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User Topic: Abbondad Part II...
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 9:43 AM, May 16th (Thursday)

Thanks for your support, friends, and for sticking with me. The site continues to be my salvation.

I am beginning this new thread since my situation has finally turned a corner (wife moved out). And because, to be honest, I am embarrassed by the length of my previous thread.

My wife took a carload of stuff to the apt. I am about to do the same.

I want to shift the focus of my new thread to beginning and maintaining the 180 and limited NC. ("Limited" of course because of the children.)

I failed miserably at both during our first separation, and it resulted in worse hell for me. I am bound and determined not to repeat this mistake so I can move on without her.

I must detach, as so many have implored me in the past. It is the only route to mental health as well as to an eventual (yes, eventual--way down the line, believe me) new relationship with someone else.

I know this topic--180 and NC--has been discussed forever on the site. But of course that is precisely because it is so essential to surviving infidelity.

Question 1: I know there is no "rule" for this and no stock answer, but do I detach, 180, and limited NC in anger or with "love"? Not "love" as in "I love you." But I read in Codependent No More about "detaching lovingly." That this is the best approach for oneself.

I still love her of course, but I am also angry--furious. But I do not want this to be apparent in any way in front of the children or even over the phone, email, and text. I do not want to constantly be angry, as I feel this poisons my mind. I want to reach a state of indifference to her and her issues.

2) the "kids and finances rule." My question may seem naive, but should I tell her or just do it? I don't really care about her response, since I know either approach will be met with anger from her. But this is about me, not her. And of course the children. Again, I don't want anger from me or from her to manifest in front of the kids, whether they are with her or with me. I guess this is a no-win question, huh?

But if anyone has gone with either approach, I'd like to hear your thoughts.

3). The big one for me: resisting my deeply-entrenched desire to care for her. To "do" for her, as I have done all these years. I just know that once the dust settles, she will be calling and texting seeking comfort, beyond child-related things, and other "husband perks" even when we are divorced and not just separated.

I don't want to tell her to go to hell, or even say angrily, "That's your problem, do it yourself." (Even though I will be thinking this.). Again, not because of her but for the kids. There just can't be any overt animosity in the air for them.

4) I feel like I am at a CODA meeting, but I have to say, "I am addicted to my wife--or at least my marriage." The addiction, the cycle, the drama triangle, must stop. Any suggestions on how to resist calling/texting? (This feels pathetic; for god's sake, I am 46 years old!)

I will have other questions along the way, but this covers my concerns for now. I just know that once she sees how dramatically my demeanor will change, she will become angry, defensive, go 180 right back at me, or pout, or blame. Or worse, tell me how much she loves me. This is the most powerful weapon in her arsenal.

I need some advice on how to deal with the above.

Thank you!


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
landabear
Member
Member # 15046
Default  Posted: 9:50 AM, May 16th (Thursday)

The big one for me: resisting my deeply-entrenched desire to care for her. To "do" for her, as I have done all these years. I just know that once the dust settles, she will be calling and texting seeking comfort, beyond child-related things, and other "husband perks" even when we are divorced and not just separated.

After the dust settles, huh?

I can tell you that HELPING HER MOVE OUT qualifies as "something that is no longer in my job description", so make that car load you are probably already on your way over with right now the last one.

As for the rest of the NC with kids and finances, the best thing I did was implement an "email only" communication plan. If it's not emergent - and I mean like hey, the kid could use one of our kidneys, head to the hospital - then it's discussed via email.

And within that parameter, I only responded to emails and parts of the emails that were kid and finances related.

So if it was "hey, kid #1s practice time changed, why don't we get back together?"

The answer is "I will get Kid #1 to their new practice time".

End. Of. Email.

Texting is for urgent situations; everything else goes through email.

I must detach, as so many have implored me in the past. It is the only route to mental health as well as to an eventual (yes, eventual--way down the line, believe me) new relationship with someone else.

This comes down to the chicken-or-the-egg, but I think that detaching comes *after* you have done NC for a while. Gives you some breathing room, then healing can begin.

It will feel like an ill-fitting shoe at first, but eventually it starts to feel better.


BS
Divorced: March 2006
Married to a wonderful, FAITHFUL man: October 2009

Posts: 741 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Midwest
damncutekitty
Member
Member # 5929
Default  Posted: 10:01 AM, May 16th (Thursday)

3). The big one for me: resisting my deeply-entrenched desire to care for her. To "do" for her, as I have done all these years.

Give it time, eventually you will find it pleasant not having to cater to her constant demands. I had a really hard time detaching from my XH. I would lie awake at night worrying that he was going to burn his shirts with the iron. Eventually I realized it was AWESOME not having to spend one evening a week with a pile of his ironing.

You don't have to be mean about it. But remember that she needs to learn to do for herself just as much as you need to learn to not do things for her.

4) I feel like I am at a CODA meeting, but I have to say, "I am addicted to my wife--or at least my marriage."

Try not to think of it that way. You were married a long time. You cared for her and being part of a marriage was part of your normal routine. It will take time to adjust to your "new normal". This does not make you addicted or a victim. It makes you human.


Keep calm and carry on.

Posts: 49482 | Registered: Nov 2004 | From: Minneapolis
pjkmkjm23
Member
Member # 35778
Default  Posted: 10:03 AM, May 16th (Thursday)

No you definitely don't tell her you're doing 180. You do demand that any necessary contact be via email. It doesn't matter if she likes it or not. Her M is crumbling....largely by her choices...and she NEEDS to learn what life for her will be like now that she 'fired' you as her H....and this is for your own health and safety too. Document everything!

Posts: 305 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Canada
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 10:33 AM, May 16th (Thursday)

1: I know there is no "rule" for this and no stock answer, but do I detach, 180, and limited NC in anger or with "love"?
The goal is to reach indifference. In the beginning with the 180, imo, it's less "this is how you do it" and more "do it however you can". If it takes anger then use it, if it takes popping a rubberband on your wrist use it. Change your ringtone on your phone so when your WW calls it plays "Bitches aint shit" by Dr. Dre or change the ringtone to a donkey call anything to snap your mind into defensive mode until it becomes a natural thing. The Dr. Dre thing is crass but I used to play that in the car on the way home from work, you do what you have to man. After the first few weeks of successfully fighting the urge to reach out or respond it gets easier. For me I kept the following statement in my head on repeat for weeks. It was the only thing that kept me from caving and reaching out:

My WW fucked her married coworker for 3 yrs behind my back and didn't tell me.

You won't be angry all the time, the roller coaster is still in effect which is why you use whatever you can to give yourself strength to maintain NC and the 180 until you reach indifference.


2) the "kids and finances rule." My question may seem naive, but should I tell her or just do it?
Just do it. You don't need to tell her anything. She will get the message. The less contact the better.


3). The big one for me: resisting my deeply-entrenched desire to care for her. To "do" for her, as I have done all these years.
As other stated she fired you from the husband role. She must fend for herself just as you must fend for yourself now. She took care of herself during the A so she is a capable adult. She will be fine. It's okay to say NO. It's gets easier the more you say it. No need for debate you just say no and move on. The more time you spend away from her the more reality sinks in and it gets easier. She is the drug you are withdrawing from and cold turkey is the best way to do it. Yes she is going to reach out after a bit but that's why you detach NOW so when she does you have some distance and remember the hell you just went through with her and you won't want to go through that again.

4) Any suggestions on how to resist calling/texting? (This feels pathetic; for god's sake, I am 46 years old!)

Stay busy. Go out and do something. Get that list of things to do out and start working on it. Start focusing on what you will do when your semester off from teaching is up. Go meet some new people or catch up with old friends. Keep going to IC. The more time you invest in keeping busy, working on yourself, making new memories with your kids, and genuinely rediscovering yourself is what keeps you from reaching out to her. It's like reaching critical mass. You just keep building and working at detachment until you hit that sweet spot, the reaction is self sustaining, and you have reached the point of critical mass or more accurately indifference. Yes it is hard in the beginning and it takes time but it is SO worth it.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 10:39 AM, May 16th (Thursday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1910 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
veritas
Member
Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 11:59 AM, May 16th (Thursday)

You just do it; it only becomes easier with time and persistence. It's not going to be easy; it's change, and change is never easy, especially when it's something that you didn't want to happen.

And then that day comes when you get a text at 6:30 AM saying that s/he doesn't know what s/he did to deserve you, but you are the best thing that happened in his/her life ever. And since it's four years later instead of feeling stabbed through the heart, or hopeful, or angry, you feel a little bit sad, or even some sympathy, but you know better than to reach back at all.

I am very, very happy to see that you have come to a place of action than one of reaction. It's not a comfortable place now; but it will ultimately be one in the future.


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10168 | Registered: Feb 2004
ButterflyGirl
Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 12:17 PM, May 16th (Thursday)

I still love her of course, but I am also angry--furious. But I do not want this to be apparent in any way in front of the children or even over the phone, email, and text. I do not want to constantly be angry, as I feel this poisons my mind.

I don't think you respond with anger or love, just the facts. Treat her like an incompetent co-worker. You wouldn't be rude or curse them out or bring emotions into it, just state the issues. And you wouldn't tell them you aren't gonna get emotional, you just wouldn't.. And this is MUCH easier when you limit it to email. You can have time to respond properly instead of just accidentally letting them emotions out like you might in a phone call or seeing her face to face.. Paper trail helps immensely as well.

A little example for you:

STBX: "What the hell? I don't have a pension plan with work. Now I have to spend more money on lawyers bitch."

Me: Ignore, thinking, "Yes you do dipshit. If you had disclosed it in the first place you wouldn't have this problem."

STBX: "Well what the fuck? Now I have to go see my lawyer today, so you pick up the fucking kids from school bitch."

Me: "Okay. I will pick up the kids."

See? No emotion. Just the facts. IGNORE EVERYTHING not directly related to kids or finances, and only those things that are important to respond to related to kids and finances..

Good luck! I'm so glad you are even thinking about this stuff right now

Oh, and

If it's not emergent - and I mean like hey, the kid could use one of our kidneys, head to the hospital - then it's discussed via email.

Exactly!!


xBW~ 35
Two DS~ 7-Eleven
"I've wiped the shit off. It can be wiped off you know." ~ asurvivor

Posts: 2304 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
ProbableIceCream
Member
Member # 37468
Default  Posted: 12:55 PM, May 16th (Thursday)

Abbondad,

You asked about anger or love. The eventual goal of the 180 is neither. It is indifference.


Me, 32. DD, 8. DS, 6 (deceased).

Posts: 841 | Registered: Nov 2012
realitybites
Member
Member # 6908
Default  Posted: 1:01 PM, May 16th (Thursday)

I think you helping her to move says alot right there. WHY are you helping her? She made the choice, she is a big girl....don't help her.

The very hardest part like many others have said is to stop with thinking of what she needs or is she OK or paying a bill for her or taking care of anything at all.

I would say when you start to think of anything at all that you "think" you are going to do for her you should wear a rubber band and snap it hard. Each time a thought comes up *snap* that band.

And I had to put my cell phone on silent under my then WS's name. Just so I would not rush to answer it every single time.

I agree that you need real NC from her....FOR YOU. You need to learn to be without her and it all starts by NC.


Posts: 5672 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: florida
Catwoman
Member
Member # 1330
Default  Posted: 2:54 PM, May 16th (Thursday)

Consider her in the same league with a particularly odious and devious business associate with which you must work.

Keep it all business and email only, do not respond to fishing or baiting.

Do not share emotions or opinions on anything but finances and children. Your day was "just fine." You are "just fine." It is going "just fine."

She FIRED you from the job of caring for her, so why would you want to volunteer to keep doing it gratis? Each time you are tempted to cave, tell yourself: She fired me from that job.

Treat her with cool civility and dignity. If you must converse, talk about the weather. Nothing else. She will soon get the hint.

Read my article "NC with the WS in the Healing Library. It will help.

Cat


FBS: Married 20 years, 2 daughters 25 and 22. Divorced by the grace of GOD.
D-Days: 2/23/93; 10/11/97; 3/5/03
Ex & OW Broke up 12-10
"An erection does not count as personal growth."

Posts: 29662 | Registered: Apr 2003 | From: Massachusetts
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 6:28 PM, May 16th (Thursday)

Hello, all,

Ok, quick advice needed for tonight as I begin the 180.

(I have the kids tonight.)

When we last separated and I had the kids, she would call to say goodnight to them. Even if she called my son's phone and not mine, my son or daughter would always want me to say goodnight to her.

I always would. And it usually turned into "So how are you?" Or a tearful "This is so hard," or worse, "I love you." The above would be uttered by either her or me. We seemed to take turns. It immediately sabotaged the 180, of course.

I know this seems like a trivial detail, but the devil is in the details for me in this 180 and NC, especially early on.

Again I am also thinking of the children. I have airily dismissed this in the past to the kids: "Just tell her I said goodnight, K?" But this would result in them asking, "what's wrong? Are you mad at mommy?"

And of course this breaks my heart and I could not sustain this night after night.

This and a hundred other moments like this will be coming up. If I could get some advice with this one conundrum I think I can apply the "spirit" of it in other situations as well.

I'm thinking the best approach is the simplest and most obvious: take the phone and say "Goodnight."

Jesus, this is ridiculous... I can't believe what my life has become.

Thank you in advance.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
ButterflyGirl
Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 6:42 PM, May 16th (Thursday)

If this helps, my son had a performance at school last night and kept asking for me to sit next to STBX. And I had to keep telling him no, mom and dad will both be there to support you, but mom and dad don't sit together anymore. It's about creating a new normal for them, and showing them that the new normal will be okay..

I would say don't talk to her on the phone. It gives her an "in" especially given what this has lead to in the past. I think talking to her to appease the kids will also do more damage than help. Like I said in an earlier post, it gives them false hope, and they have to learn things are different, but everything will still be okay..

Good luck..


xBW~ 35
Two DS~ 7-Eleven
"I've wiped the shit off. It can be wiped off you know." ~ asurvivor

Posts: 2304 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
Grace and Flowers
Member
Member # 34431
Default  Posted: 7:13 PM, May 16th (Thursday)

AD,
DO NOT talk to her on the phone! It's that simple. Is it about the kids or finances...no! You may THINK its about the kids, but it's not. It's about power and control.

So, before the kids EVEN HAVE THE CALL, you tell them...I've already said goodnight to mom, I don't need to speak to her on the phone. Or something to that affect. Which is a version of the truth. You have said goodnight for hopefully the final time.

If the kids don't like it, you just comfort them. Tell them mommy and daddy will only being talking via text or email for now/forever.

But don't put yourself in that position, and once again, hurt the kids in the process. Believe me when I tell you that it will hurt them far more to see mom and dad "playing nice" (fantasy), then to see reality. Reality does not have to be ugly. But it does need to be truthful.


I'm Happy, not Sad!

Posts: 1174 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: US
ExposedNiblet
Member
Member # 30803
Default  Posted: 7:28 PM, May 16th (Thursday)

Well, I think this happens to everyone at some point. It
happened to me during the Early Days. My kids were older than yours and knew the truth about the OW at the time, so my situation was a bit different.

I'm reluctant to tell you how I dealt with it because it's embarrassing to admit, but what the hell...

When XH called, I made myself really scarce - I guess you could say I hid - in the bathroom. I'd decide to have a bath just as soon as I saw who was on caller ID.

When X asked to speak to me, then the kids could truthfully say that Mom was in the bathroom. If he thought it was important enough, he'd call back and leave a message - a message I could answer by email if I thought it was important enough.

Once the water bill started getting too high, I simply told my kids I didn't want to talk to him. They understood, and more importantly XH did too, because he stopped asking shortly thereafter.

There's always some way around these things.

Stay strong...and stay off the phone.

....Nibs

[This message edited by ExposedNiblet at 7:48 PM, May 16th (Thursday)]


Divorced
Me ($39.95 plus S & H)
DS1(17), DS2(15)

Enjoying this chapter in my life.
Learning that being alone does not mean being lonely.
Discovering that where I've been is not as important as where I'm going.


Posts: 355 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Right Here, Canada
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 9:18 PM, May 16th (Thursday)

In the beginning?? I went outside when WH called or Skyped. If the kids said, "Do you want to talk to Daddy?" I would either say, "not now" or "no, thanks" or "i'll talk to him later". Or I would simply be scarce. Tell the kids, "Hang up when you are finished talking with Mommy."

2.5 years out my kids will still ask, "Do you need to talk to Dad?" I still respond with, "Not tonight".

You ARE separated and headed for divorce. Hiding this from them is NOT the goal. You have to start establishing you are their parents but not together.

Trust us when we tell you, the more you talk to her, are around her, do little things for her...the longer it will take to detach and move on. The more contact you have, the more it hurts.

It is a CHOICE on your part now. You have to choose every single moment of everyday to detach, detach, detach. I had a hard time no longer caring for EH. Not cooking for him was really hard, since I had done it for so long.

When he came into the house (the first several months he came over almost every night to see the kids) I would go to my room and close the door, or I would leave the second he got there and go work out or go shopping. I would ask him to be in his car when I got home so there was no interaction. So, he would pull out of the driveway as I would pull in.

*I* had to take control of MY healing and detachment. You ex isn't going to do it for you. You have to draw the boundaries and you have to enforce them.


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4182 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: South
VeryUncertain
Member
Member # 37845
Default  Posted: 9:52 PM, May 16th (Thursday)

#1 - Civility is your friend. No anger. Take the high road. Just think of her as a friend that has done you wrong. Be civil, cool, and collected.

I am not good at 2 & 3 so I won't even bother with advice there.

I am, however, a master at #4. I have only reached out ONCE since all this started a long time ago and I immediately regretted it. If you get the urge to reach out, do ANYTHING else. Go exercise. Play with your kids. Bargain with yourself to last an hour. If not an hour, a minute. Then go one more minute. If you can't stand it, call someone ELSE. One of my poor brothers must have said DON'T CALL HIM approximately 500 times one particularly bad night near the beginning. Eventually the urge passes. Just wait it out. You can do this. Call friend after friend after friend if you have to. People understand, especially in the beginning.

I have not done the detachment process "correctly". Even so, I am getting there. Unfortunately, it takes time, but the holy grail of indifference gets closer every day. It will for you, too. The less contact, though, the quicker you will heal. Again, I don't reach out but I do eventually respond to calls and talk about things other than kids and finances so it's pot/kettle over here but I can say without a doubt that it has slowed my healing. Luckily, my husband's douchebaggery is neverending so I'm getting there regardless.


BS (Me): 38
WH: 43
2 beautiful, precious daughters: 4 & 2
Found out early Aug. 2012, separated 2/4/13, in R (?) since 7/2013.

Posts: 164 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: MD
velveteer
Member
Member # 30997
Default  Posted: 3:50 AM, May 17th (Friday)

I am pretty detached. In fact I think once I got it, I was pretty much a poster boy for detachment. Its about what you do and how you handle each and every interaction. I was so relieved when WXW moved out and things improved dramatically almost immediately. We had and still have ongoing contact by phone, face-to-face and text/ email. Its all business though and that's because I made it that way from the start.

Oh she tried - many many times. But I just ignored it, closed it down or sometimes made it clear that I had no interest in those discussions and that the time for all of that was passed.

It pissed her off and I have no doubt that she thought at times that I was an emotionless machine. For a woman so driven by emotion this was hard for her to fathom. But for me it allowed to me to have the interaction that I felt necessary to manage things as best we could for the kids and for the S agreement etc without getting dragged into any emotional dialogue.

I also feel that what the kids need to see is civility and co-operation between the parents. They need to see that you two are able to put aside whatever differences you have in order to put their needs first. What they don't need to see is any lingering emotional attachment or co-dependent behaviour. You are modelling behaviour for them - show them the right way. No anger, no bitterness (keep that for your own time if necessary to process it all) but civil, business-like co-operation.

Part of this also extends to not helping her out all the time. This was harder for me - I was so used to being the fixer. Now the only area in which I help out is taking the kids when its her time with them if she has something that means she cannot do it - I rarely refuse this because it is extra time with my kids. I'm sure she thinks I am still helping her, but I am not - I am seeing my kids. It doesn't matter what she thinks.

You can do this AD and once you start it gets easier. It will give you the mental space to start processsing your own hurt and begin healing. Each time you do it you will feel a bit better, a bit stronger. You will feel more in control of your own life.

As for saying goodnight to her - you do not need to do this. The kids do not need confusion now - like you they will need to face the reality that mum and dad are no longer together. It is hard, but ambiguity is much worse for them. The only way for them, as for you, is through it. So start as you mean to continue. Be clear, be civil and DETACH. And support the kids as they get their own heads around the changes.

Others will have suggestiosn about how to keep away from the phone etc. I have to say that was never really my challenge - I was just so glad to see the back of her I was rarely tempted to make contact. The rest of the time I was BUSY.

Good luck and keep posting.


Divorced

Posts: 877 | Registered: Jan 2011
ImNellNow
Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 9:29 AM, May 17th (Friday)

Dad,

It seems like all your questions boil down to "how do I stay on the 180 train"? Since you obviously come to SI for support and advice, you might do what I did a few years ago and start a thread in D/S or General to check in every day about your attempts to implement the 180. I did it to be accountable somewhere and I would talk about what I did for me, when I fell off by interacting with Daffy, and other "riders" would occasionally jump in with their stories or support. I found it really helpful. (Unfortunately, I didn't save the thread!)

There's also the peace train of healing here in D/S. That may be helpful to you as well.

I'm really happy to see that you're moving forward. Good for you, Dad. I'm so proud of you!!!


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 10:33 AM, May 17th (Friday)

If your kids know that you two are separated, and that D is coming, I see nothing wrong with laying down the new rules with them.

Simply tell them Mom and I only talk to each other about you guys now. When she calls I do not want to speak with her. If they ask why you tell them that you and her have agreed that this is best, to keep from confusing them, or starting new fights. Then reassure them that you both love them more than life itself. Give great big hugs. BUT DO NOT TALK to her. The easy way or what appears the easy way is not the best or smarter option this time.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8698 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 11:29 AM, May 17th (Friday)

slight t/j...ImNellNow..I remember that thread...it was awesome...


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling?

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7678 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 11:36 AM, May 17th (Friday)

Hi everyone,

I am very leery of this post, for I fear I will invite flaming, anger, or at best, additional frustration. But i want to take this risk, for as always I look to you for understanding as my support group--even while absorbing and appreciating your 2x4s.

My confession: my wife and I decided to separate--and to shelve divorce for now. I must be honest with you even if most of you believe I am not being honest with myself.

We thus did NOT tell the children we were divorcing. Again, we did NOT.

We told them we were separating--living apart again. They did not ask if we were divorcing. If and when they do, we will be honest: "We don't know." And this is and will be the truth. It's the best we can do. And we will follow up with assurances and love as best we can.

Our coparenting schedule is on place and they are ok with it.

We hope this will not damage them with false hope. But this is the reality: we are just not ready to take that step.

What was ultimately preeminent to both of us is that we must separate. Immediately. For everyone's sake. And we have. And my determination to have limited NC and 180 remains.

We did not even necessarily decide to shelve divorce out of a conviction that there is a substantial chance that we will reconcile. Maybe there is a slim chance in hell that we will. Time will tell.

Again, neither she nor I are prepared. I said cuttingly in one,of my previous posts that my wife said she "is not prepared emotionally for divorce," indicating sarcastically that, well, I am.

The truth is that I just am not. I am not prepared to dismantle our life at this time. If that makes me weak for awhile longer, so be it. If it makes me a doormat for awhile longer, so be it. I just can't do it--at least right now. I need time to heal through NC and 180. Regardless of whether this heals me for divorce or reconciliation.

What this means for me: I am taking a huge risk on my mental health again. I know this. Hence my absolute resolve to NC and 180 this time. I am taking that risk.

What this means for her: if she wants to continue her affair, she will. I can't control that. She continued it while we were together and she is just as free to continue while we are apart. I am moving with the assumption that my marriage is over. I am determined to reach indifference to her actions. Will she think, ok, I can continue to cake-eat, since he backed off of divorce? Probably, at least subconsciously. But my NC and 180 should help with this. Not help her, but me.

We are two adults. We are making our decisions. But we have children, yes. And this is what is most important. So what does this mean for them. We discussed this. If we had told them we were definitely divorcing and then did not, as we both suspected would happen, then it seems to us the lesser of two evils would be to tell them the most truthful thing we could--that we were simply separating.

The false hope of telling them we were divorcing then didn't would be more damaging than telling them we were separating and then divorced. Maybe our reasoning is skewed. But it is the best we could do, as we realized we simply do not want to divorce at this time.

Again, the crucial thing is that we separate. The kids were upset, but did not have false hope--even though this is,the second time around.

I have read many members' narratives. Some mirrors ours: they separated more than once (with children), and ended up divorced. But some ended up reconciled. And some even divorced and then reconciled. I do not want to go this route--to dismantle our life through divorce, put our kids through that, only to remarry. And maybe even divorce again.

And I also have read narratives that state that divorce was approached numerous times--only to be shelved, with varying outcomes, both divorce and reconciliation.

I guess we are thinking, "it's not over till it's over." And despite everything, it is just not over. Maybe I am still deluded. Maybe she is. Quite probably we both are.

Please believe me once again when I say we are always thinking of,our children. And right now we are sure of only this--that we had to separate.

I sincerely hope for some understanding of our decision.

Thank you for continuing to care. I am so sorry to have misled you all.

I click "Post" with great trepidation.

[This message edited by Abbondad at 11:49 AM, May 17th (Friday)]


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 12:41 PM, May 17th (Friday)

So you and your WW are separated..but basically in limbo..and your kids are in limbo also.

I remember when my parents separated when I was about 7-8. They were separated for a few years before they divorced..because my mom was having an affair. I can tell you,that that 7 year old little girl pretended to be ok in front of her parents because she didn't want to cause any more problems,when clearly there were already so many problems...and that little girl prayed every.single.night."Lord,please,please,please have mommmy and daddy get back together,please I'll be really good,just please."

I said that prayer into my teens.

They never got back together.

It was Hell.

Are you in IC,Dad? You need to be..you need to get stronger..so you can lead your children out of this Hell.


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling?

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7678 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
woundedwidow
Member
Member # 36869
Default  Posted: 12:55 PM, May 17th (Friday)

Lather, rinse, repeat. Please don't continue to justify your decision with "we are always thinking of our children". You may be thinking of the children, but the two of you are still thinking of YOURSELVES first.


Be careful what you wish for the most - you may get it.

Posts: 395 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: VA
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 1:03 PM, May 17th (Friday)

Seriously?!?

You are hurting yourself and your kids over and over. Allowing her to have the best of both worlds.

Get yourself in IC, and if you are in IC then you need to either get a new one, or up your visits, and listen to the help they are trying to provide you.

You need to go back to work. You need a purpose in life, and not focus all of your energy on this F'd up relationship.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8698 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 1:04 PM, May 17th (Friday)

Then what should we have done if we do not want divorce at this time but had to separate? What would have been the best approach for the children? What?


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
Dadtryingtocope
Member
Member # 36726
Default  Posted: 1:05 PM, May 17th (Friday)

What this means for her: if she wants to continue her affair, she will. I can't control that. She continued it while we were together and she is just as free to continue while we are apart. I am moving with the assumption that my marriage is over. I am determined to reach indifference to her actions. Will she think, ok, I can continue to cake-eat, since he backed off of divorce? Probably, at least subconsciously. But my NC and 180 should help with this. Not help her, but me.

Dad - as a fellow "Dad" and my close friends can tell you here, I went from D-Day to D in about 9 months. Did I want to get D after D-day - No. I wanted to R. But while she told me it was best for us to R, she continued with the A. The same thing you are living with. She will cake eat. Now I am one month past D and I am still not at indifference. But with the D in place I am moving towards that. I feel moving towards it much better than if I had just stayed S. Just my two cents for you.

And you will fall off the NC train. I still do it. I held everything in so tight during the D because everything I said to her resulted in threats to go to attorneys for more. Once I got my D I unloaded on her. The 7 months of bottled emotions came rushing out. In time I expect I will no longer respond. As a matter of fact most emails and texts I don't answer. But every once in awhile I get something that pushes a button and I fall off the NC train. It's okay to fall off once in awhile. Just make sure you get back on.


BH me 46
WW her 38
DDay 8-17-12
2 kids (12, 9)
Filed for D 9/14/12
Divorced 4/17/13
She - engaged 5/13 married 9/13

Posts: 557 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: PA
LonelyHusband
Member
Member # 34145
Default  Posted: 1:08 PM, May 17th (Friday)

The false hope of telling them we were divorcing then didn't would be more damaging than telling them we were separating and then divorced.

One day you'll read this and realise just how ridiculous it sounds. It's up there any of the cliches a WS will come out with.

It's your kids I feel sorry for. Now YOU are using them as an excuse and protesting that your actions and your wife's are in their interests. The poor little buggers are the victims in this sorry game the two of you are playing whilst both of you are saying it's all for them. It's tragic.


BS ( me) 41
fWS (OktoberMest) 35
D day #1 29/10/2011, D day #2 15/112011, D day #3 15/03/2012
Reconciling.
“It’s better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all”, is inadequate consolation when you vacuum up a child's hamster'

Posts: 1290 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: UK
ButterflyGirl
Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 1:17 PM, May 17th (Friday)

What would have been the best approach for the children?

I don't think people are wondering that right now as much as hoping that you would WANT a divorce from her.. The suggestions for IC and to gain strength are so you can decide correctly here.. Her emotional health? Who cares?? She is NOT thinking of or considering yours. Do what YOU need to do for you and your kids..


xBW~ 35
Two DS~ 7-Eleven
"I've wiped the shit off. It can be wiped off you know." ~ asurvivor

Posts: 2304 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 1:18 PM, May 17th (Friday)

I will stop posting on the site until there is final resolution one way or another: D or R. I am sorry to take up so much of everyone's time and I thank you for everything. (Not said sarcastically). I wish everyone the best in their own struggles.

[This message edited by Abbondad at 1:21 PM, May 17th (Friday)]


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 1:23 PM, May 17th (Friday)

Hi Abbondad,

I tolerated a lot of crap from my FWW during the period when we were "not divorcing", but I cannot imagine being in a mode of not divorcing while she were still making up her mind about her OM, or using me as a plan B in case things with the OM did not work out.

This is not a risk free gambit on your part, in addition to the disruption and uncertainity to your kids.

Since there is no legal separation here in Florida, you could (will?) be on the hook for debts incurred by your WW. Should she become injured and unable to work you may find yourself on the hook for significant spousal support in Florida.

Divorce takes months to process and complete, and can be stopped at anytime with concurence of both parties. With your present course you are simply holding yourself and children in limbo while you enable you WW to continue to do damage to herself, her relationship with her children, and to you. By choosing this lesser action, I believe that you will make an already unlikely chance to R impossible. There will simply be too much additional damage and betrayl. Many BS overcome the A crap to R. It is ususally the on-going crap after dday that kills any chance of R.

ETA: I see we cross-posted. Best wishes to you AB

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 1:24 PM, May 17th (Friday)]


FBS 54
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4133 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 1:29 PM, May 17th (Friday)

We told them we were separating--living apart again. They did not ask if we were divorcing. If and when they do, we will be honest: "We don't know." And this is and will be the truth.

It is said that the truth shall set you free. IMHO, in this case it shackles your children with an uncertain future and a limbo not of their choosing.

I get what you are trying to do by clinging to this cliffs edge with bloody fingertips. I continued to fight for my M(first) all the way through the final state supreme court ruling. I had hopes of R right up until the final custody decision.(I won at all levels) At that point she finally realized the true cost of her A, she decided to "give R a chance". I was an idiot.

The time and effort I put into fighting a non remorseful WW was wasted effort. I should have been putting the time into fixing me. I could have been a much better parent to my child and a much healthier me had I done so. Instead, blea. I let my child suffer right there along with me as I always clung to the mantra "where there's life, there's hope". In one aspect, I was right. There was/is hope. A better life did await. But because I wanted a M for my son so badly, I couldn't see that life without his toxic mother was actually better for him.

My situation was somewhat unique. She had a child from her first marriage and she thought that guaranteed her custody of our S. The court actually split the siblings.(I tried, but bio dad of then SD wanted mom to keep custody). The result? My son is set to graduate college a year from now. Good prospects ahead. My former SD, she did graduate college, but currently has 3 DUI's, is mostly unemployable and is back living with her mother.

You provide the environment for the kids. Your decisions. I would just ask, what is it about this woman that keeps pulling you back in? I get the guilt over the initial proposal and subsequent results, but really?

It's NOT your fault. She's a big girl now. All the FoO issues, all the subsequent fallout, Ok. That was then, this is now. I am not callously dismissing them and saying they have no influence on current behavior, but I am saying they can no longer be used as an excuse.

180, N/C. Get strong and do what YOU know is the right thing for your kids and for you. You know them best. We are just trying to help.

Strength brother

ETA I hope you do keep posting and reading. I am open to PM's if you would ever feel the need.

[This message edited by 5454real at 1:32 PM, May 17th (Friday)]


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2979 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
ButterflyGirl
Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 1:29 PM, May 17th (Friday)

Since there is no legal separation here in Florida, you could (will?) be on the hook for debts incurred by your WW. Should she become injured and unable to work you may find yourself on the hook for significant spousal support in Florida.

I'm in Florida too, and I agree 100%. At least get your ducks in a row and protect yourself.

Good luck Abbondad. Hugs.. Hope you find your way back..


xBW~ 35
Two DS~ 7-Eleven
"I've wiped the shit off. It can be wiped off you know." ~ asurvivor

Posts: 2304 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
survivingslowly
Member
Member # 14214
Default  Posted: 1:38 PM, May 17th (Friday)

I really don't know what all this negativity is about.

I think you did what you know to be true.

At any point when a couple separates....do we really know that it will end in divorce? I think it's a process and everyone is unique in how they go through this process.

In my case, we did separate after d day. For 1 whole year. My kids were 3, 5, and 7 at the time. We told them together. We drew up a schedule. They were sad. But the schedule and knowing that both mom and dad loved them really helped. I didn't know (at that time) if we were going to D. I just knew that we couldn't live together anymore. That's all I knew, amidst all the crazy drama and chaos. My life as I knew it had ended. I was crazy with being on the roller coaster. I would have NEVER told my kids that we were going to D unless I KNEW in my heart that it was what I was going to do.

So, I see your decision as a very reasonable one.

In my story, we did R, not D. But we went through an entire year of S, living as co-parents, using a schedule, child support etc. We acted, in every way, as if we were a D couple who were co-parenting. I did the 180 to a tee.

Hoever, in my case, he had completely left the A in every way. He was not cake-eating, so I know this makes a whole lot of difference.

You are doing what you think is best. Just make sure that you are being realistic, rather than hopeful.

I sometimes find that the responses that you get...are rather harsh. It's almost as if the posters want you to "join their camp". That makes me sad for you, b/c I know you are doing the best you can and we all forget that this is a process that takes time. Nobody SHOULD dissolve a marriage/union without due care and attention, especially when children are involved.

Btw, I am a professional mediator by trade, so for me, it was easy. I drew up the agreement when we S. He kinda knew that i was going to, so no real disagreement on his end. lol

You are doing fine Dad. Keep it up. Just make sure to keep going forward with no blinders on. Stay focused.

SS


BS-me
FWH-him

dday#1-March/07

Fully reconciled. Life is really good!!


Posts: 318 | Registered: Apr 2007
sudra
Member
Member # 30143
Default  Posted: 1:45 PM, May 17th (Friday)

I guess we are thinking, "it's not over till it's over."

No, that's what YOU'RE thinking. She's thinking how great it is to date, have boyfriend and a husband waiting in the wings until she is done dating, if that ever happens, because, honestly, why would it? I love to date and have a husband, especially now that it was done to me.

I hope you're still reading. I understand you are afraid to keep posting as we all kind of jump on you. It's just that sometimes it's easier to see what is happening for us than you, since you are in the midst of fresh emotional trauma.

You're an adult - if you can live with a cheating wife, so be it. It's your kids who are paying.

My parents nearly got divorced when I was 15. It nearly killed me, the back and forth and not knowing. I moved out as soon as I could. They stayed together, but that really didn't help at all after years of limbo.

I take it your parents never divorced, since you seem so removed the how painful this is for your kids.

[This message edited by sudra at 1:48 PM, May 17th (Friday)]


Me (BW) (55), Him(SAWH) (58)
Married 22 years, 1 son (19), 1 stepdaughter (27)
DDay #1 January 2004
DDay #2 7-27-2010 7 month EA/PA (became "engaged" to OW before he told me he wanted a divorce)
Working on R

Posts: 1495 | Registered: Nov 2010
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 1:48 PM, May 17th (Friday)

There are risks in everything we do. There are risks in the path you are choosing but it's your right to choose that path. Even if you don't post, I would suggest that you lurk and keep reading. Get really good at the 180 and NC. If you can keep it up, eventually you will be strong enough to make a decision. Also start living your life again. Get back to work and stop focusing on the shitstorm as best you can. Focus on you and your kids. Go out and have some fun. 180 and NC seems lonely but the loneliness is us forgetting that we are responsible for our own happiness. So don't sit in the house being sad for too long. Get up and go out and live your life. Give yourself permission to live and be happy again.

I get it man, I truly get it. As I said before it took me over a year to get to a point I could make a decision. I don't think it will take you that long. If you stick to the 180 and NC you will get there soon enough. Eventually the NC let's you see exactly what you have been dealing with for so long.

ATS brougth up a good point about the debt. My WW stopped her A but resorted to spending money like crazy to fill the void. I got lucky as we each took responsibility for our own debt in our agreement. Make sure you seperate finances and bills and such. You don't want to end up with a several thousand water, power, or credit card bill or whatever in your name 6 months or a year down the road. When and if the collectors come calling you want to make sure you aren't responsible if at all possible. Protect yourself financially like making sure you have seperate accounts and no joint credit cards etc. Use this time to truly get some distance and detach. I wish you the best.

ETA: I commend you for continuing to be honest in your posts about your situation and your feelings. When I was in the space you are in I couldn't do it and left the site to return later. Do what you can when you can. This place really is a good place to figure out how to survive infidelity. For some of us it just takes/took a little longer, myself included. So continue moving forward and don't look back. Focus on the 180 and detaching.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 1:54 PM, May 17th (Friday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1910 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
ButterflyGirl
Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 1:58 PM, May 17th (Friday)

I drew up the agreement when we S.

That's what's wrong with Florida. There is no legal separation. Just want to add, she could *legally* get a credit card and max it with vacations and dinners, etc., with this clown, and you WILL owe half of it.. It would be nice to think she would never do that, but what else has she done you wouldn't have imagined her doing?


xBW~ 35
Two DS~ 7-Eleven
"I've wiped the shit off. It can be wiped off you know." ~ asurvivor

Posts: 2304 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
What2do
Member
Member # 497
Default  Posted: 3:13 PM, May 17th (Friday)

I think your decision to separate is a good plan. You can file divorce when you feel it is necessary. Note, I said when you feel it is necessary. Not on anyone else's timeline.

I applaud you for doing what YOU think is best for your children. There needs to be more fathers and mothers like you.

Here is how I feel about your original question. I would make myself scarce while they speak to their mom. If trapped, I would just say loudly "nite Mom" and walk away. She will hear the shout out. Do this with a smile.

Your children will get the message eventually. They probably understand more than you think they do right now.

Keep on doing the good walk. Take the advice you need, and ignore the rest.


Character is what you do when no one is watching.
There is the right path and the easy path - which one will you take?

Posts: 1279 | Registered: Sep 2002
realitybites
Member
Member # 6908
Default  Posted: 3:38 PM, May 17th (Friday)

OK. So you are separating. What does that mean to you? And I am asking with very heartfelt intentions. Truly. No way of doing this is right or OK or good or perfect. You are plodding your way thru your emotions and for some reason you cannot go from 0-60 right away. Some can and some cannot.

But I WILL say that separation needs to have its own rules in play. And they need to be done in such a way that helps you. Meaning if or when or ever you 2 get back together, what will have changed? Do you want to be the same person? Do you want her to be the same person? Because guess what? You won't. Nothing will ever be the same. So I hope you are taking this S as a tool for you to get as much help as you can to find the man who is buried way down deep underneath a pile of shit at the moment.

I went thru a 6 mo. separation, but where we were TRULY separated. And it ended up being the BEST thing I ever did for me. I faithfully went to an IC once a week for quite awhile. That was absolutely the best thing I did...and I did it for me. And we did not talk every day and we did not text and I did not want to email him or listen to his voicemails. I learned to live my life again on MY terms and it took months to find that woman again.

I feel very strongly you need this. I know from all your posts that you both love your kids but this isn't really about the kids if you are really honest. This is about you not knowing how to live your life without this dysfunction all around you. I get that, I do.

My H and I are now back together for now almost 8 yrs. But it would never have had a rats chance in hell if I had not truly detached myself from what I thought was "love" and learned to find out how to love just me again.

I truly hope you find that for yourself, whether you get back together again or not. Your kids need it and you need it. A whole real man again who can stand on his own or with a partner.


Posts: 5672 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: florida
CheaterMagnet
Member
Member # 33581
Default  Posted: 4:30 PM, May 17th (Friday)

Please don't leave Abbondad! I know some of the responses are harsh and I know I am guilty of being hurtful.

Please don't leave. Please keep posting. You will find support amongst the 2x4's. And we truly do care what happens to you and your kids.

Posting here can help you with the 180 and NC. We can help you with your resolve. No, you're not perfect, but you are making steps. We aren't any of us perfect.

((((((HUGS))))))

I am so sorry for my part in making you feel unwelcome. Please know that you are very welcome.


If Happy Ever After did exist, I would still be holding you like this.
All those fairly tales are full of shit.
One more fucking love song I'll be sick. ~ Maroon 5

Posts: 1037 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Kailua-Kona, HI
What2do
Member
Member # 497
Default  Posted: 4:35 PM, May 17th (Friday)

Well, all of the bullies on this thread finally got Abbondad to leave. Hope you are happy.

He seems like a really good guy struggling to find a balance with this mess. He probably really needs some support right about now, but he does not dare come here because he just is not strong enough to take the bashing anymore.

I know I could not last as long as he did. What a shame.


Character is what you do when no one is watching.
There is the right path and the easy path - which one will you take?

Posts: 1279 | Registered: Sep 2002
velveteer
Member
Member # 30997
Default  Posted: 5:08 PM, May 17th (Friday)

AD - stick with it. There is supprt for you here.

Me and WXW S almost two years ago now. I made it clear to her that it was the real deal - not a trial thing and not a free pass. We were DONE. She was (and is) wtill in her A.

I am still not D, although we are legally S now. That took more than a year and a half - the ink's not dry even now.

Point is, yes that took a while. No I didn't 'file', 'have her served' and all the rest, but we split up - properly. I did the180, NC and all that stuff. I got better. I got through. Life improved - dramatically. My kids - they are doing alright. Its been tough for them at times, but they do alright.

There are different paths. I don't think you are torturing your kids with this anymore than I think I tortured mine. Just treat this like its final. If it isn't and she is to come back then she has a shit load of work to do. You cannot afford to depend on that or wait for it. Make it real S and you can D when you are ready.

I'm in the UK though and the legal S gave me financial protection. That IS worth thinking about.

Take care and keep your eyes forward. Don't give up on SI - there is much more this site has to offer you.

PM anytime

V

[This message edited by velveteer at 5:09 PM, May 17th (Friday)]


Divorced

Posts: 877 | Registered: Jan 2011
solus sto
Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 5:21 PM, May 17th (Friday)

I am separated, not divorced.

This is for several financial, insurance, and medical reasons.

Our kids know, without ANY doubt, that people who are married and love one do NOT continue affairs. They do NOT lie to each other or to them. They don't play human yo-yo.

Separation is SEPARATION. It's not cake-eating. It's NC except for kids and finances.

While I do not believe divorce is always the answer---obviously---I DO believe that your continual assertion that your kids are in the forefront of your mind is self-delusion at its very worst.

You may not be ready to divorce. Fine. Don't file yet. Separate.

But for all that's good, PLEASE lay off the "happy family" bullshit and LIVE like separated people.

180 until your wife decides whether she is willing to return to the family, a remorseful woman ready to do the work necessary to be PART of a marriage and family.

Until that happens (IF it does), STOP LYING TO YOURSELF AND OTHERS.

The truth? You don't want to divorce. Fine. Really---it is.

But no. It's NOT "for the kids." The back and forth shows the kids are not in the forefront of your mind. (My kids BEGGED me not to let my ex back in after separation. They were far wiser than I. Yours likely are, too)

Own the truth: you're doing this FOR YOU. Because you want it this way.

Your kids? If they're not in IC, get them there fast. Not FC, but IC, where they can freely express themselves without feeling as though they must answer a certain way because it's what you want to hear.

Your "I won't post here any more" is ...passive-aggressive at best. You don't want to hear what you NEED to hear.

That's probably unwise.


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 53, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8837 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
What2do
Member
Member # 497
Default  Posted: 5:32 PM, May 17th (Friday)

Please stop with the bashing. Your good advice and caring is like a sledgehammer. It will kill him before it knocks sense into him. He sounds like he has his own idea do sense.

Maybe just let this man decide for himself how he wants to handle this separation without dissing him because he does not do it like you want him to.

Mods, I apologize if,I am stepping out of bounds. Just don't like bullies.



Character is what you do when no one is watching.
There is the right path and the easy path - which one will you take?

Posts: 1279 | Registered: Sep 2002
survivingslowly
Member
Member # 14214
Default  Posted: 6:22 PM, May 17th (Friday)

I just hope that everyone on this board can show some compassion for Dad.

My goodness, the one thing that I read over and over is "learn from my mistakes....".

The truth is, we all had to find our own way. We didn't learn from what other posters had said (most likely we thought "well, my situation is different etc...")

And very likely, we are the same posters who came back months/years later to say "learn from what I did wrong etc..."

There is beauty in the human experience. We do have so much in common, really! However, we also believe in our hearts, that we are so unique that my experience is not like "your" experience, therefore, my reactions/actions need to be different.

This is not a soap opera or a reality t.v. show that we can all come to on a daily basis to see what "dad" has been up to. This is his LIFE. This is occuring right now in his part of the world.

Do you remember how crazy you felt/were on D day? I do. And I made some HORRIBLE mistakes. OMG, some so very humiliating and embarrassing as well as self depracating. Some that harmed my children forever. I will never forgive myself. I am 6 years out and cannot believe the things that I shared with my then 7 year old b/c I was so very hurt/angry/scared.

I am a mediator. I do this every single day. I see people acting in ridiculous ways to prolong "the fight" instead of putting the children first. I have cried many tears for those children. But what I see is some very hurt people. No one ever gets married (involved), has children with this in mind. No one ever thinks that this is how it will end. People are grieving.

I think "dad" is grieving. As he should. This may be the end of his marriage and the end of what his children consider "their family".

Give him some space and empathy as well as compassion to grieve this loss.

Believe me, prior to the A, my motto was "Infidelity is a deal breaker" and "divorce is not an option". Seriously, wth? Where does that leave me? I had (and continue to have) some very critical eye-opening moments.

Let's all show some compassion/love for "dad".

Dad, you have been so very honest in your posts (despite being treated rather harshly). Kudos to you and I hope that you continue to gain strength from this forum.

P.S., now i am beginning to wonder what subject you teach? Math? lol

ss


BS-me
FWH-him

dday#1-March/07

Fully reconciled. Life is really good!!


Posts: 318 | Registered: Apr 2007
SI Staff
Moderator
Member # 10
Red  Posted: 6:29 PM, May 17th (Friday)

What2do,

Please do not call out members, it is against the guidelines. If you have a problem with a post, please PM a moderator.

Thank you.


Posts: 10000 | Registered: May 2002
woundedwidow
Member
Member # 36869
Default  Posted: 6:30 PM, May 17th (Friday)

What2do and Abbondad, I apologize if I have been one of the "bashers". Previously, Abbondad had a 12-page thread in General which covered these SAME topics and ended with his absolute intent to divorce his wife. The last 17-page thread here went from: No, we are separating - then divorcing - then back to separation. Now in this thread, he's decided to do a separation with his (still) WW, with the possibility of an R. Throughout ALL of the many pages of responses, and the many changes of intent and direction, most respondents have supported Abbondad, with the major exception of placing an emphasis on looking out for his childrens' needs during this process. Also, people have offered advice on protecting himself emotionally and financially during the current separation. I really don't see these responses as bullying, when people so strongly care about what happens to Abbondad and his kids. He is an adult, and can read/post here - or Not - as he desires. I sincerely hope things go well for him and the children now and in the future, whether D or R.


Be careful what you wish for the most - you may get it.

Posts: 395 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: VA
SI Staff
Moderator
Member # 10
Default  Posted: 6:41 PM, May 17th (Friday)

Since Abbondad said he is stepping away for now, we're going to lock this up.

Posts: 10000 | Registered: May 2002
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 10:39 AM, May 24th (Friday)

Hi Everyone,

I am back again and am reaching out for your support, as I have told my wife I want the divorce. She agreed. No surprise there, since she agreed the last time and told me and herself that she believes we will come back to each other and even remarry after the divorce once we have both "healed and grown." (Her affair is continuing unabated.)

Mind boggling.

In my last update, I explained that she moved out. I am very lonely, anxious and depressed--a wreck overall. But I am holding up pretty well in front of the children.

My 180 has been going well.

The kids are OK with our coparenting schedule. I do not want to tell them of the divorce until it is finalized, as they are going through enough as it is. Hopefully when we tell them they will have become much more acclimated to their change of life and will understand that it will not be much different than it is now. Hopefully "divorce" will be more of just a word and largely demystified.

I look forward to your support as always so I may get through this wrenching door and out of the hell of limbo. I just want it to be over.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
woundedwidow
Member
Member # 36869
Default  Posted: 10:55 AM, May 24th (Friday)

I'm glad you're holding up well in front of the children. Please do what you need to take care of yourself as well, AD. Since you've told your wife you want the D and she has agreed, when will you officially file? I hope you have a good lawyer, as it may not go quite as smoothly as you expect, and you do need to protect yourself. ((Hugs)).


Be careful what you wish for the most - you may get it.

Posts: 395 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: VA
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 11:05 AM, May 24th (Friday)

Congrat's (How effin sad to use that word in this situation) on moving forward. Yep, we will be here for you. Your WW is quite a piece of work and continues in her own delusional world. I fear a rather bumpy ride for you.

told me and herself that she believes we will come back to each other and even remarry after the divorce once we have both "healed and grown." (Her affair is continuing unabated.)

Just wow.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2979 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
ninebark
Member
Member # 24534
Default  Posted: 11:19 AM, May 24th (Friday)

If you both act as responsible parents your kids should be just fine . As long as they know that mommy and daddy love them and it is okay to love them both back they should be okay.

I am glad you are able to move forward with your life and find some peace and healing.

I am two years separated now. I talk to my Ex pretty regularly, we started out just talking about our son, finances and work scheudle.

We are at a point where we can talk about his family (I am close to his parents), my family, his girlfriend and my boyfriend. We are pretty effective parents for the most part.

Your posts are so filled with pain over the loss of your marriage and wife. I honestly wish the best for you. Good luck


BS (me) 40
WH - 48
Married 12 years
DS - 12
D-day 06/21/09
Separated....hopefully divorcing soon.

Posts: 630 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Canada
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 11:22 AM, May 24th (Friday)

Welcome back...

I apologize for my 2x4's AD. The last month has been very difficult for me and I think I was projecting my anger and sadness into a few of my responses. Im sorry.


Im glad you've told her you're filing...go though with it.

How nice that she wants to continue to fuck OM..but wants you to hang around and wait until she's done..so you two can get back together.

Excuse me while I go puke.


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling?

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7678 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 11:22 AM, May 24th (Friday)

Thank you. I'm so glad everyone is still here for me. I have also contacted every friend IRL as a way of "circling the support wagons."

WW's reasoning behind "heal":

We have both been terribly hurt by this. How was she hurt? I am not quite sure since I suggested one thing over two years ago that in hindsight was wrong but to which she agreed.

"We need to grow." According to her we both need to grow into fully actualized adults. Apparently we were not during the eight wonderful years we had prior to her infidelity. And to grow she needs to "get it out of her system." "It" being this affair which has been going on for two years. Ok. Get it out of your system. Meanwhile I will be out of her system for good.

As far as "filing": we are going to try mediation, which is much less expensive and does not involve the courts. I am very skeptical of her being able to keep it civil during mediation, especially when it comes to finances. But the worst case scenario is we stop mediation and go to litigation.

[This message edited by Abbondad at 11:26 AM, May 24th (Friday)]


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
ProbableIceCream
Member
Member # 37468
Default  Posted: 12:33 PM, May 24th (Friday)

The stuff about needing to grow and so on is just nice sounding justification for going out and doing whatever she wants. My wife started with that stuff herself and abandoned it after it became clear that she didn't need to placate me and we weren't getting back together. Stuff is way more peaceful now that I've accepted that she's with OM, am not fighting it, and am moving on.


Me, 32. DD, 8. DS, 6 (deceased).

Posts: 841 | Registered: Nov 2012
alphakitte
Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 12:40 PM, May 24th (Friday)

According to her we both need to grow into fully actualized adults.

Considering your description of her family of origin issues, that may be entirely true, for her, regardless of any relationship she might be in. Or, it could just be an excuse to saunter on her chosen path.


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 350 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 1:03 PM, May 24th (Friday)

Stuff is way more peaceful now that I've accepted that she's with OM

This is going to be the brutal one for me: this is the man who has tried (and has succeeded) for two years to take my wife and in the process destroy my family, including two innocent children whose world has been Mommy and Daddy together. I have no idea how I am going to cope with this. (I really don't want my children to visit their Dad in jail, a hospital, or the cemetary.)


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
CheaterMagnet
Member
Member # 33581
Default  Posted: 2:47 PM, May 24th (Friday)

You can do this AD. I promise you that you can. Keep coming here for support when you feel weak. Rage here. Get your anger out toward WW and OM. And IRL, go for walks, take up kickboxing, punch the crap out of pillows (in private of course). Do whatever you have to do to get it out. Holding it all inside will destroy you. Trust me, I've BTDT.

I know some of us swung some pretty nasty 2x4's at you, but we are all here for you. We all want you to make it through to the other side. We will continue to be here for you as long as you need us.

(((((((HUGS))))))) and strength to you.


If Happy Ever After did exist, I would still be holding you like this.
All those fairly tales are full of shit.
One more fucking love song I'll be sick. ~ Maroon 5

Posts: 1037 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Kailua-Kona, HI
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 3:00 PM, May 24th (Friday)

I have no idea how I am going to cope with this. (I really don't want my children to visit their Dad in jail, a hospital, or the cemetary.)
We all had no idea how we would cope with it but we didn't have a choice so we did the best we could and kept moving forward. For me it was as you put it, someone had to be there for the kids so I couldn't go to jail or end up in the cemetary. Keep up with the 180 and this does get easier as well. You are doing great Abbondad, one step at a time always moving forward.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1910 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
Dark Inertia
Member
Member # 30727
Default  Posted: 3:19 PM, May 24th (Friday)

"Getting it out of her system" sounds like she wants something to fall back on in case AP does not work out


"If I listened earlier, I wouldn't be here. But that's just the trouble with me. I give myself very good advice, but I very seldom follow it."

Posts: 1280 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: The Ohio
Sad in AZ
Member
Member # 24239
Default  Posted: 3:29 PM, May 24th (Friday)

'Getting it out of their systems' is a sub-chapter in the Cheaters' Handbook. The X was of the opinion that if I had just left it alone, he would have 'gotten it out of his system' and we would still be together. He's still with the OW 2+ years after D, so I guess I'd still be sitting on the sidelines in his plan. Mind-boggling doesn't even begin to explain it.


I solemnly swear that I am up to no good.

Posts: 20281 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Upstate NY
realitybites
Member
Member # 6908
Default  Posted: 4:06 PM, May 24th (Friday)

This is going to be the brutal one for me: this is the man who has tried (and has succeeded) for two years to take my wife and in the process destroy my family, including two innocent children whose world has been Mommy and Daddy together.

Very kindly....he has not "taken" your wife, she has gone willingly. And this did not just "happen", they have been doing this for 2 years.

The only thing different is you getting to the point where you finally admit that it truly is real. I understand the BS denial.

Its when you get to the point that your understand that everyone involved....your kids included....have been in this shit storm for 2 years. it did not just happen yesteday.

Once you get there, believe it or not, there will come a time when a huge weight will come off your shoulders. Acceptance is not saying it is OK. Its just finally admitting you can't do anything about it.


Posts: 5672 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: florida
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 4:07 PM, May 24th (Friday)

Hi,

WW just left with kids for,the weekend. Hadn't seen her for almost a week and haven't spoken to,her since I texted her this morning that I want a divorce.

I wasn't sure how she would be in person, but no surprise: cold cold cold. Quiet anger.

This actually makes me feel a bit better, relieved. Her demeanor reminds me why this needs to happen. When I grieve, I am thinking about her loving, sweet side. But this has always been only a side. Her other persona is the one on display just now. Rather chilling, actually--like a nasty princess spurned, or more accurately, a child whose cake has been taken away.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
crazynot
Member
Member # 24572
Default  Posted: 4:23 PM, May 24th (Friday)

Now move on. You're an intelligent man. Do everything you can not to think of her. There's a world beyond this hard place.


Me - 50
Him - 51
DDay 21 March 2009
Divorcing and delighted!

Do you want me to tell you something really subversive? Love is everything it's cracked up to be. That's why people are so cynical about it.


Posts: 873 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: UK
crazynot
Member
Member # 24572
Default  Posted: 4:28 PM, May 24th (Friday)

and also, as one eloquent wordsmith to another, remember that she has other cake. She is not thinking of you as the 'cake' she has lost, she is just being petulant and resentful. Don't let words parachute you into unreality... (says one to another)... this has been over for some time. You need to let go, not of your fine, noble, romantic self, but of your idealised picture of her and who she could be. After all this time it still sometimes sounds like you think you can be her saviour. Instead, you need to be your own.


Me - 50
Him - 51
DDay 21 March 2009
Divorcing and delighted!

Do you want me to tell you something really subversive? Love is everything it's cracked up to be. That's why people are so cynical about it.


Posts: 873 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: UK
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 4:55 PM, May 24th (Friday)

Oh god,

Something awful has happened. My son received on his iphone my "I want a divorce" text from this morning. I sent it from my ipad instead of from my iphone. I don't know why/how he received it.

Not important. My wife and I are freaking out. I wondered why he has been acting depressed and quiet all day. He is at his therapist right now with my wife.

We had agreed not to tell him until the divorce was finalized. Goddamn her for all of this. These are the exact words I told her a year ago during one of the times I pleaded with her to stop: "if you continue to do,this, you will bring calamity of our family."

Words she has used to mock me after.

Well, here is the calamity. I am sure I will be blamed even for this.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
standingonmarble
Member
Member # 31217
Default  Posted: 5:18 PM, May 24th (Friday)

Funny how the truth has a way of coming out.

Embrace it now. Living in the truth, nothing but the truth is a much better way to live. No more trying to remember what you said. If she continues to lie, so be it. You can't control her.

Your kids will be okay as long as you stay on top of it. Sounds like you will.

Keep calm and stay strong.


At one time he was a man standing on marbles. Now I am a woman standing on marble.....

We are done fighting with each other and decide to fight FOR each other.


Posts: 738 | Registered: Feb 2011
Coraline
Member
Member # 36434
Default  Posted: 5:38 PM, May 24th (Friday)

I think it was totally wrongheaded to wait to tell them anyway. It's deceitful and it assumes your kids don't deserve the truth because they're just kids. Wrong, wrong, and wrong. I actually can't believe no one told you that *before* this post. I'm shocked by that. Kids shouldn't be told something that momentous after it already happened. I can't believe a therapist told you that was a good idea. I'm glad he knows. It shouldn't have been that way that he found out, but I'm glad for him that you've lost your opportunity to basically trick him.


Me: BW, 34 Him: WH, 35
3 Kids: 9, 3, and 1
Decree nisi will become absolute in January. We are DONE.

Posts: 771 | Registered: Aug 2012
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 6:18 PM, May 24th (Friday)

The shit just keeps hitting that fan...

WW called me from the therapist's parking lot: her remote is not working and she can't get into her car. And the key cylinder is broken. She's there with two upset kids.

She demanded I come there and magically fix the remote and cylinder. Well, I can't do that. I told her she needs to take care of this by herself, informing her that she needs to call AAA for roadside assistance. She ordered me to. I calmly told her that she has the card in her purse, where I put it, with all the information she needs.

She is furious and hung up on me.

The point is, she is abruptly getting a slight taste of life without me, he who has coddled her and taken care of nearly every detail in her life. Reality is crashing in, and fast.

I was not a crowing asshole about it. In fact, of course I would have at least driven there to pick up the kids. But i am like two hours away. I was calm. I hope she remembers that I told her I want nothing to do with her unless it involves kids or finances.

Cake? Gone.

But we still have to talk about the divorce text my son read. I guess now that the truth is out, we need to comfort him about it as best we can.

God, can this get any worse? I suspect it will, particularly when more incidents arise in which her perpetual rescuer is no longer available to rescue.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
ProbableIceCream
Member
Member # 37468
Default  Posted: 6:18 PM, May 24th (Friday)

Abbondad, I understand the anger towards the OM. I had it for many months. Eventually I realized that he was just a random person my WW was using.. it could have been anyone. Yes, it was awful of him to sleep with a married woman, but I don't feel upset at him any more. I feel indifferent, really.

Anyway.. it's OK to be mad at him. I totally understand. It feels like he took your wife away from you.


Me, 32. DD, 8. DS, 6 (deceased).

Posts: 841 | Registered: Nov 2012
ExposedNiblet
Member
Member # 30803
Default  Posted: 6:37 PM, May 24th (Friday)

Welcome back Abbondad.

Your STBX wife's delusional thinking struck a chord with me. For a time, my XH was convinced that his affair was "a phase" we (???) were going through and eventually we'd "find our way back to each other". He even went so far as to research buying a duplex together - with me and the boys living on one side and him living on the other. He would keep an eye on me and I'd cook for him (?!?!). Seriously, you can't make this crap up!

I am glad you're getting a little glimpse now as to how cold your STBX wife can be. It makes adjusting to this new normal a whole lot easier, and it helps you to forecast how nasty she can (and likely will) get. I don't want to scare you, Abbondad, but one of the hardest things I ever had to do was wrap my head around the level of unbridled hatred my XH developed for me during the divorce. It's a phenomena that seems quite prevalent among the WS. Maybe it's their way of dealing with what they've done, a coping mechanism of sorts, but whatever it is, it sure as hell is painful to see when it's directed at you. Please brace yourself. Maybe you've heard the saying "you never really know
somebody until you divorce them" - it's the truth. Remember, though, you are not alone.

I'm sorry your son found out about your divorce accidentally, but it is a blessing that he had an appointment with his therapist on the same day. He will be upset, but he will be fine. Personally, I am a strong supporter of being upfront with the children through the process, so I do think that waiting until the divorce is finalized is unrealistic. My boys both had so many questions right through the process, that postponing the answers till after the divorce just would not have been realistic. The one thing I would say to you is this; your kids seem to be very close to you, as mine were with me. They will ask the difficult questions of the parent they feel most at ease with. This will most likely be you. Whatever you do, tell them the truth as you know it, and do not lie to them, under any circumstances, and especially not to protect your STBX wife. I cannot emphasise this enough, because as the parent of 2 now-teenaged boys, I see how important it is for these kids to have a parent they can completely trust 100%. Like my oldest says, "We may not want to hear it, but we know Mom tells us the truth". You have no idea what kind of parent your STBX wife will end up being, so you have to do whatever you can to be the one they turn to.

You can do this, Abbondad. We are all here for you 24/7. We've got your back and we will help you get through to the other side.

In time, things will get better and you will be happier than you ever dreamed.

Onward...


Nibs


Divorced
Me ($39.95 plus S & H)
DS1(17), DS2(15)

Enjoying this chapter in my life.
Learning that being alone does not mean being lonely.
Discovering that where I've been is not as important as where I'm going.


Posts: 355 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Right Here, Canada
ExposedNiblet
Member
Member # 30803
Default  Posted: 6:40 PM, May 24th (Friday)

I told her she needs to take care of this by herself, informing her that she needs to call AAA for roadside assistance.

BRAVO! WELL DONE ABBONDAD!
(good for you!)

Nibs


Divorced
Me ($39.95 plus S & H)
DS1(17), DS2(15)

Enjoying this chapter in my life.
Learning that being alone does not mean being lonely.
Discovering that where I've been is not as important as where I'm going.


Posts: 355 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Right Here, Canada
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:19 PM, May 24th (Friday)

Just worse and worse...

Because my nine-year-old read the text that I wrote to my wife telling her I want a divorce, he doesn't want to talk to me since I am now the bad guy, the one who wants to leave Mommy and break up the family!

I first talked to my wife and tried to get a simple answer before I tried to speak to him on the phone: did you or did you not confirm that we are divorcing. She could/would not answer the question, just evaded it: "I told him we will always love him, etc."

"Ok, good, but did you confirm to him that yes, we are getting a divorce so I know what to say to him!!??"

"I don't know, are we getting a divorce? I don't know since you are so unpredictable."

"Yes, we are! I told you that we are!!"

"Do you know what it's like to receive a text like that? Do you know what I have been dealing with?"

(All irony flies right over this woman's head.)

Ok, I said. I can't get an answer from you. Let me talk to him.

My poor son got the phone and said, "Goodnight, Daddy," and hung up on me.

I am in tears. For the hundredth time, goddamn her and all these people who destroy their families like this.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
LA44
Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 8:32 PM, May 24th (Friday)

I am so so sorry your son read r D note and that he is now upset with you. Nine is a pivotal age in a child's life. They are still children but hear so much with little ability to make sense of grown up messes.

When you see him next, please hug him and tell him you are sorry that he found out this way. I agree with Coraline - children should NOT be told after the fact about a D or a S. This is so upsetting to me.

Perhaps this came to yet another head for this reason alone - time to sit down with the kids and calmly discuss what the future will look like. And that your love for them will never change. But first if there ANY chance you can you talk to your soon to be ex and agree on what to tell the kids?

I wish you well.


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2441 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 8:37 PM, May 24th (Friday)

It's going to be okay abbondad.

You want your kids to see strength and know that Dad has his shit together. This discussion was going to happen eventually, now it's just happening a little sooner than you wanted. So when they come back after the weekend just sit them down and talk to them and let them ask you questions. Don't hold anything back and give them all the details they need in an age appropriate manner.

Have the discussion with them. Believe me it will go better than you think it will and once it's done that will be another weight lifted off you. It's another step you were going to have to take at some point anyway so go ahead embrace it and keep moving forward.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1910 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
homewrecked2011
Member
Member # 34678
Default  Posted: 9:18 PM, May 24th (Friday)

This is what Dr. Laura said to do:

Sit the children down and tell them the ws has made a selfish decision to have a boyfriend and it is unacceptable to me to be in this relationship any longer. It is wrong and your mom has made her decision.


me BS 52
him - 46
married 15 years DIVORCED 10 31 12
children - ds15 ds12
d-day 12-19-11
I gave a 24hour ultimatum then went to attorney next day
Divorce filed

Posts: 2205 | Registered: Jan 2012
ExposedNiblet
Member
Member # 30803
Default  Posted: 11:41 PM, May 24th (Friday)

This is not a catastrophe.

Do not let your own feelings of guilt cloud the reality here:

Your son is hurting right now.

Heaven knows what your STBX has said to him or what she will say this weekend. You cannot control that. You can talk to the kids about this in an age appropriate manner once they get home.

You knew this discussion was coming eventually. You will have to have this talk a little earlier than what you had hoped. Still, it's not the end of the world. You will get through it.

Your children will be fine
You will be fine too.

It's going to be okay, Abbondad.

Nibs


Divorced
Me ($39.95 plus S & H)
DS1(17), DS2(15)

Enjoying this chapter in my life.
Learning that being alone does not mean being lonely.
Discovering that where I've been is not as important as where I'm going.


Posts: 355 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Right Here, Canada
crazynot
Member
Member # 24572
Default  Posted: 1:40 AM, May 25th (Saturday)

It's unfortunate, yes, and I feel really sorry for your poor son, finding out that way. But now more than ever it's important to be clear with him and tell him the truth. I found that with my son, who was 14 when his dad ran off... He was angry, furious, heartbroken, bereft... but throughout the whole thing we were open with each other. We sealed over the wound in our family that WH created when we left, and created a new family of 3 of us. The kids had noticed every lie, every evasion, every bad mood in the preceding year and once he was gone we all pledged that there would be no lies in our house. Four years later that heartbroken boy is the strongest, healthiest young man you could imagine, currently backpacking in India before he goes to university to study law. I tell you this because I know how much life improves beyond the lies.


Me - 50
Him - 51
DDay 21 March 2009
Divorcing and delighted!

Do you want me to tell you something really subversive? Love is everything it's cracked up to be. That's why people are so cynical about it.


Posts: 873 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: UK
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 6:19 AM, May 25th (Saturday)

Im so sorry. I so wish you had listened to us. The truth has a way of coming out,and unfortunately,your little boy now feels betrayed by you...something you were told would happen after you lied to him,then refused to go to him and tell him the truth. Gently,Dad,and I do mean gently, I hope you learn from this. Be honest with your kids. The worst thing you can do is lie to them...especially now,as their world is falling apart.

Want to remedy this? Go to him..alone..without your wife. She is not the "good" mom you have made her out to be..she is selfish..abusive..and has no problem shitting on her kids to get what she wants. And,honestly,she doesn't belong in a conversation between you and your son,where you are apologizing and rectifying your past mistake of lying to him. This is between the two of you. He's 9? He's old enough to be told the truth..in an age appropriate way. Tell him when two people marry,they make promises to each other..big promises that are to never be broken. And mommy broke a promise to daddy. Actually,if it were me,I'd tell him mommy started dating while you were still very much married,and that is why you two are divorcing. It's the truth. And,since she is still fucking around with the OM,chances are sky high that OM will be around your kids now that WW has moved out.

Be honest with your son. You know how being lied to feels. Don't lie to your son.


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling?

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7678 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 7:34 AM, May 25th (Saturday)

Good morning friends,

I just had the most terrible five minute discussion of my life. I called my nine year old who is still very upset and just got it over with.

Obviously my wife still danced around the question with him last night, so I had to just be honest and direct:

"Are you wondering if we are getting divorced?"

"Yeah..."

"Yes, we are, DS."

He hung up on me but picked up when I called him right back.

I tried comforting him for a bit and then asked him: "Is there one thing about this that scares you or upsets you the most? That you think about the most?"

"Yes."

"Tell me and maybe it won't be so scary."

"I'm afraid YOU are gonna meet someone else."

This just broke me into pieces. It was very difficult to recite the script through my anger and tears. But I managed to tell him that yes, someday I may meet someone else and mommy may meet someone else, but nobody will take the place of our mommy or daddy, etc.

Everyone, I can't even express the depth of my rage at her. That even witnessing the emotional pain of my little boy, she still won't act. Not that I want her back--or rather, I don't want the person she has proven she is--but it just seems so clear to my ethical code: if my family is in pain, this is a emergency. You do everything and anything to stop this pain, even if involves great pain for you.

Am I on a different planet?

Anyway, I feel as low as I have ever felt since my wife said, "I have been having an affair."


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
debbysbaby
Member
Member # 32962
Default  Posted: 7:56 AM, May 25th (Saturday)

Dad, I have not replied to your threads up to this point but I have followed along. I am 8 years out of my divorce from my WXH who up and left me for another woman and tried to make the divorce seem like my fault. My kids were 9, 7 and 5 at the time.
For the rest of the weekend, if you talk to the kids, affirm that you know this is hard for them, but tell them you would rather discuss this when you are face to face and wait until they are home to talk with them. You've already been given great advice on what to say. I do NOT recommend talking about this on the phone for two reasons. Your wife may be listening and then have the opportunity to twist things against you after you hang up the phone or the kids may talk to her after you hang up and she may do the same. You need the chance to talk to them and then be there for the aftershocks...WITHOUT your toxic STBXW there to sabotage your relationship with them.

So sorry for all this.


-betrayed almost my whole almost 15 yr marriage
-divorced since 2004

Posts: 880 | Registered: Aug 2011
Afraid2LoveAgain
Member
Member # 11185
Default  Posted: 8:02 AM, May 25th (Saturday)

I'm so sorry you are going through this, AbbonDad.

Are you sure that she didn't forward the text to your son? I've had iPhones and iPads since they first came out and I can't think of anyway this could have happened the way she told it.


BW -- 57
Divorced 2001
Re-married 2014--on what would have been our 35th anniversary

Posts: 426 | Registered: Jul 2006 | From: NC
debbysbaby
Member
Member # 32962
Default  Posted: 8:06 AM, May 25th (Saturday)

Are you sure that she didn't forward the text to your son? I've had iPhones and iPads since they first came out and I can't think of anyway this could have happened the way she told it.

This will happen if both devices share an apple ID/itunes/icloud account. It was happening to me when my kids had ipod touches and I got an iphone. I thought we could all share an account so we could all share apps and games. Unfortunately it was sharing our texts and imessages, too. I had to get my own apple ID and make sure nothing was shared.


-betrayed almost my whole almost 15 yr marriage
-divorced since 2004

Posts: 880 | Registered: Aug 2011
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:07 AM, May 25th (Saturday)

Also, although I expressed thanks to everyone in most of my posts, I want to "dedicate" this post to just say "Thank you."

I know I have been one of the hardest "cases" on these boards to get through to and it has been frustrating to witness me nod my head and ignore your advice, admonitions and wisdom as I walk straight back into the cycle of pain, buoyed by hope and delusion.

But through it all, believe me when I say that I have always known your advice was spot on. I have always known. I just could not bring myself to act. I was afraid. And I still am. And I still love my wife. That switch does not turn off easily. Maybe it never will.

For me, it ultimately came down to self respect, integrity, and of course love for my children. I think that unless there is something seriously wrong with someone, the human brain can withstand only so much pain and then it acts. It has to or it dies.

I have learned and am learning so much about love and human relationships. They are so complex but also so very simple.

My parents were married for fifty-two years. (By the way, my wife came from an extremely broken home, with three different fathers going away and coming back, which helps me understand her actions; but I digress.).

Toward the end of their lives, I asked my mom, "How did you and Daddy stay together for so long? And so happily?"

She replied, "We tried never to hurt each other. If something did, we didn't do it."

Complex, right?

I am very sad today. I hope to someday have the marriage my beloved parents did. I miss them and wish I could share my experience with them.

Thanks again everyone for sticking with me.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 8:19 AM, May 25th (Saturday)

Your post made me tear up, Abbondad. Your mom sounds like she was very wise, I bet you do miss them, especially now. (((Abbondad)))

I am not saying you aren't special, Abbondad, but there have been countless others here at SI just like you. Everyone supports, chides, advises and sticks with them just like they did with you. Thats what they do here at SI.

Someday, you can do the same for someone else.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9797 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 9:51 AM, May 25th (Saturday)

She replied, "We tried never to hurt each other. If something did, we didn't do it."

I love your mom.....*dreamy sigh*

You've been honest, Dad. You've kept coming back and even if you didn't take the advice when it was given, it *stuck* in your head.

I was told to go NC
I was told that Sultan was NOT going to change
I was told NOT to bring him to SI
I was told NOT to suspend my divorce

I didn't listen either. I did it *my way* too. Everyone was absolutely, spot-on right. About everything.

The thing is that it takes some time to wrap your head around a reality that is sooooo different that what you thought it was and to change the *vision* that you held of the future. But most people get there eventually......


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8075 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
DeadMumWalking
Member
Member # 25341
Default  Posted: 12:05 PM, May 25th (Saturday)

"I'm afraid YOU are gonna meet someone else."

He doesn't want YOU to abandon him too, like his mom is.

As many others before me have said, and I hope that you are now truly taking on board, stick with THE TRUTH. ALWAYS. Yes, keep it age appropriate. But be there for your children 100%. Tell them, gently, the truth. All. The. Time. You never know how your lies will come back to bite you in the ass (and continue to hurt your children).

Hang in there ((((Abbondad & kids))))


Me (BS), Him (WH): early 50's
3 DS: teens!!! :)
M: 25 (19 1/2 at Dday), Together 30
Dday: Dec 2008
Limbo-ish, again (after multiple S) -- weighing my options

Posts: 2606 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: EU
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 12:42 PM, May 25th (Saturday)

He doesn't want YOU to abandon him too, like his mom is.

You are exactly right about this!! He just texted me before, upset, and asked me just this! "You aren't gonna leave me, right?"

I have been texting him back ten times an hour reassuring him using every word in the English language that I will "never never ever ever" leave him.

My heart is broken today. He has never been anything but the happiest boy in the world, safe in the arms of his home and family. And now this poison has invaded his universe.

On the WW front: she just called me from the store, demanding that I come with the SUV to help her with large packages!! I told her once again, like yesterday, that she would have to handle this herself. This was not taken with cheer and good will.

I guess she does not like "time to grow" after all. Or at least this manifestation.

Does she not understand that this is life without Husband? That this is what she hath wrought?

I'm not taking pleasure in this despite my sarcasm. I am very sad. My deeply conditioned response is to rescue. But I had to resist and not react to her anger.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
FaithFool
Member
Member # 20150
Default  Posted: 12:54 PM, May 25th (Saturday)

(((Abbondad)))

She is a bit slow isn't she? Sheesh, cake eater much?

Your son will be fine. I'm sorry you're going through this.


DDay: June 15, 2008
Mistakenly married Mr. Superfreak
20 years of OWs, WTF?
Divorced Dec 26, 2011
"Life is a shipwreck, but we must not forget
to sing in the lifeboats". -- Voltaire

Posts: 17488 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: Canada
persevere
Member
Member # 31468
Default  Posted: 1:14 PM, May 25th (Saturday)

On the WW front: she just called me from the store, demanding that I come with the SUV to help her with large packages!! I told her once again, like yesterday, that she would have to handle this herself. This was not taken with cheer and good will.

I've been following your thread, and I know this was hard for you, but it is exactly the right thing to do. Good job. The 180 is more for you than her, but it is important that she understand that there are consequences to her choices.

Just keep reassuring your son, you're doing the best you can, and that's all any of us can do. ((Hugs))


Me: BW-44
Him: XWH-44
Together 9 yrs
DDays: 1/10/2011
Status: Divorced 4/27/11

Above all, be the heroine, not the victim. - Nora Ephron

It is our choices...that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities.
- J. K. Rowling


Posts: 4607 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: Texas
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 4:23 PM, May 25th (Saturday)

To conclude my hellish day--and divorce has not even begun--this is what I get:

A phone rant from the WW accusing me of tampering with her phone, our sons phone, our ipad, Verizon, deliberately sending our son the divorce text, hiding information from her, and not telling her where I am.

The ironic crescendo: "I have always been honest and open with you. I have never hid anything. Whatever you are doing is not in the best interests of our children."

Project much?

Oh wait. That isn't projection. Which defense mechanism best suits this? All of them? Trying to remember Psych 101...

I don't know whether to laugh, cringe, or hire a team of shark lawyers.

[This message edited by Abbondad at 4:44 PM, May 25th (Saturday)]


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
ProbableIceCream
Member
Member # 37468
Default  Posted: 4:40 PM, May 25th (Saturday)

It's all talk. The correct response is to ignore it.


Me, 32. DD, 8. DS, 6 (deceased).

Posts: 841 | Registered: Nov 2012
Jrazz
Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 5:03 PM, May 25th (Saturday)

I remember when my IC started teaching me how to let go of trying to have a relationship with my NPD, toxic InLaws. I think her advice holds here too.

The more calm you are and the more you pull away to protect yourself, the angrier they will become. They will spew MORE vitriol, they will try to recruit people to their cause. Occasionally, they will do an about face and beg your forgiveness and sing your praises. This will last seconds before the anger returns. This is the way of those with NPD. The less control they have, the more they lash out.

On the one hand it's going to be very painful to face when they get an audience with you. On the other hand, the more they start to unravel, the easier it will be for you to see that you are making the right choice by protecting and distancing yourself from them.

You've come a million miles, Abbondad. I'm really proud of you. You're going to be ok, and you're a shining example to your kids of how to handle adversity with grace.

[This message edited by Jrazz at 5:04 PM, May 25th (Saturday)]


Cherish those who seek the truth but beware of those who find it. - François-Marie Arouet

Posts: 17810 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 5:16 PM, May 25th (Saturday)

Thanks so much, Jrazz. It is so hard, but god knows I am trying....

It is clear my WW is really starting to crack with that phone call. I must steel myself for more to come.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
SBB
Member
Member # 35229
Default  Posted: 6:46 PM, May 25th (Saturday)

Don't take her calls. Insist on all comms via email/text given she can't seem to control herself.

Don't engage - do not give her a chance to rant at you verbally. Time to cut her off.

I'm an assistant and a few years ago I heard my old boss telling his XW off on the phone several years after D. Something about how dumb she was for buying a particular car. At the end of the phone call I told him he was no longer her husband, she no longer his wife - he had no right to speak to her that way.

It sounds weird but its true. We don't have to put up with their bullshit anymore.

Not the yelling, not the criticism, not the moods - nothing. We don't have to put up with any of it anymore.


I may have reached a point where I'd piss on him if he was on fire.... eventually!!

Posts: 5609 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Australia
JamieMc
Member
Member # 37776
Default  Posted: 7:03 PM, May 25th (Saturday)

Dad, I am glad you are still drawing support from S.I:) I truly believe, even the 2x4's you received, were for the most part , coming from true caring and in many cases, hard lessons that posters were just trying to spare you some grief. For me personally, I was the girl that found out @ 10 years old that Dad cheated on Mom:( I lived with that hellish lie until I was 19 & could afford to move out. They eventually split several years later but my childhood & my siblings would have been sooo much better if they had stuck a fork in it YEARS earlier! Hug your kids & keep posting! You CAN be a stable parent for your young ones and WE are here for you ! All the best Jamie


BS early 50's Wh also early 50's. I am Jamie, Mom to 3 great teens/young adults. My WH and I have been together more than half of our lives and married 25+. We are in MC & going to give R our best shot, hoping and praying for a better 2013!

Posts: 112 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: USA
alphakitte
Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 7:43 PM, May 25th (Saturday)

Projection? Maybe some. Mostly deflection. The goal is to cause you to go on the defensive and get all wrapped up in that.

Crickets should be your response to the most recent volley.


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 350 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
Compartmented
Member
Member # 29410
Default  Posted: 8:22 PM, May 25th (Saturday)

I tried comforting him for a bit and then asked him: "Is there one thing about this that scares you or upsets you the most? That you think about the most?"

"Yes."

"Tell me and maybe it won't be so scary."

"I'm afraid YOU are gonna meet someone else."

Abbondad, I know it's hard and scary, but keep that communication going! That's good stuff that you wrote! My children are older and don't share as much with me.

I know it's hard to hear the things you hear at SI, but I have to tell you, there are folks worse off than you....I lurked so long because I knew if I posted, I'd hear stuff I didn't want to hear and couldn't face. SI was right, but I seriously thought my situation was different. Hang in there and you'll be okay. Keep posting, keep reading...you'll get through this and you'll be able to be there for your children. SI, counseling and Al-Anon have gotten me from the depths of despair back to happiness.

ImNellNow's 180 train was a great thing!

It seems like all your questions boil down to "how do I stay on the 180 train"? Since you obviously come to SI for support and advice, you might do what I did a few years ago and start a thread in D/S or General to check in every day about your attempts to implement the 180. I did it to be accountable somewhere and I would talk about what I did for me, when I fell off by interacting with Daffy, and other "riders" would occasionally jump in with their stories or support. I found it really helpful.

Just start a thread with some sort of "180 support" name and join in! We used to post what we did each day in terms of working the 180; we shared our little successes, and big ones, and a few failures. It's a process; one day at a time.

And this:

Change your ringtone on your phone so when your WW calls it plays "Bitches aint shit" by Dr. Dre
makes me love SI!!

Posts: 1271 | Registered: Aug 2010
metamorphisis
Administrator
Member # 12041
Default  Posted: 8:45 PM, May 25th (Saturday)

Purely technical support here..

Does your son have an Iphone by any chance? I read about a similar Iphone account problem somewhere else.
This might explain it..https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3820405?start=0&tstart=0



“We don't see things as they are; we see them as we are.”... Anais Nin

Posts: 44948 | Registered: Sep 2006
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 7:40 AM, May 26th (Sunday)

Thanks, Metamorphosis,

I think I figured out the problem. I had to turn off iCloud in my iPad settings under Messages. (My son's iphone is linked to my account.). Hate iCloud. It's screwed me up before, deleting hundreds of my bookmarks.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 7:45 AM, May 26th (Sunday)

Good morning, everyone,

Reel me back in please. Or at least advise. I now realize that yesterday my wife likely had the AP drive her to our home when I refused to rescue her from a parking lot where she couldn't get into her car.

I am fighting the urge to call her and let loose on her, thus breaking my composure and 180. Threaten to call the police on him for trespassing, anything I can think of.

A boundary has been crossed. He has never been to our home. Our home is sacred. This to me is utter disrespect and defilement.

Please advise.

Thank you!


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:03 AM, May 26th (Sunday)

Too late. I already called her. Of course I was right. He drove her to our home.

I maintained my composure. I told her to respect our sacred home.

She became angry and said that I have let her down and have no respect for HER.

I need to just stop. Just stop, right?


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
alphakitte
Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 8:36 AM, May 26th (Sunday)

Dad, Just stop.

You posted asking for advice & then 18 minutes later you've already acted. Impulsive reactions prevent measured responses.

You are not the boss of her.


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 350 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
Chrysalis123
Member
Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 8:47 AM, May 26th (Sunday)

You said it once, now crickets.

In my case, email only works best. XH spews forth venom when on the phone.

Added bonus: paper trail.

A paper trail at your stage of the game would be mighty handy I think.


Don’t get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well. 

Posts: 2706 | Registered: Jan 2010
PurpleRose
Member
Member # 33129
Default  Posted: 8:50 AM, May 26th (Sunday)

AD..

This is a mantra I have been repeating for months now, and I think it fits in your situation perfectly too:

I can't control it (him/her)'.
I can't change it (him/her).
I can't cure it (him/her)".

Lather, rinse, repeat.

I know this new mindset is incredibly difficult to stick with. If you can, your healing will increase, allowing you to be there for your kids more effectively. And believe me, they will need a sane parent. I never knew how important MY stability through all this D stuff would be until recently when I was assaulted in front of my children. Now the mama tiger comes out and I'm no longer playing games with the Dooosh.

This shit gets real, real quick and in ways you can't expect, so you have got to be the healthy one, the stable one, the honest one for your kids.


divorced the Dooosh
*****************************
even if you find your voice,
sometimes it does not matter anymore,
when you speak to a man who is deaf by choice.
~dodinsky

Posts: 3612 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: Happyville
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 9:03 AM, May 26th (Sunday)

Hi, Everyone,

WW is stalling on first mediation meeting, angrily using her work schedule as an excuse.

I do not believe mediation will go well to say the least, as it requires civility and respect. She is not emotionally stable and I don't trust her. I'm thinking I should just grit my teeth and file (tons more money than mediation and it could drag on) for ultimate protection.

Advice?


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
woundedwidow
Member
Member # 36869
Default  Posted: 9:14 AM, May 26th (Sunday)

1. She's still actively in the affair and has even brought the OM to YOUR home.

2. She has NO interest in anything relating to your well-being or the health of your family.

3. YOU need to be strong for you and your kids.

4. Hire a shark attorney and FILE.


Be careful what you wish for the most - you may get it.

Posts: 395 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: VA
heartbroken_kk
Member
Member # 22722
Default  Posted: 11:29 AM, May 26th (Sunday)

Hi, I have been reading but haven't posted yet.

I am one of those who spent YEARS in the BS fog and desperately wanted to save my M. I became deeply depressed and suicidal. It took lots of therapy and AD meds to get me through.

What really helped me the most was finally understanding that we REALLY WERE DONE BECAUSE I WAS DONE.

Learn about the 180. Do it 100% for you. Do not concern yourself with her.

Establish a set of NC rules for you. DO NOT ANSWER HER CALLS. LIMIT IN PERSON DISCUSSION AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. Use email with a good backup and secure new password. Get a new email account and put all comms with her through that so there is a written record. Keep a journal by writing emails to yourself.

Learn about boundaries. They protect you from the abuses of others. Establish them as limits/absolutes on YOUR behavior. They are if...then statements. If she does X, then I do Y. Focus on the "I do Y" part as that is the only thing you can control. Learn to control YOUR behavior so you stop being so impulsive and flaky.

Examples: If... she brings the AP to my home I will protect my home by changing the locks. If she calls I will let it go to voicemail and respond by email.

Focus on your behavior. Start acting in your own best interest, and your kids. You are getting a D. Stick to that decision.


BW then 46, STBXWHNPDPAFTG the destroyer of my entire life.
D-Day 1 1999, D-Day 2,3,4,5,6... 2009 thru 2011.

Separated, divorcing, moving on.
I edit because I always make typos.


Posts: 1220 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: California
Chrysalis123
Member
Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 12:15 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

WW is stalling on first mediation meeting, angrily using her work schedule as an excuse.

This is what I would do. I would ask my lawyer to begin the divorce and file. I would ask my lawyer to send a letter that begins with something like:

since you won't mediate we are filing....except it would be written in lawyer-lingo.

You do nothing. Your lawyer handles it all.

You CANNOT force her to behave in a loving way. She is not a friend to you or your kids.

The only thing you have control of is you. .


Don’t get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well. 

Posts: 2706 | Registered: Jan 2010
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 12:21 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

Hi,

WW just left after kid exchange. We talked about the divorce. She expressed that she still believes we will get back together/remarry after the divorce. I told her, gently, that that's not going to happen. That I am going to move on.

She burst into tears, said, "Then so am I. This is not working out like I encisioned," and stormed out angrily, saying she was going to get a lawyer.

I don't know if I should have kept this to myself, but I felt it needed to be said since she was being so blasé about the ruination of our family with this divorce that she forced my hand to initiate.

Thoughts? Analysis of what the hell she is thinking?


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 12:36 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

Thoughts? Analysis of what the hell she is thinking?
This biggest leap I made in my healing was when I realized that what my STBX was thinking was IRRELEVANT. It's no longer about her. It's ALL About you and your KIDS. You will never know what she is thinking. This will take time to sink in but it will sink in eventually.

Take what she just told you at face value. Whether she gets a lawyer or not is irrelevant. What is relevant is that you go retain a lawyer if you haven't and protect yourself and your children. She has already shown you that she will not mediate. This is the 2nd time she has cancelled with the added remark of she is getting a lawyer.

Go see your lawyer on Tuesday morning.

ETA: This is the same behavior she has shown you before. She will cycle between anger, outbursts, sadness and eventually she is just going to settle on just plain mean and trying to screw you for all you are worth during a D. Remember in her mind this is your fault and your behavior lately is just reinforcing what she already believes. Is that true, of course not, but like I said trying to figure her out will just keep you in the cesspool of pain with her. You can't control her so let her go and focus on you. Every time you engage with her when you don't absolutely have to it's going to be a setback in your healing until you reach indifference.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 12:47 PM, May 26th (Sunday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1910 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
DeadMumWalking
Member
Member # 25341
Default  Posted: 12:46 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

She expressed that she still believes we will get back together/remarry after the divorce.

You: um hmmm, that's nice.

her: blah blah fuckity blah.

You: um hmmm, I see.

her: blah blah etc......

You: I'm sorry you feel that way....oh is that the time already, got to go now.

You get the picture. Don't engage.

Don't tell her what you are going to do, JUST DO IT. Hire a shark, consult with as many local sharks as you can (which will hopefully prevent her from hiring them), and get your lawyer to do all the engaging. She says anything to you about it, your reply is 'my attorney is handling the divorce'.

Please just disengage from her and her antics.

Oh yeah, if she has moved out then see (with the lawyer) about getting temporary orders ordering exclusive use of the family home to you, and then change the locks (or add an additional lock and 'forget' to give her the key).

Fasten your seatbelt, you are NOT going to have an easy time of it. Mediated divorce with her??? I think not.....

((((Abbondad))))


Me (BS), Him (WH): early 50's
3 DS: teens!!! :)
M: 25 (19 1/2 at Dday), Together 30
Dday: Dec 2008
Limbo-ish, again (after multiple S) -- weighing my options

Posts: 2606 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: EU
ButterflyGirl
Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 1:02 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

Good for you. You've been doing great, besides the fact that you called her and you talked to her in person. You really need to start limiting this to email and text. Then you can think about your responses first. And you can take some time to decide if it really needs a response.. And this will give you a much-needed paper trail, and it will help you detach from her.

My guess is that you've finally started to put your foot down with her, and she's PISSED that she doesn't have you as a back-up/soft place to land anymore. This is going to get a lot worse, and I hope you are prepared. You really have to let go of the thought that you can control her, that how you act will change how she acts towards you. I wish there was something I could do to change how my STBX treats me, but there just isn't.. I can only distance myself and try not to let him make me feel bad when he blameshifts and gaslights me. Please don't take any responsibility for her actions. She's losing her shit right now since she can't believe you aren't willing to be her doormat anymore. You are surprising her and confusing her. But the ultimate goal is to be indifferent to what she thinks or does.

My advice is to STOP talking to her about the OM. She is allowed to do whatever she wants now, and the more you get upset over it and tell her what she can and can't do, you are really being the glue that holds them together. LET HER GO. Let her really live in her own yard and see how the grass is over there.. It's not going to be pretty..

Things are falling apart for my STBX and his MOW (and the twink he's cheating on her with), but I am NOT going to be there when the shit hits the fan. I was very co-dependent before, as I can see you are too, so of course the urge is there to "save" them and stop them from hurting themselves and the children and prove what loving caring people we are by helping them out. I think you need to realize that she's a big girl, and she's making her own decisions, and she needs to deal with her actions and the consequences. Please do your best to ignore her and focus on yourself and what's best for you right now.

You've been handling a lot of situations very well, like the request for helping her with the packages. You were right to deny her and let her deal with her own problems. Yes, she was probably going to ask her OM to help her. But think how that might have annoyed him, and maybe he will start realizing that he liked the dirty secretive fantasy sex, but he didn't really want all the responsibility of a true relationship with her. This is exactly where she has been cake eating. Having all the fun with him and depending on you for everything else. Try to keep your thoughts and feelings about them to yourself. Let them fall apart all on their own. She probably told him what you said about him helping her, and that kind of thing just makes them closer. Now he's not just annoyed what she asked of him, he's feeling like he is competing with you, and he thinks he's winning, and he thinks he's her knight in shining armor. Had you stayed out of it and not mentioned this to her, then he's back to just being annoyed that he had to help her..

My advice is still to file. She is NOT your problem anymore. To her, you standing up and protecting yourself is hurting her, and she will tell you that, but you have to stop feeling bad for doing what's best for you..

Big hugs..


xBW~ 35
Two DS~ 7-Eleven
"I've wiped the shit off. It can be wiped off you know." ~ asurvivor

Posts: 2304 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 1:56 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

Wife called... Yeah, I know. But I need to share these gems:

"You made it clear you are done. You are moving on. Well so am I. I am done with this game."

"You made your bed."

Sigh...

Texts only. Kids and finances.... Keep repeating to self...


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
ButterflyGirl
Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 2:03 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

She is blameshifting and trying to take some control back. Now SHE'S done with YOU, so she ended it, and don't you forget that

I'm glad you are seeing how ridiculous her words are. You know they make no sense, and they are just being used to try to manipulate you. Perhaps you are starting to realize why it's best not to listen to that crap or engage with her in the first place..


xBW~ 35
Two DS~ 7-Eleven
"I've wiped the shit off. It can be wiped off you know." ~ asurvivor

Posts: 2304 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
Chrysalis123
Member
Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 2:57 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

Don't tell her what you are going to do, JUST DO IT. Hire a shark, consult with as many local sharks as you can (which will hopefully prevent her from hiring them), and get your lawyer to do all the engaging. She says anything to you about it, your reply is 'my attorney is handling the divorce'.


THIS!!


Why are you answering the phone? Let it go to voicemail. NC. NC. NC


Don’t get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well. 

Posts: 2706 | Registered: Jan 2010
ButterflyGirl
Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 3:23 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

I just wanted to add, it's tempting to get them to see the light and to defend yourself. When they accuse you of things, the urge is to correct them and explain how things really are. But my honest opinion is that they do get it, they are just CHOOSING to pretend they don't so they can continue to blameshift and gaslight. You don't need to explain anything to her or defend yourself anymore. She knows, she just doesn't care. Her words are weapons of manipulation against you.

I know it's hard to accept that this is who she really is, but you will feel a lot better when you do.. She is going to try very hard to blame you for everything, and you can't change that, so please, IGNORE HER!! She will continue to try to contact you. Again and again. And get you to engage. And put you on the defensive and in a position of having to explain yourself. Don't fall for it. No contact doesn't mean she won't contact you. It means DON'T RESPOND to her attempts at contacting you and getting you to engage.. She doesn't deserve your feelings on the situation anymore. The more you pretend you don't care what she has to say, the more you will detach and actually stop caring what she has to say..

Hugs Abbondad. I know this is so very hard, but you are getting stronger and healing more every day, I promise..


xBW~ 35
Two DS~ 7-Eleven
"I've wiped the shit off. It can be wiped off you know." ~ asurvivor

Posts: 2304 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
Vulcanized
Member
Member # 33523
Default  Posted: 3:23 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

Wife called... Yeah, I know. But I need to share these gems:
"You made it clear you are done. You are moving on. Well so am I. I am done with this game."

"You made your bed."

You: OK

[This message edited by Vulcanized at 3:24 PM, May 26th (Sunday)]


Me: MH 40s; Him: MH 40s (I had RA)
OW: 30s, moron; one of many
M: 8 yrs
3/13: D'd
-----------------------------------------------------------
Everything is as it should be.

Posts: 762 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Vulcania
Dark Inertia
Member
Member # 30727
Default  Posted: 3:26 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

I maintained my composure. I told her to respect our sacred home.

Why do you even say that much? Just tell her, look if he comes over again I am calling the cops on trespassing issues. You are too nice.


"If I listened earlier, I wouldn't be here. But that's just the trouble with me. I give myself very good advice, but I very seldom follow it."

Posts: 1280 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: The Ohio
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 3:47 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

"You made your bed."

You: OK

That is actually exactly what I said! I literally bit my tongue as I began to retort incredulously, "I made MY bed?"

But I caught myself and limited myself to what is currently, for me, the most powerful word in the English language: "OK."

Yay for me. Life really is comprised of minor victories.

Oh, and to gain the upper hand, SHE said she doesn't want to talk to me any more--only text and about the kids. Hey, that was MY line to HER a mere week and a half ago!

What gives?


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 4:03 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

Just some thoughts--maybe repetitious ones to those who have been following my threads for seven months. And I express these no longer with shock, since I have moved well past it, well past denial. I am still in terrible pain and loneliness, but I now believe I will reach acceptance.

Anyway, these are my thoughts looking back over these months ever since what I consider the real D-Day, November 12, 2012:

I really did keep believing we would have a happy ending to our story. Yes, paradoxically I also believed all of you as well when you suggested otherwise. Strange bedfellows, these two voices.

It is really true when I say my wife and I had a great love story. These were the words we both often used to characterize our marriage. We fell deeply, madly in love, at the perfect time and for all the right reasons.

Children came along, and this brought the usual stress, but through it all we remained very much in love, very happy to have found each other. The love of our lives, our soulmates. The whole thing. Just a deep, deep intimate connection on every level.

So I really believed (OK, wanted desperately to believe) that this love would carry us through, even past this ongoing shock. But it didn't. It just didn't.

I am the same as so many others here: if someone had told me this would happen to us--us!--I would have scorned him. In fact--and this was a running joke I would say to friends and family, much to my wife's amusement and agreement:

"If she ever cheated on me or left me, I would think she had lost her mind."

I know it's not technically over--divorce proceedings have not even begun--but it's over. Our great love story has ended. It turns out to have been a tragedy after all, with nothing remaining on the stage but destruction and littered hope and dreams.

I am sad. I miss my wife, who may or may not have lost her mind. I miss my happy family, in which I had found my life and world. I had such a wonderful family growing up, and all I ever wanted was to repeat this as a husband and father.

Infidelity. Just... Infidelity.

Strength to all.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
Vulcanized
Member
Member # 33523
Default  Posted: 4:07 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

Sorry, Abbondad, there is no strikeout key on here.

You need to stop w/the emotional response: you made your bed. Instead, OK. Neutral, you've heard her, you aren't arguing w/her feelings.

The more you argue w/her feelings, the more enmeshed she becomes, regardless of whether or not she really believes them. As in she'll disagree just to disagree.

Dial it way back, as others are telling you. Kids/finances. NOTHING else.


Me: MH 40s; Him: MH 40s (I had RA)
OW: 30s, moron; one of many
M: 8 yrs
3/13: D'd
-----------------------------------------------------------
Everything is as it should be.

Posts: 762 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Vulcania
Grace and Flowers
Member
Member # 34431
Default  Posted: 6:40 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

I wish you would go back and read ALL these pages written for you. Just in this ONE day (today)...HOW many times have you engaged with her? You keep saying you get it...you know you shouldn't...and then do the EXACT OPPOSITE. At this point, for your own health, you should quit ANY verbal communication with her. And perhaps just use email if your text will be read by your son.

I hope that one day you can really start NC, but it's clear that's not today.

And because you are not willing to go NC with her, get yourself a lawyer...not a mediator....who will take over the communication for you. Yes, it will be expensive, but you not only need protection FOR yourself in the divorce, you need protection FROM yourself.


I'm Happy, not Sad!

Posts: 1174 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: US
Heal&Deal
Member
Member # 30910
Default  Posted: 9:36 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

I have followed your posts and refrained from posting, but really I must chime in:

1) Make a list of the local "sharks" and start setting up consults.
2) Hire the shark you like best.
3) FILE!

The emotional shit takes time. It does. It is a special kind of crazy you have going on there and that is not going to stop; however you can help protect your finances, your kids' interest and your longterm viability, by taking this step.

Also, please get a different family counselor, Seriously, some of the advice you have been given defies logic.

Last, a texted picture to me once landed on my 3 year old's IPOD. It happens.


Posts: 917 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: USA
JamieMc
Member
Member # 37776
Default  Posted: 12:24 AM, May 27th (Monday)

Dad, hugs to you tonight.) I do understand that what you want is your family back together, husband wife and two kids all happily living together under one roof. Sadly, unless a miracle occurs, that ain't happening:( Please, for the sake of your kids and your well-being, try to make a good life for you & your kiddos- minus your WW. I wish you strength, you can PM at any time. All the best Jamie (((Dad)))


BS early 50's Wh also early 50's. I am Jamie, Mom to 3 great teens/young adults. My WH and I have been together more than half of our lives and married 25+. We are in MC & going to give R our best shot, hoping and praying for a better 2013!

Posts: 112 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: USA
SBB
Member
Member # 35229
Default  Posted: 5:01 AM, May 27th (Monday)

Dude, stop calling her your wife.


I may have reached a point where I'd piss on him if he was on fire.... eventually!!

Posts: 5609 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Australia
debbysbaby
Member
Member # 32962
Default  Posted: 7:35 AM, May 27th (Monday)

Dude, stop calling her your wife

This actually might be helpful. The term "husband" or "wife" carries many powerful feelings and assumptions with it...ones you no longer need to associate with your STBXW. It might be an exercise in detachment to call her STBX, or you can get really creative and fun with it like many of us in D/S. Mine XH is poopsmear. I just picture this skid mark in a smelly pair of underwear when I refer to him that way. Certainly helps me not have fond feelings to do so. Perhaps some other creative SIers have some suggestions for a moniker for her?


-betrayed almost my whole almost 15 yr marriage
-divorced since 2004

Posts: 880 | Registered: Aug 2011
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:08 AM, May 27th (Monday)

Good morning, friends,

Just a positive update re: baby steps and small victories.

I had my son last night. (I don't usually reference my sweet six year old daughter only because she doesn't really understand what is going on and thus is fine, at least for now. She thinks it's cool to have two homes).

He started having anxiety and panic and wanted to go to his mom at her apartment. (Note: when he is at her apartment he has the same reaction and wants to be with me.)

He called his mom (unbeknownst to me) and told her. I told her I'd handle it and he was not going there.

I laid down with him, held him, talked to him, got him to express some of his fears, and ultimately led him through his emotional episode. I let him have a sleepover and he enjoyed his night with dad.

This morning not a word about mom from him. We have fun plans today.

N/C front: wife called him to say goodnight. He said, "Want to say goodnight to daddy?" I indicated to him casually that I didn't, and he said, "Mommy, daddy said he already talked to you." And he hung up.

It was hard for me and I shed some tears after, as well as this morning. (The hardest is going to sleep without her and waking up without her.)

Anyway, I am proud of myself. My vow for today: N/C!

I hope to report success with this tonight.

As always, thank you!


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
realitybites
Member
Member # 6908
Default  Posted: 8:26 AM, May 27th (Monday)

I will agree that your journey has taken alot of hills and valleys. Going NC and doing the 180 is not easy. Many of us on here can tell you that we got beat up ALOT trying to get it thru our thick sculls (and heart) that it was the only way to actual healing.

Like anything else in life you never know you are on the other side until you are *really* on the other side. So take each day with your small victories. Each one leads you to the next.

Wear a rubber band on your wrist, snap it each time you think you are going to call her or email her or text her....sounds so stupid but it really works! Even if she calls you don't pick up the phone. You will start to see a pattern.

You are getting there.


Posts: 5672 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: florida
Dawn58
Member
Member # 37656
Default  Posted: 11:23 AM, May 27th (Monday)

Hugs Abbondad.......

I do not have children with the pig, so my situation is different in that regard....

But I so know the feelings you are having. My Dday was 11.25.12, so in a similar place.

No, I don't want a divorce, and yes, I still love the man I married. Do I want to be in this nightmare, hell no........

Do I want to be married to a man that cheated on me, deceived me for 4 months, the last few weeks we were together, treated me with total contempt and disdain???? The feelings of utter confusion I had during that time, trying to figure out what I did to "deserve" such treatment???? No, I don't.

The loneliness is overwhelming....I miss the life I thought I had.

My son is 23 and away at college. He was 14 when I divorced his Dad (his dad started to get physically abusive with him, he treated me like shit, but when it started with my son, that was it).

What I have found out for myself over the past 6 months, any contact I had with him resulted in gut wrenching pain, hurt and tears. I saw the two of them together and slammed into a very dark place. I use to check up on him, ask friends how he was doing, again, slammed into that pain again, back on a ball on the floor, sobbing....

I decided I couldn't keep doing that.....so I changed my phone numbers, blocked his emails and told my attorney that any further contact went through the attorneys. He was lying regarding any conversation we had (the last was over my moving my son's things out of the house). That opened up the flood gate and he started to text me again. So, that's when I decided to take the action that I did.

Now, my stomach no longer knots up when I hear a text come in, or the phone ring.

I did have a slip though, unblocked his email (moment of weakness) and he did email me last week to ask me for the code to get the messages off the home phone......I immediately went into my computer and blocked his emails again. Did not respond to him. My first reaction when I saw his email was the same pit in my stomach feeling, so I need to protect myself right now and give myself space.

I keep telling myself that the man I married is dead, gone. The person that is there now, is a lying, cheating pig. I have no respect for this pig now.


I got into the marriage, because I loved him. I got out of the marriage, because I love me.

Posts: 479 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Southern California
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 2:11 PM, May 27th (Monday)

Good stuff in your latest update abbondad! Glad you have some fun stuff planned with you kids. Make it a point to have something interesting or fun to do with them each time you are with them. It gives them something to look forward to and keeps you busy as well. Watch how focusing on them keeps you calm. The next step will be applying those same principles to yourself. Make a plan of things that you can do when your kids are with her. Staying busy really does help.

Just remember, one day at a time. You are doing great.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1910 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
ButterflyGirl
Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 3:11 PM, May 27th (Monday)

Hi Abbondad. I agree that's a great update!

I'd just like to share that I have gone back and forth between which of my kids is having more trouble with the changes.. Sometimes I'm more worried about my 9-year-old, and sometimes my 5-year-old seems to be having more issues. I would recommend spending loving one-on-one time with each of them, letting them each know how special they are..

Hope you have a wonderful day today! Hugs!!


xBW~ 35
Two DS~ 7-Eleven
"I've wiped the shit off. It can be wiped off you know." ~ asurvivor

Posts: 2304 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
JamieMc
Member
Member # 37776
Default  Posted: 10:50 PM, May 27th (Monday)

((Dad)) Sounds like you are really heading in a + direction! And you wouldn't be a feeling, loving person if you didn't feel sad @ sleeping without her. But, she is NOT healthy for you & your kiddos, so this too will pass. All the best Jamie


BS early 50's Wh also early 50's. I am Jamie, Mom to 3 great teens/young adults. My WH and I have been together more than half of our lives and married 25+. We are in MC & going to give R our best shot, hoping and praying for a better 2013!

Posts: 112 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: USA
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 6:45 AM, May 28th (Tuesday)

Hi, Everyone,

Thanks for continuing to follow my thread.

Yesterday's 180 was pretty good. N/C until evening, when my son had an anxiety attack wanting his mom and called her. She wanted to talk to me so we did, briefly, about what to do about our son. She is all for more medication, and I am not. He is already on meds as a result of all this.

Anyway, I give myself a B+.

But it was very very hard. I cried throughout the day. It seems to come out of nowhere--no obvious triggers. Very disconcerting to have no control over one's emotions.

I have a question. Actually a fear that I will discuss in therapy today.

My fear is that even after the divorce I will still be in this pain; nothing will have changed except that my life will be even more dismantled. That divorce will not be the empowering or cathartic experience I hope for.

I am not telling myself, "OK then, just stay separated." No. I am just very concerned that I will be even more traumatized by the process, in addition to all the other awful emotions I am currently mired in.

So many people here seem so strong. Did divorce help with this? Were you weaker and in more pain prior to the divorce? What did the divorce do for you in terms of healing?

Thank you!


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
ninebark
Member
Member # 24534
Default  Posted: 6:50 AM, May 28th (Tuesday)

Abbondad,

I was terrified of divorce, I didn't want my life to change at all!! For two years I was willing to try to work on my marriage, but I think I was alone in that effort. It was like trying to bail out a leaking boat with a hole filled bucket. He ended the A, he was transparent, but he was unwilling to work on any of his own personal problems.

I started to do things that made me happy, went out with friends, started running with my son, lost weight. Found my self confidence again and realized that there was nothing I could do to fix my marriage, and I was no longer happy.

I ended things, we separated, I took over the house and am essentially raising our son on my own as he works out of province a lot.

You know what, I am so much stronger than I ever gave myself credit for. I took up new hobbies, started doing things I never ever considered doing such as martial arts. I have a great time doing things with my son, and my friends. I am so very happy.

Change is not always bad, you will eventally find that strength when you are ready. Don't despair, things will get better and when the time comes and your heart is ready you can find someone who loves you they way you deserve


BS (me) 40
WH - 48
Married 12 years
DS - 12
D-day 06/21/09
Separated....hopefully divorcing soon.

Posts: 630 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Canada
LonelyHusband
Member
Member # 34145
Default  Posted: 7:20 AM, May 28th (Tuesday)

My fear is that even after the divorce I will still be in this pain; nothing will have changed except that my life will be even more dismantled. That divorce will not be the empowering or cathartic experience I hope for.

you will still in pain, and naturally so. You'll still grieve for the relationship and company you lost.

But, and it's a massive but, you will heal. It will all be in one direction. It will get better and better. It will get easier and easier. You will become more and more pain free. Life will become more and more stable for you and the kids as routines fall into place. That's really the difference. the divorce doesn't mean instant relief. It's a fixed point in time beyond which you heal. At the moment, all your doing is delaying the start of the process. So you are not healing and the health of you and your children is spiralling downhill as you are saying. Whilst I've hated seeing you go through this agony, I do admire your fortitude. However, it has to end at some point and I think you are so nearly there now I have hope for your future and that of your children.

best wishes

LH

[This message edited by LonelyHusband at 7:22 AM, May 28th (Tuesday)]


BS ( me) 41
fWS (OktoberMest) 35
D day #1 29/10/2011, D day #2 15/112011, D day #3 15/03/2012
Reconciling.
“It’s better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all”, is inadequate consolation when you vacuum up a child's hamster'

Posts: 1290 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: UK
debbysbaby
Member
Member # 32962
Default  Posted: 7:44 AM, May 28th (Tuesday)

Dad, it will get worse before it gets better. Trust me on that. But just like when you first start an exercise routine, and all your muscles are killing you, you just push through it knowing that in time you will be better off. The pain will eventually transform into greater strength.

I think I was one year out from the divorce when I finally knew that there is no way no matter what my ex did that would inspire me to take him back. It was at that point that life divorced from him was better than any life married to him had ever been. And that is because I had finally realized that even though I initially thought the beginning of our relationship was so good, and I longed for that back, I realized it had been a mask.

Like others have said, I began to pursue some of my own personal interests. Things I'd given up years before, and things I thought I might like to do. I started doing some volunteer work in my time without my children. I volunteered at the local animal shelters and with rescue transport. I began to write, and draw again and take up some photography. So what I can say is you'll somewhat have to fake it until you make it. Eventually you will have a vision of yourself whole and complete without her. You will be able to believe that moment in time will come because you will feel the improvement. If you're like me, you'll wish that your marriage could have been different, but will accept that it wasn't, and you'll be okay in spite of it. That old adage about time. It just takes time. How much time will depend on your commitment to your healing. If you get stuck in self-pity or the past it will take much longer. And occasionally, there are people who never seem to get over it but I think those people have serious issues that needed addressing but never were. You're doing the right things by being in IC and working to make things better.

Steel your self for this ride ahead. As I said, look for it to get harder before it gets better. Keep your eye on the prize which will be a good financial settlement and the best position you can secure for yourself and your children.


-betrayed almost my whole almost 15 yr marriage
-divorced since 2004

Posts: 880 | Registered: Aug 2011
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 8:14 AM, May 28th (Tuesday)

My fear is that even after the divorce I will still be in this pain; nothing will have changed except that my life will be even more dismantled. That divorce will not be the empowering or cathartic experience I hope for.

Ninebark and LH covered what I would have said. I actually think ninebark might possible be my SI twin since I could have typed her first 2 paragraphs word for word and they would have applied to me. I initially had 2 takes on D. Divorce by itself isn't cathartic or empowering. My 1st take was D is the legal destruction of a bond that two people once took very seriously and in many cases made before GOD. The 2nd which I got to a little later was it's nothing more than a legal formality saying we are done and WW is no longer entitled to half my shit.

Getting to that second definition in my head involved the carthartic and empowering stuff. This is where it all is up to YOU. Yes you will mourn the M as all of us did but this is the part about it not defining you. This is the heal yourself part. The more focus you put on you, digging into your issues, and figuring out what you want out of life for you and your children helps big time. Make a genuine effort every single day to get up and say I am going to do something fun/exciting/positive today and the negative thoughts and fear fade away. The more you work at it the easier it gets because the vision of things we have in our heads are often much worse then reality. Fear turns into possibilities, hope, and freedom. Yes you will still have bad days. I still on occasion get in a funk but I can get out of it pretty quickly. On those bad days you will remember the string of good days you put together and realize you are actually okay after all.

Here comes the broken record part. Get that list of stuff out man and start living your life again. It's scary at first but that's the cathartic and empowering part no matter what stage of S or D you are in. You don't have to wait for an official D to start changing and living your life again. My official S doesn't start for another month and I have 1 year after that before the D can be final but I started working on me before I even found the courage to file. It really does help. You are doing great, keep posting and keep working on you.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1910 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
Chrysalis123
Member
Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 8:20 AM, May 28th (Tuesday)

So many people here seem so strong. Did divorce help with this? Were you weaker and in more pain prior to the divorce? What did the divorce do for you in terms of healing?

You know that song with the words "When you're going through hell keep on going, don't look back?"

That applies here!

I was curled up on my bed in a fetal position for months. I cried/sobbed every day for a year. I was terrified, and needed help from AD, therapist, Alanon.

That was 6 years ago. I barely think about that time now. And when I do I give thanks for the lessons learned.

Is it what I wanted to happen? No, but it is what happened. My first job in healing was accepting that my life had taken a turn I did not want.


Don’t get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well. 

Posts: 2706 | Registered: Jan 2010
ButterflyGirl
Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 8:35 AM, May 28th (Tuesday)

Good morning! Just my thoughts on your latest post, if I may..

She wanted to talk to me so we did, briefly, about what to do about our son.

The biggest issue I have with this is that it was a phone call. NO MORE PHONE CALLS OR FACE-TO-FACE CONTACT!! EMAIL OR TEXT ONLY!! She could very easily start her son on medication or her own counselor or anything else she wants to and state that she had your verbal permission to do this. YOU NEED A PAPER TRAIL of these discussions!!

Very disconcerting to have no control over one's emotions.

You DO have control over your emotions. Believe me, I know it's very, very difficult, but you must take your power back. She DOES NOT have control over your emotions anymore. She never did really. Just as you don't have control over her emotions. You are stronger and smarter than you think!!

My fear is that even after the divorce I will still be in this pain; nothing will have changed except that my life will be even more dismantled. That divorce will not be the empowering or cathartic experience I hope for.

This are tons people with this fear. I thinks LOTS of us feel it. But really, you will start acting on emotions when you realize leaving that situation will be more empowering and cathartic for you than staying in the one you are in right now..

"OK then, just stay separated."

Just even seeing this quote makes me think a small part of you still holds on that she will pull her head out of her ass, and I truly believe that as soon as you fully pull your head out of your ass and give her the full effects of this separation and eventual divorce will be the time she either pulls her head out of her ass or leaves you for good (though she will continue her attempts at manipulating you). You keep leaving those few strings around that allow her to keep messing with your head. She is grasping at any string she can find and you need to TAKE THEM ALL AWAY!! STOP giving her those strings to pull at you. Or at the very least, STOP showing her that there are still strings she could pull. She needs to hit rock bottom here with this.

(Though I doubt it), once you pull ALL those strings away, this MAY (a big MAYBE) could lead to her finally waking up and truly begging for this relationship back as she realizes the horror of her choices, and she might actually make some genuine changes. Believe me, if you told us things she was saying and doing that sounded like real remorse, like "I'm so sorry, I can't believe what I've done to my family, I can't believe what I've put you through, this is all my fault," and you really thought she meant these things and backed them up with actions, this might so show good progress (notice all those statements have everything to do with what she did and NOTHING to do with what you did). But so far I've only heard anger and pity from her and her constantly telling you what you've done wrong and blameshifting and gaslighting. She STILL isn't taking any responsibility for what she has done and is blaming everything on you. We have only heard her blameshiting and gaslighting and using you and doing every trick in the back to manipulate you into this toxic relationship..

And even if she did sound sincere, you are a long way off from a healthy relationship with her. That kind of stuff would have to be more than words, it would have to be actions, and from what you've posted so far, this woman only has words to manipulate you with no real actions to back up her wishes for a true reconciliation.. I would really try to squash any more hopes of this happening. When you do that, you will either have a woman who is worth taking a few an extra look at, completely ignoring her words and only looking at her actions, but my guess is that the more you detach and ignore her, the more you will really start to get away from this woman and really start to heal. DETACH!

You really need to start to heal from this no matter what she does. Please just forget about trying to figure her out right now and FOCUS on you!! This will help you be strong enough to stand up for yourself no matter what she does..

Did divorce help with this? Were you weaker and in more pain prior to the divorce? What did the divorce do for you in terms of healing?

YES. The divorce definitely helped with this. I was definitely more weak and in more pain prior to the divorce. Once I filed, a feeling of calm set over me as he was not able to hurt me financially anymore, and there were rules to our relationship outside of the ones we so stupidly tried to create for ourselves. It gave a third party with a lot more power control over the situation as I needed help. An attorney absolutely has more experience in this type of stuff and does not have all the emotions to go along with it, so he will be your best ally in this and will be completely focused on you and protecting you and your assets.. I felt A LOT better after retaining my attorney. It takes tons of the burden off and did not require my ex and I to come to decisions together. It gave me what I consider an MMA fighter in my corner..

It's so very hard to do this on your own. Pick the best attorney you can find and let them deal with her. You can not fix this toxic relationship with her on your own, as much as you want to, so get yourself some back-up.

Big hugs to you!!


xBW~ 35
Two DS~ 7-Eleven
"I've wiped the shit off. It can be wiped off you know." ~ asurvivor

Posts: 2304 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
LoveRising
New Member
Member # 38688
Default  Posted: 8:55 AM, May 28th (Tuesday)

I saw you comment on another thread this morning, Dad and I felt compelled to give you some feedback. You bemoaned the fact that your wife went to the OM for help with her car when you were "unable to" and you called her out in that thread for saying that you "refused" to help.

That was quite the spin on the situation. You DID refuse to -- as you should have. That stuff is not your job anymore -- as has been pointed out over and over again in these threads!!!

I am not calling you out on the way you spin things just to beat you up. But the seeming repeating thread here is that you are holding on, holding on, holding on and seeing yourself as nothing but a victim. The victim role, the pity party in your head, needs to stop in order for you to start moving forward. Yes you are taking baby steps and perhaps that is the best you can do for now. But your attitudes must change before you can achieve any type of longterm behavioral change. You have to tell your self over and over and over again -- put post-its on your mirror "She is no longer my responsibility." When you internalize the new attitude/belief, it will be a hell of a lot easier to enact the 180 behavior you want to.

I am not an expert at surviving infidelity, which is why I read often here but post little. But what I've said here, I believe to be true and have experienced in my own recovery and as I've faced other problems in my life.

Quit thinking of yourself as the victim. Yes, her actions toward you were wrong and undeserved. But as long as YOU leave yourself, emotionally, in a shirt with the word VICTIM across the front, you will be treated as one and you will live like one. Start taking your power back.


Posts: 35 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Oregon
Grace and Flowers
Member
Member # 34431
Default  Posted: 9:19 AM, May 28th (Tuesday)

Just because she wanted to talk to you, doesn't mean you should. Stop talking to her.

t/j: my own DS has cancer. WXH and I only communicate via text, unless there is an emergency. It CAN be done.

I'm not sure you're "there" yet, mentally. But when you can, a great book to read is Getting Past Your Breakup by Susan Elliott. It has wonderful exercises to do to help you heal. It is one of the things that helped me most in dealing with my divorce.

Of course, the first thing she says to do IS NO CONTACT!

There is now way that any of this will be easy. It will get worse before it gets better. But listen to the other posters above. It DOES get better. But you have to be proactive in your healing, and not wallow. For now, just take it minute by minute.


I'm Happy, not Sad!

Posts: 1174 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: US
ladies_first
Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 10:21 AM, May 28th (Tuesday)

My fear is that even after the divorce I will still be in this pain; nothing will have changed except that my life will be even more dismantled. That divorce will not be the empowering or cathartic experience I hope for.
Getting married doesn't solve problems, nor does getting divorced.

Your emotions will start to heal when you have the cancer removed. STOP engaging with her!!

D.E.T.A.C.H.

Don't
Even
Think
About
Calling/Contacting/Changing/Comforting
Her

[This message edited by ladies_first at 10:23 AM, May 28th (Tuesday)]


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 1:18 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

AD - I am glad that you found your way back. I just wanted to say you are making progress, and doing more than you have done to resolve the situation than the previous 2 years.

Yes it hurts, yes you are sad. That is OK. You need to start healing and that will take time.

As far as it goes with your son, I would like to say that you probably need to set some small boundaries with him. He only contacts mom when he has already shared his fears/concerns/anxieties with you, and feels unresolved. This constant calling her without you knowing is undermining your ability to be a good dad.
He needs to know that you have the ability to help just as much if not more than mom does. Once that is established you will be the go to guy for him.

Lastly try to maintain NC, ,and is off balance as your STBXW has shown herself to be, I would strongly reccomend that you record each and every conversation that you have. She is a master manipulator, and I fear she will turn things around and make you out to be the bad guy if you do not protect yourself. Hell let her know that you are recording all conversations.

Time to take care of you. Quit worring about her. Worry about making AD the best, strongest, coolest, happiest man around.

((((and strength)))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8698 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 5:46 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

Hi, All,

Hard day.

On the 180 front, an "A." A few kid-related texts, which I responded to politely but curtly.

But a very difficult IC session, from which it took hours to recover--and only now am I decompressing. Had some epiphanies regarding,early childhood abandonment experiences, which helps me understand why I am reacting with so much violent emotion, almost out of proportion to the current situation--impending divorce.

I always sensed something else was going on on a psychobiological level involving fear of abandonment. I mean, sheer panic and anxiety to an extreme. Strange thing is, I have yet to locate its genesis in my past. I had a wonderfully close, secure early family life; I was never abandoned that I can recall.

But I do recall many incidents on which I felt abandoned: summer camp, for example, in which I suffered from extreme separation anxiety. Various romantic breakups or "never weres," when I was tormented by a girl's rebuffing of me.

I always reacted as I am now--an absolute certainty and existential dread that I would always be alone.

Irrational, I know. But it's there, and it's clearly unresolved. I spent the next few hours at home sobbing uncontrollably as I relieved many of these innocuous experiences--when I wasn't truly abandoned but reacted as though I had been.

So as painful as this is, it helps objectify the situation--knowing that losing my wife really isn't the issue, but the Fear of being "left behind."

My therapist believes this is a significant step toward healing. Plus I feel better now. So it passed. Good sign.

I guess it's to a great extent basic human nature--a vestigial reaction to the need to survive, forged over hundreds of thousands of years. Maybe I am just more genetically predisposed to it. I have always been an extremely sensitive individual.

But here I sit in Starbucks having a cup of mint tea, and life doesn't feel so horrible as it did a few hours ago.

But an additional disturbing episode: my son was outside with his buddies and came in hysterical. Seems he told his friends about the divorce (he can't even bring himself to utter the word) and one of his friends said something that upset him. I never got the full story.

Vent: I texted my wife about it, informing her ahead of her visit of the incident that he will need some extra comforting tonight with her. Her response? Well, he has therapy tomorrow. Did he eat?

It just enrages me. Doesn't she get? This is destroying us,, destroying him. His life will never be the same. He is having his family, his safe world, wrenched from him. Yeah, I know, it will likely get better and all that, but my god, how important is family to her? I want to scream at her, "Fuck meds, fuck therapy; stop your insanely selfish actions and do the right thing as a human being!"

Whew. That's it for now.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 5:51 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

...also just want to add: I apologize if I am not responding quickly to all of,those taking the time to PM me. Your messages are caring and I truly appreciate the time you take to compose them.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
Chrysalis123
Member
Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 6:17 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

This is destroying us,, destroying him

Dad, you are projecting onto your son.

To you, this is destroying....but to your boy? I don't think so.

He will take his cues from you. If you believe it will destroy him.....yeah this probably won't be good.

But, if you behave in a way that shows him that he is a capable and wonderful boy, that had to live through a divorce. That no matter what he has you, and you have his back. And no matter what, he can live and thrive through anything.

Yes, your boy will be sad, and upset. Life will change for you all. But is he washed up and destroyed while still in elementary school?

You get to decide....because he will take his cues from you.


Don’t get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well. 

Posts: 2706 | Registered: Jan 2010
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 6:39 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

Thank you. I am not saying it has destroyed him permanently; but it is destroying him at present. Perhaps there is a better word. He is very very confused. Angry. Mournful. Panicky. Afraid.

And I am doing, I believe and hope, all the right things: I urge him to express very specifically his central fears and do my best to allay them with constant assurance that we/I love him so much and will never ever leave him. I am his daddy and always will be. I hug and kiss him and joke with him until I get him through his episode.

Inwardly, though, I am very angry that our precious boy has to go through this, an innocent victim.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
LoveRising
New Member
Member # 38688
Default  Posted: 6:41 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

...I echo Chrysalis123 100%. And I would add that there is no need to text your wife to tell her about this stuff. Your son shared the episode with friends with you. If he wants to share it with her, let him. If he is "off" at her house, let her get to the bottom of it as you did. If she is not astute enough to do so, then it's doubtful she'll extend extra caring just because you gave her a heads up. Don't look for "kid" or "finance" reasons to contact her. Just because it pertains to those subjects doesn't mean it HAS to be communicated.

Posts: 35 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Oregon
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:06 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

Don't look for "kid" or "finance" reasons to contact her. Just because it pertains to those subjects doesn't mean it HAS to be communicated.

I see your point. Thank you. I am still learning the nuances of N/C and 180 and will hold back next time and first ask myself, "Does this really merit a communication?"


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
ButterflyGirl
Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 9:53 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

This has been one of the biggest problems for me with No Contact. It's not just about only responding and reaching out only regarding kids and finances, but deciding what issues require responding or reaching out.

As I saw one lady put it, she told her WH, "Do not contact me unless it's to tell me to head to the hospital because one of our kids needs a kidney." :-)

If I'm totally honest, your communication with her about your son's problem with his friends really sounded like a dig at your STBXWW. Like, "Look how much damage this divorce is doing, especially to the kids, and you better show him some extra love tonight cause I don't think you are capable of that without me telling you to."

Perhaps your intention was good, but it really sounds like it came off as a dig..

I've recommended this to people before, and I'll recommend it to you. If you get a chance, google "parallel parenting" and see if you can stick with any of it..

I respond ONLY to my STBX when it comes to the basics with the kids, school stuff, schedule changes, doctor appointments, stuff like that, and I try very hard to IGNORE everything else, all his little side digs, all his attempts at discussing other things, all his accusations, everything else. This is especially true when he accuses me of things that just aren't true because I don't have to explain or defend myself to him anymore. He just wants me to engage, and I refuse to do that..

Your wife has shown where her morals are at, and I think you would do best to stop trying to get her to have a conscience. She didn't have one with you, and I'm sorry to say that this is probably going to extend to the kids. She was a terrible wife to you, so there's no reason to expect she will clean up her act when it comes to the kids.. I hope for your sake and mine that having one good parent is enough for now.. She really doesn't care what you have to say anymore, so you are wasting your breath right now..

I think it's great you've been digging deep in IC. That's awesome and shows that you are willing to take a hard look at yourself and recognize your problems and do what you can to work on them. This will help you become a better person and allow you to be a better father and not let any of those difficult traits pass on to them..

Another thought I had about you reaching out to your wife is that perhaps you have a lack of self-esteem when it comes to your parenting, like you were asking for her help regarding the situation. I really hope you keep working on yourself and can come to a point where you feel strong enough to deal with these issues on your own. In fact, you might have to combat a lot of messed up parenting she does, so I would focus on your feelings on your parenting skills in IC as well. I know I do.. I know you love them, as I dearly love my boys, but we could all use some extra techniques and ideas in our toolbox to help us become better parents..

Have a great night Abbondad! You've certainly been making tons of progress


xBW~ 35
Two DS~ 7-Eleven
"I've wiped the shit off. It can be wiped off you know." ~ asurvivor

Posts: 2304 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
LoveRising
New Member
Member # 38688
Default  Posted: 10:15 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

ButterflyGirl raises some good points. One of the biggest struggles in recovery from infidelity and a relationship with an undiagnosed BPD/NPD involves realizing this is just who they are. We hold on to the glimpse of "good" that we would occasionally get and we hope that one day it will just take hold and they will be that way again. We expect that they will be able to function as that person in a relationship with the children. We expect that they can be an OK human being, at least under some circumstances. But the truth of most broken people is that their ability to be "ok" is so unpredictable, that we best not count on it. Quit expecting anything from her. Quit believing that with your guidance and undying love, she'll see the light. She is not well. You can't make her well.

When you can accept these things as truths, when you can internalize them as new beliefs, you will be taking a step toward "making it" (and past "faking it").

I know it's a huge struggle, and I know as well as anyone the strong desire to answer the phone in the middle of the night and just make it all better. To find reasons to call, text, email and show how much you care, because surely that will be enough to get her back to her senses, see the light, and get well. You don't have that power with her. But you have the power to change your own thinking and therefore your experience.

You are making huge strides this week!


Posts: 35 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Oregon
FieldsOfLavender
Member
Member # 39154
Default  Posted: 10:49 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

Our home is sacred.

I feel the same way. When WH moves out, I told him NOT to bring his whore into the house or near the house when he is dropping off our child or at any time!!


Posts: 198 | Registered: May 2013 | From: East Coast, USA
LoveRising
New Member
Member # 38688
Default  Posted: 11:10 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

"do my best to allay them with constant assurance that we/I love him so much and will never ever leave him."

Also, this: You can only make promises and assurances about your own intentions. Don't be making promises to your children about their mother's intentions.


Posts: 35 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Oregon
ExposedNiblet
Member
Member # 30803
Default  Posted: 10:05 AM, May 29th (Wednesday)

There is so much wisdom to be had from the last few posts, I can't think of anything further to add.

I just wanted to tell you that you are doing great and I, for one, am very happy with how far you've come just within these past few weeks.

Keep up the great work, Abbondad. There is a light at the end of the tunnel, even though you can't see it just yet.


...Nibs


Divorced
Me ($39.95 plus S & H)
DS1(17), DS2(15)

Enjoying this chapter in my life.
Learning that being alone does not mean being lonely.
Discovering that where I've been is not as important as where I'm going.


Posts: 355 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Right Here, Canada
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 2:37 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)

Hi,

Just exchanged the kids and she saw me crying. (Couldn't avoid physical encounter in this situation.) Shit. How many steps back did I just take?


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 2:47 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)

Just exchanged the kids and she saw me crying. (Couldn't avoid physical encounter in this situation.) Shit. How many steps back did I just take?

ZERO steps taken backwards. You are fine. So she saw you crying, no big deal. Remember what she says, does, eats, thinks, hears, smells, farts, craps, pees, no longer matters. The only thing that matters is YOU and your KIDS. If you didn't talk to her or interact with her any longer than absolutely necessary to do the kid transfer then you have kept the 180 going and did fine. Even if you didn't it's okay as well. You just start right back at it again.

The tears stop eventually as well. Just keep up the 180 and no contact and stay busy doing positive fun things each day as best you can. keep digging in counseling and working on you.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1910 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 7:02 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)

Hi,

Just got back from a separation/divorce support group in my town. I had been going regularly until a few months ago, when my sons baseball practice prevented me from continuing.

Everyone was anxious to hear of my update and commented on how assured I am now; I was a wreck of hope and delusion when last they saw me. I am angry, but not the utter mess I had been. So I guess that is a good sign.

A lot of pain in that room--many poor people whose pain trumps mine: lots of women in physically abusive relationships STILL trying to find the strength to divorce. It helped alleviate my self-pity. Always someone worse off than I....

I retold my story in the group--some of whom I'd not met--and their collective reaction was the same: shock that I would be treated this way for so long but understanding how difficult it has been to finally find the strength to,divorce.

And to a person, they all said the same: once the divorce concludes, painful though it is, there is a great sense of release and relief.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 7:17 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)

I just did some calculations. My wife's infidelity has this far cost us around 40000.00

Separation apartment
Most of my accumulated sick leave intended for retirement.
Therapy for us and kids.
Medication.
Hospitalization for me
Assorted infidelity-related expenses

And the divorce hasn't even begun. I feel like showing this to her, but it would only be met with anger and blame shifting.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
LoveRising
New Member
Member # 38688
Default  Posted: 7:42 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)

Dad since I am not a parent, I may be totally out of line with this question but what is the arrangement as far as your sharing of the parental duties? It seems like they are going back and forth a lot. My ex had children and I know that everytime they shifted from dad to mom's or mom's back to dad's, there was all kinds of emotional upheaval and need to reacclimate. So I'm wondering if this is good? It seems like they are spending time with both of you every day. This seems chaotic.

Glad you went to the support group. Sorry that you felt vulnerable that she saw you cry, but let it go. You are doing great. But I hope I might have given some food for thought with my observation about the shared parenting. I could be way off base.


Posts: 35 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Oregon
crazynot
Member
Member # 24572
Default  Posted: 1:29 AM, May 30th (Thursday)

I'll second that. I know it may seem more normal to do a daily swap, but actually it's probably better for everyone to cut down on this - maybe swapping over midweek, or having them on alternate weeks, something like that? One of the reasons that I recovered after WH moved out was that, with my much older kids refusing to see him, I hardly had to see him at all. Just a note on your IC visit. I identify so much with what you felt, and with your abandonment/insecurity issues from childhood etc. It was exploring something very similar with my IC that allowed me to transform my life after the separation, and really start to live again.


Me - 50
Him - 51
DDay 21 March 2009
Divorcing and delighted!

Do you want me to tell you something really subversive? Love is everything it's cracked up to be. That's why people are so cynical about it.


Posts: 873 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: UK
velveteer
Member
Member # 30997
Default  Posted: 3:43 AM, May 30th (Thursday)

AD - just chiming in to say this is great - I'm very pleased to see such strong progress from you now. We all have to reach these points on our own timelines, but reach them we must - and you have. Well done.

I totally relate to your post about the costs ($) of infidelity - don't get me started. But - what price freedom from the toxic?

Anyways - keep it up.
V


Divorced

Posts: 877 | Registered: Jan 2011
million pieces
Member
Member # 27539
Default  Posted: 5:45 AM, May 30th (Thursday)

Check out a few books on parenting through divorce. I particularly loved "Helping Your Kids Cope with Divorce the Sandcastles Way". Also for your kids, "Dinosaurs Divorce". I read many books, but I thought those were the best. Both were rec'd by my ds's therapist.


Me - 42
2 kids, 9 and 11
D-Day 2/5/10, separated 3 wks later
Divorced 11/15/11!!!!

Posts: 1264 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: MD
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:01 AM, May 30th (Thursday)

Going through some bad moments. Fighting off an overwhelming urge to call my wife and tell her to stop this madness, come back to our family, and live the rest of our lives.

Don't worry--I won't give in to the urge. It's normal. It will pass. But it is so strong.

What's so horrible is that a person can be both your tormenter and your source of comfort. I guess it's the class abusive relationship, huh? He hits her and comforts her, telling her he loves her. And she stays.

Just need a few words of understanding and encouragement.

Thanks...

[This message edited by Abbondad at 8:09 AM, May 30th (Thursday)]


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:09 AM, May 30th (Thursday)

I may be totally out of line with this question but what is the arrangement as far as your sharing of the parental duties? It seems like they are going back and forth a lot. My ex had children and I know that everytime they shifted from dad to mom's or mom's back to dad's, there was all kinds of emotional upheaval

We are supposed to have a strict schedule--or so I thought--but my wife's job entails a lot of travel, and often it is not predictable. They tell her just a few days before.

But you're right. This needs to end. The kids should not be wondering where they are going to be. This far we have shifted the schedule only a day before or after what was previously agreed upon, but even that is too much.

When coparenting matters are finalized during divorce, are these binding? Must the parents adhere to the schedule?


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
Chrysalis123
Member
Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 8:13 AM, May 30th (Thursday)

First, feelings are not facts. I know your feelings are painful, but they have led you in the wrong direction in the past, and have prolonged everyone's suffering....right??

Yes, the divorce decree is a binding contract. You have legal recourse if it is violated. Reality is that it needs to be violated repeatedly, and that is why the advice on SI is to document everything to establish a pattern of contemptuous behavior.

Speaking of that, have you thought of the precedents that are being set right now, that may be used against you? Please speak with your lawyer about this.

(((Dad))) NC NC NC


Don’t get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well. 

Posts: 2706 | Registered: Jan 2010
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 8:41 AM, May 30th (Thursday)

What's so horrible is that a person can be both your tormenter and your source of comfort.
This one specifically the source of comfort part was hard for me to get. Yep the person you confided in and went to when you needed to talk or felt down is no longer an asset or coping mechanism you can use. The "missing her part" will go away eventually but the fact that your Spouse was a tool in your toolbox of coping mechanisms still needs to be dealt with. This is especially important if like me your WS was just about the only tool in your coping toolbox.

If you have a bad day at work or something happens you used to be able to come home or call and vent or talk it out with your WS. That is no longer an option so you need to develop new coping skills and mechanisms. For me working out was big but I also learned to write things out, sit back feel whatever I am feeling and let it pass, or actually pick up the phone and call a friend or family member to discuss it with.

After awhile I realized most if not all of the things that used to stress me I could handle by myself. I was just going to my WW at the time because she was there. Not that it's a bad thing in a committed relationship between 2 people but it's not a good thing when there is no relationship and if there is codependant behavior involved.

Hell, some stuff I even let blow up now because, well, I now know I can't control it anyway so no need to stress over it. That one was hard for me to get but again I can only control my own actions and if the tools I have at my disposal for the particular issue don't work then I let it go.

That was probably more than you asked for but I remember being in the wanting to call my STBX phase and in reality it was more than that for me. That was just the tip of the iceberg since she WAS my coping mechanism. Now I have plenty of different outlets and you need to develop those for yrouself as well.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 8:43 AM, May 30th (Thursday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1910 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 8:48 AM, May 30th (Thursday)

What's so horrible is that a person can be both your tormenter and your source of comfort

I am waiting to see if FWW will ever again become a source of comfort or support for me. After the betrayal, so many lies, so much saying what she thought that I wanted to hear....

I am a much more independant person than I was during the M. More like before the M.


FBS 54
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4133 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
WorldTraveler23
New Member
Member # 36528
Default  Posted: 8:51 AM, May 30th (Thursday)

Abbondad, I rarely post here but have been following your threads. Having trouble quoting you, but I want to reassure you that every single time you resist calling your wife, that urge will get more and more manageable. And conversely, each time you GIVE IN and call her, that urge will get stronger. So remember that every time you resist, you're strengthening that "muscle" that helps you resist. You are literally making yourself stronger. Good job, Dad.

Posts: 15 | Registered: Aug 2012
ButterflyGirl
Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 8:51 AM, May 30th (Thursday)

We have a weekly 4/3 schedule, 4 overnights for me, 3 overnights for him. I would HATE to go a whole week without seeing them, and I didn't want too much shuffling, so this works for us. It's good for the kids too to know what days they are supposed to be where..

Of course, his work schedule has him working 4 to 9 a.m. Monday through Friday, so with my new shark lawyer, I'm hoping to get the standard every other weekend schedule at the next mediation in a couple of weeks.. If it can be one of us watching the kids rather than mom, dad, brother, daycare, etc., (in his case MOW), it really should be one of the parents watching the children if they can.. And I work from home, so I'm always available to watch them.. Suck on that buddy..

I'm no lawyer, but I think what you guys officially set out now will start setting a precedence, but things change, schedules change, things happen, so I think extenuating circumstances could warrant a revisit to the schedule.. But everyone is correct:

NO CONTACT and DOCUMENT!!!!!

Big hugs to you. Keep fighting that urge to contact her. That will NEVER lead to what you want. If this is ever going to get to a healthy relationship, it's going to start with her contacting you saying all those things you mentioned wanting to say to her.. And then her actions would have to back up her words.. You are a LONG WAY OFF from that..

BIG HUGS!!


xBW~ 35
Two DS~ 7-Eleven
"I've wiped the shit off. It can be wiped off you know." ~ asurvivor

Posts: 2304 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 6:30 AM, May 31st (Friday)

Hi Everyone,

Just an update. Yesterday was rocky, but I think a success overall.

No contact except for one brief kid-related text!

But many urges to communicate over the course of the day, as well as agonizing over her not contacting me. But I got through them and congratulated myself.

Crying jags here and there.

Therapy is going really well. Delving into serious personal issues that helped contribute to the situation leading UP to the infidelity. Issues that I now understand and am determined to resolve so I can move into my future relationship emotionally healthy.

Oh, and for around one minute the clouds lifted and I had a moment of clarity: the emotional abuse, the million lies, the shocking depth of the deceit, just the abominable way I have been treated overall. And I felt disgusted with myself, but also more sure of my decision.

I hope these moments return more often and ultimately will be sustained. The anger helps.

This morning I burst into tears waiting for the kids at the bus stop, which was not good. My six year old had to comfort me. "Do you miss Mommy?" she asked. I felt terrible that she witnessed this and had to assume the role of comforter, but these bouts of emotion come suddenly, with no warning, no discernible trigger. Otherwise I would have hidden this from her.

Now I am angry again...


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 6:53 AM, May 31st (Friday)

I don't think that's such a bad thing,AD. Not that you want to burst into tears all the time around the kids,but it's ok to show them that you are sad. It is normal to be sad when a marriage ends. It also shows them that it's ok for a man to cry. And,the fact the she comforted you shows you that despite all the trauma of the last year,you're kids are ok..better than ok..they are compassionate and loving and kind. So,maybe what happened this morning was a good thing..but I don't think you should do it all the time..you don't want to place that burden at their feet. But it is ok to show them that you're sad.


NC today! Stay strong!!


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling?

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7678 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
velveteer
Member
Member # 30997
Default  Posted: 6:56 AM, May 31st (Friday)

Hey AD - you're doing good mate. Keep it up.

I think its OK to be emotional in front of the kids, but maybe not too often and don;t put them in the role of supporter - it sounds like you are very aware of that and are not doing this so again good job.

As for arrangements with the kids, so much depends on your circumstances and what will work for the kids. My arrangements are not 'standard' but they ARE consistent. I have the kids two night during the week and every second weekend - its 6-7 nights per fortnight for me depending on what happens on Sundays.

We have stuck more or less to this schedule now for two years. Many will say that its too much to and fro and it should be week about or even 4/3, but those simply did not work for us. The kids know where they are going to be and have settled into it well. Find something that works for you and the kids.

I know nothing about the legal system in the US but I am sure that what you do now will set some kind of precedent. Here in the UK when it comes to D the courts will only really order changes in the parenting arrangements if they think that the status quo is detrimental to the kids. Parental appeals don't cut it - it only about the kids.

At the outset by WW wanted more time with the kids but I dug my heels in and fought for the contact that I have - she now agrees that this was best for them (although that took her a long time). I did that because I knew it was in their interests and also I knew that I was setting a precedent - establishing a status quo that the courts would need to see a reason to change. I don't see a reason now - its working for us, and everyone has settled into it.

So - think about this. Your challenge is that you are dealing with a very flaky WW - we all did to greater or lesser extents, but yours maybe more difficult than many. At least I was able to negotiate direct rather than through lawyers.

You will know what's best for your situation, but consider the longer term here too.

Good luck and keep up the good work.

V



Divorced

Posts: 877 | Registered: Jan 2011
ninebark
Member
Member # 24534
Default  Posted: 7:21 AM, May 31st (Friday)

It is hard to get the parenting schedules down. My ex works three weeks out of the month out of province, and is home a week.

Our origional agreement of every other weekend, and visits during the week didn't cut it.
Luckly we are at a point that we are working together as parents. When he comes into town he can see his son whenever he wants to (unless there is some event that was previously scheduled). I do my best to ensure he has a relationship with his dad, and his dad has all the access he wants. The ball is in his court.

Kids do adapt. Mine is 12 so he understands a lot better than younger kids, but they will adjust to the schedule changes.

HOpefully you can get something a little more reliable worked out yourself.

[This message edited by ninebark at 7:21 AM, May 31st (Friday)]


BS (me) 40
WH - 48
Married 12 years
DS - 12
D-day 06/21/09
Separated....hopefully divorcing soon.

Posts: 630 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Canada
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 10:06 AM, May 31st (Friday)

Hi everyone,

N/C today, but going through intense withdrawal and anxiety. Hanging out with my bro, which is better than being alone, but it is not abating.

Please help "talk" me through it. Fear not, I won't contact her, but I am not doing well...

This feels like it won't get better...

I miss the "good her" so intensely.

Thank you!


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
roughroadahead
Member
Member # 36060
Default  Posted: 10:27 AM, May 31st (Friday)

Have you read "getting past your break up"? The title sounds like it could be about high school, but it truly isn't. There is an entire chapter about maintaining NC, and some tips on managing the urges. Also "from abandonment to healing".

As far as parenting schedules, you don't have to stick to whatever is in the decree as long as both parents agree. These things come before the courts only when there is a disagreement. It is definitely better for the kids to have a consistent a schedule as possible, given the work limitations. Is it possible to set out a schedule at least a week or two in advance?

Also any changes to the official schedule, be sure to get your stbx's agreement in writing (plan changes via email, doesn't have to be formally written and notarized or anything) so that you have evidence of her agreement should she come back later and say you're keeping the kids during her time.


BS-Me 30s
WS-Him 30s
D-Day 4/2012 (Insisted EA only)
D-Day 5/2012 (Did I say EA? Ummm..)
Numerous other TT/broken NC d-days until S 1/2013. D settled 11/2013
MOW-coworker, 40s.
2 DS and DD all w/autism

Posts: 739 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: USA
Mikey56
Member
Member # 38063
Default  Posted: 11:11 AM, May 31st (Friday)

AD,

Sending STRENGTH Brother.

You can do this. Man up.

When life knocks you down...Calmly get back up, smile, and very politely say, 'You hit like a bitch

Peace...

[This message edited by Mikey56 at 11:11 AM, May 31st (Friday)]


Posts: 115 | Registered: Jan 2013
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 11:24 AM, May 31st (Friday)

You have to distract yourself. It is like a drug, thinking about her is the "fix". You spend so much time getting your "fix" that you can't heal.

I distracted myself the first few months with books. Nothing serious or heavy, just fun reads...and music...and exercise.

Also, if you feel the urge to contact her, write everything in a word document. At least you "got it out".

Stay busy.

Yes, it is OK to be sad around your kids, but you don't want to emotionally burden them either. They are not your emotional support...you are theirs. Nothing wrong with them knowing occasionally you are hurt too, but follow it up with "This is a part of life, things change, and I am going to move forward and be happy. You don't have to worry about me. I love you."

Also, therapy is emotionally hard. I still feel wiped out after some sessions. I usually rebound in a day or two...but I expect it now.


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4182 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: South
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 11:37 AM, May 31st (Friday)

Thanks, everyone. The worst has passed. I guess "it" just needs to come out a few times a day.

I am reading The Journey from Abandonment to Healing. Very good, very relevant to what I am experiencing. I also ordered Getting Past Your Breakup.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 12:22 PM, May 31st (Friday)

AD - You have been doing great. The one thing that you can do when you feel that overwhelming urge to call/talk/see her is to first ask yourself what is so important to tell her. If it seems significant, write it down, get it out. Walk away from it if you come back several hours later and it still seems important, ask if it's about kids or finances. If it is, then email it. If not then get rid of it, in a cathartic way, burn it, rip it to a bazillion pieces. The anxiety is just another way for your mind to grieve.
The other thing to do when the urge hits you is to do something physical and productive. Clean, Mop, go for a walk, a run, a swim. Exerting yourself releases endorphins which counteract the cortisol that your producing from the anxiety. (there is legit science behind it).

((((Stay Strong Friend))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8698 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
JamieMc
Member
Member # 37776
Default  Posted: 2:27 PM, May 31st (Friday)

Hey Dad, I think you are making amazing strides, keep up the good work! I lost a friend due to cancer that I can't speak to anymore because she is gone from this world:( I often "write" to her knowing full well I can't send the message to where she rests now but I have things I want to share with her, she was my BFF of 30+ years. On some level, even though sadly, I can't talk to her, I do feel better once I write my thoughts down. I know your WW is still available for you to talk with but just something that has helped me to let go of a confidante, maybe writing your feelings but not sending them... Just an idea from a S.I. friend:) All the best Jamie


BS early 50's Wh also early 50's. I am Jamie, Mom to 3 great teens/young adults. My WH and I have been together more than half of our lives and married 25+. We are in MC & going to give R our best shot, hoping and praying for a better 2013!

Posts: 112 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: USA
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 2:38 PM, May 31st (Friday)

Thanks, Jaime. I actually have done that, but not for awhile. I found it very upsetting, but I guess that means it was cathartic.

One thing I did do today while reading The Journey from Abandonment to Healing is start an exercise designed to help one through the withdrawal stage of abandonment. It is a bit embarassing, but I am willing to try anything; plus it claims great success.

You essentially divide oneself into two parts--the Little "you" and the Big "you." And then you write a dialogue between the two, giving voice to the child within and the adult self.

The premise is valid at least in my case: my anxiety, fears, and dread arise from the deprivation of a child's needs--comfort, security, predictability, consistency, maternal love, etc. Nothing so original--we all still have that child within and a strong bond with another that breaks results in terrible deep trauma, even if the child, like me, never really was abandoned as a child. The reaction is still deeply rooted in the brain.

In any case, it was an interesting exercise and indeed was a bit helpful. Its ultimate objective is to enable one to bring the two together--the child and the adult--to form a more complete person, one who is capable of self-soothing and is comfortable with being alone, since the adult self is assuring the child self that he will not leave him. (The adult will never leave the child.) "We" are OK by ourselves.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
LonelyHusband
Member
Member # 34145
Default  Posted: 3:16 PM, May 31st (Friday)

It is a bit embarassing, but I am willing to try anything; plus it claims great success.

I don't think it's embarrassing buddy. I read that book and did that excercise. Didn't help me a bit the first time tbh, but I wasn't really doing it, I was doing it with an end in mind, and then got to the end and thought "well that didn't help".

give it a little time and do the excercise again, but throw your heart and soul into it. you'll find it helps more once you can really throw the truth into it.


BS ( me) 41
fWS (OktoberMest) 35
D day #1 29/10/2011, D day #2 15/112011, D day #3 15/03/2012
Reconciling.
“It’s better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all”, is inadequate consolation when you vacuum up a child's hamster'

Posts: 1290 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: UK
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 6:31 PM, May 31st (Friday)

And so a good end to a difficult day of withdrawal.

My wife called while I was playing drums and actually enjoying it; it's been awhile. I let it go to voicemail and made myself keep playing well beyond her message.

She wanted to say goodnight to the kids. She has texted me in the past few days as she is furious I told her I want a divorce. Her voice was soft and conciliatory. (Don't worry, I'm not falling for the possible Hoovering.)

She called my sons phone and he cut her short, as he was playing with his friends.

I am not taking pleasure in this. I am proud of struggling through my 180. But it did make me sad: she is calling her home, which is filled with kids and joy. She rejected this world of family. Depressing. Such self sabotage....


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 7:50 PM, May 31st (Friday)

OK, final post of the day--cuz it's a good one. WW insisted on talking on the phone, as we really did need go over quite a few things regarding the kids: music lessons, summer camps, doctors' appointments, etc.

So I steeled myself by reading a few columns by Chumplady for inspiration.

And I was quite detached! She was in her all-business cold persona. I remained distant and polite.

Of course now that she returned from her business trip, she "needed to decompress so she can be where she neds to be with them."

Translation: I can't handle them.

Once again, she has messed with the schedule. I have had them way more than I was supposed to, in spite of her declaring that the schedule must be adhered to--and god forbid if I rearrange it.

I know, I know, put my foot down. But the kids are always better with me, and I like being with them. They keep me calm and busy. So I will do it for the kids.

She was peeved that my son was curt with her on the phone, and that my daughter expressed no interest in saying goodnight to her last night.

"She didn't ask about me?"

"Nope."

"They are doing OK?"

"Yup, fine."

Silence.

"Well, I think Son needs to go on more anti-anxiety meds."

"He is fine. When he gets anxious, I calm him down and he's fine."

"OK, I'll talk to you later."

Click.

No, they aren't pining for her. They are doing well in our home, the world they love. You left it.

I know, I shouldn't be caring about what she is thinking, acting, etc. But I do. And I am not using the kids against them. I only speak well of her to them, always reminding them that Mommy loves them.

Again, the situation of her making is just tragic. A dismantled family for what? For what?

I think I did well on the phone in any case. I am not shattered, I am not obsessing, I am not emotional. That cold tone reminded me just why I am done.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
standingonmarble
Member
Member # 31217
Default  Posted: 8:42 PM, May 31st (Friday)

This is good for your case. Document all the time spent with you and WHAT you do for them. The judge will look at that and realize that you provide the stability and parenting on a consistent basis. Get a journal if you haven't already and just make short notes everyday. Judges like this stuff. If you want to be the custodial parent in the long run, be the one who does the majority of it.

You have come so far.


At one time he was a man standing on marbles. Now I am a woman standing on marble.....

We are done fighting with each other and decide to fight FOR each other.


Posts: 738 | Registered: Feb 2011
FaithFool
Member
Member # 20150
Default  Posted: 8:56 PM, May 31st (Friday)

You handled that really well.


DDay: June 15, 2008
Mistakenly married Mr. Superfreak
20 years of OWs, WTF?
Divorced Dec 26, 2011
"Life is a shipwreck, but we must not forget
to sing in the lifeboats". -- Voltaire

Posts: 17488 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: Canada
alphakitte
Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 8:56 PM, May 31st (Friday)

A dismantled family for what, you ask.

For lust.


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 350 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 9:33 PM, May 31st (Friday)

Once again, she has messed with the schedule. I have had them way more than I was supposed to

As unseemly as it sounds....document this for CS purposes.

CS is typically calculated on the amount of overnights. Do NOT allow a *fictitous* amount of overnights to be awarded to your wife.

During mediation, while Sultan was insisting on more overnights than my own L was comfortable with....I told him flat-out not to take on more than he can handle. I was completely fine with whatever custody arrangement that he wanted (except I reserved Sunday night for me)...but he needed to be SURE that it *worked* for him. I made it clear that I was no longer *available* to pick up his slack.

You have to think a bit strategically here, AD. And I don't mean that in a bad way...but you you have to be realistic. If your WW insists that she wants the kids for 70 or 80 or 90% of the time...will she realistically, over time, adhere to that?

The two of you are no longer *partners*. Remember that.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8075 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
JamieMc
Member
Member # 37776
Default  Posted: 11:20 PM, May 31st (Friday)

Hey Dad, glad to hear you are fighting for your kiddos! My WH has a history of self sabotage, some of it probably rooted in FOO issues, adopted etc... He has found the writing exercises difficult but also cathartic. One book we have really found helpful is "Taming your outer child", has been VERY helpful for him. We are trying to R but whether we succeed in staying married or not, WH has to get himself on track b/c we will always share kids and God willing, one day, Grandkids:) I think you are getting stronger everyday, feel free to PM if you need a friend. All the best Jamie


BS early 50's Wh also early 50's. I am Jamie, Mom to 3 great teens/young adults. My WH and I have been together more than half of our lives and married 25+. We are in MC & going to give R our best shot, hoping and praying for a better 2013!

Posts: 112 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: USA
LonelyHusband
Member
Member # 34145
Default  Posted: 1:16 AM, June 1st (Saturday)

nicely done.

Now document it as everyone says - you want to judge to see you as the stable, reliable parent, and her as the unstable one, because otherwise it will be her word against yours.


BS ( me) 41
fWS (OktoberMest) 35
D day #1 29/10/2011, D day #2 15/112011, D day #3 15/03/2012
Reconciling.
“It’s better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all”, is inadequate consolation when you vacuum up a child's hamster'

Posts: 1290 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: UK
DeadMumWalking
Member
Member # 25341
Default  Posted: 1:32 AM, June 1st (Saturday)

((((Abbondad))))

Not to be a broken record, but jumping in here again because it's so important:

Once again, she has messed with the schedule. I have had them way more than I was supposed to

DOCUMENT this. Please. Document all of your time with them, all of the arrangements, all of the times she changed the arrangements at the last second, all of the times she BLEW THEM OFF. You can do this with a journal or calendar. Because she is going to want to collect CS from you, and she is prepared to LIE to get it. And as gonnabe alluded to: do NOT keep them all day and then have them sleep over at mommy's.

She is NOT. YOUR. FRIEND. You CANNOT trust her to do what is right - not what is right by her own children, and most certainly not what is right by you.

Try to avoid picking up the phone when it's her. I'm not sure why you can't agree on the arrangements by email. It will help YOU more to have the smallest amount of direct contact with her that is possible.

Have you gotten a lawyer yet? Please do get one - the sharkiest one you can afford - and take their advice. Follow their instructions to the letter.

Hang in there, you are doing great.

((((Abbondad))))


Me (BS), Him (WH): early 50's
3 DS: teens!!! :)
M: 25 (19 1/2 at Dday), Together 30
Dday: Dec 2008
Limbo-ish, again (after multiple S) -- weighing my options

Posts: 2606 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: EU
crazynot
Member
Member # 24572
Default  Posted: 6:09 AM, June 1st (Saturday)

Yes, this is all fantastic stuff, Abbondad. Echoing what others have said, get a fantastic lawyer. I found it so empowering and although our D isn't yet final, I count my amazing solicitor as a friend.


Me - 50
Him - 51
DDay 21 March 2009
Divorcing and delighted!

Do you want me to tell you something really subversive? Love is everything it's cracked up to be. That's why people are so cynical about it.


Posts: 873 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: UK
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 7:09 AM, June 1st (Saturday)

Good Morning Everyone,

I am up on an early Saturday since my six year old violently shoved me awake. I felt good--no obsessing over WW (what is she doing, what is she thinking, etc.)

And then my son asked me excitedly when his mom was coming for him. (He hadn't seen her in four days and barely spoke to him, as she only calls to say goodnight.). I told him that contrary to what she'd promised him, she was not coming today.

The look on his face cut my heart out. "What??"

I assured him that we'd have fun, I would take him to his music lesson (something which she'd insisted on signing him up for and declaring that she would take him) and she would come tomorrow.

Forget the schedule stuff for a moment. I am just so angry. What does love mean to these people? Is it a transient feeling? Does it not define itself through action?

Or is it not for us to understand....


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
Neithan
Member
Member # 35924
Default  Posted: 7:35 AM, June 1st (Saturday)

I assured him that... she would come tomorrow.

You're doing a good job, but don't assure him of things you can't deliver on. Especially things that depend on his mom's behavior. Tell him that mom said she'd come tomorrow, and do so in a way that doesn't imply doubt on your part.

My two cents, anyway.

Enjoy your kids, keep doing the next right thing, and continue healing.


Me: BH
Her: WW
D-Day: 2/19/2010
Married 1981
That which does not kill me makes me more irritable

Posts: 333 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Among the Gaurwaith
LoveRising
New Member
Member # 38688
Default  Posted: 9:52 AM, June 1st (Saturday)

You're doing a good job, but don't assure him of things you can't deliver on. Especially things that depend on his mom's behavior. Tell him that mom said she'd come tomorrow, and do so in a way that doesn't imply doubt on your part.

I agree with this 100%. As I mentioned earlier, do not make any promises or even statements about her intentions. Kids take everything literally. This is huge damage developing here. If she wants to break her promises, that is her poor decision-making. Don't be complicit by promising him things that you have NO control over!! Even "how much she loves him". You can only speak to your own feelings and behaviors. She's too unpredictable and, I have to say it, ill.


Posts: 35 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Oregon
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 3:58 PM, June 1st (Saturday)

Hi,

The Daily Report. It was Ok until driving back from music lessons with the kids. Then I burst into wracking sobs. (This was after WW texted me about summer camp for the kids.)

They got into a fight over who was going to comfort Daddy. Tragic but funny, I guess. (I love my kids!).

Daughter said, "Don't worry, Daddy, Mommy is coming tomorrow."

God, do I want this to end....


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 4:19 PM, June 1st (Saturday)

Daughter said, "Don't worry, Daddy, Mommy is coming tomorrow."

God, do I want this to end....

Time for a talk with the children brother. Sounds like they aren't processing what is really going on. Don't continue to give them false hope.

The first step to ending this is filing.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2979 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
solus sto
Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 4:38 PM, June 1st (Saturday)

Texts are for things like, "I'm in the driveway" on pick-up day.

I would establish a firm boundary about communication with your stbx.

Breaking into wracking sobs over a text about camp---while your KIDS are present---is to be avoided.

Certainly,it's okay for children to see parents express emotion.

But over a text about camp? That is the kind of stuff that should be put into an email for you to read at your leisure. When the kids aren't present.

Because no, it's not even a little funny that the kids fight over who will comfort you.

Again, there is NOTHING wrong with kids seeing emotion.

But you're in a bad place, emotionally, and they should be protected from some of the rawness. Email unless it's emergency or a simple, "In the car, ready for kids" or "I'll be about 10 minutes late."

Regarding the rest: document everything, and STOP reassuring your kids about their mother. You cannot be sure she will do what she says; don't become a participant in her letting the kids down. (It's also not your job to tell them that she loves them. Focus on yourself.)


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 53, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8837 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 4:46 PM, June 1st (Saturday)

Thank you. I meant to comminicate that after the fact it was tragically funny--kids doing what they usually do (fighting in the car). I saw nothing funny about it in any true sense. It's just a surreal situation.

I did not respond to the text. Just the fact that it came over so matter-of-factly reminded me that we really have no family anymore.

My WW had told my son she is coming tomorrow and he told his sister. I will no longer assure them of anything having to do with her.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 12:10 PM, June 2nd (Sunday)

Hi, Everyone,

The WW just left with the kids for a few nights and as usual I am a wreck seeing her drive off with them.

And of course I broke down as soon as I saw her and could not stop sobbing. I simply can't help it, unlike her, who wears a poker face. Sayeth the WW generously, "I am only calm and collected like this because you are like that. I fall apart too on my own..."

And yet again, she said for the thousandth time mournfully, "We BOTH hurt each OTHER." I used to respond to this and it would escalate into a pointless fight. I did not respond. Yay me.

Her still towing that bizarre framing of events actually gives me a jolt of resolve, as it reminds me just how delusional and beyond hope she is.

I told her I want a collaborative divorce. She still wants a mediated divorce. The fact that we can't even agree on what KIND of divorce is proof that a mediated divorce would not work!

(We are NOT going to litigate, as I explain in a recent post. It's the only thing we can agree on.)

Anyway, I just want to get the damn process started. Right now I am still in that awful spin cycle of emotions, and filled with anticipatory anxiety about the divorce proceedings. I want to move on this, get on a linear path of pain en route to the other side, and eventual healing.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
cjonesjag
Member
Member # 10617
Default  Posted: 2:01 PM, June 2nd (Sunday)

Abbondad ~

First, keep up the good work...you've come a long way since I first started following your saga!

Second... What advantages to you see to Collaborative divorce?

From what I've read/seen/heard, they are more expensive than mediated divorces. It also requires the agreement of ALL parties (which your WW would NOT agree to at this point) to participate in a "what's good for the whole family/children" frame of mind.

I just don't see that happening with your WW, and frankly, I would be tempted (in your situation) to get something filed, especially with regard to custody/visitation.

State laws usually govern most of the divorce proceedings anyway. Unless your situation is especially complicated, there's not a lot to discuss.

Although most people don't think this is true, I'm a firm believer in being the one that initiates proceedings. Its MUCH easier to be in the drivers' seat than to be taken for the ride. YOU can initiate proceedings, specify financial/asset division, custody/visition and CS details. She can either agree (and sign on the dotted line) or not.

If the two of you have already discussed a lot of the financials/Custody/CS stuff, then you already know where she stands and I would strike while the iron is hot. There are GOBS of people who either trusted or believed their WS wouldn't screw them in the end....and of course, they did!

There are TONS Of posts here on SI regarding detailing custody, visitation and CS arrangements. Because I don't know your financial situation, I cannot speak to how complicated that may be.

I was a do-it-myself divorcer. I filed the papers, did all the serving/required junk and made it happen. He didn't even have to respond at all ~ even though he agreed with it, it was filed as a default judgement.

Get your assets and salary/incomes listed, get your debts identified. Gather all your propety and tax information. Round up any pension/401(k)/investment account statements.

Continue to document all 'parenting time' arrangements to date (you've been doing this, right?). I'm thinking you've got a visitation/custody plan sorta, kinda worked out? Put it in writing! There are GOBS of details here about custody arrangements and child support issues that may arise in the future. Write it all out...and be SPECIFIC.

If your situation was *simple*, I would say to fill out the paperwork yourself and have your WW review it. See if she's REALLY going to be cooperative (or not).

But I don't give a flying fuck about your WW, and more importantly, I don't trust her.

I would take my info to the nearest SHARK attorney and file for divorce. You can mediate when/if she doesn't agree with the terms, but you CANNOT have a collaborative divorce with someone who doesn't WANT to, and moreover, REALLY doesn't have the 'best interest of the family' in mind.

I'd really like to see you in the driver's seat, Abbondad....instead of watching your WW take you for a ride. She is obviously interested in the best outcome for HERSELF alone.


Me (BS):50
Him(WTFH):51 Married: 05/26/2002
DD#1: 09/2005 (EA) DD#2: 09/2006
Mini-DDays: Many. Mostly online
DIVORCED 10/20/10
It's not what you've got, it's what you give.
It ain't the life you choose, it's the life you live

Posts: 6400 | Registered: May 2006 | From: Michigan
ButterflyGirl
Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 2:23 PM, June 2nd (Sunday)

If I'm honest, I won't be too surprised if I see you post here soon that SHE filed for divorce.

You are detaching rather well, so she may be waking up that this is a reality and start thinking to protect herself.

Maybe not, but I agree with cjonesjag that it's much better to be in the driver's seat..


xBW~ 35
Two DS~ 7-Eleven
"I've wiped the shit off. It can be wiped off you know." ~ asurvivor

Posts: 2304 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 4:38 PM, June 2nd (Sunday)

Butterfly girl,

I thought I was detaching until this morning. Now I feel like I did six months ago. Just wracking sobs all day. I guess it's normal to cycle like this? I haven't broken 180; it's just a bad trigger even hearing her drive away with our children. (I had closed myself off in another part of the house so I at least would not see it.)

I can't imagine that I will ever get used to that sound...


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
JamieMc
Member
Member # 37776
Default  Posted: 5:06 PM, June 2nd (Sunday)

Dad, I could be dead wrong, and correct me if I am, but I feel like you can't sever the connection between you & WW because you still have hope that she will come home to you & your kiddos & live happily ever after?? Not to say it couldn't happen, but strict NC with OM would need to be step #1 and I haven't seen that be an option for your family.
I wish you strength Dad! All the best Jamie

[This message edited by JamieMc at 9:55 AM, June 3rd (Monday)]


BS early 50's Wh also early 50's. I am Jamie, Mom to 3 great teens/young adults. My WH and I have been together more than half of our lives and married 25+. We are in MC & going to give R our best shot, hoping and praying for a better 2013!

Posts: 112 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: USA
ButterflyGirl
Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 7:01 PM, June 2nd (Sunday)

Hey Abbondad,

I understand you don't feel you are detaching that well. They don't call it a roller coaster for nothin.. Yes, the cycling is very normal.. Some days you will feel good, some days will feel like you're back to square one.. I PROMISE the highs and lows won't swing as fast or as often over time.. The sooner you institute strict NC, the sooner the ride will smoothen out. Honestly, it's the days I gets texts or emails or have to see his car at dropoffs that cause my dips, but it gets A LOT easier. I promise, promise, promise!!

And even though you didn't feel detached this morning, you said you stayed 180 and didn't see her. So SHE still thinks you are detaching, and you guys are having a lot of discussions about this divorce. I don't recommend trying to analyze her too much, but if I was her, I would be talking to attorneys already and figuring out my options.. Especially if I'm continuing the affair and my husband was talking divorce. I'd start protecting myself right away, which might be what she's thinking.. I'm not sure what she thinks her next best move is, but she's gonna do whatever is best FOR HER..

Perhaps you are seeing filing for divorce as some type of hurt you would cause her, like then you would be guilty of something. THAT'S NOT TRUE!! It does NOT hurt her to protect yourself.

There are so many horrible sneaky things she could do right now that you would have no control over. She could sell every last thing you guys own, she could leave the country with the kids, she could run up debt that you would owe half of, she could do a lot right now; but just by filing, the administrative orders will give you a lot of protection..

You can always unfile if things change, it can still be mediated, it can still be cheap, it can be all of that even if you file.. I really think it's your best move right now.. It's only a few hundred bucks to at least protect yourself, your kids, and your financial future..

Hugs..


xBW~ 35
Two DS~ 7-Eleven
"I've wiped the shit off. It can be wiped off you know." ~ asurvivor

Posts: 2304 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
ButterflyGirl
Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 7:15 PM, June 2nd (Sunday)

I just want to add, there's some things I wish I did before I filed, so I really recommend lawyering up and figuring out what you should maybe do before you file. "Get your ducks in a row" as they say.

We are both in Florida, so I'm gonna assume some of the same rules. After you file, you can't go changing accounts around, so if you have joint things like credit cards, cell phones, car insurance, etc., separate it all now. Definitely cancel all joint anything.. Anything that has her name on it regarding your house like the electric or whatever, get her off and get it all in your own name..

I know this is hard, and I can see you have a big heart, just like I think I do, but we have to let our heads do the thinking sometimes and worry about our hearts later.. A lawyer will help your head figure out more of what to do given your specific circumstances..

More hugs..


xBW~ 35
Two DS~ 7-Eleven
"I've wiped the shit off. It can be wiped off you know." ~ asurvivor

Posts: 2304 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
standingonmarble
Member
Member # 31217
Default  Posted: 9:22 PM, June 2nd (Sunday)

Legal advice is most always well spent money, sometimes cheaper in the long run.

I bet you broke down because the kids were gone and you had to freedom to let it all out. That's ok, a part of the process.


At one time he was a man standing on marbles. Now I am a woman standing on marble.....

We are done fighting with each other and decide to fight FOR each other.


Posts: 738 | Registered: Feb 2011
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 7:17 AM, June 3rd (Monday)

Dad, I could be dead wrong, and correct me if I am, but I feel like you can't sever the connection between you & WW because you still have hope that she will come home to you & your kiddos & live happily ever after?? Not to say it couldn't happen, but strict NC with OM would need to be step #1 and I haven't seen thatp be an option for your family.
I wish you strength Dad! All the best Jamie

Thank you, Jamie,

Of course that hope has never been completely extinguished. It may never, or if it does, I can easily see it dying completely only a long time from now.

She knows the deal. She knows what is required and has from the beginning. And I have seen her try at least three times. And fail, obviously. She is deep in her addiction, fog, true love, whatever.

I am done playing "Choose me." Did that for months. She is on her own.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 9:48 AM, June 3rd (Monday)

Hi,

Sometimes I feel like my daily primal weeping is abnormal. Almost out of proportion to the situation? I guess it's because I read so many people's posts that express primarily fury and disdain for their waywards' actions. I want to feel,this and I do, but only in brief spurts. Then it's back to the grief-wails.

I don't mean to imply they did not love their spouses as deeply as I did and do. But did you go through this phase and reaction? I guess I am looking for reassurances that I am just a normal sensitive human being reacting naturally.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
velveteer
Member
Member # 30997
Default  Posted: 10:14 AM, June 3rd (Monday)

AD - its normal. Give yourself a break. You are grieving the end of your marriage. Everyone responds in different ways. I too had tears, but I also had anger and lots of it. Anger's not necessarily easier or better - its just different.

Just keep moving forward - be proactive in your healing and it will start to get better. No-one stays like this for ever. Believe me.

However, I agree with Jamie that a part of you holds onto hope. This is also normal, but there will come a time when you need to let it go. That's easy to say and hard to do, I know, but that day will come. And you will know it.

Keep it up AD - you are doing great.
V


Divorced

Posts: 877 | Registered: Jan 2011
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 12:39 PM, June 3rd (Monday)

Hi,

So I just picked up my nine year old from the nurse's office at school. He had called me from the restroom crying. Said he was "scared about you-know-what."

Turns out a few of his classmates had been telling him about their parents' divorces--how their mom and dad hated each other, fought all the time, one or the other didn't see them much, etc.

He asked me why since I and his mom didn't fight, we are getting divorced. And it's true: we really never fought much--just lots of hushed silences and tears and palpable tension.

Anyway, I comforted and assured as best I could. But again I am so angry, so very angry at her. Especially for her coming home with promises for all that everything would be OK. Only to leave again when I blew up at her breaking NC.

I guess this is more of a vent than anything.... Thanks for understanding.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 2:03 PM, June 3rd (Monday)

Sometimes I feel like my daily primal weeping is abnormal. Almost out of proportion to the situation? I guess it's because I read so many people's posts that express primarily fury and disdain for their waywards' actions. I want to feel,this and I do, but only in brief spurts. Then it's back to the grief-wails.

This is normal as others have stated. It's the grieving over what used to be. Believe me the fury and anger comes eventually along with indifference. Do what you can when you can but for me, the sadness and pain went away much faster after I actually filed for D. I knew it was over and filing was scary but it pushed me towards acceptance that my M is over and greatly helped me when I was detaching.

Specifically I was anxious leading up to filing. As soon as the papers were signed I damn near dance out of the lawyers office because a weight lifted almost immediately. Then the last real bout of sadness hit as I actually "mourned the death" of my M because by filing I had pulled the plug. I made a consious decision to kill the "hope" so I could start moving on. I was sad for a bit but eventually that went away and I worked on completely detaching and moving forward. It's been all positive movement since then because I chose to actively better my situation.

IMO, at least for me much of this was willing myself to do the things I KNEW I needed to do to end the pain. You are doing great abbondad. Just keep moving forward. I still had hope when I filed but in my GUT I knew it was over so it was really just my heart taking a bit to catch up with my head. Again, do what you can when you can but just go ahead and "jedi-mind trick" yourself into going to see that L. Taking the steps your mind knows you need to take helps move the heart along so it catches up.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1910 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 2:04 PM, June 3rd (Monday)

AD,

Try reading this article, I think it may help you to understand that there is something chemical going on in your brain right now as well. This may help you not feel so helpless with all of the feelings you are experiencing.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/thriving101/201012/rejection-losers-guide


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5060 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
I think I can
Member
Member # 17756
Default  Posted: 2:35 PM, June 3rd (Monday)

I hear you about the wailing....

Not sure how you feel about antidepressants but they really helped me with this--I still had the grief but was able to get up off the floor.


I'm not the winner, I'm the prize.

Posts: 8826 | Registered: Jan 2008
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 3:30 PM, June 3rd (Monday)

Can you put him in therapy?

I know not everyone here agrees...but I told my kids the truth. Age appropriate, of course, but the truth.

My dd's IC told me that considering the situation, she is very well adjusted. We have open dialogue, she can ask whatever she wants and I will give her the kid version of the truth.

Details are not necessary, but *I* felt like it would help my dd understand (she is also 9) and it did and does. You know your kid best, you need to do what you feel like is in his best interest. I don't protect my EX. I don't trash him, we co-parent well, he is here for holiday and parties and such, but I don't protect him.

Kids want to know why. If you get along, they want to know why you won't get back together too. None of it is easy, but it does become easier.


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4182 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: South
Newlease
Member
Member # 7767
Default  Posted: 4:26 PM, June 3rd (Monday)

You have received a lot of good advice and have been doing a great job so far.

I had a happy marriage. We were married for 24 years. His A came completely out of left field. And he filed for D while I felt we could still work it out. It was gut-wrenching.

I cried ALL THE TIME. I even took a day off work here and there just to lie in bed and cry all day. I cried in the shower. I cried in the car. And I contemplated suicide every day for at least a month. I just wanted the pain to end. The thought of hurting my children kept me from following through.

The big difference is that my sons were grown (mostly) one was married and the other in college. So I tried to shield them from most of my pain, but they knew I was devastated.

What helped me when I was reaching around trying to figure out where my husband went and who was this "other" person who had taken his place was this - I pretended he died. There was this other person who looked like him, but it was not the man I loved and had shared a life with for 24 years.

You can mourn someone who is dead. You can't talk to them, or be comforted by them, so there is no use thinking like that. They are gone. This stranger you have to deal with is not your friend and certainly not the person you once loved. That person is GONE FOREVER.

When that sinks in, the pain will lessen, ever so slightly. You will cycle through the stages of grief, and circle back. But finally, after much time has passed, you will come to acceptance. And that is a great place to be.

BTW - so glad I didn't act on my impulses, because my life is so wonderful now 8 years later.

Sending strength and peace.

NL


Even if you can't control the world around you, you are still the master of your own soul.

Posts: 7739 | Registered: Aug 2005
clralb
Member
Member # 17185
Default  Posted: 5:23 PM, June 3rd (Monday)

Right on, Newlease.

Your story sounds similar to mine, minus the kids, but all of the emotions and paralyzing grief had ahold of me. I began to think of ex as dead and mourned the loss of who I thought he was and who I thought "we" were. There never really was a "we." I see that now.

Sorry to t/j, Abbon. Stay strong.


"To keep the body in good health is a duty... otherwise we shall not be able to keep our mind strong and clear."
Buddha

Posts: 681 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: southeast
ButterflyGirl
Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 5:33 PM, June 3rd (Monday)

I know not everyone here agrees...but I told my kids the truth. Age appropriate, of course, but the truth.

I agree. Mine both know the age-appropriate truth.

I think this is an especially a good idea if the children are already being exposed to the affair partner.. The children will eventually figure it out, and I think it's better if they always had at least one parent they could trust to tell them the truth..


xBW~ 35
Two DS~ 7-Eleven
"I've wiped the shit off. It can be wiped off you know." ~ asurvivor

Posts: 2304 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
JustDone
Member
Member # 9742
Default  Posted: 5:44 PM, June 3rd (Monday)

I thought I was detaching until this morning. Now I feel like I did six months ago. Just wracking sobs all day. I guess it's normal to cycle like this?

Yes, it is.
Remember S.W.I.R.L., too:

S.W.I.R.L. is an acronym which stands for the five stages of abandonment: Shattering, Withdrawal, Internalizing, Rage, and Lifting

You S.W.I.R.L. through the stages over and over within an hour, a day, a month, sometimes a period of years – - cycles within cycles – - until you emerge out the end of the funnel-shaped cloud, a changed person, better able to find love than before.

http://www.abandonment.net/swirl-the-five-stages-of-abandonment

Hang in there, Abbondad.


Forgiveness is giving up the possibility of a better past.

Nobody forgets what happens, the secret is learning to live with it.


Posts: 2795 | Registered: Feb 2006
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 5:59 PM, June 3rd (Monday)

Help... After the distressful episode with my son this afternoon (see above), I find myself googling "How long do long term affairs last," "Is reconciliation possible after a long term affair," etc.

Reel me in, smack me, assure me that this is normal... Anything.

The reality of it is starting to sink in for him: he has been asking tearfully about Christmas (always the most wonderful family time of the year even though we're Jewish ;-), vacations, etc. I am so despondent.

He also said shakily yesterday, "I think Mommy already met someone she likes." My heart sank--not that I was surprised, but angry she was possibly exposing OM to,him before the divorce is finalized, which is something she assured me she would not do. (Not that I believe anything she says.)

Turns out there is some creep at the apartment complex where she is living who,has been hitting on her. Bizarrely, she took great pains to assure me she has made it clear to him to back off. To assuage my concerns or fears! WTF?

No mention of the actual OM and what's happening with that match made in paradise.

I know, thinking too much about her, but son was very upset about it. I simply said, "Mommy can do what she wants." Probably a lame response, but it's all I had at the time.

Thank you.

[This message edited by Abbondad at 6:07 PM, June 3rd (Monday)]


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 6:28 PM, June 3rd (Monday)

I pretended he died.

I have often wished she had. Not I. A vindictive way--I love her--but it would be SO much easier. Maybe horrible or selfish to say... But my biggest fear used to be my parents dying. How would I survive without them? How would I ever get over it?

And then they died. And I suffered. I howled. I grieved. But it got better very steadily.

It always shocks me because the intensity of grief I am in far outweighs the grief I experienced over my parents' death.

I guess it's because I know they really are gone, physically. There is simply nothing I can do about it. Plus they never hurt me; there were no unresolved issues over which I might have been tormented.

They are not "out there" in life, enjoying themselves without me. There is no betrayal.

Strange thing, forms of grief....


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
LoveRising
New Member
Member # 38688
Default  Posted: 8:50 PM, June 3rd (Monday)

They are not "out there" in life, enjoying themselves without me


Way-way-wait. You have to stop thinking like this, Dad. WW ain't enjoying NOTHING ( ;-) that's for you, prof).

WW is in utter misery because she is BROKEN and ILL. She gets no joy out of OM, only momentary gratification. She has no joy, no enjoyment. She is an empty shell of a person from EVERYTHING you have described about her behavior, communicative and otherwise. Get it out of your head that she is off having this wonderful life while you are left sobbing.

Then your next assignment (I can teach, too!!) is to think about, journal about, and start to internalize the fact that this fairy tale romance you have constructed for the two of you is a fairy tale. It doesn't exist. If it did at one time, it doesn't anymore and it's not coming back. That may seem brutal and the thought of it made me sob and sob and sob when I had to realize it. But when you truly realize THAT PERSON DOESN'T EXIST and neither does that fantasy relationship (at least anymore), you will be healing at last. And, it is even possible that you will realize that it never was what you thought it was. That thought may seem horrifying to you now, but in a relatively short amount of time in my situation, it was really freeing.


Posts: 35 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Oregon
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 9:29 PM, June 3rd (Monday)

I'll reel you in a bit about the whole *maybe-it-can-work-out* scenario.....

Normal.

You see your kid hurting and upset and you want to *fix* it. So you start doing the mental gymnastics of how *you* can make it work.

Sad fact is that you can't. Just as you have to go through your grieving process, your son needs to go through his. And your job is to help to give him the skills and the tools that he needs to get through this. "Mommy can do what she wants" is a fine response. It teaches him that other people think for themselves and her *problem* isn't his to fix or solve. (lesson #1). Rugsweeping is not allowed. (lesson #2)

I've told you before that Sultan pulled the whole "we're gonna be a happy family" bullshit on my kids. And then reneged. And then reneged again. I will never....not EVER...forgive him for jerking them around like that.

You know that your WW would just stomp all over their little hearts again if she gets her foot in the door.

Just carry on, AD. You're doing fine. There IS an end to this crap eventually.....you just have to walk through the fire to get there.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8075 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 7:46 AM, June 4th (Tuesday)

AD - Stop - The M you knew, the woman you loved is no more. Yah she is still alive, but she is definitely not the person she was or who you believed she was. You need to remind yourself of the mean, vindictive, ugly person she has become when you have these thoughts, and wishes.

And YES it is normal to wish separation occured by death. It would be oh so much simpler. I R'd, and I too wished this more than once, my H had massive MI 2 weeks after his 40th birthday, and was in the throws of his A at the time, I knew something was wrong, but had no proof at that point. So yah the thought crossed my mind "too bad he lived" It would have been hard, but again it would have been so much easier....

I also believe that you will feel much much better once you know how this whole thing is going to play out, so when you meet with the mediators, or actually file. This will make it real, and give you and idea of what to expect.
Fear of the unknown is very hard to manage, and creates overwhelming anxiety in almost every aspect of life. Remember the college days, and taking a test in a really hard class and worrying yourself to death waiting for the grade to be posted? Ever get a bad diagnosis, but had to have more testing, or wait to get answers from the Dr? The anxiety you are feeling is the same type as this, there is a real chemical reaction that happens when it occurs. You need to allow yourself a specific time frame to have your crying jag each day, preferably after the kids are in bed, and then when it hits you during the day, do something physically taxing. This does 2 things, causes your brain to focus on what you are doing AND releases endorphins, go get yourself some yoga CD's this takes a great deal of focus.

You will get through all of this, and you will find as time goes on that each day will be a little better, and then you will suddenly realize one day that hey I am actually happy.

((((and strength ))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8698 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 10:33 AM, June 4th (Tuesday)

Hi, Everyone,

Bad news and good news.

I backslid badly. In the midst of one of my breakdowns I told my wife that I can't let go of our home....or us.

Forgive me. I can't forgive myself for this. I feel like I just utterly blew it, took a million steps back in my progress.

I texted this to her and even as I did, I screamed aloud at myself for writing this. It just came out.

Her response: "Ok. Now you are making me cry."

It came about when my wife texted me about her ideas for keeping the kids in the house for another year. In other words, I freaked out when I realized she was indeed going along with the divorce--not stalling, not begging to come back.

It was agonizing--her indicating this and my own response. I am horrified at myself.

I am en route to therapy, thank god.

The good news: I set up an appointment with my attorney for tomorrow morning. She is great and can be a shark or a fine collaborative attorney. (I still want collaborative, not mediation.). In any case I need her advice and really need to feel that someone has my back.

Thank you as always.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
Chrysalis123
Member
Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 10:52 AM, June 4th (Tuesday)

AD, you are going to backslide. And every time you do, I hope you will notice you recover more quickly. The you will notice the episodes are farther apart.

And one glorious day, you will notice you are detached and indifferent.

I am an elementary teacher. The kids that handle this the best are the kids that know age appropriate truth.

If they don't know the truth, they concoct something horrible usually starring themselves as the evil-doer.
They say /think things like, "If only I hadn't argued with Mommy she would still be here."

Please consider telling him the truth. It will ease his suffering and anxiety to know there is a reason for this.

Secondly, you want him to KNOW you will always tell him the truth, ALWAYS.


Don’t get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well. 

Posts: 2706 | Registered: Jan 2010
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 11:15 AM, June 4th (Tuesday)

Please consider telling him the truth. It will ease his suffering and anxiety to know there is a reason for this.

Chrysalis,

Are you saying I should tell him that Mommy took a boyfriend while married to me? I just can't do that. I know the truth is so important, but I don't think this is age appropriate.

Plus it would create terrible enmity between his mother and me. And this would be even worse for him than if I lied.

Anyone else's thoughts on this? I just don't see the benefit of doing this. He will know in a few years, or at least be able to figure it out when he meets the OM. (I am sure his mom will never tell him the reason why we divorced, since she has always been convinced that her infidelity was/is "not the issue."


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
standingonmarble
Member
Member # 31217
Default  Posted: 11:33 AM, June 4th (Tuesday)

People change all the time, no one stays the same. That goes for your kids too. They will change (grow up) and as they grow up, they will learn more about the world which will cause them to change the way they think about their world.

Mommy and Daddy don't feel the same for each other as we did in the beginning, people change, just as you will. Its a fact of life.

Whirl that around in your mind for awhile and the words to say to him will come.

No contact means no new hurts. Keep the wall up with her.


At one time he was a man standing on marbles. Now I am a woman standing on marble.....

We are done fighting with each other and decide to fight FOR each other.


Posts: 738 | Registered: Feb 2011
LonelyHusband
Member
Member # 34145
Default  Posted: 11:37 AM, June 4th (Tuesday)

Anyone else's thoughts on this? I just don't see the benefit of doing this. He will know in a few years, or at least be able to figure it out when he meets the OM. (I am sure his mom will never tell him the reason why we divorced, since she has always been convinced that her infidelity was/is "not the issue."

Be nice for him to be able to think "At least dad was honest with me" instead of "why did everyone lie to me".

Been there. Done that. My family spent years avoiding the truth me with and my brother about our parents. They did it to protect us. We just wished they had had the courage to be honest.

[This message edited by LonelyHusband at 11:39 AM, June 4th (Tuesday)]


BS ( me) 41
fWS (OktoberMest) 35
D day #1 29/10/2011, D day #2 15/112011, D day #3 15/03/2012
Reconciling.
“It’s better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all”, is inadequate consolation when you vacuum up a child's hamster'

Posts: 1290 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: UK
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 11:47 AM, June 4th (Tuesday)

^^^^^THIS^^^^^


Chances are she hasn't been as sneaky with the Om as she thinks..and your DS already knows more that you think he does.

He is old enough to be told the truth. What's worse than the truth? Being lied to.

"When 2 people get married,they make promises to each other..they commit to each other..to love only each other for the rest of their lives...mommy broke that promise"

"Does mom have a boyfriend?"

"Yes,son,she does."

Simple as that.

No..WW won't like it..but who cares? You need to realize you are no longer a team...you need to do what is right by your child,regardless of what WW thinks.

[This message edited by confused615 at 11:47 AM, June 4th (Tuesday)]


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling?

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7678 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
philly172
Member
Member # 19024
Default  Posted: 3:28 PM, June 4th (Tuesday)

Anyone else's thoughts on this? I just don't see the benefit of doing this. He will know in a few years, or at least be able to figure it out when he meets the OM. (I am sure his mom will never tell him the reason why we divorced, since she has always been convinced that her infidelity was/is "not the issue."

I have not posted on your threads but I have been reading them & wanted to chime in on this one point..
I was brutally honest from day 1 with my kids who were 9, 12 & 14 at the time of WH affair.. WH did not keep OW a secret from them.. DD was 9YO & she took the A the hardest.. even going to a point of writing & asking WH to pick between her or OW, he hurt her deeply when he told her he couldn't choose. She was devastated..

I kept assuring her that WH was a little confused but he still loved her & we both did.. I made sure she knew *I* would always be there.. Yes, Dad was the villian for quite a while as your wife will probably be if you tell your son, but WHO CARES?????? She brought this on..

Not to be harsh but what do you think is better.. a son who knows he can trust his Dad to tell him the truth.. or a son who is calling you from the bathroom crying worrying about a D ? kids at that age in a separation situation need to feel confident that at least one parent will always be there.

FWIW.. My WH & I are in semi R right now & my kids are now (going on) 21, 19 & 16 & all 3 of them say the A was the hardest thing they dealt with but they also ALWAYS thank me for not hiding anything from them.. Strangely, the A brought us closer together & forged a bond between the 4 of us that no one can break.. they love their Dad but they are much much closer with me


"Sorry" works when a mistake is made, but not when trust is broken. So in life, make mistakes, but never break trust. Because forgiving is easy, but forgetting & trusting again is sometimes impossible

Posts: 4784 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: Not in Philly.. it's just a screen name :-)
Chrysalis123
Member
Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 6:57 PM, June 4th (Tuesday)


"When 2 people get married,they make promises to each other..they commit to each other..to love only each other for the rest of their lives...mommy broke that promise"

"Does mom have a boyfriend?"

"Yes,son,she does."

AD, I was thinking something just like this.


Don’t get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well. 

Posts: 2706 | Registered: Jan 2010
ExposedNiblet
Member
Member # 30803
Default  Posted: 6:58 PM, June 4th (Tuesday)

Plus it would create terrible enmity between his mother and me.

So what?

AD, with all due respect, you need to stop caring how your STBXW is going to react to things you say or do - it no longer matters.

You know your kids deserve the truth. To keep it from them is simply protecting your STBXW and putting her needs above theirs.

Why would you choose to do that?

A long time ago, when my XH and I were just starting out on this nasty road, I had the delusional idea that somehow, we would be able to have an amicable divorce, despite the issue of infidelity. We'd be friendly throughout it and when the dust had settled, we'd be able to enjoy some version of our married life together, just divorced. (Of course, we were quite pleasant with each other... at least until the topic of alimony came up. Then it got real nasty, real fast.)

The things you say sometimes with respect to your STBXW, I am getting this same vibe from you. Maybe I'm wrong, but for whatever reason, I think you are hoping that this is about as nasty as it will get between the 2 of you, and in the end, you'll still be able to be "friends".

Abbondad, you will find out soon enough on your own, but please listen to me- this hope is just a fantasy. It will not happen. I have yet to see an amicable divorce when there are boyfriends or girlfriends involved.

Look, you've made such great strides in these last few weeks. You've been given wonderful advice from many folks who have walked through the fire and lived to tell about it. By now, you are surely aware that the advice being given to you comes from a place of compassion and caring, but most of all, from experience.

Your dear son is showing signs of obvious distress now. If everyone here is urging you to tell him the truth, don't you think you should at least consider it?

As always, Abbondad, we're here for you. Good luck.


Nibs


Divorced
Me ($39.95 plus S & H)
DS1(17), DS2(15)

Enjoying this chapter in my life.
Learning that being alone does not mean being lonely.
Discovering that where I've been is not as important as where I'm going.


Posts: 355 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Right Here, Canada
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:05 AM, June 5th (Wednesday)

Hi Everyone,

Thanks as always for your thoughts/advice. I read all your posts carefully, even if I don't respond specifically to everyone. It's just so comforting to know you are out there listening and posting.

This morning I picked up our kids from the WWs apartment. It's around a half hour from their school. The reason I usually pick them up and take them to school is because if I did not, they would be late every day. She cannot be relied on to get them there on time.

So my reasoning is I do it for them, even though it benefits her. Plus I get a little more time with them on the way to school.

(For ten years, in fact, I woke her up for work every morning--even if I did not have to wake up until later.)

Anyway, this morning was really rough. Of course not only were the kids not ready, they were all sleeping. The alarm was going off and nobody was budging. As usual, she did not get them to sleep until late on a school night.

I teared up badly seeing my broken family sleeping there, like all was well, like it was for so many years. It was very very hard to see. It just seemed so normal. I miss my family so much.

This was really bad for my NC and 180. It has ruined me for the day. I cried with my children in the car all the way to school. Something I have been resolving not to do (crying in fromt of the children).

So I took my wife into the other room and told her that if I pick them up for school, I am no longer coming into the apartment--that she needs to have them ready and to send them down to the parking lot where I will be waiting in the car.

She was not pleased with this. She does not like it when i put down boundaries. But this is necessary to my healing. She is also going on another business trip for four days, so that's good. No face to face. Back to business/kid related texts.

So, just something I feel good about today (my boundary-setting.).


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
alphakitte
Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 8:12 AM, June 5th (Wednesday)

So my reasoning is I do it for them, even though it benefits her.

Check yourself when you think like this, it is more of the KISA syndrome.

It doesn't help anyone to shelter them from the consequences of lifestyle choices.

Good for you for setting boundaries. Now comes the job of maintaining them consistently.


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 350 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 8:45 AM, June 5th (Wednesday)

If she is an unfit mother, and not putting their needs first, she shouldnt have them. PERIOD.

You realize how insane this sounds right? You get up in the morning, on days that you don't have to, drive to your STBXW's home, and pick up the kids because she is incapable of getting them up fed and out the door in time for school. That sounds like poor poor parenting.

I would suggest you inform your attorney of this tidbit of info when you see them. You should rework the schedule to the point where she only gets them on days they don't have to be at school. She says she wants them, and I think she may, but it's for her own manipulative reasons. Not because she loves to spend time with her kids. She wants them, so you can't have them.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8698 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
LoveRising
New Member
Member # 38688
Default  Posted: 8:46 AM, June 5th (Wednesday)

Remember that whole fake it til you make it thing that I mentioned earlier? Changing your attitudes will lead to a change in your behavior and your way of being?

One way to to do this, I have learned through my own spiritual beliefs, is to start with the language you use. Do you notice people on here going through a divorce refer to their ex-partners as "STBXW" (or H)..?? That is hugely powerful. Quit calling her your wife. Language creates a mental reality, Dad.

Also, don't decide at 9 AM that you are "ruined for the day" and label it as so. DECIDE that even though you had a bad morning, you are going to get yourself together and do something positive for yourself to make something good out of the day. (not that you can't have a good cry when you want to, but just don't label your existence so negatively).

And GREAT job setting that boundary. As i was reading, I was thinking "oh my GOD, why is he going in?" Please, please stick to the new plan. And if she doesn't follow through by having them ready, tell her that she will need to start being responsible for her time with them, 100% (as it really should be, anyway).


Posts: 35 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Oregon
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 8:54 AM, June 5th (Wednesday)

So I took my wife into the other room and told her that if I pick them up for school, I am no longer coming into the apartment--that she needs to have them ready and to send them down to the parking lot where I will be waiting in the car.

As others have stated, this is still saving her from herself wrapped up in I am doing it for the kids. Actions have consequences and the easiest way to resolve this is that whichever parent has the kids is responsible for everything with the kids when they have them.

IMO, you should set that precedent now. For instance what happens when you go back to work and can no longer take them to school everyday or it's less convenient for you. Also your lawyer will likely tell you this but when the new school year starts make sure the school knows whatever the schedule is you agree upon as well as any custody agreements. So if your WW decides not to take the kids to school or keeps getting them their late the truancy officers or police will come knocking on her door instead of yours. Keep documenting this stuff as well.

Keep moving forward Abbondad!


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1910 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
ButterflyGirl
Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 9:58 AM, June 5th (Wednesday)

I'm sorry if this is harsh, but dude, she has you so snowed right now.

How very convenient for her that she gets her overnight for child support/visitation purposes, but you get all the hassle of waking up in the morning and getting the kids ready for school?? Really??

You HAVE to stop doing for this woman. She is not a toddler. She is a grownass woman manipulating you.

My WH is the same way, he would always feign ignorance or stupidity or inability so that I would have to pick up the slack. But he fired me from the job of picking up his slack. He's got a new bitch for that. She's obviously pretty terrible at it, but NOT MY PROBLEM.

She is NOT YOUR PROBLEM.

I know you say it's for the kids, but the best thing for the kids is for her to step up and be the damn mom. You are ENABLING her. And if she doesn't step up, document, document, document and get primary custody of those kids.


xBW~ 35
Two DS~ 7-Eleven
"I've wiped the shit off. It can be wiped off you know." ~ asurvivor

Posts: 2304 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
DeadMumWalking
Member
Member # 25341
Default  Posted: 10:15 AM, June 5th (Wednesday)

Of course not only were the kids not ready, they were all sleeping. The alarm was going off and nobody was budging. As usual, she did not get them to sleep until late on a school night.

Dude. Document. Give to your SHARK LAWYER. The crazy stops when YOU say it does.

((((Abbondad))))


Me (BS), Him (WH): early 50's
3 DS: teens!!! :)
M: 25 (19 1/2 at Dday), Together 30
Dday: Dec 2008
Limbo-ish, again (after multiple S) -- weighing my options

Posts: 2606 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: EU
Brokenpetal
New Member
Member # 39230
Default  Posted: 10:17 AM, June 5th (Wednesday)

AD, I have been following your thread, I don't have advice, but because I see a lot of myself in you. How you react, respond, feel, etc, it's pretty much the way I feel and see myself.

I started the 180 just a couple weeks ago, we are in in-house informal separation. Logistically we can't really separate probably until the end of summer. But I wanted to start to detach now, so it would be easier down the road.

Anyways, I can see myself in many of the same situations in the future, and I can see myself reacting in ways that will hurt only myself. I just wanted you to know, that reading of your struggles, and reading every ones advice, has given me some tools/ammunition and some things to think about for the future. I just wanted you to know that. When I DO leave, I will be coming back to this thread and re reading it. Sharing your struggles is helping you to become stronger, and it's helping me too. It's sad and amazing at the same time to be on this site and to see how parallel some of our lives are....

Thank you. You are courageous to be so open and share yourself so honestly with strangers, and to listen and heed their advice. I don't have that kind of courage yet, but I'm hoping to.


Posts: 38 | Registered: May 2013 | From: California
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 11:29 AM, June 5th (Wednesday)

Thanks for the feedback, everyone.

For instance what happens when you go back to work and can no longer take them to school everyday or it's less convenient for you.

I did tell her the other day that once my work resumes, I will not be taking them to school.

It is just very hard to drop her utterly to be on her own when the children are involved, you know?

So sure enough, my experience this morning has set me back a bit--lots of angry sobbing. But I think I got it out of my system before my kids get home. And I have a project lined up for the next few days--painting the bedroom. The kids will like this, and it is a therapeutic activity--transforming the house, looking toward the future (assuming hopefully I can stay in the home with the kids).


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 11:34 AM, June 5th (Wednesday)

Thank you. You are courageous to be so open and share yourself so honestly with strangers, and to listen and heed their advice. I don't have that kind of courage yet, but I'm hoping to.

Wow, Brokenpetal, thank you so much. I sure don't feel courageous in the least. But I'm sure glad I can help someone by sharing my struggles.

In house separation was awful for me. While it wasn't an "official" separation, the atmosphere was so tense and volatile. I miss my wife and intact family terribly, but it is so much better not to freak every time I heard that text alert, or wondering why she was late from work, etc. and then lying awake next to her, agonizing and analyzing why she wasn't six inches closer to me than the night before.... Real separation brings its own pain, but 180 and NC will be so much easier for obvious reasons.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 2:53 PM, June 5th (Wednesday)

It is just very hard to drop her utterly to be on her own when the children are involved, you know?
Yep, I get it man. I felt like an asshole combined with a little sad sack the first few times I actually told my STBXWW NO when she asked me to do something or I set boundaries initially. It was so easy to fall back on what USED to be. Believe me it gets easier the more you do it. If i have to pull my weight then she has to pull hers especially since she fired me from all husbandly duties. The kicker is once you actually detach and she realizes that you REALLY don't give a crap about her anymore is when the kids guilt trip usually comes out in full force. It's like the last thing they have to try to control you after you detach from them. I got hit with let's go out for family dinner or take the kids out to a museum. My response was we are no longer a family and won't be doing family activities together. I will take the kids out to do what I want and she can do the same but nothing together. Did I feel like an ass the first few times I said it, yep, but then I remembered that the fact that we couldn't do shit as a family anymore was the result of HER actions and choices not mine.

I can't speak for others but for me I am saying that's why it's best to start the trend of each parent does all when they have the kids. It takes away that form of hoovering up front. Of course if something comes up and you really do need to get the kids do it but not for something like she can't get out of bed.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 2:56 PM, June 5th (Wednesday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1910 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
standingonmarble
Member
Member # 31217
Default  Posted: 9:18 PM, June 5th (Wednesday)

You might have to deal with some lateness at school or such, but realize that it won't be for ever. Better to for her to learn now how to handle the kids when they are young than compared to when they are older and attendance/tardies can really mess them up academically.

Not that I support this but it might be a fact of life for you in this situation. Don't let her shortcomings send you off into a tizzy.

If the kids end up learning to be more responsible with their morning routine on her time, because of her inabilities, that's ok, its a great life skill to have. Your kids will learn and adapt to each house. How you guide them in adapting will be most important.


At one time he was a man standing on marbles. Now I am a woman standing on marble.....

We are done fighting with each other and decide to fight FOR each other.


Posts: 738 | Registered: Feb 2011
Ready4NewStart
New Member
Member # 38871
Default  Posted: 10:05 PM, June 5th (Wednesday)

AM I they only one that thinks this is the biggest troll on the internet right now ? If so Dad you deserve props..If not you need to nut up in a big way...Your wife is tooling you out.


Me: BH 42
WW: NPD
DD: 6/2009
Divorced: 4/2010

Posts: 14 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Southeast US
seriouslylostit
Member
Member # 23987
Default  Posted: 1:26 AM, June 6th (Thursday)

Adad,

I don't usually post but I have followed your story and want to weigh in. I have always been truthful with my kids. I want them to know they can take what I say to the bank and have the comfort and peace that the truth brings along with the love brought by the times the truth was painful to tell. They get to know they are much more important than putting myself first in pain management. And this really pays off later at a time where you need them to know you're telling them the stone cold truth (simplistic example, "if you cross the street without looking eventually you're gonna get hit" can save their lives. )

And the obvious - if you don't tell them the truth they will eventually look back once they've added 2and 2 and say to themselves - they both lied to me and were happy to keep me in a dark place of confusion and doubt. Do you want to be lumped in with stbxWW and her easy lying ways? I didn't think so.


Posts: 843 | Registered: May 2009
momentintime
Member
Member # 16394
Default  Posted: 1:33 AM, June 6th (Thursday)

....and what happens when you arrive next time and the kids don't come out of the house? You will fall back into the KISA mode, tell yourself it is for the kids, and walk up to the door and do exactly what you did today. Wife wins again, she knows you don't mean any of the boundaries you set because you fold every time.

Only you can change this. If the kids are late, it is on her. Let her face the school due to her bad behavior. Stop softening all the real life blows she should be taking. You aren't helping her. YOU CAN NOT NICE HER BACK....please learn this lesson....for all your sakes.


BS-me FWS - him
D-day 8/04
R'd

"Global editing disclaimer - I edit almost everything I post, and I am not going to post why every time."...re: Bionical girl


Posts: 2985 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: New York
jo2love
Moderator
Member # 31528
Red  Posted: 6:48 AM, June 6th (Thursday)

Ready4NewStart -

Baiting or calling out others is a guideline break. On SI we never, ever accuse a member of being a troll. In the future, let a Mod know if you have concerns.


Posts: 35846 | Registered: Mar 2011
LoveRising
New Member
Member # 38688
Default  Posted: 8:27 AM, June 6th (Thursday)

So I just picked up my nine year old from the nurse's office at school. He had called me from the restroom crying. Said he was "scared about you-know-what."

Turns out a few of his classmates had been telling him about their parents' divorces--how their mom and dad hated each other, fought all the time, one or the other didn't see them much, etc.

Sorry to revert back a couple of pages here. But I am so concerned about your kids, as I know you are. Does the school staff, or at least your kids' teachers, know what is going on? It strikes me as odd that they sent your son home to the "nurse's office" and eventually home early over this crying episode. I know my ex did everything possible to create and sustain normalcy for her DD and DS when divorcing their father. Why did he need to come home? I hope that you have support from his teacher, and that in the future, you can give him the courage when he calls to stay and do what kids are supposed to do: be in school and have fun. (Also, around here, kids aren't allowed to have their phones on and available during the school day)


Posts: 35 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Oregon
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 6:27 AM, June 7th (Friday)

Does the school staff, or at least your kids' teachers, know what is going on? It strikes me as odd that they sent your son home to the "nurse's office" and eventually home early over this crying episode. I know my ex did everything possible to create and sustain normalcy for her DD and DS when divorcing their father. Why did he need to come home?

Hi, Loverising,

Yes, his teacher was informed of the situation. There was a substitute that day, which probably helps explain why he even had his phone.

I told him to go to the nurses office, as he said he was having trouble breathing. (I'm sure he was having a little panic attack.). School is out now, so we will hopefully have some time to work on establishing normalcy so he can start the next school year feeling more at ease.

I saw my attorney yesterday, which was very helpful. She put me at ease about a lot of concerns. I know she will have my back and guide me through the process.

I miss my wife intensely though. It's been three days of total NC. I'm past the immediate withdrawals, but it is so hard to be in our house with all the memories and reminders. I can't even sleep in our bed alone.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
alphakitte
Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 8:20 AM, June 7th (Friday)

Do whatever it takes to take your life back and establish normalcy in your household. If that means switching bedrooms, or getting a new bed, do it.

It is important to establish a safe place for you and one within which you aren't triggering in front of your children.

You can do this. I totally understand the feeling that you can' t, but that is a feeling and not a fact.


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 350 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
ladies_first
Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 9:28 AM, June 7th (Friday)

I can't even sleep in our bed alone.

[DS]said he was having trouble breathing. (I'm sure he was having a little panic attack.)

These two reactions are likely connected; your DS is feeling your emotional distress.

Where do you sleep when DD and DS are at your house?

[This message edited by ladies_first at 9:28 AM, June 7th (Friday)]


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 9:43 AM, June 7th (Friday)

Time to redo the bedroom. Get a new bed, rearrange the furniture, change it up so it feels different. I think you mentioned painting it, so that's a good start.
Get rid of her stuff. If she still has stuff there, box it up, get it gone. If you aren't seeing it every day it will help.

((((and strength))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8698 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 10:10 AM, June 7th (Friday)

Where do you sleep when DD and DS are at your house?

That's the only time I sleep in "our" bed. They sleep with me.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
ladies_first
Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 10:49 AM, June 7th (Friday)

I can't even sleep in our bed alone.

That's the only time I sleep in "our" bed. They sleep with me.

Time for Dad to get himself a new bed, or whatever else it takes, so kids can get back to 8+hours of solo sleeping.

Time to google self-soothing methods, rather than teach your children co-dependent behaviors!


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
standingonmarble
Member
Member # 31217
Default  Posted: 12:04 PM, June 7th (Friday)

Nip the co-sleeping ASAP. If she finds out she could use it against you in court when settling custody.


Realize that everything you do could be used in court. Unfair, but that is the way it is, especially for men.


At one time he was a man standing on marbles. Now I am a woman standing on marble.....

We are done fighting with each other and decide to fight FOR each other.


Posts: 738 | Registered: Feb 2011
DeadMumWalking
Member
Member # 25341
Default  Posted: 12:36 PM, June 7th (Friday)

Was co-sleeping with the children something that you and WW did before the split?

If not, WHY are you doing it now?

Please do not put your children in the role of comforting you. You are the parent. Man up and fake it till you make it.

If your children are joining you because they are now afraid to sleep alone due to fear of abandonment, you need to nip this in the bud. Re-establish bedtime rituals that end up with them in their own beds, and morning wake-up rituals that reassure them that you are there for them and you are not leaving them.

If you and WW did not practice co-sleeping with your children before the split (and possibly even if you did), the others are right that this could possibly be used against you in the D.

Everyone here gets that the breakup of a family is traumatic for all involved. But you MUST figure out a way to keep yourself together in front of your kids. Be there for them, be their support, be their ROCK to lean on. Give yourself a certain time of day that you will do your crying. Or several times if necessary. But just NOT in front of the kids. Figure out how you will be strong for them.

It is not their job in life to coddle you through your D with their mother. But in several of your posts, it appears that you are putting them in that position. (Please forgive me if I misread something, but that's how it looks.) This is creating a really dysfunctional dynamic, and is not good for the children.

Please work to right this messed up scenario, do it for your children.

((((Abbondad))))


Me (BS), Him (WH): early 50's
3 DS: teens!!! :)
M: 25 (19 1/2 at Dday), Together 30
Dday: Dec 2008
Limbo-ish, again (after multiple S) -- weighing my options

Posts: 2606 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: EU
incredulous
Member
Member # 16737
Default  Posted: 1:03 PM, June 7th (Friday)

Please ask your doctor for some anti-depressants. I understand your grief; I felt it, too. I'm concerned about your children, though, and how often you seem to be sobbing with or in front of them. I think it is okay for them to see some emotion, but they need to know that you're okay.
I tried really hard to keep my wails & uncontrolled sobbing under control till DD was asleep. I found out years later that she could heart me, and was absolutely terrified by it. She was afraid to tell anybody how she felt because she thought they would take her away from me.
Please ask about meds. You will feel better, and suo will your children.

[This message edited by incredulous at 1:05 PM, June 7th (Friday)]


me: BW, now 52;
DD now 16 (adopted by me as single mom, so XWH was "Dad")
married: June, 2005, together since July, 2002
d-day: 10/21/07;
Divorced July, 2008 and he never looked back...

Posts: 1214 | Registered: Oct 2007
Chrysalis123
Member
Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 1:10 PM, June 7th (Friday)

Nip the co-sleeping ASAP. If she finds out she could use it against you in court when settling custody.

THIS!!!!!!!! How old are your kids and what sexes?


Don’t get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well. 

Posts: 2706 | Registered: Jan 2010
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 1:51 PM, June 7th (Friday)

Co sleeping is quite unhealthy for all parties involved.

It does not allow for good solid uninterupted sleep. Each person has their own bed, and they use it. Period.

I was militant about this when my kids were small. My oldest had issues with bad dreams from about 3-8. He would wake up, and come down to our room. He didn't wake me up, but would curl up on the floor on my side of the bed, he felt safe, and he didn't wake me. I have always had sleep issues, and getting solid rest is very important to me.

My DD was only allowed to sleep with us as an infant for obvious reasons of convienence. This ended when her weekly ear infections ended. She was a binky baby, so I really didn't have an issue with her. She knew how to self sooth.

Good solid sleep for you is essential to your healing. Are you sleeping 6-8 hours a night? If not get something to help with that. Your body needs that to help you heal overall. Good clean sleeping habits are essential too. Same bedtime routine, if you don't fall asleep in 15 minutes of laying down, get out of bed, and do something quiet, reading etc. NO ELECTRONICS THOUGH.

Others are right too, if the Vindictive WS catches that they are sleeping with you, bad accusations could fly. Sorry.

You are getting stronger each day. You will be such a catch when you get through all of this....


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8698 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 12:51 PM, June 10th (Monday)

Uh Oh did I kill the AD page????

AD let us know how you are.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8698 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
standingonmarble
Member
Member # 31217
Default  Posted: 6:22 PM, June 10th (Monday)

I don't think so, I hope he had the kids this weekend and it went well. I hope he held his boundaries in place and stayed strong. I hope he posts soon.


At one time he was a man standing on marbles. Now I am a woman standing on marble.....

We are done fighting with each other and decide to fight FOR each other.


Posts: 738 | Registered: Feb 2011
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:50 AM, June 11th (Tuesday)

Hi, Everyone,

I am still here. Just took a break from SI to try and collect myself after a serious NC/180 falter and subsequent awful few days.

WW came over to get the kids and ended up doing laundry, cleaning my bathroom, saying something in her "shifted." Whatever the hell that means. Was wearing her wedding ring and getting close to me. She also alluded to a future together, asking if I was contacted by an employer from out of state. (We had discussed in the past moving to this state.)

What little progress I was making promptly fell apart and I spiralled back emotionally to how I felt months ago.

Her actions and words are nothing new. They have come to mean nothing to me intellectually. Yet there again appeared the "illusion of family" and it's been killing me emotionally. The "what if" and "if only" fantasies and hope have been rekindled and I am a wreck.

As a result I have not begun divorce proceedings. I did see my attorney, and it was very upsetting--the reality of it, a life and family utterly dismantled, all we have worked for in tatters, financially, emotionally...

Thank you for your advice regarding the kids' sleeping arrangements. They slept in their own beds last night. My nine year old was OK with it, buy my six year old did not take it well. I had to lie with her for at least an hour before she fell asleep and then snuck out.

I know most of your will likely advise me to just push past the pain and start the divorce. But I am such a train wreck right now emotionally I just can't do it. My attorney gave me a bunch of "homework" (financial affadavit, assessment of home value, pension fund, etc.) and it is just overwhelming--or at least seems so in my emotional state.

I think I need to calm down, and get back to NC/180. I just despise these mind games, conscious or not, that my WW plays.

Thanks as always, friends.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
StrongerOne
Member
Member # 36915
Default  Posted: 10:20 AM, June 11th (Tuesday)

One thing at a time, A-Dad. Chose one of the things your attorney gave you and work on that -- give yourself a reasonable but close deadline (say, 4 days or one week) to complete it and send it in to yr atty. Then do the same thing with the next item. (eat the elephant one bite at a time...)

Please do not let your cheating soon to be ex into your house. Please. She doesn't live there. The kids don't live there most of the time. Maybe try visualizing these encounters -- when she drops off or picks up the kids, when she phones, when she texts -- and see yourself choosing NC. Work out exactly what you will say (or, not say! NC!) and do. That's a good trick for anything that makes you anxious.


DDay Feb 2011.
In R.

Posts: 872 | Registered: Sep 2012
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 10:30 AM, June 11th (Tuesday)

You need to change the locks on the doors and tell her she is not to come in anymore..she doesn't live there. As long as she continues this,you won't move forward.

Change the locks. She shouldn't be coming in and playing "wife." She shouldn't be cleaning YOUR bathroom or doing YOUR laundry. She decided she didn't want to be your wife anymore, so stop letting her mindfuck you.


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling?

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7678 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
realitybites
Member
Member # 6908
Default  Posted: 10:38 AM, June 11th (Tuesday)

This infidelity stuff knocked the you know what out of me and I am usually one smart cookie.

So don't feel bad if you need to go to the doctor or get something for anxiety. And something to help you sleep. I thought I did not need anything but once my doctor saw me she prescribed a little something to help with my sleep, etc.... and it was the best thing I did for me. Helped me thru these highs and lows.

Find out if you can ask your doctor for anything. It doesn't make you a sissy to ask for help. Because these highs and lows you go on will make you crazy.


Posts: 5672 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: florida
thenon-goddess
Member
Member # 31229
Default  Posted: 8:54 PM, June 11th (Tuesday)

Abbondad, this is my first time commenting in your threads, though I've followed them all along. Your latest update has me concerned. I think you already know there will be no more NC and no more 180. In fact, I don't think you were ever really "all in" with the 180. I think you were going through the motions, but you still are trying to shake her out of it. Lawyer or not, I don't believe you really intended to go through with any divorce.

This will all come out as a 2x4 - I'm not trying to be hard on you or mean, just telling it how I see it -

I think you are living in a fantasy. You speak of the past and how you just want that wife back, but she's not just gone...she never was. You are living in a fairy tale and your Belle is screwing Gaston. And guess what? People don't just wake up one day and decide to be a shitty person...they always were one to some degree.

I can understand your reluctance to let go. IIRC, your parents have both passed away? Is it possible that this "love" for your wife is really more about a fantasy you have created in your head and her being a constant, or the person remaining, after you lost your parents? A fear of being alone?

You have shared enough about your wife that I have a hard time imagining your wife is really a good person. I think you are hanging on to a fantasy and one day, sooner rather then later, hopefully, the truth will set in...there is no happily ever after, Abbondad. Your wife has shown you who she is, the only thing left is for you to accept it. It's really as simple as just being honest with yourself. Stop living in the fantasy and start focusing on the reality. She is not coming to her senses and her cleanign your bathroom was nothing more then an attempt to continue to keep you on the hook. You are married to a frigid ice box who could barely bring herself to hug you, let alone have sex with you. When you issued the ultimatum, she showed you - she left. She has an apartment. She is not begging you and fighting for you. That is the reality. Make a list if it helps. Stop focusing on the fantasy you created and try making a list of the negatives - it helps. I have one for my husband right now. It goes like this:

If I stay with this man, I will be staying with a man who...

was willing to leave his kids for a whore

etc. etc.

Stop focusing on those happy memories that may or may not even be a total reality, and start focusing on the now - she's not worthy of your tears, your time or your love.


Status: divorcing - I can see the light at the end of the tunnel!

Posts: 1249 | Registered: Feb 2011
momentintime
Member
Member # 16394
Default  Posted: 2:22 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

WW came over to get the kids and ended up doing laundry, cleaning my bathroom, saying something in her "shifted." Whatever the hell that means. Was wearing her wedding ring and getting close to me. She also alluded to a future together, asking if I was contacted by an employer from out of state. (We had discussed in the past moving to this state.)

Mission accomplished. You have backed off on the divorce because she played you again. She has you firmly placed as her backup plan if this all fails. Do you really think you could bury all the damage from this upheaval and pain to you and the kids, if she comes back and plays happy family as if nothing happened? Didn't you try this already?

The M you had is dead....gone forever. Major damage has been done to you and your children. You can't go back. Right now she is pushing your buttons to keep you standing still or worse going backwards in your healing, raising your hopes because she SAYS she has had a shift. Cleaning your bathroom and clothes do not make for a loving, caring wife.

THEN, after her being so nice.....well, she went back to OM, is sleeping with OM, emotionally giving to the OM. Let him be primary male in her little family.
You....you have a clean bathroom and laundry plus a boatload of false hope. Not a fair trade.

Once she sees you have backed off and she can continue to cake eat, it will be back to being cold and anger with you.
Just saying. You have to protect yourself from her emotionally yanking you around. you simply must stop the hope, it is feeding your ongoing pain. JMHO.

[This message edited by momentintime at 2:33 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)]


BS-me FWS - him
D-day 8/04
R'd

"Global editing disclaimer - I edit almost everything I post, and I am not going to post why every time."...re: Bionical girl


Posts: 2985 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: New York
PanicAttack53
Member
Member # 34195
Default  Posted: 3:35 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

Good God AD, this is just so hard to see, especially from someone who has been in your shoes and has come out on the other end of this shit storm.

I've stayed away from your thread because you were getting such good advice. I can no longer do that because It's tearing my heart out watching you go through the same mistakes I did. Please AD, get a hold of yourself. You know this woman is toxic. You know how well she plays you. Damn dude, you are her Stradivarius and she only has to pluck your strings for you to jump back and fall down the rabbit hole again. STOP.IT.PLEASE! Time to finally get off that crazy train AD and do what's right for you and your kids. Yeah, shes playing them too dude, so if you won't stand up to her bullshit for yourself, at least try and do it for them.

You've been told this over and over. Your marriage is dead! D.E.A.D! It may have never even existed. Sorry dude, but it's time to get tough with you. Go to the L and file the damn papers. Change the damn locks and *NEVER EVER* let that controlling bitch back in your house again!

NC, NC, NC, 180, 180, 180, FILE, FILE, FILE!! Those are the only things that will get you out of this mess and into a new life. A life that you and your kids deserve. Your W is batshit cazy AD and you can't keep letting her control you this way. It will only end up in more hurt, more pain and who knows what for your kids. Really dude, can you live with that!? So stop it it already... buck up and do what you know you have to for you *AND* your kids!

There *IS* life on the other side AD. A really good substantial, fulfilling life. But only if you have the balls to take hold of it. Can you do that? Can you do the right thing for your kids!? You really don't have a choice AD. Good lord, if anything, she's proven that to you time and time again!

JUST.DO.IT!!!

PEACE Brother.

[This message edited by PanicAttack53 at 3:39 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)]


Me-BH Her-XWW | B/ 59 on D-day (11/17/11) | D final on 10/1/13 I'm Lovin' life again!
Rest of the story really doesn't matter any more.
“Realize deeply that the present moment is all you have.” ― Eckhart Tolle

Posts: 898 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: Midwest
velveteer
Member
Member # 30997
Default  Posted: 3:48 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

AD - you are letting her drive here.

The "what if" and "if only" fantasies and hope have been rekindled and I am a wreck.

She has not rekindled these fantasies - you have. They are YOUR fantasies. And it is you that can stop them.

You are causing yourself more pain. She is continuing to manipulate you to her own advantage. You need to put an end to this and you need to accept this for what it is.

This is not a 2x4 - we have all been there and its hard, but it is now necessary for your own well being.

V


Divorced

Posts: 877 | Registered: Jan 2011
nomoreplease
Member
Member # 32755
Default  Posted: 8:12 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

AD,

I haven’t posted on your threads before mostly because I couldn’t really add anything that wasn’t already being said, but I think a little look at my experience here might be helpful.

I held on to any little hope my STBXWW would give me (like you), and she used that to string me along and manipulate me (much like your WW). Long story short, I spent 2.5+ years working on myself and getting to the point where she couldn’t manipulate me anymore. And do you know what? As soon as she realized she didn’t have that power over me anymore, she filed.


Divorced...and moving on!

Posts: 436 | Registered: Jul 2011
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:43 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

Good God AD, this is just so hard to see, especially from someone who has been in your shoes and has come out on the other end of this shit storm.

Panicattack,

I just read your narrative. It was very painful, and to be honest, although there is resemblance to my narrative, I am scared that it will end as yours did--with my wife simply leaving.

But I am clinging to the hope that your and others' post-divorce happiness gives me.

Everyone, I know I addressed this before (7rs, to you especially), but I just cannot shake myself of the emotional conviction that I will not be happy after divorce and "officially" losing my family. I know intellectually that fear--terror at times--is holding me back. Velveteer, you addressed this before in the context of your story and it was helpful. (You detailed what your feared and found afterwards that each fear was unjustified.).

Here is another honest admission. And it is in no way meant to be critical of anyone or presumptuous. It's just what I find myself using as excuses to stall. So it is my problem. But here is what goes through my mind after reading many of your responses. I hope you can help set me straight with regard to this (likely mistaken) mindset:

"Everyone is so sure and so strong and confident in their 2x4s. But there is so much anger at their exes. Did they really love their spouses like I love mine, despite what she has done and is doing? They can't possibly have. This woman is the love of my life. Our roots are so deep. Our marriage was largely wonderful prior to the disaster. So much love, so much intimacy, so many shared joys and sorrows. How can I possibly give this up when there is even a slim ray of hope that we can eventually reconcile?

If we divorce, reconciliation will be impossible. Too much ugliness will have occurred. And if we divorce, I will still love her and will still suffer, and probably worse; the difference will be that I will have completely dismantled what we have built over ten years."

Again this is just an honest report of what goes through my mind.

Please respond. Thank you, friends, for being here for me.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:50 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

I can understand your reluctance to let go. IIRC, your parents have both passed away? Is it possible that this "love" for your wife is really more about a fantasy you have created in your head and her being a constant, or the person remaining, after you lost your parents? A fear of being alone?

Thenon,

Your insight is right on. I have talked about this in IC. Both parents are gone. Especially difficult was the final loss, my beloved mother. When she died, I see that I did indeed invest in my wife the role of mother. Not that she resembles my mother at all in personality. But my wife "took over" that feminine presence, nurturing and motherly. (Yes I know, she was having an affair and that's not nurturing, but you know what I mean.).

This and that fear of being alone is making this so difficult. I feel like I will be abandoned my my mother again. I usually don't subscribe to this sort of Freudian stuff, but in my case I know it's the truth. And it's powerful stuff, you know? It is primal and wields incredible force.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
allatsea
Member
Member # 38923
Default  Posted: 9:11 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

Abbondad,

Remember that you have not dismantled anything. She has. You have no choice but to divorce because she is not honoring her vows.

The ugliness to which you refer is not of your doing.

There is anger at our exes becuase we have taken stock of the situation and realised that what our WS has done is truly abhorrent. That's not to say that with the right behaviour it couldn't be repaired but you should not be taking responsibility for her behaviour, only your own.
The time you spend with her, supporting and endorsing her and her failings is preventing you from seeing the big picture. Step back, take a look. She's fucked up and you are preventing her from hitting rock bottom.

Trust me when I say that I loved my wife immensely and put her on a pedestal. I practically worshipped her and told her every day that she was gorgeous and out of my league. She then went and had an affair with a man who is in a league lower than me.

Every day I don't have to tolerate her blame shifting and bullshit is a day I get stronger. I regularly take steps backward as I have to see her and we are fighting over the contact with children but I no longer want her back in this condition. I would consider it if she sorted her shit out but at the moment she is pure evil and hates me. I don't love the new her, at all. If she were cold I wouldn't give her the steam off my piss.


Me 40
WW 38
Together 19 years
Married for 9
DS(1) 9
DS(2) 7
Dday 10th Feb 2013
She moved in with POS and took kids 23rd Mar 2013. WW now has new baby
Divorced April 2014

Posts: 717 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: UK
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 9:12 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

Keep working at it. it's tough to break these cycles but you have to keep at it. you fell off the horse get back on it if you can.

Sort of 2X4 coming. Abbondad, if you don't detach and wake up from your fantasy really soon your problems are going to get much worse.

Let me explain. You have been on leave from work for months now right? At some point you will have to go back to work with this same situation still in place. The time you spent away was not successful on any of the fronts you "seem" to have been fighting for. You have made some progress in your own personal growth but you still have a ways to go with detachment. So from the outside looking in, you didn't win your wife back and you haven't successfully detached yet. This means that the roller coaster is still in full effect and it's going to get worse because the hope/misery cycle will get worse. This means you are setting yourself up for terrible performance at work which could mean future job loss or just poor performance evaluations if you are lucky. That's added stress on top of what you already have. Your kids will notice the added stress and if you do lose your job then you can no longer provide for them and WW WILL try to DESTROY you in court as she attempts to take custody of the kids.

Even if none of that happens you already recognize the cycles you are in. Once you see them no matter how much you hope and how much you fantasize about getting back together you KNOW deep inside it won't happen. This means when you cycle down it hits you harder and harder. Eventually you will not be able to handle it and you will be done. That's when you make the choice to change your situation. It just takes some us us longer than others.

Her coming over and giving you crumbs is all she is doing. Eventually you will consciously recognize it for what it is and be done. Just keep detaching because maintaining hope in the face of an unremorseful WS that is still in the A is going to eat you up more and more each day until you can't take it anymore. This will cause you more harm and she will be fine because the cake eating is back in effect. She is going to seem happy, content, and wondering why you aren't happy. You will continue to be miserable focusing all your energy on trying to win her back and not piss her off so she comes back and she won't. You have given her no reason to even thinnk about coming back. This is straight high school dating logic here. People want what they can't have and you are basically telling her you will continue to wait and all your threats are empty. She knows she can have you if she was to walk back in the door today and say she loves you while taking the A deep underground. She knows you won't file and thus has no reason to even take your threats seriously. She knows all she has to do is walk in the door say some nice things give you a kiss maybe even some sex and you are happy for a few weeks because there is hope all along OM is living it up with her at the apartment while you take care of the kids. She has seen no consequences for her actions and knows you still want her so she will continue to play you.

You just have to hope that by the time you wake up you have not done any major unfixable damage to your life, health, career, children, and financial affairs. I wish you the best man. Keep at it at, hopefully at some point you will get tired of this crapstorm and will get it.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 10:05 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1910 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
justabrokendream
Member
Member # 3075
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

This presumption kind of pisses me off.

You indicated:

"Everyone is so sure and so strong and confident in their 2x4s. But there is so much anger at their exes. Did they really love their spouses like I love mine, despite what she has done and is doing? They can't possibly have. This woman is the love of my life. Our roots are so deep. Our marriage was largely wonderful prior to the disaster. So much love, so much intimacy, so many shared joys and sorrows. How can I possibly give this up when there is even a slim ray of hope that we can eventually reconcile?

You really don't think that many on here were in the same boat? That others on here didn't love their WS with the intensity. That there weren't deaths, births, ecstatic moments, heartbreaking moments in others on here lives?

There is a part of me that will always love my ex because my son was the product of our relationship.

edited due to probably too harsh.

[This message edited by justabrokendream at 10:16 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 306 | Registered: Jan 2004 | From: CA
Newlease
Member
Member # 7767
Default  Posted: 9:28 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

I assure you that most of us were madly in love with our spouses. Some of us had a whole LIFETIME of sharing - 30 plus years of marriage.

The anger is what comes after you realize deep in your soul that they threw all that wonderful life and history away for the sake of a "fantasy." It's really crazy making.

I have been D for 8 years, after 24 years of marriage to someone I thought was the one until the end. We didn't have a perfect marriage but it was pretty good compared with a lot I see. We always had each other's back (I thought).

A few years ago I was going through some family pictures. I came across some pictures of us celebrating an anniversary (not sure which one 20+). We looked happy and in love (we were). And it did not make me sad - it pissed me off. XWH had EVERYTHING and he threw it away for a relationship that only lasted 6 months post-D.

That is where the anger comes from. You will feel it too - maybe even harder because when you finally wake up, you will see how she played you.

Sending strength and peace.

NL


Even if you can't control the world around you, you are still the master of your own soul.

Posts: 7739 | Registered: Aug 2005
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 9:38 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

but I just cannot shake myself of the emotional conviction that I will not be happy after divorce and "officially" losing my family.

I used to think this as well but then I realized that my family was already lost when my STBX had her A's. I was clinging to something that wasnt' there. Once I realized that I started to move on. My STBX will be officially moving out 9 days. I am happy as a pig in SHIT! I have already been going out and meeting new people and this is from someone that just knew my M ending was the end of the world. It's not the end but the beginning. I get a do-over and I am going to enjoy it to the fullest. You can as well it just takes you changing your mindset. Work on it in counseling and actually get out of the house and go do some stuff. you are a Prof that is very eloquent. Believe me you will be okay but you have to work on fixing you first and the positive comes after that. At least for me it did and I am sure others as well. Unremorseful WS that won't own their shit are the perpetually broken ones and even if we are broken or damaged once you recognize you need some fixing or a tune up, you get it done and move forward.


"Everyone is so sure and so strong and confident in their 2x4s. But there is so much anger at their exes. Did they really love their spouses like I love mine, despite what she has done and is doing? They can't possibly have. This woman is the love of my life. Our roots are so deep. Our marriage was largely wonderful prior to the disaster.

Believe me, if you ever wake up you will be just like us. The anger subisdes eventually but it's anger because like you we spent a shitload of time trying to win, nice or wait our WS's back into the M. It's anger at our WS's pissing away YEARS of M for whatever reason. When we finally woke up and realized how much time we wasted and the damage we had doen to ourselves and kids we got pissed. Much of that anger at least in my case was directed at myself because I allowed it to go on for so long. I controlled my actions but let HER dictate them because of my FEAR. It also happens that in my case and I am sure many that you are referring to, our spouses were unremorseful and in some case extremely unremoresful to the point of cruelty and once you wake up and realize that it does change you. It drives you to fix your own shit and no longer worry about them. Some of us have very deep pain and misery resevoirs and we can absorb and compartmentalize a ton of stuff but eventually we either break down or can't do it anymore and we are forced to see what is in front of us. Hopefully you will get there as well. I don't hate my STBXWW. I hate what she did but I also respect myself enough now to KNOW that I could never fix her and don't even want to try. I deserved better so why cling to someone that no longer wants me???? Even if she fixed herself there will never be R in our future because of my own growth and the crap that I allowed her to put me through before I woke up. Yes she had the A but me staying with an unremorseful spouse for so long was on me. The way I coped and made it through was to consider her dead to me and the fact that I had to do that to make it just means she will never be a person I can be with again. This isn't anger it's just plain truth. As I said I don't hate her. I actually pity her because she will likely remain broken forever jumping form one blackhole filling activity to another but guess what that isn't my problem anymore and I don't own it.

So much love, so much intimacy, so many shared joys and sorrows. How can I possibly give this up when there is even a slim ray of hope that we can eventually reconcile?

What you had and are clinging onto is no longer your reality. That was the old M and you have to let it go and face what is in front of you today. You can't relive the past and even if she comes back you won't forget what happens and neither will she. It will never be the same gain. Reality is in the here and now not in the past.


If we divorce, reconciliation will be impossible. Too much ugliness will have occurred.
Error Will Robinson, that is illogical Captain...R is already impossible because she is still in the A and doing nothing to change her behavior. If too much ugliness has occured for you to R after D then what about your current situation is so pretty that you are willing to remain in this current state instead of Divorcing right now. The same level of ugliness has already occured in either scenario.


And if we divorce, I will still love her and will still suffer, and probably worse; the difference will be that I will have completely dismantled what we have built over ten years."

What you built has already been dismantled you just have to realize that. She dismantled it long ago. If your house gets destroyed by a disaster and is condemned you don't go in with 1 hammer, 6 nails, and 1 piece of plywood trying to fix it. It needs to be demolished because it's no longer safe for occupancy. Your old M is the condemned house. You bulldoze that bitch to the ground in order to build a new M if your WS is remorseful and doing the work and if they aren't you still raze it to the ground because it was already destroyed and focus on building you new life.


Again this is just an honest report of what goes through my mind.
Nothing wrong with being honest. Keep being honest with yourself just don't ignore the gut feelings. Your heart will eventually catch up to your head. Mine did too after it had been stepped on repeatedly for over a year.

I wish you the best.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 9:49 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1910 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 9:55 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

And it is in no way meant to be critical of anyone or presumptuous.

Justabrokendream,

As I indicated in my disclaimer, I am aware that it may come across as presumptuous. I did not mean it to be. I was simply describing my thoughts, well aware that they are flawed. But I do apologize again for any presumptuousness on my part.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
nomoreplease
Member
Member # 32755
Default  Posted: 10:18 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

AD,

I don’t think I swung a 2x4 in my last post, I just gave you a glimpse into my reality because I believe it really applies to your situation.

Now as far as loving my STBXWW, I would say that I still do, but part of my growth over the last few years was the realization that love isn’t always nice and flowery and it can often appear very unloving. Would it be loving to give your children whatever they want whenever they want and to never discipline them? Not at all. Loving them means teaching them, showing them the ropes, helping them grow, and even disciplining them when required.

Right now your wife is that spoiled little child who thinks she is entitled to whatever she wants whenever she wants it, and you are enabling it. In this situation, ‘loving her’ means letting her feel the full devastation of her choices. So while I still love my STBXWW, I do not trust her, I do not respect her choices, and I deserve a hell of a lot better.

Part of what has helped me to give up our history is the realization that a vast majority of it wasn’t real. My STBXWW’s manipulation didn’t just start up during the A. It has been there in some form or another for our entire relationship. As you get better at recognizing it, you more than likely will be able to look back and see that a lot of what you remember as ‘good’ was her way of positioning you to give her something (at least it was in my situation).


On a completely unrelated note, you have discussed your breakdowns and ‘angry sobbing’ a couple of times, and I just wanted to say that another thing I learned in IC was that I was horrible with emotions. Basically because of some major FOO issues I often expressed anger as sadness. This had the horrible effect of me running to my WW for comfort when she had done something that would anger me and it gave her complete control over me and our relationship. I don’t know if this applies at all to you, but something to think about.


Divorced...and moving on!

Posts: 436 | Registered: Jul 2011
windows
Member
Member # 14054
Default  Posted: 10:19 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

Sounds like you can't let go...I know,BTDT medal, but I was dying a slow painful death..and I had kids..they needed me...I finally just said to myself, "Not everyone gets Cinderella". I would self talk and say "What makes you think your so special..what about all the other people that have it worse".

Even when I am down now..I still repeat that to myself.

It made me realize I am not the only one that has been through infidelity and it has been going on for years and years and others before me have survived. If Queen Katherine (Henry 8ths first wife) couldn't keep her family together then what makes me think I can. She had a broken heart just like me. There are many broken hearts out there. But what you realize is those broken hearts keep beating and beating. And life goes on...


Posts: 398 | Registered: Mar 2007
JustDone
Member
Member # 9742
Default  Posted: 10:25 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

When she died, I see that I did indeed invest in my wife the role of mother. Not that she resembles my mother at all in personality. But my wife "took over" that feminine presence, nurturing and motherly. (Yes I know, she was having an affair and that's not nurturing, but you know what I mean.).

We know what you mean.

I'm so glad that you realize that this reaction from you isn't just about your wife and her affair, but is about loss (I've BTDT).

You need to focus on yourself and taking care of yourself since now you don't have parents to help with that when you need it, or a wife who will help you with that. You DO have children you need to help with this, though, and your wife isn't doing a good job.

Would your beloved mother want to see you being treated like this?

Would you be heartbroken if someone was treating your darling son like this when he was grown-up?

Your wife isn't the woman you married. Perhaps one day she will decide to try to become a better woman. Perhaps not.

A dear friend of mine did get divorced from her husband and they later did remarry, and were happy. But they both worked very hard to get back together.

The only one working on your realtionship is you. Not working on the bathroom or the laundry - but in being a couple in love, nurturing each other, being respectful, and mothering if you need that. Meeting each others needs.

She isn't going to be mothering to you. She isn't even being mothering to her own children. This woman is in no stretch of the imagination going to replace unconditional feminine love in your life. I know you hope she can, I wish you'd look at her actions. Every. Single. Day.

Love is much more than cleaning the bathroom then going to your apartment to sleep with another man who isn't your husband.

This and that fear of being alone is making this so difficult. I feel like I will be abandoned my my mother again. I usually don't subscribe to this sort of Freudian stuff, but in my case I know it's the truth. And it's powerful stuff, you know? It is primal and wields incredible force.

Yes, it is powerful stuff, the force of an F5 tornado. I had to realize the same thing in my life, too. That the whole A mess wasn't about my AP but was about something else in my life and I had to deal with that something else.

You have to deal with having no parents, it has to be done. But you don't have the luxury of time and space to do that exclusively because you have young children and a active WW. You are going to go through a journey with your kids through this. You need to work on yourself and work on being there for them, too.

My first thought after reading your first post after the weekend was "has he had enough pain yet?"

“We change our behavior when the pain of staying the same becomes greater than the pain of changing.”


Forgiveness is giving up the possibility of a better past.

Nobody forgets what happens, the secret is learning to live with it.


Posts: 2795 | Registered: Feb 2006
thenon-goddess
Member
Member # 31229
Default  Posted: 1:25 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

This and that fear of being alone is making this so difficult. I feel like I will be abandoned my my mother again. I usually don't subscribe to this sort of Freudian stuff, but in my case I know it's the truth. And it's powerful stuff, you know? It is primal and wields incredible force.

Yes, I do know. I was there myself. My parents divorced when I was young. My dad was an alcoholic and I saw him maybe 5 or 6 times during my younger years. The last time I saw him I was 16 and I'm 34 now. He was killed in a car accident last year. My mom did remarry, but I have no relationship with my step dad. I have gone back and read diary entries from my late teens, and I see so clearly how I was looking for a "man" to be in my life and love me. There was a lot of depression and a lot of talk about not having a boyfriend and would it ever happen, etc. Those feelings put me in the position of being willing to accept whatever came along. And I did that with my WH. He was the 3rd relationship I ever had, and I totally romanticized things. How it really went was something like this:

Meet a jerk
Have sex
Accidentally get pregnant
Stay together despite the many flaws in the relationship
Have another baby (and then another and another)
Never really feel loved, but pretend because it's better then being alone and raising 4 kids on your own

What I had created in my mind went something like this:

Girl who was just cheated on, finds guy who adores her and takes care of her the way that other jerk never would. Accidentally get pregnant...it must have happened for a reason. We were meant to be together. Young little family, fighting together against the challenges life through our way. People thought we wouldn't make it, we showed them! etc. etc.

Even the affair I romanticized. Devoted dad was overseas, away from his family. He missed them so bad and he was fooled by the awful predator, OW. Poor, confused, wounded man. Needs my love. Needs his family. We will beat this too!

It was all delusion in my head. I had arranged and written just exactly what I wanted my situation to be. I lied to myself for YEARS!

It is good that you have figured out through IC that losing your parents plays a role in your current mindset. That is the beginning. Now make that list! List all of the absolute worst parts of your marriage, because they are TRUTH! They are a part of the story too. So often in life we are taught to focus on the positives, but I think with infidelity, it is the one time that we really need to focus on the crap, because it is part of our truth and is going to predict what happens to our relationship in the future. I was not in your marriage, but I would bet money that the relationship was not all love and rainbows and butterflies. I bet there was some ugly, unloved there too. Focus on that for a bit. Focus on the traits that drove you nuts about your wife (there have got to be some). Don't live in the fantasy. That little play is over now - exit to the right. Time to live in the NOW!

[This message edited by thenon-goddess at 1:26 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)]


Status: divorcing - I can see the light at the end of the tunnel!

Posts: 1249 | Registered: Feb 2011
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 2:25 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

Justdone and Thenon,

Thank you for your understanding my psychological struggle. Your posts move me.

I am taking your advice and making a "deromanticized list" consisting of all the negatives of the marriage prior to the affair. It's a difficult psychological task, as it forces me to take off the rose-colored glasses that are so firmly affixed to my face these days.

Following this list will be another cataloging the emotionally abusive actions over the course of the affair. This will be a painful list, but an easy one.

Thank you again.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
PanicAttack53
Member
Member # 34195
Default  Posted: 2:40 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

AD, once again I will not labor on here because you got such good feedback and advice from 7yrsflushed, JustDone and others. I can not add to that advice other than to say *PLEASE* try and listen to it.

BTW, my M was 38+ years. Yes there were good times and I have two wonderful kids from it I wouldn't trade for anything in the world. However, and this is a really BIG however... my stbxWW decided to throw *ALL* that away on an A. That was not my decision. It was 100% hers. I am *NOT* angry about that any more AD. I thank God every day that I woke up and realized that *she* had changed for what ever reason and that *I* had no control over that. I am now truly more happy than I've ever been in my life. You can be too brother. You just have to take the steps needed to really make it happen.

My last post was ugly for a reason. You were getting a lot of tempered advice that included support. That's great and really what SI is all about. I purposely decided to be the *bad* guy because I really do think someone needs to shake you up. 7yrsflushed put it very well to you. If you continue to play out this fantasy, you *WILL* get burned and hurt severely. I pray you wake up before that happens my friend!

ETA: Don't worry if some of what you say comes off as objectionable to others. Remember that emotions run very raw as we all work through this shit storm. You're bound to hit a nerve or two, especially considering the volume of text in your threads. We all know you don't purposely post to hurt anyone, so if you get flamed for something, just bank it in your mind and move on. Because just as you're not trying to hurt, they are just venting frustration. It's all normal considering the subject matter.

PEACE


Me-BH Her-XWW | B/ 59 on D-day (11/17/11) | D final on 10/1/13 I'm Lovin' life again!
Rest of the story really doesn't matter any more.
“Realize deeply that the present moment is all you have.” ― Eckhart Tolle

Posts: 898 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: Midwest
CheaterMagnet
Member
Member # 33581
Default  Posted: 3:14 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

AD,

I loved my ex-WH so intensely losing him drove me insane. Literally. Having my life erased and being reduced to less than nothing (in my mind) drove me to suicide attempts and I ended up committed. I was in such pain I felt like I was being barbecued alive. It was intensely physical.

Please do not think for one minute that any of us don't know what it is to love intensely. With everything that you are and everything that you have. To feel that physical tearing when they leave to go to their AP leaving us eviscerated and bleeding out on the floor as they step over our corpse.

We survived. Sometimes to our dismay initially. However, down the road we learned to be happy. We learned the difference between fantasy and reality. We learned to see the person we loved as they truly were. And we learned to be healthy and detach.

Don't let the fact that I am back at SI throw you. I did find love again. I AM happy even though I'm back here. And I've learned enough that I can cope this time. I don't like it, but I know I will survive. My M may not, but I will.

You will too.

((((((HUGS)))))) to you my friend.


If Happy Ever After did exist, I would still be holding you like this.
All those fairly tales are full of shit.
One more fucking love song I'll be sick. ~ Maroon 5

Posts: 1037 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Kailua-Kona, HI
alphakitte
Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 3:37 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

"Everyone is so sure and so strong and confident in their 2x4s. But there is so much anger at their exes. Did they really love their spouses like I love mine, despite what she has done and is doing? They can't possibly have. This woman is the love of my life. Our roots are so deep. Our marriage was largely wonderful prior to the disaster. So much love, so much intimacy, so many shared joys and sorrows. How can I possibly give this up when there is even a slim ray of hope that we can eventually reconcile?"

I think that if you dig deep regarding the disaster, of which you speak, that you will find it was much longer in the making preceding the event and involved the erosion of respect and dignity, which are just a couple of the elements most want in a loving relationship.

[This message edited by alphakitte at 3:52 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)]


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 350 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 3:59 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

AGain you have recieved great advice. Please take it, please use it.

Please STOP letting her manipulate you if ONLY for the reason of stopping the madness and confusion for your kids. Please.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8698 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
momentintime
Member
Member # 16394
Default  Posted: 6:07 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

AD, everyone thinks their own situation is different. That somehow everyone's experiences couldn't possibly be like yours.

Well the truth is, the WS handbook is all so similar. What she is doing is text book. And you refuse to accept what she is showing you. She wants the OM. She lives with OM. She takes OM's opinions and advice over you. You are the problem to her. She wants you as a security blanket, to not rock the boat for her benefit not yours. She is asking you to swallow her infidelity and wait in the background in case this A falls apart. She doesn't want you out of love.

Please stop looking and hoping for the outcome you want and look at the reality of your situation. What you have now, is no wife, and damaged M, and upset kids. You cling to the thought you are waiting for the kids so you don't have to face divorce.

Deep down you know you have lost her. Stop erasing the picture and redrawing it by putting the fantasy she will come back and love you and all will be as before. It can NEVER be as before. Not ever. Please face this.


BS-me FWS - him
D-day 8/04
R'd

"Global editing disclaimer - I edit almost everything I post, and I am not going to post why every time."...re: Bionical girl


Posts: 2985 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: New York
crazynot
Member
Member # 24572
Default  Posted: 5:10 AM, June 13th (Thursday)

Abbondad, when my ex started his affair, I thought I'd die from grief. We met when we were 18, at university, and had been everything to each other for 24 years, through the birth and childhood of our son and daughter, the deaths of our fathers and other extended family tragedies. We were the rock of our family and each other's soulmates, I thought. I felt I'd be nothing and die without his presence, without his love. I felt his leaving would destroy our family and that anything was worth it to save that. This is a stage of the process, Abbondad - maybe the worst one. I would NEVER have believed you then if you'd said I'd come to a stage where I felt no anger, even, towards him. I love him as a friend, and as my kids' dad, that's all now. I love someone else (though that's another tale), and the kids are absolutely flourishing. All things are possible, Abbondad, apart from loving your wife back into being the person you wish she was. I'm telling you this because, though you won't believe it now, there IS peace, freedom and happiness beyond this point - but ONLY if you now believe in yourself , and your right to the sort of life that can only come after the end of this situation.


Me - 50
Him - 51
DDay 21 March 2009
Divorcing and delighted!

Do you want me to tell you something really subversive? Love is everything it's cracked up to be. That's why people are so cynical about it.


Posts: 873 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: UK
Weatherly
Member
Member # 18222
Default  Posted: 8:57 AM, June 13th (Thursday)

Everyone is so sure and so strong and confident in their 2x4s. But there is so much anger at their exes. Did they really love their spouses like I love mine, despite what she has done and is doing? They can't possibly have. This woman is the love of my life.

Anger and hate aren't the opposite of love AD. Indifference is. I am mainly indifferent to my ex, except when he hurts the kids, which is all too often lately.

I recently read through my old posts, the ones from when I first joined. I loved my ex. I was sure of it. I knew there was no one else for me. I knew we could work through it all. You say you put up with all her crap, and that shows how strong your love is for her. If I say I put up with my ex having affairs and being emotionally abusive, does that show how much I loved him? What about when I say I stayed after he tried to run me over? Does that show how deeply I loved him? Or how deeply damaged I was? The thing is, I saw it as love, not damage until long after he was gone.

Eventually, I realized, the only thing salvageable in our relationship was me. You can't rebuild a house from splinters. I couldn't fix him, but I could fix me. It was only then, that I realized how wrong he had been, how badly I had been treated. I'm years out, and sometimes randomly remember treatment that I cannot believe I ever tolerated.

Like thenon-goddess, he wasn't the only one re-writing our history.

Young lovers against the world. His parents hated me and my parents thought he was kind of a dick.

We'd been through so much and fate and deep love kept us together. We fought a lot about his female friends, I called off the wedding, then an accidental pregnancy that we were trying to make "right".

I'd stand by him through anything! all the times he got fired or overdrew our checking account. the times he punched the holes in the walls, and even the emotional affairs.

Hard times pulled us apart, each of us with our own struggles, but, love would keep us together and we would come out stronger! I had postpartum depression, he decided to start cheating. I started to get better, he found he liked cheating. I rug swept.

And finally, the guilt he felt over the damage he caused was just too much for his poor tortured soul to handle and he lashed out for the final time and we were finished. *end scene*. Or you know, he wanted to have his cake and eat it too, and I closed the bakery. Again, 5 years later, he is EXACTLY the same as he was the last night we lived together. He has been through dozens of houses, jobs, and girlfriends in those 5 years. None of it ever works out, he never knows why, life is just so horrible for the perpetual victim, and he is still a cheater.

AD, we are so confident in our responses because we've seen it. We ALL loved our exs like you love your WS, believe it or not. We've all seen the damage we caused ourselves and our kids because we held on too tight for too long. We've all been on the roller coaster. We all had to decide whether to go down with the ship or jump into the stormy waters and try and swim for shore.

And, I think you can swim better than you think you can, you just keep wearing yourself out getting away and swimming then swimming back.


Me-29,Two boys, 10 and 9

It will all be ok in the end. If it's not ok, it's not the end

Happily remarried to a wonderful man (Aussie). I think I found the right guy and the right finger this time.


Posts: 4489 | Registered: Feb 2008 | From: Indiana
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 6:23 PM, June 14th (Friday)

AD, we are so confident in our responses because we've seen it. We ALL loved our exs like you love your WS, believe it or not. We've all seen the damage we caused ourselves and our kids because we held on too tight for too long. We've all been on the roller coaster. We all had to decide whether to go down with the ship or jump into the stormy waters and try and swim for shore.

And, I think you can swim better than you think you can, you just keep wearing yourself out getting away and swimming then swimming back.

Thank you, Weatherly, and everyone else. I wrote the list--my own rewriting of our marriage and her character vs. the reality--and it was a long one indeed.

The last few days she's been sending me hints about some houses she's been looking at that WE could afford... How WE could possibly move... In other words, allusions to OUR future. Words, at this, point, mere words. No change in her actions.

She came to pick up the kids this evening and was in a foul mood, rather nasty to me in fact--yet another reminder that she has never been all sweetness and light. This is the veil I have been casting her in. To my credit, I did not engage her--just stared at her and let her rage so she could hear how horrible she sounded.

Her behavior helped dry up any tears that would have usually welled up at her arrival.

This approach--my illision vs. reality--is really helpful.

Thanks, Everyone!


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 5:57 AM, June 16th (Sunday)

My first thought after reading your first post after the weekend was "has he had enough pain yet?"

Yes, I have, friends. Our poor nine year old found on my wife's phone a text and pic she sent to the OM of her breasts as well as his leering response. My son is shocked. I am devastated yet again.

I have told my son the truth--the reason I am divorcing mommy.

Please send me strength to get through this process.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
crazynot
Member
Member # 24572
Default  Posted: 6:17 AM, June 16th (Sunday)

I can feel the shock with you. That's a horrible thing to happen to your son. Time to put some protection around you and your kids, Abbondad, and disconnect from her as far as you can. When you divorce her, she can't hurt you any more. Imagine a day when these things can't happen to you or your kids. That's a very inappropriate thing to happen to a young child - ask your lawyer for advice about it and what it means for her access.


Me - 50
Him - 51
DDay 21 March 2009
Divorcing and delighted!

Do you want me to tell you something really subversive? Love is everything it's cracked up to be. That's why people are so cynical about it.


Posts: 873 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: UK
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 7:50 AM, June 16th (Sunday)

Oh no. That poor,sweet boy,to have discovered the truth in such a vulgar,shocking way. That image of his mother is one he will never forget(I had a similar experience when I was about 11).

How is your WW handling this? If she is not remoreseful with her child..YOUR child..get her the Hell away from him asap. Her being his mother doesn't give her the right to fuck him up. She *needs* to be apologetic,remorseful,disgusted with herself,own ALL of this,and attend counseling with this poor child.

He just found out the reason his daddy has been so sad,the reason his mommy moved out,the reason his family has fallen apart is all because of his mommy..and his mom is the type of woman to not only have an affair and send nude pics of herself to men who are not her husband,but he knows his mom was willing to break his heart for this other man.

You did good,AD,being honest with him. Keep being honest,whether your WW likes it or not. No matter what,you tell that little boy the truth(in age appropriate terms,of course). You also need to tell him his mommy loves him, but right now her mind is messed up and she needs to get help.

Happy Father's day,my friend. Enjoy those kids today. Make sure they smile and laugh..do something fun. Let them know that,while a lot has changed in their world,you are still their daddy,and you will always be there for them. Keep your chin up,and be strong for them.

Also,siblings talk. You need to sit your DD down and tell her in an age appropriate way,the truth. Otherwise your DS will tell her and she will be confused..or worse..go to your WW for answers..and confuse the child even more.

[This message edited by confused615 at 7:52 AM, June 16th (Sunday)]


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling?

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7678 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:45 AM, June 16th (Sunday)

Thank you... I will do all those good things with my kids.

I confronted my wife--told her what he found and that he is very upset.

Asked her if she does not find this disgusting? Told her she is forty two, not fifteen.

True to form, SHE is angry at ME. Furious. "WE are not going to put our children through this," she said, incredibly.

Not a word of remorse. No apology. Just an insinuation that I am using our children against her.

It's just getting uglier. She is truly ill. Beyond fog land. Disordered.

She actually tried to deny it at first, saying that the pic is not on her phone. Ok, whatever. So maybe he saw it a few days ago and it has been erased.

I can't even explain what I am going through right now. At least anger has found its way to the forefront of my emotions. I just want to be away from her so she can't hurt me any more.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 9:04 AM, June 16th (Sunday)

I have just reread everyone's posts in my thread--especially the 2x4s. They all make such sense now.

"No, they are wrong..."
"Uh uh. That is not true in MY case."
"No way would my WW do that."
"She is not really seeing the OM anymore. She is just healing and then she will see the light and come back full of remorse."
"Yeah, but these people went through much worse. They don't really get MY situation. Mine is different."

Etc. etc.

I was wrong about everything. Thank god for SI. Thank you everyone for staying with me and helping to steer me away from my own denial, rationalizations, justifications, and false hopes. In other words, my own BS Fog.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
ButterflyGirl
Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 9:15 AM, June 16th (Sunday)

Hi Abbondad. Happy Father's Day.

I just wanted to share with you that I called DCF yesterday against my STBX and his OW based on things the children have told me. Of course, he is denying those things and blaming me and cursing me out, etc., etc., which is truly crazy-making. My L has suggested that I take videos of the children, asking them to show and tell me what happened with their father. I would suggest you do the same when the children tell you stuff like that. They've just been exposed to porn, and that's very serious. I would very much recommend that you take video of him admitting it so that you can prove later on what he said to you and that you are not making things up. I have normally been having someone else take the video as discreetly as possible..

Please protect yourself. I know it's hard to get your heart up to speed, but she definitely sounds like a manipulating unremorseful woman with at least some NPD. Please accept that, accept that you cannot fix her, and do whatever you must to protect yourself and your children.

Big hugs to you today..


xBW~ 35
Two DS~ 7-Eleven
"I've wiped the shit off. It can be wiped off you know." ~ asurvivor

Posts: 2304 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
Chrysalis123
Member
Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 10:00 AM, June 16th (Sunday)

My son is shocked. I am devastated yet again.

AD, I am so sorry your son saw that.
I am thankful he has you, and you are coming out of the fog!

Time, to not be devastated any more. Time to understand THIS IS HOW SHE IS.

Put your armor on, her behavior will become worse, she will demonize you, you will be turning the kids against her, and she will push every button on you to get the old you under her thumb.

We've got your back AD. You have come so far.

Happy Father's Day


Don’t get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well. 

Posts: 2706 | Registered: Jan 2010
FaithFool
Member
Member # 20150
Default  Posted: 10:07 AM, June 16th (Sunday)

AD, so sorry to hear this. What a horrible thing for a little one to find.

Time to lawyer up bigtime and bitchslap this sick selfish cow back to reality.

[This message edited by FaithFool at 10:07 AM, June 16th (Sunday)]


DDay: June 15, 2008
Mistakenly married Mr. Superfreak
20 years of OWs, WTF?
Divorced Dec 26, 2011
"Life is a shipwreck, but we must not forget
to sing in the lifeboats". -- Voltaire

Posts: 17488 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: Canada
nowiknow23
Guide
Member # 33226
Default  Posted: 10:48 AM, June 16th (Sunday)

(((((Abbondad & kids)))))


You can call me NIK

"If you carry joy in your heart, you can heal any moment."
- Carlos Santana


Posts: 25716 | Registered: Aug 2011
Dark Inertia
Member
Member # 30727
Default  Posted: 10:52 AM, June 16th (Sunday)

Wishing you luck and a happy father's day.


"If I listened earlier, I wouldn't be here. But that's just the trouble with me. I give myself very good advice, but I very seldom follow it."

Posts: 1280 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: The Ohio
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 11:20 AM, June 16th (Sunday)

I'm very sorry to hear this is happening brother. in her ever devolving spiral, I'm actually surprised that she didn't out right blame your son.
it has been said before and I will reiterate that you need to file for divorce and primary custody. her only concern is herself and her own well-being.
as others have suggested you may want to contact child protective services. it may be time to ask for supervised visitation for her. and what other ways is she lacking judgement for the care and well being of your kids?

as always I wish you strength.


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2979 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 11:45 AM, June 16th (Sunday)

as others have suggested you may want to contact child protective services

Thank you. I just spoke with my wonderful therapist who is involved with CPS and she alluded to the same thing. This is simply unacceptable and revolting.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1626 | Registered: Dec 2012
jo2love
Moderator
Member # 31528
Red  Posted: 11:45 AM, June 16th (Sunday)

Please use this thread for updates.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=499289


Posts: 35846 | Registered: Mar 2011
Topic Posts: 306