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User Topic: is this a normal reaction? BS's responses welcome!
Alyssamd24
Member
Member # 39005
Default  Posted: 8:10 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

Since Dday my BH has done some interesting things, and I'm not sure if they are normal reactions from a BS or something more...he has made physical changes; started wearing contacts even though he has always been terrified of them and started working out.
For my birthday I went out to dinner with a few friends and BH went to the bar with my former best friend and her new boyfriend, even though he knows I am not ok with him hanging out with her and have felt that way since she and I stopped talking.

Neither of us have posted anything on fb about our separation, but he has had many posts about hanging out with female coworkers and even posted a pic of him, our dd, a female coworker and her two children in Boston....he had taken Our dd to Boston for the day and just happened to run into the coworker and her children.

Most recently he had the previously mentioned female coworker over to our house for dinner while our daughter was also there....this happened last night actually and I found out when our dd innocently mentioned it to me. When I confronted him about it he said it was totally innocent and they are just friends....I should also mention that this coworker is a woman who I do not trust.....she has had multiple affairs with many different married men and tends to put her own needs in front of her children.
Is this a normal way for a BS to react? Part of me thinks he is doing it only to get back at me and make me angry, but I'm not sure.


"I need to be redeemed to the one I've sinned against because he's all I ever knew of love"

Posts: 737 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Massachusetts
Daisy312
Member
Member # 36813
Default  Posted: 8:23 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

When one is cheated on, they often feel worthless, and lose self esteem. What your BS is doing probably doesn't have anything to do with you, but a way for him to feel attractive, and desired which you took from him when you chose to be with another person. My H had his A while I was pregnant. After the baby, I lost weight so fast, started running, tanning, getting manis/pedis, and buying new clothes. I look better than before, and I love the attention I get from other men as well as my H. I'm not trying to make him jealous, but help myself feel better about myself.

Posts: 245 | Registered: Sep 2012
Alyssamd24
Member
Member # 39005
Default  Posted: 8:25 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

Thank you Daisy. I do understand that and think it makes total sense....I guess I am more curious about the other ways he is acting


"I need to be redeemed to the one I've sinned against because he's all I ever knew of love"

Posts: 737 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Massachusetts
stilllovinghim
Member
Member # 29971
Default  Posted: 8:34 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

Slight t/j:
Daisy, hon, you're on a very slippery slope and you're lying to yourself.
Endt/j

Alyssa,
Are you and your H getting back together or are you both in agreement to D? Yes you created a problem when you had an A, but it sounds like your H is priming for an RA and at the very least it sounds like he's engaged in an EA with this OW.

YOU did nothing to deserve him treating you like this. If you guys are in R or S but wanting to work on your M, and that needs to be clear on both sides, then him having a date with your DD to give the impression of "innocence" which, by the wat is pretty fucked up, this is not R.

Talk to your H. Right now it sounds like he's single and yes, you are allowed boundaries and if this makes you uncomfortable you don't have to just take it, okay?

[This message edited by stilllovinghim at 8:34 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)]


“You have a choice. Live or die.Every breath is a choice. Every minute is a choice. Every time you don't throw yourself down the stairs, that's a choice. Every time you don't crash your car, you re-enlist.”
― Chuck Palahniuk, Survivor

Posts: 1942 | Registered: Oct 2010
ThoughtIKnewYa
Member
Member # 18449
Default  Posted: 8:47 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

I don't know if it's normal or not, but i know it isn't healthy.

After d-day, I stepped-up my workouts- partly to burn some of the nervous energy I had and partly because my self-esteem was shattered. When it came to the opposite sex, though, I basically shut down all contact except with our best friend who lives across the country. Many of my friends are male and they've been friends since we were kids with nothing inappropriate- ever. Still, I felt I was in a vulnerable place and I didn't want to create any MORE devastation in my life.

I took it a bit too far, though, because I'm a bit agoraphobic, now. Anything taken to extremes can be bad for you, so now I have to deal with the issues caused by my isolating myself. Our d-day anniversary is in a couple of weeks. It was six years ago.


Posts: 11398 | Registered: Mar 2008
BeyondBreaking
Member
Member # 38020
Default  Posted: 8:48 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

Did he ever hang out with females as friends innocently before your affair?

If so- I'm guessing that your guilty conscious is projecting. I have noticed that at least in my life, I can tell that someone is cheating on me or has done so because they are all of a sudden very jealous of me being friends with men, despite the fact that I have never crossed any lines or boundaries.

If this is completely foreign behavior, it is possible that your affair made him feel bad about himself and he is trying to reach out and make himself feel attractive again.

At the same time, it could be that is is trying to even the score- not necessarily saying he will have an affair, but by making you jealous.

I'm guessing this wont be an easy topic for you to bring up with him- his reaction might very well be very hostile ("are you serious? You had an affair and yet I am questioned for having a friend? WTF?"). Probably a MC discussion.


I have been cheated on by 3 different men, and I have more DDays than anyone ever should. I am here, just trying to pickup the pieces.

At least the current man "only" cyber-cheated.

"Love means never having to say you're sorry."


Posts: 840 | Registered: Jan 2013
Skan
Member
Member # 35812
Default  Posted: 8:52 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

BW here. He should not be hanging out with his co-worker and he DEFINATLY should not be having her over for dinner at the house unless you two are divorcing. He''s heading down a slope to infidelity with a known homewrecker. He may be doing it to try to feel better about himself, he may be doing it as a payback, or he may be completely obvious as to what the likely outcome is going to be, but this is not healthy behavior for a married man any more than you going out and dating would be healthy behavior for a WW who is trying to R her marriage.

As for the bodybuilding, contacts, etc., that''s pretty normal. We BS tend to go in one of two ways completely falling apart and not taking care of our selves, or getting into ass-kicking shape as a way to manage stress and help ourselves feel better about us.


Imagine a ship trying to set sail while towing an anchor. Cutting free is not a gift to the anchor. You must release that burden, not because the anchor is worthy, but because the ship is.

D-Day, June 10, 2012



Posts: 4585 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: So California
inconnu
Member
Member # 24518
Default  Posted: 8:52 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

I'd say it's a normal reaction, in that many BS's have it, but the reasons behind why each individual BS does it varies so much, there's no normal there.

For me, I started doing things for myself that I had stopped doing - wearing makeup, getting my hair cut into a real style and keeping up with it, buying cute clothes instead of my usual baggy t-shirt/jeans sahm attire, and so on. Losing a lot of weight due to the infidelity diet sure didn't hurt, either.

Sure, on some level, I wanted now-ex to notice, but mostly I was doing those things because I was finally taking the time and making the effort to take care of myself.

And I truly didn't do it to get attention from other men. Oh, I got the attention, but I didn't want it. It creeped me out, big time.

I think I may be one of the few BS here on SI that didn't have self-esteem issues after d-day. I actually got more confident in myself, than I had been during the marriage. I had spent a lot of years seeing myself the way I thought my husband did. I was most likely wrong, because he probably didn't pay enough attention to me to form that opinion, but that's another thread. Anyway, once I realized how big of a liar he was, it was as if his opinion, or rather my perception of his opinion, of me didn't matter anymore. I was done seeing myself the way I thought he saw me, and instead I started looking at myself honestly. And I wanted, and still want, to take care of who I am.

People with battered self esteem though, could have very different reasons for making changes like I did. Or they could just be following advice like what we tell the new BS's here - take care of yourself.


Say what you wanna say and let the words fall out...honestly
I wanna see you be brave

Pretty pretty please, don't you ever ever feel
Like you're less than, less than perfect


Posts: 12124 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: TX
HardenMyHeart
Member
Member # 15902
Default  Posted: 8:59 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

Without knowing your BS it is tough to call this normal, but it is definitely not unusual following the discovery of an affair. Whether the behavior is appropriate depends on where he is with respect to the marriage. If you both are planning to R, then you need to be up front about the boundaries regarding the opposite sex. This puts you in the awkward position of being somewhat hypocritical, but it's still important to have the discussion. The more remorse you show regarding your own actions, the better your position will be.

If he is doubtful about the future of the marriage, then he may be looking for new relationships and friendships in order to build a support system when the time comes to leave the marriage. If those friendships are with someone you don't like, then he knows what he does will not get back to you.

You both need to have a truly open and honest discussion about the future and the expectations you both have. Given where you currently are, it may be best if you can see a MC to help guide you both along. Preferably an MC that knows how to deal with infidelity.

Part of me thinks he is doing it only to get back at me and make me angry

Of course that is part of what he is doing. When someone is angry, they often lash out by trying to punish the person that caused the damage. Try to recognize this and respond with compassion, not more anger. Anger is poison when trying to R.

[This message edited by HardenMyHeart at 9:01 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)]


Me: BH, Her: FWW - Long Term EA/PA
d-day: June 25, 2007
Married 29 years, Happily Reconciled

Posts: 5622 | Registered: Aug 2007
Alyssamd24
Member
Member # 39005
Default  Posted: 9:11 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

at this point we are working towards R I think...the reason I say I think is I want my marriage back and want to R....BH at this point is unsure of what he wants. We are both in IC, and plan on doing MC eventually.
He never hung out with female friends before the A and knows how I feel about this one specific friend...I have never trusted her or been comfortable with her even before the A.
I tried to explain to BH why I was upset and I am worried something may happen between them to which he responded "you are the one who fucked someone else, not me." I realize this comment was totally deserved but I feel like that is only an underlying issue here....I know that I fucked up big time and can't change it or take it back...and he has told me he could never have sex with someone else....but that's what I thought also. I am worried he will have a PA just to get back at me and hurt me like I did him.


"I need to be redeemed to the one I've sinned against because he's all I ever knew of love"

Posts: 737 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Massachusetts
Jospehine85
Member
Member # 35971
Default  Posted: 9:53 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

Your BH is now cake eating Alyssamd24.

After Dday I dropped 10 pounds from not eating. I was stressed. There was definitely a desire to dress nicer as a kind of "I'll show you what you were willing to throw away" for my WH.

I did not go out with other men. I did not invite other men to our house for dinner.

And no. I was not sure I wanted to R. But I sure as heck knew that dating wasn't going to help me decide whether I wanted my WH or not.

Your BH is now a WH if he is dating yet hasn't told you point blank that your marriage is over and he is divorcing you.

I know you are a WW, but now you are also a BW. What are your boundaries going to be? I suggest you read some of the threads in JFO.

Good luck.


Me - BS 40s
WH - 50s
4 Kids
Dday May 2012

Posts: 811 | Registered: Jun 2012
wannabenormal
Member
Member # 19772
Default  Posted: 10:16 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)

I'm a chick so I think it's a little different, but I get what he's doing.

He wants you to know he's still 'got it' and can get action too - you aren't the only game in town, kwim?

It's not right, it doesn't feel good - but where he's at, he needs for you to know, you're not the end all.

You want you WS to know that while YOU might think they suck, someone else does not.



Posts: 14320 | Registered: Jun 2008
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 2:15 AM, June 13th (Thursday)

Normal, well, some consider affairs normal so, there's that. Some of the posts on this thread baffle me.

First of all, is the home he's living in both of yours? If so I'd head to an attorney and find out exactly what your rights are and also what you are responsible for. Custody should be legally determined.

Work on yourself and your choices. Move forward toward a healthy goal. He's showing you just where his mind is.

Love the "he wants to see if he's still got it"...posted in the wayward forum...with no decision to divorce by the partaker. Got what? Poor decisions and shitty coping skills exposing his children to his search for the answer to whether he still does? Yeah, he's got it. Seems its contagious.

Dear lord. Look, his enraged. Got it. Cheating on someone is one of the worst things you can do to someone. So divorce them. Perfectly reasonable response. Kicking them out while turning the home into a bachelor pad including kids in the reindeer games is fucked up. Don't give a shit what she did.

It's your home too. Find out your rights. Oh, and these women...any of them married? Think their spouses or SO's would be ok with that? I know mine sure as shit wouldn't be.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
Unagie
Member
Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 7:03 AM, June 13th (Thursday)

I'm not understanding some of the posts on here. If this was the WS doing it then its wrong because as a wayward we are broken with shitty coping mechanisms and crap boundaries but as a BS it's okay for him to invite a woman to his home who is known for sleeping around to have dinner? The whole oops we accidentally bumped into each in the city, lets take a pic and post it is ridiculous as well.

From the bit of description here it seems he's rearing up to have a RA whether it is physical or emotional remains to be seen. Just because he is also he BS does not mean he is incapable, does not mean he doesn't have his own brokenness, issues, crap boundaries and shitty coping mechanisms. Because he is a BS should you approach this sensitively? Yes. Does it mean he gets a free pass on any behavior he wants to display? Nope. This is a hard topic to approach but you must voice your concerns. There is a reason there are so many madhatters here folks, a BS can have wayward tendencies they've never acted on until their WS's A. A BS can get on the slippery slope too, being betrayed doesn't mean you automatically will never cheat. Your husband's behavior sounds like he is already on that slope and is sliding fast.


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

Do not let others be your reference for who you see in the mirror.

Stop allowing people to hurt you, because you don't love you enough to walk away.


Posts: 2637 | Registered: Oct 2012
KBeguile
Member
Member # 38348
Default  Posted: 7:30 AM, June 13th (Thursday)

From everything you've presented, Alyssa, I have to agree with Unagie, UO, and everyone else who says this reeks of foul play, and you should pry your nose into it.

His comment of "Well, I'm not the one who fucked someone else" is a total deflection. It stopped your pressing the issue of his time spent with this other woman, made it about YOU instead of him, and made you feel guilty about your own terrible choices all in one swoop. It was and is an ugly tactic - I should know, because I did plenty of deflection in my day.

If you've already done a timeline or somehow presented all other evidence of your wrongdoings and have come completely clean, then he should be willing to do the same. Pure and simple. If he's not willing to have open communication about his motivations and what he's doing, then he's pulling tricks from the WS handbook, and you should be very concerned.


Me: fWS 32
Her: BS 35 (HeartInADustpan)
DS: 4yo
M: 7 years
DDays: 2012/11/14, 2013/02/05, 2013/03/09
-
"Everything that happens now is happening 'now.'"
"What happened to 'then'?"
"We passed 'then.'"

Posts: 754 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: St. Louis
itainteasy
Member
Member # 31094
Default  Posted: 10:10 AM, June 13th (Thursday)

Yeah I would be very uncomfortable with the hanging out with someone that he KNOWS makes you uneasy...as well as inviting a woman over for dinner....and acting like it's ok because your CHILD was there? Not cool.

Also....the 'just friends' line? You know where that's going.

Have you guys read "Not Just Friends"?

I would suggest you do..

Also, like UO said, see an attorney. You can find out your rights AND still R with your BH.

I'm hoping he's not already become a madhatter.

Good luck.

It IS ok for you have limits and boundaries for what you will or won't tolerate from your BH. Just because you had an A doesn't mean he gets a free pass to date and throw it in your face.


Posts: 3300 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: NWPA
losingmyground
Member
Member # 36070
Default  Posted: 10:23 AM, June 13th (Thursday)

I would not say that this is a normal reaction for someone that is trying to work on reconciliation. It sounds more like he is done with the marriage.

I really don't think there is much you can do about it either. He is pissed right now.

I would just ask that he not bring any other women around your kids, until everything is resolved. That is the only leg you have to stand on.

I am sorry but this is what happens when people step outside their marriage...and it is more come to get this reaction if you are a WW.

I personally would never cross those boundaries while married. But I am a very loyal and forgiving person. Make no mistake though...if my FWH does it again, then I am gone.

HUGS


Married 13 yrs
3 kids 13, 10 & 1
I'm 34
FWH 37
Affair lasted 6 months
Ended 09/2011
Found out 06/2012
My father died during the affair
In the middle of Reconcilliation

Posts: 291 | Registered: Jul 2012
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 10:37 AM, June 13th (Thursday)

I am sorry but this is what happens when people step outside their marriage...and it is more come to get this reaction if you are a WW.

What happens?
The other spouse now has the right to cheat as well?

That is called a madhatter situation. Check it out in I Can relate. See how well it has worked out for some of us.

If he wants to do this, he needs to get D.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4506 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
losingmyground
Member
Member # 36070
Default  Posted: 10:42 AM, June 13th (Thursday)

What happens?

It is more common that men end a marriage because of an affair. Most men have a hard time getting past the fact that their wife "slept" with someone else. That was my point. Sorry I didn't get it across a little more clearly. And just to elaborate is hard as a woman to accept their spouse having an affair too.

The other spouse now has the right to cheat as well?

Absolutely NOT. I do not believe any person has a right to cheat. I am a firm believer that if the marriage was bad enough to cheat, then it is bad enough to warrant a divorce.

That is called a madhatter situation. Check it out in I Can relate. See how well it has worked out for some of us.

I know what it is called and I know how much worse it makes the situation. Hence the phrase that two wrongs don't make a right. It is the worse possible thing a person can do when trying to reconcile. But it does not sound like he is up for reconciliation, it sounds more like the marriage is over.

If he wants to do this, he needs to get D.

I agree 100%


Married 13 yrs
3 kids 13, 10 & 1
I'm 34
FWH 37
Affair lasted 6 months
Ended 09/2011
Found out 06/2012
My father died during the affair
In the middle of Reconcilliation

Posts: 291 | Registered: Jul 2012
Pudding
Member
Member # 37168
Default  Posted: 10:43 AM, June 13th (Thursday)

As a BS, I would agree that what he is doing is not right nor good for your R. However, it is perfectly understandable.

As the BS, he feels upset, wounded, rejected that you had an A. he feels that there must be something wrong with him, so you had to look outside the marriage, even though we all know that that is not necessarily how it works - that is what he probably feels, even if unconsciously. I would imagine that he is trying to reassure himself that he is still attractive, women still want to be with him etc.

I felt a bit like that soon after DD1. As a reaction, I went out for dinner with someone fully intending to let things happen. When it came to it, I chickened out, couldn't go through with it. I wanted revenge on my WS, but I realised that sleeping with someone else wouldn't solve our issues.. I came right me before dessert.

I think I might help if you really proved to your BH that you love him, find him attractive, want to spend time with him. yo may have had an A, but its over, he is the most important, sexy person in your life. Make him feel good, so no one else has to. Your A has been an enormous low to his self esteem.you need to convince him that it wasn't about him, but about you. Make sure he doesn't need this reassurance from anyone else. I know its hard, don't have so at him, he is trying to heal. love him through it.


Posts: 264 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: UK
cdnmommy
Member
Member # 30182
Default  Posted: 11:25 AM, June 13th (Thursday)

Feeling like you need to get your mojo back as a BS is normal.

Normal does not always equal healthy or right.

You have every reason to be concerned and to expect your BH to address those concerns.


Me: BW
DDay: Oct 2010 + 6 weeks false R
2.5 (+?) year A with married coworker/my "friend"
1 great kid.
Reconciling and healing

Posts: 1725 | Registered: Nov 2010
Unagie
Member
Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 11:58 AM, June 13th (Thursday)

However, it is perfectly understandable.

Nope. Divorce, yes. Separation, anger, name calling, yelling, arguments, therapy, getting back in shape, doing positive things to make yourself feel good again, hobbies, going back to school, getting a healthy support group are all understandable. Inviting a woman (especially one who is a known OW time and again)over to the home you still share while still being married with R still on the table is not understandable. Having your child there while you do it is not understandable. It is the exact behavior you abhorred someone doing to you but now it's understandable because you are doing it to them? It is unhealthy coping and a twisted form of healing that will do nothing but hurt more in the end. Your bartering your good conscience and integrity for a chance to stab someone and get blood on your hands.

Make sure he doesn't need this reassurance from anyone else. I know its hard, don't have so at him, he is trying to heal. love him through it.

Needing reassurance, is this the same as needing validation? Because needing validation from an outside source, yep wayward thinking. Love him through what? Him seeing another woman, as he is loving her through her A? And why shouldn't she have at him? I don't mean ranting and yelling but rather being able to voice her concerns about the fact that his behavior is sliding into a dangerous territory.

cdnmommy is right, while some may see this as normal behavior it is not healthy or right. The fact that so many are willing to say this is a consequence is ridiculous. If nothing justifies cheating, then cheating doesn't justify cheating either. It only compounds the pain. TG made a good suggestion, maybe it'd be a good idea to peek down in ICR. I've said it before no, one wants a double membership to a club they never wanted to be a part of.


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

Do not let others be your reference for who you see in the mirror.

Stop allowing people to hurt you, because you don't love you enough to walk away.


Posts: 2637 | Registered: Oct 2012
20WrongsVs1
Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 12:12 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

Wanting to "get even" is a normal reaction. But you two need to agree on what behavior you are both willing to accept, if you are going to R. For R to be possible, IMHO, both partners need to agree what the boundaries are, going forward.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1044 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
RyeBread
Member
Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 12:14 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

Betrayed Spouse here...

My first thought was "that's not good". From the behaviors you describe I think he is far from R. It's one thing to lose a sense of self confidence and self esteem. But IMHO he is taking it too far.

I will say that regardless of your choices he also has a responsibility to be honest about his intentions going forward. I would clarify with him if he is wanting to R or play the field. You can also determine what you want out of this M, whether to save it or not.


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 1018 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
alphakitte
Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 12:22 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

His behavior regarding other women is inappropriate and he is on a slippery slope. It may be revenge, or it may be that he is using your A as an excuse to do something he'd been wanting to do all along.

Regardless, it isn't healthy.


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 347 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 12:27 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

I get the response. Is it healthy, no.

In reading some of your prior posts, You have always said you wanted to reconcile. But you have never said that he has decided to try to R with you.

DDay was in December, but you didn't go no contact until a month ago in May, and you still see the AP on a regular basis.

Have you been truthful with him about everything? Really truthful?

I see a guy who is moving on with his life, but hasn't had the courage to say it to you yet. I am not saying that this is right. I am also not saying it's too late to repair the marriage, but it is both your decisions. IMO you need to figure out whether he wants to try R or not. If he wants to try R, then this shit has to stop. If he doesn't, then start the divorce proceedings.

The fact that after six months you are still separated,and that he won't commit to R, leads me to believe that the A may have been a deal-breaker for him.

[This message edited by wonderboy at 12:28 PM, June 13th (Thursday)]


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1272 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
badchoice
Member
Member # 35566
Default  Posted: 12:35 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

WS here.

I think those *feelings* are understandable, but he seems to be acting upon those feelings which is not right or healthy.


Me: fWH/BH 46

Separated transitioning to D


Posts: 723 | Registered: May 2012 | From: L.A.
solus sto
Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 1:37 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

Not normal, and not okay, and not remotely compatible with reconciliation.

I understand that one can feel hypocritical for establishing healthy boundaries with the BS post-infidelity. But really, if ever there were a time to shore up boundaries, it's when you're working to rebuild a marriage.

If he's not all in, fine. He has that prerogative. But you have the right to say, "No more."

One of the most loving things you can do---something that firmly establishes that you CARE about his well-being and your ability to move forward constructively as a couple---is to prevent him from doing things that betray himself.

Is he betraying you and your marriage right now? I'd say yes. But even if you're not ready to take it that far, he is betraying himself. He's doing what he's doing for all the wrong reasons, and even if it feels good in the moment, will not for long. It is self-destructive. His behavior wayward, even if it has not escalated to the point of physical infidelity.

In your shoes (and honestly, I would want anyone who loved me to take this approach if I were acting out), I would tell him, "I love you, and want to rebuild our marriage. Your actions right now run completely counter to reconciliation. But worse, I'm concerned that they are self-destructive. You're doing things for the wrong reason: to prove that others find you attractive, to attempt to get back what I gave away, to hurt me. I understand all of these things---but my ability to empathize doesn't mean your behavior is appropriate. It is very painful to see you hurting yourself by compromising your values. This is NOT who you are. Trust me. I know that infidelity is soul suicide. I did it to myself before I annihilated what was special between us. But I can't watch as you commit this soul suicide. I love you too much. If you want to continue seeing other women, we will have to end our marriage. I don't want that. I want to be the woman in your life. If you cannot commit to that--if you don't want to work together to see if we can make a go of this--I can't stay in a marriage where one of us is working to get healthy and the other is heading down a slippery slope."

I am very sorry for your pain and confusion. I know the inclination is to assume responsibility for what is going on. Thing is, his actions are not your responsibility.

You can only control your own thoughts, feelings, and actions.

Millions of hugs to you.


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 52, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8325 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
SandAway
Member
Member # 37775
Default  Posted: 2:24 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

I think UO was pretty spot on in her comment.

You need to start looking out for yourself. Many around here say it is pretty hard to R when living apart. He is shoving this other woman in your face. He just happened to run into her in Boston? Having her over for dinner? Going out with her for drinks? He isn't thinking about R at all. He is living in a house that belongs to BOTH of you while getting lots of alone time to go out and have fun.

I am so sorry, but it is time for you to lawyer up and look out for yourself and your daughter. I am sure she is pretty confused right now also. Maybe it will help him make a decision instead of leaving you in limbo.


fWW
BH Tred
M 16yrs
DDay Nov. 2011

Guns don't kill people; Affairs kill people


Posts: 431 | Registered: Dec 2012
NoMorDeceit
Member
Member # 23547
Default  Posted: 2:37 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

He never hung out with female friends before the A and knows how I feel about this one specific friend...I have never trusted her or been comfortable with her even before the A.

If he never hung out with female friends pre-A, how did you come to know her and "feel" uncomfortable towards her and your H's "friendship".
I ask this because I'm a big believer in gut instinct. You would not be the first WS to find out their BS had been stepping out either physically or emotionally at the same time. Is there a possibility that there has been more going on for longer than you realize? I understand you are processing your own horrible actions and dealing with the consequences, but is there the chance that while you were "checked" out of the marriage in your affair that you may have missed something? Something about this person was nagging at you pre-A or pre-DDay it sounds like.

...and they didn't just happen to bump into each other in Boston...that was a lie. It was a planned outing and he lied about it.

You did a terrible thing that he may not be able to reconcile over. Accept that. Having said that it is acceptable for you to tell him to make a decision: either file or commit to reconciling which means no conatct with female friends you are not comfortable with.

While I normally say the BS's control the terms of reconciliation when one of the terms becomes "I get to have girlfriends now because you fucked someone else"... then it is perfectly ok for the fWS to say "I don't think so".

Good luck.

[This message edited by NoMorDeceit at 2:38 PM, June 13th (Thursday)]


FBS, been through the D marathon too.
Many D Days in April 2009
Multiple affairs, LTAs, and many OWs
Reconciled... There is hope! :)


Posts: 467 | Registered: Apr 2009
aesir
Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 2:45 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

Based on reading your profile, it sounds like you are separated with no plan either way being expressed.

I think his behavior is normal. He seems to be exploring the possibilities for a "soft landing" if he proceeds with a divorce.

Just because this behavior is normal, does not make it any less inappropriate. We are all human, but I like to at least aspire to something better.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
SandAway
Member
Member # 37775
Default  Posted: 3:00 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

I think his behavior is normal. He seems to be exploring the possibilities for a "soft landing" if he proceeds with a divorce.

Really?? I don't think it's normal at all. Alyssamd24 has stated that she wants R and her BH is not sure if he does yet - That does not give him a reason to test the waters.


fWW
BH Tred
M 16yrs
DDay Nov. 2011

Guns don't kill people; Affairs kill people


Posts: 431 | Registered: Dec 2012
Nailinmyforehead
Member
Member # 38427
Default  Posted: 3:09 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

As a BS, I believe Wannabe hit it on the head for me, and this is exactly how I feel- "You want you WS to know that while YOU might think they suck, someone else does not. " Just poor self esteem.


"Son, you've got the future- shining like a piece of gold, but I swear as we get closer- it looks more like a lump of coal"

Posts: 132 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Ohio
aesir
Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 4:05 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

I think his behavior is normal. He seems to be exploring the possibilities for a "soft landing" if he proceeds with a divorce.

Really?? I don't think it's normal at all. Alyssamd24 has stated that she wants R and her BH is not sure if he does yet - That does not give him a reason to test the waters.

Check the rest of my post.

Just because this behavior is normal, does not make it any less inappropriate.

Normal does not mean good. People normally do a lot of shitty things. As UO said earlier, affairs can be considered normal.

My concern is that he is not that he is unsure of what he wants, but unsure of what he can ger, and that Alyssamd24 is already the backup plan even if he does not yet have a plan.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
lilflower1000
Member
Member # 36634
Default  Posted: 4:22 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

Sounds normal to me. After my husband had the affair, I lost about 40 lbs and started getting my hair done more often, buying new and sexier chothes etc. Everyone started telling me how good I looked. On the inside I was falling apart. I also started talking to some of males who I knew were attracted to me.
It is his way of taking care of himself. He needs to feel good about himself now. He needs to know that it is not him and that he is attractive to the opposite sex. He needs his ego stroked just like you probably did. Hopefully he will not take it too far.


lilflower1000
Me: 44 BS
Married 12 yrs
Dday:8/1/2012
True R: 12/2012
4kids(11, 8, 5, 4mos)+ 2 Step kids I love like my own

Posts: 297 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: Georgia
hardlessons
Member
Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 4:28 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

It is his way of taking care of himself. He needs to feel good about himself now. He needs to know that it is not him and that he is attractive to the opposite sex. He needs his ego stroked just like you probably did. Hopefully he will not take it too far.

Really? That is him looking for external validation. Taking care of himself? Hopefully he doesn't take it too far? How far is acceptable? As a BS what would you deem too far?


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 880 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
lilflower1000
Member
Member # 36634
Default  Posted: 4:51 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

I did not say it was acceptable, just a normal way of trying to get through it and ease the pain. As a wayward you will probably never understand the full extent of the pain. It is like you just want the pain to go away however possible. You feel so incredibly bad about yourself you don’t know what to do. The person who you thought was your everything has betrayed you in every way imaginable and then, in many cases, turns around and calls you crazy when you catch them. I have never felt pain like this in my life, so yes it is normal to want to feel wanted by someone. Is it right to cheat, no. If you can't handle staying the right thing to do is to leave. I could never go through with cheating, but it sure does SUCK to have to be the better person all the time.


lilflower1000
Me: 44 BS
Married 12 yrs
Dday:8/1/2012
True R: 12/2012
4kids(11, 8, 5, 4mos)+ 2 Step kids I love like my own

Posts: 297 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: Georgia
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 4:55 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

Oh, he understands. I am his wife. I came to SI first. As a wayward. He was betrayed.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4506 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
lilflower1000
Member
Member # 36634
Default  Posted: 5:03 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

Well, I think it is obvious what is too far, but it sounds to me like they are separated, unless I read it wrong. It does not really sound like they are in reconciliation, so that is why I said it was normal. Of course, if they are in reconciliation this is not helping. I still think it is a normal way of trying to make yourself feel better. Not right, but just normal.


lilflower1000
Me: 44 BS
Married 12 yrs
Dday:8/1/2012
True R: 12/2012
4kids(11, 8, 5, 4mos)+ 2 Step kids I love like my own

Posts: 297 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: Georgia
StrongerOne
Member
Member # 36915
Default  Posted: 5:05 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

BW here. What Skan and Josephine said, times two.

Do I understand why he's doing this? Yes. Do I think it's right? No, I do not. He is on the way to an EA if he isn't there already. And using your DD to facilitate it.

Show him the mad hatter threads in I Can Relate.


DDay Feb 2011.
In R.

Posts: 840 | Registered: Sep 2012
Ashland13
Member
Member # 38378
Default  Posted: 5:09 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

As a BS I see this with Perv (STBXH). It startled me to see him change, as he was a person who had a cow if we changed the gum drawer.

He has taken to multiple pairs of glasses, different hair do's (what there is) and has weight fluxuations that are pretty ...big differences.

He has also changed his body but I won't be graphic, just shaving where he never used to and making a point to tell me. Also, FWIW, during false R, he spoke many, many women's names who we knew but was not like that before.

Much of his conversation was about women, a neighbor he saw on the way to pick up DD, the neighbors who were moving and so on. This intensely bothered me, not because he did it, but because he did it without a care for me and he knew they were people I didn't come into contact with...like wanting me to know he notices the other species now, and now he comes across as a jigelow. I'm sorry I veered off topic of appearance, I was thinking of change in WS's in general.

He also bought a car to "commute" with and claims to want different clothes when there is more money "freed up". Part of his A has been a MLC and I try to remember that, but the changes are hard to watch and truly back up the fact of how different he is from who I knew... or thought I knew.

I, too, suffer terrible self esteem issues and feel degraded, as a result of his actions. His A with OW was only part of what he hid.

I think the lies mess with our heads and being abandoned does, too? It makes it hard to feel like I can hang onto anything or anyone and I feel like, who will I lose next?

My mother lived with us for a time after she was cheated on (not by my father, but she left him though)...so trust in people isn't something I have going now.

"Normal". I can't find anything normal about life now and a calm day feels strange...like, okay, what's brewing this time?


Ashland 13

A person is a person, no matter how small. -Dr. Suess


Posts: 2134 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: New England
Ashland13
Member
Member # 38378
Default  Posted: 5:11 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

P.S. There's some interesting activity online, too, though I don't look anymore...he puts different places he lives and there are also some places that have him as a different age. He's a person with a "fairly common name", but these are most definitely him. I've wondered in the past (not anymore) what would be the point of that, esp. when looking for a job and being inconsistent may be harmful to being hired?


Ashland 13

A person is a person, no matter how small. -Dr. Suess


Posts: 2134 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: New England
Ascendant
Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 5:20 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

BS here. I''m going to avoid the term "normal" here, and just say that I feel like it is a COMMON reaction, I think, for a variety of reasons... But certainly not conducive to R, and probably not healthy. I don''t know that this sort of reaction in the wake of a traumatic event is ALWAYS indicative of some kind of chronic self-esteem issue, or if he''s just trying to fill in the (temporary) self-esteem crater that the A bomb left behind. In either case though, it doesn''t lead to a healthy place, and having the kids involved is definitely an issue.


"The thing that always seems to be shocking to wayward wives is the simple fact that the man you choose to reconcile with is not the same man you cheated on." - a friend.

Posts: 1942 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 5:31 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

it is normal to want to feel wanted by someone

Sooooooo, when one spouse is a workaholic and unavailable that wouldn't create pain? When one spouse chooses their hobby over their spouse that wouldn't create pain and rejection? When one spouse turns sex down repeatedly making the other spouse feel like they're begging and denied that wouldn't create pain? Finding someone that "wants you" wouldn't cross one's mind?

I ask because I've seen many BS's honestly confess to pretty shitty starvation of their spouse emotionally and physcially to be told over and over again how their actions toward their spouse DO NOT MATTER. I personally feel that's total bullshit, of course they matter, however, the bottom line is THE CHOICE TO CHEAT IS ALWAYS THE CHEATER'S. Period!!!! No fucking addendum, caveat, justification, exclusion applies to that basic truth.

He has not made his intentions on the marriage clear. His actions, though, are quite clear. They're fucked up. What I struggle with is the threads in general where BS's can not seem to wrap their heads around the "wayward" mentality. Well, apparently that ain't totally true as a few seem to get it quite well. They just "understand" it when it is done by a "BS".

Y'all do realize many of us were betrayed before so get that whole intense pain core concept quite well. We also get how that can do a real number on thought processes and mind sets not shored up to sustain that type of hit.

Having a plane on the tarmac is how many people "break up". The whole alone thing is muy no bueno so finding that pre-game "support" makes the actual party so much more fun and doable. No risk of lonely too much time for thinking and hurting.

Normal, is a word used as if it equates to "ok". How many things do you see often in society that are not anywhere close to the neighborhood of ok? Half marriages end in divorce. Drinking and drugs hit a very large percentage of people. That's normal. Think that's ok?

Normal only means within the norm. The swell in the bell. Yeah, don't want to live my life in that cluster fuck, thank you very much.

He's free to make the same choices many of us have. You're free to actually make some healthy choices and find out, again, your rights regarding house and custody and protect those along with your children. Tolerating bullshit is NEVER a healthy choice for either. So stop...tolerating...anything that you know is wrong from yourself or him.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
anv5
Member
Member # 39217
Default  Posted: 5:49 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

I can't tell you if it's Normal or not but I can tell you that for the first couple day after dday it was pure pain then I had 1 day that I thought I want him to understand & feel what I feel. That thought left Very quickly because I never want to inflict what I felt on someone I love. If I were you I would make it clear that this will not help R. I made the mistake when WH & I were separated 5yrs ago I moved out & ignored a lot of things because we ended up together...now I am dealing with R because when I moved out he slept with OW & lied about it and it kills me because she played with my ds etc. He needs to make up his mind & choose because my wh will tell you...it's really bad if you do R and your wife finds out 5yrs later that you have been lying for 5 yrs. We have basically started over & the last 4yrs (to me) when things seemed great ended up a total lie. Even if you are a wayward you don't deserve to be a bs in my personal opinion ((hug))

ETA: I was not a wayward we were separated due to other issues

[This message edited by anv5 at 5:50 PM, June 13th (Thursday)]


BS(me)30
WH 29
1 Child
Married 11 yrs
D-Day: 4/9/13 he cheated in '08 & now + trickle truth & tons of lies 6/27 Found more, swears I really do have the whole truth now.
2/2/14 found out more...it seems the TT never ends.
Trying to R

Posts: 71 | Registered: May 2013
nofool4u
Member
Member # 38509
Default  Posted: 8:08 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

Since Dday my BH has done some interesting things, and I'm not sure if they are normal reactions from a BS or something more...he has made physical changes; started wearing contacts even though he has always been terrified of them and started working out.


You blew his self esteem. So he is working on himself now. A completely normal reaction. You emasculated him, so he is taking charge of his life and how he feels about himself now. I did the same thing.


For my birthday I went out to dinner with a few friends and BH went to the bar with my former best friend and her new boyfriend, even though he knows I am not ok with him hanging out with her

What do you really have to say about it though? You are separated.
Unless he makes a pass at her, you really lost the right to complain. And even then, again, you are separated.



Most recently he had the previously mentioned female coworker over to our house for dinner while our daughter was also there....this happened last night actually and I found out when our dd innocently mentioned it to me. When I confronted him about it he said it was totally innocent and they are just friends....I should also mention that this coworker is a woman who I do not trust.....she has had multiple affairs with many different married men and tends to put her own needs in front of her children.

I will agree that until any divorce is final, he needs to keep possible significant others away from the kids.

Having said that, does he need a V8 slap to the head? Doesn't he realize what will happen if he hooks up with a known cheater and OW will end up getting him? Unless he is just out for fun and no commitments, it isn't going to end well for him.

But again, you are separated, and you cheated on him. Its not your call any longer. Personally if I were him, I'd wait until a divorce was final. But he is handling the situation he has been put in in his own way. Thats on him.

Is this a normal way for a BS to react? Part of me thinks he is doing it only to get back at me and make me angry, but I'm not sure.

I think its normal, but I'd have more respect for a fellow BS, coming from a fBS, if he'd have some self respect and wait to start dating after a divorce. I'm assuming thats what is coming since you are separated.

But other than waiting, yes, its normal. You destroyed him, made him feel undesirable, so he is out to prove to himself that he is. He is out to better himself and get back in the game. I just think he is rushing it a bit. But having a "date" around the kids before a divorce, IMHO, shouldn't happen.

Now if somehow I have all this wrong and you aren't truly separated, then I suppose it still might be normal to an extent. But if you are suppose to try to work on the M, then he should not be doing this, even though you cheated on him. He should hold himself to a higher standard and simply hold your feet to the fire. But if you are to reconcile, then he too now has lost all right to complain about what you did.

[This message edited by nofool4u at 4:25 PM, June 14th (Friday)]


Me - fBS

Posts: 210 | Registered: Feb 2013
Alyssamd24
Member
Member # 39005
Default  Posted: 8:19 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

Wow...I really didn't think my post would get so many responses but am certainly glad it has.
I am hoping to R and have told him that many times. He has said he doesn't know what he wants. I have asked him multiple times to let me move back home, since I don't think we can fix anything if we aren't living together and really spending time together. He continues to say no.
I did speak to him about the situation and how it made me feel and after getting defensive he admitted that it does "look sketchy".
He has worked with this woman for many years and has always come home telling me stories about her latest conquests. When she and her H got D (after he found out about one one of her A) she was constantly calling and texting my husband looking for support


"I need to be redeemed to the one I've sinned against because he's all I ever knew of love"

Posts: 737 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Massachusetts
Alyssamd24
Member
Member # 39005
Default  Posted: 8:19 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

Wow...I really didn't think my post would get so many responses but am certainly glad it has.
I am hoping to R and have told him that many times. He has said he doesn't know what he wants. I have asked him multiple times to let me move back home, since I don't think we can fix anything if we aren't living together and really spending time together. He continues to say no.
I did speak to him about the situation and how it made me feel and after getting defensive he admitted that it does "look sketchy".
He has worked with this woman for many years and has always come home telling me stories about her latest conquests. When she and her H got D (after he found out about one one of her A) she was constantly calling and texting my husband looking for support


"I need to be redeemed to the one I've sinned against because he's all I ever knew of love"

Posts: 737 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Massachusetts
Unagie
Member
Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 8:35 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

Nofool4u I would like to know how does her having an A means that she has lost the right to have a voice when things he's doing bother or raise red flags? So she no longer has a leg to stand on for inappropriate behavior because she cheated? Cheating doesn't make someone immune to the knowledge that certain behavior is wrong, waywards know cheating is wrong and a remorseful wayward in R knows not only the damage a RA will have on their psyche but also the damage a RA will have on the psyche, integrity and self respect a BS has. From what I can read they are separated and he is fence sitting. He has not told her he wants to R and he has not told her he doesn't. IMO he's keeping her with a little hope alive by not saying no until he can find a replacement. If he wants to date which is what he's doing then he needs to file divorce and make it clear they are over. He has not done so, I think the common term for this is cake eating. And he's sure getting a mouthful.


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

Do not let others be your reference for who you see in the mirror.

Stop allowing people to hurt you, because you don't love you enough to walk away.


Posts: 2637 | Registered: Oct 2012
Mrs Panda
Member
Member # 27303
Default  Posted: 8:56 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

Alyssa, I think you know now why he doesn't want you to come home. He's having fun "playing." Wtf-ever.

To those who seem to think the tit-for-tat mentality is cool for cats, it is wayward thinking at it's finest. Welcome to the Dark Side.

Nah, it's not fucking "normal." My BH didn't do this. Neither did many others. It's certainly not the path to R. It's an emotionally immature coping strategy.

It sounds like he has already crossed the line with his relationship with this OW. Sharing relationship details her to him or vice versa, is not ok. Why would a "healthy" BH want to hang out with a known WW (not his wife)?

Alyssa, don't let the shame of your A cloud your judgement. Do you own part of the house? Can he legally keep you out? Look into your rights, with a lawyer, before you are blindsided.


Me-41 FWW Him-45BH
M 13years. Reconciled.
DDay#1 Nov 2008 (OM2)
DDay#2 Aug 2009 (Confessed to OM 2001)
"Those who believe in telekinetics, raise my hand." -Kurt Vonnegut

Posts: 1970 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: The SouthEast
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 9:42 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

I would like to point out that I totally get this perspective of the BH. I don't necessarily agree with it but let's look at it from his point of view for a second.

Dday is in December. They separate. Wayward does not break off communication with AP. Says she wants to Reconcile, but continues to lie about NC (If I am wrong..please let me know). Or Wayward says I want to reconcile, but I am still not going NC with AP. Either way...either way...devastating.

Nearly 6 months after DDAY...Wayward FINALLY says O.k. I am really going to try to go NC this time. (per OP's other threads). Well, YAY! There was only half a year of continued contact. Meanwhile, wayward is saying she wants to reconcile, but won't break off contact with AP. Does the BS have the truth? Does he have a timeline? If he did get the truth, was the wayward honest about her continued contact?

Just saying, after 6 months of being separated and my wayward not going NC...I would be done and wouldn't commit to reconcilation.

(If I am wrong on any of these dates, PLEASE feel free to let me know, I am going off OP's previous posts)

So according to OP's posts...she has been officially been NC for one month. So I guess the BS should be jumping through hoops to win her back right? Should he be dating...no, but he hasn't committed to reconcilation, his wayward kept contact with AP and still see's AP on a nearly daily basis. But he shouldn't be dating? He's moving on with his life, not sitting around hoping that his wayward wife will finally go NC with AP. And if a BS were posting in the General forum that his wife refused to go NC with the AP for 5 or 6 months after DDAY...many people in here would be saying Divorce and Move On. He has done the move on part, just not the divorce.

Yes, OP should check her legal rights. She should file for D. For some reason the BS hasn't done it yet. But he won't say he wants to reconcile. So She should get what she is entitled to.

[This message edited by wonderboy at 9:47 PM, June 13th (Thursday)]


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1272 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 10:00 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

So I guess the BS should be jumping through hoops to win her back right

Nope. Not even close. However, you're stating he's moving on with his life. Not really. He said he didn't want a divorce at this time. So, guess she should just stay out of her home and let the parade begin?

Look, no one is saying they don't get his pain from her fucked up choices. No one. It just doesn't excuse his. If he's done then file. Dating, bringing women over, going to see women bringing the kids along are not real great choices.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 10:27 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

I am not saying that these are good choices for him to make.

Earlier in the thread I said this:

I am not saying that this is right. I am also not saying it's too late to repair the marriage, but it is both your decisions. IMO you need to figure out whether he wants to try R or not. If he wants to try R, then this shit has to stop. If he doesn't, then start the divorce proceedings.

Sure I have a skewed viewed subjectively as a BS, but in my view, given the 5 to 6 months of continual contact after DDAY, I believe that I would just be "done." No, he hasn't committed to being "done", but his actions are certainly showing otherwise. IMO he has been done with the marriage for a while, now he's just trying to hurt the OP.

Nope, I am not there, don't have a clue what he is actually thinking...or even doing...but from the facts and statements that I have seen from OP, I totally get this response.

Is it helpful for R...hell no. Is it appropriate in a marriage...hell no. But, to me, it doesn't look like he considers himself married anymore. Should he man up and get a divorce if it's over..yup. But, why should he file? He has a free house, no lawyer fees.

My advice to OP is to go to a lawyer, figure it out, either have him shit or get off the pot. But get what she is entitled to and move on.

IMO he's just punishing her and has no real intention of R. And I get that too.

[This message edited by wonderboy at 10:28 PM, June 13th (Thursday)]


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1272 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
Alyssamd24
Member
Member # 39005
Default  Posted: 11:51 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

I have not done an actual timeline but have given him all the details and information he has asked for and wanted to know.
As for the continued contact with AP he didn't know about that until recently. And for the record, the only reason I still see AP on a regular basis is because I see him at work.


"I need to be redeemed to the one I've sinned against because he's all I ever knew of love"

Posts: 737 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Massachusetts
ThoughtIKnewYa
Member
Member # 18449
Default  Posted: 12:34 AM, June 14th (Friday)

Alyssa, this bothers me:
He has worked with this woman for many years and has always come home telling me stories about her latest conquests. When she and her H got D (after he found out about one one of her A) she was constantly calling and texting my husband looking for support

How long has he had a completely inappropriate relationship with this woman? Is it possible he was her OM?

Posts: 11398 | Registered: Mar 2008
Alyssamd24
Member
Member # 39005
Default  Posted: 5:20 AM, June 14th (Friday)

She has worked with him for 3-4 years....at one point I was a bit suspicious but he said they were just friends.
I don't know if this means anything but just thought of it....my husband is an EMT and works many many crazy hours...lots of overnights and 24 hours shifts....I know for a fact that this friend of his was at one point having an A with another coworker of theirs....also married. My husband has told me many times how lots of people in his field have A's and that is why so many people in EMS or related jobs end up D.
Until now I never thought she was his OM....

[This message edited by Alyssamd24 at 5:22 AM, June 14th (Friday)]


"I need to be redeemed to the one I've sinned against because he's all I ever knew of love"

Posts: 737 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Massachusetts
metamorphisis
Administrator
Member # 12041
Red  Posted: 8:06 AM, June 14th (Friday)

nofool...

Please note that none of the WS's in here are your WS, your projection isn't necessary. Please read the forum description and post accordingly. If there are any questions, pm a member of staff. Thank you.



“We don't see things as they are; we see them as we are.”... Anais Nin

Posts: 43957 | Registered: Sep 2006
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, June 14th (Friday)

I don't want to belabor tihs point but this:
but have given him all the details and information he has asked for and wanted to know.

Doesn't mesh with this:

As for the continued contact with AP he didn't know about that until recently.

If I am reading this right..you gave him all the information that you wanted him to know. You can't piecemeal out info, it's callled TT and it's utterly devastating.


I am not saying this to be harsh. But you were asking him for reconcilation while still lying to him. If you want any shot at R, then you can't just tell him what you want him to know, you have to tell him the truth.

Lay your cards on the table, IMO your chances for R are fading quickly. Don't use this forum to make yourself into a victim, you aren't. But you both need to be honest about your relationship.

[This message edited by wonderboy at 9:25 AM, June 14th (Friday)]


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1272 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
cpacan
New Member
Member # 35883
Default  Posted: 10:04 AM, June 14th (Friday)

Wow. You need to be a bit thick skinned BS to post here.

I'll try not to say what's right, wrong or normal, but just tell you a bit about my experiences post D-day.

I had been with my wife for 27 years. Never strayed, but once in a while thought about how it would be to have sex with other women. It was a close call once, but I never followed through because I loved my wife, and I didn't want to lose what I had with her - especially after we had kids together. After the close call 20 years ago, I never let any woman come too close to me, because I didn’t want my loyalty to get tested again.

Two years ago, I discovered her 9 months PA, and it was the most indescribable experience and pain I have ever had in my life. Emotions exploded in my head the following weeks and months. At the same time my wife tried to tell me that she only wanted to be with me, that she loved me, that what we had was something very special etc. Do you think that I believed her? Not a chance. I felt worthless, useless, used, tricked, double crossed, unattractive, abandoned and a whole bunch of other feelings. It was absolutely horrible. Self-esteem and self-worth was completely destroyed.

I did what other BS above described – I worked very hard on me, getting in better shape, lost 40 lbs, changed appearance – mostly to win her back, but after a while it also felt good when other people noticed the changes and complimented me. You may call it wayward thinking or not, but I needed that very badly at the time – not before, not today, but a few months after D-day, I did.

My wife even tried to convince me, that it’s perfectly normal to love more people to justify herself and prove to me that she never stopped loving me during the affair. She gave me a free pass to try for myself, because “she wanted me to experience these confusing feelings while still loving your spouse”.
She also wanted to feel what it was like to know that I was dating others, would she feel jealous or would she not care? – it would be a way to decide if we had a future together, she said, while considering open marriage, so she could continue seeing her AP.

So I started dating (makes me a madhatter?), I thought that since my wife had changed the rules, I had to learn to play by the new rule set. What I found out was that I had no problem at all finding other women who wanted to date me, also a lot who told me to call when I was single again.

From that day, my wife has never mentioned anything about an open marriage.

I know from what I have read above that you’ll flame me, and go ahead, have your shot, but I’m actually happy that I did it, and I’ll tell you why. It rebuild my confidence and sense of worth. And my wife suddenly became aware of the fact that she might lose me, something she never thought about – she took me for granted before and during her affair. She’s aware of that fact today and it has been an important factor in her decision to change.

I don’t regret it.

My story may not apply to OP, but I could see myself in your BS' beaviour, flip-flopping between staying, leaving, redefining rules etc.



BS (me): 47
WS: 44
Together for 27 years...
2 kids, 12 and 9
DD: april 2011, 9 months PA

Posts: 15 | Registered: Jun 2012
Deeply Scared
Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 10:32 AM, June 14th (Friday)

cpacan...

I know from what I have read above that you’ll flame me, and go ahead, have your shot, but I’m actually happy that I did it,

We do not encourage flaming and attacking, please do not invite a fight.

Thank you.


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 196464 | Registered: May 2002
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 10:43 AM, June 14th (Friday)

To the original question. I'm sure the impulse is there. However, I question the success rate of R when it is based on external validation.

What's missing?

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2549 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
hardlessons
Member
Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 11:26 AM, June 14th (Friday)

Alyssamd24,

it doesn't matter what is normal, acceptable, whether it is due to being a BS/WS/ASS. Wrong behavior is wrong because it is wrong. Just because he is a BS doesn't mean he can JUSTIFY it, well shit that wouldn't be acceptable would it?

There is no time like the present to set up boundaries for yourself. You don't have to accept his behavior just like he doesn't have to accept yours.


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 880 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
Alyssamd24
Member
Member # 39005
Default  Posted: 11:33 AM, June 14th (Friday)

Yes i was lying about NC with AP....but at this point I am not...it took me much longer to go NC than it should have and I regret that. But I have now come to my senses and am no longer lying.


"I need to be redeemed to the one I've sinned against because he's all I ever knew of love"

Posts: 737 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Massachusetts
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 2:41 PM, June 14th (Friday)

It rebuild my confidence and sense of worth.

How? I'm not asking to be a smart ass or bitchy, I'm honestly wondering. How did getting women that had no issue with the fact you were linked to another rebuild your confidence and sense of worth? It's actually the completely contradictory message. "I don't give a shit about your situation or how it may scream dysfunction...I don't give a shit about you. Just how you make me feel". Same thing most OP's feel about WS's.

I posted this in my other post but firmly believe. Two broken people just bleed together. That's it. I did the exact same thing you did. It about destroyed me.

I'll challenge you (not flaming). If you're truly ok with what your choices are how exactly can you have issues with hers? The fact they were hidden? Is that the only piece that's the issue?


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
heartache101
Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 3:06 PM, June 14th (Friday)

I truly believe a marraige can not be fixed if you are not living in the same household! Move back HOME!
Even if you sleep in the spare room move back home.

But only if you are done with the AP. Of course.

I hope you are working on you and why you have done such a thing to your life and your family. Dig deep and work hard an know matter what be truthful.

Good luck.


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3185 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
cpacan
New Member
Member # 35883
Default  Posted: 3:19 PM, June 14th (Friday)


How? I'm not asking to be a smart ass or bitchy, I'm honestly wondering. How did getting women that had no issue with the fact you were linked to another rebuild your confidence and sense of worth? It's actually the completely contradictory message. "I don't give a shit about your situation or how it may scream dysfunction...I don't give a shit about you. Just how you make me feel". Same thing most OP's feel about WS's.

I posted this in my other post but firmly believe. Two broken people just bleed together. That's it. I did the exact same thing you did. It about destroyed me.

I'll challenge you (not flaming). If you're truly ok with what your choices are how exactly can you have issues with hers? The fact they were hidden? Is that the only piece that's the issue?


I'll try and see if I answer it in a meaningfull way, to my self at least.

I don't know why you get the impression that it was broken women I dated? There was absolutely nothing hidden and no betrayed people. I met quite a few on dating sites who were looking for a NSA-relationship - nothing complicated - I was surprised myself because I didn't think I would find any.

Also remember that my self-esteem was below the panels and it didn't take much to improve. Before this I didn't think I was good enough for anybody, now I realized that I could find another woman even if my marriage were over.

I admit that the lack of self worth were my issue at the time and probably un-knowingly several years before that. I don't have that problem anymore - to that degree anyway (not just because of this).

As for the second question. I know it probably screams double standard or hypocrate to some of you, I've thought about it myself.

In hindsight, what have damaged our relationship the most, isn't the the fact that she had sex with another man for a periode of nine months, it was the betrayal and especially the lies and cover up activities in the aftermath. It's just a relationship killer. I finally reached a point where I had to tell her, that if she told me one more lie, and I don't care how small, I would and still will help her pack her bags and say goodbye within five minutes.

Had she talked with me about her desires, things would have been different. I would probably initially have been surprised and maybe a bit disappointed in not being enough for her, but wwe could have talked it out and reached some kind of agreement, we have subsequently talked about swinging etc.

But betrayal, I hate it. And I wouldn't have dated without her consent.


BS (me): 47
WS: 44
Together for 27 years...
2 kids, 12 and 9
DD: april 2011, 9 months PA

Posts: 15 | Registered: Jun 2012
Alyssamd24
Member
Member # 39005
Default  Posted: 4:01 PM, June 14th (Friday)

Thank you heartache. I agree that you need to be in the same home in order to fix things. ...at this point though BH says I may not move back home...I have asked many times and feel like since I am the one who screwed up I need to respect his wishes.
I am most definitely done with the AP....I wish it hadn't taken me as long as it did to go NC with him but I fell into the fog hard.
I am in IC now and am starting to learn what my issues are so I can hopefully fix them and move on.


"I need to be redeemed to the one I've sinned against because he's all I ever knew of love"

Posts: 737 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Massachusetts
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 4:19 PM, June 14th (Friday)


I don't know why you get the impression that it was broken women I dated? There was absolutely nothing hidden and no betrayed people. I met quite a few on dating sites who were looking for a NSA-relationship - nothing complicated - I was surprised myself because I didn't think I would find any.

How I got that impression? Did you not tell them you were still married? You seriously didn't think you'd find any? Really? Who do you think people cheat with? Healthy well adjusted self aware people? In case you haven't seen, finding someone ain't hard and it sure as shit doesn't mean "you're" a great catch.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
nofool4u
Member
Member # 38509
Default  Posted: 4:28 PM, June 14th (Friday)

Nofool4u I would like to know how does her having an A means that she has lost the right to have a voice when things he's doing bother or raise red flags?

Unagie. She has the right to voice whatever she likes. So me saying losing the "right" is the wrong choice of words.

However, it won't bode well for someone that has cheated to then complain about being cheated on.

But I digress on that. If they are to reconcile, then his behavior needs to stop, with the exception of working on himself and his self esteem. The dating someone else thing needs to stop.

[This message edited by nofool4u at 4:38 PM, June 14th (Friday)]


Me - fBS

Posts: 210 | Registered: Feb 2013
nofool4u
Member
Member # 38509
Default  Posted: 4:30 PM, June 14th (Friday)

Nah, it's not fucking "normal." My BH didn't do this. Neither did many others. It's certainly not the path to R

As a fBS, I can tell you.....it is normal. Not to the extreme he is taking it no. But for the first part of her post, it is normal for a BS to feel inadequate, then all of a sudden want to change their appearance, look better and feel better about themselves. As far as the rest of what she is talking about, no, not normal.


Me - fBS

Posts: 210 | Registered: Feb 2013
nofool4u
Member
Member # 38509
Default  Posted: 4:32 PM, June 14th (Friday)

Please note that none of the WS's in here are your WS, your projection isn't necessary.

I'm not projecting anything. She is wanting to know if this is normal behavior from a BS. And as a fBS, I'm stating that it is with exception to the extremes he is taking it.
Nowhere did I put my former WS in the mix. As a fBS I can tell you I went through this and immediately started working on myself, as she stated he did by wearing contacts and working out.

[This message edited by nofool4u at 4:34 PM, June 14th (Friday)]


Me - fBS

Posts: 210 | Registered: Feb 2013
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 4:43 PM, June 14th (Friday)

However, it won't bode well for someone that has cheated to then complain about being cheated on.

It won't? For whom? Actually, it won't "bode well" to not find objection to being cheated on.

I can imagine more than just a couple waywards throwing confetti and pounding shots. "Yeah? You did? GREAT. So you can now STFU finally and swallow all those questions. We're good. Carry on"

Some of you seem to feel that if anyone sees issues with his behavior it's green lighting hers. You don't see that if you truly believe there is no excuse for an affair or affair type behavior...none, then it means just that...no excuse.

Find me a wayward that can't come up with an absolutely compelling excuse. I see the mind fucks that many of the men endure on a repeated basis in the betrayed men's thread.

Each excuse another cut. Each reason another lash. Bet some of the wives think that is complete truth. Believe it for this EXACT reason. If "he" (or she, obviously) hadn't done xyz I NEVER would have done that.

Funny thing, some just love pointing their WS's this direction to be pinata'd a bit by some WS veterans to hopefully get some sense knocked into them yet pop smoke if they get called on some of their own shady shit.

We don't discriminate here. If it's crap, we smell it. From miles.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
Ascendant
Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 4:44 PM, June 14th (Friday)

I think the problem (to me, anyway) is one of credibility. The wayward person doesn''t have a leg to stand on as far as giving out boundary advice/edicts...not only that, but they were super OK with double standards until relatively recently. So while I agree he''s in the wrong with his actions, to expect a BS to hear a boundary lecture from a recent WS is completely unrealistic.


"The thing that always seems to be shocking to wayward wives is the simple fact that the man you choose to reconcile with is not the same man you cheated on." - a friend.

Posts: 1942 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
nofool4u
Member
Member # 38509
Default  Posted: 4:51 PM, June 14th (Friday)

It won't? For whom?

Either one of them now.



I can imagine more than just a couple waywards throwing confetti and pounding shots. "Yeah? You did? GREAT. So you can now STFU finally and swallow all those questions. We're good. Carry on"

Some of you seem to feel that if anyone sees issues with his behavior it's green lighting hers. You don't see that if you truly believe there is no excuse for an affair or affair type behavior...none, then it means just that...no excuse.

Which is why I said I digress and that he needs to stop messing around with this other woman if they are thinking about reconciliation.


Me - fBS

Posts: 210 | Registered: Feb 2013
nofool4u
Member
Member # 38509
Default  Posted: 4:52 PM, June 14th (Friday)

I think the problem (to me, anyway) is one of credibility. The wayward person doesn't have a leg to stand on as far as giving out boundary advice/edicts...not only that, but they were super OK with double standards until relatively recently. So while I agree he's in the wrong with his actions, to expect a BS to hear a boundary lecture from a recent WS is completely unrealistic.

Yes, that is pretty much the point.

But now if they are to work on things, they both need to talk about boundaries, in a non-lecturing way. Neither of them can take the high ground to demand anything. It needs to be discussed.


Me - fBS

Posts: 210 | Registered: Feb 2013
cpacan
New Member
Member # 35883
Default  Posted: 4:57 PM, June 14th (Friday)

How I got that impression? Did you not tell them you were still married? You seriously didn't think you'd find any? Really? Who do you think people cheat with? Healthy well adjusted self aware people? In case you haven't seen, finding someone ain't hard and it sure as shit doesn't mean "you're" a great catch.

No, I haven't seen, I have been concentrating all my attention and energy on my marriage partner for 27 years. But thanks for letting me know and thanks for the label.

I find it ironic that I was the one to get a warning earlier on.

If this is what "BS's responses welcome" means, I obviously don't blend in here.


BS (me): 47
WS: 44
Together for 27 years...
2 kids, 12 and 9
DD: april 2011, 9 months PA

Posts: 15 | Registered: Jun 2012
Deeply Scared
Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 4:59 PM, June 14th (Friday)

cpacan


I find it ironic that I was the one to get a warning earlier on.

You got a warning because you invited flaming and fighting. We don't operate like that here on this entire site.


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 196464 | Registered: May 2002
nofool4u
Member
Member # 38509
Default  Posted: 5:16 PM, June 14th (Friday)

cpacan,

Yes, do not invite flaming. Its against the TOS.

If OP is wanting input from BS's who more than likely know what is going through her husband's mind, then just state your opinion as a BS and you should be fine.


Me - fBS

Posts: 210 | Registered: Feb 2013
Unagie
Member
Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 5:22 PM, June 14th (Friday)

However, it won't bode well for someone that has cheated to then complain about being cheated on.

Yea it's a little personal I know but I'm a madhatter. He cheated and lied to me. I know it was emotional but will probably never know if it was physical though I suspected such. You know what it hurt, it felt like a knife cutting into what was left of me after my actions had already torn me apart. I wanted to die, I am being honest. It took awhile for me to function again. The fact that I cheated first does not mean I could not say anything to him when he cheated on me. Not when he screamed in my face about having honesty and integrity. Not when he told me he was the only good guy left. Not when he now became exactly what he abhorred.

I cannot believe that this statement even comes forth. The cheater has to now stuff it down or fear saying something because it won't bode well for them? Why? Because they cheated so now they should just suck it up and expect the behavior as justifiable? Nobody cheating can be justified. The act is wrong no matter who it happens to.

[This message edited by Unagie at 5:23 PM, June 14th (Friday)]


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

Do not let others be your reference for who you see in the mirror.

Stop allowing people to hurt you, because you don't love you enough to walk away.


Posts: 2637 | Registered: Oct 2012
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 5:45 PM, June 14th (Friday)

I think the problem (to me, anyway) is one of credibility. The wayward person doesn't have a leg to stand on as far as giving out boundary advice/edicts...not only that, but they were super OK with double standards until relatively recently. So while I agree he's in the wrong with his actions, to expect a BS to hear a boundary lecture from a recent WS is completely unrealistic.

I completely agree. Boundary lectures are actually boundary violations

Boundaries aren't "lectured". They're adhered to. It's really just that. You don't put them on tee shirts and give finger pointing presentations.

You simply state what you will and won't accept and let go of the response.

It would honestly reassure me to see my WS setting boundaries for themselves and other's. I wouldn't even consider it if they didn't. My ex cheated before we got married. I married him anyway. I never brought it up, never even thought about it, honestly.

Think my boundaries might have been a bit fucked? I justified it because he was honest. Yeah, about that one

When you come from a rather brutal childhood somethings seem pretty tolerable by comparison. That survival instinct can be a real bitch...along with the holder (me).

When I post calling out behavior that's not quite right it's for one reason only. I don't want anyone else to go through the pain I did. My betrayal of myself about killed me. I've called it soul suicide and it was...for me.

If "you" are ok with it from "yourself" then party on Wayne. It is true that waywards don't make sympathetic "victims", at least to some of us waywards. Self pity is sooooooo last season. Blech.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
HardenMyHeart
Member
Member # 15902
Default  Posted: 9:02 PM, June 14th (Friday)

Start t/j
Its against the TOS

Sorry for the threadjack. What does TOS mean?
End t/j


Me: BH, Her: FWW - Long Term EA/PA
d-day: June 25, 2007
Married 29 years, Happily Reconciled

Posts: 5622 | Registered: Aug 2007
Deeply Scared
Administrator
Member # 2
Default  Posted: 9:28 PM, June 14th (Friday)

Sorry for the threadjack. What does TOS mean?

TOS = Terms of Service


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 196464 | Registered: May 2002
heartbroken0903
Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 9:33 PM, June 14th (Friday)

I absolutely set boundaries and have expectations for my relationship. That is my job as a human being...nothing to do with WS status.

Oddly enough, my XH likes the new me a lot more than the old me who had no boundaries or expectations, for myself OR others. *shrug* Hmmm. Must be doing something right.


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciling after divorce

"Someday you'll look back on all these days
And all this pain is gonna be invisible." - Hunter Hayes, "Invisible"


Posts: 2077 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
Trying33
Member
Member # 38815
Default  Posted: 1:22 AM, June 15th (Saturday)

Alyssa,
At this point the most useful thing for you would be to slightly insist that you move home. You don't have to share a bed but at least be in the same home for any chance of R.

Secondly, after asking him several times for R, I feel he now owes you a commitment to yay or nay.

Either way is his choice and you will have to respect it but it can't be a limbo situation as that's not fair on your daughter. At some point in time he needs to decide whether he wants to try an R the marriage or not.

As for is his behaviour normal or not? The Boston thing screams it was pre-planned. Having her over for dinner with the kids there doesn't sound too bad as may have been just to pass time ALTHOUGH this woman is going to be his shoulder to cry on and I wouldn't be surprised if it develops into an EA if it hasn't already.

Just a thought, if an EA is inappropriate attachment and defined as "A relationship between a person and someone other than (their) spouse (or lover) that has an impact on the level of intimacy, emotional distance and overall dynamic balance in the marriage. The role of an affair is to create emotional distance in the marriage."

Then in a situation like Alyssa's where there is already emotional distance etc would this be classed as an EA or an inappropriate friendship?

I know, deep down, it doesn't matter what label we give it. It's not helping anyone move forward.


Posts: 361 | Registered: Mar 2013
nofool4u
Member
Member # 38509
Default  Posted: 10:31 AM, June 17th (Monday)

I cannot believe that this statement even comes forth. The cheater has to now stuff it down or fear saying something because it won't bode well for them? Why? Because they cheated so now they should just suck it up and expect the behavior as justifiable? Nobody cheating can be justified. The act is wrong no matter who it happens to.

Unagie, I quite agree. Which is why i posted this in response to someone else

But now if they are to work on things, they both need to talk about boundaries, in a non-lecturing way. Neither of them can take the high ground to demand anything. It needs to be discussed.

In other words, no complaining about each other cheating. They both did it, so no high roads, no lecturing. If they are going to work on the marriage, sit down and discuss it. No one is better than the other. Fix the problem, or leave if they simply want to fixate on who cheated first, worse, etc.

[This message edited by nofool4u at 10:32 AM, June 17th (Monday)]


Me - fBS

Posts: 210 | Registered: Feb 2013
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 10:34 AM, June 17th (Monday)

In other words, no complaining about each other cheating

What exactly do you mean by complaining? Does this include never talking about your hurt or how you feel about what happened?


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4506 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
nofool4u
Member
Member # 38509
Default  Posted: 10:41 AM, June 17th (Monday)

What exactly do you mean by complaining?

Bickering back and forth, "well you did this" "well you did that"


Does this include never talking about your hurt or how you feel about what happened?

Not at all. Talking about the hurt isn't fixating on who did what when and worse.

Talking about the pain is absolutely understandable. But when 2 people have cheated and decide to reconcile, then the bickering about whose cheating was worse has no place.


Me - fBS

Posts: 210 | Registered: Feb 2013
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 10:52 AM, June 17th (Monday)

I totally agree with that. The problem often arises in madhatter situations when one partner is remorseful and totally understands what they have done and the other one does not. They just want to stand and point the finger at what the other has done and blame them.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4506 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
nofool4u
Member
Member # 38509
Default  Posted: 10:58 AM, June 17th (Monday)

Precisely. I completely agree.


Me - fBS

Posts: 210 | Registered: Feb 2013
lost_in_toronto
Member
Member # 25395
Default  Posted: 11:17 AM, June 17th (Monday)

Neither of us have posted anything on fb about our separation, but he has had many postsr about hanging out with female coworkers and even posted a pic of him, our dd, a female coworker and her two children in Boston....he had taken Our dd to Boston for the day and just happened to run into the coworker and her children.

I agree with UO and others that his behaviour is destructive and wayward. Also - not sure if anyone else has said it, but I doubt that this was a coincidence, and it would make me very angry that pictures of this were on FB. Whatever else is going on here (EA, PA) this is surely feeding the coworker OW's fantasy of a happy new family.

((alyssa))

[This message edited by lost_in_toronto at 11:18 AM, June 17th (Monday)]


Me: BS/39
Him: WS/37
DDay: August 23, 2009
Together 14 years.
Reconciled.

Posts: 1652 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: not toronto anymore
thegooddokta
Member
Member # 35641
Default  Posted: 2:37 PM, June 17th (Monday)

I haven't posted in a very long time, but this thread resonated with me. After my A, my BS' reaction was not just one RA, but many. In my face....along with lying to me about it. Full-blown WS behavior. All the while demanding full transparency from me. It was hard for me to be so vulnerable when he was continuing his A. It was hard for me to do the work of R by myself. Nearly impossible to do what I needed for the marriage while he was being destructive. His justification was "you did it first". We didn't make it. Our divorce will be final next week. We *might* have had a chance if he chose different coping mechanisms and an environment of recovery was created. Your BS' behavior does not sound like someone who is leaning toward R, and if he is, he's not allowing a foundation of trust and open communication to form.

When my BS was having his RAs he kept saying he was unsure if he wanted to R, that maybe my A was a deal breaker. The reality is, he never got to find out what we were capable of. Remember, he is not the only one in your relationship that has a decision to make. If he wants to R with you, than he will need to act like someone who values his marriage. Treating you as a valuable person, and treating himself as one too, is at the core of healing. I hope you guys can find your way...living in limbo is awful. ((Hugs)).


Me- BW 43
Him- WH 35
1stDday Dday 4-19-12
Married 9 yrs
Divorce sched for June 2013
2 kids 5 & 8

W/H-currently has a new girlfriend. We are still living in same house.


Posts: 118 | Registered: May 2012 | From: CT
Unagie
Member
Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 2:48 PM, June 17th (Monday)

They just want to stand and point the finger at what the other has done and blame them.

Yes that's where I am and it tears me apart inside. It tears me apart that I think he's still lying. Nofool I apologize if I vented a bit on your posts but they hit a sore spot with me.


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

Do not let others be your reference for who you see in the mirror.

Stop allowing people to hurt you, because you don't love you enough to walk away.


Posts: 2637 | Registered: Oct 2012
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 3:03 PM, June 17th (Monday)

Full-blown WS behavior

EXACTLY. And this is where my alarm bells start going off. It's the whole chicken egg discussion. I have a little trouble buying into the whole, "I would NEVER have even considered it but now that it's happened I'm going to fuck everything and everyone because I'm in so much pain"

Riiiiigggghhhhhhhtttttt! I'm guessing that if the light was shown on some previous actions and choices you might just find that the identified wayward wasn't the only partaker.

My situation speaks to that, sadly. My ex cheated throughout our entire relationship. Had he been a member here he could have, if he acknowledge my affair as an affair which I suspect he didn't because of his ego, hung out and traded stories quite prolifically in the BM thread branding me with the scarlet letter and himself as wracked with pain (not saying he wouldn't have been). Any transgressions made after could be "blamed" my choices being the nexus and his self esteem being horribly boo boo owied by such an evil unremorseful wayward wife (which I resembled quite nicely when I joined...even now, according to some )

YET, he'd been a card carrying member from the get go. That's where the whole "normal" sticks in my craw (what the hell is a craw to begin with or am I bastardizing the term). His behavior would have absolutely been "normal" because he was a wayward to begin with.

Again, you can only establish healthy boundaries about what you will and won't tolerate and stick to them letting go of controlling the outcome. Quid pro quo doesn't get you to health. Just makes you better at score keeping.

[This message edited by uncertainone at 3:04 PM, June 17th (Monday)]


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 3:12 PM, June 17th (Monday)

Not at all. Talking about the hurt isn't fixating on who did what when and worse.

It's not? How do you talk about the hurt without discussing the actions and the person perpetrating those actions?

How is that approach even possible with infidelity? If it were you could seperate the actions from the person so threads like "I no longer see my wife/husband the same way" would be rare, I'd imagine.

I think that being careless with someone forgetting birthday or not being sympathetic to struggles maybe, if the desire to stay married is strong, could fall in this category but does not the actions and choices of cheating redefine the cheater and bring other transgressions into a much different light and focus?

Or....do I need to back away from the coffee?


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
Topic Posts: 94