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User Topic: just random thoughts, BS welcome
stilllovinghim
Member
Member # 29971
Default  Posted: 11:46 PM, June 11th (Tuesday)

So, I was reading another thread in JFO and I can't respond to THAT particular thread so I'm posting here...please bear with me...

So I see that a common question among BS's is, "Why did my WS think down on themselves? He/She was bright, attractive, fun to be around, etc and I told him/her this all the time. Why the need for external validation? Why did he/she think we, the BS, should be taken down a notch?"

I'm going to try and answer this the best I can before I loose my train of thought.

I was told prior to my A by my H and my dad and my grandmother, people who genuinely loved me for me, that I was smart, pretty, funny, etc. This was validation from people who should matter, right? So it doesn't make sense to seek it from a stranger, right? Wrong.

I was convinced that my H and dad and grandmother who told me these things told me because they didn't really know me. That they didn't see me fuck up at work. They didn't see how stupid I really was. That of course they think I'm pretty because it's a reflection of them in some way and because they weren't around me 24/7 they only saw the good in me.

I didn't know exactly WHAT was wrong on my inside, just that there was something wrong inside of me and sooner or later I would be exposed as a fraud. I felt like I was fooling everyone. Not in a "oh ha ha! I've got you allll fooled mmuuahahaahaa!!" way but...I really don't know how to describe it because even I don't understand it and when I try to my mind just draws a blank.
When a BS says they don't understand why their WS can't take a compliment, its because we truly don't believe it and we can't believe it. My dad would compliment me and I'd smile but on the inside would tell myself it wasn't true. It just wasn't.

So I think that seeking external validation from a stranger or coworker etc is when it "matters" to the WS BECAUSE of the simple fact that this person doesn't know you as well as your SO or family so if this "stranger" thinks your great, then shit, you must be, right?

This brings me to my last point. The WS feeling their BS should be knocked down a few pegs or that the BS has had just a cherry of a life (when in reality the BS has had their own personal struggles). The WS is jealous of the BS. Plain and simple. The WS is so wrapped up in their own issues and pain that when they see their BS all happy they could just spit nails because the WS isn't happy. The WS is responsible for their own happiness but they either don't know how to do that or don't care.

I hope this post makes sense and I know its all over the place and I'm sure I'm leaving some stuff out so WS's please feel free to chime in as well as BS's


“You have a choice. Live or die.Every breath is a choice. Every minute is a choice. Every time you don't throw yourself down the stairs, that's a choice. Every time you don't crash your car, you re-enlist.”
― Chuck Palahniuk, Survivor

Posts: 1942 | Registered: Oct 2010
Later
Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 12:16 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

Thanks for posting, and doing the work.

Some of he problems I struggle with when considering the "he said I was smart" rationale:

1. Is it BS? (not aimed at you SLH -- just in general I think all BS have that question with their spouse, at least initially).

It's kinda like if the Dr. ordered no fried foods and the patient chose to eat them anyway because the wait staff is so nice. B.S., you just wanted fried green tomatoes.

2. So, you don't believe me, but you believe this guy? The guy who is cheating on his family, has a history of that and should be an obvious con?

3. Okay, suppose the need for validation really was a reason for the A. How does that make me feel more comfortable going forward? I am not exactly in the mood for haanding out compliments.

Again, nothing personal -- just taking the opportunity to say how I feel. Thanks again for opening the discussion.

As for the point you were making (as oppossed to my rant) I can see what you are saying.

[This message edited by Later at 12:21 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 385 | Registered: May 2013
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 12:57 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

Later,

I see the need for validation as being the thing that allows the WS to step over those boundaries so easily. From there, they often just keep going.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5094 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
stilllovinghim
Member
Member # 29971
Default  Posted: 1:10 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

Later,
No offense taken and I didn't read your response as a rant, glad you understood what I was struggling to say.

To answer your questions in sequencial order:

1: Bottom line, we (the WS) or more specifically, I, did it because I could. That sounds like a bratty thing to say, but weren't the actions and reasons juvenile? The patient ate the fried food because he could and because he wanted to.

2:Right because this is someone *different* telling you this stuff so it matters because it's the same stuff being said by someone else...

3:Don't compliment if you don't feel you should. Your SO needs to learn to love herself, which is hard. Your SO needs to learn how to make herself happy. That helps the WS to actually be able to fully accept a compliment from their BS later on and know it's true BECAUSE it is because THEY feel the same way about themselves. "You're right, I do look good today, thanks for noticing!" Etc.

Hoped some of that helped.


“You have a choice. Live or die.Every breath is a choice. Every minute is a choice. Every time you don't throw yourself down the stairs, that's a choice. Every time you don't crash your car, you re-enlist.”
― Chuck Palahniuk, Survivor

Posts: 1942 | Registered: Oct 2010
badchoice
Member
Member # 35566
Default  Posted: 1:33 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

For me the need for validation was a very small part of my fuckupedness. It was, as TG said a reason to cross boundaries.

In regards to #2, as I get honest with myself, I didn't believe anyone's compliments.

Looking back I got lots of validation, work, volunteer work, my wife, etc, but it just wasn't enough to fill the void within. So no, I didn't believe my AP above my BW. I just didn't believe anyone.

And #3, I don't think the need for external validation is the reason for the A, at least in my opinion. Everyone likes validation, but not everyone has an A. It is a sign of deeper self esteem issues, and that is what leads to the slippery slope.


Me: fWH/BH 46

Separated transitioning to D


Posts: 730 | Registered: May 2012 | From: L.A.
Pudding
Member
Member # 37168
Default  Posted: 2:03 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

BS here.

Thank you for this SLH. This does make sense and is really helpful for me. My FWH has said similar things which I have not really understood. The way you have expressed it has helped me to understand it better. Thank you.


Posts: 266 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: UK
Later
Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 2:45 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

I see the need for validation as being the thing that allows the WS to step over those boundaries so easily. From there, they often just keep going.

Don't compliment if you don't feel you should. Your SO needs to learn to love herself, which is hard. Your SO needs to learn how to make herself happy. That helps the WS to actually be able to fully accept a compliment from their BS later on and know it's true BECAUSE it is because THEY feel the same way about themselves. "You're right, I do look good today, thanks for noticing!" Etc.

Thanks. I think this highlights the need for the WS to do some work on his/her self. Otherwise, the original underlying issues remain -- with newly added guilt and shame. Not to mention the BS's resentment, anger, moodiness, triggers, etc make it very difficult for the BS to be the source of that apparent extraordinary need for validation.


Posts: 385 | Registered: May 2013
still-living
Member
Member # 30434
Default  Posted: 6:24 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

With my wife, I would categorize what you are saying as "justifying". My wife needed to justify her affair so she wouldn't be the bad person. It had to be others that were "causing" the grief she was experiencing. Ultimately my wife convinced herself that her problems were caused by me. This was after moving three times to where she wanted to live, purchasing three new gingerbread houses, kids, pool, cars, etc. There was nobody left to blame. When the target became me, I could not defeat her negative thoughts. Ultimately she looked elsewhere for happiness and, of course, still didn't find it. Her problems started far before she began to justify an affair affair. Her needs could not be satisfied by anybody for long.

[This message edited by still-living at 6:28 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)]


BH(me)47
WW 47 FOO Issues
DDay 11/09 Coworker
High School Sweethearts
Married 06/91
8 months TT
Sons 19 and 14
Recovery is constructing a pyramid of inference from which to see clearer.
The process involves using the reflexive loop.

Posts: 787 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Ches
itainteasy
Member
Member # 31094
Default  Posted: 7:25 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

You made sense to me, SLH.

Sometimes when my fiance tells me he thinks I'm beautiful, or even if my mom or dad says it I think in my head "I'm disgusting, you are only saying that because you love me and you have to, not because it's true."

I have a very negative self image.

So, if someone else, a stranger or an aquaintance compliments my appearance, sense of humor, etc...I do get that "wow, this person doesn't even know me so it must be true" feeling/reaction.


I don't think I have EVER realized this about myself.

This is something I am going to bring up in IC next week.


Posts: 3423 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: NWPA
20WrongsVs1
Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 7:43 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

External validation was, I told myself, what I wanted from an A. Because yeah, compliments from men who want into my panties--those are genuine!

Ultimately my wife convinced herself that her problems were caused by me.

Don't we all? As discussed in the BM thread, we all accused you of being distant. If BH was distant, it was probably because I was always "busy" or distracted. I created the distance, and then held it against him.

Her problems started far before she began to justify an affair

How do we all get the same delusional idea that an A is a great way to solve those problems?

I would categorize what you are saying as "justifying"

I can't speak for SLH, but how does one explain how one felt during/before an A, without appearing to justify? I'm <2 months out, and my apologies land on BH like justifications and excuses. Not my intent, but I accept & trust his perspective more than mine at this point. All I can do is admit that I'm a mess, and get help.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1249 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
Trying33
Member
Member # 38815
Default  Posted: 7:46 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

So I think that seeking external validation from a stranger or coworker etc is when it "matters" to the WS BECAUSE of the simple fact that this person doesn't know you as well as your SO or family so if this "stranger" thinks your great, then shit, you must be, right?

Coupled with the fact that this person makes such a huge effort to spend time with you. Prioritises time to be with you. Wants to know every little details about you.

It's intoxicating and feeds into the lack of self-esteem and neediness.

Broken people attract broken people.

My BH was hurting as much as me in the M. Was frustrated as much as me. Was probably as lonely as me but he didn't have an A.

Two people can be in the same shitty marriage but only 1 may take the A avenue. It's not the BS or the marriage that "causes" or leads to the A. It's the way the WS chooses to/decides to handle that shitty marriage via infidelity.


Posts: 362 | Registered: Mar 2013
floridaredman
Member
Member # 15122
Default  Posted: 8:26 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

I agree with what SLHim says about this and it just shows what crazy thinking that waywards can have.
Who should know you more than the people who live with us right?
Our BS, parents and other family know about us more than we realize. They know our bad habits, they know what we like to eat and maybe even the rituals we do before we do a certain thing.
However our thinking is that they are SUPPOSE to say good things about us. They can overlook our faults because they are so close to us.
Now the AP really knows nothing about us except what we tell them. They are not with us 24/7. They don't smell the tartness of our fartness. They don't toil with us about bills or child rearing or in-laws..yet our thinking is they understand us more because they "validate" the negative and positive things brought to them by us.
In the grand scheme of things they are our king/queen of validation because we allow them to be, it is how we perceive them to be. An escape, ego boost, revenge, KISA or Florence Nightengale..the AP ultimately becomes what we make them and they really don't know us as well as our family does.

[This message edited by floridaredman at 8:27 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)]


The simplest thing can be the hardest thing to do....FRM

Posts: 2537 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Florida
JustWow
Member
Member # 19636
Default  Posted: 8:45 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

My FWH was one of the most emotionally intimacy-avoidant people I've known. The mask he projected was an importsnt defense mechanism to him, he believed.

But, since he never was willing to really expose who he really was, he was always going to believe "if they really knew me, they wouldn't think I was so great".

I think he also had so much shame and importance attached to his flaws, internally, that he was sure his flaws trumped any positive things people genuinely saw.

Sad cycle of seeking external validation, but it didn't really validate anything other than his mask was fooling people properly.

Turns out his "flaws" are no where as enormous as he fathomed them to be, he is no more or no less huan than anyone else, and he can change most anything he wants to about himself if he summons up the will to do it and follows through with the work consistently. I say "most anything", because he probably can't manage the pro=baseball player change at this age


BW - Reconciling

edited for typos (I always have to!)


Posts: 3637 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Midwest
KBeguile
Member
Member # 38348
Default  Posted: 8:54 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

Holy cow. This is making so much sense to me. Please, by all means, continue. I'm absorbing all of this like a towel ...


Me: fWS 32
Her: BS 35 (HeartInADustpan)
DS: 4yo
M: 7 years
DDays: 2012/11/14, 2013/02/05, 2013/03/09
-
"Everything that happens now is happening 'now.'"
"What happened to 'then'?"
"We passed 'then.'"

Posts: 801 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: St. Louis
SandAway
Member
Member # 37775
Default  Posted: 8:57 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)


its because we truly don't believe it and we can't believe it.

I understand your thought process here SLH. I felt this way also - my BH would compliment me, but I told myself it is what he is suppose to do. Yet I would believe complete strangers when they told me I was pretty - it's such a f'ed up thought process.

During my A, this screwed up way of thinking never crossed my mind. As FRM said "the AP ultimately becomes what we make them".


fWW
BH Tred
M 16yrs
DDay Nov. 2011

Guns don't kill people; Affairs kill people


Posts: 439 | Registered: Dec 2012
Faithful w/Love
Member
Member # 33128
Default  Posted: 9:05 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

I see how this is so true. I always and still do praise my wh and tell him how proud of him I am, he is a great father, and how wonderful he is to our grandson. That he is handsome or looks good. And it sorta is like " Yeah, I know" but if someone else were to say that to him no matter a male or female in family or a stranger it boost is ego but coming from me it is not so important.

But, on the other hand he will look in the mirror and say "How does this look? Its good right? Or my haircut is off the chain isn't it? Yeah, I look good"? What is that? If he is so convinent in himself why would he need others valadation?

Am I missing something here?


BS(ME)40 WH(HIM)38
DD 20 and DS 15
Separated Aug 2012
Moved back home Oct 31 2013
Separated again June 2014. Heading toward divorce.
False R. Still Lying.

"You never know how strong you are until being strong is all you have left"


Posts: 2804 | Registered: Aug 2011
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 9:21 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

Thanks for sharing your random thoughts, slhim. It really sheds some light on something my FWH did to me, and I am thinking it was whilst he was in the midst of his affair.

He would look at me with what seemed to me to be despise and say "You really think you are something, don't you?"

Yeah, I kind of like myself. No, I don't feel I am perfect by a long shot. But, I have worked on myself, I know who I am, I stand up for what I believe in and I kind of like myself. I do the best I can and I am proud of that.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9844 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
floridaredman
Member
Member # 15122
Default  Posted: 9:25 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

But, on the other hand he will look in the mirror and say "How does this look? Its good right? Or my haircut is off the chain isn't it? Yeah, I look good"? What is that? If he is so convinent in himself why would he need others valadation?

Am I missing something here?

I see him saying this as still a need for validation. Because for him to say "Yeah I look good" He has to be questioning himself within whether he does or not. He is fishing for compliments. When he asks or makes a statement he is looking for affirmation from you or whomever .

Been there done that.


The simplest thing can be the hardest thing to do....FRM

Posts: 2537 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Florida
Kelany
Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 9:27 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

I've often wondered why my support and compliments weren't enough. Why he could never believe me.

It hurt me so so deeply when in his fog he told me that his AP's were jealous of me because he was "big". I asked why, they were having sex with you more than I was. He told me it made him feel good. It crushed me. Still does. Their compliments meant more.

I still don't know if what I tell him validates him. I know when he compliments me it doesn't feel the same anymore. Do WS mean it after an A when they compliment their BS? I mean, really mean it? Are we ever compared to the AP in your mind?


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
hardlessons
Member
Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 10:02 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

SB, for me no, no comparison. My A had nothing to do with AP or BW, it had everything to do with me. Validation whether it is from our BS or from AP goes to the same place for anyone with that issue: a black hole that cannot be filled. If we need that validation we will keep going where we know we will get it. In marriage you have a ton of other shit to deal with, life etc. in an A you are just feeding dysfunction. So, while it may seem like it meant more, it didn't. All it means is that we are FU*&#d up people who need to learn to be comfortable in our own skin, validate ourselves, self sooth and perceive things honestly and then act honestly. Hope that helps.


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 880 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
Kelany
Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 10:14 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

Rationally, I know it has nothing to do with me or his AP's and everything to do with his brokenness. "Rationally"

My irrational side...is just so wounded now. I really just hope he sees me the way I've always seen him.

I so appreciate the openness you WS's are willing to give.


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
JanaGreen
Member
Member # 29341
Default  Posted: 10:14 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

See, this is why I like lurking on the Wayward forum. SLH, I didn't cheat but I identify with a lot of the thought processes you outline. I have always felt that I'm kind of weird and different (not in a good way) from everyone, like there is something wrong with me and I'm a fraud. I have long looked for validation from others (especially my H - in a way I would blame him if I didn't feel good about myself, which was my issue and not his) and also based my happiness on the state of my marriage. I think unhealthy thought processes are not confined to the WS population; it's just that the WS happened to deal with things by cheating which is why we're all here. But everyone, BS and WS, benefits from this kind of introspection. Good to "see" you here, hope you are well!


We're both in our 30s. One awesome 4-year-old daughter.

Posts: 6833 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Somewhere in the South
KBeguile
Member
Member # 38348
Default  Posted: 10:40 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

SamanthaBaker said:
Do WS mean it after an A when they compliment their BS? I mean, really mean it? Are we ever compared to the AP in your mind?

I know in my particular circumstance that the APs never enter into it. As HL said, they were part of a dysfunctional cycle of brokenness that had nothing to do with anyone but me and my need for affirmation and external validation.

When I compliment Heart, I really do think she is beautiful, a good mother, a GREAT flutist, and lots more. I don't offer her compliments that I don't honestly feel (as part of rebuilding trust, honesty, and communication), but they ARE all in direct contradiction to things I said to the APs about her, predominantly because I was a master of projecting my own shortfalls onto her and bleaching myself blameless. This is one of the sticking places I've experienced, if only because there's a truth to what I say now AND a "truthiness" to what I said then.

My job is to demonstrate why those "things I said then" are completely false and part of the warped reality I had elaborately constructed for my own fragile ego. Not an easy task, but I will do it every day if I have to.


Me: fWS 32
Her: BS 35 (HeartInADustpan)
DS: 4yo
M: 7 years
DDays: 2012/11/14, 2013/02/05, 2013/03/09
-
"Everything that happens now is happening 'now.'"
"What happened to 'then'?"
"We passed 'then.'"

Posts: 801 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: St. Louis
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 10:46 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

So I think that seeking external validation from a stranger or coworker etc is when it "matters" to the WS BECAUSE of the simple fact that this person doesn't know you as well as your SO or family so if this "stranger" thinks your great, then shit, you must be, right?

Actually, SLH, that doesn't really make sense to me. What I've noticed more with a few people is that they're collectors. Once something or someone (sadly to some no difference) is "collected" they lose their appeal. They're won. They're certain. Must have fresh supply.

You have a mirror. I know sometimes FOO issues are real warpers for some but eyes work most times. You know how you look. It's how you think that may have concerned you and that would be valid. Like that awesome movie quote...sometimes low self esteem is just good common sense.

I have never quite understood how a complete stranger's compliments matter more than someone close. I guess because I knew those close don't have to. God, if I'd have heard a compliment from my mother I'd literally have died from shock. Seriously. Neither mattered to me. I could see the angles, most of the time.

So, if a strangers compliment seemed more real what about your feelings? The love you had for your husband? Did that seem real to you? Did you feel you were "supposed to" say that to him? All the compliments you gave him, did you just pop those off or did you really feel them?

You saw him, right? In all his glory just like he saw you. Did that deminish your love for him or did it actually endear him even more to you? That knowledge because you had back stage passes to the real show?

Why wouldn't he feel that way about you?

Believe me, my thought processes could be real shit shows. I just never quite understood this when I read it here.

How have you changed this? I know you've worked very hard and you guys seem good. What was the realization for you?

[This message edited by uncertainone at 10:48 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)]


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
Kelany
Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 10:59 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

KB that helps. My inner voice when he compliments me will say "but I wasn't beautiful enough then" or "you didn't love me then" and I struggle so much with that inner voice. I don't want to throw the compliments back and I try to accept them at face value. Its just the whole, "why wasn't I enough for you" then.

Sometimes I also just feel like I wasn't his first choice. If I hadn't caught him, he would still be having affairs. He said I was always his first choice. I hate that I even had to be a choice.


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 11:09 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

So if the need for external validation drives many of the waywards into affairs, then how do they cope with the aftermath in an attempt to reconcile?

After my wife's affair was discovered, I know that I wasn't exactly heaping praise on my wife. If there is a reliance on this validation, how does a wayward (who is attempting R) deal with the criticism, anger, blame, name-calling, that often follows the D-Day?


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1296 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
SandAway
Member
Member # 37775
Default  Posted: 11:15 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

wonderboy,

how does a wayward (who is attempting R) deal with the criticism, anger, blame, name-calling, that often follows the D-Day?

for me, I just did. I know that so much was said out of anger (deserving so). I also heard it all and the anger still pokes through at times. But I caused it. When we really take a look at ourselves we can see it too.

Time not only heals the BS but the WS also.


fWW
BH Tred
M 16yrs
DDay Nov. 2011

Guns don't kill people; Affairs kill people


Posts: 439 | Registered: Dec 2012
Unagie
Member
Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 11:53 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)

The WS is jealous of the BS. Plain and simple. The WS is so wrapped up in their own issues and pain that when they see their BS all happy they could just spit nails because the WS isn't happy. The WS is responsible for their own happiness but they either don't know how to do that or don't care.

I've sat on this for a little while but I don't get this statement. I was in no way shape or form jealous of my SO. I was depressed and angry but at life not at him. I am honest when I say that nothing about my A had anything to do with him and rather with myself and my issues. It sounds so much like a justification that it's bothering me. Perhaps it wasn't meant that way but I've read it a few times and just wonder how jealousy of someone's happiness even comes into the equation.

I also don't understand how the compliment of a stranger means more then words coming from the ones that love you the most. The stranger says your beautiful but they don't know a damn thing about you but it means more then you SO saying your beautiful despite the fact that your SO knows all your faults and accomplishments. I don't get it. Perhaps it's because the compliments of strangers never meant more to me then when my SO would tell me something. I wasn't getting compliments at home anymore, despite efforts in behavior and appearance, something that SO has said he did stop. When he did say something I was on cloud nine but it didn't matter, either way it was still seeking something externally. In the end my opinion of me is what needed to matter the most and it's where I utterly failed.

how does a wayward (who is attempting R) deal with the criticism, anger, blame, name-calling, that often follows the D-Day?

You just do. If you can't it speaks to the same broken part that was seeking validation. Only you know who you are, what's truly inside and how many changes you are making. Just like external validation should not be sought after to make us feel better about ourselves so to should the insults and name calling not make us feel any worse. You work on yourself, through reading, posting, IC, internalizing, and figuring out your shit. You just blew your BS's world apart how do you expect them to react? To not be able to deal with it, well perhaps you may want to put the idea of R on hold until you have a better sense of self. R is not easy, and anger, blame and name calling is the least of what must be dealt with.


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

"To be loyal to myself is to allow myself to grow and change, and challenge who I am and what I think."


Posts: 2767 | Registered: Oct 2012
Brokenheart777
Member
Member # 38561
Default  Posted: 12:03 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

Unagie,
In in my own experience, I would say that I buy in to this thought process of being jealous. I guess it's not really viewed in the sense of revenge on a BS for not having seemingly as many problems, but I know in my case, my WGF had numerous problems that she internalized and I can only imagine that it bothered her that I was so happy all the time. I think it's a minor factor overall.
The point of outside validation is something that I am soaking up from SLH's post. It basically organizes all the thoughts that I've had in my head about how WGF had been feeling throughout the years. The countless times that I would be verbally chastised by her because someone else complimented her on a certain evening that I did not. It's about loving yourself first. Not externalizing your own insecurities and issue on to your SO.

Thank you for your post SLH.


ME - A new person
HER - A waining memory
DDay - 2/22/2013
2-3 month EA/PA
Together for 6 years, ready to start my life . . .

"I can fill the flask up, but can't get past us
I'm in the storm, staying strong, but can't get back


Posts: 177 | Registered: Feb 2013
Kelany
Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 12:09 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

My fwh did tell me he was jealous of the fact that I had friends and a support system. I can't help that I'm outgoing, that I seek support when needed, that I've been a network of friends. He hasn't, I can't do that for him. He isolated himself.


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
hardlessons
Member
Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 12:17 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

I don't want to throw the compliments back and I try to accept them at face value.

SB, you don't have to do anything with them, accept or reject, when you feel they are coming from a healthy place then cool, accept them.

Many times people throw compliments out (honest or not) as a fishing exercise, they cast their net of praise in hopes of getting some back to feed their own need for validation.


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 880 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
hardlessons
Member
Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 12:21 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

So if the need for external validation drives many of the waywards into affairs, then how do they cope with the aftermath in an attempt to reconcile?

For me, it like the A came down to choice. While validation was a driver, I chose to do what I did. The way I dealt with it after dday was I drowned out the need for validation with a need to get better, different driver and I made a different choice. Lot of ups and downs the past year but that was the basic driver that has allowed me to be in R.


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 880 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
hardlessons
Member
Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 12:24 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

dupe, duhh

[This message edited by hardlessons at 12:24 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)]


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 880 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
Kelany
Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 12:29 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

Now I'm the one that wants validation. Not from others, but him. I know I shouldn't, but I do because of the havoc the A's caused on my self esteem and confidence. I don't understand how to overcome that.


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
LA44
Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 12:34 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

This is REALLY good stuff! I am having too many aha moments to jot down right now. Darn....bus with kids coming in 10. Back later!

Wonderboy, I had that very thought myself.

JanaGreen: Were we separated at birth?


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2483 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
AFrayedKnot
Member
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 1:09 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)


Now I'm the one that wants validation. Not from others, but him. I know I shouldn't, but I do because of the havoc the A's caused on my self esteem and confidence. I don't understand how to overcome that.

^^^so true!!! But for me it is only at home. I am very confident on my job. I am very confident in my 12 step fellowship. I am confident in my social life. I am confident in yoga and other hobbies.

But.... I pull in the driveway and I automatically feel like an undesirable pathetic loser, constantly searching for attention and validation.


BS 40
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2647 | Registered: Aug 2012
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 1:22 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

Now I'm the one that wants validation. Not from others, but him. I know I shouldn't, but I do because of the havoc the A's caused on my self esteem and confidence. I don't understand how to overcome that.

But.... I pull in the driveway and I automatically feel like an undesirable pathetic loser, constantly searching for attention and validation.

I understand both of these statements. I had just started to get to a place in my work as a WS where my self esteem was getting better and I was doing a good job with validating myself. Then I discovered Hlessons EA and it took a pretty good hit. After all she was quite a bit younger than him and that is something I can never achieve.

Something I have figured out over this past year is that while him reassuring me that I am the one he wants does help me, my self esteem is mine. It is up to me to fix this. And I have made it my job AGAIN to fix this hit to me. Slowly but surely, with some of the things I have put in place, I am feeling better again. I know, that whether he likes me or not, desires me or not, I am good. I like me. And ultimately, that is what counts.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5094 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
floridaredman
Member
Member # 15122
Default  Posted: 1:37 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

So if the need for external validation drives many of the waywards into affairs, then how do they cope with the aftermath in an attempt to reconcile?

wonderboy,

For me it was getting to remorse. I actually got a chance to feel what my wife went through and that alone was enough to stop me from seeking validation elsewhere.
I didn't want to put anyone else, especially my wife, through that pain again.
That's when I started to get to the root of what drove me to do what I did in the first place.
I learned that no one can really validate me, only I can.


The simplest thing can be the hardest thing to do....FRM

Posts: 2537 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Florida
wert
Member
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

Something I have figured out over this past year is that while him reassuring me that I am the one he wants does help me, my self esteem is mine. It is up to me to fix this. And I have made it my job AGAIN to fix this hit to me. Slowly but surely, with some of the things I have put in place, I am feeling better again. I know, that whether he likes me or not, desires me or not, I am good. I like me. And ultimately, that is what counts.

WS/BS = Same - same. Very nice.



Posts: 1435 | Registered: Jan 2012
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 2:04 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

I didn't want to put anyone else, especially my wife, through that pain again

So, what happens if you no longer care about the other person? What if the other person's actions and behaviors have eroded your respect and love for them? What now is your stop sign?

If your spouses pain is your reason to not cheat how does that really address your problem areas to begin with?

My ex wasn't in pain and got off on it. Using his pain as a benchmark for my actions would have gotten me nothing.

What about your self respect? Isn't that the nexus regardless of your feelings for the "target"?


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
Kelany
Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 2:06 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

I definitely do know that I need to fix that within myself. My self esteem has never been stellar to begin with. But I was getting to be comfortable in my own skin until his affairs. But I see it as the ultimate rejection from him. And it's so very hard to overcome that. It's nice to say I need to change and fix that within myself, I just don't know how to put that into practice.


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
Kelany
Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 2:07 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

By the way, this post is very therapeutic. Again I thank you all for your honesty and willingness to share.


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 2:18 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

SB,

I think that unfortunately or fortunately, however you want to look at it, because we are madhatters, I had a true understanding from the get go that his A was not about me. It was about his brokenness. Because of that I could step back and most of the time not let it be about me. There were times where my low self esteem stepped up and smacked me and tried very hard to make it about me. And I would slide back into self loathing. That was when I would usually reach out to my other WS friends and they would remind me what it was about. Those friends were my light in the darkness in the early days, UO, MJ,WS.

As I got stronger I started getting back to the things that made me feel good about me, doing better in school and really focusing on it, getting better grades. Doing things for me, nails, pedicures, small things, enjoying time to myself. Allowing myself the freedom to heal at my pace.

But the biggest step is realizing this was not about you.

[This message edited by tired girl at 2:18 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)]


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5094 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
KBeguile
Member
Member # 38348
Default  Posted: 2:18 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

wonderboy said:
So if the need for external validation drives many of the waywards into affairs, then how do they cope with the aftermath in an attempt to reconcile?

After my wife's affair was discovered, I know that I wasn't exactly heaping praise on my wife. If there is a reliance on this validation, how does a wayward (who is attempting R) deal with the criticism, anger, blame, name-calling, that often follows the D-Day?

Do you fix a clock before it's broken, or does the clock becoming broken make you realize and seek out instinctively what broke it in the first place in order to repair it or make the determination to throw it away?


Me: fWS 32
Her: BS 35 (HeartInADustpan)
DS: 4yo
M: 7 years
DDays: 2012/11/14, 2013/02/05, 2013/03/09
-
"Everything that happens now is happening 'now.'"
"What happened to 'then'?"
"We passed 'then.'"

Posts: 801 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: St. Louis
EmotionalFool
Member
Member # 37362
Default  Posted: 2:32 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

According to me, the need for external validation is only a surface level reason. It goes deeper. There are reasons why you need it.

I can only speak from what I have been reading and exploring on my part. As a child, i made myself responsible for my parents mood. I have a younger brother who was very naughty as a child. And it was a HUGE responsibility to take care of him. My parents used to be very stressed when it came to him. So i just assumed the responsibility of being the "nice kid". I behaved in a certain way and if din, i just hid it from them. I developed this pattern in all the relationships. Taking responsibilty of how the other person feels. Basically I was "making" them like me. Hence whenever they complimented me, it din really count as Duh!!! i was working for that. OTOH if some stranger out of blue says something nice it feels real as I din "make" him do it.

All this happens on a very unconscious level. Even I cant warp my head around it . and every time it feels like "really?? WTF!! why would i do that". I dont have the confidence that anybody would like me for being ME because I never let myself have that corrective experience.

I needed the external validation from people close to me as that was the only way I could figure out how to behave.. or what parts of me to hide(to avoid being disliked) but when they did, it din count and i was left feeling "not likable"

If people said they liked me, I would question "why?"

External validation can take many many forms .. there are other reasons too for me and strangely low self esteem is not one of them.

The thing with self esteem is - it stems from what you think about yourself.. Honestly we can make ourselves believe anything! so working on self esteem just seems illogical to me.

According to my understanding "Now i wont seek external validation" approach isnt gonna take anybody anywhere. You need to get to the bottom of it.

Not that I have but I am trying. This shit is pretty twisted.

[This message edited by EmotionalFool at 2:36 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)]


WW: 28 (ME)
BH: 28 (SI profile: CrappyLife)
D-Day- 15/10/12

Posts: 334 | Registered: Nov 2012
Kelany
Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 2:43 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

This shit is pretty twisted

Now that's absolute truth!


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
KeepOnMovin
Member
Member # 38245
Default  Posted: 3:10 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

BS here. I come into the WS forum rarely. I like to try to learn what may have been behind STBXWW’s actions, but it’s hard because I am envious of the BS’s who actually have a WS working on themselves. But this thread has helped me. I’m glad I came along.

STBXWW moved out in January. During a recent argument, she told me she wouldn’t have even started talking to “those guys” if I had been there for her. This made absolutely no sense to me, as I was always there for her. The emotional distance in the relationship was all created by her. She would tell me she needed space, so I gave her space. Girls night out whenever she wanted, and even vacations with her friends instead of the family.

Past MC turned into her complaining about me. First it was she needs help taking the kids to school, so I started going in late to work so I could help her. Then it was she needed help picking them up from school (but I couldn’t do both; go in late and come home early). Then it was me not helping with the cooking (I already did 90% of the laundry, and we had a house keeper), so I started to take turns cooking. Then it was I don’t help with the grocery shopping, so I took over the grocery shopping. Then it was I don’t help with the meal planning and creating the list so I took that on too. Then it was my fault she was unhappy with her career, so I took over the household 100% in the evenings and paid for her to get her masters degree.

If I complimented her hair she’d say she needed to get it cut. If I complimented dinner she said it was easy. If I complimented her weight loss, she said her legs were fat. I never realized what she was doing until now. I realize she’s not a humble person, but she definitely could not take a compliment from me.

I finally realize she needed to alienate me to create distance and demonize me to justify what she wanted to do. Her behavior suggests a MLC. It didn’t matter at all that I tried really hard to help her feel good about herself, she didn’t believe it and needed animosity toward me to get out.


Me: BH
Her: who cares?
Married: 22 years
2 sons at home
1 son in college
Divorced on 9/4/14!
Often it's the deepest pain which empowers you to grow into your highest self.

Posts: 342 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
floridaredman
Member
Member # 15122
Default  Posted: 3:16 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

If your spouses pain is your reason to not cheat how does that really address your problem areas to begin with?

It was more of a wake up call than addressing my own problems. It was more of a catalyst to get me to address my problems. If I could hurt someone like this..who am I really?


The simplest thing can be the hardest thing to do....FRM

Posts: 2537 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Florida
wert
Member
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 3:32 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

who am I really?

You know perhaps a WS should really be answering that question - who - instead of why?

On the other hand shouldn't we all?

take care...



Posts: 1435 | Registered: Jan 2012
stilllovinghim
Member
Member # 29971
Default  Posted: 3:34 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

Wow. Never expected so many responses.
Keep in mind that I didn't post this as a reason for my A, but more to address questions from another forum and I do agree that "seeking validation" isn't a reason to have an A, but really, what is? Validation is one of the branches on the tree and some of us WS, like myself, didn't know I was looking for validation when I had my A, hell, I'd never heard of that before. Of course I knew someone was looking for attention when they dressed provocativly or cutting themselves, etc. But at the time I didn't see it so clearly as I do now and I didn't recognize it within myself as I do now...I know I'm leaving some more stuff out but my fingers aren't typing as fast as my brain is thinking.

UO, I believe you asked some questions on the previous page and I owe you an explanation, sorry for the delay.
I get what you meant about the collectors, however since I'm not one it wasn't sitting on my brain. I do very much agree with your analogy and I'm sure I left some more *types * out so thank you for the contribution. shows.
I could be wrong in my assumption, but I think you feel the way you do because you were used to such abuse from one relationship to the next; your mother and your ex. So you figured out a way to validate yourself...I didn't. Neither one of us made the right choose in the end. I'm not saying this to point fingers by no means. As far as my feelings? Honey at that time I had none. I literally remember the day I gave up. I just completely gave up. I figured no one cares about me, why should I care about them? It was a pity party at best and the first time I heard having an a was like soul suicide- your words? I said to myself, "that's the absolute best way to describe it." Of course I loved my H and my compliments were real, but if you look at it, at the time of my A and leading up to it, my actions weren't loving and I'm sure I wasn't doing much complimenting at the time.

Having bachstage passes and knowing him genuinely how great he is, would nag at me but it wasn't enough to stop me from having my A, I'd think of him and quickly push him out of my mind. I didn't WANT to think of him. I was mad at him for my own selfish reasons. He didn't do anything wrong, it was me. Remember Groundhogs Day with Bill Murray? The inn keeper with the coffee was so sweet and Bill Murray looked like he was going to stab her. She was cheerful and helpful and he was all the more bitter and hate-filled. Needle-nose Ned Ryerson! Poor guy was trying to sell insurance and Bill Murray HATED the guy. For what? Because of Bill Murrys own fuckedupedness...and because of the Ned's overly jovial "BING!"

How have I changed this need? By making it a habit. By reminding myself of my worth, remembering what I've learned here at SI and by basically telling myself I can either stay stagnant and have my world really fall to shit, or get the fuck up and do something. My H is moving to a better placd and I can either stay or get up and join him. I do have to remind myself of things at times and give myself little pep talks, but I know I'm doing so much better.

I'm glad you guys can understand what I'm saying and I'm especially glad that this topic has not only helped communications between BS's and WS's; theirs or the ones on SI, but it more importantly has people looking into themselves, BS & WS and I think that's awesome!

That is MY validation.

[This message edited by stilllovinghim at 4:14 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)]


“You have a choice. Live or die.Every breath is a choice. Every minute is a choice. Every time you don't throw yourself down the stairs, that's a choice. Every time you don't crash your car, you re-enlist.”
― Chuck Palahniuk, Survivor

Posts: 1942 | Registered: Oct 2010
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 3:41 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

You know perhaps a WS should really be answering that question - who - instead of why?

I feel this is exactly right. I was having a conversation with a another SI'er yesterday about how after DD I felt at war with myself. I didn't ever post about this, but I looked like I had been the one cheated on after DD, I couldn't eat, I didn't sleep, my hair fell out in clumps. I was at war with myself. I no longer knew who I was anymore. I had betrayed myself at my core level. There was nothing left. I remember having a very vivid visual of myself being in mirrored shards on the ground and I couldn't put the pieces back together. Who was I?

It was a long way back from that place. Waywards have to understand that the betrayal is to themselves first, to everyone else after, start there and fix it.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5094 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
wert
Member
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 3:55 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

I felt at war with myself.

My W has said the same thing. Its a great question for the BS as well. Who the hell is this person I am with?

That can be both negative and positive and the transition between the two has been fun for me. In other words, at first I would say who is this stupid child who behaves like this? Now I say, who is this women? and I wonder at her depth and insights.

I mean don't get me wrong its not as if anyone and I mean anyone hits some magical point of being healed. It's the exploration that is the game, hey?



Posts: 1435 | Registered: Jan 2012
Unagie
Member
Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 4:04 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

Wert and TG I can agree with that. I really did look horrid after DDay as well. I didn't eat, couldn't sleep for days at a time, barely recognized myself in the mirror but not because I wasn't taking care of myself but because I didn't know who I was anymore. I would look at pictures of myself and remember asking myself who is this woman. I also remember the day I looked in the mirror and didn't flinch, it was 5 months after dday. I spoke out loud. I said your name is Unagie, you cheated on SO, you told him the truth, you are doing the work to figure out who you were, who you are and who you want to be, you are figuring out how you could disrespect yourself and your relationship so badly, and you are doing a good job.

I felt stronger that day, but I also know the road ahead is long. It took me a long time to stop thinking I had disrespected just him and to realize how much damage I had done to myself.


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

"To be loyal to myself is to allow myself to grow and change, and challenge who I am and what I think."


Posts: 2767 | Registered: Oct 2012
libertyrocks
Member
Member # 38924
Default  Posted: 4:19 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

Chico, I don't even want to start my car when I get to the parking lot after work. I just sit there for a few minutes...

But.... I pull in the driveway and I automatically feel like an undesirable pathetic loser, constantly searching for attention and validation.

[This message edited by libertyrocks at 4:19 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)]


Me-BW 36. STBXH-35,Recovering Alcoholic, M6yrs T13. Boys 2 & 4 1/2.
DDay #1 Nov,2012. 1 1/2 year false R & TT. 10 OW PA's 1LTA (W lied to) 3 years.
S Nov, 2013 again Jan,2014
Filed for D Feb,2014.

Posts: 962 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: So Cal, baby. :)
Sal1995
Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 5:08 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

But I see it as the ultimate rejection from him.

Samantha, I think we all go through that to some extent, but I think you need to ask yourself if there's any woman in the world your husband could have been with that he wouldn't have eventually betrayed. My guess is no, because the same issues would have existed inside of him, regardless of who he was with.

Model Elizabeth Hurley's beauty didn't stop Hugh Grant from seeking a strung-out Vegas prostitute. Apparently actress Eva Longoria wasn't hot enough to keep Tony Parker from straying. I think one of the toughest things for us BS's to do is to not see our wayward's brokenness as a reflection of our worth, desirability, etc. Easier said than done, I know. But not rational when you think about it.


Me (BS)-45, WW-43
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
M - 18 years, 4 children
Reconciling

Posts: 1462 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
LA44
Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 5:09 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

Its a great question for the BS as well. Who the hell is this person I am with?

BS here. I always thought he was more "together" then me. More confident, not judgmental, more patient, smarter, kinder.

One of the first things I asked that D-Day night was, "who are you?" He just looked at me blankly.

And he too looked like hell. Like every lie, every crappy little deceptive moment between us, every first-look-at myself-in-the-irror-the-morning-after-a night with the AP, was on his face for weeks on end. Yeah. He was at war with himself.

Who is he now? He said he doesn't even recognize that person. He's working on figuring it out. I asked him to join SI. Maybe he will chime in one day.

For me, I still think he is kind, smart, and more patient with the kids. I know he is a good man who made some terrible choices. I know this much is true.

Incidentally, after reading this spec thread, I did one of those charts with Validation in the centre and all kinds of stems shooting from it. I felt like Russell Crowe in the Beautiful Mind writing out some half-cocked formula. Just trying to find my sanity.

Thank you guys and gals. I have learned a lot about myself too, from this post.
LA

[This message edited by LA44 at 7:27 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)]


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2483 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
WalkinOnEggshelz
Member
Member # 29447
Default  Posted: 6:26 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

Wow, this thread really took off since I left for work this morning!

I personally always knew that I craved validation. Lets face it, we all want validation in our lives. What I did not know, however was that there was no full point. That no amount of validation would ever be enough to fill my tank. What I wanted, I felt I needed and I needed way too much of it.

The really sad part is that had I been listening, I was really getting it the whole time. And when I did hear it, I was so wrapped up in feeling bad about myself that I couldn't believe it.

I'm one of those that felt my husband told me things because he had to. He was obligated as my husband to be kind to me. I felt he liked me well enough but I also felt he had settled on me in most ways. I felt that if something better came along my happy marriage would be in shambles. I feared him leaving me alone. Validation from him was greatly important to me because it helped give me a sense of false security. But in trying to get validation from him I set myself up for failure. Doing my hair and makeup, dressing up, or wearing new shoes. Waiting for compliments that didn't come. Surely he didn't care if I had put so much effort into looking nice and he never even noticed, right? So then the resentments would build. Enter MOM who was willing to go through hoops and fire to lavish me with compliments, well that must be real. Why else would he take such risks if I weren't worth it?

As we all know that's all bullshit. MOM would have said anything to fuck me, not because I am all that and worth it but because I was a willing participant. It turns out that BH thinks I look my best when I have my hair thrown up in a ponytail and a t shirt and cargo pants. That being cute is not a four letter word. And that I had to stop the inner dialogue so that I could finally soak in what was going on around me.

I had to learn to stop living out of fear of an outcome that may or may not exist. I had to learn to start living my life and doing things because they were right and felt good. Once I began doing that I started feeling good about myself and the person I was growing to be. I can honestly say that I like myself these days. Do I still like validation? Of course. But I have a much better understanding of what's healthy and what's not.

Ironically I know that the tables have turned and much of what I perceived before is now HT's burden. We are trying our damnedest to break that cycle. Some days are better than others. But the biggest difference is that neither one if us are in the dark anymore. As uncomfortable as it may be, we talk about it. And that makes all the difference in the world.


Me: WS 42
Him: BH 43(HoldingTogether)
M: 18years, together 22
2 Daughters: 13 and 10
D Day: 7/24/2010; TT to 10/17/10
If you keep asking people to give you the benefit of the doubt, they will eventually start to doubt your benefit.

Posts: 741 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
thinkingclear
Member
Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 6:42 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

BS here. I can't thank everyone enough for their thoughts and sharing their experiences. Outstanding work. Definitely worth the price of admission and has helped me see my WW in a new light. Aww, who am I kidding? It has helped me see myself in a new light as well.

[This message edited by thinkingclear at 6:51 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)]


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
still-living
Member
Member # 30434
Default  Posted: 10:16 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

External validation was, I told myself, what I wanted from an A.

Ok, and I agree my wife was also seeking external validation at times, but in my opinion external validation was just another "fix" for my wife. Graduating from college, getting married, moving to a new state, new job, another state, another job, another state, another job, another job, increasing our salaries, bigger house, leather couches, second house, big screen tv, third house, more tvs, pool, paint, redecorate, car, car. Things started to slow down in the material department so she turned to plastic surgery, botox, laser ablation, then a Valium prescription, then night clubbing, pole dancing classes, getting a tatoo, going out with the girls, etc., etc., etc, etc,. These all provided her with a temporary fix but not true happiness". And she dropped the MOM like a bad habit when I discovered her affair, because it was arranged with "no strings attached", because it wasn't about him, it was about her. If she had only had her affair sooner, my life would have been alot easier.


BH(me)47
WW 47 FOO Issues
DDay 11/09 Coworker
High School Sweethearts
Married 06/91
8 months TT
Sons 19 and 14
Recovery is constructing a pyramid of inference from which to see clearer.
The process involves using the reflexive loop.

Posts: 787 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Ches
libertyrocks
Member
Member # 38924
Default  Posted: 9:45 AM, June 13th (Thursday)

Samantha Baker, I bet you are really beautiful and hot. I always thought, it doesn't matter what you look like, even the most beautiful women get cheated on. But, I TOTALLY get how it could shatter your self esteem. Mine's screwed up as well and I'm making it a priority to build it back up these days. The 180 is working on me! When I first read it through blurry crying eyes, I thought I would NEVER get there. Now, I don't even call H. He's so into me. And, I'm not even sure I want him anymore...


Me-BW 36. STBXH-35,Recovering Alcoholic, M6yrs T13. Boys 2 & 4 1/2.
DDay #1 Nov,2012. 1 1/2 year false R & TT. 10 OW PA's 1LTA (W lied to) 3 years.
S Nov, 2013 again Jan,2014
Filed for D Feb,2014.

Posts: 962 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: So Cal, baby. :)
Brokenheart777
Member
Member # 38561
Default  Posted: 5:50 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

The clarity in this thread pains me. It's shit that I wish WGF would see in herself. I guess you actually have to put some effort towards working on yourself to see this kind of stuff though.


ME - A new person
HER - A waining memory
DDay - 2/22/2013
2-3 month EA/PA
Together for 6 years, ready to start my life . . .

"I can fill the flask up, but can't get past us
I'm in the storm, staying strong, but can't get back


Posts: 177 | Registered: Feb 2013
Topic Posts: 61