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User Topic: porn boundaries
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 8:45 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

A point I'm really struggling with is a porn boundary. Whether to create one or not. If it's a big deal or not. If it's my insecurities or beliefs that stand in the way. If I'm just a prude. If I'm being hypocritical. And of course I am leery of posting because porn is such a huge source of debate here. And we know people here IRL and I just feel weird.

Basically I'm a recovering self-hater. My own worst critic. I'm learning to accept and love myself regardless of who or what. Making progress in that area. But I stumble terribly when it comes to my husband. And I don't know if it's a vulnerability thing or a "broken and need more work" thing.

Hate porn. Hate "sexy" mags. Hate anything that worships the body of a woman. When I see them, I see everything I'm not and could never attain to, regardless of airbrushing and Photoshop. When I see my husband looking at any of it, I feel incredibly insecure. Does he wish I looked like that? Am I enough? Does he deal with me cause he "has" to? Does he picture those girls when he's with me? Am I letting him down by not being the ideal?

He has loved me at my physical worst and physical best. But if he really loves me, and I believe he does, why does he look at outside things? What does that accomplish? I don't see how ogling a magazine fox is going to make him want me more.

Couple weeks ago, I got on his phone to Google something. There were already three tabs open and every single one of them was a babe in skimpy stuff, toned, tanned, and hairless from the eyebrows down. I asked, "Ummm...what's this?" and he looked completely shocked and like he had no idea where it came from. I don't know if he legitimately didn't know how they got there or if he was ashamed and didn't want me to know.

He's always said that he doesn't like porn. And nothing I've seen that he's looked at is "hardcore". It's more...softcore? (Dunno the proper term.)

So here's where I get hung up. I can watch porn, we've done it before together, but it's not a huge deal either way. Whatever. But if I find out he's looked at stuff alone, I get sick to my stomach. Is he scratching an itch? Is there a such thing as scratching the itch? Is he ashamed? Is it just a "guy thing" (which I don't think I believe in.) Guy or girl, doesn't matter. For every visual man is a visual woman. For every hypersexual male is a hypersexual female. I don't think the guy/girl rationale fits?

Porn is very trigger for me. My AP was hardcore into it. We're talking majorly kinky crap. I willingly engaged in watching/swapping with him. Guess I felt that since he was scratching my back, may as well scratch his. Had to support each other's egos and whatnot. I still have nightmares about it. Still physically cringe when I remember it.

Lingerie is also very triggery for me. AP was an "expert" in it. I cannot look at a pair of panties without remembering his tips and tricks. I haven't been shopping since before the A. Just. can't. do. it. He helped me ruin the experience of shopping and picking stuff out. I stole that experience from my husband. I've tried to take the trigger back but so far, no luck. Pick up a nighty in a department store? I can do it without running thru with my head ducked now. But to go into a lingerie specific store or website, I get panicky.

I don't know if I need to just get over myself and let my husband enjoy his softcore stuff. If it's damaging to our relationship. And worst of all, I don't even know how to talk to him about this. I struggle with having the "right" to question, be answered, and enforce rules and boundaries for myself. This communication thing sucks when I don't even know what to think of it all anyway.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6045 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
silverhopes
Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 8:57 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

Aubrie,

You know it makes you feel uncomfortable. So this is a boundary that your body (via the nervousness, sick-to-your-stomach feeling) is telling you should not be crossed. Part of being healthy is knowing you have the right to have boundaries, to keep yourself physically and emotionally safe. The porn sounds like it's crossing your emotional boundaries.

It's OK to talk about it, it's OK to have boundaries about it. I wish I had a suggestion for how to bring it up. I did, and my H got angry when I did, and then didn't stop watching it until his phone's internet gave out. It didn't feel nice to have those boundaries repeatedly crossed, and to this day I'm still healing from it.

You're not a prude and you're not hypocritical. You're being true to yourself. (((hugs)))


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
"Not my monkeys. Not my circus." ~Polish proverb (<~~~ as a codependent person, this comes in handy sometimes!)

Posts: 3880 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 9:06 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

Logically, I know that boundaries are right and healthy. Physical safety boundaries has never been an issue. But emotional boundaries is where I've fallen apart at the seams and it probably comes from being so stunted in my past. It's so hard for me to place them and stick to them.

I'm scared to bring it up because when I asked about his phone browser, he acted shocked and then clamed up. I'm scared a "discussion" wouldn't be any different.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6045 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
silverhopes
Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 9:18 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

What you wrote here makes total sense and comes across as very clear. Is there any way of taking what you wrote here to help prompt you if/when you discuss it with him, or if you feel more comfortable to write a letter?

I hear you. This is a difficult issue to bring up and talk about.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
"Not my monkeys. Not my circus." ~Polish proverb (<~~~ as a codependent person, this comes in handy sometimes!)

Posts: 3880 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
Unagie
Member
Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 9:49 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

Hun openness goes both ways. You've said this to me before. If it is something you feel uncomfortable with sit hubby down and talk. Open, honest, non judging communication can do wonders. You both have come so far and this is another step. Tell him how it makes you feel and what you need, from what you've said about him previously I don't see this conversation going badly. Find out why he clammed up, be honest with him and yourself. It's all we have.


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

Do not let others be your reference for who you see in the mirror.

Stop allowing people to hurt you, because you don't love you enough to walk away.


Posts: 2624 | Registered: Oct 2012
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 10:30 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

Silver, I don''t know. Sometimes I tell him I''ve posted about a difficult subject and would he please read it? I guess this time, I''m struggling with having an issue with something when in the scope of the "big picture" it''s not "as bad" as other battles we''ve faced.

I hear you Unagie.

Trying to think this out. Maybe I need to sleep on it.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6045 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 11:01 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

I see two issues here. One is your self image issue. That one you have to tackle on your own. And I get it, I have my own issue with that.

The other is, why can you do it with him, but you have a problem with him doing it on his own? Do you feel he is keeping something from you?


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4478 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
wincings_sparkle
Member
Member # 27129
Default  Posted: 11:06 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)

Porn is very trigger for me. My AP was hardcore into it. We're talking majorly kinky crap. I willingly engaged in watching/swapping with him. Guess I felt that since he was scratching my back, may as well scratch his. Had to support each other's egos and whatnot. I still have nightmares about it. Still physically cringe when I remember it.

Lingerie is also very triggery for me. AP was an "expert" in it. I cannot look at a pair of panties without remembering his tips and tricks. I haven't been shopping since before the A. Just. can't. do. it. He helped me ruin the experience of shopping and picking stuff out. I stole that experience from my husband.

Gently here. This is something that you need to examine a little more.

Boundaries are all well and good if they are legitimate. If they are about your insecurities, your dysfunction and your guilt... well that isn't a healthy boundary.

There is a line between a boundary and manipulation. Boundaries are designed to protect yourself, manipulation is about changing someone else's behavior. Are you trying to change his behavior so that you don't have to deal with your self-esteem issues (or whatever issues)?

Honest communication is great, just make sure you are being honest with yourself first.

You have a slew of questions and suppositions of what your husband may or may not be thinking. Don't assume. You know better.

Good luck.


"When you hold resentment toward another, you are bound to that person or condition by an emotional link that is stronger than steel. Forgiveness is the only way to dissolve that link and get free."
- Catherine Ponder
Me-FWW. BH-wincing_at_light

Posts: 1594 | Registered: Jan 2010
KBeguile
Member
Member # 38348
Default  Posted: 12:20 AM, May 29th (Wednesday)

Aubrie:

I think other people have explained it here better than I could hope to. Still, I'm the first male to respond to this, so I may have a bit of a different take on it.

For me, this is a completely slippery slope. It depends solely on the motive and the level of significance it takes in his mind. To put it into perspective: sex, sexual gratification, porn, and cyber sex all came before Heart when I was 'in the Fog' -- now, I barely even think about any of them without Heart being included in my thoughts (either as a participant or what her reaction would be should she discover me with it, which tends to act as prohibition).

If his looking at women starts taking a dangerous precedence to your marriage, or if he can't perform without having porn around in some fashion, then it has impeded his life and is, therefore, a problem. That tends to be the thin-line definition that deals with these things; if and when the object/concept/idea starts to overtake the importance and sanctity of the marriage, then that is when the object/concept/idea becomes "bad."

There should be warning signs when this line is crossed, but it requires vigilance. You shouldn't have to be his babysitter any more than he should have to be yours.

(Just edited. Didn't add anything.)

[This message edited by KBeguile at 9:01 PM, June 3rd (Monday)]


Me: fWS 32
Her: BS 35 (HeartInADustpan)
DS: 4yo
M: 7 years
DDays: 2012/11/14, 2013/02/05, 2013/03/09
-
"Everything that happens now is happening 'now.'"
"What happened to 'then'?"
"We passed 'then.'"

Posts: 754 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: St. Louis
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 9:29 AM, May 29th (Wednesday)

The other is, why can you do it with him, but you have a problem with him doing it on his own? Do you feel he is keeping something from you?
We have watched/looked at it before together. As in, like 9-10 years ago. He said it just wasn't his thing so we decided it wouldn't be a part of our lives. If he feels that way, then why look at it now and not tell me? If he has changed his mind, why hide it? There was no way those pictures were on his phone "accidentally".

So I guess I'm confused. We agreed porn wouldn't be a part of our relationship. I obviously blew that up with AP. Since the A, I haven't participated in anything remotely attached to porn because, that's not our thing, and I vowed to respect that upon confessing to him.

wincings, so good to see you.

Are you trying to change his behavior so that you don't have to deal with your self-esteem issues (or whatever issues)?
That would be the easy way out. But what if he drops dead tomorrow? I'm still a screwed up mess. Dealing with the issues is what needs to be done.

I feel like I can hide from the porn thing because I thought we'd agreed to not participate in it. But if that is changing, I know I'm doing to have to deal with it.

The lingerie thing is a work in progress. What kills me is that I can't shop my favorite places or look at anything without overly critiquing it now. And where did that critique come from? AP. We have tainted that whole experience. Part of me like like, "Screw it. I'll buy what I want, wear what I want, the only one that sees is my husband, and if I look smokin', it's to his benefit alone. AP be hanged." There's a battle in the mind to keep the right perspective. It's just the "right" doesn't always win out yet.

If the rules have changed, then I guess that means I'll have to decide how I feel about that. But if the rules are the same, then I don't understand the hiding.

You are right wincings. We do need to talk. Just trying to psych myself up.

Spare me the hugs KB. We're not family related. Handshake will suffice.

What you describe is way more extreme that what I'm dealing with. He doesn't have performance issues whatsoever. He seems to quite enjoy our times together. He's not "dangerous".


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6045 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
idiot85
Member
Member # 38934
Default  Posted: 9:48 AM, May 29th (Wednesday)

I know I'm not the best at advice but- just my opinion...

He might be hiding it- actually- not hiding as such- being discreet (yeah yeah it's the same thing but bear with me) in a polite/not pervy way? I look at porn sometimes- not for a while but I have done and I do "hide" it but I'm not hiding- the Mrs knows but I don't flaunt it- you get me?

Thing is- if you're not happy with that- you'd be the first to say you need to talk to him about it- maybe the rules have changed- maybe when you drew up new rules some from the previous list fell off- maybe the rules haven't changed and he's being mischievous- being a rule breaker.

I think (I know me thinking is dangerous but none the less) I think even if someone has previous done wrong- if you decide to R it isn't acceptable to be like "well you cheated so I'm going to do this and you can't stop me"- but- you know that already- much more than me.

Over & out Chief.


BH-29 (me)
WW-28

Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur.


Posts: 575 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Old Blighty
SandAway
Member
Member # 37775
Default  Posted: 1:02 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)

Yep, I hear you gf,

But if he really loves me, and I believe he does, why does he look at outside things?

I felt this way also. Always bothered me when my BH viewed it. Always. Made me feel inferior to every one of those women.

Make sure Mr. Aubrie knows how you feel about this, even as your working on your own self esteem.

[This message edited by SandAway at 1:59 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)]


fWW
BH Tred
M 16yrs
DDay Nov. 2011

Guns don't kill people; Affairs kill people


Posts: 431 | Registered: Dec 2012
MissesJai
Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 1:15 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)

Gently - Aubrie, your self-esteem and body issues are the real problems here. Does his viewing these images take time away from you? Does he not want to be physically intimate with you because he'd rather look at women? I'm pretty confident the answer is no.
if he really loves me, and I believe he does, why does he look at outside things?
sweetie, his looking at that stuff has nothing to do with his love for you. C'mon, you know this.
What does that accomplish?
Ask him. He would be the only one to know.
I don't see how ogling a magazine fox is going to make him want me more.
What he's doing ain't about you. How you are reacting to it is all about you.

INAB watches porn - we've watched it together. He watches it alone. It's whatever to me. Don't get me wrong, I have self-esteem & body issues BUT at the end of the day, he's my husband, he loves me, he wants ME, and he's made that clear. I'm good with that. Really good. Porn has not crossed a boundary nor has it caused any damage to our relationship. Now, if the last sentence were untrue, then we'd have a problem.

Bottom line - talk to him. Even if he clams up, still talk to him. Communicate how it makes you feel. A closed mouth don't get fed.


FWW - 40
I'm big on personal responsibility. Own your shit. ALL OF IT.

Posts: 5761 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 2:34 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)

How did you get thru your self-image/esteem crap MJ? How do you just sit back, with your self issues and not feel threatened or worthless when your husband (or anyone) does or doesn't do something?

I am so tired of this crap. I'm tired of stumbling. To have what seems like sure footing for 2 seconds then BAM, flat on my face. Am I crazy? Am I doing something wrong?

Make sure Mr. Aubrie knows how you feel about this, even as your working on your own self esteem.
Doesn't really frickin' matter what he does because this pretty much is all on me anyway. I need to figure out how to navigate the crap storm regardless of anything or anyone else.

Oh, and he got on SI this morning and read my post. Hasn't been on in ages. But he read this morning. Don't have to worry about how to broach the subject with him now. :/

If a veteran has some insight (magical or otherwise) on how to navigate this nightmare of self-image/worth/esteem and finally beat it, please feel free to post here or PM me. I'm at a loss.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6045 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
silverhopes
Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 2:52 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)

If a veteran has some insight (magical or otherwise) on how to navigate this nightmare of self-image/worth/esteem and finally beat it, please feel free to post here or PM me. I'm at a loss.

You're not alone, Aubrie. I want to know too. It's a struggle.

I think, like with many difficult things, there are triggers. For us who struggle with self-esteem, maybe porn is a trigger. As well, maybe overly-sexual TV ads, Cosmo articles, certain words like "hot" etc. While I know we cannot avoid triggers for the rest of our lives, maybe it helps to take time to specifically steer away from those triggers, so as to not reopen wounds, while we heal.

And the next step, I think, is to love yourself outside of your appearance. And that's hard.

What's something you love about yourself? A year ago, I didn't care that I am an environmentalist, a gardener, and that, more than my friends' acknowledgement of it, it's something that fills me with life. But lately, I took a look at it and remembered my passion for it and now am slowly rebuilding it - but taking the time to specifically detach it from instances of external validation, remember why I'm proud of it instead of why other people are or aren't. The trick is finding something you love about yourself that doesn't depend heavily on validation by others. Just something you love. And so you spend more time with it. It takes a long time, maybe even months, but you slowly identify with that passion again. Preferably something you love about yourself that isn't about appearance, though that's good too. But I think a key is to really love all of who you are, and do it without external validation. So start with something you already love without validation. Does that make sense?

I'm struggling too, so I'm not at the end of the tunnel, but this is what's slowly helping right now. I hope some other folks further along have some insights.

As for the porn that your H watches... while it's true that in the end it mustn't matter what he does, at the same time marriage is a team effort. You two are a team. If you're trying to heal your self-esteem, and porn triggers some hurtful and negative thoughts (or if you just disagree with porn on principle), you can ask him to support you as you're working through it, right? As a teammate, how can he support his wife as she deals with this? What does porn mean to you as a team? For him, would it be reasonable to keep porn out of the home, so it would feel emotionally safer? Or does that feel controlling to him? I admit I'm not sure where the line is, because in a marriage sexuality is also a team thing, even though it's also individual. It's also a matter of values. You thought that you both valued not having porn in the marriage. It would be worth looking again to see if you both still carry those values. There's nothing wrong with clarifying that, imo.

ETA: Another thing about the struggle of low self-esteem... Accept it. We accept that this is our struggle. Accept that this is part of us. It doesn't mean that the negative self-thoughts are true, but if we can accept that we struggle with this... we can have more energy to heal from it in the long term. We can also change some of our values... Maybe beauty doesn't deserve as much power as we're giving it. Maybe kindness or attentiveness or good boundaries or a great mind or simply living etc etc deserve more.

[This message edited by silverhopes at 3:00 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)]


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
"Not my monkeys. Not my circus." ~Polish proverb (<~~~ as a codependent person, this comes in handy sometimes!)

Posts: 3880 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
MissesJai
Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 2:57 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)

How? I remind myself that
he's my husband, he loves me, he wants ME, and he's made that clear.
I affirm myself daily. I work on myself. I grow. I struggle with self-esteem but it doesn't control me anymore. I don't allow it. Ultimately, it's his life. I decide if I allow what he does to impact me in a negative way. I choose not to let it get to me because I know, at my core, that his choices aren't about me. That makes it easier for me to say "whatevs" to it. Not to mention, I'm a catch. I know it. Those broads on the screen ain't got shit on me. I'm 100% confident about that. So, INAB can ogle all he wants. They are just fantasy. I am his reality and I am better than anything he can watch on TV, on the computer, or in print. Point blank and the period.

At present, your self-esteem issues are in the driver's seat. This won't stop until you take back the wheel. It's natural to stumble and fall - just pick yourself back up.

IMO, I think it's a blessing in disguise that Mr. Aubrie read your post. It's a perfect segue to a much needed conversation. Breathe Aubrie. You are a beautiful, intelligent, funny, amazing woman. Mr. A knows this and once you come to fully own this, in both your mind & soul, you will be free.


FWW - 40
I'm big on personal responsibility. Own your shit. ALL OF IT.

Posts: 5761 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 8:23 AM, May 30th (Thursday)

I think it's a blessing in disguise that Mr. Aubrie read your post. It's a perfect segue to a much needed conversation.
I wasn't aware till last night, but he followed this thread all throughout the day. It was all kinds of awkward when he got home. :/ Took a while to break thru and start talking. And even still, it feels like quicksand all over again.

The "rules" have not changed. He chose to do his own thing. I found out his usage was for a longer period of time and more frequent than I thought. That kind of hurt to hear. He didn't realize how much of a trigger/fight I have with it. Last night I had to pour out how and why.

In the beginning days after Dday, he never asked for detail, never asked for much. And I think because of his lack of wanting to know, I've kept more in than I should and it's killing us both. I'm wondering if I should write out a timeline and the whats/wheres/hows/whatever. Makes me sick to think about it, but maybe it would help us both more than we realize.

He can't understand why I have these insecurities and why it affects so much of my life. The best example I could think of that he could relate to was, if you were not 100% confident in your field of work, would you want to advertise your business in every newspaper, magazine, billboard, and park bench into the Metro area? Even a small ad in the Peddler or Craigslist would freak a person out. You have to have the confidence in your workmanship to take large strides.

My husband is at a loss on how to help me. Last night he asked me, "Do you need to get away? Do you need to be alone?" The very thought panicked me. Me? Alone? Go away somewhere for the weekend? Where? What would I do? What would it accomplish? Would it help? Yet something in the recesses of my mind thought, "Wow, that would be kind of neat. I've never been anywhere alone." *shrug* Still thinking about that one.

Another thing about the struggle of low self-esteem... Accept it.
I've been fighting that a long time. There are times I try to psych myself up to accept it, but I think I've been fooling myself all along. Disbelief, horror, and shame are blocking me from full acceptance. I know there's issues. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. So what's the big deal, right?

What's something you love about yourself?
This is sad, but I don't know. I had started to find out but I let myself get lost again in the grand scheme of things. Most of the things I loved about myself are what helped me get into trouble in the first place. The other things about me are attached to people.

Someone here had suggested I feed my hobby of choice an hour a day. (That was months ago) Every time I worked on it I felt sick, so I laid it aside. That hobby is a trigger and it's going to take work to really enjoy it again, if ever.

Silver, the first thing I thought when I read your post is, I haven't read a single book in 19 months. Everything has been either a school textbook or relationship/self-healing book. I want to read more. Last weekend, I purchased a papasan chair. (Don't judge. It's a childhood dream come true.) Haven't had 10 minutes to sit in it yet. So this morning, I set my alarm an hour early, brewed some coffee, curled up in my papasan in the library, and read. It felt...nice, good, normal, natural.

I don't know that reading in the mornings is going to fix crappy self-image issues, but it was nice to sit and relax in the silence for a while. Today I might make a throw for ME, for my chair. My toes get cold when I sit still.

Weirdest timing evah, but Mr. Aubrie had scheduled date night for us tonight before this whole episode unfolded. I feel awkward, but looking forward to it. And I'm toying with the idea of asking him to help me to slay another trigger/panic. Scary. :/

We shall see.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6045 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
wifehad5
Moderator
Member # 15162
Default  Posted: 9:58 AM, May 30th (Thursday)

You're off to a good start

I'm wondering if I should write out a timeline and the whats/wheres/hows/whatever. Makes me sick to think about it, but maybe it would help us both more than we realize.

I was the opposite of Mr Aubrie in that I needed all of the details. BR wrote them out over the course of a few weeks. She's a writer, so it's just written out. The document is something like 34 pages long.

It was painful for her to write, and it was painful for me to read, but it did help us both. It helped her to get it out. I'd suggest writing it out just to get it out of your system. He doesn't need to read it, but he will have that option if he ever wants to do so.

That hobby is a trigger and it's going to take work to really enjoy it again, if ever.

Maybe it's time to find a new hobby

You're under two years out, so you're still healing. Triggers can and will fade with time. It may not be time to reclaim your old hobby, but don't write it off forever. Find something new.

Right before our last D-day, BR took up karate. She now has a black belt and her own Dojo. Try new things


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 36421 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 10:15 AM, May 30th (Thursday)

I'd suggest writing it out just to get it out of your system.
As selfish as it sounds, I think that's what I need. Just to purge it all out. I will leave it up to him whether he wants anything to do with it or not.

I'm like BR. If I get to writing, it could go on for days. This is going to be hard.

A new hobby may be the ticket. For now, I'm happy with my book time. But I'll start looking into new stuff too.

Thanks for the support everyone.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6045 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
wifehad5
Moderator
Member # 15162
Default  Posted: 10:19 AM, May 30th (Thursday)

Put a boundary around your writing time. It will be very emotional and draining. You have time to get it all out


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 36421 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 12:35 PM, May 30th (Thursday)

I'm going to take this thread in a bit of a different direction because I feel as if a big issue is being over-looked and it's become a *Aubrie needs to fix her self-image* issue. I can see why it took this turn, since she posted about her own insecurities and how she is affected by images of Photoshopped images.

BUT....The title is *Porn Boundaries*. NOT *Porn makes ME feel like shit*.

So here's my take (sorry MrAub if you're reading):

Whether to create one or not

This boundary was already in place. According to you it was put there 9-10 years ago.
He said it just wasn't his thing so we decided it wouldn't be a part of our lives.

^^^THAT was the agreement that was put in place. I understand that YOU broke that boundary, but that doesn't give him free reign to unilaterally break it also without having a discussion with you and telling you that he wants to re-negotiate that boundary.


He's always said that he doesn't like porn.

He *says* one thing....and then *acts* incongruently with that. Am I the only one that sees a problem with this that has nothing to do with Aub's self-image?

No, Aub....you don't need to *get away* (unless you want to, of course ). What you need is to have a partner whose words and actions align. Regardless of the subject matter.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7680 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
MissesJai
Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 12:41 PM, May 30th (Thursday)

Put a boundary around your writing time.
agreed... This is YOUR time. Embrace it.


FWW - 40
I'm big on personal responsibility. Own your shit. ALL OF IT.

Posts: 5761 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
WWMEH13
Member
Member # 38722
Default  Posted: 12:55 PM, May 30th (Thursday)

I agree with gonna be - If it bothers you, and you would prefer he not look at it, then I think that is okay. Some couples have no issues with it, some women have no issues with it, but obviously you do, as I do now, I didn't used to, but my BH's addiction to it, certainly did help my insecurities.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't continue to work on yourself, but if this is detrimental to your healing, I believe it is okay to say no more porn.

Because frankly, I think it does interfere and it does affect how our partners view us, and I think there is an unrealistic expectation created with it, and it does take away from true intimacy with your partner.


ETA - Think how much more explosive your time together could be, if he could refrain from that outlet, when he was feeling a need. Keep it bottled up and bring it home to you. He has seen enough naked women in his life, that he can use his imagination instead of porn

[This message edited by WWMEH13 at 12:58 PM, May 30th (Thursday)]


WW - 38
BH - 38
EA/PA - 8 months
Married 4 years together 7
2 Ddays, same AP last one in December 2012
NC - 2/1/2013
DS - 2 years old

Status - Divorcing


Posts: 80 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: USA
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 1:03 PM, May 30th (Thursday)

Put a boundary around your writing time.
I will. Don't know that I can handle large doses at a time. :/

Yes Gonnabe, the porn boundary was in place from early in our relationship. So in essence, it was already created and he breached it. Just as I breached the infidelity boundary.

The images on his phone were not an accident. He had deliberately been looking at things and I found them. He played dumb and lied to me because he was ashamed.

He felt like we were drifting, he didn't feel right, and instead of talking to me, he chose to click images. That is the part that scares me a bit. He internalized his concern and didn't speak up. We've been trying so hard to talk more to one another and be open with our feelings. His issues with intimacy and abandonment are probably part of why he chose to look up porn as opposed to talking to me. His image searches were a result of a ball of hurt, confusion, internalizing, and not communicating. That is his to own.

I can't help fix what I don't know exists. Even then, I can only do so much. Just as I have had to learn and am still learning coping skills and healthier choices, he has to do the same.

We're talking about this. We're not finished talking about this. He stated last night that the rules are the same. No porn. I don't know what to do if it happens again.

All of that does not exclude me from my own work and I'm not looking for an out. I've been here this long and don't plan on bailing out, regardless of how hard it is. I'm tired of being a half-butt effort kind of a person. I want to be healthy, him to be healthy, and us to be healthy.

[This message edited by Aubrie84 at 1:04 PM, May 30th (Thursday)]


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6045 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
silverhopes
Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 1:19 PM, May 30th (Thursday)

The "rules" have not changed. He chose to do his own thing.

He *says* one thing....and then *acts* incongruently with that.

I think Gonna makes a great point. This IS an issue as well. I think there are two separate issues to work on: self-esteem (personal) and porn boundaries (team). Even working on self-esteem, there was still a boundary that was crossed - since you guys already agreed there wouldn't be porn in your M.

Are you guys talking about how to honor the original boundaries, or are you negotiating changing them? Would you feel more comfortable keeping the original boundaries and keeping porn out of your M?

I want to read more. Last weekend, I purchased a papasan chair.

Absolutely no judgement from me. They look very comfortable, and more importantly, you got something you enjoy.

So this morning, I set my alarm an hour early, brewed some coffee, curled up in my papasan in the library, and read. It felt...nice, good, normal, natural.

That's exactly it. That IS how gradually you move towards healing self-esteem issues. You do things and remind yourself what you love about life. It's as simple as taking that time for yourself to relax and read. Because you chose to do it for yourself, because *you* like it. Taking care of yourself is how you move to healthy self-esteem.

Perhaps it helps to think of porn as similar to alcohol. For many people, alcohol really messes with their bodies - liver problems, headaches, etc. Or perhaps we or someone we know has had an addiction or a driving accident... We don't have to be around alcohol to prove to ourselves we can handle it. Sometimes the very best thing for us is to not be around it. Same with porn. If porn makes us feel sickened or upset, for whatever reason - self-conscious about our bodies, not liking to see people being exploited in certain venues of porn, etc. - then why should we make ourselves be around it?

ETA: Just saw your above post. It sounds like you are working through things together, still talking about it, and that's great.

That is his to own.

I can't help fix what I don't know exists. Even then, I can only do so much. Just as I have had to learn and am still learning coping skills and healthier choices, he has to do the same.

[This message edited by silverhopes at 1:22 PM, May 30th (Thursday)]


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
"Not my monkeys. Not my circus." ~Polish proverb (<~~~ as a codependent person, this comes in handy sometimes!)

Posts: 3880 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
wincings_sparkle
Member
Member # 27129
Default  Posted: 8:43 PM, May 30th (Thursday)

the porn boundary was in place from early in our relationship. So in essence, it was already created and he breached it. Just as I breached the infidelity boundary.


Clarify for me please: Who broke the porn boundary first? I'm pretty sure that Aubrie was swapping porn with her AP. I would think that blew up that boundary. If Aubrie and Hubby had not discusses new terms then there was nothing for Mr. A to breach.

I don't see this as a betrayal.
Lack of communication: Yes.
Betrayal: No.

His issues with intimacy and abandonment are probably...

Is this from Mr A or are you theorizing what you think he might be feeling?

IDK, I would ask if he was really ashamed or just fearful of your reaction.
There is a difference in feeling ashamed of something and not wanting to have someone angry at you for something they don't like but you do. KWIM?

This just feels wrong to me. Honestly, there had to be some part of you (Aubrie) that liked porn, just as Mr. A has a part that liked looking at porn. If you both have a part of you that likes porn and deny it because you both think that is what the other wants... that is not healthy. That is asking for an explosion of something later. Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

We are not talking porn addiction here. That is not a factor at all in the Aubrie world.

Just thinking out loud. More communication is definitely needed here Aub.

Good Luck.


"When you hold resentment toward another, you are bound to that person or condition by an emotional link that is stronger than steel. Forgiveness is the only way to dissolve that link and get free."
- Catherine Ponder
Me-FWW. BH-wincing_at_light

Posts: 1594 | Registered: Jan 2010
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 9:41 PM, May 30th (Thursday)

Who broke the porn boundary first?
Me. I blew up the boundary. Won't deny that. The rules were still the same after my confession. We both have been guilty of it. So what are you getting at? If one of us does something first, the other gets a free pass? Does lying and hiding something only qualify as miscommunication?

His issues with intimacy and abandonment are probably...

Is this from Mr A or are you theorizing what you think he might be feeling?

That's from him.

Honestly, there had to be some part of you (Aubrie) that liked porn
Honestly, no. I don't enjoy it even guiltily. There are multiple reasons for my dislike. However, it was currency for AP's affection and attention. Had he been in closer proximity to me, it would have been sex or other sexual favors. As it was, porn was the only currency at my disposal that seemed to attract and keep his attention. That included not only existing internet porn, but the exploitation of myself.

The rest I don't really feel comfortable hashing out publicly. Mr and I will continue talking.

Thanks for the help wincings.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6045 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
stilllovingher
Member
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 9:46 PM, May 30th (Thursday)

IDK, I would ask if he was really ashamed or just fearful of your reaction.
There is a difference in feeling ashamed of something and not wanting to have someone angry at you for something they don't like but you do. KWIM?

This just feels wrong to me. Honestly, there had to be some part of you (Aubrie) that liked porn, just as Mr. A has a part that liked looking at porn. If you both have a part of you that likes porn and deny it because you both think that is what the other wants... that is not healthy. That is asking for an explosion of something later. Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

that up there is golden...

its blatantly obvious that neither of you *reaaally* dislike porn, as shown by your respective actions.
And that's okay.

IMO, telling him "no more porn" is a mistake. Its demanding him to adapt an objective value that is obviously not one of his own.

I think a smarter way to go about this is to drop those decade old "boundaries" that likely had more to do with impressing the other than anything else, and actually talk honestly about the subject.

It seems clear that you don't actually dislike porn, you dislike the emotions it triggers in you due to your own insecurities and history.

my best guess is that his initial reaction was a simple and common knee-jerk. could've been based in fear of how he imagined your response, could've been him not wanting you to think less of him...don't know, but what we do know is that he is definitely NOT opposed to porn, its unrealistic to expect that to change because you "said so".

funny, I remember me and slhim posting about this same topic around this same timeframe.

good luck, hope date night goes well.
I still wish Mr Aubry would join us here...even if its just long enough to give him a proper moniker.


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2401 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
stilllovingher
Member
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 9:49 PM, May 30th (Thursday)

sorry, apparently you DO dislike porn.
can't edit right now.


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2401 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
wincings_sparkle
Member
Member # 27129
Default  Posted: 11:07 PM, May 30th (Thursday)

The rest I don't really feel comfortable hashing out publicly. Mr and I will continue talking.

^^^Is good.

I'm just asking you to think about this carefully.

The rules were still the same after my confession.

Were they really? Did you assume they were the same or verbally say "No more porn for either of us." or "No more porn for me." Leaving the door open for Mr. A.

So what are you getting at? If one of us does something first, the other gets a free pass?

What I am getting at is you digging. You know there are no free passes. Tit for Tat is not how a good relationship works. Why are you angry at my questioning you? If you are angry or defensive there is something there.
Does lying and hiding something only qualify as miscommunication?
Depends on what is being hidden and why the lie. Sometimes what we think is hidden is just not important to the person and they don't think of it as "hidden"---just not shared. And like I said before, sometimes people lie to avoid anger in the moment. It is what it is and that is bad communication.

Stilllovingher: you dislike the emotions it triggers in you due to your own insecurities and history.

^^^^ This is something that will be brutal to examine. Looking that deeply into the abyss of the mind is necessary. Currency may be what you call it. Hate the way it was used. Truly, I get the thought pattern here.

I used my body as currency, I remember the feeling of selling myself for what I thought I needed at the time. What I won't deny is that there is a part of me that enjoyed being consumed.

Just because I enjoyed a part of the betrayal of myself and my BH doesn't mean that I can just say, "Oh no, I hate sex. Never going to do it again." That would be cutting out a major part of me and a big lie. Plus, my BH wouldn't want me to do that to myself or him. I don't know if I'm expressing this well.

There are parts of us that we salvage from the wreckage of the Affair. Things that are private that we think will be "bad to keep". Some of those parts are not "bad", some of those are pieces of ourselves that we were afraid to share with our spouse for fear of rejection. Part of healing is admitting to what we like and asking for the possibility of sharing that without judgement. It is amazing what can come of that kind of deep communication.


"When you hold resentment toward another, you are bound to that person or condition by an emotional link that is stronger than steel. Forgiveness is the only way to dissolve that link and get free."
- Catherine Ponder
Me-FWW. BH-wincing_at_light

Posts: 1594 | Registered: Jan 2010
starrysky
Member
Member # 14669
Default  Posted: 11:33 PM, May 30th (Thursday)

I don't have any issues with porn or a need for porn boundaries in our marriage, so I can't specifically speak to that but want to touch on this

That's exactly it. That IS how gradually you move towards healing self-esteem issues. You do things and remind yourself what you love about life

I can't tell you how truly important this is on the path to healing & self-fulfillment. In fact, finding time for myself to do things I enjoy, hell finding WHAT I enjoy has been an ongoing challenge for me..one that I am continuing to work on even 7 years after my A. In the past 3 months, I've started going to Yoga twice a week..1 hour, twice a week that is solely for me, for my benefit, for my healing & it has made ALL the difference in the world as far as self-fulfillment & self esteem issues go. In addition to that, I've began training for various 5K's in my area & that has helped too. I'm also a voracious reader, I have over 400 books on my Kindle, so I make sure I carve time out for that too.

Keep at it Aubrie, you are doing GREAT!


"The grass is not greener on the other side, it's greener where you water it"

Me(37)-FWW/BS
Him(36)-BH/WH The love of my life
2 Daughters: 15,11
Married 14 years Together 17 years
11 Month EA & PA
Beautifully Reconciled


Posts: 585 | Registered: May 2007
DixieD
Member
Member # 33457
Default  Posted: 11:51 PM, May 30th (Thursday)

I wasn't going to post because I respect Aubrie's wishes to not discuss this further, but I think she will forgive. I'm not going to ask her questions about her situation specifically, because she knows it better than anyone and she's stated pretty clearly.

Am I the only one that sees a problem with this that has nothing to do with Aub's self-image?

No, Gonna you aren't.

We are not talking porn addiction here. That is not a factor at all in the Aubrie world.

While I would tend to agree with you -- we honestly have no way of knowing that. We don't live in their house. Or in someone else's mind for that matter.

my best guess is that his initial reaction was a simple and common knee-jerk. could've been based in fear of how he imagined your response, could've been him not wanting you to think less of him...don't know, but what we do know is that he is definitely NOT opposed to porn, its unrealistic to expect that to change because you "said so".

Sure there is merit to that, except the same could be said for a WS who is confronted by their BS for texting someone. They often give a knee-jerk reaction. A lot of WS's break NC and hide it because their BS will think less of them. SI preaches all the time that a WS is expected to change and go NC with AP simply because their BS 'said so'.

Sometimes what we think is hidden is just not important to the person and they don't think of it as "hidden"---just not shared.

Lies by omission?

And like I said before, sometimes people lie to avoid anger in the moment.

Conflict avoidance?

Two things that need to be addressed and dealt with, because they may seem benign but as we've all learned, they are linked to poor coping mechanisms.

Porn is such a hot topic. Those who have lived through the destruction of it have a far different view than those who have not. The same could be said about affairs. People relate porn to their own belief system, just as people relate the gravity of affairs to their own belief system. Not everyone agrees.

I understand that open and honest communication is the key. That being said, I'm surprised at what appears to be some 'wayward thinking' thrown in here being justified for some reason. Maybe I'm not seeing it as others are, because I relate it through my own lens.

Keep up the good work, Aubrie.


Growing forward

Posts: 1736 | Registered: Sep 2011
wincings_sparkle
Member
Member # 27129
Default  Posted: 12:35 AM, May 31st (Friday)

We ask for patience from our BSes to deal with our own Waywardness yet if they have any issue it somehow becomes Desperately necessary to "Fix it" so the BS doesn't slide down some imagined slipper slope.

Lies by omission? Conflict avoidance?

Maybe, Maybe not. Sometimes it is just simply not talked about because it is not thought about. It doesn't mean that it must have a sinister cast.

You could also look at all the blame-shifting going on in the mini saga. It is vague blame shifting. Assigning shame and whatnot onto a BH that was not a Wayward. Crying red-flag and whatnot at a BH that has been nothing but supportive and loving toward his WS.

I'm surprised at what appears to be some 'wayward thinking' thrown in here being justified for some reason.

I'm surprised by the projection of "wayward thinking" being thrown around.

Just because as a WS we think a certain way does not mean that every one else does. Most BS do not think like a WS. Why would they?

Pah. I'm done. Good luck Aubrie. I hope you work it out to your mutual satisfaction and it becomes a non-issue between the two of you.


"When you hold resentment toward another, you are bound to that person or condition by an emotional link that is stronger than steel. Forgiveness is the only way to dissolve that link and get free."
- Catherine Ponder
Me-FWW. BH-wincing_at_light

Posts: 1594 | Registered: Jan 2010
DixieD
Member
Member # 33457
Default  Posted: 9:01 AM, May 31st (Friday)

Just because as a WS we think a certain way does not mean that every one else does. Most BS do not think like a WS. Why would they?

Because they are human.

Wincing, I respect your POV on a lot of things, but as you pointed out to Aubrie a few posts ago...

You know there are no free passes.

Even a loving and supportive BH can be made aware of a miss-step or a concern. A BH can have issues, that are his and his alone. You are assuming the shame is being assigned by a spouse here and not coming from within. Again, no way of knowing that.

After infidelity, people are hypervigilant about a lot of things, things that wouldn't have registered on their radar prior are looked at in a whole new light. Awareness does that. Ideas about things change on both sides.

Who said 'sinister'? I wasn't implying possible 'wayward thinking' was sinister. There is a difference between that and being cautiously aware of a slippery slope. And who determines whether someone else's determination of that slope is real or imagined, valid or invalid?

It seems like you got defensive because I questioned this. Why do I think that?

Pah. I'm done.

Like I said, we are seeing different things here from our own experiences.


Growing forward

Posts: 1736 | Registered: Sep 2011
Deeply Scared
Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 9:02 AM, May 31st (Friday)

Here is a gentle reminder to everyone...

Not all people that watch porn are addicts and/or preverts, please listen to what Aubrie is saying.

Support Aubrie's concerns and stop trying to re-adjust her words to fit something that isn't even there.

[This message edited by Deeply Scared at 9:03 AM, May 31st (Friday)]


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 196284 | Registered: May 2002
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 9:32 AM, May 31st (Friday)

Cheese and crackers people. *sigh*

Ya know, I get that each person is individual in their beliefs, likes, and dislikes. Everyone has their own feelings on every subject matter under the sun. However, when you're in a relationship, there's a little thing called respect of one another's feelings. Maybe it's a trivial example, but I wear certain articles of clothing because my husband likes it and I respect his preference and it's not a big deal to me to switch. Same thing for him. He has done and still does things that I prefer over his normal method. (Please don't start arguing whether that's respect, conflict avoidance, or codependency)

Whether we're talking the color of shoe laces or something as controversial as porn, the respect for one another's feelings is important and a factor whether we should/shouldn't do something. But because in this conversation it's *porn*, it's suddenly all my problem and I should just shut up and get over it and inspect absolutely nothing but my problem with it and whether I'm being completely honest with myself, my spouse, my prudishness, etc. I'm being honest. With myself and my husband.

Never mind the fact that he had negative feelings about our relationship, didn't speak up, internalized, and took his anger and frustration out on me by looking up porn. (Doesn't matter if he likes it or not. Doesn't matter if I like it or not.) He could have easily picked up the phone and called/texted a designer in his office. And I know beyond a shadow of a doubt, had he taken that route, the comments here would be vastly different and I wouldn't be told I was making up imaginary red flags or vaguely blame-shifting. But because it was "only" porn, it's a no biggie and boys will be boys. No concern or red flag should be appropriated. I should give him a chance, turn a blind eye, and move on.

If I were to lie to my husband and hide something after Dday, I would be hung by the toenails. And rightly so. Doesn't matter if it's chronic nose picking or porn. I expect my husband to respect me the same way I respect him. We are both holding one another accountable in an much more strict and sober way. Did I blow that up previously? Did I blow up our relationship with infidelity? Did I blow up our relationship with porn? Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

We have a new relationship now. We both know the terrible dangers in relationships of lack of communication and poor coping mechanisms. We both are working on communication, respect, and loyalty. So tell me again how him lying and hiding something because of his anger and frustration at me is healthy?

Bottom line, he said yet again last night, porn is not to be a part of our marriage. Doesn't matter if either party likes/enjoys it. We are mutually respecting one another's feelings and beliefs on it and refraining from that activity. Period. We're crystal clear on that. He has his own reasons for it. I have mine. Yes mine include my own negative experiences and insecurities about it. Is that healthy? Maybe not. I'm working on that. Not gonna happen overnight.

I don't *secretly* like porn. And I completely understand that it's "ok" if I do/don't/whatever. There's nothing to inspect there on that front. Don't like it. Period. During the A, I was physically sick when my AP started in on it. When he expressed disappointment that we didn't share that "common bond", I faked it. It's kinda easy to do when you're separated by over 300 miles. You can type, click, copy and paste anything and they're none the wiser. I lied to him about who I was, my name, location, and other things. What's the difference about lying about like/dislike of porn? Nothing.

The rules were still the same after my confession.

Were they really? Did you assume they were the same or verbally say "No more porn for either of us." or "No more porn for me." Leaving the door open for Mr. A.

Yes really. No open doors. For either of us.

I'll be frank. Right now I'm shaking in my shoes. Because I have a belief and a feeling, still forming, that is being challenged. My background is full of, "I'm the adult, you are the child, Shut up, don't think, and obey." then when I hit adulthood, I'm supposed to automatically know the right way to handle everything. I'm developing nerve. The ability to stand up for myself even when people don't agree with me, voraciously defend their POV, and push. I don't even have to reply to this thread anymore if I so wish. But I do because I am voicing what is in my head. I started this conversation and as nervous as I am, will say what I feel/think. I do find it curious that I'm told I'm angry when questioning a thought though. Does it have to be anger? Or standing up for what I believe in?

Subject closed. We'll figure the rest out on our own.

starrysky
Today was day two of getting up early and reading before the kids wake. (This is major because I'm so not a morning person) I like the stillness and quiet of the house, the relaxing moments before the kids wake and the house settles into noisy chaos. I feel more centered and calm. In only two days!? I'm still looking into other enriching things for "me" time. Work in progress.

SLHer
We both laughed at a "proper moniker" for Hubs. Mr. Aubrie just doesn't sound very masculine or cool and I kinda hate the term too, but we both agree it still beats the standard, clinical sound of, "My BS". I don't know if he'll register, even for a proper name. Maybe he and I will pow-wow later and find a new reference for him here.

Date night went exceptionally well, thank you. Even better, we held hands and conquered a trigger/fear together.

Thank you everyone for your thoughts, comments, POV, pushing, prodding, challenging. I really appreciate it.

[This message edited by Aubrie84 at 9:43 AM, May 31st (Friday)]


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6045 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
wincings_sparkle
Member
Member # 27129
Default  Posted: 7:36 PM, May 31st (Friday)

Aubrie,
Proud of you for standing up for yourself, your beliefs and tackling the hard subjects.

I'm totally done playing devils advocate. I am so glad to see the growth that you have gone through in your time on SI.

You and Mr. should both be well satisfied with the discussion and your decisions. You two rock.

BTW: I believe that porn really doesn't bring anything to a marriage. For me personally, I don't believe that it is a healthy outlet. I don't think it has to be an unhealthy outlet for some people though.

Blessings to you Aubrie.


"When you hold resentment toward another, you are bound to that person or condition by an emotional link that is stronger than steel. Forgiveness is the only way to dissolve that link and get free."
- Catherine Ponder
Me-FWW. BH-wincing_at_light

Posts: 1594 | Registered: Jan 2010
WalkinOnEggshelz
Member
Member # 29447
Default  Posted: 7:24 AM, June 1st (Saturday)

Aubrie,
Your POV regarding porn is crystal clear. I'm just just curious if the two if you have discussed his POV? I know he has agreed to not having porn as part of your relationship, but have you discussed his motives for looking at it in the first place?

There can be a couple of different ways if looking at this. One is that you used it heavily during your A. There could be a distinct possibility that as he is trying to work out his feelings regarding your A that he is trying to put those pieces together and make sense from it. That he is trying to understand what the big deal about it was. Why was it such an important part of your A. Perhaps wondering if you do secretly enjoy it. And without those talks you have recently been having not really having those answers.

The second is that he actually really enjoys it. Maybe he isn't being completely honest with you about it and that's on him. That's something he needs to work out.

I understand that porn gives you triggers and you don't like it. That's fine. But if he does, then that is what you need to be talking about.

We are very sexual beings by nature. Unfortunately there is a lot of shame and stigma wrapped up in our view points regarding it. I think it's very important to discuss what really turns your spouse on. And sometimes you can find going outside your comfort zone can be very freeing.

I don't agree with his initial reaction. But I think there is much more to discuss between the two of you. HT and I have adopted a saying in our relationship which is GGG: Good, Giving , and Game. But you can't be any of those without discussing openly and honestly about what you want or like. Not just you, but the Mr. too.

I used to have all kinds of insecurities about sex which closely related to my body issues. But once I was able to really let go and have an open mind about it things changed and our sex life became amazing! Don't project your feelings about porn/sex onto him. Find out how he really feels about it all and then go from there. Try to keep an open mind despite your own personal triggers. I'm not saying give in but be careful of digging in your heels.

Chances are that him looking at porn actually had nothing to do with you. I think it's pretty clear that its you he wants.


Me: WS 42
Him: BH 43(HoldingTogether)
M: 18years, together 22
2 Daughters: 13 and 10
D Day: 7/24/2010; TT to 10/17/10
If you keep asking people to give you the benefit of the doubt, they will eventually start to doubt your benefit.

Posts: 606 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 11:41 AM, June 1st (Saturday)

wincings, thank you very much for your advice, insight, and pushing my buttons to make me dig deeper. I appreciate everything you brought to the table here.

(That goes for everyone else too)

WOES, you have brought up some very valid points. Open mind, patience, communication. Got it.

Thanks again all.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6045 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
wincings_sparkle
Member
Member # 27129
Default  Posted: 12:49 PM, June 1st (Saturday)

Pushing buttons to make people dig deeper is what I do, it's like my job description.


"When you hold resentment toward another, you are bound to that person or condition by an emotional link that is stronger than steel. Forgiveness is the only way to dissolve that link and get free."
- Catherine Ponder
Me-FWW. BH-wincing_at_light

Posts: 1594 | Registered: Jan 2010
FR2012
Member
Member # 36345
Default  Posted: 3:01 PM, June 1st (Saturday)

Back in March, I watched some porn and tried to hide it from my husband. The reason I tried to hide it was because of embarrassment. I was brought up that anything like porn, touching yourself, sex or anything related to it was bad and you shouldn't do it or think about it, let alone watch it. So honestly, I did it out of curiousity. I never really have been interested in porn. So one morning as I was sitting on the couch, everyone was sleeping, I figured I would look at it and see what the big deal about porn was. Well my husband woke up, I panicked and deleted my internet history so he didn't find out about it. It was a really stupid thing to do on my part. I knew that it would damage my trust with him but at that time I didn't think about it. I didn't think about what it would do to our relationship, I didn't realize it would make my husband not trust me etc.

It was a really stupid thing to do on my part. But the main reason I hid it from him was because I was embarassed. I didn't want him to think little of me for watching something like that. I know that's not a good enough excuse.

The main thing though, you just need to talk to him about how it makes you feel. I can understand how it would deminish your self image. I can understand how it would make you feel self concious about yourself too. You need to tell Mr. Aubrie about it. About how you feel and what can be done to heal.

Never mind the fact that he had negative feelings about our relationship, didn't speak up, internalized, and took his anger and frustration out on me by looking up porn.

I understand how easy it is to have these feelings. I am a very closed off person. I only recently started opening up my feelings to my husband. I never spoke up to anyone, never told anyone my opinion or thoughts. I had a habit of internalizing everything.

You are right though, it is about respect. You need to respect each other's feelings. This is something that needs to be dealt with though. Not just forgot about and moved on from.

It is good to hear that you are learning to deal with the lack of communication in your relationship. It is always a good thing to learn. It is good that you have been able to identify what your underlying issues are as well. Hiding something because of his anger and frustration is not healthy at all and I am glad you know that.

I don't really know the point of what I am saying, I guess I just wanted to share some thoughts with you.

Take care Aubrie.

[This message edited by FR2012 at 3:09 PM, June 1st (Saturday)]


BH (him): 28 ~ FWW (me): 27
Together 9 years
2 kids
D-Day: April 19, 2012

Posts: 167 | Registered: Aug 2012
noescape
Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 6:05 AM, June 2nd (Sunday)

Just chiming in to say that this was a very helpful thread from all perspectives and great work you're doing there aub.

Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
Topic Posts: 42