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Reconciliation
User Topic: Off topic? Abuse of DD and reconciliation.
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 3:06 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

This has been on my head for a while, and I have started to post it a couple of times and stopped. But here goes (I deleted this three times just now)

About a month ago, we discovered that my FIL had been taking lewd images of our daughter(9). It has been difficult because he has been their primary care giver for years. We called the police and an investigation was done. The police have submitted the recommendation to the county attorney that he be charged with sexual exploitation of a child, which carries a 10 year minimum sentence. Now, it's up to the County attorneys on how to proceed.

So my wife's counselor (who agrees with our actions) told my wife that now she has an inkling into how I must have felt being betrayed by a person I loved and trusted. I guess I see where she's coming from, it can't have been easy for my wife to call the police on her dad. But my anger is so deep at him that I don't even feel betrayed, I just want to beat him.

It's funny how we as betrayed often say that nobody can know how we feel unless they have experienced it themselves. On a rational level, I understand how terrible it must be for my wife to have this betrayal, but at the same time, I am having some difficulty emphasizing with her. (regarding her feelings of betrayal by her dad, not the emotional devastation of having your child abused).

Anyway, it hasn't negatively impacted R, but I thought the input from her counselor was interesting.

[This message edited by wonderboy at 3:07 PM, June 13th (Thursday)]


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1296 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
MissesJai
Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 3:11 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

OMG I'm so sorry wonderboy. I'm at a loss for words. Your poor DD. How is she doing?


FWW - 41
"Don't think first about the risks of speaking up. Think first about the risks of not speaking up." ~ Kerry Patterson

Posts: 5989 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
alphakitte
Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 3:13 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

No words, just hugs!


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 350 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 3:17 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

Situation was pretty messed up. Daughter actually seems to be doing fine. I find it telling that none of the children want to know why they haven't seen him for a month.

JNRPA blames herself a lot for this, so she has been struggling with that. I have tried to get her to understand that it isn't her fault. I think she's getting there. But I know she has a lot of guilt about letting him watch our kids and then calling the cops on him.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1296 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
DeadMumWalking
Member
Member # 25341
Default  Posted: 3:19 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

((((wonderboy & DD))))

I am so sorry this is happening to your family.

About the counselor's comment: maybe it is spot on, but I personally feel a little uncomfortable that the counselor would leverage this situation to make that point.

I do however COMPLETELY understand that you are having difficulty empathizing with her.

This is a very difficult, complicated situation to navigate. I am sending strength and positive thoughts to you all.

((((wonderboy)))) ((((DD))))


Me (BS), Him (WH): early 50's
3 DS: teens!!! :)
M: 25 (19 1/2 at Dday), Together 30
Dday: Dec 2008
Limbo-ish, again (after multiple S) -- weighing my options

Posts: 2625 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: EU
Exit Wounds
Member
Member # 32811
Default  Posted: 3:20 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

But I know she has a lot of guilt about letting him watch our kids and then calling the cops on him.

Realizing that this is the Recon forum, I will hold my tongue, but I would like to say that forget her, concentrate on your DD!

Your DD needs help!!!
ETA
Your DD is being used by that POS and you worry about your WW?!

[This message edited by Exit Wounds at 8:09 AM, June 14th (Friday)]


Posts: 2486 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: With my dad...and my dog...
alphakitte
Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 3:22 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

You may feel empathy, in the future. I imagine a father's first reaction is to protect their child and then crush the monster. You feelings may evolve.


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 350 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
numb&dumb
Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 3:27 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

So sorry man. The anger is understandable.

The counselor was probably trying to get your W to open up about it.

Best to you, wife and the kids.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2568 | Registered: May 2010
SandAway
Member
Member # 37775
Default  Posted: 3:28 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

I understand this.

She was betrayed by her father - someone that she has trusted throughout her life. He was the first man she loved. She has known him all her life. She trusted him and I am sure never ever thought he would do this.

She is a mother who couldn't protect her daughter - not even with her own father.

As a mother, I understand this...

you dont have to feel empathy for her, but you shouldn't try comparing the betrayals either....

((wonderboy & JNRPA))


fWW
BH Tred
M 16yrs
DDay Nov. 2011

Guns don't kill people; Affairs kill people


Posts: 439 | Registered: Dec 2012
MissesJai
Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 4:42 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

I understand all too well how JNRPA feels the need to blame herself. When DS18 opened up to me about something that happened to him when he was 4 - committed by a close family friend, I immediately blamed myself for it. My IC had to keep me from jumping off a bridge - I was so distraught. Hopefully her IC will help her work through this so that she no longer blames herself. Big hugs to you both.


FWW - 41
"Don't think first about the risks of speaking up. Think first about the risks of not speaking up." ~ Kerry Patterson

Posts: 5989 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
JustWow
Member
Member # 19636
Default  Posted: 4:46 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

I have one of those FIL. In our experience, this behavior of his didn't start suddenly at age 60. Once it was uncovered it was the tip of the iceberg.

Take care of your kiddo(s). Maybe consult a therapist who deals with these issues with kids. I have no experience in that realm, however. FIL was outed when my kiddos were tiny, no exposure, thank God.


BW - Reconciling

edited for typos (I always have to!)


Posts: 3636 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Midwest
sisoon
Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 4:47 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

No words, wonderboy and JNRPA, just best wishes to you all.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10430 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 5:10 PM, June 13th (Thursday)


ETA
Your DD is being used by that POS and you worry about your WW?!

Worrying about my wife and my DD are not mutually exclusive.

As far as this being the tip of the ice-burg. I hope it is not. The kids were the ones who exposed this, so I don't think they are hiding anything else. (And the police did a pretty thorough search of his place). That doesn't mean I won't prepare for the worst, but we are hopeful that this is as far as it goes--not that this is a good situation.


She was betrayed by her father - someone that she has trusted throughout her life. He was the first man she loved. She has known him all her life. She trusted him and I am sure never ever thought he would do this.

She is a mother who couldn't protect her daughter - not even with her own father.

As a mother, I understand this...


This helps, thanks all.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1296 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
CheaterMagnet
Member
Member # 33581
Default  Posted: 5:41 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

I think what was meant by the tip of the iceberg is that there is a good probability that your WW was abused as well. It's possible that she's blocked the memories (I've done that so I know it can happen).

Sending you ALL massive (((HUGS)))


If Happy Ever After did exist, I would still be holding you like this.
All those fairly tales are full of shit.
One more fucking love song I'll be sick. ~ Maroon 5

Posts: 1038 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Kailua-Kona, HI
Reality
Member
Member # 39077
Default  Posted: 6:00 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

I hate to pile on to the doom and gloom bit, but seconded on the taking a look at your wife's relationship with her dad.

My grandfather was first investigated for abusing one of his granddaughters. After everything was exposed, it was six grandchildren and almost all of his children. Horrible, terrible stuff.

Men who are inappropriate/abusive with children don't just start out of the blue (with the exception of brain illness/trauma).

All the hugs for you, and your daughter. I was one of those grandchildren "discovered" during the investigation. You don't know the gift you've given your daughter that you're her advocate. Lots of us never get that.

[This message edited by Reality at 6:01 PM, June 13th (Thursday)]


Posts: 292 | Registered: Apr 2013
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 6:08 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

My wife and I went over this, she doesn't remember anything other than some pretty inappropriate behavior to her friends. Which...should have been a red flag in retrospect. So how does she did deeper?

We have told the other extended family members. We felt that we had an obligation to do so, for the safety of all the kids. No one else thus far has come forward and said that it happened to them too. I don't know if someone will later, but it hasn't happened yet.

It is my understanding that the County attorney will be prosecuting (at least from the detective's perspective), so the FIL is looking at a minimum 10 year sentence with a max of 28 years. If convicted.

Other than ensuring the safety of the kids, are there other steps we should be taking?


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1296 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
girlsbird
Member
Member # 30877
Default  Posted: 9:17 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

Wow...this is just horrible.

((((Wonerboy, JNPRA and children))))


D-Day 10/28/10..almost admission 7/10 Reconciled. I was the betrayed

Posts: 1203 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: arizona
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 12:17 AM, June 14th (Friday)

Wow, sorry for the added trauma. I do agree with the others who have suggested that this is the tip of the iceburg. I too find it telling that none of the others have mentioned not seeing him. I assume that a forensic exam was done to his computer. Do you have access to an older one?

What about you brother? Have you seen an IC yet? I HIGHLY recommend you do so.

Strength and prayers to you and JNRPA and your family/


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 3031 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
metamorphisis
Administrator
Member # 12041
Default  Posted: 8:22 AM, June 14th (Friday)

wonderboy..
FIrst I am so very very sorry you are dealing with this.
Secondly when I read this yesterday I immediately also wondered about your FIL's relationship with your wife and if there is anything there. Again, even the inappropriate behaviour with her friends probably left a very large mark on her.
I am not surprised that nobody else is coming forward or that your daughter is acting "fine".
There is nothing quite like sexual abuse. It's so steeped in shame that everyone in the situation jumps to denial. Our brains aren't quite equipped to process this kind of trauma and as victims we stuff it down, our loved ones don't know what to do or say and it's so much easier to deny it than deal with the pain.

I will share something a counsellor told me once that was just amazing.

She said to think of sexual abuse as the seed. It's a horrible nasty dehumanizing seed. It gets planted but it needs ideal conditions to grow and take over. It needs shame, and secrecy and denial. The things that can keep it from growing are talking, and support, and love, and parents that won't accept that for you and who shine a light on it.

Keep shining a light on it. Talk about it, get into counselling with your dd and let her process it. I would be very very very wary of assuming she's ok because she's not talking about it.
It WILL come out later in self harming ways. Every woman I met in counselling (we did a lot of group counselling) who had denied it, never talked about it and never processed it was dealing with it in horrific ways as an adult.
You have already blown the lid off this. You are being an awesome advocate for your dd. Get a good therapist and talk and talk and talk. Reassure her. Strangle the seed and don't let it grow.
Sending strength and love to you and your family. This is horrible .. rest assured you ARE doing the right thing even if everyone around you wants to pretend it doesn't exist. Bravo to you and your wife for not being willing to keep the secrets of a sick sick man.



“We don't see things as they are; we see them as we are.”... Anais Nin

Posts: 45035 | Registered: Sep 2006
lieshurt
Member
Member # 14003
Default  Posted: 8:28 AM, June 14th (Friday)

she doesn't remember anything other than some pretty inappropriate behavior to her friends

I'm sorry, but if she remembers this then how could she possibly leave your children with him?

Every woman I met in counselling (we did a lot of group counselling) who had denied it, never talked about it and never processed it was dealing with it in horrific ways as an adult.

I know from experience that this is true as I'm dealing with this now.


Walk away from anything or anyone who takes away your joy. Life is too short to put up with fools.

Posts: 13818 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Houston
sailorgirl
Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 9:24 AM, June 14th (Friday)

wonderboy,

I am so sorry. I think it's completely normal for you to have trouble empathizing with your wife over her father's betrayal of trust. You can only feel so much at once and you've been dealt a really bad hand.

The parallel I see is that FIL did not do this to hurt your W. He did it because he is broken, soul-sick, disordered. Your wife did not have an affair to hurt you--she did it because she was damaged inside. I can't help but wonder if some of that damage came from her FOO.

My WH's low self worth and piss poor boundaries came from his abusive FOO and greased the slippery slope towards infidelity.

I am sure that your W had no conscious knowledge that her father was capable of this. In retrospect she may remember inappropriate things, but denial and minimization are immensely powerful when it comes to this stuff. Especially when it's a child who has to believe the best of the parent they are dependent on.

((wonderboy, W, and kids))


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 9:57 AM, June 14th (Friday)

I'm sorry, but if she remembers this then how could she possibly leave your children with him?

This information came to light after everything was discovered. I don't blame my wife for this, thinking your dad acts kind of creepy around your friends is not the same as thinking that your dad would harm your children.

We are doing our best to protect our daughter at this point, get her to understand that she is safe and not to blame for anything, and that she did nothing wrong. DD has not seen a counselor yet, as we are moving next week. But it is something that will be addressed.

As far as uncovering things..yes they did a forensic search of his computer, phone, etc. Searched the house. Questioned him for hours. I haven't spoken to FIL yet, not ready to, I will hurt him.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1296 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 10:49 AM, June 14th (Friday)

I haven't spoken to FIL yet, not ready to,

Don't! There is absolutely nothing of value to be gained.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 3031 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
MissesJai
Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 10:59 AM, June 14th (Friday)

thank you for the updates, wb. I'm so very sorry for you, JNRPA and DD. This may have already been asked but how are YOU & JNRPA?
I haven't spoken to FIL yet, not ready to
agreed - no need. I'd say wait until there's a glass partition between the two of you.


FWW - 41
"Don't think first about the risks of speaking up. Think first about the risks of not speaking up." ~ Kerry Patterson

Posts: 5989 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
lordhasaplan?
Member
Member # 30079
Default  Posted: 11:16 AM, June 14th (Friday)

Wonder boy,
I have no words. Talk about one thing after another. Stay as strong as possible. keep time for yourself and your family front and center. I wish you and yours all the prayers and well wishes I can provide. Such a horrible situation.
((((WB, DD and whole Fam)


D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10).
No life should be passively relinquished due to the toxicity of others and taking steps to protect yourself may very well be the most important steps you will ever take.

Posts: 1912 | Registered: Nov 2010
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 11:35 AM, June 14th (Friday)

This may have already been asked but how are YOU & JNRPA?

JNRPA is struggling a bit with this, but she knows she has done the right thing in protecting DD and not just wishing it away. I am doing o.k.

Relationship wise, we are doing fantastic. Communication is good, we have a great weekend planned, starting off with date night tonight. Still seeing efforts to change, still honest, transparent, and very remorseful. So on that front we are good. United.

But she is struggling with the fact that her dad may be going to jail for a very long time. (I try to be empathetic, but quite frankly..he can rot there for all I care). She doesn't doubt her decision, but she is still very sad about the situation. I think she is accepting that it isn't her fault that he is going to jail, he is the one who chose to do this. Involving the police for the safety of the children is a consequence of his decisions.

So I think we are doing as well as expected. Doesn't help that the house is torn apart because we are moving in two weeks. But we keep calm and carry on.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1296 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 12:15 PM, June 14th (Friday)

WB, I'm so sorry that this has happened to your family.

First. Huge kudos to JN for reporting her father to the police. That had to have been a very hard phone call for her to make, but she did it anyway. It is so nice to see a parent that does the right thing for their child regardless of the possible fall-out.

Second. Your relationship with JN's father is different than hers is. You don't have to deal with the parent/child connection. To you, he's the person that has harmed your DD. He is that to JN also but he is also her *daddy*. I can only imagine that she has all kinds of not-so-good and conflicted feelings about him right now. As you know, it's very hard to just turn off how you feel about a person. Is JN struggling with any type of guilty feelings because she still loves or cares about her dad along with the anger she feels towards him?

Jeez. What a mess. It's wonderful that you guys are confronting it head-on and communicating and supporting each other and your littles.

Good luck, WB.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8112 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
cantaccept
Member
Member # 37451
Default  Posted: 12:26 PM, June 14th (Friday)

I would like to express my sorrow that this has happened to your daughter.

The good part is that she has you to protect her, let her know it is not her fault. Love her and make her feel special, priceless and irreplaceable.

I only know from my life experience. Certainly not a professional, but what I would have wished for as a child if I could go back in time.

This is a big part of why I have struggled with my life, accepted so little as being all I deserved.

Wish I could express this better to you. It is hard.

Just that my thoughts and wishes for healing for her are with you.


"So often times it happens, that we live our lives in chains and we never even know we have the key"

I would now like to be known as Can!

dday October 21,2012
dday December 20, 2013
wh boots5050
attempted R, it was all a lie

Divor


Posts: 1437 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Connecticut
Reality
Member
Member # 39077
Default  Posted: 12:39 PM, June 14th (Friday)

We have told the other extended family members. We felt that we had an obligation to do so, for the safety of all the kids. No one else thus far has come forward and said that it happened to them too. I don't know if someone will later, but it hasn't happened yet.

That was a kind and brave thing to do. Can I give you a bit of a preparatory heads up on this? You said your wife remembers her father being inappropriate with friends. She's likely not the only one to have observed this, if she has siblings. Metamorphisis said it so well with this:

There is nothing quite like sexual abuse. It's so steeped in shame that everyone in the situation jumps to denial. Our brains aren't quite equipped to process this kind of trauma and as victims we stuff it down, our loved ones don't know what to do or say and it's so much easier to deny it than deal with the pain.

There's a huge tendency to ignore, reject, and deny behavior like this in those we love. In our situation, there were serious numbers involved. How was it that it was never addressed previously? Because everyone was so intent on refusing to acknowledge it. It went on through TWO GENERATIONS because people couldn't face it. When my cousin's kindergarten teacher contacted the police after seeing her behavior and drawings strongly indicate severe sexual abuse, the choice was taken out of the family's hands and THAT'S when action began. That wasn't, however, the first time it was spoken of by the victims. No one would listen in the face of having to acknowledge reality.

THIS HAPPENS. Even when the police got involved, there was a systemic push to keep quiet and not "cause more problems." It cause rifts in sibling and cousin relationships that have never healed. Speaking out or placing blame on the perpetrator is often read as betrayal by those still in denial. BE CAREFUL OF THIS.

It is my understanding that the County attorney will be prosecuting (at least from the detective's perspective), so the FIL is looking at a minimum 10 year sentence with a max of 28 years. If convicted.

Good, good, good. Remember, unfortunately, unless your FIL has a record, he will likely be able to plea bargain that down to a much shorter sentence. First time offenders get sentenced as such. In ours, this is what happened.

Other than ensuring the safety of the kids, are there other steps we should be taking?

You are already so far ahead of the game by doing this. Your daughter is going to be very concerned with keeping things stable and calm. If the situation shows that it's painful to the adults, she'll likely minimize her own discomfort to try to "help." Don't let her parent the adults involved. Try to keep the open adult trauma separate from her. She'll have no emotional option at her age but to blame herself for it. Remember, she's also going to have trust issues. Adults + traumatic situation = not safe on a very basic unconscious level for her now. Be happy. Show her approval. It will help more than anything.

Also? The investigators and CPS and family will want her to tell what happened over and over again. Some of them will think they can demand the information at whim and in horrible detail. DON'T LET THEM DO THIS. After she tells the authorities, unless she brings it up, don't force her to go over the particulars AGAIN. It's a crappy little circular path to PTSD. And that cycle happens all the time.

All my best for your family. It will get better. Be on guard. People will try to help, but usually bring their own issues along for the ride.


Posts: 292 | Registered: Apr 2013
stilllovingher
Member
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, June 14th (Friday)

jeez man,
I'm so sorry to hear about this.
Hold your little girl tight, she needs it. (I'm sure you have been)

as for the counselor's comparison, I think in the long run she was right, but right now I highly doubt that your wife is in any state of mind to make those connections meaningful.
as others have said, the focus needs to be on DD, that obviously goes for the wife too.

good luck and best wishes for you all.


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2407 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 1:16 PM, June 14th (Friday)

THIS HAPPENS. Even when the police got involved, there was a systemic push to keep quiet and not "cause more problems." It cause rifts in sibling and cousin relationships that have never healed. Speaking out or placing blame on the perpetrator is often read as betrayal by those still in denial. BE CAREFUL OF THIS.

We immediately got this from MIL. Ended up in a yelling match between her and I, not pretty. She has since changed her tune.

Surprisingly the extended family members have been supportive, and not tried to minimize or place the blame on us.

We are doing our best to show DD that she is safe and that we will always protect and believe her. The CPS here in Phoenix is actually really good. The child crimes divisions is a separate facility with tons of counselors and is set up in an incredibly kid-friendly and safe manner. I was very impressed.


Thank you all for your advice and prayers.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1296 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
Topic Posts: 31