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User Topic: Stuck
mephistopheles
New Member
Member # 27375
Default  Posted: 7:35 AM, May 29th (Wednesday)

I am a married SA four plus years into recovery with no major relapse or acting out in that time. By all intents and purposes we should have long ago entered into what Milton Magness calls the "Freedom Period" after about two and a half years. However, after four years of my IC, her IC, and MC, we are spinning our wheels with regard to moving forward in our relationship. This, then, is a cry for help. What are we doing wrong? What else should we be doing? Is it just a matter of more time needed to heal? I definitely do not subscribe to the co-dependent model for my wife but favor the trauma model. I'm in for the long haul but would like to have some expectations for a life together that goes beyond contrition and repentance. She's 58, I'm 62 and life is too damn short to live this way. I'm open to any and all suggestions with exception of throwing in the towel.

[This message edited by mephistopheles at 7:47 AM, May 29th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 19 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: NJ
mephistopheles
New Member
Member # 27375
Default  Posted: 7:50 AM, May 29th (Wednesday)

The stop sign was an accident as I didn't realize that the box was checked. I'll take advice from all quarters. Does anyone know how to remove it?

[This message edited by mephistopheles at 7:51 AM, May 29th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 19 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: NJ
Deeply Scared
Administrator
Member # 2
Default  Posted: 7:52 AM, May 29th (Wednesday)

I will remove it, please be more careful in the future when starting threads.


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 197227 | Registered: May 2002
hardlessons
Member
Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 9:25 AM, May 29th (Wednesday)

mephistopheles, first I would can your IC's and MC's. 4 years and you two are still standing around asking "What the hell?" is concerning. What are your goals in IC? Do you 2 talk about what is going on? With all that talk, has there been any action? Such as changes in behavior? Have you two been to a doctor to see if there is medical issues going on?


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 880 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
Card
Member
Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 10:29 AM, May 29th (Wednesday)

I'm sorry you're stuck.

It's a tough place to be and often appears to be no way out.

I say "appears", because there is always a way through where you are.

I would recommend going to "the healing library" and researching some marital recovery programs. These will help you deepen your love for each other and your marriage.

I used the Marriage Builders Program and found great success in breaking out of the mundane. There are several programs available if you search them out.


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
hatefulnow
Member
Member # 35603
Default  Posted: 10:54 AM, May 29th (Wednesday)

Stay the course.

Posts: 122 | Registered: May 2012
silverhopes
Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 11:24 AM, May 29th (Wednesday)

There's this great book called "The Seven Principles to Making Marriage Work". I haven't read all of it, but the part I'm up to already has some great activities to reconnect you and help remember and foster what you love about each other. Got the recommendation from here originally; it's by John Gottman.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.

Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.


Posts: 3901 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
mephistopheles
New Member
Member # 27375
Default  Posted: 3:49 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)

Thanks Silver and Card,
We've read many books but not those. I'll give them a shot. Thanks Hatefull, I'm in it for the haul.

Posts: 19 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: NJ
hardlessons
Member
Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 4:44 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)

dupe

[This message edited by hardlessons at 4:44 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)]


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 880 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
hardlessons
Member
Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 4:44 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)

Just for the record I am full o love, not hateful!


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 880 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
mephistopheles
New Member
Member # 27375
Default  Posted: 10:34 AM, May 30th (Thursday)

Sorry Full. Well, we had another major meltdown last night. After spending a wonderfull Memorial Day weekend at the beach with another couple, we spent Wednesday dealing with PTSD. We seem to go in two week cycles. I've been trying to anticipate them. Last night I made a nice dinner with her favorite desert but something triggered her. A week ago she asked me to post our problem on this web site in the hope that some sage advice might help us. I hesitated and asked my IC if it would be a good idea. She didn't think so. My wife has been using it as her major source of counsel and venting for years seeing her IC rarely and attending SANON even less frequently. It seems that most of her support is here. I was afraid to post fearing that if I stated something that she thought didn't truly represent our situation from her perspective, that would be triggering. She assured me that was not a problem and she would not be reading my posts. Well, the trigger last night was the four year time line. She claims it is more like one year. Sure there have been issues during that time. Recovery is not a perfect linear process. But I have not relapsed or acted out in that time and have been actively involve in my program and couseling. I have said things in my addictive defensive posture during a couple of these emotional onslaughts that have not been helpful and each one of these mistakes retraumatizes her and takes us back to day one. I try but sometimes get worn down and make mistakes. I guess the answer is to not make mistakes.

[This message edited by mephistopheles at 10:36 AM, May 30th (Thursday)]


Posts: 19 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: NJ
Josephine01
Member
Member # 38511
Default  Posted: 10:45 AM, May 30th (Thursday)

Oh mephistopheles,

I really have no great advice I am sorry. But I am a BS who wants to let you know that it is good to see someone who is really trying to R their marriage. I want to wish you both the best of luck.


Me, 42 BS
H, 61 WH
2 boys 19 and 15 years old
Married 24 years

Posts: 314 | Registered: Feb 2013
mephistopheles
New Member
Member # 27375
Default  Posted: 10:52 AM, May 30th (Thursday)

Thanks Jose.

Posts: 19 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: NJ
mephistopheles
New Member
Member # 27375
Default  Posted: 8:52 AM, May 31st (Friday)

Well, we seemed to have weathered this storm. We will be working through some Milton Magness routines and procedures, particulary what he calls the FASTT Check in procedure. It seems that all the little triggers build up until, for lack of an emotional safety valve, they explode in one of these meltdowns. Hopefully, having a routine for talking about our issues, it will allow the pressure to be released a little at a time at a lower level of emotionality and vitriol. I'm hoping that is part of the problem and not that she's trolling for pain and triggers on SI. I can see why my IC thinks that SI could, in addition to providing a place to vent and seek friendship and advice, a font of triggering stimuli. Hopefully, that is not the case. Well it's going up to 93 today so, with the the lawn done and the house cleaned, I'm spending the rest of my Friday on the Delaware River in Mein Kleines Segelschiff. Have a great day all.

[This message edited by mephistopheles at 8:58 AM, May 31st (Friday)]


Posts: 19 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: NJ
mephistopheles
New Member
Member # 27375
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, May 31st (Friday)

Dear Card,
Marriage Builders looks like it has some great stuff. Thank you again.

Posts: 19 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: NJ
hardlessons
Member
Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 10:49 AM, May 31st (Friday)

I've been trying to anticipate them.

Stop doing that, will not help and makes you walk on eggshells. You need to be consistent, period. You waiting for the big trigger just amps you up and then when it happens your a deer stuck in the headlights again.

Sure there have been issues during that time. Recovery is not a perfect linear process.

We waywards shouldn't sound this flippant. We don't decide the R process much, we support the BS and heal ourselves.

Marriage builders, Milton, all that stuff is great, but that wont fix YOU. The marriage wasn't the problem. You and your choices were.

What are you doing to fix you and the why's that allowed you to make these horrible choices?


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 880 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
mephistopheles
New Member
Member # 27375
Default  Posted: 3:41 PM, May 31st (Friday)

Thanks Hardlessons, you're absolutely right. I see my own IC, work steps in a 12 step fellowship, and have become 100% tranparent in my dealings with my wife. I have a GPS on my phone and she has all my passwords and account numbers so she can see what happens to every penny of our income. I'm trying to be supportive and have been relapse free for four years. It is so worth it to feel real again and to leave the fantasy life behind. I had this wierd flash last week while painting a fence (a chore I've avoided for three years) and realized that I was happy and enjoying the mindless task while listening to the birds chattering at me. I'd have grumbled and complained the whole time in my past life.

Posts: 19 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: NJ
hardlessons
Member
Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 3:51 PM, May 31st (Friday)

So if all of that is in place, either your BS
1. hasn't healed enough yet and needs more time.
2. can't or doesn't want to heal, for some it is a deal breaker and either don't want to admit it or feel they can't do anything about it.

or
3.She doesn't feel safe in the M regardless of how well life is going for you.

Have you talked to her about this?


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 880 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
mephistopheles
New Member
Member # 27375
Default  Posted: 4:07 PM, May 31st (Friday)

I think she needs more time and my big inappropriate mouth keeps resetting her reovery clock back. The more I mess up in this regard, the longer it's going to take.

Posts: 19 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: NJ
hardlessons
Member
Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 6:26 PM, May 31st (Friday)

I see my own IC, work steps in a 12 step fellowship, and have become 100% tranparent in my dealings with my wife. I have a GPS on my phone and she has all my passwords and account numbers so she can see what happens to every penny of our income. I'm trying to be supportive and have been relapse free for four years.

So with all this, with all that hard work why do you still keep putting your foot up your own ass? I know for me when I start running off at the mouth I have something going on, something I am not dealing or coping with well.


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 880 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
Card
Member
Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 5:32 PM, June 1st (Saturday)

Hardlessons,

Marriage builders, Milton, all that stuff is great, but that wont fix YOU. The marriage wasn't the problem. You and your choices were.

Though I agree with you when you state that his choices were the problem..... I don't believe your statement about marital recovery programs is accurate.

The program My wife and I work, "Marriage Builders", DOES force me to work on me and my issues. In great depth, I might add.

nuf said!


Meph, One of the tools my wife and I implemented was to arrange an allotted time each day, for 15-50 minutes, to discuss anything affair related or triggering her.
After that allotted time we stopped those painful conversations and either cuddled, did something fun, went on a walk while holding hands or anything that would help alleviate the pain!
This time period gradually changed to three times a week, and then we changed it to one time a week.
We still have scheduled time but rarely need it now.

It helped prevent the top blowing and gave us time, scheduled time, to be open and transparent about her questions and our feelings. It also taught us to wait for that time before making comments that could cause pain.


It worked for us.
It may be a possible plan for you???

IMO, No Plan for success = no success.


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
Card
Member
Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 5:43 PM, June 1st (Saturday)

Out of curiosity, are you willing to share what 12 step program you're attending.

I recently celebrated 30 years of recovery from drug addiction and alcoholism. I owe a great deal of gratitude to AA & NA for this.


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
mephistopheles
New Member
Member # 27375
Default  Posted: 3:45 PM, June 3rd (Monday)

Dear Card,
Thanks for the advice. Your check-in procedure sounds like a great plan for reducing steam before for the boilers blow. We've decided to do something similar. You're right that these things cannot be left to serendipity and must be scheduled and structured for a while withground rules and time limits. Something we have not been doing. I attend SAA but many of our members also have come from other fellowships including yours as many of us are involed with multiple forms of compulsive and self-destructive behavior.

Posts: 19 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: NJ
mephistopheles
New Member
Member # 27375
Default  Posted: 7:21 AM, June 10th (Monday)

There we go pretty much on schedule ... the two week melt-down. I don't know if it was the Steven Sondheim play we saw on Saturday night, the funeral we attended on Sunday or something else. She's taught me not to ask, that its her right to go off on me whenever she needs to for what ever reason. So, seemingly out of the blue my wife went off on me on Sunday night about how I wasted her whole life and why didn't I just leave her ... Well, I'm deffinitely crossing Steven Sondheim off the list. Don't ever take a betrayed spouse to see "A Little Night Music." It's not about Mozart. It's more a farcical Victorian celebration of infedelity, the music sucks and the dialog is stupid and superficial. There's not one song with a tune you can remember much less hum after two hours and forty minutes. My fault for not doing my research. We left at intermission.

[This message edited by mephistopheles at 7:34 AM, June 10th (Monday)]


Posts: 19 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: NJ
putonahappyface
Member
Member # 30269
Default  Posted: 8:33 AM, June 10th (Monday)

Meph,

BS here, married to an SA. I'm 3 years out from discovering his two affairs; 7 months from discovering the SA (porn addiction). My SA goes to SA every week, & sees a CSAT. He hasn't had a single slip, not one.

You all seem to be able to identify the source of her triggers, but I'll tell you that sometimes she just won't know. She doesn't need you to analyze or locate the source. Just hold her & tell her you're sorry. There are days where there's a pit of anxiety in my stomach & I'm just not sure why. You have to agree that staying married to an SA is taking a leap of faith. It comes with a lot of fear over what the future will hold. In many ways it's giving control over to someone who once was very out of control. I too attend S-anon. I know that I control my own happiness & I can't control or cure my SA. But a marriage is a partnership, & like it or not, one partner's actions & mental health affects the other, & vice versa.

I don't have any answers to this really. I would hope that her meltdowns will decrease as enough time passes to let safe, secure feelings seep in & push out the uneasy "waiting for the other shoe to drop" feelings. You probably spent years developing your addictions, so expect there to be years of consequences. Continue to do everything possible to reinforce to her that you are a safe choice! And understand that it may take a long time for her to work through the stages of grief. She's grieving the marriage she thought she had, married to the man she thought you were. Hopefully you're a better man now, but you're a different man, if that makes sense.


BS (me) - 50; SAWH- 51 (hurtherbadly)
Married 26 yrs
2 DS - 21&17
Dday 6/4/2010. 2 EA/PA
11/15/12 update: discovered porn addiction
4 years out: M is strong; FWH is a new man :)


Posts: 720 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Bluegrass
Topic Posts: 25