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User Topic: d-day
Shockedman
Member
Member # 39376
Default  Posted: 4:26 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

Hi,

Wow. Hard to even fathom that I am here and writing this. I have to say so far I have found great comfort and advice on this site. It is very good and full of insight and insightful people.

The History.
Together 22 years. Married for 14. Overall, a really happy life up till now. Met in college and went through the normal cycle. Fell in love. Lived together for a few years. Bought a house. Got married. No kids. We are in our mid 40s and by all account HAD a beautiful life.

The first 5 years of our marriage were fantastic. Our life was wonderful. We had a nice relationship, friends and family we cared about and nice sex life. Pretty much all the problems in our life were external, but serious. W has serious issues with her mom. Her mom is an alcoholic and there were lots of family feuds, but we really did our best to separate that from our own relationship and life and were for the most part successful. Like all relationship we had our ups and down, all very minor but at some point we did settle in to the comfortable stage as most couples do. W is a very strong, sharp, emotionally in control person. She has almost lawyer like skills to be able to navigate conversations and conflicts. She is great at removing emotion and presenting facts in a clear way. Because of the this she has always taken the lead in these types of siuations.

The beginning of the problem that started the downward spiral started around 2 years ago. W came to me wanting to have a serious talk. She told me she had been working on some personal issues like how to better deal with her mom and the family issues she faces. She said that she is unhappy with the way i handle these times of crisis. I am the counter to my W. I am a gentle peacekeeper. I usually didn't get invloved in her family issues, but she would always get invloved in mine. An example is my brothers wife had an affair a few years ago. My brothers W and my W were/are good friends and my brothers W confided in my W about her affair and expected loyalty. My W was in a tough spot because she was now forced to lie to me and after a month or two couldn't do it anymore and came to me with this info. As a brother I felt compelled to take action. I wanted to tell him, but decided it was better to give his W a chance to make it right. I forced her hand and said if you don't tell him, I will. She did and d-day came for them. All the normal things happened. Massive arguements etc. My brothers W knew my W betrayed her and did not speak to her for 2 years. Eventually my brothers W reconciled, apologzed and made right by our entire family and today, although they have problems are in a realtively good place.

She had only 2 therapy sessions, but she is very connected and was able to gather enough from that to come to some serious conclusions. She said during her sessions she realized that she puts too much pressure on me to support her to the level she thought was correct. She realized that I can't solve her problems and sometimes put really high expectaions on me. She realized that she can only demand as much support as someone is capable of giving and that she lowered her expecations. She said she can accpet the amount of support I can give.

The beginning of the problem that started the downward spiral started around 2 years ago. W came to me wanting to have a serious talk. She told me she had been working on some personal issues like how to better deal with her mom and the family issues she faces. She said that I am often emationally disconnected in times of strife and I really need to step up. I listend contently, but since strife was a small part of our daily life, Maybe 2-5% I easily took her warning and did nothing with it. Fast forward a 2 years. In that time we had 2-3 more similar conversations. Each one similar in deatil, but getting more and more grave. Things were said such as "this is extremly grave" and "I am warning you that when I stop caring we are in trouble". Then came a big problem. Her sister needed surgury and was in panic mode. The week leading to the surgery, my wife spent a lot of time helping and consolding her scared sister. I made minimal effort. I called and emailed her sister once or twice in this time and had one in person conv. On the day of the surgery I went to the hospital, brought some flowers (W suggested the flowers). This is a bit weak. I admnit. Her sister and I are very very close and again, I didn't step up.

Flash forward to Feb 2013. I just returned froma 5 day trip and W and I had the "Final" serious conversation. She said that my lack of "being present" during her sister surgery has changed the way she feels about me. She said she was way more invested in my life than I was in hers and that she feels differently about me. I am not as reliable as she tohuhgt I was. She also said that she does not feel like a wife should feel in a marriage and we have a big crack in our foundation. Of course I was scared. I realized that my W was all but telling me she didn't love me anymore and that if I didn't step up we might be over. The problem is she was already gone in her mind. I said I think we should seek counsel to try to sort our problems out. She suggested that I see a therapist on my own for a while to perhaps work out my own issues and discover why I was "absent" I have worked really hard the past 4 months on myself and on ways to improve our marriage. I read self help books, journaled, attending counseling, read marriage books, took up new hobbies and was feeling really good about my self, but at the same time feeling really bad about our realtionship. It just seemed to be getting worse no matter what i said or did.


During this time my wife withdrew further and further. We stopped having sex. We stopped being intimate in other ways like touching. It was still there, but minimal. Like kissing goodnight or goodbye, but the passion had been lost. We were still good friends. We run a business togother and were co-existing. Heres where it gets ugly. During this whole time (last 4 months) my wife was having an affair. So she says. I now think it was more like 6-7 months, but I guess that is imaterial. Or is it? I was trying so hard to work out all of our issues by myself while she continued to withdrwal. I probed and questioned her at least 5 times in the past 4 months about our problems, trying to get a pulse on where she was at. I tried suggesting books for her to read that I had read about improving our marriage and life and everything I did or said just pushed her away further. My therapist and I decided that when someone withdrawls the only thing you can do is to back off, because each and everytime I tried, she resisted, saying things like "My mind has been so heavy for so long, I just can't deal with this now. I just want to have some fun this summer and I feel like you are smothering me by always wanting to alk about our realtionship. I am just not interested in reading any books. etc"


Everyone out there is thinking. DUH! She isn't interested because she is having an affair. You should have seen it. The days away for "personal time". All the signs were there, but i guess I was in denial. The main reasons I would not even entertain the thought that she was having an affair were twofold. First, because of the experiences we went through with my bother and others we knew, we (no exaggeration) spoke to the fact at least 25 times that if we ever got to a point that we felt we were going to cheat or were so unhappy that we would come to each other. We would decide if we needed to split or what we would do. Second, my W has always had a very strong moral compass. Her main character is integrity and honestly. She is always open and upfront about everything in her life. SHe has to have a deep emotional connection/love to have sex with someone. She has only had a 3 partners in her life (including Op) because she takes it very seriuosly. So my justifactions for not seeing it/confronting it were:

1. She is (was) feircly loyal and always procalimed honesty and integrity
2. We openly disccused the topic of infidentily and agreed to always be honest at any cost if we got in a situation before it got out of control
3. I knew she had to love someone to have sex.
4. I was doing everything in my power to try to reconnect
5. She still was treating me "well" in a general sense. We had dinner together, watched movies, acted like a couple in many many ways.
6. I thought we just hit rough patch in our maariage

Boy was I fooled! On 5/25 d-day came. Op's wife caught him somehow. Ops wife texted my wife. "You're caught. Game over" W immedaiately went itnot panic mode.She was pacing around the house looking like she was about the freak out. I sensed something big going down, but never guessed in a million years thats what it would be. She sat down in front of me, tears ralling down her face and said "I have been seeing someone else" I asked who. She told me. I asked if they had sex. She said No. I said your already hurt me, it is time to be honest, so she fessed up and said yes and they had sex 3 times. I felt I had enough info to go on and immediately left.

In the past 72 hours I have done nothing but talk about this with my closest family and 2 choice friends. I prayed for peace and inner strength. Talked till I am blue in the face. It is funny how a situations like this makes people realize how important they are to one another. My FIL told W if she were a man, he would punch her in her face. He along with most others were furious with her and the bombed she dropped on all our lives, especially mine. They all reached out to me to tell me how much they loved me. She moved out the next day and I stayed at my moms for 2 days. Now I am back in my empty house facing the reality of what is. Have spoken to W a few times since, mostly business and logistical related. Where she is going to go etc. We also discussed a plan of action. She and I are both going to individual counseling and we decided that after we had at least 2 sessions each that we would start marriage counseling as well to see where and if we can move on from here. I am emotionally overwhelmed, but have a suprsing sense of relief that whatever it was is over. But I do think I really still love my wife and could take her back. If I think of her with Op, it doesn't make me crazy with rage and jealousy. I kind of feel like there is something wrong with me for not being more angry. Maybe this stage just hasn't hit yet. Maybe I am still in denial. Does that mean I don't love her like I think I do? Does that mean something else? Anyone who cares to share their thoughts on this, please do

[This message edited by Shockedman at 2:31 PM, May 30th (Thursday)]


Posts: 102 | Registered: May 2013
1Faith
Member
Member # 38975
Helpless  Posted: 4:48 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

Dear Shock

We are sorry you are here but you've found a "good", safe place.

Everyone here has dealt with the hurt and betrayal of infidelity. All in different stages and everyone's journey is unique but please know you are not alone.

Your emotions are too raw right now. Please give yourself time to absorb the reality of what has happened. You are in shock and rightly so.

Don't try to analyze your feelings just yet. Most likely they will be a roller coaster ride. It's completely normal to feel about 100 different emotions within 2 mins. From love to hate, from hopeful to despair, to determination to resignation.

Check out the timeline for healing in the healing library. It helps not to put too much pressure on yourself.

The road ahead is long and it is hard but it can be worth it if you both are truly vested in doing the hard work.

Your W needs to stop blame shifting. Regardless of how much you were "there" or not - it is no excuse to cheat. She made that conscience choice and must own the behavior and consequences. I hope she is showing remorse and is helping you through these critical days.

Now is the time to set your boundaries and stand up for what you want. Look up the 180 - it may be too soon but it sounds as if your W is used to calling the shots and directing how things are. You have a voice and matter too.

Good luck. Keep posting and try and take care of yourself.

Wishing you the best of luck. Keep moving


"I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it." - Maya Angelou

Posts: 1190 | Registered: Apr 2013
1Faith
Member
Member # 38975
Default  Posted: 4:51 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

PS

It all starts with NC with the OP.

That's a deal maker/breaker.

Has she conveyed she's willing to give him up?

Be strong.


"I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it." - Maya Angelou

Posts: 1190 | Registered: Apr 2013
Shockedman
Member
Member # 39376
Default  Posted: 5:02 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

Thanks. I'll check out the 180 for sure. I am not weak in our relationship. I can voice my opinion when needed, I am just very easy going and think maybe we just really started taking each other for granted. I am on that page believe my. I will take some responsibility for our relationship falling away, but refuse to take any for the affair. She has said she has taken him out of the picture completely, but I do plan to demand the NC.

I asked her to move out and not to contact me unless it is work related. I said I will contact her when I am ready. By the time she has completed her 2 sessions and I have completed mine and we have a marriage counceling session set up, it should be over 2 weeks since d-day when I see her again. Not looking forward to that....


Posts: 102 | Registered: May 2013
1Faith
Member
Member # 38975
Default  Posted: 5:19 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

My apologies. I did not mean to imply you were weak at all. Just interpreting your post.

It is good you are being as strong as possible. It is not easy.

Try to take one day at a time. You don't have to make any decisions now. Just know what you are willing to accept and what you are not. That will at least provide you with a foundation that you control and can count on.

Good luck with IC and MC. Make sure there is a good connection - it took me three before I found one that clicked and it was life changing.

We are all rooting for you.


"I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it." - Maya Angelou

Posts: 1190 | Registered: Apr 2013
Shockedman
Member
Member # 39376
Default  Posted: 5:21 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

Where do I find info on the 180?

Posts: 102 | Registered: May 2013
hatefulnow
Member
Member # 35603
Default  Posted: 5:51 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

Sorry u r here taking the trip no body wants to take. No advice but you have Ben heard. Good luck.

Posts: 128 | Registered: May 2012
1Faith
Member
Member # 38975
Default  Posted: 6:06 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

Go back to forums - just found out - I bumped it to the top for you. Good luck


"I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it." - Maya Angelou

Posts: 1190 | Registered: Apr 2013
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 6:29 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

Sorry you have to become part of this club. It is a great group of folks and many have shared similar experiences. We will offer thoughts and advice based on what we have been told, an our own experiences.

I must say that she took control away when she chose to have an A and attempt to shift the blame on you. Now it's your turn to be in control. Seriously sit down and figure out what you want and need. If you want to R and what she will need to do so you can R successfully. In addition I always recomend seeing an attorney. Knowledge is power. Not saying you will D but knowing what your options are and hOw it would play out helps.

Lastly know that she is not the person you married. That strong moral compass is now broken. She will lie to you it has become habit. It takes a bit for the waywards fog to clear and really understand that lies for any reason do damage and are not ok.

Read the healing library and keep posting.

((((and strength ))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8705 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
sailorgirl
Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 7:45 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

Shockedman,

I am sorry this happened to you. It feels like getting hit by a truck.

Your story sounds very similar to mine. My WH is also the child of an alcoholic and fiercely loyal. Also a rational thinker (scientist).

He had the first of a series of talks with me about what was wrong with our marriage/me in September 2011. (Gently) the affair had already started. Now that I know the truth, I can look back and see that he would lecture me on my faults and the "very bad dynamic" in our marriage after every meeting with his AP. When they first slept together in December, his criticisms escalated.

He was trying to justify the affair. He thought of himself as a moral, caring person with integrity. So, how could a good person do this? There had to be something wrong with me. He must have found his true soulmate in OW.

He told me I should go to counseling. I eventually did but not to fix myself. I was the same kind, fun, smart, sexy woman he married. I only needed help dealing with him. He was the broken one!

It turned out after d-day that his A had a lot to do with piss poor boundaries that are common for adult children of alcoholics. Plus a lot of unresolved crap from his FOO. It had nothing to do with me and zip zero nada to do with our marriage. The "serious problems" we had in the marriage were caused by WH's slide into the affair!

I hope this helps you to stop second guessing or blaming yourself. How on earth could you bringing flowers to her sister in the hospital be inadequate? Your WW felt inadequate (because she was being a shitty wife) and she projected that onto you.

Do not drink the WS kool aid. Take good care of yourself. Do some of your favorite activities with friends and family. Take up a new sport or hobby. Keep reading and posting at SI, and you also may want to read about characteristics of children of alcoholics.

This road is long and bumpy. Lots of hills and valleys. Be prepared for a wild ride with every feeling there is coming over you in turn.

It is awesome that you already have a good counselor who knows you. Also, your inner strength is obvious in your post and it will serve you well Best wishes!


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
mysticpenguin
Member
Member # 38839
Default  Posted: 8:14 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

Shocked --

Here is a direct link to the 180: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=232785

Also a tactical primer: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=235051

And "Great Posts for Newbies" -- http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=361740

The reason you are not feeling rage or jealousy is that you are likely still in shock. I personally do not tend to react very emotionally to traumatic events, but was in shock for about ten days following the first discovery.

Please be aware that your wife has been lying to you for probably 6+ months; lying is more natural for her than telling the truth. Also remember that the only reason she confessed at all was because the other man's betrayed wife threatened her. Many, many affairs go "underground" when discovered.

You are doing well to keep your distance. Protect yourself. If you want to reconcile, remember, she needs to feel like this betrayal could cost her your marriage and your love. Also remember she can't see clearly what she stands to lose unless and until she temporarily loses it. Keep your distance. Don't rush into reconciliation. Take your time, and focus on YOU. Your healing, your needs, your life. Do things that you enjoy. Talk to your friends. Start a new hobby, take a class. Keep yourself occupied, hydrated, and fed.


Betrayed

Posts: 306 | Registered: Mar 2013
Shockedman
Member
Member # 39376
Default  Posted: 9:03 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

thanks everyone for your input so far. no going to say i am happy about joining this club, but you all seem helpful. sailorgirl, your post was especially helpful.I will take your advice and start a new hobby and def keep my friends and fam close. the question i have for you all now is about what and how much i want to know? any advice? i set my plan up so we wont have our first MC for about 10 -12 days after d-day. hopefully that is enough time for the fog to lift and i hope to get some answers. but what do i really need to know? what is immaterial? i plan to just listen for the first part. i dont want all her talk to be responses to my questions. i want to hear whats in her heart. I also just sent her the NC info. time to see if she is serious

[This message edited by Shockedman at 9:15 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 102 | Registered: May 2013
Lyonesse
Member
Member # 32943
Default  Posted: 9:35 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

Shockedman, welcome, and sorry you are also dealing with this.

You ask whatever you want to know. Don't feel you have to ask everything in one go, and then never bring it up again. If you attempt R with your wife, you will need to ask the same questions over and over as you process this, and you should both be prepared for that. It's a normal part of healing from the trauma of betrayal.

Most people ask questions to try to put together a picture of what was going on: how long? who with? when and where did they meet? The real biggie, of course, is WHY...but it is unlikely your WW will be able to give you any real answer to that without some serious IC. I think your approach of seeing what she has to say for herself is very smart - her reaction will tell you a lot. I will warn you that the majority of caught waywards do not come clean right away - they try to mete out whatever minimum of damaging (to them) information they can get away with. You will see the term TT (trickle-truth) used a lot for this. My other warning is that many BS have said they wished they had not read all the e-mails, or asked for details of the sex, because they couldn't then bleach those images from their minds when they attempted reconciliation. You may want to start with a basic timeline of the facts, and the lies she told, and decide later how much detail you really want about the actual sex.

Please take good care of yourself in these early days. The shock is protective, but when it wears off, the pain is a real bitch. Good you have found this site early on, and if I may suggest the two most-recommended books: Shirley Glass, Not Just Friends and Linda MacDonald, How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair.

I wish you well.


Me: BS, 40's.

Posts: 1797 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: West Coast
Shockedman
Member
Member # 39376
Default  Posted: 9:32 AM, May 29th (Wednesday)

Hi all,

Need some advice.

1. I am thinking my W is going to start figuring out that I am getting info from somewhere. I can't do this all on my own. Whats to stop her from finding this thread and then being able to know what I am thinking/doing and my reasons. I tried some 180 tactics on her today and was meet with the querstion of "whats going on with you? You are acting like a robot." to which I replied, "I can see how you feel that way."
So I guess its working. What are your thoughts on that? Should I edit the first post and change some details that would tell her I am speaking about us? It would be nearly impossible for her not to know its us. This is my safe place, not hers.

2. I tried the NC and it didn't go well. Sent her the NC info. Her response was " I am not contacting him. SO I am not going to contact him to tell him I am not going to contact him. I'm not going to stir the pot. Im starting therapy.You are still in therapy and will will soon start the process together in MC. That is where my head is"

To which I responded: " Not acceptable. Its time for honesty. At this point it is not your choice. I will allow for the following: do everything I asked, but we won't send the letter."

She replied " I have been honest (I think: Obviously not!)Is says in the email you said that is my choice. I am NOT contacting him and he is not contacting me. I am starting therapy and asking for guidance through all of this"

We then had a brief but heated phone convo that I applied 180 techniques. She basically said that she feels like I am backing her into a corner and it is not right. That she is still trying to comprehend reality."

What do you think of all this? I am not happy, but in some ways I can understand. I think i am way ahead of her at this point and she is still in the fog. I said that to her and she denies being in the fog, but lets face it, she is and her actions are speaking it. She is still blame shifting, trying to associate our current issue with past issues, and justifying. Saying things like "I won't take full responsibility for the problems in our marriage" and "You keep saying our problems weren't as big as they were. If I thought they were big, then we weren't on the same page."
Obviously she has some unresolved issues about our past and that is Ok. We can work that out in MC, but it is clear to me she is still in the fog. Any insights?

PS. Staying strong. Went for a run this morning and actually got a decent nights sleep since d-day.

[This message edited by Shockedman at 11:50 AM, May 29th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 102 | Registered: May 2013
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 12:06 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)

I am going to offer some advice, it may be difficult to hear, and may make you hurt or angry when you hear it. But know that this comes from a place of been there done that, please don't let your WS do the same stuff we did. It's a lot to process.

A few thoughts. No you do not share this place with her. This is your sanctuary right not. If she asks tell her you have been doing a lot of reading.

Next. Don't plan for a full out confession at the first MC. It isn't going to happen. The first session is a whole lot of getting to know you, your relationship, and your postitions on where you think you are at. I would go in being prepared to state what you need to attempt to R from this.

Yes she is very foggy, and I highly doubt that she is not in communication with him. Have you asked her to proove that? A's don't end because they get caught. A's end when one or both AP's feel that they are going to loose their way of life. They just get sneakier about how it's carried out. I would ask her again to send a NC letter/note/email whatever, when she refuses ask to see her phone, and get the passwords to ALL of her Emails if she refuses she most likely still communicating with her AP.
Anger and a sense of indignation is a huge red flag that they are lying, and ongoing as well. I can remember having the "I'm not going to babysat the rest of my life convo".

There is a huge difference between being sorry they were caught, and being sorry for what they did. You will know when she transitions into the second part, she will no longer blame you or be angry with you for not trusting.

You are really handling things well so far. Continue to take care of you.

((((and strength))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8705 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
1Faith
Member
Member # 38975
Default  Posted: 12:17 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)

Shocked

The NC didn't go well but it sounds as if it did. She noticed you not buying in to the nonsense. That is positive.

You can just tell her you have been reading up on how to handle what you've been dealt. You are trying to wrap YOUR head around the ugly reality that she's brought to your marriage.

I would ask the MC about how they feel about your desire to have proof of NC. I am sure the MC will side with you that you need proof it is over. This is not an unreasonable request.

If she doesn't want to send an email - then a phone call or text.

"It's over. Never should have happened. I am working on my marriage with my husband. Please do not contact me again."

She is still in the fog and most likely trying to justify her behavior that "things were so wrong" - well even if they were the A certainly didn't make them better.

Good for you for going running and being strong. You are doing great.

Keep reading, stay strong and know there are brighter days on the horizon one way or another.

Keep moving.


"I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it." - Maya Angelou

Posts: 1190 | Registered: Apr 2013
Shockedman
Member
Member # 39376
Default  Posted: 12:29 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)

Thanks for your responses. I think I agree and will wait to MC to address the NC. She just had her first session of IC today. I have no intention of sharing this site with her, but it wasn't hard for me to find with a google search, so whats to keep her from finding it and then finding this thread? She would then have a direct line into my thoughts. Not cool. I think I will edit the first thread and alter the facts a bit. Hopefully if she stumbled on to this thread and started reading, the initial facts wouldn't connect and she would move on.....

Posts: 102 | Registered: May 2013
wonderingbull
Member
Member # 14833
Default  Posted: 1:03 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)

OK... First off... The 180 is for you... It's for you to detach and center your thoughts on you... It's not to get a reaction from her although that may be a result.... Use the 180 to protect and heal yourself...

Right now, anything you say to her about her will be taken as an attack... Liars and cheaters are always trying to gain some leverage or advantage on the situation... Don't engage...

The big thing is that you need to realize that you will survive this thing we call infidelity... With or without her, you will survive...

You see my man... Your WW is and has been detached from you emotionally for quite some time... You were the backup plan to her.... She was using your loyalty against you...

Since both of them were married I doubt the OM was interested in tossing his BW to the curb... He just wanted some easy pussy on the side and would say whatever it took to keep it that way...

From the years I've been here I've often seen where one of the affair partners was a lot more invested in the A than the other... I'll bet your WW is that one.... That's going to make her detox from him painful all the way around...

Best thing you can do right now it take care of yourself.... I had to literally keep saying to myself... "Go fuck the dude! That's what you want, I deserve better than being treated like trash."

After all, you can't change a damn thing about her thoughts or actions... Sure, you can try to control her thoughts or actions but that's a loosing sum game that's not worth playing...

The "old" marriage is dead... The track's reset and there are deamons around every corner... Trust is gone and that loving feeling is more of a yearning for what you "thought" you had...

Hang on tight... This is a bumpy ride but you'll make it one way or another...

D Don't
E Even
T Think
A About
C Changing
H Her

I know you miss who and what your WW was... Well, this shines a whole new light on it...

Don't beg and don't plead... Even if you're feeling weak... Fake strong... Be the Alpha male... It's your strength that draws people to you... Not the whinings of a beat down and defeated man...

You have to let go of the outcome right now... Tough to do, Lordy do I know that... See an attorney like yesterday... Knowledge is power and you need all the knowledge you can get right now...

Until you see her blubbering, crying with snot, tears and mascara running down her face begging you to take her back... She's a stranger to you... She can't be trusted... She's dangerous to your health and well being... She is your worst enemy because she attacks from the back when you trusted her to have your back...

WB


The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time...

James Taylor


Posts: 5982 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: A better place
Getting to Happy
Member
Member # 35200
Default  Posted: 1:06 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)

Hey Shockedman, I am so sorry that you had to find us.

I am happy for you that you have a great sense of self and self respect. Kudos Sir!

But I noticed that you said that you were going to edit your postings.

I think a MOD will come around soon. I don't think you can edit out too much info.

I could be wrong but I think it is against the rules here on SI.

You can ask for a MOD on a new thread and get the real skinny from them.

Just sayin'

Take care and stay strong!


WS him
BS me DD's 26, 25' DS 23
dd1 1-1-10, dd2 Mothers Day 2011, dd3 3-12-12 Hawaii trip with ho-worker...

Never forget what is worth remembering or remember what is best forgotten.
Unknown


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: La La Land
idealist
Member
Member # 9462
Default  Posted: 1:09 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)

Hi shocked,
My opinion is that it is too important that you have support to let the idea that your W might read this thread dissuade you from posting. Is there something to the "shockedman" that would tip her off?

The next paragraph is an observation that may or may not be accurate. I offer it only as something to consider.

You wrote:

I kind of feel like there is something wrong with me for not being more angry

Is it possible that this is part of a defense mechanism that protects you from pain? And that you have been "emotionally numbing" yourself when you feel vulnerable since you were a kid? Are there other situations when you have felt detached from your emotions?

I know it was something I did and I am stil struggling with the tendency to distance myself lest I get hurt (again).


Everything can be taken from a man or a woman but one thing: the last of human freedoms to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way.

Posts: 1732 | Registered: Jan 2006 | From: Southern California
jtom
Member
Member # 35322
Default  Posted: 2:01 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)

Shockedman,I feel for you man. All good advice here. But you need to get with the om wife an find out all she knows. Knowledge is power. Dont worry about upsetting your wife when you do. An brace yourself,what you will learn will upset you, but again you do need to find out as much as you can about the affair. Been there.


ME(BH)HER(WW)LTA AT WORK.DISCOVERED AUGUST 2010. TWO SONS.DIVORCED HER. "THE BEST PREDICTER OF FUTURE BEHAVIOR IS PAST BEHAVIOR"

Posts: 94 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: somewhere in texas
Shockedman
Member
Member # 39376
Target  Posted: 3:18 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)

Jtom: not sure I agree. From what I know, OP wife is crazy and it probably is a bad idea to contact her as it just might make matters worse.

Getting to Happy: I kept it simple. Just changed a few minor details like the length of time we have been married and removed one sentence about our jobs. My username will not tip her off.

Wondering Bull: I agree that the 180 is for me and I am using it as such. What meant was the simple actions I performed seemed to immediately get her attention. I am a calm, gentle man and she was not expecting me to be so protective of myself. I pulled the knife out, but believe me, I am watching my back. I realize WW has been detached for sometime so maybe that is why ,subconsciously and consciously, I feel a sense of relief. Like this facade is over. Where we go from here is yet to be determined. I do appreciate your sincere thoughts and will take them to heart.

Idealist: Not sure if that's it or I am just in shock. Perhaps part of me knows something serious was going on so subconsciously I was preparing for it and when it happened I was "slightly" prepared. Honestly I think that my time in therapy and the fact that I have been working on myself for the past 4 months has made me strong. I am sort of like "If she doesn't want me anymore, F her. I am an awesome person and will carry on no matter what" Truthfully, I KNOW I am not the cause of this. I had a part in our disconnection, but I truly think she has a lot of repressed issues that we are going to have to deal with. Fun. Fun. My situation is also compounded as we are also business partners and so I still have to communicate with her during this time.

[This message edited by Shockedman at 3:26 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 102 | Registered: May 2013
Shockedman
Member
Member # 39376
Default  Posted: 3:24 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)

I have read differing opinions about the amount I want to know. Whats your opinion?

Knowing too much hurts and is hard to get mental images out of your mind.
Not knowing enough and you feel like you are missing a piece of the puzzle.

For example I want to know all basic facts. Timeline of when it started till when it ended. How many times they had sex. She has told me 3. So I guess I should double it and say 6 since she is a liar. Same with the timeline. She says 4 Months. I am going with 7-8. We have only know this person for 9 months. I consider the start of the affair the first time she saw him and lied about it or omitted telling me. This is when her "intention" started. I am guessing that they have been physical for 4 months....

This sucks ass. Cheaters are shitty. It is so weird to love and hate someone at the same time.


Posts: 102 | Registered: May 2013
Themusicdied
Member
Member # 29502
Default  Posted: 4:08 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)

Shockedman

So sorry you find yourself amongst this group you never thought you'd be a part of.....

I know you're reeling right now and not sure which way to turn next, but you might re-think your position on not talking to the OP BW. Common thought on this site is that the more light that is shining on the A, the better the chance of it ending. Knowing that you are both keeping a watchful eye may give you some comfort.

Why do you think that the other BS is crazy? Because your WW told you? She is NOT a good source of truth right now.

Regardless of what you decide to do, you will be okay once you get through this. All it takes is time......


BW 53
FWH 54
Married 27 years
DD#1 Oct 2009 PA
DD# 2 Sept 2010 EA continued with same OW
R begins again
Update 7/2012 R going well but
I'll never forget the day the music died

Posts: 107 | Registered: Sep 2010
doctor49
Member
Member # 15847
Default  Posted: 4:27 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)

Different people need to know different things. Some need all the information, others little.

The right answer is that you need to know what you need to know. As you've outlined.


Posts: 243 | Registered: Aug 2007
doctor49
Member
Member # 15847
Default  Posted: 9:18 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)

[This message edited by doctor49 at 9:19 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 243 | Registered: Aug 2007
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 9:49 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)

When you two decided to get two MC sessions was that with some goal in mind? Is she looking for help in ending the marriage or is she honestly looking for ways to save the marriage?

I think that very often mid-life crisis like your WW seems to be having are based on people not realizing what they have and wanting something that they think they need. Once faced with the reality of what they are getting… well… things tend to clear up fast.

It’s a bit like the joke about the man that found the genie and got one wish: He said “well – Ive been married to the same woman for 30 years and we are both approaching the age of 60. I wish I had a wife that was 30 years younger than I”. So of course the genie made the man 90 years old…

I would seriously consider giving your wife (well, at least offering it…) what she is asking for.
She has told you over the years that you are not meeting her expectations. She has told you she isn’t happy with you. She has refused you sex. She has refused to be part of a marriage. She has shown she seeks fulfillment elsewhere. [IMHO all these “symptoms” have nothing to do with you,

So tell her:
You care too much for her to constrain her. If she is so uncontent with you then you won’t stand in the way of her leaving. You aren’t happy with it but it beats feeling like you are her warden and DEFINITELY beats sharing her.
That you can accept that there might be things you do that could contribute to her discontent. BUT those things will NEVER justify her decision to have an affair. The affair is totally 100% her bad.
If she wants to work on the marriage then she has to tell you so in a clear and concise way. You won’t force her. She doesn’t have any excuse or reason to remain, nor excuse or reason to prevent her leaving. It’s totally her call.
Remove each and every excuse. Leave her standing there with no other reason for being in the marriage other than she WANTS TO.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5565 | Registered: Sep 2005
Shockedman
Member
Member # 39376
Default  Posted: 5:09 AM, May 30th (Thursday)

Bigger: Your statement is awesome, but I already asked her to leave and she moved in with her dad temporarily. Only been 5 days since d-day.

Posts: 102 | Registered: May 2013
mchercheur
Member
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 6:19 AM, May 30th (Thursday)

(((Shocked)))
So sorry you had to find yourself here with the rest of us BSs. I wish I had found this site so soon after Dday like you did, but didn't find it until a year & a half after Dday---it has helped me so much, however, I would have done things differently from the beginning if I had been on here.

Anger and a sense of indignation is a huge red flag that they are lying, and ongoing as well.

Agree with this^^^^^. Your WW's mission in life now should be to prove to you that you can trust her again.
It's not about her anymore, its about healing your pain.
If she doesn't get to this place, you don't want to R with her.

Agree with jtom. You need to talk to OM's BW.
"From what I know, OP wife is crazy"
How do you know this? From your WW? You can't believe a word she says right now.

Also, I am sorry to say this, but I feel sure, after reading your post, that there is much much more to your WW's story than she is admitting to right now. THEY ALL MINIMIZE WHEN THEY GET CAUGHT.

[This message edited by mchercheur at 6:28 AM, May 30th (Thursday)]


together 25 yrs, married 24 yrs, 4 children;Rebuilding
D Day: 5/10/2011 PA
OW: WH's co-worker,divorced, no children, 20 yrs younger than I-----& she knew he was married, had met our kids, but that did not stop her from trying to destroy our family

Posts: 1396 | Registered: Dec 2012
Shockedman
Member
Member # 39376
Default  Posted: 7:12 AM, May 30th (Thursday)

mchercheur: Thanks for your insight. I agree and have been gathering proof. I KNOW the affair went on for 7 months not 4. Just found out from a reliable source. I usually like to double what liars and cheaters say so i think she had sex with him 6-10 times, not 3. I talked to reliable source and she spilled some beans. She said my W said it was love at first site and that they had an instant connection. She said that my W said she is in love with him and that they have a DEEP emotional connection and I think they were planning something big. My source said that she asked if they were planning for the future together and she said yes. My guess at this point is that they were planning to both leave their spouses and get together but they didn't have all their ducks in a row yet and since they got caught they are now not sure where to go from here. I am not sure if my W is going to IC to prepare herself to tell me its over in MC. I think it may be time to end it.

Thoughts? This is SO much bigger than I imaged or ever dreamed. I am planning on talking to OP's W ASAP. I just don't want to get hurt AGAIN and really want to protect myself. I need your guidance...........

[This message edited by Shockedman at 7:16 AM, May 30th (Thursday)]


Posts: 102 | Registered: May 2013
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 9:04 AM, May 30th (Thursday)

Shocked,
you can't move forward, or heal from this mess until you get the truth. You don't need to know the gory details, but at least need to know the timeline. You also need to know how the other BS busted them, and what her take on this is. Crazy or not, she is reeling now too.

Like I said before, if you want to attempt R, be ready to lay out your demands for it, with consequences of not complying. You are doing quite well.

You do realize since she is not in your home, and not having to be accountable that she is at the very least still communicating with the OM. She can tell you she's not, but hey liars lie. If you and the her AP's wife are both wanting to R then you two need to work together to out this crap, and bring it to an abrupt halt.

((((and strength ))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8705 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
sailorgirl
Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 10:54 AM, May 30th (Thursday)

Shocked,

I'm so sorry--it sounds like your W's fog was beyond deep.

Remember that she had to tell herself that it was "love" and that she and OM had this instant magical bond. She had to deny the facts: It was just garden variety infatuation. She trashed her marriage to a faithful, stable, honest man for a meaningless escape. This was not a romantic love story--it was adultery.

I don't know whether the fog is lifting for her. People who were brought up in homes with a lot of denial, secrets and enabling of unhealthy behavior are often very good at lying to themselves.

It will take time to determine whether your W can grow up and stop excusing her giant weaknesses. I would suggest a consistent 180 and no contact with W outside of MC to protect yourself.

Talking to OM's BW is a good idea. The line about the BS being crazy is straight from the WS handbook. They all say that. You could get BW's take on how long this has been going on, and whether your W and her H are still in contact.

As all us BS's know, this pain sucks so bad. Remember that you are still an awesome guy with integrity and a bright future, whether your W gets her head out of her ass or not!


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
toomanyregrets
Member
Member # 37740
Default  Posted: 12:07 PM, May 30th (Thursday)

You should contact a lawyer ASAP.
It sounds like your WW is planning on leaving.
You don't want to be blindsided by her again.


BH - 64
fWW - 60

"Affairs are not mistakes, they are a series of deliberate choices." - CrappyLife


Posts: 484 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Upstate NY
Shockedman
Member
Member # 39376
Default  Posted: 12:16 PM, May 30th (Thursday)

Hi
Trying to stay well so I saw my PCP today. He was a great source on knowledge and info and kind of slapped me back to reality a bit. I plan at this point to do nothing. Its not that I don't care, but nothing really matters at this point. Its only day 5 and I can't solve all the problems in a week. I see that now. Talking to the OP W I think will just make things worse and cause more pain. I know the true timeline. I confronted, she admitted. 7 months. Who cares? If it was 3 months and sex twice. The important details here are she had an affair that lasted 7 months and had sex 10+ times. She just admitted the number too. She also admitted that they made plans for their future to "try" to be together but hadn't set a def timeline and that she is in love with him.

To be honest I don't hold out much hope. My W is just an emotional mess. Do I believe she is truly in love with him? Possibly. It could also be the fog talking and the disillusionment is still a huge part. I think it will take her a few weeks or months to even get out of this stage. She seems to be in DEEP. But in all of this, maybe she really is in love with him. Is that a real option? On paper it is ridiculous. Together for 17 years (at least 14 or 15 happily) or 7 months? I still want to hold out hope that she will recognize that it is facade. I think it will hit her like a brick wall. I just don't know if I can wait out the storm. In some respects I feel I have to at least try, but years of therapy and digging up all the demons of her past might not be worth it.


Posts: 102 | Registered: May 2013
k9lover1
Member
Member # 8531
Default  Posted: 12:22 PM, May 30th (Thursday)

If you do tell the OM's spouse, be prepared for him to throw your wife under the bus, at which point she will come blubbering back and claim to have come to her senses.

But, do not rugsweep. If this happens and you do reconcile, be sure to solve what lead to all of this.


D-Day was 10/9/05
He promised NC. He lied. After 4 chances, I kicked him out 1/05/06.
Since then I have survived cancer surgery and a heart attack.
Now he's sorry, but it's too late.

Posts: 8109 | Registered: Oct 2005 | From: Wisconsin
Shockedman
Member
Member # 39376
Default  Posted: 1:08 PM, May 30th (Thursday)

Sailor girl: You are so right she is really in DEEP. Not sure if we have a chance. She has a lot of emotional damage to work through and I don't know that she can get there in any acceptable timeline. But what is an acceptable timeline? I do love her but I also love myself and she deeply hurt me. So it might take 2 years of ridiculous therapy and work just to have a "normal" relationship again and I get to not have sex for 2 and half years? Sounds promising

Still having a hard time with calling the OP BS because I feel like all it will do it cause problems. I know the true timeline and I know the most significant details.
My W is definitely still hiding alot. She changed her password on her cellphone account and I asked her about it. She said "I do still have the right to know my own passwords and have privacy" She also said "You really don't want to see the call or email logs. It will just hurt you" I already checked them and her cellphone carrier doesn't provide. I don't want to know all their intimate details anyway.

She is so bitter and delusional. I know it is only day 5, but I am not sure how long I can take it. I want to see where we are at at 2 weeks and hope that I see a ray of light. Don't forget she has projected on and alienated me for the past 7 months as well. I am a patient an loyal man, but.....

[This message edited by Shockedman at 1:18 PM, May 30th (Thursday)]


Posts: 102 | Registered: May 2013
k94ever
Member
Member # 11176
Default  Posted: 4:49 PM, May 30th (Thursday)

If she wants to work on the marriage she does not have the right to privacy.

End of discussion.

k9

[This message edited by k94ever at 4:49 PM, May 30th (Thursday)]


BS: 56
WS: 53
Betrayed: 23 years
Affairs: 14 (2 lasted 3 months. Rest were ONS)
WS died: 16 May 2011
Do not stay in your hurt forever. Choose to move out of it.

Posts: 6580 | Registered: Jul 2006 | From: Wisconsin
ForwardMotion
Member
Member # 32608
Default  Posted: 4:56 PM, May 30th (Thursday)

I plan at this point to do nothing.

Shocked - I am very sorry that you have a reason to be here. There is no certainly to need to rush to decision. But I agree with toomanyregrets, contact a lawyer ASAP. You don't have to do anything, but you need to know your rights and options.

Peace brother.


me - BH

'It's not the end of everything,
It's just end of everything you know.'


Posts: 409 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: Tejas
sailorgirl
Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 5:32 PM, May 30th (Thursday)

But in all of this, maybe she really is in love with him. Is that a real option? On paper it is ridiculous. Together for 17 years (at least 14 or 15 happily) or 7 months?

The feelings of being "in love" are shallow and fickle. Actively loving, helping, challenging, supporting, working and playing with a spouse for almost two decades--that's real love.

And don't forget that the one thing your wife knew about OM from the start was his utter lack of respect for anyone's marriage vows. He's a liar, a cheater, and a sneaky coward.

So, what does it say about your wife that she thinks she has a deep emotional bond with this train wreck of a man? She is broken. You're right that she needs:

years of therapy and digging up all the demons of her past

Time will tell whether she's even willing to face herself, let alone improve herself. If she is, more time will help you decide whether it's worth sticking around to be a part of her becoming a whole, healthy person.

So it might take 2 years of ridiculous therapy and work just to have a "normal" relationship again and I get to not have sex for 2 and half years? Sounds promising

Everyone is different, but hypothetically, when her thinking is no longer disordered, and she's totally remorseful, I don't see why you couldn't be HBing while she figures out her damage and fixes it.

For day five, you are kicking ass! You sound insightful and realistic, with a touch of hope. Stay wary--she has only confirmed what you already know, and you're right to suspect more crap to come. Keep up the running and make plans with friends/family. You made it through seven months of hell and you'll be even stronger now that you're surviving the truth about your marriage.


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
mchercheur
Member
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 6:36 PM, May 30th (Thursday)

Shockedman,
My W is definitely still hiding alot. She changed her password on her cellphone account and I asked her about it.She said "I do still have the right to know my own passwords and have privacy"

Translation: She is still in the A.

I confronted, she admitted.

I am POSITIVE, from personal experience
( & it is amazing how similar our experiences are on this board)
that you do not know the whole story yet.
She is only admitting to what you have found out so far.

The only way to end the A, is for you & OMBW to team up & out them.
An A does not usually end with the drop of a hat.
The only hope for R is full disclosure from her & complete transparency, plus NC. She needs to write a NC letter & show it to you, & you mail it together.
There is always hope of creating a new, better marriage with WW.

hypothetically, when her thinking is no longer disordered, and she's totally remorseful, I don't see why you couldn't be HBing while she figures out her damage and fixes it.

Yes, this has happened to a lot of us too.

Shocked:
1. Contact OMBW
2. See a lawyer
3. Make a list of your requirements for R
4. Have her send a NC letter, & prove to you that there is no further contact
5. Complete transparency
6. Get tested for STDs

Good luck Shocked. Have been in your shoes. Sending you strength


together 25 yrs, married 24 yrs, 4 children;Rebuilding
D Day: 5/10/2011 PA
OW: WH's co-worker,divorced, no children, 20 yrs younger than I-----& she knew he was married, had met our kids, but that did not stop her from trying to destroy our family

Posts: 1396 | Registered: Dec 2012
Getting to Happy
Member
Member # 35200
Default  Posted: 9:56 PM, May 30th (Thursday)

Still having a hard time with calling the OP BS because I feel like all it will do it cause problems. I know the true timeline and I know the most significant details.

Hey Shockedman, I know that you are shocked and numb. Boy do I know what that is like!!

But I would like to gently ask you to reconsider outing the betrayal of your WW and POSAP to his BS.

You said that you had enough info. But having two sets of eyes on them will put a chill on the addicting fantasy of their nasty trysts. This will help you.

And wouldn't you have liked to have known what was going on in you own life?

Don't worry about starting trouble ...those two already did that in spades!

Keep ot simple, offer any evidence that you may have. And please don't tell your WW what your going to do. She is alien pod person right now...she will warn her POSAP and they will make you out to be a psycho madman.

Letting the BS know is the decent and right thing to do. Please consider it.

Stay strong my friend.


WS him
BS me DD's 26, 25' DS 23
dd1 1-1-10, dd2 Mothers Day 2011, dd3 3-12-12 Hawaii trip with ho-worker...

Never forget what is worth remembering or remember what is best forgotten.
Unknown


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: La La Land
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 4:59 AM, May 31st (Friday)

Shocked,

In your first post you talk about upcoming MC appointments.
What’s your goal with those appointments? Are you and your wife going there with the same intention?

It’s extremely common behavior in many confrontational situations to do something that forces the other party to make and take the “difficult” decisions. Your wife has for some period of time been talking about how she finds you lacking and not meeting her needs.
It’s a basic assumption here on SI that a WS decision to have an affair is ALWAYS based on something being lacking in the WS – NOT the BS. You could be the worst husband imaginable but that would never justify your WW decision to have an affair. Your wife could demand change, more attention, divorce or even an open marriage. You could respond to those demands and she then respond to your response… In a marriage people always end up having to discuss how they want things and what compromises they can and cannot accept. If your wife brought relevant issues to the table she could accept your reactions, demand change or divorce. Her decision to have her needs met by another man is about as logical as murdering someone because he has bad breath.

IF your wife is honest in her beliefs. IF it’s true that she and OM had a “special” connection. IF it’s true that OM really intended on leaving his wife (if I had a dime every time I heard that one…) then your WW is using MC as a tool to get out of the marriage.
Only since she wasn’t honest enough to tell you she wanted a divorce before she had the affair then chances are she won’t tell you she wants out if the MC doesn’t force the issue.

So… I encourage you to re-read my first post. Force the issue NOW. Remove each and every excuse your wife might make to remain in the marriage UNTILL she only has the key one left: She’s in the marriage because she WANTS to.

Worst case: You get the news sooner that this is an exit affair and she really wants out.
Best case: She comes to MC with true intent on fixing things.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5565 | Registered: Sep 2005
Shockedman
Member
Member # 39376
Default  Posted: 6:19 AM, May 31st (Friday)

Thanks guys. Trying my best. My PCP gave me some ambien, so at least I finally had a decent night sleep last night. But as I sit here typing, my whole body is tense. I think it is time for a run.

Found out some more news that helps us confirm some thoughts. Found out that the OP is a n ex-drug addict. He is now clean (from what we know). My W comes from a family of alcohol and drug abuse. In some ways I wonder if they are both so mentally F'ed up that that is a big part of their bond? Maybe they are looking to fix each other? Either way it is ridiculous and unacceptable.

I sent an email last night telling W that I except the fact that she is in love with another man (real or perceived) and not me, so it doesn't make sense for us to own assets and run a business together. I said,

"You were not holding onto our life, nor should you if you don’t feel like it. It has changed forever. You were making plans for your future, so now I am setting up a plan for my future. Its delusional to think we can own this house and business together in the future after what has happened in our relationship. This does not mean we have no hope for a future, but our future does not include our current home or business. That is the past. We all need to realize that the future is going to be a lot different no matter what the outcome. To prepare myself for the future I put together a plan of action:

1. I am meeting with an attorney next week to discuss our options in regards to our assets and to understand my rights and options.

2. I will be setting up an appointment next week to have our business valued. This will give us a clear picture of what our options are moving forward. I believe our options are the following:
- We can sell the business, it we can find an interested party.
- One partner could buy the other one out.
- We could dissolve it.

3. I will have a real estate agent give us an idea of our homes worth and market potential. I do not want to stay in this house. You also have the option to stay and buy me out."

This is also another statement I added, but now wonder if I should have left it so open ended.

"I still plan to continue on with marriage counseling if you want to and when you want to. I won’t press you on this, but my future is in my hands. When I pressed you for some reassurance, you couldn't give me any. Fair enough. But my life is too valuable to just leave in limbo until you decide to make a decision. I am making my own and that is why I put this plan together to make sure I am prepared."

Thoughts? Maybe I should at least set a date in my mind? 1 month from now and she would have had at least 5 IC sessions. I think that sounds like enough. At lest for me, but she is F'ed. But how long do I wait to start MC? I don't want to drag this out longer than needed. I fear that I will finally have my life going in the right direction and be content in my plan and MAYBE she will snap out of her delusion and recognize her reality and want to try with me. Then I will be very conflicted. At this point, I have to say, she is kind of making it easy for me. When your wife tells you she is in love with another man and not you, it makes decisions easier to make.

[This message edited by Shockedman at 6:25 AM, May 31st (Friday)]


Posts: 102 | Registered: May 2013
crisp
Member
Member # 34236
Default  Posted: 7:00 AM, May 31st (Friday)

While there is some emotional baggage in your email, on the whole, it is an excellent business negotiation communication. Good job in starting the job of getting on with your life. The business plan you have outlined in the email will enable you to move on and heal.


Endeavor to persevere. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csEzTwKemwY

Posts: 410 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: NE US
sailorgirl
Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 7:36 AM, May 31st (Friday)

As BS's we are of course upset in situations where the AP's BS is still in the dark. I think some posters didn't realize that in Shockedman's case, the OM's BW discovered the affair and outed it. So, she knows.


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
sailorgirl
Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 8:04 AM, May 31st (Friday)

Shocked,

In my case, OW and WH appeared to have a parallel FOOs. They are both adult children of alcoholics whose siblings struggle with drug abuse and mental illness.

OW told WH that I could never understand him like she did because I came from a loving, functional FOO. She claimed that she could take much better care of him than I could and that they had this "unbelievable connection" and other ridiculous crap.

But, she proceed to be totally selfish in the A. Now, WH remembers how she demanded attention and sex even when he had serious deadlines at work,, did not understand or care that he gets cluster headaches, and gave him guilt trips from the start. All her long emails were about her and her needs, her problems, her feelings. She didn't give a shit about WH's FOO or career or friends or children.

All the parallel FOO's mean is that these two are broken in similar ways, and good at deluding themselves together. WH is beyond grateful now that he married an emotionally healthy person, and that I was strong enough to stay. He feels like the A showed him how miserable and meaningless his life would have been if he had married someone like OW. His A was long, though, and OW showed her true colors early on. WH was suicidal by the end.

You're very smart to call in the experts: law, business, real estate. Be prepared in case your W's fog persists, her IC is an enabler, OM is good at hiding his lack of character, and/or W is too proud to admit that her fantasy is a facade.

Glad you are sleeping!


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
Shockedman
Member
Member # 39376
Default  Posted: 10:03 AM, May 31st (Friday)

Sailorgirl. I am really happy you are here. Your insight has been great. Having someone that shares the same story has helped a lot. My wife, of course, freaked out about the letter. Although their was some emotional baggage involved (of course Im hurting), I think it makes complete sense and is logical and rational.

Of course W is thinking I am being vindictive and setting up a divorce plan. But as I expressed, I am not going to be delusional and pretend that our life will ever be the same. IF there is any chance for us to heal and move on together, it won't be in our current home and our current business. Running a business with someone is very difficult as it is and to have that added pressure makes no sense. She claims that "Many exes do it. They run businesses together" Of course I laughed at that. Maybe spouses that split amicably and it was both of their decisions. Not exes who suffered through betrayal and an affair. She is now in panic mode. Saying that I have no right to take way her home and her business and that obviously all I care about is money. So in denial. If I cared so much about money, then why I am willing to give up all my possessions and business? Because I want to? Of course not. She already gave up on it. But reality is, life has forever changed and I won't look back (accept in IC and MC). If we have any hope for a future, it will be in different places with different jobs. I am OK with that. It was hard to come to terms with that. She hasn't yet. She still wants to have her cake and eat it to. The bottom line is that it is my home and my business too. If I don't want to own these possessions with you, I have that choice. You can't make some do that. She is still trying hard to feel like she is in control of this situation and trying to manipulate me. She has gotten really good at it. I won't let her and it is driving her nuts. I told her on that last phone call that I do not want to speak to her again on the phone. Since I walked out on d-day we have not seen each other. I said we will only communicate via email for work related issues. I said that we both should continue IC and when the time is right, we talk in MC.

Just as I was about to submit, i got this email from W:

"In regard to your divorce plan, I don't agree with this and thought that we might move through this in a less typical way. But you are choosing typical. Go forward with your plan. Just know that I take this absolutely as you already made your decision. As requested, I will not contact you any longer through telephone. I will only e-mail. As for today, I now have to take your plan and figure out what I'm going to do with said plan."

Funny, right. I explicitly said I hadn't made a decision regarding our relationship. I did make decisions regarding our future and put a plan together. I didn't say I am filing for divorce. I didn't say I am selling our business tomorrow. I didn't say I am putting our house up for sale next week. I said I am making a plan. She is starting to realize that I am moving on with my life and can't handle it.

[This message edited by Shockedman at 10:15 AM, May 31st (Friday)]


Posts: 102 | Registered: May 2013
Getting to Happy
Member
Member # 35200
Default  Posted: 10:38 AM, May 31st (Friday)

Hey Shockedman, you last post is very positive and powerful. Good for you.

I guess I missed the first part of your posts regarding outing the AP to the BS.

Thanks for the info Sailorgirl!

She is now in panic mode. Saying that I have no right to take way her home and her business and that obviously all I care about is money.

Consequences Baby!

Stay strong and please protect your heart.


WS him
BS me DD's 26, 25' DS 23
dd1 1-1-10, dd2 Mothers Day 2011, dd3 3-12-12 Hawaii trip with ho-worker...

Never forget what is worth remembering or remember what is best forgotten.
Unknown


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: La La Land
brokenblackbird
Member
Member # 29541
Default  Posted: 10:51 AM, May 31st (Friday)

She is starting to realize that I am moving on with my life and can't handle it.

Take a step back for a moment. I don't necessarily think that is what is happening here. What is happening is more manipulation.

"In regard to your divorce plan, I don't agree with this and thought that we might move through this in a less typical way. But you are choosing typical. Go forward with your plan. Just know that I take this absolutely as you already made your decision. As requested, I will not contact you any longer through telephone. I will only e-mail. As for today, I now have to take your plan and figure out what I'm going to do with said plan."

Now she wants you to tell her "No, no, no! I don't really want a divorce!"

Its all a part of having to be in control. She wants to put you in a position where you are coming to her and asking her to return. She wants the entire thing rugswept so she can go on as usual.

If that doesn't work, she'll say, "But it was YOU who wanted the divorce. I wanted to work on our marriage."

I understand everyone is giving you a ton of advice here, but we've seen this all a thousand times. Sadly, it rarely changes.

Figure out what your personal must haves are in this relationship, then go from there.


Posts: 777 | Registered: Sep 2010
Shockedman
Member
Member # 39376
Default  Posted: 11:18 AM, May 31st (Friday)

Thanks everyone. Staying Strong. my response email:

You are entitled to feel that way. I explicitly said I hadn't made a decision regarding our relationship. You are focusing on everything but that. Our relationship and marriage is only one piece to the puzzle. I did make decisions regarding our current life and assets and put a plan together.


Posts: 102 | Registered: May 2013
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 12:02 PM, May 31st (Friday)

Shocked - I am really impressed with your ability to see through the emotions of the matter, and find the strength to put yourself first.

She is starting to feel the control slipping from her hands, and will most likely respond in very ugly ways.

You obviously are a very smart guy, and probably finding some sense of relief without having to deal with her crappy attitude toward you every moment of every day.

Many foggy WS's tend to stay in the fog, and take the A underground when found out. Based on her reactions I would bet my lunch that they have, and for that reason I would contact the AP's wife, as you two can help each other to keep the two of them away from one another.

If you are unsure if you want to R or D that is OK, and perfectly normal. keep up the great work.

Stay Strong!


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8705 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
hopefulmother
Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 12:08 PM, May 31st (Friday)

Shockedman;

My biggest advice-
Don't focus on keeping your WS or winning them. Focus on the M when you start to ask yourself if you want this WS in your life. When you realize you deserve better. Focus on yourself and finding yourself until then.

I would look at the texts if she is willing to give up the password. Only if you think you may regret not looking at them someday. Once they are gone they are gone. And only if your wife wants R. I wish I had requested more.

Read "Not Just Friends" gives great insight on wives in the A. Usually, from what I recall they are well on their way of checking out of a M when they get to the A option for them. (This sounds like your wife)

She didn't have issues with you. They were issues with herself. She focused on everyone else around her in order to not face her own shortcomings. It is sick how she projected her own issues onto you during the A. She needs serious therapy.

I will give her this...she probably had problems with your lack of emotional involvement in many areas. It is not fair to hold you to her own emotional standards. She knew what you were like when she married you. But, she can't justify an A for that.

It may take up to a month or two for her to get out of the fog. If she is in a fog, and not already checked out.

Contact OM's W. You may not need details, but you will need her help to keep the A from going underground. Remember, all the nasty things that you think about the OM, the BW is thinking about your wife. She is selfish, broken, and a whole hell of a lot more. Especially if they have children. Then your W is a home wrecker to her, so be prepared for her to have some choice words to call your W.


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 10yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 946 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
Shockedman
Member
Member # 39376
Shutup  Posted: 12:52 PM, May 31st (Friday)

Thank you all again for everything your saying. I have found so much strength through many of your words and advice. My wife is in some serious trouble and I do feel for her. To be fair she generally didn't act shitty to me during the A, but she did just threw me enough bones to keep me off her trail. One of the hardest things is realizing how much she manipulated me. Part of the reason I had issues questioning her about her suspicious activities is because I couldn't. She has a fear of being alone. She has a fear of driving alone to far places. She used this against me, by saying that she trying to "Reconnect with herself" and do things alone. So when she would say I am going out by myself to night to shop or go fishing or to go on a long distance shopping trip or whatever, I had no choice but to be supportive because it was under the illusion that she was working on herself.

Posts: 102 | Registered: May 2013
Shockedman
Member
Member # 39376
Default  Posted: 8:09 AM, June 1st (Saturday)

Crazy this roller coaster of emotions. Yesterday I was sure I just wanted it to be over, divorce her and get on with my life. But today I have been incessantly reading Not Just Friends and it is really good. I think I realize now that I have to deal with this pain and anguish one way or another or it may damage or haunt me later in a new relationship or with W, if we choose to R. Making Rash decisions now could be a big mistake. I'm just going to keep reading for a bit. Anyone else care to comment that may have read this book. I have seen it recommended a lot.

Posts: 102 | Registered: May 2013
Shockedman
Member
Member # 39376
Default  Posted: 8:09 AM, June 1st (Saturday)

Crazy this roller coaster of emotions. Yesterday I was sure I just wanted it to be over, divorce her and get on with my life. But today I have been incessantly reading Not Just Friends and it is really good. I think I realize now that I have to deal with this pain and anguish one way or another or it may damage or haunt me later in a new relationship or with W, if we choose to R. Making Rash decisions now could be a big mistake. I'm just going to keep reading for a bit. Anyone else care to comment that may have read this book. I have seen it recommended a lot.

Posts: 102 | Registered: May 2013
Shockedman
Member
Member # 39376
Default  Posted: 3:59 PM, June 2nd (Sunday)

Still concerned about the NC. WW "seems" to be coming out of the fog, but that is still not something she wants to do yet. Obviously if we have any shot at R, this has to happen first. Starting to think her words are meaningless, until her actions match. As someone else pointed out her tune is only changing because I told her I were seeing a lawyer. I am afraid the for still persists. She is still just trying to manipulate me.

[This message edited by Shockedman at 4:00 PM, June 2nd (Sunday)]


Posts: 102 | Registered: May 2013
sailorgirl
Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 8:55 AM, June 3rd (Monday)

Shockedman,

What reason does WW give for refusing to send an NC letter?

Ask her to read How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair by Linda MacDonald. It is short and readable.

If she won't do either of these things, she is not R material yet, or possibly at all.


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
UndecidedinMA
Member
Member # 33732
Default  Posted: 12:50 PM, June 3rd (Monday)

Please don't make any major decision right now. I would stop telling her what you are doing. It just seems to be fueling a back & forth email game. She is not reading what you are truly saying just what she needs to justify her stance.

She changed her password on her cellphone account and I asked her about it. She said "I do still have the right to know my own passwords and have privacy" She also said "You really don't want to see the call or email logs. It will just hurt you" I already checked them and her cellphone carrier doesn't provide. I don't want to know all their intimate details anyway.

Pardon me but WTF!!!! No she gave up her right to privacy when she opened up your marriage to a 3rd party. I would & did put this as a dealbreaker. Give it up or give me up - on that point you should not negotiate.

It has to be just like with a toddler, set the punishment - say it - mean it - do it!!


ME - BSO
Him - FWSO
OW - DBC Xwife
DDAY 09/14/11 ONS w/DBCxWOW with 4 mos EA
Solidly in R

Posts: 1005 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: MA
Spelljean
Member
Member # 35624
Default  Posted: 2:16 PM, June 3rd (Monday)

I am so sorry you are here. Your story is just devastating to read. Many hugs to you and keep reading throughout the entire site.

My WH did the same thing when he first started seeing OW and they were mostly just flirtatious friends at that point. Eventually he would talk to me, and tell me basically I needed to "step it up" too, and I was neglecting him and then we would act all in love for a few days and he would then pull away again himself.

It was a trick to starting setting me up so he could justify that something was amiss in the marriage. (when it really wasn't) The proof to me, was when things would magically fall apart after a few days after a big "talk" and it wasn't me that would lose momentum...he would. Every single time. He would cleverly turn it around on me though. He would say things like "I sense both of us are having trouble getting along" when that wasn't true. It was all coming from him.


WH: 41
me: BS, 45
Together 18 1/2 years, married 17
DDAY 8/2/12
OW: EA- friend of 4 months
Status: separated

Posts: 903 | Registered: May 2012 | From: California
Shockedman
Member
Member # 39376
Default  Posted: 10:05 PM, June 3rd (Monday)

Spelljean: Yes, my WW wouldn't even really act lovey. Only once in a while. Just enough to keep me off her trail. She become impatient, angry, bitter. It was all an attempt to alienate me and demonize me so she could justify her A in her mind. Classic shit. The harder I tried to make things "Better" between us the more she pulled away. She was already gone at that point....

Posts: 102 | Registered: May 2013
hard_yards
Member
Member # 23549
Default  Posted: 11:09 PM, June 3rd (Monday)

I'm so sorry you find yourself dealing with this.

As an outsider looking in, my advice to you would be to cut the communications with your WS to all but essential business matters.

She is not sorry, she is no where near remorse, she's just p....d that she got caught out, that the fantasy is out in the open, and her secret life is secret no more.

At this point, you need to be completely egocentric, deal with what you need to, not her drama.

The texting, emailing and conversations are just feeding her need to be the center of interest and in control of you and the situation.

This has to stop.

If you remove all the vocal garbage, what is she actually doing?

She is more than likely still in contact with her AP and refuses a formal NC. She's vilifying you, in her mind it's all your fault. She's holding on to an ever decreasing level of control, and she refuses to give up her passwords.... she's calling it privacy, but as anyone here will tell you, after infidelity hits, it's not privacy - it's secrecy.

Your best course of action is to educate yourself as you plan to. Contact a top lawyer, accountant, estate agent, and prepare for the worst - we all hope that none of it is necessary, but to be forewarned is to be forearmed.

Read up on the 180, and live it. Let your WS have a taste of what's to come if she continues on in this fashion. She's the one throwing the word divorce around, not the words of someone who has any intention of R.

The comments above about turning her statements back on her is spot on, and don't forget the classic "I'm sorry you feel that way...." especially when she comes out with yet more verbage.

Please take care of yourself, and remember this is 100% on her, she freely chose to go outside your relationship.



I feel like I'm in a parallel universe... everything looks the same... but something's just not right...

Posts: 1241 | Registered: Apr 2009
Shockedman
Member
Member # 39376
Default  Posted: 1:24 PM, June 4th (Tuesday)

Thanks all for your continued support. I did get caught in the drama for a bit there. I thought my wife was starting to come out of the fog, but I think it was just a manipulation ploy. I realize that now and am living 180, and having 0 contact that isn't strictly business. I am an optimistic person and have been a caring and loving husband for the past 10 years. One thing I have learned in all this is to make sure I am 100% happy in myself. Part of my issues in our marriage were this. I spent all my time making sure she was happy and our marriage was OK, but never really asking myslef if I was truley happy. She spent her time looking at herself and her happiness and never at mine. Someone said it here or I read it, but it made sense. Your goal shouldn't be to spend you life trying to make your partner happy. It should be making yourself happy and sharing that happiness with your partner. I spent so much of my energy looking at her happiness. Thinking, if she is happy than I am happy, right? Happy wife, happy life!

Thats not healthy. It should be reversed. Happy life, happy wife....

[This message edited by Shockedman at 1:25 PM, June 4th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 102 | Registered: May 2013
alphakitte
Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 1:30 PM, June 4th (Tuesday)

Your WW's comment about MC seemed to be all about what you could do, as in "if you can forgive." I didn't see much in there about what she is in the process of doing such as exhibiting remorse and being transparent.

I think you've hit on something regarding your WW's focus all this time. I think she has been focused on her FOO issues and wanted you focused on them as well. Doing so would reassure her that she is the center of attention.


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 350 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
sailorgirl
Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 1:44 PM, June 4th (Tuesday)

Shockedman,

I'm glad to hear that your perspective is so healthy in the midst of this train wreck your WW is making of her life.

I was hoping that she would hit rock bottom when she realized what she had done. My WH faced the fact that he had become an adulterer, liar and emotional abuser. He felt like he had thrown away his integrity and he was destroyed. It was rock bottom for him and he finally started admitting that FOO dysfunction was still affecting him greatly.

I hope for your WW's sake that she will be mature and honest enough for that to happen. But you can't wait around. 180 and whatever's best for Shockedman! It is your turn.

Btw, you will be even wiser and stronger when you come through this. Great qualities for a dad (just sayin')


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
sadtoo
Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 9:14 PM, June 4th (Tuesday)

Hi Shockedman
Sorry you are in this situation.

I can relate to being married to an adult child of an alcoholic. My WH (now ex-husband) was also raised in an alcoholic household. The problems were numerous. Lying, secrets, boundary (or lack there of) his own alcohol problems and of course infidelity.

The contradictions were mind boggling with him and his family. He/they would "say" one thing, but do another. This went from everything from religion to moral values. And as is true in most situations, the truth was always in the "actions".

Something that stood out as a "red flag" in your original post was the situation about your SIL and her infidelity with your brother.

An example is my brothers wife had an affair a few years ago. my brothers W and my W were/are good friends and my brothers W confided in my W about her affair and expected loyalty. My W was in a tough spot because now she was forced to lie to me and after a month or two couldn't do it anymore and came to me with this info.

I find it very, very odd that your brother's wife would choose to confide in your wife about her own affair. That would be almost like you having an affair and telling her sister about it. (not quite) I know they are close, but this is OFF. I would think you would only confide something like this with some you KNEW FOR SURE would be ok and accepting of it. And telling your husband's brother's wife....well, that adds another whole layer to this.

I can tell you this. If any of my friends ever had an affair, I would be the LAST person they would confide in about it. There is absolutely NO question where I stand on the topic. And there is NO FRIEND who could "force me" to lie to my husband in order to go along with or help cover up someone's affair.

NO. WAY. IN. HELL.


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 8032 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
Topic Posts: 65