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Divorce/Separation
User Topic: Abbondad...
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 6:50 AM, April 29th (Monday)

Hi Everyone (old friends and new),

I have decided to separate (again) from my WW. We are not divorcing at this time.

I am so very very sorry to all who have taken such pains and time with me. I feel like I have disappointed you all, as well as myself in so many ways.

I could list and elaborate all the reasons, but they will ultimately be rationalizations. I just can't bring myself to divorce at this time.

Please, if it's not too much to ask: do not despair of me.I am bruised and battered by my own 2x4s. Please offer your understanding and sympathy if you can. If you can't and simply throw up your hands and walk away, I understand.

I want to use this time to detach, really detach--for me. I will 180 and NC as much as possible given the fact that we will be coparenting. I will try my hardest to do these right this time.

I am setting up my support: family, friends, activities, time with my children, work, and therapy to tackle my deep issues that I don't want to prevent me from moving into a new relationship at some time in the future. And these issues include first and foremost--as you well know by now--my fear of abandonment and reliance on another for my own identity.

And maybe at the "end," although it is a process without a true end point, I will be ready to take that leap.

Thank you all. You have become invaluable to me.

David


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
Williesmom
Member
Member # 22870
Default  Posted: 6:57 AM, April 29th (Monday)

((Abbondad))

It takes time. It took me 2 years to come to the realization that I wasn't enough to make it work - it takes both of us.

You'll do what you need to do. Don't beat yourself up too bad.


You can stuff your sorries in a sack, mister. -George Costanza
There is a special place in hell for women who don't help other women. - Madeleine Albright

Posts: 7416 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Western PA
cayc
Member
Member # 21964
Default  Posted: 7:13 AM, April 29th (Monday)

Don't apologize to us! S sounds like it's the perfect option for you. A way to remove yourself from the in-you-face-drama and get some breathing room. Losing a marriage isn't a decision that's easy to make quickly regardless of the cause. Even if you get it intellectually, emotionally it can take a lot longer to feel "right" about it. It took me 2 years of circles to finally file and get tough with myself about ending the M and getting away.

(((Abbondad)))


"The difference between involvement and commitment is like ham and eggs. The chicken is involved, the pig is committed." -Martina Navratilova
"The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me." -Ayn Rand

Posts: 2999 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Mexico
roughroadahead
Member
Member # 36060
Default  Posted: 7:41 AM, April 29th (Monday)

Does your state have legal S? It might be worth looking into if it does, so you have things like property (ie use of marital home), support and visitation spelled out in writing. If you ultimately reconcile, in most cases you simply move back in (with intent to do so permanently) to void it. If you go on to D, the sep agreement becomes the bulk of the settlement, and the D process is shorter.


BS-Me 30s
WS-Him 30s
D-Day 4/2012 (Insisted EA only)
D-Day 5/2012 (Did I say EA? Ummm..)
Numerous other TT/broken NC d-days until S 1/2013. D settled 11/2013
MOW-coworker, 40s.
2 DS and DD all w/autism

Posts: 725 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: USA
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 7:44 AM, April 29th (Monday)

(((AD)))

I want to say that separation is a good step, however your track record indicates to me that you are going to repeat the behaviors you have already been through.

You need to get yourself educated on being Co-dependent, and how to be In-dependent. You exhibit every characteristic of being Codependent. These are hard habits to break, trust me. (BTDT) But when you can change those behaviors, one at a time you will feel stronger, and more independent, and you will progress to being happy in your life.

One of your last posts in the other forum, about family dinner, said that it made your sad to think of what you are GOING to lose. I just sat there SCREAMING That you have ALREADY lost that. It's just an act, just a charade.

May I suggest that you move forward with D while S, and if for some miraculous reason she gets her head out of her A** then you can talk and consider R.

Delaying D is going to only confuse, and make if more difficult for your children. As a Parent you really need to consider your kids above all else.

You will find support here as well, but I just hate to see you continuing to hurt yourself, and your kids. Your STBXW is a master of manipulation, and has been always able to pull you into her drama.

((( and Strength ))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 7790 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 7:52 AM, April 29th (Monday)

No need to feel sorry at all Abbondad. Everyone does what they can when they can. There is no "right" way to do this. There are many different paths to surviving infidelity. You walk the path that you must to get through this and we will still be here to support you.

It took me 1.5 years to make decisions that I was okay with. Just know that you will be okay and it will get better. I wish you the best and keep posting and reading.

ETA: I was behind on your other thread. I "3rd" the suggestion that you read "Codependant No More". Reading this book will help you to detach. The codependancy is the "fear" that is stopping you from taking big steps. Read the book and you will realize there is nothing stopping you from moving forward in your life for you and your kids.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 8:13 AM, April 29th (Monday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
D hopefully official in 7/2014

Posts: 1810 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
roughroadahead
Member
Member # 36060
Default  Posted: 8:03 AM, April 29th (Monday)

Yes, I second tushnurse. I mentioned codependency on your other thread. There are two things it would be awesome to accomplish today. First is to call around Ls to see how or if you can protect yourself legally during S-but-not-D. Second is to get onto Amazon and order or download the following books:
"Codependent no more" and/or "the new codependency", both by Melody Beattie, "getting past your breakup" (because your old relationship is dead. Even R is forging a new one), and "from abandonment to healing" (because you need to focus on your healing regardless of outcome).

You mentioned BPD on your other thread. Maybe others will have recommendations to that end.


BS-Me 30s
WS-Him 30s
D-Day 4/2012 (Insisted EA only)
D-Day 5/2012 (Did I say EA? Ummm..)
Numerous other TT/broken NC d-days until S 1/2013. D settled 11/2013
MOW-coworker, 40s.
2 DS and DD all w/autism

Posts: 725 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: USA
meplustwo
Member
Member # 39082
Default  Posted: 8:18 AM, April 29th (Monday)

So sorry for your situation. I am at the beginning of my process. My story is on my profile. I am trying bc and 180, but I want it to work out with my wh. It feels pathetic. I wish he knew what he wanted, but I'm trying not to wait on that. No need to apologize for your feelings. You can't help how you feel. Take care of you and your children right now. Get strong for you. I understand about not D filing. I told my wh I would file in July if he still didn't know what he wanted, but I don't know now...I may change my mind. It is a big step. Please take this time to strengthen yourself, love yourself. If you would like, you can message me for support as you try to mcg and 180. It's not easy! Hugs!


Me(34) - BS
Him(35) - WH
Married: 9 years
Two Kids: 4 and 6
D-Day #1: 7/12, D-Day #2: 4/24/13
Affair: EA to PA with coworker
Status of A: Says he broke it off after I went to her house and confronted both of them

Posts: 59 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Maine
ProbableIceCream
Member
Member # 37468
Default  Posted: 8:39 AM, April 29th (Monday)

Abbondad,

Regarding filing for divorce:

Cons:
1. Time to fill out the forms / maybe do a free or low cost consult with a lawyer
2. Filing fee

Pros:
1. Protect yourself legally/financially
2. Helps you detach
3. (if you speak to a lawyer even briefly and find out your rights) Feeling of liberation--"I know my rights and I can assert them!"

Note that you can cancel it at any time. Actually, all you have to do to cancel it is do nothing.

This next part may be unique to my state, but I believe it's fairly common: Last year, when I filed the first time, I used acceptance of service, which meant my wife needed to sign a document saying she saw the papers. She dragged it out a couple months before I got a notice saying I needed to serve or the case would be closed. Anyway, my point is that you don't even have to serve her right away, and you can cancel the whole process if you need to, but you get immediate protection. Also consider legal separation if your state has it, but keep in mind, depending on your state, you may need to renegotiate some things if you change it to divorce.

(One last thing regarding not having to serve her: I'm not saying you can keep it totally secret, I'm just saying you can move at your own pace; she may, for example, get mail from a lawyer based on the public record that you filed, advertising their services, which my wife did, and ignored.)


Me: born 1982.
DD: born 2006 (I have abt 80% custody).
My D-Day was April 2012. Divorced Jul 2013.

Posts: 676 | Registered: Nov 2012
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 8:54 AM, April 29th (Monday)

Dad, are you concerned that if you file for D that it will *push* your WW away from you and give her an *excuse* to go back to OM?

Also, has she agreed to live in her separation apart or will she be continuing to live in the house with you?


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7683 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 9:03 AM, April 29th (Monday)

I just finished reading the rest of your thread in general. Continue to get support for yourself but please document EVERYTHING. Document how much time you spend with the kids and how much your WW spends with them. Also document any times she doesn't pick them up or do what she says. Keep a VAR in your pocket at all times when you are around her. Don't be suprised if she tries to file a false DV complaint against you at some point. You have to protect yourself and your kids.

I know you aren't ready and my advice a few posts up still stands. So do what you can when you can.

Even if you aren't ready yet get with your lawyer and get all the legwork done so you can call and have her served whenever you want. She is now going to paint the picture that you are the crazy one and if you do manage to detach it's going to get worse because your world no longer revolves around her and you know she is the center of the Universe in her mind.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
D hopefully official in 7/2014

Posts: 1810 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
stretch13
Member
Member # 26894
Default  Posted: 9:09 AM, April 29th (Monday)

one thing about dealing with someone who is feeling somewhat agreeable toward you right now - get an agreement in writing if you can.

i know florida is a little different from where i am, but talk to a lawyer. when XH was still at least faking attempts to get me to R, i got him to agree to pretty much whatever i wanted. i was fair, but i had him under my thumb at that moment. i'm so glad we did our whole marital separation agreement right after dday because when it came time to file, he was less agreeable. my MSA became my divorce petition. i had nothing else to do but file. he would have had to start fighting me then and it would have been expensive and hard.

nothing wrong with doing some paperwork. show her you are serious. that will kick her into gear faster than any honey you can pour on this situation.


http://www.facebook.com/hardheadpress
http://www.amazon.com/Eli-Ely-Ezekiel-Tyrus/dp/0986042900/

http://hardheadpress.com/

life must be rich and full of loving--it's no good otherwise, no good at all, for anyone - j. kerouac


Posts: 3929 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: east coast
newlysingle
Member
Member # 38735
Default  Posted: 9:17 AM, April 29th (Monday)

I agree with Strech13. Get her to agree to what you need while she's still in the fog. I got everything I wanted and them some from STBXH because he was in such a hurry to get rid of me and be with skank. Reality about his dire financial situation (because I took 80% of his income for the next 5 years) is setting in and he's wishing he'd negotiated better. Oh well, too late now!


BW - Me (37)
XWH - (37) The Gnat
OW - Some dumb whore he picked up in another state and moved here here. Known as Hello Kitty.
M for 8 years, together for 10
1 DD (5), 1 DS (1 year)
Dday 3/13
Divorced 9/20/13

Posts: 809 | Registered: Mar 2013
LonelyHusband
Member
Member # 34145
Default  Posted: 9:25 AM, April 29th (Monday)

I ask the same question as GonnaBe. How will this separation manifest itself. Is she leaving the house or staying in there with you?

Please don't tell us YOU are moving out.


BS ( me) 41
fWS (OktoberMest) 35
D day #1 29/10/2011, D day #2 15/112011, D day #3 15/03/2012
Reconciling.
“It’s better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all”, is inadequate consolation when you vacuum up a child's hamster'

Posts: 1290 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: UK
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 9:27 AM, April 29th (Monday)

SHE is moving out for sure. She broached the idea of me moving but I refused. Plus it doesn't make logistical sense as I am on sabbatical and pick up the kids down the street, whereas she works full time across town far from the kids' school.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
velveteer
Member
Member # 30997
Default  Posted: 10:03 AM, April 29th (Monday)

Hey Abbondad

So finally in S/D? I'm sorry that you find yourself here, but you will get great support and advice.

There is no need to apologise - this is YOUR Life. I get that you just can't yet face D - that' your decision and entirely your right, and many here know just how that feels.

For now, separating will give you a chance to get some distance from all of the toxic drama that your WW has been putting you through. Use the time well - focus on yourself and the kids and as others have said, take the next steps forward. Even baby steps - they all count.

Most of all - DETACH - 180, NC whatever you want to call it, just get out of your WW's orbit and pronto. NC except kids and finance, and if possible keep that to email.

Good luck - bumpy road ahead, but you will get there - no doubt about that.

V


Divorced

Posts: 861 | Registered: Jan 2011
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 10:07 AM, April 29th (Monday)

Also cosigning Stretch's post and newlysingle. I also got my lawyer to draw up the separation agreement while my WW was still foggy. It was fair but much more fair to me than it would have been otherwise. The sooner you get it in writing the better especially stuff with the kids and visitation.

She broached the idea of me moving but I refused.
^^^This worries me. Initially your WW moved out on her own towards her new life. Kudos for refusing t omove out but she is starting to wake up to reality. There is more than one type of FOG. Even if she comes out of the A fOG it doesn't mean she won't go right into the "DO-OVER FOG" where she needs to redo her life without Abbondad. Yes that means she gets the kids and you just foot the bill for everything because once you are gone all her problems magically go away.

My WW did that and I was lucky enough to get into a lawyer while she felt some guilt to get terms that I was okay with and wouldn't be pissed about for the rest of my life.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
D hopefully official in 7/2014

Posts: 1810 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 10:19 AM, April 29th (Monday)

I don't get the sense that MrsDad feels guilty or is gonna be *agreeable* about signing any type of *terms*.....just sayin'.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7683 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
kiki1
Member
Member # 37184
Default  Posted: 10:24 AM, April 29th (Monday)

(((Abbondad))) No need for apologies AD. Many of us have felt unsurety regarding our situations. There is no easy, clearly defined path. Strength to you

Posts: 507 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: new york
velveteer
Member
Member # 30997
Default  Posted: 11:06 AM, April 29th (Monday)

On re-reading this I am going to add another voice to the negotiate while she's foggy camp. Unless she is a sociopath, she WILL feel guilt about all of this and you can use that. Think about this.

V


Divorced

Posts: 861 | Registered: Jan 2011
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 11:19 AM, April 29th (Monday)

Hi Everyone,

There is no Marital Separation Agreement in Florida :-(


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
veritas
Member
Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 11:31 AM, April 29th (Monday)

It's one of those tomato/tomahto things. An MSA is normally one of those things that you get when you get divorced. There is no legal separation in Florida, or in most states for that matter, which means that everything you do or don't do at this point matters. Your wife can legally do anything she wants and half of the burden is yours if you don't file. I understand that you're not ready to divorce, but just be ready for the blowback of anything she does.

[This message edited by veritas at 11:32 AM, April 29th (Monday)]


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10168 | Registered: Feb 2004
Mikey56
Member
Member # 38063
Default  Posted: 11:35 AM, April 29th (Monday)

AD,

Regarding agreements in general, even if they are not legal, it will be probably be easier to get her agreement on things now while she is feeling guilty.

I had a previous marriage that ended with a cheating wife. A buddy of mine who had just gone through the same thing advised me to act fast while it was still fresh and she felt bad about what she did.

In hindsight it was some of the best advice I received.

Peace bro.


Posts: 113 | Registered: Jan 2013
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 11:37 AM, April 29th (Monday)

Good Luck Abbondad,

Separation worked for me when I needed to detach and protect myself about a year out from dday. As you noted, there is no legal separation in Florida, but there is pretty liberal law about abandonment of the M house. So long as you are talking about temporary separation, helping to pay bills and taxes you should be good. Your attorney will clarify, and also have advice on joint accounts, credit cards, etc.

I really, really found being out of the house good for me and my healing.

--Ats


LTA BS 53
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4078 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
ProbableIceCream
Member
Member # 37468
Default  Posted: 11:49 AM, April 29th (Monday)

And remember, you can always "unfile." Like I said earlier, if you just do nothing or you explicitly drop the case, it goes away. But you automatically get a whole bunch of protections starting when you file (e.g. in at least some states you get protection from new debts and any children can't be moved out of state, and a bunch of other stuff). I'd say it's a good hedge. It's why I filed last year; I absolutely did NOT want to lose my marriage, but I was terrified that my wife would never 'be herself' again and would take all my stuff, so I figured, hey, I can protect myself, and if I'm wrong I can always undo it.

I understand you may be scared of her reaction if you file. I'm not sure how to address this. I'll leave this to other people here. I definitely understand that fear though. It was hard to admit to myself, but I was very scared of my wife by the time I filed.


Me: born 1982.
DD: born 2006 (I have abt 80% custody).
My D-Day was April 2012. Divorced Jul 2013.

Posts: 676 | Registered: Nov 2012
CharlieFoxtrot
Member
Member # 38010
Default  Posted: 3:57 PM, April 29th (Monday)

It took me awhile as well, I tossed one set of D papers 4 years ago. Mainly, and gently, just be honest with yourself and begin to strengthen your boundaries. Research, find out as much as you can, take baby steps (or no steps) but don't travel backwards. The rear view is not your direction, IYKWIM.

(((Abbondad)))


Weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning.

Posts: 505 | Registered: Jan 2013
stretch13
Member
Member # 26894
Default  Posted: 4:10 PM, April 29th (Monday)

there is no "legal separation" in VA either. the MSA is a document created by your lawyer (possible to do yourself, but not recommended). it basically contains all of the terms of a D, and serves to settle interim CS and custody issues. we had to take it UPS and get it notarized by both of us. i sent my lawyer a copy. nothing is filed with the state. we held onto it for the year we had to be separated...i balked a little longer...then i pulled the trigger, wrote my lawyer and said, "file." from there it became my divorce petition and was a matter of weeks with almost no more intervention from me.

anyway, in my state, it just functions as a contract between two parties.

[This message edited by stretch13 at 4:11 PM, April 29th (Monday)]


http://www.facebook.com/hardheadpress
http://www.amazon.com/Eli-Ely-Ezekiel-Tyrus/dp/0986042900/

http://hardheadpress.com/

life must be rich and full of loving--it's no good otherwise, no good at all, for anyone - j. kerouac


Posts: 3929 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: east coast
stretch13
Member
Member # 26894
Default  Posted: 4:12 PM, April 29th (Monday)

but all the states are so different. it gets confusing everywhere. (((abbondad)))


http://www.facebook.com/hardheadpress
http://www.amazon.com/Eli-Ely-Ezekiel-Tyrus/dp/0986042900/

http://hardheadpress.com/

life must be rich and full of loving--it's no good otherwise, no good at all, for anyone - j. kerouac


Posts: 3929 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: east coast
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 5:30 PM, April 29th (Monday)

Hey, Everyone,

Thanks for responding. I will get the codependency book. I also just ordered "Feeling Good" by David Burns, which addresses similar and related issues from a rational emotive approach.

I'm pretty wrecked up but am trying to take it literally moment by moment, rejecting poisonous thoughts. Then when they begin to really swarm I make sure to do something with my kids, if only for a little while. Just played some ball with my son, now we will read a book.

My fury returns though when they begin their "When is Mommy coming home" not knowing what awaits them yet again. (We haven't told them yet.)


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
Ashland13
Member
Member # 38378
Default  Posted: 7:49 PM, April 29th (Monday)

HI Abondad,

I'm really sorry for your difficulty but also glad for you that you took the enormous leap towards healing. I found that when we tried to reconcile, though it turned out false, it was really difficult even to be near STBXH after knowing what he had done. It was too soon and too hard to concentrate on me when I strove to make him happy-while he texted OW all the while.

I'm sorry for your pain and I can also relate to fear of abandonment, as does our daughter now. STBXH tries hard to minimalize every part of what he did but it cannot be done. What's done is done.

I couldn't fathom divorce when he first left, though people chanted, yelled, taunted, cajoled, pleaded with me to do so, the very first week. That was people with knowledge of his A and other activities that I did not have.

I don't know about you, but one of the hardest parts of all for me about this is knowing that our spouse changed right under our noses. We even have a really open floor plan and he still managed to hide porn for many years and his dating websites.

I'm really sorry for what you're going through and hope that your support system can find what you need, in this new and unknown chapter of your life.

NC is the hardest part for me because I am still seeking answers, but trying really hard to stop. I did a little reward system that failed after false R and it helped to set very small goals with NC, too.

What really makes NC most successful for me is the pain he still causes. I don't know if any of that will help at all, but I wish you well.

I just spent a few weeks in Florida and it was really nice. I spent time at St. Augustine and parts in the north and though the bugs were out, it was nice to be warm so early in the year!


Ashland 13

A person is a person, no matter how small. -Dr. Suess


Posts: 2134 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: New England
Ashland13
Member
Member # 38378
Default  Posted: 7:51 PM, April 29th (Monday)

P.S. Working things out while the WS is guilty is good advice. Mine is more cooperative and right now I am very vulnerable, so though it felt odd to be calculating against him, I chose now during pregnancy to file.


Ashland 13

A person is a person, no matter how small. -Dr. Suess


Posts: 2134 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: New England
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 8:54 PM, April 29th (Monday)

If you file for divorce its not necessari;y something you have to go through with. You can withdraw the application if reconciliation takes place.

Right now your wife gets to leave and restart her affair with OM who must really be delighted. Meanwhile you sit at home babysitting while she's getting reaquainted with her lover both sexually and emotionally. Amazingly you won't even file for divorce. You are getting the worst of both worlds; handing your wife over to another guy and still remaining tied to her by choice.

As others have said filing for divorce right now will throw your wife off-guard; she will be aware of her marriage slipping away even as she cavorts with the OM. However you seem hell-bent to make sure she can f**k other men while safe in the knowledge her family is intact.

Your generosity is astounding and very unwise. You will eventually destroy whats left of your self-esteem.


Posts: 1689 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Grace and Flowers
Member
Member # 34431
Default  Posted: 9:15 PM, April 29th (Monday)

Gonna throw in my two cents....I've kept up on your story, but not commented.

Its hard to overcome codependency....but you can do it. I did. So I agree with the others, work on that.

And please, please, please.....put SOMETHING in writing. After D Day, WXH and I hand-wrote a post-nuptial agreement....spelling out who got what, how the debts were split, and what the amount of spousal maintenance would be (our kids were over 18). Then we had it notarized. WXH was feeling pretty guilty then. And basically, that ended up being our D agreement once we decided to D.

But here's the thing....if you don't do SOMETHING legal, than you are liable for debts she incurs. Sure, if you can prove you were physically separated at the time the debts were incurred, perhaps the court will allot them to her. But perhaps not. Either way, it will for sure cost you A LOT more in legal fees to get that straightened out. Suppose she opens some credit cards....with your name as joint holder....and maxes them out? Then you are in a world of financial hurt, brother.

I'm not swinging a 2x4....deciding, really KNOWING you NEED to divorce, can take a very long time. But as the others have said....get the process started. To protect yourself, and your kids. It's not over til it's over....starting the paperwork does not mean it's the final decision....but it does mean you are taking the first steps standing up, on your own.

[This message edited by SadMad2012 at 9:17 PM, April 29th (Monday)]


I'm Happy, not Sad!

Posts: 1148 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: US
crazynot
Member
Member # 24572
Default  Posted: 1:40 AM, April 30th (Tuesday)

Sorry to butt in at this point, Abbondad. I haven't been on this site for a while but just read your recent stuff yesterday. I am worried for you, and can feel the pain you're in, but I'm really concerned that you don't really appear to be separated yet - still living together in fact. And while you haven't started divorce proceedings, actually nothing's changed, you're still in the same hellish situation that has caused you and your kids so much pain. As others who know more about US law have said, at the moment you're entirely unprotected, financially and legally. Your wife clearly has no-one's interests at heart but her own, and you are allowing her to continue abusing you until something legal is done. I worry that facing up to this is what you're scared of, Abbondad... as if you feel that seeing a lawyer makes it real and irrevocable. It IS real, but nothing is ever irrevocable. The only thing that changes when you file is that YOU have a bit more security and also that you've taken back some power. My other word of advice (from one who has been there and still goes there, believe me!!!) is to give up trying to analyse your emotions or your situation. Reading books about it is just a costly way of putting off doing what deep down you know you must do. Apologies if this sounds a bit strong. And good wishes to you.


Me - 50
Him - 51
DDay 21 March 2009
Divorcing and delighted!

Do you want me to tell you something really subversive? Love is everything it's cracked up to be. That's why people are so cynical about it.


Posts: 839 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: UK
crazynot
Member
Member # 24572
Default  Posted: 1:44 AM, April 30th (Tuesday)

... And another thing... I'd tell the kids. This will be hard on them but the confusion is harder. They need their dad to be clear and healthy. Please focus on them entirely now. You are never alone in this world when you have your kids... they will get you through this.


Me - 50
Him - 51
DDay 21 March 2009
Divorcing and delighted!

Do you want me to tell you something really subversive? Love is everything it's cracked up to be. That's why people are so cynical about it.


Posts: 839 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: UK
PanicAttack53
Member
Member # 34195
Default  Posted: 2:39 AM, April 30th (Tuesday)

give up trying to analyse your emotions or your situation. Reading books about it is just a costly way of putting off doing what deep down you know you must do.

I respectfully disagree as someone who has *also* been there. Get the books AD, they help explain this shit in layman's terms. The minute we begin to think we know *all* of this, we can spiral right down the rabbit hole again.

As for your decision to S and hold off on D, it's your life and ultimately your call. Do what you think is best for you... but *please* keep an open mind to the experience offered by others who have traveled down this long dusty, dirty road before you.

And if I may add one more thing... I was a poster child for codependency, all 38 years of my M. So I too was scared shitless to take the final step needed to remove stbxWW's choke hold of abuse and toxic negativity on me.

What I wanted to express to you is this... those fearful thoughts you're having are just programed tapes you've been playing over and over in your mind for years. Once you realize that they *are* just thoughts and can't hurt you in any way, you'll begin to slowly erase those old tapes and replace the fear in them with new found strength and resolve. In essence, you'll rerecord the tapes to fit your new life.

That all may sound like a bunch of spun together cliches to you now. Please know that I & many others in this forum are living proof that there *is* a better life on the other side of this shit storm. As for myself... I am truly more happy with my life direction than ever before.

Strength AD... you CAN and WILL get there too!

Peace brother.

[This message edited by PanicAttack53 at 2:42 AM, April 30th (Tuesday)]


Me-BH Her-XWW | B/ 60 | D final on 10/1/13 I'm Lovin' life again!
Rest of the story really doesn't matter any more.
“Realize deeply that the present moment is all you have.” ― Eckhart Tolle

Posts: 868 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: Midwest
Exit Wounds
Member
Member # 32811
Default  Posted: 1:00 PM, April 30th (Tuesday)

(((Abbondad))) I am sorry you are hurting. We are here for you. We accept you unconditionally. Sit down and rest my friend. We are by your side.


Posts: 2478 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: With my dad...and my dog...
JamieMc
Member
Member # 37776
Default  Posted: 2:08 PM, April 30th (Tuesday)

I haven't responded before, tend to be mostly a lurker, but I have followed your story. As a BS that is dealing with her own shit, I implore you to put your kiddos on the front burner! I was raised in a FOO where the kids were just supposed to roll with the punches that our cheating alcoholic father handed out:( He is gone now but I still struggle with the fact that my Mom assumed we could & would deal with it. BTW I am 50 and a Mom of 3, so I have seen this from many angles and am also a BS. All the best Jamie


BS early 50's Wh also early 50's. I am Jamie, Mom to 3 great teens/young adults. My WH and I have been together more than half of our lives and married 25+. We are in MC & going to give R our best shot, hoping and praying for a better 2013!

Posts: 112 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: USA
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:13 PM, April 30th (Tuesday)

I've said it before: You people are so wonderful, to keep offering advice and unwavering support to someone stubborn and/or delusional like me.

So as I've said, we are separating. My wife says she is confident that THIS time she will be able to tackle her issues so she can return to me "as the wife I want to be to you."

THIS time I laid out MY needs and boundaries for separation: NC except for kids and business. No discussions about "us." No lingering when we exchange kids. No asking me to help her with tasks, favors, etc. We will be nice and even loving around the kids so they know we love each other (yeah, we still do and have no problem being affectionate), but that's it. No "I love you" or "I miss you texts," etc.

I need to detach properly this time to help myself heal on my own. This is necessary whether we end up together or if we do not. My hope/plan is that if we divorce at the end of the separation I will already have begun to detach so it won't be as devastating.

WELL: she does NOT like this whole NC thing. Says she feels I am saying goodbye to her. She is actually angry! Why? Cuz she won't have her cake any more. No husband perks.

I find myself becoming more and more indifferent to her "issues" and the BS overall. Not all the time. I still panic and cry, but the intervals are getting longer. I hope this is a good sign and I am on my path to detachment.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
tesla
Member
Member # 34697
Default  Posted: 8:41 PM, April 30th (Tuesday)

I would like to make a suggestion abbondad...do your separation thing...but still file. It gives you a very important legal protection...namely, that she doesn't take off with the kids.
I don't want to scare you but you never know how a wayward is going to react when the betrayed spouse starts detaching. Mine broke into my house and stole one of the dogs. There was nothing I could do because I didn't have temporary orders filed. Thought he would be a good guy...but he kinda went crazy instead.
Just a cautionary tale.


"Thou art the son and heir of a mongrel bitch." --King Lear

Posts: 4541 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: Indiana
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:45 PM, April 30th (Tuesday)

Tesla,

But if I file then would she be served? That is, she would know about it (?) And if she does then that would sabotage the whole point of the separation, no? Specifically she'd freak and that would be it: end of separation, beginning of divorce.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
roughroadahead
Member
Member # 36060
Default  Posted: 9:02 PM, April 30th (Tuesday)

Abbondad, please don't enter S with the intent that *this* will be what wakes her up, finally. That's not detaching at all. Detaching isn't just about not worrying about her issues. It also means that yes, you're facing up to the end of the marriage. The end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine... it takes time to detach that much, but if detaching isn't about preparing for D, then it seems you're trying to manipulate her? It's a co-D thing not be able to let go, and it sounds like you're still trying to control the outcome. Why does it matter to you how she views a D filing? She is probably counting on her ability to do what she wants while keeping you on a string. A D filing shows you're not putting up with that any longer.

Also, if you're trying to detach, absolutely be civil, but you'll have to drop the loving. That's not your relationship any more. Strictly business.


BS-Me 30s
WS-Him 30s
D-Day 4/2012 (Insisted EA only)
D-Day 5/2012 (Did I say EA? Ummm..)
Numerous other TT/broken NC d-days until S 1/2013. D settled 11/2013
MOW-coworker, 40s.
2 DS and DD all w/autism

Posts: 725 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: USA
tesla
Member
Member # 34697
Default  Posted: 9:20 PM, April 30th (Tuesday)

The point of separation is separation. You are separating from her, she is separating from you. You are both working on your issues. Great.
But...what if while she is working on her issues she decides she's done, she freaks out about not having the kids, decides to pick them up and go somewhere with them. (Because, you know, unremorseful wayward spouses are kinda unpredictable like that.) You have no legal protection in place.

YOu are being so careful of her feelings...of how she feels about the marriage...of getting her to feel something about the marriage. You are losing sight of a potnetially very important thing here...what are the children's best interests in this state of separation. I think you are remiss if you don't have something down in writing regarding your co-parenting arrangement. If you are separating, the issue needs to be addressed and it needs to be addressed in a way that is legally binding. If that means that you have to file, then do it because it is in the best interest of the kids. Fuck what's easiest and best for her.


"Thou art the son and heir of a mongrel bitch." --King Lear

Posts: 4541 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: Indiana
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 11:15 PM, April 30th (Tuesday)

Just curious, why no mention of NC with the OM during S? Will that be the final deal breaker?


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2540 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
karmahappens
Member
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 11:22 PM, April 30th (Tuesday)

Also, if you're trying to detach, absolutely be civil, but you'll have to drop the loving. That's not your relationship any more. Strictly business.

I agree. You can be polite to one another, no name calling etc etc...but loving? Just more confusion for the kids.


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaïs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3765 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
ProbableIceCream
Member
Member # 37468
Default  Posted: 11:31 PM, April 30th (Tuesday)

You can file without serving her (and you're generally given a certain amount of time to do it before they close the case), but the records are usually public, and she may receive mail from a lawyer offering a free consult or something like that, so I would not treat it as something secret.


Me: born 1982.
DD: born 2006 (I have abt 80% custody).
My D-Day was April 2012. Divorced Jul 2013.

Posts: 676 | Registered: Nov 2012
PanicAttack53
Member
Member # 34195
Default  Posted: 12:05 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)

I find myself becoming more and more indifferent to her "issues" and the BS overall. Not all the time. I still panic and cry, but the intervals are getting longer. I hope this is a good sign and I am on my path to detachment.

Gently AD, and I mean this with all due respect for your current situation... because I think you are a classic codependent, you need to take baby steps as you move though this process. For that reason alone, I believe your statement above is a *good* sign. The more "indifferent" you become to her "issues", the more you'll detach. For you, that may have to be done *one* issue at a time. Doesn't really matter bro. The *key* point is that you've begun to do it. Now the next *key* point will be to move onto the next issue and detach from it...then the next and so on. As long as you continue to stay the course and don't back slide that *is* progress my friend.

So... be strong and stay the course. You CAN do this AD!


Me-BH Her-XWW | B/ 60 | D final on 10/1/13 I'm Lovin' life again!
Rest of the story really doesn't matter any more.
“Realize deeply that the present moment is all you have.” ― Eckhart Tolle

Posts: 868 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: Midwest
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 6:20 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)

This still turns out to be a good deal for your wife and she will take full advantage of this. You put the marriage entirely on hold which frees her from any feelings of loyalty and guilt, then she is alone in this apartment; what do you imagine she is going to do? She will investigate and explore the full extent of her sexual needs and she still has a nice secure marriage to go back to. Of course, she could find a replacement for you during her sexual exploration....

If you finally get to the state of emotional detachment why would you allow yourself to fall in love again with this selfish woman?
Your whole approach to this dilemma is inconsistent. Either reconcile or divorce, not something in between.


Posts: 1689 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
standingonmarble
Member
Member # 31217
Default  Posted: 6:57 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)

Think of it this way Abbondad, There are 2 parts to being married, the emotional tie and the legal tie. By filing, you are dealing with the legal part, the financial part and protecting yourself and your kids from any future damage she could do in this state of mind she is in. As for the Emotional part of the marriage, well, it doesn't need the legal part to exist. It just does.

Protect yourself and your future and file, cover your ass legally while this plays out. Do it for your kids if for no other reason.


At one time he was a man standing on marbles. Now I am a woman standing on marble.....

We are done fighting with each other and decide to fight FOR each other.


Posts: 737 | Registered: Feb 2011
stretch13
Member
Member # 26894
Default  Posted: 7:19 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)

And if she does then that would sabotage the whole point of the separation, no? Specifically she'd freak and that would be it: end of separation, beginning of divorce.

no. you are missing a big point. that's not for you to control. if she's that weak, then she's not capable of R. that's the point. you can't "push her away" if she loves you and her kids and has the guts to do a damn thing about it. all you can do is stop enabling her and let her face the choices she has left...either show up walking a humble path of honesty, fidelity and authenticity for her kids and family or don't.

i get the NC thing and i think that is GREAT...surprising from you actually...and GREAT. it's hard though. it's easy to say, not to do. i'm hoping that you will enforce it and indeed begin to detach more and get a clearer view of where to go next.

the part where you still seem afraid to scare her away is a problem because she'll sense that and use it. i hope she takes this separation seriously, but it's so rarely the case until you are so detached you almost don't want it anymore, until they sense that your reluctance is stronger than their "spell."

in the year my XH and i had to be apart before D (state mandated), he still didn't get it. he was trying harder and being better to our DD than your WW in your situation, but he was still weak and self-serving, even in his guilt. so, like your WW, he promised, he cried, he wailed, he improved...some...i guess. but as soon as i filed my final papers, he sobered right up to the situation. that's when i saw the difference between him thinking i might leave him to understanding that i could and would.

so after 14 months of TT, warnings and S, he was still shocked when i told him on a friday that i'd be filing for final D on monday. SHOCKED that i would really go through with it. really? after 14 months of me holding his damn feet to the fire?

he turned his whole life around in a weekend, thinking, "oh shit, she did it...omg, what million things can i do in the next two days to change her mind?" by then there weren't any. by then i could see that there was nothing he could have done or would do that would make me want to R. the OC certainly affected my decision, but by then i'd also come to see that it was all just too broken, he was just too broken, that i might be okay with him as a father to my DD and as a "friend" but as a husband, he was pretty lousy.

you know what though? he tried, in right and serious ways, for months after our D was final, to see if he could make a dent in my resolve...to get another chance. i was impressed...but over it. it's easy to resent it when it comes too late.

i hope this shakes her awake, for your kids sake mostly. what i really think is important is for you to take some breaths, commit to keeping this distance from her during S...move further and further away from "affectionate" and watch what she does, viewing it all from a more detached place.

steel yourself, abbondad. so far she's been able to draw you back in with about 5 minutes of good behavior. i guarantee you she'll have you tempted in days or weeks.

abbondad, be certain and be clear...you need months...with her in counseling...big time. you need to see that even through NC she'll fight for your M. and she needs to prove that in some spectacular way, full of gestures small and great. she needs to tear her entire soul open, lay it bare, rebuild and nourish it for a long time ON HER OWN and leave all her excuses in a dumpster outside before she sets foot back into your kids' everyday lives. i don't think she's willing or capable of changing anything while you are around.

you need those weeks and months to work on codependent you also.
whatever you do from here, PLEASE don't let her move back in after a week or two weeks. she is going to destroy your children.

[This message edited by stretch13 at 7:24 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)]


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life must be rich and full of loving--it's no good otherwise, no good at all, for anyone - j. kerouac


Posts: 3929 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: east coast
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 7:37 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)

Hi, Everyone,

Been reading everyone's responses thoughtfully...

I have been up much of the night next to a wife alternately angry with me (partly my fault, rewriting the marriage) and scared I will leave her--but never remorseful, never apologetic, never expressing resolve to end contact with the AP.

My mind is screaming at me through my clutching emotions: divorce this woman. Divorce her. She will not change. Let go. Let go. It will be OK. You will survive.

So my simple question to this forum:

Help me allay my fears. If your situation mirrors mine in any way--specifically, if you loved your spouse (or thought you loved her/him) but just knew it wasn't going to work, yet feared intensely divorcing--what was your "happy ending?"

How/When did you realize that your fears were ultimately unjustified once you took the plunge?

Often I think that I am not fearful of divorcing HER or of DIVORCING, but of my emotional response TO the divorce. You know what I mean?

I have been a college professor for almost twenty years. I have lectured for thousands of hours.

But before I started teaching (never expecting that this would be my career), I was paralyzed by fear of public speaking: what would I do if I did not know the answer to a question? What would I do if I lost my train of thought? And on and on. And you know what? I didn't know the answer to many questions. And I have lost my train of thought. But it was OK. I survived. And I love my job and walk into my lectures with enthusiasm, and my students love me.

(Maybe not the most appropriate analogy, but it comes to mind with regard to overcoming fear.)

Some of you had some taglines that say something like "The greatest relief I felt was when I finally filed," and "I realized that I had nothing to fear, and I am actually happier..."

This is what I need to truly internalize. This is what is holding me back and keeping me in terrible limbo.

Thank you.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 8:08 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)

AD,

You will survive this. The question is what kind of person do you want your kids to see you being? This should help you answer a lot of your own questions it did me.

I put up w/ being treated like shit for months and months, being blamed for the stupidest things, being told constantly that I was a bad wife, and mother. (this was during his A)(and I WAS extremely CO-Dep in our relationship so this was crushing to me).
After Dday, and his breaking NC (one of my FIRM things for us to R) I was posting on here asking for help and advice on how to get through this, and I think it was Moo, or Defiance who said will allow yourself to be a doormat the rest of your life? Is that the kind of person you want your kids to be raised by? It finally clicked, and I was tired of being hurt.
Thats when it became easy for me to stick to my demands, and consequences. I knew if I D'd we would be freaking broke, and it would be very hard financially, but I also knew that I could be happy again, and that was soo much more important.
Thats when I found my strength, that's when the power switched to me. When that happened, I knew no matter what I was going to be ok.

Like you with teaching, you got through it. You know now that the only thing you had to fear was the unknown. Isn't this really the same?

She is clearly going to manipulate you as long as you allow it. Don't. It's that simple.

Have you seen an attorney? I can't remember. You seem to have fear of the unknown holding you back. Go find out the answers to your questions and concerns. Knowledge is Power, and you my friend have all the power in your hands, you just have to use it.

Stop the manipulation, cakeeating, confusing crap that she keeps shoving down your and your childrens throats.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 7790 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 8:39 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)

And if she does then that would sabotage the whole point of the separation, no? Specifically she'd freak and that would be it: end of separation, beginning of divorce.

Gently, the divorce process started when your W started her A. She emotionally DIVORCED herself from you. You have been playing catch up this entire time.

if you loved your spouse (or thought you loved her/him) but just knew it wasn't going to work, yet feared intensely divorcing--what was your "happy ending?"

I have one of those tag lines you referred too and I will respond. Before I get to the answer let me tell you what my problem was. I was SEVERELY CODEPENDANT, so much so that I left SI for a year because I didn't have the courage to do what everyone told me to do which is exactly what everyone is telling you to do. Brother I suffered for that year. It was pure hell before I finally cracked and came back here and started listening. The fear of my unknown future without my WW started to become less than the FEAR my life would ALWAYS be miserable with her. I was literally killing my soul a little each day and didn't have the courage to change my situation. I thougth my situation is similar to others on SI but slightly unique and in reality it wasn't. I took the long road to realizing that my M was over and my WW was unremorseful. She ahd even stopped the A but I spent all that time trying to "win" her back instead of focusing on me.

I read all the books and even lurked on the site reading on my own but it didn't sink in until I got some timely advice from the posters in the "I can relate Forum", Tired Girl gave me a timely 2X4 about what my WW was doing in a thread, and actually started reading the book Codependant No More. Like I believe you feel right now, in my head I knew my M was over but I still couldn't let go completely. It still took me 6 more months to file. Along the way I took baby steps and took back control of my life and that was Hell too. The last ah ha moment came when NJgal suggested I read the book "Love must be Tough". It clicked for me. After reading that I went back and reread "codependant No More" and it actually made sense to me this time. It made sense because I was reading it for my own healing this time and not as another tool or bullet to fire in the war I was waging to fix my wife and my M.

Back to your original question, my happy didn't end up being my WW deciding she wanted to come back. My path to happiness started when I decided that I and my kids were worth more than my WW and a broken M could ever give us. So I focused on myself and my kids and STOPPED worrying about my WW. I filed for D, technically got a S agreement since I am in a no fault state and you have to live apart for 1 year before a D can be finalized. It was a very tough decision but like my tag says the weight lifted from my shoulders because the burden of trying to fix my M was no longer mines to carry. I gave my STBXWW my conditions one last time and then went 180, NC, and detached from her ass while we are still living in the same house together. IN-house Seperation is it's own seperate monster but if I could do it with her in the house with me then Brother you can do it with you WW out of the house. Now I spend my time doing what I want with my kids and with the IC I actually worked through some issues I didn't even realize I had. So at some point in the future when I do meet someone else I won't fall back into my same codependant tendencies and in the meantime I am enjoying my life again for the first time in many years. My kids are the biggest beneficiary of this because all the energy I wasted on trying to fix my M gets focused on them now and that is what it's really about. So in summary my happy ending is getting out of a bad M and getting my life back. As a BS your WS's A is an instant "do-over card" for you. What you choose to do with it is completely up to you. Some R, some D, but the only way you find your happy ending is to actually take steps towards finding YOUR happy ending. It may not be what you think it is but is WILL be a happy ending for YOU, not your WW's happy ending, or your M happy ending, just YOUR happy ending. The rest will fall into place but you focus on the only thing you can control and that has and always will be YOU. Your happy ending is also your kids happy ending.

Maybe not what you wanted to hear but when you decide to get out of the hamster wheel and focus on you things work themselves out. It isn't easy but it's better than never ending torment that an unremoresful WS will continue to dump on you for as long as you let them.

If you truly are starting to detach evena little then build on each positive stpe. Yes you will make mistakes and get sucked back in at times but pick yourself up and start moving forward again. It seems hard at first but it gets easier and the clarity you get from detaching will amaze you.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
D hopefully official in 7/2014

Posts: 1810 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:51 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)

Thank you, 7yrs,

Always great advice from you. (I don't mean to slight anyone else's posts; they are all wonderful and appreciated.)

It's amazing that yes, whenever I find myself thinking, "Yeah, but MY situation, MY spouse is different," it turns out that it just ain't the case. Maybe in the details, but the narratives parallel in the most important ways.

Kind of weird, too. It's almost like a "syndrome."

Detachment is the key for me. And it just can't happen while she is in the home. So thankfully she is moving out.

I am bound and determined to do it right this time--one step at a time, one text at a time, one call at a time... Bite my tongue, control my thumbs, divert my thoughts.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 9:08 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)

Abbondad, I forgot to add that I don't regret the path I took to "waking up" and getting a point that I could file for D. The only thing I do regret is not doing it sooner.

I still say you should file while seperated but if you don't file then you need to spend this time apart working very hard on yourself and please do NOT let her back in the house until she has met all of your conditions for R for a considerable amount of time. (if you do detach you probably won't want her to come back) If they leave on their own and come back it will be HELL trying to get her out again. My WW offered to leave after DDay and I didn't take her up on it. That is why I am sitting here doing in house S until she moves out in 2 months. If they leave willingly you can take steps, depending on the state, to get sole posession of the marital home. I didn't do that and still have 2 more months to serve before I get "released" from in-house S. Also any debt she racks up while you are still married is technically 1/2 yours. Talk to your L and give yourself options.

In your situation the longer you wait to take control the more time you give her to do it first and screw you over.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 9:12 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
D hopefully official in 7/2014

Posts: 1810 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 9:11 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)

Oh, and in response to all the posts telling me to file, here is the reason I am not or at least reluctant at this time:

If we divorce, my wife and I agreed that we would do a Collaborative Divorce, not a litigated divorce. We do not want this to go through the courts and have a judge determine anything with regard to the children.

A collaborative divorce, if you are unfamiliar with it, is relatively inexpensive and very quick. My attorney is confident it can be done in five or six weeks, more or less. The point is we control it, not the attorneys and not the courts or judge. Ideally the collaborative process is not adversarial but is conducted with the children's best interests in mind.

Of course I anticipate your responses: my wife's actions do not indicate that she has our children's best interests in mind. She is implicitly if not explicitly adversarial, manipulative, etc. Yes and yes.

But I want to give the collaborative process a shot. We will still both be protected; each retains an attorney and thus we have legal advocates. A contract is drawn up at the first meeting that stipulates we will conduct this non-adversarially and will not take this to court.

The worst that can happen is that it falls apart, in which case we go the traditional litigated route, which again, we both want to avoid at all costs.

What do you think?


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 9:14 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)

The problem is that when you detach from your wife and she is alone in her apartment; temporarily free from any marriage constraints, she will date other guys. There is a large risk that she will become emotionally involved with one of them, afterall she can't keep away from her current OM.

This will make it impossible for her to achieve a state of remorse and a suitable attitude for true reconciliation. You cannot trust her to be mature and work on bettering herself during her isolation, which is what you would want her to do.

Don't be surprised if she's 'gone' when you decide its time to reunite the family. I only hope you don't give a damn when that moment arrives.


Posts: 1689 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
justabrokendream
Member
Member # 3075
Default  Posted: 9:30 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)

I told myself I wasn't going to post anymore on this subject. But I see a world of hurt for you and most of all your children. I see a trail of men in your WW life while you pine away waiting for her to "sort things out."

Drama will be the order of each day....

Now I'm really done.


Posts: 292 | Registered: Jan 2004 | From: CA
velveteer
Member
Member # 30997
Default  Posted: 9:40 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)

Hey Abbondad

You need some encouragement. You know my story, but it is indeed similar to yours. I didn't want to lose my wife and family. I was terrified of the future - terrified for my kids, terrified for myself, terrified about money, about the house and on and on and on.

I found SI two weeks after dday and had a very long thread. Like you I got all the advice - file, detach, 180, lines in the sand etc. For a while I just couldn't do it. My WW was different, my M was different, I wanted to do it my way - setting boundaries and never enforcing them.

She took the A underground. Continued to lie and treat me and the kids like shit.

Then I gritted my teeth and told her that was it - I was putting the house on the market and instructing a lawyer. I didn't invite any discussion about it - I just told her that was what was happening - that I couldn't tolerate three people in our M. I kicked her out of our bedroom.

I DID NOT WANT to do this. I really really didn't, but I felt I had no choice. She was shitting all over me and yet I was still scared of how she would react.

This hit her like a train and she backed down - 'finished it with OM' and 'came back to the M'. Well, except she didn't. She wallowed around in her own misery, pining for OM, getting angry with me and generally being an asshole to me and the kids yet again - rinse and repeat.

I had drawn a line in the sand and yet again I had backed down. I had let her back in on the strength of a few tears and words that turned out to be lies. I just didn't know it yet.

Then I caught her breaking NC again - not two weeks later. But this time I KNEW. This was done - finished. I wanted no more of it. My weakness in failing to stick to my boundaries that last time had done me in - I was just appalled at myself. But setting those wheels in motion had changed something in me. I didn't follow through that time, but I had at least fought so hard against my 'instinct' and wish to hold onto my M no matter the cost and it had toughened me up (even if I subsequently weakened). The last time she got busted I was ready.

So that was it - from dday to the decision to S was around four months. It felt like years. And then it was in-house S for another 3 months, which is a whole other story.

So - fear. I get it. I really do. But fear is just a feeling and sometimes you simply have to grit your teeth and push through that feeling.

The other thing I did was to use the time during all the hellish limbo and in-house S to detach and get on with my own shit. Sure I was still far too focussed on what she would do/ think/ feel etc, but that got less over time. I worked at it. Hard.

Happy ending - well, the day she left my house I felt better - MUCH better and right away. It was amazing. I had expected a much harder time with it, but it didn't really come. Sure I had lonely and sad moments, but I stood firm and kept my eyes on the future. That was happy ending number 1 - the toxic craziness was now at least at arms length.

Then I just started to move ahead without her and her importance continued to diminish in my life - I tentatively pushed forward our S deal and now that's all signed. Slowly, bit by bit, my life started to reform. I even met someone else to spend nice time with.

Now - legal S is done, I kept the house and I have been promoted at work. I have a lovely GF and life is good again.

I am no hero. I am not special. I made a whole load of mistakes, took wrong turns and said and did things I wish I hadn't. But I am making it through and that is because I reached a point where I knew that despite what I thought I wanted, I had to do something else. The sense of empowerment that comes from taking back control of yourself and your own life is invaluable.

You can do this. If I can, you can. You might feel like you are jumping without a net and maybe you are. But sometimes you do need to jump and just trust that the net will be there. What you project in your mind is always worse than reality.

Jump - the net will be there.

V


Divorced

Posts: 861 | Registered: Jan 2011
cayc
Member
Member # 21964
Default  Posted: 10:19 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)

If we divorce, my wife and I agreed that we would do a Collaborative Divorce, not a litigated divorce. We do not want this to go through the courts and have a judge determine anything with regard to the children.

Two things. She lies about her A's but is honest about this ^^^?

And, just so you know this is how all D's work. You only need to appear before a judge and let him/her decide anything for you if you can't agree on a property settlement.

So the real concern here is you being too nice and giving up things that you will regret long after the fact. That's what I did. In my haste to get away didn't go after anything financially and now that I no longer love xWH and in fact think he's the dirt beneath my feet, I wish I had pushed his back to the wall. That would have been better than what he deserved.

I'm one of the ones who regrets not getting a D sooner, once I realized that he was an emotionally abusive fucktard. Instead I hung on and lost 10 years of my life. A complete waste. Don't waste any more of your life on this. That's what's at stake here, your own life. Why keep giving it to someone who treats you so poorly? If a student came to you with a story similar to yours, would you tell them to do what you are doing?

D/S is a cataclysmic change whether you want it or not. So if you think you can lessen that pain by dragging this out, you can't. It's more akin to ripping off a bandage.

Ah, I"m rambling and not being very sympathetic to you this morning. The reason is yesterday I spent the day amongst a large group of people, and I was the only single one. And at my age, it was embarrassing to me. And if I had left my xWH 10 years ago? I would still be at an age to easily rebuild my life. And that's my fault b/c I lollygagged, made excuses, thought I loved a man who was abusive to me, and was too nice. Don't be me. Choose to move forward. Time is still moving forward regardless.


"The difference between involvement and commitment is like ham and eggs. The chicken is involved, the pig is committed." -Martina Navratilova
"The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me." -Ayn Rand

Posts: 2999 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Mexico
lieshurt
Member
Member # 14003
Default  Posted: 10:37 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)

Collaborative Divorce, between two mature, unselfish adults can be a great thing and I've known people who've successfully done this. None of them were cheaters though.

Collaborative Divorce to a WS typically means that you do everything they want, give them everything they want and basically kiss their ass throughout the whole process. Right now, I believe that's exactly what you will do. Let's not forget the cheaters who claimed they were working collaboratively, but were secretly plotting with their attorney and did a surprise attack on their bs.

You have an attorney so listen to them and be prepared for the worst.


I'm sorry if you don't like my Honesty, but to be fair I don't like your lies.

Sometimes it's better to push someone away...not because you stopped loving them but because you can't take the pain anymore.


Posts: 13646 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Houston
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 10:57 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)

My wife wants/wanted a mediated divorce if we do it, but I insisted on collaborative.

Amazingly she conceded.

I do not trust my wife, and mediated demands way too much trust (as well as legal knowledge from the parties). The mediator advocates for neither. I want the protection, advocacy and advice of an attorney through the process.

So I feel comfortable with collaborative, and again, if it falls apart then we will just litigate. I hope we can avoid that at all cost.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
stretch13
Member
Member # 26894
Default  Posted: 11:05 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)

1) Set the terms of your collaborative divorce now and just don't file the petition or agreement with the state. even if she can fight it later, it would be good to have it, just for reference and to prove that she at one time did agree (no he said, she said.)

2) Decide that you are going to be a man who demands to be treated right...not for you..but because your kids need to know that some people are secure and strong and won't take abuse. they need to know that you won't take abuse, because they want to know that you can and will be there to protect them from it too. don't let them think they need to protect you!

show your kids what a man looks really looks like and what he will sacrifice to protect them...even if it's from their own mother.

3) I'd bet dollars to donuts that even though you will miss her terribly and be tempted a lot, your first feelings will be of relief. most of us codependents will feel it right away. the absence of that sucking funnel of negative, needy energy will make you feel noticeably lighter.

suddenly the house will belong to the energy of you and your kids. when you are home you will be comforted that you don't have to see or talk to your trigger. you won't dread coming home. you won't have to wonder if the words you hear are lies. you won't have to worry about or try to comfort someone whose pain is totally self-inflicted, selfish and absolutely disrespectful to the pain she's caused you and your family. you won't have to wonder if she just snuck off to contact OM.

you won't have to clean up her messes or listen to her excuses or to her pine for her OM. you will enjoy your kids more. you will have time FOR YOU. you will breathe more easily.

the rollercoaster will still be there, and you will have doubts for sure...but hold on to the glimpses of relief and peace. they are what is real. chaos is only a mask, made from your sham of a marriage, covering all the wonderful peace and love abbondad was meant to share with this world.

happy endings?

i found myself hanging over a cliff, terrified of letting go...deciding which torment was worse, staying married or D? it was like the psychological equivalent of someone deciding to jump from a tall building to escape a fire. which way did i want to go, how would i decide to perish...and was there any chance could i survive either of them?

turns out, when i closed my eyes and let go, the ground was right there. i guess the branch i was hanging from stretched and drooped over that cliff until, without realizing it, i was just a few feet from a decent landing. if that branch was detachment or just drooping from the weight of our dysfunction i don't know, but it wasn't anything like the fall into the abyss i was anticipating.

i'm 3.5 years past DDay, and my life is freakin' magically delicious. my daughter is a happier kid than she could have ever been with both us. i know i made the right choice because my anger still pops out now and then if he pushes me regarding DD. i know i made the right choice because even though he is improved, his baseline of selfishness, incompetence and oblivion would have made me crazier and crazier. i can see now many of the dynamics that, though not directly related to the A, were unhealthy.

i was freaking out about whether i could handle our house, the kid, the dog, the cats, the laundry, the loneliness, starting over, the lack of trust in everyone...basically my whole life. i'd always considered him to be helpful, even though so many messes were his projects unfinished. my BFF told me that knowing me and knowing him, i'd be fine...because she could see if i couldn't, just how exhausting and impossible life was because of his chaos.

she was right. taking care of just me, my kid, my pets and my life was SO much easier and more peaceful. it was hard...but it was definitely better. the more distance i got, the less head space i gave him.

i made a new life for DD and i. i started chasing my real dreams. before XH i'd had a rich life alone, moving on my own to new cities, seizing opportunities, loving my solitude and my social life. now, post M, A and childbearing, i'd found courage and strength i had no idea was there.

a few months after my D was final, i wasn't dating and closed my heart to it altogether. i was focused on me, working with a mentor, starting a business in addition to my fulltime job. i started writing and reading again. then sooner than i even wanted, i accidentally got close to someone who had also been a BS. i'd known him as acquaintance for several years but had little interaction. we'd never exchanged so much as an email or more than a hallway joke with others at work. when we started joking about never dating seriously again, we got some chemistry going. still, neither one of us wanted anything but fun. i never wanted to even try to trust another guy, especially with DD around. when the time came for me to try a little, i was wary, but it all just flowed so naturally.

we were married in december.

i don't recommend that time table for people. it's not a solution nor should it be a focus. it's almost always a mistake. i don't even pretend that i'm any different than other people who do it as a mistake. i'm just going with what is beautiful for my daughter and i. i decided i felt strong enough to choose the risk.

i still have sorrow, but i wouldn't go back to that life for a million bucks.

you'll be ok. you'll be better than you think.


(((abbondad)))

[This message edited by stretch13 at 11:10 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)]


http://www.facebook.com/hardheadpress
http://www.amazon.com/Eli-Ely-Ezekiel-Tyrus/dp/0986042900/

http://hardheadpress.com/

life must be rich and full of loving--it's no good otherwise, no good at all, for anyone - j. kerouac


Posts: 3929 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: east coast
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 11:26 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)

From my understanding of collaborative divorce, there is one HUGE pitfall. If the *collaboration* breaks down, you basically have to start all over.....with a NEW lawyer.

The regular, mediated D process will only be as adversarial as the two of you make it. Sultan is a humongous pain in my ass, but we were able to sit down with a mediator and hammer out the custody agreement.

The only way that a judge will decide ANYTHING for you is if the two of you can't come to an agreement on your own.

We have just started the financial mediation process and Sultan is not so *agreeable* on this front.....so THAT is most likely to have to go in front of a judge--if he ever turns over all of his financial info, that is...


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7683 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
ProbableIceCream
Member
Member # 37468
Default  Posted: 11:30 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)

If you file, that doesn't stop you from doing a collaborative divorce. You have to file during a collaborative divorce anyway. If you file pro se, you're not retaining an attorney. I don't see the problem with filing now. You can drop it and refile later. You can use the existing filing as a basis for the collaborative divorce. You can even get remarried later if you want. You're exposing yourself to a LOT of risk because you don't want to upset her.

EDIT: Accidentally a word.

[This message edited by ProbableIceCream at 12:07 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)]


Me: born 1982.
DD: born 2006 (I have abt 80% custody).
My D-Day was April 2012. Divorced Jul 2013.

Posts: 676 | Registered: Nov 2012
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 11:31 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)

lieshurt brings a pretty potent argument to the game. I'm specifically referring to the texts between WW and her sister. Believe me, she's planning something.

On a positive note though, the longer she is out of the marital home and you are actively working on detaching, the better for you. If that begins to become an issue, remember the promise she made your son. IDK how she was able to tell him of the separation and retain any semblance of humanity in your eyes. Granted, you are only her H, but he is her flesh and blood.

Also, from the legal side the longer she is gone, the better chance you will have to get primary custody. After all, if she had any concerns with you as a parent, she would never leave. Another argument for not allowing her back. However, until D is filed she can waltz back in at any time. As part of the filing, include the text about her needing to leave so she can grow, she needs to stay out.

I was severely codependent in my first M. Getting a D was the BEST thing that I had ever done. Unfortunately, I didn't resolve those issues and continued to make bad choices in my selection of SO's. My choices led me into 2 more LTR's that both involved infidelity on their part. Hopefully, my second marriage is salvageable. SI hasn't led me wrong yet.

Guess what I'm saying is work on fixing you. If R is in the cards, it's on her. S or D won't matter, she'll take those steps.

Proceed at your own pace brother. We'll be here for you!

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2540 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 11:57 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)

Still reading....

BTW, do you know why I have so much time to devote to this site? Because I am not working; I took the semester off. I am using most of my accrued sick leave that was supposed to be for my (our) retirement to deal with the emotional toll this has taken on me.

Something that I have really been thinking about. Not the money per se, but the fact itself.

What I wanted to say in this post: among the (hundred or so by now?) posts by all of you, the ones that have really set up shop in my brain is this: I am afraid of being alone and abandoned.

Your consistent, insistent response?

I am already alone. I already have been abandoned. I already feel this and have for so long. How much worse could it be without her? At least I will have a future without this terrible uncertainty.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 12:07 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

I am already alone. I already have been abandoned. I already feel this and have for so long. How much worse could it be without her? At least I will have a future without this terrible uncertainty.

This. Please, please turn this around. How much better could it be without her and the deliberate cruelty? Life without the daily uncertainty? Watching your kids go through this deliberate shitstorm?

Again, it ends when you say it does. No sooner, no later.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2540 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
jagged
Member
Member # 32317
Default  Posted: 12:12 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

At least I will have a future without this terrible uncertainty.

^^ This. THIS!

Occasionally, I still have dreams in which I am married to WXW, or at least still involved with her - dealing with her. They're awful dreams. And then I get to wake up and realize that no, all that uncertainty, all that horrible, sickening doubt and fear are all gone. Forever.

For me, it was more than a fair trade for all the bullshit associated with the D itself.

Also, as someone who went through a mediated D, I strongly echo gonnabe's comments (she's pretty smart). We had a good mediator that got us through a few rough patches, and if both parties can make it work, its far, far better. WXW and I both retained our own attorneys to review the draft mediated decree and make comments, but we called the shots.

If it doesn't work, you're out the cost of a mediator, but you probably walk away with a draft decree that is 90% complete (which isn't to say that new attorneys won't insist you start from square one with them, but that's your decison).


One foot in and one foot back
But it don't pay to live like that
So I cut the ties and I jumped the tracks
For never to return

Posts: 328 | Registered: May 2011 | From: TX
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 12:37 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

You have talked about separation followed by the possibility of reconciliation after your wife has spent a period of time alone, [read-had some exciting affairs].
If she can talk about what type of divorce you both should be adopting, then isn't she already emotionally gone? Planning a future without you and negotiating what to do about the kids.

Whats the point of this separation with no filing? Are you hoping that after your wife has become bored with other affairs, she may come back to you and the marriage?

I think you either file or decide to work on the marriage now before the opportunity is lost. If your wife lacks shame and remorse and you don't think she will work to rebuild your relationship then mercifully end it before things get worse. Choose what path to take and stay out of limbo land.

Don't prevaricate; start the long journey to a better life now and don't look back at the fire consuming your marriage. You are throwing buckets of water on the flames and WW stands idly by, doing nothing.


Posts: 1689 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
sef85843
New Member
Member # 13099
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

Hey there...

I don't post that much but your story struck a chord.

There's no doubt my divorce took an emotional tool. My ex moved out a year ago this month...our divorce was final last July. We did a collaborative divorce and were able to get everything straightened out in 4 weeks. From the day he moved out to the day our divorce was final took all of 7 1/2 weeks. Then again, we didn't have kids and I gave him custody of our beloved dog (I ended up adopting another dog a week after the divorce was final...she's the best pup on the planet!)and most of the furniture was mine anyway so all and all it was prety easy from a pragmatic point of view.

From an emotional one, it was heart-wrenching, nerve-wracking and just a horrible experience. I don't want to make it out to be any better because it's not. But I know you have the internal strength to get through it and I applaud the two of you for trying to do it collaboratively as that's a super quick way to get through what can take forever.

I'm the one that cheated and I'm the one that regret it to this day. I made my bed, I lie in it every day and I miss him more than words can express. He didn't want counseling, he didn't want to be in the same room with me. As soon as he found out, we were over and there was no looking back. I moved into the basement and he moved out a month later. I spent the last year in intense therapy and pretty much living like a hermit to figure out why I destroyed the best thing that ever happened to me. It sucked...there were times I wanted to punch my therapist in the face. There were times I wanted to punch myself in the face but looking back a year later I have so much clarity and understanding about me, my relationships and just the human condition in general. No doubt about it, I had a pretty fucked up life but I've finally put some old demons to rest and found out what it means to truly love someone unconditionally...and on the flip side what it means to BE loved the same way.

Abandondad...I know our stories are different but I SO feel how you feel right now. Even though we're not together, we still talk, we still have feelings for each other but there's also a wound that hasn't healed and it's a wound I created. It's something I have to live with for the rest of my life. But I keep moving on, keep living my life to its fullest extent because you know what? Life is short, life is so very precious and time is by far our most precious commodity. The time we spend thinking about stuff like this versus the time we spend doing things much more worthwhile makes use of the short time we have to do the things we want to do.

You two might end up back together. Hell, my ex and I are divorced but thinking about getting back together and doing the work as a couple to get over my infidelity and tackle the issues in our marriage. There's a chance...and I don't want to let go of that. But we went through the whole process of splitting up and we are no longer a "we"...but the connection is still there and we still talk to each other because we both know each other better than anyone else on Earth. So don't look at divorce as the end all be all...it's not as finite as you think. It's like the old philosophical question of pre-determination vs. free will. I believe there's a little bit of both...but never say never.

((HUGS))


Wheel in the sky keeps on turning...don't know where I'll be tomorrow. - Journey

Posts: 36 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: Ann Arbor
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 1:27 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

Hello my friends,

I just called my wife and asked three questions:

1) are you still in contact with him?
Yes.
2) do you plan on seeing him while we are separated?
I would consider not seeing him
3) are you in love with him?
Silence, followed by some blather about having certain needs met, not like love she has for me.. I tuned her out.

I apologized for flip flopping on my agreeing to another separation and sent her the names of two collaborative attorneys whom my attorney has worked with successfully before.

Please send me strength to carry through with this.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 1:39 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

Strength

Mojo

Prayers

ETA "I tuned her out." Excellent response.

[This message edited by 5454real at 1:45 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)]


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2540 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
standingonmarble
Member
Member # 31217
Default  Posted: 1:44 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

No contact mean no new hurts.

Contact her again and she will hurt you again. You are not a punching bag so stop being one.

mathematically speaking the odds are in your favor that you would find another to love you


At one time he was a man standing on marbles. Now I am a woman standing on marble.....

We are done fighting with each other and decide to fight FOR each other.


Posts: 737 | Registered: Feb 2011
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 1:59 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

Keep moving forward and control what you can control which is your actions. You will be fine.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
D hopefully official in 7/2014

Posts: 1810 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 2:34 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

I would consider not seeing him

That means I will see him but you won't find out
are you in love with him?
Silence, followed by some blather about having certain needs met

Thats a hurtful and tactless statement that she loves you spiritually, whatever that means, but needs the OM for sexual satisfaction.

Consider the following. File for divorce and tell your WW that unless she develops some intense remorse pretty soon, the marriage is finished. Right now she believes she can have her cake and eat it; she knows you will take her back because you need her so much and have a terrible fear of abandonment. If you can get her to realize that this is not true and you WILL file and terminate the marriage if you separate, then maybe you can jolt her back into reality. The core of your problem is your wife thinking you will not leave her, or divorce, because you are weak and needy. You have reinforced this attitude by refusing to file.

However, its hard to envisage a successful reconciliation with a woman who needs other men to satisfy certain needs and has the nerve to tell you.


Posts: 1689 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
nowiknow23
Guide
Member # 33226
Default  Posted: 4:12 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

(((((Abbondad))))) Sending you all kinds of strength. This part sucks out loud, but you WILL get through it. And when you're on the other side of it? The sun shines far brighter than you can imagine.


You can call me NIK

Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.
- Plato


Posts: 24393 | Registered: Aug 2011
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 5:44 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

Just spoke to the wife on her way home. She is surprisingly calm for her and just had questions about how to tell the kids, when, the process of collaborative divorce... No crazy behavior. (Yet I hope.).

Asked if I was sure. I said I am. Asked if I will change my mind. I assured her I won't.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
Weatherly
Member
Member # 18222
Default  Posted: 6:21 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

Help me allay my fears. If your situation mirrors mine in any way--specifically, if you loved your spouse (or thought you loved her/him) but just knew it wasn't going to work, yet feared intensely divorcing--what was your "happy ending?"

How/When did you realize that your fears were ultimately unjustified once you took the plunge?

I thought I loved my ex. I was pretty sure my world would fall apart without him. I remember many threads telling me to just leave. That he wasn't changing. He wasn't going to. So, I tried harder...unfortunately, I couldn't try hard enough to make him happy. Because I was never the problem.

I stayed far too long, and my kids saw far too much. I finally kicked him out, and felt relieved. I was home alone, with a 2 yr old and 4 yr old, in the beginning of winter, with no heat, no income, and no idea of what I was going to do, but, I was finally feeling ok. After a couple years of feeling horrible with the man I "couldn't live without", I felt pretty good without him.

That isn't to say I always felt great, or that I didn't ever wonder if I made the right choice. There were nights I cried myself to sleep. But, there were plenty of those when he was telling me he loved me too. And, at least now, I could get my feet under me, maybe there wasn't much there to stand on, but, I could see that and knew how to fix it. There was no longer someone standing there, spinning me in circles then pulling the rug out from under me.

I didn't know my fears were unjustified until I finally decided I didn't care anymore. Until I decided to take a leap of faith on myself rather than another failed leap of faith for him.

My happy ending includes two children who seem happy and well adjusted. My own college graduation next weekend. The ability to relax. A peaceful home. The confidence to know, that I was able to fix my life, just not him. Eventually, it did include a new husband.

But, it also included having to see my ex husband almost every other weekend. And, see, that is never was me. He claimed the affairs were my fault, the abuse was my fault, the kids crying and hiding while he screamed at me was my fault. So, getting rid of me should have made his life perfect, right? Except, it didn't. When he was with me, he had a 3 bedroom house on a couple acres, a couple cars, a decent job, a loving wife and two little boys who adored him.
Now? (and since we split) he has had a dozen jobs and girlfriends, never had another house, at best, he had one bedroom apartments by railroad tracks. Crappy jobs. I couldn't see HE was the problem, until HE was the only one left to blame. Now, I can't for the life of me remember what I loved about him in the first place.

I think you will be pleasantly surprised with how calm your life feels when she is out of your house, how relieved you feel when you accept that you don't have to worry about who she is with anymore. It could happen immediately, but, it probably won't. But, it will happen.


Me-29,Two boys, 10 and 8

It will all be ok in the end. If it's not ok, it's not the end

Happily remarried to a wonderful man (Aussie). I think I found the right guy and the right finger this time.


Posts: 4473 | Registered: Feb 2008 | From: Indiana
jagged
Member
Member # 32317
Default  Posted: 7:08 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

Wishing you strength and speedy peace with this.

And this means absolutely nothing now (and may even seem insensitive and tactless from where you are right now), but you aren't being abandoned. You're being FREED. Freed to live your life and to be loved how you deserved to be loved, by someone BETTER than her.

Stay strong. It gets better.


One foot in and one foot back
But it don't pay to live like that
So I cut the ties and I jumped the tracks
For never to return

Posts: 328 | Registered: May 2011 | From: TX
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 7:30 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

So strange... WW came home, all seems normal. Playing with the kids... She is the same as always. Then it subtly begins:

Come here, please.

I sit next to her.

I just want to tell you I don't like this change of events.

I say nothing.

I am not going to change my last name, she says.

Why not? I ask.

Because I still have hope for us, she says.

I say nothing.

(She does not like this.)

She leafs through a self-help book I just purchased. Looks at the title.

Helps you with depression, anxiety, and intimacy? Intimacy? Intimacy with who? She demands.

I say nothing.

I predict some rapidly changing reactions in the days to come: anger, bargaining, etc. Believe me, they will fall on deaf ears. But the one thing I will not hear--what I have literally NEVER heard from her mouth--is "I am sorry."

Oh, she also drew a pretty picture of our family home with our last name on the door.

Pretty pictures, pretty words.

Not nearly enough.

I probably will shatter at a later time, but right now I must say I am not feeling as awful as I thought I would. I feel strength. Control. Self respect.

I think she is in shock.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
karmahappens
Member
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 7:47 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

Stand strong AD...she is expecting you to cave like you have in the past.

DO NOT CAVE

Hold on and be strong ((((hugs))))


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaïs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3765 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
ProbableIceCream
Member
Member # 37468
Default  Posted: 7:52 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

That's straight up emotional abuse there.


Me: born 1982.
DD: born 2006 (I have abt 80% custody).
My D-Day was April 2012. Divorced Jul 2013.

Posts: 676 | Registered: Nov 2012
AppleBlossom
Member
Member # 38541
Default  Posted: 11:13 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

I am sorry, AD, but your wife seems like a person that is not healthy for you to be around.

NC in your case would mean no more discussions about the state of your relationship, and certainly not you sitting by while she makes commments about your reading material and drawing pretty pictures for you. I am sorry, but that draws quite a sinister picture.

I wish you much strength and clarity.


Posts: 154 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Australia
PanicAttack53
Member
Member # 34195
Default  Posted: 12:40 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Helps you with depression, anxiety, and intimacy? Intimacy? Intimacy with who? She demands.

Oh lord, that's rich AD! Standard WS head up their ass silliness. I'm so glad you're finally beginning to see her for what/who she really is. Keep it up bro... you're doing great!

[This message edited by PanicAttack53 at 12:41 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)]


Me-BH Her-XWW | B/ 60 | D final on 10/1/13 I'm Lovin' life again!
Rest of the story really doesn't matter any more.
“Realize deeply that the present moment is all you have.” ― Eckhart Tolle

Posts: 868 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: Midwest
Jrazz
Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 12:45 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

I feel strength. Control. Self respect.

Super proud of you, AD. Thank you for sharing your journey with us... I hope you can feel the support we're all sending.


We are what we repeatedly do, excellence, then is not an act but a habit. - Aristotle

Posts: 16323 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 12:57 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

I predict some rapidly changing reactions in the days to come: anger, bargaining, etc. Believe me, they will fall on deaf ears.

Beware also the soft words designed to obfuscate. Anything to keep you off balance and allow her to remain dominant.

But the one thing I will not hear--what I have literally NEVER heard from her mouth--is "I am sorry."

I hope you are right that she doesn't use them, but when she gets desperate enough, don't you think she will even resort to that? Please remember, actions, not words.

I feel strength. Control. Self respect.

How incredibly awesome. Hold onto those throughout the coming storm.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2540 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
velveteer
Member
Member # 30997
Default  Posted: 4:01 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Good job Abbondad - keep it up.


Divorced

Posts: 861 | Registered: Jan 2011
crazynot
Member
Member # 24572
Default  Posted: 4:27 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Hello Abbondad,

I've posted before in response to your threads, and have probably come across as a harsh, unfeeling harridan. So I wouldn't be at all surprised if you didn't want to take my advice. However, your recent posts in this thread remind me of why I have responded to you so strongly - because you remind me SO much of how I was when my husband started cheating. I totally, utterly identify with your searingly honest admission that you're frightened of that empty, abandoned feeling after you divorce. That was my fear too. I felt that my union with my husband was one of true soulmates... we'd shared so much together, even once had the same dream at the same time. I thought that turning my back on that relationship would probably kill me.

You ask what was the point where it became ok? I can answer that exactly. On March 19 2010, a year to the day since his 'revelation' that he was 'seeing someone else' and our 'marriage was over', and three months after he moved out. I was walking in the woods with my dogs, and the feeling of rage and horror became so overwhelming - as it had before - that I fell to the ground screaming at the top of my voice. I was in a very remote spot and knew I would not be heard. After I'd finished screaming, I got up and actually felt the love - and the fear - leave me. I KNEW that I'd never feel them again. And I haven't. And best of all, within three months I'd met, quite by chance, someone who made me forget all about the feelings I'd had for 28 YEARS with my husband. Sure, some would say too early, and while we're still close it's not a full-time, committed relationship, but I understood completely the phrase 'moving on'.

And by the way, I was 48 years old and at least 40 pounds overweight - I'm quite intelligent and attractive, but by no means a bimbo.

Everyone will tell you it's not about your next relationship, and definitely the advice would be to heal yourself for at least a year before thinking about 'dating'. However, it's pointless anyone pretending that they don't crave the comfort of having someone who's 'there' for them... there are many dark nights.

Life is rich and amazing on the other side of the pain you're in now, I can promise you that. There will be times of aching loneliness and doubt, but also revelations of excitement, passion and joy. The feeling of NOT being treated badly by someone you love is something to value.

I know you're co-dependent, the truth is so am I, and it's a shackle I'm still trying to get free of because it ruins things with other people. That's my truth, however much I try and sound like I'm made of steel now I'm free of adultery.

I massively respect and admire the courage and openness you are showing in this struggle, and wish you peace of mind and happiness.


Me - 50
Him - 51
DDay 21 March 2009
Divorcing and delighted!

Do you want me to tell you something really subversive? Love is everything it's cracked up to be. That's why people are so cynical about it.


Posts: 839 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: UK
SBB
Member
Member # 35229
Default  Posted: 5:39 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

This is a change of tactic friend. In case you get to thinking she is 'getting it'. The only thing she is getting is more desperate.

I agree with a PP, this is straight up emotional abuse.

Brace yourself friend - you won't believe the bucketfuls of crazy and erratic behaviour coming your way the stronger you get.

She is a parasite who has been getting nice and fat sucking on your blood. She doesn't want to let go of such a willing host. It will take her a while to show her true face but trust me, you will see it again.

Un-be-lievable.


Buzz- The word you are searching for is 'Space-Ranger.'
Woody- The word I'm searching for, I can't say, because there are Pre-school toys here.

Posts: 5399 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Australia
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 7:51 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Understand what your wife wants out of this situation.
1] To remain a professors wife with the social respect that entails.
2] Maintain a home for the children and provide the stability of a family.
3] To be free to pursue relationships with other men to provide excitement and sexual satisfaction. Preferably with you turning a blind eye and not creating a crisis about it.

The problem is item number 3. I suspect it is non-negotiable from her perspective, which is why you are in this mess. She sounds like a control freak who is determined to have her own way and that includes sex with OM. Doesn't leave you with many choices if you don't want to be a cuckold.

I agree with others. Living with this dominating woman is not good for you and you need to start pulling away.


Posts: 1689 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:26 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

BTW, I honestly believe it is not about sex. We always had an awesome sex life--even throughout the affair. She is just totally enmeshed emotionally with him. (That is not to say that sex is an unimportant part of the relationship. I am quite sure it is incredibly important to him. And once he gets ALL of her to himself he will bail big time.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 8:45 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

but right now I must say I am not feeling as awful as I thought I would. I feel strength. Control. Self respect.

Stay strong keep moving forward and don't look back. You move forward and if she chooses to try to catch up then she must do the work herself without you holding her hand. You keep movign forward and becoming a better person for you and your children. Put the pressure on her for a change.

NC = No New Hurts...expect the crazy train to try and make multiple stops on a frequent basis now. Just know it's coming and avoid contact with her unles absolutely necessary for kids or finances. She is going to pull out every trick she has to try to get you back in line. If you can avoid those then the anger and venom will be next. Just know it's coming and keep focusing on you and your kids and you will be fine. The more you interact with her the more chances she has to break you down.


Also even if you shatter later it's okay you are and will remain on the roller coaster for awhile but keep moving forward for you. There is no shame in crying or being upset over what you lost. You will mourn the loss of your M and that is normal as well but work through that and focus as best you can on you and your kids.

You gave her your conditions so no more looking back and no more cake eating. Yes it's scary but it gets better man it really does.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
D hopefully official in 7/2014

Posts: 1810 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
Amazonia
Member
Member # 32810
Default  Posted: 8:46 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

I've never read your threads before, but just from this one, I get chills up my spine from reading about your wife. What an evil, manipulative sounding woman.


"You yourself deserve your love and affection as much as anybody in the universe." -Buddha
"Let's face it, life is a crap shoot." -Sad in AZ

Posts: 13554 | Registered: Jul 2011
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 8:50 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

She is just totally enmeshed emotionally with him. (That is not to say that sex is an unimportant part of the relationship. I am quite sure it is incredibly important to him. And once he gets ALL of her to himself he will bail big time.
STay focused on you. This is still you focusing on her and her situation. Even if he bails and she comes running back she still will NOT have fixed her issues so she is still not safe and that is the main reason so many people have multiple DDays in their tags. The WS never fixes what is broken within them so the hurts keep coming.

If their relationshp works or implodes it's irrelevant now. The more you focus on that the longer it will take for you to heal. Remember focus on your healing and resolving your issues. Get your mind off WW and get out that list of things to do for you and your kids and get to work on making some awesome memories for you and your kids. Detachment should be a big goal. It will help with you to deal with the crazy train when it pulls in.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 8:51 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
D hopefully official in 7/2014

Posts: 1810 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 9:46 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

I understand, 7yrs. I was just addressing OKnow's point #3.
:-)


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 10:30 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Hey AD, can you feel the power shifting? Your last described exchange w/ WW? You are managing yourself. Good for you. Doesn't it feel great to know that you no longer have to deal w/ her crazymaking behavior?

Continue to not engage her. If she wants to "talk" ask her what about, if it's anything other than the finances and kids, then defer it. This gives you oh so much more control.

When is she leaving the home, and going to her own place? You have referred to it several times, but no timeline. I would encourage you to hasten this.

Get your kids lined up for some counceling they will benefit from it, and sit them down, and say we have tried to make this work, but sometimes people just cannot do that. Nothing to put her in a bad light. They will figure out the why's on their own soon enough. Be prepared to honestly answer questions when they do ask them, and above all tell them everyday that it had absolutely nothing to do with them. Many many kids question themselves, and often think that they could save things if only....(hollywood of course contributes to this w/ movies like Mrs Doubtfire and the Parent trap).

The constant anxiety will improve when she is no longer living with you. You will be free to do what you want, how you want, when you want.

((((and strength))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 7790 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
courageous
Member
Member # 34477
Default  Posted: 10:38 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

I just feel this needs to be said because I feel your wife is getting completely bad mouthed. She is a sex abuse survivor. She is not vile.

She was just doing what you told her to do. She had sex with other men because as you stated she can't say no to people she loved and you asked her to do it. Also you role played sex with her as you being the same "father" figure as the man who abused her. I hope you recognize that role playing that way is very traumatizing and you should have shut it down immediately.

I don't condone cheating. I also don't condone manipulation by the people who are suppose to love us the most. Right now you are not a safe person for her.... No one is. I really hope the both of you get counseling.


Me: BW (35)
Him: ExWH (31) EA/PA with MOW coworker
Married 9 years, 2 small kids
dday 3/12/2011 divorced fall 2012

My ipad does a lot of crazy typos.


Posts: 616 | Registered: Jan 2012
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 11:26 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

I'm sorry courageous, but I have been over this before. I have accepted responsibility for initiating sex with other men. I have demonstrated and expressed to her for over two years my remorse.

And this is largely why I have stuck it out through her lies and betrayal for two years. I am deeply remorseful.

But I never "told her" to do this. She agreed enthusiastically and we agreed on the "rules." She broke them again and again, even when, sobbing, I pleaded with her to stop--that she was hurting me and our children.

I do not have a degree in the psychology of adult survivors of child sexual abuse. I never dreamed it could result in this.

However, she is 41 years old. She is not helpless in the clutches of this. Her responsibility must begin somewhere. I would say a good place to start is when you see your children and husband crying as you leave them and continue to walk away.

And I never called her "vile."

But as my mother always said,'"there is a fine line between mental illness and plain selfishness."


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
roughroadahead
Member
Member # 36060
Default  Posted: 11:59 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Oh boy. Have you looked into IC for yourself?


BS-Me 30s
WS-Him 30s
D-Day 4/2012 (Insisted EA only)
D-Day 5/2012 (Did I say EA? Ummm..)
Numerous other TT/broken NC d-days until S 1/2013. D settled 11/2013
MOW-coworker, 40s.
2 DS and DD all w/autism

Posts: 725 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: USA
courageous
Member
Member # 34477
Default  Posted: 1:20 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

I know you didn't say she was vile but someone replying to your post did.

I know you regret the suggestion about sleeping with other men but I don't think some people who have replied knew.

I guess because of my past abuse I sympathize with what your wife is going through and I recognize some of things she is doing as a reaction to abuse. I wish both of you well.


Me: BW (35)
Him: ExWH (31) EA/PA with MOW coworker
Married 9 years, 2 small kids
dday 3/12/2011 divorced fall 2012

My ipad does a lot of crazy typos.


Posts: 616 | Registered: Jan 2012
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 2:09 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Very upsetting incident: heard my nine year old sobbing in his room. (My wife is at work and he'd just come home from school.).

Asked him what's wrong.

"I don't know, lots of things."

"Tell me what thoughts you are thinking."

"I don't know."

"Ok, you tell me when you're ready."

He comes out a few minutes later and I ask him what that was all about.

He says: "I'm just really worried about you and mommys relationship."

All I was able to say is that everything is going to be OK.

We are not going to tell the kids for at least a few days more, not until a day or two before my wife moves out.

I can't believe how perceptive he is. I am unaware of any change in the way we have been around the kids lately. Unless: this morning as we were leaving for school he said, "Now go hug mommy goodbye." I didn't and brushed it off jokingly.

Could it have been something as seemingly trivial as that?

Any thoughts/advice? On this but more importantly how to ultimately tell the kids? How did you handle it? How did they?


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 2:33 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Honestly? Your DS has seen and heard enough. He came to you with his concerns,looking for answers. And you lied to him. He deserves the truth. Details? No. but he deserves..and needs the truth.


BS(me)41
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,9
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Happily Reconciled.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7116 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 2:37 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

But confused, I can't just tell him on my own. My wife and I have to talk to him about it together. We have to co parent. I don't want him hating her, which could happen if its just me telling him. We all have to sit down together when the time comes.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 2:54 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

I get that. But he came to you asking for the truth,and walked away knowing he didn't get it.

You need to fix this. With your DS. He needs one parent he can trust.

I totally get why you lied...I do...really. But you need to talk with your son..now.


BS(me)41
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,9
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Happily Reconciled.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7116 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 2:57 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Why wait? This is an event that will affect him for life. Are you trying to protect her? He's scared and confused, looking to you for answers. He knows something is up and probably suspects that she is leaving again.(Remember her promise to him?)

Wouldn't the two of you explaining this to him together be an easier transition rather than her just disappearing? Given her behaviors, I wouldn't put it past her to tell him you made her leave while he is at her place. Explain it together and give him time to adjust. Able to get comfort from both of you simultaneously, while you both explain it's a joint decision.

This is the bad part. I remember having to comfort my son through many nights after she left. To make it even better, she blameshifted the whole thing on my shoulders. Don't give her the same opportunity.

Be his rock. The one solid piece of ground he can always count on as his reality shifts around him.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2540 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 3:03 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Friends,

We ARE going to tell him, together and soon. I am literally waiting for my wife to come home so we can work out together our approach and be ready for potential questions and reactions. I actually want to write it out so we won't deviate from the "script" and its main thrust--that this is NOT his or his sisters fault and we will always love them and be there for them.

Thanks for understanding this terribly difficult situation.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
standingonmarble
Member
Member # 31217
Default  Posted: 3:32 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

You might want to reassure you son that yes things aren't perfect but your mother and I will talk to all of you about it soon. Nothing in perfect, but at least he will know you aren't telling a lie and you will deal with it. Set a precedent for trust and follow thru, no matter how small it seems to you. You don't need to address any and every question they ask, you have to right to say that's an adult issue and don't concern yourself about it. This might be a new way of parenting your kids, but one that you will need to address on top of dealing the ex. Also another technique that helped with my kids during the rough spots was to turn it back on to them and ask them what they wanted to know, what was troubling them. A lot of the times it wasn't what was asked. Their vocabulary is small for such a big topic. Most of the time they just wanted reassurance about a change, love, how much their life would change/not change.

It really sucks that you have to deal with both parenting and legalities at the same time, but such is life.


At one time he was a man standing on marbles. Now I am a woman standing on marble.....

We are done fighting with each other and decide to fight FOR each other.


Posts: 737 | Registered: Feb 2011
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:29 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Here comes the anger and the demon face. She is dictating the terms of divorce or what "I" have to do if she ends it with him and we stay together. What the fuck? Fuck no!

If my resolve was weakening even an iota her gift was to confirm my decision even more. Says WE damaged Our son!! And demands that I admit this! Holy shit! I am so done!

Next will come begging or threats. Not sure which will come first. I'm betting on threats.

Enjoy single motherhood.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
standingonmarble
Member
Member # 31217
Default  Posted: 10:00 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

She is testing you. From here on out, she is going to test you to see if you will back down into the man you were. If she can get you to back down, she wins. Once she figures out that you won't back down she will settle down. Don't let the emotions get the best of you cuz I know you want to choke the life out of her at times for putting you all thru this.

I would recommend communicating thru email now. You will have a paper trail and you won't have any chance of a heated argument with her.


At one time he was a man standing on marbles. Now I am a woman standing on marble.....

We are done fighting with each other and decide to fight FOR each other.


Posts: 737 | Registered: Feb 2011
ButterflyGirl
Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 11:14 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Hi Abbondad. I will admit I have not followed everything from all your posts, but I've read enough to be tempted to give you a few of my thoughts.

Firstly, I'm also in FL, and my suggestion is to file, like yesterday. We were also going to be all civil about it, but that changes very quickly when they realize they are not running the show, they do not have their hooks in us, and we will not be bowing down to all their wishes. But why should they think we would be any different since we have been bowing down and begging them from day one to save the marriage? We were constantly plan B, and they cannot stand the thought of not having us as a backup any longer. This is where they go from confusing and somewhat remorseful to batshit crazy, threatening, angry, bargaining, and blameshifting. Do not expect her niceness to last very long when she realizes you are no longer putting up with her bullshit. This is why you get so much advice to get some things in writing while they are still feeling guilty, because I promise that will all change.

Perhaps this doesn't help, but I do have protection in place in the form of administrative orders, but my STBX STILL breaks the rules. It's just now I have some legal recourse, which you will not have until you file.

For the co-dependency thing, I've had a thought I would like to share. Perhaps not all would agree with me, but I think I could have been a 400-pound, drug addicted, abusive, gambling psycho, but that DOES NOT give him the right to cheat on me. It certainly gives him the right to LEAVE ME, but it DOES NOT EVER give him the right to lie to me, betray my trust, use and abuse me, and cheat on me. I sometimes get the feeling that you think if you could have been different, if you could have handled things differently, if you could just say or do the right thing, WW would wake the hell up and come running back to you, but you have to remember the affair has NOTHING to do with you. These are her issues and her brokenness, and you can't fix her. She has to want it, and at this point, it does not sound like she does. I get the feeling you want her to validate you in some way, to have her see how awesome you are and what she is missing, but you DO NOT need this from her. Perhaps you have issues that you would like to work on. I agree that books and IC would help you deal with your CO-D issues and not let them affect your future relationships (Co-Dependent No More was a great book for me), but please stop trying to get your validation from her. She is only making you feel worse about yourself. To me, this is what detachment is all about, realizing her words and actions should not dictate how you feel about yourself. Please only discuss kids and finances with her (which is even a challenge in my case as FuckTard likes to push any button he can, and the only button he has left is the kids since I refuse any other contact). This woman DOES NOT deserve your emotions on the situation any more. I would say to stop asking her questions about her feelings, about the other man, about anything other than kids and finances. If she ever wants you back (which I highly doubt she will ever be sincere in this), she will be volunteering this information without prompting. Please go completely NO CONTACT with this woman immediately. This is not to hurt her. It is to help you heal.

And I want you to really picture what you will be dealing with if she does come around saying she wants you back. Take a peek in reconciliation and see what it really takes to build a strong healthy marriage after infidelity. Unless you are prepared to rugsweep and take all the blame for her affair, you will have questions she will need to answer a thousand times, she needs to have no contact with this OM and any other men you deem not friends of the marriage, you will have to watch her like a hawk, you will need updates of where she is at all times, she will need to give up all passwords (and you will have to believe there are not secret Facebook accounts, emails, drop phones, etc.) All of these things are required to reconcile a marriage, and she's not even ready to break off communication with this guy..

You do not even have a remorseful spouse, but even if you did, think of what you would have to go through! Perhaps in the future you will get an ego boost by hearing her say that she finally realizes how awesome you are and what an idiot she has been, but hopefully by that time you will have realized that by yourself and have come to the point where you don't need her validation anymore and that you deserve better than her!!

As far as the children go, just to share my experience, my STBX and I agreed to try to tell the children together, which never happened. This was before I realized he had been bringing the children around the OW and her child for over a year and having them lie to me about it (telling them, "Don't tell mom, I'll tell mom, she will be mad if you talk about it"). He now always has the OW and her kid there on his time, calling her a "friend" to them. (Too bad he's cheating on her with another woman, but that's a different thread).

While I think a family talk is a good idea in some situations, in my situation, there is no co-parenting with STBX. It's called parallel parenting, meaning he does his thing, and I do mine. I do not think you need to focus on being a co-parent with this woman. While I agree it is ideal, it is not always possible, and I suggest you look up parallel parenting in case you need it.

I have explained to the children in age-appropriate terms what has happened, and I constantly reinforce to them that mom is always here for them, will always love them, and that I will always tell them the truth about anything they want to know. Your wife's relationship with the children is NOT your problem. You obviously can't badmouth her, but your focus should be on showing them as much love as you can and constantly being their soft place to land when they need comfort. The kids is the most difficult part of this whole ordeal for me. I'm in IC, and my children have been in IC for a few months now. I'm seriously trying to parent with an idiot who thinks the children are fine about everything. When he's pissed at me, he is the classic example of using the kids as pawns, sending messages through the children, trying to change visitation through them, telling them I'm evil and a liar and I can't be trusted, the list goes on and on. I am currently working with my a lawyer on what can be done about these issues, but it is more frustration than I can tolerate sometimes. I hope to God this will not be the case in your situation, but please be prepared for her craziness to start showing up in all forms when you stand up for yourself, including when it comes to the kids. When you have detached enough and she can no longer push your buttons, be prepared for her to hurt you any way she can think of, which might start including the kids.

Unfortunately, I think the kids will have feelings that this is their fault and that they did something wrong, and they need to be constantly reminded that this is not the case. After all the fights my older son has unfortunately witnessed, he still asked me last night if there is a small chance my WH and I will get back together and not go through with the divorce. I had to remind him again that daddy hurt mommy, and mommy doesn't have to put up with it. I also told my son that if he hurts people, they do not have to put up with him; and if people hurt him, he doesn't have to put up with them. I deserve better, and my children do too, and I can only hope that my actions are setting a good example for him.

I will apologize if I have rambled too much and brought too many of my own issues into this discussion, but I wanted to share my experiences and let you know you are not alone, you are amazing, and you will be just fine. Dealing with an unremorseful spouse is hell on Earth, but you will make it through. Lots and lots of hugs to you.


xBW~ 35
Two of the most darling sons ~ 10 and 6

Posts: 1991 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
PanicAttack53
Member
Member # 34195
Default  Posted: 1:03 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

AD,

Just popped in to read up on your sitch. You are doing great bro... keep it up and don't allow her to suck you into her abusive mind games. Critical contact only now... otherwise continue to detach... detach... detach.

Oh and BTW, scrap the past that some want to still bring up. We all know the whole story AD and it doesn't alter one bit what is happening now. Concentrate on *now* and forget about the rest.

-- Strength and Peace brother.


Me-BH Her-XWW | B/ 60 | D final on 10/1/13 I'm Lovin' life again!
Rest of the story really doesn't matter any more.
“Realize deeply that the present moment is all you have.” ― Eckhart Tolle

Posts: 868 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: Midwest
alphakitte
Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 6:15 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

Panic, I disagree that AD's directive to his wife to have sex with other men, for his personal enjoyment, doesn't have anything to do with what's going on now. What is happening now may be the consequences of that.


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 344 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
LonelyHusband
Member
Member # 34145
Default  Posted: 6:17 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

Lying to the children is, in this specific example, a terrible mistake in my opinion.

you should also realise that your wife is not going to nod quietly and knowingly whilst you tell the child the truth, not unless you gloss over absolutely everything and build a comfortable lie for them. It's going to turn into a shit storm. In front of your child.

I get you are only taking tentative steps towards divorce and your codependency is filling you with fear, but you need to step up and be a dad. Lying to your children is beneath you. The child clearly is not stupid, don't treat him as such unless you want to lose his respect too. The child has done nothing to deserve being lied to by both parents.

[This message edited by LonelyHusband at 6:19 AM, May 3rd (Friday)]


BS ( me) 41
fWS (OktoberMest) 35
D day #1 29/10/2011, D day #2 15/112011, D day #3 15/03/2012
Reconciling.
“It’s better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all”, is inadequate consolation when you vacuum up a child's hamster'

Posts: 1290 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: UK
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 6:33 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

Don't lie to your kids. Saying things will be OK means to him you are going to stay together. First thing, get him into counseling if you can. Kids that perceptive need to be able to work through the feelings. Give him tools for the future.

What you can say is that "I love you. We will always be your parents." If you aren't ready to tell him she is moving out, just say, "I love you. Mommy and I have some things to talk about. As soon as WE have made our decisions, then I (or we) will talk to you about it. I'm not ready to give you details about anything until WE have discussed things. These are adult issues, not kid issues. I love you."

The day we told the kids, I made EX practice before hand. Sure enough, he broke down into this sobbing mess and *I* had to tell the kids. He then ran from the house and left me there picking up the pieces.

It will get rough as you navigate a separation and "learn" to co-parent. Especially with someone who doesn't like their power taken away. You truly have to learn to detach and you don't want your kid in the middle. Sometimes that means letting go of what you expect her to do.

The only way I survived the beginning was learning the ONLY thing I could count on was for EX to do the wrong thing. The friends down in NB's can attest I have taken the highroad when I probably shouldn't. I did it for my kids, and my kids are (now) doing really well. I have my 9 year old in therapy, and have since we S, over 2.5 years ago. I'm watching my 7 year old and think I will put him in soon.

The other thing my IC and my dd's IC have told me is that kids will want their parents back together for a long time. Not until they are older teenagers can they really understand why people are not together. They are self-centric, and are supposed to be.

Just put your kids first, try to remember she is selfish and ego-centric and therefore not going to be looking out for anyone's interest but her own.

As I like to tell myself often, "I'm co-parenting with a lower Muppet."

Hang in there.


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4008 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Virginia
macakipa
Member
Member # 33735
Default  Posted: 7:11 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

...but I think I could have been a 400-pound, drug addicted, abusive, gambling psycho, but that DOES NOT give him the right to cheat on me. It certainly gives him the right to LEAVE ME, but it DOES NOT EVER give him the right to lie to me, betray my trust, use and abuse me, and cheat on me. I sometimes get the feeling that you think if you could have been different, if you could have handled things differently, if you could just say or do the right thing, WW would wake the hell up and come running back to you, but you have to remember the affair has NOTHING to do with you. These are her issues and her brokenness, and you can't fix her.

Bingo!


M -25 years, T - 31 years, 4 children
Dday October 8, 2011 - Multiple PAs and ONs
Divorced 1-8-13
"When you give a lot of importance to someone in your life, you lose your importance in their life."

Posts: 952 | Registered: Oct 2011
Shockleader
Member
Member # 36827
Default  Posted: 7:38 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

Great post ButterflyGirl, well said!


D-Day spring 2012
Me BS 47
XWW 44
One DD 19
Married 23 years
Divorced 12/23/13 Fu*king A!

The cruel, the unkind, those without honor, feast on the tender heart...


Posts: 613 | Registered: Sep 2012
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 7:39 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your responses. As I was reading them I wanted to respond to each and every detail as a conversation. But I can't.

Can all of you book a flight down to south florida for a real life group meeting? ;-)

Does anyone ever have Skype meetings? I would love that!

I have not backed down on my decision to divorce. My wife understands this and she is in panic mode. I don't care. That switch I have been waiting for has finally "clicked" off and I don't care anymore about her issues, rationalizations, blaming, none of it.

We are going for in-house separation for a while because the kids are breaking down. Our son is having anxiety attacks and our six year old is regressing into toddler behavior.

What we need to do is calm down (no fighting and definitely no more discussions about "us") to the point where we can tell them with the least amount of shock and subsequent damage to them. We are getting them both started on IC to ease them into this.

We are going to work out a script that includes something along the lines of "mommy and daddy are moving toward being just friends, we love each other, this is grown up stuff, nothing is your fault," etc.

Cemego, it's much along the lines of what you suggested.

If you're thinking that while we are in in-house separation she will manipulate me into flip-flopping on the divorce, I am glad to say you are wrong. She will probably try, but I have detached already. I am indifferent to her; I don't hate her. I am indifferent. I see a broken unhappy person. I am ready to move on.

As far as her affair, whatever. I will see her only a few hours in the evening. I told her if she texts him at our house I will not tolerate this in-my-face disrespect and in-house is promptly over and we tell the kids. If she leaves to see him, in-house is over and we tell the kids. To hell with her self-serving panic and I will do my best to tell the kids myself as she falls apart. They will have me, and I am together and strong.

If you support me on this, thank you. If you vehemently disagree and want to hurl some 2x4s, thank you. Based on what some of you have said, I expect them and know what they will be.

PS: Alpha, I must correct your characterization of events that transpired what is now two years ago, which I think now qualifies officially as "the past." (Gentle sarcasm.).

I did not issue a "directive." WE agreed to it, and she was as enthusiastic as I was. Excuse the TMI, but I have the soaked sheets to prove it. So it was not for MY own "personal enjoyment."

It got messed up for sure, but her sole responsibility began when she broke the core rule and did not tell me.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
lieshurt
Member
Member # 14003
Default  Posted: 7:55 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

We are going for in-house separation for a while because the kids are breaking down. Our son is having anxiety attacks and our six year old is regressing into toddler behavior.

Okay, you went from being completely unaware that your kids were aware of anything going on with your WS yesterday to now one is having anxiety attacks and the other is regressing into toddler behavior? At what point in the past 24 hours did this significant change in your kids occur?


I'm sorry if you don't like my Honesty, but to be fair I don't like your lies.

Sometimes it's better to push someone away...not because you stopped loving them but because you can't take the pain anymore.


Posts: 13646 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Houston
veritas
Member
Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 7:58 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

It got messed up for sure, but her sole responsibility began when she broke the core rule and did not tell me.

Are you in IC?

I ask this because now, after everything that has happened and you have lost control of the situation that you created, you now want to take the high road. You keep saying "she agreed" which implies that you brought it up and basically pimped your wife out. This isn't the typical open relationship situation at all. First you re-enacted her childhood rape to fit your fantasies, then you told her to have sex with other men again, to fit your fantasies. You're only upset now because she didn't respond like you thought she would: an objectified sexual puppet. I don't doubt that there were soaked sheets; if I had been violated and exploited sexually and emotionally like this woman has, I probably would be able to completely separate the physical act from any thoughts of emotion or sentiment.

The past is the past, but there are things you can do now: Take responsibility for your part in this clusterfuck. Quit lying to your children. Get some help.

[This message edited by veritas at 8:02 AM, May 3rd (Friday)]


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10168 | Registered: Feb 2004
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:01 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

Lies hurt,

No, this behavior has been going on for awhile in different manifestations. It's just reached a head as tensions between my wife and I have built. We are trying to take a breath and soothe the kids.

Please, everyone, understand. I am doing the best I can in an awful, confusing situation. I don't want to confuse the kids and this seems to be a hopefully workable approach.

If it crashes or just obviously isn't working then I am willing to take other more "bandage-ripping" approaches.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
macakipa
Member
Member # 33735
Default  Posted: 8:01 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

We are going for in-house separation for a while because the kids are breaking down.

Based on your story and posts I would suggest rethinking this. It takes a very strong resolve to live parallel lives in the same household with young children involved.

You may only see her for a few hours in the evening but are you really ready to face her with indifference?


M -25 years, T - 31 years, 4 children
Dday October 8, 2011 - Multiple PAs and ONs
Divorced 1-8-13
"When you give a lot of importance to someone in your life, you lose your importance in their life."

Posts: 952 | Registered: Oct 2011
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:05 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

You may only see her for a few hours in the evening but are you really ready to face her with indifference

Yes, I am. I have been faking it in so many ways for so long I am ok with it.

And hopefully it won't be for long. (We are not talking months here!)


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 8:05 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

In house separation is Hell on wheels. Did it for a year while my D went through it's iterations. Keeping a civil tounge was very difficult at various times.

Just to prepare you for one of the issues that is bound to come up, have an answer ready for them asking "why?". Not saying that in a snarky or obtuse way. What I mean is that you are going to tell them

we love each other

and they are going to witness you guys
(no fighting and definitely no more discussions about "u
s"). It's confusing enough for BS, Let alone kids.

BTDT. Just wanted you to have a heads up. Something I hadn't thought of beforehand in my D.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2540 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:16 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

"Are you in IC?"

Yes, I am.

"...you re-enacted her childhood rape to fit your fantasies."

Huh? Uh, no.

"Take responsibility for your part in this clusterfuck."

As I have reported on these forums many times, I do and I have. My deep remorse has been expressed tearfully countless times to my wife together and in MC.

But I will not be punished forever for a horrible decision. I had no crystal ball nor a degree in adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse and what not to do.

I do not mean to sound flippant. I feel guilt. But never once has my wife expressed an iota of guilt to me. Never. And condemn me if you like, but I deserve this.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 8:33 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

AD,

You both chose together to have a funky sex life. Big deal. She messed that shit up when she started lying. Ask anyone that is a part of the "swinger" community, what is rule #1? NO SECRETS.

My concern is about your kids, and I honestly think you two cohabitating, is only going to confuse and muddy the waters more.

You need to be open and honest with those kids. Stop the cycle of Crazy now.
Sit them down, and tell them, this has nothing to with them, you love them, and will always love them and will always put them first. Mom and you just can no longer be together because you are not good for each other. Let he put her spin on it however she wants. Your older child has already picked up on the mess, and craziness. He does NOT need to reassured that you two are going to be ok. He needs to be reassured (and constantly) that you both love him very much, and that life is going to change for all of you, but everything will be ok.

What the heck happened to her going to her own place. Even though you don't want to let it happen she is still manipulating the situation.
When she is out of the house you and your kids will feel an enormous sense of relief without worrying about her next crazymaking step.

((((and strength))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 7790 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
velveteer
Member
Member # 30997
Default  Posted: 8:40 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

Have to agree here Abbondad. In-house S will not help the kids and it will NOT help you. believe me - been there. it's awful.

I think you have to rip off the band-aid here - tell the kids what's happening and let her move out. Then focus all your love onto the kids and press ahead with the D.

This is such a hard stage, but it is necessary if you want to get to the other side, and you do.

Good luck
V


Divorced

Posts: 861 | Registered: Jan 2011
JustAShadow
Member
Member # 38370
Default  Posted: 8:43 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

Oh and BTW, scrap the past that some want to still bring up. We all know the whole story AD and it doesn't alter one bit what is happening now. Concentrate on *now* and forget about the rest.

^^^^^Agreed.

Veritas - I gently would like to say that I believe your statements were over the top and uncalled for in this situation.

AD - Are you making plans for your kids to get some counseling during this time? I also have to chime in with a vote for your W to move out as quickly as possible. I think that it will be VERY difficult to get the house feeling like a stable, safe environment for your kids with you both in it.

Beyond that stay strong and thanks for continuing to share your story. Good luck this weekend - I assume you'll be sitting the kids down this weekend?

[This message edited by JustAShadow at 8:43 AM, May 3rd (Friday)]


ME: 41 - Madhatter, 2 PAs, 1997, 2003
Him: 35 - Madhatter, 2 PAs, 2004, 3/2012 - 3/2014
Status: Living Apart

Posts: 194 | Registered: Feb 2013
ninebark
Member
Member # 24534
Default  Posted: 8:46 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

Children are so perceptive and they know much more than we ever think they do.
We told my son as soon as we decided to separate. My ex moved into the spare room until he found an apartment, so my DS had to be made aware of the situation.

I have an analogy from my own past experience. It is like walking past the door where your supervisor and boss are meeting. They see you and shut the door. You spend the rest of the day, or week, feeling paranoid and anxious. You don't know what they were talking about, it may have nothing to do with you, but why was the door shut. What were they talking about and what does that mean for your future? That is how your children feel when you try to keep them in the dark. They are constantly anxious and worried. They need the truth and reassurance that mom and dad will always love them and be there for them even if they no longer live together.

They need to know that this had nothing to do with them and they will always be loved and cherished. Explain how their lives may change and answer all their questions. If you don't quell their fears then the behaviors you are seeing are going to get worse.

I remember when we spoke to my son, we took him to where dad was going to be living so he could see it, and you could actually see the strain leaving his body when he realized that dad wasn’t far away and he could see him whenever he wanted.
Just keep in mind that keeping them in the dark for their own good does not work.
You have my support in this tough situation and I hope you find some peace soon.


BS (me) 40
WH - 48
Married 12 years
DS - 12
D-day 06/21/09
Separated....hopefully divorcing soon.

Posts: 630 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Canada
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:52 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

Tush and Velv,

Again, here is what I am concerned with. My wife is literally teetering on the edge of a breakdown once she saw I am serious--that I want a divorce.

I DON'T want my children exposed to this. Even if she moves out today, she WILL implode and my kids will freak, to put it mildly.

I want to minimize damage to our kids. That is all I want.

She is convinced--maybe delusionally--that she will be better able to collect herself if we don't jump into divorce right at this minute. And thus we will be able to tell the kids more calmly and collectively, making their road less stressful.

I understand that it seems that once again she is steering the ship and/or deliberately or not deliberately manipulating me with her emotional fucked-up-ness.

I am trying to navigate my exit out of this drama and minimize the damage to our children.

Should I just take an up-or-down vote on the forum? I am utterly drained and confused. But again, I AM DIVORCING.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 8:56 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

Ask your IC about counselors in your area for your kids.

Stay strong,go NC as much as you can, and keep detaching. The thing I found about being Co-D and doing inhouse Seperation was the more I detached the more I wanted her gone. Not saying this will happen to you but start actively building your own life again without your WW in it even while she is in the house.

She will continue to implode. You may be able to hold it together for the kids but she may not. In my situation, we were able to work out a balance to coexist in the house but we both suffer in our own ways. I stay frustrated that my life is basically on pause and count down the days until she is out and my WW literally had to watch me fade away from her as I detached. While I don't have sympathy for her I know it hurt her that she had to watch it and realize she no longer held any sway over me. She now wonders what I am doing, she tells friends she thinks I am cheating, and in general tries to project her moods and feelings onto me. Her mind is the one spinning all the time instead of mine. Her issues and they aren't my problem but I just wanted to let you know what is happening in my case. I literally assumed everything she told me had a sinister motive behind it and it helped me to detach.

Also be prepared for the RAGE and it's likely going to be you that has it. It may not happen because we all process differently but at some point after a BS comes out of their own FOG (I was in one as well) the anger phase is super charged. This especially sucks if you were the one trying to fix things while they contantly ignored or continued to crap all over you. This is pure, seething, hatred, and anger. It's usually driven by the realization that we actually "allowed" our WS to crap all over us for an extended period of time. You will be pissed at her and yourself but if you go through it, this is normal as well. Just work through it and focus on what's important. Go to the gym, go running, do whatever you have to to focus that energy in a direction that has a non negative impact on you and your famiily.

Work on that list man, your kids will love it and need the extra attention and support during all of this.

Allowing her back in may be like bringing the gasoline back into an already burning house to try to put the fire out but each of us has their own path. My guess is that now that she is back you won't be able to get her out again even if she does start messing with other man. SO run this and any other things you deem necessary by your lawyer to make sure you are protecting yourself in this process.

ETA: Take some deep breaths. You will get bombarded by people giving you advice and suggestions. As always take what applies and leave the rest. Walk the path you have to walk to get through this. After some time go back and read some of your initial posts to see how far you have actually come and I found that much of the advice that I didn't think applied at that particular time in the past may be just what I needed to hear at that moment. It also gave me some perspective on how things currently were for me. Sending you strength.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 10:08 AM, May 3rd (Friday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
D hopefully official in 7/2014

Posts: 1810 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
alphakitte
Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 9:04 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

AD, gently back at you:

' ". . . I must correct your characterization of events that transpired what is now two years ago, which I think now qualifies officially as "the past." '

You think it is in the past, but the debris field from events that you describe have the half life of uranium and the penetration of neutron radiation.

As to core rules being broken? Perhaps there was a primary rule of protection and fidelity that was broken at your mere suggestion that your wife have sex with other men and tell you about it to spice up your, and her, sex life? Many spouses, especially women, would have to detach from their husband, and their marriage, in order to accomplish that.

I remember you posting that her sister texted that your WW can't, or shouldn't, be with you. Her sister might have been referring to, and what others have mentioned, is that your wife isn't safe with you.


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 344 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
standingonmarble
Member
Member # 31217
Default  Posted: 9:38 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

This is for when you get a little further down the road but you might want to think about "nesting" as an arrangement for your kids. It is where the kids stay put and the parent rotate in and out of the house. My ex and I did this for awhile and I also know of another situation when they did this. All the kids involved has so far grown into great kids. You do have to do what's right for your kids.

Sorry so much hate is coming your way.


At one time he was a man standing on marbles. Now I am a woman standing on marble.....

We are done fighting with each other and decide to fight FOR each other.


Posts: 737 | Registered: Feb 2011
crazynot
Member
Member # 24572
Default  Posted: 11:23 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

Hey Abbondad, when you do tell the kids and she moves out, I think you'll be really surprised how much better things will be than you can imagine. My kids both found life a million times better when all the lies had gone from the house. That was what really got to them. My son (then 14) wrote a song called 'Lies and Deceit' with his band... although yours are much younger, they are clearly stressed out. When the day comes, it won't be as bad for them as you imagine. Wishing you strength.


Me - 50
Him - 51
DDay 21 March 2009
Divorcing and delighted!

Do you want me to tell you something really subversive? Love is everything it's cracked up to be. That's why people are so cynical about it.


Posts: 839 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: UK
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:39 PM, May 4th (Saturday)

Update:

Wife nears nervous breakdown as I press forward toward divorce. Can't function at new job, doesn't want a divorce.

Kids are seeing this and getting nervous, wondering mommy and daddy are crying all the time.

Wife asks for separation instead of divorce. I agree as I want her out of the house so the kids won't be exposed to this.

Wife has panic attack tonight and says she must leave immediately so we can "grow" in our relationship, says I am too controlling and won't let her "grow." I retort (quietly, calmly) that perhaps the reason she senses I have been controlling is that she lied and reestablished contact with the AP and I would be more inclined to "let her grow" if she were not having an affair (physical or not at this point).

Logic fails to penetrate utter self absorption and she leaves in tears as six year old begs her not to go and nine year old slams out of the house.

Calls in tears and says she wants her family and "can't do this to the children" (meaning separate).

No allusion to the obvious: if,she wants her family back and wants to "heal" then no other man may be in her life. Will this tiny little detail occur to her?

I think not.

Husband pissed and quite bored with the drama.

Oh, and our dachshund bit the one remaining kid in the neighborhood she had not bitten. Mom comes over and says her husband will shoot her if this happens again.

Good times...


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
PurpleRose
Member
Member # 33129
Default  Posted: 10:34 PM, May 4th (Saturday)

She is utterly and completely toxic to you AD. I know you think you are protecting your kids if you let her stay... But I swear, that level of crazy is not good for them. In fact, I'd even say its worse for them to be living with the emotionally unstable people you and your WW have become.

I hope, for real, that you can find the strength to leave her once and for all. Toxic, AD... Toxic.


divorced the Dooosh
*****************************
even if you find your voice,
sometimes it does not matter anymore,
when you speak to a man who is deaf by choice.
~dodinsky

Posts: 3518 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: Happyville
Dark Inertia
Member
Member # 30727
Default  Posted: 11:52 PM, May 4th (Saturday)

Logic fails to penetrate utter self absorption and she leaves in tears as six year old begs her not to go and nine year old slams out of the house.

This pisses me off to no end.

No wonder your kids are nervous, having to see such drama at their age. Honestly, you and the wifey need to get your shit together and please stop exposing the children to such antics. They need to be in IC asap, and if your wife is going to continue to act like a melodramatic queen then I am not sure in house separation is your best option.

She is a walking, talking, toxic mess. You are struggling with co-dependency issues. She needs to be outta there, asap.


"If I listened earlier, I wouldn't be here. But that's just the trouble with me. I give myself very good advice, but I very seldom follow it."

Posts: 1172 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: The Ohio
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 12:03 AM, May 5th (Sunday)

doesn't want a divorce

Actions, not words.
Kids are seeing this and getting nervous, wondering mommy and daddy are crying all the time.

Not good on so many levels. You need to be their rock and with her there, it's not going to happen.
Wife asks for separation instead of divorce.

Time to find a way to re assert dominance in your relationship.
Wife has panic attack tonight and says she must leave immediately so we can "grow" in our relationship, says I am too controlling and won't let her "grow."

You've BTDT. She's panicking and needs the OM fix.
I retort (quietly, calmly) that perhaps the reason she senses I have been controlling is that she lied and reestablished contact with the AP and I would be more inclined to "let her grow" if she were not having an affair (physical or not at this point).

Good, but you're merely stating the obvious to someone who refuses to see. Next time try, "I'm sorry you feel that way", don't give her the satisfaction of a real response.
utter self absorption and she leaves

Absolutely. These are the same kids she made the promise to? Did she even try to alleviate their fears?
Calls in tears and says she wants her family and "can't do this to the children" (meaning separate).

After a quick call to the OM who realizes it's not NSA sex tonight and turns her down.(Or won't answer at this point)
No allusion to the obvious: if,she wants her family back and wants to "heal" then no other man may be in her life. Will this tiny little detail occur to her?

I think not.


Not while she still thinks/believes/hopes that she can intimidate you.

Husband pissed and quite bored with the drama.

Good, remove the drama.

Strength brother. It's a heck of a ride. I am going to argue semantics here. She's not imploding and doing damage only to herself, she's exploding and doing as much collateral damage as possible.

You have the choice of when it ends.


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2540 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
grace68
Member
Member # 28241
Default  Posted: 12:52 AM, May 5th (Sunday)

She is utterly and completely toxic to you AD. I know you think you are protecting your kids if you let her stay... But I swear, that level of crazy is not good for them. In fact, I'd even say its worse for them to be living with the emotionally unstable people you and your WW have become.

and

This pisses me off to no end.

No wonder your kids are nervous, having to see such drama at their age. Honestly, you and the wifey need to get your shit together and please stop exposing the children to such antics. They need to be in IC asap, and if your wife is going to continue to act like a melodramatic queen then I am not sure in house separation is your best option.

She is a walking, talking, toxic mess. You are struggling with co-dependency issues. She needs to be outta there, asap

x1000!

Enough is enough. Protect your children from this drama. Wanting to present a united front after your children have already witnessed this behavior will only cause your children more confusion and an inability to trust their instincts.

Don't protect your wife and her role in your household. Protect your children. If that means your wife falling apart and leaving, then she probably would have done it anyway. You are prolonging the agony of the situation. Your children can only begin to heal when they understand the ground they are standing on. It's not fair but their strength and cues will only come from you. That means you must stop taking your cues from her.


Me - BS
Him - Doesn't Matter
Status: Divorced

Posts: 109 | Registered: Apr 2010
AppleBlossom
Member
Member # 38541
Default  Posted: 1:32 AM, May 5th (Sunday)

Abbondad, my ex husband was told on a Thursday that our marriage was over and he needed to move out when he could find a place. I was okay wiht himi sleeping in the spare room and taking a little time to get himself together. He had no employment, so I knew it might be a few weeks. Friday he was all nice, washed the dishes, took the garbage out, chenged his son's nappy. Saturday he got a bit bored of being "good" and started the emotional blackmail. Sunday he was weeping, Monday he was flailing in the kitchen, threatening to kill himself. In front of the kids.

I took him to the hospital and left him when he was admitted into a psych ward. When I went back to take him some personal things, I walked in on him as he was laughing and making friends with the nice nurse.

Against all the pressure from him, from my friends, from the hospital staff, I refused to take him back. Refused. Having an adult manipulating me like that, being "on the edge" around the kids.

I am sorry, but this issue of her being "okay" is her manipulating this situation by way of her mental health is just that - a manipulation. Oh, I know I dont know her. But I have read enough to see that she has you in knots.

Believe me, if you show her the door quick smart she will rant and rave and have a "breakdown" and the kids will be traumatised. And then when she is living away from you not having any attention paid to her, she will make a miraculous recovery.

You are a very dear, kind man, but I think at the moment htis quality is being used against you.

Please believe me, I say this as someone who was the poster child for co-dependency, and who grew up watching my father abuse my mother for forty years in exactly the same way. I put up with the "please dont leave me when I need you the most, please dont leave me or I will lose everything include my mental health, and how can you do this to meeee and to uuuuuus" for years. And believed it. I look back and see that I even sought out the compay of other women who propped up weak and cowardly men who all stayed home or changed jobs or checked out of responsibilities and consequences due to their own fear of a nervous breakdown.

i have had my own issues with depression and anxiety and suicidal thoughts. I am currently on medication myself. But as a depression and anxiety sufferer, I would NEVER put my children through this. Ever. If there was a HINT that my kids could see or where aware that my behaviour, my marriage breakdown, or the emotional safety of them was in any way at risk, him or I would have been out the door. Which is what happened.

We are six years out now, and the ex is still a douche, but we parent well together. The kids saw and heard some things I wish they hadnt - and trust me, believe me - they wait quietly outside doors - they know something is going on, even by the atmosphere. But we all worked through it, two steps forward and one step back.

I realise this comes in the form of the 2 x 4, but it is done kindly and with real concern and experience.


Posts: 154 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Australia
Grace and Flowers
Member
Member # 34431
Default  Posted: 1:33 AM, May 5th (Sunday)

I told her if she texts him at our house I will not tolerate this in-my-face disrespect and in-house is promptly over and we tell the kids. If she leaves to see him, in-house is over and we tell the kids.

Whoa....so, you're concerned about how you tell the kids, but you are using that telling them as a THREAT if she doesn't do what you want?

Please abandon this thinking. Just tell the kids already. They are not stupid, obviously...and the longer they witness the anger and agression in the house, but dont get an explanation, the worse it will be for them.

Don't wait for her....take care of your kids FIRST. Please.


I'm Happy, not Sad!

Posts: 1148 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: US
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:18 AM, May 5th (Sunday)

Hello, Friends,

So my wife is coming home after spending the night at the separation apartment. She wants to go back tonight.

She wants to have another "talk" with me.

I am utterly emotionally drained at this point. I don't want to have any more "talks" in which we go around and around the same shit--while she is still in contact with the AP.

She will want to talk yet again about "us" and how our relationship can be improved, how our "dynamic" could change so we can start over.

Again, I am really done with this.

I want to tell her simply, "I cannot talk about us until I know he is utterly out of your and our lives."

Any other way I can express it? Advice?


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 8:31 AM, May 5th (Sunday)

You cannot lead a horse to water. You just can't. The bottom line is that she knows what she needs to do. She is CHOOSING to make the wrong decision.

All you need to do is let go. Do not talk to her any longer about this situation at all.


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4008 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Virginia
crazynot
Member
Member # 24572
Default  Posted: 9:33 AM, May 5th (Sunday)

Exactly. Don't hold out any hope to her that you and she can have a relationship. Don't agree to have the talk. Tell her to stay away. I still hear you bargaining with yourself and her. Let time and distance do their healing work on you and your children, without her. And maybe then you'll get the strength you need to divorce her.


Me - 50
Him - 51
DDay 21 March 2009
Divorcing and delighted!

Do you want me to tell you something really subversive? Love is everything it's cracked up to be. That's why people are so cynical about it.


Posts: 839 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: UK
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 9:50 AM, May 5th (Sunday)

Channel Grumpy Cat here, Dad. Whatever she says to you, your response is:

"No."


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7683 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
grace68
Member
Member # 28241
Default  Posted: 10:00 AM, May 5th (Sunday)

Tell her no. You and the kids are emotionally drained and need a break from the drama.

If you feel the need to throw her a bone, Tell her after if you see a good solid month of physical and mental no contact with OM and introspective progress through individual counseling you will reconsider communication.

Until then the answer, for your children's sake, is a hard line "no" talk or negotiation about the relationship.

From now on strictly business about kids and finances. Through email and text.


Me - BS
Him - Doesn't Matter
Status: Divorced

Posts: 109 | Registered: Apr 2010
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 10:30 AM, May 5th (Sunday)

Thanks, everyone!

We just had the talk. We hammered out coparenting schedule and drew up the "contract" with regard to our interactions: little and only limited to kids and business.

And, crucially, I made it clear: "I will not have any discussions about us with Him in your life. Until and unless he is gone from our lives forever there will be no "us." And don't tell me "I am ready to end it with him." You need to have already ended with him.

I didn't say "NC for at least a month" or anything like that.

In any case she did not argue or say anything. She said "I understand."

Good enough for me for now.

I am looking at this as IT. We are done.

My task: 180, detach.

Oh, and one parting dagger of manipulation: "do you see I'm wearing my ring?" I am still your wife.

Whatever.

I will be needing your support through this.

Thank you.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
crazynot
Member
Member # 24572
Default  Posted: 10:34 AM, May 5th (Sunday)

You have all our support, Abbondad. You've just done a very hard thing, even though it's the right thing. Let this be the last big talk you have with her for a while, and really concentrate on focussing all of your thoughts away from her. This will hurt, you will feel lonely and lost, but we will all be here for you, and many of us have felt the same pain.


Me - 50
Him - 51
DDay 21 March 2009
Divorcing and delighted!

Do you want me to tell you something really subversive? Love is everything it's cracked up to be. That's why people are so cynical about it.


Posts: 839 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: UK
standingonmarble
Member
Member # 31217
Default  Posted: 10:41 AM, May 5th (Sunday)

Way to go!!!!! Keep it simple with her and let the manipulation slide of your back. Recognize it for what it is. A desperate attempt at returning to the past.

Proud of you!!


At one time he was a man standing on marbles. Now I am a woman standing on marble.....

We are done fighting with each other and decide to fight FOR each other.


Posts: 737 | Registered: Feb 2011
IrishLass518
Member
Member # 34373
Default  Posted: 11:54 AM, May 5th (Sunday)

You have our support and you are free to PM, post or vent. The place you find yourself standing in is a very tough one and we will help you through. You are stronger than you know and believe it or not, she already knows just how strong you are.


Me: 45 BS Divorced
Him: 45 Married OW
DDay: 07/04/2008
Divorced: 06/15/2011
5 kids: IrishLass 27,IrishLad 25, IrishLass 22, IrishLad 21 and IrishLad 12
"You can't run from trouble..there ain't no place that far"

Posts: 1674 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: WA
Grace and Flowers
Member
Member # 34431
Default  Posted: 12:59 PM, May 5th (Sunday)

Great! Now just stick to the NC and you will be AMAZED at how much better you will feel.

I told my WXH that we had absolutely nothing to talk about as long as he was with the OW. And we don't. Just D stuff (while the D was being done), and kid stuff, which isn't much since our kids are in college.

Lately, he's been trying to talk to me...he's unhappy with everything in his life. (D Day was 18 months ago and we haven't lived together in over a year). I "told" him I was sorry to hear that, but I didn't want to talk to him. He is just not my business anymore, and my life is sooooooo much better without him now!

Keep going on the NC. It really does get better. Oh, and talk to your kids!


I'm Happy, not Sad!

Posts: 1148 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: US
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 2:58 PM, May 5th (Sunday)

OK, quick advice needed. WW is freaking out about separating and leaving the children and how to tell the children and when to tell the children. Freaking out is not clinical enough. She is in the grips of major panic attacks and horror of abandonment.

(I think we have down the "what" part: timeout for mommy and daddy, we love each other, we love you, none of this is your fault, etc.).

So:

We are ruling out telling them tonight and then she just splits for good. They will take it too much like abrupt abandonment.

What about telling them tomorrow, after mommy (with the help of short term meds) has hopefully collected herself, and then she moves out later in the week?

If so, how many days after we tell them should she move out?

I know there is no perfect answer, but I have read that at least a few days should elapse between telling them and the mom or dad moving out for separation.

Another possibility that I broached. She is going on long term meds. Not sure which ones. She is already on ADs, so we are thinking mood stabilizers.

I suggested that perhaps she could wait until they kick in and then her insanity could abate where we can tell them, she could go, and not have a complete nervous breakdown?

Any ideas?

I know, "Just do it, and fuck her" is on the lips of many of you; be the strong one, etc. But I just can't expose them to their mother having a serious breakdown in front of them as daddy assures them everything will be OK.

They will be traumatized enough.

Thank you!


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
IrishLass518
Member
Member # 34373
Default  Posted: 3:06 PM, May 5th (Sunday)

Abbondad, this is the roughest road. There is no right answer, unfortunately no matter when you do it, it will not be easy. I see a lot of "we" in your post. This is hard for there is no more "we". You have to do what is best for you and your kids. She has already established that she cannot. You may have to do this alone as she is already avoiding this like the plague. You have this in you and you already know that with her there it has the potential to be far more traumatic for the kids. I am so sorry for what you are dealing with.


Me: 45 BS Divorced
Him: 45 Married OW
DDay: 07/04/2008
Divorced: 06/15/2011
5 kids: IrishLass 27,IrishLad 25, IrishLass 22, IrishLad 21 and IrishLad 12
"You can't run from trouble..there ain't no place that far"

Posts: 1674 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: WA
standingonmarble
Member
Member # 31217
Default  Posted: 3:20 PM, May 5th (Sunday)

The mommy is sick, she needs to get some help to get better. We won't be seeing her as much as we used to, but don't worry, I am here for you and we both love you. You did nothing wrong, life is just different when you grow up. You will see mommy on these days . You won't change schools, lose your friends, move to a new house etc..... The only thing that will change is that mommy will live somewhere else.

Hope that gives you something to start with for the hardest conversation you will ever have in life.

Show that you are reliable, strong and that this is not breaking you.

After they go to bed, crack open a beer and go hide somewhere in house where they can't hear you cry. (the shower is good for that too)


At one time he was a man standing on marbles. Now I am a woman standing on marble.....

We are done fighting with each other and decide to fight FOR each other.


Posts: 737 | Registered: Feb 2011
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 3:34 PM, May 5th (Sunday)

Do NOT tell them that you love each other when it is so demonstrably not true. I question why you think it would be abrupt when she has already been spending so much time at the other place already.

Yep, this was the toughest part for me too. Ice cold beer and an extremely hot shower. Sobs muffled in a towel.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2540 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 4:50 PM, May 5th (Sunday)

gently - She is manipulating you. She should not be your worry anymore.

So she is having panic attacks, OK well she's getting knocked off her fence, and had her cake ripped out of her hand. She lacks the ability to pick it up herself or go find a ladder to get back up there.

Do not let her "anxiety, depression, mental illness" (I say this in quotations because she has been able to manipulate you all along with her behaviors associated with this)stop you from protecting yourself and your kids from anymore hurt.

Your kids know what's up, the longer you wait to tell them the less credible you are going to seem to them. They need one parent that they feel they can be honest with and express their concerns with.

Just keep up the 180 with her, no more discussions, about how she feels. If she is having an anxiety attack, or overwhelmed with fear/panic, then she needs to contact her Dr, her Priest, or her Friends.
NOT YOU, make this clear to her. I am willing to bet the panic attacks will be lessened or disappear altogether when she can no longer get your attentions with them.

(((((and strength )))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 7790 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 4:52 PM, May 5th (Sunday)

"I cannot talk about us until I know he is utterly out of your and our lives."

It sounds as if you are saying to your wife,
"Go away and live in your apartment and conduct the life of a single woman, including continuing the affair with the current OM, and when the affair finally peters out, come home and we will reconcile".

The promise to reconcile when she has totally ended the affair with the OM is very strange - sort of giving her a license to cheat.

You should deal with the issue during your current discussions; totally commit or divorce. Anything less invites abuse of your obviously generous nature. There is no reason why you can't settle this crisis right now; one way or the other. I see you are running out of patience, but your wishy washy refusal to make hard decisions is at the root of this mess. Too much drama. Mend the marriage or bring down the axe.


Posts: 1689 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
crazynot
Member
Member # 24572
Default  Posted: 4:54 PM, May 5th (Sunday)

No. Do not do this to your kids. You need to sort this, now, and be strong for them. They are in the middle of a storm now and you need to calm it. The only way that can happen is if she moves out. Now. Not days later. She will still see them. YOu will be divorced, separate parents. It's sad but it happens. You NEED to make this ok for them.


Me - 50
Him - 51
DDay 21 March 2009
Divorcing and delighted!

Do you want me to tell you something really subversive? Love is everything it's cracked up to be. That's why people are so cynical about it.


Posts: 839 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: UK
crazynot
Member
Member # 24572
Default  Posted: 5:00 PM, May 5th (Sunday)

and please remember, this is NOT about 'we love each other'... you both love them - but they need to go through this without the confusion of thinking you'll get back together.


Me - 50
Him - 51
DDay 21 March 2009
Divorcing and delighted!

Do you want me to tell you something really subversive? Love is everything it's cracked up to be. That's why people are so cynical about it.


Posts: 839 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: UK
PurpleRose
Member
Member # 33129
Default  Posted: 5:32 PM, May 5th (Sunday)

ok, I'm going to hit you with a2x4 here AD...

it's time to man the fuck up. There is NO MORE "WE" in your life. There is a you, and there is a her.

SHE is moving out, so that you can heal from the destructive nuclear bomb she dropped on your lives. She is moving out, and there is no more "us" "we" whatever. Done.

You must find the strength to be the sane and dependable one for your kids now. They are going to need you - yes. But to trickle truth your kids is NOT the way to go dude!!

Tell them the truth. Mommy is moving out because she and Daddy cannot live together anymore. Tell them why - Mommy hurt you and you need to live apart now because of that.

They deserve the truth. You cannot keep doing this to them, or to YOU. She is no longer your worry - let her OM worry about her mental stability.

And if she's truly THAT off her rocker, then you'd better get your ass a court order involving some sort of supervised visitation or something. Otherwise you are allowing her to damage your kids even further. Take charge dammit! You can do this!


divorced the Dooosh
*****************************
even if you find your voice,
sometimes it does not matter anymore,
when you speak to a man who is deaf by choice.
~dodinsky

Posts: 3518 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: Happyville
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 6:49 PM, May 5th (Sunday)

Thanks, Everyone.

So she left for the separation apartment "just for tonight" without us telling the kids anything. (Told the kids she was visiting her sick mother.) She kept peppering me with questions about what to do, but I did not want to talk to her and told her so.

What makes a woman leave her young children like this? Unless there is physical or emotional abuse in the home (well, there is, but it's not coming from me), what in god's name are these people doing? We all have "issues," are to some extent "damaged" if we have lived life at all, but dammit, you do what you need to do for your children. You make painful sacrifices.

I just realized that the last two sentences could equally apply to me...

Anyway, right now I am not sobbing--I will save that for later--but I am angry. A quiet cool anger at her and all the men and women who have done this to their families.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
hummingbird8
Member
Member # 25086
Default  Posted: 6:56 PM, May 5th (Sunday)

You are not helping your kids out by letting her go in an out of their lives. You need to make a decision and take action. I know it's not easy but your kids deserve to have some stability in their life. You are not providing that right now either. You need to be in counseling if your not already. Good luck.

Posts: 452 | Registered: Aug 2009
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 7:45 PM, May 5th (Sunday)

Oh, and one parting dagger of manipulation: "do you see I'm wearing my ring?" I am still your wife

Really? In what M would
So she left for the separation apartment "just for tonight" without us telling the kids anything. (Told the kids she was visiting her sick mother.)

be acceptable?

Brother, she is sick. You are so far beyond the safe zone that you have to keep her away from the kids except for what the judge allows for visitation. How many hours ago did she make the 'still your wife comment'?

Get the S done. See your lawyer. Right now

What makes a woman leave her young children like this? Unless there is physical or emotional abuse in the home (well, there is, but it's not coming from me), what in god's name are these people doing? We all have "issues," are to some extent "damaged" if we have lived life at all, but dammit, you do what you need to do for your children.

she is in the land of unicorn farting skittles where there are no consequences for real world actions.

Sorry, the more angry I get, the pithier I get.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2540 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
standingonmarble
Member
Member # 31217
Default  Posted: 7:46 PM, May 5th (Sunday)

Abbondad, I think the hardest thing to accept is that this is who she is. It will take a long time for her to snap out of it, IF she ever does. Didn't you write that her mother mentioned BPD? This isn't all that new then.

For now, try to wrap you mind around the fact that this is who she is. Stop trying to treat her like a rational person, she isn't. Stop hoping that if you wait one more day she will be rational again, It won't happen. Think about sitting down with the kids tomorrow and what you will say to them. Keep as much the same for your kids as you can, but don't hide the truth from them either. Don't give them more to worry about then necessary. Finally reassure them that you 3 are a team, and you lead them as you all work together to get thru this.


At one time he was a man standing on marbles. Now I am a woman standing on marble.....

We are done fighting with each other and decide to fight FOR each other.


Posts: 737 | Registered: Feb 2011
roughroadahead
Member
Member # 36060
Default  Posted: 7:46 PM, May 5th (Sunday)

Agreed. This may be a little 2x4, which isn't really my style. However, it is apparent your children are suffering. I'm not sure what you fear with regard to your children, exactly, but whatever it is, it is infinitely preferable to what you're doing now. You are lying to your children. While it is not appropriate to go into details of the affair, you owe them an explanation.

Do not use the words "time out". That implies that she will be coming back after a certain time. Who knows what the future holds, but your children will cling desperately to those words, and it is something that may not happen.

Please get your kids into counseling. There is a lot of instability and turmoil in their lives right now, and they need someone to help them navigate it.

You will lose their trust if you don't start telling them the truth. This may be controversial, but you are essentially gaslighting your own children.


BS-Me 30s
WS-Him 30s
D-Day 4/2012 (Insisted EA only)
D-Day 5/2012 (Did I say EA? Ummm..)
Numerous other TT/broken NC d-days until S 1/2013. D settled 11/2013
MOW-coworker, 40s.
2 DS and DD all w/autism

Posts: 725 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: USA
Grace and Flowers
Member
Member # 34431
Default  Posted: 9:12 PM, May 5th (Sunday)

I second what everyone else is saying here.

Tell the kids. Use age appropriate language, but NO trickle truth, or "we" statements. As far as "abandonment".... Dude, it may be that she does abandon the kids. STOP waiting for her to pull herself together to deal with this. YOU have to deal with it.

The same month of D Day, one of our sons was diagnosed with a rare blood cancer. Then followed a solid YEAR of surgeries, treatments, misery. And guess what! WXH was there for NONE OF IT. So yes, my son feels abandoned....BECAUSE HE WAS.

You cannot control or influence her choices, even when they have to do with the kids. Just tell them. Mommy is moving out. Mommy and Daddy cannot live together right now. You (the kids) did nothing wrong. You are still loved, still safe. I would caution YOU not to tell them that "Mommy loves them". That is for HER to say, and if she doesn't, it will only sound fake coming from you.

I tried for a long time to tell my son that Daddy loved him, that Daddy was divorcing ME, not him. But WXHs ACTIONS spoke otherwise. So I stopped.

All you can do is love and take care of those kids. Straight answers. NOW.

And I agree....counseling might help them if they are seeing their mom break down.

I hope that tomorrow is the day you tell your kids the truth, and start your new life. If you aren't honest with them, they will feel that they can trust no one. Be the person they can trust.

Good luck.

[This message edited by SadMad2012 at 9:14 PM, May 5th (Sunday)]


I'm Happy, not Sad!

Posts: 1148 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: US
AppleBlossom
Member
Member # 38541
Default  Posted: 10:31 PM, May 5th (Sunday)

Abbondad, there are a ton of health professionals that can assist your wife with her health issues. Let them deal with it.

Does she have family? Does she have friends? Does she have a phone that is capable of making a call to someone that can give her objective and clinical advice on her meds?

I think I understand why you are doing so, but it seems that your wife's emotional needs are taking precedence over your children. She has a "separation" apartment and another man - there is nothing at all stopping her leaving NOW.

Your kids do not deserve to be lied to or having her coming and going and flashing her wedding ring. I am assuming she keeps this ring on when she visits OM?

Believe me, it will be kinder on you and your children if you sort out this mess now, especially as you say you are done.


Posts: 154 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Australia
alphakitte
Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 11:28 PM, May 5th (Sunday)

You mention physical, or emotional abuse in your home.
Specifically, And when I retrace my previous relationships, a disturbing and revealing pattern emerges: when a girlfriend began to come too close, began to really fall in love with me, I backed off. More than backed off--I broke up with them. When a girlfriend's interest waned, I became obsessively jealous and agonized over it--very much like I am reacting now.

This is intimacy avoidant behavior and can be very abusive to the person on the receiving end.

Some therapists refer to it as attachment disorder and explain why you could ask your wife to do what you asked her to do.

This learned behavior runs deep and is most difficult to unravel. Without great effort made to understand why you are this way and efforts made to change to a healthy behavior and non-abusive manner within which to relate you are destined to repeat these behaviors and relationship styles.



------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 344 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
crazynot
Member
Member # 24572
Default  Posted: 12:34 AM, May 6th (Monday)

Abbondad, I am worried that you're still thinking that the problem is that she's leaving (although, oddly and unacceptably, only for one night). The problem is that she's coming back for some reason, and that the kids are still in the dark about the fact that their parents' marriage is over. I understand why you feel like you do, really, but advise you gently that your healing will start when you really detach from her and stop thinking of yourself as a couple.


Me - 50
Him - 51
DDay 21 March 2009
Divorcing and delighted!

Do you want me to tell you something really subversive? Love is everything it's cracked up to be. That's why people are so cynical about it.


Posts: 839 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: UK
dmari
Member
Member # 37215
Default  Posted: 12:36 AM, May 6th (Monday)

Please please please get your kids into IC. It seems as if you and your stbx are both in a fog ~ you in a BS fog and your stbx in a WS fog. You both aren't able to see that what is happening is harming your children. Please make sure you get them into IC immediately.

I'm speaking from experience regarding dealing with a WS with mental health issues. You want to control the situation so that your WS doesn't have a breakdown. YOU cannot control that. This is why it is SO important that your kids be in IC. It's not if but when your WS has a breakdown, you want your kids to be able to have therapeutic support in place.

I was trying to control my situation because I was afraid that my stbx was going to make good on his threat to blow his head off and have the kids find him. Both my children's therapist told me that I can't control what my stbx does. And that IF my stbx did do that, the therapists would do all that they could possibly do to support my children through it. I needed to hear that.

Get your children support from a therapist asap.


Me (BS): 42 Children: DD 18, DS 15
Mediation date: 7/10/14 and 7/22/14
Final final court date: Oct 2014

Posts: 2112 | Registered: Oct 2012
laney57
Member
Member # 35617
Default  Posted: 4:14 AM, May 6th (Monday)

Abbondad,
I have not read any comments to your thread yet or any of your history, but at this time in my life I could have written it. You can do this (that's what I say to myself nearly every hour). Take care I look forward to reading the advice.


Me - BS, 43
Him - WH, 45
Married - 22 years
D-Day - 05/12/2012
Trying to find me.
Gotta do this, but I'm broken - headed for divorce - 02/20
Hell if I know - 02/24
INS 07/2013 Divorcing

Posts: 226 | Registered: May 2012 | From: KY
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 6:45 AM, May 6th (Monday)

Everyone's observations, advice and analysis of the situation AND of me are incredible. So astute. I so want to be on the other side if this and see it with such sharp objectivity. I hope to some day, and hopefully not too long from today.

Spoke to my wife this morning. She said she "can't be rushed with this."

(We had agreed to ninety days of separation before we either reconcile for good or divorce.)

What she is referring to is not only giving up the OM but for her to "heal"
from the damage that I caused HER in asking her to sleep with sleep with other men over two years ago. And the damage and anger she feels is ultimately linked to her childhood sexual abuse, which I should have considered before asking her to do this.

I am not being sarcastic, just reporting her side.

She is very angry at me for my role and cannot let anything go--not the OM, not her childhood trauma (I know that is the hardest and I sympathize endlessly), not her anger at me.

I am not being trite or glib. I am not saying, "Oh, just let it go." But it seems to me that at a certain point, to move on past even the deepest conflict in life, you simply must find the strength to let go. Sacrifices must be made and scary risks taken. (I know, this applies to me as well.)

I am hanging over the edge of the cliff. Guilt is keeping me here. Yes, all she needs is more time, more time, always more time. For two years, always more time.

Advise me, urge me. Thank you, friends.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
crazynot
Member
Member # 24572
Default  Posted: 7:00 AM, May 6th (Monday)

Ok, and very gently, here is my advice. She can have all the time she needs, but not married or attached to you in any way. She must heal from this herself. It sounds like quite simply she's cake-eating, Abbondad. She's shown you and is still showing you she has feelings for another man. You have said you're done. You have two small children. Only one person's needs are being addressed here - hers. You know everyone else will be along to tell you this, don't you? Yet I totally and completely understand the way you're feeling right now. Please focus on trying to gain some of that objectivity now. It's so important. You sound LOVELY. You sound like a BRILLIANT dad. You and your kids will have a happy life because you have learned so much through this process. But DON'T give her this chance... please don't wait any longer. Cut the cord.


Me - 50
Him - 51
DDay 21 March 2009
Divorcing and delighted!

Do you want me to tell you something really subversive? Love is everything it's cracked up to be. That's why people are so cynical about it.


Posts: 839 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: UK
hummingbird8
Member
Member # 25086
Default  Posted: 7:01 AM, May 6th (Monday)

Your innocent kids can't take 90 more days of this! Forget what your wife wants or needs and please protect your children.

Posts: 452 | Registered: Aug 2009
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 7:26 AM, May 6th (Monday)

Your WW prefers the situation she is in. She has her marriage and her lover, who she goes to for emotional and physical satisfaction.
She feels justified in perpetuating this limbo you find yourself in because you 'gave her away' a few years ago and created this dysfunctional state.

She gives no timeline, only that you will have to wait until she feels emotionally strong enough to break free from the OM, which could take years, if ever.

This is plainly unsatisfactory; she feels completely justified in sitting on the fence and you won't file to force her off her pedestal.

Separation is crazy; it just gives her what she wants, freedom to develop her relationship with OM and will not mend her fractured marriage.

Tell her that you cannot go on like this. Either she lets go of her anger, comes home permanently to rebuild, or you divorce. She has openly stated to you that she will continue her affair with the OM, afterall you did give her permission to sleep with other guys and she is going to use this to punish you.
Yes anger and retribution go hand in hand and she feels that she needs to withdraw from your relationship to compensate for the hurt and rejection you supposedly caused her.

To summarize; she won't quit the affair until she feels sufficient payback has been received for your former sins. Resentment is at the heart of her attitude and you either wait until she feels 'ready' or say you've had enough and file for divorce. Its your choice.


Posts: 1689 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 7:29 AM, May 6th (Monday)

Bingo, OKnow.

Thank you.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 7:45 AM, May 6th (Monday)

Simply she is continuing to manipulate you.

Stop engaging her. You are only causing yourself more pain and grief. She is now blaming you for her choices again.

Be done with this.

Be strong, move forward, and protect yourself and your kids.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 7790 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
SBB
Member
Member # 35229
Default  Posted: 7:59 AM, May 6th (Monday)

Good god. This is like watching a train wreck.

I hope you've had enough soon Abbondad. I really do.

She is pulling all of this and you haven't even hit the real rocky part yet. When she realises you're serious.

Buckle up friend.


Buzz- The word you are searching for is 'Space-Ranger.'
Woody- The word I'm searching for, I can't say, because there are Pre-school toys here.

Posts: 5399 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Australia
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:02 AM, May 6th (Monday)

I know! I feel like this is an endless train wreck! Most of you have been here for way longer than I. Do my threads win as the longest ever?


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 8:06 AM, May 6th (Monday)

From her perspective you gave her permission to develop the affair and encouraged her to make the OM an important part of her life. Now you demand that she dismantles this satisfying relationship on your timeline not hers.

She is saying hell no, you wanted this, now you can wait until I say its over. Then she convinces herself she was greatly wronged, rejected and cast away by you when you initiated an open marriage. Hence the resentment.

She has no problem with you asking her to end the damaging affair; she just thinks she should decide when, not you.

This stubborn resentment is just power play and your children are caught in the middle. My advice hasn't changed. Get her to come home, give up the apartment and work together to put the past behind you and rebuild the marriage OR separation and divorce as quickly as it can be arranged. No in-between mind games with your children the victims.


Posts: 1689 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
realitybites
Member
Member # 6908
Default  Posted: 8:15 AM, May 6th (Monday)

The very hardest thing to wrap our brains around is our "love" for our partner and learning to let go. Learning that you are in fact enabling her to continue this behavior is hard to hear. It makes you think it is your fault....but its not your fault. But what IS your fault is continuing to allow her bad behavior while involved in her A.

Your story might be a little different then others but at the end of the day the WS still behaves the same way. We see it all the time. We all can almost predict exactly what it going to happen. Sadly it is rinse, wash and repeat.

And I don't see you guys as separated. Its just a word you both are using to make it seem like you are....but she is still popping in and out and you are still engaging her and giving her more ultimatums and trying to somehow "control" the trainwreck around you.

Just like a WS who threatens suicide...and trust me mine did it so I do not take it lightly....you again cannot control what she will do or if she falls apart. You call family or the hospital or whatever if this happens but you can't control if it will or won't happen.

I was truly separated. I had to STOP talking to him, stop begging him, stop giving him ultimatums, stop reading his emails.....I just had to STOP.

And we had kids and the kids were sad yes....but they also told me after I truly put my foot down that they could feel how much calmer the house was when the dysfunction and drama was not around. They were sad when they told me that but they needed their life to be calm.

Your kids will be sad, they will hurt but they already do. Give them some safety and calm right now. Stability.

She can't. Let her go do whatever it is she thinks she needs to do and release it. Stop worrying if she will fall apart or whatever. Maybe she will need professional help. If so then only hitting bottom will get that for her.

JMO. BTDT.


Posts: 5607 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: florida
ChoosingHope
Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 8:22 AM, May 6th (Monday)

Abbondad,
Have you spoken to your children like all the posters have advised? Have you called around to find therapists for them?

Are you seeing a mental health professional yourself?

And I'm sorry if I missed this somehow, but is your wife just making up stories about an open marriage?????


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Oct 2011
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:40 AM, May 6th (Monday)

Ok now,

You've summarized the situation perfectly. Add a dose of childhood trauma (again not being unsympathetic) and it is just a mess and a tragedy.

My timeline has not been an unreasonable one IMO. It's been two years. Two years. Two years of brutal punishment for one mistake. A horrific mistake, but a mistake by a fallible human being. I have expressed my remorse, pleadingly, sobbing, for two years as she carried on, her head cold and aloof without one expression of remorse or apology to me for her past and ongoing actions. Not one.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:47 AM, May 6th (Monday)

(Still can't figure out the "blue box" thing.)

"Abbondad,
Have you spoken to your children like all the posters have advised? Have you called around to find therapists for them?"

Yes, my son is seeing a therapist. Both children are on anti-anxiety meds.

"Are you seeing a mental health professional yourself?"

Yes, I have been in IC for many months--the same therapist as my wife. She is excellent and we have begun to delve into my issues--why I did what I did, how I can cope with a life without her, how to move on to another relationship in a fully healed and healthy way."

"And I'm sorry if I missed this somehow, but is your wife just making up stories about an open marriage?"

I doubt it. I have no reason to believe she is.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 9:15 AM, May 6th (Monday)

Abbondad, tell your kids what is happening today.

Let me explain why...you are now and likely forever will be the BAD guy in your WW's eyes. This is the fate of the some BS's that M and then eventually S and D an unremorseful WS. Everything wrong in your WW's life is YOUR fault and she will take NO responsibility for it. Is this true in reality, of course not, but your WW is not living in reality and has not for a VERY long time.

She will likely NEVER tell your kids with or without you because that would mean she would have to admit she did something wrong and broke up the family. So your kids get to suffer as Mom continues to go in and out of the house and they have no idea why. What is more likely to happen is she will wait until you are not around and tell them that YOU have done something to her to make her leave. She WILL poison them against you. Yes, she won't tell them teh truth about the S or D but she will tell them Daddy hurt Mommy and made her sad. May take a bit but it's coming especially as she sees you getting stronger. The kids will become another pawn in her manipulation game. They actually already are in a way.

She will not be capable of making rationale decisions about your M, S, or D unless it is 100% her way. So just know that she is going to say it's all your fault because that's what most of them do and go ahead and tell the kids yourself so they can get some peace.

Some WS don't have the courage to do anything just or good when it comes to their family or the BS. So instead they force our hand in everything so they can continue to say they didn't do anything wrong and wanted the M and didn't want to break up and we forced them to D and have the A and everything else. The sooner you except that your WW has indeed gone totally Anakin Skywalker over to the darkside the better. The difference is their is no redemption for her. She won't be throwing the Emperor down the exhaust chute, nope she is going to continue trying to force choke the life out of you.


And this below, if it applies to you is very important.

Without great effort made to understand why you are this way and efforts made to change to a healthy behavior and non-abusive manner within which to relate you are destined to repeat these behaviors and relationship styles.

My healing involved figuring out why I ALWAYS dated and eventually married a broken woman. I had to do some of my own digging to resolve my issues or as stated any future relationships would end up the exact same way for me. I just thought I had bad luck but I kept picking the wrong people without realizing it. So changing me helped me to recognize those patterns so I make better decisions in the future. Sending you strength.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 9:18 AM, May 6th (Monday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
D hopefully official in 7/2014

Posts: 1810 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, May 6th (Monday)

for two years as she carried on, her head cold and aloof without one expression of remorse or apology to me for her past and ongoing actions. Not one.

Then she leaves you no choice; you have expressed remorse for your 'error' asked for forgiveness and she will not cease her adultery. You should take the necessary steps to end the marriage as quickly as possible since she could literally refuse to ever cease this affair. A permanent open marriage; how convenient from her perspective, since she gets both her marriage and sexual/emotional satisfaction from her lover. A living hell for you and a decaying marriage for you both.

You have only one weapon to defend yourself, since she is oblivious to the suffering of the children, and that is divorce. If she believes you are committed to ending the marriage, you have given up and really want to move on, then she may sincerely work to repair the damage BUT I doubt she will ever show meaningful remorse since she believes she was greatly sinned against. Reconciliation without WS remorse has a high failure rate, needless to say.

If you decide to use the divorce option as a last attempt to get her to see reason, or free yourself from this sordid mess, then make the process as fast as possible; don't drag it out as you have indicated, since that will render it ineffective as a shock tactic. It will be an event far in the future which can be temporarily ignored by her.

If the divorce shock tactic works and she agrees to work on your marriage, remember you will be reconciling with a non-remorseful wife who resents being forced to reconcile. You can drag a horse to water but you can't make it drink.


Posts: 1689 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, May 6th (Monday)

(Still can't figure out the "blue box" thing.)

Cut and paste the text you want quoted into the reply box then higlight it with your cursor and click on the qoute button on the left. It should put tags around the highlighted text.

[qoute]this text would be quoted in the blue box if I spelled quote correctly. It's mispelled on purpose so you can see how it should look in the reply box. Same thing with bold and italic.[/qoute]

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 9:24 AM, May 6th (Monday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
D hopefully official in 7/2014

Posts: 1810 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 9:43 AM, May 6th (Monday)

Cut and paste the text you want quoted into the reply box then higlight it with your cursor and click on the qoute button on the left. It should put tags around the highlighted text.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 9:44 AM, May 6th (Monday)

Just testing the blue box thing. Horray, it worked. The problem was that I was not highlighting the text after pasting and before hitting "quote."

Thanks!


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 11:11 AM, May 6th (Monday)

Summarizing the facts you have given us:

1] You encouraged her to have an open marriage a few years ago.
2] She couldn't handle it; didn't realize you have to guard against emotional involvement in this type of alternative lifestyle.
3] She fell in love and became addicted to the affair with the OM. You became alarmed and wanted it to end.
4] She obviously can't and doesn't want to let go and pull away from the OM and she blames you for initiating the whole mess anyway. Some justification there.
5] She wants to continue the affair and gradually [hopefully painlessly] dissolve the relationship over time, until she is free of the emotional ties.
6] She wants you to wait patiently in the wings while this process unfolds.

The trouble is its been 2 years and she hasn't managed to achieve this goal of letting go. Will she ever?

Like most WS's the addiction is too strong and the affair is likely to continue for years yet. Maybe the OM will grow tired of her, maybe not.
All the anger, hostility, resentment and excuses are designed to stop you interfering with WW getting her 'fix'. There is no guilt because you blessed the affair in the first place and now you have changed your mind and she wants to continue.

WW doesn't have love or emotional ties with you like she does with the OM, and thats where her loyalty lies. Even her children seemed to come second.

You have to treat this as a severe addiction and all the reason in the world won't get her to cooperate. Giving her free access to the OM by separating will doom your marriage, so its either divorce or enforceable and total NC.


Posts: 1689 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
grace68
Member
Member # 28241
Default  Posted: 2:34 PM, May 6th (Monday)

But it seems to me that at a certain point, to move on past even the deepest conflict in life, you simply must find the strength to let go. Sacrifices must be made and scary risks taken. (I know, this applies to me as well.)

I am hanging over the edge of the cliff. Guilt is keeping me here. Yes, all she needs is more time, more time, always more time. For two years, always more time.

Advise me, urge me. Thank you, friends.

Take your own advice. It's time to let go of WW. The Drama Triangle cannot survive if one of the legs is removed. You've been given a lot of good advice. You know what you need to do.

Guilt is not production. If you are feeling any guilt, it should only be reserved for your children. But resolve would be a better choice than guilt, resolve that from this moment forward your will protect them and

simply must find the strength to let go. Sacrifices must be made and scary risks taken


Me - BS
Him - Doesn't Matter
Status: Divorced

Posts: 109 | Registered: Apr 2010
CheaterMagnet
Member
Member # 33581
Default  Posted: 3:19 PM, May 6th (Monday)

I've been reading this thread with growing horror. For your children.

Do you have ANY concept of what you are doing to them with this constant drama loop???? They are in IC. They are on anti-anxiety meds. And yet YOU KEEP SUBJECTING THEM TO THE CRAZY!!!!!!!

Honestly, at some point this crosses the line into child endangerment! You KNOW what the two of you are doing is toxic to your kids but YOU. KEEP. ON. DOING. IT.

YOU KIDS ARE PAYING THE PRICE!!!!!!! NOT YOU. NOT YOUR CRAZY WIFE! THE KIDS!!!

I'm sorry for shouting at you, but for the love of all that is Holy, get your shit together!!!!!

I've spent a fair amount of time in the land of crazy and did to my kids what you are doing to yours. The damage is significant. I will never forgive myself for what my kids went through because I kept selfishly choosing to subject them to the crazy train that was my marriage to their father. We've been divorced for 10 years now but there is still residual damage.

Stop. Just fucking stop. Your WW needs to get the fuck out of the house and STAY out!!! No more back and forth. NO more dramatic tearful exits with the children sobbing in the corner.

Why don't you just start beating them instead? It would be kinder than what the 2 of you are doing to them now.

I know this has been REALLY harsh. But I am sitting here bleeding for your kids. I want to slap the shit out of your wife. And then out of you.

Man the fuck up and stop the crazy for your kids! You keep USING them as an excuse to stay on the crazy train. You don't want to traumatize them. Dood! They have been SO traumatized already that getting their mother out of the house and stopping the drama would be the KINDEST thing you could do for them at this point.

Please, please, PLEASE put your kids first. They don't deserve this.


If Happy Ever After did exist, I would still be holding you like this.
All those fairly tales are full of shit.
One more fucking love song I'll be sick. ~ Maroon 5

Posts: 989 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Kailua-Kona, HI
ButterflyGirl
Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 6:10 PM, May 6th (Monday)

^^^ Ditto to everything CheaterMagnet said.

Wife has panic attack tonight and says she must leave immediately so we can "grow" in our relationship, says I am too controlling and won't let her "grow." I retort (quietly, calmly) that perhaps the reason she senses I have been controlling is that she lied and reestablished contact with the AP and I would be more inclined to "let her grow" if she were not having an affair (physical or not at this point).

Logic fails to penetrate utter self absorption and she leaves in tears as six year old begs her not to go and nine year old slams out of the house.

Please read what you wrote here again and again until the horror of what you two put your kids through really sinks in. Both of you have to stop it. NOW.


xBW~ 35
Two of the most darling sons ~ 10 and 6

Posts: 1991 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
FirstLoveGone
Member
Member # 25957
Default  Posted: 6:12 PM, May 6th (Monday)

You two are so unhealthy for each other. I think you both feed off the drama. From the start of this "open" marriage till now, you two have shown how incapable you are of being in a healthy marriage. It is too late to go back now. You need to move forward for the sake of your children and get the fuck out of Dodge.

Please, stop the drama train. Your children deserve better than this. What you are both subjecting them to verges on emotional abuse.


Posts: 1255 | Registered: Oct 2009
torn2bits
Member
Member # 28376
Default  Posted: 7:38 PM, May 6th (Monday)

I third what CheaterMagnet said!

I moved out and left my house with the kids to move into a small condo because the kids suffer, suffer and suffer more.

Your kids are on medication!
They need stability. Get tough, get strong and put them first! Get her out.


Me: 44/WH (SA): 49
M: 24 years 3 kids over 10 yrs old
EA/ PA Dec. 2009 -Divorce pending

Posts: 1240 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: Midwest
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 7:38 PM, May 6th (Monday)

Wife agreed to divorce. She is moving out this weekend and we begin mediation next week. Thank you for your care and concern. I promise, our children will no longer suffer through this or future exposure to our drama.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
torn2bits
Member
Member # 28376
Default  Posted: 7:39 PM, May 6th (Monday)

I third what CheaterMagnet said!

I moved out and left my house with the kids to move into a small condo because the kids suffer, suffer and suffer more.

Your kids are on medication!
They need stability. Get tough, get strong and put them first! Get her out.
The circus has to end! You have the power to protect your children from this horrible life. Do it.


Me: 44/WH (SA): 49
M: 24 years 3 kids over 10 yrs old
EA/ PA Dec. 2009 -Divorce pending

Posts: 1240 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: Midwest
ButterflyGirl
Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 8:37 PM, May 6th (Monday)

Thank you for your care and concern.

I'm glad you posted this as it means you realize that all the harsh words and 2x4's are because we care and are very concerned. I was lucky enough to have some people IRL put me in check when I needed it before I found SI.. I would find it hard to believe any divorcing couple was able to keep everything hidden from the children, but any time they weren't able to, they needed a 2x4..

I promise, our children will no longer suffer through this or future exposure to our drama.

That's a great promise, and I hope you keep it. Her moving out this weekend seems like too far away to me. Hell, later tonight would seem like too far away to me. There's been so much drama, and I don't know how that magically stops right now..

I really liked the analogy someone posted earlier of the bosses closing the door, making the employee anxious and nervous of what's going on. Even if you guys keep your talks confined to a bedroom or outside or whatever, and are able to keep your voices down, and not come out crying or upset, I think you will still be making the children nervous.. I have no idea how you would be able to interact with her right now without confusing them. Acting all nice seems wrong. Acting rude seems wrong. Actually, ignoring each other seems wrong too..

You had mentioned your wife's "utter self absorption" earlier. Just please don't you be utterly self-absorbed either when it comes to the children. They need to come FIRST. Before you, before your feelings, before your wife, before anything.

Good luck..


xBW~ 35
Two of the most darling sons ~ 10 and 6

Posts: 1991 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
karmahappens
Member
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 8:51 PM, May 6th (Monday)

I think this is odd AD

But it seems to me that at a certain point, to move on past even the deepest conflict in life, you simply must find the strength to let go

Why you would question her inability to move on, but you are content with your own...


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaïs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3765 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 10:59 PM, May 6th (Monday)

Brother, the children were/are a huge concern in all of this. You are also hurting, and hurting badly. Please keep posting. The entire premise of this site is surviving infidelity.

Now that the imminent crisis is (somewhat) handled, how are you doing? I'm sure you are shocked at the ease with which she has thrown everything away. You are probably surprised by your own reactions to it. Please, prepare yourself for a blizzard of emotions. It's gonna be a heck of a ride.

Remember her comment to her sister about the impending D? Please seek legal counsel prior to and mediation. Ask what the best case worst case scenarios will be. Protect yourself.

We are here to help.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2540 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
crazynot
Member
Member # 24572
Default  Posted: 2:24 AM, May 7th (Tuesday)

Abbondad, good that she's agreed divorce, but when she already has an apartment, why is she back in your house until the weekend?


Me - 50
Him - 51
DDay 21 March 2009
Divorcing and delighted!

Do you want me to tell you something really subversive? Love is everything it's cracked up to be. That's why people are so cynical about it.


Posts: 839 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: UK
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 7:05 AM, May 7th (Tuesday)

EVERYONE!!!

She is leaving tonight. No waiting. She is furious with me for "flip flopping" on separation vs. divorce so declared she cannot be in the house with me any longer.

I did not engage at all. "I understand," was all I kept repeating.

A parting irony. Before this blew up she gazed at her nails and said, "I have decided to stop my pedicures to save money for your family. You see, I do make sacrifices for our family."

I swallowed the vomit in my throat.

Thank you, friends, for everything. Even the drubbing. It gave me that final push. For those who have gotten to the point of wanting to beat the shit out of me, I understand. But when you're in the middle of storm, it is unbelievably difficult to think or act straight.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 7:27 AM, May 7th (Tuesday)

Best of luck Abbondad. You tried your level best but there is no emotional connection left, no love, no affection. Just a selfish woman who wants her freedom from your marriage to indulge in sexual and emotional relationships with other men.

Quite reasonably you will not accept her current and future lifestyle, so she turns her back on her marriage with apparently little regret. Divorce is the only option left to you; separation is a alternative that just allows her to pursue her warped lifestyle with no repercussions.

On the positive side she can resume her pedicure expense which must be considerable relief to her.


Posts: 1689 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
crazynot
Member
Member # 24572
Default  Posted: 7:53 AM, May 7th (Tuesday)

((((((Abbondad)))))) this is hard but it is right. And thank you for sharing that fantastic aside about your soon-to-be-ex's tootsies. Keep posting - you've been incredibly frank, open, honest and brave and you deserve an amazing future.


Me - 50
Him - 51
DDay 21 March 2009
Divorcing and delighted!

Do you want me to tell you something really subversive? Love is everything it's cracked up to be. That's why people are so cynical about it.


Posts: 839 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: UK
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 8:01 AM, May 7th (Tuesday)

AD I want to say Yippee for your kids and you. End the cycle of the Crazy making.
They will be at peace much much faster.

Now the trick is to not lie to them about why Mom is gone. " She is sick, in her heart and mind, and needs time away to get well. I can not help her. This is not because of you, or anything you have done. You are the best kids in the world. I will be here for you, and I will talk to you whenever you want. I love you more than life. " or something similar should be a mantra you keep repeating until they roll their eyes at you, and say daddy your silly.

You can do this, and will be a stronger man on the other side. Embrace this opportunity to grow, and change.

((((and strength)))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 7790 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
JamieMc
Member
Member # 37776
Default  Posted: 8:43 AM, May 7th (Tuesday)

Agree with tushnurse, great name BTW 100%! Speaking for a moment not as a BS but as a child of divorced parents: I prayed from the time I was 10 years old that my folks would split because of the drama and fighting! It took them until I was 19 fucking years old to split! Glad your kids will have a better childhood without the constant chaos! All the best Jamie


BS early 50's Wh also early 50's. I am Jamie, Mom to 3 great teens/young adults. My WH and I have been together more than half of our lives and married 25+. We are in MC & going to give R our best shot, hoping and praying for a better 2013!

Posts: 112 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: USA
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 10:09 AM, May 7th (Tuesday)

OK, now the anger has departed and I am a sobbing wreck. It's really happening. We are going to our first mediation meeting next week.

I know it's the right thing--the necessary thing, and it's gone on far far too long--but I am still in shock.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
velveteer
Member
Member # 30997
Default  Posted: 10:16 AM, May 7th (Tuesday)

Good luck AD - we are all behind you mate


Divorced

Posts: 861 | Registered: Jan 2011
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 10:19 AM, May 7th (Tuesday)

AD, are you staying in the house all day while you are off from work? You will still be on the coaster. May not seem like it but getting up, going out and doing something helps. It's okay to experience the feelings but go out to a museum or take the kids to one. They will enjoy it and the distractions help. Eventually they won't just be distractions but you actually going out and doing things because you want to.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 10:20 AM, May 7th (Tuesday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
D hopefully official in 7/2014

Posts: 1810 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
roughroadahead
Member
Member # 36060
Default  Posted: 10:29 AM, May 7th (Tuesday)

I agree. The sobbing will come, and it sucks a lot. It does get better. Iirc, you're a professor on sabbatical. That is a double edged sword. It is good that you aren't teaching classes and holding it together in front of everyone while it all blows up at home. However, if you were working, you'd have something else to occupy your mind. Is there something you can use your sabbatical for, like write a book or investigate a new research avenue (if you're not teach-only) or something? It is important to make an effort to have things in your life going on outside of all this crap.

I would ask the kids' ICs what the best approach to discussing this with the kids is.


BS-Me 30s
WS-Him 30s
D-Day 4/2012 (Insisted EA only)
D-Day 5/2012 (Did I say EA? Ummm..)
Numerous other TT/broken NC d-days until S 1/2013. D settled 11/2013
MOW-coworker, 40s.
2 DS and DD all w/autism

Posts: 725 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: USA
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 11:07 AM, May 7th (Tuesday)

On a more practical note, Dad.....hammer out a visitation schedule with your WW. Make it as detailed as you need to in order to limit your contact with her.
Doing this will serve to limit the upheaval in your kid's lives. "you'll be with mommy on <whatever> and here at home <whenever>" That way they aren't always wondering where they are going to be and when.

Having a consistent routine will help them a lot.


eta: I'm talking about an *informal* schedule that is in place just for now and decided on between the two of you. As a bonus to this, you'll be able to get a better gauge on how well any type of *mediation* is going to go with you two when the time comes......

[This message edited by gonnabe2016 at 11:10 AM, May 7th (Tuesday)]


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7683 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
SBB
Member
Member # 35229
Default  Posted: 11:19 AM, May 7th (Tuesday)

((Abbondad)) It does seem like it gets worse but its exhausting trying to hold the tsunami at bay like you have.

Let it wash over you brother. Cry, scream, beat the ground.

A few days after S I went for a rage walk and had to throw myself into the bushes to thrash around and scream my lungs out for a bit. It released something I had been holding on to for so many years. I can laugh when I think back on it now but at the time it was agony. Pure agony.

It gets better. This rollercoaster is different because there is not a pit of snakes and hurt and betrayal at the end - but a big, cool, blue pond of wonderful that is your future. Just got to ride this rollercoaster for a little while first.

Stay strong. Don't get sucked back in. I'm not sure whether or not someone else has posted this thread about "Hoovering" - read it over and over until it sticks.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=480828

Ironic that we start of staying for the kids yet when all is said and done we often end up leaving for the kids.

Its time.


Buzz- The word you are searching for is 'Space-Ranger.'
Woody- The word I'm searching for, I can't say, because there are Pre-school toys here.

Posts: 5399 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Australia
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 11:37 AM, May 7th (Tuesday)

Thank you for the "Hoovering" post. I predict it will come once her anger subsides, and I must steel myself and my resolve.

Sure! Maybe we will get back together again--AFTER the divorce.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 12:47 PM, May 7th (Tuesday)

I wouldn't mind betting that your wife, being fully aware that you are a sensitive caring individual, fully expects you to crack and pull back from divorcing; probably counting the days to your meltdown.

Its up to you to prove her wrong. Fail and she will lose every iota of respect for you. Succeed and go through with the divorce and she may actually try to get back in your good graces. You will have shown her that you have the toughness to persevere with this marriage ending process and move on with your life.


Posts: 1689 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 12:58 PM, May 7th (Tuesday)

Hi,

I suspect that the "hovering" already has begun--very subtly.

Been exchanging texts with my wife just hammering out details: kids schedules, how to prepare for our first mediation schedule...

She is cold and all business. (Don't worry; so was I.)

Then she texts me that she will be late tonight (getting her things) because she is taking her mom to a doctor.

Ok, I say.

Then she adds "I made an appt. with Dr. Palma in such-and-such town."

Why did she tell me this? Why would I need to know the name and address of the doctor?

Because she is assuring me that she is not going to be late for any other nefarious reason: i.e., going to see the OM. This was her pattern--she would go to him after work, lying about where she is or was going.

In other words, "See? I'm being a good girl! Now you don't really want that divorce thing, do you? I am doing what you want!"

Ah, the games children play...

I am keeping the Hoovering post with me like the Bible.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
standingonmarble
Member
Member # 31217
Default  Posted: 1:04 PM, May 7th (Tuesday)

No, she is trying to engage you in conversation, using her mother as bait, I assume you like the lady.

Just keep on with the all business mindset. She will pull the guilt card to get you to engage with her. "put this is family, how could you be like that, etc........ I sent you some good links in PM. I hope you are reading thru them to see how they play the game. That's all it is now a game to her. Much like a cat with a mouse. They play with it before they go in for the kill.

Do not trust her one bit. She lost that privilege. She has done nothing to warrant it.


At one time he was a man standing on marbles. Now I am a woman standing on marble.....

We are done fighting with each other and decide to fight FOR each other.


Posts: 737 | Registered: Feb 2011
alphakitte
Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 1:36 PM, May 7th (Tuesday)

"I made an appt. with Dr. Palma in such-and-such town."

Why did she tell me this? Why would I need to know the name and address of the doctor?

Why, you ask? It's hoovering. Do not respond. You do not want to give her "narcissistic source" or attention! Only respond to financial and kid info!


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 344 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
CheaterMagnet
Member
Member # 33581
Default  Posted: 2:48 PM, May 7th (Tuesday)

(((((HUGS)))))

I'm very sorry I had to smack you with that 2x4, but honestly I am so worried about your poor kids. I suspect there will be more drama and crazy before this is all over.

I'm worried about you too. She is still calling the shots with you. She is leaving because of your "flip flopping," not because you threw her out. She is now trying to hoover you back into the drama circle.

Stand your ground. Go dark if you have to. I predict at least one more melodramatic scene in front of the children before she actually leaves for good. This is a very damaged woman here.

I'm also concerned that you seem to still cling to that small shred of hope that you two will work out. Please try to let that go. I know how hard it is, but as long as you keep clinging to it (regardless of how tiny it is), you leave yourself vulnerable to the crazy. Again, I ask you to trust me. I've lived this and it isn't pretty. I ended up in the looney bin more than once.

The pain is very real and debilitating. Please try to eat and drink and sleep. See your doc for meds if you need them. There is no shame.

Post here often. We do care. Very much. We will walk with you through this shit storm. You aren't alone.

You. Can. Do. This.


If Happy Ever After did exist, I would still be holding you like this.
All those fairly tales are full of shit.
One more fucking love song I'll be sick. ~ Maroon 5

Posts: 989 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Kailua-Kona, HI
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 4:10 PM, May 7th (Tuesday)

Whats a distinct possibility is that as the date of the divorce decree approaches, she will grandly announce that she has decided to go NC with the OM and give her marriage another chance, [she may or may not be totally finished with OM].

What will you do then? Proceed with the divorce in any case, or reconcile?which may put you back in the same position you are in now, if she reneges on the decision to go NC.

You need to be prepared for this event which is likely to happen in the near future. If it were me I might give reconciliation a chance, but with the divorce process still ongoing. No way would I halt divorce with this woman. Too selfish and deceitful by half. I would need 100% proof that the OM was out of her life before I cancelled proceedings.

Have you given this any thought?


Posts: 1689 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 4:30 PM, May 7th (Tuesday)

Whats a distinct possibility is that as the date of the divorce decree approaches, she will grandly announce that she has decided to go NC with the OM and give her marriage another chance, [she may or may not be totally finished with OM].
What will you do then? Proceed with the divorce in any case, or reconcile?

I absolutely have thought about this all day; in fact I expect this will happen. After the anger and crazy subside I will not be surprised if she does this.

I spoke with our mediator. We had to move the date of the first meeting up to May 20. The whole process could take from six to eight weeks.

If she does, my plan is to say no--and keep proceeding with the divorce. And then watch her actions. If she says screw you, well then, no loss. I say nothing and keep going.

If I see that she has essentially had a brain transplant--in other words she becomes, miraculously, the wife she is supposed to be in this situation (utterly believably remorseful, moves heaven and earth to win me back, including radical actions like calling him in my presence to tell him to fuck off and never contact her again, tells me to track her every move, and takes full responsibility every day and tells me so every day)...

...For months prior to the divorce being final, then I would THINK about it, but still never tell her.

Note: this would require that she becomes someone else. And that won't happen.

So my answer: it doesn't really matter since the above actions will not occur.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
SBB
Member
Member # 35229
Default  Posted: 5:23 PM, May 7th (Tuesday)

Absolutely the right thing to do.

There is no venom in True Remorse. Whether in R or S/D. I would bet my right arm you'll see venom. Then you'll know its regret, not true remorse.

Stay strong friend. Ignore anything she says that is not directly kids/finances related. No personal stuff.

NC = No New Hurts.

Think of what you overcame and what you did just for the possibility of R. She's not DOING any of it. Not one little bit. All you're seeing is regret. She doesn't want things to change. Nice husband and family at home and the single girls life too.

Fuck.That.Shit. You deserve better. We all do.


Buzz- The word you are searching for is 'Space-Ranger.'
Woody- The word I'm searching for, I can't say, because there are Pre-school toys here.

Posts: 5399 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Australia
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 5:35 PM, May 7th (Tuesday)

Wife called, a total wreck. Voice trembling, she asked, "So this is really happening? Is this what's happening?"

"Yes," I simply said.

She hung up.

Steady, Abbondad, steady...


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 5:40 PM, May 7th (Tuesday)

Strength brother. Is there someone IRL you can call to come over? Have a VAR handy. She sounds like she's cycling rapidly. Her sister will probably try to build her up and piss her off, then come over.

Watch your back


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2540 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 7:26 PM, May 7th (Tuesday)

Dad, if the kids are with you: Turn your phone off and make sure all of your doors are locked.....

And 54's suggestion to have a friend (a male one) come over is a very good one....


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7683 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 7:54 PM, May 7th (Tuesday)

Things aren't that dramatic... She is playing with the kids and holding back tears. Refuses to speak to or look at me. I'm just backing off and letting the mood be what it is. I don't want any sturm and drang right now.

[This message edited by Abbondad at 7:55 PM, May 7th (Tuesday)]


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 8:02 PM, May 7th (Tuesday)

I thought she was leaving tonight?


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7683 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
SBB
Member
Member # 35229
Default  Posted: 10:28 PM, May 7th (Tuesday)

You need a VAR or someone around friend. Several BH here and IRL have been subjected to false allegations of violence.

Don't give her a chance to set you up. IMO she is just the type to pull that shit.

Stay strong. You won't regret it. Best to fast track to the crazy shit - you were going there anyway, speeding it up will get it over and done with + will help you detach.

And believe me - sometime soon you will have seen enough and been through enough that there is NOTHING she could possibly do to convince you to consider R. Not a single thing. You won't be tortured by or paralysed by these last little pangs of hope.

It's amazing to watch them behave directly to script. I was shocked when I realised the sad clown was tryingon exactly what every other WS was trying on.


Buzz- The word you are searching for is 'Space-Ranger.'
Woody- The word I'm searching for, I can't say, because there are Pre-school toys here.

Posts: 5399 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Australia
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 9:52 AM, May 8th (Wednesday)

Good job on staying the course. If your WW was serious about R then she can still do the work after D. If she was serious and was going to do the work then she would do so whether you were M or D. As strongbutbroken said you will likely be past the point of no return and won't want her back if she ever does wake up. Stay strong man, you are doing fine!


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
D hopefully official in 7/2014

Posts: 1810 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 12:09 PM, May 8th (Wednesday)

just checking on you brother, a little worried knowing that she was there last night.

are you okay?


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2540 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 12:59 PM, May 8th (Wednesday)

Thank you, i am fine. Quick update on the run.

Everything is ok. She has not left yet. I know, maybe a contradiction in terms. But Things have calmed down. Kids happy, she and I are behaving in front of them. MC tomorrow to discuss how to tell kids.

Nothing's changed. Holding firm. She's coming at me with everything's she's got from the self pity stage. The anger stage having been dropped for now.

She Went to bed angry then woke me at 2:00 AM in tears. I don't want to lose you. I am dead inside. I feel like I am dying. I am terrified. Tried to lure me into a discussion of "Us." I did not engage. I was politely comforting but distant.

Everything is still a go. I have not caved. She sees it and is very alarmed.

[This message edited by Abbondad at 1:04 PM, May 8th (Wednesday)]


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
LonelyHusband
Member
Member # 34145
Default  Posted: 1:25 PM, May 8th (Wednesday)

Abandondad

You thanked everyone for giving you the strength to seperate from this toxic woman, but you havent't seperated.

You thanked everyone for giving you the final kick you need to start the divorce, but have you done that - because my guess is you haven't. you don't need to discuss how to tell the kids first, or work out the details. You just need to file if that is your decision. Otherwise you are simply avoiding scary decisions.

You haven't thrown her out. Are you still sleeping in the same bed? trying to get a feel for what you have actually changed?

I'm concerned that given enough time you are going to see hope here and just fall for it. She will keep changing strategies until something works.

why are you comforting her. When I was in Chicago this year I was approached late at night by a young man who asked me the time, and then revealed that he wanted to show me his shiny new automatic knife in addition to kindly offering to carry my wallet and laptop for me. After a brief and fruitless discussion I kicked him so hard I'm surprised his testicles didn't come out of his ears and then relieved him off his knife so he could look for his missing gonads. I didn't stop to comfort him. I just put my new knife in my pocket and walked away. When people abuse you and abuse your trust, you cut contact with them so they cannot hurt you any further.

I loved my wife desperately, but I had to recognise in the end that being with her was killing me. The day I filed was the best day in the whole process. I felt free, alive. I had hope for the first time. We reconciled later. I sincerely hope you wil come on here and correct me but I'm getting the feeling you are saying what WE want to hear, but have actually taken no truly decisive action. If that's true, then just say so - we're not here to shout or point fingers at you. We're here to help.

[This message edited by LonelyHusband at 1:35 PM, May 8th (Wednesday)]


BS ( me) 41
fWS (OktoberMest) 35
D day #1 29/10/2011, D day #2 15/112011, D day #3 15/03/2012
Reconciling.
“It’s better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all”, is inadequate consolation when you vacuum up a child's hamster'

Posts: 1290 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: UK
hobbeskat
Member
Member # 38805
Default  Posted: 1:32 PM, May 8th (Wednesday)

I'm sorry but I second this. Why is she still there?

Posts: 306 | Registered: Mar 2013
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 2:03 PM, May 8th (Wednesday)

Friends,

All I can say for now is that

We are not fighting or sobbing or having hushed conversations in front of the kids. I cannot "throw her out." I am not engaging her and this has disarmed the tension in the house.

As far as taking steps toward divorce, as I said before, we have scheduled our first mediation session for the week after next. It is proceeding. I am not "filing" as we are going through a mediated divorce and the process is quite different.

Tomorrow evening we are going to our MC to update her and to consult on when and what to tell the kids. At that time I plan to also discuss my wife's behavior. This is I believe important--a professional buffer rather than confronting my wife in the home or worse, in front of the kids.

I'm sorry if this is aggravating or disappointing to anyone. I am doing the best I can.

Thank you, everyone.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
standingonmarble
Member
Member # 31217
Default  Posted: 3:52 PM, May 8th (Wednesday)

Every situation is just a little different. I think we could all agree we would not want to in your shoes, as we know the pain all to well. We just want to see you have some relief from it.

Don't hide, minimize or otherwise mislead the therapist in her behavior. They need to know what she has been doing. She needs the accountability coming from a professional.


At one time he was a man standing on marbles. Now I am a woman standing on marble.....

We are done fighting with each other and decide to fight FOR each other.


Posts: 737 | Registered: Feb 2011
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 7:52 PM, May 8th (Wednesday)

Well, if I, the perpetually hopeful fool, held out any distant hope that she would do the right thing on her own, without me pleading or prodding, with the reality of divorce looming, it is gone now.

She called from work and said she needed to "calm down." Two hours later she calls. I ask her if she felt better. Yes she said.

"Did you go to him?" I ask. Long pause.

"I spoke to him, yes. Among other people." What a fucking pitiful lie.

It escalated into her saying--brace yourselves--"See? This is why it won't work. You can't trust me. This is an attack on me. An unwarranted attack."

And she hung up.

I want to tell the kids after our therapists appointment and then I want her out of the house, and I wish, out of my life. Unfortunately I will have to see this stranger's face for years to come.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
ProbableIceCream
Member
Member # 37468
Default  Posted: 8:16 PM, May 8th (Wednesday)

You can't argue with crazy. She has a desperate need for this other guy. Let her have him.


Me: born 1982.
DD: born 2006 (I have abt 80% custody).
My D-Day was April 2012. Divorced Jul 2013.

Posts: 676 | Registered: Nov 2012
IrishLass518
Member
Member # 34373
Default  Posted: 8:18 PM, May 8th (Wednesday)

Abbondad, let go. She is making HER choices not caring one iota how they effect you or your children. Time to make YOUR choices and not be concerned if she likes them or not. I have been in your shoes, I really HATE those shoes. I did realize this, I would no longer help my xWH live in lies. We would all live in truth and that meant my kids would see who and what he chose over the beautiful family we had. You cannot protect her from herself and her choices. You can only protect you and the kids from being hurt by her choices from now forward.


Me: 45 BS Divorced
Him: 45 Married OW
DDay: 07/04/2008
Divorced: 06/15/2011
5 kids: IrishLass 27,IrishLad 25, IrishLass 22, IrishLad 21 and IrishLad 12
"You can't run from trouble..there ain't no place that far"

Posts: 1674 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: WA
CheaterMagnet
Member
Member # 33581
Default  Posted: 9:36 PM, May 8th (Wednesday)

Things aren't that dramatic... She is playing with the kids and holding back tears. Refuses to speak to or look at me. I'm just backing off and letting the mood be what it is.

Do you honestly think your kids aren't picking up on this????? If they were toddlers I could agree with you. But at the ages you specified and with what you have already told us about them, I call bullshit.

Your kids are noticing EVERYTHING right now. And they are internalizing it. And it won't be good when it comes out.

Please get her out of there. You're still on the crazy train. You're just in the Quiet Car.


If Happy Ever After did exist, I would still be holding you like this.
All those fairly tales are full of shit.
One more fucking love song I'll be sick. ~ Maroon 5

Posts: 989 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Kailua-Kona, HI
JamieMc
Member
Member # 37776
Exclaimation  Posted: 11:35 PM, May 8th (Wednesday)

Dad, I wouldn't worry about aggravating or disappointing S.I., not that I am in any way entitled to speak for this fine group of people, just my humble opinion. Concern yourself with your children's welfare, along with your own peace of mind. At the end of all of this, however your marriage resolves, the vast majority of this support group will be nameless, faceless user names, but your kiddos only get one Dad! I am not in any way diminishing the outpouring of support you have received from S.I., as I have as well. I am just swinging a gentle 2x4 in the hope that you will remember the little ones that will be forever in your life. I posted before that I prayed for YEARS that my Mom& Dad would split because it was so stressful living in that environment. My childhood would have been sooo much better if they had separated sooner. Feel free to PM if I can help in any way. All the best Jamie


BS early 50's Wh also early 50's. I am Jamie, Mom to 3 great teens/young adults. My WH and I have been together more than half of our lives and married 25+. We are in MC & going to give R our best shot, hoping and praying for a better 2013!

Posts: 112 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: USA
Grace and Flowers
Member
Member # 34431
Default  Posted: 11:39 PM, May 8th (Wednesday)

Something doesn't smell right, here. Just my two cents. AD....you've had the benefit of tons of advice....all pretty much the same. You have repeatedly replied to everyone with lots of words, but little action.

But then I see you posting on another thread asking if you can delete all your posts, that you're afraid you've said too much, that you're scared it will be used against you. And then you keep on going, over and over the same stuff.

Don't get me wrong. I'm on your side, and especially hoping that those kids can somehow get some help with healing. We ALL understand how difficult this all is. But like LH said....you seem to just keep finding excuses to prolong the misery. And hey....some of us do that. But for gods sake, please wake up, just enough, to do what is right for those kids. CM is right...the kids are absorbing ALL OF THE DRAMA.

It sounds to me like you are still somehow being nourished by the drama...that the push and pull of power between you and your WW is addictive in some way. I can only continue to add my voice to others in saying STOP. Please, just stop long enough to protect your children. Your WW has shown you she won't. Please, step up and be the parent they need. Now.

And what if, for some reason, your appt with the MC is cancelled? How much longer will you wait to "tell the kids"? There are THOUSANDS of us who did NOT "tell the kids" jointly with our WS. Who didn't wait for some point in the future for someone to tell us how to do it. We just did it. And, you've had a whole chorus of voices here advising you on how to do it.

I hope it gets done today.


I'm Happy, not Sad!

Posts: 1148 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: US
Grace and Flowers
Member
Member # 34431
Default  Posted: 11:40 PM, May 8th (Wednesday)

Oops, sorry...double post.

[This message edited by SadMad2012 at 11:41 PM, May 8th (Wednesday)]


I'm Happy, not Sad!

Posts: 1148 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: US
Jrazz
Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 11:57 PM, May 8th (Wednesday)

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Also...

You can't argue with crazy

There's no more excuses left for what she's doing. Dude, she admitted that she called/saw him and has the cojones to berate your trust of her in the same breath?!?!?!

Get that 50 foot pole out, man. There's nothing left regarding her but hurt for you and the kids.


We are what we repeatedly do, excellence, then is not an act but a habit. - Aristotle

Posts: 16323 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
LonelyHusband
Member
Member # 34145
Default  Posted: 1:24 AM, May 9th (Thursday)

Your story is that you have a wife who is emotionally abusing you, emotionally abusing your kids. She is actively in an affair and happily telling you, and you are talking about mediation, and strategies for telling the kids. you are living in the same house and, I suspect, sleeping in the same bed. You are posting pretty much daily that this time you are done, this time there is nothing left. You've had dozens of people write hundreds of posts across several threads in different forums with the same advice, which you have acknowledged. But then you go right back to talking with her and post on here as if you are surprised. This goes beyond codependency and into the realms of head-scratching and chin stroking.

AD I'm done with your threads. I wish you the best of luck, but something doesn't sit right with me either and I don't want to contribute to the drama any more. I can't work out if we are not seeing the whole picture here or whether you are actually getting off on the drama, but either way I'm sorry I couldn't help you.

LH

[This message edited by LonelyHusband at 2:17 AM, May 9th (Thursday)]


BS ( me) 41
fWS (OktoberMest) 35
D day #1 29/10/2011, D day #2 15/112011, D day #3 15/03/2012
Reconciling.
“It’s better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all”, is inadequate consolation when you vacuum up a child's hamster'

Posts: 1290 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: UK
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 6:41 AM, May 9th (Thursday)

Everyone--and especially Lonelyhusband, whose 2x4s have gotten me this far, farther than I actually thought I would come, to a real appointment with a divorce mediator--please do not despair of me and walk away.

If it is too agonizing to hear how slowly this is going or the latest betrayal and my seeming inaction, I understand. Maybe I should hold off on posting until the divorce is final, or at least firmly underway.

I am quite alone in all this, but for your support (and my therapist's). I have friends IRL of course, but none particularly close and certainly none with the understanding and wisdom that comes from bitter shared experience in this matter. My family is deceased but for an estranged brother.

I don't say this for self-pity, just to express my dependence on all of you--a very special fraternity of pain and sage words. I am grieving the death-throes of what I thought had been a wonderful marriage and it is excruciating. I hope you will continue to bear with me and see me through--even as I stumble and stagger--to the New Beginnings forum.

Thank you for everything.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
crazynot
Member
Member # 24572
Default  Posted: 6:56 AM, May 9th (Thursday)

Don't stop posting, and everyone here wishes only the best for you. It's just that so many of us have been exactly where you are - the struggling to let go, to believe that someone really isn't who you thought they were, grieving for the family life you thought you were going to have... You are at a really rough part of the road, but it will smoothen out, it really will, and you will create a new reality with your kids that will be better than you can imagine now. It's just that I can see you constantly stepping back from that bridge into your new life, and back into the crazy world of your wife's bad choices. Your life is your life, Abbondad, and even if you make some of us bang our heads against a metaphorical wall in frustration, the SI community will be here for you, as it was for me when I was there.


Me - 50
Him - 51
DDay 21 March 2009
Divorcing and delighted!

Do you want me to tell you something really subversive? Love is everything it's cracked up to be. That's why people are so cynical about it.


Posts: 839 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: UK
What2do
Member
Member # 497
Default  Posted: 8:00 AM, May 9th (Thursday)

I believe everyone has to handle their own personal situation their way and on their own timeline.

Since when did the advice we give have to be followed on our timeline. When we first came here did we ignore our inner instincts, and just do what someone on the internet advised is to do?

Please everyone, remember we are here to support each other, not dictate actions to each other. To give opinions, and yes, recommendations. However, each individual, has to follow their own path as to what is right for them at that time.


Character is what you do when no one is watching.
There is the right path and the easy path - which one will you take?

Posts: 1277 | Registered: Sep 2002
myalterego
Member
Member # 32756
Default  Posted: 12:56 PM, May 9th (Thursday)

Abbondad, I know it is tough to tell the kids and you are waiting for "the right time".

Honestly, they know.

When you actually come out and tell them, although they will be sad for the life that no longer is (as you were), they will be relieved. Because finally, they can put a name to all the craziness that has been going on lately. They know there is tension, that mom is/is not/is moving out, that things are different. NOT telling them isn't fair - they deserve the right to know what is going on with their family.

Good luck. I hope you find the way to approach this subject, but I think you should do it sooner rather than later. Ironically, one of the times that I find is a really good place to "talk" to kids is in the car - because we are all there, but we don't have to make eye contact and get the hyperintensive "what is the reaction" look and someone can take a break and look out the window for a bit. If it is really bad, pull over for hugs.

Seriously, be fair to the kids... they know there is a cancer - just tell them what the name of the cancer in the house is.


Posts: 132 | Registered: Jul 2011
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 11:20 AM, May 11th (Saturday)

Friends,

We are telling the kids tonight and she is movig out. Please, no 2x4s. I am in agony. I just need reassurance yet again that this is the right, the only way with a completely remorseless person who refuses to make one sacrifice for her marriage and family even as she professes her deep love for me.

This sounds so pathetic and childish, but tell me again what everyone here reiterates constantly--that I will survive, that I will thrive and find happiness and love and strength. That I fought long and hard for my family--two years--and there is nothing else I could possibly have done.

Thank you so much.

David


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
5yrsout
Member
Member # 32109
Default  Posted: 11:53 AM, May 11th (Saturday)

(((((Hugs!!))))

Be strong. You need to do this. YOU DO NOT HAVE A CHOICE.

I know you want to continue to hold out hope - and who am I to bash that - but, please PROTECT your children first.

If your wife is capable of fixing her issues, she can do so while the children are safely cared for by you - one sane parent, please.

YOU WILL SURVIVE.

Use your love for your children and concern for THEIR well-being to get you through.

I know it is hard to detach. Let. Go.

Put your energy into your children. CARE ABOUT THEIR FEELINGS ONLY. Ignore your own and your wife for today.

GOOD LUCK.
You are doing the ABSOLUTE only thing you can in this horrific situation. We know you want a different outcome. Of course you do. But, you need to separate and let your wife begin to heal (if she can) on HER OWN.

HUGS. HUGS. HUGS.
Focus on your children right now and for the foreseeable future. THEY will get you through this. Caring for THEIR needs is the ONLY thing you need to do right now.


Now 7 Yrs Out - my prince is a frog
DD 5/15/2006

Posts: 774 | Registered: May 2011
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 11:54 AM, May 11th (Saturday)

Ad. No 2x4 here but a thank you for your kids. You will feel better when te drama is out of your home. But I suspect that it has gone on so long that you may feel weird not having it. When you feel that need or tug to get drawn back in or to contact her do something else go for a run, play with the kids have them help you cook a meal. Bond with them. This will give you strength and peace.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 7790 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 12:38 PM, May 11th (Saturday)

that I will survive, that I will thrive and find happiness and love and strength. That I fought long and hard for my family--two years--and there is nothing else I could possibly have done.

You will survive.
You will thrive.
You will find happiness.
You will find strength.
And when you are ready, you will find love. You already 'have' love in the form of your kids. Let that be enough for now.

There is nothing else that you can do. You have given her patience, space, and time. You can't have an authentic and real marriage by yourself.

It's okay to let go now.....you will be alright.
{{{hugs}}}


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7683 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 1:31 PM, May 11th (Saturday)

She is balking now that it is dawning on her that I am serious--I am done.

"I don't feel prepared to tell the children."

(I am. She won't, ever.)

"I don't have anything at the apartment yet."

(She's got quite enough for now--it's furnished. Just take some clothes for now. Please just go.)

"Why can't we tell them Mommy and Daddy 'need a break'"?

(Um, because I don't want a break. This is not a break. This is a divorce. No more breaks for us or for you. And we are not going to lie to our children and give them false hope.)

"I feel rushed."

(Two years. I'd say we've been taking our time.)

And then, after Poor Little Girl melts away, its intended effect having failed, the Face of the Stranger makes its expected appearance: cold, resentful. I silently thank her for that. It gives me an extra jolt of resolve.

Friends, I'm sorry, but I am not going to tell the kids myself, without her. If she wants, I can just tell her with her there if she can't handle it. They need to know that Mommy is not abandoning them (yeah, I know), and we must maintain good relations for the children. She will be resentful of me for closing the bakery before she is "ready," but I need as little resentment as possible.

I hope you can understand that I am still doing the best I can and in the right direction.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
crazynot
Member
Member # 24572
Default  Posted: 1:32 PM, May 11th (Saturday)

You will survive and this pain will fade. You will be happy again, and in the meantime you and your kids will have much-needed calm. Please make this happen. We are all here for you.


Me - 50
Him - 51
DDay 21 March 2009
Divorcing and delighted!

Do you want me to tell you something really subversive? Love is everything it's cracked up to be. That's why people are so cynical about it.


Posts: 839 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: UK
woundedwidow
Member
Member # 36869
Default  Posted: 2:43 PM, May 11th (Saturday)

Abbondad, I have never responded to this thread before, but have followed it here since you first started posting. I believe you are setting yourself and your children up for a scene of incredible emotional drama if you tell them of the impending divorce with your WW just "there". Do you honestly believe that she will just sit there and nod emotionlessly while you tell the children that the two of you are divorcing? Or will she, in ALL likelihood, sit there with tears streaming down her face, thereby making YOU look like the "bad" person who is forcing her to leave THEM and their home. Also, it seems to me that the simple logistics of having to sit with the both of you, with your WW being in a HIGHLY emotional state, will be pure emotional torture for the children. This is one time when you really have to take one for the team (the kids and you) and tell them in a neutral, calm setting and voice how things are going to be. YOU can reassure them that their Mommy is NOT abandoning them; her actions in the future will then back that up or not. But if you take your proposed action, I really think you will be creating an emotionally harmful situation for your kids. I apologize it that seems like a 2 X 4, but your WW has already shown that HER self-entitlement pretty much come first, and I really feel that she may throw YOU under the bus in front of the kids. And as far as minimizing her resentment, the only way you can do that is to give in to her every wish; any other choice will lead to her resenting you, as she has already demonstrated.


Be careful what you wish for the most - you may get it.

Posts: 363 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: VA
5yrsout
Member
Member # 32109
Default  Posted: 3:49 PM, May 11th (Saturday)

Have to agree with this.


At the risk of prolinging the damage, maybe cinsider telling the kids with a Counselor present. Sorry cant remember if you have them in ic yet.

Hugs! Please update as you can...


Now 7 Yrs Out - my prince is a frog
DD 5/15/2006

Posts: 774 | Registered: May 2011
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 5:47 PM, May 11th (Saturday)

It is hard while you are in the middle of this part...to see the future. But, it is there. You just have to step into it and let the past go.

You are still engaging with her. The only response to any question at this point is:

I am telling the children tomorrow at 8am. Here is what I am going to say. "XXXXX".

Then answer nothing else and engage in no other discussion. She is manipulating you, using the old techniques that served her well in the past.

As you are telling the kids...BE PREPARED it will not go as you plan, and BE PREPARED to counteract her behavior. You may have to ask her to leave, or you need to pick the kids up and go drive, leaving her there. It may get ugly.

My WS started bawling like a child and just...it was ridiculous. I had to keep tapping on the table to try and get his attention so he would stop crying. It was short and sweet, my kids were 7 and 5 at the time, my older one asked a few questions, and that was it. WS was still crying, and I had already planned to take the kids away for the weekend (so he could move without them seeing), so 10 minutes later we hopped in the car. It worked great. WS sat there crying, in shock, and the kids and I left.

Friends of mine called and said that WS ended up at their house that night, still really upset and kept saying, "I can't believe what I have done to my kids." She said, "Never once did he mention what he did to you, cmego." That sealed it for me.

We all know how tough it is, Seriously, we have all been right where you are, especially if we have young children.

Believe it or not, things will begin to get easier now. Once you take the step, it will get easier.


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4008 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Virginia
ExposedNiblet
Member
Member # 30803
Default  Posted: 6:47 PM, May 11th (Saturday)

One of the best things I did for my kids was telling them about the impending divorce alone.

It was a very calm discussion. I gave them the age-appropriate version of what had happened and what was going to happen in the future. They asked questions, I answered them as best I could. There were no tears at all. Afterwards, we went for ice cream.

Guaranteed, things would not have gone so smoothly had ex-husband been present. At the very least, there would have been an endless flood of tears and sobbing, so characteristic of those 'early days'. At most, there would have been massive amounts of blame-shifting and fog-talk. Kids don't need any part of that.

I made the decision to tell the kids on my own because ultimately, their father would have lied to them (either outright or by omission), and they were entitled to the truth.

Your kids are entitled to the truth too, Abbondad.

They won't get it with your STBX there.

My friend, you have my heartfelt sympathy during this incredibly difficult time in your life - but it does get better. It really does.

You will survive this, and so will your kids.

Hang in there.


...Nibs


Divorced
Me ($39.95 plus S & H)
DS1(17), DS2(15)

Enjoying this chapter in my life.
Learning that being alone does not mean being lonely.
Discovering that where I've been is not as important as where I'm going.


Posts: 355 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Right Here, Canada
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 7:00 PM, May 11th (Saturday)

It took you time to get to a point where you could see her manipulations when it pertained directly to you. You are still missing the piece where she uses the kids to pull your strings as well.

It won't end until you end it. She isn't going to do it. She is not going to tell the kids and she is going to come up with every excuse in the book not to leave yet. She is going to drag this out FOREVER. If you don't get her out and tell the kids the drama and craziness will not end. You do realize that even if you tell them together it WILL be YOUR fault. Everything is already your fault in her mind. Ask anyone around her that has dealt with an unremorseful WS. So go ahead and tell the kids that Mommy is moving out. She will get pissed but she is going to get pissed anyway. Once she is gone then the next phase is making you out to be the bad guy if she hasn't already started that. Just know it's coming and live your life. You and your children can start to heal once she is out. Whether she heals or not is on her. The only people that need to know the truth about who is or who isn't the bad guy are your kids and they figure that out by you being honest with them and being stable for them.

You may not be able to do it now but you will eventually. The craziness will reach a level where you can't take it anymore. Just like you got to a point where you can recognize her patterns with you. You will get to a point where you see it with the kids and you will do it then because she won't.

I will be 2 yrs out from Dday and I took the LOOOOOOOONG way to healing and getting myself out of this mess. It is so worth it and I am not trying to be a dick when I say this but

if I had listened to the posters on SI when I arrived here in May of 2011 I would have been free from this crapstorm today. We/They are RIGHT! You will survive!

Instead I am tied legally to this woman for another year until the D is final. So listen and know that you WILL be okay. I am living proof of that and so are the other posters on the board. Jump off the cliff so you can see it's not a cliff but a curb. You can do this.


Again I am not trying to be a dick but think about what tomorrow is...yep it's Mother's Day. If she had any shred of remorse in her or even thought about anyone other than herself she would have realized that her antics are potentially leaving a permanent scar on the kids. Just think about what your kids will possibly associate with Mother's Day from now on. You will be okay man just get her out.

You asked for reassurances. I bet most of the people that give you 2X4's and respond repeatedly ARE the people that WERE YOU. We took the long way which is why we are pleading with you to end it because we KNOW it gets better and we know if you don't end it what comes next. As always man I wish you the best do what you can when you can. You have come very far since you first started posting just keep moving forward because the past is gone.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
D hopefully official in 7/2014

Posts: 1810 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
standingonmarble
Member
Member # 31217
Default  Posted: 7:23 PM, May 11th (Saturday)

Me again

As much as you would like this to play out like want, that would have in include another rational adult at the the table. There isn't one. She just showed you her dark side again. She will play the victim card during this to "win" the children and begin her Parent alienation game.

Heed the above advice to do this solo. I think there is a lot of wisdom learned the hard way in all of it.


At one time he was a man standing on marbles. Now I am a woman standing on marble.....

We are done fighting with each other and decide to fight FOR each other.


Posts: 737 | Registered: Feb 2011
SBB
Member
Member # 35229
Default  Posted: 7:51 PM, May 11th (Saturday)

I told my children on my own. Do you honestly think they haven't noticed anything.

How much more uncertainty and trauma will you put them through?

You are worrying about her feelings still. Worry about theirs.

Let this drama go. Let her go dude. Seriously.


Buzz- The word you are searching for is 'Space-Ranger.'
Woody- The word I'm searching for, I can't say, because there are Pre-school toys here.

Posts: 5399 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Australia
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 8:07 PM, May 11th (Saturday)

Given how the vast majority of wives greatly value their families and the security of the marriage I am frankly puzzled why your wife won't let go of the OM.

She professes a deep love for you and even if she also felt that way for the OM equally, the added intense love for the children would make this a no-brainer.

The equation makes no sense; can you answer why she is attached to the OM to the extent she harms her children and destroys her marriage? It makes no sense. If she despised you and couldn't tolerate living with you I could understand her attitude.

When you ask her why can't you turn your back on the OM what is her answer? Is it a deeper love , sex or emotional addiction?

You need to take a harder attitude including telling the children and blaming her for the breakup. Time to bring out the big guns if you wish to jolt some common sense back into her.
if you don't toughen up pretty soon you will invite even more misery.


Posts: 1689 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Grace and Flowers
Member
Member # 34431
Default  Posted: 9:32 PM, May 11th (Saturday)

7years' post reminded me that my WXH chose FATHER'S DAY last year to finally move his big stuff out of the house, with friends (furniture, etc., he'd been gone for a while). Yep, FATHER'S Day.

Just as your WW is choosing to move out on Mother's Day weekend.

When will you stop giving her ANY consideration, and instead pour every ounce of your energy into your kids? She is gone...in the fog...probably forever.

Yes, you are grieving, and will continue to grieve. But set aside the drama with her and reassure your kids. Please. They don't deserve this continued torture of not knowing whats going on. Good luck.


I'm Happy, not Sad!

Posts: 1148 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: US
hobbeskat
Member
Member # 38805
Default  Posted: 4:33 AM, May 13th (Monday)

How did the weekend go, Abbondad?

Posts: 306 | Registered: Mar 2013
IrishLass518
Member
Member # 34373
Default  Posted: 10:40 AM, May 13th (Monday)

Abbondad, I respect your right to do this the way you see fit for you and your kids. However, I too made the choice to tell our kids "together". He sat there silent, taking in the tears and pain of our children and then said the worst thing he could ever say to them, "After a while, we will give Mommy a coming home party. I promise you all Mommy will come home." The next weekend I moved to my parents house (he refused to move from the marital home and I could not take the cake eating anymore) and he threw a party at our marital home with the OW. I never again had hm present when I spoke to my children. He lied and tried to be the "good guy" right there to all of us. It was horrible for my children, hearing this promise and then having OW staying the night in their home, in their mommy's home. It is not by any means my proudest moment in all of this.


Me: 45 BS Divorced
Him: 45 Married OW
DDay: 07/04/2008
Divorced: 06/15/2011
5 kids: IrishLass 27,IrishLad 25, IrishLass 22, IrishLad 21 and IrishLad 12
"You can't run from trouble..there ain't no place that far"

Posts: 1674 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: WA
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 5:46 PM, May 13th (Monday)

Hi, Friends,

I am back again, at the risk of the crowd closing in on me with torches and pitchforks. (But I am hoping for some support and encouragement as well, of course.)

I will cut to the chase. Wife still hasn't left, we've been playing Happy Family in front of the children. No tears, no,fights.

She cancelled our first divorce mediation meeting, saying she was "unprepared emotionally."

She didn't want to move out yet, saying she was "unprepared emotionally."

She didn't want to tell the kids, saying she was "unprepared emotionally."

Still maintained that we should not get a divorce, but rather separate--of course keeping the AP on the side. And eventually she would "heal" and be ready to cast him aside forever and "be the wife you need me to be."

And meanwhile, I would do my own "healing." Upon inquiry, she informed me that I have many issues I need to work on, including, first and foremost, my inability to love a woman as I should. I think I bit my tongue so hard at this that I drew blood.

The blame shifting is back in full force. Or rather, it never left.

(Oh, just for the record and as a possible addition to the WS Handbook? I have literally a stack of papers and cards predating the affair, all of which express the following: that I am a wonderful husband; that she can't believe how much happiness I have brought her; that she feels so fortunate to have found me; and the best: that nobody has loved her like I have, and nobody has ever known HOW she needs to be loved except for me.)

Last night after an idyllic evening with the family (dinner, music practice, TV, coloring, laundry...; it was positively surreal), she said to me, "this isn't going to work," meaning her leaving our children once again. "Maybe we can just work this out."

Today she called from work and said again that we need to separate, since she can't "give me what I need at this time"--referring to my outrageous, outlandish request that she cease her affair permanently and commit her self to her marriage her family.

I merely said, "Yes, that is what I require--now."

Her: "So does this mean I should start preparing for divorce?"

Uh, yes. That is what I have been saying.

Her final nugget: "I guess you will never understand that that is not the issue."

Meaning, her having an affair for two years is not really the issue. There are other issues that are the "real" issues. And I will never understand this.

If this is not "the issue," then it would not be so difficult to let him go now and work in the "real" issues, now would it?

And if this were not the "real" issue, then I guess her sobbing with grief each time she tried to "end" it was an illusion, masking the REAL "real issue."

In any case, I am proud to say I did not allow myself to be drawn into yet another agonizing, pointless discussion. I simply confined myself to "OK" and "I understand that is how you feel." "Let's just make this as easy on the kids as possible."

And I said goodbye.

She is going away on business for a few days and then--as god is my witness-- we are telling the children on Friday and she is moving out over the weekend.

I left a message for rescheduling for the mediator. I want to forge ahead quickly.

BTW, I do NOT anticipate this WS to get her head out of her ass and act as a real human being should. Her anger and blame will just escalate through the divorce process.

Is it wrong to wish intense suffering on her at this time?

Keep wishing me strength.

Thank you for everything, as always.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
Jrazz
Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 5:53 PM, May 13th (Monday)

I left a message for rescheduling for the mediator. I want to forge ahead quickly.

What are you going to do when she's not emotionally ready to go to that one? Cause she won't be.


We are what we repeatedly do, excellence, then is not an act but a habit. - Aristotle

Posts: 16323 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 5:58 PM, May 13th (Monday)

Jrazz,

I will attend the meeting. If she keeps balking, I will retain my attorney and go the usual route, andmhave her served which I wanted to avoid.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
Jrazz
Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 6:06 PM, May 13th (Monday)

(((Abbondad)))

I know it's not easy. I'm exhausted for you.


We are what we repeatedly do, excellence, then is not an act but a habit. - Aristotle

Posts: 16323 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
woundedwidow
Member
Member # 36869
Default  Posted: 6:10 PM, May 13th (Monday)

Abbondad, you do realize that she will continue this process, with you enabling her, until you feel like sticking pins in your eyeballs would be less painful, right? Because she has no incentive to act any differently nor does she suffer any consequences. I really wish for the sake of your children that you would tell them while she was away on her business trip; change the locks; and have her return from her trip directly to her "separation" apartment. It would be a whole lot less stressful for the kids, IMHO, than this horrible facade of "happy family" that is more like a scab over a festering wound.


Be careful what you wish for the most - you may get it.

Posts: 363 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: VA
ladies_first
Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 6:30 PM, May 13th (Monday)

She is going on long term meds. Not sure which ones. She is already on ADs, so we are thinking mood stabilizers.

Does your wife have diagnosis, like bipolar, or were the "new meds" simply a delay tactic?


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
standingonmarble
Member
Member # 31217
Default  Posted: 6:35 PM, May 13th (Monday)

At least Mother's Day won't be tainted.

Some of us around here were gluttons for "punishment" until we got it and finally stood up for ourselves. Sounds like your close to being there.

Nothing worse than a cake eater. Especially when all they want is the frosting!


At one time he was a man standing on marbles. Now I am a woman standing on marble.....

We are done fighting with each other and decide to fight FOR each other.


Posts: 737 | Registered: Feb 2011
ExposedNiblet
Member
Member # 30803
Default  Posted: 7:54 PM, May 13th (Monday)

Well, as a previous poster said, at least Mother's Day is safe.

I'm sending you as much strength as I can. These next few weeks will be difficult, but if you make that first step, you're well on your way to happy future.

Not to sound like a broken record, but this caught my eye; you said:

BTW, I do NOT anticipate this WS to get her head out of her ass and act as a real human being should. Her anger and blame will just escalate through the divorce process.

Please, please, please reconsider allowing that toxic monster to be present when you talk to your precious children. Please.

You just finished saying that you don't expect her to act like a real human being - so why (WHY????) are you allowing her to be around you and your children during this extremely emotional, extremely vulnerable time??? Whatever that woman can offer then will only harm you and your children.

Please, Abbondad, please rethink this - not as a man who hopes his wife will follow through...but as a man who sees his wife for what she truly is.

Please.


Divorced
Me ($39.95 plus S & H)
DS1(17), DS2(15)

Enjoying this chapter in my life.
Learning that being alone does not mean being lonely.
Discovering that where I've been is not as important as where I'm going.


Posts: 355 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Right Here, Canada
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 7:58 PM, May 13th (Monday)

Given how the vast majority of wives greatly value their families and the security of the marriage I am frankly puzzled why your wife won't let go of the OM.
She professes a deep love for you and even if she also felt that way for the OM equally, the added intense love for the children would make this a no-brainer.

The equation makes no sense; can you answer why she is attached to the OM to the extent she harms her children and destroys her marriage? It makes no sense. If she despised you and couldn't tolerate living with you I could understand her attitude.

When you ask her why can't you turn your back on the OM what is her answer? Is it a deeper love , sex or emotional addiction?

Those are some of the million-dollar questions, right? I have long since given up asking her these questions directly, as these are the inevitable reactions:

Our children are the most important thing in the world to me.

There are certain needs I need met. (Whether this refers to sex, I don't know, as we have always had a wonderful sex life)

He is not the issue. You still don't understand.

And of course, the tried-and-true, "It's complicated. It's not a black-and-white issue."

Of course the questions cut to,the core of this, but the problem is that

1) these are rational questions. She is immune to reason or logic.
2) these assume that she really does love the children in a normal way that a mother should. I would kill or die--literally ANYTHING--for our children, let alone sacrificing some woman to work on our marriage for the sake of the children. This does not mean staying in a terribly unhappy or abusive marriage for their sake, but at least give it a real chance--say, trying to suffer through NC for more than one week.

The bottom line is that there are two possibilities:

1) she is mentally ill in some way, terribly deeply broken
2) she is just plain evil

I know her very well. She is not plain evil. She is the former, not the latter.

And this is what I keep telling myself to help assuage my anger and anguish: she is sick. And I can't fix her. Tragically it is the children who will suffer and be left behind in her destructive, selfish wake.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:10 PM, May 13th (Monday)

Does your wife have diagnosis, like bipolar, or were the "new meds" simply a delay tactic?

I sometimes wonder. Her mom is diagnosed bipolar, and I have asked her. She scoffs at this. I do not believe she is, at least according to my layman's understanding of the disorder.

Her mom also said a few months ago, when I called her reaching out for help (she is wonderful and completely sympathetic to my side), "You do know she is BPD, right?"

So maybe it's that. I do know that something is very very wrong. (As I have explained before, her childhood sexual abuse figures prominently into all this." She has deep abandonment issues as well as terrible panic attacks, anxiety and depression.

As far as meds, she has thus far refused or at least delayed. She has also discontinued therapy, claiming that therapy is "just someone's opinion," and that the answers lie within herself only.

In any case, I cannot be her physician or her therapist. I have tried to be both for a long time. I do love her, and I am concerned about her. I would not be surprised if she has a terrible "fall" in the near future during or after the divorce. Many times she has said things like "I feel dead inside" and "I wish someone would kill me."

I informed her therapist of this (she is also my therapist) and she is concerned as well.

Please: I do not believe that the children are in any danger other than the pain of mommy and daddy divorcing. If I did, I would act immediately. Be assured of that.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
phmh
Member
Member # 34146
Default  Posted: 8:19 PM, May 13th (Monday)

For days I have struggled about whether or not to post, but I'm going to. Because I care about your kids. Everyone keeps using euphemisms and pleading with you to protect your kids, using vague words, because we all want to be kind. I'm hoping that if you actually think about what the likely consequences are for your kids to remain embroiled in this hot mess of dysfunction, you might take some definitive action to protect them and try to reverse the damage they've already suffered. This back-and-forth, lying, no stable parent, passive-aggressive stuff they've been witnessing borders on (or already is) emotional abuse, and can have significant and severe long-term effects for them.

Kids that grow up in environments such as you've described they've been in lately may act out by cutting, developing eating disorders, turning to drugs or alcohol, failing school, running away, prostitution, abusing people, putting up with abuse, or myriad other bad things. Please -- this isn't a joke. I wouldn't post if it were just you, as others have given you tons of advice that you have disregarded, but those poor kids are so innocent.

You chose to have them, and now you need to step up and protect them. You are putting your WW's wants and desires above the needs of your kids. This really needs to stop.

Your WORDS say this:

I would kill or die--literally ANYTHING--for our children
but your ACTIONS say the complete opposite by allowing this situation to continue. For weeks now, you've been saying that you're going to divorce, but then your posts are full of excuses about why you're going to play happy family with her -- which messes with the kids even more. Please, please put a stop to this. Make your actions match your words. That's one of the first steps to being an authentic person.

I know you can do this. I know it's tough. But it gets easier and you will gain strength. Someday, your kids will thank you for being a stable, loving parent, and helping to model healthy adult behavior. You've got this, my friend. You can do it.


Me: BW, divorced, now fabulous and happy!

Married: 11 years, no kids

The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. -Michelangelo


Posts: 3266 | Registered: Dec 2011
ProbableIceCream
Member
Member # 37468
Default  Posted: 8:53 PM, May 13th (Monday)

I would kill or die--literally ANYTHING--for our children.

Wife still hasn't left, we've been playing Happy Family in front of the children.

Uh huh.

(EDIT: fixed quotes)

[This message edited by ProbableIceCream at 8:53 PM, May 13th (Monday)]


Me: born 1982.
DD: born 2006 (I have abt 80% custody).
My D-Day was April 2012. Divorced Jul 2013.

Posts: 676 | Registered: Nov 2012
ButterflyGirl
Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 9:34 PM, May 13th (Monday)

I have anxiety and depression, on meds for both, and I was sexually abused as a child. But I do NOT treat people like shit and use those as an excuse for my behavior. Stop letting her do that.


xBW~ 35
Two of the most darling sons ~ 10 and 6

Posts: 1991 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 10:06 PM, May 13th (Monday)

She has also discontinued therapy, claiming that therapy is "just someone's opinion," and that the answers lie within herself only.

Well, color me shocked! Yea....NO.

You are trying to do this the easy way.
The painless way.

What I see is that you are desperate for her to *come out of it* so that life doesn't have to change. BTDT. I get it. Dude, my Dday was 6/08. And I spent almost 4 years allowing him actively jerk me around. And giving him more time. And giving him another chance. Much as your WW is doing to you. But guess what? Did.Not.Matter. I ended up in the same place, just older. (but definitely wiser, although there's that pesky PTSD shit from that *extra* time I gave him.....)

Based on what I know of your WW from what you wrote:
If you tell the children together, she will turn it into a very traumatic experience for them with her tears and drama;
It is highly, highly unlikely (IMO) that mediation is going to work for you guys. She's just too unstable.
She is going to string this shit out forever. Meanwhile, you are living a miserable existence and she's got you AND OM. See how *well* that works out for her to be so 'emotionally unprepared'?

STOP LETTING HER DRIVE THE BUS.

No. She does NOT get to just cancel the f'n mediation appt. If she's not up to it, then she sits her ass at home. You go, sit and stare at the mediator...while he makes a note that YOU showed up and SHE didn't. DO NOT let her do this again. THIS IS COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE.

You cannot force her to move out. So whatever. STOP playing Happy Family with her.

Give her a specific date/time that the kids will be told. Tell your children that there will be a family meeting on that date/time. Write it on the calendar. Put a sticky note about it on the fridge. And then, just like the mediation thing.....your WW is free to attend or not. But the *date* will be kept.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7683 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 6:51 AM, May 14th (Tuesday)

Hi, Everyone,

Wife left this morning for a business trip. This is a relief. And then when she returns she is moving out after we tell the kids. She told me this morning she is committed to telling them on Friday, and then Saturday, Happy Family will move her to the apartment. Prior to leaving this morning she is meeting with our son's therapist for advice on how to break the news. So all things point to this actually happening. I know, I know, but we will see.

As for your concerns about my wife breaking down or in some way sabotaging telling the kids together, it's just not going to happen. She has an eerie capability to compartmentalize, to wear an utterly convincing mask when necessary--in this case a mask of "everything's going to just great, kids!"

Because she believes it will be.

Actually I am more worried about myself breaking down when we tell them. She can be hard as nails. I am easily moved to tears when it concerns my children. And I am furious with her, and will be more so when she spins her sunshiney script to them.

If some of you are unaware, this will be the second time she is moving to this apartment. The kids hate being there and want to be with me--or even better, with both of us. There are no other children to play with, and little to do. They act out and fight, and she has difficulty controlling them alone.

She is a terrible candidate for single motherhood, as she depends on me for almost literally everything. But this is the consequence for,her actions.

They will have a safe, stable place with me in their home, surrounded by their friends and comforting routine.

I concur that she is no candidate for mediation. I gave her my notes for a possible marital settlement and she is already irate, taking issue rather nastily about child support and worse, possible alimony. (I make 60k, she makes 110k.).

The mediator told me we can meet for a half hour and if we decide it's not going to work, we can leave and won't be charged.

I always wanted collaborative divorce, in which we will both have legal advocates through the process. It's a lot more money, but not nearly as much as going through the courts.

So if mediation falls apart, then we will just go to the next option.

Thanks, everyone, for your concern, advice, and support. Couldn't do,this without you.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
nowiknow23
Guide
Member # 33226
Default  Posted: 7:29 AM, May 14th (Tuesday)

And I am furious with her, and will be more so when she spins her sunshiney script to them.
Dude - do NOT let this be HER script.

The moment that you tell your children will be in their minds for the rest of their lives. They will remember every word spoken and will remember who said what.

Spend the next few days working on what you want them to hear. What YOU want them to know. Write it out. Rework it. Go over it with the kids' counselor. Even work on it with her if you feel it would help.

Your kids need to know you both love them. They need to know they are not to blame in any way. They need to know what this means to them - will they go to the same school, live in the same house, etc.

They need to know they can ask any question at any time. Period. They need to know that whatever they feel, it's ok. It's ok to be sad. It's ok to be angry. It's ok to be confused. It's all normal and ok.

If you make this talk all about them, you can get through it without your own anger and hurt derailing you from giving them what they need in the moment.

It will suck, but it is overdue. I know you think you two are keeping all this apart from them, but that's just delusional thinking. Trust us - your kids KNOW on some level. And they are likely bullshitting their way through this in utter confusion about what's been going on. It's time they were set free from that.

Sending you strength, Abbondad.


You can call me NIK

Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.
- Plato


Posts: 24393 | Registered: Aug 2011
sudra
Member
Member # 30143
Default  Posted: 7:52 AM, May 14th (Tuesday)

and then Saturday, Happy Family will move her to the apartment.

I've been following your story but not posted yet, mainly because my situation was different than yours...

I have to post now. Please do not make your children witness their mother move out. This seems so so so wrong. Have the talk and then get them away from her. Do something to take their minds off of the situation, and let her move out by herself. They do not need to see mom leave.


Me (BW) (54), Him(SAWH) (57)
Married 21 years, 1 son (19), 1 stepdaughter (27)
DDay #1 January 2004
DDay #2 7-27-2010 7 month EA/PA (became "engaged" to OW before he told me he wanted a divorce)
Working on R

Posts: 1425 | Registered: Nov 2010
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 8:25 AM, May 14th (Tuesday)

From what you have said the OM is not the issue and the affair is not the issue. This of course makes sense, what WW would sacrifice a loving family for an AP who is probably weary of all this drama anyway. Again from what you infer in your posts, she currently doesn't even see him very often, which doesn't support a strong emotional bond.

What are we left with: there is something about your attitude, behavior, POV, or personality that offends her to the point where she will not repair the marriage unless you modify your stance. You mention she is angry. Why don't you explain why she is hostile and cold?

Abbondad, if its not the affair, how about telling the involved members of SI what the hell it really is that is causing this crisis. I think you know because she has been repeatedly telling you, and I don't buy the mentally ill slant if she is holding down a high paying job with little trouble.

All these posts from concerned SI members maybe wasted words if you are not telling all of the story. There is some serious issue over which you will not compromise and neither will she, and it is not this seemingly meaningless affair. Why don't you enlighten us?


Posts: 1689 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 8:31 AM, May 14th (Tuesday)

OK BIG 2X4 Heading your way AD.

I am actually horribly disappointed with you, and wishy washy nonesense. I knew there was NO WAY IN HE!! you were going to follow through on Mothers day. I am willing to be you spent the day kissing her A** to make her day special.

Here's the deal. You need to tell the kids what's up, not Friday, Not when she says it's ok, but NOW!!! This horrible cycle of behavior that you and her continue to engage is hurting your children way more than making a clean cut.

You need to make the appointment with the Mediator, and tell her when it is, and if she fails to show that you will proceed with a REAL D and have her served immediately. You have got to put on your Big Boy pants, and be the strong one here. You are just hurting yourself and your kids. She could care less, the reason she has trouble controlling them is because she doesn't want to parent. So oblige her. Go to your apartment, don't worry I have the kids covered. This will cause them less trauma in the long run.

She continues to show you who she is, why are you so unaccepting of it?
She quit IC, because she had a therapist that probably told her something she didn't want to hear.
She cancelled the mediation appt, without your consent.
She keeps telling you she isn't ready. BULLSHIT. Do NOT allow her to manipulate you and your kids one more minute.

Sending your strength, cause brother, you need to find some and do what is right.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 7790 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:47 AM, May 14th (Tuesday)

OKnow,

First, it IS about the OM, despite what she says. She has been in a deep emotional affair with him for two years. Every time she has "ended it " with him she has nearly had a nervous breakdown. She has been able to split her needs between him and her family. This has worked out nicely for her--except when she tries to end it with him or now, when she sees I am ending it with her.

So there is the classic cake eating here.

But absolutely there is a more backstory. Not sure how long you have been following my threads. At at least at one point I offered in detail how all this began: to spice up our sex life, WE agreed that she could have a few anonymous erotic encounters. The rules were nobody she knew or would see again, lest an emotional bond forms. Well, she did fool around with someone she knew and the bond formed.

When I discovered this (a few months after), I told her to stop. Begged her. Told her it was hurting me and would hurt our family. She continued.

She is angry with me for "letting" her do this. We have been through this for hundreds of hours, together and in MC. She associates what happened with her incestuous child abuse and father-abandonment. She associates me now with the two men (father and grandfather) who "betrayed" her, one by abandoning her and the other by molesting her.

I have felt and expressed intense remorse for my,part in this for two years. I had no idea at the time that her FOO issues and trauma would awaken through this mutually agreed-upon action.

She now blames me for literally everything. I am every man who,has abandoned her or betrayed her. Yes, I have my issues, which I am determined to work through in therapy. They seem to involve my own abandonment issues, attachment disorder, addiction to rejection... Who knows what else. But again, there comes a point where all the psychological analysis must end and adult responsibility for one's actions must begin.

I have become a better person, a better father. Yes it took this to shock me into looking within and forging these deep changes. She herself has admitted she's stunned at my changes. But it's been two years. She has not changed and continues to do the one thing that she knows is destroying me.

I still cannot absolve her of responsibility in the pain she has,caused me and our children--even as she continues to absolve herself and always has.

Does this help clarify, OKnow? (Not being sarcastic; I honestly want to explain)


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:54 AM, May 14th (Tuesday)

Why don't you explain why she is hostile and cold?

OKnow, she is not hostile and cold all the time. Just when she does not get her way--like now, when I am finally closing the bakery. Her other personality is extremely loving, all over me, telling me how much she loves me...and not to leave her...even as she is planning her next visit to Him.

As far as being mentally ill and holding down a high paying job, well, I don't know,what to say. Many troubled people are extremely successful and otherwise highly functional. Perhaps the phrase "mentally ill" is too loaded, sounding too ominous?

Again, I willingly share my responsibility in terms of,what,led to the affair. It is the regret of my life. But I have sobbed with remorse--while she remained aloof, walking past our children to go be with him.

Oh and BTW: even if we had not delved into the whole semi-open marriage thing, I wonder if it would not have happened at,some point regardless (her having an affair).

[This message edited by Abbondad at 8:59 AM, May 14th (Tuesday)]


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 9:29 AM, May 14th (Tuesday)

Thank you Abbondad. You have made things much clearer.
You WW sounds like a selfish child woman who is intent on meeting her needs irrespective of the pain and suffering of her family.

Have you tried bullying the OM try to get HIM to end the affair and quit destroying your life. Maybe through his family, job or some other vulnerability he may have.

Otherwise I would talk to your wife and say go NC, it has to be over right now even as we speak, or depending on your decision we will irrevocably divorce. If she refuses to give up OM then the divorce will take place even if she changes her mind later; there is no going back from her decision. It is final

This approach moves things forward; the divorce will definitely take place if she continues the open marriage, and this wishy washy backtracking will end. Depending on what she said, the marriage will end as the words 'no to NC' come out of her mouth. Takes a lot of strength to see it through but it cuts out her trying to wheedle her way into your good graces and put off divorce over and over again.

Worth considering. You have to move forward with your life.


Posts: 1689 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
ProbableIceCream
Member
Member # 37468
Default  Posted: 9:32 AM, May 14th (Tuesday)

OK now, first you were blameshifting onto Abbondad and now you're giving terrible advice, both based on not bothering to read his story or the thread. He's already done all that.


Me: born 1982.
DD: born 2006 (I have abt 80% custody).
My D-Day was April 2012. Divorced Jul 2013.

Posts: 676 | Registered: Nov 2012
crazynot
Member
Member # 24572
Default  Posted: 9:50 AM, May 14th (Tuesday)

Abbondad, I just want to wish you the very best this weekend. It does sound like you are determined to see this tough, but inevitable and right, decision through. My only thought is that involving the kids in the whole 'Mummy moving to the apartment' bit is unnecessary and probably too stressful. If I were you, I'd tell them what was going to happen and take them out somewhere for the day while she moves out. Then very soon after, she can have them over - hopefully when she's personalised the apartment with some of their stuff - or some new stuff. The way I handled this very tough situation was to absolutely bond rock-solid with my kids as a team of three... and that's how it's stayed. They have now got to the point where they're fine with their Dad (but not OW, who's absolutely persona non grata to them and WH respects that, he has no choice). But we've actually benefited from getting through that time. Yes, the kids suffered from the horror of their dad's actions, but they never, ever felt that they weren't part of a family. They just closed over the hole he left and closed ranks with me. The one thing you can't, probably, achieve when the leaving partner is being unfaithful, is to 'co-parent' and be a family all together at any point. Once she has gone for good and the D is on track, you'll be able to start really healing from all of this.


Me - 50
Him - 51
DDay 21 March 2009
Divorcing and delighted!

Do you want me to tell you something really subversive? Love is everything it's cracked up to be. That's why people are so cynical about it.


Posts: 839 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: UK
LonelyHusband
Member
Member # 34145
Default  Posted: 10:13 AM, May 14th (Tuesday)

I have become a better person, a better father.

This is defined by actions, not words.

Right now YOU are allowing your children to live with a toxic woman. YOU are allowing your children to live in an environment where they are getting constantly changing and mixed signals. YOU are doing nothing whilst they are being traumatised by witnessing their family disintegrating. YOU are standing by whilst someone emotionally abuses your children. These are NOT the actions of a good father.

I suspect you CAN be a good father, because you talk with passion about your kids. But I don't believe you are acting like one at the moment.

Protect your children. Tell them the truth the moment she is out of the house for the weekend. When she comes back have her things packed and ready for her to walk in, pick them up with no discussions and leave. Get your children into a stable environment as quickly as possible where they are not exposed to toxic behaviour on her part and co-dependant inaction on your part. Those are the actions of a good father.

A poor father lies in inaction whilst his children are emotionally or physically harmed. A poor father is trapped by fear into inactivity. A good father says FUCK THIS and gets off his ass and sorts it out.

When your children look back at how you raised them, what type of father do you want them to remember. Which do you want to be?

[This message edited by LonelyHusband at 10:23 AM, May 14th (Tuesday)]


BS ( me) 41
fWS (OktoberMest) 35
D day #1 29/10/2011, D day #2 15/112011, D day #3 15/03/2012
Reconciling.
“It’s better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all”, is inadequate consolation when you vacuum up a child's hamster'

Posts: 1290 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: UK
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 10:28 AM, May 14th (Tuesday)

AD...I agree with tushnurse and LonelyHusband at this point.

Your kids *still* don't know the truth. Your DS came to you and asked for the truth..and you lied to him.

YOU are betraying your kids,AD.

And you know exactly what betrayal does to a person.

Tell the kids. Today. Without her. You say you know she won't become hysterical or dramatic because she wants the best for the kids...that is such bullshit. Her concern has not,for one minute,been about her children.

TELL YOUR CHILDREN.


BS(me)41
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,9
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Happily Reconciled.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7116 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 10:29 AM, May 14th (Tuesday)

Have you tried bullying the OM try to get HIM to end the affair and quit destroying your life. Maybe through his family, job or some other vulnerability he may have.

Of course I have considered this, many times. And almost everyone on this site strongly advises against it.

It would be ineffective and could make things worse. She is probably protective of him and she would resent me more, making it difficult to coparent, thus hurting the children more.

It would boost his ego, as it would put me in a subservient position: "Oh please don't do this!"

It's quite clear that he is aware that he is destroying a family. This has been his intent from the beginning. He WANTS her to divorce me.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
karmahappens
Member
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 10:36 AM, May 14th (Tuesday)

and then Saturday, Happy Family will move her to the apartment

This is complete mind-fuckery to those poor children.

I am really questioning your motives at this point. I think you are willing to sacrifice your children's emotional health in order to control your wife into doing what you think you want and need.

IMO your wife is a broken, broken woman-child. It would be so much healthier for her (and the family unit) to let her go. Let her find a path of healing.

Your request for her erotic encounters so you could hear the stories has ended so badly. You used your wife and asked her to be used for your gratification.

With her abusive background it was too much. She probably associates men abusing/using her as love.You claim you didn't know it would hurt her, but in hind-sight, it was a horrible choice with devastating consequences.

She needs help and I think you might be broken enough that you cannot help her.

Let her go, tell the children and continue with IC for you and the kids. They should not be carrying these wounds into adulthood because of two broken parents.

I continue to pray you all find healing here.


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaïs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3765 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
Grace and Flowers
Member
Member # 34431
Default  Posted: 10:38 AM, May 14th (Tuesday)

Oh god, "Happy Family" is helping her move?

What the hell are you thinking? Why on earth would you put your kds through that. Can you really not see how traumatizing that would be for the kids?

I feel like screaming at you not to do this! But you have consistently shown, by your actions as you've described, that protecting those kids is far, far down on your list of priorities.

I can't believe you think this is right, and would do this to them. If she needs help moving anything, she can hire some help. You shouldn't be involved AT ALL in her moving out....much less your poor kids.

And I fully expect that a week from today, not one thing will have changed...and that the kids will still be in misery.


I'm Happy, not Sad!

Posts: 1148 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: US
ExposedNiblet
Member
Member # 30803
Default  Posted: 10:41 AM, May 14th (Tuesday)

YOU are betraying your kids,AD.

And you know exactly what betrayal does to a person.

Tell the kids. Today. Without her. You say you know she won't become hysterical or dramatic because she wants the best for the kids...that is such bullshit. Her concern has not,for one minute,been about her children.

TELL YOUR CHILDREN.

^^^This. One thousand times this.^^^

For God's sake man, please listen. This is your "golden opportunity".

Do the right thing for your kids.

[This message edited by ExposedNiblet at 10:43 AM, May 14th (Tuesday)]


Divorced
Me ($39.95 plus S & H)
DS1(17), DS2(15)

Enjoying this chapter in my life.
Learning that being alone does not mean being lonely.
Discovering that where I've been is not as important as where I'm going.


Posts: 355 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Right Here, Canada
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 10:42 AM, May 14th (Tuesday)

Oh Hell. I misread the earlier post... I thought "Happy Family" was referring to her family..mom,brothers,etc. But..no. You are talking about you..the kids..and her. OMG! WTH would you do that to your kids??? That's awful,AD. Just awful.

Let's see. Tuesday. The kids are in school,right? Pack her fucking shit and take it to her apartment TODAY. Then sit the kids down TODAY and tell them the truth.

DO NOT put your kids through the emotional torture of having them help move Mommy to her new apartment.


BS(me)41
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,9
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Happily Reconciled.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7116 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 11:15 AM, May 14th (Tuesday)

I think you get it brother, but it scares the hell out of you. It's well past time for her to go. She needs to be done driving the crazy train. Your kids are going to need one hell of a stable environment and counseling for what they have already endured. Don't add to their issues by making them feel responsible for their mother moving out. Hell, they are already going to feel it was their actions that drove mom away. That is what every child feels in the case of a divorce. "If only I hadn't been naughty", If only I had listened better" are very common reactions. Please, PLEASE do not include them in this move.

Talk to them today, arrange a safe place for them to be when she arrives home. The two of you can move her if it comes to that.

I'm getting a weird feeling here brother. Where is your concern for the kids? I know it's normal to be all over the place, but overriding all should be the childrens best interest. Make that a priority now. You and she are adults, they are defenseless kids. Who's standing up for them?

Strength and prayers


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2540 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Grace and Flowers
Member
Member # 34431
Default  Posted: 11:30 AM, May 14th (Tuesday)

Ive said it before, and 545 just said it again...getting a weird feeling about all this.

Your focus seems to be solely on your WW. Planning EVERYTHING around her. Trying to "play nice". I still believe this is all about you being addicted to this drama....addicted to the point that what is best for the kids ISNT EVEN ON YOUR RADAR.

Sorry to sound harsh. But we've ALL been there. And you ignore the advice you want about your WW. But please, for god's sake...stand up for those kids. Stop putting WW first, you second, and them dead last.

I think it's a great idea to get as much of her stuff packed while she's out of town (WITHOUT involving the kids!). And to tell the kids ON YOUR OWN while she's out of town. Because it's the right thing to do for your kids. Give them a few days to process it before Mommy comes home. And then, take them out for the day so she can move. And if SHE won't move....you do it.

[This message edited by SadMad2012 at 11:32 AM, May 14th (Tuesday)]


I'm Happy, not Sad!

Posts: 1148 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: US
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 11:31 AM, May 14th (Tuesday)

Probableicecream.
With any problem there are many options and quite a few potential solutions. Makes sense to explore every avenue of thought in an effort to help Abbondad.
One thing we are all in a agreement with is that Abbondad shouldn't backslide and move away from what looks like an unavoidable necessity - divorce.

If her emotional relationship with OM is so strong that she has a nervous breakdown if she tries to give him up, then she gone. Time to bury the marriage and move on.


Posts: 1689 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 11:45 AM, May 14th (Tuesday)

Have you tried bullying the OM try to get HIM to end the affair and quit destroying your life. Maybe through his family, job or some other vulnerability he may have.

Of course I have considered this, many times. And almost everyone on this site strongly advises against it.

Abbondad, that is the basis of the first attack on the infidelity; inform the spouse, employer, and anyone else who can help pressure the OM to throw WW under the bus.

Almost everyone on SI strongly endorses this approach. If you can get the other guy to back off and leave your wife alone that can save a lot of grief.


Posts: 1689 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
AppleBlossom
Member
Member # 38541
Default  Posted: 2:43 PM, May 14th (Tuesday)

Abbondad, your wife does not have a nervous breakdown - she has tantrums every time she doesnt get her way. Abusive people like her get very good at acting like they are losing it.

You are also facilitating and encouraging this behaviour and the two of you are teaching your children how to conduct themselves in a relationship. You might think both of you are somehow protecting the kids, but keep going on like this and your kids will have a lot of trouble with relationships in the future.

You have a lot of wise, experienced people here saying the same thing - the kids are hurting and you need to protect them.

For goodness sakes, please listen.


Posts: 154 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Australia
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 2:56 PM, May 14th (Tuesday)

Do not have the children witness her moving. That will be heartbreaking for them. It is best to have a plan in place....tell them, then you take them to the movies and ice cream while SHE moves on her own.

They are CHILDREN, they do not understand what is going on.


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4008 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Virginia
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 3:28 PM, May 14th (Tuesday)

Friends, please. Thank you so much for your responses, harsh words and all.

Let me clarify: this is our second time separating. The kids were back and forth to this apartment on Coparent schedule for three months. It has been set up as a second home for them: toys, lots of their stuff. They are used to it. We have been hanging out there almost every weekend as a second home for nearly two months since she came home for false R.

So the place itself is not new or scary.

The difficulty will be telling the kids that that we will no longer be together. And we will tell them together.

My wife met with my sons therapist this morning and we have the script down as best we can for this weekend when she returns.

We will do it gently and quickly. And then we will all take moms stuff there together so they do not feel like mom is abandoning them.

Thanks again.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
veritas
Member
Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 3:58 PM, May 14th (Tuesday)

I think it's far better that they DON'T witness this. I had a similar situation, and I had to stop allowing the ex to come and get things when the kids were home, after my 14-year-old son lay down in a fetal position in the hallway and cried like a baby. People are not telling you this out the sides of their neck, and you and your ex are not different and special. Pushing your children into the middle of this divorce is a horrible idea, but it's what you've been doing all along in an attempt to assert control. That ship sailed a long time ago; the best you can hope for is not to let your children go down with the ship. Please reconsider.


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10168 | Registered: Feb 2004
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 4:08 PM, May 14th (Tuesday)

My words were not meant to be harsh. I cannot understand though how moving their own mother out of their home will be in any way beneficial to them. Are you intending on telling them of the impending divorce? Please don't give them false hope by telling them 'mommy needs some time' or some derivation of that. They deserve the honesty. Remember what your STBXWW told your son while looking in his eyes? Are you ready for that convo? Given her swings of mood, I anticipate a drama mama moment or three during this move. Guard the children well brother.

Next subject, how are you doing? Are you ready to let go? Complete 180? Are you taking care of yourself as well? I realize the convo turned heavily to the kids and I hope you realize why, but I/we are concerned for you also. What are you doing for YOURSELF during this sabbatical? Your kids need you.

Ultimately, this site is about surviving infidelity. I hope we can help. Keep posting.


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2540 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
ExposedNiblet
Member
Member # 30803
Default  Posted: 5:22 PM, May 14th (Tuesday)

Okay AD, obviously you believe very strongly that you are doing what's best for all of you. Just as obviously, you won't listen to us, so there's no point in trying to change your thinking.

Do what you feel you must.

We will still be here when the proverbial s**t hits.

Good luck.


(((((Abbondad)))))


...Nibs


Divorced
Me ($39.95 plus S & H)
DS1(17), DS2(15)

Enjoying this chapter in my life.
Learning that being alone does not mean being lonely.
Discovering that where I've been is not as important as where I'm going.


Posts: 355 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Right Here, Canada
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 6:29 PM, May 14th (Tuesday)


Next subject, how are you doing? Are you ready to let go? Complete 180? Are you taking care of yourself as well? I realize the convo turned heavily to the kids and I hope you realize why, but I/we are concerned for you also.

Thank you for asking. I am not doing too well. Feeling beaten down, alone, quite hopeless. The kids are running around--happily--and I am holding myself together for them.

I asked my therapist this morning point blank, what should I do (after we had gone through the latest tedium). For a change she "took off her therapist's cap," looked me in the eye and said, "Find someone else."

My future personal ad: "Emotional trainwreck looking for someone new to whom to cling."


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 6:35 PM, May 14th (Tuesday)

So the plan is to tell them "gently and quickly."

What happens when they start crying? What happens when they ask questions?

Do you really think your WW is going to stay calm and be honest with them? You already said you knew she would blow sunshine up their ass when you tell them about the divorce. Do you think she's suddenly going to be calm and rational?

Not all therapists give great advice. Telling the kids together would be the best thing...except when their mother is abusive,blameshifty,and,well,except whenthe other parent is your wife. She has NOT thought about those kids at all during the last 2 years. Its been alllll about her.

Speaking as a mother....we are not perfect...we all make mistakes...we all say or do things we regret. But a good mother will never do what your WW has done. The level of selfishness this woman has shown..the complete disregard for the emotional health of her children..these are not the actions of a good mother.

What are you going to say to your son when he tells you that you lied to him a few weeks ago? Because,you did indeed lie to this boy. I tried to tell you to go to him immediately,apologize,and be honest with him. So did many other people. You decided to do what you felt was right by your WW,instead of the best thing for this child. I fear this,more than anything else,will come back to bite you in the ass. The repercussions of lying to your child when they come to you with a desperate need for the truth will be far reaching..and possibly devastating.

In all honesty,I think the reason you have put off telling the kids the truth is because you have been hoping your WW would snap out of it and decided to stay in the marriage. You knew it was a long shot,but you went for it. And your kids have paid the price.

I know. Im being harsh. I think it's warranted.

[This message edited by confused615 at 6:35 PM, May 14th (Tuesday)]


BS(me)41
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,9
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Happily Reconciled.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7116 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
woundedwidow
Member
Member # 36869
Default  Posted: 6:54 PM, May 14th (Tuesday)

Abbondad, I believe the self-description in your future personal ad sums up the crux of this ongoing situation. It's not just that your wife is a continuing cheater; it's that you continue to cater to her bad behavior and hang on to her despite, or regardless of, the damage inflicted on you and your family. Whatever happens this weekend - and I hope for your kids' sake that you're prepared for ALL possible scenarios - this needs to STOP NOW.


Be careful what you wish for the most - you may get it.

Posts: 363 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: VA
misskirby
Member
Member # 34594
Default  Posted: 9:42 PM, May 14th (Tuesday)

I have tried to stay out of this. I really have. I am not going through a separation or divorce, so I'm not sure that I'm qualified to give advice here. But seriously.
I asked my therapist this morning point blank, what should I do (after we had gone through the latest tedium). For a change she "took off her therapist's cap," looked me in the eye and said, "Find someone else."

I hope this is a joke. There is no way you should be finding someone else right now. You have so much work to do for yourself in therapy before you can make a good partner to anyone. And I get it. She is the one cheating. But you are the one dealing with the results of it, and that is messing with you big time. Even if the perfect woman, perfect partner for you were to come along right now, there is no way you should be even trying to start something. You have so much shit on your plate, adding anything else, especially something as consuming and important as a relationship should be, would be a mistake. If your therapist really said this to you, I hope that you are not taking it as the be all, end all.

AD, there are so many people here trying to help you. People who have been where you are, who have come out wiser in the process. You keep returning, saying "thank you for the advice, but........". I don't know if you're getting a thrill out of everyone telling you how awful your wife is. Maybe it makes you feel better to hear it confirmed. The truth is, none of us are there with you. We are hearing your side of the story. I'm not saying that she is in any way in the right. If you know she's in the wrong, though, why continue?

I desperately hope to read this weekend that she has moved out. I doubt I will. She has excuses and you accept them. I fully expect that that will continue to be the case this weekend. If your kids are indeed suffering through all of this, all I can do is hope that they will come out as unscathed as possible. They are the innocents here.


Me-BS, Late 20's
Him-WH, Late 20's
M 9 years, together 14
DS and DD
D-Day 1/16/12

"Long is the way And hard, that out of Hell leads up to Light" -John Milton, Paradise Lost


Posts: 204 | Registered: Jan 2012
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 10:36 PM, May 14th (Tuesday)

Dude, seriously.

You keep insisting that your kids are 'happy'. Well of course they look fucking happy. THEY'RE KIDS.

What everyone is trying to get through your head is that YOU are the 'supposed' responsible adult in this situation. YOU are the one that is supposed to have foresight and whatnot.

What in the hell do you think you are teaching these little people?????

That *it's okay* for mommies to come and go. That it is acceptable for mommies to have their own apartment. That it is okay for mommies to do <whatever other dumb, fucked up shit that you WW has done over the past 5 kajillion pages of board space that's been used here>.

You are teaching your kids some SHIT lessons. And like I said, of course they seem *okay*....they're freaking kids. They don't know what the hell *normal* looks like. But right now, you and your WW are teaching them some pretty fucked up version of how *normal* relationships work.

Look. From one *bound and determined to do it MY way* person to another (that would be YOU). LISTEN to what everyone is saying to you.

I have been on this board for almost 18 months now and I have never....NOT ONCE....seen a person post and say "guess what guys, you were all wrong." I didn't take one lick of advice that anyone gave me. Not One. I continued to engage with him. Mistake. I was *convinced* that SI could help him, and against a very strong outpouring of *HELL NO's*...I had him join anyway. Mistake. I suspended my divorce....even though he had been actively involved with someone else up until the day that I posted that I was considering it. Again, AGAINST all of the very wise advice that I was receiving. BIGGEST MISTAKE OF THEM ALL!!!

I WAS WRONG on Every.Single.Decision that I made *on my own*.

I don't know what to think about the whole family helping your WW to move out. I, personally, think that my head would have exploded if Sultan had asked the kids to help him load up his car when he was leaving though.

Actually I DO know what I think about it. Your kids are going to know that they *helped* mommy leave so that she could live in a place away from them.

*sigh*


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7683 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
Grace and Flowers
Member
Member # 34431
Default  Posted: 10:51 PM, May 14th (Tuesday)

Like misskirby, I sincerely hope that therapist was joking. It was not a good joke though. It was so wrong...in so many ways.

I find it confusing as well, why you continually say, "Friends, thanks for the advice, but...". Every single person who has been through this with kids had been practically BEGGING you to not involve the kids in the move. It doesn't matter that they've been to the apt! It doesn't matter that they have toys there! Involving them in the "final" move out of Mommy (which I don't believe will be final, if it even happens) is SO UNBELIEVABLY CRUEL TO THE KIDS!

It sounds like you are involving the kids in the move as a way to soothe your WW or yourself.

The focus has turned to the kids, I think, because they are innocent. You have it in your power to HELP them...you have the advice of people who have BTDT....but you are choosing to add to their anguish, in one of the worst ways possible. It pains those of us with children to see you so self-absorbed that YOU WON'T PUT THEM FIRST.

And dude...if your IC was serious...find a new therapist. That is some shit advice right there.

Finally.....it's good you have a "script" to start with with the kids. Prepare to toss it out the window. Think as well as to what you'll say when they're up all night, or having panic attacks, or, worst of all, feeling guilty, hating themselves, because THEY moved Mommy out of the house.

Please don't do this to them.


I'm Happy, not Sad!

Posts: 1148 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: US
ButterflyGirl
Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 10:58 PM, May 14th (Tuesday)

I have a few thoughts I would like to share.

Having the kids help your wife move out is THE MOST RIDICULOUS AND CRUEL thing I've heard on this site in a long time. The kids need to be hearing over and over again that they did nothing wrong, and you want to have them engage in the physical act of you guys separating?? As others have suggested, for the love of God, take the kids away for the day while she moves out. If they are accustomed to this place, have some stuff there, it's not "new" or "scary" to them, why the hell would you want to subject them to physically moving her out?? You are putting WAY too much pressure on them to take this as a good thing.. Ugh, I wish I could say the right thing here to make you reconsider this..

And I'm confused why you keep focusing on telling the kids about the separation WITH your wife. Talking to your kids about this is going to be a continual process, not one little meeting between all of you and things will be fine after that. I've been separated since October, filed in November, and even tonight I was still reassuring the kids that they did nothing wrong, mommy and daddy won't be getting back together, and telling them that I will always love them. Your wife is NOT going to be there for tons of conversations in the future you will be having with your kids about this. She's not going to be there when they ask you questions or break your heart when they tell you they still wish you guys would get back together. In fact, I have a feeling she will be like my STBX and will try to alienate you from them and tell them lies to make herself not seem so bad, just as my STBX lies to my children all the damn time. "No boys, OW is just a friend. Even though she is here every time you are and you see us sleeping on the couch together, she's just a friend. It's your mom's fault we aren't together."

You need to STOP trying to do things with your wife. DETACH from her and stop trying to play "happy family." You are confusing the hell out of your children. Time for them to start learning that mommy and daddy both love them, but mommy and daddy have separate lives now and will NOT be having any more "happy family" time. They do not need you guys to do this. Perhaps they need to hear that you guys are separating, and you guys need to actually separate already, and you need to start building your own relationships with the children. Being polite co-parents is definitely an advantage, but I think playing happy family once in a while, thinking it will benefit the kids, actually confuses them more and gives them false hope. Perhaps this can happen when YOU stop having false hope..

I guess first you need to be firm in your decision about the fact that this relationship is over, and then you can start working with the kids on reassuring them that even though the relationship is over, your love for them will continue. I think you being confused about what you want is pouring over into them, making them confused about what is going on..

"Emotional trainwreck looking for someone new to whom to cling."

Ugh. No wonder everyone is so worried about the kids. They are witnessing too much of this. You need to get yourself together emotionally and make some firm decisions and focus on what YOU can do for your kids and STOP worrying about what she will or will not do.

My last thought. I think every wayward should be shown the door in the beginning. Then, they can fight like hell to get back in or walk away. This will either lead to a healthy relationship or a healthy detachment. Sounds like you are trying every trick you can think of to keep her from walking out the door, but pulling her back and "clinging" to her is NOT going to lead to a healthy relationship.. It's like you are begging for her back, even though you know it won't be a true reconciliation where she admits her faults and gives transparency and does all the work to make you trust her again. It's like you are begging her for a Rugsweep of this affair, and you're mad that she's not even willing to do that. You deserve so much better than this, and I hope continue figuring out why you are doing this, low self-esteem, co-dependency, actually believing her blameshifting and taking responsibility for her affair, whatever it is, please figure it out so you can stop letting her dictate how you feel about yourself. And you can't do that until you actually detach from her and stop listening to her about what she thinks of you..

Lots of hugs to you Abbondad. As someone said before, I admire how brave you have been to post here and open up to us about your situation, and I hope you continue. I really hope you take some of the great advice people have been giving you that have been there and done that..


xBW~ 35
Two of the most darling sons ~ 10 and 6

Posts: 1991 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
momentintime
Member
Member # 16394
Default  Posted: 2:29 AM, May 15th (Wednesday)

Personally, I don't think his therapist meant go out and literally find someone right away. I think the meaning was to move forward beyondthe WW.


BS-me FWS - him
D-day 8/04
R'd

"Global editing disclaimer - I edit almost everything I post, and I am not going to post why every time."...re: Bionical girl


Posts: 2899 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: New York
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 9:07 AM, May 15th (Wednesday)

AD - You are self justifying your actions in all of this. You are making mistakes over and over. It makes me sick to think of the dysfunction you are putting on your kids as what is "normal".

You my friend seriously need a new therapist. You have some serious shit to work through before you consider EVER getting involved w/ another woman. YOU as these kids father should also be putting them first, making sure they are dealing well with it, that they understand that you will be there for them no matter what. Finding a woman to molly coddle you is not showing them that.

If you feel lonely then do something with the kids, If you feel you need adult interaction, then find a club/group/activity that you can do with other adults, and make some friends. But for the love of God, don't go looking for a lady.

Unfortunately I see this cycle of dysfunction going on and on indefinately.

Hope you find your strength soon. Your poor kids.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 7790 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
karmahappens
Member
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 9:24 AM, May 15th (Wednesday)

Your kids look happy because they don't know what normal is.

They won't know until they try to enter into a relationship as adults and screw it up...then they will go to therapy and start talking about their childhood...their IC will be shocked and most likely cry for them, for their lost childhood and for the shit they had to put up with cuz their parents were too selfish and emotionally unavailable to put them first.

Trust me, I am not saying this to be harsh, I am telling you from experience.

Stop trying to pretend your life, your divorce and your kids are sprinkled with special fairy dust....they are being broken from the inside out and it is killing most of us to watch you allow it.

[This message edited by karmahappens at 9:25 AM, May 15th (Wednesday)]


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaïs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3765 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
redrock
Member
Member # 21538
Default  Posted: 3:40 PM, May 15th (Wednesday)

this is our second time separating. The kids were back and forth to this apartment on Coparent schedule for three months. It has been set up as a second home for them: toys, lots of their stuff. They are used to it. We have been hanging out there almost every weekend as a second home for nearly two months since she came home for false R.

You have ALL been hanging out at your WW apartment as a second home? And it is fine?

I thought you had recently discussed the kids regressing and that is why they went into therapy.

Listen stop adding ingredients to the fucked up soup. Having the kids help her move, planting the idea(by action) that the apartment is shared family space- lying to the kids whilst planning the 'together' telling. And most of all letting yourself and by extension your children be jerked around time after time after time after time. Set your timeline. Set your boundaries and Stick to it, even if you do it alone. Detach.

I believe you love your kids very much. But you have put your wife first through all of this. Now it is time to put the kids first.

For most people it isn't that big one time choice to 'die for your kids' or not. It is a million little choices. Everyone IMO, fucks up some of the small ones some times.

Can you can recognize that you have made many choices to stay in this abusive relationship in ways that are harmful to your kids? If you can start to put those decisions to rights, then I think you can start pulling out of the nose dive.

I know you feel beat up, but in 6 months you will look back on this and be appalled at what you put your kids through. Everyone is trying to get you to minimize that...

Take care of the kids and you.


I don't respect anyone that can't spell a word more than one way:)

Posts: 3151 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Michigan
JamieMc
Member
Member # 37776
Default  Posted: 4:23 PM, May 15th (Wednesday)

Trying so hard to resist adding to this but just can't: Dad, I was that "kid" from the time I was 10 years old until I finally said FUCK this nonsense @ 19 and moved out on my own, literally with nothing but the clothes on my back and couch-surfed with friends until I saved enough for an apartment a year later. My Father worked out of State enough that at times he had his own place. We were told every lie in the book to make us think that my parent's just needed space, due to travel/work, was only temporary, blah blah blah. I remember being about 14, going to visit my Father 's appt. and needing to use the Master bathroom because the other was occupied by one of my siblings. Seeing what was clearly another female's toiletries, cosmetics, tampons( My Mother had had a complete hysterectomy several years before this so sorry if TMI but she had no need for tampons etc... I remember gasping for air, knowing damn well that he wasn't living alone. I felt so betrayed by BOTH of my parents, not just the cheater! My Mom meant well & wanted to help but was so controlled by my Father, she couldn't do much. I didn't speak to my Father for three full years after I left home. I have made my way although sadly am now dealing with infidelity, probably because I married a man who I thought, wrongly, was the polar opposite of my Father. My Father is long gone and with time I have forgiven my Mother, mostly. I believe you have a Daughter, do you want her to reach 50 years old and not believe you cared enough to put her first? I didn't think so. Not discounting your son in any way but I was that girl who's parents Fucked with my mind for nearly 10 years.. Please put your kids on the front burner! If your wife ever gets her head out of her ass, then and only then should you try to be a family. Sorry for the 2x4 but I ache for your children Dad. All the best Jamie


BS early 50's Wh also early 50's. I am Jamie, Mom to 3 great teens/young adults. My WH and I have been together more than half of our lives and married 25+. We are in MC & going to give R our best shot, hoping and praying for a better 2013!

Posts: 112 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: USA
JamieMc
Member
Member # 37776
Default  Posted: 4:24 PM, May 15th (Wednesday)

Trying so hard to resist adding to this but just can't: Dad, I was that "kid" from the time I was 10 years old until I finally said FUCK this nonsense @ 19 and moved out on my own, literally with nothing but the clothes on my back and couch-surfed with friends until I saved enough for an apartment a year later. My Father worked out of State enough that at times he had his own place. We were told every lie in the book to make us think that my parent's just needed space, due to travel/work, was only temporary, blah blah blah. I remember being about 14, going to visit my Father 's appt. and needing to use the Master bathroom because the other was occupied by one of my siblings. Seeing what was clearly another female's toiletries, cosmetics, tampons( My Mother had had a complete hysterectomy several years before this so sorry if TMI but she had no need for tampons etc... I remember gasping for air, knowing damn well that he wasn't living alone. I felt so betrayed by BOTH of my parents, not just the cheater! My Mom meant well & wanted to help but was so controlled by my Father, she couldn't do much. I didn't speak to my Father for three full years after I left home. I have made my way although sadly am now dealing with infidelity, probably because I married a man who I thought, wrongly, was the polar opposite of my Father. My Father is long gone and with time I have forgiven my Mother, mostly. I believe you have a Daughter, do you want her to reach 50 years old and not believe you cared enough to put her first? I didn't think so. Not discounting your son in any way but I was that girl who's parents Fucked with my mind for nearly 10 years.. Please put your kids on the front burner! If your wife ever gets her head out of her ass, then and only then should you try to be a family. Sorry for the 2x4 but I ache for your children Dad. All the best Jamie


BS early 50's Wh also early 50's. I am Jamie, Mom to 3 great teens/young adults. My WH and I have been together more than half of our lives and married 25+. We are in MC & going to give R our best shot, hoping and praying for a better 2013!

Posts: 112 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: USA
JamieMc
Member
Member # 37776
Default  Posted: 4:50 PM, May 15th (Wednesday)

Mod please, sorry for the double post:(


BS early 50's Wh also early 50's. I am Jamie, Mom to 3 great teens/young adults. My WH and I have been together more than half of our lives and married 25+. We are in MC & going to give R our best shot, hoping and praying for a better 2013!

Posts: 112 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: USA
CheaterMagnet
Member
Member # 33581
Default  Posted: 8:36 PM, May 15th (Wednesday)

I wish I didn't have to pile more on you Abbondad, but I do.

You keep trying to convince us that your kids are fine and that you and WW are "playing happy family." Do you really believe the bullshit you are spewing here? You honestly think your kids can't sense the tension in the air? You don't think they pick up on the emotions you two claim to be so valiantly trying to smother.

Please. Pull your head out of your ass for one minute please. Your kids are seeing counselors. They are on anti-anxiety medication. And you still delude yourself (and try to delude US) into thinking that they are just fine. You and Mommy can sit down calmly and gently break the news to them. Then the "happy family" will all help Mommy move to her swinging singles pad.

I have asked you before. PLEASE. STOP. THE. CRAZY. You are emotionally and psychologically TORTURING YOUR CHILDREN!!!! YOU ARE FUCKING THEM UP WORSE THAN YOU AND WW ARE!!!!

For the love of dustbunnies, PLEASE STOP.

Stop lying to your children.
Stop lying to yourself.

Tell them what is going on. Tell them NOW. Do not wait for their mother to be there. I guarantee you (I will bet actual cash money) that she will end up doing something stupid and dramatic and fucking those kids up even more. And you will react and pile more torture on the poor little mites.

Honest to Pete, the kindest thing that could happen to your kids right now is the CPS comes and takes them away! I mean it!

Poster after poster after poster has BEGGED you to stop fucking up your kids. And you keep coming back over and over with "Thanks for the advice, but..." But nothing. But you are just going to keep on fucking up your children because you are a fucked up selfish bastard who claims he would give his life for his kids, but you won't give them something tangible and much more valuable. Sanity. Peace. Safety.

Dude. Seriously. This is bad. I ache for those kids. I honestly and truly do.

I went back to edit this because I was afraid I was too harsh with the selfish fucked up part, but I just can't take it back. My heart breaks for you. It really does. Your suffering is very real. I've BTDT. Honestly! I wrote the damn book on how NOT to handle this with your kids. PLEASE LEARN from my mistakes. Please. I am trying to help. I promise.

[This message edited by CheaterMagnet at 8:40 PM, May 15th (Wednesday)]


If Happy Ever After did exist, I would still be holding you like this.
All those fairly tales are full of shit.
One more fucking love song I'll be sick. ~ Maroon 5

Posts: 989 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Kailua-Kona, HI
Jrazz
Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 9:05 PM, May 15th (Wednesday)

t/j @ JamieMc:

Don't worry about the double post. Happens allll the time. It's all good.


We are what we repeatedly do, excellence, then is not an act but a habit. - Aristotle

Posts: 16323 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
wifehad5
Moderator
Member # 15162
Red  Posted: 6:26 AM, May 16th (Thursday)

CheaterMagnet,

Flaming and attacking is against the guidelines of this site. Please dial it back.

Everyone else, if you find this situation triggering you, please step back. Your point has been made.


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 36428 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 6:46 AM, May 16th (Thursday)

Hi, friends.

We told our children late last night. It was terribly difficult but I suppose it could have gone worse. Both my wife and I kept it together and stuck to the script--literally, we had a script we'd written out.

We assured them that nothing was their fault, they did nothing wrong, ever. They are loved by both of us, we are always always there for them. (Most of the discussion were variations of this.). We tried to keep it brief and save most of the time for questions and fears.

Most of the worries actually involved the coparenting schedule. (We already had this prepared as well.)

Our nine year old was very upset at first, but I think he was not shocked. He was the one with the most questions, and I think he "spoke" for our six year old, who tends to follow his lead in emotional response and concerns. She seemed OK. We tucked them into bed with lots of hugs and further reassurances. They'd calmed down by then and went to sleep.

After, my wife and I both broke down.

Today we are moving her while the kids are at school.

I more than appreciate everyone's admonitions and support in my difficult journey. I am sorry if I did not follow everyone's precise roadmap or timetable. I've done the best I can.

Cheater magnet, your last post took the admonitions too far, and I am surprised this is permitted--to hurl vile names at a confused member struggling through agonizing decisions for his family and reaching out to this site for guidance and support, even as he fails to take all advice along every step of the way.

Yes, I know this is in the name of the children and I appreciate this greatly; however, even if you believe you were in my exact shoes shoes, you are not. Other than some universal elements, nobody's experience is the same. Nobody's. I know my children. You do not. They are uniquely our children. They are loved and they know it. They feel safe and they are safe. This morning I dropped them off at the bus like every morning, and like every morning they jumped on happily, turning back to me and shouting, "Love you!"

I know this doesn't mean that everything is fine; If there is damage they will continue to be cared for and attended to by imperfect parents who love them.

No ending is fairy tale or moves through a flawless narrative, but I feel relieved about this conclusion. Sad, but relieved.

Thank you again to everyone for your understanding.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 6:48 AM, May 16th (Thursday)

-t/j..cheatermagnet...for the love of dust bunnies...

End t/j


Hi AD. I know we're being hard on you. Some of us have gotten frustrated(raising my hand) because we are worried about your kids AND you. How are you today?

ETA: We were posting at the same time. Im glad the kids know,and it went "ok." Im glad they're not moving Mommy out.

You did good,dad. You did good.

((((AD))))

[This message edited by confused615 at 6:51 AM, May 16th (Thursday)]


BS(me)41
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,9
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Happily Reconciled.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7116 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
redrock
Member
Member # 21538
Default  Posted: 7:24 AM, May 16th (Thursday)

((AD and kids))



I don't respect anyone that can't spell a word more than one way:)

Posts: 3151 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Michigan
myalterego
Member
Member # 32756
Default  Posted: 7:46 AM, May 16th (Thursday)

Abbondad,

congratulations on biting the bullet and just doing it. I know today is extremely difficult - eat, drink, rest.... rinse, repeat.

You will get through this - treat it like an addiction - it is! - one day at a time. Just get through today.

The kids weren't surprised - they "knew" - I'm glad you were able to dial down the crazy and stick to the script.

good luck.


Posts: 132 | Registered: Jul 2011
nowiknow23
Guide
Member # 33226
Default  Posted: 7:58 AM, May 16th (Thursday)

Continuing to send you strength, AD. You've been through so much, and I know today will likely be difficult.

Keep breathing and stay focused.


You can call me NIK

Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.
- Plato


Posts: 24393 | Registered: Aug 2011
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 8:02 AM, May 16th (Thursday)

Hooray!!!!

I am soo happy that you were able to finally do this. Your kids will get through this, and so will you.

I think you will be amazed at how good you feel when the crazymaking ends.

When the kids are with her you will find yourself alone in a quiet house, and the temptation is going to be to reach out to her/them. DO NOT DO THIS. This confusing for the kids, and repeats the crazy cycle at her place.

When you feel lonely get out, go to a local gym, join, go for a walk/run. Reach out to old friends, take up an instrument, take lessons,fill your time with doing things for you. You will find that you will slowly start to feel like a whole man again.

Good luck today, and stay strong AD. Do it for you, do it for your babies.

((((and strength))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 7790 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
ButterflyGirl
Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 8:24 AM, May 16th (Thursday)

I'm glad it well with the kids Abbondad. I'm not surprised they were mostly asking about the schedule, because children crave consistency and structure (and maybe that's what everyone saw you not giving them). They need it to feel safe, and it sounds like you just took a HUGE step in the right direction.

I don't envy you having to help her move today (though I'm thanking the heavens your kids will be at school). I would personally tell her to get a friend or something because I can't wait to hear that you have officially started no contact except kids and finances with her (though even those topics can get slippery sometimes). I know it's hard to keep emotions out of it since I'm sure you have so many right now, but she really doesn't deserve your feelings anymore. Be strong in front of her, and in front of the kids, and let your feelings and emotions about everything out here. That's what we are here for

Lots of huge hugs to you!


xBW~ 35
Two of the most darling sons ~ 10 and 6

Posts: 1991 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 8:31 AM, May 16th (Thursday)

Awesome brother. The children had to take priority for a while.

Stay strong today, you are not alone. We are here. Though at times the advise may be/sound harsh, we are here.

Strength as you deal with today! Give us an update tonight. I know this one is going to be hard.

Mojo and brayers


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2540 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
velveteer
Member
Member # 30997
Default  Posted: 8:36 AM, May 16th (Thursday)

((AD and kids))

Well done. I'm glad this went well. You have taken a huge step here and I know its a hard one.

Stay strong. More will come, but this is a very big step. Keep the kids close.

V


Divorced

Posts: 861 | Registered: Jan 2011
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 8:46 AM, May 16th (Thursday)

It WILL get better Abbondad. Just remember that. If I and others on here are okay months or years after Dday then you will be okay as well. There is still more to this journey so be kind to yourself.

When I hit major hurdles along my journey that were emotionally draining I FORCED myself to go do something positive for myself or with the kids afterwards. Just getting out and doing things will help. Stay busy, start a project, go to the movies. It does help to stay busy. The anger phase is a part of the cycle. It will come and go so when/if it goes just know you will be okay and remember to try to do something productive and fun. Always move forward, never backwards.

Doing something the kids enjoy is an easy way to push the sadness away. It's hard to stay down when you see you kids having fun. We got season passes to an amusement park every year. I got them for myself and the kids again this year. Once the wife officially moves out I plan on taking them as often as I can. I know they love it and I can't help but be happy when they are having fun so it will be one of the many tools/distractions I use to keep myself on track while creating some fun memories with the kids.

Now that your WW is out you can start to focus on truly healing yourself. Start digging with your IC. I felt like I had bottomed out but that wasnt' truly what it was. This entire mess you have been dealign with isnt' you hitting bottom it's you climbing out of a deep hole you have been in for some time. It's gets little easier to keep climbing once you stop carrying your WS. Once I stopped carrying my WW I realized that I had been fighting against the inevitable and was finally able to see my own issues that allowed me to stay stuck for so long in a broken M with an unremorseful WS. So I dug into those issues in IC to get them resolved so I can make better choices in future relationships when I do decide to start dating again. As always I wish you the best man. It's a long journey but it is well worth it once you get to the other side. You will come out of this and you will be okay.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
D hopefully official in 7/2014

Posts: 1810 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
wifehad5
Moderator
Member # 15162
Default  Posted: 10:14 AM, May 16th (Thursday)

Please use Abbondad's new post:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=496384


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 36428 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
Topic Posts: 333