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Just Found Out
User Topic: WH says he is hurting too
eyesrnowopen
Member
Member # 39055
Question  Posted: 11:21 PM, April 20th (Saturday)

It has been 5 weeks since second DD ( see my story). First DD is a women he is texting. Second DD is a girl half his age that he was infatuated with (his words). Both were women who worked for him and he went out with frequently for work. He also went to conferences out of town with both. There was also a third women he admitted to seeing as ONS. Someone he does not remember her name. BUT he never had a PA. Even the ONS left in throws of passion and they did not have sex. He says he is no longer seeing anyone and has been in IC for 4 weeks. So have I.

I want to talk about the infidelity and he says I am stuck on this and he has said all he has to say. I know everything and how many times am I going to ask the same questions? He says he is hurting and he was unhappy and unable to express his negative feelings in the marriage. He has been in IC and is learning to speak up for himself. He wants us to meet with his therapist and discuss the marriage.

I am also in IC but did agree to meet with his therapist when he was ready to talk. Now I'm not so sure I should. I told him I would meet in couples therapy to talk about the affairs. I told him I take 50% responsibility for the marriage problems but 0% responsibilty for the break up and the affairs. He says he is tired of talking about the As and wants to move on to why they happened. Very sarcastically stated he will relay my terms onto his therapist and see if she agrees.

What am I getting myslef into? Does anyone have any pointers for me on how to keep the focus on the As? what kind of questions should I ask? Jeeze I think I'm being set up to be the bad guy.


This is the work within, having control over the outcome of our lives. Robert Bly refers to this as “Warrior work.” A warrior fights for a cause, something he believes in. As opposed to a soldier who merely fights for control – power or profit.

Posts: 82 | Registered: Apr 2013
rumorhasit
Member
Member # 38943
Default  Posted: 12:23 AM, April 21st (Sunday)

I have no idea how this works, but personally I would want a separate MC from the ICs. At least that is myplan if XWBF ever wants his family back together.


BGF- 30 (me)
WXBF- 30 (him)
Last Dday- 4-8-13, he left for OW#2
Us- 1 DS 3yo, Him- 1 DD 7yo

Mrs. Robinson- 41, S but still M

"You are braver than you believe, stronger than you seem, and smarter than you think." - Christopher Robin


Posts: 205 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Southern California
Josephine01
Member
Member # 38511
Default  Posted: 12:56 AM, April 21st (Sunday)

Hello,

I read your story, let me say, I am sorry for what you have gone through.

It sounds like he is utilizing his IC to get out of feeling guilt or taking responsibility for his actions. It also sounds like he wants to shift the blame on to you. To me, it sounds like you are being set up to be the bad guy. I hope this is not the case.

I wish I could be more help, but my h seems not to want to take responsibility as well. He says he knows he was wrong and totally denies a PA. Because he did not have a PA in his mind (which I am not sure about) there was no EA.

It sounds like he is trying to handle this like he would a business transaction gone bad. I would use extreme caution If I were you.

Good luck,
Jose


Me, 42 BS
H, 61 WH
2 boys 19 and 15 years old
Married 24 years

Posts: 314 | Registered: Feb 2013
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 1:10 AM, April 21st (Sunday)

He's lying. AND he's a dick.

Tell him that you're not doing another damn thing until he takes a polygraph.

If he gives you any grief about it, then start stuffing all of his shit in generic trash bags and throwing them out into the yard.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCyL6pa_L4M


Posts: 7239 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
Laura28
Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 1:22 AM, April 21st (Sunday)

Hi honey

He says he is tired of talking about the As and wants to move on to why they happened. Very sarcastically stated he will relay my terms onto his therapist and see if she agrees.

He wants to "relay his terms" he wants you to "move on to why they happened".

I want to make him REALLY hurt. Him mostly but his therapist a little!!!

What gonnabe2016 said!!!!

BIG HUGS

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 1:29 AM, April 21st (Sunday)

Ok, so I sniper-posted a bit ago.

I've now read your profile and see that he's not currently living with you. Good. Keep it that way.

I tell him thank you for sharing and I have to process what he is saying and I need him to leave now. I get up, stand by the door with his coat in hand and open the door. He tells me I am rude and I am an awful person. He says I behave badly, he takes his letter and tells me that I don’t deserve it

Huh. Doesn't seem as if this guy has ANY trouble expressing his unhappiness with you......which is contrary to his claims of being unable to tell you how unhappy he was with you. Do you see that?


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCyL6pa_L4M


Posts: 7239 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
sinsof thefather
Member
Member # 29295
Default  Posted: 3:18 AM, April 21st (Sunday)

He has been in IC and is learning to speak up for himself. He wants us to meet with his therapist and discuss the marriage.

and

Very sarcastically stated he will relay my terms onto his therapist and see if she agrees.


This is a set up. In my opinion he already knows what his therapist thinks ...he's even told you in a roundabout way.

I want to talk about the infidelity and he says I am stuck on this and he has said all he has to say. I know everything and how many times am I going to ask the same questions? He says he is hurting and he was unhappy and unable to express his negative feelings in the marriage.


If you are considering going to MC with him, I think you need to find a separate therapist for it. Preferably one that is experienced in infidelity.

[This message edited by sinsof thefather at 3:21 AM, April 21st (Sunday)]


...second star to the right and straight on till morning.

Posts: 1740 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: UK
isadora
Member
Member # 29130
Default  Posted: 4:33 AM, April 21st (Sunday)

When FWH didn't want to talk about the A, got upset because I knew all there was to know and I needed to stop asking the same questions over and over, HE WAS STILL LYING.

He didn't want me to find out everything because he was scared I would leave and tha was his way of controlling the situation.


Me: BW Him: WH
Married: 10 yrs
4 children: DDs 6&4; DSs 2& baby
2 Affairs - 2010 year long PA/EA, 2008 2 month online EA
Multiple D-Days

I can only control myself, no one else. I do not have that kind of power.


Posts: 4454 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Back home again in Indiana
eyesrnowopen
Member
Member # 39055
Default  Posted: 6:02 AM, April 21st (Sunday)

Thank you all for posting. I found these boards weeks ago and your wisdom and experiences have given me clarity and strength. I also have a good IC who already suggested a poly as an option when WH suggested that we were at an impass due to my not accepting his truths and he did not know how to prove it to me. (see the trend, me bad guy/ him victim).

I see that I am being set up and agree with all posts above. I think he is using his IC as a justification that he is willing to work on things and if I don't go, then I am not willing to work on things. In his mind he is not having an A now. He is going to therapy. Now he is willing to work on the Marriage. If I don't go, I am not willing to work on the M.

I agree with Josephine 1 that he is treating this as a business deal gone bad and he is trying to save face. I plan on being very cautious. I plan to set boundaries with the meeting. 1. I'm here to deal with the As. 2. MC has to wait until we can first deal with this. 3. I am not responsible for the As. Again, any pointers you have for me are appreciated.

Gonnabe2016 your sniper rant is right on. Isadora, I agree, he is still lying, so I have no illusions that he is going to reveal any truths.

I have been searching the Library and know I have to go 180. I'm ready for this now. In the meantime, I need pointers on how to deal with a possible clueless therapist and a hostile WH.

[This message edited by eyesrnowopen at 6:13 AM, April 21st (Sunday)]


This is the work within, having control over the outcome of our lives. Robert Bly refers to this as “Warrior work.” A warrior fights for a cause, something he believes in. As opposed to a soldier who merely fights for control – power or profit.

Posts: 82 | Registered: Apr 2013
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 11:05 AM, April 21st (Sunday)

You mentioned a *meeting*. I hope that doesn't reference a meeting with his IC, does it?

Do.NOT.Meet.With.Him.and.His.IC.

If your WH wants to *do* therapy, then he can come to yours or you will find another one.

If it were me, I wouldn't do shit with this guy right now while he's got that dickhead attitude.

Get comfy in that *bad guy* chair. It's really not that bad a place to be!


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCyL6pa_L4M


Posts: 7239 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
Ashland13
Member
Member # 38378
Default  Posted: 11:36 AM, April 21st (Sunday)

Hi,

My STBXH did the same exact thing with not wanting to talk about the A any more. For a few days he was great and then suddenly displayed shut down behavior and got very angry and defensive.

What occurred to me finally, after some clues came, (the defensiveness was one) is that he was making up with OW and making plans to abandon us again. Also, talking about it for them makes them have to face it as a reality and he works very hard to not face what it truly is-great length to minimalize and even blamed it on me.

I was set up in false counseling in 2012, completely blindsided. STBXH picked the IC and it was of course someone who had to be on the insurance list, but he went first and filled her head with his side and all this sh about me.

When I would go, it is believed she was trying to see if what he said was true. And unless I was detatched and angry or made fun of him, it was a horrible time and worse than not going. She actually stood over my chair and yelled at me while I cried with her finger in my nose. (That was my last session there).

When we hd IC for DD, he manipulated those sessions for six months so I ended that, too and will find a new one.

One thing I find myself noticing lately is the counselors and lawyers themselves. The ones with more splash and flash I tend to be leary about. For instance, the counselor last year drove a gold lexus, had giant gold and silver purses and jewelry and is a very flashy person.

The one I have now has an Audi wagon that's six years old, a small black purse, no make up and hardly charges me any money to go because she heard my story and wants to help.

I don't know if that helps and hope the description of first IC isn't offensive, its not meant to be-it was a try at showing the differences in professional people and maybe clues to watch for as to how things may be.

Along similar but different lines, the L's I spoke with are similar, but maybe its just people and how they present themselves. The one I chose reduced his fees and the one I didn't was much flashier, no compassion and charged for the initial consult.

For me, I tend to prefer less flash or glitz, but I'm not prejudiced or trying to generalize, either. It was just a thought and I hope no one gets mad.

I wonder if any one else notices this about the counselors or professional people?


Ashland 13

The only thing that stays the same, is change. -M. Etheridge


Posts: 1965 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: New England
Ashland13
Member
Member # 38378
Default  Posted: 11:37 AM, April 21st (Sunday)

P.S. The posts that suggest a separate counselor for MC are spot on, in my opinion, so there's no background for either of you when you begin and its a fresh start.


Ashland 13

The only thing that stays the same, is change. -M. Etheridge


Posts: 1965 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: New England
hopefulmother
Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 11:40 AM, April 21st (Sunday)

He is making you out to be the "bad guy", because he is guilty of more. I agree polygraph. If he cares about you, he will do it without giving you such a hard time. (especially if he has nothing to hide) Set up the app, it just might be he needs the actual threat to come clean.


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
The day he stopped talking about her and focused on REAL R. 10-4-12
BF 20yrs
Together since 2000
Married 9yrs with 2 toddlers
This is the exact moment when you can give him what he doesn't deserve-mercy and grace.

Posts: 659 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA-Ebensburg
Josephine01
Member
Member # 38511
Default  Posted: 2:22 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Hello eyes,

how are things going now?


Me, 42 BS
H, 61 WH
2 boys 19 and 15 years old
Married 24 years

Posts: 314 | Registered: Feb 2013
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 2:42 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Hi eno,

He wants us to meet with his therapist and discuss the marriage.

It is too early to discuss the M or for MC.

He says he is hurting and he was unhappy and unable to express his negative feelings in the marriage.

Before he is ready for MC, he should be able to explain to you, without undue defensiveness, why he turned to OW when he was unhappy. Why he was unable to express his opinion. He should also be demonstrating and be able to explain his new behaviors so that he can express his opinion in a civilized way, and that the next time he is unhappy he has alternatives to OW.

When he has reached the above, and you are at a point of accepting his As and on your way to healing, that is the time for MC.

I agree that a lie detection test may really help to clear the air.

He says he is tired of talking about the As and wants to move on to why they happened.

As well he should, as I described above, with his IC. Meanwhile, it is well recognized that re-processing traumatic events over and over is a way to heal.

It really sounds like there is more to the story. The initial story from FWW was she was spending too much time with OM (her boss), they became too close as friends, she would back off, he was a fond friend. I later learned it was two years of meeting for sex a couple of times a month, staying in the same room on travel , sharing photos and stexting.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3964 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
damncutekitty
Member
Member # 5929
Default  Posted: 2:56 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

He says he is tired of talking about the As and wants to move on to why they happened.

Sounds to me like he's pissed that you took his toys away and he wants to make you take the blame for it. There is NO POINT in discussing the why of an affair with someone who has no remorse or interest in fixing the marriage. It will just turn into a huge bitch session in which all the faults of the BS are laid bare while the WS acts like the cheating is the only thing they did wrong, ever. DO NOT GET SUCKED INTO THIS TRAP!


Keep calm and carry on.

Posts: 49406 | Registered: Nov 2004 | From: Minneapolis
Darkonius
Member
Member # 39135
Default  Posted: 3:04 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

My WW says things like this to me all of the time since DDay. "I've already told you everything!! Why do you have to keep bringing it up?", "I'm hurting too, this is just as hard on me!!I will have to live with what I have done for the rest of my life!!" and my personal favorite "your just doing this to finally push me away!! you don't want me anymore and your just afraid to tell me to get the hell out!!", if I bring something up or god forbid ask her a question about it htat she has already answered, she will begin to get very defensive and ultimately create a huge tramatic battle, and in the end she will say "See!! Why do you keep bringing this up? all it does is cause us to fight!!! Is this helping us at all??Do you feel better now that we have had this wonderful few days together and then you start this shit again?". not much help I know, just putting some of my experiences out there as well.


Me:BH/Madhatter 39
Her: WS 42
Children:None
DDay#1: 1995
DDay#2: 1999
DDay#3:3/4/2013
Married:19yrs
Status: Working towards R

You never truly know what Shit creek looks like until you find yourself sitting in the middle of it without a paddle.


Posts: 76 | Registered: Apr 2013
OneFootForward
Member
Member # 39136
Default  Posted: 3:52 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

I have not gotten this far, but my WW says she is hurting too. She can't believe she did something like this. She is so glad I caught her so the lie would be over. It was like it was not even her some of the time, more her looking down on her body. Poppycock!

I have do doubt she is shamed. She was the one who called our pastor and made our first meeting. She came "clean" and I could tell she was in pain. However, the night she came "clean" she was so calm, detached... while I was a basket case. She was becoming the martyr while I was the one being crucified. I honestly don't know if she feels remorse or just regret. She had the power to start this whole mess and she could have stopped it. She had to get caught for it to end, so true remorse... just not sure. That leaves me equally unsure if she just wants to flee back to the safety of the "marriage bed" and all it brings, just biding her time or is honestly repenting.

While I feel her pain, it can't be my priority any more. As a husband, that is a very hard thing to say. My job is to protect her. But she jumped out from under that umbrella when she went to the Om. Now she is stuck between the two... and that can't feel good.

She now knows I am prepared to end the marriage, to save it. If she cant meet my terms then we may have to call it quits. I was not fine with that before, but I fine with it now.

If my WW started to act like this I know it would put an incredible strain on me. I also know I could not take it. That said, I don't want to beat her over the head with it either. I just want her to realize her part in all this and own up to making it right.


Me: 42 BS
Her: 41 EMA
Married: 16 years
D-Day#1: 04/17/13
D-Day#2: 05/8/13
Children: 9,5 (girls)
Om: High School Flame
"Marital problems doesn't make someone a cheater just like financial problems doesn't make someone a thief"

Posts: 71 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Mobile, AL
Tiredofthepain
Member
Member # 37932
Default  Posted: 4:03 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

I agree, every time I would ask the same questions over and over and he would get pissy or frustrated it was because he was lying his ass off!!


ME-BS 48
HIM-WS 38
WS is SA, multiple visits to prostitutes.
Status: Hanging in there

I would rather be told a hurtful truth than a comforting lie.

Posts: 559 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: NC
stilltrying2025
Member
Member # 39145
Default  Posted: 6:51 PM, May 3rd (Friday)

Yup, been there done that. He says "I've told you a hundred thousand times that we are just friends, why do we have to keep talking about it." Duh, because I can't get over it until I know all the details. No respect whatsoever. In all actuality, after being on this site, I'm thinking that he just doesn't want to own his own mistakes....keep making me look like the bad person. Screw that! I didn't give this OW his phone number, I didn't tell him to text the OW and I didn't do anything in the marriage that would cause him to hurt me this badly. You are not to blame. If he wants to do counseling then you go to someone who has no idea what is going on, not to either your IC or his IC, someone who will be completely unbiased! Hugs to you....you need them!


Me: 38
WH: 43
DD: Thanksgiving Day, 2012
Status: Separated

Posts: 184 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Minnesota
westerly
Member
Member # 34280
Default  Posted: 8:43 PM, May 3rd (Friday)

I would agree that this is some classic blameshifting. From what I have read and inferred, it sounds like you're doing exactly the right things here, and he is also behaving like a man who is not ready to reconcile.

Having been through this, my experience would suggest that he's not ready to accept full responsibility for the A, and I am 100% confident that he is trying to minimize the impact of the trauma on you to protect his sense of integrity and self-image. The problem with doing that is that this acts as a powerful block on his ability to empathize, and without that there can be no healing for you or your M.
He's going to have to accept that he will have to pursue IC and MC if you agree to it, concurrently. His healing is his problem, as is his own delving into his subconscious through therapy. All you can do is be supportive, own your share of responsibility (for the M, not for the A!!), and let him either dig a deeper hole or dig his own way out.

I can't see a good rationale for involving yourself with the IC, to be honest. That's EXACTLY the role of a marriage counselor, not an IC. My own IC was adamant about never mixing the two, as the goals of therapy there are wildly different.

Anyhow, I truly wish you luck.


me- 39, American (BS)
her- 45, South American (WS)
1 child (my stepson)
EA discovered 3/10
D-day (PA discovered) 8/11
D-day II, April 8, 2013 (while overseas w/family)
Attempting R, despite relapse.

Posts: 126 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: At sea, away from family
eyesrnowopen
Member
Member # 39055
Default  Posted: 10:44 PM, May 3rd (Friday)

UPDATE: If you read some of my other posts you can see I had some slow starts to my 180. I'm finally catching on. I pulled back and really am taking care of me. It was not easy because I was ping pong between anxious and obsessed with where he was what he was doing, then angry, and than sad. I look at family photos and look at his eyes and think what was behind his smile and how fake he was. For the past 6 days I have had no contact, taking care of me. I have only emailed him, no engaging I smile (force myself) when I see him. Say hello, But only see him coming and going. Each day I focus on my recovery, my joy,My kids. I control my thoughts and anxious thoughts and try to focus on my life and what I want.

He said something that made me shift my focus to me. He said I was unhealthy tracking his phone calls and I needed help. I realize now if I take him back my life will end up focusing on him, checking up on him, wondering all the time about him. I also realize I want more for my life. I want and deserve better than I got from him.

I did not see his IC. Now after 6 days of 180 he made an apt with my IC for himself. We shall see what this brings but I'm no longer hanging and depending on what he says or does.


This is the work within, having control over the outcome of our lives. Robert Bly refers to this as “Warrior work.” A warrior fights for a cause, something he believes in. As opposed to a soldier who merely fights for control – power or profit.

Posts: 82 | Registered: Apr 2013
westerly
Member
Member # 34280
Default  Posted: 9:08 AM, May 4th (Saturday)

I think it's healthy that you're seeking Outcome Independence now. You know rationally that you'll be OK, even if it doesn't seem possible just now.

I don't think any of us find the 180 easy. Many of the steps are counterintuitive, and seeing someone you care about flail about, and not be there to help... that's HARD.

It is NOT unhealthy to track him right now. It can become unhealthy if he has earned some trust and you can't give it to him, but right now the only way he can earn trust is through his actions that you observe. So long as you don't become obsessed for years about his actions, all you're doing right now is protecting yourself by removing the potential for illusion and giving him the opportunity to be seen matching words with deeds.
I've felt what you are going through. I empathize! If you take him back, for a time, yes, a portion of your time will be spent monitoring him, which means you'll be focusing a lot of time and energy on someone who maybe doesn't deserve it yet. If, however, he conforms to your conditions for taking him back, you'll start going hours, a day here and there, without checking, and it will be OK. Eventually this will turn into a week, then a few, then you can stop. If he does his part, repents and reconciles, it will no longer be a matter of devoting energy to make sure he does his goddamned job, but rather you'll both focus on each other AND yourselves... at least ideally.
Keep doing what you're doing. Believe nothing he says, and only half of what he does until his fog lifts.


me- 39, American (BS)
her- 45, South American (WS)
1 child (my stepson)
EA discovered 3/10
D-day (PA discovered) 8/11
D-day II, April 8, 2013 (while overseas w/family)
Attempting R, despite relapse.

Posts: 126 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: At sea, away from family
hatefulnow
Member
Member # 35603
Default  Posted: 6:04 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

My wife didn't like to discuss it either, because she felt like an idiot. Also I was very hard and hurtful to her in the beginning. We are doing better now. What he's doing is right out of the WS playbook. He wants you to get over it. Sorry Charlie. To get past this you have to go through it.

Posts: 118 | Registered: May 2012
Topic Posts: 24