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User Topic: I don't remember...
Betrayed444
Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 10:44 PM, March 25th (Monday)

Hello all. I haven't told my story yet, I don't even know where to begin. Every time I present evidence to my WW about her whereabouts on certain dates and times she " doesn't remember" and wants to see my evidence. It wasn't long ago. I confronted OM. It was confirmed and she confessed only to what I know. What's the deal?

Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
Hearthache again
Member
Member # 28564
Default  Posted: 11:10 PM, March 25th (Monday)

Your WW is deep in denial and the fog of the affair. There are numerous stories on here about this same thing. WS 101 states they will deny until they can not anymore.

Sorry you are going through this. Please read what you can in the healing library. Reading as much as possible helped me a lot.


Me-BS(32)
Him-WS(35)
Married-12 years together 13
Kids 4: 15, 12, 8, and 3
DDay#1 9-26-2008 Dday#2 4-26-2010
We have R!!! But I still hate the number 26!

This too shall pass
I edit a lot because that stupid box is so small!


Posts: 871 | Registered: May 2010 | From: Michigan
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 11:26 PM, March 25th (Monday)

Right now, your WW's biggest regret is getting caught. When she begins to feel remorse, she will come to you with details.

Welcome to the best club no-one ever wanted to join. Sorry you're here glad you made it.

Please check out the healing library in the upper left hand corner. There is some fabulous information contained within. It's gonna answer a lot of your questions, and probably even some you haven't thought of yet.

How are you doing? Please make sure you're taking care of yourself. Drink lots of fluids. Eat when and if you can. Are you able to sleep? If not, it's ok to seek professional assistance. On that note, get tested for STD's. Avoid unprotected sex with WW til she's tested too. Unfortunately, in the land of rainbow farting unicorns where she is, STD's are probably non-existent. Or possibly, he's a 'good' man who wouldn't have done this before.

Sorry you're here

Strength

ETA Does the OM's BW know? Please, inform her. Wouldn't you want someone to tell you?

[This message edited by 5454real at 11:29 PM, March 25th (Monday)]


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2979 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Betrayed444
Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 11:42 PM, March 25th (Monday)

[This message edited by Betrayed444 at 11:52 PM, March 25th (Monday)]


Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
Betrayed444
Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 11:51 PM, March 25th (Monday)

Thank you very much for your responses. She seems to want to reconcile but still gets upset and walks away when I broach the subject. She will get angry or state that she has told me everything which really is nothing. The standard low ball figure on sex, twice over approximately four weeks and went to his home twice then became three times. Sex was clumsy and awful and she just wanted to get home. The basic standard answers to keep me at bay although phone and texts activity were very very active.
She was upset at getting caught. She had no concerns for myself or my 2 young boys, 4 and 6. I'm on the fence about divorce or reconciliation. Ill be a single dad. She doesn't understand that I need her to be forthright about the affair for me to make my decision.

Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 12:08 AM, March 26th (Tuesday)

Demand full transparency(phone, e-mail texts), don't ask. Have her provide a timeline of events 'to the best of her memory'. Call her on bullsh.. answers. Have her create and send a no-contact letter to the OM.

Gets upset and walks away? Initiate N/C with her except as it relates to children and finances. Follow that up with a visit to a lawyer. Get your ducks in a row to divorce. Doesn't mean you have to file, just discover your options. Ask her where she plans to live after the D. Don't use it as an idle threat. See the lawyer, get the ball rolling. Force her to see the consequences of her actions. Protect the kids.

Nothing you did made her have an affair.(Unless you held a gun to her head and forced her onto his penis). It was her choice. Marriage issues? Sure, we've all got em. Rather than fix the problem, she made a different decision. Don't let her shift any of the blame on you.

Sounds like you're making a good start.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2979 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Betrayed444
Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 11:59 AM, March 26th (Tuesday)

Thanks 545. It's difficult

Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
Beautifulmind
New Member
Member # 38361
Default  Posted: 12:19 PM, March 26th (Tuesday)

Betrayed 444,
It is DIFFICULT but absolutely necessary. The "Fog" is an mother effer and all you can control is what YOU do. Empower yourself and do things for you. IMO you have to be 100% ready and willing to Leave your marriage in order to pull them out of this fog and save the M.
Drastic times call for drastic measures.


Me - MH (41) Her - MH (41)
DS's - 11,8,5
Her DD 10-4-14, Mine 8-28-12

Posts: 39 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Midwest
Betrayed444
Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 12:34 PM, March 26th (Tuesday)

Thank you and understood. My "best friend" is gone. I haven't even the fortitude at this time and write the forthcoming novel to get it off my chest. I don't know who she is, where she went, and if ill ever see her again. Her once sharp memory is fragmented. She thinks I'm a fool.

Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
DWBH
Member
Member # 35512
Default  Posted: 12:40 PM, March 26th (Tuesday)

So sorry you find yourself here... it may be more beneficial to post in "Just Found Out"... share your story there... your W is no where near recon-material yet.

Take Care.


Me: BH, 43
Her: FWW, 41 (ThornyRose)
M: 16 years, together 19
2 Daughters: 14 and 12
D Day: 9/25/2011; Lies & TT to 5/4/2012
~Double betrayal; caught them in the act~

Posts: 729 | Registered: May 2012 | From: WI
Jrazz
Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 12:43 PM, March 26th (Tuesday)

Take your time with that novel, B444. I remember being afraid to type because it would hurt too much.... getting all that reality out.

Take care of yourself. That's your main job right now. Check out our Healing Library for survival tips and tricks. Know that you're not alone, and that you're going to be ok.

(((Betrayed444)))


Cherish those who seek the truth but beware of those who find it. - François-Marie Arouet

Posts: 17810 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 12:49 PM, March 26th (Tuesday)

"I don't know/remember" = "I know but Im not going to tell you because it will just make you madder at me,or more sad,and I don't want to deal with that. I am still being selfish and protecting myself,and *I* get to decide what you get to know about me and this marriage."


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling?

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7678 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
Betrayed444
Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 12:51 PM, March 26th (Tuesday)

Confused
That is awesome. Thank you

Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
Betrayed444
Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 12:58 PM, March 26th (Tuesday)

I have wanted to post in the just found out. My DDays were 11/14 and 12/8. Two people. It's very complicated. Karma has also been involved in a big way. This site has been tremendous

Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
wifehad5
Moderator
Member # 15162
Default  Posted: 12:58 PM, March 26th (Tuesday)

PM for you Betrayed444


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 37377 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
Shockleader
Member
Member # 36827
Default  Posted: 1:08 PM, March 26th (Tuesday)

I don't think it's FOG at all, more like CYA, catch me if you can, I'll string you along, TT, and compare stories with OPOS M Fuckers is what it/they are.

It ain't FOG, it's smoke these cowards want to blow up your ass, act "dumb", play the meaning of is shit. BTW, please, DO NOT consider a damn word WW or OPOS co-cheater say as anything but collaborative lies. I say hammer her ass hard (D right now), and see how that might snap her memory into high acuity... If it doesn't, great!, that much closer to a great life without her.

Best of luck friend.

Edit fer spillin

[This message edited by Shockleader at 1:09 PM, March 26th (Tuesday)]


D-Day spring 2012
Me BS 47
Xcheater 44
One DD 19
Married 23 years
Divorced 12/23/13 Fu*king A!

The cruel, the unkind, those without honor, feast on the tender heart...


Posts: 652 | Registered: Sep 2012
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 1:27 PM, March 26th (Tuesday)

"The fog" is just a way of describing a wayward's selfish mememememe attitude. It's not a medical condition. Well,unless having your head up your ass counts.


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling?

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7678 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
Betrayed444
Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 2:16 PM, March 26th (Tuesday)

It's not a fog. She's covering her six. She is deliberately holding back because one of her concerns is me using it against her in court. Another is that hopefully well reconcile and she can sweep it under the rug. Her stance is basically show me the proof then I might confirm it.

Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 2:17 PM, March 26th (Tuesday)

Show her nothing.

You don't have to reveal your sources.

YOU know what she has done because you have seen the evidence...and she knows what she has done.

This isn't a court of law...you don't have to prove shit to her.


NEVER reveal your sources.


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling?

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7678 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
Jospehine85
Member
Member # 35971
Default  Posted: 2:31 PM, March 26th (Tuesday)

So sorry for you Betrayed444.

Do go see a lawyer. You need to know what your rights are, what likely custody arrangements will occur, if the affair will have any bearing on a divorce settlement.

You will feel safer after you know your rights and what is likely to happen if you chose D.

Very, very few WS seem to confess all on Dday. On these forums the majority dribble out the truth over the first couple months.

Keep in mind, the overriding emotion your WW is probably feeling is SHAME. Having to tell you specifics probably feels like she is having her nose rubbed in her own poo. Withholding info makes her feel like she is retaining dignity.

You might want to point out to her that the likelihood of you batting 1000 and finding ALL the info is close to zilch. So the fact that she has confessed to only what she THINKS (insinuate you know more that you haven't revealed) you know, pretty much means there is more.

Do NOT tell her the info you know. Do not tell her where you got it.

Is she in IC?


Me - BS 40s
WH - 50s
4 Kids
Dday May 2012

Posts: 893 | Registered: Jun 2012
noprincess
Member
Member # 38660
Default  Posted: 2:48 PM, March 26th (Tuesday)

Hi Betrayed444,

So sorry you are here. I'm relatively new and wish I found SI earlier because I made some mistakes when dealing with my H's affair.

After my 1st D-Day, my H, like your W, would only parrot back what I already knew and confronted him with. Here's where I made the mistake - I did reveal the source of some (not all!) of my info. H was in NC for 2 months, then resumed the A and took it underground. Resulting in D-Day #2. As the wise ones on this form have already said: DO NOT REVEAL YOUR SOURCES.

I know this is brutal stuff so pace yourself Betrayed444. You are not getting all the information - on that I'd bet the farm. Take care of and protect yourself and your children first.


"Never, never, never give up." - Winston Churchill

Posts: 138 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Pennsylvania
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 4:31 PM, March 26th (Tuesday)

I'm on the fence about divorce or reconciliation.

Other than the children, can I ask why? You seem to have a decent grasp on the difference between remorse and regret. She says she wants to reconcile yet shows you she wants to keep the A hidden. Is a marriage without complete transparency an option? Do you have the texts/e-mails yet? From your earlier statement, I assume you are in a Fault state for divorce? If not, she has no grounds to hide anything. Heck if she truly wants R, she has no grounds.

On the R side, who's taking the bigger chance? You(that she will reoffend?) or her(that you will use it against her)?

In her current state, IMO, its gonna take actions and not words to wake her up to the seriousness of the consequences. See the lawyer and lay out the ground work for probable visitation and child support. Do NOT let her know you are doing this.

If she is not open to you, slam the door on communication with her. Kids and finances only until she either comes to you with openness or you have finally had enough bullsh.. and filed. Again, you can always stop the process.

The no contact part is for you btw. N/C = no new hurts and gives you time to pull it together.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2979 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 4:45 PM, March 26th (Tuesday)

One of the major reasons WS don’t tell the truth is that they are afraid of the consequences.
Think about it – think back to when you were a kid. You probably did something at some point that you found hard to confess to your parents. They had to pull each and every part of it out of you. It’s the same with your WW; she’s afraid, ashamed or embarrassed to tell you the truth.

The only way IMHO to get the truth out is to make not telling the truth too expensive.
Sort of make the truth the lesser of two evils for her.

What you can do is compile a list of key issues you need answered. The answers to those will probably generate a new list with further questions, but start off with the general major issue list. Then make it clear to your wife that there is not the slightest chance in hell that you two can reconcile and/or the marriage be saved UNLESS it’s from a base of total truth.
You have to be firm on this: Without the truth there really isn’t any need or requirement to work on the marriage. There really isn’t a realistic option to reconcile. So why spend any effort on a doomed project. So if she wants to divorce she keeps her mouth shut – if she wants to work on the marriage then the price for the possibility of that option is speaking frankly about the affair.

At the same time you need to understand and possibly get some points across to your wife:
You have to make it clear to her that whatever she says is not likely to make things worse. That discovering she had sex with him 5 times rather than 4, that she did 29 positions rather than 6 or whatever won’t really make things much worse. Sort of like being stuck by a needle won’t really make much of a difference if you are being hacked by a sword at the same time.

Then you have to realize the questions need to have a purpose. For example – I have seen more cases than I care for where BH have asked about OM penis-size. The answer is always a lose-lose item. If WW says it’s smaller the BH doesn’t believe her. If she says it was bigger… well that tends to hit hard. So when you think of the issues you need answered then THINK: Does the question serve a purpose, is it answerable and is necessary for the marriage.

You can also try to create a situation that is conductive to your WW answering. For example: You sit back-to-back so she doesn’t have to look at you. You do this in a controlled environment where there are no kids, phone or disturbances. You give her a list and she answers without interruption…
Like I say - the answers will very likely generate new questions so you definitely need more than one session.
If you get to the stage where she opens up then plan carefully: Take an hour to answer questions, then go your separate ways for an hour to run, walk, the gym… Then spend time together NOT talking about the affair.

Finally – do not hesitate to require a polygraph. Don’t be afraid of leveling the “if you fail the polygraph based on what you have already told me this marriage is over” threat. Remember: YOU NEED the truth to move on.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5565 | Registered: Sep 2005
Betrayed444
Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 5:31 PM, March 26th (Tuesday)

Thank you all so much. For the past month I have been relying on this site to remain as clear headed as I can. Heart and mind conflict so much it seems like a roller coaster. One day I'm for reconciliation then I'm against. WW is loving and intimate but walks away when I bring anything up. Certain music she was listening triggers me. I have built a beautiful house with two handsome boys and I have a fantastic job. My story is long and I want to put it out there in a clear and concise way. It has many parts and I need the perfect moment to compose it. At this point if I go with D I will have full custody with all assets. My honorable side has been doi g the right thing, keeping us together and keeping the boys Unexposed. She really messed up. When she decided to initiate a she said " F it" her words. I tried to explain that full disclosure couldn't make it worse only better. She holds it in. Doesn't talk to me like she used to. Isn't fun anymore. Even sex is not that great. OM is gone. He left the state. The night I confronted him he pee'd himself, seriously. He quit his job and disappeared. The 2nd male never got back to me and broke contact. Too much trouble then it was worth. Your advice is invaluable

[This message edited by Betrayed444 at 5:32 PM, March 26th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 5:47 PM, March 26th (Tuesday)

Don't know if WW would listen, but one of the sayings on this site that has helped a lot has been "You can't heal it if you don't feel it".

Trite, I know, but accurate none the less.

Still stick by my earlier advice though.

I tried to explain that full disclosure couldn't make it worse only better. She holds it in. Doesn't talk to me like she used to. Isn't fun anymore. Even sex is not that great.

Is this really the way you want to live? What can you do differently?


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2979 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 6:03 PM, March 26th (Tuesday)

5454 and I are on the same page.

You can’t heal if you don’t know what you are healing from.

Imagine this wasn’t infidelity but that you discovered your wife was deep in gambling debt. Simply knowing about the debt won’t really help you. You could work harder and throw all your money and savings at it but until you know the amount, how she got into debt, where and how she gambled and felt assured she wasn’t going to the tracks any more then all you are doing is throwing money at the symptoms. Sort of like taking pain-killers to cure a broken leg. IT WON’T WORK.

So until and unless your WW opens up… Well – you are simply forking money into a black hole with no knowledge whatsoever when it will end or if it will end.

Make keeping secrets more expensive for her than telling the truth.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5565 | Registered: Sep 2005
Topic Posts: 26