SurvivingInfidelity.com Forums
General
User Topic: beginning 180 of WS - what should I require?
hurtyetstrong
Member
Member # 38372
Default  Posted: 12:00 AM, June 14th (Friday)

WS comes home tomorrow. See post below for the latest drama.

I've decided that I need to 180 him for my emotional sanity. I drafted a document expressing my needs to him - thoughts?

What I need from you:
Full disclosure of everything that happened - who, what, where, when, how. I will give you time to go back and retrieve from your memory bank but realize this is a one-time shot for you to be 100 percent honest. My reaction may be hurt, anger or other emotions I'm not sure. But what I do know is that before I can begin to rebuild trust in you I need to feel confident that you have uncovered all the things you did behind my back.

Full transparency - I need to have full access to your phone, laptop, online accounts. Again this goes back to rebuilding trust.

Remorse- I need you to realize that you broke our marriage vows. Please stop minimizing what a big deal these actions were. I need you to realize that this is a deep wound and will take a while to heal - regardless if we stay together.

When I get these things from you I promise I will commit 100% to working on our marriage. I know I am not perfect and can make improvements. However I am deeply hurt and insecure in regards to our marriage and need you to address the above areas before I can be vulnerable with you (admit my faults, marriage counseling, work on intimacy issues, etc) Until these items are addressed I will be focused on me and the girls and our daily activities.


Me: BW (30)
Him: WH (31)
2 DDs - 4yrs & 2yrs (as of Oct 2014)

multiple PAs

Filed for divorce May 16, 2014
1st court hearing October 23, 2014 (hopefully will be final!!!)


Posts: 156 | Registered: Feb 2013
Getting to Happy
Member
Member # 35200
Default  Posted: 8:34 AM, June 14th (Friday)

Why would you tell him?

Don't warn him, just do it!

If he cannot be nice, loving, transparent on his own, there is nothing you can to to coerce him to do otherwise.

The 180 is for your sanity, not to PassA control him.

HE has to make these changes on his own...the attitude adjustments need to come from within.

Go forward with your 180. Teach him how to treat you with kindness. Reject and ignore anything else.

But if he does not get the lesson that if he continues acting like a douche he will be treated like one. By then you will have detached enough from him that you will no longer care what he does.

Gently~ Your letter is kinda Mommy like. 'Act right and you will get a cookie.' No offense.

Don't give him a cheat sheet that he can forge into a hammer to beat you with.

Just enact the 180. If he becomes alarmed that you are not willing to be compliant while being ignored, berated and cheated on, maybe he will figure out that his actions and attitudes have a consequence.

Either he will realize he is losing you and remedy the situation through words AND actions...or not. There will be your answer.

If he does pull his head out of his arse and does not know how to help you will feel comfortable, he will ask what he can do to make thinks right, THEN you can give him the cheat sheet.

He will beg for it!


WS him
BS me DD's 26, 25' DS 23
dd1 1-1-10, dd2 Mothers Day 2011, dd3 3-12-12 Hawaii trip with ho-worker...

Never forget what is worth remembering or remember what is best forgotten.
Unknown


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: La La Land
Getting to Happy
Member
Member # 35200
Default  Posted: 8:36 AM, June 14th (Friday)

I forgot to add this~

((((hurtyetstrong))))

We know its about to get bumpy on that crappy roller-coaster ride you and he are on...

Hang on and keep posting. We care and we are listening.


WS him
BS me DD's 26, 25' DS 23
dd1 1-1-10, dd2 Mothers Day 2011, dd3 3-12-12 Hawaii trip with ho-worker...

Never forget what is worth remembering or remember what is best forgotten.
Unknown


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: La La Land
windowsnotwalls
Member
Member # 36983
Default  Posted: 8:53 AM, June 14th (Friday)

No, you don't tell him anything you need from him. He's not a factor in your 180.

The 180 is for you. Period. Don't go into it expecting it will cause any reaction from him whatsoever or hopes that you'll gain a better WS out of it.

In my own case, I can honestly say if I'd have written a letter of my needs at the beginning of 180, it'd have been pointless. 180 was very successful for me, and I got to learn so much of myself, things I didn't really see before while he was my total focus. So, the me today would have a totally different list than the me then.

The me today doesn't need a thing from him. I don't need him to be remorseful, don't need him to do anything. I see him as a truly broken person, am not angry with him, have great compassion for him, but let his choices be his choices. The me today is ONLY focused on my own choices and how I can protect myself. I have boundaries, STRONG boundaries, and they're unwavering. I don't question my gut instincts. If it feels off, it is, and my walls are up, without justification. Don't need to justify why. Doesn't matter why. I don't argue the point, don't even bring it up. I just detach. I don't feel safe, simple as that. If he doesn't like that, if he wants to pout, so be it, those are his choices. He also has the choice (as he's finally realizing) to reflect on his own actions and thoughts and see if there's a way he can adjust anything in his own life to create a safer environment for me.

180 helps establish a healthy autonomy between the partners. No longer is it ONE body ONE soul. You begin a path that recognizes a healthy relationship requires TWO healthy people and realize you only have control over one of those people being healthy--you.

All the reports state it takes 3-5 years of BOTH people working on themselves in a healthy way before the healthy coupledom can occur. It's no quick process, but the personal rewards are amazing.

[This message edited by windowsnotwalls at 8:54 AM, June 14th (Friday)]


"She stood in the storm, and when the wind did not blow her way, she adjusted her sails" (Elizabeth Edwards).
http://youtu.be/62oby83NtGw
Forever Conditionally Detached

Posts: 503 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Pittsburgh, PA
Undefinabl3
Member
Member # 36883
Default  Posted: 10:08 AM, June 14th (Friday)

I think the biggest thing you are missing is the time frame. Either internally or telling him.

You need to give me a time line in a week, if I dont have it by X then i am moving forward with the divorce. And then STICK TO IT.

The problem is that a unremorseful WS without a timeline is the energizer bunny, they can keep you going and going and going. You need to stop the cycle by setting a date and keeping it.

Also,

The full transparnecy thing needs to happen RIGHT THEN. I can not stress this enough to you. If he REFUSES to give you transparency right then, than that's really all you need to know that you are dealing with an untrustworthy person and do you really want to be married to someone you can't trust.

If you give him time, he will clean up those emails, warn whatever OW he currently may have, and look like a rose in a shit bucket. This will make you feel very confused and question yourself.

Do.not.give.him.time to clean up that email/laptop/phone/online accounts.

And then, get a keylogger installed ASAP - the way this nut sounds is that he would turn around and get all new accounts so that he can go back to his old ways.


Me: 31 MH
Him: 37 MH
New online find 6/19/14 - shit

Posts: 1767 | Registered: Sep 2012
libertyrocks
Member
Member # 38924
Default  Posted: 10:21 AM, June 14th (Friday)

Yeah, in the nicest possible way, fuck him. :) haha.

That's what I did. I still love him, but fuck him. For the right reasons. Because I love myself more. Because if I don't love myself more, I can't love him. I take a pretty tough stance on 180 (NOW anyways, not at first.) I know I don't need him. I drive around in my truck singing to my music with the window rolled down, thinking I"m awesome and I'm going to do things that make me happy, THINK THINGS THAT MAKE ME HAPPY. He's totally noticing how happy I am and wants a piece of it.

Oh, I was in your shoes for 5 months. He wanted to know I was in R before he gave full disclosure and I was waiting for full disclosure before I started R. We were both waiting for each other. My H was scared if he told me everything at once that I would leave him, that's why he gave me a 5 month TT package. But, it worked. We're in IC/MC and things are going great.

Looking back on my first Dday, it took A LOT of time to get where I'm at now. And, I know I have years and years ahead to really recover.

In the beginning I couldn't do 180. I was too consumed with pain and hate. The storm is finally starting to settly. Good luck, sweetie. We're all here for you.

I begged for a timeframe for months. And, honestly, they are going to tell you when they're ready. I threatened, left, kicked him out, many many times to get full disclosure. I think when we started MC/IC, he decided he wanted to finally tell me everything.

[This message edited by libertyrocks at 10:25 AM, June 14th (Friday)]


Me-BW 36. STBXH-35,Recovering Alcoholic, M6yrs T13. Boys 2 & 4 1/2.
DDay #1 Nov,2012. 1 1/2 year false R & TT. 10 OW PA's 1LTA (W lied to) 3 years.
S Nov, 2013 again Jan,2014
Filed for D Feb,2014.

Posts: 962 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: So Cal, baby. :)
windowsnotwalls
Member
Member # 36983
Default  Posted: 10:32 AM, June 14th (Friday)

I still love him, but fuck him. For the right reasons. Because I love myself more. Because if I don't love myself more, I can't love him.

Absolutely! ....and folks, that is 180.


"She stood in the storm, and when the wind did not blow her way, she adjusted her sails" (Elizabeth Edwards).
http://youtu.be/62oby83NtGw
Forever Conditionally Detached

Posts: 503 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Pittsburgh, PA
Razor
Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 10:48 AM, June 14th (Friday)

You cant FORCE your WH to feel remorse. He either does or he does not. And if he has not felt it yet and expressed it to you it may never happen. Oh you may get something that LOOKS like remorse, but that could just be a ruse to get something from you.

You can tell your WH that IF you are to consider R then you need full disclosure. ALL of it, especially the stuff he thinks you wont want to know about. Its not up to him to decide what you know. Hiding from you what you are being asked to forgive is just manipulation. Either you get it ALL or R is off the table.

You can also tell your WH that IF you are to consider R then you need full transparency from him. No secret email accounts or cell phones. No more lies. No more hiding things from you.

You can also tell your WH that specific behaviors and activities are to END if you are to consider R. No more going out at night. No more lunches and dinners with *friends*. Activities that were used to mask times spent with the AP are to END.

Those are the things you can insist on. The are external actions that can be verified. Remorse and empathy are something he either feels by now, or he never will.

The key to the 180 for me is to give up control. You tell your WS what you need then step back and watch. You dont control or try and force him to do as you ask. You just watch what he does. Those things you asked for are boundaries. And if he does not comply with your requests you dont punish or scream or get angry or shout. You just start moving toward ending your relationship with him.

You see you are giving HIM control. You are telling him clearly what you need. And it is his choice whether or not he wants to do those things for you. If he does not do those things then you know that he does not care for or love you. You then have all that you need to know as to whether or not to stay with him or move on.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.

Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.
Friedrich Nietzsche


Posts: 3483 | Registered: Sep 2007
crazyblindsided
Member
Member # 35215
Default  Posted: 1:33 PM, June 14th (Friday)

The me today doesn't need a thing from him. I don't need him to be remorseful, don't need him to do anything. I see him as a truly broken person, am not angry with him, have great compassion for him, but let his choices be his choices. The me today is ONLY focused on my own choices and how I can protect myself. I have boundaries, STRONG boundaries, and they're unwavering. I don't question my gut instincts. If it feels off, it is, and my walls are up, without justification. Don't need to justify why. Doesn't matter why. I don't argue the point, don't even bring it up. I just detach. I don't feel safe, simple as that. If he doesn't like that, if he wants to pout, so be it, those are his choices. He also has the choice (as he's finally realizing) to reflect on his own actions and thoughts and see if there's a way he can adjust anything in his own life to create a safer environment for me.

This is on the money! It is exactly where I am at in my 180. It works, I definitely got myself back and got a new pair of bitch boots too


BS/FWS (me):40 Madhatter
WS/BS:42 Serial Cheater
Together 18 years, Married 13
DD(10) DS(7)
DDay(s) 5/08, 5/09, 3/30/12
Final Dday 7/11/14 Affair never ended

Posts: 2266 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: California
Topic Posts: 9