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User Topic: Sometimes she downplays (warning graphic)
2married2quit
Member
Member # 36555
Default  Posted: 4:40 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

Sometimes she says "it wasn't such a big deal". "I can't believe it, it was nothing and now all this". Once in a while she says these things. While in the fog mostly. But the TT started with flirting, sexting, a kiss, making out to full on physical stuff (fingering). So should I be this pissed? I mean, am I over reacting? She didn't have complete sex or oral (from what I know of).

I just want to know am I sane? Am I making a big deal over nothing or is any physical contact unacceptable? Besides that, there was an emotional affair as well.


BS - Me 43 WS - Her 41
DDAY - June 2012 (found the texts)
DDAY2 - Next Day (found out who) EA
TT- till 9/2012 (some PA)
Married 20yrs. 2kids
Status: in careful R. Sometimes spinning our wheels

Posts: 1304 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: USA
lilflower1000
Member
Member # 36634
Default  Posted: 4:55 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

Of course it is a big deal. Yes you should be angry. ((hugs))


lilflower1000
Me: 44 BS
Married 12 yrs
Dday:8/1/2012
True R: 12/2012
4kids(11, 8, 5, 4mos)+ 2 Step kids I love like my own

Posts: 308 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: Georgia
FeelingSoMuch
Member
Member # 38814
Default  Posted: 4:57 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

It's a big deal. And the EA hurts a lot, too.


Me: BH
Her: WW
Together since 2001, married since 2007.
D-day: Feb. 20, 2013.
Broke NC: 2 phone calls since
Today: In MC and IC, attempting R.
It got easier: They no longer work together.

Posts: 509 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Canada
Rebreather
Member
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 5:05 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

Yeah. Ouch. That's no remorse.

You aren't crazy. What she did was wrong, wrong, wrong. In addition, it took her a long time to stop contact and to pull her head out. She's really not that far along her healing path. I hope she is doing some intense work on herself.


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Recovering.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6353 | Registered: Jan 2011
Skan
Member
Member # 35812
Default  Posted: 5:08 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

Would she be angry if you allowed someone to jerk you off? I rather think so!


Imagine a ship trying to set sail while towing an anchor. Cutting free is not a gift to the anchor. You must release that burden, not because the anchor is worthy, but because the ship is.

D-Day, June 10, 2012



Posts: 4692 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: So California
2married2quit
Member
Member # 36555
Default  Posted: 5:12 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

Thank you!!! Wheww...never been able to tell anyone and I wanted to check if I was insane. But I am pissed. It's been a year so I have accepted it. She's very repented of it, dealing with guilt and shame. The EA was also a huge deal as she was emotionally divorced from me period. The fog has lifted. THANK GOD!

She still has a long way to go.


BS - Me 43 WS - Her 41
DDAY - June 2012 (found the texts)
DDAY2 - Next Day (found out who) EA
TT- till 9/2012 (some PA)
Married 20yrs. 2kids
Status: in careful R. Sometimes spinning our wheels

Posts: 1304 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: USA
2married2quit
Member
Member # 36555
Default  Posted: 5:14 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

I think what happens is that many times we hear about sexual affairs that last years and in comparison to what she did, it is somewhat "minimal". However, betrayal is BETRAYAL. Needless to say, this is one of the things I can't erase from my mind when we make love. Kissing is a big no-no too. I do not make out with her unless we are having sex. She also wears a skirt that he felt her up in. When ever she wears that, I do NOT approach her at all!!!!!


BS - Me 43 WS - Her 41
DDAY - June 2012 (found the texts)
DDAY2 - Next Day (found out who) EA
TT- till 9/2012 (some PA)
Married 20yrs. 2kids
Status: in careful R. Sometimes spinning our wheels

Posts: 1304 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: USA
sisoon
Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 5:17 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

You can recover from this, but betrayal hurts.

The EA hurts tremendously. The sex hurts a lot. The violation of vows hurts a lot. The lying hurts a lot. Above all (IMO), the betrayal hurts more than all the rest combined.

Can you evaluate each element separately? Sometimes I think 'yes', sometimes 'no'.

In the end, you define the level of permitted physical activity. Personally, I suspect I'd feel as bad as I do if the physical aspect had been as little as a romantic kiss.

It IS a BIG DEAL.

[This message edited by sisoon at 5:18 PM, June 13th (Thursday)]


fBH (me) - 70, fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 9947 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
Afraid2LoveAgain
Member
Member # 11185
Default  Posted: 5:19 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

Burn that skirt.


BW -- 57
Divorced 2001
Re-married 2014--on what would have been our 35th anniversary

Posts: 412 | Registered: Jul 2006 | From: NC
2married2quit
Member
Member # 36555
Default  Posted: 5:23 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

sisoon - I try to break it down and there's levels of intensity for each. The EA, PA, Kisses, sexting, all have different levels of intensity in my anger and hurt.

Afraid2LoveAgain - Agreed. It's one of her faves but it just makes me SO DARN UNCOMFORTABLE every single time she wears it. She threw away a panty and a lingerie already.


BS - Me 43 WS - Her 41
DDAY - June 2012 (found the texts)
DDAY2 - Next Day (found out who) EA
TT- till 9/2012 (some PA)
Married 20yrs. 2kids
Status: in careful R. Sometimes spinning our wheels

Posts: 1304 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: USA
Rebreather
Member
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 5:29 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

Burn that skirt.

Word.


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Recovering.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6353 | Registered: Jan 2011
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 5:29 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

Betrayal is unacceptable. I have a hard time dealing with some of the stuff that my wife did, but the emotional component of it is just as bad.

As far as that skirt goes...why the hell hasn't it been burned? If she knows it triggers you, a remorseful person would have gotten rid of it.

Here's what remorse looks like:

This morning I got an email from my wife, wanting to know if everything was o.k. because I seemed a little distant. Told her that her "tough Mudder" shirt just kind of got me thinking about the affair, because she had showed the pictures of the event to him. No big deal.
Her response: Consider the shirt trashed, you will never see it again. I am so sorry..etc.

But no, you are in no way, shape, or form, overreacting.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1272 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
LA44
Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 5:35 PM, June 13th (Thursday)

2M2Q: You know what? Who cares if the skirt is one of her favs? Go out TOGETHER and pick out a new fav skirt.

I am saying this kindly to you but it's not repentive to say:

"it wasn't such a big deal". "I can't believe it, it was nothing and now all this". [/quote)

Hugs!


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2220 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
sinsof thefather
Member
Member # 29295
Default  Posted: 2:31 AM, June 14th (Friday)

As far as that skirt goes...why the hell hasn't it been burned? If she knows it triggers you, a remorseful person would have gotten rid of it.


Exactly. If she were fully remorseful, she wouldn't be able to bear even the thought of that skirt because of the pain she knows it causes you - it would actually become a trigger for HER too.

But instead, knowing that it DOES hurt you, she actually still wears it? That skirt is more important to her than your pain?

2married2quit, I'll say right now that I haven't read your story before - so maybe I'm way off base with what I say next - but based on this post alone, I'd say it's more than just downplaying going on here. To me it smacks of total selfishness and a lack of true remorse. Sorry.


((2married2quit))

[This message edited by sinsof thefather at 2:33 AM, June 14th (Friday)]


...second star to the right and straight on till morning.

Posts: 1856 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: UK
Emptyshelldad
Member
Member # 32292
Default  Posted: 2:36 AM, June 14th (Friday)

am I the only one that thinks that this could be a downplaying to save bs feelings. once your an adult who has sex regularly, making out of that caliber (third base and all) generally you cross all the way to home plate every time. so.....it seems....convenient that they say they didn't because it does cause this very question....it's it as wrong if they didn't actually sleep together....but come on.....seems very very suspect to me.....anyone else feelings or am I missing something.


Me: BH - 28, Her: WW - 31, 10 years, 5 months, 6 days.
2 beautiful daughters. 1 devious, deceitful, serpant-like liar of a wife.
"oh god this has brought a path of destruction and scorching pain leaving in its wake a charred wasteland of a onc

Posts: 149 | Registered: May 2011 | From: emptyshelldad
2married2quit
Member
Member # 36555
Default  Posted: 10:48 AM, June 14th (Friday)

Agreed about the skirt. We'll have the talk this weekend. Today I told her we should go shopping for a new one.

She claims that she has blocked out that person from her mind (OM) and therefore she wants to reclaim things/songs and not be about him at all. Is this wrong? I don't like how it triggers me.


BS - Me 43 WS - Her 41
DDAY - June 2012 (found the texts)
DDAY2 - Next Day (found out who) EA
TT- till 9/2012 (some PA)
Married 20yrs. 2kids
Status: in careful R. Sometimes spinning our wheels

Posts: 1304 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: USA
libertyrocks
Member
Member # 38924
Default  Posted: 10:58 AM, June 14th (Friday)

I just had my "throw-away-his-clothes-party." It was great and I felt so much better afterwards. He helped, we discussed, and he threw them in the garbage.

But, YES, it hurts!!! I can't believe she says it wasn't a big deal. She has no idea how you feel!! Oooo, I"m so mad at her right now...

Don't let her manipulate your feelings, make her own the very actions she did THAT caused YOU to feel the way you do.

I tell H all the time, HE DID THIS TO ME, now he has to make it better.

Do it when your ready. We've been working on creating new memories from his old ones at places, restaurants, etc...But a hotel. Not just yet. I'm not ready to go on a vacation. That's where he banged his loser broads after they got drunk first. Bc booze was his #1 lover...

[This message edited by libertyrocks at 11:00 AM, June 14th (Friday)]


Me-BW 36. STBXH-35,Recovering Alcoholic, M6yrs T13. Boys 2 & 4 1/2.
DDay #1 Nov,2012. 1 1/2 year false R & TT. 10 OW PA's 1LTA (W lied to) 3 years.
S Nov, 2013 again Jan,2014
Filed for D Feb,2014.

Posts: 962 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: So Cal, baby. :)
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 11:19 AM, June 14th (Friday)

She claims that she has blocked out that person from her mind (OM) and therefore she wants to reclaim things/songs and not be about him at all. Is this wrong?

Ok, fine, it's not about him.

I don't like how it triggers me.

The question is why doesn't she care about you?

Honestly not seeing much remorse from her. Sorry brother.


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2686 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 11:39 AM, June 14th (Friday)

She claims that she has blocked out that person from her mind (OM) and therefore she wants to reclaim things/songs and not be about him at all. Is this wrong?

Well whoop-dee-fucking-doo for her. I see a person with no remorse or empathy here. It must be one hell of a skirt if it's worth putting her husband through hell every-time he sees it.

I also see a person here who is gearing up for the "I'm moving forward, you need to put this behind you and just move on" speech. She don't get it.


ETA--sorry but this just pisses me off for you.

[This message edited by wonderboy at 11:39 AM, June 14th (Friday)]


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1272 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 11:58 AM, June 14th (Friday)

2M2Q. You are sane and you aren't making a mountain out of a molehill.

The whole skirt thing is an indication that your WW doesn't really understand what she has done. If you haven't read the 'Dry Adultery' post in Wayward by UO, it might be a helpful read for you.

Yes, the argument could be made that it's *just* an article of clothing and that it shouldn't bother you. However, it IS *just* a skirt....so she should be more than willing to get rid of it. And I don't think that she should be placated with the promise of getting her a new favorite skirt. Don't bargain with her over this issue. Burn the darn thing.

And I agree that it seems that the road you guys are on is leading to "it's in the 'past', get over it."


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7886 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
heartache101
Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 2:46 PM, June 14th (Friday)

I think we all need to see a picture of this hot skirt that means more to her then you!

Have fun shopping this weekend for that new skirt.


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3186 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 2:50 PM, June 14th (Friday)

Buy her this one.

[This message edited by wonderboy at 2:50 PM, June 14th (Friday)]


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1272 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
Rebreather
Member
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 2:55 PM, June 14th (Friday)

My IC straight up told me, "if there is anything in your house that bothers you, upsets you, get rid of it. Priceless artwork or whatever. Make it gone."

That might have been when I decided to drive my car over his blackberry.

Anywho, it's great advice. You cannot take these things back. It's lemon juice in a papercut. The more you pour in, the better is does NOT feel!!


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Recovering.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6353 | Registered: Jan 2011
wert
Member
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 3:09 PM, June 14th (Friday)

2m2q - I broker her phone a USB drive with a hammer, burned some of her clothes, made her gather up every little thing he gave her and smashed them. I went through her closet and drawers and got rid of things that just made me think of it.

She resisted on the first item. I gave her a choice, she can go or the things can. She had lots of chance to leave.

IMO you give your W way too much input. One of the most interesting things my first IC told me about my W's A was that I had the power in the relationship if I just took it. She said, "Wert, you don't realize it now, but if she doesn't want to end it with you, you have an awful lot of power right now."

take care...

It Friday and I need a beer.



Posts: 1427 | Registered: Jan 2012
2cooldaughters
Member
Member # 19408
Default  Posted: 3:11 PM, June 14th (Friday)

It may be because I'm way on the other side (5 years) and my staying around is for the kids only, but, do you not see that she is more concerned with herself (downplaying the sex that probably did happen, re-claiming the skirt for herself, etc.) than she is for you?

Are you willing to disregard your own feelings for her? Do you love her that much? If you do, then you are a hero. If not, you should love yourself enough to draw the line, get some answers, and define her level of remorse and commitment to the "new" marriage.

Sorry bud, it stings I know...I was in your shoes for a long time.


Posts: 68 | Registered: May 2008
wert
Member
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 3:11 PM, June 14th (Friday)

t/j - wonderboy - that is awesome.



Posts: 1427 | Registered: Jan 2012
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 12:32 PM, June 15th (Saturday)

@wonderboy's suggestion....


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7886 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
2married2quit
Member
Member # 36555
Default  Posted: 9:36 AM, June 17th (Monday)

UPDATE:

She said NO. I grabbed several articles of clothing that I wanted out and she refused. Admitted that she doesn't feel anything for me.

So...I can't kick her out because of finances so it's HARD CORE 180!!! and R is interrupted and on hold. I am worth more than that shit.

There's other deep rooted issues that if you knew, it would make sense for her reaction, BUT she HAS to learn the value of people especially her loving husband who was willing to forgive her and take her in.


BS - Me 43 WS - Her 41
DDAY - June 2012 (found the texts)
DDAY2 - Next Day (found out who) EA
TT- till 9/2012 (some PA)
Married 20yrs. 2kids
Status: in careful R. Sometimes spinning our wheels

Posts: 1304 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: USA
Kelany
Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 9:45 AM, June 17th (Monday)

Then she isn't worth it. If clothing is more important to her, if she has no feelings for you, then let her go. You're worth so much more.

FWIW, I didn't give my FWH a choice. I burned his clothes in the driveway. I smashed a watch his LTA gave him and sent it back to her.


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
Rebreather
Member
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 12:05 PM, June 17th (Monday)

Admitted that she doesn't feel anything for me.

This seems to be her go-to phrase here.

Your wife has just told you that a skirt is more important than you. 180 is certainly the right choice, and frankly, even though we are in R forum, I think a lawyer is in order. You are worth so much more than the continued crumbs.


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Recovering.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6353 | Registered: Jan 2011
sisoon
Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 12:16 PM, June 17th (Monday)

Very sorry, 2m2q. I can't imagine how tough it is to have a WS go into and out of remorse willy nilly.

[This message edited by sisoon at 12:17 PM, June 17th (Monday)]


fBH (me) - 70, fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 9947 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
LA44
Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 12:19 PM, June 17th (Monday)

I am so sorry 2m2q. Is there a friend you can stay with?


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2220 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 12:40 PM, June 17th (Monday)

2M2Q - She is manipulating you, and clearly has you convinced that you are "overreacting" to everything that was clear from the first post on this thread.
I understand about being financially strapped and that you two can't afford a D, but Have YOU, gone to a lawyer, and really found this out? Many many many people take whatever crap is handed to them because they believe they can't afford the out. In fact it simply isn't true.

What she is doing to you is crazymaking, and abusive. Stop her. Wert is right. You have the power, so take it. Make your demands for what YOU need for R. If she wants to comply great if not send her away. She is not doing any of the real work of R. She is not remorseful for what she did, rather she is sorry for getting caught.

I too feel you haven't gotten the whole truth as to what she did and didn't do. Have you continued to check up on her, snoop? This behavior has GIANT red flags waving all over the place.

YOU are right, YOU deserve much more, more respect, more love, and more honesty. You can't force her to give it to you, but you can choose to not accept the crumbs she is leaving you.

I'm sorry if this is harsh, I know how bad it hurts. It just makes me angry for you.

((((and strength))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8100 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 1:26 PM, June 17th (Monday)

...and R is interrupted and on hold.

2m2q,

Sadly, you and your WW were never in R.

Since you phrased it "on hold" and this is the R forum, what would it take for you and your WW to be in R and working on the M as opposed to not divorcing?

A common requirement for R is remorse. This means the WS owns her A-related crap, and is genuinely sorry for how they behaved, and wishes to make amends however she can. This is much more than simply blocking the OM out of her mind (that is what we call rug-sweeping).

The WS and BS both have feelings for each other AND respect for each other.

BUT she HAS to learn the value of people especially her loving husband who was willing to forgive her and take her in.

Gently, no she doesn't.

It would be nice if she did, it should be a requirement for R that she does, but she does not have to. There are people who never address their issues and they make it through life (maybe not well) and die with thier personal demons well intact.

There's other deep rooted issues that if you knew, it would make sense for her reaction,...

Then sustained work on these DRIs ought to be another requirement for R.

She has played the game of Remorse On - Remorse Off depending on how it suits her. I suggest that you be very supicious of any future reversal to Remorse On until it has been sustained and clearly is about her working to fix the M and help you heal regardless of your response.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 1:27 PM, June 17th (Monday)]


LTA BS 53
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4109 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Topic Posts: 34