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Reconciliation
User Topic: Thoughts to share with my wife
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 12:40 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

I struggle when my wife goes on business trips. That was where her affair was mostly conducted. She is currently out of town on one of these 4 day trips. I still struggle with feeling safe. I was really bothered last night when she called me to say goodnight. In her defense she was back in her room by 9:45, but she was obviously pretty tipsy. Here are my thoughts to her:

Consequences.

When you chose to have an affair, you probably didn't realize the consequences of your actions. I think even today you don't realize the consequences of the lies, deceit, betrayal, and utter disregard for myself and your family.

As a consequence of your affair. I have been changed forever. I know that you think our marriage will be stronger than before. And I hope it will too. But you also need to realize the effect of your decisions on me.

As a result of your affair:
I will always wonder whether you are being honest with me. I had no idea what was going on. None. Now when I think about our lives, I wonder if I am being fooled again. After all, on the night I found your emails, I believed in all my heart that you loved me and that we would be together forever. So now, when I am with you, and I think everything will be o.k., I am still reminded that I used to believe that..and it was a lie.

I haven't had a decent night sleep in over a year. I dream of you and him. I dream of you leaving me for him. I dream of him taking my children from me. He is now a part of my life.

I panic. I shake. I cry. I think about you and him together all the time.

I remember all of the love emails between you and him. As much as I try to move past them, they are a part of my life...I will never be able to forget them. Pieces of your emails haunt me. Buying condoms. Buying chocolate syrup. Wines, songs, cars, cookies on a plane. T-shirts. Perfect love. Eggs Benedict, "WWBD". All these things, remain with me. Even as they become less painful. They will always be in my memory, they will always be a part of me.

I have to struggle every single day with my emotions and my anger at this. I have to gauge every response, and have to check every emotion. I am left with the chore of trying to rebuild myself. I didn't ask for this. I didn't ask for this pain. It was place in my heart by you.

I have force myself to focus on simple tasks and not dwell on things. I have to force myself to work and not think about you and him. I have to force myself to work and not think about whether you are back in contact with him. Every day.

I have to find a way to let go of the pain. Pain I didn't ask for. I have to find a way to let go of the anger. Anger I didn't want. I have to let go of the betrayal. There are many days, I don't think I can.

I have to forgive you every day. I have to forgive and love the person that purposefully caused me more pain then anyone else I have ever known. There are many days that I struggle with this.

I have to trust you. Knowing what you are capable of. Knowing that I will never know for sure when the hammer might fall again. But I have to. And that's hard.

When you go on trips. I have to relive the memories of you and him. I was not there during your business trips. During Newport, during Saint Louis, and for whatever else I don't know about. I don't know how your affair blossomed, how it started. Whether it started over drinks with friends or casual outings. I will never know what went on. I don't know what happens on the trips that you go on now. You can tell me one thing..but we both know that you could easily be doing anything you wanted. We both know that it is possible that you are simply lying to me. It happened before, it can happen again.

I have panic attacks before you go on trips. I don't sleep. It is a huge trigger and it brings back a flood of memories, whether memories from the emails or memories created by my own imagination. But I struggle so much with them. And that's simply a consequence of your affair. When you call me after a "few" drinks, I don't know who you have been with. You could tell me, but I don't really know for sure, it could be a lie. What I do know is that you are out of town, drinking, in a hotel. All these things are huge triggers for me, and force the affair back into my head. No, I am not your warden. I don't set boundaries about your drinking on trips. But this is the effect it has on me. This is one of the consequences of your affair--I panic when you go to hotels and drink while on business trips. I know you think you are being good. That's great for you, it doesn't change the affect that it has on me.

So I struggle. I struggle every day through pain and shit. Through doubt. I cling to the fact that I do love you. I cling to the fact that I want to spend the rest of my life with you. That is what keeps me going. But I still suffer from the consequences of your choices

R has been going really well, we are about 15 months out. Sometimes R is going so well, that I feel that she doesn't want to acknowledge the damage that was done.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1272 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
BrokenT
New Member
Member # 39056
Default  Posted: 12:53 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

Wow. I wish i can have my thoughts so clear like yours. Our WSs will never understand the pain. But you brought it so close in your words.
I'm struggling too. R is not working.
Yours is working and this is good. Hang in there and enjoy what she has to offer.
I'm sorry u have to go through this and live your life like this, a life none of us expected to live...


BW 27
WH 33
Real Dday: May 22nd, 2013

Posts: 49 | Registered: Apr 2013
Theradin
Member
Member # 38518
Default  Posted: 1:00 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

That's a very heartfelt letter. Thank you for sharing that with us on SI.

Not knowing the specifics of your situation, my comments are general:

1) It sounds like you are still missing a LOT of the pieces to the A that you really DO need in order to properly and fully heal from this trauma. It appears as though there are huge gaps in what you know about the A. Is your WW being forthcoming and disclosing everything she knows? Are you having to discover or interrogate her to get answers, or is she willing to provide you with whatever you need to be on even footing with her? I would ask to know everything you feel comfortable knowing. If she is serious about R, she will gladly provide you with whatever is necessary.

2) Although your R may be going well for you, it sounds like she may not be fully aware of the repeated damage she is causing by continuing to act in ways that are inconsistent with a remorseful WS. By continuing to travel on business, go out drinking with whoever she goes out with in the hotels, etc., it sounds like she is continuing to behave and conduct herself in a manner indicative of the pre-A behavior, which likely contributed to the A in the first place. It sounds like you've expressed your concerns with her continued questionable behavior (based on your letter), but has she responded? Is she willing to quit drinking in random hotels with people?

For me, I was only comfortable moving forward in R with my WW by establishing terms and bottom-lines, but most of all, personal boundaries that protect myself from such harmful treatment. Some behavior is simply not acceptable or tolerated, nor is it consistent with a truly committed spouse. Things like breaking NC or engaging in any A-like behavior with anyone (texting, emailing, touching, fucking, etc.), and avoiding in appropriate behavior with members of the opposite sex (FB-chatting with ex's, even though it is "just platonic", discussing marital problems with coworkers of the opposite sex, etc.). Those are things that protect the marriage, protect me, and protect her. They are absolute requirements for R. I guess I'm wondering if you've agreed on certain behaviors and actions that are required of both of you to continue in R and rebuild what was intentionally desecrated by her poor judgement and actions?

Best of luck to you. And again, very well-written letter.


ME: 33 BH
HER: 32 WW
Married: 8 years
Children: Yes
DDay #1: 02/22/2006 (ONS)
DDay #2: 09/23/2012 (EA/PA)
DDay #3: 12/07/2012 (EA/PA)
DDay #4: 01/03/2013 (EA/PA)
DDay #5: 01/24/2013 (EA/PA)
TT until 04/07/2013
100% NC: 04/18/2013

Posts: 190 | Registered: Feb 2013
why2008
Member
Member # 18378
Default  Posted: 1:05 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

but she was obviously pretty tipsy

Talking as someone who enjoys having a cocktail after dinner, before dinner, even instead of dinner... I wonder if it would be a good idea to discuss her not drinking when away on these business trips.

Theradin wrote about boundaries... maybe this is one that is worth investigating?

Are you going to give her your letter? I think you should.


Me - BS - 46
Him - WS - 44
Two daughters / 10 and 7

Posts: 4072 | Registered: Feb 2008 | From: Maryland / DC
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 1:08 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

BrokenT:
Thanks. Sorry we are on this road together. It's a bumpy one.

Theradin:
Actually she has been really forthcoming about the affair--plus I had the joy of reading 500 or so emails between the two of them, so I think I have the details.

What I meant by never knowing what happened, is that I will never know the conversations, the business environment, and exactly what transpired. I mean, I know all the basic details, but not the interactions..tough to explain..but without being at the event, a second hand account doesn't reveal the whole truth.

Yes, R is going really well. But per our history, she doesn't like to 'dwell.' She thinks that because we are generally happy, that now I/we are o.k. So there are times that she needs to be reminded that not everything is roses and peaches in wonderboy land.

I think it is a lack of communication on this issue. She thinks that by checking in and being back in her room by 10 that everything should be fine. We need to work through my emotions and the effect that her actions have on me, even when she thinks she is being good.

But yes, we have agreed on some pretty good boundaries, just fine tuning.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1272 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 1:11 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

Why:

I emailed it to her this a.m. I do think this is something that needs to be addressed. I didn't realize the impact that this would have on me.

And yes...I enjoy more than one cocktail at times.

I think it is especially triggery, because the night the affair started it was at a work thing, and she and OM got literally puking drunk before having sex. So yeah, drinking with co-workers is a little bit of an issue for me.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1272 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
Pudding
Member
Member # 37168
Default  Posted: 1:16 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

Thank you for this. You feel just how I do. My FWH has to go away on two business trips in the next few weeks with his fOW (and others) and I hate it.

You letter/ notes were excellent. I have found it easier to send such musings to my FWH, I find it easier to write it down. I can keep calmer then and don't blow up so much. He has responded well , as he can process my words, think about them and respond, it doesn't put him on the spot or catch him out. It just sets out the facts of my feelings and starts the conversation.

If your FWW loves you and really wants to R, she should respond as well. I would encourage you to send your note.


Posts: 266 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: UK
Tred
Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 1:20 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

WB,

I think it's a good idea for you to let her know how you feel. Honesty and communication are essential to R.


Married: 17 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3828 | Registered: Dec 2011
SoVerySadNow
Member
Member # 36711
Default  Posted: 1:39 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

Very well written. So many of us have these feelings. My WH's infidelity was conducted while away on business also. I am gutted with each trip.
The words you wrote are eloquent. Thank you for sharing.


Me:BW
Him:WH
D-day(s),after years of TT and Gaslighting was Labor Day Weekend 2012, continuing for a week after. *Dammit! More TT 3/9/13
Really trending toward D- planning about it is my "happy place" now.

Posts: 1289 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Sunny Florida
inshockandhurt
Member
Member # 38789
Default  Posted: 1:45 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

I am so glad you posted this. I hope you don't mind, some of your writing captured exactly the way I feel sometimes and so I copied and pasted it onto my computer (I will delete it if you want me to) I hope everything gets better for us both.


Me: 29 BS
Him:31 WS
D-day1: caught July-ish of 05
D-day2: caught 2/17/13 6 month EA/PA
Both were with friends of mine
2 sons
Trying to reconcile

"Forgiveness means giving up all hope of a better past."


Posts: 278 | Registered: Mar 2013
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 1:49 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

Pudding: Work trips are the fricking worst. I feel for you, I always struggle with them. I can't imagine what it would be like if AP was there. Sorry you have to go through that.

Tred: I agree, communication has really helped. Even when you think you have good communication, often times you are reminded that it still needs to be improved.

InSHock: Copy and paste away. I didn't really proof-read it, so you may want to check it.

Soverysad: I feel your pain. Work trips. Hate them.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1272 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 3:45 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

Her response gives me hope, it was via text..(she can't really email while in meetings)

I got your email. And I do understand that you are struggling everyday and I am trying to be sensitive about your triggers and feelings. I hope you know that I am trying, not succeeding all the time, but I am trying. Sadly I thought I did well last night and I didn't so I will learn from it and do better to ease your pain next time. I love you and I'm sorry!

She thought she did well last night because she did not go out after the work function (which she was required to attend). I do give her props for that as she called from her room at 9:45. Ugggg, there are times that working through this shit is just frigging hard.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1272 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
Rebreather
Member
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 4:09 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

I hate the word try with the heat of 1,000 suns. And I hate when I take the time to put together a big ole heartfelt thing and get back 3 sentences.

That said, we had a "no drinking" rule for my spouse for quite some time after dday. I just couldn't risk a lowered boundary.


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Recovering.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6347 | Registered: Jan 2011
brokensmile322
Member
Member # 35758
Default  Posted: 4:11 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

((Wonderboy)) I so get how you feel.

My WH is away right now as well at one of these functions. My issues with them are that they are always at fabulous locations. There are restaurants and bars always on property. Not to mention the 5 start restaurants off campus with great lounges/bars/night spots.

Truth is that we will never know what goes on. My WH calls from his room too, but sadly, he could leave as soon as he hangs up. There are so many people he could 'hang' out with and then, if in an active affair, there are so many places a person can go in those places, not just their rooms. They can get a taxi and go to a romantic restaurant for instance. Hotel keys could be passed without a care in the world. There is hugging hellos and joking and kidding all around. Add alcohol to the mix and the lines quickly blur.

I am not saying this to give you anxiety. I am telling you that this is what I friggin struggle with every single time.

Now WH does what your WW does. He says he is in his room. He tries to bow out of things, but this isn't sustainable. He works in a social business. A lot of this wining and dining is expected. It is reimbursed.

I think your letter was beautiful and so true. I am glad that she responded well and didn't blame, but mentioned trying harder next time.

Do you ever wish you had this kind of job? Lately I have if nothing else then to have him be able to TRULY feel what it feels like.

ETA: My WH is not a hugger by nature and says that he avoids it all costs. He does say that some women are and it is always awkward when they go to hug him. He says that it is one of the weird things in business.

[This message edited by brokensmile322 at 4:14 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)]


Me BS 42 Him WS 44
OW Coworker DDay April 7, 2012
EA on a slippery slope...

When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves. ~Viktor Frankl

"When you are happy, you can forgive a great deal."


Posts: 1426 | Registered: Jun 2012
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 4:26 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

Rebreather:

I hate the word try with the heat of 1,000 suns. And I hate when I take the time to put together a big ole heartfelt thing and get back 3 sentences

I hear you. But she can't really compose a good response now. I expect I will get one later. I do get a long email everyday from her telling me why she loves me. Every day. (and I didn't ask for it).

So yes she is trying (for lack of a better word) And succeeding tremendously..doesn't make the pain go away..but it gives me a ton of hope. And a lot of Joy. So I cut her some slack...she didn't break one of my boundaries..I never said she couldn't drink.

Broken:
I know how easy it is on those trips. I do a couple a year for work, so I know how easy it is for boundaries to get crossed. I am glad I only have to do a couple, because that environment scares the bejesus out of me. Plus I tend to miss my wife and kids when I am gone.
Her response was good. She hasn't been getting defensive when I bring up the affair anymore..which has been incredibly helpful with our communication.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1272 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
Undone1
Member
Member # 37683
Default  Posted: 4:36 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

WOW! Beautifully written! This is exactly my story. Too many cities to even mention and count! The damage that our spouses do is certainly immense and often I wonder if I can do this!

I am only 6 months out!


Undone1
Married 10+ years to my high school sweetheart
DDAY 10/27/12
Me 55
WH 55
Blended Family: 25, 21, and 20
Married 10 years
"The Universe Unfolds as it Should"

Posts: 301 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Missouri
LA44
Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 4:52 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

Wonderboy: One thing I noted in particular was that you do not know how the A got started in specifics while away at the conference.

This was one part of the A that I asked multiple questions about. I needed piece #1 to the multi-piece puzzle

Where were you?
How drunk were you?
Why her? What was it about her?
Who started it?
You went back to her room with drinks in hand?
You initiated it?!
She was into it?
Do you just walk around with condoms in your pocket?
She has condoms in her make up bag and she's newly seperated?
What did you think when it was over? Did you feel badly?
Why did you do it again the next night?

I just needed a very FULL picture of that FIRST night at the conference so I could envision it and write it down. I didn't need to make it worse by creating my own scenarios which I am fantastic at btw.

In any event. I think its healthy you wrote it. Healthy you sent it and glad she responded. Guess you have more to talk about when she gets home.

Hugs to you,
LA

[This message edited by LA44 at 4:53 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)]


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2211 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 4:58 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

Wonderboy: One thing I noted in particular was that you do not know how the A got started in specifics while away at the conference

No, I know all the stuff. That was a brutal discussion. What I don't know..is how their friendship formed, how they looked at each other. While I know all the details...I wasn't there...so I will never truly know what happened. I'll never know at what conference their personal boundaries began being crossed. I'll never know which work call ended with one of them thinking...hmmmm maybe I can take this to the next level and destroy a couple of families.

So while I know basic details...without having been there...I will never have the entire picture.

ETA...And I accept that. It just sucks that work conferences still trigger me.

[This message edited by wonderboy at 5:00 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)]


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1272 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
MC_Jack
Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 5:33 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

wb,

it is not only that


Sometimes R is going so well, that I feel that she doesn't want to acknowledge the damage that was done

it is that I am sure that you (like me) are hesitant to bring it up or mention it. After all, how many times a day can you yell 'ouch'?

Nice letter. You look like a good couple together, based on the pics you posted in the other thread.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 860 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 5:38 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

it is that I am sure that you (like me) are hesitant to bring it up or mention it. After all, how many times a day can you yell 'ouch'?

I hear that. Not sure if it's the right thing to do or not, but I find myself weighing whether or not to bring up issues affair related. I kind of stop and think what the purpose is of bringing hurts up. Is it to help us move forward or is it to be snarky and punish her. Sometimes I give into the snarky remarks..but I am getting better.

Regarding the pictures: I am very photogenic aren't I!


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1272 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
Tred
Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 6:05 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

I am very photogenic aren't I!

I'd comment on this but we are both married and that might be crossing some boundary


Married: 17 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3828 | Registered: Dec 2011
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 6:07 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

Probably for the best Tred, at least in this forum. We can talk about my good looks in the Betrayed Men thread.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1272 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
wincing_at_light
Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 6:17 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

It's all fair game in the Menz Thread.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6742 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
stilllovingher
Member
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 10:32 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

hey WB,
I have to forgive you every day.

at 4+ years out...this part stuck out to me. This is one of those things that seems to go unspoken.
I really don't think anyone outside of our situations could understand this aspect of the process.
It will get easier, though. And then the struggle will become more about yourself and less about your marriage.
But hey, "they" say engines run better under a little stress right?


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2403 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
Hearthache again
Member
Member # 28564
Default  Posted: 10:57 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

Tred glad you sent it. They need to know how we are feeling. Did you guys set guidelines or rules post DDay about trips out of town? If not maybe this would be a good idea. Personally I would want a no alcohol or limit of 1-2 drinks while away.

While my H does not go away for work he does work 3rds and I feel for you. I have a hard time sleeping without him here. We have been separated since dday because of my work through our church. We always set up times we will talk and such.


Me-BS(32)
Him-WS(35)
Married-12 years together 13
Kids 4: 15, 12, 8, and 3
DDay#1 9-26-2008 Dday#2 4-26-2010
We have R!!! But I still hate the number 26!

This too shall pass
I edit a lot because that stupid box is so small!


Posts: 871 | Registered: May 2010 | From: Michigan
hailstormer
Member
Member # 35873
Default  Posted: 11:07 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

Wow you brought tears to my eyes reading your letter.
That's one reason I could never do this to someone I love because to hear the extreme pain in your loved ones words would be too much for me to handle. To know now the pain I myself barely survived from and to be able
to hurt someone so much and sometimes I just don't think they get it.
It reminded me once of when my WS was away on business and he made his ritual "call in" to his wife to tell me he was safe, ok, missed me and loved me then he said Oh gotta go they are waiting for me to eat dinner bye love you and before I could even get 2 words out of my mouth he was gone. At that moment I just shrugged it off and said oh well no big deal and now I look back and say Wow you felt that obligated to have to call me and tell me you loved me and missed me which now I know was all bullshit just part of the play, the act, the lies.
Some things I will never be able to forget or get over and we are 3 years out. Sometimes I pray that we could reconcile but then when I read these posts I know it would be killing me everyday to trust and just to survive all the triggers.
Tough
Good Luck at least you have a chance. Try to make the most of it I hope she gets it!


me(BS)-55
him(WS)-53
together 21 years
1st D-Day 4-19-10
2nd D-Day 5-3-12
married 19 years
2 kids 13-twins
Unfortunately...divorcing

Posts: 122 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Florida
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 11:39 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

Stillloving.
Yup, for me forgiveness is a constant process. It would be nice if it wasn't, but I am just not there yet.

And then the struggle will become more about yourself and less about your marriage

Can you expand on this more for me?


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1272 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 11:41 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

Heartache:
We have a lot of boundaries, but the drinking had not really been discussed. It was more of a check in..don't stay out late...don't go out to after event parties. To be fair to her...she actually thought she was doing great. miscommunication on my/our part.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1272 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 11:46 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)

Hail:
I don't know if the pain wouldn't still be there if we didn't reconcile. I mean the damage is already done, and she still would have been a part of my life due to the three young kids.

For me, the process is still worth it...But I do have a remorseful spouse, and we are committed together, so yes...pain still..but less than it used to be, and now lots of joy is starting to come back too.

But yes..knowing the pain that this crap causes, I could never do that to anyone..much less myself..because I also see the damage that it did to my wife.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1272 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
WastedEffort
New Member
Member # 39125
Default  Posted: 8:52 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Thanks for sharing WonderBoy. I recognized a lot of those feelings in there.
I'm thankful my WW's affair wasn't of that romantic nature. Her AP really didn't invest in her at all. But I never got to see the emails or texts they exchanged because she deleted them immediately to cover her tracks. Somedays I wish I did, because like you say, I wasn't there. Even though almost all her "events" occurred in her car in a parkade and were short in duration...I find myself still wondering what that looked like. She's been forthcoming with details, and still I wonder.
Painful stuff. Glad to hear she's trying. Maybe she'll be respectful of your triggers and try to change the way she conducts herself to grant you some relief.

Posts: 31 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Canada
stilllovingher
Member
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 10:42 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

WB,
I haven't forgotten this, I just haven't had time to write a well thought out response.
I will get back to you tonight.
hopefully today is easier on you.


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2403 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 2:24 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Well, she didn't drink at all last night. At least that's what she told me when she called to say goodnight. (but I believe her..I can tell when she has had a couple of drinks). So that's a good thing.

I will feel much better when she gets home tonight. I hate these trips.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1272 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
stilllovingher
Member
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 7:41 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

that's an improvement I suppose.

What i mean by "the struggle becomes less about your marriage and more about you"...

For the first 18 months or so(longer if the WW isnt fully cooperative, for me it was at about 3 years due to other distractions from self) its all about trauma recovery, getting your feet back under you, punishment, building self esteem, working out what you have left together and what you can build on...etc...all relatively obvious issues and processes. And also largely done either as a couple or at least with the other spouse in mind.

Once you decide to R and get through all or most of the above steps, thats when things begin to normalize. And normal is where shit gets weird! Once things settle, your mind actually has the time and focus to form self centered thoughts, or at least thats when mine started.
You see, initially, for me, it was all about...
Can i forgive her?
Can i live with what she did?
Can i love her?
What is she thinking about?
What is she doing?
Can we ever be as good as i thought we were?
Can i be what she needs/wants?


Then normalcy crept in, and in with it came a shift of thought.
I began to think of myself, of MY wants, MY dreams, MY needs.
I began thinking of whats lost, that can never be ruturned. The ideals that were so important to me. Beleive it or not, being able to tell my grandchildren when im an old ass fart, that grams n gramps have been married forever and have always been faithful to each other was a serious goal of mine, a dream. A dream that i now am forced to drop. Well, a dream thats a decade in the making doesnt just evaporate, it hangs around, it pops into your head just as a reminder.
A dream like that carries a bat, and smacks your current reality right in the nuts, just to test its durability.

All the existential crap creeps in. All the self doubting questions about "shifting morals" and "if she ever cheats again...! ...wait, well shit, if her cheating AGAIN is a dealbreaker, why the fuck isnt this one!?!? Why wasnt this the last straw FOR ME!?" Are boundaries retroactive?

Now, im not saying that these types of thoughts arent present in the early days, they are. But later on, when my brain stopped swirling and became less and less we/her focussed, these thoughts really took center stage.

Hope that made some sense and wasnt too much of a downer.


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2403 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 10:08 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

That was very insightful. Thank you for taking the time to express that to me.

It certainly gives me something to think about. I have been so focused on saving me and us, I never thought about what would happen when we got out of triage. Damnit. I was expecting unicorns and rainbows.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1272 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
Tred
Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 11:14 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Damnit. I was expecting unicorns and rainbows.

At least you are photogenic, that's nothing to sneeze about.


Married: 17 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3828 | Registered: Dec 2011
stilllovingher
Member
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 1:33 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

you're welcome. Im not all doom n gloom these days though.
I have to admit, I never thought that we would be all unicorns and rains rainbows. I'd seen in the past what affairs do to families. So going into R I just kinda figured what we ended up with would be "tolerable" . But we've managed much much better than that.

But every once in awhile one of those normal days gets to me and turns some gears in my head. Those are the days when I remind myself that forgiveness is ACTIVE choice that, for the time being, requires a little maintenance.


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2403 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
1985
Member
Member # 28171
Default  Posted: 12:25 PM, May 3rd (Friday)

Wonderboy, I understand what you are saying. My thoughts for you. If she didn't have an outside job, wouldn't you wonder what she did during the day while you were at work? Wonder what she is doing while you are out of town overnight with your job? So really, the issue is more just finally having confidence that it won't happen again. Her being on a trip is a trigger because of the past and I get that. But if she is going to cheat again, it can happen anytime and anywhere. So, again, it comes down to regaining trust and comfort with her. Once you are fully there, her trips will bother you no more than when you hit the road for work and she is at home. You 2 have been doing great and you are going to get there. Just more time!!
You say you wonder if she really gets the extent of the damage done. Truthfully, I don't think anyone can understand the full extent, and the fact that it is to some extent forever, if they haven't suffered a betrayal themself. But I suspect that your W understands much more than what you think. But it is extremely painful to her. Think about how painful it would be to you if you had to accept that you had imposed such pain on her. And I bet she struggles with facing that everyday. And has to try to get past it to keep functioning. She can't wallow in it and berate herself every day. She can't punish herself constantly. If she did, she couldn't do her part of rebuilding your lives and M. She has to heal and get this behind her. Not forget the lessons learned; but get past self loathing and move on to starting life anew. So maybe what you see as not being aware of damage done is really more her trying to move on and rebuild.
Your recent posts tell me she is working hard at rebuilding and making you feel loved. That's a real positive. Hang in there.


Me-BH 63
Her-fWW 63
DDay: June 1985. 5 years after A ended
DDay June, 1985
DDay June 1985
Still married - actually in love
2 grown kids; 4 grandkids

Posts: 591 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: Midwest - large city
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 12:31 PM, May 3rd (Friday)

Tred: That is true. I should never ignore my handsomeness.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1272 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
seachelle
New Member
Member # 39104
Default  Posted: 12:35 PM, May 3rd (Friday)

I feel the same way about when my husband is supposed to go out of town. The OW left the place where she worked, and my husband still does business with that 'store' so I feel a little better that they would not run into each other.

My anxiety comes from the fact that I feel like he has a whole other life that I know nothing about. And he told me a couple of guys knew about his affair and I was pissed off that no one had my back...but why would they tell me? I've never even met them. They don't know that I am a good person and that I love my husband and my children.

I would love to go on these business trips to learn more about what he does and the people he works with. The corporate world seems to be a breeding ground for affairs.

When my father worked for IBM I remember them having dinners with co workers, sometimes the spouses were invited on trips, there were family events for all of the employees, etc. Your coworkers were aware of your family.

I just found out about his A on 4/14/13 so he has not been on a business trip yet. There is one scheduled in June and it is for 5 days and I am panicking every time I think about it.

I hope you did share this with your wife. My goal is to step out of my comfort zone and be totally honest about what I am feeling about everything...no matter how trivial it may seem. There are not a lot of trivial aspects of this event and I have to keep telling myself this. I need to do this to relieve my pain and if he loves me he will help me through it. So far he has been very good with it. I see his remorse when he sees the pain he has caused me. I know we have a long road ahead of us.


Posts: 24 | Registered: Apr 2013
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 12:35 PM, May 3rd (Friday)

1985:

That's powerful and insightful stuff. I do feel a lot of the trust coming back. I don't feel the need to check her emails or phone anymore. I don't even check her phone gps when she is on trips. So the trust is coming back. She actually travels a lot, the single overnight trips I am o.k. with...it's the conferences that are just a huge trigger for me. Not as much as they used to be, but it really brings the memories crashing back.

I get what you are saying about the self-punishment. And I have been trying to empathize with what she must be going through. But there are times that it is difficult to break out of the BS mindset. Especially when she's at a conference.

So maybe what you see as not being aware of damage done is really more her trying to move on and rebuild.
I think this is probably right on. Thanks.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1272 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 12:38 PM, May 3rd (Friday)

I just found out about his A on 4/14/13 so he has not been on a business trip yet. There is one scheduled in June and it is for 5 days and I am panicking every time I think about it.

I am so sorry about this Sea. The first one is the toughest.
For her first one, there was a lot of checking in, some photos, nightly calls, and phone GPS. Early on in R, it can be really--really difficult to trust them on these trips. Hell, it's still a struggle.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1272 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
Topic Posts: 41