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User Topic: Anger Phase! Help?
KBeguile
Member
Member # 38348
Default  Posted: 8:02 PM, June 4th (Tuesday)

I think Heart's entered the "Anger Phase," and I want to be able to help her through this. I want to help her heal proactively, rather than just helping sweep up the pieces in her wake. Any suggestions?


Me: fWS 32
Her: BS 35 (HeartInADustpan)
DS: 4yo
M: 7 years
DDays: 2012/11/14, 2013/02/05, 2013/03/09
-
"Everything that happens now is happening 'now.'"
"What happened to 'then'?"
"We passed 'then.'"

Posts: 801 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: St. Louis
hardlessons
Member
Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 8:17 PM, June 4th (Tuesday)

Be available, present and ensure that you do not: Justify, blame shift or argue ANYTHING! If she tells you the sky is purple, say yes ma'am it is a beautiful purple hue.

Good luck. How is your internal work going?


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 880 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
1Faith
Member
Member # 38975
Default  Posted: 8:24 PM, June 4th (Tuesday)


Coming from a very angered BW - you can't fix this. It's a stage. Please look up,the 5 stages of grief for infidelity.

My recommendation is to say "I am sorry my choices put you and us here - if I could change it I would"
Apologize for hurting her but do not bring up the A.

She will and then just simply say you are sorry and that you love her.

There is nothing rational about anger but it is a HUGE part of her healing process.

She has to get through it.

Don't shut down but don't overcompensate either. Sorry that's not much of an answer but it is truly a fine line.

Please let her get the anger out if not it will rear it's ugly head down the line.

Stand by and be there


"I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it." - Maya Angelou

Posts: 1219 | Registered: Apr 2013
KBeguile
Member
Member # 38348
Default  Posted: 8:47 PM, June 4th (Tuesday)

hardlessons said:
How is your internal work going?

Since I have no real basis to go on except myself and what Heart tells me, at least until I see IC, then I think I'm doing well. I'm about to start reading the book you suggested, and I've been contemplating a lot regarding my most recent outburst.

1Faith said:

Stand by and be there

I am happy to be here, even if I must watch her in pain.


Me: fWS 32
Her: BS 35 (HeartInADustpan)
DS: 4yo
M: 7 years
DDays: 2012/11/14, 2013/02/05, 2013/03/09
-
"Everything that happens now is happening 'now.'"
"What happened to 'then'?"
"We passed 'then.'"

Posts: 801 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: St. Louis
sodamnlost
Member
Member # 37190
Default  Posted: 8:59 PM, June 4th (Tuesday)

Be available, present and ensure that you do not: Justify, blame shift or argue ANYTHING! If she tells you the sky is purple, say yes ma'am it is a beautiful purple hue.

GREAT advice! WH doesn't handle the anger well usually but when he does - the little things help. When he quietly brings me my diet coke without me asking or makes me food. Watch your defensiveness. Not sure if it's an issue but the tiniest bit from him and it is ON.


If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck - it's not a fluffy pink unicorn squirting liquid rainbows, complete with pots of gold out of it's ass.

Posts: 769 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: Nowhere pretty
hardlessons
Member
Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 9:16 PM, June 4th (Tuesday)

KB, glad your gonna read EI by neumann.

What is Heart doing that makes you think she is in the anger phase?


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 880 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
KBeguile
Member
Member # 38348
Default  Posted: 9:59 PM, June 4th (Tuesday)

She's not "riding the rollercoaster" any more. She doesn't spend time being depressed or ambivalent. The only emotion that surfaces for her is anger, and when it does, it gives her the shakes and takes her over for a time.


Me: fWS 32
Her: BS 35 (HeartInADustpan)
DS: 4yo
M: 7 years
DDays: 2012/11/14, 2013/02/05, 2013/03/09
-
"Everything that happens now is happening 'now.'"
"What happened to 'then'?"
"We passed 'then.'"

Posts: 801 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: St. Louis
courageous
Member
Member # 34477
Default  Posted: 11:04 PM, June 4th (Tuesday)

No that's still the roller coaster... It's just lingering in the anger section.

Continue to be as transparent as possible and don't lie about anything. I know that is what really set me off.

I was a passive person and the anger phase had me screaming so loud my head hurt (of course I was in false R and catching more lies).

If my wh had just shown true remorse for what he had done and said he was sorry I think that would have taken a little of the wind out of my sails.


Me: BW (35)
Him: ExWH (31) EA/PA with MOW coworker
Married 9 years, 2 small kids
dday 3/12/2011 divorced fall 2012

My ipad does a lot of crazy typos.


Posts: 652 | Registered: Jan 2012
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 1:26 AM, June 5th (Wednesday)

Don't make one iota of this about you. It isn't. This is about her pain. Don't feel bad about how hard this is for you, continue to reach out and move toward her until she tells you otherwise. When it happens the next time move forward again unless she tells you otherwise, in other words don't let YOUR fear of her being angry hold you back. Because right now, this isn't about you.

Good luck.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5093 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
itainteasy
Member
Member # 31094
Default  Posted: 8:56 AM, June 5th (Wednesday)

When she's raging, tell her you're sorry for bringing this into your lives. Tell her you're sorry for destroying her.

Be present. Be all in.


Posts: 3423 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: NWPA
nowiknow23
Guide
Member # 33226
Default  Posted: 2:43 PM, June 5th (Wednesday)

I want to help her heal proactively, rather than just helping sweep up the pieces in her wake. Any suggestions?
A lot of good suggestions here. I just want to add one major point - let go of any notion or expectation of control that you may have, whether conscious or unconscious.

This is part of Heart's journey. She alone sets the path, the pace, and the stops.


You can call me NIK

"If you carry joy in your heart, you can heal any moment."
- Carlos Santana


Posts: 25842 | Registered: Aug 2011
1Faith
Member
Member # 38975
Default  Posted: 3:21 PM, June 5th (Wednesday)

5 stages of grief - how it applies to infidelity


Posting from another site. This will help you understand that the rollercoaster goes on and on.


I encourage you to read it all. It will give you understanding of the process you find what your wife is struggling with.

I typed it word for word as not to alter the original authors words, so please, when reading this substitute death for betrayal and the one that died for the WS. I think also, this is something the WS can read and apply to their healing process, making their own exchanges for death and the one who has died. Make no mistake we all grieve terribly after infidelity, it is the death of life as we knew it, whether we reconcile or not. The WS is also grieving who they thought they were.

EXPERIENCES OF GRIEF

Grief is a normal and natural reaction to the death of a loved one. Most of us are not prepared for the long journey of grief which is sometimes devastating, frightening, and often lonely. We may think, do, and say things that are very unlike us. There seems to be no respite, no end to the intense feelings that we experience

Grief has been likened to a raw open wound. With great care it eventually will heal but there will always be a scar. Life will never be the same but eventually you will get better.

The experiences of grief have been compared to enduring a fierce storm at sea. The waves are peaked and close together. Eventually the sea becomes calmer, but occasionally the storm regroups, strengthening without any warning. For several hours, days, or weeks, you may not feel grief; then suddenly you meet someone, or see something, or hear something, and grief resumes. It seems as if you are taking one step forward and two back.

Grief has its common and its unique sides. Although it is a universal experience, no two people grieve the same, even in the same family. Like a snowflake or a fingerprint, each person’s grief has characteristics all its own.

It is important to understand some of the following concepts about grief:

GRIEF WORK: The expression “grief work” is very true. It may be the hardest work that you will ever perform. It is draining.

CONTROL: We CANNOT control the feelings that arise within us. These feelings come from deep inside, but we can choose what to do with them. We can accept or reject them. To deny only prolongs our grief. Remember, what we do determines whether we remain in our grief of survive. Feelings are not bad or wrong. They should be recognized and faced honestly.

MAJOR DECISIONS: It is strongly suggested not to make major decisions (such as moving, money matters, etc.) unless absolutely necessary during the early stages of grief when judgment is cloudy. The conventional wisdom, “Never act in haste” was never more applicable.

LISTENER(S): Find someone who will listen Talking is therapy.

GRIEF HAS NO TIMETABLE: Grief often takes much longer than the bereaved or the people in their lives expect. It helps to take one hour, one day at a time.

REMEMBER: People have natural inclination to recover. Eventually, you’ll look back and realize; you weren’t going crazy…you were grieving.

BE PATIENT WITH YOURSELF. RECOVERY TAKES TIME.

It is important to understand the various experiences of grief. Everyone does not necessarily go through every experience, nor do they go through them in any set order. Each person has his or her own timetable and his or her own style of grief. You may struggle with several feelings at the same time. The depth and duration of each experience is different for everyone. You may experience a feeling briefly, intermittently or struggle with it daily. Understanding the various phases helps you to cope. Knowing that others have gone through this pain and have eventually been able to reinvest themselves in life gives one a sense of HOPE.

THE STAGES OF GRIEF:

DISBELIEF: “It can’t be true.” You keep thinking that any minute you will wake up from a bad dream/nightmare. Sometimes you can’t cry at first because you don’t really believe it happened. Often people will comment on “How well you are doing.” Inside you know that the reason you appear to be doing so well is that you just don’t believe it.

SHOCK: Shock is nature’s way of softening the blow. It serves as a cushion, giving you time to absorb the fact of your loss. You hear the words, but do not comprehend the full impact. Emotions seem frozen. You feel disoriented, restless, numb, bewildered, stunned and unable to think. It takes everything just to function. You go through the motions like a robot and feel as if you are an observer watching this happen to someone else.

SOBBING/CRYING: Sobbing means to weep aloud with short, gasping breaths. Sobbing is an outlet for the deep strong emotions that accompany the death of a loved one. Some people cry often and cry a lot. Others push down their tears, but this may lead to psychological or physical problems. It is helpful to cry - to release all that pent-up emotion. Cry alone or with others - but take time to cry. The book, “When Going to Pieces Holds You Together,” says it very well. The advice “don’t cry” is ill advised. Accept the grief - don’t try to be brave and fight it. At first, you need to take time to grieve daily. Looking at pictures/mementoes, playing special music, may aid in releasing pent-up tears. Men can and should cry. Crying is a good model for children. When adults cry, children learn that it is “okay” to cry and to express their feelings. Children learn to share their feelings instead of suppressing them and struggling alone.

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: You may experience some of the following: lack or increase of appetite; sleeplessness or over sleeping; knot or emptiness in pit of stomach; tightness in throat; shaky legs; headaches; stomach aches; sighing to get your breath; trembling; chills; fatigue; chest pains; general achiness; difficulty swallowing and/or speaking; digestive disorders (indigestion, nausea, diarrhea); feeling weak/faint; tension; slower in speech/movement; temporary paralysis of limb or sight. It helps to understand some of these symptoms may be a part of grief and emerge anytime. It is advisable to have a physical checkup to make sure that there is not another cause for your physical ailments. Take care of yourself by establishing a simple routine (good nutrition, adequate rest and time for relaxation). Exercise aids sleep and my lighten depression.

DENIAL: The phone will ring, the door opens, or you will see someone, and at first you think that it is your loved one. You may subconsciously be searching for your loved one when out in a crowd. It takes time to believe what happened. Even though you know the fact of death, you continue not to really believe it. Many habits continue, such as setting the table for the same number, expecting your loved one to come home at the regular time, buying his/her favorite food, watching a T.V. program and saying; “I’ve got to tell him/her what happened.” This shows our unconscious denial of their death. Denial provides a buffer zone from the reality of what has happened.

Ami note: The denial for a person separated from a spouse after infidelity would most likely happen similar to a death. But with a person still living with a spouse the denial is different. It is more centered in believing that things are still the same and then coming up short to realize the person across the dinner table from you is not the person you thought they were. There is a very strong to desire to continue life as it was before, but it just doesn’t feel the same. It is the same but different.

WHY: Often we keep asking “WHY?” “Why did he/she have to die?” We don’t necessarily expect an answer, but the question “WHY” seems to need to be asked repeatedly in an effort to make sense of the loss The question may be unanswered, but it is important to ask the question until we can take the step of letting the question go. Rabbi Kushner states in his book “WHY DO BAD THINGS HAPPEN TO GOOD PEOPLE that the “why” is not a question, but a cry of pain.

REPETITION: You may find that you are saying almost the same things to the same people. The same thoughts keep running through your head. In saying the words and hearing ourselves over and over again, it helps us to believe what has happened. It is important to find friends who will listen, especially someone who has experienced a similar sorrow.

REALITY OF DEATH: “It’s True.” “It really happened.” This is a frightening time. We feel that we are getting worse. Often this happens after people who have been so helpful have left. It seems as if we are going backwards. Actually, this reality has to “hit.” The best advice is to “lean into the pain.” As much as we don’t want to hurt, we must.

CONFUSION: “I can’t think.” “I forget what I am saying halfway through a sentence.” The simplest decisions seem impossible. It is difficult to concentrate and follow through on things. You feel disorganized and error-prone. Bereaved often feel impatient and want to do something, but feel unclear as to what to do. Sometimes motivation to do something may be very low and basic survival needs may not even be met. Confusion abounds because you are using all your emotional energy to grieve and there is very little left over for anything else. The weariness due to grief may affect thinking and concentration.

IDEALIZATION: At first you may only focus on the best qualities - seeing your loved one as perfect. It is a very normal reaction, but it is important to be aware of others in the family. They may compare themselves to the “perfect” loved one and feel that they are not as loved - that it would be better if they had died instead.

Ami note: I think this is where many of us get into trouble. We end up blaming ourselves for our WS’s failures.

IDENTIFICATION: Many people seek to identify with their loved one who has died by wearing their clothes, taking up a sport they liked, planning to follow in their footsteps, etc. It is a way of “staying close.”

ANXIETY/PANIC (Fear of loosing control): At first you may fear being alone. You worry about the future and may be afraid that something else will happen to another loved one. You often panic at the approach of special dates (birthdays, holidays, anniversary of the death). Usually they are not as difficult as the days prior to the special days. This is due to our unbelievable panic and apprehension. You may feel as if you are “GOING CRAZY.” It may seem as if you are losing control of yourself. Usually we don’t tell anyone that we think that we are “going insane.” Sometimes bereaved have thoughts of suicide as the only way to escape the physical and emotional pain. We panic at the prospect of “always feeling like this.” We feel that we should be doing better and panic when we don’t. Our Situation may seem hopeless and our thinking becomes jumbled. Panic is normal. If panic seems intolerable, you need to do something about it. Talking about our feelings, getting busy with something, sobbing, screaming, exercise - all may help to release the “panicky” feelings. Emotional and physical fatigue contribute to our panic. Good nutrition and rest are vital.

BARGAINING: You want “things to be as they were.” You may hope that just wishing will bring back the person. You may try to bargain with God “that things will be different:” that you will try to be a better person if only the loved one can be alive again.

DEPRESSION: It is a feeling of being in the “pits.” You hurt so much. Sometimes you just don’t care about anything. You just sit. Mornings are terrible. So is the time and the day of the week that your loved one died. It’s an effort just to get out of bed, to shop, or fix a simple meal. Talk things over with a friend who cares and will listen. This is one action that may help a person not to become seriously depressed. Talking to others in a support group of bereaved people who know what you are going through also helps a great deal.

SEVERE DEPRESSION: It is a feeling of deep, overwhelming sadness and hopelessness that lasts for longer than two weeks. Other symptoms may be; loss of appetite: insomnia; inability to enjoy anything; anxious or restless behavior; apathy; preoccupation with thoughts of suicide; wishing to be dead; loss of interest in sex; difficulty in concentration and making decisions; poor memory; irritability; feelings of worthlessness; inability to cry even if one desperately needs and wants to; intense quilt and withdrawal from relatives and friends. It is important for bereaved people not to become alarmed, because everyone experiences some or all of these symptoms at some time. If six or more of these symptoms are severe and continue over an extended period of time (so that pain and problems outweigh pleasure much of the time), then it would be advisable to get professional help.

RELIEF (laughter): This phase comes and goes. Often after the reality “hits,” or after a particularly troublesome time, you feel better and may even think that the difficult times are over. There is a sense of great relief at no longer feeling down. Appreciate the relief…the grief will return soon enough. It is helpful to recall the fun times. Wholesome fun and laughter are beneficial. It is not being disloyal to our loved one to enjoy life. In fact, plan things to which you can look forward. Having a sense of humor is often mentioned by bereaved as being helpful.

EXPECTATIONS: We often expect too much of ourselves. We want to handle the grief better and more quickly than is humanly possible. Submerging our feelings is very detrimental because we still have to face these feelings eventually. The expectations of others, “You must be over your grief by now,” only adds to our burden. Often we will expect that after the holidays, or after some special day, we will feel “much better.” This kind of expectation only hinders the grief process. It is more helpful not to have a timetable of how we should feel, or when we will get better. Taking one day at a time, or half a day, or one hour at time is more realistic.

Ami note: Expectations is a very important one. Read it several times.

LOWERED SELF-ESTEEM: A bereaved person’s confidence is often undermined. In a study on self-esteem using a scale of 100, it was found that an average person’s self-esteem was in the 70’s and generally a bereaved person’s was in the teens. (Ami note: I am sure this is the same for a person dealing with infidelity). Understanding the impact of grief on your self-esteem may help you find ways of coping.

PREOCCUPATION: Your loved one who has died may be in your thoughts constantly. You may think of nothing but the loss. You may even dream of your loved one, or be preoccupied with his/her image. Even at work, church, doing the dishes - - in fact, no matter what you are doing -- you may find that part of your thoughts are always about your loved one. The intensity of this preoccupation usually lessens with time.

GUILT: Many people are tortured by “if only,” and “what ifs.” “If only I had called;” “If only we hadn’t let him/her take the car that night;” or “If only I had taken time to listen and visit.” We tend to blame ourselves for something we did/didn’t do that may have contributed to the death, or for things that we wish we had done for our loved one. Feelings of guilt are normal, though often not realistic. It is best not to push down the guilt. Talk about it until you can let it go. Hopefully, in time, you will realize that you did the best you could under the circumstances. None of us are perfect. The past is behind us. All we can do with guilt is to learn from it for the other people in our lives. When the death is by suicide, it is especially important to remember we can’t control the behavior of another person.

ANGER: Anger may be directed at ourselves; others (including family members, spouse, doctors, nurses, person who caused accident); the person who died; God; or we may experience a general irritability. We may feel angry towards people who push us to accept our loss too soon, or who pretend that nothing happened. Anger is normal Pushing down anger is harmful and may cause things like ulcers, high blood pressure, or depression. Unacknowledged anger may be directed at innocent people and unrelated events. It will come out one way or another. It is often difficult to admit being angry. Erroneously we may think, “nice people don’t get angry.” It is important to recognize our anger. It is helpful to find ways to express our anger, such as screaming in a private place, walking, swimming, aerobic classes, tennis, golf - even installing a punching bag in our home. Talking about our anger also helps us define, understand, and learn how to handle it. To suppress anger can lead to deeper than normal depression and bitterness. It is important to acknowledge our anger and to take steps to handle it.

LONELINESS: After the initial help, relatives/friends usually pick up their own lives and we are often left to deal with our grief alone. Co-workers, friends neighbors and sometimes even family may avoid us or change the subject. Some friends withdraw, because they are hurting, and do not know how to help us. We often become isolated in our grief. The widowed often say, “I not only lost my spouse, by my friends as well.” In reality, few people are able to help or to understand. Support groups can be helpful. Some aspects of grief can not be totally shared, even in the same family. It is difficult for husbands and wives to help each other. As Harriett Schiff, author of The Bereaved Parent states: “It is difficult to lean on someone who is already doubled over in pain.” Especially at first when we are hurting so much, we realize that we are not much fun for others to be around. When others have all their loved ones alive, it makes us feel even lonelier. We may feel intense loneliness due to the absence of our loved one, because we are unable to share thoughts and feelings, to touch, to be understood. We feel empty with out our loved one.

DESPAIR: “How can I go on?” You may come the point where the agony seems intolerable. You can’t bear it - you think that you won’t be able to survive. Your hopes/dreams are dashed. It may seem as if there would be little difference if you lived or died. You may have suicidal thoughts: feelings or desperation, despondency, pessimism and loss of all hope seem to surround you. If you are a smoker you may smoke more than ever due to nervousness, or to an attitude that you don’t care if you ever take care of yourself again. Sometimes it is blackest before the burden of grief begins to lift. Talk to someone who has made it through grief.

SADNESS: We miss our loved one and feel deprived of his/her presence. We may feel unhappy, inconsolable, distressed, sorrowful dejected and heartbroken. These feelings seem tp pervade our life.

HELPLESSNESS: “What am I going to do?” We feel helpless about our feelings… our grief. It seems as if we are unable to help ourselves to cope, or to get better. We do not seem to be capable of aiding other family members. We may feel self-pity. Although we realize that we had no control over what happened, we feel a sense of powerlessness at not being able to prevent it.

ENVY: You may feel jealous of peole who still have their loved ones to enjoy. With a child’s death, dreams for their future are gone. This pertains to college, job, wedding, grandchildren - things you would have shared together. When a spouse dies, you envy others watching their children/grandchildren grow up and enjoying retirement together.

FRUSTRATION: Many frustrations are a part of our grief. “Why am I feeling so upset for so long?” We become disappointed with ourselves that we are not coping as well as we think we should. So many impulses, thoughts, feelings and actions that had become habits are stopped in mid-course. We are left with these unfulfilled emotions, desires and thoughts buzzing about in our heads or sitting in our stomachs.

RESENTMENT/BITTERNESS/HATRED: Bereaved, people often feel resentful about the death and their circumstances. Sometimes there is a (sub) conscious hostility towards others whose families are still intact. Some bereaved feel hatred toward those responsible for the death. These bitter feelings should be recognized and worked on, or the bitterness could last for many years. Hatred and bitterness drain you of energy and may be destructive to your health and relationships. When these feelings are left unattended, healing becomes blocked.

LIMBO: Eventually we may reach an in-between point between the reality of death and the point where life seems worthwhile again. We may feel a little better at last, but be uncertain of what to do next. It may take much longer than we would like before our zest for living returns. We often live behind a façade - masking our feelings and saying that “we are fine.”

HOPE EMERGES: You realize that your grief is softening. At first the pain was with you constantly. Now the pain of grief is briefer and comes less frequently. The good days outbalance the bad days. You feel encouraged that you will get better. Things like shopping (which had been so painful before), painting the living room, looking forward to events, etc., all become a part of your life again. Once again you are effective at work and home, able to make decisions and handle problems. Generally you are able to sleep and eat as you did before. You are able to care about others. You begin to realize that you are moving forward and can once again enjoy life. You smile and laugh once again and are rewarded with the smiles of family, friends and strangers.

MISSING: You will always miss your loved one. Special family events, such as holidays, birthdays, weddings, anniversaries, even a song or a special T.V. program, will trigger the feeling of longing for your loved one. Seeing other families enjoying special events “that might have been for you” also deepens your feelings of yearning You can’t help but wish your loved one were alive. You miss countless things that were special about your relationship…a hug, a kiss, a smile, a phone call, or hearing them say “I love your,” or “thank you.” For some people when there was a special relationship, the missing can be more acute. If relatives do not live at home, they may find coming home for a visit especially difficult. Their feelings of missing, anger, guilt, etc. may be intensified. The reality of the death is more believable at home where the loved one is undeniably missing.

STRUGGLE WITH NEW LIFE PATTERNS: You realize that you have a choice. You can rebuild a new life. It will be different without your loved one, but life can be enjoyed again. It is important to seek meaning in living. Learn how to make happiness happen in your life. It is estimated that between 70% and 90% of marriages where a child has died become endangered and end in separation and /or divorce. It is important to be aware of such statistics and to renew the marriage. You need to reinvest in work, activities and friends. New friends can be found among other bereaved. You may find it necessary or helpful to move, find a job, do volunteer work, join a support group, etc. Be open to renewing familiar patterns and friendships, but be ready to try new ways of living.

LIFE IS WORTH LIVING: Eventually we are able to think and talk about our loved one with happiness and sense of peace. We have learned to accept the death and can see options and possibilities for the future. We may experience renewed meaning in life. There is the possibility of emotional, spiritual and personal growth. Often we become a different person - - stronger, more involved, wiser, more compassionate, concerned, understanding and aware. Our loved ones have entered a beautiful new life without pain and problems. We will be together someday. Meanwhile, they would want us to live, love and appreciate this life and the people in our life to the fullest.

PRIDE: This feeling was not listed on the original graph and yet for many of us it greatly affected how we handled our grief. It is placed in the middle of the graph to show how it can negatively color so many other experiences of grief. For many of us, we are too “proud” to ask for or accept help. When asked how we are feeling we say “fine.” - when in realty we are falling apart inside. We are apt to think “I can do it by myself,” not realizing how unprepared we are for the death of a loved one. Sharing such deep grief does help us to cope and understand. The verb “be proud” means to hold one’s self high, to turn one’s head. Bereaved so often do this to overcompensate for how really low they feel. We are stubborn about letting anyone know how we feel. This makes it difficult for others to give us the help we so desperately need. We should consider if our grief is being complicated by our PRIDE, and if so work on ourselves to ask for and accept help.

Ami note: The graph mentioned in pride shows all feelings in an up and down pattern. There is no set path and other than the first symptoms of 1) Disbelief, shock, 2) sobbing, crying 3) physical symptoms 4) why, 5) Denial always being the beginning we can go back and forth throw all of them, including the first 5 many times on the journey to healing.

*Unfortunately no author was givin at the beginning, middle, or end of the article, so do credit can not be noted.


"I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it." - Maya Angelou

Posts: 1219 | Registered: Apr 2013
MoreWould
Member
Member # 37982
Default  Posted: 5:37 PM, June 5th (Wednesday)

I can only tell you what I wished my FWW had done when I was there. And later, what I tried to do when I'd put the shoe on the other foot.

Don't ever say "I said I was sorry." Just say "I'm sorry" again.

Don't ever say, "Why are you asking?" or "I already told you.", just answer the question.

If she wants you to stay, stay in the room even if you don't say a word.

If she wants you to leave, leave the room, or the house. Don't say a word.

Practice small kindnesses: bring food, liquids, flowers, and chocolate.

Hold her if she wants to be held, don't touch her at all if she doesn't want to be touched.

If she yells, don't yell back.

Don't ever, ever, ever say, "Aren't you over this yet?"

I hope you get the picture. This is her healing, "she controls the vertical, she controls the horizontal".

You, the humble servant.

[This message edited by MoreWould at 6:24 PM, June 5th (Wednesday)]


Me BH/WH, 63
Her WW/BW, 62
Her DDay Dec 1976 OMW at the door
My DDay, ~ 2years later, confessed ONS the next day
R via "Sweeping under the rug"
Still married, 40 yrs, mostly OK
2 kids, 24 & 20

Posts: 357 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Colorado
KBeguile
Member
Member # 38348
Default  Posted: 8:05 PM, June 5th (Wednesday)

MoreWould said:
I hope you get the picture. This is her healing, "she controls the vertical, she controls the horizontal".

You, the humble servant.

I like this. Thank you.

ETA:

1Faith, I really appreciate your taking all that time to type all of that out for my benefit. I especially found your notes to be worthwhile. Is there any chance someone could add this to the Healing Library, if something like it isn't already there?

[This message edited by KBeguile at 8:10 PM, June 5th (Wednesday)]


Me: fWS 32
Her: BS 35 (HeartInADustpan)
DS: 4yo
M: 7 years
DDays: 2012/11/14, 2013/02/05, 2013/03/09
-
"Everything that happens now is happening 'now.'"
"What happened to 'then'?"
"We passed 'then.'"

Posts: 801 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: St. Louis
nofool4u
Member
Member # 38509
Default  Posted: 12:27 PM, June 10th (Monday)

In addition to what everyone else said, when she gets angry, you DO NOT get defensive. You caused this anger. She is now entitled to vent.


Me - fBS

Posts: 210 | Registered: Feb 2013
1Faith
Member
Member # 38975
Default  Posted: 5:36 PM, June 10th (Monday)

I was right there with your wife.

Anger and justification for my anger. I had memorized every email my FWH exchanged with the OW. FWH called it emotional cutting.

We'd have a wonderful couple of weeks and then, I'd sink back into my post DDay shell and wallow in my pain again....usually for no apparent reason.

Here's what I know now: Sometimes we need to validate our pain, justify our ever changing emotions.

Texts and/or emails are the proof of why you hurt so much. For me, the emails confirmed why I became so crazy and so angry for so long. When I reread the emails, I was able to give myself a bit of a break for being such a nut job for over a year.

During the first year after DDay, I often hated myself for not being able to suck it up, get over it and move on.

Before the A, I was always a very strong woman. Nothing kept me down. After the A, I was so broken. The old me was absent without leave.

Until I found this forum and others, I was a very lost soul.

Even after I found this healing place I revisited the emails. Without realizing what I was doing, I was using them to remind myself that I wasn't weak.

Those emails were proof positive that all I was going through was normal and I was doing pretty damn good...considering.

I eventually weaned myself off the email/texts. And came to terms the A was something that happened NOT something that was happening.

Anger is used as a crutch, I get that. Crutches help you heal when you are wounded, but you don't need it forever.

Good luck. Hope things get better soon.


"I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it." - Maya Angelou

Posts: 1219 | Registered: Apr 2013
cpacan
New Member
Member # 35883
Default  Posted: 6:24 AM, June 11th (Tuesday)

All of the above is good advise on how to handle the anger.

I'll just add one thing: If you love your spouse, don't fear the anger. Anger is often rooted in fear, in this case fear of losing something.

Where you should pay very close attention, and I speak from my own experiences, is when she shows signs of indifference. This means she is detaching to protect herself. Then it'll definitely be a different ball game.


BS (me): 47
WS: 44
Together for 27 years...
2 kids, 12 and 9
DD: april 2011, 9 months PA

Posts: 15 | Registered: Jun 2012
KBeguile
Member
Member # 38348
Default  Posted: 7:14 AM, June 11th (Tuesday)

cpacan said:
I'll just add one thing: If you love your spouse, don't fear the anger. Anger is often rooted in fear, in this case fear of losing something.

Where you should pay very close attention, and I speak from my own experiences, is when she shows signs of indifference. This means she is detaching to protect herself. Then it'll definitely be a different ball game.

This. This makes total sense, given all the discussions we've had.

Thank you all in this thread. I have been given a lot of hope.


Me: fWS 32
Her: BS 35 (HeartInADustpan)
DS: 4yo
M: 7 years
DDays: 2012/11/14, 2013/02/05, 2013/03/09
-
"Everything that happens now is happening 'now.'"
"What happened to 'then'?"
"We passed 'then.'"

Posts: 801 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: St. Louis
hardlessons
Member
Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 12:20 PM, June 11th (Tuesday)

Where you should pay very close attention, and I speak from my own experiences, is when she shows signs of indifference. This means she is detaching to protect herself. Then it'll definitely be a different ball game.

Why? Paying close attention will just get you a front row seat to someone else making choices. A waywards healing NEEDS to be about the waywards choices. What if she detaches? Then the wayward should focus more on the BS? How will that fix them? It doesn't. The key to a wayward earning the F(former) is aggressively fixing their own shit. If we have our eyes constantly focused on our BS how will that happen? It won't and the crazy train will keep making its regular stops for both involved. IMO


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 880 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
Topic Posts: 19