SurvivingInfidelity.com Forums
Reconciliation
User Topic: perspective please
jasonguitarboy
Member
Member # 22939
Default  Posted: 7:52 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

Help me see this from the wayward side...

I feel second best. I feel like she's settling for me because she just can't be the "evil woman" who destroyed her family. I feel she'd rather be with him and I'm sitting here watching her trying to forget OM. She says I'm not second best yet this guy was so amazing she was OK lying to me for a year to be with him. She was willing to gamble me away for a mere chance with him. She says three hours could go by like 5 min... never said that about me. She used her pet name for me with him (seriously, WTF?). She was sooo "head over heels for him".

Seriously, sometimes I feel like I've stood in her way of real happiness..... come on, its kinda the definition of second best. You're not special enough to this person for them to do something as simple as not fuck someone else? To not seek out the attention of another person?

Tell me how we're NOT second best, second choice... whatever. It seems to me that we BSs are literally second choice. If we were truly that special to you this wouldn't have happened. I bet you wouldn't take any chances that would possibly lead to you losing your diamond rings or your cool sports cars or whatever it is that's special to you. Why is it so easy to throw us to the side and do something like this. In my mind it is because we just aren't that special to you. At least not special enough.


What doesn't kill us makes us stronger.....right?
"And there's a change, that even with regret, cannot be undone."
"No one plans to take the path that leads us lower..."
Me-BS 35
Her-WS 32 (surviving1979)

Posts: 189 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: nowhere
cuppacoffee
Member
Member # 39313
Default  Posted: 7:59 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

dude i am sitting here feeling this way. i hope someone provides some perspective.


I'm like a vacuum bag
That holds all that old dirt
Remember that time we said we'd be together forever?
Don't hate me, don't regret me, don't ever forget me
Wherever you go, whatever you do, don't say I never loved you

Posts: 360 | Registered: May 2013
twodoves
Member
Member # 39181
Default  Posted: 8:16 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

I think about this all the time


Me - BS
Him - WS (N3v3rG1v1ngUp)
Together 7 years, married for 2
He was cheating for 5 years
5 OW
D-days: 4/23/13, 4/27/13, 5/10/13
1 toddler, baby girl on the way in December

Posts: 160 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Illinois
mamak
Member
Member # 35969
Default  Posted: 8:21 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

One of my WH's emails to OW said this : "I want you, I want you more, but I have to do this right." That was 2 months before dday. He confessed his love to her 2 days before I found out. In his breakup email to her, he wrote that he felt obligated to give his marriage a chance because everything I have gone through (10 years of marriage at the time, 5 deployments, one being almost a year long, and three being to Iraq.....never once did I get close to straying....).

Hearing that I am an obligation (which he denies, says that he just didn't want to get her mad and have her keep calling him) has stuck with me.

I feel second best, the silver medal....the consolation prize.


Me - 37, Him - 34
Married - 12 years
Three kiddos (oldest is mine) - 9, 11,13
DDay #1 - 4/21/2012, Discovered 3 mo. EA (texts, phone calls, nude pics, sexting, 1 kiss)
R - 4/24/12. R going well

Posts: 287 | Registered: Jun 2012
hobbeskat
Member
Member # 38805
Default  Posted: 8:34 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

Same here.

Posts: 308 | Registered: Mar 2013
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 9:02 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

JGB,

What is she doing to fix herself?

It always about the waywards brokenness, their inability to cope with whatever hole, poor coping mechanisms or poor processes that are going on inside of them. It is not about the spouse, not about the M. It is not about the spouse being second best.

It was never that for me, and I know that was not the case for my H either as we are madhatters. I know it was about his brokenness.

I hope ever BS can someday get to a point where they truly understand it was not about them.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4729 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
Jrazz
Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 9:08 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

There is a thread in our I Can Relate forum specifically set up for BS's to ask questions for WS's. I'm just suggesting it because a lot of our awesome FWS's check it in order to help with perspective questions.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=470108

Hope this helps.


If you can't learn to enjoy your life when you have problems, you may never enjoy it because we'll always have problems. - Joyce Meyer

Posts: 16958 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
brokensmile322
Member
Member # 35758
Default  Posted: 9:10 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

Good question...

I don't feel special anymore. And since dday, I have become more aware of who my WH is...someone I didn't know existed.

I guess I had him on a pedestal.

At any rate, I am now fully aware that he finds so many women attractive. I used to think he had a 'type'. I've come to find out that no, he doesn't have a type. Makes me feel like he would 'tap' just about anything with a spot to do so. KWIM?

I just don't feel special or the most beautiful thing to him. Second best as you put it...and, frankly, I think this makes me ripe for the picking.

Don't like to say it, but it is the truth.


Me BS 42 Him WS 44
OW Coworker DDay April 7, 2012
EA on a slippery slope...

When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves. ~Viktor Frankl

"When you are happy, you can forgive a great deal."


Posts: 1441 | Registered: Jun 2012
Mrs Panda
Member
Member # 27303
Default  Posted: 9:20 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

I know my BH felt like this. That if given the choice, I would have picked OM.

It was a bullshit fantasy based on lies and mutual mental mastabation.

There was no real life. No shared experience. No trust. No honesty. No depth.

I can buy my own diamonds and sports car. I chose my BH. I am so fortunate he chose me, despite my horrible actions.

He was never second best. I lost sight of our love and what he meant to me. I pushed it down. I am forever sorry for that.

He may not ever believe 100 percent. But I know. He is simply the best.


Me-41 FWW Him-45BH
M 13years. Reconciled.
DDay#1 Nov 2008 (OM2)
DDay#2 Aug 2009 (Confessed to OM 2001)
"Those who believe in telekinetics, raise my hand." -Kurt Vonnegut

Posts: 1971 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: The SouthEast
knightsbff
Member
Member # 36853
Default  Posted: 9:23 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

What TG said applies to me as well.

It was about me. In reality my BH was never second to the AP, however during the A I put him, my kids and my M second to my self. I was self-destructive, emotionally immature, and driven by a desperate need to escape being with myself.


FWW 40's
D-day August 27, 2012
3 kids and 2 dogs

Posts: 1409 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Deep South, USA
UnexpectedSong
Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 9:39 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

I bet you wouldn't take any chances that would possibly lead to you losing your diamond rings or your cool sports cars or whatever it is that's special to you.

Makes me feel like he would 'tap' just about anything with a spot to do so. KWIM?

Are you guys really asking or just venting?


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6089 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
Angel177
Member
Member # 37274
Default  Posted: 9:39 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

I feel like the second choice too. Every time he was with her he could have been with me, I was sitting at home waiting for him. He didn't come around to R until she wanted nothing more to do with him. Now I feel like his first choice but I wonder if she showed up at our door would I still be his choice? He says I would but he lies. I think I would be his first choice because he has changed so much but I will never again be 100% sure and that's one of the many consequences of his choices that I have to live with. It sucks.


Me:BS
Him:WH
D-Day Sept. 14/12...R started Dec. 3/12
Together-10 years Married-5 years
Daughter-3
Son-13 months (died July 2, 2014)
Baby #3 due Feb. 2015
4 month EA and 4 month EA/PA in 2012 with my "friend"

Posts: 234 | Registered: Oct 2012
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 9:43 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

We become second best because of the sheer, numbing familiarity of marriage. When it become monotonous; kids get on your nerves, petty resentments, tired of routine sex and complacency, then along comes the walking, talking fantasy and your BS has little chance to compete on a level playing field.

The AP represents unfulfilled dreams and aspirations; an escape to a romantic alternative to everyday living. We never stood a chance.

I personally don't feel second best; it was never a valid comparison between me and the OW. My FWH is damn lucky to have been almost totally forgiven and especially fortunate to have me as a wife. If he dabbles in extramarital fantasies ever again, there will be no reconciliation on the table.


Posts: 1704 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Unagie
Member
Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 9:45 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

What I did was purely selfish and was never about my SO. I adore him and the fact that he gave me another chance was priceless. There was no comparing him to OM because OM would come nowhere near the amazing man my SO was. At the moment of the actual A it was completely about my depression, my issues and my horrible coping mechanisms. See the me me me above it was selfish and never about the amazing man that I shared my life with. He was not and will never be second best.


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

Do not let others be your reference for who you see in the mirror.

Stop allowing people to hurt you, because you don't love you enough to walk away.


Posts: 2700 | Registered: Oct 2012
Rebreather
Member
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 9:52 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

Do you really believe if she was that same selfish person, and she wanted to be with him, she wouldn't be?

We were all second choice. But not the the AP - to our spouses, and their demons.

You are trying to apply logic and rationality to a situation that bears none. It can't be done. The best I can do, is focus on the words of my IC; if he wanted to be with her, he would be. Certainly a wayward suffering from chronic cranial-rectal inversion isn't going to choose anyone but themself.

The bigger choice, is why do you want to stay with her.


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Recovering.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6355 | Registered: Jan 2011
brokensmile322
Member
Member # 35758
Default  Posted: 9:57 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

No I am asking... ( I said the tapping anything comment) and the truth is that this is what I FEEL LIKE because of his actions.

I do not feel special. I feel replaceable, disposable...by any number of women.

And I don't know how to explain it because certainly, I knew my WH husband found other people attractive before. We all do. The difference is that I did not think he would ACT on it, ever.

I do feel second best. I feel that if he was single or not married or we did not have kids he would have tried with her, stayed with her... Doesn't make me feel like first choice. Sorry.

And it is getting in the way.


Me BS 42 Him WS 44
OW Coworker DDay April 7, 2012
EA on a slippery slope...

When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves. ~Viktor Frankl

"When you are happy, you can forgive a great deal."


Posts: 1441 | Registered: Jun 2012
ophelia24
Member
Member # 38438
Default  Posted: 10:00 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

Well, I don't have diamond rings or flash sports car, in fact, I have a bicycle.

I threw myself away.

Might as well have just thrown myself in with the garbage and recycling. Painful to realise how like trash I felt. Always had.

Taken a long time to begin to find me again. It's without end really. In saying that though, the outcome for the BS is still the same, immense pain, hurt and betrayal.

I remember a friend saying when she went to a therapist who said that a truly healthy response from the BS is if they walked in on their WS in bed with someone and their first response was to say "OMG! What are you doing to yourself"?

Starting to understand now what that means. Hard place to get to though, for both WW and BS.

edited for typo

[This message edited by ophelia24 at 10:01 PM, May 26th (Sunday)]


“Love does not begin and end the way we seem to think it does. Love is a battle, love is a war; love is a growing up.”
― James Baldwin

Posts: 255 | Registered: Feb 2013
mchercheur
Member
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 10:05 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

I think about this all the time

I do feel second best. I feel that if ....we did not have kids he would have tried with her, stayed with her... Doesn't make me feel like first choice.

same here


together 25 yrs, married 24 yrs, 4 children;Rebuilding
D Day: 5/10/2011 PA
OW: WH's co-worker,divorced, no children, 20 yrs younger than I-----& she knew he was married, had met our kids, but that did not stop her from trying to destroy our family

Posts: 1353 | Registered: Dec 2012
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 10:09 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

Have your spouses said that they wanted to stay with the AP? Or that they preferred them? What are the actions that make you believe they would have preferred the AP?


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4729 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
Fallen
Member
Member # 4313
Default  Posted: 10:22 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

The A wasn't about how great the OP was. It was about how messed up I was. I know it's hard to fathom, but it's true that my BH wasn't in second place to the OM. He was in second place to my selfishness. There wasn't anything about the OM that was so amazing. He just told me what I wanted to hear when I was in such a broken place that I put that need for validation ahead of everything else.

When I chose R, it was not because I saw my H as second best. It's because I finally figured out that I had to stop hiding, put to rest my fear of abandonment and put him and our marriage first over all of those things.


You can't heal what you won't feel.

"There would be no grand absolution, only forgiveness meted out in these precious sips. It would well up from his heart in spoonfuls, and he would feed it to me. And it would be enough."


Posts: 23478 | Registered: May 2004
brokensmile322
Member
Member # 35758
Default  Posted: 10:41 PM, May 26th (Sunday)


Have your spouses said that they wanted to stay with the AP? Or that they preferred them? What are the actions that make you believe they would have preferred the AP?

No. It was never said. But just the fact that there was an AP was what he did to make me think that, to FEEL that really.

I felt his distance at the time, felt his disapproval, looking back now...his comparison as well.

My IC keeps saying. "But he's with you. He's obviously chosen you." She says this like this is supposed to make me feel better. No it does not make me feel better. If I was first choice, there never would have been an AP.

I am sorry, but this is a tough thing for me right now. I am struggling with it. I am angry.


Me BS 42 Him WS 44
OW Coworker DDay April 7, 2012
EA on a slippery slope...

When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves. ~Viktor Frankl

"When you are happy, you can forgive a great deal."


Posts: 1441 | Registered: Jun 2012
Jospehine85
Member
Member # 35971
Default  Posted: 10:42 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

Thank you knightsbff. You expressed what my WH has struggled to say.

As a BS, it is just difficult to keep it in that perspective: we were 2nd to the WS' egos, but not 2nd to the APs.

Reading your note reiterating this distinction is VERY helpful to me.


Me - BS 40s
WH - 50s
4 Kids
Dday May 2012

Posts: 829 | Registered: Jun 2012
knightsbff
Member
Member # 36853
Default  Posted: 10:58 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

Josephine,

I'm glad I could help.

When I read that to my BH he said, "you still chose him over me at the time."

I understand my BH feeling that way but it isn't accurate.

My IC works with me on accuracy in my thinking and it helps me to process the garbage I have to dig through in the work of healing myself.

My BH is working on his healing. I have faith that he will know that he is/was not second to anyone. I work to show him that daily. That's what I can do to help.

Edited to fix typos

[This message edited by knightsbff at 11:01 PM, May 26th (Sunday)]


FWW 40's
D-day August 27, 2012
3 kids and 2 dogs

Posts: 1409 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Deep South, USA
mamak
Member
Member # 35969
Default  Posted: 11:08 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

My IC keeps saying. "But he's with you. He's obviously chosen you." She says this like this is supposed to make me feel better. No it does not make me feel better. If I was first choice, there never would have been an AP.

Mine would say the same thing, made me furious. Of course this was the same lady that thought I needed IC (along with the MC) and that WH didn't need counseling at all.....


Me - 37, Him - 34
Married - 12 years
Three kiddos (oldest is mine) - 9, 11,13
DDay #1 - 4/21/2012, Discovered 3 mo. EA (texts, phone calls, nude pics, sexting, 1 kiss)
R - 4/24/12. R going well

Posts: 287 | Registered: Jun 2012
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 11:17 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

brokensmile,

I am sorry that you are hurting right now. I understand your hurt, and I know it is so very hard to understand that it is not about the person that our spouse's pick. Because it feels that way. It feels so very personal.

I know when I did what I did, it was all about the destruction of myself, the betrayal of myself, it was all about me. The other person didn't really even factor into it.

It isn't about your H has chosen you now, your right. Because that feels to much like a contest. It should hopefully be about him choosing himself, and wanting to be authentic and honest, and fix his shit. And in the process of doing that he remembers how very much he loves you, and how he lost sight of that in this process of losing himself. I hope that is something that is becoming clear to you while you watch your H and he is remorseful. If it isn't, then he isn't there yet, and I am sorry for that.

I hope that you have some better days that are coming up and that this helps some.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4729 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
jellybean22
New Member
Member # 38732
Default  Posted: 11:24 PM, May 26th (Sunday)

I hate that feeling. I've used the term "consolation prize" with my WH many times.

He wrote our marriage off, wanted to divorce. That's when the A happened. He and she talked about their future together. With her he was happier than he'd been in years. They ended it before I found out and I still feel like he mourns her and he's with me because it didn't work out between them. And I hate feeling that way.

When things are good between us I can push that feeling away. But when we have a setback, it's right there. I feel like he's here because of the kids or out of obligation to try of for our families or simply because he couldn't have her.


Me: 37 BS
Him: 38 WH
M: 11 years, T: 17
2 boys
DDay: 3/11/13
Status: In MC/R, Retrouvaille graduates

I'm not what I ought to be. I'm not what I want to be. I'm not what I hope to be. But thank God, I'm not what I used to be.


Posts: 43 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Limbo
longroadhome
Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 12:09 AM, May 27th (Monday)

jason-

First, I'm so sorry for the pain you're going through. I know that there's little we can say here that will really help. You will come to terms with this in time. Trust yourself first. All we can do is try to explain what we've experienced. It may be similar to what your WS went through, it may not. One thing I am absolutely certain of is this...the A was not about anything you did or didn't do. It wasn't about you, it wasn't directly aimed at you, it was not a statement about who you are. It was all about your WS, their misdirected needs, who they were at that point in their lives and the lousy coping mechanisms they used to deal with that.

Think of it using the old addiction analogy. A substance abuser isn't choosing their addiction over their family. In fact, they need to be told how their addiction is affecting the family and that continued addiction runs the risk of losing their family. In some cases, the addict wakes up and does the work so they don't lose the people they love. In some cases they are too sick to be able to do that. Either way, nobody in the world thinks that the family was lacking in any way. The addict either works hard to recover or they dont.

An A shares many of the same traits as a drug addiction. Its about what the WS is getting from the A. The ap doesn't matter, its about the high. An alcoholic may prefer vodka, but gin will do if it has to. Think of the ap as Boone's Farm and the BS as a fine wine.

The biggest problem is that, whatever it was that the WS needed, they didn't know how to ask their BS for it. Because of some brokeness that's inside of them, they chose to look elsewhere to meet those needs. It was wrong, horrible painful, a shitty thing to do, but it was not about the BS.

Try to remember that if your WS is there, remorseful, trying to R, doing the work, being transparent, learning to communicate openly, then they did make a choice. There was a choice, leave for the ap, or even just to start anew, or stay and fight for the person they truly love. They are choosing to get sober, and they are choosing YOU over everyone else.

Whether that's too little, too late or not is the BS's choice to make.

I'm so sorry your hurting. I hope my rambling at least helped a little.


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
HardenMyHeart
Member
Member # 15902
Default  Posted: 12:38 AM, May 27th (Monday)

The A wasn't about how great the OP was. It was about how messed up I was. I know it's hard to fathom, but it's true that my BH wasn't in second place to the OM. He was in second place to my selfishness. There wasn't anything about the OM that was so amazing. He just told me what I wanted to hear when I was in such a broken place that I put that need for validation ahead of everything else.

When I chose R, it was not because I saw my H as second best. It's because I finally figured out that I had to stop hiding, put to rest my fear of abandonment and put him and our marriage first over all of those things.

My fWW said the same thing.


Me: BH, Her: FWW - Long Term EA/PA
d-day: June 25, 2007
Married 30 years, Reconciled

Posts: 5634 | Registered: Aug 2007
Herkemeyer
Member
Member # 36910
Default  Posted: 3:05 AM, May 27th (Monday)

IDK. I feel that if my WW slept with him, felt guilty, then went back the next day. That's a conscious choice of him over me. Everything in her world was second to him. Because only he could get her to where she wanted to be.


BH-43
(F?)WW-39 (neznayou)
DDay-08/10/12 TT for 18 Months (I think)
Married 19 years

Posts: 123 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Colorado
UnexpectedSong
Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 9:11 AM, May 27th (Monday)

To the BSes - it has nothing to do with you. The WS did not cheat because of you and the WS is not working on R because of you.

Step back from your own story for a moment and look at the broader range of human behavior when they have poor coping mechanisms. Whether the damage inflicted is verbal abuse or physical abuse or alcoholism or workaholism or violation of any of the marriage vows (love, honor, cherish, forsaking all others), the spouse is absolutely not being considered compared to that coping mechanism for that duration. Your (BS) feelings are accurate on the point. But while your feelings are valid, they do not reflect the WS's intentions.

Stopping engagement in the poor coping mechanism takes a lot of energy. Think of how difficult it is to stay on a diet even when you know it's the right thing to do - I'm not being facetious, just pointing out the spectrum of human coping mechanisms and the energy it takes to change.

A lot of Waywards lived a wayward lifestyle before cheating. It takes time to change a lifestyle. But it can happen.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6089 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 9:22 AM, May 27th (Monday)

A lot of Waywards lived a wayward lifestyle before cheating. It takes time to change a lifestyle. But it can happen.


So true. It did not happen overnight.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4729 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
BaxtersBFF
Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 9:37 AM, May 27th (Monday)

A lot of Waywards lived a wayward lifestyle before cheating. It takes time to change a lifestyle. But it can happen.

I would add that making the decision to start this process is one of the scariest decisions a WS can make. It's scary enough that many M have failed because of it. my two cents...


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6097 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
mchercheur
Member
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 9:44 AM, May 27th (Monday)

Thank you to all those WSs who answered this. You have no idea how much it helped me. My WH has a long road ahead of him before he will even be ready to see this. But, I love him & I intend to hang in there until he does.


together 25 yrs, married 24 yrs, 4 children;Rebuilding
D Day: 5/10/2011 PA
OW: WH's co-worker,divorced, no children, 20 yrs younger than I-----& she knew he was married, had met our kids, but that did not stop her from trying to destroy our family

Posts: 1353 | Registered: Dec 2012
GraceisGood
Member
Member # 17686
Default  Posted: 9:58 AM, May 27th (Monday)

Jason, you have gotten some wonderful perspectives to really think about from the FWS in this thread and I hope you are able to take them all in and really process what they are saying.

I see two things here, one is the BS side of things and how we view ourselves and the A, etc and being able to fully step back and to see it all for what it REALLY was, not an easy task nor a quick one. For me the reality of all this still pieces itself together even though I can shake my head in agreement when I read the responses on this thread there are still ah ha moments to be had I am sure, it is a continual awareness IMO.

Second, sometimes this feeling is more than just how the BS views themselves and the A but a "gut" thing. If that is the case (even if it is just a part of this, cause it can all be intertwined and messy ya know) then it does seem your W has some responsibility in this as well.

Your "feeling" right now could be your gut letting you know your W is not or has not done the work she needs to be out of her particular WS mindset. It has been my experience that as a WS shifts their mindset, grows in their awareness, it helps how we "feel" in this area (and I am not just talking feelings here but those deep down gut "feelings" YKWIM), it does not take away the work a BS needs to do, but it puts to rest one aspect that is helpful.

Grace


We have a tendency to think the love offered us is a reflection of our worth and value.But in actuality,it's a reflection of the person that is giving it.We love out of who WE are-not because of who the receiver is.At least in terms of real love.TSMF

Posts: 3434 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: how far the east is from the west
cs2384
Member
Member # 34873
Default  Posted: 10:01 AM, May 27th (Monday)

We had a very rough go after d-day. My husband was abusive before and after the affair. I did feel like I was settling with him UNTIL I decided to change me. All through our our ten year marriage I let him bulky me around. I was too afraid to say anything and thought that I was just picking my battle. This went on for ten years until I allowed myself to be in an extremely volatile state of mind and had an affair. Because the OM was so nice to me he really cared about me and thought I was beautiful

A year ago I would have said I was settling with my BH. But really it was me. I had LET myself be hurt and let him treat me poorly. I started placing boundaries and he respected them. There were some growing pains but I found out that ultimately he wants to see me happy, even after all I had put him through. And he realized that he didn't let me have boundaries and appreciated that I still wanted to be here with him. We're both messed up in our own ways. Once we both took responsibility for our own actions things really turned around.

So, no. My BH is definitely not second best. He's still as handsome as the day I married him ten years ago. He works hard on improving himself. He works hard to take care of our family. We have the same religious and political beliefs. We have two amazing children together. We have the same goals for the future. We are trying to be better individually and together. OM can't even compete. . OM is weak and has tried fishing. I find this pathetic as he's 15 years older than me and has 4 kids of his own. I wouldn't trust him as far as I can spit. What kind of man would treat his family that way? OM is a hypocrite and has major, MAJOR issues. Yeah, my husband isn't perfect. But I'm not perfect either. But my husband has been here despite the hurt I've put him through. Who could ever beat a forgiving man, who is trying?


WW--me 28
BH--32
Married ten years
Two daughters 7 and 8
In recovery

Posts: 86 | Registered: Feb 2012
RightTrack
Member
Member # 36976
Default  Posted: 10:06 AM, May 27th (Monday)

My WH called his AP ten times a day for two years. He texted her while we were sitting next to each other on family vacations. He called her from my son's birthday party. He cashed in all of our air mileage to fly across the country repeatedly for sex week-ends. What is that? That's a relationship like no other. He's never been one iota that excited about me. I hear what you are saying (and thank you for the WS's chiming in) it just flies in the face of the evidence I see in our phone bill.

Posts: 616 | Registered: Sep 2012
UnexpectedSong
Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 10:33 AM, May 27th (Monday)

What is that? That's a relationship like no other

It's actually not much different from any other coping mechanism. He avoids intimacy with you and the family. That is his escape. If he had married her, he would still be escaping with another affair or sone other intimacy-avoidant behavior.

It is somehow more acceptable if it's workaholism (some are always on their laptop, even on the beach, at the game, in the den - physically present but emotionally far away) or alcoholism (always biding time until the next drink, again, physically present but not really engaged) or whatever.

To engage emotionally in the here and now is the sea change.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6089 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
sisoon
Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 11:49 AM, May 27th (Monday)

I add the following to the many insights above: My W & I talk periodically about this. The things my W says in response to open-ended questions coupled with her recognition that her 'relationship' with ow was sick have given me a sense of peace. She's said time and again she prefers me to ow, and she can give specifics.

Ultimately, though, I think this is a question of self-talk and sense of self-worth. IMO the only way to resolve this permanently is to stop the internal messages that destroy self-esteem.

Until I made myself my own first choice, I didn't really hear what my W said.

[This message edited by sisoon at 12:21 PM, May 27th (Monday)]


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 9979 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
jasonguitarboy
Member
Member # 22939
Default  Posted: 3:50 PM, May 27th (Monday)

At this point, for me, its all just so formulaic. The responses are so standard. Almost cliche at times. Some are more in depth and original and it makes me think those are the ones that are really putting some effort in...

I've heard variations of "my BS had nothing to do with my decision to cheat", well your BS had nothing to do with you remaining loyal, that's for sure. If they were your first choice there wouldn't have been another person in the picture. If we were enough, if we were THAT special, THAT important... you wouldn't have strayed. I do agree that the issue lies within the individual who cheats. I was in the same relationship dealing with my own set of problems and I didn't choose another person. It kinda seems like by choosing to have an affair you are blaming your partner for the problems within the relationship.

I think for most of us BSs this experiences makes it to, at least, the top 3 list of the worst thing you've ever been through or can imagine going through. Its really bad. It changes the way we see the world. It changes the way we think. They say you can't change a person. I beg to differ. Right now I don't feel I could EVER be comfortable in ANY romantic relationship, EVER. That, in itself


What doesn't kill us makes us stronger.....right?
"And there's a change, that even with regret, cannot be undone."
"No one plans to take the path that leads us lower..."
Me-BS 35
Her-WS 32 (surviving1979)

Posts: 189 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: nowhere
RightTrack
Member
Member # 36976
Default  Posted: 8:40 PM, May 27th (Monday)

Jason, I'm glad you posted this. This is how I feel and how I have felt all week-end. I've been really depressed instead of out enjoying being with my family. Unexpected Song hit the nail on the head I think with my WH. I'm going to share that post with him. As for the similar way I'm feeling it strikes me that I'm simply not allowing myself to be happy and this is a defense mechanism. Maybe when more time has gone by and the pain of discovery is not so fresh I'll relent.

Posts: 616 | Registered: Sep 2012
HFSSC
Member
Member # 33338
Default  Posted: 8:53 PM, May 27th (Monday)

If we were enough, if we were THAT special, THAT important... you wouldn't have strayed.

But that's the absolute key statement right there. There is NOTHING a spouse can do to be "that" anything that could prevent a WS from cheating. You really don't have that power. I really don't have that power, anymore than I had the power to prevent my mom from killing herself if she had decided to. When you let go of the idea that if you had been more this or more that, the A would never have happened, then you are free to heal.

One person can't "affair proof" a relationship. I believe it takes conscious work on both parts and strong boundaries for both.


Me, 47
Him, 40 (JMSSC)
married 17 years. In R. We are making it. The past does not define who we are today.

Posts: 2705 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: South Carolina
Keepcalm
Member
Member # 36234
Default  Posted: 8:53 PM, May 27th (Monday)

My husband referred to me as the "current damn situation" so yeah I do feel like number 2


BS Me 57
WS Him 55
Married 30 yrs
DDay 1/28/2012
I have no idea what is going on

Posts: 163 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Virginia
UnexpectedSong
Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 11:20 PM, May 27th (Monday)

I was in the same relationship dealing with my own set of problems and I didn't choose another person.

No one is in the same relationship as anyone else. For example, take the husband who gets home and plops in front of the TV. He may be thinking how nice it is to relax after work or he is avoiding talking to his wife. She may be happy that he's relaxing or she resents his not paying attention to her.

It kinda seems like by choosing to have an affair you are blaming your partner for the problems within the relationship.

To me, it seems more like the WS avoids the BS by choosing an affair. It has nothing to do with blame.

well your BS had nothing to do with you remaining loyal, that's for sure.

Hm. I think I will stay off these threads from now on. Apologies for the intrusion.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6089 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
jasonguitarboy
Member
Member # 22939
Default  Posted: 11:41 PM, May 27th (Monday)

I don't take it as an intrusion and I'm sorry for being brash. This is seriously affecting me. Its weighing on me and I need to know how others feel about this stuff. I was a passive chump and set myself up for another round
of this... I take it seriously and this time around my perspective may be eskew. I'm trying to find a light but things seem bleak to me. There are no safe bets anymore and I'm, more and more, believing that having expectations is a fools path. Everywhere I turn anymore people are stabbing others in the back. Maybe its just time to take off my rose colored glasses and see the world for what it is, idk. I always thought you should have faith in people. Now I'm not so sure.


What doesn't kill us makes us stronger.....right?
"And there's a change, that even with regret, cannot be undone."
"No one plans to take the path that leads us lower..."
Me-BS 35
Her-WS 32 (surviving1979)

Posts: 189 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: nowhere
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 6:47 AM, May 28th (Tuesday)

I understand what you're saying. We hear all the time on SI that it's not about the BS. It's about the wayward and their brokenness/poor coping skills/issues/etc.

Ok. But what about your spouse? How does your spouse NOT factor into the equation when one decides to cheat? How could we not be considered? How could we be so...unimportant? How could my WH not think of ME? How does one have sex with someone that is not their spouse,and not consider their husband/wife? I adore my husband. From day one,nearly everything I did revolved around him and our relationship. That's not to say I didn't go out with friends,or have time away from him. I did. I just always considered him first..I would ask if he had plans,or wanted to do something,before I even went out on a dang Friday night. Because he is my husband,and I take him into consideration..always.

Maybe that's what it boils down too? Not being considered? In my situation,WH knew how much his cheating on me would hurt me..he may not have known the depth of that pain,but he darn well knew it would shatter me. yet he did it anyway. I wasn't a factor. I wasn't considered. I didn't matter.

So..jason..maybe it *is* that the affair(s) aren't about the BS. Because,once down that slippery slope,we cease to exist. So,it's not about us..because we didn't matter anymore. We were forgettable.

[This message edited by confused615 at 6:52 AM, May 28th (Tuesday)]


BS(me)41
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,9
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Happily Reconciled.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7297 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
StillGoing
Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 6:54 AM, May 28th (Tuesday)

Tell me how we're NOT second best, second choice... whatever. It seems to me that we BSs are literally second choice. If we were truly that special to you this wouldn't have happened. I bet you wouldn't take any chances that would possibly lead to you losing your diamond rings or your cool sports cars or whatever it is that's special to you. Why is it so easy to throw us to the side and do something like this. In my mind it is because we just aren't that special to you. At least not special enough.

For a long time I was second choice. It never really occurred to me to grapple with that idea, it was just an established fact. The reasons behind those choices to put me behind other people as a priority are important, but they don't change the end result - I was not a priority.

I also think sometimes that maybe she would be happier with the OM, or just not with me. It's not entirely logical because I can deconstruct everything and understand that her happiness during that A was masking a metric fuckton of pain and rage, and what is out there now is authentic, but that doesn't change the issue that it's also hard for me to see those issues, because I'm really seeing them for the first time. It requires a reassessment of everything. In the middle of working all that out it's easy to look back and think damn, she was a lot happier back then. Why the fuck is she bothering to stay now?

My status as second choice in that time wasn't about my flaws, though. That's something you need to detach from that idea IMO. She made those choices and they were about me and involved me at an intimate level, but they were made in the way people make any choices through justifications, she made everything fit in order to get what she wanted. Instead of making it work.

I guess the TL:DR is that yeah I was and always will have been second choice, but that's about her issues. It still hurts and it still sucks but the best anyone can do is to do right, and if it isn't reciprocated then it's not the fault of the one who kept the faith as it were.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7428 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Fallen
Member
Member # 4313
Default  Posted: 7:06 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)

Ok, so here at SI we talk about how all cheaters use the same script. It seems valid to BSes discussing how similar WS excuses/reasons and actions are. If believing that the cheating script is valid to you, then how is it that sharing our similar stories of recovery and reconciliation is invalid?

Jason, you said,

There are no safe bets anymore and I'm, more and more, believing that having expectations is a fools path. Everywhere I turn anymore people are stabbing others in the back. Maybe its just time to take off my rose colored glasses and see the world for what it is, idk. I always thought you should have faith in people. Now I'm not so sure.

For me, this lesson was learned at a young age. I had expectations and those were crushed. So my expectations changed. Those lessons taught me not to trust people because they will ultimately hurt me, and sometimes that pain is horrendous. So I hid. I hid who I was and what I felt and even when I had someone in my life that I could trust, I didn't trust. That's not a good way to live either.

I understand why you have a hard time believing all of the former Waywards posting on this thread. Believe me though, we're not doing it because we want to be criticized or bashed. We do it because part of our own healing is helping others to learn from what we did. Helping YOU to learn from that. Even if you don't believe us.

[This message edited by Fallen at 7:23 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)]


You can't heal what you won't feel.

"There would be no grand absolution, only forgiveness meted out in these precious sips. It would well up from his heart in spoonfuls, and he would feed it to me. And it would be enough."


Posts: 23478 | Registered: May 2004
Topic Posts: 47