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User Topic: Business trips
nofool4u
Member
Member # 38509
Default  Posted: 12:41 PM, June 10th (Monday)

As most of you know, I'm divorced. I'm also now dating someone who I'm fairly serious with.

Here is something I simply wonder if any of you have dealt with. WS's probably have had to do this, so you are welcome to chime in.

Again, I have never been a WS, much less cheated on someone. But I am also aware of the inter-office politics/relationships, etc.

We have a woman at our work that has been known to sleep around with a few of the guys. All the women here hate her, and my girlfriend knows her.

So what happened is that I was set to go to a conference, and this woman was included. Now it is common knowledge in the company AND with the supervisors that she has had relations with some of the men here, married men and herself being married.

So I had to have a closed door session with my boss and tell him that I will not go to this conference with her that either I need not go, or go some other time, or she not go. Even though I'm not a cheater, I don't want to go with her because, to be quite honest, she disgusts me and I don't want my girlfriend to worry. She trusts me, but that still doesn't mean she'd be ok with me going away with this skank being part of the party.

Has anyone else had to talk to their bosses to tell them you refuse to go to a convention/business trip with a particular person because they are a cheater, OW or OM? Even if you yourself haven't cheated?


Me - fBS

Posts: 210 | Registered: Feb 2013
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, June 10th (Monday)

I have not been in this situation...but Im curious as to what your boss said when you told him you wouldn't go if officeslut went?

[This message edited by confused615 at 12:45 PM, June 10th (Monday)]


BS(me)41
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,9
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: R? I don't know..ask me tomorrow..it changes rapidly.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 6655 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
KeepCalm_CarryOn
Member
Member # 33374
Default  Posted: 12:51 PM, June 10th (Monday)

Are there others going or would it just be you two?

I'm a little confused as to why you feel the need to draw such a hard line in the sand? Don't get me wrong, we all need to have our boundaries and those are great, but you're not a WS. You didn't cheat. If your current girlfriend is nervous, we know there are ways to reassure- Skype, pictures, phone calls often, etc.

I too am curious what your boss said...


You are not dealing with rational people or situations. Normal thought processes won't work...story of my life.

Me- BW, 28
Him- fWh, 34
Mostly R'd, minus a few scars...bought a house and got a puppy...And baby makes 3! She arrived August


Posts: 1957 | Registered: Sep 2011
momentintime
Member
Member # 16394
Default  Posted: 2:26 PM, June 10th (Monday)

If I were the boss I would seriously wonder if you were a notch on her belt and trying to get even and further blemish her rep Also, if you weren't, you are interfering in her career when you have no business to do so. So what if she goes to the conference and you have to also. Are you implying you are too weak to resist her or that your firm should just go along with your judgement of this woman?

Don't get me wrong I hate skanks but seriously you have put your career on the line...either they think you protest too much, or are very judgmental person. In the business world they don't care, or else she would be gone. You have drawn attention to yourself and not in a flattering light. JMHO.

[This message edited by momentintime at 2:27 PM, June 10th (Monday)]


BS-me FWS - him
D-day 8/04
R'd

"Global editing disclaimer - I edit almost everything I post, and I am not going to post why every time."...re: Bionical girl


Posts: 2824 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: New York
nofool4u
Member
Member # 38509
Default  Posted: 4:39 PM, June 10th (Monday)

I have not been in this situation...but Im curious as to what your boss said when you told him you wouldn't go if officeslut went?

He understood and allowed me to go at a different time with a few others who had a conflict.

I think they know this woman is a problem for alot of other employees, but they have to dance around the issue carefully for legal purposes. You'd think they could fire her for it.
But I think they do try to send her, when able to do so, with only other women to an out of town conference.

I sure as hell didn't want to come back and have everyone thinking things like, "Oh I bet they [insert expletive]"
And I'm sure it wouldn't have sit well with my gf either, and I wouldn't blame her.


Me - fBS

Posts: 210 | Registered: Feb 2013
twodoves
Member
Member # 39181
Default  Posted: 4:44 PM, June 10th (Monday)

I think you did the right thing


Me - BS
Him - WS (N3v3rG1v1ngUp)
Together 7 years, married for 2
He was cheating for 5 years
5 OW
D-days: 4/23/13, 4/27/13, 5/10/13
1 toddler, baby girl on the way in December

Posts: 160 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Illinois
nofool4u
Member
Member # 38509
Default  Posted: 4:44 PM, June 10th (Monday)

Don't get me wrong I hate skanks but seriously you have put your career on the line...either they think you protest too much, or are very judgmental person

No, didn't put my career on the line at all. My boss knows all too well about this woman and agrees with me.
Her superior even agrees that she shouldn't be sent on business trips with other men. Her position isn't one that makes it impossible to do it that way either. She only goes to one convention a year and its mostly women anyway.

They needed me to go to this one and my boss knew full well it wasn't going to be a good idea anyway. Not that they wouldn't trust me to do the right thing, but the last thing they need is this woman boning any other colleagues, or rumors that she boned a colleague on a business trip.

You'd have to know the situation. Its pretty bad and management knows this woman is a problem, but hesitate to do anything about her probably out of fear she will sue.

So my request to not go with her was not unreasonable and understood.

And yes, there would have been a couple other women going with, but that is beside the point.

Are you implying you are too weak to resist her or that your firm should just go along with your judgement of this woman?

Nope, I'm a rock. But that doesn't stop people in the office from talking, and its the last thing I need. Trust me, everyone talks about her, the women there all hate her guts and don't want her around their husbands. I trust myself just fine. But I don't want to put myself in a situation where my career is put in jeopardy simply because of being at the same trip as her. Not only that, my gf wouldn't feel real great about it, and I don't blame her. Not that she doesn't trust me. She doesn't trust her.

This is the kind of woman that, not only does she have no qualms about cheating on her husband and sleeping with married colleagues, would make up stories of things that didn't happen. Best thing for me is to not be around so she can't spread anything at all.

You mentioned messing with her career? Absolutely not. I'm protecting mine. All I asked is that either she is reassigned to another date, or I be. Last thing I need is the office thinking I'm engaged in inappropriate relations with her. And they WOULD think that too, no matter how much I wouldn't have anything to do with her.

[This message edited by nofool4u at 4:51 PM, June 10th (Monday)]


Me - fBS

Posts: 210 | Registered: Feb 2013
Dark Inertia
Member
Member # 30727
Default  Posted: 4:54 PM, June 10th (Monday)

Here is what it boils down to: This woman makes nofool4u uncomfortable.

The office slut makes the OP uneasy enough that he does not want to go to a meeting in her company. I would hope if I was in a similar situation people would be understanding of my reasons and not question whether I slept with someone or me being defensive.

I also think this is one of those situations where the responses to this thread would be different if the genders were reversed.

[This message edited by Dark Inertia at 5:01 PM, June 10th (Monday)]


"If I listened earlier, I wouldn't be here. But that's just the trouble with me. I give myself very good advice, but I very seldom follow it."

Posts: 1102 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: The Ohio
BeyondBreaking
Member
Member # 38020
Default  Posted: 5:37 PM, June 10th (Monday)

I have never been in this situation, but in my company, business trips are a pretty big deal. I think that you acted completely inappropriately, and you are lucky your boss didn't fire you.

1) did your girlfriend ask that you not go because someone else who is going is a skank? Or did you decide to take it upon yourself to decide for her that you going on a trip wasn't a good choice?

2) I. Can kind of understand your reaction if it was just the two of you going and your company was asking that you share a hotel room. But if there was a group going, I think you should have just bucked up and gone. I doubt she is the only person on the planet you have ever had to work with who you didn't like.

3) has this woman ever hit on you personally? If so- why haven't you filed a sexual harassment complaint? If not- how do you know that the rumors are true? People around the office say a lot of things, that doesn't make it true or right. It could very well be that this woman is a hoe. Or, it could very well be that this woman is a little flirty, and the victim of rumors and a bad reputation. Unless she is hanging all over you, I don't think getting involved is very nice, or your business.

Personally, I don't care if my fiance goes on a business trip (ok, I would care WHERE), because there are very few females in his company and I trust him around every single one of them (despite his cheating). If one was flirty or had a bad reputation, I wouldn't care if she was on the same trip as him- I would expect him to maintain professional boundaries only.


I have been cheated on by 3 different men, and I have more DDays than anyone ever should. I am here, just trying to pickup the pieces.

At least the current man "only" cyber-cheated.

"Love means never having to say you're sorry."


Posts: 811 | Registered: Jan 2013
Lovedyoumore
Member
Member # 35593
Default  Posted: 5:59 PM, June 10th (Monday)

Good for you. I am sure there are many spouses that had done exactly what you did. Hurt her career? Being the company slut should hurt her career. Why should decent employees have to put up with indecent coworkers? Why, how, and how often she messes around is not your issue. You guarded yourself from a known threat before it became your issue. Nobody should have to walk into the lion's den to keep their job.


Me 52
WH 52
Married 30+ years
Together trying to R

I tell people I am tired but really my heart is broken and I am sad.


Posts: 1201 | Registered: May 2012 | From: South
Ladyogilvy
Member
Member # 31558
Default  Posted: 7:40 PM, June 10th (Monday)

Staying out of the zone of danger... Good for you. As business owners, we understand all too well the legal ramifications of someone like that in the office. Those are the kinds of people who go looking for lawsuits. Bringing it to your employer's attention gives them the opportunity to be more aware of the situation and protect themselves as well as other employees. Sounds like your employer saw it that way. I think that the suck it up and/or mind your own business attitude helps promote behavior that is destructive to everyone involved.


Me: BW a youthful 49
Him: alcoholic, sober now, WH 56
Married 19 years
Two sons, 16 & 17 years old
DD? He's still keeping secrets and only admits to what I have indisputable
evidence of... the $2000 earrings he bought her for x-mas.

Posts: 1512 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: California
nofool4u
Member
Member # 38509
Default  Posted: 3:34 PM, June 11th (Tuesday)

I have never been in this situation, but in my company, business trips are a pretty big deal. I think that you acted completely inappropriately, and you are lucky your boss didn't fire you.

My boss knows all too well about her. Nothing inappropriate at all about wanting to protect my own career by not wanting to go on a trip with the company slut.

And if I had went on that trip, the rumors would have flown all over.

There is a file on this woman, and all management knows about her inappropriate behavior at my workplace. I knew good and well my boss would agree and that my concerns were justified.

Besides, I didn't tell my boss, "either she goes, or I go" No ultimatum. I simply requested that I go on a different date.

Its real simple. Woman has many sexual relations with other men in the company, I was requested to go on a trip where she would be going as well, I wanted to protect my career. Simple as that. Making my gf feel at ease, although very much a secondary consideration, was a consideration nonetheless. Not that she'd be pissed or anything. She just wouldn't be all that jazzed about me going on a trip where the company slut is going.

Personally, I don't care if my fiance goes on a business trip (ok, I would care WHERE), because there are very few females in his company and I trust him around every single one of them (despite his cheating). If one was flirty or had a bad reputation, I wouldn't care if she was on the same trip as him

There is a big difference between going on a trip with someone with a bad reputation, and someone who has jumped in bed with several of the men there at the company. BIG difference. Last thing I need is rumors going around, which she has been known to brag about and start(whether true or not), and me being added to the list of men she has been with.

[This message edited by nofool4u at 3:45 PM, June 11th (Tuesday)]


Me - fBS

Posts: 210 | Registered: Feb 2013
Fleury
Member
Member # 24185
Default  Posted: 5:11 PM, June 11th (Tuesday)

I did something similar. A male co-worker gave me the creeps. Nothing overt. I was not comfortable with him. I told management that I was not going to travel with him.

Turns out my gut was right. Without going into detail he was fired because of some things in his desk. His wife divorced him over it. Not being alone with him in another city was smart. I also found out I wasn't the first or last that refused to travel with him.

You have to keep yourself safe and management needs to understand that. She could have accused you of things that could have ruined your career. You made the right call.


What have I done to deserve this life?

Posts: 378 | Registered: May 2009
nofool4u
Member
Member # 38509
Default  Posted: 5:20 PM, June 11th (Tuesday)

Fleury, exactly right!!

What gets me is management knows all about her, but again, because of legal issues, they won't fire her. They are afraid, from what I've heard, that she will sue if they try.

So if they can't fire a whore, why would they fire someone that doesn't want to travel with a whore?


Me - fBS

Posts: 210 | Registered: Feb 2013
Rebreather
Member
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 5:20 PM, June 11th (Tuesday)

I think you did the right thing, and I would think the company would be concerned to have someone like that on staff, who could create so much trouble for them.


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Recovering.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 5861 | Registered: Jan 2011
nofool4u
Member
Member # 38509
Default  Posted: 11:22 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

I think they are concerned. But my boss also confirmed, he is concerned about me, or anyone under his supervision, being comfortable going on a business trip.

I think he realized that, not that I would do it, that if anyone was forced to go on a trip with her, and something happened, that it could fall back on the company. If I voiced my concern, and they made me go anyway, and say she made a pass at me, then not only could I file suit against her, but I could against the company because I requested not to go with her. (Might not be able to file against her because it is away from the office, but still could against company because its a trip they mandated)
Again, not that I would do that to the company, but in this litigious society, I'm sure it happens.

[This message edited by nofool4u at 11:24 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)]


Me - fBS

Posts: 210 | Registered: Feb 2013
Hope24
Member
Member # 9344
Default  Posted: 11:56 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

And what about the male office sluts who are willingly messing around with this woman?

Sounds like your company has a culture of infidelity problem that can''t be pinned on one individual.


She packed up her potential and all she had learned and headed out to change a few things.

Posts: 7603 | Registered: Jan 2006 | From: Poolside
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 12:48 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

^^ great point.

You said you told your boss you were uncomfortable going on this trip because of the office slut..but you are ok with the married men who fucked around with her?

You said your boss is aware that this woman is a problem..but what about all those male coworkers..married men..who have slutted around with her? Why is this woman considered a problem,but these married men are not?


BS(me)41
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,9
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: R? I don't know..ask me tomorrow..it changes rapidly.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 6655 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
nofool4u
Member
Member # 38509
Default  Posted: 8:29 AM, June 13th (Thursday)

I don't associate with the men that bed her down either and think their wives deserve better.

But I'm not going on a trip with them. I was scheduled to go on one with her. Stick to the issue please. This is not a man vs woman thing.

The men are a problem as well, but they aren't pertinent to this particular situation of mine. They also are on the sh** list. My boss would be concerned about them as well, but they, along with this woman, are in a different department. They don't fall under him. He can only deal with a situation as it arises with one of his own employees.

Said person in this situation is a woman, and I am a man. Clear? If women in the office didn't want to go on a trip with one of these other skank men, I wouldn't blame them a bit.

Why do I get the feeling that if the sex roles were reversed, I'd get much different responses?

[This message edited by nofool4u at 8:58 AM, June 13th (Thursday)]


Me - fBS

Posts: 210 | Registered: Feb 2013
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 2:02 AM, June 15th (Saturday)

I think they know this woman is a problem for alot of other employees, but they have to dance around the issue carefully for legal purposes. You'd think they could fire her for it.

Bullshit. I find your entire story odd. If any one in my company was getting around like that generating that type of drama they'd be gone.

You've stated 16 ways how you are not a WS and never cheated. Dude. Calm down. The disclaimers aren't necessary with every sentence.

You are positively frothing about this "slut" whom EVERY one hates. Um, what about the married men? They caught in her web. She chloroforms them?

I've had to take business trips with men whose behavior is less than stellar. Haven't had one issue. Never. I go. I work. I go back to my hotel. I don't put myself in questionable positions. No talk, no gossip, no issues.

To me, you've drawn more attention to yourself with your actions than just going, doing your job and minding your own business.

[This message edited by uncertainone at 2:03 AM, June 15th (Saturday)]


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
standinghere
Member
Member # 34689
Default  Posted: 3:00 AM, June 15th (Saturday)

I've worked with a lot of people who have slept around, married, single, cheating, etc.

My general approach is safety first, professionalism second, and ignore or silently listen to the gossip.

Would I travel with her?

Only in a group.

Would I stay in the same room or even allow her in mine, or go in hers, or eat a meal alone with her?

No.

I would never allow her to get me out by ourselves, but still treat her with respect, and just be on my guard and respect and enforce boundaries.

But, that is the normal day, regardless of who is around.

It is not her that you have to worry about, it is you. Nobody can make you cheat, and it is damn hard to ruin a reputation that is solid. People can try, but time tells.

The simple fact that this bothers you so much, means that you really need to be looking at yourself, you come across as having resentment toward her...and that makes you vulnerable to her.

I get hit on periodically by attractive younger women, they like me because I'm attractive, intelligent, and some if not all of them are probably looking for a KISA, the older women who do it are looking for a self esteem boost. It all happens in the course of my professional life. Reality is that it simply doesn't bother me, because I know that I'm not going to cheat (particularly after what was done to me).

But, when it starts to bother me more than a passing notice is when I need to take a long look at myself, am I feeling grounded and secure, or am I feeling insecure about myself, my appeal, my age, etc.

I know what it is like, to not feel secure, and it was then that it bothered me, because I was tempted, sex starved at home at the time, and the woman who came on to me was half my age, very attractive, ready and willing, and it made me angry.

Today, it wouldn't be an issue because my wife and I resolved our issues.


BH - Me - Late 30's (now late 40's)
WW - Her - Late 30's (now late 40's)
4 Children
Her - Love of my life...still is.
Reconciled - Partly...she can't get over it.
Her - Thunderstruck by what she did.

Posts: 894 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: USA
standinghere
Member
Member # 34689
Default  Posted: 3:07 AM, June 15th (Saturday)

I know hat was a long post.

But, in a nutshell humans are interesting creatures.

The "slut" we despise, is often the person we turn to for a random fuck when our lives or thinking are messed up...or who we start emulating in such a situation....that goes for men as well as women.


BH - Me - Late 30's (now late 40's)
WW - Her - Late 30's (now late 40's)
4 Children
Her - Love of my life...still is.
Reconciled - Partly...she can't get over it.
Her - Thunderstruck by what she did.

Posts: 894 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: USA
Hope24
Member
Member # 9344
Default  Posted: 5:29 AM, June 15th (Saturday)

Stick to the issue please. This is not a man vs woman thing.

Just reacting to what you posted, dude.


She packed up her potential and all she had learned and headed out to change a few things.

Posts: 7603 | Registered: Jan 2006 | From: Poolside
FinallyHappy
Member
Member # 308
Default  Posted: 7:23 AM, June 15th (Saturday)

The "slut" we despise, is often the person we turn to for a random fuck when our lives or thinking are messed up...

You, posting as a BH, have 'random fucks'?

Is this correct, or am I misunderstanding?

that goes for men as well as women.

Women are rarely searching for a 'fuck'.

Quite the opposite.

[This message edited by FinallyHappy at 7:25 AM, June 15th (Saturday)]


"Be civil to all; sociable to many; familiar with few; friend to one; enemy to none."

~Ben~

Posts: 7313 | Registered: Jul 2002 | From: WI
nofool4u
Member
Member # 38509
Default  Posted: 10:15 AM, June 17th (Monday)

Bullshit.

Nope, no bullshit at all.


I find your entire story odd. If any one in my company was getting around like that generating that type of drama they'd be gone.

You'd think. But sorry, that isn't what is happening where I work, whether they are a man or woman. The bottom line? Unless its a superior/subordinate relationship, I suppose you cannot fire someone for affairs outside the office. On business trips? You'd think. But so far nobody is doing anything about it. Man or woman.

You've stated 16 ways how you are not a WS and never cheated. Dude. Calm down.

I am calm. Maybe you need to calm down.


You are positively frothing about this "slut" whom EVERY one hates.

Not frothing at all. Just do not want to go on any business trip with her. Simple as that.


Um, what about the married men? They caught in her web. She chloroforms them?

I already posted about that. Read it.


I've had to take business trips with men whose behavior is less than stellar. Haven't had one issue. Never.

Good for you.

I go. I work. I go back to my hotel. I don't put myself in questionable positions. No talk, no gossip, no issues.

I suspect your work environment is much different.

To me, you've drawn more attention to yourself with your actions than just going, doing your job and minding your own business.

Nope. My boss agrees and it stayed between me and him. Nobody else had to know that I simply requested to go a different week.

Thanks for your input.

[This message edited by nofool4u at 10:36 AM, June 17th (Monday)]


Me - fBS

Posts: 210 | Registered: Feb 2013
nofool4u
Member
Member # 38509
Default  Posted: 10:21 AM, June 17th (Monday)

It is not her that you have to worry about, it is you. Nobody can make you cheat, and it is damn hard to ruin a reputation that is solid.

standingthere, I quite agree. However, you don't know this situation. Rumors fly and reputation or not, people have started things. I don't associate with this person, or the men she has been with.

But I guarantee, if I were to go on this trip with this particular repeat offender, I'd be one of those men that were with her, no matter how much I'd have avoided her the entire week. That and I simply don't want to be around her. Nothing wrong with that at all.

All I can do is request a different week since that was a possibility in this situation.

[This message edited by nofool4u at 10:48 AM, June 17th (Monday)]


Me - fBS

Posts: 210 | Registered: Feb 2013
Sal1995
Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 11:00 AM, June 17th (Monday)

I find your entire story odd.

I do, too. This woman sounds like trouble, but nothing in your story indicates that you are even on her radar, or that you have done anything in the past that would make someone believe that you're a likely candidate to sleep with this woman. The danger, if any, seems greatly exaggerated. Especially if you avoid this woman as much as possible during the trip.

nofool4u, I've read quite a few of your posts in recent months and get the impression that, despite the divorce, you still have a lot of pain and bitterness left over from your ex-wife's betrayal that's making if hard for you to move on. Believe me, I understand that. It changes you, leaves a big scar.

You paint a picture of a woman who is almost cartoonishly evil and so powerful that even the most innocent of men are in danger of getting caught in her web. Yet somehow management feels powerless to rid itself of her because of some vague fear that she might sue if terminated for her own bad behavior. Is that really the case?

Have you tried IC? My impression is that you are really struggling. I'm really struggling and trying to reconcile with a remorseful wife, and that's hard enough. A great MC/IC is the only thing that seems to keep me sane at times. If you haven't tried IC, I encourage you to give it a go and get some of this off your chest.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
nofool4u
Member
Member # 38509
Default  Posted: 11:13 AM, June 17th (Monday)

Sal, I'm not on the radar because of the steps I take to not associate with her.
Not saying that she couldn't resist me or anything like that. But I don't put out the vibe.

And part of it is that I simply do not want to be in her presence. And I'm not going to be the talk of the office when I get back from this trip either. Its happened before, although on a smaller and kidding-like scale after coming back from a trip.

You know the type, "Don't do anything I wouldn't do", etc. But with this person, there would be more than just kidding jibes and office talk.

Bitterness? Sure, maybe a little. But that doesn't mean I can't tell it like it is and have an outspoken opinion on similar situations. IC? Nah, don't need it. It aint that bad.

Again, this is a matter of I do not want to go on a business trip with this person and it was between me and my boss who agreed.


Me - fBS

Posts: 210 | Registered: Feb 2013
PurpleBirch
Member
Member # 39170
Default  Posted: 1:45 PM, June 17th (Monday)

Personally I think it's good that you stood your ground about this. I would probably feel uncomfortable too if I was in your situation. I completely understand where you're coming from. It's better to prevent a "situation" than to deal with one after the fact. What was that movie with Demi Moore where she cried rape when she was assaulting him (caught on voicemail too)? You don't want to be the man from that movie.


Me: BS (32)
Him: WH (31)
Married 3 years.
Confessed to PA April 21 2013.

DS (6), DS (18 months)

Aug 30 2013 He gives me back his ring with an ultimatum: "Get over it or get out".

Status: Done like dinner


Posts: 277 | Registered: May 2013 | From: The frozen North, eh?
nofool4u
Member
Member # 38509
Default  Posted: 4:00 PM, June 17th (Monday)

Thanks PB

Thing is, I wanted this to be quiet, which is why I wouldn't have talked about it with anyone but my boss, and he, for obvious reasons, would not talk about it with anyone else.

If my request to be able to go at another time was denied, and I was told I have to go, then I'd have hoped that when it came time to travel down with the 2 cars we took that I'd have been able to pick the one she wasn't in without having to explain why I'd rather be in the other one.

But as it stood there were a couple different weeks I could go and it worked out without anyone being any the wiser.


Me - fBS

Posts: 210 | Registered: Feb 2013
million pieces
Member
Member # 27539
Default  Posted: 8:49 PM, June 17th (Monday)

I'm kinda baffled at all of the doubting responses. He didn't refuse to go on a trip with her, he requested another week. He did his request in private. I absolutely think that in certain work environments, that would be a wise move.

And yes, infidelity changes us. I know I put up boundaries WAY more than I ever did 4 yrs ago. I was very naive back then and very trusting. I am not now. And it has changed my behavior. I am FB friends w any married men right now that I'm not friends with their wife. I don't chit chat w married men at soccer games. Maybe I am paranoid, but I don't want any lines crossed or anyone to think any lines are crossed.


Me - 42
2 kids, 9 and 11
D-Day 2/5/10, separated 3 wks later
Divorced 11/15/11!!!!

Posts: 1150 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: MD
Dark Inertia
Member
Member # 30727
Default  Posted: 9:10 PM, June 17th (Monday)

Some of these responses are downright bullying (especially Uncertainone's) and aggressive. The OP has taken it with a lot of grace. Look, if he is uncomfortable he is uncomfortable. He was uncomfortable enough to bring it up to his superior. I am not getting why this is making people so angry and are taking such offense.

If any one in my company was getting around like that generating that type of drama they'd be gone.

No one is talking about your company and their protocol.

I've had to take business trips with men whose behavior is less than stellar. Haven't had one issue. Never. I go. I work. I go back to my hotel. I don't put myself in questionable positions. No talk, no gossip, no issues.

Honestly, I really don't think anyone here cares what you have or haven't done on a business trip. This isn't really about you. Basically what you are saying with your entire post is that since you handle the situation this way (or your company), then EVERYBODY does or should handle it in the same way. Ya know, people do approach things in different manners.

[This message edited by Dark Inertia at 9:29 PM, June 17th (Monday)]


"If I listened earlier, I wouldn't be here. But that's just the trouble with me. I give myself very good advice, but I very seldom follow it."

Posts: 1102 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: The Ohio
GabyBaby
Member
Member # 26928
Default  Posted: 9:29 PM, June 17th (Monday)

He didn't refuse to go on a trip with her, he requested another week. He did his request in private. I absolutely think that in certain work environments, that would be a wise move.
And yes, infidelity changes us. I know I put up boundaries WAY more than I ever did 4 yrs ago. I was very naive back then and very trusting. I am not now. And it has changed my behavior. I am FB friends w any married men right now that I'm not friends with their wife. I don't chit chat w married men at soccer games. Maybe I am paranoid, but I don't want any lines crossed or anyone to think any lines are crossed.

I agree with this.
I've always had more male friends than female friends, but since dealing with XWH's antics, I'm a lot more aware of how I come across or how I may be PERCEIVED as coming across (especially with married men). I've always had good boundaries, but I take even more precautions to never be alone with them, etc.

I've had to travel for business on occasion and if I felt uncomfortable about traveling with a particular person, I would certainly have a conversation with my supervisor to see what alternatives could be arranged.

[This message edited by GabyBaby at 9:31 PM, June 17th (Monday)]


Me - 41
My Rockstar (Hubs #2) - 46, faithful, & an absolute doll!
DD(20) and DS(18, PDD-NOS)
6 Furkids (4 Dogs and 2 Cats)

The Cheater:
WXH (serial cheater, 12+ OW. Undiagnosed SA?)
Married 18yrs

Note: I edit often for typos/clarity.


Posts: 5531 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: United States
Ladyogilvy
Member
Member # 31558
Default  Posted: 11:39 PM, June 17th (Monday)

I am a self proclaimed sexist but even I think your choice was completely appropriate. Avoiding The appearance of impropriety, staying out of the zone of danger and respecting your feelings about the situation are all appropriate. We're always telling people to trust their gut. I think this applies here. We talk about boundaries. Sounds like you are making your boundaries clear.

As owners of a lawfirm, I can tell you, we spend a lot of energy trying to avoid lawsuits from people looking for a paid vacation. Despite being a minority owned business, lawsuits are usually discrimination and/or sexual harassment based, one person's word against another's. White guys are usually the targets of accusations. it doesn't, matter how innocent they may be, anyone can file a lawsuit and defending the business is expensive. So, either the business spends a lot of money on lawyers or pays a settlement to save money. We don't settle frivolous lawsuits. We'd rather pay the lawyers. We also would have no problem firing a guy for making women uncomfortable if it were brought to our attention.

I can imagine, if it were a woman making men uncomfortable, that could get complicated. If people like you come forward and make complaints, it would make it possible for the employer to start documenting the problem. You probably did your employer a favor.


Me: BW a youthful 49
Him: alcoholic, sober now, WH 56
Married 19 years
Two sons, 16 & 17 years old
DD? He's still keeping secrets and only admits to what I have indisputable
evidence of... the $2000 earrings he bought her for x-mas.

Posts: 1512 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: California
RidingHealingRd
Member
Member # 33867
Default  Posted: 12:35 AM, June 18th (Tuesday)

I would not want to attend the conference with a known cheater either...they disgust me as well.

Better that I don't go because it would be extremely difficult for me to suppress my urge to walk up to her and hand her a stick on name tag that reads:

HELLO
My Name is...
The Office Mattress

Maybe businesses would take action against office cheaters if more people were like you and made it clear they objected to this type of behavior in the workplace.

I see nothing wrong with what you did.


ME: 53 BS
HIM: 60 WH
Married: 28 years
D'Day: 10/29/10
in R 3.5 years and it's working but he is putting 200% into it (as he should) to make it right again.

The truth hurts, but I have never seen it cause the pain that lies do.


Posts: 1982 | Registered: Nov 2011
nofool4u
Member
Member # 38509
Default  Posted: 8:57 AM, June 18th (Tuesday)

Some of these responses are downright bullying (especially Uncertainone's) and aggressive. The OP has taken it with a lot of grace.

Best to be civil when faced with incivility. But like you said, why people are getting angry about it is beyond me. Anyone that is angry about it is revealing alot.

[This message edited by nofool4u at 8:59 AM, June 18th (Tuesday)]


Me - fBS

Posts: 210 | Registered: Feb 2013
Hope24
Member
Member # 9344
Default  Posted: 11:21 AM, June 18th (Tuesday)

I didn't hear anger or bullying in any of the responses. I heard strong opinions (including that of the original poster). Pretty common here on this site which is part of what makes it such a unique and wonderful place.

As for "bullying" the mods do a great job of policing that for us. We are very fortunate here.


She packed up her potential and all she had learned and headed out to change a few things.

Posts: 7603 | Registered: Jan 2006 | From: Poolside
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 11:53 AM, June 18th (Tuesday)

Anyone that is angry about it is revealing alot.

Oh, I agree completely. Didn't see anyone angry but very much agree with the "revealing a lot" part. The OP was quite revealing.

Let's see. No real dilemma as when questioned you stated your boss was fine with your request so no issue there. You weren't forced to go nor chastised for not wanting to.

Pretty much every insult that could be printed about the woman was used however when anyone questioned about the men that joined in her reindeer games the poster was told to stay on topic, as they were not the focus.

Oh, and waywards were welcome to come in and, what exactly? Either agree with the labels or shamefully own them?

Yep. Quite revealing indeed. I hope you work through some of that anger. I'm sure your SO doesn't deserve the remnents of your horrible experiences with your ex.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
nofool4u
Member
Member # 38509
Default  Posted: 11:58 AM, June 18th (Tuesday)

I didn't hear anger or bullying in any of the responses.

I don't consider myself being bullied to be honest. One has to have the power to bully.

As far as civility, when one starts a response with "Bullshit", they aren't bringing understanding and civility to the table.


Me - fBS

Posts: 210 | Registered: Feb 2013
nofool4u
Member
Member # 38509
Default  Posted: 12:02 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

Oh, and waywards were welcome to come in and, what exactly? Either agree with the labels or shamefully own them?

When did I ask to agree with any lables? Are you the woman in question in this thread? No

Are you the woman who is cheating on her spouse in this thread? No.

Are the men that are acting like pigs who are sleeping with this woman the men you cheated with? No.

This thread is not about all WS's or cheaters, but rather one person who has no qualms about cheating on her husband and the men that cheat on their wives to be with her.

This site is suppose to have only those WS's who are remorseful about what they have done. Or so I have been told that the resident WS do not condone or accept that kind of behavior from other WS's here.
I am talking about one WS that is not remorseful.
This is where the revealing part comes in. If you are upset that I don't want to be with a flagrant unremorseful cheating person, then it says alot.

WS's are welcome to chime in. But if you can't be civil and tone down your anger then I respectfully request you do not respond.

Thank you

[This message edited by nofool4u at 12:08 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)]


Me - fBS

Posts: 210 | Registered: Feb 2013
Dark Inertia
Member
Member # 30727
Default  Posted: 12:14 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

Uncertainone, reading your posts you sound very angry and hostile. It is almost like you are taking personal offense.


"If I listened earlier, I wouldn't be here. But that's just the trouble with me. I give myself very good advice, but I very seldom follow it."

Posts: 1102 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: The Ohio
Dark Inertia
Member
Member # 30727
Default  Posted: 12:14 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

Uncertainone, reading your posts you sound very angry and hostile. It is almost like you are taking personal offense.


"If I listened earlier, I wouldn't be here. But that's just the trouble with me. I give myself very good advice, but I very seldom follow it."

Posts: 1102 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: The Ohio
Dark Inertia
Member
Member # 30727
Default  Posted: 12:14 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

Uncertainone, reading your posts you sound very angry and hostile. It is almost like you are taking personal offense.


"If I listened earlier, I wouldn't be here. But that's just the trouble with me. I give myself very good advice, but I very seldom follow it."

Posts: 1102 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: The Ohio
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 12:17 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

DI, you must really believe that. But repeating three times doesn't get me to disappear. (I love that movie).


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
Dark Inertia
Member
Member # 30727
Default  Posted: 12:18 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

I thought it goes without saying that I accidentally triple posted. And yes, I very much so believe it.


"If I listened earlier, I wouldn't be here. But that's just the trouble with me. I give myself very good advice, but I very seldom follow it."

Posts: 1102 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: The Ohio
Deeply Scared
Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 12:22 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

Everyone, Please get back on topic.


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 192070 | Registered: May 2002
20WrongsVs1
Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 12:38 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

Acting to preserve your reputation is perfectly reasonable. I too am surprised by the strong reactions to your post, but won't comment further.

If my H were in that situation, I would applaud his decision to quietly handle it with his boss. I'm not worried that H would "fall prey" to her charms; I'm the (recovering) lying WS, not him. But I know: cheaters lie, and if she got attention by spreading gossip about you, she'd do it, without concern for your reputation. Active, practicing WSs don't give a rip about anyone but ourselves; consequences be damned.


^^Everything I write, IMHO & YMMV.^^
fWW: 42, amazing H and two elementary-age kids.
Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing & rightdoing there is a field. I'll meet you there. When the soul lies down in that grass, the world is too full to talk about.

Posts: 778 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
nofool4u
Member
Member # 38509
Default  Posted: 1:04 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

I too believe this.

Honestly, worrying about my rep is a secondary consideration, but a consideration nonetheless.

I simply did not want to go on a trip with her, whether it be traveling with her or having to go to the same meetings with her. I wouldn't want to go with any of the jackasses that she has been with either. But I don't have to worry about that. The guys that are known to F around there behind their wives' backs are in a different focus at the company and do not go on any business trips, at least not the same as me.

20Wrongsvs1, I'd hope your H would do something similar. Its bad enough, and correct me if Im wrong, when a WS goes on a business trip, its even worse when going with a known runaround who has no qualms about being with someone else who is married.

[This message edited by nofool4u at 1:09 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)]


Me - fBS

Posts: 210 | Registered: Feb 2013
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 1:33 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

Nofool I think you did a very smart thing, and I too would have probably done the same or similar. Someone who behaves with such abandon for what is "right" warrants being leary of.

She has lots of her own issues, and you certainly don't need to open yourself up for any drama, or insuations of inpropriety, or harrassment allegations.
HR always has to make sure their t's are crossed and i's are dotted before acting on someone like this.
I have worked in the medical field for over 20 years, and have seen similar issues go on, and it takes time to get rid of them. Her day will come.

Good for you for sticking to what you feel and know is right and wrong.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 14 & 16
Married for 21 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 6614 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
nofool4u
Member
Member # 38509
Default  Posted: 4:04 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

I didn't hear anger or bullying in any of the responses. I heard strong opinions (including that of the original poster). Pretty common here on this site which is part of what makes it such a unique and wonderful place.
As for "bullying" the mods do a great job of policing that for us. We are very fortunate here.

Hope24, in light of new information from you, I'll let that speak for itself with regards to the above.

[This message edited by nofool4u at 4:04 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)]


Me - fBS

Posts: 210 | Registered: Feb 2013
whensitover
Member
Member # 31207
Default  Posted: 9:18 AM, June 20th (Thursday)

I think you absolutely did the right thing!!!
But one other thing is it sounds to me like the Top Brass in your company needs to have a HUGE meeting and let EVERYBODY know that, the word is, these meetings can get out of hand and risque and they need to know that ANYBODY married or not (imho)will be either written up or fired. I have been an employer for a major, world wide bank and mortgage company and before every trip, our staff and leaders would tell us, over and over, you do anything or anybody other than your purpose of being on the trip, and its over for you. We never had a problem!But I do think what you did was very admirable.

Posts: 422 | Registered: Feb 2011
nofool4u
Member
Member # 38509
Default  Posted: 10:16 AM, June 20th (Thursday)

whenitsover, boy you'd think that is what the top brass would do.
But unless they have proof that it is happening on company time, on a company business trip, or is a boss/employee relationship, I think their take is there is nothing they can do for what happens outside the office.
And I'd have to agree with that.
As bad as it might be for morale or office relationships, what happens after hours shouldn't be under the regulation of the company, unless whatever happens after hours isn't of personal nature and affects the company directly.


Me - fBS

Posts: 210 | Registered: Feb 2013
Random thoughts
Member
Member # 2959
Default  Posted: 10:27 AM, June 20th (Thursday)

I can see why your company in so cautious because people are so sue happy and will take a company to court even if they don't have grounds to sue.

Here in NJ a father is suing his son's coach and school because he was let go from a sport team at school.

The company would still have to defend itself from a lawsuit frivolous or not.

You did the right thing. I guess everyone forgets the saying "if you lay down with dogs, you'll get fleas "

You hang out with known cheaters at work, even if you don't cheat yourself, you are telling others that you are ok with being dishonest, lying and no boundaries


Those three words are said too much and not enough.
Chasing Cars-Snow Patrol.
FWW

Posts: 1536 | Registered: Dec 2003 | From: Some where in New Jersey
nofool4u
Member
Member # 38509
Default  Posted: 4:15 PM, June 20th (Thursday)

Well one guy got fired here a long time ago for having an affair with a coworker and also set up business trips for them both.
But he was her boss and, I'm guessing, it was probably viewed as abuse by a superior.
She wasn't fired, but I suspect she'd have had a case against the company if they tried to fire her, even if it was consensual.


Me - fBS

Posts: 210 | Registered: Feb 2013
aesir
Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 4:25 PM, June 20th (Thursday)

You hang out with known cheaters at work, even if you don't cheat yourself, you are telling others that you are ok with being dishonest, lying and no boundaries
Or that you have bills you need to pay. I don't know of any workplaces where everyone is morally pure, at one time I might have suggested a monastery, but I was young and naive and had not heard the stories yet.

Personally I have seen too many long gone people show up after mentioning them three times no to believe in the Beetlejuice effect, but I have never seen them go away from it.

Yeah, it is one thing if one is a superior, or abuses company resources to conduct an affair (such as setting up trips together), another thing if they confine inappropriate behavior to their own time. Not sure I would want to work for a company that felt it could enforce it's morality on me during my time.

Bottom line is exposure does not equate to participation, and a person of integrity can be asked to hang onto a stack of twenties in a strip bar on half price night.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
nofool4u
Member
Member # 38509
Default  Posted: 3:32 PM, July 3rd (Wednesday)

Well whaddya know, looks like the woman in question is in another affair, however with a married man of one of our clients this time.
I don't know why her husband puts up with it.

[This message edited by nofool4u at 3:34 PM, July 3rd (Wednesday)]


Me - fBS

Posts: 210 | Registered: Feb 2013
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 3:54 PM, July 3rd (Wednesday)

Does her husband know? Are you sure?

So she is screwing one of your client's husbands?


BS(me)41
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,9
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: R? I don't know..ask me tomorrow..it changes rapidly.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 6655 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
nofool4u
Member
Member # 38509
Default  Posted: 4:41 PM, July 3rd (Wednesday)

Not sure if her husband knows or not. I often thought about typing an anon letter to him, and some of the wives of the men she has been with, but that would take me a while. No time, and really have better things to do.

She is screwing a married client now. Worded it wrong before.

[This message edited by nofool4u at 4:41 PM, July 3rd (Wednesday)]


Me - fBS

Posts: 210 | Registered: Feb 2013
hurtinghearts
Member
Member # 27232
Default  Posted: 3:21 AM, July 31st (Wednesday)

NoFool, I'm not sure where some of these replies are coming from, but the bottom line is that you did what you needed to do for your comfort level and your career.

In fact, I think you probably also helped her career just a tad because now people won't be wondering about the two of you.

Good call for standing up for what helps keep your hands clean, even if it's just people wondering if your hands are clean.

:)


Dday: Jan. 8th, 2010
OW#1 6 month PA...she is remorseful and forgiven. OW#2 The "therapist"... played head games with me. OW#3... loved to give blow jobs in her office. OW#4 the couple from Hell

Posts: 66 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Illinois
SI Staff
Moderator
Member # 10
Red  Posted: 8:16 AM, July 31st (Wednesday)

Please note this thread is a month old.

Posts: 10000 | Registered: May 2002
Mousse242
Member
Member # 6330
Default  Posted: 6:50 PM, July 31st (Wednesday)

I hope the conference went well.

Your company sounds like it needs to establish a no fraternization policy. Many companies just have it with a supervisor and underling policy. If they adapted that, it would be the end of her.

I agree with your stance on not wanting to go to this conference with her.

As to her messing with a client, now she's in dangerous territory. When it goes bad, it's going to hurt the bottom line.

Most states (all of them may be actually) are at-will employers. Which means, technically they can fire you whenever they want as long as they have just cause. If one of the wives or someone took her to HR for sexual harassment, she could be fired. Her HR file should have documentation on her behavior and the company law department should be working on something to get rid of her. Honestly, if they really wanted her gone, they would find a way. Announce a slight restructure and eliminate her position, look at every detail of her expense statements, look for abuse of electronic communications, use of a work cell phone to make (excessive) personal calls, etc.


Posts: 5464 | Registered: Jan 2005 | From: Chicago
hurtinghearts
Member
Member # 27232
Default  Posted: 9:17 AM, August 1st (Thursday)

Nofool, any updates?

I didn't realize the thread was a month old, but that makes me even more interested to know what's gone on since you last posted. :)


Dday: Jan. 8th, 2010
OW#1 6 month PA...she is remorseful and forgiven. OW#2 The "therapist"... played head games with me. OW#3... loved to give blow jobs in her office. OW#4 the couple from Hell

Posts: 66 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Illinois
Topic Posts: 62