SurvivingInfidelity.com Forums
General
User Topic: Is it happening again?!
jayzee08
New Member
Member # 39444
Default  Posted: 5:30 PM, June 4th (Tuesday)

Hello...this is my first post of this forum after it was recommended to me by a good friend that has also been going through a similar situation.

Anyways, here is my story in a nutshell. Three years ago I found about about the A my WS and the OP. They were co-workers in different cities that meet in person at a common conference. From there the A started with instant messages, text messages, and phone calls. Once I discovered the EMA I immediately confronted my WS about it and she confused it to me. It took about 3 attempts at NC for her to finally stop talking to the OP. During this same time we started going to a therapist. It helped a lot for me because I was a able to vent frustrations I had with the situation in a neutral ground. I found my WS was not a receptive to the therapy at first because she was still having contact for the first few weeks of therapy. After much conversation and therapy we decided to keep fighting and try to make things work.

It has been 3 years since I discovered the EMA liked I said above and things have been increasing getting better in the relationship except for one thing on my part. I choose to forgive me WS for having the EMA but I don't know if I ever really forgot about it either. Since the EMA took place I still have tendencies to question who she is texting, emailing, calling, etc. I have gotten jealous or suspicious of other male co-workers that she hangs out with because of what happened in the past.

With regards to that here is the current situation. My WS has started talking to a new male "friend" at work recently. She has been open about it with me telling me his name and a little of his history and usually their conversations topics. At first I thougth nothing of it until she went of town for business in early April (she was actually out of town for our anniversary). Anyways this was one of the longest time she was going to be away from home since the EMA occured. While she was gone I got very insecure that she might try to contact the OP even though it had been 3 years. I got so paranoid that I decided to pull the cell phone records to see if any phone calls or text messsages had been exchanged. To my relief I did not see communication with the original OP, however I did see on of all nights our Wedding Anniversary a barge of text messages going back and forth between her and the new "male" co-worker. Now this new friend, I will call him "K" was NOT on the business trip. He was back home.

That was the start of it so I found it odd that she had been texting K back and forth all night along with me at the same time. I debated wether or not to confront her with this information. After talking to her on the phone I first asked if K was there on the trip and she said No. So that made me think why is she texting some male back home while on a business trip and it was not during business hours. Against my better judgement I confronted her with the information and she flat out denied anything was going on. She said he was just a friend and that she was texting him to "joke with him" because she was tipsy from going out to drink with co-workers while on the trip. That set off red flag #1 for me.

When she got back from the trip things were a little tense at first because she got angry about me accusing her. We discussed and I told her it was not apporiate and let her know how it made me feel. She agreed and said it was not on purpose and that she was sorry for the texts. She even let me see her cell phone and I read the texts and they were harmless jokes. Nothing sexual or anything that could be taken that way. Anyways I had that flag in the back of my mind but for the most part I just kept on moving forward. Well then as the weeks have gone on the amount of communication has increased between her and K. At first it was just converstations at work or over IM during work but then then the occassional text messages, and then phone calls.

Typically my wife will call me on her way home from work each night as I get home first and she hates sitting in traffic bored. I don't mind the converstations at all we usually talk about our days at work and other misc. business. Anyways 2 weeks ago on Thursday she went out after work for drinks with co-workers to celebrate a friend that retired from the company. She called K and invited him to the bar as well and he declined because he was already half way home. After leaving the bar she called him and they talked for 40 minutes on the phone while she drove home. She didn't call me that night because it was a day I typically go to the gym after work. I got home early and was outside mowing the lawn when she pulled up. She was already off the phone but she did tell me she talked to him on her way home and that he invited "us" (meaning me and my wife) to dinner that night but my wife declined. I was angry already at the fact she told me she was on the phone with me but then when I checked her cell phone and I saw the call lasted 40 minutes I was really upset. My inital thought was what the hell could they possibly have talked about for 40 minutes. To me things were escalating too fast for just "friends". She again told me there was nothing gone on and she had nothing to hide. I once again believed her but she also told me she was getting very frustrated with me accusing her all the time of stuff. Like I said before I have "given her the business" over the past 3 years about most of her friends with male co-workers.

We talked a few more times over Memorial Day weekend and we seemed to move past the issues with K or maybe because they didn't communicate with each other that entire weekend. Tuesday rolls around and my wife texts me while at work on Tuesday asking if I would want to go out on Wednesday night to watch the NHL Playoffs with her and K. The only problem is she knew ahead of time I was busy Wednesday night because my boss was in town and taking me and her entire staff out to dinner that night. I agreed at first for her to go and I would meet them after my dinner with my boss but as the day went on it ate away at me more and more that I don't want them going out alone together. That night we once again talked and I told her it made me uncomfortable because I still haven't met K and I don't feel rigth about you going out alone with him. She told me I was paranoid and again they were just friends and she was returning his offer to go out to dinner from the previous week. I let her know how it made me feel and I left it at that and said I will be there when I can. So I went to work that day with a knot in my stomach all day long thinking about their meeting that night. I was happily distracted by my boss and co-workers at dinner so I didn't think much about it until the long ride back home from the office to the bar where they were meeting. I walked in to a big hug and kiss from my wife and I shook hands with K. We talked a little bit but he was way into the hockey game that was on TV. When we did talk he didn't really look me in the eyes at all and was constantly on his cell phone texting his buddies about the game.

I couldn't get a good vibe either way and since they were together I am sure they knew not to act "weird" around me. It then turns out he is sick on Thursday and Friday so they barely talked except for a few text messages on Friday asking if was out sick again and if he was feeling better. There was no communication over the weekend that I was aware based on what my wife told me. Yesterday they were both back at work for the first time in several days so I know they talked a few times during the day based on what she told me. One thing I forgot to mention is that my wife and I have google chat on our work computers so we sometimes IM each other during the day through google chat. Anyways I noticed she was offline for about a good hour to and hour and half yesterday afternoon. At the time I didn't think much about it but I asked her about it when she got home last night and she told me she went to her mom's place to check her mail while her mom was on vacation. My immediate thought was she brought K with and that maybe something happened. I bit my tongue and didn't say anything. Later in the evening she asked me if I was OK and I said "No, no I am not." I told her how all of this recent contact with K was making me feel and that is sending up red flags to 3 years ago. She didn't really respond at all but she did pull me over to her and hugged me. After that we went upstairs to go to bed and noticed she didn't take off her underwear which she usually does at night to change into her pajamas. I felt that to be odd. This morning she jumped out of bed first (which rarely happens) and took a shower. I got up and went to throw my pajams in the dirty laundry and I noticed her underwear from yesterday were under a pile my clothes in my eyes buried. Again I thought that is odd throw my clothes on top of the underwear. So I picked them up....I apologize for the TMI ahead of time but there was a stain in them. I didn't know if that was common or not but my whole body was shaking with fear that it was not a female stain. I debated while she was in the shower to ask about it or not. I picked up the underwear 3 or 4 times and put them back down. She got out of the shower and finally I decided to ask her if this was a "c*m stain." My thought was she had the time and oppurtunity to fool around with him yesterday at her mom's place if he did go with her. She of course denied it and was furious. We didn't speak to each other the rest of the morning and haven't spoken at all today except for one quick email but she was clearly still pissed by the tone of her language in the email.

My question is am I being paranoid about all this? Can they be just friends. The similaries between the first incident and now are very close. I fear my marriage may be over because that trust that she broke over 3 years ago never got fixed or was was being mended was shatter again by me accusing her and her making decisions that didn't seem apporiate
to me when dealing with K.

I apologize for how long this post is but I had a lot on my chest and mind that I needed to get off. I can clarify anything if people have more questions. I just don't know what the future holds and if there is something to be alarmed about with this new OP.


Posts: 7 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Aurora, IL
rivenheart
Member
Member # 13838
Default  Posted: 5:39 PM, June 4th (Tuesday)

Have you still got the underwear? If so, send them to a lab for testing.

Your W should be willing to allay your fears by limiting contact with the co-worker strictly to what is required for work. If she isn't, well then, you know how she prioritizes that friendship vis a vis your marriage.

Sorry you're here. Trust your instincts. Keep digging and don't tip your hand about any testing/snooping/researching you do.


rivenheart ~ heartriven
Me: BW, 36 at d-day; WH, 40

Posts: 1037 | Registered: Mar 2007
RockyMtn
Member
Member # 37043
Default  Posted: 5:47 PM, June 4th (Tuesday)

I don't think you're being paranoid.

Worst case scenario: is is already a full-blown EMA

Best case scenario: they are just friends. But even with this "best case" she's being incredibly disrespectful. The majority of folks here would say that she just shouldn't be having this type of close friendship with a male after having an A. Some people make exceptions for 'friends of the marriage' or childhood friends - but new/co-worker friends? Not typical. Losing the ability to have close friendships with those of the opposite sex is a consequence of having an A. And, if she's going to CHOOSE to have male friends anyway, despite what she has done to you/your M, she sure as hell shouldn't get all huffy puffy and pissed at you when you suspect something - not a good thing.

Likely scenario, in my mind: This may not be a full-blown A yet - but it is headed in that direction.

How do you feel about this? Even if he is just a legit good guy friend? Is that OK with you? You need to decide that. Because if it isn't OK with you - then that's a boundary you need to draw.

If you want to find out if this is an A or "just friends" - I'd stop pestering her about it. She'll start hiding things from you and make it harder to discover. Lay low, watch for signs, keep those phone records close, maybe install a VAR.


Me, BS, 30s
Him, WS, 30s, Steppenwolf
Kids: Yep
D-Day 1: September 2011, 6 week EA
D-Day 2: January 2013, discovered EA was a PA; there was another PA in 2010. All TT.
Goal = serenity.

Posts: 667 | Registered: Oct 2012
Kelany
Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 5:50 PM, June 4th (Tuesday)

Even if nothing has happened, their "friendship" is completely inappropriate. There is no way my FWH would have a close female friend, go out for drinks, games, texting, etc. Bad horrible boundaries. She's way crossing the lines.


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
still2suspicious
Member
Member # 31722
Default  Posted: 5:53 PM, June 4th (Tuesday)

Oh jayzee08, I am so sorry.

I could feel my heart starting to race as I read further and further.

Red flags!! Trust your gut.

Sounds like the first EMA was pretty much "swept under the rug"??

You have a right to be suspicious.

And the fact that she keeps gas-lighting you doesn't bode well either.

I am so sorry you are here. BUT you have landed in the best spot possible to get thru this.

Do you know what YOU want? Requirements for R (if you want to R)? It's OK if you don't. Take your time. Read here. Breathe.

What questions can we answer for you?

Sending strength.


Me: BS
Him: WH
DDay: LTEA

Posts: 1284 | Registered: Apr 2011 | From:
NoraLee
Member
Member # 37922
Default  Posted: 6:06 PM, June 4th (Tuesday)

I don't know whether your wife is having another affair. What I do know is that this relationship with K is causing you pain and hurting your marriage. Many BS's on SI place a boundary for reconciliation - no more friends of the opposite sex. Ever. Period. Your W once had the chance to have male friends and she blew it. If she cared at all about the pain and persitent scar she's given you, she would end the friendship.

You deserve to feel safe in your marriage. So if K turns out to be nothing, sit down and draw up new boundaries and ground rules. A good start would be to read "Not Just Friends"

About K. There's enough going on to make you suspicious. So buy a VAR. (voice activated recorder) and hide it in her car. It will at the least capture the content of her phone conversations. Do you know anybody she works with? Office gossip - while tawdry and exaggerated - is usually based on truth. Have you come straight out and asked her to stop any non work related contact with K? If its just a friendship and a new one at that, it shouldn't be hard for her to comply. Are you financially capable of hiring a PI for a week to watch them at work (leaving for lunch etc)

I'm sorry you're here Jayzee. But it's the best place to be if you're affected by infidelity - which you have been before - and possibly again.


Me - BW - 44
Him - FWH - 42
Married 16 years
D day - 1/2 truth - July 2012
Full disclosure - August 2012
EA with skanky waitress coworker
3 kids - 14, 16, 21
In R

Posts: 791 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Canada
TXBW68
Member
Member # 36456
Default  Posted: 6:18 PM, June 4th (Tuesday)

Trust your gut on this one!!!

My husband used to be "just friends" with many women. Everyone knew about me and the kids. I trusted him completely. Little did I know...they didn't care that he was married with kids.

OW#2 was his lesbian best friend. Our kids spent the night with each other. We spent New Year's with her and her partner. OW#1, 3 and 4 were all "just friends" too. He chatted with them in forums, via text, phone calls, etc. #4 turned into a full blown EA, and he left me for her.

It sounds like your WW has no boundaries. My husband didn't understand his lack of boundaries until I read some of his chats to these chicks out loud to him - and then made him read "Not Just Friends". I have told him that if I ever find another indiscretion he is out, not questions asked, and we will divorce.

It sounds like you need to do some soul-searching of your own. Your gut is most likely right. Now, the question is what are you willing to put up with? Where is your line in the sand for your WW? It may be time to have the hard conversation with her, spelling out exactly what you need from her and the consequences if she does not comply.

((hugs))


Me (45) WH (42),2 boys 14 & 11
M 18yrs T 22yrs
Separated 10 months (4/12 to 2/13)
Final Total - #1/#2 ONS and #3/#4 EA/PA - left me for #4, didn't know about #2 and 3 until he moved back home
We are solidly in R now

Posts: 788 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: Dallas, TX
doesitgetbetter
Member
Member # 18429
Default  Posted: 6:21 PM, June 4th (Tuesday)

Sorry, I replied to the other thread, and all the action is here. So here's a copy of what I posted:

First, I'm so sorry you are here!
Second, you say you forgave her but never forgot.... dude, you'll NEVER forget that your spouse cheated on you, so wipe that out of your brain as an option.

Third, you didn't really talk much about what you guys did to repair the marriage, and what she did to repair herself, from the first A. Did it just pretty much get swept under the rug and not talked about?

It sounds like there weren't any boundaries put in place. You keep telling her what you don't like, she keeps telling you not to worry, and then does what she wants anyway. Where are the boundaries? It's never too late to set up boundaries.

In my opinion, she lost the right to have male "friends" the day she cheated. Period. There is no reason she needs to be meeting a man alone unless it's you, ever! She needs to work hard to protect the marriage that she tried so hard to destroy with her cheating. She should never even consider spending time alone with a male, much less building a relationship with a male coworker which is how her other affair started. IF she did do any work on herself after the first A, I would say it didn't stick.

I'm over 5 years out from my H's infidelity, and there is no chance that he would ever even TRY to have a female friend. We have couple's friends, we invite the husband and wife over, but if the wife ever asks what time dinner is or something, he always refers them to me and refuses to engage any woman in any fashion. And these are our friends, friends we've had for a very long time. This is how strong his boundaries are about other people. He also won't sit near another woman, he won't stand close to one, and he always wraps himself around me when we are in public to show that he's taken. Firm boundaries are in place here, and I think that's what's lacking in your M.


DDay - Dec '07
Me - BS
Him - FWS
Us - Committed
May 18, 2010 - I forgave him fully!
"Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction." Isaiah 48:10

Posts: 3859 | Registered: Feb 2008
LA44
Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 6:27 PM, June 4th (Tuesday)

Hi Jayzee, what NoraLee said re: the book Not Just Friends.
A good read whether K is a friend or not.

Incidentally, my H used to leave his luggage unpacked for days following a conference - I suppose now it was a way of letting his clothes sit in our home - if they were in the laundry on top, I would have noticed perfumey/woman's scent.

Follow your gut. Wish I had done so far sooner then I did.

Come back for support.

Best of luck.
LA


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2287 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
Ladyogilvy
Member
Member # 31558
Default  Posted: 7:15 PM, June 4th (Tuesday)

Even in marriages where there has been no infidelity, time with opposite sex friends is time taken away from the spouse. Before infidelity, there may be times when it is acceptable. After infidelity, never, unless it is strictly business related.


Me: BW a youthful 49
Him: alcoholic, sober now, WH 56
Married 19 years
Two sons, 16 & 17 years old
DD? He's still keeping secrets and only admits to what I have indisputable
evidence of... the $2000 earrings he bought her for x-mas.

Posts: 1512 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: California
Ostrich80
Member
Member # 34827
Default  Posted: 7:56 PM, June 4th (Tuesday)

My opinion...I think its the beginning of what could be an ea. My ws talked about ow all the time....until he made a move with her then it was like she vanished from the face of the earth. Those texts to him...not good. You not having much contact while she was away...not good. I hope I'm wrong.


BS..me
WS..him
Been with him over half my life
4kid
DD1 10-01-09 DD2 02-12-12 discovered it never ended
OW..nothing special. Just your average skank
Status..#$%@????

Posts: 5039 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: midwest
jayzee08
New Member
Member # 39444
Default  Posted: 8:36 PM, June 4th (Tuesday)

Wow guys...I am overwhelmed by the amount of responses so fast!

Let me add some more details to the picture that may help.
We have been together for 13 years and have been married for 7 of those years. We meet in college and she is my first and only relationship. I have always been a shy, overweight guy and she was the first woman to see past my shyness and helped me greatly increase my low self esteem I had at that time.

First, the first EMA was not swept under the rug. We went to marriage therapy for about 9 months starting from discovery day. At that point the therapist basically said what happens next is in our hands. We talked as great length about what caused the A and why we were both unhappy. I made what I felt were great changes to my behavior and became more conscience of my actions, thoughts, and words. She was upset at my lack of effort around the house and being selfish. She felt I was very lazy and didn't offer to help with household chores which I completely agreed with. I'll admit I am a lazy person but I have made great strides in that area over the past 3 years. As far as me being selfish she felt that she bent of backwards in the first few years of our relationship and then marriage to help me and do things for me but when it came time for me to reciprocate I rarely did. Until this things were brought out in therapy I never realized these things and I suddenly became very aware of them and worked very hard to change for me and the marriage.

On her side of things I felt her communication was very poor with me. I felt she got upset about a lot of things with me over the years but bottled it all up and got more and more frustrated with me until it led to get what she was missing in our marriage from the OP.

I guess one thing we never did was establish boundaries after the first EMA. Looking back at it that is something we definitely should have done. With regards to our recent discussions she has told me that she has always been a strong independent person and she feels I am very codependent on her. She feels I would have a hard time being on my own. To be honest I have never been alone in my entire life. I lived at home until 18 years old with my parents. I then went to college and lived with friends/roommates with 4 years and then I meet my wife. I lived with her ever since.
I did read on another forum on this site about codependency anonymous. I am thinking about going to a meeting in my area to see what is it all about. Honestly if the marriage is done I need to work on myself so I am stronger person going forward. I also have already made an appointment with a therapist as well. I figured I need to work on me regardless of what happens with the M.

Anyways back to the current situation, over the past 3 years our relationship has been very very good until late. After the EMA our sex life improved greatly we talked about having kids but we decided to wait until we were more comfortable with our relationship. About a year ago we started trying but have been unsuccessful so far. Even as all this stuff has been going on with K we have been going to doctor appointments to for infertility. Our sex life has still been good in fact we still had a great session over the weekend.

What doesn't make sense with me if she is having an EMA with K or it is the start of it why be so open about it. It is not like she is hiding stuff. She has told me she has text him or talked to him on the phone. She even had me meet him. Why go through all that is she was having another A? I mean usually A require secrecy and privacy which is what she did the first time around. Also, I made have painted a bad picture of well. They are not txting and calling each other everyday. The texting and calling has been sporadic but it has happened. She said even their IMs at work during the day are only a few minutes here and there. For what I found out the first time it was definitely not a part time thing. They talked all day long everyday.

I am very conflicted with what my gut is telling me. I completely agree with most of you saying she is disrespecting boundaries and hurting me but at the same time I feel like a hypocrite because I have a very good female friend as well. That is all we are good friends. I know my boundaries and I would never cross those lines my wife did. Is it possible my relationship is effecting my wife and that is why she feels she needs to have this friendship with K?

The biggest problem she has with me currently is that she feels I keep holding the cheating over her head. I still give her the evil eye when she picks up her phone, ask who she is talking to you, I give her a hard time for trying to make plans with friends or to go out after work, etc. Basically she feels I am controlling her and smothering her and still don't trust her even after 3 years and this was even before K entered the picture. This goes back to the codependency. I am not happy unless she is home next to my side. I will admit I have had my moments of insecurity over the course of the entire 3 years but is has intensified over the past few weeks with me finding out more and more about this friendship with K.

I have rambled on again for quite some time but I feel this to be a good place to vent. With regards to the PI,voice recorder, or lab work I feel if I need to go to that extent what is use. I might as well just end if I have to that length to find out if something is going on. I have even given her an "out" with our discussions over the past week or so. I have told her point blank...if you having an affair, feel like you might want to have an affair or have any type of feelings for K just tell me know and we'll know where we both stand and we can both move on. She again said no there is nothing going on. The night she went out alone with him and then I meet them afterwards she left a note on my pillow that I read when we got home. She said she is sorry she got mad at me and just wants to make me happy and it going to work on making changes to herself.

She is on her way home now from her golf league so I should probably wrap this up for the night. I am sure we will discuss what happened this morning. I am not sure what the future holds or what decision either of us will make. I will keep everyone updated on my situation. Thanks for all the great comments and support. I look forward to my support from everyone


Posts: 7 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Aurora, IL
NoMorDeceit
Member
Member # 23547
Default  Posted: 9:37 PM, June 4th (Tuesday)

Jayzee,

The bottom line is: The friendship makes you unhappy and insecure(and RIGHTLY so) and makes you feel anxious and accusatory.

This should be a no-brainer for your wife who was given the GIFT of your willingness to try to reconcile with her...K should be gone...gone...gone. Done. No more. Period. Amen. THAT is remorse, that is doing ANYTHING to make your BS whole again. She has horrible boundaries. She pretty much doesn't care how you feel. She left you a note saying she wanted to make you happy...yet she went out ALONE with him...the thing that makes you unhappy...really? Gaslighting. Bigtime.

You are being snowed. I'd bet the farm on it. Have you ever heard of hiding in plain sight?? Many, many, many WS's introduce the AP to their spouses, hell some even encourage them to become best friends. She is getting something from this relationship with him that she should be getting or giving only to you, her husband. If she wasn't getting something out of it, she'd drop him like a hot potato the moment you her husband who she destroyed once already gave any indication that this "friendship" made him even a tad uncomfortable.

I'm torn between telling you to dig deeper and put a VAR and GPS in her vehicle or flat out telling her it is NC with K and no more male friends or it is divorce...maybe both.

Be strong. You deserve better.

[This message edited by NoMorDeceit at 9:37 PM, June 4th (Tuesday)]


FBS, been through the D marathon too.
Many D Days in April 2009
Multiple affairs, LTAs, and many OWs
Reconciled... There is hope! :)


Posts: 522 | Registered: Apr 2009
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 10:32 PM, June 4th (Tuesday)

My guess about your not being happy unless she's home by your side is that it has very little to do with any 'codependency' issues you may have and everything to do with the fact that your WW's boundaries are fucking *shit* and she's an affair waiting to happen.

Your WW's outside interaction with this man needs to stop. Period.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8005 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
Ostrich80
Member
Member # 34827
Default  Posted: 1:18 AM, June 5th (Wednesday)

Sounds like your ws does a whole lot of talking to reassure you but the actions don't match. She went out alone with him? Am I reading this correctly? Then u met them? This seems odd to me. Food for thought here...my ws was on an athletic board as well as ow. He talked me into running for a position on the board a few months after, she was still on it. That was one of the reasons I doubted she was the ow because I couldn't imagine he would want me there. Later I figured out it was his way of making me feel comfortable with her being in the picture. He could talk to her without me being suspicious.


BS..me
WS..him
Been with him over half my life
4kid
DD1 10-01-09 DD2 02-12-12 discovered it never ended
OW..nothing special. Just your average skank
Status..#$%@????

Posts: 5039 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: midwest
itainteasy
Member
Member # 31094
Default  Posted: 7:11 AM, June 5th (Wednesday)

This is just my opinion..

1) your wife's affair was with a co worker. You have every right to not trust her around her co workers. If this was my relationship, and my R the first absolute LAW of my marriage would be NO FRIENDSHIPS WITH CO WORKERS OF THE OPPOSITE SEX. EVER. EVER EVER.
(and likely no outside of work friendships with members of the opposite sex, UNLESS they were friends of the marriage, or friends of mine that I trusted. NO solo hanging out, and NO texting/phone calls though.)

2) Get and read "Not Just Friends", you read it and she NEEDS to read it.

3) She needs to work on her boundaries.

4) ANY relationship outside of your marriage should not be the primary one. Meaning that if you're hurt/bothered/angered by a friendship she shouldn't have the friend. It goes both ways---if she was hurt/bothered/angered by one of your friendships you should drop that friend, too.


At the very least it sounds like your wife is having an EA with K. Is it possible that it has turned physical? Sure. Like another poster said---if you still have the panties with the suspicious stain, send it off to a lab for testing.

Has your wife ever had individual counseling? IMO, IC would help her define her boundaries, and help her figure out why she was able to cross the lines into cheaterland.

You should probably get marriage counseling again, as well. But, find a therapist who has experience with infidelity, and who won't be afraid to hold your WW's feet to the fire.

I'm sorry you're hurting.


Posts: 3383 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: NWPA
jayzee08
New Member
Member # 39444
Default  Posted: 9:09 AM, June 5th (Wednesday)

Thanks again for the comments everyone. It means a lot to me.

Well to update the situation once she finally came home last night we of course had a conversation about what had happened yesterday morning regarding my accusation. We both knew the situation wasn't good between us and my constant accusations over the past 3 years have not helped out R. For now we have decided to shift our talks towards separation. I had a feeling this was coming because it knew he was very angry and it would be hard to come back from an accusation such as the one I made. I mean we talked about the relationship with K and she again explained everything to me and said that I was totally blowing my side of things our of proportion. I was reading way too much into their relationship that was really there. She said the text messages were at a minimum and that they only had the one phone call and that the conversation was totally benign in nature. She said when they do IM at work it very minimal and only a few minutes a day. She asked if I wanted to see the IMs to which I declined because I figured it was a mute point at this time. She said if she went to work today and told K they couldn't talk anymore that they would both be fine with it but she felt that I should trust her enough after 3 years that she could have a male friend and for me not to get upset about it or make false accusations about their relationship. She said from the time after the initial EMA I have continued to make snide comments or accusations about any males she talks to co-workers or otherwise. I will admit I do have a problem with her talking with other men and I have blown a lot of things out of proportion with regards to talking to other males. I told her I am going to see IC starting next week and possible check out a CoDa meeting this week which she thought was a great idea. We didn't go much into detail about what is going to happen next. I feel we are both at a crossroads and the train is leaving the station but neither of us are 100% sure to jump on the train or stay put.

I realized that one mistake that I made with handling the EMA was that I stopped IC after about 3 - 4 months after D-Day when we agreed to continue our M. I never worked out those feelings and insecurities that I had and I have constantly projected those onto her over the past 3 years.

This entire process makes me very sad, angry, lonely, and hurt. I am at work currently typing this message and I find it hard to function properly. Waves of emotion keep coming over me thinking about the past 13 years and all the good times we have had together. I think about the fact that up until all of these blew up in the last week or two we were still planning on having kids. I feel like all of that has been ripped away from me. I start to think about what happens next and I am completely overwhelmed by all of it. What happens financially we both are not on very good ground financially. Together we are paying back a credit card debit elimination program. It was a 5 year program we started 3 years ago so we still have another 2 years to go before all of our credit cards are debt free. We own a house together with 2 dogs. I feel she has the option to live with her mom at her condo but I can't afford the mortgage on the house by myself and become of the housing market in the US we are upside-down on the loan even if we sold the house. I honestly don't know if I could even stay in the house even if I would afford it. The memories are too great in there both good and bad to be constantly reminded of the past.

I worry about telling family and friends. We have a lot of mutual friends there was big group of us that all met in college and became good friends all us ended up marrying our college girlfriends so our entire group of friends consists of married couples and most of them now with kids. We were one of the last couples to not have children. I feel I am going to loose a lot of those friendships or it will now become awkward because they don't if they should invite me or my wife or neither of us. My parents adore my wife as well and have treated her with nothing by love and respect over the past 13 years and i feel they are going to be crushed to find out we are getting separated.

I am just in a very bad place right now and hurting so much. The future is so overwhelming to even think about but I know will someone how survive and move on. It is a very scary process to even think about. For now she has not left yet...she did stay at home last night and we did sleep in our bed together but we obviously did not touch or kiss like we normally would.

This morning we were both pretty quite with each other. Our dogs could tell something was wrong as well because they kept coming by me and snuggling up and kissing me to try to cheer me up. She did say this morning that she didn't know what the next steps would be until we come up with a plan. She did give me a big hug and kiss before I left for work this morning and I told she was welcome to stay at the house again tonight but I understood if she didn't feel like coming back. She started to cry and told me she doesn't know what to do. I just told her again that the door is still open if she wanted to come home and left it at that. We kissed and here I am sitting at my desk at work with a tear in my eye.

I am trying to stay strong and put up a strong image so people don't start asking me questions at work but I find it difficult. I may have to take several breaks today to compose myself from breaking down at my desk.


Posts: 7 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Aurora, IL
toby
Member
Member # 10337
Default  Posted: 11:10 AM, June 5th (Wednesday)

Your not crazy, paranoid, co-dep, or whatever your W says.......

The reason your seeing so many red flags is because she's waving them in front of your face!!!

I recommend the 180(check the healing library).

IMO....she's testing you, pushing the limits. Talking separation, is what she wanted all along, because of your suspicions!!!! She turned it around on you!!! All you can do is state your boundaries and consequences if she crosses them. Then leave it to her.

Your W has an agenda! If I had to guess, she'll push for a separation(maybe in-house), then she'll start going out more and coming in late. Be prepare! She's already layed down the tracks.


Posts: 1544 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: Texas
stilllovingher
Member
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 11:41 AM, June 5th (Wednesday)

listen to Toby!

and this...

My guess about your not being happy unless she's home by your side is that it has very little to do with any 'codependency' issues you may have and everything to do with the fact that your WW's boundaries are fucking *shit* and she's an affair waiting to happen.
Your WW's outside interaction with this man needs to stop. Period.

Your WW has no clue what Codependent even means. if anything, SHE is the codependent one here.
She has you convinced that you are the one with the problems.
She needs you to believe that so she can continue on her chosen path.
First she convinced you that you can't live on your own, then threatened separation....how clever.

Get a VAR, hide it in her car, and find out what's really going on.


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2407 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
jayzee08
New Member
Member # 39444
Default  Posted: 11:56 AM, June 5th (Wednesday)

So do you think there is anything worth saving at this point? I mean I honestly don't know where to go from here. I asked if she would consider CT and she said no but she did say she would go for individual therapy. Which I am also going to do but I am guessing it won't be the same doctor. I guess I am just confused on where to go from this point.

Posts: 7 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Aurora, IL
stilllovingher
Member
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 12:06 PM, June 5th (Wednesday)

its not a great idea to have the same doc anyway.

look, her behavior has changed, in tangible ways(shower, panties, activities) there is a reason for that.

Go on the down low and find out, you need to protect yourself.
go down to the nearest electronic store, get a decent VAR with good batteries and find out what's going on.
Take care of yourself, eat, sleep, drink water, exercise and try to enjoy life a little.

if I came to my FWW with these accusations, I imagine she would be : sad, concerned, eager to disprove, ....but not angry....and not threatening.


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2407 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
itainteasy
Member
Member # 31094
Default  Posted: 12:17 PM, June 5th (Wednesday)

She is blameshifting. She is BLAMING you for behaviors SHE created in you.

If she'd never cheated, you wouldn't have a problem with her having male friends.

SHE needs to learn boundaries, and needs to learn how to put her marriage and husband first.

YOU are not doing anything wrong.

I would be extremely angry if my fiance was having a "friendship" with someone that made me uncomfortable/angry/hurt/insecure. The friendship would be over or our relationship would be over.


Posts: 3383 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: NWPA
toby
Member
Member # 10337
Default  Posted: 12:35 PM, June 5th (Wednesday)

Who wouldn't be confused after the mindfuck she's been pulling!! Step back and see this for what it is!

You say you don't want go all 007.... But don't you want to know the truth?

Look, like I said before, she's setting you up to be the badguy here.

SLH gave you solid advise on how to get the truth. And that's what you need, regardless if you try to save your marriage or divorce. You can do this! We can guide you on your path.... Which ever YOU decide to take.
-Toby


Posts: 1544 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: Texas
Faithful w/Love
Member
Member # 33128
Default  Posted: 1:16 PM, June 5th (Wednesday)

1: K is not a freind of the marriage or you would not feel uncomfortable

2:She has no respect for your feelings because she keeps on texting, IMing, and even went to a bar with him knowing how you felt.

3:Your gut is trying to tell you something.. LISTEN!

4:They are not just friends. If they were he would have really wanted to talk and been more intuned to you.

5:Tons of WS will tell you all about the OP. And talk about them all the time, get you to met them. It is a cover. I went through it for 3.5 years and all the while they were sleeping together, going out partying, and they thought they were a couple, but to me when I would accuse because I would NOTICE CUM STAINS IN HIS BOXERS OR BOTTOM OF HIS SHIRT ALL THE TIME then it was "we are just friends". Oh the lies! Good Lord, makes me sick when I look back.

4:She is blameshifting this on you. making you feel guilty for questioning her. Now she is thinking of seperation, and you are feeling like you are up against a wall and feeling like " I wish I would have not said anything".. Been there done that also.

She will start going out more and more, her phone will be by her side more and more, you will get the I love you but not in love with you soon also. And she will make it your fault for not trusting her.

PLEASE PLEASE do the 180 NOW or you may be like I was for 3.5 years. It is at the start of A and once she gets into the lala land of it, it will go PA.

I feel so bad for you and want to scream at your wife!
It is not rocket science to see what she is doing and she knows it!

Tell her that seperation is fine. Blow her Bluff. Act like you don't care. Be nonchalant about things. That will get her attention.

I am sorry that you are going thru this.

Please listen to us. Be strong, you can do this.

[This message edited by Faithful w/Love at 1:21 PM, June 5th (Wednesday)]


BS(ME)40 WH(HIM)38
DD 19 and DS 15
Separated Aug 2012
Moved back home Oct 31 2013
False R. Still Lying.
Will be divorcing soon!
"You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have"!

Posts: 2661 | Registered: Aug 2011
Faithful w/Love
Member
Member # 33128
Default  Posted: 1:24 PM, June 5th (Wednesday)

Oh and Also, she is mind-fucking you. Don't let her do that or you will end up as I was, a basketcase and nerves all over the place. Make sure you eat, sleep, drink water, read, whatever you can to stay mentally healthy and physically healthy. It is going to be a rollcoaster ride if she can't see what is happening and get knocked off the fence.

I am being totally honest but I feel she is already crossed the line.


BS(ME)40 WH(HIM)38
DD 19 and DS 15
Separated Aug 2012
Moved back home Oct 31 2013
False R. Still Lying.
Will be divorcing soon!
"You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have"!

Posts: 2661 | Registered: Aug 2011
DeadMumWalking
Member
Member # 25341
Default  Posted: 1:40 PM, June 5th (Wednesday)

((((jayzee08))))

Oh and Also, she is mind-fucking you.

This is why you need a var. To find out what is REALLY going on. You CANNOT trust her words, they are meaningless (and manipulative).

You don't have to decide ANYTHING right this second. Take the time you need for YOU.

Everything about this is crazy-making, you are not alone in that.

If your WW had decent boundaries, if she had not CHEATED on you already, then there would be no problem with having male friends. But she doesn't have male friends, she has male 'friends' - ie, affair partners.

If I were in your position, I would not confront her with any evidence but I would collect it in any way possible. For my own peace of mind. And to eventually make decisions based on REALITY and not on her meaningless soundwaves.

((((jayzee08))))


Me (BS), Him (WH): early 50's
3 DS: teens!!! :)
M: 24 (19 1/2 at Dday), Together 29
Dday: Dec 2008
Limbo-ish, again (after multiple S) -- weighing my options

Posts: 2587 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: EU
toomanyregrets
Member
Member # 37740
Default  Posted: 2:14 PM, June 5th (Wednesday)

Your not parinoid.
Your worried that it's started again and you have a right to think that way.

You've told her that her "friendship" with K disturbs you. She should stop that friendship if she really cared about you.
But she continues to see K after work and texts and call him all the time.

She gets mad at you because you don't trust her. Why should you? She destroyed that trust 3 years ago.

Maybe it's time to review your options.


BH - 64
fWW - 60

"Affairs are not mistakes, they are a series of deliberate choices." - CrappyLife


Posts: 467 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Upstate NY
jayzee08
New Member
Member # 39444
Default  Posted: 4:06 PM, June 5th (Wednesday)

I do like my mind is being screwed with. I do feel there is blameshifting taking place as well. As several of you have said I would not see this way about her relationship with K if she didn't have that EMA. I really think she wanted the separation all long starting after the EMA but decided to stay because of financial reasons, wanting to have a baby, and fear of the change and being judged by friends and family. It's really hard to think about it all being over after such a long time together and it hasn't been all bad either. We have had a lot of wonderful memories over these 13 years. I mean even right up until this has all blown up the last few days we still were best friends.

I also wanted to say I think I painted a incorrect picture for some of you about the amount of contact she is having with K. You are telling me to get a VAR and stick in her car. In the past 2 months she has had 1 phone call with him. The text messages have not been that many either but there has been some. I am not downplaying that she crossed boundaries but I also don't want to make it seem like this was an all day everyday thing with K. With the EMA she was on the phone with him to work, at work, and after work. It was all day long and she was complaining about me to the OP. With K it has been different from the text messages and IMs I read she spoke highly of me and was telling K the things that him and I have in common such as both working in the IT field and having an interest in new cell phones.

Faithful--- what is the 180 that you mentioned in your post? I feel our situations have a lot of similarities to them based on your response. The only problem I have had was trying to keep my calm. Like I said earlier I didn't sleep very well last night. Maybe 3 -4 hours tops. I woke up at 4:30am and was balling because of the dreams and thoughts I was having. This morning while getting ready for work we spoke a little but I had a hard time even looking her in the eye without losing it. She did even come up to me and give me a long hug and kiss. I know she said she is struggling with this too and told me this isn't and easy decision. I feel like she thinks the easy way out is to leave so she has a chance at still meeting someone and having a kid. I think she feels if she stays and we try to make it work again and we still come to this same spot again then she not only has she lost her marriage but also her shot at having a baby. I really love her with all my heart and it makes me very sad to think it is all over. I really wanted to be a dad too and I wanted to be the man to give her that wish.

She hasn't left yet or even made up her mind about what she is going to do. tonight I am going to see a therapist along with the other appointment I made for next week to see which person I think can help me better. I figure at this point at least I can start working on me and my future either with or without my wife.


Posts: 7 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Aurora, IL
toby
Member
Member # 10337
Default  Posted: 6:14 PM, June 5th (Wednesday)

Man.....your WW has done a number on you...hasn't she? Therapy will help you get your mojo back, but its gonna take time. Meanwhile, here are some steps you should implement ASAP.
1: consult a lawyer
2: hardcore 180. This is for you to get mentally and emotionally stronger.
3: find out who the new guy is. I'm not totally convince its this K guy. He might be a decoy or diversion.
4: expose the affair. And yes, I do believe she's cheating again. Rarely will a S leave without a back-up already in place.

Remember, it's not your fault! She's doing this. Good luck and keep posting for support.


Posts: 1544 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: Texas
sammie
Member
Member # 7785
Default  Posted: 6:24 PM, June 5th (Wednesday)

Still get a VAR. She might have another phone since she knows you are monitoring her.

Hugs.


If someone loves you, it should feel like they love you.
Never give more of yourself than you are getting back.

"The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong at the broken places." ~Ernest Hemingway


Posts: 5818 | Registered: Aug 2005 | From: Australia
DeadMumWalking
Member
Member # 25341
Default  Posted: 1:24 AM, June 6th (Thursday)

what is the 180 that you mentioned in your post?

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/faq_bs.asp#FAQ11


She hasn't left yet or even made up her mind about what she is going to do.

Gently, because I KNOW this is HARD: the question isn't what is SHE going to do, it's what are YOU going to do.

Take back your power. Don't let her stay in the driver's seat. She will keep you dangling on a string as long as you let her.

Are you prepared to risk losing your marriage in order to possibly save it? The best advice - and probably hardest to accept - is to CLOSE THE BAKERY. Why are you waiting for her to decide whether she wants to stay with you or not? You are worth more than that!

You cannot 'nice' her back into the M. She doesn't choose you right now? Then she doesn't get you. She can LEAVE and have the life she thinks she wants. Show her what the reality of losing you is.

She does not value you right now. YOU need to value you.

There are some great posts in the Just Found Out forum (JFO), usually on the first or second page with targets next to them. These will have good informtion to help you out. Here are some links:

Tactical primer: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=235051

Boundaries and consequences: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=385631

Before you say reconcile: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=406548

20/20 hindsight: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=446349

It's simple. Simple, but not easy, believe me we all know this.

I hope things went well with your IC. I'm so sorry you are in this situation.

((((jayzee08))))


Me (BS), Him (WH): early 50's
3 DS: teens!!! :)
M: 24 (19 1/2 at Dday), Together 29
Dday: Dec 2008
Limbo-ish, again (after multiple S) -- weighing my options

Posts: 2587 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: EU
seriouslylostit
Member
Member # 23987
Default  Posted: 2:13 AM, June 6th (Thursday)

Jayzee, Jayzee,

It's plain and simple. WW had an EMA and you gave her the gift of R. if she cared about the M or you or your feelings and really was working her part of the R, she would not have had this male friend in the first place let alone continue the supposed "just a friend" friendship given your feelings.

This tells you he isn't just a friend.

And no, don't wait for her to text or call him, give her a reason to do so in a panic. Get a spoof account and go to another phone and call your phone for however long of a dead air call with his number in the caller id and make sure WW runs into the evidence of the call or I can't remember if he's married? If so, pay a service to get his wife's cell and spoof up a bunch of hang up calls from wife's number and ask WW if she knows who is calling and hanging up.

Prior to this VAR and key log everything and get a signal jammer so she can't text from the house which you can deactivate if you leave the VARed up house for a brief time.

This will provide you with the flat out evidence and for sure answer WTF is going on. And she has been gas lighting the living hell out of you so gaslight back and don't ponder the ethics and blah blah. This is war and your marriage is what's at stake.


Posts: 843 | Registered: May 2009
circe
Member
Member # 6687
Default  Posted: 5:35 AM, June 6th (Thursday)

jayzee, your wife had an A, you caught her at it, and she learned the methods that you used to find out her secret. Now she's certainly not going to leave the exact same trail she left last time, is she?

You are telling me to get a VAR and stick in her car. In the past 2 months she has had 1 phone call with him. The text messages have not been that many either but there has been some. I am not downplaying that she crossed boundaries but I also don't want to make it seem like this was an all day everyday thing with K. With the EMA she was on the phone with him to work, at work, and after work. It was all day long and she was complaining about me to the OP. With K it has been different from the text messages and IMs I read she spoke highly of me and was telling K the things that him and I have in common such as both working in the IT field and having an interest in new cell phones.

Gently: you have only read what she's left on her phone and what she has wanted to show you. You don't know how often they actually talk, or IM, or email. I'd be surprised if she knew you were checking her phone, yet she still used that phone to do most of the communication with K.

Your gut is red flagging this relationship because it's inappropriate. As others have said, EVEN IF what you know of the relationship is all there is to it, it's inappropriate. As a husband, you've told her that a relationship with another man makes you uncomfortable and you respectfully asked her to stop it. Even though she claims K means nothing to her and cutting of communication would be "no big deal" - she is still not cutting it off even though she knows it's hurting her marriage.

Do you not see how inappropriate that is?

And blaming you for being "paranoid" and acting as if she's the victim of your paranoia is classic WS blame shifting. She's asking you not to believe your ears, your eyes, your gut. She's telling you that all the red flags are coming from your own paranoid mind. She's telling you that you are codependent and wrong. She's telling you that she is just fine, just a "strong independent woman". This comes directly from the WS script. Think about if your WW suspected you of infidelity and you were innocent. Think about her respectfully bringing this to your attention. Pointing out things that are bothering her. Telling you about things that made her uncomfortable. Can you honestly see, as an innocent person, going on the attack? Blaming her? Shaming her?


With regards to our recent discussions she has told me that she has always been a strong independent person and she feels I am very codependent on her. She feels I would have a hard time being on my own. To be honest I have never been alone in my entire life. I lived at home until 18 years old with my parents. I then went to college and lived with friends/roommates with 4 years and then I meet my wife. I lived with her ever since.

Living at home, going to college and having roommates and then getting married is normal! Everyone lives at home when they're young. Everyone has at least one roommate and usually several in college. That's not "dependent" - that's normal. And if you move in with a girlfriend during college and then go on to marry that girlfriend, you're doing exactly what a vast majority of the population does. That's not being codependent, are you kidding? What you describe is one of the most natural, normal patterns of life in this country. Just because you never lived in your own apartment without roommates before meeting your spouse, that's suddenly a mark of dependence? I've never heard such a thing. That's really warped and twisted thinking. And she's trying to shame you for that?

And now, in the middle of trying to have a baby with her husband, instead of working on her boundaries and cutting off a relationship that is harming her marriage, she thinks it will be easier to divorce you, meet someone else and have a baby with the next person?

jayzee, I'm sorry but none of this adds up. She's feeding you a lot of bull, and she is really messing with your mind.


Posts: 3192 | Registered: Mar 2005
jayzee08
New Member
Member # 39444
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, June 6th (Thursday)

Thursday Morning update-

Thanks for posting the information about the 180. I am going to do some more reading about it today. Anyways on to the latest update.

Yesterday, I was able to make an appointment with a Licensed Marriage & Family Therapist. She has a Masters in marriage and couples therapy and has a great deal of experience dealing with EMA and possible divorce. After meeting with her and giving her the same rundown that I gave all of you in my first post she started asking me some questions about our previous CT that we attended after the EMA was discovered 3 years ago. It was her professional opinion that the person we were seeing did not know how to specifically handle As because she said I never heard the tools to forgive my wife for what happened and how to cope and deal with my insecurities and how to properly setup boundaries which she told me I never fully established properly with my WW. She basically hit me over the head with a brick but I was stunned to hear this. She felt that I simply was reading way too much into this relationship with K and blowing things way out the proportion and even been destructive with my thoughts and actions. She did say she can help me and that there would be a lot of work involved but she said she may even be able to save the marriage but if not she would continue to work with me to fix these issues so that I am a stronger and more confident person moving forward in my life with or without this marriage. She asked me to talk to my WW wife either last night or today and ask her to give me more time to work on myself. She told me to point out the positive changes I have made over the past 3 years and to assure my wife I was capable of making changes as evident by the ones I have already made. She asked me to ask her for more time and if she said No to be prepared to cry and to be hurt but then realize it is time to move on. If she said yes or I don't know that she asked me to ask for 3 months.

So after leaving therapy last night I meet up with some friends and I went to watch their daughters softball game which helped a lot to keep my mind off things. Once the game ended I drove home and let the dogs out and feed them dinner and then made myself something to eat. My WW was not home at this point nor did I know if she was coming home. She previously made plans last night a few weeks back to meet up with an out-of-state friend for dinner. I wasn't sure she was going to stay at the hotel with her friend or possibly stay at her mom's condo. Anyways, per the therapist "take home" work I was to contact my WW and ask to talk and see if she would be willing to give me more time.

I texted her and said I know you are out with your friend right now but I would like the opportunity to talk to you tonight. She responded about 45 minutes later saying she was just finishing up dinner with her friend and would be going back home for the night and would call me on her way home. She did call me and let her know I had gone to see a therapist today and let her know that she opened my eyes to sometimes I wasn't previously aware of such as me thinking I forgave you for the EMA when in reality I never did because our previous therapy sessions never told me how to properly do that and that is a major part of why I have been still holding on this for the past 3 years. I asked her to see the changes I have made for myself and our marriage over this time and to use that as proof I can make changes for the positive. I asked her to give me more time to work with this new therapist and see if I can make more changes in order to help myself and help repair our M. She said she didn't know so I asked if she would give me the 3 months as suggested by the therapist. She agreed but the also told me not to except her to just pretend like all this turmoil we have been experiencing hasn't occurred and things will just suddenly go back to "normal". I agreed and was exactly a bit surprised she agreed to give me more time. She was happy about me going to IC and thought that is sounded like this therapist would be able to help me better than before. She did also mention that the past 2 days of her not having to "check-in" with me constantly felt great to her. Because of my constant insecurities she felt to reassure me she would constantly "check-in" with me with IMs, texts, or calls. (i.e. text me when she was leaving work, text me when she got to where she was going, text me when she left where she was, call me when was on her way home.) I mean that type of communication is normal but she said I required to an excessive amount and it bothered her but she never spoke up about because she new it helped appease my insecurities. I was a little dejected by this comment but at the same time I understand how frustrating that could be if she required the same of me.

From there the conversation shifted to the problems she has been having with her car as of late. The check engine light came on in her car last Friday afternoon while driving home from work. Over the weekend were busy but we managed to take it to one place on Sunday afternoon and they checked it out and said they didn't see anything wrong. Unfortunately this shop was more of an oil change, tire, battery, brakes kind of place so we didn't know how well trained they were to look at engine problems. Anyways we agree based on our schedules for the week that Thursday we would drop her car off at the dealer and then she would drop me off at work and then take my car to drive herself to work. Once everything exploded on Tuesday morning I told her I was wanted to attend a CoDa support meeting on Thursday night to see what it was all about. Anyways, getting back to the conversation from last night she tells me that K is going to meet her at the dealership this morning and then they will drive to work together since he lives about 5 mins away from the dealership and they are both going to the same office. In her words, so I can then go to my support group meeting tonight instead of having to miss it because of not having a car. I didn't say anything about it at all except "Ok". I didn't really know what to think other than this seemed like an excuse to spend more time with K.

When she arrived home we talked a little more and she told me she thought it was great that I went to talk to somebody. We then before agreed we were tired and went upstairs to bed. She has slept in our bed the past 2 nights but we have not really touched other than the one kiss/hug yesterday morning. I thanked her listening to me and for agreeing to give me more time. She told me I was her best friend and she just wants to see me be happy regardless if that means being together or being apart. That made me feel good in the way I felt like she hasn't completely given up hope for us yet. I also told her I would assist her to find a therapist for herself if liked by showing her which ones were approved for our medical insurance. She did agree that was a good idea. I did ask her way she wanted IC as opposed to CT and she said she is too angry and hurt right now and it would be counter-productive to attend CT. She feels like IC would be the best route for now to work on her issues and then if things progress for both us than maybe we can look in CT. The last thing I asked her was if she was still planning on going on vacation with me at the end of the month. My family rents a cabin on a lake for a week each year and her and I have been going there for the past 10 years or so since we started dating. She told she has been going back and forth about it and she doesn't know at this time. I then asked if she is giving me more time wouldn't going with me be part of that and her response was "we'll see".

My thing is my parents are the ones that rent this place and they are going to find it extremely odd that my wife has pulled out of going on this trip 2.5 weeks ahead of time when she has been talking about going the past few times we have seen my parents. Obviously if she chooses not to go then something will need to be said to my parents. Do I lie and say she has to work? Do I tell them a half truth and say that we have been have some issues with the marriage and we agreed it would be better if we stayed apart that week? I just feel we are quickly approaching a critical point where people outside of just me and her and our therapists know what is going on and how we handle those conversations.

This morning we didn't really speak except for some normal chit-chat. I told her to remind the dealer about a few other small issues with the car. She got up showered, dressed and was out the door by 6:40am to meet K at the dealer by 7am because K starts work and 1.5 before my W does so she needed the drop the car off and catch a ride with him so he can still get to the office on time. She let me know she was leaving for the day and I asked her what her plans were for the evening and if she cared to join me to watch the Blackhawks playoff game with me tonight and she agreed before she walked out the door. No kiss or hug today.

Anyways, I am very conflicted because the therapist basically told me the complete opposite of what I have been reading here so far and she kind of agreed with my W in saying that I was overly reading into things and hugely overreacting to my insecurities. I am a huge mess right now and I find it hard to keep you the confidence and stay strong.

Based on the quick read through I did on the 180. I have a few questions....

#11 Do more than act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!

What are some suggestions for this step? I am not a very social person and as I mention money is an issue so I can't exactly go out and spend money to keep me busy. most days I get home from work by 5pm. On MWF I workout at home after work and TTh I got to the gym for swim classes that I take. I have continued to go to my classes but other than that I usually come home, make dinner, and watch TV. The friends we have are all couples and most have kids so doing stuff with them during the week is difficult and in a way I feel like they can read through me right now and tell something is wrong and want to ask questions I am not prepared to answer.

#13 I guess is also similar in terms of doing things. I don't have many hobbies and again money is a factor. I mean one of my hobbies is video games but I feel like that is sitting around and probably not a good solution. I think going to IC and possibly a support meeting are good things for now to keep my busy. Any suggestions are welcome.

I apologize for another lengthy post but I feel this has been a good outlet for me thus far. I will continue to post on here and let everyone know how things are going regardless if they are positive or negative. I appreciate all the comments, concerns, and suggestions. I know I will get through this and I will be stronger on the other side. I just to remind myself to keep smiling and moving my feet.


Posts: 7 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Aurora, IL
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 10:11 AM, June 6th (Thursday)

I am very conflicted because the therapist basically told me the complete opposite of what I have been reading here

The thing about the people that post on SI is that, collectively, we have years and years of real-life betrayal experience, hours and hours of IC/MC sessions (with good C's AND bad ones), and millions of pages read in relationship/self-help books. But what the heck do we know, right?

FWIW, I think your therapist got her license out of a cracker jack box. The only 'smart' thing she said was that you never established boundaries. All the rest of it is bullshit, IMO.

I would very strongly suggest that you place a VAR in your WW's car. Cheaters are sneaky little devils. Right now you have NO idea what she is capable of. She could have a 2nd phone. Also, are you aware that there are apps that allow phone calls to be made and texts to be sent that do not show up on the phone bill?

Your WW is playing you. BIG TIME. You can't see it yet, but you will when you're ready to.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8005 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
cdagal
Member
Member # 38154
Default  Posted: 10:27 AM, June 6th (Thursday)

DO NOT take the blame for what is going on. My EH also told me all about his chats with his "friend", kept it all above board, if he was so transparent, how could it be nefarious? His EA turned into a PA - and all the while, I was thinking "gee, isn't it nice that he has a female friend to talk to...."
You are not the cause of this!


M - 25 yrs
DDay - August 5, 2010
Divorced - December 12, 2011
He married the OW 35 days later
"Fall seven times, stand up eight" - Japanese proverb

Posts: 73 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Canada
rivenheart
Member
Member # 13838
Default  Posted: 10:34 AM, June 6th (Thursday)

I don't know the facts of your WW's relationship with K. Nor do you. But while it really doesn't affect me much either way, it affects you and your M profoundly. You need to know the facts. So I suggest you follow the advice here and do some snooping. Whatever happens, DO NOT REVEAL YOUR SOURCES. Always, always, always keep them to yourself. I concur with the other suggestions to put a VAR in her car. Information gathered in this way will ONLY benefit you. If there's more than she's been telling, you know she's a lying sack of shit. If her relationship with K is truly platonic though close, you have solid information that can put your anxieties to rest - on that issue at least.


rivenheart ~ heartriven
Me: BW, 36 at d-day; WH, 40

Posts: 1037 | Registered: Mar 2007
DeadMumWalking
Member
Member # 25341
Default  Posted: 10:43 AM, June 6th (Thursday)

Wow. Your IC turned this all around onto YOU??

Please see another IC before you continue with this one. I think it is a BIG mistake to put the blame onto you. HUGE.

You haven't 'forgiven' - meaning you haven't sufficiently swept this under the rug so that your WW can continue with her cheating ways. Why don't you trust your WW? Umm, maybe it has something to do with HER NOT BEING TRUSTWORTHY.

And now she is leveraging her 'car trouble' (btw, did you see the check engine light on??) into EXTRA time she 'must' spend with K??? Give me a break...

I am so sorry you are going through this. I really don't think you have found an IC that will be a good fit for your situation.

As for the 180 - are there any free or inexpensive classes, clubs, etc of interest to you in your area? Do you enjoy outdoor activities or sports? What did you used to like doing? You mentioned swimming - maybe add running and/or cycling, perhaps aim at an event like a duathlon or triathlon? Just a few thoughts.

((((jayzee08))))


Me (BS), Him (WH): early 50's
3 DS: teens!!! :)
M: 24 (19 1/2 at Dday), Together 29
Dday: Dec 2008
Limbo-ish, again (after multiple S) -- weighing my options

Posts: 2587 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: EU
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 11:12 AM, June 6th (Thursday)

I think it's odd that K supposedly wanted to meet you, to have dinner with you and your wife...but the first time you met him,he was cold,distant,wouldn't look you in the eye,and barely spoke to you.

Not all IC's are qualified to handle infidelity. Yours isn't.


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,10
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7419 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
Faithful w/Love
Member
Member # 33128
Default  Posted: 11:15 AM, June 6th (Thursday)

OMG Jayzee,

Ask your IC if she ever has exprienced an A for herself? If she has not than she is only going off what a person who has never been cheated on would be like.

She and your W has put this all on you! No fucking WAY!
STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT!!!!
Why the hell are you doing all this work but your W gets nothing to work on? Fuck that and throw that to the dogs.

We have similar situation. I am trying to help you see before you end up like I was. Full of guilt, blaming myself, on my knees everytime he would leave to go out. Waking up in shock because it was 5am and he was still not home. List go's on and on because I was to afraid to put my foot down! He was all I knew for 19 years. How could he do this to me? Why is he doing this to me? And the crazy head games you start to play with yourself. You will take everything they say and anylast it. You will pick out what makes you feel hope. And you will go off the deep end with the things that don't.

Understand this PLEASE!

YOUR WIFE... is spending time with another MALE! Who in their right mind would do this if they loved their spouse and had good morals? They would see how much it hurts the person they claim to love? Why can't she stop contact with him? And work is NO EXCUSE! NONE! People on SI have spouses that still work with OP including mine (but we are sperated) and they don't have anything to do with the OP now.
Your having her check in should not be a big deal she is the one that did this mind fuck to you.

Why did she have K take her to work? Really, you were willing to let her use your car. Good excuse she came up with.

DON'T be snowed. Find out the truth. IF your gut didn't say "LOOK OUT" you would not be wondering all this crap that she is letting you wonder!


BS(ME)40 WH(HIM)38
DD 19 and DS 15
Separated Aug 2012
Moved back home Oct 31 2013
False R. Still Lying.
Will be divorcing soon!
"You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have"!

Posts: 2661 | Registered: Aug 2011
NoMorDeceit
Member
Member # 23547
Default  Posted: 12:23 PM, June 6th (Thursday)

Jayzee,

You need a new therapist. Your therapist told you that you are essentially the problem and your wife's relationship with K is perfectly normal? Is that the gist? That fries me.

She felt that I simply was reading way too much into this relationship with K and blowing things way out the proportion and even been destructive with my thoughts and actions.

Seriously??? Someone with a license to practice said this? After one meeting with you? That is BS.

Your wife goes out alone with other men, a married woman...she has cheated in the past. She doesn't like having to check in with you and on and on..and may not go on vacation with you and refuses to end this "friendship" that you don't like, in fact she is flaunting it in your face...but you are wrong and insecure??

How convenient that K had to be to work 1.5 hours before her and how convenient he lives so close to the dealership and was so nice to give her a ride to work...

You are her "best friend" and she wants the best for you whether you are together or not? Come on. That is affair speak. That ranks right up there with "I love you but I'm not in love with you".

You do not have to tolerate an unremorseful wife who likes her "best friend" at home, while she is out playing single woman...tell her to get a fucking dog. You are done playing the role.

I'm sorry Jayzee. Your therapist is off her nut, your insecurity and anxiety is perfectly normal given your wife's affair and continued behaviors.

My heart breaks for you Jayzee, because I've seen this story play out over and over here. Your wife has zero respect for you, is gaslighting, blame shifting and still cheating...no one deserves to be treated that way.


FBS, been through the D marathon too.
Many D Days in April 2009
Multiple affairs, LTAs, and many OWs
Reconciled... There is hope! :)


Posts: 522 | Registered: Apr 2009
Josephine01
Member
Member # 38511
Default  Posted: 12:37 PM, June 6th (Thursday)

Always trust your gut. Even IF this is just a friendship she knows how uncomfortable you are with her friendship and still chooses to continue it. Go out with him. Not even caring bout your emotional well being. That's a huge red flag. If she was truly into your relationship she would immediately put a stop to this friendship.

My opinion if something hasn't started yet it will. Sorry. ((Hugs))


Me, 42 BS
H, 61 WH
2 boys 19 and 15 years old
Married 24 years

Posts: 314 | Registered: Feb 2013
stilllovingher
Member
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 12:57 PM, June 6th (Thursday)

HOOOOLLLY SHIT!!!!

I am so pissed for you right now!

you wanna know how easy it is to make your engine light turn on?
just leave your gas cap off and start driving, that's it!!!

Take the $$$ and time you use for that quack doc and spend it on yourself, doing something that will actually benefit you!

look man, this situation is escalating... quickly.
You need to start protecting yourself NOW. Because no one else will.
That means finding out what the heck is really going on.

Think about it, you are a man, what do you honestly think this guys motives are here? You know, she knows too.

This is the best example of "gas lighting" I have ever seen on this website. She has you convinced you are crazy!

and this gem...

She agreed but the also told me not to except her to just pretend like all this turmoil we have been experiencing hasn't occurred and things will just suddenly go back to "normal".

soooo...let me get this straight...
she wants YOU to forget about all that she has done/is doing, but no way in hell is she going to live by that same standard.

She has you spinning, bro.
She is manipulating you.

From the very beginning of this mess, she had you convinced that she is the prize and you need to WIN her back. That YOU need to become what she wants so that she needn't screw around anymore. FUCK THAT!
That is so ass backwards I can't even figure out how finish this sentence without cuss words...UNFUCKINGBELIEVABLE.

YOU are the prize!
The problem is, she seems to think that she is entitled to forgiveness .
Yet, she has no clue what forgiveness is, or what it costs.
No, what she wants is "forgetness".
What she wants is a pass, a waiver.

I repeat,
this is escalating.
You need to become Columbo.
Its time to go Gil Grissom on her.

I'm not just pissed here, I'm concerned for your safety as well.
STDs exist, and affairs are known for ending badly.

please protect yourself.


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2407 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
toby
Member
Member # 10337
Default  Posted: 12:57 PM, June 6th (Thursday)

What if her car needs more work and needs to stay at the dealership a few days....how is she going to get around? With K?

If K goes in 1.5 hrs earliar than your W, then I assume he gets out earliar also. Right?

How is she gonna pick up her car?

Should be an interesting evening, don't be surprise if she bails on you tonight.

Find out where this K lives, find out what he drives.

If your gonna fight for your marriage, your going to need all the info/intel that you need!

Also, if she decides to spend the night at hers moms home, best do a drive- by!

Trust but verify!


Posts: 1544 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: Texas
circe
Member
Member # 6687
Default  Posted: 2:09 PM, June 6th (Thursday)

jayzee, think about this, please! This was your first session with the therapist. She does not know your wife. She has never met your wife. She does not yet know you. She has only had a small glimpse of you, and a small glimpse of your marriage through the lens of a patient (you) who is going through a crisis. Part of that glimpse was the knowledge that your wife has cheated on you, and has poor to no boundaries with men. And based on that, she actually made this statement:

She felt that I simply was reading way too much into this relationship with K and blowing things way out the proportion and even been destructive with my thoughts and actions.

Do you realize that NO reputable therapist would say something like that in the first meeting? Seriously, jayzee, do you know that good therapists do NOT make generalizations like this about a brand new patient with almost no history, background or knowledge? I'm furious on your behalf! What an unprofessional session that was! She told you to grovel, and to let your WS make all the choices about the future of the marriage while you cower and apologize? And part of your "flaw" was that YOU didn't set boundaries for your W? Seriously?

Of course your wife was THRILLED to hear about this IC session, since it absolved her for all responsibility, she could then assume the role of the "victim" and to top it off, she could flaunt her continuing relationship with K to you while you are at your lowest point. And string you along about whether or not she will be a wife to you. And tell you that you are her "friend"! (Meanwhile, you'd better believe she's telling K that you and she are "just friends, at this point in the marriage") So of course she's going to tell you that THIS IC is really good for you, since the IC is laying all blame at your door.

Ugh, I am so sorry man. This makes me so sick to read.

I'm really sorry, but your wife is having an affair with K. At this point it might just be an EA. But a real counselor would not tell you to overlook your wife's growing relationship with a coworker after acknowledging that she has poor boundaries with men.

To be quite honest, it sounds like your IC is rooting for your wife to leave you, and enabling your wife's affair.

There are so many damaging and terrible IC's jayzee. I know that in your mind, the experience and credentials of her degrees carry more weight than a bunch of anonymous posters on a message board. But consider the cumulative weight of all our experience, all our mistakes and successes, and how strongly woven the tapestry of our combined stories. And so many books written by professionals, with such great reviews and success stories from thousands of people who have "been there". None of them will tell you to grovel, to apologize, to ignore your gut, to give your wayward wife more time alone with another man and to take the blame for not setting boundaries for her. None of them. Your IC is giving you really, really bad advice. I'm so sorry man.

[This message edited by circe at 2:11 PM, June 6th (Thursday)]


Posts: 3192 | Registered: Mar 2005
BaldwinBeauty59
Member
Member # 35507
Default  Posted: 2:23 PM, June 6th (Thursday)

You are paying someone good money to give you bad advice. You will get much better advice for free here on SI from people who have lived through this nightmare. Fire your IC, she doesn't know her ass from a hole in the ground. Also, I hate to chip away at whatever little bit of trust you are trying to have in your WW, but dude, she is cheating on you again. NO FWS would EVER get into another close friendship with anyone from the opposite sex if they were truly remorseful and NOT cheating. She is playing you for a fool. Please get a VAR in her vehicle and a keylogger on her computer. She probably has a hidden cell phone that you do not know about. When she is asleep go through her car with a fine tooth comb. Do not leave any area uncovered. Get a flashlight and look EVERYWHERE, inside, outside, and upside down. Look for receipts, notes, a phone and/or strange phone charger, cards, scrap paper, pens that came from a hotel. Check out everything you find to look for clues.


Me - BW (53)
Him - WH (56)
OW - skanky whore coworker
Married 33 years
DDay1 8/10/11
DDay2 8/15/11
DDay3 8/28/11
2 grown children
Status - in R

Posts: 978 | Registered: May 2012
stilllovingher
Member
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 3:33 PM, June 6th (Thursday)

JZ)))

this shit sucks all around, and to go through it X2....Its more than I can imagine.

its obvious you have put an extraordinary amount of effort into this marriage, and now it Prolly feels it was all for nothing. You shouldered a majority of the "work" , by a laaarge margin, in recovery. And now she is demanding more.

That's harsh. really, really harsh.
sorry.
take care of yourself.


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2407 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
movingforward13
Member
Member # 38405
Default  Posted: 4:41 PM, June 6th (Thursday)

Jayzee, please, what ever you do, keep posting here. Please keep us updated. You have about 15 people telling you that your wife is cheating on you and I personally need to know how this "ends".

I unfortunately concur with everyone else... And if you were emotionally capable, I would tell you to file for divorce. Not to actually divorce her, but to regain control of this situation. Your wife has you by the balls, she is cheating on you and blame shifting to maintain control so that she can cheat. Unfortunately, you aren't seeing is right now because you are being gas lighted.
If anything, keep snooping... Something will fall out to either prove us here right... Or sadly, us right. This isn't right and your gut is telling you it is. You are feeling crazy for a reason... Because she is cheating on you. Please, keep reading so that you know what to do when this all comes to light. You have to be mentally strong right now.


Once a cheater, always a cheater happens when your cheater doesn't have remorse.
Regret is not remorse- know the difference!

Posts: 638 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: DC
Edith
Member
Member # 38337
Default  Posted: 4:51 PM, June 6th (Thursday)

Hey JZ08,
So sorry you are going through this mess. We have a saying around here to trust your gut. Your gut has been screaming about this K character, and now you are getting some very questionable advice from a therapist to disregard your instincts. I agree with others, I would fire that therapist like yesterday!

It sounds to me like you are a thoughtful person, so I would highly suggest you check out the book "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin DeBecker. He explains how our intuitive instincts affect our conscious feelings, and how important it is to listen to that inner voice.

Please try to listen to your instincts. I am willing to bet the farm that your gut is correct. I would implement the 180 and make it clear to her that she is not welcome on vacation until she stops all contact with K. Turn things around on her instead of shouldering the blame yourself.

I'm so sorry. You deserve so much better than this.

E.


Lies are manipulations. Always.

Posts: 380 | Registered: Feb 2013
still2suspicious
Member
Member # 31722
Default  Posted: 5:03 PM, June 6th (Thursday)

Holy shit, Batman! RYFKM??

SHE has not one, but TWO A's. You twist yourself into such a pretzel, a bad IC tells YOU to get over it, you relay that to your WW, ask her to give YOU time to change so she'll want to stay M'd to you, she gleefully says "I'll think about it" and gleefully skips along with K???? Do I have that right???

Oh sweet jayzee, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE 180 her ass and file!! Does not mean it goes to the final end.

She is using you like no tomorrow. Why? B/c she can. From what I can gather she has NO desire to change a f'n thing! Why should she? She knows how to play you, and she will for as long as you let her.

PLEASE take care of Jayzee. YOU are worth so much more than the crumbs she is giving you. YOU deserve so much better.

We loyal spouses just don't have the mind set (well most of us ) to immediately go for the jugular. It takes time to get there. BTDT.

YOU can turn this around. Just probably not in the direction she wants you to go. And that's a good thing.

If this story was coming from a friend, what would you tell him? How would you guide him? Well, pretend you are your own friend.

Maybe put her, and K, and all of it down for just a bit. And look at Jayzee. See what HE wants.

We are here for you. Some guys have some great advice. We are just trying to help you avoid some of the pitfalls that we went thru. Maybe avoid some of the hurts.

Sending strength.


Me: BS
Him: WH
DDay: LTEA

Posts: 1284 | Registered: Apr 2011 | From:
seriouslylostit
Member
Member # 23987
Default  Posted: 9:24 PM, June 7th (Friday)

Wtf? This IC is out of her mind! How in the world can she determine you are reading too much into it after one meeting and never not once seeing your WW and K together???? How in the name of blazes is she 100% sure your WW is not currently in an A?

In my concerted opinion, your IC is in the middle of an A herself and into keeping the BH smoked.


Posts: 843 | Registered: May 2009
seriouslylostit
Member
Member # 23987
Default  Posted: 9:50 PM, June 7th (Friday)

Or let's put it this way ... If you find out about WW and K, you will need a lawyer and potentially a PI more than you need an IC. Do you think this IC does not know this?? It sounds like she's protecting her own bottom line.

Posts: 843 | Registered: May 2009
Holly-Isis
Member
Member # 13447
Default  Posted: 8:18 AM, June 8th (Saturday)

When we are M, it's a choice for life. The only family we get to pick, so we should guard our hearts for our spouse since they have given us the gift of theirs.

Any time, especially in the case of previous infidelity, a spouse choose a friend over their life partner it indicates an issue. At the very least it indicates communication issues but often it is because the person is more than a friend.

If my husband said that some guy was an issue for him, even if I knew body, mind and soul he was wrong, I would,go NC with the guy. It would be time to focus on the M, our communication and trust.

The fact your WW isn't doing that is very telling.


"Being in love" first moved them to promise fidelity: this quieter love enables them to keep the promise. *CS Lewis*

Posts: 11186 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: Just a fool in limbo
Topic Posts: 53