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Just Found Out
User Topic: Wife made out with a guy
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 7:37 PM, April 29th (Monday)

I just found out my wife of 20 years made out with a guy a couple of weeks ago at a convention that I did not attend. She did not have sex but there was French kissing, butt rubbing, biting, nibbling, neck kissing, ear sucking, and heavy petting. I am so hurt that she would let another man do these things to her it's devastating. I'm on a roller coaster of emotions. Hurt, betrayal, anger, inadequacy, jealousy, etc. we are trying to work things out and move forward to fix our marriage. I love her more than anyone on the earth. She was my first and only and I hers. We also have 5 kids together. I asked her if she fooled around several times when I suspected and she lied every time. I think I'm feeling better but then, unexpectedly, the images of them together come and I ride the roller coaster again. When will the images leave and not come back? Does this ever get better?

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
somanyyears
Member
Member # 26970
Default  Posted: 7:55 PM, April 29th (Monday)


..sorry you have had to join the club of betrayed spouses.

..if i may ask gently, why are you sure they didn't have sex? from what they did do, it seems very unlikely that they stopped at heavy petting.

..in so many cases, the ws will lie and minimize when first exposed.. they go in to damage control..

..it is often just the tip of the iceberg.

..can you be sure this type of behaviour hasn't been explored earlier on in your marriage.. she has obviously changed her boundaries, but i would wonder when they changed.

..sending strength for this horrible journey you have just begun

smy


trust no other human- love only your pets
She isn't and never was who I thought..I can't believe who I married and what she did to us.
Me 67
Her 63
Married 42 yrs (together 47)
18 yr LTA with bf


Posts: 4099 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: the sad state of affairs
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 8:16 PM, April 29th (Monday)

I had a hard really hard time believing that she didn't have sex for a while but the session happened in a public place, she was there with a group who would have missed her had she gone up to the hotel room as he suggested. She gave plenty of details such as after the session, she went back into the dance party, sat down and said, "boy am I glad I wore tights with this dress so he couldn't get to anything under my dress (which I know is true since I saw a pic of her from that night). I suppose with all the things I know,it is still possible she did have sex but I am choosing to believe her.

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
somanyyears
Member
Member # 26970
Default  Posted: 8:42 PM, April 29th (Monday)


..
sat down and said, "boy am I glad I wore tights with this dress so he couldn't get to anything under my dress

..she said this to whom at the party?

..was she admitting to fooling around and could she have been covering up her actual behaviour even to the others at this dance?

..wearing tights never stopped a woman from going as far as they really wanted to go..

..dresses can be lifted.. and tights pulled down..

..i'm seeing some red flags here..sorry.

..i've read hundreds of stories here where this happens and months later, the real truth comes out.

..the photo doesn't prove anything and it is highly possible she gave him oral sex.. and i'm willing to bet this guy wasn't wearing tights under his pants!!!

..there is more to this betrayal than what you know now.

..is there a way of contacting the OM and getting his story? is he married? how long have these two known each other?

..there are a million questions that come to mind in these cases.

..take notes and ask her to re-tell the story a few weeks from now... i'll bet the details change and her story isn't consistent.

..i hope you can get to the truth.. I was lied to for 40 years. It took the ghost of the bfOM to visit me, to finally get the truth from my wife.. she would have taken it all to the grave had i not had the dream and confronted my wife.

..i know you are overwhelmed at this point but take your time, plan out your most pressing questions, write them out so you don't forget them.

..trickle truth is a most horrible way to find out and your Ww must know the damage will only get worse, the longer she drags out her truth.

stay strong man..

smy


trust no other human- love only your pets
She isn't and never was who I thought..I can't believe who I married and what she did to us.
Me 67
Her 63
Married 42 yrs (together 47)
18 yr LTA with bf


Posts: 4099 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: the sad state of affairs
sailorgirl
Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 9:26 PM, April 29th (Monday)

calkid,

The answer to your question:

Does this ever get better?

is yes. Yes, it gets better. Then, it gets worse again, then better etc. The roller coaster is totally normal and totally nauseating.

Eventually, the better times will last longer and longer.

It is entirely possible that your wife is telling the truth about her infidelity. My husband actually told the whole truth on d-day (verified by reading every communication between him and OW.)

Take good care of yourself because you need TLC right now. Pace yourself because healing from this is a marathon, not a sprint.

Devastating is the word. But it's not your marriage that's broken--it's your wife. She needs to fix herself. Emotionally healthy, whole people do not have flings while married. Nor do they lie to the person they're supposed to honor and cherish.

Keep posting, and read everything for betrayed spouses in the Healing Library in the yellow box on the upper left of your screen.

I am sorry you're here. But you have lots of good company on this roller coaster from hell!


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
Theradin
Member
Member # 38518
Default  Posted: 9:37 PM, April 29th (Monday)

So sorry your life conditions brought you here, but you're in good company. It's incredibly devastating to learn that the person who is supposed to be the closest to you has violated your vows, your relationship, in such a way. But is has happened to all of us.

Couple of questions: did she reveal this to you, or did you have to ask for her to disclose it? Does your gut tell you she has done more than that? Maybe not with him, but with other dudes? Trust your gut, my friend, it will be your #1 ally through this. Your wife cannot be trusted with what she tells you, especially if she is in this proverbial 'fog'. You may need to do some investigating on your own. My WW told me she was just having an EA with a guy from another state. It was my hard work, digging, investigating, using every resource at my fingertips, that finally led to the fact that she had actually been having affairs on me for almost our entire marriage (starting 6 months after we got married). My point being: it is HIGHLY unlikely that the first thing your WW tells you about her indiscretions is 100% accurate. You may be getting 10-20% of the real story, but you will need to get the other 80-90%.

Next question: Where are you guys now? Are you considering R? Are you taking time to rethink the situation, marriage, etc.? Don't feel pressured into deciding anything, especially by her. You have been the one who was violated and betrayed here. You need to be on even footing with her in order to make a sound, rational decision.

Best of luck to you, brother. Be strong.

[This message edited by Theradin at 9:37 PM, April 29th (Monday)]


ME: 33 BH
HER: 32 WW
Married: 8 years
Children: Yes
DDay #1: 02/22/2006 (ONS)
DDay #2: 09/23/2012 (EA/PA)
DDay #3: 12/07/2012 (EA/PA)
DDay #4: 01/03/2013 (EA/PA)
DDay #5: 01/24/2013 (EA/PA)
TT until 04/07/2013
100% NC: 04/18/2013

Posts: 190 | Registered: Feb 2013
betrayed2years
New Member
Member # 38601
Default  Posted: 3:52 AM, April 30th (Tuesday)

calkid,sorry your here and looking for advice,somanyyears is right,my WS first told about the OM hitting on her, then it went to them talking to kissing and the affair, there stories change so many times, i wanted to believe her too at first when she said "nothing happened" but after 2 years she showed signs of a S.T.D. and was busted big time, then some more truth came out,i know its hard not to believe her,you want to , but take it from one who has "BEEN THERE,BELIEVED THAT " keep a journal of when she says what they did, and where she was, and see if the story changes, do the images ever leave? no, there is always something the triggers them back,be careful calkid, this maybe a bumpy ride on this roller coaster...

Posts: 22 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: p.a.
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 5:02 AM, April 30th (Tuesday)

I agree..there is more to this than she's told you.

I understand..she's your wife...your instinct is to believe her....but she has just proven she can betray you..and trust will need to be earned.


3 years out from dday#1. It's does get better...but the rollercoaster is still there.


BS(me)41
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,9
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Happily Reconciled.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7104 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
idiot85
Member
Member # 38934
Default  Posted: 5:22 AM, April 30th (Tuesday)

Calkid- like everyone's already said- I'm sorry to say I think there will be more to this story- even being in a public place- there are quieter places and if they've found the privacy to engage in all the stuff she's admitted to- I bet she could have found the privacy to go further-

Without being crude- heavy petting in a public place? there's more.

Just so you know- I doubt my wife owns a pair of trousers- still cheated on my 3 times in public places so I'm not sure the tights thing makes any difference.

It's up/down/up/down but it does get better- I might have a down day but I recover quicker than I used to just a month ago. I doubt the images will leave and never come back though mate.


BH-29 (me)
WW-28

Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur.


Posts: 575 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Old Blighty
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 7:17 AM, April 30th (Tuesday)

Well, I found out last night, there was more to the story. We were talking last night on the patio and she was telling me how she hates herself for enjoying what happened. She has times where she looks back and gets excited about it and has to tell herself what a piece of trash this guy was. She compared this to taking a drug that takes you way up on a very high high. Of course, that sucked to hear. We were just finishing up talking when we started messing around outside. We finished messing around and she said, "And he didn't even get to see my titities all the way". I replied, "So he kissed your titties then? You didn't tell me that!" I asked her some more about what they did and found out that he did reach up under her dress and when he found out he couldn't get to her private skin, he massaged her vagina through the panties and tights. She grabbed his penis through his pants and he gyrated on her too. VERY hard to hear this stuff. You all are probably thinking, "Yeah, she did this guy" but remember, it was out on the balchony of the convention center with a bunch of people standing around and some were watching them. Groping and makikng out in front of people is one thing but I don't think she'd let a guy do her in front of people in public. We went to bed and were talking. I was holding her and I said, "Say you're sorry." She did over and over again. Then she grabbed onto me and cried harder than I've ever seen her cry. She was saying things like, "Why are you still with me? I'm no good to anyone. You should just throw me away. I wouldn't blame you one bit if you packed my bags and threw me out on the street." She cried for about a half an hour and it took a long time to calm her down. While I'm angry and dissapointed and sometime want to shake her and scream at her, there's another side that feels so bad for her and just wants to help her to feel better. I am hopelessly in love with this woman. We are going to work through this and hopefully, have a stonger marriage. It's just so hard to deal with the fact that she let someone other than me do all these things to her and that she "liked" it! That's why I hardly slept last night.

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 7:41 AM, April 30th (Tuesday)

Hi calkid,

Sorry you have a reason to be here.

...and it took a long time to calm her down.

You will get a lot of advice as a new member. My advice is to stop taking care of your WW so much, and let her learn to take responsibility for, and to manage her own feelings. You did not do anything to make her cry, and if you think about it you are consoling her for being upset that she made out with a guy at the convention. Let her work through this herself.

I also agree to be prepared for this to just be the tip of the iceberg. Not saying that it is, but it would not be unusual for her to have minimized the truth. They were, you report, making out on a balcony so could not have done more. They did not have rooms at this convention?


LTA BS 53
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4074 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
newlysingle
Member
Member # 38735
Default  Posted: 8:50 AM, April 30th (Tuesday)

I'm so sorry that you're going through this, but I have to agree with the others, that I'm afraid this might just be the tip of the iceberg. I admit that I find it strange that she just met some guy at a convention center and then did some serious making out with him. Who is he? How did she meet him?

I guess I just fear that they may have known one another prior to this event. That maybe this affair had been building for some time. Are you sure that she's not talking to him still? I don't think it's out of line for you to check her phone, email, etc.

You do need to care for yourself right now and not worry about her so much.


BW - Me (37)
XWH - (37) The Gnat
OW - Some dumb whore he picked up in another state and moved here here. Known as Hello Kitty.
M for 8 years, together for 10
1 DD (5), 1 DS (1 year)
Dday 3/13
Divorced 9/20/13

Posts: 803 | Registered: Mar 2013
JH52
New Member
Member # 10690
Default  Posted: 9:55 AM, April 30th (Tuesday)

Hi Calkid -- Sorry you are here. But you are now getting different versions of the story what happened -- this is called "trickle truth" because you learn more everytime.

I believe your wife had sex with this guy -- she is not some teenager -- and if it was work function -- why would she act like this in front of everyone for them to see. Something is not adding up IMO.

I believe this story is just starting for you. Good luck.


Posts: 30 | Registered: May 2006 | From: jh52
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 9:59 AM, April 30th (Tuesday)

She said, we were having problems and was hurt that I didn't care enough about her to come with her so she went out on the balchony to have a smoke and answer her phone. She says she didn't know him. He approached her and started hitting on her. Told her how hot she looked. She was drunk and feeling vulnerable. She doesn't even know his name. I have checked her text messages and emails and they are clean.

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 10:01 AM, April 30th (Tuesday)

calkid,

She has times where she looks back and gets excited about it and has to tell herself what a piece of trash this guy was.

No, the OM does not matter. He may be trash, but she is no more than the matching lid to the can.

What she needs to do is look back at this and ask herself why making out with a piece of trash makes her so excited? What is this fulfilling in her? What did she tell herself when she gave herself permission to flirt, to touch him, to stroke is penis, to allow him access to finger her? What is she going to change so that instead of exciting her, looking back at making out with an OM at a convention disgusts her, shames her, and is a boundary that she would never consider crossing. This is where R for your M (if this is what you want) lies.


ETA:

She was drunk and feeling vulnerable.

Why did she feel vulnerable? Why did she choose making out with a stranger to resolve her feelings of vulnerability? Why was she publicly drunk to the point of affecting her decision making? What will happen the next time she feels vulnerable, unloved, not pretty, sad, stressed, whatever? Will she get drunk and make herself available again to a stranger to fondle her so that she feels "good" about herself? These are issues for her to work through in IC, and need to be resolved before work on the M.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 10:15 AM, April 30th (Tuesday)]


LTA BS 53
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4074 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
idiot85
Member
Member # 38934
Default  Posted: 10:06 AM, April 30th (Tuesday)

That's not a normal thought process though is it? We all get in those scenarios but we don't all suddenly engage in that kind of behaviour.

They might have just met but going through all that seems weird- she's your wife, is it unusual behaviour for her?

To answer your original question- yes it does get better one way or another but- it does sound like your story is just beginning.


BH-29 (me)
WW-28

Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur.


Posts: 575 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Old Blighty
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 10:17 AM, April 30th (Tuesday)

Allowing a man to touch you through your tights and massage your vagina and kiss your breasts is not a normal thing to do in front of people.

Im afraid you're going to find out it may have started on the balcony...but ended up in a private room.

So what if the group of people "would have missed her" had she gone to a private room with this man...from what you've said..she was practically naked with him in front of these people.

Ask her to take a poly.

[This message edited by confused615 at 10:18 AM, April 30th (Tuesday)]


BS(me)41
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,9
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Happily Reconciled.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7104 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
betrayed2years
New Member
Member # 38601
Default  Posted: 3:24 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)

calkid,it sounds like your going to get TT (trickle down truth) for awhile,this sucks because just when you think its all out....here comes more information,and the hurt starts all over again,in order to start healing from this there is 2 ways this can happen,1-keep letting her feed you little bits of her story ,2 and this is very difficult to do, get mean, and tell her you want and demand the truth, because this whole thing is tearing you apart,i told my wife after the 2nd D-Day, i want to know it all, and if you want me in your life,then tell me everything, because if i find out later you left something out, its over, we'll get divorced,and i can find someone who will be honest with me, love me,and i can love back, this is tough because you sound like you love her very much and want to stay married, but for me she lied to me for 2 years,and in that time, i could have been looking for Mrs. right,that's what worked for me, she told me everything,its very difficult to deal with, and the mental pictures keep flashing back, but, i am starting to heal, and move on with my life, calkid, i hope this helps,but prepare for the worst,then after she talks about what happened , decide what to do next.

Posts: 22 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: p.a.
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 3:43 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)

Allowing a man to touch you through your tights and massage your vagina and kiss your breasts is not a normal thing to do in front of people.

Nor is it something that adults do with people that they don't even know....just sayin'.

I can't remember the last time I went out on a balcony and had a total stranger walk up to me, chat me up, french kiss me and then *finger* me....


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7672 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
karmahappens
Member
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 4:08 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)

remember, it was out on the balchony of the convention center with a bunch of people standing around and some were watching them

Sorry calkid

I have a hard time believing this is where they were...maybe where it started, but I doubt they ended up here.

I also don't believe it's something she "just did" randomly. Someone doesn't just go from pure and innocent to groping strangers on business trips....

I think this story is a lot longer than you know.

I would press for the truth...


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaďs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3755 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 4:30 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)

Well, unfortunately, you were all right. I just found out the whole story last night. We live out west and still own a house out east. In Sept., we got a new renter. A few months later, my wife decided to hook up with the renter in a business venture. Multi-level marketing. I've been through this kind of thing before and wanted nothing to do with it. A month or so goes by and my renter's upline, we'll call him Mr. D, comes out west to my house and does a party for my wife. They wanted to go to a club with my renter (a married female) which I wanted nothing to do with, so I let my wife go with the two of them. That night, my wife was pissed at me for not going and Mr. D, put the moves on my wife. She loved it and wanted more. They developed an innapropriate relationship from that night on. There was nothing physical tha night, just flirting. Well, my wife said she felt and electricity between them, loved it, and persued after this guy. There were inapproiate texts between the two of them until the convention. (Mr. D lives out east too so that's all they could do) So the first night of the convention comes downtown, my wife goes, meets the party for dinner, has a few drinks and Mr. D follows her down to the parking garage. They're getting her luggage out of the truck when my wife comments about how good he smells. He throws the luggage down and says, "what do you want to do?" She replies, "I don't know, what do I want?" He says, "Get in the truck". She does. They make out, she performs oral on him. He cums in her mouth and she swallows! Yuck! They get out and that was that. The next night after the convention meetings, there was a 70's dance party. She goes with her party and sees Mr. D put the moves on another woman right in front of her. Then she starts to realize what an idiot she's been. Then the day after that, the guilt sets in. She proceeded to take a few self vacations, I knew someting was really wrong and start fishing. That's when she came out and told me about the whole made up balchony scene and mystery guy. Week before last, she took another vacation back east to our old home and met up with Mr. D. They went to dinner. He asked her for forgive him for what he allowed, she asked for his forgiveness too. They went out to the parking lot for a smoke. They got in his truck and made out again! (This is after she told me the BS story about the convention where we went through everything. She said she was so sorry, cried, I creid, I took the day off of work I was so messed up from it, and I thought whe was done foolling around). Then she does it again?!!! What is the matter with her?!!! We went through everything last night and she admitted everything. I still want to be her husband because I still love her. We have agreed to stay together. I am totally disapointed in this woman. I can't believe she would do this to us. We were high school sweethearts. She was my first and only and I was hers! 5 kids together and I have broken my back to provide for her and our kids and she does this?!!! What the hell? Just because I didn't go to a club with her? She says she did it to see if she could get this guy because she was feeling like an old frumpy grand ma. I just am having a hard time wrapping my head around the lies, betrayal, deception, and physical act that she could possibly put another man's penis in her mouth and swallow his sperm. What's worse is she's Mormon! Somebody help me please to make sense of all this!

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 6:00 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)

If you examine what your wife confessed to it is apparent she is skirting around the act of penetrative sex; confessing to anything but that. The OM is going to concentrate on getting that, not oral or making out. He had time, privacy and an eager willing partner and I believe he took full advantage of his opportunity.

Your wife had full sex with him but she is terrified to confess, so you get the old TT; each day the story changes until finally she will tell you that it wasn't oral but full intercourse. By then she reasons you may be better equipped to accept this incremental betrayal.

Get tested for STD's for one thing, then your marriage is going to need help from counseling. Find out what caused your wife to throw away 20 years of apparent faithfulness for a sexual fling with this guy. First at all get at the full truth; it wasn't simply oral, he got everything he was after.


Posts: 1680 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 6:23 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)

^^I agree.

She had sex with him..probably many times.

Get tested immediately..and refuse to have sex with her until she is tested..and YOU get the results from a doctor.


Stop believing anything she says. She is a liar and a cheater. Right now,you can bet if she's talking,she's lying.

Have you read the 180? I would suggest you tell her your requirements to R..full transparency,honesty,NC,IC,MC,and anything else you feel you need to feel safe in this marriage...then 180 her ass.


Im so sorry.


BS(me)41
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,9
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Happily Reconciled.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7104 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
brokensmile322
Member
Member # 35758
Default  Posted: 6:27 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)

(((Hugs))) I am so sorry you are here.

Calkid, back up a minute and really think about what she is telling you.

There is so much electricity between them she could feel it. She still gets excited when she thinks about it.

^^This is what she said to you. This is how she still feels away from him.

Now ask yourself.

Do you really believe that when she got back in front of him, they had a smoke, kissed and did nothing more?

Read anywhere about what the number one reason is for an affair. The biggest mitigating factor is OPPORTUNITY.

I don't say this to hurt you. We have all been where you are. We have all heard the same stories. All WS have the same stories and excuses.

You have to stop for a minute. BE STILL.

We know you still want her. Do not let your fear of losing her cloud your judgement. You are so afraid of losing her, you are putting aside rational thinking and you are putting aside your hurt and pain to comfort her. STOP!

If you are really having trouble seeing this clearly, write down everything she has said to you in bullet form. Read it. What would you tell your best friend, sister, brother who came to you with this story?

We are all here for you. Keep posting!


Me BS 42 Him WS 44
OW Coworker DDay April 7, 2012
EA on a slippery slope...

When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves. ~Viktor Frankl

"When you are happy, you can forgive a great deal."


Posts: 1408 | Registered: Jun 2012
Laura28
Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 6:59 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)

Hi honey

I am so sorry. This is heartbreaking.

I remember vividly the initial horror.

On dday I found out my FWH had been screwing another woman for more more than a year. Had told her he loved her.

For 2 weeks I cried and begged him to tell me if there was more. He swore on our children's lives that I knew it all.

Two weeks later I found out he had been screwing other women for at least 16 years.

All I can do is reiterate what others have said. What you know is probably the tip of the iceberg. So many of us have found out there was so much more.

I am so sorry.

I suspect there is much more.

BIG HUGS

Laura


Married 32yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 60yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA 16+ years).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2738 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 7:27 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)

Hi calkid,

Welcome to the TT club now too. It took me 7 months until I found out the extent to wich my FWW had been meeting and having sex with her OM. I was stunned, I would not have belived her so capable of such deceit. I still do not know the whole story, and where there are gaps of suspicions, I just presume the worst.

Keep eating and drinking water as you move through this. In the shock and numbness, many of us loose neglect our diet and loose a great deal of weight.

Is Mr. D married, if so you should let his BW know.

The questions and comments I posted yesterday still apply. In order for your WW to be a safe M partner moving forward, she needs to figure out why she was so open to Mr. D's advance. Why was she not terrified or disgusted when he put the moves onto her? What need was oral sex in a truck in a garage with an unbathed man meeting? Why was this attractive to her? Why was she feeling old and frumpy? It is not because you did not go to the club. What will she do the next time she feels old, unattractive, unloved, depressed, whatever?

Do not remember if you got the book recomendations. Not Just Friends by Glass and Sexual Detours by Hines are two good ones to help you to understand A behavior and dynamics.

One of the questions I had to answer after my dday was why I felt I still loved my W after the things she had done. My FWW did some pretty awful things and I still felt love for her. In my case at least, this was not a good or noble feeling.

Somebody help me please to make sense of all this!

It is my experience that A behavior is irrational, and that there is no making sense of it all. At best, I have come to accept what happened, I can understand some of the issues that led to FWW making such horible choices, but I do not understand most of it. IC for me did help me to sort through my feelings and get to healing.


LTA BS 53
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4074 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 7:29 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)

You are probably right. Why wouldn't she have sex with him? After all, she admitted she pursued him. Unless, she's just saying that because she feels bad for him because she's in love with him or likes him a lot. I know if I had her alone in the dark parking garage in the truck, her pants would be coming off and I'd be sticking it in her. That's what I would want. She said, she had it in her mind that she would keep her vagina only for me but then, why do all this other stuff? I am so devastated I can't even tell you all. I drank tequilla last night to numb the pain. Woke up at 2:00 a.m. and couldn't sleep. I drank some more tequilla. Not a good choice as it messed me up pretty good. Before long I was lying face up on the kitchen floor crying like a baby. I went upstairs and woke her up. We talked for a couple of hours. We tried to go back to sleep about 5:00a.m. but I still can't sleep even though I'm still drunk as I'm writing this. I don't know what to do. I feel totatlly worthless as a human being. If there was an easy painless way to end it all right now, I would.

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
idiot85
Member
Member # 38934
Default  Posted: 8:37 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)

Do you want to know everything? It seems she's finding all this exciting.

Look after yourself- look at the 180 stuff- drink solves NOTHING!!

You have no control over what's happened but you're in control of your situation now- make decisions based on your own needs.


BH-29 (me)
WW-28

Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur.


Posts: 575 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Old Blighty
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 8:58 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)

Try insisting to wife that you must have the full truth - right now. Indicate that you are going to set up a polygraph test to get at the full truth and you will divorce if you find out she is lying. Giving the actual facts right now is her last chance for conditional forgiveness.

As for her story about saving her vagina for you. Really? In the grip of lust and passion, penetrative sex is what a woman needs and desires as much as any man.

She is actually trying turn a negative into a positive, by claiming that she loved you so much that she couldn't go through with the ultimate gift to the OM. Sadly I do not believe this for an instant; I think she wanted to see what it was like with another man and took the opportunity.

Cheaters lie to cover their ass and avoid the consequences of their betrayal. You need to be quite cynical about anything she says.


Posts: 1680 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 9:04 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)

Calkid,
You are obviously in pain. It's very raw at the begining, and many of us have felt the same way. Not able to sleep, trying anything to numb the pain.

Please try to stay away from the liquor though, this will only make you feel worse physically, and also prevent you from having a clear mind.

It is time to care for you. Get yourself to the Dr if you cannot turn off your mind and sleep. Many of us have found benefit with medications to help us rest, and take the anxiety away. You also need to be tested for STD's, from the little she has told you about this guy he is certainly a player.


Read 180, understand this is for you, so you understand that you need to put you first. Start making a list of the things that you would need for you and her to R. No need to make any decisions today or tomorrow, or next week, or even next month.

Right now it seems that you need to get the whole truth, of what has happened. This will help you decide if you want to R.

((((and strength))))



Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 7785 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
Tiredofthepain
Member
Member # 37932
Default  Posted: 9:10 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)

I am so sorry you are here and completely agree that you, like me , are being TT to death. It ends up being worse than the cheating. I have been TT since day one, for 5 months now.

She had no reason not to sleep with him. She admits to you how excited she was by him, they had multiple opportunities to do whatever they wanted.

These are adults, not pre teens, they aren't just going to "make out".

Don't stop asking and digging for the truth. The very least they owe us is the truth, yet they don't want to admit it because they are so damn selfish, selfish when they cheat and selfish when they lie.

They say they lie to protect US? No,it's to protect them.
Please don't allow her keep doing this, do whatever it takes to get the truth you deserve.


ME-BS 48
HIM-WS 38
WS is SA, multiple visits to prostitutes.
Status: Hanging in there

I would rather be told a hurtful truth than a comforting lie.

Posts: 559 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: NC
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 9:25 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)

I feel totatlly worthless as a human being.

Her A was not about you, has nothing to do with who you are or what you did.

If there was an easy painless way to end it all right now, I would.

I remember that feeling. I am now glad I did not successfully act on it.

The advice to not self-medicate with alcohol is good advice. Talk to your medical provider about use of medication to get through the worst of it. I wish I had followed that sooner/more. For acute intense anxiety and panic attack I used Xanax sparingly. For help sleeping when I could not shut off my mind I used some Ambien (absolutely NO alcohol with Ambien) for generalized anxiety and depression I used LexaPro for about a year. I also attended IC for help identifying and working through my feelings. I got a lot of good advice here at SI too. I used the journal feature to write my thoughts, and store information somewhere safe from FWW.

She said, she had it in her mind that she would keep her vagina only for me ...

My experience is that when the WW is in the A, there is no "us". The BS is no longer a "partner", but more an excuse and an obstacle to be scheduled around. I presume that my FWW did everything and more with her OM that she and I had ever done.

Consider asking your WW to write a timeline out of what occurred, when and where. This way you do not have to quiz her with questions, and repeat questions. When FWW finally gave me a sort of timeline 7 months after dday, there were things on it I would never have thought to ask about.

Is OM married?


LTA BS 53
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4074 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
mysticpenguin
Member
Member # 38839
Default  Posted: 9:33 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)

((Calkid))

What a tangled web they weave, huh?

Personally... I still don't think you have the full truth. It'd be HIGHLY unusual for a woman who has an "electric connection" to a man to perform oral, SWALLOW, and settle for nothing in return.

I don't think you should be "agreeing" to stay married at this point either --

#1 - Has she earned you back?
#2 - What has she done to ensure that you can be confident that she is a safe partner for you?
#3 - You're in the first days right now. You will go through a period of shock, then all heck will break loose emotionally. I am not an advocate of offering R so early -- even though I did it myself. In hindsight I already know I should have made my WH earn my trust back BEFORE giving that gift, rather than spitting out my intentions just about immediately.

Just think about this -- it took Mr D. putting the moves on someone else right in front of her for her to feel stupid. It wasn't knowing that she could have ruined her marriage and exposed you to disease...it was that he hit on someone else in front of her.

AND THEN, but a week after seeing just how much her having a physical affair with someone else would hurt you, she DID IT AGAIN! She has no regard for your feelings whatsoever. NONE.

The woman you love, the woman in whom you would be disappointed -- she is not your wife. She either is not that woman right now, or she was always an illusion.

((HUGS))


Betrayed

Posts: 306 | Registered: Mar 2013
toomanyregrets
Member
Member # 37740
Default  Posted: 12:08 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

I'm so sorry your here. No one wants this.

Something tells me there was more than just oral sex.
Like you said, who'd get that far and stop.

You might want to get tested for STD's. You can get at least one from oral.


BH - 64
fWW - 59

"Affairs are not mistakes, they are a series of deliberate choices." - CrappyLife


Posts: 443 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Upstate NY
sailorgirl
Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 12:17 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

I'm so sorry, Calkid.

All I can tell you is that it will eventually get better. You may not have hit bottom yet, but you will not be down in this pit forever.

It's hard to believe when the pain is so great, but in the end, you will be ok.

It will take a long time to make any sense of this, and the only person who can really do that is your wife. She is the one who is broken and has lost her self-worth and her way.

I would recommend talking to someone IRL--doctor, therapist, counselor, pastor, rabbi, sibling--someone ASAP.


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 6:22 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

We went to my wife's therapist who is also a marriage counselor. I have asked her to cut off Mr. D from our lives. I've asked her to write a letter to him telling him that I know about the affair and that he is not to call, text, write or contact her in any way. She does not want to do it because she is worried that he will spread rumors about her and make it look like she went after him and lied about him and is crazy. She's worried that the little town back there, the rumour will spread and get back to her friends and family and she'll be exposed. So she is going to do it but is very upset about it. I've also asked her to quit the multi-level marketing company since it's a direct tie to Mr. D, to let me handle our renter (We'll call her Mrs. H) who is Mr. D's personal assistant, and that at the end of the lease, we will not release the house to her. I don't want any ties to Mr. D in our lives whatsoever. She keeps saying things like, "I will not sit around here and be treated like a person who has no rights or a peice of garbage. I'm a person and I deserve to be treated like one." "You can make me bleed Calkid, but you can't drain all the blood from me." I'm not sure how cutting Mr. D 100% completely out of our lives is draining the blood from her. In the meantime. I've tried taking naps today since I only got about 2 hours of sleep last night and the effects of all the tequila are making me feel drainerd, but I cannot get my mind to relax enough to fall asleep. Everytime I start to drift off, I see them in the truck with his penis in her mouth or I see them in the truck back east kissing and making out or I see him flirting with her or hugging her right in front of me pretending it's only a friendly hug. Then I jump up, wanna smash something, then wanna cry. This is truely the hardest thing I've ever went through.

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
bluewater
Member
Member # 9297
Frustrated  Posted: 6:24 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

calkid sorry that your wife turned out to be like so many other spouses here.

Each time your wife told you the "whole story" it turned out to be just another lie in the series of lies she was telling you and demonstrated once again that she is a liar. So my question to you is why do you think that after all the lies she has told you so far that this latest version is the truth? What convinces you that this version is not just the latest of her lies?

You should try to look at the big picture. She was trickle-truthing you . And in my opinion she still is.

As much as it pains you it is important that you recognize your wife for what she is... A cheater and a liar.

This was not a one time slip. She persued Mr D. She planned her betrayal of you and your marriage. She went back to him after her first sordid episode in his truck.

Please do not be surprised when you find out that she did not limit herself to performing oral on him. Chances are that she did in fact sleep with him. In fact it would be more surprising if she did not sleep with him than if she did.

Again remember... She is a cheat and a liar who lied and cheated and betrayed you, your marriage and your family.

Sorry that you find yourself here and sorry for being so blunt.


ps: The mind movies are really hell aren't they?


Posts: 488 | Registered: Jan 2006
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 6:31 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

She agreed to a polygraph today to prove they didnt' have sex. I've also got it on good authority from my sister-in-law (my brother's wife) that they didn't. You're right, she is a liar and I can't believe that the affair is even over. That may be why she is really so upset about sending the letter cutting it off. I'm going to go ahead and set up the poly.

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
bluewater
Member
Member # 9297
Default  Posted: 6:36 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

She keeps saying things like, "I will not sit around here and be treated like a person who has no rights or a peice of garbage. I'm a person and I deserve to be treated like one." "You can make me bleed Calkid, but you can't drain all the blood from me." I'm not sure how cutting Mr. D 100% completely out of our lives is draining the blood from her.

calkid these are not the words of a remorseful WS. Not that her words are worth anything.

Sorry man, she still does not grasp the severity of what she has done. She still does not get it.


Posts: 488 | Registered: Jan 2006
karmahappens
Member
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 6:40 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

I am sorry calkid, it IS the hardest thing in the world to get through, but listen to everyone here. Take the advice that will help and leave the rest.

Cheaters seem to all use the same hand-book. You will be shocked to see how much we all know about your situation and your wife...because we have all been there and they are so, so alike.

You will come out of this ok, it will take time and one hell of a roller-coaster ride, but you will get there.

Hugs and strength to you.


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaďs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3755 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
bluewater
Member
Member # 9297
Default  Posted: 6:49 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

She agreed to a polygraph today to prove they didnt' have sex.

That is a good first step and I truly hope she follows through with it. Many, many times we have seen instances here of the WS will agree to the poly only to try and get out of it later on. Basically they try to use it as a bluff. "I must be telling the truth because I am willing to take a poly"

I've also got it on good authority from my sister-in-law (my brother's wife) that they didn't.

Curious how your S-I-L would know this. And why she would not tell you (or at the very least your brother) about what your WW did?

You're right, she is a liar and I can't believe that the affair is even over. That may be why she is really so upset about sending the letter cutting it off.

Try not to pay too much attention to her words. Look at her actions. Her actions will tell you what she is really thinking. Not her words. And right now her actions and words are telling you quite different stories.


Posts: 488 | Registered: Jan 2006
fallingquickly
Member
Member # 36599
Default  Posted: 7:19 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

Hugs, Calkid.

My situation is similar. High school sweethearts. Onlies. Married 24 years when I found out. I found out because I got HPV. WH said it was a drunken ONS oral. Swore on our children's lives there was no more. Was willing to take a lie detector. 15 months later I found a lot of information including a love letter to a coworker which he tried to pass off as written to me. Ended u there were 5 women over 4 years as well as flirting going back 13 years. I NEVER would have suspected it until the last 4 years. I should have pursued the lie detector. Go through with it. She will likely find excuses to delay it. She will avoid the whole truth.


I am so sorry for what your W is putting you through. They think the marriage will end if they tell us the ugly truth. In reality it's the lying that kills it. You find out you didn't know what the were capable of. That they could look you in the eyes and lie for years. They lie because it benefits them.


My advice is to stop taking care of your WW so much

This^
My WH turned everything into a situation that put the focus on him and his healing. He went to rehab to avoid telling me the truth. I supported him through it. He did not support my healing.

The second "full truth" my WH went away and I talked him through a deep depression and suicide threats over the phone all night. Once again the focus was on him.

Two days later I pointed out these behaviors and told him no more. He could focus where he wanted but I was putting my focus on my healing.

Some important advice:

*Read the Healing Library in the yellow box to the left

*Get tested for a full panel of STDs. Make sure you request herpes as it is not generally done unless there are symptoms. Yes, it is embarrassing but the doctors are really wonderful about it. I was so surprised.

*Take care of yourself. Cut out alcohol for awhile or at least limit it. It does not help and can hurt. Drink water. Try to eat. Try to rest. Get out of the house. Try to keep busy if possible. Down time hurts me. Too much thinking and mind wandering.


Remember, there is someone here who has been through every situation. We are here for advice, a shoulder to cry on, or just an ear for listening. You are not alone.

[This message edited by fallingquickly at 7:30 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)]


Me-BW 50
Him-STBXWH

2 Ddays and lots of TT
divorcing

Scars remind us where we've been. They don't have to dictate where we're going. (Criminal Minds)

I saw him, I could not unsee him. -StrongButBroken


Posts: 453 | Registered: Aug 2012
sadtoo
Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 7:20 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

"I will not sit around here and be treated like a person who has no rights or a peice of garbage. I'm a person and I deserve to be treated like one." "You can make me bleed Calkid, but you can't drain all the blood from me."

Wow! She sounds real sorry....NOT.

I don't know. Sounds to me like she is still involved with this guy. And I also agree with the others. You haven't heard the whole ugly truth yet.

It might be time for you to pull back. Don't be so eager to want to reconcile (or let her know you do). She needs to worry a little bit about what all she has to lose.

Right now she has you willing to do everything and everything to make the marriage work. And she's got that idiot waiting in the wings. She's driving this thing while you just ride along.

Take her up on the polygraph. But be prepared for more bombs to drop. And have your consequences spelled out before she flunks. More importantly be prepared to follow through on those consequences.


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7991 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 5:03 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Well, whe says that she didn't have sex with him because she wasn't looking for sex. She loved the attention and needed someone to validate her as more than a house wife and mother. She didn't need sex from Mr. D because she was getting sex from me. She also says that her vagina was off limits because it was for me alone. She had 5 of my babies with that thing. Now, it may be she's telling the truth about that but I'd never know it because she's proven time and time again that she is very capable of lying. And, I'm not at the point where I believe this fling has been cut off with Mr. D either. I have listened to several interviews about how the spouses act when they are caught and how they act then they are asked to send the cut off letter and she's acting exactly how the experts say they will act. They don't want to send the letter if the guy is still waiting in the wings. They lash out and get mad when they feel they are being bullied of driven to do things they don't want to do. When, they're no long in control if they want to stay in the marriage. This whole thing is just horrible and I wish I were not going through it.

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
idiot85
Member
Member # 38934
Default  Posted: 5:15 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

She also says that her vagina was off limits because it was for me alone

or

he massaged her vagina through the panties and tights.

Which is it? Or is a massage OK?

I'm sorry- I know you know your wife best but- seems like you're getting bullshit from her.

I think you need to take some control now- tell her what you need- if she wants R let her work at it!!!


BH-29 (me)
WW-28

Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur.


Posts: 575 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Old Blighty
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 5:23 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Oh yeah, the other night when she was supposedly telling me the whole truth, she said that Mr. D did not see her boobs nor did he suck on them. "He kissed my chest region." Last night in bed she told me he took her boobs out of her shirt and kissed them. I asked her why she didn't tell me before that he did that she says, "It was just a little detail" and "it was too much information at once". What? Either you are going to tell the truth or you aren't.

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 5:57 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

She made me promis the other night that I wouldn't talk to Mr. D or contact him in any way before she would tell me any details. She swore she would leave if I did. So, I promised. Now, I have his home and cell numbers and he's actually one of my "friends" on facebook. Should I go back on my promise and just contact him anyway? She swears she doesn't want to send the cancellation letter because she doesn't want anymore shame but I think its because she hasn't ended things with him or she's afraid I'll find out she did have sex with him. I was asking her what all her apprehentions were about sending the letter in the car last night and she actually said, "I promised I wouldn't tell" I hit the roof! I yelled, "You promised you'd never cheat!" She shut down. She also told me that the more I talk about it, the more she's have trouble not thinking about it too. She also said, part of her still looks back on the memories of being with him with fondness and excitement. Horrible to hear your wife tell you something like that man. HORRIBLE

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
5yrsout
Member
Member # 32109
Default  Posted: 6:13 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

((((Calkid))))

Hugs and more hugs.

This doesn't bode well.
I know you are hoping for another outcome, but your wife is DEEP in her FOG. If you don't believe in the fog, let's just say then she is NOT remorseful - AT ALL.

"I promised I wouldn't tell" I hit the roof! I yelled, "You promised you'd never cheat!" She shut down. She also told me that the more I talk about it, the more she's have trouble not thinking about it too. She also said, part of her still looks back on the memories of being with him with fondness and excitement. Horrible to hear your wife tell you something like that man. HORRIBLE

Dear lord, this has got to be one of the most f'd up things I've read lately. She really has built up some resentment toward you. My fWH did the same thing. In order to justify his sh*tty behavior, he DEMONIZED me. I don't know if he ever looked back realistically and saw otherwise. I think he may still believe I was so evil I deserved all the pain I got.

I know you want this to work out. I know it hurts. But, until she is owning her stuff and feels some REMORSE, you are spinning your wheels.

YOU DO NOT DESERVE ANY OF THIS.

Do not let her f*cked up perceptions convince you otherwise.

As others have expressed, you cannot nice / love her back. The only hope you have is play hardball - and pray she will snap out of this self-inflicted coccoon of righteousness.

((((Calkid))))
So very sorry.


Now 7 Yrs Out - my prince is a frog
DD 5/15/2006

Posts: 774 | Registered: May 2011
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 6:51 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

She also told me that the more I talk about it, the more she's have trouble not thinking about it too. She also said, part of her still looks back on the memories of being with him with fondness and excitement.
calkid,

FWW said this same thing to me almost word for word in the weeks after dday. Six months later when the TT stopped (for the most part) I found out the sex was much more frequent, I found out about stexting, pictures and phone sex.

From what you are posting she is at least hiding more of the truth, and at worst hoping to rugsweep and get back with OM. Ask for the timeline and use the lie detector to confirm. Had I done that I would have saved 3-4 months of anguish.


LTA BS 53
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4074 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
traildad
Member
Member # 35258
Default  Posted: 7:15 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Listen to the folks on here. You need to take control of this situation right now. I know it's scary as hell, I was there a year ago. I tried to "nice" my way through things. The only thing that can save your marriage is you taking control. Now!

My XWW did the exact same things. Almost word for word. Don't believe anything she tells you. Do you want to save your marriage? Then you need to stand up for it. She's deep in the fog. Don't try to rationalize.

Here's what I learned I should've done. Everyone on here told me to and I didn't listen. I didn't want to listen. Demand immediate NC (send the letter Now!) and full access to phones, whereabouts, etc OR you file for D. It seems counterintuitive but she will respect you for doing so. I believe if I would have done this I may have saved my M. She needs to see you are serious and strong enough to fight for your M. Visit a lawyer and get a business card, even that will get her attention. You don't deserve this. You can only work on the M after she is snapped out of her fantasy. She's trying to have both right now, her fantasy and her M. Make her choose, and the sooner you do the better. It's hard man, I know. I didn't do it. When I finally did it was too late. Strength.


Me BH - 33
3 beautiful young children
DDay 12/13/11
Divorced.

Posts: 650 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Michigan
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 7:33 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Your wife has lost a lot of respect for you over the years; 5 kids and their needs and the sheer familiarity of day to day living stripped the value from you.

If you couple this with the fact that she has no fear that you will leave, [think of the CS alone!], mainly because you obviously love her totally and completely. Then she has the power in this relationship not you.

You are in serious trouble. She has no remorse and I suspect she intends to cheat again when the opportunity arises. All this because WW has lost all respect for you.

Your problem is how to reestablish your status in the marriage and stop letting your WW take you and the relationship for granted. Toughen up, or be prepared for more misery to come.


Posts: 1680 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
damaged71
Member
Member # 36004
Default  Posted: 8:41 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

I know you are reading this and saying to yourself how is it possible that these people can be so sure about the behavior of my wife.

Let me put it to you this way.
It's like a movie you have watched. You only need to see it once to know EXACTLY what's happening as it's unfolding. This is really no different.

There is only one script for these things and they all seem to follow it. Your story sounds exactly like my story and the one everyone else here has lived through. IT'S ALL THE SAME.

My wife did EXACTLY the same thing that yours is. EXACTLY.
First it was just friends. Then it was a little more. Then it was a little more.


To her the truth was only what I had separately found out. She admitted NOTHING and is still in denial.

This is what I would do if I had it to do over again.

Contact the OM. Tell him he has 2 hours to send you a detailed timeline on EVERYTHING that happened or you will tell his wife.

If you don't get it, tell his wife immediately. If you get it, send it to her anyway.

You still don't know the truth and she is still in contact with him. I'd bet my next paycheck on that.

Go forward with the polygraph, I think she is bluffing you.

ETA If I had it to do over again I would have filed for divorce. Did I want to work it out? Sure I did but it would have saved me a world of heartache. You can't bring them back around with love. It just ain't gonna happen. This is a wake up call situation.

If I would have served my wife with papers, all her shenanigans would have come to a complete and abrupt halt immediately. But I didn't and it drug on for months.

[This message edited by damaged71 at 9:01 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)]


I didn't know there was this much emotional pain in the universe!
Me 42
Her 44
D-day 5.18.12
Currently in R

Posts: 341 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: damaged71
bluewater
Member
Member # 9297
Shocked  Posted: 9:18 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

calkid

This...

She also said, part of her still looks back on the memories of being with him with fondness and excitement

is about the only thing that she has said that you can believe. And she is probably understating (lying about) the degree of "fondness and excitement"


Sorry calkid but read the responses of the other BS's who will see that the things your WW are saying and doing match the behaviors their WS's displayed. You will also see that they are all in agreement in their opinions that she is still lying to you and that she probably had sex with him.


As for this...

but I think its because she hasn't ended things with him or she's afraid I'll find out she did have sex with him

Unfortunately I think you are correct on both counts. She did have sex with him. And the affair continues. My advice is to move forward with the polygraph. She offered so take her up on it. As damaged71 said, call her bluff


Horrible to hear your wife tell you something like that man. HORRIBLE

Yes they are like dagger to your soul. And the mind movie just kill you inside. :


Posts: 488 | Registered: Jan 2006
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

-slight t/j @ok now...saying his wife lost respect for him sounds as if you're saying he has some responsibility in the reason his wife cheated.

His wife lost respect for herself...that is why she cheated.


BS(me)41
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,9
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Happily Reconciled.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7104 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 10:15 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

CallKid--tell your WW to sit down before she hurts herself. She must be terribly dizzy from all of the *spinning* she's doing.

She was looking for attention and validation--not sex. And she considered her vagina *yours*.
But the action of the story doesn't really *match up* with what she's saying, right? If she only desired *attention*, she most likely would have engaged in *lead him on*-type of behavior.....NOT kissing, letting him kiss her boobs, or get his mitts on her lady bits.

In your conversations with her, she is dropping *clues* that there is more to the story:

"It was just a little detail" and "it was too much information at once"
She made me promise the other night that I wouldn't talk to Mr. D or contact him in any way before she would tell me any details

Right now, the conversations that you are having with her are wholly unproductive, so you need a new strategy.

I would suggest that you sit her down and tell her that you want a written account of her dealings with OM....to the level of *detail* that YOU desire. Schedule and follow through on a poly. And there is to be NO contact with OM....and you need access to any of the means that she would use if they were to be in contact.

She doesn't get to negotiate this or pout like a child. If she resists, then tell her that *sharing* her is distasteful to you and something that you are unwilling to do.

And then just be civil to her. No more questioning. No more emotional displays in front of her. During this time, your new go-to words for anything that she asks of you are: "I'm not comfortable with that right now."

You've already learned to not make any promises. The situation is way to ephemeral right now for you to be *giving your word* to her about anything. I got stuck in this trap for a long time before I realized what was happening. Sultan would get me to say that I'd work on R if he *did* whatever I was asking.....so I ended up being stuck. I finally learned a different response: "I can't promise to do that, but I CAN promise what will happen if you don't do what I'm asking."

Situations like I'm seeing in your posts can quickly turn into unproductive power struggles that can go on for years. BTDT. Those power struggles are emotionally draining and torturous for a BS.....so try to avoid this.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7672 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
Whatdoido333
Member
Member # 36597
Default  Posted: 10:47 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Sending you hugs.... My H was/is in a LTA EA. I confronted the OW more than once. She said she would back off and did for a while. Then she got mad at me!! H and OW work together. I think communication between them is slowing down but I'm not sure. In any case the OW lied and lied...and blames me! She's having an EA with my H and she's mad at me!!!
bottom line..they know what they are doing is wrong...and they don't care....they are all the same...

Posts: 116 | Registered: Aug 2012
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 11:05 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

She made me promis the other night that I wouldn't talk to Mr. D or contact him in any way before she would tell me any details. She swore she would leave if I did.

Let her go.

Until she changes her attitude she is toxic to you. You aren't going to Nice some sense into your WW.

God, I am angry because this is the same shit my wife tried to pull when she was discovered.

She doesn't want you to talk to the OM most likely because she doesn't want you to find out the truth, or because she is hoping to continue with him (or still is). Both of these are unacceptable.

Other people have given you good advice. Please listen to them. I am only chiming in because this is the same kind of stuff my wife did when she was discovered.

I mean really...she's going to leave you? sorry that's f-d up.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1272 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
sadtoo
Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 3:11 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Calkid,
We all understand that need to hang on to that last bit of hope that our spouse certainly wouldn't lie about ________because they promised or swore ________. We've all been there. And we've all clung to that hope or promise in one form or another. But in the end my friend, it's really only denial on your part.

The others are right and you are getting excellent advice. You cannot love her out of this. Actually, the nicer you are at this point, the worst I fear it will be for you.

Please go back and reread this thread from the beginning. It is not a coincidence that the members here knew before you what was going on.

Please protect yourself. This is going to get much worse for you before it gets better.

[This message edited by sadtoo at 3:11 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)]


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7991 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Angry  Posted: 3:17 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Well, I took your advise. I called Mr. D this morning and read him the riot act. I told him that he was pond scum, naval lint, and the lowest form of life. To which he replied, "You're right sir, I am." I then asked, "Do you have any idea what I'll do to you if I ever see you again?" To which he responded, "Probably kick the sh*t outta me?" "I'll stomp a freaking mold hole in ya and walk you dry. You stay away from my wife and keep your d*ck beaters away from her." The I asked him what he had to say for himself. He responded, "I suck. I'm totally ashamed of myself. I need a lot of work." I agreed with him, told him all of the heartache, pain, and misery that he invoked on us and he apologized profusely. Told him that if he is ever in my state again that he better stay out of my town cuz it would be very bad for him if I ever saw him again. Then I told him that all contact with my wife is to cease. Do not text, write, call, or email and that if he did, I'd hop the next flight back east and find him. "I understand sir. I don't want you to find me. All contact from here on has ceased. I will stay the hell out of your lives. He also promised to not tell anyone of the affair and not to slander my wife's good name at all. I told him that he took a virtuous woman and changed her into a bad girl and that he should be utterly ashamed of himself. I blame my wife for this too for changing but she was trying to run from him and he chased her and broke down her defenses to wear she sunk so low to allow herself to be degraded to sucking this guy off and letting him cum in her mouth and swallowing his garbage. She hasn't let me do that to her since we were teenagers. I also asked him to recount the events of the physical encounters and his story matches up perfectly with my wife's. He did not touch her vagina except through her jeans. This matches up with my wife's version, and the version she told my sister-in-law, who is her best friend. No need for a lie detecter. I'm done investigating. I know all the facts finally. This feels so good! This is the best I've felt in the last 48 hours. I've got my balls back!!! Before this conversation took place I was walking around in a quagmire of confusion, heartache, doubt, and anger. So, I told my wife that I was going to come home, pack a bag, and stay with a friend a few days. She said, "I didn't sleep with him nor did he touch my p*ssy! Fine, I'll see you when you get home." About 1/2 hour I got off the phone with Mr. D, she said she sent the non-contact letter in a text. I have told her to save the texts. She said she texted him and asked if he could talk to which he responded, "Nope", She asked why and he responded, "I'm not allowed to talk to you at all anymore." She then texted, "Calkid knows!" He said, "Yep" She said, "It's over, goodbye forever." He said goodbye and walked out of our lives. Thank God!!! I feel like the heavy weight champ of the world! I was elated to tell this douche bag exactly what I thought of him. It feels so good that I was able to do that and that after I threatened not to come home, my wife sent the letter. I feel like the Mack truck that has been sitting on my chest is rolling away. Still hurts tremendously to think of my wife doing that stuff with him but I feels worlds better! Thank you all for the good advice!

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 4:43 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Congratulations!

Just one piece of further advice. Now you have demonstrated that you will not allow yourself to treated like a doormat, remain strong. Tell her if she ever pulls this shit again she's in for a world of hurt.

You will not allow your WW to ever treat you with such disrespect again.


Posts: 1680 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 5:28 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

I'm confused though. She's telling me that she's sad she didn't get to end it herself. She says her feelings don't matter and that she's being bullied. She says she tried to talk with him to end it but he wouldn't talk to her so now she has no closure. I asked what she wanted to say to him and she said that she would say she's sorry and that she doesn't hate him and that she wishes him a good and happy life. I said, you're sorry to see him go aren't u? She says, it's a loss, do u get that? But then admits he needs to be out of her life. I'm so confused by this?!!!!!

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
JanaGreen
Member
Member # 29341
Default  Posted: 5:36 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

calkid, I am amazed that you could sit there and listen to that. I would have gone nuclear. Fuck her poor-little-me-I'm-being-bullied nonsense. She needs to wake the fuck up and realize that she set off a BOMB in your marriage and she needs to fix it. Don't try to be her hero, don't comfort her. Screw that. She needs to deal with these feelings of "loss" on her own and not burden you with them!


We're both in our 30s. One awesome 4-year-old daughter.

Posts: 6508 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Somewhere in the South
Betrayed67
Member
Member # 38134
Default  Posted: 6:40 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

You are a strong man. I admire you for standing up for yourself and in the end getting the truth you needed to heal.

More strength to you.


Me-BW 46 yo;Him - WH 53 yo
Married 13years
One daughter together 9yo, 2 stepchildren(His from previous marriage)
Various DDdays (see my profile)
ONS and multiple "friendships" with women in various online dating sites

Posts: 131 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: New Zealand
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 7:14 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

So then she says, It doesn't matter, I'll just smile a lot and everything will be better. So I responded, " If you're not happy with being with me, you don't have to stay. If you're gonna be with me then you gotta be with only me and willing to do whatever it takes to make this marriage work as I am. If being a family woman doesn't make you happy anymore, I don't want you to be miserable. I mean, give me something here, you have hurt me deeply. You can't show me such disrespect by telling me you fond of such painful moments or what a loss you feel by such a source of pain for me. I love you more than he ever will or can." She responded with, "You're right." Wow, I've never heard that before! This is so horrible. I'm sitting at work at the computer and there's a tightness in my chest, then its a weight which as the images of those two together and my wife being exited by another man keeps getting heavier and heavier. Finally, I had to go into the conf. room and just let it out. The weight just builds until you weep it out, ya know? When does it stop hurting so bad?

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 7:30 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Its irritating to read how she tries to romanticize her squalid adultery; turn it into a wonderful, dreamy, exciting mystery. A memory she will hold close to her heart for the rest of her life. A budding love throttled at it conception.

An insulting load of disrespectful crap. How can you tolerate this? Does she place any value on your feelings?


Posts: 1680 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
somanyyears
Member
Member # 26970
Default  Posted: 8:05 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)


..HOLY_FUCKING_CRAP!!!!

..after hearing what she said, i'd have packed her fucking bag and given her a one way ticket back to that asshole and told her she can have him.. i'd be fucking done!

..she has zero regard for your feelings, zero respect for the marriage and zero intentions of ever letting go of her rainbows and unicorns idea of their little gropefest.

..she sucked him off and swallowed .. and she wants closure?????

..

..i'm fucking speechless at this point..

smy


trust no other human- love only your pets
She isn't and never was who I thought..I can't believe who I married and what she did to us.
Me 67
Her 63
Married 42 yrs (together 47)
18 yr LTA with bf


Posts: 4099 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: the sad state of affairs
damaged71
Member
Member # 36004
Default  Posted: 8:39 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

The whole being bullied thing is her being mad that you caught her because she wasn't done yet.

My WW finally "came around" when I quit being the doting husband. I told the OMs wife. Things finally went my way when I started caring about me.

My wife and I are putting it back together but I live my life now expecting to get hurt again. She and I both know this though, if she flinches she will be single. No questions asked no apologies accepted.

As far as how long the hurt goes on, its for a while sorry. I found myself ok for a while and then I'd have to blow off some anger. If you don't exercise now, start. It gets rid of that tightness you describe better than anything.

The bumps on the rollercoaster will get further apart as time goes on. You are in for a hard road. You will be happy again.

I was a paratrooper, am a veteran and have lost a parent. The affair was the worst thing I have been through by a factor 10 easily. I got through it and you will to.

This morning I realized that yesterday was the first day I didn't think about what happened at least once. It'll be a year next month.


I didn't know there was this much emotional pain in the universe!
Me 42
Her 44
D-day 5.18.12
Currently in R

Posts: 341 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: damaged71
EasyDoesIt
Member
Member # 29514
Default  Posted: 9:00 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

She made me promis the other night that I wouldn't talk to Mr. D or contact him in any way before she would tell me any details. She swore she would leave if I did. So, I promised. Now, I have his home and cell numbers and he's actually one of my "friends" on facebook. Should I go back on my promise and just contact him anyway? She swears she doesn't want to send the cancellation letter because she doesn't want anymore shame but I think its because she hasn't ended things with him or she's afraid I'll find out she did have sex with him. I was asking her what all her apprehentions were about sending the letter in the car last night and she actually said, "I promised I wouldn't tell" I hit the roof! I yelled, "You promised you'd never cheat!" She shut down. She also told me that the more I talk about it, the more she's have trouble not thinking about it too. She also said, part of her still looks back on the memories of being with him with fondness and excitement. Horrible to hear your wife tell you something like that man. HORRIBLE

2x4 here partner. HELLO!! Wake up! Tell her you'll quit bringing it up just as soon as she rewinds life to before she let another dude feel her up AT MINIMUM!!

She's LYING. She hasn't broken it off. She's manipulating you and you're falling for the playbook hook, line, and sinker. (NEED FOR SARCASM FONT HERE)It's all your fault, you know. OK, So I cheated but it's hard on our marriage that you won't forgive me.

Hard 180. Hard Hard Hard 180.


Anything less than full disclosure and total transparency is pure bullshit. WARNING! No emotional pollution allowed.

Posts: 3686 | Registered: Sep 2010 | From: Georgia
I think I can
Member
Member # 17756
Default  Posted: 9:05 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

FYI, "closure" is affair speak for more ego kibbles from OM. "You're great, beautiful, desirable, blah blah bullshit". She's still wanting attention to fill up that big empty hole inside her soul. But closure--filling that hole--only comes from within. OM can't fill that hole, and YOU can't fill that hole. She'll blame you anyway, though.

She needs counseling to figure out why she gave herself permission to do this. How to make herself happy, and not look to someone else to do. She needs to learn that her happiness is her own responsibility.

Right now, think of her as a druggie in withdrawal. She'll want to go back to OM for a hit of those feelings of desirability. The longer she is NC with him, the more those feelings will fade.

Hang in there.


I'm not the winner, I'm the prize.

Posts: 8788 | Registered: Jan 2008
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 6:10 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

It was a rough night. On the way home from work, we were on the phone. She mentioned not being able to have full closure and one of her best friiends told her that its not really fiar that I get to have full closure on Mr. D but she doesn't. That I stole that from her. I replied, "You don't deserve it!" You did a low down wrotten, dirty thing and you think you deserve closure? Then somewhere in the conv. she says, "Haven't been doing the right thing lately?" I asked, "When?" "Last weekend, we went to those gardens with the kids and to the beach and stuff." I hit the roof! She's right, we did do those things with the kids but remember, I didn't find out about the affair until Tuesday of this week. So I yelled through the phone, "YOU WERE LYING!!! YOU WERE LYING TO ME ABOUT YOUR AFFAIR!!! DON'T YOU GET THAT?!!!" So I get home, get the kids in bed then she's drinking some wine and lying in bed with me and says, "I haven't done a whole lot with my life. You have to remember I went from high school to being a mother and your wife. You need to fill this (pointing to her heart) because if you don't, somebody else will. This will all happen again, I guarantee it." So, I sat her on my lap and said, "We don't cheat on each other. We made vows to always be faithful not matter what. If you're not happy , that gives you no right to cheat. You come to me and say you're not happy, we go to marriage counseling, we work on fixing our marriage, we don't step outside and cheat on each other you got that?" She nodded yes and went to sleep. This affair has her totally messed up. It's like, she has lost her moral compass. I know she knows what she did was wrong but she seems to think there is justification at some point for stepping out. I've known her 23 years and its almost like she's just broken. She's a different person. She cried in my arms on Monday, harder than she's ever cried before, (mind you, I still had not been told the truth at this point) She also revealed to me last night that she was straddling him in the back of his truck and he was kissing her tits again and then put his hand down the back of her pants and grabbed her naked ass then almost went for the gusto but pulled his hand back before he did and before he pulled his hand back she was thinking, "Please don't, please don't, please don't." Becasue at the convention center parking garage, she told him before they started messing around, "Don't touch this. Don't mes with this and pointed to her vagina. This is Calkid's." She tells me I know everything and then something like this comes out. I believe I know most of it but not all. I do believe them that he never touched her vagina or have sexual intercourse and it might be wrong but if it is, I don't want to know it.

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
Cannon
Member
Member # 32440
Default  Posted: 8:34 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

You need to fill this (pointing to her heart) because if you don't, somebody else will. This will all happen again, I guarantee it.

Excuse my language, but fuck that bitch, dude. What a load of blameshifting bullshit


Me - BH, 41
Her - Bi-polar WW, 41

Status: Divorced and relieved


Posts: 127 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: .
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 8:37 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

This sucks so bad. I litterally have never known such horrible pain and suffering. This morning, I was trying to shave and the thoughts of her lying on our bed texting Mr. D and saying horrible things to each other popped into my mind. Then, I thought about all the little things and signs that were before me which I was too blind to see. How she'd try to send me little flirty texts at work but I was too buys trying to be a good employee to take the time to flirt back or if I had only went to the dance club with her, Mr.D and Mrs. H, they would have never had the chance to start the connection and attaction and I just broke down. Then I broke down again in my car and had to pull over like, right after I left my house. Why does every little task seem like an enormous thing to do, like the drive to work or answering the phone at work, or reading emails. Everything seems like a huge task. When does it nor hurt so much?

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
Twitchy
Member
Member # 25393
Default  Posted: 8:46 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

This is common. She's creeping towards telling you the whole store. Getting it out hurts so she inches towards it then pulls back. Then inches a little closer, then pulls back.

It's like being stabbed in the heart by inches. In one inch, pull the knife back, in two inches, pull the knife back...

For us here at SI, from the outside looking, it's like watching a rerun of an old classic drama. We know exactly what's happening, but the character's just keep with the script.

Try this. Tell her you know. Be calm and emphatic. Tell her you know they had sex and just tell you how it happened.

Every time she tryings to deny or explain, just keep repeating in a calm voice, "I know, just explain how it happened."

It's hard to do. You may have to keep it up for a few days, but it has worked.

[This message edited by Twitchy at 8:48 AM, May 3rd (Friday)]


BH(me)-49, FWW-43,
D-Day #1 - Oct 2007 - On-Line EA leading to a failed rendez-vous
D-Day #2 - Nov 2008 - In person EA caught early.

Away you will go, sailing in a race among the ruins.
If you plan to face tomorrow, do it soon. Gordon Lightfoot


Posts: 607 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Ontario - Canada
damaged71
Member
Member # 36004
Default  Posted: 8:48 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

Calkid you might want to search for some of my old posts to see what you are in for.

I could have, and did write everything that you just have almost verbatim.

My wife was simply the warmest and most caring person that I had ever met. One day the "wheels just fell off". She was broken and didn't know what to do. Unfortunately she didn't see me as the person that could fix everything and strayed.

She had the same problem, it was the whole unfulfilled thing. She is a SAHM and hasn't worked in years by her choice and felt like her life had no meaning and so on. In other words she was having a mid-life crisis. In her words "she wanted something of her own". I totally didn't get it.

I also told her that if she wanted to leave I would support her until she got on her feet and after if that's what she needed. Nothing helped.

Finally I said "here is my minimum performance standard". These are my hard and fast rules. If you violate them you are choosing to be single. My wife then replied "you want a divorce"? I told her "no, but I will if you don't choose to follow the rules I have laid down". That seemed to straighten everything out and take some of the uncertainty out of my life.

Right now you probably feel like you have zero control over your destiny. That's a scary thing. Figure out what you are and aren't willing to accept and mull it over for a few days. Once you have settled on the the things that you are not willing to accept write them down. Give them to her and tell her if you do these things you are choosing to be single.

When I did this my wife said "you are being mean to me, you are bullying me....". I told her I am only asking to be treated with the same kind of respect that I have treated you with before, during and after your transgressions. If you can't provide me with the same respect and thoughtfulness I don't want you as a partner. I reiterated that I didn't want anyone else, I just didn't want to be in a relationship like that.
I didn't argue, I was kind but firm.

You are in for a long hard road and I assure you, it will be a while before your wife figures out what kind of damage she has caused. She will be wholly unsympathetic to your feelings. Right now it's all about her.

Also, sometimes you have to play it a bit "soft". She is in the "fog" and really isn't herself. Imagine a drug addict. It's really no different. On the surface they know it's wrong but will continue to do it. Only when the consequences become to great do they stop.


I didn't know there was this much emotional pain in the universe!
Me 42
Her 44
D-day 5.18.12
Currently in R

Posts: 341 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: damaged71
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 8:50 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

Hell yes...FUCK THAT BITCH!

You pulled her onto your lap and told her how *you* feel...she just nodded along and went to sleep.

She told you how she feels..this is all your fault..she will cheat again.

And the fondness and excitement she has for this affair is beyond disgusting.

You shouldn't have pulled her onto your lap..you should have packed her fucking bags and told her to get out..


Yes..her golden vagina..it's all yours...well now..dont you feel special?? He got to "kiss her titties" and "massage her vagina" yet she didn't let him stick his dick in her because *that* is all yours. BULLSHIT. She is lying. She fucked him. You know she did.


BS(me)41
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,9
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Happily Reconciled.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7104 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
Twitchy
Member
Member # 25393
Default  Posted: 8:56 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

Wow, Confused! Easy.
The guy's in pain, lets not add to it.


BH(me)-49, FWW-43,
D-Day #1 - Oct 2007 - On-Line EA leading to a failed rendez-vous
D-Day #2 - Nov 2008 - In person EA caught early.

Away you will go, sailing in a race among the ruins.
If you plan to face tomorrow, do it soon. Gordon Lightfoot


Posts: 607 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Ontario - Canada
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 9:02 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

calkid,

You are doing great, and are fortunate to have found SI so quickly. I was numb for about 2 months after dday, I remember little to nothing of that time.

You need to fill this (pointing to her heart) because if you don't, somebody else will.

So this is something my FWW would have said after dday. Your WW is not happy, and it is all your fault because you did not "fill her heart" and if you do not make and keep her happy she will have another A. Her A was about her. Her not being able to find happiness in her life and looking for OM to make her happy. This is exactly the sort of thing she needs to work through with an IC. FWW would sit in MC sessions after dday and say it was my fault that she was unhappy. MC (later her IC) consistently called her out on this. FWW still struggles with finding her happiness, but she no longer looks to me for her fulfillment. Anything I and the M do to bring happiness into her life is gravy. She is responsible for her own happiness, just as we all are.

Finally, I had to go into the conf. room and just let it out.

I went back to bicycle riding after dday. Many miles I pumped as hard as I could screaming as the gravel trucks and cars went by. Exercise is good after dday to work off stress.

... but she seems to think there is justification at some point for stepping out.

Yep, FWW felt she was entitled to a "fling" because she was unhappy. She thought that her DDs would be proud of her for taking action and was shocked when they were not.

Try to have fewer conversations over the phone or via text and email. These are difficult conversations, and I found face to face worked the best.

She's a different person.

I remember that. I would stare at FWW for minutes trying to "see" who she was. She was not my wife. I did not know this person. Sadly, this was my wife.

Eat regularly, something, and drink water to keep fluids up. Alcohol should be avoided, seriously, until you get your emotions better under control. Have a discussion with an attorney just to know what your rights and responsibilities are.

Keep posting.

--Ats

ETA: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=406548

Link above is to a great post to read as you think about your path forward.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 9:07 AM, May 3rd (Friday)]


LTA BS 53
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4074 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 9:06 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

Please take this advice with the knowledge that I care, have been there, and write this only to help.

Fuck this shit. Believe it or not this is textbook behavior, and it's unacceptable.
"She gaurantees she is gonna have another affair?" Nice...real nice. "She has a hole in her heart if you don't fill it up, someone else will?"

Ummmm, blameshift much? She is doing everything she can to minimize this and to make it your fault.

And damnit man..you are enabling her. From reading your posts, you blame the OM more than her. News flash...the other man wasn't married to you, she was. He didn't break his vows to you, she did. Sorry, but your wife is the adulterer here, not him. He's just an ass. But why do you think he is to blame and not your wife?

I see you taking a lot of blame for this. If you had texted more, or done more, this wouldn't have happened. Yes it would have. This shit has nothing to do with what you did or didn't do. She made a choice based on her own brokeness and selfishness. And when she made it, she didn't give a shit about you or your family. Do you really believe that if you had texted her more than she wouldn't have cheated? That's fantasy.

Trust me, my wife did the same shit to me. Told me that "I could never make her feel as special as he did" Told me that I hadn't been loving enough or attentive enough and that's why she cheated. I call bullshit on that. I was a good husband, she had to rewrite the history of our marriage so she couldn justify the lies, deciet, and utter disregard for her family. I mean, c'mon, my wife was acting like a whore, screwing some dude in family car in an airport terminal.
This is not rational behavior.
Your wife is not demonstrating rational behavior. She is lying. She is blameshifting. She is rugsweeping. This shit will never get better until you take control over the only thing you can control. YOU.
Get off the crazy bus. Read up on the 180.

On the compassionate side. the pain does lessen. It's the worst thing to have to go through. And all our hearts go out to you. Breathe, eat, sleep. Do what you can...it will eventually subside..but it takes a long time. I shook for months.

Plus if it gives you any sense of hope..my wife was a terrible liar and blameshifter. But after she pulled her head out, she has gone to IC and done a ton of work. And now I am proud to call her my wife (again). So there is hope. Just not down the road that you are currently on.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1272 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 9:14 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

(((Cali))))

Dang Confused - That is a bit rough. I get where you are coming from, but I think Cali is in such pain and at such a loss and in shock still.

Cali - You need to take a step back and look at this as an outsider to help you gain perspective. If your brothers wife, or a best friends wife was doing this what would you say to them about it? Why would your situation be different?

She is clearly manipulating you into believing that what she did was OK because you weren't fufilling her. Sorry this is not the case. If she was feeling unfufilled she needed to address that with you not act out.

Please read the 180, and then read it again, then read it one more time. Implement it. Care for yourself first and foremost. This not to make her tell the truth, or defog. This to help you stay sane right now.

Yes the pain is overwhelming. You need to get to your Dr ASAP and get 2 things 1. Drugs to take the edge off so you can function, this is usually an antianxiety med of some sort.
2. Get tested for STD's.

I know you really don't want to believe she had intercourse, but I am guessing she has, and probably more than one time. Yuck I know.

You need to stop reassuring her, and tell her what she needs to do to make this right, and tell her if you hear her pining over this Ahole one more time you are done. (It may take you some time to find the strength to do this, but until she is knocked out of the fog, she is going to continue what she is doing, there is nothing go on to deter this behavior on her part).

Sending you much strength


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 7785 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
Cannon
Member
Member # 32440
Default  Posted: 9:25 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

Calkid

You got mail...


Me - BH, 41
Her - Bi-polar WW, 41

Status: Divorced and relieved


Posts: 127 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: .
JanaGreen
Member
Member # 29341
Default  Posted: 9:50 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

You need to fill this (pointing to her heart) because if you don't, somebody else will. This will all happen again, I guarantee it.

Oh FFS. You better try harder or I'll find some other slimeball to rub my crotch and kiss my boobs? WTF. She is ridiculous.

And how exactly is groping some guy in a parking garage "filling her heart"?

Pathetic. She may be a great person somewhere inside, but right now she sucks.


We're both in our 30s. One awesome 4-year-old daughter.

Posts: 6508 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Somewhere in the South
idiot85
Member
Member # 38934
Default  Posted: 10:00 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

how exactly is groping some guy in a parking garage "filling her heart"?

Agreed.

You should call the shots!!! She is not in a position to tell you what to do in my opinion- SHE should absolutely work through her 'whys' but YOU should work on YOU.

It seems like she's full of shit at the moment- I hope this changes for your sake.


BH-29 (me)
WW-28

Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur.


Posts: 575 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Old Blighty
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 10:01 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

I apologize..I certainly didn't mean to add to your pain.

Pulling her onto your lap after the things she has said..just makes me so sad..and angry for you. you can not "nice" her back into your marriage. Nor are you responsible for her choosing to cheat..telling you it's your fault,and you need to fill up the hole in her heart,or she will do it again...threatening you with more pain..Im sorry..I did sound harsh...your post and the way she is treating you had me seeing red.

You are still in shock..and maybe a bit of denial. I remember those first few days. The pain,the agony. I should have been more mindful of that pain, your pain,when I posted earlier.

I am sincerely sorry.


BS(me)41
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,9
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Happily Reconciled.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7104 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
5yrsout
Member
Member # 32109
Default  Posted: 10:21 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

((((Calikid)))

Very sorry you are going through this. It really is the worst pain a person ever suffers.

I don't want to sound too sarcastic - but, when you pulled her to your lap and said "we do not cheat...etc."

Do you see how weird this dynamic between you two is? Kind of paternal?
I assume if you've been together more than 20 years that she is, in fact, an adult.

Do you not see a problem with having to explain why an affair would be the wrong choice?

Did you honestly think this was news to her?

I know you are desperate.
We've all been there.
I know you want to just love her and have everything magically restored.

But, you are in for a world more hurting. SHE TOLD YOU - She basically THREATENED you with another affair.

In what universe would this EVER be an acceptable dialogue between two spouses??

Where is your anger (at her)?
Why do you think she should be coddled and pampered like a wayward toddler?

I know I am beating a dead horse here - but I am just so angry for you.

And, I guess while I am here, I will also comment on her need for "closure" and her stupid cow of a friend who said "you stole that from her"....

WTF???

This friend of hers is NO FRIEND TO YOUR MARRIAGE.

This friend is a sick enabler. Imagine thinking YOU stole anything from her in this sick, twisted situation...

I know you are not ready to lay down any boundaries. I doubt you will even draw a line in the sand.

But, may I please suggest, when you are ready (and I pray it is soon - or at least before every shred of your manhood is eaten alive) - that you also consider banning this so-called "friend" from your lives as well.

Please do not think I am blameshifting to the friend. I fully put responsibility for all of this carnage squarely on your wife. However, with a friend like that whispering in her ear what she wants to hear - validating her fucked upness - you will never get through to her.

Do you really think you can just move on from here now that you've set the record straight - NO MORE CHEATING???

Didn't your wedding vows allude to something along those lines?

Didn't you already acknowledge directly to her that she made that promise to you long before meeting Mr. Dickhead?

I wish there was a way to hug YOU and put you on someone's lap and gently BUT thoroughly get it through your head - YOU CANNOT TOLERATE THIS.

Not one more minute of her playing the victim.

Gosh, I am so sorry for you.


Now 7 Yrs Out - my prince is a frog
DD 5/15/2006

Posts: 774 | Registered: May 2011
whatlysbeneath
Member
Member # 32665
Default  Posted: 10:27 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

Calkid,

I read thru and didn't read if "Mr D" is married or not?

If he is PLEASE inform his W of the A asap!

It is the right thing to do for multiple reasons, exposure to fatal STDs etc etc etc...

I could re tell my story here but it would just be redundant. Cheaters really are pretty much the same.

You will feel better, hope will return. I'm 3yrs out and still dealling with TT but the truth is setting me emotionally free and depending on Ws action may set me physically free as well.

You and I are similar in that we are good family men. We are trying our best to keep our families whole. I believe that is noble and admirable. I would be long gone if not for wanting to keep my family together, have a real M with my W and protect my children.

Hang in there brother!


Me: BH
Her: WW
Together 18 years
M 17
D day 2010
4 young children
Every secret in a marriage is a lie...I'm tired of being lied too.

Posts: 129 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: Mayberry to Hell to Limboville
idiot85
Member
Member # 38934
Default  Posted: 10:37 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

I would re-read what 5yrsout said- it's good advice.

I do understand when someone you love is behaving irresponsibly or is upset- almost childlike it is easy to fall into that trap- I'm guilty myself. She's a competent and responsible adult- even if she isn't acting like one.

She is not the victim here.


BH-29 (me)
WW-28

Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur.


Posts: 575 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Old Blighty
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 10:45 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

A bit of detachment for you will go a long way right now. I don't mean that you are to start ignoring your WW.....I mean that I think that you should consider not making yourself so vulnerable to her right now. At this moment, you and your WW are not a *team* that is working together, in unison, to solve a problem. Teamwork involves a good-faith effort from both parties....and that is not what you are dealing with currently.

It is incredibly hard to not get *sucked into* that pseudo-intimate conversation that seems so authentic and raw.....until you have time to process it later and realize that you've just been handed a perfect plate of crap.....but were so *mesmerized* in the moment that it looked like a delicious dinner.

Call, you made yourself vulnerable by pulling your WW onto your lap....and she responded by manipulating your vulnerability. JanaG very succinctly translated your WW's statement into *real world* language.

I'm sitting here, just shaking my head at your WW's audacity. It's really unbelievable. Toe the line, CK, because if you don't then I guarantee that I'll do this again. Wow. That's emotionally abusive to the extreme.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7672 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
whatlysbeneath
Member
Member # 32665
Default  Posted: 11:04 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

Calkid,

I second 5yrsout.

Cheaters usually get closer to "friends" that agree with and validate their cheater mindset.

My W distanced herself from long time friends/family that had good character and surrounded herself with several worthless anything goes toxic "friends".

As part of your rules/conditions going forward you should require that these "friends" be treated the same as mr D, out of you and your WWs life forever!


Me: BH
Her: WW
Together 18 years
M 17
D day 2010
4 young children
Every secret in a marriage is a lie...I'm tired of being lied too.

Posts: 129 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: Mayberry to Hell to Limboville
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 11:07 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

Well, I told her after that lap conversation that if she ever speaks to or communicates with Mr. D ever again, or if she ever would cheat again "We will be f*cking done! No going back through this again. I can't handle it. No more forgiveness for any more cheating." This morning, we had a talk. She asked me if I saw her as damaged goods. I said no but I saw her as someone who lost their way and is broken. I asked her if she thought she was broken and she said yes. The I asked her what in the world happened to where your moral compass could be so off as to think that you could possibly justify cheating again I didn't toe the line? "You used to know that adultery was wrong. What could have possibly messed you up this bad in your life?" "I don't know.", she said. So then I left for work and got down the block and had to pull off the road and have another breakdown. I felt alone so I called my sister-in-law who has also had to deal with affairs from by brother to talk. My wife is not happy with her and thinks that she instigates. So then my wife called me and asked if I was talking to anyone. I told her who it was I was talking to and she got mad and said, "That's nice" then wanted to go. I called her back and told her that we weren't talking about the problems in our relationship but how to deal with the overwhelming grief. My wife then said, "Babe I love you so much. You don't deserve any of this. This is 100% my fault. I did this. I did this to us and our family." I told her I was glad she was owning up and she said, "I"m tired babe. I'm tired of thinking about this and talking about this. I just want it all to go back to the way it was before all of this. I just want it to be Calkid and Mrs. Calkid against the world like it used to be." She told me what a great man she thinks I am and how greatful she is to have me in her life and how she will guard her heart agains predators like Mr. D from here on out and how she's gonna communicate with me better and let me know if she's not happy and if any other man ever pursues after her or hits on her that the first thing she'll do is tell me about it. Then she said she will NEVER let anything like this happen EVER again. It was wonderful to hear all of this stuff and if she means it, hopefully she's coming back to being the virtuous woman with a moral compass that points true north again. I really miss and need her back with me again.

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 11:25 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

Brother. It is somewhat promising that she has moved on from the threats. (Don't expect it to last) But here are some flags:

I told her who it was I was talking to and she got mad and said, "That's nice" then wanted to go. I called her back and told her that we weren't talking about the problems in our relationship but how to deal with the overwhelming grief.

So she hung up on you or just abruptly ended the conversation? Why...because she didn't want you to talkto her sister about betrayal? Then you had to call her back? That is some good manipulation. You have to feel guilty about talking about your grief. Not good.

she said, "I"m tired babe. I'm tired of thinking about this and talking about this. I just want it all to go back to the way it was before all of this. I just want it to be Calkid and Mrs. Calkid against the world like it used to be."

This is called rugsweeping. Let's just forget about this and move on. You suck up your hurt and never talk about anything again. I won't do anything to fix myself, and we'll be just fine!

I have bad news for you brother. You will never be able to go back to you and her against the world. Because it wasn't true. She didn't have your back. I am sorry to say but the relationship will always have this scar, and it will never go back to the innocence that it once had. (I'm sorry)

she will guard her heart against predators like Mr. D from here on out

Oh, well that's reassuring. Mr. D, didn't make her do anything. She doesn't need to guard herself. She needs to figure out what is broken inside her that made her think it was o.k. to do what she did. It's not Mr. D's fault. It's hers.

She either wants to blame you for not filling her heart, or blame him for being a predator.

[This message edited by wonderboy at 11:26 AM, May 3rd (Friday)]


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1272 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
Shockleader
Member
Member # 36827
Default  Posted: 11:26 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

Calkid,

I am very sorry to read of your circumstance and pain; I fully get and have experienced it firsthand with a monster, and it is all a person can take, nearly taking the life from you. You will make it through no matter how dark it gets, believe it, and be it D or R, stronger and smarter on the other side.

Now, she has said a lot, but all those words will need a hell of a lot of action till they become true. I know how nice it is now to seem some hope, like they shocked a dying patient back to life, but be very careful here. Cheaters are skilled liars, and many times their brokenness will prey on your good nature and desperation.

I look back at the crap I wrote and told my exWW shortly after D-day, and although I know why I did it at the time, I make myself sick reading it. You must be tough on her always, never worry if you will piss her off, or drive her away. Any opportunity you give her for R is a gift, and she should be BEGGING you for it, and drowning in the remorse she gives you.

Also know how you feel now will change. You may look at her in a few weeks and absolutely hate her guts. This is normal, and so is the idea that you may not want any form of R, that you no longer love her, and what she did is beyond what you can accept. Again, all of this is fine, normal, and your call. She dropped a nuke on the family, and that means should you not want to pick up the pieces, great.

Also, be very ready for the rage stage, and know how powerful it can be. As long as it is not too long, it may give you clarity that seems elusive, and get you the hell out of limbo if in that spot. Again, I'm very sorry for your pain brother, and everyone here wishes you the best!


D-Day spring 2012
Me BS 47
XWW 44
One DD 19
Married 23 years
Divorced 12/23/13 Fu*king A!

The cruel, the unkind, those without honor, feast on the tender heart...


Posts: 608 | Registered: Sep 2012
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 11:51 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

Ok. Your WW seems to be pretty manipulative, so you are going to have to steel yourself. Here's why I say that: she tells you that you need to 'toe the line'. But then, You called *bullshit* on that statement...so now she's changed her method and is trying a new plan of attack.

Do you see this? Do you see how *odd* it is that 24(or so) hours ago she was *guaranteeing* you that this would happen again....and now she's saying that it will NEVER happen again?

She's throwing stuff out and hoping that something will *stick* and you'll just shut-up about it.

The conversation revolving around you talking to your SIL worked out pretty well for her, too. She put you into immediate *defense* mode.

I, and a lot of others, can see right through this crap because we've all dealt with it. I used to fall for Sultan's deflection/manipulation tactics All.The.Time. He was highly skilled in that area, and I had *no idea* what was going on....and so I allowed him to jerk me around as if I were a wild horse that he was trying to *break*.

I used to post our conversations here and everyone would pick them apart, as we are now doing to yours. One of the MOST valuable tidbits that I gleaned (although it took a really long time to *sink in*) was this:

Don't JADE yourself or your reasons.
Don't:
J(ustify)
A(rgue)
D(efend)
E(xplain)

....because when you JADE one of your actions to a person that is manipulative, you are only giving them ammo.

What ^^that would look like in your *SIL phone-call* scenario is this: WW asks who you were speaking to. You say SIL. WW says "that's nice" (even though it CLEARLY isn't) and then says that she has to go. YOU SAY: "Ok, WW. I'll talk to you later. Don't forget to pick up that milk at the store."


t/j at Wonder:

She either wants to blame you for not filling her heart, or blame him for being a predator.

Nice catch.
end t/j.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7672 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
JH52
New Member
Member # 10690
Default  Posted: 11:57 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

Calkid -- your wife and marriage as you knew it 2 weeks ago is over -- done. This does not mean you can't start anew -- but she has to committ 100% to do the "heavy lifting". She needs help to figure out what is broken in her to have betrayed you, herself and your old marriage. You need to get help yourself -- and after each IC -- maybe MC ti rebuild and start again.

One thing for certain -- her words do not mean anything -- escpecially at this point -- her actions starting today and going forward mean everything.

Also, any toxic friend of hers who helped her or condoned this affair --- she needs to get rid of immediately.

Good luck --- it can be done -- but you are just starting -- and a long way to go.


Posts: 30 | Registered: May 2006 | From: jh52
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 12:25 PM, May 3rd (Friday)

I just want it all to go back to the way it was before all of this. I just want it to be Calkid and Mrs. Calkid against the world like it used to be."

Unfortunately, in that old before life you were married to a W who saw mutual groping and oral sex with OM as the way to fill an empty heart.

There is no going back. She needs to own the damage she has done to you and the M, identify and own what is wrong with her that she would allow this behavior within her boundaries, and then she needs to help you repair the M if that is what you decide that you want.

Healing is a long and difficult path for the BS. The ups and downs (roller coaster) will continue for quite a while. For many of us, the real anger does not come until months later when things start to settle down and we feel a little bit safer.

Ask questions and work at understanding what has happened, but I do not think any of us (BS) ever really understand the irrational WS behavior and thoughts.

The advice to focus on you (180) and less on your WW for now is good advice.

-Ats


LTA BS 53
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4074 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
damaged71
Member
Member # 36004
Default  Posted: 12:32 PM, May 3rd (Friday)

Calkid, one thing I wasn't ready for was the constantly changing outlook I had.

She has thrown a rock in your pond. Her action is over for her. You will feel the ripples of that action for a long long time.

I think I hit about 6 months out and was looking for an excuse to end it. That came on me all the sudden and passed after a little while. Be prepared for all of it.

My FWW also tried the I just want to go back to the way things were. I told her I was absolutely ready. I would do it as soon as she could go back in time and change her actions. This is the new reality of you and her. She chose to destroy what you had. She CHOSE to injure you through her actions. Of course she wants it to go away.

For a while my wife said the fallout isn't equal to the actions she did. I absolutely disagreed. She thought I was too harsh. I told her and still believe she will never experience the pain she caused for me.

As a side note, (and I hope this doesn't make me a bad person) I got read the riot act by one of my wife's best friends. She preached how this was all my fault and on and on. I told her I hope you never have the experience to see how wrong you really are.

She has a slight inkling something might be going on with her hubby. My wife told me this. I thought it was funny. I wonder if she feels like its her fault?


I didn't know there was this much emotional pain in the universe!
Me 42
Her 44
D-day 5.18.12
Currently in R

Posts: 341 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: damaged71
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 12:44 PM, May 3rd (Friday)

t/j
As a side note, (and I hope this doesn't make me a bad person) I got read the riot act by one of my wife's best friends. She preached how this was all my fault and on and on. I told her I hope you never have the experience to see how wrong you really are.

She has a slight inkling something might be going on with her hubby. My wife told me this. I thought it was funny. I wonder if she feels like its her fault?

I totally get this! My wife's friends rallied around her. I wonder if they would have rallied around her if it had been their husband that she was screwing?

My MIL told me that I need to remember that my Wife is a woman who knows what she wants and isn't afraid to get it. And that I hadn't been doing enough to keep her happy, so she found a better way to be happy. WTF?

I haven't had the heart to tell MIL that she is doing a terrible job at keeping her Long-time boyfriend happy since he has been caught cheating 6 different times by her. Not to mention her ex-husband who had multiple affairs. I guess my darling MIL forgot that these guys knew what they wanted and weren't afraid to get it.

End t/j.

[This message edited by wonderboy at 12:45 PM, May 3rd (Friday)]


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1272 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
circlingthedrain
Member
Member # 25733
Default  Posted: 12:46 PM, May 3rd (Friday)

Calikid,

You need to fill this (pointing to her heart) because if you don't, somebody else will. This will all happen again, I guarantee it.

IMHO, you need to tell her she is free to fill her heart any way that she thinks will make her happy. The only thing that you require is that she put on her big girl panties and end your marriage before she moves on to the next guy that is going to fill her heart.... i.e. not as your wife.

She needs to believe you mean this and are ready/willing to pull the trigger next time it happens (BTW not to say that you are not justified to pulling the trigger this time if you determine this is a deal breaker).


BH (me), 53
FWW (Her) 55
DD18, DS15
D-Day 12/23/2007
R going well

Wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then --- Bob Seger


Posts: 323 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: East Coast
doesitgetbetter
Member
Member # 18429
Default  Posted: 1:26 PM, May 3rd (Friday)

I would just like to caution you that calling off the lie detector is probably a poor decision. Cheaters are liars, and they are happy to spin their stories any way they want to anyone they want. So when she told the SIL the same story she told you, it could very well be that she spun the same lies just in case you found out someday and she had her "cover" story in place. And don't think for one second that she didn't contact OM and tell him what story to stick to either.

And lastly, it's TOTALLY common for an AP and a WS to "break up" via text message, show it to the BS, and then things continue on underground. So just because she texted him that it's over and he texted her that he won't talk to her, does not make it truth for even one second.

Lastly, if she's an active Mormon, I highly recommend going to her Bishop. Just sayin.


DDay - Dec '07
Me - BS
Him - FWS
Us - Committed
May 18, 2010 - I forgave him fully!
"Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction." Isaiah 48:10

Posts: 3859 | Registered: Feb 2008
EasyDoesIt
Member
Member # 29514
Default  Posted: 1:26 PM, May 3rd (Friday)

I'm sorry I was harsh.


Anything less than full disclosure and total transparency is pure bullshit. WARNING! No emotional pollution allowed.

Posts: 3686 | Registered: Sep 2010 | From: Georgia
numb&dumb
Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 1:33 PM, May 3rd (Friday)

Hey man. I am not totally suprised at your W behavior. We jokingly refer to it as the playbook as sometimes the behavior is eerily similar from WW to WW.

You have got tons of advice and support. I just wanted to add that I see your W behavior as highly manipulative. I would caution you to believe much of what she says right now. Actions can be trusted because they are hard to fake, but words are easy. Especially from someone who almost always chooses to lie to you versus having to deal with consequences of her actions.

After time it isn't what they did with whom that gets to you, it is the lies that they told you to cover their tracks that creates the distance.

You seem comfortable with dropping the poly requirement. I would caution you on that. If there is not anything else, your W should be on board with it. If you sense any hesitation or anger I would take that as a strong indication that there is more that you don't know. You are dealing with overload right now, so you can leave the story where it is for a little while, but I would reserve the right to keep that as an option.

Also your W telling you that you need to fill her up in a significant toxic trait in her that needs to be addressed. Her needs for validation drove her to make this choice. No one can give her enough validation, this is something that is broken and needs to be addressed by her, for her and ultimately so she can be safe for you again.

The closure comments alone warrant her exploring this with someone who has had training. Her worries about her reputation, again warning signs. The main point of the reputation angle is that she already ruined her reputation. Just not everyone knows it yet. I ma not suggesting you tell people about it, but the fact that she thinks that by minimizing who hears about it, it will go away easier.

You seem to be doing ok, considering. It gets better if your W is really willing to work through it. On average it takes 2-5 years to heal from this. Each time a new detail that was withheld is found out it set the time spent healing back to 0. Make sure you can do everything to get as much out as soon as possible. Your W has to be open to discussing this with you. If she isn't, and wants to stay M, she needs to learn why.

Take care.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2537 | Registered: May 2010
survivor_kh
Member
Member # 33738
Default  Posted: 2:08 PM, May 3rd (Friday)

calkid, gently, didn't she say in the beginning that she pursued OM? Now suddenly she is going to protect herself from predators?

She is feeding you lines. She knows it. She know how badly you want to stay in the M, and she is saying everything she can to avoid fully accepting responsibility.

You are a wonderful, loving, kind person who deserves to be loved and respected in return.

When you are ready, I agree with others that you need to 180. You must give yourself time to heal, time to think, time away from her craziness to figure out what you want, expect, deserve, and what your boundaries are.

I would consider still packing that bag for one of you. You NEED time away from this crazy person who used to be your wife. You are worth so much more than what you are getting from her. SO MUCH MORE!

big hugs!

[This message edited by survivor_kh at 2:10 PM, May 3rd (Friday)]


Surviving is important, thriving is elegant- Maya Angelou

you is kind, you is smart, you is important


Posts: 297 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Indiana
Gipper
Member
Member # 32232
Default  Posted: 4:10 PM, May 3rd (Friday)

I tried to read the entire thread, but maybe I missed it if someone told you that the person that cares less about the relationship holds all of the power.

My WW said everything that yours has. She would say whatever it took to make me think things were heading back to normal. She was playing me, friend. Again, just my case I'm talking about here, but it wasn't until I put the stomping boots on that she hit bottom and truly turned it around. I fear that the same my hold true in your case. As long as she has you talking she feels that she can manipulate you any way that she wants. Listen to the wise folks on here.


Posts: 717 | Registered: May 2011
Lucky
Member
Member # 6864
Default  Posted: 4:15 PM, May 3rd (Friday)

1.I called Mr. D this morning and read him the riot act..

2. I told him that he took a virtuous woman and changed her into a bad girl and that he should be utterly ashamed of himself. I blame my wife for this too for changing but she was trying to run from him and he chased her and broke down her defenses to wear she sunk so low to allow herself to be degraded to sucking this guy off and letting him cum in her mouth and swallowing his garbage.

Sadly, you are focusing and blaming the wrong person. The person who really wronged you is your wife, also, she told you she chased him from the west coast to the east coast for a chance to be with him, right?


.

3. I also asked him to recount the events of the physical encounters and his story matches up perfectly with my wife's. He did not touch her vagina except through her jeans. This matches up with my wife's version, and the version she told my sister-in-law, who is her best friend.

hmm... the "matching story" we all long to hear, except... the story matches because the affair partners have agreed on what exactly the story will be if caught. It's the same story your SIL was fed too. "See she say's the same thing too".. and was she there?


.
4.

No need for a lie detecter. I'm done investigating. I know all the facts finally. This feels so good! This is the best I've felt in the last 48 hours. I've got my balls back!!!

Really bad move. She now has you believing what she wants and we all think it's still not the truth. Done investigating? you've only just started.


.

5.About 1/2 hour I got off the phone with Mr. D, she said she sent the non-contact letter in a text. I have told her to save the texts. She said she texted him and asked if he could talk to which he responded, "Nope", She asked why and he responded, "I'm not allowed to talk to you at all anymore." She then texted, "Calkid knows!" He said, "Yep" She said, "It's over, goodbye forever."

Textbook breakup. She refused to send a no contact text/letter ... but after you call him within a half our she suddenly sends him a text ending it? PUHHHLEEEZE.. time to start looking for a secret phone, new hidden e-mails, fake facebook accounts - the affair is underground.

6. He said goodbye and walked out of our lives.

Sorry. No. He. Has. Not.

7. she said, "I"m tired babe. I'm tired of thinking about this and talking about this. I just want it all to go back to the way it was before all of this. I just want it to be Calkid and Mrs. Calkid against the world like it used to be."

***
Ok. Your WW seems to be pretty manipulative, so you are going to have to steel yourself. Here's why I say that: she tells you that you need to 'toe the line'. But then, You called *bullshit* on that statement...so now she's changed her method and is trying a new plan of attack.
Do you see this? Do you see how *odd* it is that 24(or so) hours ago she was *guaranteeing* you that this would happen again....and now she's saying that it will NEVER happen again?
She's throwing stuff out and hoping that something will *stick* and you'll just shut-up about it

Please please please re-read that over and over.

.

8. You need to fill this (pointing to her heart) because if you don't, somebody else will. This will all happen again, I guarantee it.

.

I belive her.


♥ WINE - the other fruit juice! ♥


Posts: 36162 | Registered: Apr 2005
traildad
Member
Member # 35258
Default  Posted: 5:11 PM, May 3rd (Friday)

Bro hugs man.

You have received great advice, read all of it and soak it in.

I will only add that you need to pace yourself, you are at the very beginning of a physically and emotionally draining journey, no matter which way it goes. The next six months of your life are going to be the hardest of your life. Not every problem or issue needs to be resolved each day. Some days will just be pure survival, you need to be ok with that. Weeks even. Take your time and be in the moment. Your work is still your work, your kids are still your kids, be present for both.

Sending peace.


Me BH - 33
3 beautiful young children
DDay 12/13/11
Divorced.

Posts: 650 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Michigan
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 5:15 PM, May 3rd (Friday)

I already checked her cellphone records and she did not contact him nor text him for over a week. So, I'm sure we're good there. I'm also pretty sure Mr. D did not know I knew when I called him because when he answered and I told him who I was, he said, "how's it going buddy? I told him he was in trouble and I knew about the affair he responded, "what affair?" After I to,d him not to try to lie to me, he admitted it, so I know he didn't see it coming. So, I think I'm ok on the lie detector test plus right now, I'm not sure I'm mentally strong enough to find out if she's lying about not having intercourse with him.

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 5:22 PM, May 3rd (Friday)

Cali
I hope you are right but as someone who has BTDT. I would just like to reinforce the SI philospohy for those new to attempting R. Trust but verify.

I thought we were heading down the yellow brick rod right away. He had a hidden cell and a new email account that I knew nothing about. So he was more than willing to let me check his phone and email. A key logger and snooping proved otherwise .

Wishing you peace and strength.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 7785 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 5:56 PM, May 3rd (Friday)

Its too much, I can't take it. I'm going to choose to believe the affair has ended, shes in the process of turning over a new leaf. I'm not going to be gullible anymore either so ill keep close tabs on her but I can't be superspie either. I can't live like that. If, she screws me again, she screws me again and it will be over between us forever. Thanks for all the advice.

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
doesitgetbetter
Member
Member # 18429
Default  Posted: 6:19 PM, May 3rd (Friday)

I'm going to choose to believe the affair has ended

Much like you believed the 5 versions of her infidelity just this week already?

Listen, you're welcome to rugsweep and believe whatever you want. Just be prepared for another DDay and years of pain and torture if you do. I've been on this board for 5 years, and I've seen it happen hundreds of times where people rugsweep, and then they come back with new infidelities and they never healed from the first infidelity to begin with. It's a MUCH longer, much harder road to follow to repair damage that was caused, and ignored, long ago.

Just sayin.


DDay - Dec '07
Me - BS
Him - FWS
Us - Committed
May 18, 2010 - I forgave him fully!
"Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction." Isaiah 48:10

Posts: 3859 | Registered: Feb 2008
Lucky
Member
Member # 6864
Default  Posted: 7:06 PM, May 3rd (Friday)

I'm going to choose to believe the affair has ended

Exactly where she wants you thinking.

108 posts saying pretty much all the same thing.

I feel for you, this is a terrible time for you & I'm sure you are so overwhelmed with all of us and our advice... oddly we've been right all along. And it's not a good feeling.


♥ WINE - the other fruit juice! ♥


Posts: 36162 | Registered: Apr 2005
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 7:32 PM, May 3rd (Friday)

Calkid, give yourself time. A week ago you thought she had been making out. Now you are grappling with much more. We have been there and are proof you can work through all of this, but it takes time.

Don't take the blame for her A. Experience and process your feelings, don't suppress them. Limit the alcohol, try some physical activity.

All the things we have posted do not need to be done this week. Keep picking out what you need and can use.


LTA BS 53
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4074 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
fallingquickly
Member
Member # 36599
Default  Posted: 8:13 PM, May 3rd (Friday)

Oh calkid, my heart hurts for you. As others have said, it's early yet. Give yourself some time to even out a bit. This is the most traumatic thing any of us has been through. We all want to believe that there was some line they wouldn't cross. We want to believe that they think as we do, that they haven't changed that much. But, as I found out, that thinking sets us up for more hurt down the line.

Please follow through with the lie detector at some point not too far in the future. If she is telling the truth then it will make you feel better. If she is not, then you will know that and be able to deal with it.

I went through 15 months of false reconciliation. After I found out about what he claimed was a one night stand I worked very hard at reconciliation. However, he was still lying to me. Counseling does not work when only one person is telling the truth. Ends up he was still seeing someone. As bad as the pain of finding out he had cheated was this was ten times worse. I gave him the gift of forgiveness and reconciliation, something I would never have thought myself capable of. He threw it in my face by lying and cheating after he saw the incredible pain he had put me through. I found the "whole truth", if I have it yet, almost a year ago now. Although he wants to stay together, I don't know if it's possible now. I don't know if he is capable of telling me the truth and I won't live without it.


Me-BW 50
Him-STBXWH

2 Ddays and lots of TT
divorcing

Scars remind us where we've been. They don't have to dictate where we're going. (Criminal Minds)

I saw him, I could not unsee him. -StrongButBroken


Posts: 453 | Registered: Aug 2012
mysticpenguin
Member
Member # 38839
Default  Posted: 8:47 PM, May 3rd (Friday)

Please please Calikid... do not let her get away with this. I know it hurts but do not get in... you will only have to re-open the wound later.

Pull a 180. DETACH. Work on strengthening YOU. She has proven that she does not care about you even half as much as you care about her. Detaching will help, a little bit, in terms of pain. Much more than not knowing and putting off the inevitable full discovery... or, worse, letting her think she got off unscathed and putting you through this all over again.


Betrayed

Posts: 306 | Registered: Mar 2013
am I crazy
Member
Member # 21511
Default  Posted: 9:54 PM, May 3rd (Friday)

Let him be. This is all he can handle right now. He'll figure it. SI will be here when he does.


BS 44
WS 48
Multiple OW on internet

"So, So what, I'm still a rock star, I've got my rock moves and I don't need you" ~ Pink

Life is great!


Posts: 270 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Lost, but looking for myself
karmahappens
Member
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 11:25 PM, May 3rd (Friday)

Hey Calkid

Just wanted to offer support. It is such a shitty place to be in.

(((hugs)))

Take the advice that fits and leave the rest. There is a lot of wisdom here...but this roller-coaster has to go at your pace.

Take care of you.


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaďs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3755 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 9:43 AM, May 6th (Monday)

It was a hard but pretty good weekend. Every day being detached from Mr. D, she becomes more amd more the wife I have loved for the last 23 years. She is owning up to what she has done. Occasionally, she'll revert to casting some blame at me for the affair but i quickly correct her and tell her, no you chose to do this and had many different avenues you could have gone down instead mod this. She responds with, "you're right." This guy stalked her and stalked her, things weren't good between us and she was vulnerable to his wiles. On staurday night, she told me,"go ahead, let me have it, I deserve it, tell me what you think of me, exact your revenge, you deserve it, nail me to the cross!" I responded with, "I can't do that" "you should kick me and and send me away." She said. I replied, "you're right. I should.mi should pack your bags, take all the bamk and credit cards, and cash, youre keys, you don't be to take a car because I bought those. I should take you downstairs boot your ass out the door amd say, get to huffing it baby, good luck!" "You,should, you should, that's exactly what I deserve." (She is pretty drunk and hysterial at this point) I said, "I know I should do that, but I'm not going to because i chose mercy. I love you." It was good to see her mourning for her transgressions. Good to see her genuine remorse for the things she has done. I know I'm probably a fool but I still love her more than life itself. You have to understand, I'm 41 and have loved her since I was 17 years old. She was my first sex partner and I hers. Yesterday was wonderful. We spent all day together and connected all day. I saw so many traits of my old wife before Mr.D come out of her. Evrey day since the thread has been cut from the affair, she makes huge strides which gives me hope.

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 12:55 PM, May 6th (Monday)

Cali - I am glad that the two of you appear to be on the road to healing. However I must speak up here, and ask you to consider a couple of things.

You two have now joined forces to demonize the man in this. Hey that's ok if you are working on healing, and her recognizing why she chose to commit adultery, which is what she did, sex or not. Felt it was perfectly fine to lie to you multpile times, and carry on like a teenager.

Secondly. Please Please Please for your own health go get STD tested. I know you want to believe her. I wanted to believe my H too when this started. However as a health professional, I knew all to well the chances of him exposing me to something by his actions.

Negative test results gave me hope, and peace of mind.

((((and strength))))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 7785 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 1:58 PM, May 6th (Monday)

I got tested last Friday and she goes on Wednesday for std's. I'll get the results back later this week and shell get hers probably by the end of the week or early next. We're not demonizing him, i am. She told me that she persued him but he chased her first and put all his charms on her to get her to that point coupled with me ignoring her right before he showed up. I was a shitty husband, he was a snake and she was ripe for the picking. All I know now is, the sadness has just set in. All I feel at the moment is blackness and despair.

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 7:24 AM, May 7th (Tuesday)

So, she went and saw her therapist yesterday. He told her that at the end of their session that he thought it was interesting that she did not mention her and Mr. D at all. She said, "So." He told her that she has had a recent loss in her life and that at some point she needs to mourn that loss. I believe he means the loss of her lover and the affair. She told him that she has messed up her marriage and family and does not have the right to mourn or feel that way. Her focus right now is on me. I told her, that's the one thing that I cannot help her with. I cannot and will not help her mourn the loss of another man or that messed up fantasy lifestyle. You know, the physical acts that they did, they hurt, they suck, I hate thinking about them but the deception really sucks, no texting before 6a.m. because I leave for work at 6, no texting after 2:30 because the kids start coming home from school then, and no texting on weekends, the constant deleting and covering up. Its just so dark, devious, and deceptive and really hurts.

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 7:38 AM, May 7th (Tuesday)

You can be civil, polite and kind, but don't be in such a hurry to forgive. She has committed adultery and disrespected you and your marriage; it won't be, and shouldn't be, the same marriage as before. The trust is diminished and she has shown herself capable of lying to you big time.

This ordeal you are going through needs to be as unpleasant for her as it obviously is for you. Either that, or the next Mr. D will be putting in an appearance sometime in the future.


Posts: 1680 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
doesitgetbetter
Member
Member # 18429
Default  Posted: 10:52 AM, May 7th (Tuesday)

Cal, whatever "emotions" come out of her when she is drunk, are not true emotions at all. A person is not capable of expressing true remorse when they are drunk... they are barely capable of identifying the bathroom before they pee in the plant in the corner of the room. Whatever "emotions" she was expressing while drunk are not real. And drinking to solve either of your problems will only lead to both of you being alcoholics.... I think your children deserve better than that, and I think you deserve better than that.


DDay - Dec '07
Me - BS
Him - FWS
Us - Committed
May 18, 2010 - I forgave him fully!
"Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction." Isaiah 48:10

Posts: 3859 | Registered: Feb 2008
survivor_kh
Member
Member # 33738
Default  Posted: 3:26 PM, May 8th (Wednesday)

Cal, are you in IC as well? Infidelity can put you into a very severe depression. It's overwhelming, I'm always grateful that I was already in therapy before my Dday.

Yes, she has work to do on herself. Let her do that, and you make sure Calkid is getting what he needs ok?

Lots of hugs


Surviving is important, thriving is elegant- Maya Angelou

you is kind, you is smart, you is important


Posts: 297 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Indiana
nofool4u
Member
Member # 38509
Default  Posted: 5:00 PM, May 8th (Wednesday)

Unless the convention was work related, I'd say those are done for her now.

I don't think the images will ever leave. I think all you can hope for is that they diminish a little and you don't think about them on a daily basis.

So what has your wife said about all of this? Does she seem remorseful? Cry at all? I think she doesn't need to be going away like this anymore unless for work, and if so, you go with her.


Me - fBS

Posts: 210 | Registered: Feb 2013
wonderpets
Member
Member # 35901
Default  Posted: 6:26 AM, May 9th (Thursday)

This scenario is very odd. Many waywards are not truthful, we see it time and time again here, even when the BS insists that their situation is different. The time frame of the relationship does not seem right, and "he never finished though!" is a very common way to minimize things when sex can't be denied.

Good luck, hope the best.


Posts: 198 | Registered: Jun 2012
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 7:38 AM, May 9th (Thursday)

I have my pastor that I talk to. He helps me. I'm no longer in the pit of despair. Yesterday, the rent check for our house back east did not clear and she freaked out. See, Mr. D pays our renter to be his personal assistant with the rent money. That's her paycheck to her from him. Well, my wife freaks. She calls me at work saying, "See why I didn't want you to call him? I told you not to call him. This is just the beginning!" She was hiterical. I had to come home from work and calm her down. Turns out, it was simply and mistake by the renter when paying the rent electronically and had nothing to do with Mr. D. See, Mr.D is F*cking our renter too who is also married. I explained to my wife that if he stopped paying her rent, then he would stop paying her salary and the jig would be up. The renter would be pissed if she found out Mr.D and my wife fooled around plus, I told him that if he said anything to anyone to make my wife look bad, I'd be on the first plane back east, find him, and beat him within an inch of his life. He told me he understood and didn't want that plus he said, "Anything I say to slander your wife, I also do to myself and I don't want that either." But, my wife lives with this fear because she doens't want her friends and family back east to know about this. Yes, she is remoursful. She tells me I should kick her out, that she doesn't deserve me, cries a lot, thanks me from saving her from this messed up lifestyle, says she never wants to go through anything like this ever again. I ask her why and she says, because the guilt is almost unbearable, covering her tracks was exhausting, the way whe feels about herself is aweful, that she's lost my faith and trust is unbearable, and most of all, she never wants to inflict the kind of hurt that she did to me ever again. She no longer works for this multi-level marketing company. We've also set or reestablished bounderies. No going to clubs or bars without the other person - EVER, no drinking alchahol in a plublic place without the other person, no texting the opposite sex unless they are gay, no spending time alone with the opposite sex - ever, no talking about our relationship with the opposite sex, etc. The did not have sex and she has been truely upfront with everything they did with too much detail (my fault there but I asked for it and some things, I wish I didn't know), he did finish but in her mouth (Yuck!) Things are looking much better. She's getting readyd to go down south to watch our grandson while my duagher-in-law has open heart surgery for two weeks which actually might be a good thing to give us both some time to let things just simmer down since they have been so intense at home. I'll miss her but, I think it might be good. I feel very positive right now that we are moving forward and healing although its still hard and not easy.

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 3:47 PM, May 9th (Thursday)

This is what she says, She says that she was not looking for sex from Mr. D, just attention and fun. She says she told him, no pussy, it's Calkid's. You can have everything else, but not that, no sex and no touching the pussy. I ask her why, she replies because I wasn't looking for sex from him, he had a little dick, she's very proud that my dick is the only one to ever be in there, and she's had 5 of my babies with that pussy. Her and I have always loved the fact that dick has never known another pussy and her pussy has never known another dick. And then, she asks me why when they had the opportunity to have sex, do I think he didn't push the issue? The night that she blew him, she was sharing a hotel room with Mr. D and two other woman (one of which Mr. D is fucking, my wife couldn't sleep, went downstairs to the lobby, was smoking a cig and asked herself, "What would I gain by letting him fuck me? He's got a little dick, if Calkid found out, he'd ever R with me, and I've got a much bigger and nicer dick waiting for me at home." Then the next morning, everyone was getting ready except my wife was lying in the bed, the other two girls went downstairs and left Mr. D alone with my wife. She said he was looking down at her in the bed, staring her right in the eyes, when said she could tell he was thinking about fucking her. She asked him, "What?" He shook his head and said, "I gotta get outta here." She said she had her rebuke already planned but he didn't try for sex, just left. Then she asks me why I think he didn't try.

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
doesitgetbetter
Member
Member # 18429
Default  Posted: 4:53 PM, May 9th (Thursday)

She's feeding you a line, and you're buying it hook line and sinker. No one involved in an affair ever thinks, during the affair, about the consequences and how they shouldn't do this or that sex act because their spouse won't ever R with them if they do. That's the biggest crock I've ever heard! Instead, what they think is "I've gone this far, might as well go all the way".

I can't tell you how many WW's have told their BH that the sex wasn't as good, the junk wasn't as big, the OM never orgasmed, etc. etc. etc, and how everytime it's been a lie.

It all goes back to lie detector, and STD tests.


DDay - Dec '07
Me - BS
Him - FWS
Us - Committed
May 18, 2010 - I forgave him fully!
"Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction." Isaiah 48:10

Posts: 3859 | Registered: Feb 2008
cliffside
Member
Member # 38803
Default  Posted: 5:45 PM, May 9th (Thursday)

The night that she blew him, she was sharing a hotel room with Mr. D and two other woman (one of which Mr. D is fucking, my wife couldn't sleep, went downstairs to the lobby, was smoking a cig and asked herself, "What would I gain by letting him fuck me? He's got a little dick, if Calkid found out, he'd ever R with me, and I've got a much bigger and nicer dick waiting for me at home." Then the next morning, everyone was getting ready except my wife was lying in the bed, the other two girls went downstairs and left Mr. D alone with my wife. She said he was looking down at her in the bed, staring her right in the eyes, when said she could tell he was thinking about fucking her.

Wait, what? She shared a hotel room with him and two other women? And one he was also sleeping with? I would want EVERY detail about this. I don't know a lot of grown men and women who would share a room in this manner.


Me: BS 39
Him: WH 41
2 Kids
D-Day: 2/3/13
Broke NC 3/14
Very skeptically in R for now...

Posts: 261 | Registered: Mar 2013
karmahappens
Member
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 5:48 PM, May 9th (Thursday)

oh calkid

He's got a little dick, if Calkid found out, he'd ever R with me, and I've got a much bigger and nicer dick waiting for me at home

That is fucked up....I am sorry for the language, but she is full of shit!
I am so sorry for your pain, this is unbearable to read,


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaďs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3755 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
traildad
Member
Member # 35258
Default  Posted: 10:14 PM, May 9th (Thursday)

I am so sorry you are going through this. Be gentle with yourself. You remind me so much of myself when I was in your situation. Looking for the positive, thinking it wasn't really so bad, bargaining with myself. It's a phase you are going to experience, and then one day it is going to hit you how really messed up this situation is, how the only path to R is going to be through a complete shift in her attitude - remorse, honest, sincere, sober remorse. Mine never did get there, but I am hoping yours does. Right now your WW is sorry, but NOT remorseful. Hang in there man.


Me BH - 33
3 beautiful young children
DDay 12/13/11
Divorced.

Posts: 650 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Michigan
5yrsout
Member
Member # 32109
Default  Posted: 5:30 AM, May 10th (Friday)

((((Huge hugs!!)))

Your WW almost (almost, barely) had me thinking for 10 seconds that she was remorseful and from where you started this thread to where you were seemed on the right path.

HOWEVER.

That was before this last crock of shit that came tumbling out of her mouth.

And, it is evil and meant to inflict pain to top it off.

"Why do you think he didn't try to fuck me, Cal??" Hmmm... let's sit here and ponder that, shall we? So odd, she says.

Cal, I am so very sorry, but please remember the awful details and embellishments she added to make her first cycle of this sordid tale "believable." Remember the ear nibbling, etc. The balcony scene. The dialogue.

THIS IS PURE B.S.

You may not care now - because you are over-loaded and you WANT so much to believe her.

But, if you are anything like many of us here, as time goes by, your brain will start picking apart every little discrepancy, every little nuance.

Heck, yesterday, I realized that SEVEN YEARS ago, I had invited my WH to lunch (was in his area of work unexpectedly) and he shot me down but kept asking where I would be - BECAUSE HE WAS WITH HIS MCOW. This is only one of thousands of details that have bubbled to the surface after my subconscious continues to replay and process the BULLSH*T stories and match them up to facts.

I am sorry to go on and on...

But, this "story" and specifically how the heroine has "her refusal all ready to go" but because Mr. D is (implied) such an honorable man, didn't even need her response because he didn't even try...

And, one final note.

Why does it matter?

IT IS HORRIBLE, over the top, disrespectful, direct evidence that she STILL.DOES.NOT.GET.IT.

She cannot possibly start to move forward with her continued mindset of minimizing, gas lighting, and LYING.

(((HUGS!)) I, unfortunately, cannot offer advice on HOW to get the truth - only that I know when I am not seeing it. Polygraph? Ultimatum? Whatever the answer is, I know BS only have a limited window of time "power-wise" -- after too long, it is almost like a statute of limitations kicks in and it doesn't feel feasible to still be demanding answers.

HUGS. PLEASE INSIST ON THE TRUTH FOR YOURSELF.


Now 7 Yrs Out - my prince is a frog
DD 5/15/2006

Posts: 774 | Registered: May 2011
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 6:54 AM, May 10th (Friday)

Good Morning calkid,

I do not intend this to be more piling on, just relating what I see from my personal perspective. Your actual mileage may vary.

I do not remember all of the details of my first two months, but FWW and I got to a point where there was an agreed to narrative. She implied she had sex with OM, in my mind maybe a dozen times over 3 years and 2 OM, mostly oral.

At about 6 months I was really hitting a point of rage, not just angry, but rage. Little pieces just did not make sense. Under pressure from me and our MC, she provided me with 4 written pages of additional details. Not a full timeline, but it greatly expanded the scope and depth of her A. Overnight meetings in out of town hotels, daytime meetings in hotels, phone sex, stexting, photos, earlier OM with 2x ONS, sex about 2x a month over 2-3 years with OM.

The purpose of my post though is not to warn you to expect more (others have done that adequately). My point is that no matter how many OM, how many times she fucked or blew them, or sent photos and masturbated on the phone with them, it all came form the same place, the same brokenness. She craved the attention, the external validation, the sense of power having 3 OM attracted to her. She had re-written the M blaming me. She was not happy and concluded that I was the reason that she was not happy.

The reality is my FWW had a bunch of unresolved issues from her childhood, from some sexual abuse, from some personality traits that she needed to work through and figure out. No matter if it was the first OM she blew in a bathroom after work, or the last one she had a 2+ year A with, it was all driven by the same thing.

...thanks me from saving her from this messed up lifestyle, says she never wants to go through anything like this ever again.

If she never wants to go through something like this again, she needs to figure out why she did in the first place. I do not mean the surface reasons of you not paying attention, but the deeper whys. Why when you were not paying attention did she look to attention from OM? Why did she thing sharing a hotel room with OM and women was OK?

We've also set or reestablished boundaries. No going to clubs or bars without the other person - EVER, no drinking alchahol in a plublic place without the other person, no texting the opposite sex unless they are gay, no spending time alone with the opposite sex - ever, no talking about our relationship with the opposite sex, etc.

New boundaries are good, and important, but why is it that she will not break the new boundaries as she did the old ones the next time she feels lonely or unattractive? It is nice that she does not want to hurt you again, but why was it OK to hurt you this time? Why did she think it would be OK to blow OM so long as she did not fuck him?

Finally,

"What would I gain by letting him fuck me? He's got a little dick, ...

If I had a dollar for every time since dday that I have been told by FWW how big my dick is I could be retired on my boat. I do not think I am small, but I am not exceptional. This is a quick and easy one for FWW to "make it OK", but when you think about it, how happy should I be with the equivalent of: Oh Honey, your dick is so much bigger and nicer than the other dicks I have had since we were married."

During her two weeks away she should make appointments for IC when she gets back to figure out her whys. While she is gone, is there a way for you to verify that Mr. D is where he should be and not where she is?

--Ats


LTA BS 53
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4074 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 8:23 AM, May 10th (Friday)

I get what you all are saying, I do. But you are not emotionally attached to her as I am. You don't know her as I do. You have to understand that she was the first girl I had sex with and I was the first boy she did. And, before now, we had not had sex with any other person. This is a family woman that has created 5 babies with me using that pussy. Just like last night, I got her shit faced drunk, almost to the point do passing out, telling me stuff she would never tell me sober. I asked her why , she said, "because that creates life" and pointed to her pussy. Then, she said, "and its yours." To which I corrected her, no can't do all of that stuff because this entire body is mine and if anyone ever kisses or touches it again, I'll drop your ass in a second.

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
cliffside
Member
Member # 38803
Default  Posted: 8:57 AM, May 10th (Friday)

Calkid, I know you probably feel like you're getting ganged up on, but please understand the advice people are giving comes from a good place and also from the unfortunate experiences we've had. No one wants to join this club. It's an experience others really can not understand.

Just like last night, I got her shit faced drunk, almost to the point do passing out, telling me stuff she would never tell me sober.

This is a problem. Your wife needs to be totally honest with you and she needs to be sober when she is. You should write down everything she's told you so far then keep asking the same questions. See if the answers change at all. So far they have, but keep asking to see if things keep changing. Maybe ask her to write it all out for you as well? Write out the timeline, the details, etc.
I made my WH sit down with me and go through everything. I told him if he left out anything that I would find out later and it would put us right back at D-Day. He told me all of the embarressing details and we're in R. If you want to R with her, then sit her down and say "Look, I need to know the honest to God truth. Nothing is going to hurt me or surprise me at this point, but we can't move forward until I know everything and the truth." And insist she goes to IC. She needs to figure out why she did this. The hotel room alone says she has boundary issues.

Lastly, ask her to read "Not Just Friends". My IC told me her test for couples is to ask them to read a book. If the Wayward spouse refuses or doesn't follow through, she knows right then that they aren't committed to R.

Sorry you have to go through this. It's hell and none of us here deserved it.


Me: BS 39
Him: WH 41
2 Kids
D-Day: 2/3/13
Broke NC 3/14
Very skeptically in R for now...

Posts: 261 | Registered: Mar 2013
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 9:38 AM, May 10th (Friday)

Cali - We understand where you are coming from, better than you know. That is why most of us are telling you that you are not getting the whole truth. We are not attacking you, or your wife, we are simply saying based on our experiences there is a 99.9% chance there is more to this.

I would strongly suggest you stick with having her do a poly.

I also am concerned because I am seeing a pattern of self medication with alcohol. Yes this is a very difficult time, however drinking to the point of being "drunk" is not helpful to either of you. If she is not sleeping then she needs to get medication, not drunk. I will only make her feel worse physically and mentally.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 7785 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
JanaGreen
Member
Member # 29341
Default  Posted: 9:44 AM, May 10th (Friday)

Is Mr. D married? I don't recall that question being answered.


We're both in our 30s. One awesome 4-year-old daughter.

Posts: 6508 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Somewhere in the South
idiot85
Member
Member # 38934
Default  Posted: 9:48 AM, May 10th (Friday)

Drinking won't help- in my opinion you should be stopping her drinking not encouraging it. I know this because my wife's been away with the fucking fairies for years- more recently she's been in the real world and it means when I have a shit week (like this week) she can physically do her best to help without a substance messing with her head.

I agree with Tushnurse and many others- I'm not attacking you or your wife when I say she's lying- she's most likely lying because she thinks she's protecting you or thinks you'll leave her.

I say this because I can't physically imagine a scenario where someone would be like yes do this/do that but this is my husband's- do you know what I mean?? Like- how could she have been thinking of you when someone's doing that to her?

I'm 99% certain my wife wasn't thinking about me when she was having it away- the 1% comes from the first 5 seconds where she might have done- before she made the choice. When the choice is made I think thoughts of spouses goes out the window mate.


BH-29 (me)
WW-28

Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur.


Posts: 575 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Old Blighty
solus sto
Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 10:30 AM, May 10th (Friday)

I told him that if he said anything to anyone to make my wife look bad, I'd be on the first plane back east, find him, and beat him within an inch of his life.
How about this: let your wife experience the consequences of her infidelity. Let her experience them WITHOUT you becoming the Knight in Shining Armor.

You did not cheat. If the rent check bounces because "Mr. D." is vengeful---well, that's a pretty natural consequence of your wife's choices.

She is an adult. She made very adult choices, knowing very well that the consequences for them, if discovered, would be dire.

Why are you acting as though she is not responsible for her actions?

Mr. D is no more in need of a "beating within an inch of his life" than anyone else in this scenario.

Take the focus off him. In fact, take the focus off ALL of this.

Focus on YOURSELF. Read, in the Healing Library, #11 in the FAQs for BSs. It addresses the 180. This technique of detachment allows the BS to gain perspective. You think you have things under control now, and will protest you don't need this. You have a LOT of people telling you the same thing, and you're refusing to listen. I get that---really, I do. (I was also abysmal at the 180, but practice makes perfect and, by the time I learned it, I REALLY REALLY REALLY needed it, and was glad that others had belabored its importance.)

Here's the deal: you can't control anything or anyone but yourself.

Your wife? She's not in it yet. Will she be, soon? She very well may be. But right now, she's not. Your new boundaries, rules, etc? They are meaningless. Your discussions of her affairs? Full of shit.

You're not going to change her---not what she does, not what she feels, not what she thinks. You just can't---EVER.

This is a very difficult concept for many to grasp, and it's clear you're struggling with it.

What you CAN change is yourself. No, I'm not suggesting that any flaw in you contributed to your wife's decision to cheat. What I am suggesting is that, in the aftermath of that disgusting decision, the only thing you can control is YOUR response.

Trying to elicit the responses you want from your wife is futile. Take it from the woman who, when she was not a puddle of tears and snot on the bathroom floor, was hectoring her long-cheating husband in an attempt to first elicit the truth (never came, never will), then create a marriage from the rubble. (You do know that your marriage is dead, right? That if you choose to remain married, you will have to start from the beginning, only without the champagne and hors d'oeuvres. Instead, you'll be starting with a pile of shit---which is why you need 100% commitment from your wife.)

So. Focus on yourself. Ease back from the affair----it wasn't YOUR affair, after all---and let your wife figure that out. (It would be great if she did so in IC, but again, if she's not 100% in, that's a waste of time and money and, with the wrong counselor, can be very damaging to the marriage; a lying WS and a coddling IC can do a heck of a lot of harm.)

Let her handle the consequences of her affair, including getting a glimpse of life without you there to pooper-scoop for her.

Focus on the 180. Get YOURSELF strong. Learn what you can and cannot control (because you're waaaaaay off the mark now). Learn what does and does not help you. Most of all, learn that you will survive this, no matter what.

You think, right now, that standing up for your woman with this "small-dicked Mr. D" is somehow helpful to her. Really, it's enabling behavior. It sends her the message that no matter how she messes up, you will fix it.

And you can't. Even if you want to.

This is her infidelity. It is her mess to clean up.

When she is committed to doing so, then yes---there are some aspects for which your participation will be essential.

But for now? Let her feel her feelings without insulating them. Let her learn to cope with the consequences herself.

Failing to do so not only jeopardizes a healthy reconciliation, but is harmful TO HER. It infantilizes her. It tells her you don't have faith in her. It teaches her she can't trust herself to do things on her own.

And yeah, in light of her transgressions, this may SEEM true. But the fact is, until she learns how to comport herself appropriately, she will not be a suitable, safe partner for you.

So you do YOUR job: focus on yourself. Become a healthier person (why? because it's the right thing to do). Establish your OWN boundaries. Learn to identify what you can and cannot control, and detach from the latter; it's NOT YOUR CONCERN.

Let your wife feel her feelings. Let her endure the consequences of her actions. (No, I'm not saying punish her; I'm saying let her feel fear, if she's concerned about fallout. If the fallout materializes, allow her to experience that. You can't spare her, really, anyway--you can just make idle gestures, like threatening to beat "Mr. D" up. Which is ... not helpful, at best. Let her own her actions, feel their consequences, and make her own decisions about when and how to return to the marriage. The fact is, she may not choose to do so at the time or in a way that is acceptable to you; it's important for YOU to see this, and to make an informed decision about whether you choose to remain in the marriage that has yet to be defined. The one you had is over. The one to be built may not work for you. The only way you will know this is if you step back and let her become the woman she is to be. The woman you married is gone. You owe it to BOTH of you to observe the woman taking her place---because there's nothing worse than trying to fit that puzzle piece in next to you, only to find out, years hence, that it never did fit, and everything YOU'VE worked so hard for has been just gone along with----or resented---for years, something that sadly is often the outcome, when D-days 2 and subsequent roll around.)

I am VERY sorry for you pain. Please do not mistake my bluntness for a lack of care; I really do. I am just sharing what I learned over a very long marriage with a man who is now a stranger. If I could do it over, I'd 180 from the first hint of infidelity, and watch very carefully to see if my husband and I even HAD a future, before working hard to preserve it.

ETA: I agree, discontinue the drinking games. In vino veritas is a fallacy; what you "learn" from her about her "remorse" when drunk is false. Alcohol merely brings out the maudlin, not the truth.

And Jana brings up a good question: Is "Mr. D." married? If so, consider letting his wife know of his extracurriculars. She should know what is going on so she can make informed decisions about her life--including the decision to be tested for STD.

[This message edited by solus sto at 10:46 AM, May 10th (Friday)]


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 52, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8294 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
la433
Member
Member # 38835
Default  Posted: 10:41 AM, May 10th (Friday)

We've also set or reestablished bounderies. No going to clubs or bars without the other person - EVER, no drinking alc(o)hol in a plublic place without the other person, no texting the opposite sex unless they are gay, no spending time alone with the opposite sex - ever, no talking about our relationship with the opposite sex, etc.

You should clarify that those are HER boundaries, not yours. You have not done anything to warrant having those types of boundaries placed upon you. Put the burden of earning trust on HER, not you. If you want to go to a bar with friends female or male, that should be of no concern to her, except that you tell her up front. What? You might cheat? You say "it's so so" and "if you want to call, call" and "i'll be home at x time" and "we're just friends". The reality is she has now her own self-originating trust issues and she will object big time.

Trust me I've made this mistake and know. You see my wife when we met had been cheated on by her 1st husband and she placed all kinds of restrictions on me that weren't right. She NEVER trusted me--EVER. I thought I was being a good man by going alone. All I was doing was enabling her to never rebuild her trust of anyone. Don't enable her. Trust is everything, but if a person can't trust you, you can't make them. Enabling her by keeping yourself also under lock and key doesn't help AT ALL.

Also, she is only ok with those boundaries because now she knows you know that she fucked other people, and she's afraid that you might think about doing the same "in a moment of weakness". Not that you ever would, but that's her thinking.

Tell her that those boundaries apply to her and HER alone. The rest about bars and alcohol and talking to the opposite sex.... NO NO, All of that applies to her only at this point. You are not a criminal. You did nothing to deserve the dragnet. You are still trustworthy. You have not violated her in any way. It was her. You have shown 20+ years of trustworthiness. Not her.

You will know from this test alone where you truly stand. If she says that it's not fair, then you know that she's lying about being remorseful, she's lied about everything so far, and she's probably still having an affair, both emotional and probably physical.

Now I know what you're going to say--that you want to show her respect and bla bla bla. You're like me. You're a good man. You don't want to be a bad husband. You'd never cheat on her. Yada yada yada. Whatever. She's being nothing more than a manipulative BITCH. I know because friend my wife used that against me also. Don't bite.

And let's get one thing absolutely straight. She absolutely, most postively DID have sex with him. Doesn't anyone else see this contradiction? She said her VaJJ was for you only , but he was allowed to rub it? I mean I know I'm a pretty young compared to many others on here, but I'm old enough to know that's not exactly how passion works. So he rubbed it for how long? You see how stupid that is?

Also, the fact that she has blamed you in any way shape or form at all at any point in time is evidence that she is not the least bit remorseful. AT. ALL.

I'd say FUCK THE BITCH, divorce her and move on. But ok, so you don't want to divorce. Fine. You need to at the very least file for legal separation at this point, with YOU having custody of any minor kids out of the 5 you have. If she has an issue with it, ask her if she'd rather separation or divorce?

Also, it is a time of reflection, which is what you so badly need. AWAY. FROM. HER. Trust me, after a few weeks away from seeing her face, you will definitely see her differently. TRUST ME. The ugliness within that is coming out of her will have changed how she physically looks and when you see her for the first time in a couple of weeks/months, your jaw will drop and you will be amazed at what she's turned into. That is the real eye opener. At least it has been for me. Every time I see her and how "ugly" she looks, it's make me sick to think I was believing her crap for so long. And the only thing that would start to make my wife beautiful again is self-originating confession of all her deeds and remorse for what she's done. And, asking for forgiveness. Even then, it would take a long time to see her as beautiful as I once did.

Everyone keeps saying you need a lie detector for the whole truth. I for one do not think you NEED it to know that she's lied to you about it all. My friend, you already KNOW what happened. Understand that you are taking your information from a known and convicted liar. You are just in denial about it. She is TTing you. And the reality is you will never get ALL of the truth from her. You first have to know the facts to ask the questions.

With that being said, let's just put it in the most clear/vulgar terms possible so you can get it over and move on...

She swallowed
He ate her out
He fucked her doggy style
She fucked on top
He fucked her sideways
He fucked her missionary style
He came inside her
He stuck it in her butt
He fucked her in the shower
She fucked him silly
They probably video taped it too. YUK!

Again, sorry to be so vulgar. I'm not usually this vulgar, but my wife's adultery has produced some rather undesirable traits in me that I'm not proud of--my increasing vulgarity being one. That being said, you need to realize that this is truly what happened. Again, I'm not trying to be mean or make it hurt worse. But you need to own up to the fact that it happened before you seriously get hurt any more than you already have. You want truth. There it is.

Frankly, nothing she has told you has been the truth. I've read this whole thread, and there is nothing in it whatsoever to make me believe she is being honest with you. That's why I say that a lie detector is pointless. A test is not going to somehow make her remorseful or tell you everything. It might catch them in another lie, but its not going to magically produce honesty out of her. And don't forget, you can easily fool lie detector tests. However, the lie detector tests should be a periodic part of the R as a part of HER accountability, to keep her story straight (which she won't be able to).

Your gut instinct (as well as this site) are the best thing you've got. If it doesn't add up, it doesn't add up. My friend, it doesn't add up. As others have mentioned, she is practicing TT, which my wife is practicing with me. At least I have come to the realization that my wife is a lying bitch and has no intention of ever telling me the truth. Do I still love her? Yes. I think we all still love our xWSes, but it's not ever the same. Will I ever get fooled again? No. Would I ever get back together with her? Highly doubtful. Don't rule it out friend, but do not make it a priority right now.

And to be honest, you need to get to the point all of us are at, where we just don't give a flying fuck anymore at what they say. Actions are everything. And to some degree, at judgement day, she'll have to answer for what's she's done, and that's enough for me. I've come to accept that she's incapable of telling me the truth. So, I don't ask for it. It's up to *them* to prove us different.

And as for the images in your head, there is something that I do that works. I think about my way forward. You can't do that if you're stuck in the past. And that is exactly where you're at. She will never be the person she was before the A. And all the sick little details about how many times, where, how, protected, unprotected, etc, only further demoralize your mind and fill your mind with pictures you don't need to have, and frankly, make it harder to recover. See examples above. Think of what YOU are going to do for YOURSELF.

Examples: Is there a side hobby you've always wanted to do? Want to switch jobs? Ever wanted to start up a new business? Dream my friend. Dream. The reality is you have complete control over your mind, not her. She is not a witch able to control your thoughts and dreams. You have that. And by focusing on this stuff, you are allowing her to destroy you along with her. And as long as you are physically around her, you will succomb.

But again, learn to dream my friend about the things you've always wanted to do, and go do them. Put it into action. What you may not realize is that she may be giving you a gift. Take it and go. Accept the reality that R may or may not be a possibility. It is way too early to tell. But if science has shown us anything is that MOST people, like 999/1000 are NOT capable of true, lasting change. We all want to believe that our xWSes are that 1/1000, but friend that is just not backed by logic.

Again, sorry for being vulgar and no intentions of making you hurt anymore, and sorry if I did.

Good luck. *WE* are here for you.

[This message edited by la433 at 10:49 AM, May 10th (Friday)]


"Arise and be all that you dreamed." ~Flyleaf

Posts: 136 | Registered: Mar 2013
la433
Member
Member # 38835
Default  Posted: 11:41 AM, May 10th (Friday)

Just found this quote from an article on another post on this forum:

"Listen to me chumps -- hope is not your friend. You need to bludgeon hope with a fencepost and begin to operate with total lucidity."

Sorry, dude, it's true.


"Arise and be all that you dreamed." ~Flyleaf

Posts: 136 | Registered: Mar 2013
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 12:08 PM, May 10th (Friday)

Mr.D is married but going through a nasty divorce. I'm not sure what to do. Not sure about the lie detector test, not sure about the person she is now. What I am sure of is that I am a fighter and don't quit even when the going gets tough. I am sure I love her and I'm sure I don't want to break up the family. I'm sure she's sorry for hurting me. She says she's remoursful for everything and that shed never do it again and that she's 100% in this with me and wants to rebuild our marriage.

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
doesitgetbetter
Member
Member # 18429
Default  Posted: 12:29 PM, May 10th (Friday)

and that shed never do it again

Which is a direct contradiction to what she told you just a few days ago when she said she would cheat again if you didn't treat her as she wanted. You can't be sure of anything she says, you can only trust her actions over a long period of time, and a week and a half is nowhere near a long period of time.

(((calkid)))


DDay - Dec '07
Me - BS
Him - FWS
Us - Committed
May 18, 2010 - I forgave him fully!
"Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction." Isaiah 48:10

Posts: 3859 | Registered: Feb 2008
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 12:32 PM, May 10th (Friday)

I don't want to break up the family

Please try to re-frame this thought in your mind.

The logic that you're using right now implies that your WW can do pretty much anything she wants and you will remain so as to not break up the family.

It's not as if you went to bed last night, woke up this morning, looked around and said "huh. I'm outta here" for no reason other than it's Friday.

Your WW has already broken the family. Whatever results from that will rest on her shoulders, not yours.

[This message edited by gonnabe2016 at 12:33 PM, May 10th (Friday)]


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7672 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
mike7
Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 12:39 PM, May 10th (Friday)

i'm not as negative about this as other's Calkid. She might be telling the truth. Getting her drunk and asking her doesn't make it true though. People can lie when they're drunk.

But you have to remember, the title of the this thread is "Wife made out with a guy." People here didn't think it smelled right. And you eventually found out that a heck of a lot more happened than your wife making out with a guy. And she didn't volunteer this. She lied about it. You had to drag it out of her. And remember when she was protecting "him?" She promised "him" she wouldn't tell?

She's a liar. Maybe not anymore.

But you gotta ask yourself, do you want to know the whole truth? If so, get a polygraph. If she's telling the truth, she should be fine with it. You can tell her, you just to verify so you can move forward without lingering doubts. If she says, "what, you don't trust me?" You can certainly reply that lately she's been lying and hiding a lot of stuff.

I applaud you for being a fighter and wanting to fight for your family and marriage. I'm a fighter too.

The question is: do you really want to know the truth? Either she'll be exonerated, you'll know she's finally telling the truth. Or you'll find out that she's still lying and her "pussy" as you call it, wasn't just for you.

But only if you want the truth. Good luck


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 507 | Registered: Mar 2013
la433
Member
Member # 38835
Default  Posted: 12:41 PM, May 10th (Friday)

Don't want to be too harsh, but I call bullshit.

First you say

...not sure about the person she is now.

Then you completely contradict yourself by saying

I'm sure she's sorry for hurting me. She says she's remoursful for everything and that shed never do it again and that she's 100% in this with me and wants to rebuild our marriage.

You say you're unsure about the person she is, but then you say you're sure she wants X, Y & Z.

I'm sorry but you're not sure about her. It's obvious. Te person you used to know no longer exists. Once she convinced herself that cheating is ok, and then does it, there was no turning back to who she used to be. She is gone forever. She spiritually died. You should be morning a loss right now. Please take time to grieve, relive the happy times and move on.

It's obvious to all of us. Please listen to all the messages on this board. Please please please.

Just trying to be honest with you. You're hurt. You're confused. You're not being logical.

As WE ALL recommend, you need to physically separate for a while to truly understand what has happened. You're trying to "fix" something you can't "fix".

All your aspirations about not breaking up the family are great, but she's already broke up the family my friend. It hurts. I know. It sucks. At this point it is up to her to mend the family, not you. And that is going to take TIME.

I'm so sad for you because I totally understand your pain, and how fresh it is.

Please get some time for you. As much as you need. HINT: You'll need a lot.


"Arise and be all that you dreamed." ~Flyleaf

Posts: 136 | Registered: Mar 2013
solus sto
Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, May 10th (Friday)

Do her actions match her words? Take some deep breaths, pull back enough to really see what is real (and not what you wish), and observe. For a long time.

Don't fall back on self-deception because it's easier. Don't fall back on, "I'm not a quitter" because it's easier.

Make decisions firmly based in the reality of your situation. This, I realize, may take considerable time to ascertain. You don't need to make any decisions today, tomorrow, or even the next day. You have time to really assess the situation.

Just be sure to do so honestly.


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 52, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8294 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 1:00 PM, May 10th (Friday)

Honestly, not intending to pile on here. This is just more from my perspective.

...she's 100% in this with me and wants to rebuild our marriage.

Before real work can occur in marriage rebuilding, she needs to address her issues that resulted in dropped, or poor boundaries, why she found excitement and attention in OM rather than dragging you to MC or trying to "nice" you back into the M.

This is issues like her comment about needing you to fill her heart. That was something my FWW would have said before her IC.

Someone suggested the two of you read and discuss Not Just Friends by Glass. That was good advice, FWW and I did that. We also read Sexual Detours by Hines, and 5 Love Languages (later in R) by Chapman.

What she says is not so important over the next few months as what she does.


LTA BS 53
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4074 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 1:13 PM, May 10th (Friday)

We are separating for two weeks. She's going to the south to watch our grandson. Maybe this is what is needed. Maybe, it will bring some clarity. You are all right. I am very confused.

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 1:34 PM, May 10th (Friday)

I feel like a long distance runner who has been running for a long, long time who's chest is heaving and burning, who's muscles are burning and this runner is slowing down and getting slower with every stride. The race is life and is losing the will to push on. I'm so ashamed I'm so weak guys, you all are stronger and better than me.

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 1:37 PM, May 10th (Friday)

(((Calkid)))

You are stronger than you know.


BS(me)41
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,9
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Happily Reconciled.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7104 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 1:50 PM, May 10th (Friday)

Until you related the account given by your wife of cavorting in a hotel room with the OM and other ladies, some of whom were having sex with him, I kinda believed her tale of oral only. Now I think she joined in with full service and isn't going to tell you because its a deal breaker. She believes you won't successfully reconcile if she tells you the truth, so you get this hogwash of her saving her genitals for you, and you only.

The more she mentions this claim that you have exclusive rights to her vagina the more disbelief I feel.
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."


Posts: 1680 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 2:15 PM, May 10th (Friday)

I'm so ashamed I'm so weak guys, you all are stronger and better than me.

Really, you are doing well. Just because we give you good advice, does not mean we knew of the advice or implemented it in the early days and weeks after our own ddays.

Finding SI early is a good thing, but it really can be like trying to drink from a fire hose.

I hope the 2 weeks give you a break to focus on you and your kids. Maybe reach out to friends you have not had a beer with in a while.


LTA BS 53
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4074 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
BaldwinBeauty59
Member
Member # 35507
Default  Posted: 2:54 PM, May 10th (Friday)

News Flash: Liars still lie even when drunk. Drinking doesn't make you an honest person, it just makes you drunk. I grilled my FWH while he was shitfaced drunk several times trying to get answers. He continued to lie even while he was drunk. He told me over and over the same things he told me while sober. My gut didn't believe him even though my heart wanted to. I kept snooping and found out everything he told me while he was sober and drunk were all lies.

Your WW is one hell of a good liar. As much as you don't want to believe it, she probably fucked the guy and she probably fucked him many, many times. She is gaslighting you because she is afraid that it will be a deal breaker for you. She is protecting herself. I feel so badly for you as it is quite clear that you are in a BS fog. You say you know her so you think she would never let another man in her "P". Well did you know her well enough to know she would give another man BJ's or have an A? No, I don't think you know her quite as well as you think you do. IMHO, you desparately want to believe that she kept herself pure in the "P" just for you because you are unable to handle the pain that she really didn't. Right now your mind and heart can't handle the trauma from the truth so you are in the denial stage. Unfortunately, when the shock wears off and you start coming out of the BS fog, you will start to see all the holes in her story that the rest of us see. After all, we have lived through it so we recognize bullshit when we hear it. Everything she has fed you so far is all bullshit. I truly am sorry that you are in this situation and even more sorry for the additional pain coming your way. Please shore yourself up mentally and emotionally so you will be prepared. It devastated me when I found out that my FWH had sex with his whore instead of just flirting and texting like he swore on his mother's life. It is indeed extremely traumatizing and painful. Most WS's will lie their asses off to minimize the A hoping to keep their BS's from divorcing them.


Me - BW (53)
Him - WH (56)
OW - skanky whore coworker
Married 33 years
DDay1 8/10/11
DDay2 8/15/11
DDay3 8/28/11
2 grown children
Status - in R

Posts: 978 | Registered: May 2012
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 3:38 PM, May 10th (Friday)

Ok, no more guys. For me to pick myself up and move on, I need to draw a line in the sand. I can make a couple of choices. I can, choose to believe her, that she didn't want sex from him and she saved her pussy as off limits, or I can chose to believe the worst which is, she let him fuck her and she's trying to keep from hurting me more and calling it quits. If he did, I'm not sure it matters. What does matter is, she's home with me, she's sorry, she loves me, and I love her. Can I ever fully trust her again as before? No. I never should have trusted as much as I did in the first place. Will I always be checking up on her emails, phone records, etc.? Yes. Thats where I'm at in this moment in time. If there's more, I can't handle it so even though she's given me no reason to, for my own mental sanity, I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt. That might change in a week or two, but that's where I'm at right now. :


Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
JanaGreen
Member
Member # 29341
Default  Posted: 3:40 PM, May 10th (Friday)

I'm so ashamed I'm so weak guys, you all are stronger and better than me.

Oh calkid. I wish you could see some of the posts I made in spring/summer 2012. You're not weak. You're going through hell right now.


We're both in our 30s. One awesome 4-year-old daughter.

Posts: 6508 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Somewhere in the South
libertyrocks
Member
Member # 38924
Default  Posted: 3:47 PM, May 10th (Friday)

Bingo, OK now!!!!

She believes you won't successfully reconcile if she tells you the truth,

That's what my H did. He was waiting for me to R and I waiting for him to disclose. He said once he knew I wouldn't leave him, that's when he disclosed EVERYTHING.

Dang it, Calkid, I KNEW from your first post she would TT. I got a 6 month TT package. Nice, huh.

Dude, this place is for the hulks and superwomen! You're defenitely a hulk!

[This message edited by libertyrocks at 3:47 PM, May 10th (Friday)]


Me-BW 36. STBXH-35,alcoholic, suspected NPD SA. 2 boys. M 6yrs T13.
DDay #1 Nov, 2012. 1 year+ false R & TT. 10 OW PA's 1LTA (all W lied to) 3 years.
S Nov, 2013 and for good Jan, 2014
Filed for D Feb, 2014.

Posts: 909 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: So Cal, baby. :)
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 3:57 PM, May 10th (Friday)

Whats TT?

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
5yrsout
Member
Member # 32109
Default  Posted: 4:13 PM, May 10th (Friday)

Hi Cal,

TT = Trickle Truth

Nearly 100% of wayward spouses (WS) will tell a minimized, sanitized version of what really went on when first confronted. (If they tell any truth at all - after their repeated denials.)

This is why we all *knew* from your first post that there was more to this. There always is...

I completely understand what you said in your last post. As a matter of fact, the best thing about your thought process is "what does it matter?" - as long as you are still prepared to try to reconcile (R) no matter what really happened, then the details really, really do not matter. It was a betrayal.

You probably feel the worst you will ever feel - I know I did and I've heard that short of losing a child, infidelity really is the worst pain in the world.

BIG HUGS to you.
You are STRONG and I admire your desire to try to move forward from this no matter what.

Stick around, we all really care and just want to help you and each other.


Now 7 Yrs Out - my prince is a frog
DD 5/15/2006

Posts: 774 | Registered: May 2011
doesitgetbetter
Member
Member # 18429
Default  Posted: 4:36 PM, May 10th (Friday)

You can choose to believe what you want to. I just want you to know, as someone who has successfully R'ed with their spouse for several years now, without knowing the truth of what happened, you'll never be able to have a strong foundation for any future M. How can you have a marriage without trust? How can you have trust without honesty? How can you have honesty without knowing the depth of the lies in order to start to rebuild? Just sayin....

For a burn victim to truly heal from their burns, their wounds must be stripped down to the raw skin and allowed to heal from the inside out to avoid infection. To build a sturdy building, you must tear out all remnants of a former building's foundation and start on fresh ground. To have a successful marriage after infidelity, you must know exactly what you're up against and the brutal honest truth must be known in order to move forward and build true trust again. Speaking from my own experience.

I'm all for R, I truly am. I believe there are many wrong ways to go about it though, rug sweeping and not getting all the truth are two ways that I feel are wrong ways. Details are not needed, but if something is important (such as if there was actual penetration on your wife), then that is a detail that must be disclosed.

Good luck cal, you're going to need it!


DDay - Dec '07
Me - BS
Him - FWS
Us - Committed
May 18, 2010 - I forgave him fully!
"Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction." Isaiah 48:10

Posts: 3859 | Registered: Feb 2008
redrock
Member
Member # 21538
Default  Posted: 5:07 PM, May 10th (Friday)

Calkid-

I can so relate to where you are. BTDT. She doesn't have to paint you into a corner... You have the can and the brush and are doing it for her.... Why? I don't know, we are all different in our motivations. Mine was fear. Fear of losing our life/family, being alone, being thrown away, losing to the OW... You name it I feared it. I paved over questions, doubts, lies, need for disclosure with my fear. Problem is-- it doesn't stay buried.

I can, choose to believe her, that she didn't want sex from him and she saved her pussy as off limits, or I can chose to believe the worst which is, she let him fuck her and she's trying to keep from hurting me more and calling it quits.

It is not just 2 choices. How about you let the possibility in that she is not telling everything? What that everything is has not yet been fully determined.

She is so busy blowing golden vagina smoke up your ass, she will not commit her story to a perfect memory.

You know what ups the bullshit meter for those of us that have been around for awhile? All of the consideration, comparison, and ownership rights she is/was directing your way during the concentrated period of time she was getting it on with the OM... All of that stuff went through her head and she blew him anyway?! Child please.

She did what she did for her. It was about her. And if she didn't let him hit the vjj that was her too. You were not in her head during the acts. You weren't. Or she would not have done it.

You may 'choose' to believe her, but I guarantee, just like the others here have already explained, you have the details burned on your brain and over time all of your common sense is going to nudge you again and again. The cracks in her story will eat your guts out.

You are not alone in the desire to make 'the' choice and start building back. That is why TT sucks so much. Small portions of the betrayal are fed to you slowly, over time as your are already recommitting. Each new piece of information cuts out another piece of your poor heart, but you rationalize 'that's it' and NOW we can really move on. Until the next piece.

From experience, I can tell you that drinking the bullshit Kool Aid doesn't build good will with a cheater- it encourages an increase in production.

No one here is saying R is not possible. Of course it is. If TT ruled out R- 95% if the board would be down in the Divorce and Separation. You don't have to commit to any version of the A right this second. I can say that for the most part, in many, many of the situations here that story evolves and changes. It is not a choice, but a process....

Hugs.


I don't respect anyone that can't spell a word more than one way:)

Posts: 3151 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Michigan
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 5:35 PM, May 10th (Friday)

I'm not trying to rug sweep. This is all I can handle. I'm sticking with "what does it matter?" She screwed up, she's sorry for it, etc. At some point for my own mental health, I have to give it to my higher power and move forward. Everything always comes out in the wash. I'm gonna hold my chin up and move forward. That's where I'm at now, maybe tomorrow will be different, who knows?

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
EasyDoesIt
Member
Member # 29514
Default  Posted: 5:52 PM, May 10th (Friday)

Hugs. This reality sucks, doesn't it? We understand and we're here for you every step of the way. If you make every possible correct choice and if you make a whole lot of wrong ones, we're here.

And we really do care.


Anything less than full disclosure and total transparency is pure bullshit. WARNING! No emotional pollution allowed.

Posts: 3686 | Registered: Sep 2010 | From: Georgia
cliffside
Member
Member # 38803
Default  Posted: 6:41 PM, May 10th (Friday)

Cal, I understand you're tired and worn out but at the very least ask her to read one of the books mentioned (Not Just Friends, After the Affair, etc). See if she does and you should read it too. If she doesn't, you have a lot of answers right there.


Me: BS 39
Him: WH 41
2 Kids
D-Day: 2/3/13
Broke NC 3/14
Very skeptically in R for now...

Posts: 261 | Registered: Mar 2013
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 6:46 PM, May 10th (Friday)

I probably am making wrong choices and will continue to. I've never been through this before. It does suck. Really sucks. It's pure hell. I can't believe this is my life. This sort of thing is supposed to happen to other people, not me. :-(

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
5yrsout
Member
Member # 32109
Default  Posted: 6:49 PM, May 10th (Friday)

Hi Cal,

As long as you mean "what does it matter?" for the details only.

The real issue is that your wife may not be actually remorseful yet. Some WS will feel regret for getting caught but continue to "justify" what they've done.

This is why we are concerned about you "rugsweeping" and trying to move on.

Some of the crap she said to you was definitely "foggy." When she said you needed to fill her heart, for example. THAT is evil, fog-speak for I did "what I had to do."

If she doesn't find true remorse, she will hurt you again.

Maybe not today. Maybe not for years. But, unless she is willing to dig deeply into her true reasons - NOT convenient excuses - but the real broken parts of her that allowed her to think ANY of this was okay...

I hope you stay strong. I hope she is remorseful. Confessing the whole ugly truth is one way of starting the path to true remorse and healing.

That is why we keep hammering the point.

I hope these two weeks will give you and her both clarity of direction and that you are both willing to do the hard work that is ahead.

Please do not blindly believe she is 100% committed yet. Trust but verify.

HUGS!


Now 7 Yrs Out - my prince is a frog
DD 5/15/2006

Posts: 774 | Registered: May 2011
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 7:46 AM, May 11th (Saturday)

She does feel remorse. That crap she said earlier about filling her love tank or it will happen again was just a couple of days after I made her cut off the affair. She's still coming to terms with how she could do this, how much hurt it caused, why the guilt was so great she kept almost telling on herself which would give me clues that she was doing something, how hard having an affair is/was, etc. Shes said more than once lately, "man, I'm never doing this again. And I don't ever wanna go through anything like this again." She is still de-fogging and every day, her head comes more and more out of the fog. It's not rig-sweeping, it's trying to claim back some of my sanity which for me at this point, is good.

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
Mack25
New Member
Member # 38913
Default  Posted: 8:14 AM, May 11th (Saturday)

Sorry you are going through this. Everyone who has gone through this never it thought it would happen to them. The reason it hurts so bad is because you still love her. I was hit by complete shock 2 mo ago when I found my drunk wife making out with a random guy. If you guys decide to R (which I think you will), I would recommend a new marriage counsellor. Also start reading the book 'Getting Past the Affair'. You both need to get to the bottom of why it happened which will be complicated and multifactorial. Even if you decide to leave, this book is helpful.

I disagree with most here about whether or not she had vginal sex. I think you are hung up on this as well to make you both feel better that she actually showed some restraint. I think cheating is cheating. She lied to you and lost your trust. She did something very intimate outside your marriage that she doesn't give to you (BJJ with a swallow). I think the reason to know if more happened is so that she can be trusted and he provides full disclosure. Ask yourself if he had sex with him will it chage your decision? Is that a deal breaker? You have to decide if you want to spend the rest of your life with her or not. This book will help.

I will say that hings get better every day but it takes time and if not easy.


BH: Me (40)
WW: Her 38
Married 5/5/2001
2 sons, ages 5 and 8
1 daughter age 8
WW drunk make out session with me in next room
D day 3/16/2013
Trying to R

Posts: 24 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Colorado
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 11:33 AM, May 11th (Saturday)

If she did have sex, it will suck more than I think it does not, no doubt. What am I gonna do? Divorce her and go marry somone else? I mean, I'm 41 years old. Most women my age that I could marry, are probably divorced and/or numeous sex partners. I'm not going to go out and look for some 20 year old girl that's young enough to be my daughter just so I can be this persons only man to ever have her. And , this is the big one, I can never have with anyone else what I have with my wife. I'll never have with my wife what I had before either whether she had vaginal sex or not. I'm hoping for something better. Many couples make it through worse stuff than this and have great marriages. We can too. But for my own mental health at this point, I am choosing to believe she didn't have sex. She said this was never about sex in the first place. And, if they did have sex, so what? Does that mean I don't love her anymore? No. I still will love her. So, I belive they didn't but if they did, I don't want to know about it. I can't keep obsessing about it. I have to move forward at some point. We've only been to the marriage counselor once. You're right, cheating is cheating, lying is lying, trust has been broken and its up to her to earn that back.

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
Gipper
Member
Member # 32232
Default  Posted: 1:49 PM, May 11th (Saturday)

I was a lot like you 3-4 years ago. Said the same things about my WW. Felt the same.

The thing is, in my experience, if you don't get all of this out and get all of your questions answered, then you're not really gonna move one. What you're choosing is obviously better than what you have now. But not knowing will always seem to nag at you, and there will always be a intimacy barrier between you. If I could go back 3 years I would get all of my questions answered truthfully before deciding to reconcile or not.


Posts: 717 | Registered: May 2011
circlingthedrain
Member
Member # 25733
Default  Posted: 2:25 PM, May 11th (Saturday)

calkid,

The thing is, you can't R without the truth. Your right, it may not matter that she fucked the guy, but it DOES matter if she is now willing to be truthful in EVERYTHING. Without her being truthful about everything you can co-habitat but you will never have the real marriage that you want and deserve. Truth is the foundation of forgiveness and for you two being able to work through this. Do you really want to reconcile with her if she is still lying to you? If so, I would gently suggest that you examine your thought process and understand what is driving your desire to R at all costs.


BH (me), 53
FWW (Her) 55
DD18, DS15
D-Day 12/23/2007
R going well

Wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then --- Bob Seger


Posts: 323 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: East Coast
solus sto
Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 4:01 PM, May 11th (Saturday)

I completely respect where you are today. I spent a long time in the same place.

The trick --- and it is VERY difficult, when things seem better-- is striking the right balance. You need truth, but perhaps not all the details.

Secrets and lies-- and your wife *is* still lying, either to ptotect you or herself-- create a barrier to intimacy. Not sex, but emotional intimacy. Without this, you're roommates or, if you're "lucky," friends with benefits.

Is this how you want to live, knowing that the lack of emotional intimacy increases the odds of repeat infidelity?

You don't have to decide today, or tomorrow, or anytime soon.

You just owe it to yourself to be honest with yourself.

[This message edited by solus sto at 12:51 AM, May 13th (Monday)]


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 52, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8294 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 7:25 PM, May 11th (Saturday)

I dtopped her off at the airport this morning. I thought I'd be really sad to see her go and I was but as soon as I walked away, I started to feel better. I got in the car and the further the way from the airport I got, the more relieved I felt. I have felt sad and lonely today but then something just happened. I had to move my truck SUV from the street into the garage and and I looked back at the back (middle) seat. I stared at it for a while and picture Mr. D laying back with this head and shoulders against the passenger side rear door. I pictured my wife laying acrross him sucking his dick. Him talking dirty to her and him cumming in her mouth. And then, it hit me. FUCKING BITCH! That's all I'm saying over and over again. FUCKING BITCH! I'm going to work on myself right now. I'm fucking angry I could just slap her around. She'll be lucky if I let that bitch back in the house!

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
somanyyears
Member
Member # 26970
Default  Posted: 7:36 PM, May 11th (Saturday)


..((((((calkid))))))

..i definitely know your pain.

..the fWW and bf did the same for 18 years..

horrible fucking mind movies.

no pain quite like it!!!!!

smy


trust no other human- love only your pets
She isn't and never was who I thought..I can't believe who I married and what she did to us.
Me 67
Her 63
Married 42 yrs (together 47)
18 yr LTA with bf


Posts: 4099 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: the sad state of affairs
shiloe
Member
Member # 1224
Default  Posted: 8:51 PM, May 11th (Saturday)

CalKid
Something got my woman’s intuition on alert, it was when you had just found out and she said this:
"Why are you still with me? I'm no good to anyone. You should just throw me away. I wouldn't blame you one bit if you packed my bags and threw me out on the street."

I think her and Mr. D had a lot more going on than you know of. He’s getting a divorce and will be free? I think they may have talked/planned on being together in the future, another page from the cheaters hand-book. That’s why she said that. She wanted you to throw her out, then you would be the BAD because of that and she could sneak around easier with Mr. Little Dick.
You made me laugh, you are 41, who would you find? That is young.
I was 52 and married for 26 yrs. and traded-in for a much younger model. But I would rather BE ALONE THAN BE WITH A CHEATER!!
Use your anger right now, let it work for you. No drinking, think of your future, you are stronger than you know. It’s all about you now.


But remember, good love is hard to find . . -Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers
BS - 54
Cheater -54
Married 26 yrs
DD - 21 DD -19 DS-17
A#1 2000 with married ho-worker/neighbor ow#1
A#2 2007-? OW#2 LTA with married ho-worker. Kicked him out, he filed

Posts: 565 | Registered: Mar 2003
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 12:18 AM, May 12th (Sunday)

Nah, I just had a good chat with one of her best friends who came to our house to drop off our daughter. Wow, was she honest about what my wife told her. So I've got the best friend, sis-in- law, Mr. D, and my wife all singing the same tune, No sex. She gave head, ass rubbing, kissing, sexting, and titty sucking but no sex.
She loves me, that's what she's telling everyone anyway and she wants to fix our marriage. What I don't get is, why she feels she needs to talk with or send a letter to Mr.D ending it her way. To apologize to him for letting it get so out of hand and wish him a good life. To "close the chapter" on the affair. We had this discussion tonight. I told her, you don't get to have the closure you're looking for with this improper adulteress relationship. Like its her right or something? C'mon, that's total b.s. This was not some boyfriend she had before she met me and got to end the relationship on her own terms! This was adultery and yes, this relationship was stolen from her when I found out about it. You don't get to say goodbye and good night. We couldn't agree so we are setting it aside for our next marriage counseling session. Sorry about the outburst earlier. That's anger talking, not the real me. I love her a lot.

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
la433
Member
Member # 38835
Default  Posted: 1:26 AM, May 12th (Sunday)

I thought I'd be really sad to see her go and I was but as soon as I walked away, I started to feel better. I got in the car and the further the way from the airport I got, the more relieved I felt.

Time apart will help you understand the anger you're feeling.

Anger is ok, and it is ok to express it here. You won't heal by keeping it bottled up.


"Arise and be all that you dreamed." ~Flyleaf

Posts: 136 | Registered: Mar 2013
ming56
Member
Member # 19505
Default  Posted: 6:13 AM, May 12th (Sunday)

Not saying it is the case here, but sometimes people get so comfortable or at least familiar with a situation that they cannot imagine life any other way. When she was gone and you drove off was likely the first time you were able to divorce yourself to any degree from the relationship as it now has become. The lesson I would draw? If you ultimately elect to end the relationship, you will be okay. If you decide to fight to save it, you will be in for a lot of anxiety and stress, but you will eventually be okay too. This is an emotional roller coaster, and your emotions will surely sway back and forth for some time. Simply said, there is no way out of the pain, but straight through it. Only you know how much you can and will take. We all are impatient to know where the road will lead, but only time will tell us that. If she is truly sorry, and truly wants to change then you have hope for a new future with her. From what I have read here it sounds like you have an inkling of her trying to change, but also are aware the fog is still present. Right now she still cannnot accept the need for no contact without having closure. Ultimately that attitude will change, otherwise there can be no healing. My wife worked with her partner in crime and at the time hard as it was I thought it made sense that she would have to remain civil and in contact with him. Years out I see that had to end (and it did quickly) or there would have been no movement towards her recovering and us healing. This ordeal is not a sprint but rather a distance run, but you will help yourself in that marathon by not just being understanding and forgiving of her past misdeeds, but also adament that you will be unyeilding in expecting her to show you respect and improvement, and by not allowing her to hide in the secrets for that is where these illicit relationships breed and grow. She will make it seem you are being too hard on her until she escapes the fog completely, and you will feel badly for being perhaps too harsh, however ultimately holding her accountable is what is best for both of you if there is to be a future for the two of you.

Posts: 305 | Registered: May 2008 | From: east coast
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 6:40 AM, May 12th (Sunday)

So, last night, I checked our computers browsing history. I saw that someone had gone to Mr.D's Facebook page and was looking at pics. Now, Mr.D has blocked my wife and I so through our profiles, we can't even see bis page. So, what did my wife do? She created a new fb account using my 6 year old son's name. This account has no friends, no messages, nothing. It appears, all she was doing was looking at pics. Right before her trip down south though? So, I hacked into the account and changed the password. My 6 year old is too young to fb anyway. Then I blocked Mr.D through that account. What should I do? Should I ask her wtf she's doing and why she's done this or what?

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
shiloe
Member
Member # 1224
Default  Posted: 6:55 AM, May 12th (Sunday)

Geeze . . .sorry to hear that, seems to never end for you. Go ahead and ask her about it, see what she says. She may get angry that you were checking out things. But she can always make new accounts. You can’t police her forever, there are so many ways for her to have contact with him. I think he is done with her but she can’t completely let go yet, may take some time.


But remember, good love is hard to find . . -Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers
BS - 54
Cheater -54
Married 26 yrs
DD - 21 DD -19 DS-17
A#1 2000 with married ho-worker/neighbor ow#1
A#2 2007-? OW#2 LTA with married ho-worker. Kicked him out, he filed

Posts: 565 | Registered: Mar 2003
traildad
Member
Member # 35258
Default  Posted: 7:25 AM, May 12th (Sunday)

I'm sorry calkid - the new fb account just proves she is still not being honest with you. She is still in the fog. She is taking advantage of you being nice. Every time you think you have the whole truth and she is being honest, you find out she is lying again.

Keep firm on the NC and she may lose her interest in OM and come out of the fog.

Good luck calkid, you are doing well, this is awful.

[This message edited by traildad at 7:28 AM, May 12th (Sunday)]


Me BH - 33
3 beautiful young children
DDay 12/13/11
Divorced.

Posts: 650 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Michigan
solus sto
Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 8:10 AM, May 12th (Sunday)

Shes said more than once lately, "man, I'm never doing this again. And I don't ever wanna go through anything like this again."
This is not remorse! This is about her. (She might as well have said, "Man, I'm not doing this again. It's not nearly as much fun as I thought it would be.")

Remorse looks and sounds completely different.

One thing I find very, very unsettling and worrisome about your situation: that your wife is telling all of her friends the same tale, then having them report to you, "Yep! She told me the exact same thing!"---and your subsequent conclusion that what you're being told must therefore be true.

This is NOT normal behavior. It's not typical, and it's worrisome because it crosses ALL kinds of boundaries. It is disrespectful of you, to report to others for their participation. It turns friends who MIGHT have been trustworthy friends of the marriage into people she will need to excise from her life, should you reconcile, because they were willing to conspire with her to minimize her affair. And ----quite frankly--it's just plain creepy.

These are not actions of a remorseful woman. They are actions of a desperate woman. And desperate does NOT translate into, "great candidate for R." Why? Because she's not desperate for you to know the whole truth. She's not desperate to help you feel better. She's not desperate to heal the damage she's caused and build a stronger relationship.

She's desperate to save her ass.

How about this: just STOP. Just stop discussing the affair, its consequences, your future together.

And instead, detach a bit.

Read the 180.

Then carry it out.

It's hard, but do the best you can. If you break it, start again.

If you can only apply some of the aspects, do that.

But put it into action, as best you can.

Really, you have nothing to lose. At this point, you do not have a marriage. You have a still-lying wife who's still engaged (the Facebook thing? that's breaking NC) in her affair, if only emotionally. Emotional will lead to contact, if "Mr. D" permits. Given that he's a scumbag, this is likely. But if not, there are lots of Mr. Ds in this world.

If she's still got Mr. D in her head and heart---creating a FB page for a kindergartner to access him!---then she's NOT remorseful. She's NOT focused on repairing the damage she's done. She's NOT feeling one iota of empathy for you.

Yet.

It is early days, and she may well reach remorse and empathy. But she's NOWHERE NEAR either at this point.

Let the little bit of detachment the 180 affords give you some clarity. You are currently crazed. Your view is very distorted. You are seeing what you want to see, not what is there.

It's time to look at things through new eyes.

In the meantime, let your wife feel---just a little---what life without your constant engagement (because, bro, your current frenzied behavior is giving her what is referred to as secondary gain; though it's not the attention she would have liked, ideally, it's attention----and she's getting off on it) might bring. Let HER figure out how to be a healthy woman satisfied with her life. Let her learn that this deep satisfaction with life has nothing to do with the other people in her life, but rather with HERSELF.

Focus it on YOU. Read the 180. Put it into action.

Do not engage in discussions of the future. If she speaks to you, respond pleasantly but briefly. Occupy yourself with other things, even if you don't feel like it. Be less available, less needy, less desperate.

What you might find is that the marriage you have is NOT one you want.

What you might find is that the marriage you have CAN be repaired.

What you might find is that the marriage you have CANNOT be repaired----and that, shockingly, you don't want it to be.

It's really amazing, what a little detachment and observation can give you. Right now, you're ....spinning your wheels. I know. I did it for months longer than I should have.

As long as your wife cherishes her secrets and lies and PROTECTING HERSELF more than she values you and your marriage, you don't have a marriage.

You will not be able to reconcile with a woman who lacks both remorse and empathy. Ever.

Will remorse and empathy surface over time? It's as likely they will as not.

So step back. Observe. STOP TALKING TO THE CREEPY FRIENDS WHO SHE'S USING TO CONFIRM HER TALE, and watch her actions. What is she doing NOW AND EVERY DAY to demonstrate her investment in the marriage? What is she doing NOW AND EVERY DAY to rebuild trust? What is she doing NOW AND EVERY DAY to be transparent? What is she doing NOW AND EVERY DAY to show you that she is willing to do the work to become a woman you would be proud to remain married to?

We both know you don't have answers to those questions yet. You haven't looked for them because you've been shocked, then panicky---just plain frantic--to convince yourself that it's not "as bad" as you think.

Accept that it is. Accept that there's likely much, much more---more, that she will hopefully reveal of her own volition.

If she does not, that gives you very important information about the direction your life will take. You will spend more years with a woman who prefers to allow secrets and lies to form an impenetrable barrier to the emotional intimacy required for a satisfying marriage (and is therefore far more vulnerable to continued or repeat infidelities). Or you will reach, over time (and this may be months or even years), the conclusion that this is NOT the marriage you want, the wife you want.

You are concerned about being a quitter. But it takes TWO to reconcile a marriage. She already quit. Any successful reconciliation starts with a commitment to NC, complete honesty, and transparency. Though it may take time, remorse and empathy will follow--unless your wife is not capable of forming these. (You don't give any indication this is the case.)

I hope you see them soon.

I hope you develop the presence of mind to really honestly assess the situation as it is, rather than how you wish it were.

And I hope you get yourself into IC so that you can gain the strength you need, the confidence in yourself, and the deep satisfaction YOU deserve---all of which comes from within.

[This message edited by solus sto at 8:45 AM, May 12th (Sunday)]


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 52, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8294 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 8:22 AM, May 12th (Sunday)

Calkid,

can you verify Mr. D is where he should be and not where your WW is? Can you monitor her cell calls and texts?


LTA BS 53
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4074 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
sinsof thefather
Member
Member # 29295
Default  Posted: 8:53 AM, May 12th (Sunday)

Please read solus sto's post again and again - she's absolutely spot on there with everything she said.

Someone who is prepared to use her own 6 year old child's name to break NC with her AP - hiding it all from you, is nowhere NEAR remorseful or ready for R yet - and please don't believe her friends know any more of the truth than you do. They ONLY know what she has told them. Liars will lie to anyone.

Please try the 180 calkid it may help you to detach a bit and see more clearly.


(((calkid)))


...second star to the right and straight on till morning.

Posts: 1837 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: UK
Brokenheart777
Member
Member # 38561
Default  Posted: 9:09 AM, May 12th (Sunday)

Wow! solus's post! Read it! Read it again. And then read it 3 more times. It is absolutely spot on, calkid. I'm a fighter too. I have the mentality that if you really want something that you have to fight for it. But that's not how this stuff works. You can fight, but fight for yourself. Your WW is DEFINITELY still off in fantasy land and you are suffering because of it. Protect yourself. Detach from the bullshit and find what makes you feel better. Only your WW can fix her own shit. Whether she will is the question but you need to detach from that outcome to help yourself. And as already stated, PLEASE get in to IC. It's incredibly beneficial. I love going to see my therapist every week.
Wishing you strength and well wishes brother.


ME - A new person
HER - A waining memory
DDay - 2/22/2013
2-3 month EA/PA
Together for 6 years, ready to start my life . . .

"I can fill the flask up, but can't get past us
I'm in the storm, staying strong, but can't get back


Posts: 177 | Registered: Feb 2013
HardenMyHeart
Member
Member # 15902
Default  Posted: 1:38 PM, May 12th (Sunday)

She created a new fb account using my 6 year old son's name. This account has no friends, no messages, nothing. It appears, all she was doing was looking at pics.

Pay close attention to her "actions", not her words. Words can lie, but her actions tell you where her heart is at. It sounds to me like she is keeping her options open with respect to the OM. She knows her marriage is hanging by a thread and she may need a place to land.

So sorry for what you are going through.


Me: BH, Her: FWW - Long Term EA/PA
d-day: June 25, 2007
Married 29 years, Happily Reconciled

Posts: 5622 | Registered: Aug 2007
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 11:45 PM, May 12th (Sunday)

So, the fb thing was driving me crazy. So, I called her tonight and asked, "what are,you doing creating another fb account for out son and going to look at Mr.D's fb?" No answer on the phone. I asked again, what are you doing? No answer. What are you doing? "Just curious, that's all." Earlier today, I clicked on all the links in the history and she was just looking at pics. I asked, "did you message him or chat?" "No, just the pics." I asked her if she was still having problems with letting him go and this is what she said, "Yes, I am. We were already winding things down but I didn't get to end things my way. You and your brother and his wife swooped in and told me what I was going to do. It wasn't my choice. I am having problems because I didn't get to end the affair my way. I didn't get to say the things I wanted to say to him. I wanted to close the chapter but I didn't get to, You got to call him and tell him all the things you wanted to but I didn't. I didn't get that chance." I went nuclear. "You act like you have the God given right to end this illegal relationship on your terms. You don't deserve the right to wish your boyfriend a good life a then watch him ride off into te sunset!" She responded with, "We need to discuss this with Dr. So in so (marriage counselor) "goodbye" ad hung up the phone. See? It's still all about her! She started this affair because she was only thinking about herself in the first place. And now, she still is. This is just crazy. I have been the best most understanding husband I could be since I found out about this and don't deserve any of this. I mean, does anyone here think I'm wrong? "She also added somewhere in this conversation, I still have feelings for him. I'm not in love with him but I do have feelings for him" A guy you've only known for 3 months! C'mon here. You've known me for 23 years and I have never taken advantage or plaid you yet this guy has. Could she possibly be a bigger fool?

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
Hurt2Deeply
Member
Member # 38317
Default  Posted: 11:52 PM, May 12th (Sunday)

Calkid,

I want you to know I care about you and your suffering. There is so much information to try to handle. So much is happening and your life has been turned completely upside down. This is still very fresh and raw for you. It is pain that cuts to the core of your soul. I know.

I'm sure it is hard to hear all these responses of more going on than you know and all the other info. You have done very well to work on your life and M as well as share your very raw feelings. It takes some vulnerability share your innermost feelings and hear all the responses. Fortunately you are among friends. People who know the grief and pain and care about you.

Hang on. You are a good man. You can respect yourself for your behavior even though she has misbehaved and betrayed you so badly.

It takes a long time to work things out and heal. Yet I can assure you things will get better for you eventually. Somehow the pain gets less and is not as sharp.

I think it is good you have this time alone. It is hard to maintain that high stress level for too long. This way you can regulate more the amount of emotional effort you put into your wife for a while. It will give you time to step back think and reflect.

I know it does not feel comfortable having to track her behavior, but I think when you are dealing with a liar who is this significant in your life you must do so. You can not afford to not be aware of what she is doing. I firmly believe "Ignorance is not bliss!"
You really do need to know what you are dealing with. If it is bad you need to know. If it is good you can relax some after time.

I recommend signing up for premium access so you can learn more investigative techniques.

Do something just for you now.

Blessings.

H2D


Me BS 57
Him FWH 60
M 35 years
3 Adult kids
R
3 Grandkids

Posts: 90 | Registered: Jan 2013
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 11:57 PM, May 12th (Sunday)

Oh yeah, my son was listening through the door of my bedroom this morning and heard me talking about all this to a friend. My son is 16 years old. " Did Mom cheat on you dad?" I asked what in the world would make him ask me a question like that and he said, " I heard you talking about it on the phone and you called Mr.D a douche bag. I told him yes, his mother had an affair with Mr.D. Then told him not to tell his sister. "She already knows" "How?" "She grabbed your iPad the other day and on your safari, you had a bunch of tabs about. How to trust your wife after she cheats" then later tat day she told my son, "I think mom is cheating on dad and here's why." Plus on Friday when I came home from work, my wife was in the guest room talking rather loudly to my sis-in-law about her dinner with Mr. D out east a couple of weeks ago and my daughter (who is 14) could hear everything she was saying. I to,d her to go upstairs when I saw this. So, now what do I do? Do I tell the wife the kids know with her being down south, 2000 miles away or wait til she gets back to let her know the kids know?

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 12:16 AM, May 13th (Monday)

Also, what's the 180? Where do I find it?

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
Hurt2Deeply
Member
Member # 38317
Default  Posted: 12:18 AM, May 13th (Monday)

I don't think there is a rush to tell her. Take more time to talk with your kids about it yourself and share your perspective of what is happening.

Let them ask you questions and be open and honest with them. Take into consideration there ages. You do not have to answer some questions if it is too much info. I think it is better for them to hear this from you rather than someone else.

They will need you especially now to be strong for them. That is tough. Kids that age understand much and they need to be informed with honesty. Ask them what questions they have and what they are thinking. That will help you know more about their needs rather than telling them some things that are not as necessary for them to know.


Me BS 57
Him FWH 60
M 35 years
3 Adult kids
R
3 Grandkids

Posts: 90 | Registered: Jan 2013
HurtButHopeful?
Member
Member # 25144
Default  Posted: 12:37 AM, May 13th (Monday)

I've been reading your thread, and I am so sorry about what you (and now your children) are going through, and your pain.

I admire your clairity of mind, and your ability to express your feelings to your WW, rather than stuffing them down.

Regarding your children: at their age they understand a lot. Don't insult or isolate them by trying to hid your pain, or what is going on. They don't need to know the blow by blow account, but they do need to know that their mom has (hopefully) temporarily lost her mind, is having an affair, and will hopefully come to her senses again and become the mom and wife she was before she went bonkers.

That is the truth, doesn't totally degrade mom in the children's eyes, gives them hope and allows them to work on their own feelings, while watching you work out yours.

If your WW doesn't come out of it the older children will need to talk out their feelings with you or a counselor.

So sorry...I hope she comes back to her senses and hasn't turned into a totally selfish, heartless serial cheater.

You hang in there, take care of yourself and your children.


Reconciliation means that we both are authentic and vulnerable. I still have my H, and he's a better man than ever!

Posts: 1716 | Registered: Aug 2009
HardenMyHeart
Member
Member # 15902
Default  Posted: 1:01 AM, May 13th (Monday)

Also, what's the 180? Where do I find it?

Information about the 180 is in the healing library. Here is the direct link;
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/faq_bs.asp#FAQ11

You may also find the following thread useful titled, Understanding the 180:
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=232785


Me: BH, Her: FWW - Long Term EA/PA
d-day: June 25, 2007
Married 29 years, Happily Reconciled

Posts: 5622 | Registered: Aug 2007
solus sto
Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 1:06 AM, May 13th (Monday)

I'm sorry I didn't clarify. The 180 is located in the Healing Library, which is in the yellow box to the left.

It's #11 in the FAQs for BSs.

(Grrr...forgive my typos; my Nook makes it hard to edit, which drives me nuts because I'm a writer/editor.)

And it's very tricky. Be kind to yourself as you attempt it. It takes time because it seems counterintuitive.

But give it a fair shake. It helps...it truly does. It gives you the distance to see things more clearly.

As for your kids knowing: I agree, this is amongst the most tragic fallout. But it is a nearly-inevitable natural consequence of infidelity, particularly when remorse isn't immediate. sometimes, when the WS immediately is remorseful, it can be avoided. But in a life fraught with dishonesty, telling kids the truth, though hard, can be positive; it reinforces their trust in you. It teaches them empathy for their struggling mom, and it prevents them from being blindsided if things head south.

You're doing so well. You really are. Millions of hugs and much strength to you. We all do care.

[This message edited by solus sto at 1:15 AM, May 13th (Monday)]


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 52, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8294 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
leakingheart85
Member
Member # 9710
Default  Posted: 3:10 AM, May 13th (Monday)

You have a PM my brother

Posts: 462 | Registered: Feb 2006 | From: Caribbean
5yrsout
Member
Member # 32109
Default  Posted: 5:46 AM, May 13th (Monday)

(((Calkid)))

This sucks. Every.single.thing.about.it.

I am so sorry for your pain. And, your wife's sh*tty behavior and SELFISHNESS.

Regarding your kids...
Unfortunately, just as people who have not experienced the pain of infidelity not completely understanding all of the fall out... please understand that your children may not "get" the big deal either.

My 14-yr old son hopped on my laptop (I forgot to logout of SI) and he read my profile.

I was upset for him and wanted to minimize the repercussions for my fWH. But it was completely unnecessary! My DS said "meh, what's the big deal? it was a long time ago. you need to get over yourself."

sigh. While I hope he NEVER experiences the soul-crushing pain of infidelity, I certainly did not expect such an ambivilent response either.

Anyway, just saying, do not expect the kids to feel or react the same as you do... Try to keep them out of on-going drama. But, do be honest with them if they have questions. Expect they can be very conflicted and may fall for your wife's explanations (when she gets back or talks to them.)

THIS ALL JUST SUCKS.
So sorry you are here.


Now 7 Yrs Out - my prince is a frog
DD 5/15/2006

Posts: 774 | Registered: May 2011
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 7:12 AM, May 13th (Monday)

Am I being a jerk here about my wife's feelings about closure? Am I in the wrong? Does she really need that to truly let go and move on or is she still being selfish? I'm 100% convinced that she never would have told me about the affair had I not forced her. And, I'm not convinced she wouldn't still be in it had I not forced her to quit.

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
la433
Member
Member # 38835
Default  Posted: 7:15 AM, May 13th (Monday)

"Could she possibly be a bigger fool?"

The question you need to ask yourself is not is your wife a bigger fool, but are you going to be her fool?

I know it's sounds corny and not necessarily about infidelity, but really think about what Tom Keifer (of Cinderella) wrote:

I count the falling tears
They fall before my eyes
Seems like a thousand years
Since we broke the ties
I call you on the phone
But never get a rise
So sit there all alone
It's time you realize

I'm not your fool
Nobody's fool
Nobody's fool
I'm no fool
Nobody's fool
Nobody's fool
Never again, no, no

You take your road, i'll take mine
The paths have both been beaten
Searchin' for a change of pace
Love needs to be sweetened
I scream my heart out, just to make a dime
And with that dime i bought your love
But now i've changed my mind

I'm not your fool
Nobody's fool
Nobody's fool
I'm no fool
Nobody's fool
Nobody's fool
Never again, no, no


"Arise and be all that you dreamed." ~Flyleaf

Posts: 136 | Registered: Mar 2013
heforgotme
Member
Member # 38391
Default  Posted: 7:24 AM, May 13th (Monday)

Am I being a jerk here about my wife's feelings about closure?

No. She wants everything tied up with a pretty little bow. Nothing about this is pretty. That she could even say that to you tells me that she is still living in selfish land.

Some WSes do have trouble detaching from the AP. But that is something they should deal with internally. Not something they should tell you about and expect you to understand. And no, they do not get to do anything about it. NC is NC.


D-Day 11/15/12
5 month PA
Married 20 years, 3 kids
All good is hard. All evil is easy. Dying, losing, cheating, and mediocrity is easy. Stay away from easy.
- Scott Alexander
It was the day I thought I'd never get through - Daughtry

Posts: 1064 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: FL
mike7
Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 7:42 AM, May 13th (Monday)

Have you decided about the polygraph yet?


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 507 | Registered: Mar 2013
mike7
Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 7:52 AM, May 13th (Monday)

it seems to me that you have been the loving caring father for all, even for her. it seems she is resenting you taking control of her affair. Remember her comment "i got married right after high school?"

and now she has five kids.

so it's like she wants to be free of the control and wants to experience life a little. And when she does it, you step in, stop it, and tell her what to do.

she's clearly thinking only about what she needs right now. She's not worried about the impact of her words and actions on you.

So you're dealing with a WS who is going through a midlife crisis.

I'm hoping someone smarter than me can give advice on that.


No, it is not unreasonable of you to tell her she can't have closure on her own terms. That's bullshit. But if the counsellor isn't experienced with infidelity, they may say, "what would it hurt?"

But you see, that's wrong, because it extends her relationship with him and gives absolutely no concern for your feelings. everytime she contacts him and tells you that she thinks wistfully about him it's like a knife in your heart.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 507 | Registered: Mar 2013
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 7:54 AM, May 13th (Monday)

Nope not a jerk.

This is sooo typical of the WS. "I need closure, my way" is A speak for I need to contact him again so we can figure out a way to take this thing underground.

About your kids, they know, and it sounds like your wife tipped her hat, prior to you. I wouldn't tell while away, unless one of the kids is really having a tough time dealing with it. In this day and age, most kids know or are friends with someone who's parents are D'd, and because of infidelity. So they may have lots of questions about what's next. I know my kids would (16 & 14). Be honest, and reassure them that it has nothing to do with them. You will both love them no matter what happens between you and your spouse.

I would honestly be very concerned that she is NOT NC w/ her AP. He behavior is not of remorse for what she did, but remorse for being caught at what she was doing. There is a big difference. As you start to feel anger, use this constructively. Get a keylogger on her computer/ipad etc. Find out if she is telling the truth, because believe me, if you don't and she isn't you are allowing yourself lots more hurt/pain/sorrow. If she is not, then it lets you start to rebuild the trust.

(((and strength Cali))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 7785 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
Shockleader
Member
Member # 36827
Default  Posted: 8:23 AM, May 13th (Monday)

Be very careful with the MC; it could turn into a quack one validating her and her bullshit, and then she will throw this in your face... Happened to me when the POS MC told me my STBX's OPOS cheater at work was just a "symptom" of a bad M, and that I needed to work on myself, and not worry about him, and that he would be the last person she would run off with.

I told MC that was bullshit, STBX stormed out of the office, and the MC told me I threw her under the bus, and I needed to go outside and apologize to her. Yep, sure enough, STBX continued to deepen the relationship, tons more lies, she was still completely unremorseful, blamed the A 100% on me, became completely unrecognizable, and yeah, she ended up running off with POS.

Here is how it goes IMO and terrible experience. You tell her however you do, that tough shit about no "closure", and tell her flat out that if she does meet/talk/text/fb a single time, D papers will be served immediately, and MEAN IT! Do not give her a second to add to your ruination, because it will be nothing but co-coordination between these cheaters to screw you over more. You must believe that anything you think is too crazy, or she would never, isn't, and it would be easier to have a heroin junky go cold turkey and fix themselves than these cheaters... Believe it!

YOU MUST be fully able to end the M to potentially save it. Believe me, I know how awful this shit is, I really do, but as long as she is calling the shots, you are going to stay in limbo-land, and in hell.

Strength to you friend.


D-Day spring 2012
Me BS 47
XWW 44
One DD 19
Married 23 years
Divorced 12/23/13 Fu*king A!

The cruel, the unkind, those without honor, feast on the tender heart...


Posts: 608 | Registered: Sep 2012
damaged71
Member
Member # 36004
Default  Posted: 12:21 PM, May 13th (Monday)

Calkid...

I think you are starting to see why I posted what I did on page 3. I'll recap so you don't have to go look

"If I had it to do over again I would have filed for divorce. Did I want to work it out? Sure I did but it would have saved me a world of heartache. You can't bring them back around with love. It just ain't gonna happen. This is a wake up call situation.

If I would have served my wife with papers, all her shenanigans would have come to a complete and abrupt halt immediately. But I didn't and it drug on for months."

What ends up happening is like a drug addict and their disease. It's like thinking if I love them more they'll stop. That just doesn't happen. Only when they have to make hard choices do they commit to change.

Right now Ms. Calkid probably has no incentive to make hard choices. She is punching holes in the life boat and knowing the whole time no matter what, you will keep her afloat.

It's been a year for me and my wife said the other day "how was it possible for me to do what I did"? "What was I thinking"?

These are the statements of someone that has stepped back and realized how foolish their actions were.

I know you are feeling that if you just try harder you can keep it together but that choice isn't yours, it's hers.

Only when I was willing to let my wife go did she wake up. Once I was willing it was pretty instant.

My Dad once told me that a monkey won't turn loose of a branch until he has ahold of another. He said a woman is the same way. (No offense to anyone). It was true. My wife kept me on the hook in case the OM fell through.

If I would have filed for divorce and she would have said "I'm free" he would have said "no thanks" and it would have been over. I didn't let that happened and suffered for months.

My marriage is good now and we are back together.


I didn't know there was this much emotional pain in the universe!
Me 42
Her 44
D-day 5.18.12
Currently in R

Posts: 341 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: damaged71
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 3:23 PM, May 13th (Monday)

My sis-in-law had a nice chat with her this morning. Basically told her that she's acting like a teenager and she needed to grow up, "for crying out loud, you're there with yout grandson. You're not a teenager! Grow up and be responsible for your action. You don't get to have things your way. You'll never understand how Calkid is feeling because you've never had this done to you." "We'll, this is how I felt about his porn addiction." "Really? That's not even in the same ballpark. What did he do? Watch some movies and masturbate? Not the same thing and you know it! You put another mans penis in your mouth, had intimate moments with another man, and total innapropriate conversations with him!" "We'll, I didn't end things on my terms and didn't have any control over how things ended between us. All my power to make my own decisions was stripped away from me." Then sis-in-law said, "You have forfitted your right to make your own decisions for a while if you want to remain with Calkid and the family. And besides, last time you tried to end it on your own terms, you ended up in the back of Mr.T's truck with your tits in his mouth. Why would you do that?" "I don't know. I guess I thought it was fun." So then sis-in-law tells me, that my wife called Mr. D 1/2 hour after I called him 2 weeks ago and he wouldn't even talk to her. He said, "Its too dangerous for me to talk to you. I cannot talk, goodbye." Then she sent the texts saying that I knew about the affair and stuff. Mrs. Calkid still hasn't told me she tried to call him. Why is she still playing games and still hiding stuff? I can't even tell her I know about the phone call because sis-in-law swore me to seceretcy. Why is she still feeling like this? Is she still in the fog? How much longer til she comes out of the fog? Whey can't she let this piece of trash that doesn't give two shits about her go? Or is it the affair she's having problems letting go of? She says she's not in love with him but he still has feelings for him. He doesn't value her at all yet, I think the world of her. This is just a mess. Just an absolute mess. I read the 180 and that's what I'm doing. No texts or calls unless its about the kids or our std tesing results. Which came back negative for SGC. Which is good.

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
mike7
Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 3:44 PM, May 13th (Monday)

friend,

i read something a while back that I think is true. It says one of the key things to having a great marriage is a willingness to divorce. It doesn't mean wanting to divorce, it means actually willing to divorce if your needs aren't being met.

i think your wife knows that you dote on her and she doesn't feel any fear at all. she figures you'll just forgive her, so in her state of mind, what does she have to do?

honestly, if i were in your shoes, I'd have the papers for her to sign when she got back. Tell her it's obvious she still has feelings for the guy and still wants it to continue, and you can't handle it.

And then refuse to talk about it.

Maybe that's too extreme, but you really have to pull a 180. A real hard one. She has nothing to lose because she knows you'll be there.

She needs to feel the consequences of her decisions. Just think of all the lies she's told you.

it's been said many times, women respect strength, not weakness. stand up for yourself.

anyway, i wish you the best.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 507 | Registered: Mar 2013
bluewater
Member
Member # 9297
Default  Posted: 4:39 PM, May 13th (Monday)

Why is she still playing games and still hiding stuff?

Simply and bluntly (and painfully) she is liar and a cheat. She lied to you and cheated on you so she could enjoy the thrill and excitement of her sordid affair.

You can try to avoid seeing her for what she is. You can wish these truths away all you want. What you want changes nothing, The fact remains that your wife is what she is. Whether you accept these facts about your wayward wife of not is entirely up to you but unfortunately the facts remain.

Until she comes 100% clean and admits to all that she did and continues to do you cannot trust her. She has to "walk the walk". Her words have zero value.

Earlier you said that she offered to do a polygraph to prove that she was telling you the truth. After reading almost two weeks of your posts I am more convinced than ever that this was just a bluff on her part. Call it. Make the appointment.

And while I hate to say this I urge you to prepare yourself for even worse news. If she is still trying to contact him and lying to your about it, don't be surprised if she is also lying about how far she went with him. I know I (and i suspect many other BS's here) would not be surprised to find that oral wasn't the end of it,

Hope for sunshine but prepare for rain.

I repeat, she is a cheat and a liar. Protect yourself.

Sorry that you are here.


Posts: 488 | Registered: Jan 2006
Lucky
Member
Member # 6864
Default  Posted: 6:14 PM, May 13th (Monday)

Why is she still playing games and still hiding stuff?

Do you really want to hear the answer? I mean we are on page 11 and 206 reponses and you've effectively blown us off and ignored pretty much all of the advice thus far.


♥ WINE - the other fruit juice! ♥


Posts: 36162 | Registered: Apr 2005
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 8:57 PM, May 13th (Monday)

Well, I had a pretty good talk with her this afternoon. She said she still has a lot of feelings to sort out. I said, feelings about what? The whole thing. About the affair, how it effected me, how it could have effected the kids, how she cold have done it, etc. I added her feelings about Mr.D? She said she doesnt have feelings for him. "That's not what you said last night?" Well I liked how he made me feel but I don't really have feelings for him. I just need to process all these feelings. I feel like I haven't had a chance to do that yet. I've been so concerned about you, I haven't taken the time to decide how I feel about everything. SNL says I should stop feeling and just push everything down and do what's right." I answered, "I'm hearing a lot of me and I coming out of your mouth. That's the problem. That's all you've been thinking about for the last 3 months. Who was the one person on your mind during this whole affair?" "What? Mr.D?" "You did this whole thing for Mr.D?" "No." "Then who'd you do it for?" "Myself." "That's right. You've been very selfish. You certainly weren't thinking about me and the kids! Life is not all about you." "We'll, I just don't feel I have any choices." "Sure you do. You can take a plane back east and find Mr.D and see if hell take you back." "I don't want to be with him and his crazy lifestyle." "Ok, but that's one choice. Or you can go back there and live with your sister and leave us alone. Or, you can come back here and shack up with one of your friends but that won't be pleasant cuz I'll fight you for the kids and I'll win cuz I'm a good father and you can't provide for them, plus it will be nasty and expensive and painful. Or, you can come back to the man that loves you more than anyone and your kids." "I choose my family." "Then, stop looking back and let it go. It's over. Look forward with me." "I know I need to, I just need some time to let this all go and lit it in the past. So, blah blah blah, the conversation ended pretty well. Earlier, I had to register my u-verse account so I could get the home phone records which incidently, changed our email password. So, she called me and asked if I changed the password and i had to tell her what I did. She asked why i did it and i told her so i could get the home phone records. Man, was she irritated. I gotta go, bye. Then I texted her and asked if she was upset. The said, Nope. Y would I be? I said, ok, just making sure, you sounded upset. Nope fine. Wonder why she's so mad?

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
mike7
Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 9:10 PM, May 13th (Monday)

well, you're making headway. good for you. for what it's worth, i think you're moving very quickly in the right direction. i think some of us here forget what a shock it is to realize the person you love is sneaking and lying. i know that i for one certainly had a much more innocent view of my wife when it happened to me.

keep being vigilant calkid. it may be counterintuitive, but i think being on top of things is the best chance you have of saving your marriage. if you just read this thread you will see how much you've been misled in the last couple of weeks.

hang in there!


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 507 | Registered: Mar 2013
CheaterMagnet
Member
Member # 33581
Default  Posted: 9:13 PM, May 13th (Monday)

She's mad because you're going to find out more lies.

but that won't be pleasant cuz I'll fight you for the kids and I'll win cuz I'm a good father and you can't provide for them, plus it will be nasty and expensive and painful.

So, now you are basically trying to blackmail her into staying with you?

Cal, You are grasping so hard trying to control something in this situation and you can't. You can't make her see reason. You can't make her honor her vows to you. You can't make her feel what you want her to feel. You need to stop leading her by the nose until she says what you want to hear.

Back off and watch what she does. Not what she says. She is a proven liar and liars lie. She will continue to lie to you until she pulls her own head out of her own ass. You can't do it for her. You can't do the work to fix her brokenness. She is the only one who can do that. You need to step back and give her a chance to do it or not without you trying to control the outcome.


If Happy Ever After did exist, I would still be holding you like this.
All those fairly tales are full of shit.
One more fucking love song I'll be sick. ~ Maroon 5

Posts: 988 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Kailua-Kona, HI
bluewater
Member
Member # 9297
Default  Posted: 9:22 PM, May 13th (Monday)

So, blah blah blah, the conversation ended pretty well

Go and re-read all your posts to date. ALL of your conversations with her seem to "have ended well". But each time she reveals herself to be a liar who continues to lie.


Wonder why she's so mad?

You already know the answer to your question.


Posts: 488 | Registered: Jan 2006
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 11:08 PM, May 13th (Monday)

No blackmail. Just listed possible choices and possible consequences for those choices. It's like this, she needs time to accept that fantasy land is over and done. I know she loves me and the kids. She just needs to let it go and come back to reality. And, you guys are right. I want her to chose us because its what she wants. That's why I'm practicing the 180. No texting or calling her while she's down south. If she wants to talk, she can call me. In the mean time, I'm gonna work on being a strong, happy man that is living in the present and looking forward to the future God has in store for me and my family.

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
nuance
Member
Member # 28793
Default  Posted: 11:14 PM, May 13th (Monday)

Then I texted her and asked if she was upset

This is not 180 though. Don't contact her unless kids or emergencies.


Dday May 2000. R'ed.
People suck.

Posts: 1183 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: California
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 12:03 AM, May 14th (Tuesday)

I worry about doing a full 180 because everything that is listed on there is what got me into this mess in the first place. Not calling or texting her during the day, not taking her out, or paying attention to her, etc. Then this f*cking douche bag shows up and does all the things I wasn't doing and then some and then she falls for it. I don't want anything like that to ever happen again.

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
ming56
Member
Member # 19505
Default  Posted: 5:35 AM, May 14th (Tuesday)

Sad reality is people need to hit a hard bottom to gain clarity and want to change. She keeps manipulating, and while understandable that you keep seeking a best practical solution, consensus does not work when the other person is in a fog. IMO you need to make everything contingent on honesty, and give her no angles to play. There are consequences for behavior, and she keeps trying to find a way around dealing with consequences for her actions.

Posts: 305 | Registered: May 2008 | From: east coast
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 6:55 AM, May 14th (Tuesday)

For the 23 years I've known her, she's always had high morals, knew right from wrong, and always, (well, not always) chose to do right. She's always been honest too. For the last 3 months, I've seen her do thinkgs, I've never thought her capable of. I can't believe she got to the point where she thought adultery was justifyable and the amount of lies and deception she did. This is soooo not like her. Is she really a liar and a cheat or is it because she's in the fog? Can she change back to the person I once knew and have thsoe morals and honesty back?

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 8:07 AM, May 14th (Tuesday)

Good morning calkid,

Is your WW remorseful and working to heal her M to you?

No, and this is why many are recommending the 180 for you. You are worried that implementing the 180, which is about taking care of you, not punishing her, will drive her away. The thing is she is already gone, she has been gone since well before dday.

I worry about doing a full 180 because everything that is listed on there is what got me into this mess in the first place.

No, it is not. Your WW looking for attention from OP to fill a hole within her is what got you into this situation. Your WW looking for attention from OM rather than address issues with you is what created this mess. Further, how much of your inattention was initiated by you unilaterally, and how much was in response to withdrawal by your WW? Early after dday I was blamed for a lot of bad behavior in the M, but in retrospect, much of that was a direct result of FWW’s shutting me out, ignoring my needs, blaming me for her issues, etc. Sure I often left her alone an enjoyed when she was gone, but that was self-preservation, not spitefulness.

For the last 3 months, I've seen her do thinkgs, I've never thought her capable of.

Who she is now is a part of who she has always been. Our perceptions shift, different facets of the personality come to the fore. This is why there is no “changing back” to the person you perceived before. This has always been a part of who she is. There is the possibility of change, learning new coping behaviors, recognizing harmful personality traits and behaviors and replacing them with healthier ones. It is difficult and hard to do, she has to want to do it, and the her you are seeing now will always be there inside of her.

Or, you can come back to the man that loves you more than anyone…

This is worth exploring. Why do you still feel this? She cheated on you, she lied, she continued contact through FB with pictures and memories of OM, she still is angry she is not allowed to talk wit OM.

How much longer til she comes out of the fog?

I really think that fog is an over-used term. It excuses behavior that is really inexcusable. She is not in a fog over OM. She is selfish and does not want to give up the fantasy of his attraction. She does not want to own what she did and who she demonstrated she was. She wants to continue to pretend you drover her to her A, that it was a special relationship with OM. That if not a lover, he was a fond friend. She likes seeing you constantly following up on her, pursuing her, expressing your love for her.

--Ats

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 8:08 AM, May 14th (Tuesday)]


LTA BS 53
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4074 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
la433
Member
Member # 38835
Default  Posted: 10:31 AM, May 14th (Tuesday)

@Calkid

Can you imagine how much pain you'd endure had you not found SI?

Think about it.


"Arise and be all that you dreamed." ~Flyleaf

Posts: 136 | Registered: Mar 2013
doesitgetbetter
Member
Member # 18429
Default  Posted: 11:51 AM, May 14th (Tuesday)

Cal, you keep asking why she's doing this or that or the other thing. Listen, everything she's doing, EVERYTHING she's done, are all things that you've been told in this thread that she has done or will do or whatever. When she called Mr. D before she sent him those texts saying they can't be together anymore, you were warned that she would contact him either before or after she sent them. And she did! She's no different than any other WS on this forum, no different at all. She doesn't fart rainbows and pee sunshine just because she's been an amazing wife for 23 years... right now, she's a lying, cheating, selfish, foolish WS, just like the rest of the WS's are at this same point in infidelity.

I suggest that you reread this entire thread from start to finish, see where you've been told things that would/will/have/had happened and where they did in fact end up happening, and start taking the advice given. Who knows better how to get to the corner market then someone who's been there everyday for the past several weeks/months/years? We've all been to this market, we're trying to give you good directions, and you're just certain you know a shortcut. Sadly, there ARE no shortcuts to the market.


DDay - Dec '07
Me - BS
Him - FWS
Us - Committed
May 18, 2010 - I forgave him fully!
"Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction." Isaiah 48:10

Posts: 3859 | Registered: Feb 2008
reallyscrewedup7
Member
Member # 30825
Default  Posted: 1:40 PM, May 14th (Tuesday)

Cal

Look, we all have been there. We have all wanted to believe our WWs were different. They really were immediately remorseful. We were all going to win Powerball too.

No one can convince you what to do. But right now, and I know you sense this, you are making some pretty bad decisions regarding your wife.

There are some things you can do to help yourself while you decide on the best course of action for you.

First, talking to a lawyer to know what a divorce entails and following their advice about money and documenting your contribution to child care is NEVER a bad thing. Knowledge=power and brother you need some power.

Second, detach. You think you were an asshole and that is why she sucked some losers dick. NO. She sucked some losers dick because SHE WANTED TO. You did not make her do anything. All your recent "reattachment" to her just makes her think you are weak, she is in the drivers seat and can do with you what she wants. Well, SHE IS RIGHT. You need to extricate yourself from the line of fire and rationally assess the situation. YOU CANNOT DO THAT KISSING HER BEHIND.

Just so you know, while I am not a platitudes sort of guy, there are some things that are virtual universal truths. One of those truths is you cannot "NICE" a cheating wife back to you.

Now, once you have put yourself in a state of detachment from her drama, you will soon figure out that sharing her totally sucks.

You will know what to do then.

But in the meantime, YOUR failure to protect yourself (lawyer, knowledge, finances, detachment) is only hurting you. Not her.

Good luck and strength to you to figure out that you need to heal from this and that she is not going to help you do that.


Infidelity sucks shit

Posts: 896 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Finding my way
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 3:24 PM, May 14th (Tuesday)

I know you guys are getting frustrated with me. I've never been through anything like this before. I'm like a blind man feeling his way through the dark. You hear of stuff I've done and think, "Told ya that would happen" and so on. I am trying to do the 180. I let her call me. I don't call her. If I text her, its only to with business or the kids. My sis-in-law says I need to do a 90, not a 180. Because if I'm too cold or off limits, she'll just throw her hands up and say, well, see? I doesn't care about me anyway and wont' forgive me."
I stupidly told her about the 16 year old boy asking me if she cheated and that I told him the truth. That he was listening at my bedroom door while I was talking about it. Man, she went off the deep end. "I can't believe you told him the truth! Now he's gonna think I'm a slut!" I reassured her that he doesn't and that he's okay but she was not having any of it. Told SNL about this and she called her and basically told her, "You cant' be mad at Calkid. He didn't ask the boy to snoop around and find out what was going on. The boy heard him talking and knew, then you want him to lie to the boy and damage his relationship with him for you after what you've done? If you want to be mad at someone about the boy finding out, go look in the mirror." Anyway, she defused the situation, thank God. I think she is de-fogging guys. I've been watching her phone records and emails and haven't seen anything funny. I know she's having some issues letting go but she knows the right thing to do and I know she'll do it. Especially, once she weighs the options. We'll be in marriage counseling a while and work out our issues. I know you all think I'm a glutton for punishment and she's not worthy of it but I can't help but love her. She hasn't been acting very loveable lately, but I can't help my heart. Despite the love I have for her, I'm not going to be a fool. I'm taking control of this situation and my life and if she wants to be a part of it, then fine. If not, that sucks but that'll be her choice.

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
I think I can
Member
Member # 17756
Default  Posted: 6:56 PM, May 14th (Tuesday)

Sweetie she's gonna blame you no matter WHAT you do. No matter how you twist yourself around. Until she starts taking responsibility --actions not words--you need to only act in your and your children's best interest.


I'm not the winner, I'm the prize.

Posts: 8788 | Registered: Jan 2008
la433
Member
Member # 38835
Default  Posted: 6:08 AM, May 15th (Wednesday)

Calkid,

All that I have done the past 15 months, I have done for the benefit of my kids. I have avoided arguments and conflict for their benefit. But you know what? My xWW thinks that this is all about her. She even brags how good of a relationship we have post-D because of how "we talk". The key is I don't say much of anything. I don't talk of my feelings or plans at all to her anymore. Every time that I have, it has backfired. EVERY.TIME.

I really don't think she is capable of "seeing" how hurt I am. Neither is your WW capable. You need to come to a place where you see that is no longer that person you knew for 23 years. Its hard. WE KNOW. Be patient with yourself.

As far as your emotions, we both should be angry at them. I should be yelling at her. That's what my emotions say to do. But I go for a walk and realize that it wouldn't do any good. If we do that, they win.

The only good that will ever come is when she realizes the pain she has caused. You and I both need to understand that they may never "see" that.

Also, read the NC again and again. I have to or else my old habits creep back in. It's a process. It's not that you go in for surgery and come out and you're cured. No, you have to keep working, keep retooling, keep refocusing efforts. It's daily. It's mentally exhausting.

Also, be friendly, but don't be her friend. My wife thinks we're friends because I'm not agressive or confrontational or emotional with her. Right now that's all I can handle. I am trying to practice NC/180, but it is difficult. No one on here that is suggesting it is REALLY frustrated with you about your seemingly inability to go NC/180. You've spent a long time together and it is incredibly hard.

That being said...

Go NC/180
Just do it!

The truth is I'm really not even sure if I even give a flying fuck anymore for her. The way she has ripped my heart of out my chest without any apparent remorse, AND by blaming me, says all I need to know.

I hope you realize that your WW is ripping your heart out of your chest as we speak. It's up to you to protect yourself.

By the way, I'm technically alive, but living? That's another story. I probably should be medicated too, but
I did not find SI until recently. You should count yourself lucky--very lucky.

You have an opportunity with all the advice...

Just sayin'....

[This message edited by la433 at 6:12 AM, May 15th (Wednesday)]


"Arise and be all that you dreamed." ~Flyleaf

Posts: 136 | Registered: Mar 2013
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 7:21 AM, May 15th (Wednesday)

Well, I'm just not sure how NC will bring us back together. Some of the things in the 180 make sense but NC seems like it will drive us further apart. Seems like she'll think I don't care and make her give up.
So, basically how things ended yesterday, is she blames me for our son knowing. I tried to tell her over and over again, I didn't know that the boy was listening at the door. She didn't have to look him in the face not knowing exactly what he heard. He told me some of what he heard and there was enough there for any intellegent (which our son is very) young man to put together that his mom cheated. Does anyone think I liked tellling him yes his mom cheated on me? Why would anyone that's trying to R with his wife want his son to know that? I told her that this is one of the consequces of her selfish actions and that had she considered this before she did them, this would not have happened. The sitter told him to call his mom when she picked him up from school and so he called her. I guess they had a chat about it. She said she was sorry and that she was being stupid and stuff. He told her he forgives her and that he knows she's human and made a mistake and won't judge her. Then I talked to him that evening. She's making a bigger deal outta this than he is. He knows how private a family matter this is and is not going to say anything to the other kids or his friends. It doesn't seem to really even bother him because we've told him that mom is sorry and we still love each other and are staying together. I mean, I know its a big deal but my wife is saying she's devastaed that he knows, absoutley devasted and I know, she blames me for it. I can't get through to her that it was an accident that he found out. She probably won't even talk to me for a good few days. What a mess. This whole thing totally sucks. :-(

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 8:35 AM, May 15th (Wednesday)

I can't get through to her that it was an accident that he found out.

Stop trying, it is a logical consequence of her actions.

Ultimately this can be an important lesson for your DS. He will see that a good man fights for his M and to do the right thing for his family, even in the face of betrayl and adversity. You do not just give up and play the victim card, but you try to live your vows and what is best for your family and you.

One of the early signs FWW was starting to own her shit was when she stopped blasting me in anger when I told someone or otherwise may have indicated she had an A. Instead she began to respond that she was embarrassed to have people know, but that she understood I would do what I had to do to come to grips.

I have used the 180, so have many others on SI. I know of no instance where it drove a WS away. Sure, it may have been used as an excuse by the WS, but in general it removes the drama for the BS and often the WS begins to feel unsure of things as the BS withdraws instead of chasing. Your WW withdrew from you to the point of sexing up an OM and did not drive you away. what does it say about her if you withdrawing to calm and heal your life some drives her away?

... and I know, she blames me for it.

This is the key. There is no working with her, MC success, or reasoning with her so long as she blames you. You will know it is time to drop the 180 when she stops blaming you and owns her balme. BTW, this took my FWW over 6 months.

As for all the advice, no one should be frustrated or upset with you. We all give our unique perspective with the advantage of 20/20 hindsight in our own lives. Few (none?) of us did text book perfect post dday. You have to do what works and fits for you. We just want to "give you permission" to take care of yourself and kids while your WW decides which path she is going to take.

--Ats

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 8:58 AM, May 15th (Wednesday)]


LTA BS 53
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4074 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 8:52 AM, May 15th (Wednesday)

((((Cali)))))

Well I find it interesting her reaction to knowing her son knows about her actions, and her very first reaction is OMG, I didn't want him to know, This is all about me, blah blah blah.
When in reality someone who was defogged, and truly remorseful or even a decent Mom's first reaction would be OH NO. How is he, is he upset, where is he I need to talk to him. This is not a good thing, and WE need to work together to help and any of the other kids understand that this was My doing, but I am trying to fix myself.

NOT THIS It's your fault, he knows, I'm devastated he knows. NOT I'm devastated by the pain Ihave caused everyone.

When you are in the thick of things it is difficult to understand the difference, I know. She seems thick in the fog, and I would bet my hat that she has a secret cell phone and is still in contact with him. She's stuggling because she knows she has not come clean, and IS NOT doing the hard work of R.

I also want to give you my take on the 180. It is designed to help you. The purpose is not to make her run to you, or run away from you. It is to help you gain perspective on what you are going through, and allow you to decide what you are willing to tolerate.

One person cannot make another person do anything they don't want to do. Even our spouses. The best that you can do is state what your expectations are, and consequences if they are not met, or attempted to be met. Once you can do this, you can draw your proverbial line in the sand, and not tolerate whatever BS she is spewing. You aren't losing her or making her go chasing the OM. You are simply asking for the things you deserve to have a good solid marriage.

((((and strength))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 7785 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
mysticpenguin
Member
Member # 38839
Default  Posted: 11:03 AM, May 15th (Wednesday)

Do you have a dog, calikid? I ask because much like we train dogs to respect us, we must teach those we love to respect us.

By giving her attention right now, you are reinforcing that her behavior is okay. Think about training a dog. If the dog is doing something wrong, i.e. begging? You calmly but firmly correct it, and then you IGNORE IT because you are not reinforcing its bad behavior by giving it attention.

All humans (much like all animals) yearn for attention. It's one of our most basic needs. You are meeting her need for attention even in the face of her stomping all over you.

Furthermore, going NC will not "make her give up." Absence makes the heart grow fonder, remember? Step out of her life for a time. Let her see and feel the absence of EVERYTHING you do for her, all the love you give her. If she still pursues attention and love elsewhere, let her go; she would have gone anyway. If she calls you and shows that she finally knows what she was throwing away, AND you're still interested in continuing this relationship, GREAT. Pass "Go" and collect your $200.

YOU have nothing to lose by going NC. If she walks -- it's because she was always going to. But know that she will finally be faced with the reality of what her life will be like if she loses you, and that is likely the only thing that will bring her to a place of remorse -- IF she is even capable of feeling it.


Betrayed

Posts: 306 | Registered: Mar 2013
Lucky
Member
Member # 6864
Default  Posted: 11:06 AM, May 15th (Wednesday)

From page 6:
.
YOU;
.About 1/2 hour I got off the phone with Mr. D, she said she sent the non-contact letter in a text. I have told her to save the texts. She said she texted him and asked if he could talk to which he responded, "Nope", She asked why and he responded, "I'm not allowed to talk to you at all anymore." She then texted, "Calkid knows!" He said, "Yep" She said, "It's over, goodbye forever."

.

Me:
Textbook breakup. She refused to send a no contact text/letter ... but after you call him within a half-hour she suddenly sends him a text ending it? PUHHHLEEEZE.. time to start looking for a secret phone, new hidden e-mails, fake facebook accounts - the affair is underground.


.Sunday May 12

So, last night, I checked our computers browsing history. I saw that someone had gone to Mr.D's Facebook page and was looking at pics. Now, Mr.D has blocked my wife and I so through our profiles, we can't even see bis page. So, what did my wife do? She created a new fb account using my 6 year old son's name. This account has no friends, no messages, nothing. It appears, all she was doing was looking at pics. Right before her trip down south though?

.
Annnd... sadly did you find a fake FB? Yes you did.

I’d bet the bank she’ll find a way to make contact, possibly with a pay-as-you-go phone. It’s virtually untraceable. Another reason Mrs D needs to be informed.

.

But you are not emotionally attached to her as I am. You don't know her as I do.

.
From the beginning we’ve said ‘her affair isn’t special, nor is your relationship with her’, we ALL (most) had that relationship with our WS’s

Well, I'm just not sure how NC will bring us back together. Some of the things in the 180 make sense but NC seems like it will drive us further apart. Seems like she'll think I don't care and make her give up.

.
The 180 is not to be confused with NC. NC is what you are asking her to do with Mr D. You mentioned Mr D is going through a “nasty divorce”, are you absolutely certain of that? Why haven’t you told Mrs D about the affair? She deserves to know exactly what is happening with her marriage & health, further more – don’t kid yourself into believing your wife’s story about his ‘divorce’, odds are… probably isn’t happening.

The 180 saved many marriages here on SI including mine!! It isn’t there just for the hell of it for somewhat casual reading. It’s there because it’s tried and true & it works. You don’t have to do each and everything listed, pick and chose what will and won’t work for you.


.

she blames me for our son knowing.

She blames you for pretty much everything anyways…

.

I tried to tell her over and over again,….. She said she was sorry and that she was being stupid and stuff. He told her he forgives her and that he knows she's human and made a mistake and won't judge her. Then I talked to him that evening. She's making a bigger deal outta this than he is. He knows how private a family matter this is and is not going to say anything to the other kids or his friends. It doesn't seem to really even bother him because we've told him that mom is sorry and we still love each other and are staying together.

My son was 16 when he had his d-day for Mr Lucky’s EA. It bothers them more than you think and I strongly urge you to get him into counseling so he can talk to someone other than his parents. You are pushing that the marriage will survive & what if it doesn’t? And it may not. Now you’ve lied to him and if you think your wife is taking any kind of responsibility for her affair – guess again. She is most likely laying this squarely in your lap. Young boys are bothered more about their mother having a sexual relationship with someone other than their father, rather than mom having an emotional affair. It took about two years before our son got furious & it wasn’t with his dad it was with me!


.

I mean, I know its a big deal but my wife is saying she's devastaed that he knows, absoutley devasted and I know, she blames me for it. I can't get through to her that it was an accident that he found out. She probably won't even talk to me for a good few days. What a mess. This whole thing totally sucks.

A few pages back someone suggested you just STOP. Take a break from trying to heal her – because YOU CAN NOT HEAL HER. You keep crossing and re-crossing your lines in the sand with her, over and over, and over and over… She is not showing any kind of remorse, she isn’t doing the work to recover her marriage and family. She doesn’t have to. You keep doing it for her.

She’s busy blame shifting and you are carpet sweeping. Now that your son knows she has a whole new reason to be mad at you, to point the finger and blame you for something else.

You are overwhelmed. I get that. We ALL do. But do remember we have ALL been in your shoes to some degree or another. Earlier it was suggested that maybe you take the time to re-read the thread from your first post until today. Really take a good close look at it.

Quit calling and texting her unless it’s absolutely necessary, borderline emergency, for kids and finances ONLY. QUIT letting her blame you for your son finding out. STOP plea bargaining about your kids, marriage, her ending her affair with Mr D…. Didn’t you mention also that another child knew too? Do try and get your son into IC ASAP – he needs a professional to talk to. Certainly not his parents, you two are the last people who should be advising him.

[This message edited by Lucky at 11:13 AM, May 15th (Wednesday)]


♥ WINE - the other fruit juice! ♥


Posts: 36162 | Registered: Apr 2005
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 11:07 AM, May 15th (Wednesday)

I believe somewhere in this very long thread,you said the OM is married and going through a divorce. How do you know this? Because your wife told you? But..she's a liar and cant be trusted.

Call his wife. Don't tell your WW that you're going to call her,just do it. Chances are,the divorce will be news to her. And if.in fact,they are divorcing,I wonder if it's because she found out about this affair awhile ago.


BS(me)41
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,9
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Happily Reconciled.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7104 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 12:09 PM, May 15th (Wednesday)

calkid,

SI member wert has a post in Reconciliation on his perspective at 1.5 years out from dday that you may find enlightening. Not just his posting, but the feedback from both BS and former WS.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=496045


LTA BS 53
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4074 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Brokenheart777
Member
Member # 38561
Default  Posted: 9:36 PM, May 15th (Wednesday)

I don't know if this has been touched on in the last couple of pages but, Calkid, your worry that 180 will "push her away" should be whole-heartedly superseded by the fear that trying to "nice" or "force change" her back in to a relationship with you will result in D-days #4, 5, 6, 7 and so on down the road.

I assure you, as does everyone else, that once you go 180, you will notice that you will find strength in YOURSELF and lose the burden of your WWs bullshit. This isn't cutting them out of your life, it's protecting yourself from the same heartache and disrespect that you've been receiving for 10 plus pages.


ME - A new person
HER - A waining memory
DDay - 2/22/2013
2-3 month EA/PA
Together for 6 years, ready to start my life . . .

"I can fill the flask up, but can't get past us
I'm in the storm, staying strong, but can't get back


Posts: 177 | Registered: Feb 2013
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 6:54 AM, May 16th (Thursday)

So, last night, I checked that fake FB account and it said that the password was changed 3 days agao. Its linked to a gmail account. So, I tiied to check the gmail account and she changed the password on that too. So, she's on eastern time. And it was 10:00 p.m. here. So I call her and call her and she won't wake up and answer the phone. Our son was home from the hospital staying with her at the hosptial so I called his cell phone and he dind't answer. So, he calls me back. "What's up?" "I need to talk to your mom. Go wake her up" So, he goes and waked her up. "Why did you change the password on the gmail and that fake FB account." "Are you serious? Good night Calkid." "So then she starts texting me. "Are you gonna bring this house down with your craziness?" "No" "How are we ever suppsed to move forward? Don't contact me tomrorow. Just let me be." "Fine" I've come to the realization that I can't control her and until she stops doing stuff like this, I am doing the 180. I won't contact her today. Nor, tomrorow, nor the next day. If I text her, it will be only about necesssary business related things or the kids. Period. I'm gonna work on just being me from here on. Especially the next week and a half until she gets home. My heart is so shattered that yes, I'm acting cazy. I gotta stop. I gotta pull it together. I gotta be strong. Its hard because of the 20 years of my heart being so close to hers, such a great marriage, such a great friendship, I haven't had to work on myself. I haven't had to be by myself and be strong and independent. Everything has been about us. This family. Never me.

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
5yrsout
Member
Member # 32109
Default  Posted: 7:06 AM, May 16th (Thursday)

(((Calkid)))

Please. Be kind to yourself.

Just to comment on the changed passwords - THERE IS NO GOOD REASON FOR THIS.

Meaning, she is either trying to contact the OM or any number of other negative things. Her reaction is to make you feel guilty or minimize as if it doesn't matter. IT DOES.

Transparency (if one of your boundaries, which I strongly urge you to demand) is 100% necessary to healing. DO NOT LET HER JUST IGNORE THIS.

DEMAND the passwords and get on there and retrieve all deleted sent/recvd msgs.

I am so sorry she continues to put you through more crap. And, this is MORE (additional) crap.

If you can't maintain the 180 - may I suggest the "nuclear" option. We know you want your marriage to survive. But, as has been said over and over again here at SI - sometimes you have to be prepared to give up your M to see results.

Tell her you are done. Tell her this last bit of disrespect (not only changing the passwords but then MINIMIZING and attempting to RUGSWEEP the issue) is the last straw. Tell her you are seeing an attorney and then GO.

Tell her you will be sending her separation papers and she can just stay where she is or go wherever her little f*cked up heart tells her to go.

BE STRONG. YOU DO NOT DESERVE ONE SHRED OF THIS BULLSH*T.
And, certainly do not deserve additional pain on top of everything she's already served you.

FTB.

Really. FIND YOUR ANGER.
FIND YOUR RAGE and channel it to knock the f*cking fog off her. DO NOT CODDLE HER ANYMORE.

If she doesn't snap out of it, you will know what you have to do.

If she is still conflicted (chasing the OM) or just too far gone in her demonizing of your role in this, you haven't lost anything that wasn't already done.

I am so sorry. (((Calkid)))!!


Now 7 Yrs Out - my prince is a frog
DD 5/15/2006

Posts: 774 | Registered: May 2011
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 7:20 AM, May 16th (Thursday)

'morning calkid,

While you are working on your 180 for the next 10 days, read the healing library. read the thread started by wert that I posted a few messages back, read the BS primer thread, read Not Just Friends by Glass and Sexual Detours by Hines.

Make appointments with a couple of attorneys to find out what D will entail and will be like.

I wondered the same as confused, do you know for a fact that OM is divorcing or is that what OM and or WW said? If you do not know for fact, then I would notify OM BS.

She is gone. A remorseful WW, a W who loves you does not hide email and facebook passwords. A mentally healthy individual does not blameshift as she is doing to you.

ETA: What JanaGreen posted next is spot on.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 7:49 AM, May 16th (Thursday)]


LTA BS 53
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4074 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
JanaGreen
Member
Member # 29341
Default  Posted: 7:44 AM, May 16th (Thursday)

((calkid))

I just wanted to point something out - the 180 is a tool to help YOU with your healing and YOUR sanity. The purpose is to help you detach so you don't go insane. In some cases when a WS sees his/her BS detaching and moving on/being healthy without him/her, it can knock WS off the fence. HOWEVER if you use it as a manipulative tool to try to save your marriage, that defeats the purpose. Because you're doing 180 "things" and then looking to see what kind of effect it's having on your WS, trying to make her get it. And thus not detaching. You really have to get to a point where you genuinely don't give a damn what they are doing. It's HARD. But it'll keep you from losing your mind.

((HUGS))

This is hell, I know. I'm so sorry.


We're both in our 30s. One awesome 4-year-old daughter.

Posts: 6508 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Somewhere in the South
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 7:47 AM, May 16th (Thursday)

((((Cali))))

That sucks. You need to get yourself deeply entrenched with the 180. You need to clamly tell her what your expectations are of R. Transparency, NO lies, No Contact, NO omissions of truth. Whatever else you need to feel like R is moving forward. Let her know that you have every right to check on her, and if she can't handle it too bad. She either allows it, or she goes. I think almost everyone of us BS's out there will tell you the dislike, anger, frustration with us following up, snooping, checking up on comes from a place of dishonesty.

Those with nothing to hide, Hide NOTHING.

We have all been in the same or similar place. I don't think there are many people that smoothly R without any setbacks. However allowing her to have the upper hand and rugsweep, and minimize this is not going to create a successful R.

(((((and strength))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 7785 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
cliffside
Member
Member # 38803
Default  Posted: 7:52 AM, May 16th (Thursday)

I am fortunate (ironic word, huh!) to have a WS who snapped out of the fog within a couple of days of D-Day. I did threaten to leave. In fact, we're only three months out and I still say time will only tell if we'll stay married because there is so much he needs to do to get to the bottom of why he did this, understand why, and learn the coping mechanisms to make sure it never happens again. When I look back, he changed at some point. He became really cocky and treated me like shit. So affair aside, in order for our marriage to work we need to figure out why he was such an angry ass and why I put up with it.

But this is what my WS is doing and if he wasn't I'd kick him out (and I have two little ones, one with special needs).

1) Total transparency - I have all passwords and an app that lets me see his phone (texts, calls, gps, etc) on my pc.
2) IC - the shit is hitting the fan here. Major stuff is coming out.
3) MC
4) total, brutal honesty about the affair. We spent one night in particular walking through it and I asked every question I had and he answered every one. I know he was honest because it wasn't pretty.
5) he says he's sorry every day.
6) I have never seen him cry so much in my life.
7) After NC she contacted him and he called me immediately to tell me he was coming home from work and figure out together how to handle it.

I can go on, but does this sound anything like your wife? Not from what I have read.

You have the gift of time alone right now. Please see an attorney and learn about your options. Please, please, please, see an IC. And definitely contact the OM BS. Your wife has no remorse for what she's done. Nothing will change until she wakes up and sees what she's done for what it really is. It doesn't matter if Mr. D is around or not, she'll just find someone else. After all, she did go looking for this.


Me: BS 39
Him: WH 41
2 Kids
D-Day: 2/3/13
Broke NC 3/14
Very skeptically in R for now...

Posts: 261 | Registered: Mar 2013
lordhasaplan?
Member
Member # 30079
Default  Posted: 8:03 AM, May 16th (Thursday)

((Calikid)),
Wow, I have not been on boards awhile but just read through large sections of this situation. I have a few takes that you have heard already and a few that might help.
1. This is not your doing! Don’t allow her to paste any of her decisions on you. The behavior and decisions she makes are speaking volumes. She doesn’t respect you or your marriage as she should and the only way to protect yourself and possibly have her get her head out of her ass is to close off as much as possible protect yourself, focus on you and your son and see if her actions change.
2. DETACH (http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=459284&HL=30079) Ill bump it. YOU NEED TO FOCUS ON YOU! If after you move to a place where you can gather your self, process and see a clear path the constant drama and trying to sort this out is irrelevant.
3. TELL OM’s BS!!! She deserved to know , and until then are you ever sure the relationship has been terminated. The recent change of passwords leads me to believe NO! maybe underground, n hold awhile, etc….
4. A written NC letter is necessary, one you see written approve of and see mailed. Not a possible text to end this which you can’t truly verify.
5. STOP HOLDING ON THE OUTCOME. This really takes a long while to sink in, but you have no control over her or the outcome. The only control you have is over your actions and not ENABLING HER and her affair. Please see this link. http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=408443&HL=30079. Ill bump it as well. Detach, Focus on you and your needs, Lock into a mindset where you don’t care about what she says only what she does, actions will demonstrate a desire to get back into the marriage. Actions like hiding passwords, changing passwords, hiding things. All point to she is still in the affair at least mentally.
6. NO one deserves this shit. But don’t carry burdens that aren’t yours to carry. There are many reasons people cheat, none of them involve you. There are other functional ways to deal with any relationship issues before slitting the throat of a marriage through infidelity.
Lastly, You can survive infidelity, with or without your marriage. But first you need to let go of this dead one. When she decided to cheat she already ended your last marriage. Show no loyalty to it. YOU control this situation if you want to draw lines and boundaries with how your going to be treated. Please care for yourself.
LHAP?


D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10)

Posts: 1855 | Registered: Nov 2010
heforgotme
Member
Member # 38391
Default  Posted: 8:23 AM, May 16th (Thursday)

My heart is so shattered that yes, I'm acting cazy.

One of the books I read post D-Day had a section entitled, "Should you reconcile?". They gave a list of indicators and one of them was the amount of empathy the WS shows when the BS acts "crazy" in response to all of this.

You have had so much to process since the beginning of this. She has lied and lied and blamed and blamed. And even now does not seem to hold herself responsible for your pain.

Stick to the 180. You are doing the right thing.


D-Day 11/15/12
5 month PA
Married 20 years, 3 kids
All good is hard. All evil is easy. Dying, losing, cheating, and mediocrity is easy. Stay away from easy.
- Scott Alexander
It was the day I thought I'd never get through - Daughtry

Posts: 1064 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: FL
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 5:35 PM, May 16th (Thursday)

I could just puke. I should just listen to you guys. I'm so stupid. My boss today, was encouraging me to fly down south and see her this weekend. So, I took his advice thinking, it would, be romantic and break up the monotony since shes not supposed to be back until next Friday. So, I book the tickets, line things up for my parents to watch the kids, line up the rental car etc. Then I call her and say guess what baby, I'm coming tomorrow for the weekend and I'll get to see you, the grand baby (which I've hardly seen since he was born) and my oldest son on Sunday when he and his wife come back from the hospital. Then she's like, "I thought we were taking a break to let things cool down? You never give me a chance to do anything for you. I was planning on coming back on Tuesday and surprising you. You are always complaining about me not reciprocating your love but you always beat me to the punch." I tried to say, "why didn't you keep it secret still? I would have been blown away! And, at least I get to see the grand baby and son." I still feel like and idiot. Here she ties to do something sweet and I ruin it for her. I could just die!

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
Twitchy
Member
Member # 25393
Default  Posted: 5:53 PM, May 16th (Thursday)

That's what she said when she found out about your plan.

What make you think that's what she was actually planning? Could be a tactic to maintain the power in this exchange.



BH(me)-49, FWW-43,
D-Day #1 - Oct 2007 - On-Line EA leading to a failed rendez-vous
D-Day #2 - Nov 2008 - In person EA caught early.

Away you will go, sailing in a race among the ruins.
If you plan to face tomorrow, do it soon. Gordon Lightfoot


Posts: 607 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Ontario - Canada
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 6:10 PM, May 16th (Thursday)

Dude she twisted it around on you she probably had something else set up for the weekend and you foiled her plans. Yet again she was able to manipulate you, make you feel like you were wrong or did something bad. I'm sorry but this may sound harsh. Why do you believe her she has proven that she is a lying liar that lies, and then lies about those lies.

You did nothing wrong feel proud about your actions.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 7785 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
jackson
Member
Member # 18819
Default  Posted: 10:51 PM, May 16th (Thursday)

You should fly down anway and find out what she is up to. Highly suspect.

Posts: 790 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: Midwest
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 11:07 PM, May 16th (Thursday)

should be pretty easy to check that. credit card would show the reservations made wouldn't it?


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2534 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
mike7
Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 11:13 PM, May 16th (Thursday)

indeed 5454rl. of course, if there are no reservations, she could just say she hadn't made them yet.

sorry to sound cynical Calkid, but it seems like she is continuing to manipulate you. Why did she change the passwords? For heavens sake, don't pull her on your lap and talk to her like a little girl again. She knows what she's doing. And if we are all wrong, at the very least she is minimizing. still no excuse for changing the passwords, (on the fake FB account).


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 507 | Registered: Mar 2013
kannan
Member
Member # 36057
Default  Posted: 7:27 AM, May 17th (Friday)

There is another thread running on another forum about the same

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/74385-real-interesting-thread.html


Posts: 139 | Registered: Jul 2012
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 10:40 AM, May 17th (Friday)

^^

[This message edited by confused615 at 11:26 AM, May 17th (Friday)]


BS(me)41
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,9
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Happily Reconciled.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7104 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
sadtoo
Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 10:47 AM, May 17th (Friday)

Then I call her and say guess what baby, I'm coming tomorrow for the weekend and I'll get to see you, the grand baby (which I've hardly seen).

^^^ THIS was a mistake. You should have just went without the phone call.

Calkid,
You want your wife to be honest, faithful and committed so bad that you are failing to see what's right before your eyes.

She is creating secret Facebook accounts, changing passwords on her email accounts, and clearly still hung up on the AP.

You cannot love her out of this. That. Simply. Doesn't. Work.

You must separate her words from her actions. She is saying all the things you want to hear. And because you want this so bad, you remain hooked. But her actions clearly say something entirely different. And because you remain hooked by her words, you are ignoring her actions.

Please. Study the 180. Protect yourself. Visit a lawyer to find out your rights before this gets much worse.


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7991 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
toomanyregrets
Member
Member # 37740
Default  Posted: 11:31 AM, May 17th (Friday)

Hard as it will be, you've got to stop trying to win her back. You can't without giving up yourself. The only way she'll come back is if she realizes she'll loose everything. If she doesn't care then you can't win.
You have to start thing of you before her.


BH - 64
fWW - 59

"Affairs are not mistakes, they are a series of deliberate choices." - CrappyLife


Posts: 443 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Upstate NY
Drew_n_Va
Member
Member # 31043
Default  Posted: 11:39 AM, May 17th (Friday)

I can only speak to my experience but I kicked my wife out of the house after 7 days and severed everything financially. 7 days later she texted me and said she wanted a divorce. I unloaded on her. I was very ugly. Less than 24 hours she called me sobbing and asked to come home. 28 months later we are almost reconciled.
You can't nice her back.


Me: BH 50
her: fWW 41
Married 19 years
3 Beautiful Kids (14,8,6)
D-Day: 1-26-11
Status: Reconciled
"From Happy to Separated to Divorcing to living together again in 16 Days."

Endeavor to Persevere


Posts: 424 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Va
doesitgetbetter
Member
Member # 18429
Default  Posted: 11:50 AM, May 17th (Friday)

Starting to wonder if maybe she had plans of her own and was doing something shady while she's with your son and she doesn't want you there to ruin it for her. You (mistakenly) tell her you're coming, she throws a fit, says she was going to show up on Tuesday (but wasn't she supposed to be out of town to help a relative recover from surgery? suddenly that's not important). So she now throws this fit, I'm imagining it was to get you to stay home and "wait" for her to show up on Tuesday. Tuesday comes, she's a no show, and she would say "it's because you ruined it, so I didn't want to do it now because it would just be awkward". Thus giving her all that spare free time away from Calkid to change any passwords she wants, keep in contact with OM all she wants, and maybe spend the weekend with HIM since he might be "surprising" her himself.

Ok, I lied... I didn't JUST start thinking this.

Cal, dude, you have REALLY got to stop tipping your hand to her. She's playing you like a fiddle, and you keep falling right in tune with it.


DDay - Dec '07
Me - BS
Him - FWS
Us - Committed
May 18, 2010 - I forgave him fully!
"Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction." Isaiah 48:10

Posts: 3859 | Registered: Feb 2008
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 12:20 PM, May 17th (Friday)

You know, just in your last two posts, it pretty well confirms that her A is still going on, and the closer you get to the truth, the more it pisses her off.

Why did you change the password on the gmail and that fake FB account." "Are you serious? Good night Calkid." "So then she starts texting me. "Are you gonna bring this house down with your craziness?" "No" "How are we ever suppsed to move forward? Don't contact me tomrorow. Just let me be."

"I thought we were taking a break to let things cool down? You never give me a chance to do anything for you. I was planning on coming back on Tuesday and surprising you. You are always complaining about me not reciprocating your love but you always beat me to the punch." I tried to say, "why didn't you keep it secret still? I would have been blown away! And, at least I get to see the grand baby and son."

Tuesday? Doubt it. 180 brother. Stop giving her the power. She continues to lis and conceal. She doesn't get it yet.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2534 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
LonelyHusband
Member
Member # 34145
Default  Posted: 12:34 PM, May 17th (Friday)

OK, so your wife is actively involved in an affair. Deep down, you know this. She freaked out about the weekend because she was with someone, or planning to be with them. As gently as I can, you need to wake up and see what's in front of you.

so your wife is currently involved with another man. The question is - what are you going to do about it. Are you going to let her walk all over you and continue to have sex with another man until she gets bored and finds someone else to have an affair with, knowing this is now your life.

Or are you going to stand up and say "enough". Pack her things, and have divorce papers waiting for her. When she arrived back give them to her. Give her the shock of her lifetime. Show yourself to be a strong man. Respect yourself, and she might just start to respect you too. Maybe she won't, in which case you will start to heal alone, but either way you win.

Your life. Your choice. We cannot convince you to do something you do not want to do. You cannot convince your wife to give up an exciting new sex partner for you. It won't work. Why should she? she is in complete control of you and can have the new partner and the man at home to look after home and the kids. You cannot love her out of it, you cannot respect her out of it. All you can do is rebuild your self respect and take control of your own life.

Your life, your choice. Which life do you want to lead?

[This message edited by LonelyHusband at 12:36 PM, May 17th (Friday)]


BS ( me) 41
fWS (OktoberMest) 35
D day #1 29/10/2011, D day #2 15/112011, D day #3 15/03/2012
Reconciling.
“It’s better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all”, is inadequate consolation when you vacuum up a child's hamster'

Posts: 1290 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: UK
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 7:17 AM, May 20th (Monday)

Calli, I hope you had a good weekend. I also hope you are doing well.


(((((and strength))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 7785 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
5yrsout
Member
Member # 32109
Default  Posted: 1:43 PM, May 20th (Monday)

^^^^
Me, too.

Thinking about you ((((Calkid))).
Hope you are doing okay.


Now 7 Yrs Out - my prince is a frog
DD 5/15/2006

Posts: 774 | Registered: May 2011
Lucky
Member
Member # 6864
Default  Posted: 4:58 PM, May 20th (Monday)

Thinking of you calkid..


♥ WINE - the other fruit juice! ♥


Posts: 36162 | Registered: Apr 2005
la433
Member
Member # 38835
Default  Posted: 11:41 AM, May 21st (Tuesday)

Wow, CALKID, your WS is a master manipulator to make YOU think that you ruined her plans to come visit you. What bunk. I say call her bluff, go down there and see that Grandchild of yours and then fly back.

I agree with others. She was going to have a booty call. She's lying. Plain and simple. Very simply, do you see charges on the credit card? Probably not, I dare say.

I say change those reservations to some place YOU want to go, and go, or go visit the baby. That's never a bad thing.


"Arise and be all that you dreamed." ~Flyleaf

Posts: 136 | Registered: Mar 2013
Long Gone
Member
Member # 32587
Default  Posted: 3:52 PM, May 21st (Tuesday)

I have read this thread through and through....

I have gone to the garage and duct taped my head tightly so it does not explode off my shoulders.....

FUCK THIS & THAT!!! You are getting led around by your nose in the hopes she will NOT drop you forever....brother....NUKE STRIKE......expose, 180, draw papers, everything......then see where you stand.

This shit she is pulling has MY head exploding....


D-Day 11/26/10

Posts: 760 | Registered: Jun 2011
Brokenheart777
Member
Member # 38561
Default  Posted: 9:45 PM, May 21st (Tuesday)

Hope that you've found strength, Calkid. I hope that you've detached and worked on healing yourself. You've been living in "the Shit" for far too long with this woman and disconnecting from her fucked up selfishness is long overdue. Hoping the best for you man.


ME - A new person
HER - A waining memory
DDay - 2/22/2013
2-3 month EA/PA
Together for 6 years, ready to start my life . . .

"I can fill the flask up, but can't get past us
I'm in the storm, staying strong, but can't get back


Posts: 177 | Registered: Feb 2013
nofool4u
Member
Member # 38509
Default  Posted: 9:58 AM, May 22nd (Wednesday)

I get what you all are saying, I do. But you are not emotionally attached to her as I am. You don't know her as I do.

And we can tell you by reading what you say she is telling you that she is lying her ass off to you, softening you up. From what she is telling you, such as telling this OM "no pussy, its calkid's", she is one smooth operator.

You really believe that if she is away and you would find nothing out as far as specifics, that she wouldn't have sex with him?

She is playing you. And the whole mental mind game of telling a guy that the other guy's dick is too small? Ya, how many times have we heard that one. She is hoping you have a big ego and that telling you OM's dick is too small will help.

Do what you think you need to do. We are seeing the bulls**t she is feeding you because we have been there and done that.
But if you think we are wrong, fine. Just at least don't swallow her lies and bulls**t.

Stand up for yourself, show her you are not going to be some wimpering puppy dog, so lovesick that you will seek to believe anything she says out of desperation to keep her.
Don't do that to yourself.


Me - fBS

Posts: 210 | Registered: Feb 2013
mike7
Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 11:20 AM, May 22nd (Wednesday)

hope things are working out Calkid. i know its not fun to find out things about your spouse.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 507 | Registered: Mar 2013
la433
Member
Member # 38835
Default  Posted: 12:28 PM, May 22nd (Wednesday)

About you being emotionally attached to her.

Now don't get upset when I say this, but with an open heart I hope you hear what I'm saying.

Part of your problem is that you are too emotionally attached to this woman. You will not make it through this with your sanity in tact if you don't learn to emotionally detach yourself from her.

I know how you feel. I know that this won't be easy for you. But I also know that if you don't emotionally detach yourself from this woman, then you will likely find yourself in really bad shape, my friend.

We all know that she wasn't a bad person before, but buddy, without a doubt, she definitely is now. She used to be good. She isn't anymore. The reality she may have never been. You really need to understand just how far she has fallen.

And the whole mind game thing about you coming down there spoiling her surprise to you? Classic manipulation. If you study everything she has said since the beginning it has been lies that have been delicately crafted to frame YOU as being responsible. Even this last episode. Without help, there is no way for an individual to confront someone like this alone. They will always find a way to trap you as the guilty culprit, when it is in fact them that are guilty. Notice how every incident is about HER. Notice how every incident is accusatory in nature. Remember that "if you don't fill my heart" nonsense? She's setting you up, and in the same sense, accusing you of not doing it before.

I'm firmly convinced, as the others are, you need to separate--IMMEDIATELY. That will likely be the ONLY way you will save your marriage.

Notice how everything she has done she has justified in her mind. She will continue to do so until an external force pushes her out of that way of thinking. That may never happen. You must accept that the external force you applied has obviously not worked. So you must leave the situation or you will be dragged into that state of mind with her. Do you really want to have to justify everything she has done to save face, keep the marriage intact (?), and have someone to sleep with from time to time? How much is your sanity worth?

Hoping you find the strength to walk away long enough to heal.

From all that I have read, you are a strong person. I hope you don't let this crush you. I almost allowed it to happen to me. I'm thankful I found the strength. I thinking you will too.

Good luck.

*Edited to remove unnecessary tangents.*

[This message edited by la433 at 3:00 AM, May 23rd (Thursday)]


"Arise and be all that you dreamed." ~Flyleaf

Posts: 136 | Registered: Mar 2013
tfkeel
Member
Member # 19517
Default  Posted: 12:34 PM, May 22nd (Wednesday)

And the whole mental mind game of telling a guy that the other guy's dick is too small?

Too small? For what? If she doesn't let his dick in her twat, what difference does it make how big it is?


Posts: 320 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Pennsylvania
la433
Member
Member # 38835
Default  Posted: 12:34 PM, May 22nd (Wednesday)

Just wanted to add one more thing.

Remember when she left, you said how much better you started to feel?

What happened? Hmm.

Think about that.


"Arise and be all that you dreamed." ~Flyleaf

Posts: 136 | Registered: Mar 2013
la433
Member
Member # 38835
Default  Posted: 1:01 PM, May 22nd (Wednesday)

I know I'm getting carried away, but one more time:

12 May 2013 11:45PM

You said:

"She also added somewhere in this conversation, I still have feelings for him. I'm not in love with him but I do have feelings for him"

13 May 2013 8:57PM

You said

She said she doesnt have feelings for him. "That's not what you said last night?" Well I liked how he made me feel but I don't really have feelings for him.

So which is it? At the very beginning, it was a ONS and nothing else. Then she has feelings for him, then she doesn't.

One thing a person who has gone down this road is that they cannot seem tell the truth. She may have feelings for him. She may not. But one thing you know for sure, is that she is lying and is blaming you because you didn't "fill her heart". She is lying because she flip-flopped her story and well basically because she hasn't told you the truth from day one.

It doesn't matter if you call her out on these things or not, because the words of others don't mean much to a person involved in this amount of deceit, and even less if they are apt to accuse in retaliation. In essence, it doesn't matter to her at this point that she is lying to you. She's gone far beyond lying. She is willing to lie, and willing to accuse you.

And if you don't think she is accusing you, remember this?

"We'll, this is how I felt about his porn addiction."

She just did a double whammy there. She accused you of the same thing and is justifying her actions at the same time.

I'm just saying look at this from the view point of a liar and an accuser. There is no way you can confront her alone without her bringing you down. You are the company you keep, sort of.

My thoughts are with you...

Remember, you are stronger than this.

*Edited to remove tangents.*

[This message edited by la433 at 3:05 AM, May 23rd (Thursday)]


"Arise and be all that you dreamed." ~Flyleaf

Posts: 136 | Registered: Mar 2013
mike7
Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 1:21 PM, May 22nd (Wednesday)

do you think perhaps this guy is getting emotional overload? He hasn't posted for a while. Most of the advice here is best intentioned, but it seems relentlessly negative. does everything have to always end in the worst?

Some people reconcile, some people don't. maybe everything isn't always the worst case. i don't know.

I hope the best for you Calkid.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 507 | Registered: Mar 2013
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 1:26 PM, May 22nd (Wednesday)

Reconciliation can't happen unless the WS is remorseful,honest,and willing to do the hard work.

His wife is still in the affair. There's nothing positive about that.

But I do think we should wait until he returns..right now everything has been said...


BS(me)41
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,9
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Happily Reconciled.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7104 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
Lucky
Member
Member # 6864
Default  Posted: 1:58 PM, May 22nd (Wednesday)

do you think perhaps this guy is getting emotional overload? He hasn't posted for a while

Yes.
I have an absolutely awful sinking feeling that something dreadfully devistating has happened.


♥ WINE - the other fruit juice! ♥


Posts: 36162 | Registered: Apr 2005
HardenMyHeart
Member
Member # 15902
Default  Posted: 2:58 PM, May 22nd (Wednesday)

I have an absolutely awful sinking feeling that something dreadfully devistating has happened.

I have the same feeling. I hope you're doing Ok calkid.


Me: BH, Her: FWW - Long Term EA/PA
d-day: June 25, 2007
Married 29 years, Happily Reconciled

Posts: 5622 | Registered: Aug 2007
Sal1995
Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 4:15 PM, May 22nd (Wednesday)

I have nothing of substance to add, Calkid. Just wanted to let you know that one more SI member is thinking of you and hoping for the best. Let us know how you're doing when you get a chance.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciling


Posts: 1309 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 3:32 PM, May 23rd (Thursday)

Cal - Please just let us know you are ok. No need to keep posting should have made the choice not to. WE would love to help you, and know that you are well.

((((and strength)))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 7785 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
libertyrocks
Member
Member # 38924
Default  Posted: 3:43 PM, May 23rd (Thursday)

Yeah, man, what you're going through sounds horrible.


Me-BW 36. STBXH-35,alcoholic, suspected NPD SA. 2 boys. M 6yrs T13.
DDay #1 Nov, 2012. 1 year+ false R & TT. 10 OW PA's 1LTA (all W lied to) 3 years.
S Nov, 2013 and for good Jan, 2014
Filed for D Feb, 2014.

Posts: 909 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: So Cal, baby. :)
solus sto
Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 9:29 PM, May 23rd (Thursday)

Another SIer sending good thoughts, Cal...


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 52, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8294 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
calkid
Member
Member # 39132
Default  Posted: 10:04 PM, May 27th (Monday)

Everything is ok. My wife and I are reconciling. We are in professional counciling and things are getting better. Thanks for all your support.

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: California
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 7:40 AM, May 28th (Tuesday)

Good to hear it. I wish you both the best. You are always welcome to post here, the Reconciliation forum may be a bit more to your liking.

((((and strength)))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 7785 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
nofool4u
Member
Member # 38509
Default  Posted: 9:10 AM, May 28th (Tuesday)

Ok, good luck to you.

A question I have is, the "convention" she went to(sorry I didn't read what kind it was in all the pages here), was this business or for fun/hobby?

If it is the latter, then part of your reconciliation is she should be done with that.

If it is for business, most of them are not mandatory and a waste of time. So if it is for work, then I think she needs to have a talk to her boss and explain that unnecessary conventions will take a toll on her marriage and request that they be few and far between.

What is the counselor saying? If you don't want to share, I understand. Just wanting to know if he/she is going to be holding your W's feet to the fire, or if it is simply some feel good, do nothing talk. I ask because I'm genuinely curious as I've never been to any kind of counseling.

[This message edited by nofool4u at 9:10 AM, May 28th (Tuesday)]


Me - fBS

Posts: 210 | Registered: Feb 2013
hatefulnow
Member
Member # 35603
Default  Posted: 7:45 AM, May 29th (Wednesday)

Glad to hear you're working through it.

Posts: 119 | Registered: May 2012
ETOWN
New Member
Member # 39400
Default  Posted: 3:31 PM, May 30th (Thursday)

hey everyone I am new here I am one of the lucky ones that just fund out my wife kissed another man still trying to find out if it still going on I a mess right now cant stop thinking about it. I know we can get threw it I just don't know if she wants to not sure I be able to handle it if she dose not freaking out

Posts: 3 | Registered: May 2013
Mack25
New Member
Member # 38913
Default  Posted: 5:45 PM, May 30th (Thursday)

.
[hey everyone I am new here I am one of the lucky ones that just fund out my wife kissed another man still trying to find out if it still going on I a mess right now cant stop thinking about it. I know we can get threw it I just don't know if she wants to not sure I be able to handle it if she dose not freaking out/quote]

Will be easier if you start your own thread. I had a similar hing happen 2 mo ago


BH: Me (40)
WW: Her 38
Married 5/5/2001
2 sons, ages 5 and 8
1 daughter age 8
WW drunk make out session with me in next room
D day 3/16/2013
Trying to R

Posts: 24 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Colorado
Sal1995
Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 8:02 PM, May 31st (Friday)

Glad to hear it Calkid, my best to you and the wife.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciling


Posts: 1309 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Topic Posts: 279