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User Topic: Nowhere Else To Turn
Snowback
New Member
Member # 39533
Default  Posted: 12:23 AM, June 13th (Thursday)

Hi,

I am new to any message board. I just felt that there was nowhere else to turn.

This is my story...

I have been married 11 years. I have always viewed my marriage as the perfect marriage. My wife is always referred glowingly, especially by my parents.

I had found out three weeks ago that she was involved with another man for 422 days. She had stopped two months prior to my dday.
The OM actually came in contact into my household, because I felt bad for him that he wasn't doing too well in business. I offered him to do work in my new house, so I can help him get back on his feet.

For some odd reason, I "suspected" something was off between my wife and the OM. I even used to jokingly refer to him, to my wife, as "Your lover". She used to roll her eyes, and I say, "I would never do that". She always made me feel terrible that I even thought that.

When she finally told me that there was inappropriate contact, she significantly downgraded the severity of it. She promised me that was all that happened. A couple of days passed, and her story didn't make sense. I confronted her again, and she admitted that she did in fact have sex, but only five times. No matter my suspicions, I felt a dagger repeatedly go through me. She told me it ended a year earlier, and she didn't have any feelings for him, good or bad. A couple of days later, more holes were in her story, and I confronted her. She made me feel like how dare I not believe her. I kept pushing some of the holes, and she finally caved, by admitting that she was seeing him for 14 months.

I am unable to shake this feelings of betrayal. First off, she has never expressed remorse. When I told her that she never expressed remorse, she says that "You know that I do, and plus, you would never believe it anyways." I also feel extremely hurt that we had a big celebration for our 10th anniversary, as well as a couple additional vacations, where she had told me how deeply she loved me, and I just view it as a fraud. She even admitted that for a few week period, she considered leaving me. She said that I didn't do anything to deserve being left for. I just thought about how she would have informed me that she was to leave me, without any clue why.
She had told me, that the OM would tell my wife that I am such a good guy, but he would say, "I feel bad for what I am doing to him, but I want what I want." I know that his wife also suspected that he was having an affair with my wife. I contemplated telling her, but I live in a suburban community, and I know that by doing that, it will cause a great stumbling block to recovering in my marriage.

I apologize for the lengthy post, but I honestly don't know how I could go on. Initially I felt suicidal, and I have so many triggers. There isn't a solid moment that I don't think about it to some degree. I ask my wife additional questions at some point everyday. Another big problem, my oldest child, 9 year old, has started acting hysterical anytime that my wife or myself are not in her presence. She told us today, that something is bothering her since the dday.

Thank you


Posts: 7 | Registered: Jun 2013
Jrazz
Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 12:39 AM, June 13th (Thursday)

Welcome to SI, Snowback. I'm so sorry that you find yourself here, but you've come to a great place for support.

Things are really rough in the beginning. The rollercoaster of emotions is nuts, but it slows as time progresses.

If you haven't already, please check out the healing Library in the yellow box in the upper left corner of the screen. It's full of a lot of information on how to get through things now, and in the months to come.

I contemplated telling her, but I live in a suburban community, and I know that by doing that, it will cause a great stumbling block to recovering in my marriage.

I know that it's hard enough to wrap your brain around what this has done to your life, and your family - but you have a moral obligation to let her know. You'll find as you process what's happened that truth and integrity are the building blocks for a healthy existence. She deserves to know that she is being betrayed.

You have to understand that telling the OBS (Other Betrayed Spouse) is not the actual stumbling block - your WW's (Wayward Wife) behavior and reaction to everything is what will determine whether your marriage can recover from this.

It's not your job to keep her happy with you so she won't leave. That's going to make things harder, more hurtful, and it's degrading. She should be showing you remorse, respect, and transparency in an effort to earn your forgiveness at the LEAST. If you want to be in a marriage with a loving partner, she should be doing everything she can to help you heal and to prove her trustworthiness, not being glib and a brat and making excuses for why she hasn't been devastated by the ramifications of her selfishness.

It's time to take a long, hard look at what you feel draws you to her. I remember being in the begging/bargaining stage only briefly in the beginning.... then, when I got my wits somewhat collected, I took my daughter and moved to my dad's while my FWH sat home alone and had a real opportunity to assess the damage he had done.

If she isn't showing remorse, humility, kindness.. ANYTHING... you need to close off your emotion and time to her and start protecting yourself from months/years of torture as you try to fix something with both hands tied behind your back.

Sending you big hugs. We're all here for you.

(((Snowback)))


If you can't learn to enjoy your life when you have problems, you may never enjoy it because we'll always have problems. - Joyce Meyer

Posts: 16952 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
Snowback
New Member
Member # 39533
Default  Posted: 1:11 AM, June 13th (Thursday)

Thank you for your support and kind words.

The sick thing that bothers me, is that I love her. I also hate her. I always held her in the highest regard, and that is why I feel it is tougher to deal with, because I fell from such a high level.

I feel like a fool that I didn't figure it out for 14 months. I suspected it, but I never ever really believed that she was capable of the affair. I always viewed myself as astute, but my eyes were clearly shut.

The funny thing is, she know one or two women that have outwardly asked me to have sex with me, and she knows that I always said that I can never do that to her. I am a deeply loyal person, and I always expected the same.

She also always considered herself a good person. I had told her a good person can never do what she did. She said, that I can't erase the first 9+ years that she was good. I can never look at her the same way.

I initially lit all my wedding pictures/albums on fire in a fire pit, as well as some clothes she had got me.
That is so out of character for me. I feel like I died. I am waiting to be woken up from this nightmare.

The worst part is, I know I will never get an answer why. I know in some instances, the couple is going trough a rocky period. That wasn't the case here. We truly were able to speak to each other about anything. Even recently, we were able to speak for two hours. I always felt that there were no secrets.

I have not spoken to anyone about the affair other then my wife, her parents (I know it seems weird, but I am/was very close to them. I now see that no matter what, I am clearly not their child.), and the therapist that we started seeing. I have not had one person that I have told. This is mainly because I am embarrassed, and I am scared that my friends, as good intentioned that they are, they may tell someone else. Like I said, I live in a small community; a lot of gossip. I don't think that I can handle that now, but I know it isn't healthy to keep it inside.

At the beginning, I wanted to approach the OM. I found out that my wife paid him close to $12,000 for a job that was less then half. I think my wife was paying him, because she feared that he will inform me.

Thank you once again. This seems the only place that I can vent.


Posts: 7 | Registered: Jun 2013
hatefulnow
Member
Member # 35603
Default  Posted: 1:20 AM, June 13th (Thursday)

I feel your pain. I'm a psychologist but this is not my area of expertise, although I'm getting pretty good at it. But I will say that it is important to tell OM BS. She deserves to know. If the shoe were on the other foot you'd want her to tell you.

I believe the best way to end affairs and more importantly the affair mind set is to get the participants to want to change. After 14 months your wife probably developed feel gs for this POSOM (piece of shit other man). To have her feel remorse and help you heal I know of no better way than to have POSOM throw her under the bus. And he will to save his own ass with his wife. This tends to have the effect of a bucket of ice water thrown on her. She wil
See him and their 'relationship' for the truth of what they are: sick, twisted and devoid of any true value. So I strongly ask you to consider telling her.

As for yourself, take care of you. Rest, food, lots of water, etc. Avoid alcohol if possible. Take it from someone who knows, it won't help in the long run. Read the healing library which is in the yellow box to the upper left. Lots of good info in there.

I can't express in words how sorry I am for this happening to you, but please realize you've found a safe place. People here will help you as much as they are able. Good luck!


Posts: 122 | Registered: May 2012
Snowback
New Member
Member # 39533
Default  Posted: 1:45 AM, June 13th (Thursday)

My affair is no longer ongoing.

So the only benefit, I feel, in telling her is to pay back the OM.

I spoke to my therapist, that I started seeing after the dday, about being conflicted that I wish that someone would have told me about it. My therapist told me that she doesn't think it would be a good idea. She said, if you would still be going on, then I should, but since it isn't, there is no benefit. She said, it would just be more difficult for me to work through this with my wife.

I was even going to send an anonymous letter to her, saying that her husband was having an affair, but I know it would come back to my marriage, because she suspected her POSWH was busy with my wife.

What sickens me, that I always gave her complete freedom. She would be out very late many nights "working", while I would be home doing homework with my kids.

She always said that she was a good mother. She is a very caring mother. She always took them to fun places.

She was truly living two lives.

Thank you


Posts: 7 | Registered: Jun 2013
stronger08
Member
Member # 16953
Default  Posted: 3:26 AM, June 13th (Thursday)

Welcome brother. Sadly your story is just like the rest of us. You will find that affairs oddly pretty much follow the same script. From denial to minimizing etc. My advice right now is to not make any rash decisions due to your emotional state. And that includes wanting to R. Take time to digest what has happened. Then make an informed decision as to how you want to proceed. I'd also like to caution you that the whole truth is rarely uncovered. And chances are there is much more to the story then you already know. The fact is that people who cheat lie very well. Right to your face and swearing on anything they find holy. They will lie till they cant lie anymore. Then they will minimize and go into spin control mode. Some will also try and manipulate you with anger and threats of leaving you. Don't fall into that trap. It is imperative that you hold your ground and stand tough and tall. Any sign of weakness will be taken advantage of. This most likely will become a power struggle to see who has the most fortitude.

Do not make any threats you are not ready to back up with action. Do not allow her to place blame for this A on you in any way, shape or form. If there is any chance of R she must own what she has done. And before any of that happens she must show remorse. Without remorse you can not R. Period end of story. You may also find that in the upcoming weeks/months that you can not forget or forgive. You might want a D and there is nothing wrong with that either. She needs to understand that there are consequences to ones actions. And surely she knew prior to engaging in the A that a D from you was possible. She took that risk anyway. As I said take time to figure out what it is you want to do.

Its very important that you take care of yourself now. Therapy is good and don't be afraid to seek comfort and help from friends and family. This is her shame, not yours. Do not carry her burden. I personally informed my employers as my work suffered greatly. Infidelity if let unattended can destroy lives, careers and families. If you find you can not cope seek medical help. Meds can be a life saver in these situations. There is nothing wrong with using them as needed. In fact I suggest you consider them. They honestly saved my life. And I was a tough businessman who never wore my heart on my sleeve. Infidelity brought me to my knees. Also get yourself tested for STD's ASAP. Do not sleep with her unprotected. She will claim she used protection each and every time. But that will be a lie as well. I could go on and on here. But what I and the others have said is enough for now. Please keep posting and reading. This site is a godsend. We all have been in your shoes.


You cant eat soup with chopsticks.

Posts: 5603 | Registered: Nov 2007
Laura28
Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 4:04 AM, June 13th (Thursday)

Hi Snowback

You have received excellent advice. The members here have seen it all. There is so much collective wisdom.

I would like you take particular note of stronger08. he truly is a veteran who knows what he is talking about.

As for your therapist....well honey I'd get a new one. Like everything there are good and bad, experienced and inexperienced. Telling the OBS is hard but a necessary path to take.

AS for truth? Can I reiterate what others have said. Sadly for many what we first get is the tip of the iceberg. Very few get the whole story up front. Often the only way we get the rest is by digging for it ourselves. In my case FWH lied about it all. It took me 3 weeks to find out he had been screwing OWs for at least 16 years. He repeatedly denied until I produced proof.

The wayward mindset is hard to fathom There is a whole other world out there that we faithful people do not understand.

HUGS

Laura


Married 32yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 60yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA 16+ years).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2744 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
doctor49
Member
Member # 15847
Default  Posted: 4:23 AM, June 13th (Thursday)

Sorry that you're here.

You'll find much good advice here. And be advised that it will take you some time to decide what you want to do. That's true but there are some 'next' things you might consider.

Perhaps the first is to establish what's what. Is the A really over? If your WW says it is, why would you believe her?

Informing the OBS increases that probability. And as you say, as an BS you'd have liked to have known. Chances are the OBS is no different.

Get legal advice about your situation. It doesn't commit you to a particular course of action but informs your thinking. Don't advertise it.

Where next also depends on where your WW is at and where that fits with you. What does she think happens from here? That you'll forget (you won't), forgive (you might), that you won't walk away?

Decide what you need from her to continue your M. Tell her.

Sometimes to keep things you need to be prepared to let them go. This might be such a time.

Be well.


Posts: 243 | Registered: Aug 2007
JH52
New Member
Member # 10690
Default  Posted: 7:21 AM, June 13th (Thursday)

HI SB:

Sorry you are going through this.

How do you know the affair has ended ?? If your wife told you this -- please remember that she lied to you for 14 months to be with OM. I agree with the others -- expose the afair to OM's wife at least and maybe all your friends and your family as well. Having an affair has to have consequences -- and right now your wife seems to have no remorse and getting off very easy for her affair - IMO.

Good luck.


Posts: 30 | Registered: May 2006 | From: jh52
Snowback
New Member
Member # 39533
Default  Posted: 8:01 AM, June 13th (Thursday)

Thank you all for your support.

My wife never put blame on me. She actually corrected our therapist when she tried asking what she felt led her to seek an outside relationship. She just apologized once, saying "I'm sorry". The other times that I confronted her about her lack of remorse, she just says, "You know I do, I just know that you will never believe me."

What bothered me, right after dday, is that she said that she has zero feelings for him. Not good, or bad. I asked her, if she has regret, how can she not feel some type of anger towards him. I have spoken to her many hours about the OM. She told me what she felt, especially the first half of her A, and I pointed out to her that he was just playing her. (Not to say that doesn't get her off the hook at all for her role.) She had spent $722.19 in gifts for him, and he offered nothing in return.

I fully understand why you would all suggest that she is probably still lying, but I actually do believe that it is over.

Firstly, she agreed to quit her job. Her "work" allowed her to be out at odd hours.
Secondly, ( she has agreed after the "final" truth, to write


Posts: 7 | Registered: Jun 2013
Snowback
New Member
Member # 39533
Default  Posted: 8:08 AM, June 13th (Thursday)

Sorry, I accidentally pushed submit.

Secondly, (I know I am a masochist) I had her write out every single time she met him, both when she had tbe EA and also the times that she had sex, plus the locations. I know most people would think what is wrong with me, to want to know details. I just felt that I need the TRUTH. The reason why I believe her now, is because she didn't sugarcoat it. She gave me an extremely number for how many times for her EMA. So she really has nothing else to admit to.

She has been home now all the time. In the past, she was always running.

Thank you again


Posts: 7 | Registered: Jun 2013
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 4:54 AM, June 14th (Friday)

Sorry that you are here, Snowback.

As for the wanting to know of the details---you will soon see that this is a very normal response. Many here need to know EVERY SINGLE DETAIL, while others do not or can not handle that much information.

The bottom line, regretfully, is that you are in for a long journey that you did not sign up for. While ultimately you will emerge from this a strong person again, know that (1) it takes time, and (2) it will be with or without your wife.

It is #2 that is often hard to accept.

Stronger08 mentioned no remorse=no reconciliation. That is absolute fact. The two of you may coexist, but you will never have the emotional intimacy/connection that you had in your earlier years. And what you will start to learn...and accept...as time goes on, is that you can't make her do anything that she doesn't want to do. She controls her own destiny, and no matter how much you love her, you can't change her. Please take that as gospel.

But you do control yourself.

As devastated and out of control as you may feel right now, you do control your trajectory from here. Yes, it sucks beyond imagination that you were even put in this situation, but your healing is in your hands right now.

The first thing that you must teach yourself, is that you have to let go of any outcome. You can't "fight for your marriage" and expect any positive results if it is one-sided. Your marriage may not even survive with both parties being fully invested, yet alone just you.

I am unable to shake this feelings of betrayal. First off, she has never expressed remorse.

This is what it is all about right here.

Remorse is a one time realization. And so many newly betrayed members use this word then their spouse is nowhere near the definition of the word. "My wayward spouse is sorry and showing remorse now"....is something that I read every day here---and it couldn't be further from the truth. There is a huge difference between remorse and regret. Once remorse...true remorse...is found, it never leaves. And it can't be hidden. The problem is that we, the betrayed, look so hard and so desperately for remorse, that we mistake it for something else. Because we can't comprehend that our partner would do something so unthinkable to us---so they MUST have been out of their minds...and are now full of remorse.

Believe me, if your wife finds remorse, you will know it. There won't even be a shred of doubt in your mind. But I warn you---for many, it is either a long time coming...or may never occur.

And that, my friend, is what you have to prepare for.

As of right now, she has no remorse. So, believe it...and act accordingly.

Although you are hurting beyond belief right now, ask yourself if you will tolerate this behavior from her forever. If the answer is no, then you need to take action. One of the common pieces of advice is to not do anything rash in the beginning, but many of us used that as an excuse to do little or nothing. And that is not the right way to go about things. Your healing needs to start NOW, and that begins with you standing up for yourself...and not accepting what you are currently receiving in this marriage.

She gave you 9 years of being a good wife? SO FUCKING WHAT?!!! That is a lifetime commitment---you don't get pardoned for prior "good behavior".

Start to emotionally detach from this woman. This is not a form of punishment, it is a method for you to protect yourself, and let you start to heal. You will see things differently from an emotional distance, and will be able to make better personal decisions. If you want to stay in this marriage, you must first learn how to be willing to walk away from it---because if you do not detach, then you will not know how to properly respond to many of her actions.

If she wants to recommit to the marriage...and I mean fully recommit...then let her. Let her prove to you that she wants this marriage as badly as you do. After she can show this, then you can fully engage. She was the one who stepped outside the marriage, so it is she that has to work to do. And if she doesn't want to get to the bottom....I mean the root problems...of why she could do something so despicable, then she will never better herself. And she will behave like this again...or some other inappropriate way...in the future.

Snowback, right now everything that I have just written may seem like a distant pipe dream. I can assure you that I was in no mental state to hear the above when I was freshly betrayed. But that doesn't make it any less true. And even if you are not ready to act today, know that this is your goal---to get to this state of mind. Infidelity sucks like nothing else; we didn't ask for this---yet here we are in the middle of ground zero. It takes time to extract ourselves.

Good luck, friend.


BH-46
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2035 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
Holly-Isis
Member
Member # 13447
Default  Posted: 7:27 AM, June 14th (Friday)

I just felt that I need the TRUTH.

FYI- the BW, the one that also suspected, she wants the truth too. Her M was probably going through turmoil. Her WH was probably treating her in confusing ways, maybe coming home smelling and tasting of your WW.

Your WW isn't showing remorse and likely won't as long as she doesn't internalize the pain and destruction she's caused.

She's been the WW to a man trying to help someone out. To a man who has been faithful despite offers to wander. She was the paying AP to a man selfish enough to betray the man who was trying to help him out. Basically, she was a sugar mama. She's been the OW to a woman who clung to her WH despite what sounds like hard financial times.

It sounds like your WW doesn't want to face that. Until she does, you're going to be struggling through healing on your own. Usually the best way to get the WS to face what they've done is to make them face reality. From the sounds of it, your MC is letting her get away with rugsweeping. IME, that just hurts the M more and leads to more d-days later on. You need a MC that takes a stance and will call both of you on any issues s/he sees.


"Being in love" first moved them to promise fidelity: this quieter love enables them to keep the promise. *CS Lewis*

Posts: 11114 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: Just a fool in limbo
1Faith
Member
Member # 38975
Angry  Posted: 12:16 PM, June 14th (Friday)

Snowback

Sorry you found your way here but know that you are in a safe place and there are many people that care for you and your healing. SI is a great place to help navigate the choppy waters of infidelity.

I hope that you have considered IC for you and she needs IC for herself. She needs to understand WHY she made the conscious choice to cheat and disregard her marriage and her family.

You need to be able to work on wrapping your head around all that you have been exposed to. It is still very raw and new for you.

Don't feel foolish that you didn't know it was going on. You loved and trusted your wife. That is nothing to be ashamed of.

Her cheating was her choice. And she needs own her behavior and help you heal.

It sounds as if she is still in the fog and/or denial. She needs to show remorse for any chance of R.

You need to tell the other man's wife. She deserves to know. If she had found out wouldn't you want her to tell you? It also outs the affair. Affairs thrive under secrets and lies. This way you both are aware and can look to see if it is truly over or if they simply have taken it underground. Even if it's over the spark is still there and she deserves to know. I sure as hell wished someone would have told me. The OW husband knew but didn't tell me 6 months prior to my finding out. He thought it had ended and didn't want to cause harm to me or my family but all they did was get more crafty in their communication and meeting. It didn't stop until I found out 6 months after he did. Ugh.

Look up the 180. Time for you to take some of the power back. She needs to wake up.

You can't nice her or love her into staying. She is selfish.

We are all here for you and rooting for you.

Hang in there.


"I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it." - Maya Angelou

Posts: 1105 | Registered: Apr 2013
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 1:42 PM, June 14th (Friday)

Your wife is showing no remorse but also she is seemingly unaffected by how the betrayal has changed your marriage.
You will never fully trust her again
You have lost all respect for her
Burned all your wedding albums
You don't consider your wife a good person.
You consider your marriage a fraud
She has driven you to considering suicide
All of these relationship changing events and your wife doesn't give a damn? Your marriage has been transformed forever and she doesn't care? If you decide to reconcile she will need to exist in this transformed relationship and she just shrugs her shoulders?

That isn't love; maybe you should find out just what is causing her to not care and disrespect you so much.


Posts: 1704 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
solus sto
Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 3:52 PM, June 14th (Friday)

My affair is no longer ongoing.

So the only benefit, I feel, in telling her is to pay back the OM.

First, I'm very, very sorry for your situation. I, too, had an unremorseful spouse; the pain is breathtaking.

As for telling the OBS. It's not about stopping the affair, though it can help with that. (Given your wife's lack of empathy and remorse---and your daughter's hysteria which in my family was VERY telling, though I did not recognize it at the time---though, I'd consider whether it's possible the affair continues, at least on an emotional level.)

The REAL reason to tell the OBS is because she has the right to make informed decisions about her future, including the choice to have STD testing.

She's got a husband who sleeps around, and if she does not know it and others do---especially in the small-town environment you describe the potential for her to experience serious emotional harm is severe. And you have the ability to prevent that.


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 52, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8538 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
Snowback
New Member
Member # 39533
Default  Posted: 4:24 PM, June 14th (Friday)

Hello everyone,

Thank you all very much for your love and support. I sincerely appreciate it.
It is nice knowing that you are not alone.

Within the last day a few things happened. Yesterday, it was the first time she had actually shown a glimmer of true remorse. This happened after I asked her what she ever thought would happen if I ever found out. She said, "I obviously didn't think about it, but when I did, I thought you would really kill yourself."
I obviously got upset, that how could you really do something that you sincerely believe would cause death to someone, especially to someone you loved. I felt true pain.

Today, I told her that I am planning to tell the OBS. She started getting very emotional. When asked, she said because it is very humiliating for her, and she doesn't think she is strong enough to go through with our whole, small, community knowing. She said, that I regretted unlike how most people would react, and she has a greater appreciation for me.

I know that she has a history of lying. So I of course take everything with a grain of salt. She does truly feel humiliated. She also feels the pain that she caused my daughter.

I also found out that prior to the dday, she had started seeing a therapist because how she felt.

In the previous responses, I didn't understand all the acronyms. What does AP, IC, and 180 mean?

On a side note, has anyone ever had a revenge affair, or revenge ONS?
If yes, did you find it helped at all?

I would never do it for the sake of REVENGE, or even to tell her about it. The only reason I would think it would maybe help, is maybe it would make me feel like I have some type of guilt, whereas my pain for what she did to me would be less.
I have previously said, that I have always outright rejected advances in the past because what it would do to my family, but I honestly don't have that conscious anymore. I have expressed this to my wife.
I am not completely cold. I would never do anything who is a relationship themselves, as I know what it feels to be betrayed.

I don't know what else that I have the power to do, that can help get rid of the pain. BUT your advice is helping me go in the right direction.

Thank you once again


Posts: 7 | Registered: Jun 2013
doctor49
Member
Member # 15847
Default  Posted: 7:02 PM, June 14th (Friday)

If you've not checked out the Healing Library (link in the yellow menu box on the left) it might be worth a little time. It explains abbreviations AP = Affair Partner and also provides much other information.

I looked for the 180 there but couldn't see it at first glance. But I'm sure someone will come along with the right link.

The 180 is about helping you move on. It changes the way you behave towards your WW. And helps your future direction setting.

Revenge Affairs? The view here is don't. It's an understandable response but makes recovery even more difficult and fraught. And you're better than that.

As to where to next, an issue that stood out for me was that when asked your WW said

I obviously didn't think about it, but when I did, I thought you would really kill yourself.
.

And went ahead anyway. Does she think you'd still want to stay married to her?

And more to the point, do you really want to?


Posts: 243 | Registered: Aug 2007
Getting to Happy
Member
Member # 35200
Default  Posted: 7:04 PM, June 14th (Friday)

Please don't do that. That would make things worse, if that was possible!

Have a look in the "I can relate" Thread. There is a Madhatter's forum.

WS/BS it is not a great place to be.

Keep your head high. Don't lower yourself to that level. Don't expose your DD to this kind of dysfunctional family life. One adulterer is enough!

You seem to have enough empathy to understand the situation as it is.

It is 100 times worse.


WS him
BS me DD's 26, 25' DS 23
dd1 1-1-10, dd2 Mothers Day 2011, dd3 3-12-12 Hawaii trip with ho-worker...

Never forget what is worth remembering or remember what is best forgotten.
Unknown


Posts: 1138 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: La La Land
stronger08
Member
Member # 16953
Default  Posted: 2:40 AM, June 15th (Saturday)

Today, I told her that I am planning to tell the OBS. She started getting very emotional. When asked, she said because it is very humiliating for her, and she doesn't think she is strong enough to go through with our whole, small, community knowing. She said, that I regretted unlike how most people would react, and she has a greater appreciation for me.

Bull Fucking Shit !!!!!!!

Humiliation ? How the hell does she think you feel ? And let me also say this.
There is a big difference between regret and remorse. More like she regrets getting caught in my opinion. Bro, She is playing the poor little me nonsense on you right now. She wants you to keep her little affair a secret. And trust me when I say this. She thought about what could have happened before she engaged in her affair. And she did it anyway. Don't fall for this bullshit. She is a very selfish and immature woman. Read between the lines of her statements. Its all about how all of this will affect her. She could care less what happened to you. She is afraid what people will say about her ? Well honey, should have thought about that before you slept with a MM. Once again she is trying to manipulate you into doing what she wants. And you need to stop telling her what your plans are. If you intend on telling the other BS just do it.

I see this taking the usual course here. She is going to play the victim. And when that does not work she will turn on you. She will start blaming everyone and everything. Including you my friend. By telling her you just gave her time to come up with a more palatable story. And most likely she gave OM a heads up about what's coming. Now the POS is going to beat you to the punch and tell his BS that he has a "friend" who's husband is an insanely jealous man who thinks he is having an A with his W. Your going to be painted as the crazy one here. At the very least he is going to tell his BS a much watered down story.

Mark my words here. The next approach for your WW is going to be anger. When she finds out that the victim routine does not work she is going to try the anger and bully route. She will threaten to leave you and generally make your life miserable. I'll bet my left nut that she is already rewriting marital history. And if you decide to dump her ass she will make you the villain in all of this. Stop telegraphing your punches my friend. I'm sorry if I'm coming on strong here. But this is exactly what most WS do. You have classic WS behavior going on. And you are allowing her to bait you into the trap. We have a theory here that we call "The WS handbook" and she is running all of her plays out of it. You might ask yourself how we know this. And the answer is we have all fallen into that trap. I know how you feel. You think your situation is unique. You think that no one can understand how you feel. That perhaps maybe you can fix this. But in reality we have all been in your shoes. And you cant fix her. I suggest you change your game plan bro. Hang in there my man. The shit is about to hit the proverbial fan.


You cant eat soup with chopsticks.

Posts: 5603 | Registered: Nov 2007
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 4:40 AM, June 15th (Saturday)

Be careful, my friend.

Yesterday, it was the first time she had actually shown a glimmer of true remorse.

Remember what I posted earlier. There is a huge difference between regret and remorse. And we are so desperately looking for remorse, that we overlook what that really means. The most common responses to the questions we ask our spouse about the affair(or its effects) are:

--"I don't remember"
--"I didn't think that you would care"

and the #1 response:

--"I didn't think about it".

But of course they thought about it. You stated yourself that she lived an entire double life. And with that double life comes a whole bunch of lying, acting, and manipulation. The sad truth is that she thought about it all the time.

I am not trying to turn you against her and tell you to get out of dodge. What I am trying to get you to do is start to step back emotionally...which is one of the hardest things to do...so you can see things in a different light. The anger phase will hit you sooner or later, and it is best to use that anger constructively.

Today, I told her that I am planning to tell the OBS. She started getting very emotional. When asked, she said because it is very humiliating for her, and she doesn't think she is strong enough to go through with our whole, small, community knowing. She said, that I regretted unlike how most people would react, and she has a greater appreciation for me.

Again, I wasn't there to listen to your conversation, but what I see is "me, me,.....I.....me...etc". How this will affect her. And it is important that you see this. Again, like stronger said, their actions are almost scripted at this point. And regretfully, so are ours. We beg and plead with our own conscience to accept things that we shouldn't. We tell our spouses what our next moves will be(i.e. you telling the other betrayed spouse), because we feel that we should be honest and open with them and lead by example---when right now, that is one thing that we should not do.

You need to be a little more selfish at this point. I guarantee that you will not "drive her away" with these actions. If she does leave, or threaten to, then trust me---she wasn't committed to the marriage.

With remorse comes empathy...a whole lot of it. She would be concerned about your feelings before hers, and that is simply not the case. Maybe someday she will "get it"---but not at this point. She had to vilify you for a long time to do what she did, even though she stated that she didn't leave you due to you being too nice...and not deserving of that. The truth is, she simply did not care enough about you, and put her selfish needs first. For over a year.

That mindset doesn't change overnight.

Hang in there, because it does get easier. We have got your back...even if it sounds like we are beating you up. We are trying to get you through this as mistake free as possible----because we made TONS of mistakes when we were in your position. And you can avoid many of the pitfalls if you are open to our suggestions.

[This message edited by jb3199 at 4:41 AM, June 15th (Saturday)]


BH-46
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2035 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
Snowback
New Member
Member # 39533
Default  Posted: 9:38 PM, June 15th (Saturday)

Don't worry about giving me tough love!!

If I can still wake up the next day after through what I went through, I can handle well intentioned constructive advice.

She can never claim the I am just an insane, jealous husband. Right after dday, I had her write out on paper every time she met him, and where it took place.

We made an agreement, where every single night, for one hour, I can ask her questions that are on my mind. She must answer them, without any hesitance. We have done this twice, fully complying. I view this as progress. Where she wants to make this work.

Then again, I could just be naive!! There is one thing I do know. I definitely don't want to make a rash decision, or to "cut my nose off despite my face."

Thank you all


Posts: 7 | Registered: Jun 2013
crisp
Member
Member # 34236
Default  Posted: 7:02 AM, June 16th (Sunday)

Step back from the counselor. Joint sessions will be helpful if you ever get to the point where she has done to work to get to that stage. Right now, she needs to see her own counselor to get to the root of her brokenness.

I don't have a lot of experience in relationship or mental health counseling, but reading here over time give one a collective wisdom. That wisdom is clear. MC (marriage counseling) is only appropriate and effective after the wayward spouse does the hard work in IC (individual counseling) needed to own their own shit and show true remorse.

Your current MC is either incompetent or thinks of herself as a mediator and is doing harm to you and your reconciliation prospects. In the legal field, there are lawyers that work as mediators. Their job is to see if they can get parties to agree on a resolution to a dispute. They do not try to get a fair deal or accomplish what is just. It sounds like your MC is trying to even the playing field in your marriage. SO WRONG. My guess is that the MC sees her role as an attempt to get you to forgive and move on. Dump her.


Endeavor to persevere. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csEzTwKemwY

Posts: 371 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: NE US
Topic Posts: 23