SurvivingInfidelity.com Forums
Reconciliation
User Topic: What Does A Healthy Intimate/Sexual Relationship Look Like
IGaveItMyAll
Member
Member # 38622
Default  Posted: 2:30 PM, April 29th (Monday)

Just curious. I find myself saying that it is something I want. Mostly because I don't feel like we have a very fulfilling sexual life. I wonder if I expect too much. I evision having this really connected/hot desire for each other. Mostly its only me that feel like that. I get the "OK" lets have sex. She does get like that just not very often.

I tell my WW about it she feels it puts added presure on her. She bought a book on intimacy in marriage but hasn't started reading it. Mostly she just says she isn't a very sexual person. Our MC said I have to learn more about her cycles and she has to me more open to pleasing me. Its been a frustrating area for the both of us. She wants to be more sexual but says her body just shuts it down. She is going to get her hormones checked and is in IC. It is definitely something I want to work on in our M especially going through R. I feel like I work so much on improving the aspects she had issues with in our M and I expect her to do the same. She works on it for the most part. But this is something that is a bit more difficult. Obviously it makes me even more insecure having her give her body to someone else. My mind movies kick it and I see her throwing herself all over her AP.


ME-BS 34
FWW-28
M 6 Yrs
DDAY- 8/20/12
R

Posts: 332 | Registered: Mar 2013
WastedEffort
New Member
Member # 39125
Default  Posted: 2:49 PM, April 29th (Monday)

Boy do I hear you on everything you said. What my WW has found through IC is that there are some very damaging personality traits that she needs to fix that are preventing her from getting to the place I need. Your situation sounds similar. It sucks as I crave that connection and the deeper connection that could be established if she just had the willingness to try! It would help our healing and trust so much.....and help stop those movies from playing.

Posts: 31 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Canada
IGaveItMyAll
Member
Member # 38622
Default  Posted: 2:55 PM, April 29th (Monday)

sucks as I crave that connection and the deeper connection that could be established if she just had the willingness to try!
Yeah our MC is also her IC. He told me that I need to be patient. That is has alot to do with her self esteem and self worth (Which has alot to do with why people have A) she is digging in IC. I am in this for the long run. BUT when we started R we talked about making this relationship into something stronger in all aspects. This is one of them. I hope in time this gets better. It is a BIG part of a relationship and is my Love Language.


ME-BS 34
FWW-28
M 6 Yrs
DDAY- 8/20/12
R

Posts: 332 | Registered: Mar 2013
AFrayedKnot
Member
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 3:12 PM, April 29th (Monday)

Cycles

I was struggling with much of the same and if I am not paying attention the the cycles it really effects our relationship.

In an average month I get about a 3-4 day window where she can't keep her hands off me. During this time she initiates sex often and in between there is a lot of other physical intimacy (random kisses, hand holding, other touching).

After that for the next two weeks she gets increasingly more distant physically. No initiating but is into it if I initiate. The other intimacy also slows.

Then there is a week of don't you dare touch me. It gets to the point where she will sit across the room from me instead of next to me on the couch. All hand holding stops and kissing becomes pecks. It all happens subconsciously.

Every month when this would happen I would spiral down as she withdrew. I automatically assumed the worst. Her attention must be going elsewhere. It really took months to figure out the pattern. When we realized what was happening it made so much sense.

If I am not keeping track of the month I will still start to spiral.

We started a no rejection "rule". Either of us will participate to some level even if we are not in the mood we will still at least watch.

[This message edited by Chicho at 3:13 PM, April 29th (Monday)]


BS 40
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2633 | Registered: Aug 2012
WastedEffort
New Member
Member # 39125
Default  Posted: 3:17 PM, April 29th (Monday)

I hope in time this gets better. It is a BIG part of a relationship and is my Love Language.

Boy do I hear ya! The waiting IS the hardest part!

As far as cycles, that's a tough one. In my case she was willing at all times with the AP (even if to give him a BJ) during her period. I hope she never springs that on me as an excuse, it will be hard to hear.


Posts: 31 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Canada
catlover50
Member
Member # 37154
Default  Posted: 3:21 PM, April 29th (Monday)

Let me chime in as a woman.

People do have different sex drives and when a couples doesn't match it can be very frustrating. I actually have a higher drive than my H, which was complicated by the fact that unbeknownst to me he had CSA issues that made him uncomfortable if I initiated sex. So it had to be on his terms, which was typically twice a week, late at night when I was tired. Vacation sex was great, but I learned to take care of myself otherwise.

Now, he has done enough work that he can talk to me and is comfortable with my initiating. He never turns me down, but may just pleasure me. We're now 4-5 times a week, with erotic interludes sprinkled in.

I would talk to your W about taking a bath together with wine and candles, giving each other massages, dressing up and going out (my H will wear the sexy clothes I bought him and I'll try to sneak a feel!), in other words focus on sensuality more than just sex. It may make her relax and ultimately maybe more in the mood. Our Sunday routine now includes that sort of bath and it's a great way to end the week!

Good luck!



Dday -9/24/2012
Reconciling

Posts: 1763 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: northeast
IGaveItMyAll
Member
Member # 38622
Default  Posted: 3:31 PM, April 29th (Monday)

My W sex drive defintiely cycles around her menstral cycle. Right after our sex life is awesome 3-4 times a week. That lasts about a week and 1/2 and tapers off. The week before its the don't touch me, dont even look at me that way... She is now open to pleasing me when she feels like that. Mostly so I don't spiral downwards.

I would talk to your W about taking a bath together with wine and candles, giving each other massages, dressing up and going out (my H will wear the sexy clothes I bought him and I'll try to sneak a feel!), in other words focus on sensuality more than just sex.
I do do that. The other day I gave her a full body message..(nothing), the other night I gave her like 3 hours to herself so she could take a bath with candles, she did some journaling... Nothing. I take her on dates all the time. Sometime I get little affection back. I am wondering if her A I look for her affection more than I did before? But seriously I think it has ALOT to do wiht her cycle.


ME-BS 34
FWW-28
M 6 Yrs
DDAY- 8/20/12
R

Posts: 332 | Registered: Mar 2013
catlover50
Member
Member # 37154
Default  Posted: 3:43 PM, April 29th (Monday)

Of course you look for more affection now. And she should be more understanding of that.

My H thinks if he keeps me happy that way I'm less likely to trigger, so even after HB cooled a bit he has kept it up. And, in fact, it does help!

Can you talk to your wife about needing more from her? She does kinda owe you special attention, IMHO. And even if she is hormonal she can still be loving, right?



Dday -9/24/2012
Reconciling

Posts: 1763 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: northeast
IGaveItMyAll
Member
Member # 38622
Default  Posted: 3:49 PM, April 29th (Monday)

Yeah we do talk about it. I do tell her. She is much more affectionate then she used to be. She is caring, loving and actually initiates ( which she didn't do even 2 yrs pre A) I am trying to work through my insecurities and expectations. As a man I don't want to be too needy and clingy. It's a balancing act for sure...


ME-BS 34
FWW-28
M 6 Yrs
DDAY- 8/20/12
R

Posts: 332 | Registered: Mar 2013
AFrayedKnot
Member
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 4:28 PM, April 29th (Monday)

There is no need to feel bad about being needy and clingy. The paradox of the A is that in the WS attempt to fill their low self esteem through external validation they destroy the self esteem of the BS.
The frailty of the WS is transfered to the BS.

You are seeking that validation the right way, from your spouse. Ultimately you will need to be able to find it in yourself but in the mean time that is what your spouse is for.


BS 40
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2633 | Registered: Aug 2012
IGaveItMyAll
Member
Member # 38622
Default  Posted: 4:41 PM, April 29th (Monday)

The frailty of the WS is transfered to the BS
Aint that the truth. I hate that feeling so much. I used to have so much confidance. Was very secure with myself and our relationship... Now its all filled with doubt. Thats why I wanted to focus on myself and not being clingy and needy (I was reading some attraction articles and was thinking the intimacy issues were relation to attraction but I am starting to think that is not the case) My WW tells me how attracted she is to me and shows me. I think it is more her internal issues that is blocking her and letting her feel safe to let down all of her walls she has built up since she was a little girl.

Ultimately you will need to be able to find it in yourself but in the mean time that is what your spouse is for
I lean on her alot to hold me up. She helps me through triggers. She reassures me all the time. She visits me when she doesn't have to. Leaves me texts telling me how much she appreciates me and our life together. So at this point I feel its my turn to find my confidance back.


ME-BS 34
FWW-28
M 6 Yrs
DDAY- 8/20/12
R

Posts: 332 | Registered: Mar 2013
sisoon
Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 5:07 PM, April 29th (Monday)

Maybe TMI ... my basic approach, developed when I was 18, is:

Freely consenting adults write their rules, though I hope they draw the line well before letting blood and doing violence.

If one partner is unhappy with sex, it's up to that partner to bring it up and get the other partner to work on it.

One partner can't complain about the other unless s/he's brought up the issue, and the other partner refused to work on it.

Can't go outside M for sex unless it's an honest, open M between freely consenting adults. If one's partner won't help solve an issue, the other partner has to either live with the live issue or D.
****************************

I was highly influenced by a Playboy interview with a prostitute in my freshman year of college (1962-63 - no pill, a few years before the sexual revolution took hold). The prostitute said lots of her business came from men who wanted blow jobs but whose wives wouldn't deliver. I can't describe how much that turned me off - I resolved never to be that weak/stupid/whatever.
*************************

I ran across what looked like a great book on having a good M with widely divergent sex drives...I just can't find the title or author, but if you think it will help you, look. You may find it.
******************************

For various reasons, my W freaks out about sex. It was usually hard work just to get her to participate in foreplay. (She enjoyed sex, but feared enjoying it, IIRC.)

But ow forced her to initiate sex during the A. As a result, one of my requirements for R was that she had to initiate sex with me 'sometimes' (I didn't put a number on it, but I would have if I had to). It's worked out pretty well, and I recommend adopting this requirement if sex is an issue for you and/or your partner.
**************************

I read the results of a study in Huffington Post a couple of weeks ago that seemed to make sense. The study seemed to show that people compare their sex lives to what they think others are doing.

So instead of worrying whether your sex life is healthy, you could just adopt the belief that 'Our sex life is healthier than most other couples' sex lives.'

(While you do that, though, I suggest talking with your W and working out something mutually satisfying.)
****************************

I've never felt sexual heat. I've felt lust - sort of, 'Boy, I'd really like to get laid,' but that was before meeting W2b. With W2b/W I've just felt a tremendous need to get it on with her, as if my life and hers depended on it. (Oops - in truth, it's more like I feel the Universe depends on our getting it on. (No thanks are necessary, though. The activity itself is reward enough....)

I've never felt heat, but when the Stones brought out 'I'm so hot for you', it brought back unpleasant memories.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10378 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
silverhopes
Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 6:25 PM, April 29th (Monday)

Hmm. This might not make sense, so disregard what is irrelevant.

I think sometimes people get different things from sex, even at different times, but the approach to sex is determined by that. Also it determines the frequency...

For some people, the goal is an orgasm. To get off. For others the goal is to be able to touch their lover's body and feel the skin and explore. For others maybe the goal is to show in a physical way that they love them. For others it's a way to keep warm. For others it's to get a rush and feel alive. For others maybe it's an ego boost - that someone desires them physically, or to hear their partner call them hot or see their partner respond to them - ego boost. Or others do it for the thrill of a certain position - craving oral or doggy or however. Some people do it because after the orgasm and the rush of chemicals, it helps them sleep better. Everyone gets different things out of sex, and many times more than one thing, or different things at different times depending on their mood. Some people have sex just for the sake of having sex. Unfortunately some folks do it because they feel like they have to rather than want to (I think it's the case for some SAb folks especially, though not all - many SAb survivors still love sex).

It would be interesting maybe for you two to sit down and have an explorative conversation about what each of you gets from sex. What sex makes you feel the best. Is there a reward each of you are after? I know that term sounds kind of weird - "reward" - but it might really help to know what each of you gets out of sex that makes it VALUABLE to you.

imo a healthy intimate/sexual relationship is about communication both physically and verbally and, especially in marriage, about safety. That doesn't mean not trying new things - in fact it's the safety TO try new things if you want to or to show or say what you like, to surrender yourself to someone who you can trust. And I think that's really hard to do after infidelity.

Good luck to you guys.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
Sometimes my monkeys, sometimes my circus.
Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.

Posts: 3905 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
LA44
Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 7:29 PM, April 29th (Monday)

What is her "Love Language", IGaveitmyall? My H has been speaking mine and the connection has been better! I know you gave the massage and all that but is that HER language? Or yours? My H offered me a massage last night but I declined. It's just not my thing.

Yes. The damn cycle makes a difference! Day 9-14 - I am ready to rock. Things slow a bit and then rev up again with a lot of mixed feelings between Day 19-23 Just after that and before period, I NEED to have sex.


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2457 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
IGaveItMyAll
Member
Member # 38622
Default  Posted: 7:41 PM, April 29th (Monday)

LA44 hers is quality time and acts of service. I am constantly making dates and spending time with her. Some weeks are harder than other with the kids and work. But even after they go to bed I try and be there just her and I. I am much better than I used to be.


ME-BS 34
FWW-28
M 6 Yrs
DDAY- 8/20/12
R

Posts: 332 | Registered: Mar 2013
Theradin
Member
Member # 38518
Default  Posted: 7:46 PM, April 29th (Monday)

I'm sorry, but it's kind of an oxymoron to hear that a WS "isn't that sexual". C'mon let's face it, do you think she "wasn't that sexual" with her AP?

What Does A Healthy Intimate/Sexual Relationship Look Like

This one is also somewhat easy. It looks like what we as BSs are not in. A healthy intimate/sexual relationship doesn't involve adultery, knives in backs, deceit, and sleeping around with people who aren't your spouse. In fact, it's quite the opposite. A healthy intimate/sexual relationship is one in which both parties share something special, something close, that is only shared between them (not with the bus driver, the radiator repair man, or the girl at the gym). Both parties can open up, be honest, share their feelings and their bodies with one another. It's pure magic. Ecstasy. Erotic. Unique. Sacred.

Our MC said I have to learn more about her cycles and she has to me more open to pleasing me

Again, do you think her AP had to learn her cycles? It sounds like bull$hit to me, to be totally honest and frank.

In addition, it sounds like she has some real deep-seeded intimacy issues of her own, that are likely not a reflection of you whatsoever, and she should find a good IC who can help her dig through this mess to find out what she is lacking in an adult intimate relationship.

Unless she is post-menopausal or has a medical condition, there isn't a "cycle" that should be learned in order to be intimate with your spouse. Maybe I'm old fashioned, though? And remember, intimacy doesn't always have to mean intercourse. It can be other things, too, that you two share that isn't shared with anyone else (yes, I know, it's hard to find things she didn't share with other dude(s), but try to find something, if only one thing).

I would recommend just keeping the focus on her and her identifying what it is that is 'blocking' her from expressing intimacy with you. Once it's discovered, I'm sure things will turn upward for you two.


ME: 33 BH
HER: 32 WW
Married: 8 years
Children: Yes
DDay #1: 02/22/2006 (ONS)
DDay #2: 09/23/2012 (EA/PA)
DDay #3: 12/07/2012 (EA/PA)
DDay #4: 01/03/2013 (EA/PA)
DDay #5: 01/24/2013 (EA/PA)
TT until 04/07/2013
100% NC: 04/18/2013

Posts: 190 | Registered: Feb 2013
WastedEffort
New Member
Member # 39125
Default  Posted: 11:04 PM, April 29th (Monday)

Again, do you think her AP had to learn her cycles? It sounds like bull$hit to me, to be totally honest and frank.
In addition, it sounds like she has some real deep-seeded intimacy issues of her own, that are likely not a reflection of you whatsoever, and she should find a good IC who can help her dig through this mess to find out what she is lacking in an adult intimate relationship.

........

I would recommend just keeping the focus on her and her identifying what it is that is 'blocking' her from expressing intimacy with you. Once it's discovered, I'm sure things will turn upward for you two.


I totally agree. In addition I would add that she probably didn't have "blocks" with AP as that relationship was an affair. It was new and exciting and in a bubble. Unencumbered with your marital history and daily life. She was probably also projecting her best as he was to her. I also bet you didn't have to figure out her cycle when you were dating or first married. Try to remember that. It is one thing I remind myself of.

Oh, and can someone tell me what "TT" means in their profile history?


Posts: 31 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Canada
silverhopes
Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 11:09 PM, April 29th (Monday)

TT means trickle-truth. It's another way of saying continued lying. Usually it means that the WS withholds information or details from the BS and then it comes out at a later point in time. It can feel like another D-Day.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
Sometimes my monkeys, sometimes my circus.
Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.

Posts: 3905 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
Topic Posts: 18