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User Topic: I wish there was a manual on how to get it right...
Trying33
Member
Member # 38815
Default  Posted: 6:14 AM, April 27th (Saturday)

Recap: LDEA for 2.5 years. Ended 20.1.13. NC since then. I confessed to H who has refused to talk about it. Want's to "draw a line under it and move on". H doesn't know any details of EA or even who it was. Hasn't asked for them. Every time I attempt to bring it up, he asks if we can change the subject.

So, as you can see, no movement as regards to being open with my H and trying to build our M again. We are having good days and bad days. Moments of tenderness and moments of radio silence. I am temperamental and he is burying his head in work. Seem's to have moments when he "needs" me to moments of not wanting to be around me. This is all speculative of course, as he never SAYS anything to me.

I miss him and I love him. I'm trying to be more patient and understanding. Trying to say sorry through my actions and be a better wife but I'm angry with him. I'm really stuck as to what's going on in my head. In my head I know I have no right to be angry at HIM but in my heart I've identified the emotion of anger.

I'd like some advice on how to deal with my situation. I'd like nothing more than to discuss my EA with my H but I have to respect his wishes. There is so much volatile behaviour. Great physical intimacy and sarcasm and hurtful statements all within the same few hours. Is this normal? At moments of despair I've asked for a separation, but now it's almost seen as a joke as I've said it so many times and never followed through. He doesn't take anything I say seriously (or that's how it feels at least)

To add to all this, there are triggers of AP everywhere and I'm trying very hard to ignore them.

Yesterday, we went to an anniversary party. The couple were affectionate, loving and considerate towards eachother. Was beautiful to see. I remember having that kind of M too.

I know there's a lot of victim talk here in my post but I really need some constructive guidance as how to make things better.

Thank-you

ps. First time taking the stop sign off


Posts: 361 | Registered: Mar 2013
BaxtersBFF
Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 8:27 AM, April 27th (Saturday)

The volatile emotions are very normal. What's concerning is that he doesn't seem to be working on anything in a healthy way. Those volatile emotions are something that needs to be worked through, not gotten past.

The manual is right here on this site. Unfortunately, it reads different for everyone.

I'm curious if you can identify there being anger in your heart prior to your A. You said you used to have that loving M, and obviously it's gone now. What was your M really like before the A? I ask because my BW and I thought we had a pretty good M before my A, and so did everyone else, but when we really started looking at it, there were plenty of issues which neither of us knew how to deal with, so we put on a happy face and trudged forward.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6097 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
Trying33
Member
Member # 38815
Default  Posted: 1:50 AM, April 28th (Sunday)

Perfectly said! He's trying to shoo them away like they never happened. Almost like he doesn't want to believe I am capable of these things. I think his fear is if he accepts the fact that his wife is a "bitch cheater" then he might not be able to be/stay with me and he doesn't want to break up his family. So, he stays with me, tolerates me, and trudges along.

I wonder if he is relieved there was no sex involved?

As for anger in my heart prior to the A, there must have been supressed anger, that we didn't acknowledge. I know, at that point, on the surface everything was fine, but deep down I was desparately lonely and empty.

I can't MAKE him talk and work through things can I? What do I do? Be patient? Hope that he will want to work at it at some point?


Posts: 361 | Registered: Mar 2013
Darksideofme
New Member
Member # 38837
Default  Posted: 9:56 AM, April 29th (Monday)

Trying33,
Hi, Im feeling very similar this morning. I'm feeling angry and sad. Im angry because I want to get through all of my mess with my BS. Yet he wont talk cause "there is no time" or "because you cry every time". Im sad because i don't feel worthy or any efforts I've made have been acknowledged. I don't know what to do either. Thank you for posting. I hope to get some answers off your post too.


Mistakes are always forgivable, if one has the courage to admit them. - Bruce Lee

Posts: 27 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: North Dakota
Trying33
Member
Member # 38815
Default  Posted: 1:24 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

It becomes a vicious circle. I tried to explain it to my H today..

You tell me to "chill" and so I do, you tell me we'll talk, everytime I initiate, you always say "it's not a good time". I wait patiently, bursting to communicate. I try again to start some dialogue, you again dismiss me and no communication takes place. My resentment and anger builds up and I over-react at something so tiny. I beg you to listen and open up, you agree to "discuss and talk" and suggest we wait for a convenient time that suits us both. I wait patiently. Days pass, you continue like nothing has happened and the cycle starts again.

The above scenario has now been played out several times since d-day. I know he's afraid. I'm afraid too.

I forget to mention, that during these severe "meltdowns" and moments of despair I don't know what else to do than to tell him I want to separate from him for a while. We just seem to massively push eachothers buttons right now. Neither of us is happy.

Does the above cycle sound familiar to anyone?


Posts: 361 | Registered: Mar 2013
BostonGirl
Member
Member # 33930
Default  Posted: 10:53 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Yes, very familiar. Long story short, my H was dutiful in our marriage but became totally emotionally withdrawn as pressures of adulthood and family piled up. I tried for years to open things up and reconnect, brought home books, suggested counseling, but pretty much just got evasion and lip service in response. This devolved into exactly the kind of cycle you describe--the pressure building up in me, I would explode, he would withdraw further. I had an A because I needed affection and sex and my husband absolutely would not give either regardless of how I asked or how hurt I was by their absence. It sucked. We are still working on it. I have totally come clean and did most of the heavy lifting to make change in our marriage (see my history of posts in my profile for specifics, typing on my phone here.) He has come a long way but passive aggressiveness is incredibly hard to overcome and we are not out of the woods yet.

I just read this interview with Mira Kirschenbaum and it resonated a lot with me, maybe you will find the same. Her books are great and I recommend them. Compassionate about the challenges every person in the situation faces and also really level headed about what's needed to make a healthy relationship and the many ways this can fall apart.

http://www.chestnuthillinstitute.com/blog/598#more-598


It'll all be OK in the end. If it's not OK, it's not the end.

Posts: 133 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: Boston
Akire
Member
Member # 32101
Default  Posted: 7:06 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

I wait patiently, bursting to communicate.

Of everything you have written, this jumps out at me the most. So sad What a lonely place to be in. And that is no revelation to you of course, because as you've said:

deep down I was desparately lonely and empty

I think it is good to get clear that how you chose to attend to the lonely/empty was wrong. More than that, it had and has a devastating impact on people you clearly love. But in acknowledging that, in being willing to look at that in all its ugliness, please don't lose sight of the fact that the lonely/empty feelings still need attending to. They're not wrong. You are bringing that lonely/empty to your BH now, as you should.

I think when it comes to emotions, we can have a really good grip on the idea that people are entitled to them. Especially in a case of betrayal. What we can lose sight of is how these emotions show up. It would be nice if they would occur in a conversation that included "I'm really angry with you!!!!". But that's just words. Anger, like love, is a verb. If I try and put myself in your husband's space, I imagine for him it goes something like this "oh, so now you're done getting your thrills with OM, NOW you want something from me, do you? Well FUCK YOU very much. I will talk to you when I am good and ready, and don't you DARE expect anything more from me when you've fucked me over". (excuse the language - its for emphasis!). That's what anger looks like in practise. We might like it to be neat and tidy; it rarely is. So he is communicating with you, Silence is communication too. I think you're bang on picking up his fear (probably more like terror) - it is clear that there is a lot of that for both of you. I wonder if expressing his wants and needs has not been a good experience for him in the past - they may not have been attended to, or worse he was punished for them. With everything that's happened it might take a while for him to dare to express them to someone he feels so hurt by. As I said above, you're bringing yourself to him, I hope for you both in time he will bring himself to you too.

So in a nutshell, my hunch is: you aren't going nowhere, even though it feels like it. In fact you're doing great! It is a looooong journey {{Trying33}}


BS(me), FWH(gone), 2DS
M-16y, now S
A friend will calm you down when you're angry, but a best friend will skip beside you with a baseball bat singing: "Someone's gonna get it!"

Posts: 124 | Registered: May 2011 | From: Wisconsin
Trying33
Member
Member # 38815
Default  Posted: 3:54 AM, May 5th (Sunday)

Thanks for your responses.

I've just come across a thread about passive agrressive relationships.

The number of times I have been made to feel inadequate, stupid and insignificant. The years I have blamed myself for difficult situations, felt powerless, suffered from low self-esteem, had my opinions rubbished, my feelings invalidated and yet kept in the M because he told me he loved me and did just enough to make me feel it was worth it

The above resonates with me massively. It's as if I could've written them myself.

What's a good place to start researching if this is a kind of relationship I'm in?

My H agreed this weekend to do the book "His needs, Her needs". It took a bit of convincing but he's agreed. Is this a good book to start with?

I've often felt like it's me who has the issues. Like it's me who broke the marriage. Is it possible for a marriage to be messed up due to only one of the spouses? That is, is it possible that he's doing everything right and it really is ME who's dragging us down? I get told that constantly.


Posts: 361 | Registered: Mar 2013
KBeguile
Member
Member # 38348
Default  Posted: 9:14 AM, May 5th (Sunday)

My WS isn't very open with her emotions, either, and she's not trusting (which makes this doubly difficult).

However, allowing her to read (both with me and on her own) helped in the earliest stages. Also, I would recommend writing out a timeline if you haven't done so already. Perhaps he's the type who would rather read everything and have time to process what he's reading and absorbing, rather than talking about it and having to think about it in real-time?


Me: fWS 32
Her: BS 35 (HeartInADustpan)
DS: 4yo
M: 7 years
DDays: 2012/11/14, 2013/02/05, 2013/03/09
-
"Everything that happens now is happening 'now.'"
"What happened to 'then'?"
"We passed 'then.'"

Posts: 754 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: St. Louis
Finally10
Member
Member # 36900
Default  Posted: 4:34 PM, May 5th (Sunday)

Trying

When I first read your post, I began wondering what BS was doing posting in Wayward - I mean, really? Angry at your BS for not doing what YOU want? Any way, I read more and have the following thoughts.

Denial is very powerful. My mother died of denial. She denied she was diabetic until parts starting having to be surgically removed and she got a septic infection and died; just to present an example of extreme denial. You H may be in that state, or he may not recognize or even know what an EA really is. He may be of the belief that if it wasn’t physical, it wasn’t anything to worry about. You’re clearly upset about it and maybe he feels you are handling your problem sufficiently for both of you, I don’t know and am clearly guessing.

I know you know this (because you said it) but you have no right to be angry at how he handles your EA. His process is his process, as unhealthy as you might feel it is, until he feels it unhealthy it is what he is going to do. You clearly have a need to talk about this, but my suggestion is to confide in a close friend, find a counselor or pastor to discuss your feelings about what you did and get yourself healthy. Continuing to be angry at him for not providing validation of your reasons or excuses for engaging in an EA is going to backfire on you. It is just a further escalation of an already dysfunctional cycle you have identified. Further, I sense that you need to re-examine your why’s a little. You said that Pre your A, everything was fine on the surface, but that you were desperate and lonely and as a result you engaged in an LD-EA. You realize you had other options, right? You could have sought counseling, found other things to do to combat loneliness, or even left him if it were that un-resolvable. So, they question is why the EA – was it to hurt him for not fulfilling your needs? I get a lot of anger feelings when I read your posts, like you are entitled to his attention, that you deserve it, have earned it, or whatever and are resentful and angry that he is not giving you what you need and therefore it is his fault. If he is hearing this too, I’m not surprised he is avoiding the discussion.

Further, I wonder if you are dealing with a conflict avoidance situation – The cycle you describe is one of the classic “demon dialogues” described in the book “Hold me Tight”. Your H may be avoiding your self- described temperamental nature and conflict that he perceives will be cast as his fault. My suggestion is that you back off a bit, with the pressure on him – you are only 5 months out, and work on yourself and your communication skills. The demon dialogues can be deadly unless you learn how to break the cycle.

I’m sorry if this seems harsh, but you cannot force healing – your BS is in control and healing is on his timeline. So, take advantage of the lack of pressure from him on you and heal yourself. You may find that a healthier, changed you will be able to draw him out to talk more about emotional subjects once he feels they will not become "his fault" sessions. If you H does not handle emotional subjects well, then you have to handle them in a non confrontational way. From what I read here, I'm not sure you are ready for that yet.

[This message edited by Finally10 at 4:37 PM, May 5th (Sunday)]


Posts: 113 | Registered: Sep 2012
Trying33
Member
Member # 38815
Default  Posted: 2:50 AM, May 6th (Monday)

Finally10;

Your post strikes several chords, namely;

Continuing to be angry at him for not providing validation of your reasons or excuses for engaging in an EA is going to backfire on you

I don't understand why he doesn't want to know what the issues were in the marriage (from my pov). How can you resolve/fix problems if you don't know what they are? Maybe he thinks he knows and it's the same old crap on a different day. You're quite right. I am losing this battle. The more I try to engage in this type of discussion the more he shuts down. I have so much frustration and anger and I am convinced I am displacing the anger from AP onto my H. This is highly probable but I can't seem to help errupting.

So, they question is why the EA – was it to hurt him for not fulfilling your needs? I get a lot of anger feelings when I read your posts, like you are entitled to his attention, that you deserve it, have earned it, or whatever and are resentful and angry that he is not giving you what you need and therefore it is his fault. If he is hearing this too, I’m not surprised he is avoiding the discussion.

I do feel all the above. Rightly or wrongly, I feel exactly like this. This is also why I feel so hopeless. As if there's no hope for us. I just can't seem to get over my resentment towards him. Maybe we ARE doomed. I just don't know anymore. I'm carrying so much hurt and I don't know why.

Your H may be avoiding your self- described temperamental nature and conflict that he perceives will be cast as his fault. My suggestion is that you back off a bit, with the pressure on him – you are only 5 months out, and work on yourself and your communication skills. The demon dialogues can be deadly unless you learn how to break the cycle.

I do try but when I see none of my efforts are being ackowledged or mirrored it fuels my frustration. I'm inpatient and I don't even know how I'll know if he is making changes tbh (as they will be very subtle and slow).

I’m sorry if this seems harsh, but you cannot force healing – your BS is in control and healing is on his timeline. So, take advantage of the lack of pressure from him on you and heal yourself. You may find that a healthier, changed you will be able to draw him out to talk more about emotional subjects once he feels they will not become "his fault" sessions. If you H does not handle emotional subjects well, then you have to handle them in a non confrontational way. From what I read here, I'm not sure you are ready for that yet.

You don't sound harsh at all. Thank-you for sharing your thoughts. I am a believer in hearing it as it is which is why I am also brutally honest about what I'm thinking/feeling. I'm not afraid of backlash anymore like I was when I first started to post. I want to better myself for my M. I agree, I will probably be more attractive to him and he will want to open up to me once I stop being such a hot headed bitch but I'm not rewarded for any changes. I know this sounds childish but it's only human nature to want acknowledgment and reassurance that you're on the right track.

Perhaps he's doing this more non-verbally. I will watch out more for non-verbal cues. As I am so articulate with him and expressive with words I hope he will mirror me.

From what you've read, knowing his resistance to reading and "emotion-talk" what book would you recommend we start reading first? Anything too "heavy" and I fear he will be put off.



Posts: 361 | Registered: Mar 2013
Heavy Sigh
Member
Member # 34243
Default  Posted: 8:34 AM, May 6th (Monday)

I dislike asking this, but thought I'd throw it on the table:

It seems as if Trying's and Boston's spouses were distant before this, and in Boston's situation even disinterested in sex.

Are both of you certain that your BS'es are distant because of pain and denial - time for adjustment - and not because they've been in longterm affairs of some type, or just checked out emotionally for other reasons? I realize that on an affair site all marriage issues begin to look like affair behavior after a long while. I'm not suggesting confronting spouses or accusing, just thinking this through, maybe look at behavior in past to see if anything might fit with evidence rather than just fear and panic feelings at this point of even considering the possibility?


I mention this only from reading a couple of situations either here or advice columns where the BS learns of a spouse's affair and writes that he never admitted his own.

Also, there are "handbooks" that give advice to WS about dealing with a BS and reconciliation issues, although it's possible they don't offer as much advice to a WS dealing with a distant BS instead of a BS who is shifting between grief and anger.

Someone may have more advice on which books might address that issue of having an uncommunicative BS.

[This message edited by Heavy Sigh at 8:49 AM, May 6th (Monday)]


Posts: 1917 | Registered: Dec 2011
Finally10
Member
Member # 36900
Default  Posted: 10:09 AM, May 6th (Monday)

I agree, I will probably be more attractive to him and he will want to open up to me once I stop being such a hot headed bitch but I'm not rewarded for any changes. I know this sounds childish but it's only human nature to want acknowledgment and reassurance that you're on the right track.

OK, now look at that statement closely - Why isn't changing yourself for you enough? Why do you need his validation to be happy? Sure it's nice when our spouses say things like I know you are working hard, trying or whatever, but you really need to be dong this because YOU know you need to change your own outlook. You know the saying - "Doing the right thing is doing the right thing even if no one notices" or something to that effect.

As to a first book, I suggest the five love languages test first, and then the book if he is interested. For you, the McDonald book How to help your spouse heal from your affair - if you haven't read it.

One final thought--google Brene Brown and watch her video links - You will likely see that you H feels shame or that he is weak somehow because he couldn't keep you from straying - You will hear that most men have two modes of shame - pissed off or shut down. Sound familiar?

[This message edited by Finally10 at 10:11 AM, May 6th (Monday)]


Posts: 113 | Registered: Sep 2012
Finally10
Member
Member # 36900
Default  Posted: 10:21 AM, May 6th (Monday)

I don't understand why he doesn't want to know what the issues were in the marriage (from my pov). How can you resolve/fix problems if you don't know what they are? Maybe he thinks he knows and it's the same old crap on a different day. You're quite right. I am losing this battle. The more I try to engage in this type of discussion the more he shuts down. I have so much frustration and anger and I am convinced I am displacing the anger from AP onto my H. This is highly probable but I can't seem to help errupting.

Simply, and gently, because your decision to step out of the marriage for validation had nothing to do with his actions in the marriage. Sure, it may have made you vulnerable to outside attention, but you really have to split the issues up. You are in the "if he fixes what I see wrong, then everything will be OK" mode. Wrong. You really have to ignore what you see as wrong for now, suck it up and work on you, find your own personal WHY, and know that him not meeting your needs for attention or validation are NOT it. Once you get past this point and you are more healthy, MC would be a good start, a safe place where the MC can call you out when you go off track and start blaming him. I would suggest you start IC and work on this before he gets to the angry and pissed off stage. This will not be a pleasant dynamic given your self described nature unless you have some tools and have done some work on your end.


Posts: 113 | Registered: Sep 2012
Trying33
Member
Member # 38815
Default  Posted: 3:33 AM, May 7th (Tuesday)

HeavySigh,

The thought has crossed my mind many times but I really do think it's a personality trait of my H. If I really look back he's always been a bit emotionally distant, I've just never realised to what extent. He avoids conflict at all levels. Confrontation makes him feel uncomfortable. He deals with most events in his life internally. Doesn't tend to talk much.

Finally,

Again, thanks for your wise words and reading suggestions. I know I need to work on myself but it's massively infuriating that he does NO work on himself and when I encourage him to, his response is "I don't need to read, there's nothing wrong with me". I mean, what does one say to that? Do I give it a timeframe and be patient? Most of the time I feel hopeless at statements like this.

I will, for now, focus on myself. I recognise I'm inpatient. As a first instance, I need to work on that and accept this is not going to happen as quickly as I imagined it would.

The thing about him not wanting to talk to me because I get aggressive and defensive is 100% true and he confirmed this last night.

I need to expel some anger (which I think is left over from the A). I have booked some kickboxing lessons :)


Posts: 361 | Registered: Mar 2013
numb&dumb
Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 3:33 PM, May 7th (Tuesday)

massively infuriating that he does NO work on himself

Sometimes all a BS can do is stay and try to keep it together. It takes a whole lot of "work" just to keep it together after finding out. Staying may be all he can manage right now. The shame, loss of pride, loss of self and loss of what he thought he had are hard to adjust to. He also may still be stuck in denial.

His path to healing is his own. You can't make him heal or heal for him. You also can't force the M to be healed. Anything that was an issue before Dday has now been eclipsed by Dday. I remember I told my W early on when she asked about MC. "I need to be sure that there is a M I want to save first." It was hard for her to hear, but it was how I felt. I wasn't sure if I wanted my M or not. I expected as most BS do that we would get D. Anything else was new and unfamiliar. I longed for safe and familiar. I was lost, but didn't show it. I wasn't about to give my W the satisfaction of seeing my emotions.

You can only control yourself. At this stage, the best thing you can do for the both of you, is work on doing things yourself. Work through that anger in IC. Not a single part of your anger is going to help you through this process. Anger covers up a deeper emotion and rarely exists in a vacuum.

Go easy on him, he may not show it, but I guarantee you he is in his own private hell. He just can't show you in a way you can see yet. Maybe it is the trust factor, maybe he doesn't want to act vulnerable in front of you. I don't know for sure. I do know that if you keep pushing before he feels comfortable or ready it isn't going to end well.

Begin work on yourself and listen to him when he speaks. Slowly show him you are changing the hot headed whatever you said earlier into someone who is safe to talk to. Until then he probably is going to continue on his current path or become ever more distant.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2554 | Registered: May 2010
MissesJai
Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 3:46 PM, May 7th (Tuesday)

his response is "I don't need to read, there's nothing wrong with me". I mean, what does one say to that?
What do you say to that? "Ok" - then shift your focus on to YOU because hon, that's where all your focus needs to be. He's either gonna get right or get left behind. Period. I went through the same exact struggle with my BH. Eventually, with MUCH help from my IC, I let it go. His healing is HIS and whatever he chooses is on him. I don't take it on. I refuse. I got my own shit to to deal with.

ETA: I don't mean to sound flippant, I just know what worked for me.

[This message edited by MissesJai at 3:53 PM, May 7th (Tuesday)]


FWW - 41
I'm big on personal responsibility. Own your shit. ALL OF IT.

Posts: 5833 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
Trying33
Member
Member # 38815
Default  Posted: 2:54 AM, May 8th (Wednesday)

I'm starting to identify the anger. Thought I was done with withdrawing. It would appear not. Went through a great few months. This week it's felt as raw as soon after D-day. I know what the trigger is, I'm trying to distract myself and avoid it.

All your guy's advice about working on myself right now is spot on. I'm still hurting from the end of the A. didn't want to admit it, but I am. No wonder I'm transfering all this anger onto my H. I need to separate the issues like someone said.

For now, the plan is to keep posting, reading, refelcting digging, questioning, listening. I'm going to back off big time from my h and I mean this in a positive way.

Go easy on him, he may not show it, but I guarantee you he is in his own private hell. He just can't show you in a way you can see yet. Maybe it is the trust factor, maybe he doesn't want to act vulnerable in front of you. I don't know for sure. I do know that if you keep pushing before he feels comfortable or ready it isn't going to end well.

I agree. He and I just need to "be" for a little while. I'm sure he'll appreciate some light conversation and a reduction in the "heaviness". It's almost like we're getting to know eachother again.


Posts: 361 | Registered: Mar 2013
Finally10
Member
Member # 36900
Default  Posted: 10:10 AM, May 8th (Wednesday)


For now, the plan is to keep posting, reading, reflecting digging, questioning, listening. I'm going to back off big time from my h and I mean this in a positive way.

Good steps.... I would keep the questioning part for now to questioning yourself as in part of the self reflection process and I would add that a very good thing to do now would be to tell your BH what you are doing, lest he feel you are simply giving up on the M, re-engaging with OM, or looking for another. Make sure your are clear that you are not disengaging from him or the M and that you have realized that a lot of what you are feeling is self inflicted and you need to deal with that on your own. Be happy if he just says "OK", and ecstatic if he says "what do you mean?" Keep the conversation low key, non confrontational, non blaming and all about what YOU are thinking and planning to do. If the conversation goes south, avoid the angry response and keep it to "I love you and want to heal our M and just wanted you to know what is going on with me, you don't need to do anything right now. Above all, stay calm.

[This message edited by Finally10 at 10:15 AM, May 8th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 113 | Registered: Sep 2012
Trying33
Member
Member # 38815
Default  Posted: 12:40 AM, May 9th (Thursday)

Thanks for the advice. I've absorbed it. It's the kind of nurturing advice my mother would give. She often say's I'm too harsh with my H. He just infuriates me sometimes but I think most spouses piss off their spouses.

Anyway, I just sent him a text and he replied "oh wow, why the sudden niceness". Made me think how awful I must've been lately as it wasn't even that nice. Actually, it's the kind of thing that I'd normally say.

He fell in love with a sweet, kind and caring young woman. That woman took that away from him as she felt lost, empty and resentful and gave it to another man, who later threw it back in her face. This woman needs to figure this shit out in her head and what she exactly wants as right now she doesn't know. She needs time and an ability to let go of negative thoughts.

Thanks again.


Posts: 361 | Registered: Mar 2013
Finally10
Member
Member # 36900
Default  Posted: 12:07 PM, May 9th (Thursday)

Anyway, I just sent him a text and he replied "oh wow, why the sudden niceness".

There's your opening - go for it and keep in mind all the advice you have received here.


Posts: 113 | Registered: Sep 2012
BostonGirl
Member
Member # 33930
Default  Posted: 11:20 PM, May 9th (Thursday)

Heavy Sigh said,

I dislike asking this, but thought I'd throw it on the table:
It seems as if Trying's and Boston's spouses were distant before this, and in Boston's situation even disinterested in sex.

Are both of you certain that your BS'es are distant because of pain and denial - time for adjustment - and not because they've been in longterm affairs of some type, or just checked out emotionally for other reasons? I realize that on an affair site all marriage issues begin to look like affair behavior after a long while. I'm not suggesting confronting spouses or accusing, just thinking this through, maybe look at behavior in past to see if anything might fit with evidence rather than just fear and panic feelings at this point of even considering the possibility?

I am totally and completely sure that my husband wasn't having an affair.

A few long years into really dealing with our marriage issues, and my husband is finally starting to really GET that his FOO was profoundly fucked up, and that he has some serious dysfunction to get past. He was conflict averse in the extreme (and still struggles with it). ANYTHING that made him uncomfortable made him withdraw--and that included both praise/loving gestures/expressed desire to get closer or have more sex, as well as anything that could even be remotely construed as critical. He remained in the marriage because, as I say, he was/is dutiful, but he was totally checked out otherwise...and of course completely unwilling to recognize/admit/engage about it, because that would mean conflict.

Passive aggressive behavior is crazymaking. I totally get the advice that another contributor is making, that the OP does need to focus on herself rather than getting her husband to change. But if further investigation about passive-aggressiveness really rings true, well, that is a really freaking hard row to hoe. Things have changed much for the better but we are not out of the woods yet, and if I had to go back and fight this fight all over again I am not sure I would.

What's done is done and you did get emotionally entangled with someone else. In the process you learned that things need to change in your marriage. It is important to own your stuff and important to be caring about your spouse and his response/healing. But in a healthy marriage that's supposed to go both ways, and if it really honest-to-god was not and is not, well, it is totally within bounds for even a WS to demand communication and mutual problem-solving. Just because you're human and make a mistake doesn't mean that you abdicate the ability to have wants, needs, desires ever again.


It'll all be OK in the end. If it's not OK, it's not the end.

Posts: 133 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: Boston
Trying33
Member
Member # 38815
Default  Posted: 4:21 AM, May 10th (Friday)

There's your opening - go for it and keep in mind all the advice you have received here.

Your words have stayed with me. I made some noticable and consious changes in my behaviour with him yesterday. Made a real difference to his demeanour.

I'm making and effort and so is he...


Posts: 361 | Registered: Mar 2013
Trying33
Member
Member # 38815
Default  Posted: 3:15 AM, May 22nd (Wednesday)

Well this lasted a whole of 12 days before I exploded again last night. I've tried and have been successful in holding it together and not getting defensive or initiating any negative discussion etc.

During the last 12 days we've not discussed our M once. It's been very practical and functional. Every day I feel like I'm living with a stranger and have felt lonlier than ever.

I brought up the affair again in an argument. Asked him how come he doesn't hate me. Why he can't face his problems etc. Why he avoids any type of stress etc. Is there anything he believes in. I just let it all out.

Again, I was stone-walled and dismissed.

This morning I got this:

"I am humbly requesting that you never bring up that issue again. I never want to talk about it and am dealing with it in my own way. I am ensuring you this is the best way for our marriage otherwise there may not be one. If you choose to pursue this topic with me (my EA) then I can promise you it will end badly for everyone involved so, for this reason, please don't discuss this with me again"

I just don't know what to do anymore. We're meeting tonight to discuss our marriage and our concerns. Not sure how it will all go.

Any advice really appreciated.


Posts: 361 | Registered: Mar 2013
20WrongsVs1
Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 7:47 AM, May 22nd (Wednesday)

He has to deal with it in his own way. That may be all he has left. My experience is not similar to yours, but BH and I are knee-deep in figuring out how to deal with this, and stumbling constantly.

Will he talk about your marriage and relationship, if you promise not to bring up the A?

Why he can't face his problems etc. Why he avoids any type of stress etc.

My one piece of advice: Speak for yourself, not him.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1093 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
mike7
Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 7:00 PM, May 22nd (Wednesday)

"I am humbly requesting that you never bring up that issue again. I never want to talk about it and am dealing with it in my own way. I am ensuring you this is the best way for our marriage otherwise there may not be one. If you choose to pursue this topic with me (my EA) then I can promise you it will end badly for everyone involved so, for this reason, please don't discuss this with me again"

This seems pretty clear to me, and humble.

why are you pushing? Are you saying that if he doesn't do things the way you want him to he is wrong? Are you telling him how to act?

Has he changed? Or did you? You had the affair. did that change him?

Maybe you are through with him.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 539 | Registered: Mar 2013
Trying33
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Default  Posted: 12:45 AM, May 23rd (Thursday)

Will he talk about your marriage and relationship, if you promise not to bring up the A?

That's what we did last night. It seemed to help. We both came with a list of issues and needs we'd like addressed. His list was predominantly concerns related to my personality (inpatience, need for instant gratification, inability to tolerate difficult situations). Mine was all about not feeling like a team, never feeling like we're on the same side, always me vs him and obviously the lack of connection and emotional intamacy.


why are you pushing? Are you saying that if he doesn't do things the way you want him to he is wrong? Are you telling him how to act?

The A didn't come up and didn't need to I guess. I'm pushing because I guess I'm trying to follow a formula that is suggested here. I guess my thinking has been that if it's not all out in the open then true healing cannot take place. I just read the thread about taking a break from SI. I do feel SI influences me quite alot. I like coming here because it provides me with alot of support and I get to vent and seek advice. I don't have this in real life. Maybe I need to realise there are many ways to heal a M and this depends on the people IN the M.

I read so many stories of how BS's act. They are very similar. So when my BH doesn't fit that "mould" I automatically try to make him. Why isn't he angry and lashing out? Why isn't he asking me questions and details? How come he hasn't asked me for my passwords? Is this fake R? Is he making me think we're all good then at some point in the future he'll trigger and then all this will come out? Isn't it "normal" for a BS to be seething?

A friend on SI pointed out that maybe I want all these reactions in order to prove that he loves me. That somehow the lack of reaction demonstrates to me that he doesn't care which has always been one of my insecurities.

Well I guess he is angry but in a different way to what I see on SI. He is disconnected and withdrawn. Going through the motions of life and dealing with it in his own way. Shutting me out and not letting me in. That's anger in itself.

Has he changed? Or did you? You had the affair. did that change him?

I don't think either of us has changed and that's the point. We need to change/adapt in order to fulfill the other's needs. I don't think the A has changed him. He seems exactly the same. We are where we were post A. The A was a convenient distraction to not deal with our issues. Now we must.

Maybe you are through with him.

I often think that but again, I know, that's a copout and an escape, just like the A was. Seem's to be how I handle conflict in my life, escape it.


Posts: 361 | Registered: Mar 2013
Trying33
Member
Member # 38815
Default  Posted: 12:49 AM, May 23rd (Thursday)

If anyone know's of any threads where BS's have reacted in similar ways to my BH please post them for me. Thank-you.

Have you come across any BH's who have chosen NOT to follow the conventional healing/R route and have managed to successfully R? Normally this is refered to as rugsweeping and from what I read the WS usually end ups having another A or the BS never truly heals and it always impacts the M.


Posts: 361 | Registered: Mar 2013
20WrongsVs1
Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 6:55 AM, May 23rd (Thursday)

Sweetie, I'm a rookie at this too, but I worry that your last post indicates you want to prove to yourself--with evidence--that your way is the right way.

The A didn't come up and didn't need to I guess. I'm pushing because I guess I'm trying to follow a formula that is suggested here. I guess my thinking has been that if it's not all out in the open then true healing cannot take place.

Consider putting a complete stop to the pushing, and accepting your H's way of dealing with this. Eventually he may feel ready to look under the rug.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1093 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
noescape
Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 7:17 AM, May 23rd (Thursday)

What Finally10 ^^^^ said.Also, I'd suggest you head to ICR and look for the BM thread, read a few of WALs posts and try steering your H there. You wont like it, its not pretty, but it gives a roadmap for the BH to move to a stable place of healing (if thats what you want for him).


I don't understand why he doesn't want to know what the issues were in the marriage (from my pov).

Think you have it wrong there, maybe you want to first go into the reasons/issues with yourself and why an A was 'the solution'.

Big red flag, M issues dont have any airtime,and harping on about them is classic blameshift (of the A on the BSs shoulders). Not to say there arent M issues and they dont need to be worked on, but whats important is working on YOUR why's of coping with them led to killing your M.

About HNHN, I'd say its generally a good book but the wrong foot to start off on. It seems too "blame shifty" on to the BS for what is essentially the brokenness of the WS. Accountability and remorse should be your mantra right now.

I had an A because I needed affection and sex and my husband absolutely would not give either regardless of how I asked or how hurt I was by their absence.

Would such a choice make it ok for your H to respond in a similar manner to things he percieves to be missing in his M? I dont think you have the 'because' worked out yet. It is rarely an issue in the M and has more to do with holes in the WS/unhealthy coping skills. I am surprised that none of the vets have chimed in yet. Sorry, but just giving some honest advise here. And I wish people here would stop demonising/laying so much blame on the BH/BS.


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
Finally10
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Default  Posted: 10:44 AM, May 23rd (Thursday)

Well I guess he is angry but in a different way to what I see on SI. He is disconnected and withdrawn. Going through the motions of life and dealing with it in his own way. Shutting me out and not letting me in. That's anger in itself.

Reverting a little to my earlier post about shame,("Thoughts on Shame") I suggest you review Dr. Browns videos and look through her book some. Men feel shame intensely and according to Dr brown process it in two primary responses - Pissed off or Shut down(withdraw) - your BH sounds very much like the later. Have you considered that your BH is feeling shame? Shame that he wasn't enough, not good enough, not "man" enough, not anything enough to keep you from looking elsewhere? Have you considered that he may fear showing emotional vulnerability and perhaps consider it a sign of weakness if he allows himself to react in front of you?

To reiterate something i said in a previous post, I suggest you respect his request and let him work through it in his own way, while you work through your own issues. I strongly encourage IC for yourself regardless of what he is or may do in the future.

He has given you a list of things he is concerned about - work on them. As far as the other formulaic approaches like transparency, passwords, details... if you feel the need, write it all down and seal it in an envelope, put passwords and stuff in a folder he can find if he wants them, and just be transparent. Don't look for validation from him on these things, just do them because they are the right thing to do.


Posts: 113 | Registered: Sep 2012
heartbroken0903
Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 9:21 AM, May 24th (Friday)

I read so many stories of how BS's act. They are very similar. So when my BH doesn't fit that "mould" I automatically try to make him. Why isn't he angry and lashing out? Why isn't he asking me questions and details? How come he hasn't asked me for my passwords?

My situation is a little different than yours as XH and I were divorced for 2 years before we started reconciling (and in fact we are still divorced), but he sounds extremely similar to your BH.

Mine never really wanted to discuss it, even at the beginning of R, and doesn't want to discuss it anymore at this point...like, ever again. He used to get mad and/or shut down when I'd bring it up, so I just don't anymore. My passwords are available out of courtesy, but he has never asked for them, and AFAIK has never used them.

Have you come across any BH's who have chosen NOT to follow the conventional healing/R route and have managed to successfully R?

I would say our R is going well. I hope XH would say the same. Otherwise, really, what's the point? We're D. We don't live together (although he spends most of his time here). No kids. I can financially take care of myself. What other reason, then, besides wanting to be together and the R going well? Even despite his unconventional path as a (f)BH.

[This message edited by heartbroken0903 at 9:21 AM, May 24th (Friday)]


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciled after divorce

"Someday you'll look back on all these days
And all this pain is gonna be invisible." - Hunter Hayes, "Invisible"


Posts: 2090 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
Trying33
Member
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Default  Posted: 2:06 AM, May 25th (Saturday)

Shame that he wasn't enough, not good enough, not "man" enough, not anything enough to keep you from looking elsewhere? Have you considered that he may fear showing emotional vulnerability and perhaps consider it a sign of weakness if he allows himself to react in front of you?

Definately all of this.

I think he also feels hopeless that despite everyting he does for me and everything we have going for us, it's STILL not good enough for me. So he often feels like "what's the point". I have gently reassured him that I appreciate everything he does etc.

This is such a rollercoaster.

Finally, does my BH resonate with you and your personality?


Posts: 361 | Registered: Mar 2013
I think I can
Member
Member # 17756
Default  Posted: 7:34 AM, May 25th (Saturday)

about not feeling like a team, never feeling like we're on the same side, always me vs him

This struck me---the "always" "never" construction. Can you try to focus on what the problem is RIGHT THEN? Discuss what just happened, what just went wrong? Categorizing things as always/never is extremely self-defeating.


I'm not the winner, I'm the prize.

Posts: 8805 | Registered: Jan 2008
Finally10
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Default  Posted: 9:46 AM, May 25th (Saturday)

Finally, does my BH resonate with you and your personality?

I'm not sure I would be able to handle my W betraying me in the way your husband is. If history is an example, one of my HS GF's went on a college trip and the rumors of her behavior sent me into a memorable screaming match that is remembered to this day.

You seem to be looking for your H to prove his love for you by acting a certain way in response to your wayward behavior. A better question is "What are you doing to prove your love to him?" You do this by changing your behavior, you learn how to manage your anger, learn his love language and learn to speak it among many other ways.

You dug a giant hole with your behavior and you have to help him out of it. You may have to carry him out until he feels ready to start climbing out himself.

Remember - Pissed off or Shut down - He will get to Pissed Off one day and you need to be ready for it and able to respond in ways that exclude defensiveness, anger and blame shifting. Educate yourself and prepare.

[This message edited by Finally10 at 9:47 AM, May 25th (Saturday)]


Posts: 113 | Registered: Sep 2012
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 10:22 AM, May 25th (Saturday)

Hlessons acted a lot like your H after his Dday. Didn't want to talk about it and didn't want details. I tried over and over again in MC to get us to that point just to be told to leave it alone. For me to work on myself. I came here and read the Betrayed Men's thread so I could get an idea of what my H was going through, I posted threads asking what I should do for him.

In the end, it was his healing to take care of, and I needed to let go of. I spent a lot of time trying to direct his healing and that was time I should have been fixing me.

Get busy working on you. That is the best thing you can give him and your M.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4712 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
mike7
Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 11:26 AM, May 25th (Saturday)

what Tiredgirl said

you need to fix yourself first.

then worry about the marriage.

my question "has he changed?" has to do with why you married him. if you married him, why did you? if he hasn't changed, why do you want him to? think of the good things about him that caused you to marry him, not the bad things that somehow fail to meet your current needs.

finally, this site is a good site, but that's it. there is a way of dealing with things here that is good. but that doesn't mean it fits everyone. if he doesn't fit the "typical" BH, too bad. TiredGirl's BH didn't either. Everybody is different. Don't force a rectangle into a square.

If you get the chance, read Wincing's Sparkle's thread about the lifeboat. Your BH is still in the lifeboat with you. He's in pain, but he's still there. Don't force him out because you think you know what's best for him.

[This message edited by mike7 at 3:42 PM, May 25th (Saturday)]


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 539 | Registered: Mar 2013
Trying33
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Default  Posted: 11:02 AM, May 26th (Sunday)

You seem to be looking for your H to prove his love for you by acting a certain way in response to your wayward behavior

I would tend to agree with you here but need to do the why's behind this.

Didn't want to talk about it and didn't want details. I tried over and over again in MC to get us to that point just to be told to leave it alone.

This is what I'm resoundingly hearing too. I've resolved to do this and manage for a fair time, then something happens to make me bring it up again. This is where I now need to assert some self-control and read up on anger management techniques.

my question "has he changed?" has to do with why you married him. if you married him, why did you? if he hasn't changed, why do you want him to?

Essentially he hasn't changed. I think I have. What I used to tolerate earlier in my marriage I no longer can. There were many traits of his that I struggled with when we decided to marry. I overlooked them as there were many other attractive traits and I loved him. The traits I overlooked or tried to ignore are now a problem for me and impact on our marriage when in the past I've always dealt with them. He is who he is and I can't change him. I'm sure there are many things about me he'd like to change but he accepts me for who I am.

I believe I now need to reconcile with some of his mentality towards how we live our life OR not. It's coming down to personal value systems. I hope in time this is something we can discuss in MC, but for now, I'm still working on my own personal why's.


Posts: 361 | Registered: Mar 2013
tired girl
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Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 11:20 AM, May 26th (Sunday)

The problem here is that you are still focusing on the M and him. The focus should be on you. You are the issue here. It took me nearly a year to get to that point. And then the light bulb went on. I had the problem, not my M not my H.

Were there huge issues in my M? Yep. Is that what caused me to fuck up? Nope. Quit looking everywhere else. Look in the mirror.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4712 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
Heavy Sigh
Member
Member # 34243
Default  Posted: 11:52 AM, May 26th (Sunday)

Silence is how some people handle trauma, large (war) or other traumas (seeing grandpa struggle for breath and dying from lung cancer).

They know there is nothing that can be done or said to change things, or to make them feel better about it and will only implant the event more deeply into trauma, and so talking about the experience makes them re-experience it.

I've known some Vietnam veterans who will say they do not wish to discuss their service, and heroes with medals who wince when asked to tell even their grandchildren about wartime.

Most BS'es who wish to talk about affairs are seeking reassurance it won't happen again and that the WS'es will never do it again.

Your WS may be confident you will never do it again, but you mentioning it time and again makes him question why he didn't leave the first time, and makes him think that YOU believe he was a wuss for not leaving and don't respect him. That he is a compartmentalizer who prefers to go all-amnesia on the affair to where doubts and pain don't intrude upon his life and work, and you bringing it up won't allow him to do that.

That's my only guess as to the whys of his behavior.

[This message edited by Heavy Sigh at 11:53 AM, May 26th (Sunday)]


Posts: 1917 | Registered: Dec 2011
mike7
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Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 7:38 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

i love what you just said Tiredgirl. i hope it helps Trying, but it helps me as well.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 539 | Registered: Mar 2013
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 8:19 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

Thank you mike7, I think this is a very fundamental thing that waywards need to understand before any progress will ever be made.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4712 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
Trying33
Member
Member # 38815
Default  Posted: 1:02 AM, May 27th (Monday)

The problem here is that you are still focusing on the M and him. The focus should be on you. You are the issue here. It took me nearly a year to get to that point. And then the light bulb went on. I had the problem, not my M not my H.
Were there huge issues in my M? Yep. Is that what caused me to fuck up? Nope. Quit looking everywhere else. Look in the mirror.

I hear you tired, I really do and I understand this intellectually. I know I have issues and insecurities that need deeper working on, but without sounding defensive so does he.

What I keep hearing is I can't make him want to develop, he has to want to do this himself, which I agree with. I can only work on myself. I know this. Alot of the problems in the M lies with me. I accept this. The EA was me. All me. I did it. I chose to allow it to continue. I decided it was ok to tell another man I loved him. There are some serious malfunctions in my brain that allowed me to justify this behaviour. Cake-eater come to mind. Selfish and Entitled are the two most words that resonate with me.

I am focussing on myself as I need to be strong and deal with my wayward tendencies before I can do anything else.

It's a process and by what I can tell, it's going to be a long one...


Posts: 361 | Registered: Mar 2013
Trying33
Member
Member # 38815
Default  Posted: 1:09 AM, May 27th (Monday)

Your WS may be confident you will never do it again, but you mentioning it time and again makes him question why he didn't leave the first time, and makes him think that YOU believe he was a wuss for not leaving and don't respect him. That he is a compartmentalizer who prefers to go all-amnesia on the affair to where doubts and pain don't intrude upon his life and work, and you bringing it up won't allow him to do that.

As frustrating as this is, I must respect the way he is choosing to deal with this. Thanks for the input.


Posts: 361 | Registered: Mar 2013
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 9:19 AM, May 27th (Monday)

but without sounding defensive so does he.


Why are you even still looking at him? He is not the reason that you gave yourself permission to do this? What was it inside of you that said it was ok to betray yourself and your M and him like this? He didn't make you do this, it was all you. And until you come to that conclusion and get your eyes off of him and your M, you will just be making excuses.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4712 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
lostandconfused4
New Member
Member # 39315
Default  Posted: 2:32 PM, May 27th (Monday)

For me there were a lot of questions that I didn't ask until about a month out. I am a fairly inquisitive person so I wanted information but I didn't want to work on my marriage until I figured out who I was married to. Quite frankly I was open to staying married but I could not invest myself until I felt confident that the man I was looking at was worth being married to. D day was terrible because I was looking at this person that I had married and I felt that I didn't know him at all. Once I got to know him again and accepted all of him then I was ready for everything and able to actually start moving forward. Maybe you can try just stepping back to get to know each other again and if you both like what you see then maybe you can work things out. He gets to decide how much he can take, you get to decide if you can live with that. If you can't live with that I guess you have your answer...


me: 26 BW
him: 28 WH (patientarcher)
2 beautiful girls
D Day April 26th, 2013
In marriage, secrets are as dangerous as lies. Build your marriage on complete trust, honesty and communication

Posts: 16 | Registered: May 2013
BostonGirl
Member
Member # 33930
Default  Posted: 9:26 PM, May 27th (Monday)

Noescape wrote in response to my post:

I had an A because I needed affection and sex and my husband absolutely would not give either regardless of how I asked or how hurt I was by their absence.

Would such a choice make it ok for your H to respond in a similar manner to things he percieves to be missing in his M? I dont think you have the 'because' worked out yet. It is rarely an issue in the M and has more to do with holes in the WS/unhealthy coping skills. I am surprised that none of the vets have chimed in yet. Sorry, but just giving some honest advise here. And I wish people here would stop demonising/laying so much blame on the BH/BS.

Well, in my case, I will certainly admit that my A happened when the rest of my coping skills had been exhausted. I will also say that my coping skills were many and quite well-developed and they got me absolutely freaking nowhere. I respectfully and lovingly pointed out my concerns, problems, desires; I asked for what I wanted; I tried to find out what was going on with him, why he was withdrawn and checked out, what he wanted, what I might do differently. No dice, no interaction. I practiced my gratitude, I focused on the good. I read books on how to build a better marriage and asked my husband to read them. I thought about my marriage and put the experts' recommendations into practice. My husband didn't. I suggested we go into counseling, but my husband refused. All the while we grew more and more distant, I grew more and more lonely, I saw more and more clearly that my husband regarded me and my thoughts/concerns/loneliness/ppain as completely unimportant. I would have divorced but I was not able to support my kids on my own when they were little. After literally years with no warmth or connection, with no apparent prospect for making positive change in that direction after repeatedly, respectfully trying to do so, yes I did get relief by looking for sex and affection elsewhere.

I knew it was a huge indicator that my marriage was in deep shit. But it was *also* a way to confirm that yes, in fact, connection and affirmation and affection and sex and compliments and warmth and closeness really, really matter to me, and I absolutely could not stay in a marriage where that was absent.

In fact I came totally clean about my A, and demanded that my husband either engage with me in this marriage or get the hell out. Thus ensued a hellish year, followed by a year of separation, and a rocky year of reconciliation since then. We still struggle. But I am not sorry to have "gone nuclear" and I absolutely credit my affair for waking me up that we--HE-- needed to FIX IT or END IT.

I am in no way a perfect person, and I accept that I am human. I suppose it's possible to have had the patience of a saint and continued on satisfied in emotional isolation forever because that's the only state my husband would allow. But I don't think it would have served *anyone* to have put up with it, including him.

The nuclear meltdown was absolutely awful for everyone, but in hindsight, it really did serve to awaken him to some really damaging FOO issues he had never ever ever considered before, and also to the extent that he was damaging *himself* by being so isolated and checked out in all parts of his life, not just his marriage (including parenting and career also.) Disengagement and denial were at the core of what he was living and in fact all the normal, rational, healthy modes of trying to resolve conflict that I tried, repeatedly for years, absolutely DID NOT WORK.

I write all this not to offer an apologia for myself--I am totally at peace about what I did, and why, and the outcome. But I offer this to the OP who, it sounds, has been lost in loneliness for a really long time and the situation now is still distant and lonely. Look, you are be human and you may have done something imperfect. By all means, focus on yourself, learn about yourself, think about what you did and why. But an EA is not the end of the world, and if your marriage was really that empty, I think it's really worth considering that it may be a wakeup call that things really do need to change in your marriage--for both you and your husband. Being human and imperfect does not mean that you don't ever get a voice from now on. The marriage you are in needs to work FOR BOTH OF YOU if it's going to be healthy, and it sounds like it is still NOT working for you.

"Never speak of it again" isn't going to work for you and is NOT healthy for any marriage. John Gottman calls that stonewalling and it's one of the signs of a marriage's collapse. Look up "Gottman's Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse" for more on that.

This post is way too long. Suffice to say that 100% of the A is on the WS, but sometimes way more than 50% of the marriage problems preceding are on the BS's side of the scale. Really.

[This message edited by BostonGirl at 9:35 PM, May 27th (Monday)]


It'll all be OK in the end. If it's not OK, it's not the end.

Posts: 133 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: Boston
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Default  Posted: 9:26 PM, May 27th (Monday)

Double post, sorry.

[This message edited by BostonGirl at 9:36 PM, May 27th (Monday)]


It'll all be OK in the end. If it's not OK, it's not the end.

Posts: 133 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: Boston
tired girl
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Default  Posted: 11:02 PM, May 27th (Monday)

But I am not sorry to have "gone nuclear" and I absolutely credit my affair for waking me up that we--HE-- needed to FIX IT or END IT.

I am in no way a perfect person, and I accept that I am human. I suppose it's possible to have had the patience of a saint and continued on satisfied in emotional isolation forever because that's the only state my husband would allow. But I don't think it would have served *anyone* to have put up with it, including him.

The nuclear meltdown was absolutely awful for everyone, but in hindsight, it really did serve to awaken him to some really damaging FOO issues he had never ever ever considered before, and also to the extent that he was damaging *himself* by being so isolated and checked out in all parts of his life, not just his marriage (including parenting and career also.) Disengagement and denial were at the core of what he was living and in fact all the normal, rational, healthy modes of trying to resolve conflict that I tried, repeatedly for years, absolutely DID NOT WORK.

It never ceases to amaze me the bill of goods that waywards will sell themselves to keep the justifications going as to why it was ok to do what they did.

Boston girl you had options, other than betraying yourself and your H and your M. If your H has bought into the fact that it was his fault then I feel bad for HIM.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4712 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
BostonGirl
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Default  Posted: 5:02 AM, May 28th (Tuesday)

Well then, my all knowing friend, please enlighten me about what I should have done differently of better!

If the answer is, "you should have divorced him first if you were so unhappy", that definitely got put on the table. But then other stuff happened that got in the way (like, oh, having to make major life decisions for the family as the breadwinner, since my also husband couldn't and wouldn't deal with the fact that he was being massively exploited at work and his paycheck wouldn't keep us afloat... I'm talking he had a PhD and ten years of work experience in the field and was paid so little we would have qualified for food stamps if I lost my job... This with two kids to support...)

There are many, many ways to betray a spouse other than by getting involved with someone else. My husband had broken every single one of our wedding vows, for years, while I had taken them to heart and made concerted effort to live them (had them on the wall next to my bed every day.) Please do enlighten me as to what a person should do when greeted with indifference upon even invoking one's wedding vows.


It'll all be OK in the end. If it's not OK, it's not the end.

Posts: 133 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: Boston
BostonGirl
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Default  Posted: 5:53 AM, May 28th (Tuesday)

And--getting back to the OPs situation--if you are dying in your marriage due to your husband's indifference, and his response is yet further indifference ("Don't speak of this again or bad things will happen") then yes, I think your H has tossed you out of the frying pan into the fire.

What he wrote is classic conflict avoidance, classic passive aggressive. What "bad"is going to happen? He's going to reveal his anger? So what? is he "too nice of a guy" to let that happen (Which of course means his dissatisfactions ooze out in other ways, which he also denies?) or maybe: He's going to slip up and accidentally reveal to his wife that she matters to him? Of course that won't do!

Unless he is in fact a combat veteran, the comparison to WW2 vets is far overblown. If your husband can't deal with anger or conflict, that is HIS weakness, and he inflicting pain on YOU because he is unwilling to deal with painful issues himself.

Please check out Patti Henry's The Emotionally Unavailable Man, or Terry Real's How Can I Get Through To You for more on how to cope.

FWIW, in hindsight, my husband is now absolutely mortified to realize how he had treated me. He was brought up in an incredibly emotionally neglectful environment and thought that was what love was. He now realizes that what he thought was kindly "giving space" was actually abandonment of care, concern, responsibility to the people (me and kids) he purported to love.


It'll all be OK in the end. If it's not OK, it's not the end.

Posts: 133 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: Boston
tired girl
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Default  Posted: 9:12 AM, May 28th (Tuesday)

The fact that you are on a surviving infidelity website and defending your decision to cheat on your H because you felt that he didn't treat you right blows my mind. Especially since you are here in wayward doing it.

My H blew through boundaries with other women for 18 years in our M prior to me doing what I did. I even told him what I was going to do before I did it. I am still not going to sit here in wayward defending my decision to do what I did because I betrayed myself, I betrayed everything I ever believed in about me and about what I wanted for us. If you haven't realized that yet for yourself then you have a long way to go.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4712 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
Aubrie
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Default  Posted: 10:21 AM, May 28th (Tuesday)

BG, are you serious right now? The A was a savior? A shining beacon in the blackness of your marriage?

If your husband has broken every single marital vow, then why in Grimm's name would you R with him? If he's such a burden, not much of a man, and such a jack-off, why stay? Surely your AP was all that and a bag of chips? Your AP was the one that showed you "intimacy" and what a "real" relationship is like right? Or at least, that's what you're saying. So if your AP is the one that "enlightened" you to new and wonderful things, why not just leave your deadbeat husband for him? It seems, from your description, that the AP is the "better" man. Oh wait. You love your husband right? You cheated on him because you love him...

It never ceases to amaze me how WS will justify every angle of the A. It's always the BSs fault. Always. They don't want enough sex, they want too much, they aren't adventurous enough, they're too adventurous, they wear flip flops, they snore, they watch too much T.V., they don't do enough household chores, they don't make enough money, they make too much money and are away from home too much, they don't plan enough vacations, they don't talk enough, they talk too much, they aren't creative enough for holidays, birthdays, and special occasions, they're too creative for holidays, birthdays, and special occasions, the BS is depressed, the BS is cruel, the BS is emotionally cut-off, the BS is a jokester, the BS is a douche. Shall I go on?

Look, I get it. There are some people that are very hard to live with. (Whether BS or WS) Some people are mean by nature. I know a woman that is a real witch. Like seriously. Nobody likes her. Does she deserve to be cheated on? Nope. Her husband still has options. But he stays for the classic, "We work it out for the kids" crap. Yeah, they're not working it out for the kids. They are in complete dysfunction and passing it on to the kids. Their kids have no clue what a healthy relationship dynamic is because all they see is chaos and that their parents are "trying". (If you call resentment, zero intimacy, fighting, backbiting, and a "You-do-your-thing-I'll-do-mine" attitude "trying")

No person deserves to be cheated on. EVER. For any reason.

Can a relationship heal after an affair? Yes. Can a relationship blossom into something it's never been after an affair? Yes. But to claim that a marriage benefited and was "saved" from an affair!? Not hardly.

Do BSs have problems they need to work out? Yes. Is cheating a way to get them to do that? No. What happens if the reverse happens? You cheat, and they get worse? Because they are already struggling with FOO and whatever all else, and you just piled it up on top of them. Why the heck would you risk that!? (Because you state he was a jerk already and you "couldn't" leave the M) What would have happened if you'd cheated and it was a dealbreaker for him? You damaged him further and nobody is "better off".

Does my husband have problems? Yes he does. (I do too.) Is it my job to make sure he addresses them? No. That's his job, his choice. He may or may not work on them. Doesn't give me a right to cheat on him. Doesn't give me a right to abuse him and tell him my A was HIS fault because he couldn't get his act together. I'm a SAHM. Leaving would have been very difficult. But it still would have been better than cheating on him. Even now, there are things that need worked on. At the moment, he has no interest on digging in. I have to decide how to react to that. Do I get pissed and cheat again? Or do I sit back, be patient, encourage him, and support him and come up with a game plan in the event he never does? I have options. I'm exploring them. Cheating isn't one of them.

Stop justifying your A. It was wrong. Don't care what excuse you come up with, or what color airbrush gun you use to make that excuse pretty. If your BS is a pain, leave. It's really that simple.

What I see is that you have demanded that your BS change to make you happy. You cheated, blamed him for it, and expected him to change in accordance with your "standard". Pretty sad really.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6134 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
atsenaotie
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Default  Posted: 10:39 AM, May 28th (Tuesday)

BostonGirl,
After literally years with no warmth or connection, with no apparent prospect for making positive change in that direction after repeatedly, respectfully trying to do so,...

Yep, I remember feeling that. Repeated MC had not worked, IC for me had not fixed the M problems. So I found other interests as I withdrew my focus on FWW. I volunteered, went back to old activities, started to clean-up finances so that when DSs were older we would be able to survive a D financially.

It never occurred to me to have an A (despite opportunities), and touch being the primary love language for me.

...a way to confirm that yes, in fact, connection and affirmation and affection and sex and compliments and warmth and closeness really, really matter to me, and I absolutely could not stay in a marriage where that was absent.

And yet you did?

So why did you stay with such a looser (from your posts) BS, why did you R with him?

...100% of the A is on the WS, but sometimes...

One of the communication skills FWW learned was that the word 'but' in a sentence has the effect of negating everything said before it.

FWW went into and out of DDay convinced I was broken and she was justified in her A. 2+ years of IC later I ask what is/was broken in me that I should be working on, and she says nothing. She realizes that it was her perceptions that made my actions seem unloving, just as her perceptions made her APs seem like fond friends she could love and be affirmed by.


LTA BS 53
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4109 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
BostonGirl
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Default  Posted: 1:04 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

Wow, y'all are sure enjoying filling in a lot of blanks with the wrong info. Knock yourself out.

I'll just point out out that the OP and I share the similarity that we totally own what we did, took it as a sign that things were fucked up in our respective marriages, and have picked it up as a charge to make things change for the better. We run completely counter to the stereotype of secretive, conflict-avoidant, cowardly WS who's unwilling to admit, discuss, disclose, be transparent.

The OP had an EA. sounds like that was limited to online contact.

Her husband was already disconnected and even in this crisis refuses to connect.

Who is betraying who here?

Aubrie, you did manage to hit one nail right on the head: I absolutely did not want my kids to grow up in a family to learn that people who "love" each other don't show affection, or respond to their loved ones' sadness or tears, or give help when it's asked, or expect or exhibit accountability. Their dad is a pleasant and genial man but behind that surface there was a lot, a lot, about that "nice guy" that really was not nice at all--deeply selfish, deeply disrespectful, unwilling to handle responsibilities.

Long story short, but neglect is exactly as damaging as abuse, but far more insidious to detect and address because it is the ABSENCE of action rather than clear and present boundary violations. I don't have time to fill in all the details but I will say that every single day I live with bitter sadness that being able to just talk things out straightforwardly and lovingly like two caring partners on the same team really just never ever ever worked. Only with a LOT of personal work has my husband even approached that and he will fully admit that he never would have dreamt of starting it if I hadn't gone ballistic. The A was what lit the fuse. Just telling it like it is.


It'll all be OK in the end. If it's not OK, it's not the end.

Posts: 133 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: Boston
tired girl
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Default  Posted: 1:29 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

Just making sure I am getting this right, your fix to your M was to go out and fuck another man so that your H could fix his shit and then your M could be ok? That is basically what this boils down to.

And just so we are clear, I had most of the same problems you did, and I don't see that fucking another man fixed jack shit with my marriage, or my H or me for that matter. The fact that you still think that this was a good fix after being on this site blows my mind.

It doesn't matter what kind of marriage you are in. BG, I did one better than you, I moved out, after asking for everything you did, I begged for a long time for MC, and got told it was my problem. So I left. And I can still see that what I did betrayed everything I ever believed in about myself. Maybe you just never held those things sacred to begin with.

ETA: And by the way, my H knew within 8 hrs of what I did. There were no lies, no secrets. I have always owned what I did. So no big difference there.

[This message edited by tired girl at 1:30 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)]


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4712 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
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Default  Posted: 1:40 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

The OP had an EA. sounds like that was limited to online contact.
Oh so that makes it less of a crime? I had an online EA. Doesn't make my betrayal any better or worse than a ONS with a hooker. Infidelity is infidelity. Period.

Her husband was already disconnected and even in this crisis refuses to connect.

Who is betraying who here?

The OP still has choices. Just like you. You still didn't have to cheat.

We run completely counter to the stereotype of secretive, conflict-avoidant, cowardly WS who's unwilling to admit, discuss, disclose, be transparent
You want a gold sticker for that? I don't care if you warned your husband, "You go to counseling right now or I'm going to fuck the neighbor." you still took a cowardly path and cheated. A cheater is a coward. Don't care how you try to paint it.

So how exactly are you showing your kids a good example here? "Welp kiddos, it's like this. If you marry a person that ends up not listening or doing whatever you like or need, just fuck another person. That'll fix everything right up! Worked for me!"

Good luck with that.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6134 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
BostonGirl
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Default  Posted: 2:38 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

Wow, you guys sure are fixated on the fucking, aren't you? Actually it was the lying that was the big red flag, feeling like the disconnect had gotten so great and so insurmountable that there was absolutely no reason to consider my husband at all.

Isn't that what you read time and time again on SI: the only thing worse than the sex was the lying, the total disregard.

It was when I realized that I had given up and was finally treating him the way he treated me that I stopped what I was doing, came clean, and demanded change. Yes, I do get a gold star for that.

To borrow an idea from Not Just Friends, I realized that I had stopped trying to open up windows in his walls and had started putting up a wall too. THAT is what I will tell my kids about, to be very mindful of the walls and windows--including, when someone puts up walls between you, it is not worth it to beat yourself bloody trying to tear them down.

I reserve the right to be human and imperfect too sometimes, and you are totally welcome to call me whatever names you like if that floats your boat.


It'll all be OK in the end. If it's not OK, it's not the end.

Posts: 133 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: Boston
tired girl
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Default  Posted: 2:46 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

You disconnected the moment you considered doing this.

No, you don't get a gold star for this, because the only change I have heard you talk about is your H's. Not yours. Not how you have realized that it was the worst betrayal of yourself and everything you thought of yourself. How could you become that person who lied and disregarded another human being so easily? You instead still put all of the blame on your H and your M, apparently all of your time here has taught you nothing.

Your H and your M had nothing to do with your decision to become a liar and a cheater. You made that decision all on your own. Don't blame him.

Was your M perfect, probably not. Was your H perfect, probably not. If you didn't like it, get out, make an exit plan, execute it. Don't become a liar and a cheat to force someone to bend to your will. Because that is what you have done.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4712 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
Deeply Scared
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Red  Posted: 2:58 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

I reserve the right to be human and imperfect too sometimes, and you are totally welcome to call me whatever names you like if that floats your boat

BG...no one has called you any names. Your attitude towards those that have questioned your posts is doing you the most disservice.

There really isn't any need to get snarky with them.


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


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Aubrie
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Default  Posted: 3:32 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

Wow, you guys sure are fixated on the fucking, aren't you?
Not anymore than the fact that you're fixated on your A being a marital savior and blessing. Affairs generally involve fucking. Whether physically or mentally.

I am not name calling unless you count where I said you're a cheater. Did you not cheat on your husband? Is that not why you are a member of SI?

the only change I have heard you talk about is your H's. Not yours. Not how you have realized that it was the worst betrayal of yourself and everything you thought of yourself. How could you become that person who lied and disregarded another human being so easily? You instead still put all of the blame on your H and your M, apparently all of your time here has taught you nothing.
Pretty much sums it up.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6134 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
20WrongsVs1
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Default  Posted: 5:16 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

May I isolate BostonGirl's point that her A had some positive results, and ask for y'all's input on that narrow topic?

How do both partners deal with it, if R is going well--but you grudgingly admit that something good came out of the A? In our case, it has spurred me to deal with unresolved feelings/damage from CSA, made us reconsider our "unconventional M," and so far has led to better sex. I wish I could turn back the clock and not sign up for AM, and instead get up the courage to start a dialog with BH. We could've gotten to the same place, in a healthy way, I truly believe that.

Sorry, I don't mean to thread-hijack, but my question dovetails with my BH's JFO thread (if I'm allowed to say that). It's become obvious, due to the A, that I have deep unresolved damage from being molested when I was about 7-8 years old. My brain repressed the memory from the end of the abuse (little me stood up to the POS pedophile!) until I turned 18, and I've mostly rugswept since. I'm oversimplifying, and I (and he, and we) have so much work ahead, but I do believe that damage led me think our "complex" relationship was acceptable. And ultimately to my A--not that it's an excuse, because I chose the A.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1093 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
tired girl
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Default  Posted: 5:25 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

Absolutely you can ask about that.

The difference I see there is that you are bringing up a lot of things that you see as issues within YOURSELF and not your H. Big difference.

I also have not seen you crediting your affair as being a good thing. Also a difference.

Now, if we take what is a horrible decision and try to figure out how we came to do that to ourselves and our H's that is not us twisting the bad situation into good. It is us trying to fix ourselves so we can be safe, for us and for our spouses if they have chosen to give us a second chance.

Does good eventually come out of these horrible choices? Ya, but way down the road. And only after much heartache on everyone's part. So, is that worth it? I hardly think so. As waywards, the best we can do is fix our shit so we never bring this kind of heartache to ourselves and our spouses again. That is the good we can bring to this.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4712 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
Aubrie
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Default  Posted: 5:34 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

20Wrongs, my husband will be the first person to speak up and say that yes, good did come from my A. We have a relationship now that we both had only dreamed of before. And the work still isn't done.

But look at the cost!

I betrayed him. Multiple times! Each time, getting deeper and deeper into worse crap.

I abused him. I knew he has massive FOO issues and I made the problem worse. There were areas I protect him from his family, but then I piled my own emotional abuse on top of that. I am working on that right now. It's hard to hear him talk about it. He's finally talking about it. And it's soul crushing to see how unhealthy our relationship was. It's all on me. I dealt with it in a very wrong way.

After the 3rd A, he literally checked out of the marriage. He worked, brought home the check, and that was it. Nothing else. He was a robot. Did we have sex? Yeah, on occasion. But there was absolutely ZERO emotional intimacy. Know how I reacted to that? Having my final A. Digging myself into a massive pit to the point I was actually committing to withdrawing from my husband and to meeting a guy in a hotel or our home.

There were other options. There were other ways out of our mess. I could have gone to counseling. We could have attended MC. We could have done a million things different. But I chose, deliberately and willingly, to send that email to the AP, to set up the cameras and take those pictures, to download them and email them to him, to do all the nasty crap that we did. I willingly did that. Knowing full well that I was destroying what little shreds remained of my marriage. I poured on the gasoline, lit the match, threw it on the gas, and watched it burn.

Was doing everything that I did worth what my marriage today? I don't know. The cost was huge. The risk was great. My husband could have turned around and walked out. We could have been done.

Thankfully he stayed. We are healing. But I would give anything to have done it differently. I would give anything to look into his eyes and not remember the pain I caused him. To take away his pain completely. To not remember all the horrible things I did with and for the AP. To not be guilty of letting another man become a part of my most intimate moments. To not have willingly given what belonged to me and my husband to another man.

For all the healing we have done, the damage is great. I still can't do certain things, still can't shop certain places, still can't listen to certain types of music, and a host of other things.

Awesome marriage or not, cheating was the wrong way to get it.

[This message edited by Aubrie84 at 5:35 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)]


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6134 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 6:25 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

do both partners deal with it, if R is going well--but you grudgingly admit that something good came out of the A?

R us going well for us, but not out of the A. For her maybe like a drunk hitting bottom. For me, making the best of a bad situation.

I never believe that an end justifies an immoral means.


LTA BS 53
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4109 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
20WrongsVs1
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Default  Posted: 10:16 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

I would give anything to have done it differently. I would give anything to look into his eyes and not remember the pain I caused him. To take away his pain completely. To not remember all the horrible things I did with and for the AP. To not be guilty of letting another man become a part of my most intimate moments. To not have willingly given what belonged to me and my husband to another man.

Thanks, ITA, very well said. How can an A seem like such a good idea at the time, and so tragically foolish in hindsight? This is a fundamental question I hope to answer for myself.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1093 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
Topic Posts: 66