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User Topic: What goes up...
wonderingbull
Member
Member # 14833
Default  Posted: 11:01 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Must come down...

I've been sensing something was wrong with KD but believed it was the stress of dealing with the mother of her grand daughter...

Well, it wasn't... Last night we went to dinner and then to a Fleetwood Mac concert... We've gone to a lot of concerts... That's one thing her ex hated and she likes to do... Well, she acted like it was a hassel even being there with me...

This morning I got a text apologizing for her attitude saying the grand daughter thing was weighing on her...

A few minutes after that I got a breakup text!!!!! You know, the we need to reevaluate the relationship thing... Citing age differences, me wearing (nice) shorts, PDA's and then a dig comparing me and her ex...

Oh well.... It was a fun ride... I was fine before her and I'll be fine after her...

Jeeezzzz, I thought going to a Fleetwood concert would be a good thing! I did enjoy them for the 6th time... KD not so much...

WB


The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time...

James Taylor


Posts: 5969 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: A better place
Newlease
Member
Member # 7767
Default  Posted: 11:04 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

I'm so sorry to hear this. Break up by text? After all this time?

You are putting on a brave face, but I know it hurts.

And if this is just a temporary thing - make sure you guard against being jerked around. She will probably regret this sooner or later.

Sending strength and peace.

NL


Even if you can't control the world around you, you are still the master of your own soul.

Posts: 7676 | Registered: Aug 2005
nowiknow23
Guide
Member # 33226
Default  Posted: 11:24 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

((((WB)))) I'm so sorry.

A few minutes after that I got a breakup text!!!!! You know, the we need to reevaluate the relationship thing... Citing age differences, me wearing (nice) shorts, PDA's and then a dig comparing me and her ex...
Wow. You deserve far better than that, WB. Please be easy on yourself while you process this.


You can call me NIK

"Sometimes it takes a good fall to know where you really stand."
-Hayley Williams


Posts: 25059 | Registered: Aug 2011
wonderingbull
Member
Member # 14833
Default  Posted: 11:24 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Thanks NL.... It is a real shock... I really thought we had something special... I thought we'd jumped over some hurdles and understood each other better by being there when life threw us each curveballs...

I believed we communicated well and recently I've asked her if there was anything more I could do to help her during the mess with her grand daughter... She said no and thanked me for being so supportive...

And if this is just a temporary thing - make sure you guard against being jerked around. She will probably regret this sooner or later.

Who knows if it's temporary... I'm ready if this is permanant... I certainly don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me... The ex taught me that... There will be no chasing, begging, pleading or anything else on my part... I learned the power of NC....

One thing I do know is that the next guy she dates better be deaf because she can't speak one paragraph without referring to her ex husband by name at least twice...

I'll miss having a companion to do things with though...

WB


The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time...

James Taylor


Posts: 5969 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: A better place
kernel
Member
Member # 27035
Default  Posted: 11:25 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

((WB)) Wow, a text. That was cold. I'm sorry, it must really hurt. You're right though - you'll be okay.


"On particularly rough days when I'm sure I can't possibly endure, I like to remind myself that my track record for getting through bad days so far is 100% - and that's pretty good."

Posts: 5058 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Midwest
lieshurt
Member
Member # 14003
Default  Posted: 11:32 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

I'm sorry WB. I know it sucks and it hurts.

(((WB)))


comparing me and her ex

Didn't she do this before WB? From some of the things you described on here before, I think she just hasn't let go of her ex.



I'm sorry if you don't like my Honesty, but to be fair I don't like your lies.

Sometimes it's better to push someone away...not because you stopped loving them but because you can't take the pain anymore.


Posts: 13724 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Houston
wonderingbull
Member
Member # 14833
Default  Posted: 11:32 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Wow. You deserve far better than that, WB. Please be easy on yourself while you process this.

Thanks NIK.... I thought the whole text was pretty damn petty and insulting... Since she's been communicating with the mother of her grand daughter through marathon texting I guess she's gone to the middle school method of communication...

Actually, she'd have to beg me to even consider going back... You know what we say around here... When people show you who they are.... believe them...

You know... I've actually bounced right to the anger stage...

Her loss...

WB


The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time...

James Taylor


Posts: 5969 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: A better place
veritas
Member
Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 11:36 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

(((wb))) I am in shock! It sounded like you did have something special, but Miss Thing can't handle special. It IS her loss...


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10168 | Registered: Feb 2004
nowiknow23
Guide
Member # 33226
Default  Posted: 11:36 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Her loss...
Word.


You can call me NIK

"Sometimes it takes a good fall to know where you really stand."
-Hayley Williams


Posts: 25059 | Registered: Aug 2011
wonderingbull
Member
Member # 14833
Default  Posted: 11:44 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Yeah lieshurt... She's got a huge hangup about her ex...

As she always told me, she loved the way I was younger, energetic, loved to go places and do things... She complimented me on my casual and dress up styles... Now she's using those as "reasons" for her problems...

She'll figure out what she's missing when all she does is get up, go to work, go home and go to bed... Just like she was before me... By that time I'll already be happily on my way...

I really think I was a rebound for her... I'd hoped not but if so, so be it...

WB


The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time...

James Taylor


Posts: 5969 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: A better place
wonderingbull
Member
Member # 14833
Default  Posted: 11:46 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

What cracks me up is the "younger" thing.... Holy shit! I'm 53 and I'm too young????

Oh... BTW... I've now got an extra ticket to Paul McCartney!

WB


The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time...

James Taylor


Posts: 5969 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: A better place
jo2love
Moderator
Member # 31528
Default  Posted: 11:50 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

(((WB)))


Posts: 34748 | Registered: Mar 2011
EvenKeel
Member
Member # 24210
Default  Posted: 11:51 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

me wearing (nice) shorts

Well, I guess we all have dealbreakers....but really??????

I am so sorry!

PS - that whole thing with her references to her ex - yuck. Yep - she definitely needs to do some work on that first before she is ready for NB.


Eyes are useless if the mind is blind.


Posts: 2056 | Registered: May 2009 | From: Pa
lieshurt
Member
Member # 14003
Default  Posted: 11:55 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Oh... BTW... I've now got an extra ticket to Paul McCartney!

You won't have a problem finding somebody else to go with you to that concert.


I'm sorry if you don't like my Honesty, but to be fair I don't like your lies.

Sometimes it's better to push someone away...not because you stopped loving them but because you can't take the pain anymore.


Posts: 13724 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Houston
wonderingbull
Member
Member # 14833
Default  Posted: 11:58 AM, May 2nd (Thursday)

As a 63 year old pediatrician on a date with a young guy in shorts with public PDA just bothers me and maybe shouldn't but does.

That's just one part of her text... BTW.. it was 85 degrees, we sat outside to eat and the shorts were fresh from the cleaners and pressed... My shirt was a starched button down...

The PDA was me touching her hand while waiting on our dinner...

I guess my deal breaker is her attitude...

WB


The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time...

James Taylor


Posts: 5969 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: A better place
lieshurt
Member
Member # 14003
Default  Posted: 12:01 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

a young guy in shorts with public PDA

The nerve of you WB


I'm sorry if you don't like my Honesty, but to be fair I don't like your lies.

Sometimes it's better to push someone away...not because you stopped loving them but because you can't take the pain anymore.


Posts: 13724 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Houston
Amazonia
Member
Member # 32810
Default  Posted: 12:25 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

I'm sorry, WB.

I thought you guys had it really good. I'm sorry that she's dealing with things in the way she is, and that she doesn't seem to see what a great thing you two could have together. I agree wholeheartedly that you deserve better, and am heartened to see you demanding it, taking this all in stride.

(((hugs))) for when you need them.


"You yourself deserve your love and affection as much as anybody in the universe." -Buddha
"Let's face it, life is a crap shoot." -Sad in AZ

Posts: 13690 | Registered: Jul 2011
meaniemouse
Member
Member # 10798
Default  Posted: 12:26 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

WB--I'm so sorry--I really enjoyed reading your posts about your relationship and especially appreciated when you gave great advice to me specifically when I had concerns about mine.

It seems like she was stretching pretty far to find a reason to end the relationship. Shorts when the temp is 85? Horrors!! How could you?? Touching someone's hand in public? OMG---Someone call the police!!

Reading between the lines--do you think it was WAY more about the age difference and her feeling old than anything you did wrong?

Maybe the old Fleetwood Mac songs triggered her feelings of lost youth and regrets about her ex and the way their marriage fell apart and she is just feeling OLD. She probably sees you as not only younger in age but in personality and spirit and maybe doesn't feel like she can keep up for the long haul. KD may be thinking that one day you will see her the way she sees herself so better for her self esteem to end it now and use the reasons she stated in her text rather than facing the fact that she is, indeed, aging.

Again, I'm sorry this happened to you. It really doesn't appear that you have done anything but be yourself, respect this woman for who she is and what she is and be a loving and fun partner. Let her go and mourn her lost marriage and exhusband, her youth and whatever else is causing her distress.

But. . . when she starts to mourn what she really lost--YOU---I hope you are too busy to be bothered.


PS--Fleetwood Mac was here in town on Tuesday--I'm so bummed that I missed it.


Act as if what you do matters. It does. William James

Posts: 2105 | Registered: May 2006 | From: Midwest
OnceInALifetime
Member
Member # 26023
Default  Posted: 12:42 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

How incredibly lame. I admire how you're taking it in stride and see her reasoning and behavior around it for what it is: ludicrous.

Now you've learned your lesson. The next person you date, no shorts or hand holding in public (no matter the weather). Communicate only by text, because anything else is too close for comfort. And use age-accelerating cream, *especially* if you're dating a pediatrician, because there must be no doubt that she's not dating one of her patients.


BH, now divorced

Posts: 3012 | Registered: Oct 2009
need_hope
Member
Member # 23989
Default  Posted: 12:50 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Well that just sucks.

((((WB))))


Me - happily single
Him - no longer matters
Married 28 yrs
Filed for D 1/10
DIVORCED 12/12

Tact is for people who aren't witty enough to be sarcastic.


Posts: 1730 | Registered: May 2009 | From: East Coast
wonderingbull
Member
Member # 14833
Default  Posted: 12:51 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Hey meanie :-)

I don't know what set her off... Trying to figure it out does me no good... It wasn't the concert... She'd been "off" since the crap with her grand daughter blew up but I did all I could do to support her through that...

Feeling old? Holy shit... Don't we all...

Bouncing right into the angry stage is protecting me from a lot of feelings now... The rose color glasses have definitely come off...

What really pisses me off is her using the "pediatrician" bullshit... I make more fucking money in oil and gas than she does!

I've typed out an angry text and am resisting sending it.... Thinking I'll drop by her house while she's at work and pick up my things and leave her key and a note saying...

"Classy breakup text... Good luck..."

WB


The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time...

James Taylor


Posts: 5969 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: A better place
wonderingbull
Member
Member # 14833
Default  Posted: 12:54 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Now you've learned your lesson. The next person you date, no shorts or hand holding in public (no matter the weather). Communicate only by text, because anything else is too close for comfort. And use age-accelerating cream, *especially* if you're dating a pediatrician, because there must be no doubt that she's not dating one of her patients.

Oh OIAL.... that's a good one!

WB


The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time...

James Taylor


Posts: 5969 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: A better place
meaniemouse
Member
Member # 10798
Default  Posted: 1:13 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

WB--yeah, don't send the angry text. It might feel good for a minute or two after you hit send but it doesn't sound like your style.

I vote for picking up your stuff while she's gone and leaving the key with no note. Sometimes nothing speaks as loud as silence.

And yes, good sir, everyone feels old. But as someone who is looking at 57,
(OMG,OMG, OMG--why is this happening????? TO ME????)
with many friends in the same boat, women are judged more harshly when it comes to aging than men are. Even if we have accomplished lots and generally have healthy self-esteem, aging gracefully and accepting it, is more of a challenge for women than it is for men. No matter how good you look and feel, inside and outside.

Now excuse me while I continue my search for the fountain of youth. I have to find it before old age seizes me and drags me to the gates of the abyss.



Act as if what you do matters. It does. William James

Posts: 2105 | Registered: May 2006 | From: Midwest
Crescita
Member
Member # 32616
Default  Posted: 1:27 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

It sounds like she spent too much of the relationship on the outside looking in rather than just appreciating it for what it was. Usually you get to a point in your life when you realize the people you have been trying to impress aren’t worth impressing. You’d think a grandmother and professional would have picked that up already. At least she let you know she is one of the people you don’t have to worry about impressing.

Posts: 3344 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: The Valley of the Sun
ManBearDivorce
Member
Member # 36258
Default  Posted: 1:31 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

(((WB)))

Big Man Bear hugs to you!!! You have been through alot. Early on when you mentioned that she was always mentioning her x, I was really concerned about it. One thing is that you let go of your past and move on. Certainly I believe she hasn't but its my opinion. Well you are taking it classy and I give you props.

Give this man a hand!!! Lol.


Posts: 339 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: St.Paul Minnesota
fadedrainbow
Member
Member # 9280
Default  Posted: 1:41 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Shorts? PDA? A breakup text????? I am so sorry, what's wrong with people? ((((wondering bull)))


me: FBW
D-Day May 2005
divorced December 2009


Posts: 134 | Registered: Jan 2006 | From: UK
wonderingbull
Member
Member # 14833
Default  Posted: 1:44 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Things picked up, key left and a note saying:

I apologize for being younger and embarrassing.

If there is anything I left feel free to throw it away.

The key is on your back porch.

WB

What's odd is that I'm more pissed than anything... I mean... What a bitch... Thinking she's better somehow than me because she's a fucking pediatrician?

She can pine the fuck away for her NPD ex or find some other asshole to put up with her shallow ass...

I might be venting a bit here in the near future rather than engage with her...

WB


The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time...

James Taylor


Posts: 5969 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: A better place
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 1:53 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Can't wait to see if she responds! Great response to her.


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2726 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
h0peless
Member
Member # 36697
Default  Posted: 1:53 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

(((WB

I had been following your story since I registered. I'm really sorry she got hung up on such childish and stupid things. Sounds like the whole talking about her ex thing was a huge red flag right from the start. Onward to better things, I guess.

(They weren't jorts, were they?)

[This message edited by h0peless at 1:54 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)]


Posts: 1657 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Baja Arizona
meaniemouse
Member
Member # 10798
Default  Posted: 1:59 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Doesn't sound odd to me. Sounds pretty normal. Vent away. The more vitriol the better. Call me crazy (and many do) but I think it's healthy and cleansing to do it in a safe place.

Plus I took today off, it's too nasty to go out and I love to read vents. I pick up the best lines from SI.


Act as if what you do matters. It does. William James

Posts: 2105 | Registered: May 2006 | From: Midwest
cayc
Member
Member # 21964
Default  Posted: 2:03 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

That's just odd what she did and I'm very sorry to hear this. Glad you're holding your own in response.

And I *love* Fleetwood Mac. And Paul McCartney. And men in shorts She's missing out imho.


"The difference between involvement and commitment is like ham and eggs. The chicken is involved, the pig is committed." -Martina Navratilova
"The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me." -Ayn Rand

Posts: 3059 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Mexico
tryingagain74
Member
Member # 33698
Default  Posted: 2:18 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

I'm sorry, WB. She sounds like she was really grasping at straws to find reasons to break up with you, so it's definitely not you. I mean... shorts!?!? Who says that?!?

Sending you positive, comforting vibes.


BS (Me) 39
Happily liberated!
Two DS and One DD
It matters not how strait the gate,/How charged with punishments the scroll./I am the master of my fate:/I am the captain of my soul.--"Invictus," William Ernest Henley

Posts: 3575 | Registered: Oct 2011
wonderingbull
Member
Member # 14833
Default  Posted: 2:26 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

What's fucking ironic is that the first and only time we had a spat she wrote out a note by hand because she said she's just that way.... She doesn't do texting.... Bullshit...

I could care less if she responds or not... Right now I'm not fucking interested in her thoughts or feelings about anything...

I bent over fucking backwards accomodating her schedule... Anytime there was something that came up about her grand daughter our plans flew out the window...

Hell I even bought a twice as expensive plane ticket for her to go on a trip with me because of a last minute "change of plans" grand daughter deal... Guess I'm the sucker now...

I've overlooked an awful lot of baggage she brought with her... I did it because at our ages everyone has it but.... I didn't call bullshit on certain things... Like her always referring to her ex...

I mean... Everyone of my friends she was ever around mentioned how much she talked about him... She met a ton of my friends...

She doesn't really have any friends either... The only one's she has are her ex husband's sisters...

Boy oh boy.... It will be good seeing my friends this evening... She'll be home alone just like she was before me...

FTG

WB


The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time...

James Taylor


Posts: 5969 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: A better place
kernel
Member
Member # 27035
Default  Posted: 2:47 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

WB - vent away and crickets to her. It sounds more and more like you dodged a bullet - you were giving way more than you were getting. I think there needs to be more of a balance, regardless of the baggage each person has. Stay away from her, and call your friends to hang out when the mad wears off. You deserve better then some holier-than-thou-please worship me because I'm a doctor and you aren't- prima donna. FTG indeed. (I really have a problem with people that try to make others feel less than - can you tell?)


"On particularly rough days when I'm sure I can't possibly endure, I like to remind myself that my track record for getting through bad days so far is 100% - and that's pretty good."

Posts: 5058 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Midwest
MoeGreen63
Member
Member # 6832
Default  Posted: 3:03 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Shorts? Really? She was really reaching on that one. Even if she didn't say it... it really isn't you, it's her. Wow. Shorts.

Unless of course you were wearing shorts with a Tuxedo or something.


Posts: 14112 | Registered: Apr 2005
wonderingbull
Member
Member # 14833
Default  Posted: 3:12 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Thanks Kernel

I'm a fortunate guy in that I've got a great group of friends both male and female... We've all been in and out of the wringer enough and helped each other through it...

You have to be fucking kidding me... Because she's a 63 y.o. pediatrician my wearing shorts matters how? Really?

I think I did dodge a bullet now that I'm wrapping my mind around this...

Thank God... No more Fox News!

WB


The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time...

James Taylor


Posts: 5969 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: A better place
h0peless
Member
Member # 36697
Default  Posted: 3:16 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Thank God... No more Fox News!

That would be a deal breaking red flag for me!


Posts: 1657 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Baja Arizona
kernel
Member
Member # 27035
Default  Posted: 3:17 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

LOL on Fox news! I wish I could get my Mom to quit watching it.


"On particularly rough days when I'm sure I can't possibly endure, I like to remind myself that my track record for getting through bad days so far is 100% - and that's pretty good."

Posts: 5058 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Midwest
cass
Member
Member # 24261
Default  Posted: 3:36 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Oh boy, is she so the loser here?

I'm sorry WB, sorry that you invested as much as you did. She may be a pediatrician but so what? She's an idiot who has learned nothing about life, relationships or people.

It has nothing to do with you so leave her to her problems, memories she hasn't reconciled, and an empty future.

Grieve, analyse, accept and move on. You know your deserve so much more.

((((WB))))


DDay - April 2008
Me - 54 and doing great. Found myself again and loving life
Him - who??

I can see clearly now, the rain is gone (Johnny Nash)

Those who stir the shit soup get to lick the spoon!


Posts: 4965 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: UK
Hoops
Member
Member # 22721
Default  Posted: 3:45 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

WB

I am so sorry!! It sounds like you didnt even see this coming!

I loved hearing about this relationship, you guys were really working things out and being such a great example of a great relationship, that they even exist!

Good for you in how you are dealing with it all! I dont doubt there will still be some rough times for you when it really sinks in. Otherwise it sounds like you have a good handle on how to deal with it.

She is the one who ultimately lost. But like you said, you dont want to be with someone who does not want to be with you. At least you had a nice time and even better, you have proven you are capable of having a fantastic relationship and work through things. Imagine how great it is going to be when you cross paths with someone who adores you as much as you adore them.

Take good care of yourself and I am really sorry to hear it ended. You deserve better then that, and there is some really lucky woman out there who does not realize how lucky she is going to be when you find one another.


BW (Me) 44
W(ex)H 46 .... SA, Alcoholic, compulsive liar
DD 12-03-08
Divorced: 9-14-10
Now: Happily married to a great guy who has the same birthday as my DD! Ironic. Now it is just my husband's birthday.

Posts: 294 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Va
wonderingbull
Member
Member # 14833
Default  Posted: 3:55 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Thanks cass...

Hey, I jumped out there after years being single and I took a chance... Can't fault myself for that or just being me...

I'm sure I'll be able to do a full autopsy on the relationship after the disbelief wears off...

I wasn't even looking when I asked her out but I also didn't know the extent of her baggage...

I really think she believes there's a guy out there that will be nice like me but also be like her ex... Her ex is a true asshole and I always was jaw on the floor amazed about how she allowed him to treat her...

I actually think she equates verbal abuse to love in some odd way... I'm anything but that...

I'm in a lot better place now then I was when the ex took off and tried to use me as a backup plan...

Stronger and smarter I am I am...

WB


The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time...

James Taylor


Posts: 5969 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: A better place
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 4:01 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Those "reasons" don't wash with me. They are so superficial. My guess, just my gut reaction, is there is something much deeper going on than how you "dress" or a PDA. Those are things that, even if they do bother her, can be discussed as two adults.

I feel guilty every time I bring up my ex in a conversation, and purposefully stop myself. Even if you have been together for awhile, at some point it has to stop. You (she) have a different life now.

I'm sorry this happened. Totally vent in here.

She sounds very shallow, or still in love with her ex. Or both.


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4113 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: South
kernel
Member
Member # 27035
Default  Posted: 4:02 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

So were these the shorts or what?


"On particularly rough days when I'm sure I can't possibly endure, I like to remind myself that my track record for getting through bad days so far is 100% - and that's pretty good."

Posts: 5058 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Midwest
persevere
Member
Member # 31468
Default  Posted: 4:15 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

I'm sorry to hear this, but you're handling it well. Vent away my friend.

I may be joining you soon, BF and I are having a talk this weekend.

And, breaking up by text, really? Conflict avoidant much? That's just wrong.

Take care WB.


Me: BW-44
Him: XWH-44
Together 9 yrs
DDays: 1/10/2011
Status: Divorced 4/27/11

Above all, be the heroine, not the victim. - Nora Ephron

It is our choices...that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities.
- J. K. Rowling


Posts: 4471 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: Texas
wonderingbull
Member
Member # 14833
Default  Posted: 4:21 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Oh no... Not those shorts...

They are dry clean only 100% cotton that ran me a cool $80.00

I don't know if she's really "in love" with her exh or is she's "in love" with the thought of what could have been if he just hadn't been such an asshole... Either way...

It's not my baggage and I'm not responsible for it...

It's time for happy hour!...
Will check in later...

WB


The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time...

James Taylor


Posts: 5969 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: A better place
foxglove
Member
Member # 21791
Default  Posted: 4:30 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

WB,

I'm so sorry. The speed of the break up is breath taking.

And, break up by text? What is she a 12 year old?

Her reasons for splitting with you are very superficial. I have a feeling that you may hear from her again. You may want to prepare yourself for that possibility.

(((WB)))

[This message edited by foxglove at 4:30 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)]


Me (BS)47
XH (WS)53
Married 21 years
Divorced 2/19/07
Two sons 21 and 23 in college

Posts: 1452 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Northern Michigan
CharlieFoxtrot
Member
Member # 38010
Default  Posted: 5:51 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

WB, I admire your handling of this all! I hope you enjoy your friends and happy hour, I'm sure someone who appreciates Paul McCartney and shorts will be glad to accompany you! As a matter of fact, make shorts a requirement for the ticket

Have fun tonight, and as the anger resolves remember what a douche move it is to break up by text, at any age. You are worthy of so much more respect than that! NC is your best friend, let her wallow in it.


Weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning.

Posts: 505 | Registered: Jan 2013
Helen of Troy
Member
Member # 26419
Default  Posted: 7:04 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

I'm amazed on how you seem to be handling this.

Posts: 4693 | Registered: Dec 2009
Sad in AZ
Member
Member # 24239
Default  Posted: 7:28 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

You'll make yourself crazy trying to figure out the whys. I hope you breeze through the cycles and can look back on this as just a ripple in your life.


I solemnly swear that I am up to no good.

Posts: 20031 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Upstate NY
MyVoice
Member
Member # 35695
Default  Posted: 7:54 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

I'm with those that loved reading about your relationship felt like we got to watch it grow with joy. I'm so sorry she repaid your wonderful ways like this, silly silly woman.

Big hugs from me XXXX


Me:BW 46, Him:WH 50
two kids DD14 and DS17
Married 26 years
OW 28, crew member (he was the ships captain)
"People are formed by their actions, not their ideals" unknown

Posts: 470 | Registered: May 2012 | From: Australia
Williesmom
Member
Member # 22870
Default  Posted: 8:02 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

((Wb))

Sounds like she has no idea what she wants.


You can stuff your sorries in a sack, mister. -George Costanza
There is a special place in hell for women who don't help other women. - Madeleine Albright

Posts: 7564 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Western PA
suckstobeme
Member
Member # 30853
Default  Posted: 8:29 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

I'm sorry. All I can say is that she sounds like one fucked up woman. Even though it hurts, it's good that someone toxic and emotionally stupid like that is out of your life. She doesn't deserve to be there.


BW - me
ExWH - "that one"
D - 2011
You get what you put in, and people get what they deserve.
Hard as it may be, try to never give the OP any of your power or head space.

Posts: 2766 | Registered: Jan 2011
thyme2go
Member
Member # 12908
Default  Posted: 8:34 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

A few minutes after that I got a breakup text!!!!!

I did not realize she was still in Junior High...


BH - no longer 48
3 DD's - (27, 24 and 17)
Divorced on 8/6/09

Posts: 9176 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: Eastern Washington
thyme2go
Member
Member # 12908
Default  Posted: 8:36 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

...and, I have to wonder if her ex is not back in the picture. This seems all to similar as to why I am a member here.


BH - no longer 48
3 DD's - (27, 24 and 17)
Divorced on 8/6/09

Posts: 9176 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: Eastern Washington
gahurts
Member
Member # 33699
Default  Posted: 8:43 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

WB. Just want to add my condolences but I do think you are better off. There were a few times I thought that something did not sound right based on your posts but this takes the cake. Of course $80 per pair for shorts - that would be a red flag for me but I'm a cheap SOB

Hang in there and vent to us. I know you will pass through this. I have really enjoyed reading how you've handled the ups and the downs. (((WB)


"Strength does not come from physical capacity. It comes from an indominable will" - Mahatma Gandi

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - Aubrie


Posts: 3406 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Georgia
FaithFool
Member
Member # 20150
Default  Posted: 8:47 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

Aw man, this woman sounds like a nutjob. They're so good at disguising aren't they?

Gah.

Onward. You will lovelovelove McCartney. Wish I was going!


DDay: June 15, 2008
Mistakenly married Mr. Superfreak
20 years of OWs, WTF?
Divorced Dec 26, 2011
"Life is a shipwreck, but we must not forget
to sing in the lifeboats". -- Voltaire

Posts: 17341 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: Canada
wildbananas
Member
Member # 10552
Default  Posted: 9:14 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

When I saw the ttile of your thread, I said "Oh no..." out loud. Followed by "What the actual fuck?"

I'm afraid I'm with t2g. My first thought was there's gotta be someone else. Those are pretty freaking lame reasons. And a break up by text? Srsly?

I'm super sorry this happened. Vent away and yes... it's her loss.

(((((WB)))))

(The other WB)


Travel light, live light, spread the light, be the light. ~ Yogi Bhajan

Posts: 15383 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: Now an AZ girl
really trying
Member
Member # 5311
Default  Posted: 11:15 PM, May 2nd (Thursday)

sure didn't see this coming. I'm so sorry (((WB)))


Me: late 40's
XH: A parasite and that might be a compliment
My S-23, Our D-15
Married 5/93 D-Day: 11/18/03
Divorced 5/19/08

The future's so bright - I got to wear shades

Plant Seeds of Kindness


Posts: 10391 | Registered: Sep 2004 | From: California
gma56
Member
Member # 19595
Default  Posted: 12:33 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

Well damn WB. I'm with the others...a text ??? It's not like you are long distance. It does seem very 7th grade behavior and also a big coward.

I've been rejected by the last three men (they broke off the relationship with me)in my life and I now know I will survive and keep moving forward. You will too.

I have a feeling she will be stuck on her XH for the rest of her life. What a waste of time.

In spite of her, it sounds as if you are ready to take the next steps in yur life and just maybe that will include a special person.

Keep just being WB and who knows where life will take you !We're on a journey !
Hugs
Gma


BW-Divorced
It's my life now, my choices, my mistakes to make and my victories to celebrate. His choices made me free of liars and betrayers in my life. That is priceless.

Posts: 20368 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Half way to where I want to be.
hexed
Member
Member # 19258
Default  Posted: 12:39 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

WB

I am sorry that you're dealing with a break up. It seems like you're doing it with the dignity, good humor and self awareness that you've had for the duration of the relationship.

KD is losing a good thing. And WTH-- a text break up after all this time. Uggg

Glad you enjoyed Fleetwood Mac. Love them!

Lots of good thoughts for you tonight.


But that's just a lot of water
Underneath a bridge I burned
And there's no use in backtracking
Around corners I have turned

“Many of us crucify ourselves between two thieves - regret for the past and fear of the future.” -foulton oursler


Posts: 8439 | Registered: Apr 2008
wonderingbull
Member
Member # 14833
Default  Posted: 4:51 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

Thank you everyone...

I made through the night... Had a great evening with my friends and am ready for another NB....

This experience was one of the oddest things I've been through....

I'm fortunate I didn't have too much invested in the relationship... We had a hell of a time while we were together.... When I look back I'll have fond memories but I'll also be on the look out for people who have unresolved issues....

As to her having her ex pop back into her life... I think not...

This really is about her relationship with her grand daughter...

For some back up, her ex completely and totally dominated and verbally abused her son... She's never really forgiven herself for staying married to her ex because of the bullshit her son endured...

Her relationship with her grand daughter is the main driving force in her life... The mother has been throwing a lot of bullshit her way and she's been pretty freaked out about it...

I truly believe that she viewed me as being expendable... The mother of her grand daughter was giving her shit about having a "boyfriend" and her grand daughter thought I was taking away time from her...

Thinking about it... This whole deal is just FUBAR...

WB


The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time...

James Taylor


Posts: 5969 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: A better place
phmh
Member
Member # 34146
Default  Posted: 5:19 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

(((WB)))

You are handling this so well. I think in time you will realize that you dodged a huge bullet. There was a ton of her behavior that had been rationalized over the course of the relationship. Proof that neither age nor education makes one mature!

The incident where she hung up the phone on you comes to mind. That's unexcusable behavior in my book, and a very huge sign for how someone deals with conflict or when they don't get their way. As in, I'm not at all shocked that someone who does this would think that a text break-up was a good idea.

I'm glad, however, that you had so many good memories with her, and this was a wonderful, happy time in your life. I look forward to reading about your future adventures, as I think life has much more in store for you!!!


Me: BW, divorced, now fabulous and happy!

Married: 11 years, no kids

The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. -Michelangelo


Posts: 3318 | Registered: Dec 2011
kernel
Member
Member # 27035
Default  Posted: 5:42 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

slight t/j - FUBAR! lol - haven't seen that in a while! - end t/j


"On particularly rough days when I'm sure I can't possibly endure, I like to remind myself that my track record for getting through bad days so far is 100% - and that's pretty good."

Posts: 5058 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Midwest
ajsmom
Member
Member # 17460
Default  Posted: 6:36 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

Sorry, a little late to the party.

If you recall, when you mentioned her referencing her X all the time, I mentioned my SIL who does that ALL the time as well in your thread. I don't think there is a time when we've been together when Mark's name hasn't come up.

I KNOW it grates on my brother - that he is and will always be the second fiddle to the man who divorced HER. He's starting to eye roll now when his name comes up, which tells me something.

I truly believe one day my bro will snap and it could be the decisive moment in their marriage. It truly saddens me.

Being a lifelong Mac fan myself (best band evar), I too think the songs took her back to perhaps the good, pre-NPD days of her first marriage. My guess is that and the GD issues, especially seeing as how she's being told you are somehow in the middle of her being able to spend time with her were probably the catalyst for this.

Whatthehellever.

The shorts and texting things are so freaking middle school, I struggle to comment on them.

I'll be honest - the EX thing does have me a bit worried, though I can't remember how amicable their relationship is. I know with my SIL with grown children and grand kids, her X is at EVERYTHING and due to her kids being complete f-up's, they speak frequently.

The excuses behind the reasons perhaps?

Maybe so, but I know you know you'll probably never really know the true reason. If she has such a hard time communicating things to you, especially the thought that she's even contemplating a break-up, you know you're much better off without her.

AJ's MOM


Fidelity isn't a feeling...it's a choice.

"Truth has no special time of its own. Its hour is now - always." - Albert Schweitzer
____________________________________________
Me: BW - Him: 200+ # tumor removed 7/09
DS - 31 - Yikes!


Posts: 21041 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: Been Through Hell...On My Way Back
wonderingbull
Member
Member # 14833
Default  Posted: 8:15 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

but I know you know you'll probably never really know the true reason

AJ... You're completely right with that... I'll never really know the reasons for her actions...

I pretty much learned to ignore the comments about her ex... I'm sure I would have gotten to the eye rolling point at some time in the future...

I actually believed she'd eventually stop mentioning his name but she never even slowed down a bit...

I brought it up a few times and she said she was with him for 25 years and that is the only reference she had... I told her that I didn't bring up my ex's name and she dismissed it with a "so?"

Hey, it was fun while it lasted... I'd say overall it was a good thing for me... I learned a lot and we went on some fun trips together... I learned not to overlook issues... It reinforced my knowledge that in life sometimes there is simply an end to relationships and I can't do anything about it...

I know I'll miss her companionship in many ways but I won't go back...

We almost made it 9 months...

Now, I need to find someone to go to Paul McCartney...

WB


The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time...

James Taylor


Posts: 5969 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: A better place
wildbananas
Member
Member # 10552
Default  Posted: 9:51 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

Me me me!


Travel light, live light, spread the light, be the light. ~ Yogi Bhajan

Posts: 15383 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: Now an AZ girl
stretch13
Member
Member # 26894
Default  Posted: 11:33 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

i like how a 63 year-old, uptight pediatrician concerned about her professional reputation is calling out and breaking up with her immature, shorts-wearing, pda-pushing "young man".....by text.

irony is fun to chew on. like a now and later.


http://www.facebook.com/hardheadpress
http://www.amazon.com/Eli-Ely-Ezekiel-Tyrus/dp/0986042900/

http://hardheadpress.com/

life must be rich and full of loving--it's no good otherwise, no good at all, for anyone - j. kerouac


Posts: 3929 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: east coast
wonderingbull
Member
Member # 14833
Default  Posted: 11:55 AM, May 3rd (Friday)

i like how a 63 year-old, uptight pediatrician concerned about her professional reputation is calling out and breaking up with her immature, shorts-wearing, pda-pushing "young man".....by text.

I hadn't even thought about the irony of that!....

WB


The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time...

James Taylor


Posts: 5969 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: A better place
hexed
Member
Member # 19258
Default  Posted: 12:09 PM, May 3rd (Friday)

Paul McCartney -- I'm in!

Yeah -- the text thing....I'm still flabbergasted by that. I'm glad that you're doing OK today.


But that's just a lot of water
Underneath a bridge I burned
And there's no use in backtracking
Around corners I have turned

“Many of us crucify ourselves between two thieves - regret for the past and fear of the future.” -foulton oursler


Posts: 8439 | Registered: Apr 2008
turned123
Member
Member # 33663
Default  Posted: 12:23 PM, May 3rd (Friday)

WB I hope this is all water under the bridge for you and it stays easy! Enjoy the show! Enjoy your friends! and enjoy waking up every day!


me BS 48
her WW 45
married 15 years
divorced
3 wonderful but hurt kids

Posts: 334 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: milwaukee
wonderingbull
Member
Member # 14833
Default  Posted: 1:04 PM, May 3rd (Friday)

Ya know... I'm no spring chicken at 53 and I understand we all have issues that adults have but KD doesn't just have "issues" she has "ISSUES"...

I put up with them because I loved the good things about her...

I don't really know who she expects to find that is going to just "fit in" to her world and deal with her ISSUES... Especially at 63...

I was amazed at the way she was so black/white... Her viewpoint, idea or taste is the only right and everyone else is wrong...

There were times I really held my tongue because I knew she'd flip out... There never was any other way than her way...

The next dude will have the same experience I did... He won't stand a chance compared to her ex...

My friends are pissed she did the breakup by text deal... They all couldn't fucking believe it... I introduced her to my unbelievably huge circle of friends and they all liked her a lot but they thought this deal was just crazy...

My friends are all pretty protective of me since the ex's A and the fallout from years ago so when I actually started dating someone they were excited for me... She was around them and they trusted her so they are not happy at all about her treatment of me...

Hell, I'm not pleased with her treatment of me....

But for me it's onward and upward...

WB


The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time...

James Taylor


Posts: 5969 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: A better place
RiotGrrrl
Member
Member # 9046
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, May 3rd (Friday)

Sorry to hear this but glad you are handling it so well. Onward and upward indeed!

RG


Me: BS (38)
Him: WS (40)
Married: Six years, D Day 11/8/05
Divorce final: Nov 06
Two gorgeous sons: 10 and 8

Posts: 1045 | Registered: Dec 2005 | From: KY
GabyBaby
Member
Member # 26928
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, May 3rd (Friday)

First, I was sorry to read your post. You sounded really happy with KD.

Second, at our/your age, a ten year gap isnt anything to really flip out over.
I'm wondering (since I dont know what either of you look like) if her 63 looks older and your 53 looks younger...making the age gap look bigger than it is. If she's vain in that way (and it sounds like the age difference did bug her to some degree) the way you look together probably didnt stroke her ego enough.
Either way, it sounds like you dodged a bullet.

Oh before I forget: How DARE you wear pressed shorts to a concert in 85 degree weather?! (The last Fleetwood Mac concert I went to a few years ago, pretty much everyone was in jeans and tee-shirts). How "immature" of you.

(Insert eye-roll here)

[This message edited by GabyBaby at 2:02 PM, May 3rd (Friday)]


Me - 40s
SorryInSac - WH#2 - 40s. DDay 7/12/14
Married 4, together 7yrs total
Status - R looks possible..

DD(21), DS(18, PDD-NOS)
6 Furkids

WXH (serial cheater, 12+ OW)
Legally married 18yrs, together 16.5yrs

I edit often for clarity.


Posts: 6369 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: California
hexed
Member
Member # 19258
Default  Posted: 2:17 PM, May 3rd (Friday)

Hell, I'm not pleased with her treatment of me....

this is a lesson for everyone - if someone isn't treating you well you do not have to accept it. I know KD is the one who did the breaking up but you clearly have your head in the right place.

I was so stunned by the text break up that I missed the shorts thing. Seriously what else would you where? I'm impressed they were ironed. I wouldn't have bothered with that. Good on ya.


But that's just a lot of water
Underneath a bridge I burned
And there's no use in backtracking
Around corners I have turned

“Many of us crucify ourselves between two thieves - regret for the past and fear of the future.” -foulton oursler


Posts: 8439 | Registered: Apr 2008
wonderingbull
Member
Member # 14833
Default  Posted: 2:30 PM, May 3rd (Friday)

Gaby...

She doesn't look her age... I'd say she looks a little older than me but not 10 years....

Truthfully, I think her reasons for breaking up are actually excuses... I believe she has a "perfect" image of a guy in her mind and it's a combination of her ex husband and not me ...

I think she wants some trophy kind of guy that will make her ex squirm... I don't make him squirm... I've known him for decades... He's a dick...

Oh and on the Fleetwood Mac show... I actually was one of the best dressed people there...

WB


The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time...

James Taylor


Posts: 5969 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: A better place
wonderingbull
Member
Member # 14833
Default  Posted: 2:48 PM, May 3rd (Friday)

Hexed...

Now that I've had a little time to digest all this I really think the shorts are an excuse...

I really think that she's still so hung up on her ex that she wants to "gig" him in some way... I obviously don't fit that bill for her...

I'm nothing like her ex... I'm just me... I'm not a "doctor" or "lawyer"... I'm a geologist... All she's ever been married to or dated is doctors or lawyers... I'm just not vain enough for her I guess..

Looking back on the relationship... It was good at the time and then when it wasn't for her she went away...

I'm confident I can find a new fun companion to do things with... Till then... I've got my friends...

WB


The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time...

James Taylor


Posts: 5969 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: A better place
macakipa
Member
Member # 33735
Default  Posted: 6:29 PM, May 3rd (Friday)

Now, I need to find someone to go to Paul McCartney...

< macakipa is jumping up and down raising her hand...heck both hands! >

I'm confident I can find a new fun companion to do things with... Till then... I've got my friends...

Perfect. You have confidence and in the wise words of Willie Wonka, "Confidence is key.".


M -25 years, T - 31 years, 4 children
Dday October 8, 2011 - Multiple PAs and ONs
Divorced 1-8-13
"When you give a lot of importance to someone in your life, you lose your importance in their life."

Posts: 952 | Registered: Oct 2011
luv2swim
Member
Member # 13154
Default  Posted: 3:53 AM, May 4th (Saturday)

wb - It sounds like you have been spared!

And too, you have good memories of your time with this women.

Much to be grateful for, yes?

[This message edited by luv2swim at 7:41 AM, May 4th (Saturday)]


Me: BS
Him: NPD WS
Married 24 years
incredible kids
D day: 2006 ... he left to live with OW.
Divorced: 2009
WS + OW: Married 2011

Posts: 351 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: US
exhausted lady
Member
Member # 30217
Default  Posted: 10:43 AM, May 4th (Saturday)

(((WB)))
Sorry to hear that things went south. I feel like I've gotten to know you through this forum, and dude.....you deserve better. And, better is out there. You just keep on being YOU and I'll bet "better" comes along when the time is right.

You've got some good memories that were made during this - hold onto the good memories and let them give you some smiles. You probably also learned a few things as well - hang onto that too.

I just wanted to let you know that I'm sending good mojo your direction...and lots of hugs too.

Dating at this age is somewhat daunting, but I think you're up to the challenge.


Sometimes the hardest part of finally seeing through someone is accepting what you see...

God grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot change, the courage to
change the one I can, and the wisdom to know it's me.
-Reinhold Neibuhr


Posts: 3168 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: Colorado
IrishLass518
Member
Member # 34373
Default  Posted: 1:53 PM, May 5th (Sunday)

So sorry Wondering, I firmly believe that everything happens for a reason and we may never know the reason but it was there. From what I am reading here, this wasn't the best place for you. Being compared too and used to make someone else 'squirm', that is not someone who appreciates YOU. Not being able to voice your thoughts, tastes, feelings because they don't mesh with hers, YOU are not being valued.
You deserve better than this, you are worth it.


Me: 46 BS Divorced
Him: 45 Married OW
DDay: 07/04/2008
Divorced: 06/15/2011
5 kids: IrishLass 27,IrishLad 25, IrishLass 23, IrishLad 21 and IrishLad 12
"You can't run from trouble..there ain't no place that far"

Posts: 1728 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: WA
gardenparty
Member
Member # 12050
Default  Posted: 7:01 PM, May 6th (Monday)

ah hugs WB. I have been so proud of hearing about how you have handled all the issues of this relationship and actually modelled some of my behaviour after yours. I hope that your friends hold you closer than ever and support you through this.


divorced!

Posts: 2665 | Registered: Sep 2006 | From: newfoundland
InnerLight
Member
Member # 19946
Default  Posted: 9:01 PM, May 6th (Monday)

Sorry to hear this WB. What a shock. I'm glad you had a great time, but I imagine hearing her go on and on about her X was tiresome. You are free of that thank god.

Hugs to you ((((wb))))


BS, age 53, d-day 6-2-08, divorced after 17 years and 20 together. dating again, living in the sticks with a cat. It's taking a long time to create new dreams and a new life but it is slowly coming together.

Posts: 5798 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Rural California
Topic Posts: 82