right" to be upset about it? Sure. Is this the right time to make an issue of it? Not so sure.

Again, when was D-Day and how far along are you in recovery? Something about your presentation of the issue comes across to me as blame-shifting. Also, the fact that you are bringing this up to us make me think you aren't in MC. I think you should be.


Me: BW (50)
ExWH: (51)
2 teen-age boys
Divorced

Posts: 261 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: PA
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 12:12 PM, March 18th (Monday)

Something about your presentation of the issue comes across to me as blame-shifting

Really?

Cause why is it ok for a BS to lie about shit in a marriage? It isn't. You don't get to lay everything at the doorstep of blameshifting.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4854 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
MissesJai
Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 12:29 PM, March 18th (Monday)

Something about your presentation of the issue comes across to me as blame-shifting.
He wants his wife to take an active role in their finances. How is that blameshifting?


FWW - 41
Fawk you.....pay me!

Posts: 5897 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 12:33 PM, March 18th (Monday)

Blameshifting? So placing the blame exactly where it belongs is blame shifting?

There isn't mitigation for others choices. To state it's HUGE but not even close to an affair is blameshifting, in my opinion.

His affair, his to own. None of her actions caused it.

Her financial infidelity hers to own. He's posting about that and asking if it's ok for her to lie. Nope. Never is. Never will be...regardless.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
HopeImOverIt
Member
Member # 34517
Default  Posted: 1:03 PM, March 18th (Monday)

TO ME his presentation of the issue came across as possibly an attempt to divert attention from his lying.

Also from the original post:

Don't I have a right to be upset because this is forming a wall bewteen us that she will not deal with.

TO ME, this could be interpeted as blaming the spouse for a relationship breakdown, which then just happened to lead to the A.

Look, I come from a family where people pay off 100% of their credit card 100% of the time. I have never had, and hopefully never will have ANY credit card debt. I do not even borrow to buy a car unless they offer me 0% financing. So I would find his spouse's behavior maddening beyond belief.

But neither would I wait 19 years to say something about it. I wouldn't wait 6 months. So why is he bringing it up now? Is this really about her extreme financial irresponsibility? Or is it an attempt to throw a little blame around?

If the OP is 3 years out from D-Day then I'm way off the mark and please forget I brought it up.



Me: BW (50)
ExWH: (51)
2 teen-age boys
Divorced

Posts: 261 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: PA
aesir
Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 1:46 PM, March 18th (Monday)

I do not even borrow to buy a car unless they offer me 0% financing.
You know they adjust the price so that the monthly payment is the same as if you were paying the real interest rate. In fact, you are probably better off financing through the dealer at 29% with the same monthly payment as they will drop the sticker price down and you save on the sales tax.

I would not be so worried about how involved one is in the household finances, as long as they are aware of what kind of bills there are. Some people are actually rather phobic about math and money. Hell, some people are even stupid about money. Taking 6 months to answer how much credit card debt there is by itself is cause for concern. Most people can find out by the end of the month when the statements come.

The real issue is that this was a secret credit card debt. $12K of credit card debt is not even conclusive evidence of a spending problem. Money management yes, but not necessarily a spending problem. Had these credit cards existence been revealed, it may have been a very simple matter to keep it all under control, and it may all have been legitimate purchases, but when it is kept hidden, then the payments are not managed, suddenly only minimum payments are being made, then you are late with one or chose a poor card and the interest rate is up to 29%, and you suddenly have a huge hole that you inform your spouse after it has swallowed a car.

I see this as a very real issue, and not one of blameshifting or diverting attention. And apparently I do have the proper credentials here to say so.

I don't have an issue with being afraid of handling finances, or even being stupid about money, but being so secretive about it is a huge problem, not unlike passing an STD to your spouse because you didn't tell them what else you were up to.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
cdnmommy
Member
Member # 30182
Default  Posted: 5:57 PM, March 18th (Monday)

There is a big difference between blameshifting ("Yeah, I cheated but she was financially irresponsible and don''''t I have a right to be angry about that?" ) and what sounds like a legitimate complaint within a marriage. I don''''t know I4L''''s whole story, but I would hope, maybe too optimistically, that at 2.5 years after his join date they have moved far enough into R to address other issues in the M.

As a BS, I would hope that if my FWH had issues with something in our M, whether it was a pre- or post- DDay issue, that he would bring them up so we could address them together.

I4L, have you addressed this at all in marriage counseling? If your BW is struggling with feeling like it is blameshifting (whether because of how you have worded it, or because she feels entitled or unsure of how to change) then an MC could help guide the discussion to get to a good outcome.

[This message edited by cdnmommy at 6:22 PM, March 18th, 2013 (Monday)]


Me: BW
DDay: Oct 2010 + 6 weeks false R
2.5 (+?) year A with married coworker/my "friend"
1 great kid.
Reconciling and healing

Posts: 1732 | Registered: Nov 2010
UnexpectedSong
Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 6:20 PM, March 18th (Monday)

and didn't tell me I'd have a huge issue with it. HUGE. But as huge as cheating? Not even close.

Money is one of the top reasons people separate. This is legitimately huge, probably as huge as cheating.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6094 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
cdnmommy
Member
Member # 30182
Default  Posted: 6:27 PM, March 18th (Monday)

Money is one of the top reasons people separate. This is legitimately huge, probably as huge as cheating.

While the A was going on, my FWH took money out of our account and loaned it to his stepbrother. He did not discuss it with me, and only told me after I asked him about it. As expected, his stepbrother never did pay it back.

It was not a large amount of money, and if he had discussed it with me I would have probably agreed to lend it, but the fact that he went behind my back still stings. I am uncomfortable around his stepbrother because he is a taker, and he represents another betrayal by my FWH.

The infidelity was way, way worse, but I can see how thousands of dollars in hidden debt and a refusal to address it could be very difficult.


Me: BW
DDay: Oct 2010 + 6 weeks false R
2.5 (+?) year A with married coworker/my "friend"
1 great kid.
Reconciling and healing

Posts: 1732 | Registered: Nov 2010
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 9:12 PM, March 18th (Monday)

The infidelity was way, way worse, but I can see how thousands of dollars in hidden debt and a refusal to address it could be very difficult.

I completely get this. I don't think it's a question of worse. It's actually the same thought process, though. That's what I think people don't always see.

They get so hung up on the "results" of that fucked up thought process and since fucking someone else can be considered the ultimate in fucked up it becomes the focus.

What if other people ain't your thang, though. Do "you" get "credit" for not doing something you don't have any draw to anyway while using the same toxic thought processes to get "your" fix?

If spending money is your "drug" rather than another person there is no "worse" or "better". It's putting your needs and wants over your family and a huge "fuck you" to your spouse who is trying to keep the whole thing going. That's breaking every vow there is and endangering your family literally right where they live.

If the choice is being homeless because the money is all gone or my ex fucking someone else (which he did anyway) I can tell you right now where my vote is going.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
budbusch
New Member
Member # 35946
Default  Posted: 9:55 PM, March 18th (Monday)

I4L,
I will join the rest and agree that lying about finances is horrible. I do not have sound advice but will explain my current situation and what childish extremes you could go though to help you wife “get it”.

My current situation as a single income home is my wife handles the books. Early in our M, BW was not financially responsible. Once the money ran out and we were struggling to make ends meet, I flat out told her she had to take all of it. If she was going to spend money not on bills, she had to see everything coming in and everything going out. It didn’t take long before she “got it”. Granted, I no longer am clear what the finances are but I trust her and I always ask her “Can we afford it?” Yes or No; that’s it.

Now to get childish, you could discontinue Cable/Internet/Phone. You could cook Ramain noodles for a week. Once she sees the extremes you go through to save a penny to pay off debt; she might start to pay attention.

This method is not recommended and not healthy but the fact of the matter is, there needs to be good communication. As you know your wife better than anyone, you should find a way for healthy communication.

Please share what attempts you have made to get her to see your M’s financial responsibilities.


ME: fWH 30
HER: BW 29
OW#1 2001 preM ONS
OW#2 2001 preM cooworker
2002 DS Born
OW#3 2002 preM ONS
2003 M
OW#4 2005 co-worker several months
OW#5 2005 co-worker several months
OW#6 2005 co-worker a few months
OW#7 2010 co-worker a few mo

Posts: 26 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: MD
cdnmommy
Member
Member # 30182
Default  Posted: 10:43 PM, March 18th (Monday)

I completely get this. I don''t think it''s a question of worse. It''s actually the same thought process, though. That''s what I think people don''t always see.

I agree, and I really should have quoted what UnexpectedSong was referencing.

I just wanted to point out that even after the giant shitstorm that was the infidelity, it still stung that FWH made a decision about our money and then didn''t tell me about it. You''re 100% right that it was the same thought process.

It''s too bad that I4L has not been back to this thread. I am interested to know how he has brought this up and what his BW''s response has been. It can be so easy to fall into the trap of "you cheated. I shouldn''t be expected to have to change," but that doesn''t really solve anything.


Me: BW
DDay: Oct 2010 + 6 weeks false R
2.5 (+?) year A with married coworker/my "friend"
1 great kid.
Reconciling and healing

Posts: 1732 | Registered: Nov 2010
NikkiD
Member
Member # 38173
Default  Posted: 9:45 AM, March 19th (Tuesday)

If spending money is your "drug" rather than another person there is no "worse" or "better". It's putting your needs and wants over your family and a huge "fuck you" to your spouse who is trying to keep the whole thing going. That's breaking every vow there is and endangering your family literally right where they live.

totally agree.


"Spoil me with Loyalty; I can finance myself...."
ME: BS-33
HE: WS-32
Married 3 years, known 20
2 kids
D-Day #1 12/30/12
False Recovery
D-Day #2 1/21/14
LTA 5 years-ish
Riding the "Struggle Bus"
Living apart....

Posts: 668 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
rachelc
Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 11:20 AM, March 19th (Tuesday)

It's actually the same thought process, though. That's what I think people don't always see.

yep, raises hand! I was a wayward long before I actually cheated on my husband.. when I hid CC bills from him. Same entitlement attitude.


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...


Posts: 4906 | Registered: Dec 2010
FaithStricken
Member
Member # 34080
Default  Posted: 8:00 PM, March 19th (Tuesday)

I also believe that financial deceptiveness is a form of betrayal. This can be hiding debt as many have discussed, or even hiding assets or money. However, my FWH's sexual betrayal risked my physical safety. He took a risk with my actual life. That's why I personally find sexual infidelity worse. The basic thought processes for either betrayal (financial vs sexual) are the same with the exception of knowing the risk of disease and death with sexual infidelity.

[This message edited by FaithStricken at 8:02 PM, March 19th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 85 | Registered: Dec 2011
Idiot4Life09
Member
Member # 29451
Default  Posted: 9:16 PM, March 19th (Tuesday)

Hi All. First of all, I want to thank everyone for responding to my post. Second, I want to apologize for not responding soon. I just returned from a business trip I was on for the past two days and I wrote this post right before I left. I'm a SR network engineer who is working on a DR solution for my company and I have been consumed with that for the past 2 days.

I just want to comment on a few things that were posted but I want to go back through all the replies and re-read them.

My affair was in 2009. We are actually coming up to one of our Ddays very shortly. During the affair, my head was up my ass and I did all the classic crap - lying, yelling, blameshifting,etc.

I enrolled myself in an anger management course for only men. I sought help from my own couseler. After a few months, I invited my wife into those session, which was hard because that was my "safe" place but I knew if I wanted to move forward to save the marriage and try to repair the damage from my A, I needed to hear her express her pain and except what I did. I own the affair, that is all mine.

We did the marriage couseling for a while but my wife kind of did not do the home work (not blameshift here, just stating the facts).

I actually kept my anger in check for over a year. I know this will probably cause a stir with some folks here but I felt that since I showed my outward appearance to be all calm, I still had the feeling I had before the affair that she was using me, letting me take all the finiancial responsibility on my shoulders. If this was a conversation pre-A, i would have been in her face screaming. Post A, i did not say anything. I brought it up in MC. The MC would make suggestions and my wife chose not to follow them.

Overtime again, it is has been eating away at me. As a few people said in their post, "what is she going to do when all is gone?", there is college to pay for, I have kids braces to pay for, etc...

Now I'm not sure where in my original post that you can say I'm blameshifting. I agree with the post that said that we are adults and as an adult this needs to be dealt with. That is all that I am asking for.

For those of you that do the books in your family with out the involvement of your other half, you can attest to the fact that you feel all the burden of paying the bills. And I guess the other half that makes this more stressful is that I am the primary income earner for the house so I feel that if I don't keep bring in the money and paying the bills that it will be my fault if lost the house or if the we dont have the money for braces or their college education. That is a biggy. My oldest is 12 and I have yet to have a meaningful conversation with my spouse about how we are going to pay for that. And I have a son two years behind her. That is a ton of pressure for only one person to undertake. I am asking for help and take off the pressure of feeling that I am all alone in this financial battle with the bills. I'm not asking for my wife to go out and make a ton of money. I dont even care if she works. I just want to know that we are in this fight as partners not as individuals.

So that is some of the back story and how I feel. I hope that answers some of the questions that people posted on this thread.


There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face...

Posts: 60 | Registered: Aug 2010
RockyMtn
Member
Member # 37043
Default  Posted: 7:19 AM, March 20th (Wednesday)

Is she in IC? I'm not sure what she runs up the CC bills for. Clothes? Shoes? Spa? I guess it doesn't really matter, but it might. From what you're saying...the amount of debt coupled with the fact that you've tried to work on this (off and on) for years, even via a MC...means that she's in serious trouble. Nothing has gotten through to her. And she has chosen not to take responsibility time and time again.

I don't think this is something you can do with her at this point. If you yelled and screamed at her pre-A and pre-anger management, she is going to have a hard time trusting you as she works through this.

While I do think she is an adult who has to take responsibility for her actions, the A may have played a role here. Did you notice the spending got worse? Even if it didn't, she may feel even MORE entitled now to the spending than ever before. And if shopping is an addiction, she may be soothing herself from the pain of the A.

This is serious stuff. Get a professional involved.


Me, BS, 30s
Him, WS, 30s, Steppenwolf
Kids: Yep
D-Day 1: September 2011, 6 week EA
D-Day 2: January 2013, discovered EA was a PA; there was another PA in 2010. All TT.
Goal = serenity.

Posts: 667 | Registered: Oct 2012
HopeImOverIt
Member
Member # 34517
Default  Posted: 9:46 AM, March 20th (Wednesday)

Now I'm not sure where in my original post that you can say I'm blameshifting.

I didn't see that you had registered long ago, so I apologize and withdraw my comment. Since you were posting in the wayward forum I made the erroneous assumption that you felt your infidelity was somehow related to her hiding debt. Obviously I was way off the mark.

I do think you should consider getting back into marriage counseling. And what about seeing a credit counselor together?


Me: BW (50)
ExWH: (51)
2 teen-age boys
Divorced

Posts: 261 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: PA
MissesJai
Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 10:04 AM, March 20th (Wednesday)

I do think you should consider getting back into marriage counseling
That would be ideal if his wife was interested in doing the work. It seems she is not. I4L, is this a deal breaker for you? What is your next move? When you bring this up, does your wife in turn bring up your A?


FWW - 41
Fawk you.....pay me!

Posts: 5897 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
Idiot4Life09
Member
Member # 29451
Default  Posted: 3:57 PM, March 20th (Wednesday)

MissesJai: she does turn the conversation towards the A when it is not going her way.


HopeImOverIt: no worries. I don't post much here because as I type things, I reread it and it sounds like very ridiculous things that I would post. So half the time, I type a whole thread and then never post it.


RockyMtn: some of her cc debit is a result of the A and I know that. What I have offered is to sit down with her and work out a way to get this paid off, even if I have to start making the payments. The only part of that is I did this twice already (pre A) and if I keep doing that, then what she is learning is that she does not need to worry about money because I will come to the rescue.

As far as a dealer breaker, no. She stood by me during the A and after. She is my wife and I just want to make her happy.



There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face...

Posts: 60 | Registered: Aug 2010
cdnmommy
Member
Member # 30182
Default  Posted: 4:20 PM, March 20th (Wednesday)

One of the hardest things for me to learn was not to relate everything back to the A.

It has been a difficult task, particularly since some of the most difficult things we have had to deal with have had quite a lot to do with decisions my FWH made unilaterally during his affair. What I have had to do is realize that some of what has happened might have happened anyway, and some of the things that seemed bad at the time actually turned out better for us.

But, I could do none of that until I dealt with the trauma of the affair. Has your BW done any work to move herself beyond where she was post-discovery? I ask because as much as I felt like I shouldn''t have to do any of the work, I realized that if I wanted my marriage to work I had to get over that and start figuring out how to get things to a place where they weren''t hurting me all the time. My FWH couldn''t do that for me. All he could do was support me and continue to work to show me he had changed.

There could be lots of things contributing to your BW''s reluctance to get involved in family finances. Some of them could be historical, either that she saw modeled at home or that you and she established early in your M. But given that she brings up the A when you try and address this, my guess would be that she is unwilling or afraid to make changes, or perhaps she feels like she shouldn''t have to. That is the kind of thing that could be brought up in MC where you could work on articulating why you need this from her, and she can assess why she is reluctant, with the help of a third party.


Me: BW
DDay: Oct 2010 + 6 weeks false R
2.5 (+?) year A with married coworker/my "friend"
1 great kid.
Reconciling and healing

Posts: 1732 | Registered: Nov 2010
2Old4ThisCrap
New Member
Member # 38771
Default  Posted: 5:25 PM, March 20th (Wednesday)

In reading your post, I sense your wife is reluctant for some reason to open up. You mentioned anger issues. As someone who was called nasty names in a previous relationship, even today, if my Fwh starts to raise his voice? I want to curl up into the fetal position. Even though it wasn't Fwh that was the abuser! Is she seeing anger, when none is meant? My point is that anger issues can be extremely traumatic. And I know I've overreacted when Fwh meant no disrespect. I don't know your history, and I mean no offense!! Just something to consider.

You mentioned she's hiding the debt. In what way? Is she going on wild spending sprees? Has she been bringing frivolous purchases home that she can't afford? Do you know about all her debtors, or do feel she's hiding a CC? And does she work? Is she paying them or is she expecting you to pay bills that are unexplained?

Lastly, are you transparent with your finances? Does she have access to all your cards, accounts, etc? Are all accounts joint? How about email and social media? I'm assuming yes, but wanted to verify...

I'm sorry that you're dealing with this. I hope I'm not being too nosy. But my gut is telling me that she doesn't feel safe for some reason, and I just wanted to throw out some ideas that might influence the situation without you even realizing it...

Good luck!


Posts: 6 | Registered: Mar 2013
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 5:40 PM, March 20th (Wednesday)

But my gut is telling me that she doesn't feel safe for some reason

Yeah, because she's hiding shit she doesn't want her H to find out about. Hmmmm. God, that sounds so very familiar. Oh wait....

Jesus, some waywards haven't felt safe. Are labeled conflict avoidant because "conflict" is closer to nuclear holocaust than disagreements.

And that means what, exactly? An excuse? A reason? I wish some folks would explain to me how the very same behavior and thought processes somehow miraculously have "reasons" associated with it when it's a "BS" that's performing them but "excuses, blameshifting, justification" when a WS commits them?

I have never understood that. Guess it comes down to who you can empathize with.

Truth doesn't work like that, though. Thankfully. Toxic choices don't somehow become healthy based on how much you may "like" or connect with the perpetrator.

The OP has posted this before. Yes, she hides and he has no knowledge. Yes he's transparent with the finances and has tried to do it with her.

Idiot4life, yes your wife stood by you. Would she have if you continued to cheat? I ask because she is continuing behavior that is creating lasting issues on your financial health. Just as she wouldn't be expected to "stand by" you as you fucked someone else, neither would you be with her continued disrespect.

Only you know when to say enough but don't let your guilt be an excuse to tolerate this.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
hurtbutmending
Member
Member # 31655
Default  Posted: 5:49 PM, March 20th (Wednesday)

I would recommend Dave Ramsey's program called Financial Peace University.
It can really open your eyes to the problems of separate and hidden finances. There are some establishments that offer it for free(religious and military).


BS(me)
FWH(him)
MOW insignificant
married 25 years
2 grown children
DDay Oct 4 2009
R - trying


Trusted too much!


Posts: 306 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: Finding myself again
Naivete123
Member
Member # 38715
Default  Posted: 7:22 PM, March 20th (Wednesday)

I'm new, and a recent BS. I am not good with money. My husband initially tried to involve me in the money, to at least make me aware of what we had in case something happened to him. But he was better at managing money,so I was happy to let him do all the bills. 5 years ago I was addicted to shopping. It seemed I couldn't control my spending. Before I knew it, my paycheck could barely cover the minimum payment(I worked PT retail). I had racked up over 10k in cc debt. I would hide statements that came in the mail, then I switched to online statements, but would get the random statement in the mail. My husband happened to open one, and he was livid-rightly so. He actually thought I might of been having an affair. I never indulged with expensive items. It was little things that I'd let get out of control. Simple things like running to the store for gas and milk, I'd just put it on the cc. I like to think I was at a breaking point with my deceit. I was afraid something like this would make my husband possibly want to leave me. Though I really don't think I could have stopped on my own. So tough love. I was not allowed to use cc any more. Cash or bank card only. My husband ran a cred report ever 3 mos. to make sure I wasn't opening any other cc. I was put on a tight budget.

I know it's hard, but she won't stop. It is an addiction, and as with any addiction it needs to be addressed. It would be no different than if she had turned to drugs or alcohol to ease her pain. Just like they tell us BS that our WS made the choice to cheat, regardless of what the marriage is like. She is making this choice that will ultimately hurt your family.


I WILL NOT drink the Kool Aid.

The grass is greener on the other side. But they put chemicals on theirs.


Posts: 60 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: USA
MissesJai
Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 4:30 PM, March 21st (Thursday)

As far as a dealer breaker, no. She stood by me during the A and after. She is my wife and I just want to make her happy.
I can respect that. Just know that she CHOSE to stick by you during the A & after. You are not obligated to make those same choices. Your life, your choice. Same with her. I applaud your wanting to make her happy - just remember at the end of the day, SHE is 100% responsible for her happiness, not you. If she is unhappy, she should do something about that. If she won't, then you have to decide if you can live like this for the rest of your life.
yes your wife stood by you. Would she have if you continued to cheat? I ask because she is continuing behavior that is creating lasting issues on your financial health. Just as she wouldn't be expected to "stand by" you as you fucked someone else, neither would you be with her continued disrespect.

Only you know when to say enough but don't let your guilt be an excuse to tolerate this.

UO hit the nail on the head.


FWW - 41
Fawk you.....pay me!

Posts: 5897 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
Topic Posts: 38