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Divorce/Separation
User Topic: Discovery: paper or electronic?
ChoosingHope
Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 8:22 PM, April 23rd (Tuesday)

I have been served. I have realms of paper to pass over, including 2000 pages of sexts with details of STBX's sex addiction and dangerous activities.

Do I really have to print it all out, or can I scan it all and submit electronically as PDFs?

I ask for two reasons. First, STBX submitted scans. Second, I know he's too broke and lazy to print out whatever I submit. Which would be a good thing for me (though I suppose PDFs are "searchable" - if he goes looking for something specific, he could find it quicker than thumbing through thousands of printed out pages).

Thank you for any insight and experience!


Posts: 1697 | Registered: Oct 2011
Kajem
Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 8:42 PM, April 23rd (Tuesday)

Call and ask your attorney or the court clerk what they prefer to receive.

Good luck,

K


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 5105 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
tammyjean100
Member
Member # 28159
Flame  Posted: 8:45 PM, April 23rd (Tuesday)

{{{CH}}}

To whom are you submitting the documents? Ask that person/agency/etc.

I sent many things to my lawyer via email attachment. Only things not sent that way was any document that needed original signature.

Hope that helps some.

TJ


You can't overcome anything without facing it. Betty Ford

Posts: 2273 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: Capital District, New York
caregiver9000
Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 8:49 PM, April 23rd (Tuesday)

I keep imagining the impact of a stack of 2000 pages of paper vs. a flash key/thumb drive....

CAN YOU PLEASE print it out? Be sure to use the low copy quality and just spend the day with the copier.

The stack of grossness and the paper has that IN YOUR FACE brutal truth that the electronic file will mask. It might set him back on his heels to see it??

Perhaps the expense of providing him with your evidence will "encourage" him to settle. Here's to hoping! (Here's to Hope as well...)


Me: 44, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 13 DS 10
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5824 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
FlySomeday
Member
Member # 35150
Default  Posted: 9:43 PM, April 23rd (Tuesday)

CH,

I kinda like the idea of a 2000 page impact as well. Do you have any local friends who can hook you up with the copier and you just bring your own paper to save on expense?? Just spend $20 on the paper and if someone will let you use the copy machine. Oh...or.....maybe your kids school??? Just saying. Knowing the content you probably won't be comfortable doing that. I do like the 2,000 page impact.
-fly


Digging Deep in the Mud

Posts: 232 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Virginia
ChoosingHope
Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 9:44 PM, April 23rd (Tuesday)

Thanks everyone. I left a msg. with my attorney about it. I was mostly wondering if there is a strategic reason to do it one way or another.

I honestly can't imagine STBX going to kinko's to print all of it out. And he won't pay his attorney to do it either. But if it's electronic, they can probably just easily search for whatever they're interested in finding.

Care, I think you're right. No matter what, those 2000 pages make a statement when you see them all printed out.

Thanks,
Hope


Posts: 1697 | Registered: Oct 2011
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 1:10 PM, April 25th (Thursday)

Hope, I have been stewing on this overnight. I totally think you should copy your printed copies with a substandard copier, and provide one set only to his lawyer. You get the impact of the 2000 pages, the inconvenience of having to make or pay for copies anyway, and the inconvenience of substandard copies. It's not like he bent over backward to provide you discovery.

And then my other concern, that really bothers me. I think you need some backup in place after you submit the copies. Have your dad stay with you for a week or whatever, or arrange to be gone that week. I am positive there will be fallout, he is a crazy SOB, and you need the backup. Keep a video camera or VAR ready in your house to record what transpires. Even if it is not admissable in court, it still has value.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
roughroadahead
Member
Member # 36060
Default  Posted: 8:51 PM, April 25th (Thursday)

As a law clerk in the not-too-distant past, I weep at the thought of 2000 pages dropped on my desk....


BS-Me 30s
WS-Him 30s
D-Day 4/2012 (Insisted EA only)
D-Day 5/2012 (Did I say EA? Ummm..)
Numerous other TT/broken NC d-days until S 1/2013. D settled 11/2013
MOW-coworker, 40s.
2 DS and DD all w/autism

Posts: 737 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: USA
ChoosingHope
Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 10:02 PM, April 25th (Thursday)

Thank you everyone.

I had assumed that I would probably have to supply two printouts of everything. But my attorney said that PDFs are better - in fact, if I handed over printouts, they would scan them in their office.

So believe it or not, I used my Christmas gift certificate to buy a scanner. It was a no brainer, since I know that the paralegal charges more an hour than it would be for me to buy the scanner and do it all myself.

So I am planning on scanning the 2000 pages. And for things like my old tax returns, I will save each little section under its own name. Let him open 50 PDFs to get the complete tax documents. Ditto for three years of cancelled checks that he requested.

If anyone else has any ideas to make this inconvenient for him, I welcome them.

Lastly, I would just like to add that he requested a list of every item of clothing I've purchased since 1996, AND a written rationale for why I should get to keep my small inheritance from my parents - money that I brought to the marriage, and which was never mingled with marital funds. HATE HIM.

Meanwhile, we only submitted about 50 percent of his discovery. We filed a motion to compel - quite a while ago. But crickets is what we got.


Posts: 1697 | Registered: Oct 2011
ChoosingHope
Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 10:05 PM, April 25th (Thursday)

Also, Hath, thank you. I am so overwhelmed by everything he's requested - it's going to be way more than 10,000 pages of documents - that I haven't even thought of the fallout over my evidence against him.

So far he's successfully kept his SA out of any court documents. So you are right, he will not be happy.

I will take precautions. Thank you again.


Posts: 1697 | Registered: Oct 2011
GabyBaby
Member
Member # 26928
Default  Posted: 10:12 PM, April 25th (Thursday)

ChoosingHope....

Do you already have electronic copies of everything?

If so, look online for a (free) downloadable program called Cute PDF.

Basically, instead of printing to your printer, you would make CutePDF your "default" printer. Give it a few seconds, then a save box pops up on screen. You then tell it where to save your PDF file.

This would probably be a lot faster than scanning everything.


Me - 40s
SorryInSac - WH#2 - 40s. DDay 7/12/14
Married 4, together 7yrs total
Status - ??

DD(21), DS(18, PDD-NOS)
6 Furkids - 4 dogs, 2 cats

WXH (serial cheater, 12+ OW)
Legally married 18yrs, together 16.5yrs

I edit often for clarity.


Posts: 6443 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: California
ChoosingHope
Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 10:40 PM, April 25th (Thursday)

GabyBaby - those 2000 pages are Yahoo text messages. Would CutePDF let me open them on my Mac and then convert them directly to PDFs???

If so, I can return my scanner!!!!

Thank you!!!
-Hope


Posts: 1697 | Registered: Oct 2011
Nature_Girl
Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 11:55 PM, April 25th (Thursday)

Every item of clothing since 1996? Seriously?

Really?

Like, even undies & socks? Would any sane human being keep a record of how many pairs of pantyhose (I know, I know) they went through? How about bras? And shall we go into maternity bras & jeans with stretch panels? Do cheap drug-store flip-flops count as well?

What would be the purpose of having you catalog every item of clothing for the past 17-18 years? Don't bother answering, I'm just boggled.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9684 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
hurting2much
Member
Member # 25643
Default  Posted: 5:40 AM, April 26th (Friday)

((CH))

When I met with my lawyer, he specifically asked if I had received any inheritance. And if I did, XWH could not receive any of that. My lawyer also said that any gifts that I got (from family, from XWH) were mine and XWH couldn't have them even if he fought for them.

What does your L say about what your WH is asking for in discovery? I know whatever my XWH wanted in discovery, he ALSO had to provide that same information to me and my lawyer.


Divorced

Posts: 1103 | Registered: Sep 2009
million pieces
Member
Member # 27539
Default  Posted: 5:53 AM, April 26th (Friday)

I think inheritance is another state by state thing. But like H2M said, in MD they are separate from the 50/50 division of assets.


Me - 42
2 kids, 9 and 11
D-Day 2/5/10, separated 3 wks later
Divorced 11/15/11!!!!

Posts: 1246 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: MD
Amazonia
Member
Member # 32810
Default  Posted: 5:59 AM, April 26th (Friday)

Hope, you should be able to convert anything with Cute PDF - are the yahoo chats saved as web pages? What's the file type?

If you need help, let me know - lots of free time now that I'm off school for a few months. (And I'm very tech savvy)


"You yourself deserve your love and affection as much as anybody in the universe." -Buddha
"Let's face it, life is a crap shoot." -Sad in AZ

Posts: 13748 | Registered: Jul 2011
hatetheworld
New Member
Member # 37494
Default  Posted: 6:24 AM, April 26th (Friday)

I haven't read all the comments but could you print out the 2000 pages and also bring in the flash drive or email the Pdfs? That way he gets the in your face effect of the stack but can use the flashdrive for convenience?

[This message edited by hatetheworld at 6:26 AM, April 26th (Friday)]


Me- 23
WS- 26
3 children- 6, 5, 2 (one of which is autistic)
Married almost 7 years in October...
Dday- 11/10/12
Dday 2- 7/2/13 And I'm OUT! It's Divorce time!


Posts: 43 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: wish I knew
Take2
Member
Member # 23890
Default  Posted: 6:45 AM, April 26th (Friday)

We didn't do discovery. If we had, I had 1000 pages of email printed and ready to go, (including those to OWs, me, confessions, and the one where he gave me his passwords).

It looked like we were going to end up in court - and we were ready with a charge of abuse in lieu of multiple affairs, and broken promises to end them.

I suggest as you go through those papers that you save them to a file (or multiple files) and that you label *your* set with titles that speak to content and date. So *you* can search through a thumb drive and/or the paper files easily. But before you label them make an unlabeled copy for him -- I wouldn't provide any organization for his copies whether on paper or pdf. Let them search blindly.

So... on this list of clothing - unless he specified - I'd include children's clothes and any clothing you purchased for him too... Obviously you can only guesstimate, but that is reasonable.

Also remember that clothing expenses are living expenses -- My lawyer wanted those numbers high on my financials. And my X put his at 100.00 per week, (which was laughable).

[This message edited by Take2 at 6:48 AM, April 26th (Friday)]


"We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned, so as to have the life that is waiting for us." Joseph Campbell...So, If fear was not a factor - what would you do?

Posts: 4113 | Registered: May 2009 | From: New England
homewrecked2011
Member
Member # 34678
Default  Posted: 6:58 AM, April 26th (Friday)

Also, once I had the thousands of text messages in my atty office, it got me everything I wanted in my divorce and then we did not have to go to court.

It was used as leverage by my atty to his atty.


me BS 52
him - 46
married 15 years DIVORCED 10 31 12
children - ds15 ds12
d-day 12-19-11
I gave a 24hour ultimatum then went to attorney next day
Divorce filed

Posts: 2132 | Registered: Jan 2012
mistaken
New Member
Member # 29021
Default  Posted: 7:44 AM, April 26th (Friday)

Hope,

On a Mac, you don't even need CutePDF or anything like that.

If you use Safari or Firefox, just go into the Print dialog. At the botton, there is a PDF button. Click on it and choose Save as PDF. Return the scanner and go buy yourself a Christmas gift! :)

Good luck.

ETA: You can use that function in pretty much all software on the Mac.

[This message edited by mistaken at 7:50 AM, April 26th (Friday)]


Posts: 8 | Registered: Jul 2010
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 8:14 AM, April 26th (Friday)

Given what previous people have said, I would make it a priority to get the SA-related docs to his lawyer ASAP. Tax stuff, etc secondary. Because there is a chance it may all settle out of court and then you don't have to provide everything else. And yes, totally label the files nonsequitor and in as many different files as possible.

I know it is not the same thing, but recently when we went to legal battle with a mentally ill landlord, even he was able to fold and settle once we submitted evidence that exposed all the illegal things he was doing that would be on record for future renters to see. I am really hoping this is the case for you. But I would still prepare for fallout, whatever you need for a RO filed ASAP if it comes to that.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
ChoosingHope
Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 9:02 AM, April 26th (Friday)

Thank you, thank you, thank you everyone!!!

I use a Mac, so I will follow the PDF directions!

Also, I am planning on scanning the tax documents and old bank statements and credit card statements with a $1.99 app on my iPad. The scans don't look that great, but they're mostly readable.

I will return the scanner to Amazon and buy myself a pair of shoes and some "life after divorce" books. Suggestions gratefully accepted.

And Hath, today my attorney said not to worry about the 2000 pages right now. But I am going to call him about it. You are entirely right. Ot at least I hope and pray that you are right and we have even a tiny chance at settling this out of court. I'll have to see if STBX's self-preservation side wins over his NPD side. Unlikely but worth a try.

THANK YOU to everyone who wrote to me with such great advice. I am so thankful and grateful to you all.


Posts: 1697 | Registered: Oct 2011
Amazonia
Member
Member # 32810
Default  Posted: 9:13 AM, April 26th (Friday)

Hope, you may not even need to convert to PDF - ask your attorney if the file type matters.


"You yourself deserve your love and affection as much as anybody in the universe." -Buddha
"Let's face it, life is a crap shoot." -Sad in AZ

Posts: 13748 | Registered: Jul 2011
WishingForLethe
Member
Member # 34805
Default  Posted: 1:04 PM, April 26th (Friday)

These days most courts are moving towards requiring all electronic submissions (except where the original is legally required such as a will).

I actually teach estate planning to other attorneys. Although he may be entitled to one half of the income from your inheritance, I do not know of a state where he would be entitled to a penny of the principal. Your answer to why you should get to keep the money left to you should be "Because it is legally mine, asshat!"


Don't look at how far you have to go, but how far you have come

Posts: 350 | Registered: Feb 2012
ChoosingHope
Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 1:18 PM, April 26th (Friday)

Thank you, Wishing. My attorney sort of told me that too, but it makes me feel better to hear it from a second source.

If he can't get his hands on it, he'll just use it to lower support for his kids. I'm a SAHM (looking for a job after eight years).

Also, I didn't even mention that he didn't pay his 2011 or 2012 income taxes. I paid mine separately, based on income from the trust and an investment in my name. I'm sure the judge will consider the taxes marital debt and try to make me pay half of it with the trust money. I will need that trust money for housing for myself and the children.

It's a real mess. I get weepy just thinking about it.

Thanks again. At least you've given me one less thing to worry about today.


Posts: 1697 | Registered: Oct 2011
dreamlife
Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 5:55 AM, April 28th (Sunday)

So sorry you are going through this....what a Nut Job!

((((huge hugs))))


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25429 | Registered: Sep 2005
homewrecked2011
Member
Member # 34678
Default  Posted: 6:16 AM, April 28th (Sunday)

It's a real mess. I get weepy just thinking about it.

The time leading up to my D was the hardest time in my life.But now, 6 months after and I finally feel like I did 15 years ago before I got with this POS.

Your day will come, too. Thank GOD you have some $ to keep in an account for security.

Also, when I would get really down, I would look online for places to take my children when the D was all over. Even a city just a few miles away is a change in scenery. If your children are in school, can you just take off the first week of summer vacation to ANYWHERE?? It really really helped me to travel back to my hometown for 1 week and chill with old friends and family.

It's almost behind you!!!!! You can do this!!!!!!


me BS 52
him - 46
married 15 years DIVORCED 10 31 12
children - ds15 ds12
d-day 12-19-11
I gave a 24hour ultimatum then went to attorney next day
Divorce filed

Posts: 2132 | Registered: Jan 2012
nofool4u
Member
Member # 38509
Default  Posted: 12:06 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

Lastly, I would just like to add that he requested a list of every item of clothing I've purchased since 1996

Any judge or lawyer worth a damn will look at this request from him and say, "really??"

You don't give him a damn thing unless your lawyer says so, and even then you let YOUR lawyer talk to him or his lawyer. DO NOT tell him anything. If he asks anything of you, tell him to talk to your lawyer or send it to your lawyer.


AND a written rationale for why I should get to keep my small inheritance from my parents - money that I brought to the marriage, and which was never mingled with marital funds.

You don't need to give him a written rationale of jack.

Just have your lawyer document when you received the money, and let him/her deal with your asshat of a STBX. And in any case, the answer is easy. You received that money before you were married. He isn't entitled to any of it OR any interest off that money over the years even if the interest was accrued during the marriage.
But again, don't tell him that, tell your attorney.

Again, do NOT talk to him about anything. Thats what your lawyer if for.

ANY question your STBX has with regards to the divorce you DO NOT answer. ANYTHING you say could be used against you.

If he can't get his hands on it, he'll just use it to lower support for his kids


He is pissing in the wind. Your lawyer should NOT negotiate on this one bit. The states set a percentage of net income based on how many children. It does not matter. He owes what he owes and it has nothing to do with you keeping a pre-marital inheritance.

[This message edited by nofool4u at 12:10 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)]


Me - fBS

Posts: 210 | Registered: Feb 2013
Topic Posts: 28