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User Topic: Interesting article on Husbands Dampening Wives' Libidos
InnerLight
Member
Member # 19946
Default  Posted: 11:41 AM, June 15th (Saturday)

I read this article and identified with it. In my NB I recovered my sexiness and it made me realize how much I let this go while being in a long marriage. Fortunately while M I developed personal interests, but I did give up at least a good part of my sexiness.

I thought I would share this article, I found it interesting...

Husbands Who Extinguish Their Wives' Libidos
Posted: 02/17/2013 11:35 am
Huffington Post

Modern wives often lose the sensuality of womanhood. They are feminine when they marry but are quickly relegated to the roles of caretaker, wage-earner, housekeeper, and waitress. Burdened with responsibility, fatigue, and what can feel like a monotonous, uneventful grind, many experience a loss of libido and the gradual diminishment of the deep yearning of youth. They exist but are not fully alive. They live up to their responsibilities but fear that every day will present the same, uneventful grind. After a while they are no longer women but wives, no longer females but mothers.

Paradoxically, the grand extinguisher, often, is the wife's own husband. Financial instability, moral uncertainty, consumerism, and shifts in the essence of masculinity have led husbands to exchange the untamed sensuality of a woman for the predictable safety of a functional wife. In an attempt to maintain control over an uncontrollable world, the husband's need for order, routine and a sense of competence has been displaced onto his wife and he has reduced and contained her in an attempt to forestall his fear of confusion and inferiority. The result is a wife who meets his basic functional needs, but whom he may find uninteresting.

The wife is trapped in a double bind. If she acquiesces to what her husband wants of her, she becomes boring to him and a shell of her true self. There is little room for her to express her authentic sensuality or self-actualize. Why pursue beauty? Why pursue wit, insight, creativity, personal sensuality? Is she forced to choose between marriage and selfhood?

The individual psyche of the woman is particularly important to her expression of sensuality. To be desirable, she must be separate from her husband. She must have a sense of herself. She must know, at a visceral level, the presence and power of her beauty. Too much familiarity and functionality, undermines her sensual nature. A woman wants to be wanted, longed for, and lusted after.

In my counseling of married couples, I have seen this phenomenon at work. What often robs a marriage of erotic longing is a husband's subconscious desire to transform his wife from a woman into a homemaker and from a seductress into a nanny (without the sexy nanny outfit). I say subconscious because most husbands would vehemently protest that, to the contrary, they want their wives to be sultry and sexy. But irrespective of what they say, they end up turning turn their wives into housekeepers.

Why would any sane man sexually extinguish his wife?

Because buried deep within the male psyche is the fear of not being able to fully possess his wife, not being able to control her natural attraction to other men, and not being able to snuff out a woman's sexual insatiability. A husband's greatest fear is that as a man he will not be able to measure up, sometimes quite literally. This is especially true once men confront the sheer erotic power and multi-climactic nature of the female libido which is so much more potent than a man's. By domesticating her, he robs her of her passion. He may now possess her without much effort because she is diminished. By slowly extinguishing his wife's libido and making sex into a once-a-week encounter lasting seven minutes at a time (the American national average) he gains proprietary rights to her body even as he guarantees that she will never excite him as much as an illicit love.

How tragic that the modern American male has little clue as to the consequences of his actions. Does he realize that by failing to compliment his wife he teaches her to think she is not special? Is he aware of the fact that by failing to go shopping with her for beautiful clothing he makes her feel she is not worth the effort? And is there no friend who can tell him that sex without foreplay ensures that her body will go through the motions but will never come alive with real sexual lust?

And why doesn't he see all these things himself? Because he cannot look past his own insecurity. He does not realize that he is uncomfortable being in a relationship that will really challenge his masculinity. He looks for challenges at work on and the sports field. But at home he looks for nirvana and bliss. A compliant wife will provide it. A seductress will not.

The sexually insatiable woman generates excitement for her husband, but excitement that is always accompanied by the pain and panic of incurable tension. His comfort zone is gone. He must now permanently pursue her, woo her, and compete against paramours even after he is married. Sexual tension may get a husband's engines revving, but it can also make him feel as though the floor is collapsing beneath him. He spends his days trying to impress his boss, does he have to spend the night impressing his wife as well? Give the man some peace! Did he not get married so he could enjoy a tranquil domestic existence? Why should he have to put on a show at home, too?

If he sees his wife as a woman who could get another man in a heartbeat, not only does he have to worry about keeping her as his woman, but also that there's a possibility that he is not up to the job. And this he fears more than walking a tight rope over the Grand Canyon. To get out of feeling inept and inadequate, and more importantly, to stay in control, he subconsciously and systematically douses the embers of her sexuality.

Being married to a seductress means that he will forever be at war to retain her fidelity. As a man begins to recognize how his wife, like all women, is desirable to, and desirous of, other men, and that attraction increases commensurately with the degree to which she feels unappreciated or ignored, he will be shaken with feelings of inadequacy and anxiety.

Men are naturally competitive. They don't want to have to compete for a woman they've already won. Sure, they want the erotic thrills that come from seduction and pursuit. But they also want to know, now that they're married, that they have a comfortable, safe haven to come back to. So they want to know that their wives are not attracted to strangers or attractive to strangers, at least not in a way that's in any way unsettling. Also, if they want to pursue their own erotic thrills by finding women outside of the marriage, they don't want to feel that their neglect of their wives will lead their wives to pursue other men in order to satisfy their own erotic needs. Much better, therefore, to subtly and even subconsciously extinguish her sexuality.

What ensues is the boring domestication that most married couples suffer. Two people who live in the same house, share a life, share kids, have perfunctory sex, but never make love. Two people who are married but never generate true erotic friction.

Shmuley Boteach, "America's Rabbi," whom the Washington Post calls "the most famous Rabbi in America," has just published his newest bestseller, The Fed-up Man of Faith: Challenging God in the Face of Tragedy and Suffering. Follow him on Twitter @RabbiShmuley.


BS, age 53, d-day 6-2-08, divorced after 17 years and 20 together. dating again, living in the sticks with a cat. It's taking a long time to create new dreams and a new life but it is slowly coming together.

Posts: 5738 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Rural California
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 11:56 AM, June 15th (Saturday)

I love Rabbi Shmuley. I don't always agree with everything he says, but for the most part, I feel he is spot on. He understands women a lot more than most, that is for sure.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9423 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
caregiver9000
Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 11:57 AM, June 15th (Saturday)

Thank you for sharing. I also have enjoyed rediscovering myself in NB. Part of that has been making ME a priority and doing such things as pampering myself and buying pretty clothes... AND THEN WEARING them.


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 13 DS 10
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5617 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
aLadypilot
Member
Member # 1822
Default  Posted: 12:01 PM, June 15th (Saturday)

I definitely lived this in my marriage. I'm not even sure how to NOT repeat this with my fiance.

It's nothing that we (my fiance and I) are consciously doing. But since I've met him, I've gained 20 pounds and feel like I've lost some of my zest. He hasn't complained about anything (bless him!), but I feel like I pulled the old 'bait and switch'.

[This message edited by aLadypilot at 12:03 PM, June 15th (Saturday)]


Divorced 9/2010
Just married 7/4/13

Posts: 4081 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Twin Cities
Nature_Girl
Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 12:47 PM, June 15th (Saturday)

One of the things I've enjoyed since removing STBX from my daily existence is waking up the woman inside me.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9318 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
wildbananas
Member
Member # 10552
Default  Posted: 1:10 PM, June 15th (Saturday)

This is really interesting, IL... thank you for sharing.

I see a lot of my M and relationship with XSO in here. It's hard to feel sexy when you're juggling babies and work and the house and bills and other family obligations and such. It's so easy to get lost in that shuffle.

I too have rediscovered my sensual side but now I have no one to share it with. I make a lot of jokes about it but it does make me somewhat sad to have found it and now, I have no one to share it with, you know? Of course, I like having it for me because it's authentic and it's who I am but the flip side of that is having a partner to share it with. But then we come back to possibly losing it again in everyday life.

So 'round it goes. I don't know to reconcile it all. Maybe it's easier to do when you go into a relationship aware of it. Lord knows I didn't even think of things like this when I married at barely 20.


Travel light, live light, spread the light, be the light. ~ Yogi Bhajan

Posts: 15363 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: Now an AZ girl
Kajem
Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 1:38 PM, June 15th (Saturday)

^^^^^^What wildbananas said.

I hope realizing this will cause me not to repeat it in my next relationship.


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4863 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
inconnu
Member
Member # 24518
Default  Posted: 4:14 PM, June 15th (Saturday)

This is an interesting read. I can look back and see that this happened in my marriage. I also think that it wasn't entirely ex's fault. I let my issues and lack of self-confidence undermine my sensuality, too.


Say what you wanna say and let the words fall out...honestly
I wanna see you be brave

Pretty pretty please, don't you ever ever feel
Like you're less than, less than perfect


Posts: 12124 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: TX
PhoenixRisen
Member
Member # 35912
Default  Posted: 4:42 PM, June 15th (Saturday)

Makes a lot of sense
But not sure if the husbands targeted in the article are purposely turning their wives into hausfraus to prevent male competition but more likely because it saves them having to do all the hard work themselves!

I love NB because with shared custody I actually get to shower EVERY DAY!!! do my makeup and wear cute clothes again. During M I was lucky if I could shower every other day as my morning were frantic getting the kids dressed, feed, ready for school/daycare, getting lunches packed, mapping out dinner, cleaning up the kitchen, and starting laundry...while ex poured his coffee & headed out the door to work.. then I had to drop the kids off at school before work... after work it was solely me who had to pick them up, shop for groceries, & have have dinner on the table as he walked in. (and ex and I had similar jobs/salaries).
Great life!
for him.

Honestly, made me want a hausfrau myself.

Instead I just got rid of the husband :)
(though he was also an abusive NPD and serial cheater... not just a guy shirking housework)


Posts: 474 | Registered: Jun 2012
OnceInALifetime
Member
Member # 26023
Default  Posted: 4:54 PM, June 15th (Saturday)

Wow, I've never read an article so chock full of gross generalities.

So husbands are responsible for deadening their wives' "untamed sensuality?" I have little doubt that many husbands would say the same thing about their wives. Almost sounds like the crap explanations you hear for affairs.


BH, now divorced

Posts: 3012 | Registered: Oct 2009
downunder
Member
Member # 16631
Default  Posted: 5:17 PM, June 15th (Saturday)

I'm a female and I found the article to be spot on. And I really don't think you need a SO to feel sexy. If anything I can feel my SO dragging me down that path again. He is 'tired of dating' and wants to 'settle down'. In other words he wants to get comfortable so no more effort required. That's not what I want.




Posts: 609 | Registered: Oct 2007
stilllovingher
Member
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 5:51 PM, June 15th (Saturday)

OIAL,
Schmooly's already covered any male rebuttal, it was something about not being able to see past our own something or other...can't remember clearly cuz I got too drunk with all this power I have over SLHim's untamed sexuality.


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2401 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
gma56
Member
Member # 19595
Default  Posted: 6:12 PM, June 15th (Saturday)

I think there is truth to this article. I was one of those wives but I also was married to a NPD.

I worked full time, handled all domestic chores and the kids. FT wouldn't even mow the lawn or pick up his dirty clothes.

I envied women that had husbands that would help in the house, with kids, and didn't need to be asked. They actually worked as a team.
I finally couldn't do it all any longer and it was shortly after that FT started looking for a replacement. Health problems didn't stop him.


BW-Divorced
It's my life now, my choices, my mistakes to make and my victories to celebrate. His choices made me free of liars and betrayers in my life. I lost my family but gained a second chance to be happy.

Posts: 20323 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Half way to where I want to be.
Sad in AZ
Member
Member # 24239
Default  Posted: 6:19 PM, June 15th (Saturday)

Interesting; but this was definitely not the case in my life with the X.


I solemnly swear that I am up to no good.

Posts: 19817 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Upstate NY
tryingagain74
Member
Member # 33698
Default  Posted: 8:44 PM, June 15th (Saturday)

I take responsibility for my behavior in the M. This article, however, really speaks to what my marital situation was. It is very hard to feel sexy when you feel more like a work horse than a wife. If I bought something nice for myself, the receipt and price would be scrutinized; I was lucky if I got a compliment when wearing it. And foreplay? What's that? And believe me-- we'd talk about these things, life might improve for a little while, and then we were back to the same old rut.

I don't think that it's a generalization of all men-- it just talks about certain men who behave in a way that extinguishes their wives' libidos. And while I was feeling asexual in the marriage, largely because of the dynamic in my marriage, I didn't run off to rediscover my sexual self with an AP-- STBX did.

I feel much more feminine and attractive in my NB. I don't think that's a coincidence.


BS (Me) 39
Happily liberated!
Two DS and One DD
It matters not how strait the gate,/How charged with punishments the scroll./I am the master of my fate:/I am the captain of my soul.--"Invictus," William Ernest Henley

Posts: 3546 | Registered: Oct 2011
Nature_Girl
Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 8:52 PM, June 15th (Saturday)

OIAL, my STBX would deliberately ignore me when I gussied up. If I asked him for a compliment he would refuse because it was what I wanted. When my interests conflicted with his, he always won out. My interests were extinguished because they weren't worth his mantrums. The things that mattered to me were either ignored, put down, or only mildly noticed lest I get a big head. And as for sex? What I wanted was NOT up for consideration. ONLY what he wanted, when he wanted, was do-able. Any preference I expressed was met with ridicule and anger at being told what to do.

Before STBX I was a tiger in the bedroom. Loved sex, loved men's bodies, loved it all. Now? My libido is so deeply buried I don't know if it can be resurrected. I don't even think like that now. I'm just pleased with myself that I have the freedom to wear pink & perfume. Make-up and something sparkly. I can wear pretty things and not worry if I'll be noticed or not. I can just be me.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9318 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
Chrysalis123
Member
Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 9:28 PM, June 15th (Saturday)

I know if I ever have a SO again I will NOT fulfill the role of house-servant and cook. That will be shared.

It will be shared because I have a full-time job as well. I have learned since divorce that my life only got easier once I unloaded NPD-x's demands.

I will not do that to myself again.

Side benefit....I get to be the sexy, beautiful woman I was destined to be.


Donít get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well.†

Posts: 2609 | Registered: Jan 2010
wildbananas
Member
Member # 10552
Default  Posted: 9:31 PM, June 15th (Saturday)

I don't think that it's a generalization of all men-- it just talks about certain men who behave in a way that extinguishes their wives' libidos. And while I was feeling asexual in the marriage, largely because of the dynamic in my marriage, I didn't run off to rediscover my sexual self with an AP-- STBX did.

^^ This. I don't think all men do this, not by a long shot. I can only speak to my situation, where it was the case. Of course, infidelity shades this as well. For example, ex-asshat went between chasing me around for sex while either pouting or demanding; sanctimoniously cutting me off because "it wasn't right" for us to have sex while he was deciding between me and OW ( ), or following me around and telling me that any guy could just look at me and tell I'd be "the best lay they'd ever have." So. Not. Okay.

All my t/jish ex-asshat ranting aside, I was pondering this earlier... guys, do you ever feel this way on your side? Like maybe us wimmenz somehow, I don't know, undermine your masculine role at times and it affects how you feel?


Travel light, live light, spread the light, be the light. ~ Yogi Bhajan

Posts: 15363 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: Now an AZ girl
stilllovingher
Member
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 9:40 PM, June 15th (Saturday)

" mantrums"
thank you for that! I'm using it on my brother !

I am positive that schuley's situation above DOES exist, what bothered me, and possibly OIAL, was the way it was written came across as if this was "par for course" for most if not all men(you know, unless you happen to already live by schmuley's guide).

There are other aspects of this article that, if posted in any of the upper forums, would be torn apart by the SI masses in a hot second as blameshifting/excusing/entitlement/ whathaveyou.
I won't point them out, they are fairly obvious.

but, like I said, I'm sure this situation does play out in some households, especially where there is NPD or other controlling personality flaws. But it seems like that would be the exception rather than the rule, which isn't how its portrayed in this article.


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2401 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
inconnu
Member
Member # 24518
Default  Posted: 9:42 PM, June 15th (Saturday)

You know, we have some pretty terrific guys on SI. I think, though, they (cough*OIAL*cough) don't always realize that they are truly that far above the bar, compared to the guys that brought a lot of us women to SI.



Say what you wanna say and let the words fall out...honestly
I wanna see you be brave

Pretty pretty please, don't you ever ever feel
Like you're less than, less than perfect


Posts: 12124 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: TX
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 9:51 PM, June 15th (Saturday)

we have some pretty terrific guys on SI. I think, though, they (cough*OIAL*cough) don't always realize that they are truly that far above the bar, compared to the guys that brought a lot of us women to SI.
inconnu, nailed it exactly! Really, the BH's here are extraordinary men. So, why did all these extraordinary men and all the wonderful BW's here not find each other and instead found people who would betray us? *shaking head* One of those great cosmic questions that will never be answered I imagine.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9423 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
Nature_Girl
Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 10:06 PM, June 15th (Saturday)

You know, we have some pretty terrific guys on SI. I think, though, they (cough*OIAL*cough) don't always realize that they are truly that far above the bar, compared to the guys that brought a lot of us women to SI.

The same thought occurs to me as well.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9318 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
jjct
Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 11:14 PM, June 15th (Saturday)

Believe me, the reverse is true too. In the deep dark silences of introspective mapping - the what if's - few of us have escaped wondering; "If I'd only met you."
True story. I proposed to a whole thread once.

I'm that bad.

The Rabbi is a bit abrasive, as slh pointed out @ oial's catch of his generalizations. I particularly enjoyed slh's nailing the dear Rabbi's DON'T ARGUE WITH ME I'M RIGHT argument to the contrary. Since I'm, you know, contrary.

The point is, it made you think about the lather rinse repeat in our own individual lives, and you'll not stand your man not doing dishes next time by god sexy self.
& made you think...how do I do that?

That's introspection. That's good. It's a quality too many sadly lack to our...ok, sadness.

Dear Rabbi,
I have never lived in fear that my wife would stray. I have been married. Two times. BOTH strayed.
I can see how you might think I'm jaded saying this, but no, I'm better with the help of the dearest friends I have met and have yet to meet (SIers who have not been to gtgs)

Tell you what Rabbi. I'magonna post this puppy up on SI under a female name in general. I'm not gonna invite you. Can't stand the sight of blood and guts.

Because you've caused some of us to introspect, I respect.
Well, maybe not. Because I've been told I can only experience lust, rage, and what was that other thing? Victory? Conquest?

I just want to repeat dear Rabbi, I never lived in fear.
Even after two times I ain't a scaredy guy. I'm just out of the batter's box after two strikes. If your writing helped only one or two of my wounded sisters on here to find some part of themselves, I thank you.

Awaiting your next article.
On how you're an adulterer.
I'm sure you'll understand.
Kindly,
jj


Posts: 6432 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
SBB
Member
Member # 35229
Default  Posted: 12:10 AM, June 16th (Sunday)

I didn't stop feeling raunchy when real life kicked in. There's nothing like hot monkey sex after a hard day.

I stopped feeling raunchy when I started numbing and dumbing myself down to keep the peace in my M. When I stopped loving myself by tolerating disrespect.

He encouraged me to spend time with my friends but would then punish me for it in subtle ways afterwards.

I would refuse to tolerate a particular behaviour and he would acquiesce but would then punish me for it in subtle ways afterwards.

He would begrudgingly spend time with the family after agreeing that he was not participating in our family but would then punish me for it in subtle ways afterwards.

Anyone else seeing a pattern here?

I was emotionally abused for many years. It was so subtle even though I felt it I could not see it so doubted my perception. I spent years convincing myself it really wasn't as bad as it felt. It was. It really was.

I remember telling my girlfriends that sex was so bad I did what I had never done and what I had always vowed I would never do. I faked it most time for pretty much the last 3 years of that M.

I am a very sexual person with a very high libido. It all but disappeared for those years. We still had sexual contact maybe 4 times a week and I initiated it most of the time. I was desperately trying to get it back. All to no avail.

I remember telling my girlfriends that I was scared that it was gone for good. I talked to my Dr about it, I tried all sorts of things. It got so bad I didn't even touch myself anymore.

I am happy to report that now that I'm not being emotionally abused and am no longer lying to myself my mojo is back....big time.

I've seen a few episodes of Shalom in the Home. The advice about reconnecting is right but its not rocket science. I guess it proves the adage that common sense is not at all common.


Buzz- The word you are searching for is 'Space-Ranger.'
Woody- The word I'm searching for, I can't say, because there are Pre-school toys here.

Posts: 5455 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Australia
Bluebird26
Member
Member # 36445
Default  Posted: 6:49 AM, June 16th (Sunday)

TFS, very interesting article.


"Loving someone should not mean losing you. Love empowers you. It shouldn't erase you. - Thelma Davis.

Posts: 1286 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: Australia
OnceInALifetime
Member
Member # 26023
Default  Posted: 11:42 AM, June 16th (Sunday)

StillLovingHer expressed it well. Shmuley's tone suggests that he is describing the norm.

I should have prefaced my remarks with a disclaimer. I've heard the stuff he's saying, directed at me from the XW. She had the online alias "bored housewife." According to XW, I sucked all the joy out of her life, and she told me she faked all her orgasms. This was her stated reason for cheating.

I'll be the first to admit I'm no virtuoso between the sheets. I was guilty of being static and unimaginative. Then again, it was hard to compete with the dozens of younger, freshly discovered bodies she was laying with, especially considering I didn't even know about them.

If Shmuley were accused of being an OM (and judging solely from that article, it wouldn't surprise me), I'd be disqualified as a juror when I showed up with a sack of stones.

Silly me, I thought sex was best as an expression of love. I didn't realize I was also supposed to remain an adventurous horndog for 20 years.

On those rare occasions when I *would* get a little raunchy, it made XW uncomfortable and she wouldn't have it, so I felt dirty and stupid. Hmm, sense a pattern here? Maybe instead of targeting men as a bunch of emotional imbeciles, Shmuley might have recognized that women are just as capable of cutting a man's libido clean off.

Funny thing, in response to XW telling me I sucked the joy right out of her life, I told her that if that were true, we must not be right for each other, and we should get divorced. This was before I discovered the full extent of her cheating. The fog burned off real fast then, and she came back saying that she has a terrible way of blaming me for all the unhappiness in her life, and begged me to not leave her. Hmm.

Who in hell wants "insatiable?" By definition, that's someone who can never be satisfied. Um, no thanks. I've been there. Shmuley can have my XW, see if he can satiate her.

I think Shmuley was off target. I submit that the real reason we betrayed spouses felt de-sexualized was because our partners stopped loving us, and the other behaviors (not so interested in sex with us, e.g.), were symptoms of that lack of love. It was also unfortunate that he generalized so broadly as to make this poor treatment a male-only shortcoming.

[This message edited by OnceInALifetime at 12:19 PM, June 16th (Sunday)]


BH, now divorced

Posts: 3012 | Registered: Oct 2009
InnerLight
Member
Member # 19946
Default  Posted: 6:03 PM, June 16th (Sunday)

I can see now that this article would be offensive to many decent men. When I first read it I just identified with it and didn't think of that.

I don't know how a person stays sexy in the context of a long marriage either, just seeing eachother in a familiar light through thick and thin, and all the practical boring details of sharing a home and a family and a life and dreams.

Sometimes it's just gratifying to read an article that reminds you that it was not all your fault.

And at times I have to remind myself of my own responsible part in the mess. Like why I married someone who never told me I looked beautiful.

I'm sure another article could be written that the men would identify with and then the women on the board would feel dismayed. An article about how women turn their husbands into children by taking charge of everything and managing so well which would only make a woman cranky and tired and then critical at which point the men would give up and the wives would point out the husbands lack of initiative.

Yes I'm sure an equally annoying / supportive of one gender article could be written.

Sorry if posting this article offended decent, faithful husbands on the board. This was not meant to be directed at you.



BS, age 53, d-day 6-2-08, divorced after 17 years and 20 together. dating again, living in the sticks with a cat. It's taking a long time to create new dreams and a new life but it is slowly coming together.

Posts: 5738 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Rural California
stilllovingher
Member
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 8:05 PM, June 16th (Sunday)

I'm not offended

truth be told, I find that the "shared life" is sexy as hell! Seeing my W being a mom/wife, or doing those mostly thankless "jobs" that moms/wives do...and then remembering suddenly the this woman is not just my wife, or just a mom, but her own individual woman, with an entire world inside her that I only get brief glimpses of,...well, that's sexy as fuck!!!
whenever I hear or read about how all the "mystery" is gone from someone's relationship, that they know everything about their partner, I think to myself "this person has no clue what they're talking about".
Its really a very self centered thing to say.
I think of SLHim, and all the shit I DONT know about her.
Sure, I've heard her many of the same stories more than once, and at times it seems we have no stories left to tell, but there is so much more to a person than the stories they tell.

not really what this thread is about, but, oh well, that's what came out


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2401 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
OnceInALifetime
Member
Member # 26023
Default  Posted: 10:39 PM, June 16th (Sunday)

I kind of went into orbit there. Guess that article flipped some triggers for me.

I'm sure it reads true for many relationships, but I don't think it's gender specific. Control issues can become a problem for either gender, but the real issue is lack of compassion.

Some member's tagline here at SI is (or was) something like "there's nothing sexier than fidelity." For me, that rang so true. The thought that this woman has devoted herself to me turned me on no end. That's why it hurt so damn much. And that's what we can all relate to.


BH, now divorced

Posts: 3012 | Registered: Oct 2009
Sad in AZ
Member
Member # 24239
Default  Posted: 10:52 PM, June 16th (Sunday)

Long-term marriages have their ups and downs, ins and outs. That is the nature of the beast. I don't know that any long-term relationship can sustain the glow of love let alone a blast furnace of passion without any low points.

A responsible partner would recognize this and not panic when the ebbs occur. They may not be happy about it, but they would understand that the passion can (and most likely will) come back.

Sadly, this was not the problem in my relationship. We were actually on an upswing in our cycle. The kid was grown and didn't need us very much. The X was nearing his second retirement and we were looking for a place to retire (semi-retire). My career was in a comfortable place. Life was good--until it wasn't any longer. The reasons have nothing to do with this article.


I solemnly swear that I am up to no good.

Posts: 19817 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Upstate NY
stronger08
Member
Member # 16953
Default  Posted: 5:09 AM, June 17th (Monday)

In general these things happen. Couples do get too comfortable and routine with each other. And I can understand the principle of what he is talking about. But it does work both ways. I have come to realize that my XWW was one of those women who loved falling in love. She loves the attention and romance it brings. Even if its all a bullshit lie. She simply can not get enough of it. She has had around 10 relationships since our split. Rarely lasting over 6 months. Usually that's the time comfort sets in and the chase dwindles. I personally think this was and is her motive for cheating. Sex is just a trade off for the thrill of the chase. So she took this principle to the extreme.

On the other side of the coin. Men also see change in their wives desire in them. Women who used to flirt with and entice their husbands change also. They take for granted the fact that men also like to be chased and romanced. What starts out as an incredibly hot and heavy relationships simply wanes on the woman's part. They no longer make themselves attractive for their husbands. Hair, make up and sexy clothes go by the wayside. They come to bed looking like a guy. Oversized tee shirts and sweats. Old lady panties etc. IDK about the rest of the guys here but that's not a turn on for me either. And I do understand that they cant be looking their best all the time. Its hard on both partners to find the time to romance each other. But once another guy shows some interest. The hair and make up is back. The sexy dressing starts all over again. New undergarments are purchased etc. You see it here all the time. One big red flag is a sudden change in appearance.

For me I think both sexes are guilty of doing this. One big complaint my XWW always had was my appearance around her. And I have to admit she was right about that. I went to work dressed to the nines. I had nice suits, shirts, shoes and ties. I took pride in my work appearance. But on the weekends it was all jeans, sweats and ratty sneakers. I had a great Aunt and Uncle who were M over 50 years. They were that type of couple who always looked good together. Even in their elder years they looked great. You could tell that after all those years they were still in love. At their 50th anniversary party my uncle gave a speech. In it he referred to my aunt as "my Anna" he said the secret to their long M was to never take the other for granted. To treat every day you spend with your spouse like your first date. They then danced and did not take their eyes off of each other for the entire time. Even with hundreds of family members yelling and clapping for them. They just started into the others eyes the whole time. Nothing else in the world mattered to them at that moment. It was very heart warming. They were M for 63 years when my aunt took ill and passed. My uncle who was the picture of health soon followed. We all said he wanted to be with his Anna. One thing I have learned from all of this infidelity crap is to never again take another for granted.


You cant eat soup with chopsticks.

Posts: 5570 | Registered: Nov 2007
SBB
Member
Member # 35229
Default  Posted: 5:21 AM, June 17th (Monday)

Stronger, you make some very good and valid points. For one you described exactly what I did in the last few years of that M (except for the WW part).

The thing is he had detached from me and our family well before I got to that point. Back when I was still madly flirty/attentive and very very INTO my husband.

We can cherish and nurture our relationships all we like - if its the 'in love' phase they're after nobody can sustain that 24/7 for very long let alone long term. It ebbs and flows. Its is during the ebbs that a 'healthy' couple work harder on their relationship with each other, with themselves and with the people around them.

I am offended by Schmuley's view that women cheat because they are neglected. That is a croc of horseshit. I was badly neglected for 5 years. I went to the sweat pants/unwashed hair for the last 3 years.

Those around me saw it was a cry for help but I shut them out when they asked if I was OK.

I dressed up for work and for outings but at home I just wanted to disappear so as to not poke the bear. I, the extrovert, became a recluse in my own home. I did not cheat.

What I have learned is that I'll never take myself for granted again. Never. I'll never fall for a love bombing love addict again.

I've learned that I was a very very good wife who married a very very damaged and broken man. I settled for less because I loved the way he loved me. I overlooked a lot because I loved the way he loved me. I took myself for granted.


Buzz- The word you are searching for is 'Space-Ranger.'
Woody- The word I'm searching for, I can't say, because there are Pre-school toys here.

Posts: 5455 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Australia
velveteer
Member
Member # 30997
Default  Posted: 10:11 AM, June 17th (Monday)

This is part of WXW's justification routine - specially the part about it being all my fault. The truth is I never wanted a caretaker, waitress or wife (yes, wife). I wanted a woman. Period. The Rabbi would no doubt counter this with a lack of awareness of my subconscious self and my unwittingly confirming to these stereotypes.

I'm not so sure. In my M, WXW had a big hand in taking herself down this road. She 'put away' her former self to become the world's greatest mother. It was what she had always wanted in her life more than anything else. A termination in her 20s fuelled her internal pain and drive to be a mother.

Fair enough. I was very happy to have kids, but never had the drive that she did to do so. Same with marriage actually.

What I know I didn't want was for my wife to suppress her sexuality in favour of being a wife and mother. I really didn't. I wasn't worried about not being able to keep my wife - I had trust and love.

She had some health issue too that didn't help, but it was her that launched into being a mum - quit work and did nothing but be a mother, pushing me into the role of sole breadwinner - one that I accepted but always voiced my concerns about.

I also didn't do the things in here that this article suggests. I didn't ignore her or turn her into my ideal wife/ mother figure. I have a long standing aversion to that kind of family model. It's not what I grew up with (although WXW did).

Instead I tried to face it with her. She closed it down every time. Couldn't face it. My sex life with my wife had become moribund and she wouldn't discuss it. I bought her the clothes, complemented her, took her out etc etc. Didn't work. It got to the point where she struggled to have sex with the kids in the house asleep. I lost heart. I became depressed. We failed to communicate.

Then she had an affair and it was ALL MY FAULT. It was because I was depressed. It was because I was working too hard. It was because, because.....

This is why I find this article to be a generalisation with a somewhat blaming tone. It is not always just down to the husband's actions conscious or not (and I find this whole subconscious argument something of a cop out - easy to say it's all subconscious when proof is not readily available). Sometimes the wife actually contributes to these things too. I;m not saying I didn't play a role - far from it - it's just not as simple as defaulting to well worn cliches about man's natural competitiveness and ego. We're only a short hop away from those spurious arguments about man's natural need to procreate as widely as possible - the one's that we have all heard as the worst kind of bullshit justification for infidelity. That procreative need for man to distribute his genes as widely as possible is also, incidentally, a subconscious drive.

Just saying.


Divorced

Posts: 861 | Registered: Jan 2011
Crescita
Member
Member # 32616
Default  Posted: 11:24 AM, June 17th (Monday)

In general these things happen. Couples do get too comfortable and routine with each other. And I can understand the principle of what he is talking about. But it does work both ways.

Sometimes the wife actually contributes to these things too.

Very interesting. I was reading this and seeing myself with my current SO, but I kept thinking itís not him doing this itís me. Ever since I moved in with him 2 months ago I flipped this switch to homemaker and Iím struggling to get back to normal. Will definitely have to make more of an intention to take care of myself.


Posts: 3278 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: The Valley of the Sun
wildbananas
Member
Member # 10552
Default  Posted: 11:42 AM, June 17th (Monday)

Couples do get too comfortable and routine with each other. And I can understand the principle of what he is talking about. But it does work both ways.

I absolutely believe this... it goes both ways.

I loved the story about your aunt and uncle, stronger. It seems like they definitely got it right.


Travel light, live light, spread the light, be the light. ~ Yogi Bhajan

Posts: 15363 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: Now an AZ girl
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 12:02 PM, June 17th (Monday)

It was very heart warming. They were M for 63 years when my aunt took ill and passed. My uncle who was the picture of health soon followed. We all said he wanted to be with his Anna. One thing I have learned from all of this infidelity crap is to never again take another for granted.
Awww, shit, stronger, you made me cry!


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9423 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
million pieces
Member
Member # 27539
Default  Posted: 12:11 PM, June 17th (Monday)

I will admit to a complete loss of my sex drive with my ex. And I had a much bigger one than he did at the beginning. Through my IC and the many books I've read, I think my reasons were very different than this article.

#1 reason, I became a SAHM and started slowly taking over household stuff. As he worked more, I did more. Until I was doing 99.9% of the house and yard. He still helped w the kids if he wasn't working on a project. Then I was expected to start taking care of him. He morphed into this other kid that I had. It is NOT sexy to be with someone that did nothing for themselves. And you know the drill, I would get pissy ask him to help and he would huff and do it half assed. And then next time I wouldn't ask, get pissy and he would finally ask what was wrong and then I would tell him and he would say, "you just had to tell me what to do."

As this went on and I suppressed my anger/frustration and most importantly my lack of respect, other emotions got suppressed too. This isn't uncommon w women evidently. From what I've learned is that average guy can still have sexy feelings when suppressing bad feelings.

So I really don't think it was being a "mom" to my kids that made me feel unsexy, but being a "mom" to my husband is what killed it. I wanted a partner, not another large child.

And let me tell you, my sex drive has recovered and then some!


Me - 42
2 kids, 9 and 11
D-Day 2/5/10, separated 3 wks later
Divorced 11/15/11!!!!

Posts: 1232 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: MD
loveisareddress
Member
Member # 36474
Default  Posted: 12:39 PM, June 17th (Monday)

I believe sometimes they do it on purpose.

They might do it out of fear of failure, looking to create excuses for straying or maybe some of them are just flat out control freaks.

Some men are so controlling that they will finish right before you can because they even want to control that!

Or they claim they're trying to fix their ED problem, but don't take the meds or cut them in half thus ensuring they retain control over their response or lack thereof.

Or they might hurt you a little bit while you're having sex-not enough to make an issue out of it-just enough to make you not want it anymore.

When a woman realizes a man is over controlling and going to such extremes to maintain control, it will destroy her libido, mess with her head and make her absolutely hate him.


Scorched earth-Like Peter the Great, he burns up his own territory in order to gain the upper hand while his own people suffer.

I don't need you to be happy. I just need you to leave me alone when I am.


Posts: 442 | Registered: Aug 2012
thegooddokta
Member
Member # 35641
Default  Posted: 12:17 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

"So I really don't think it was being a "mom" to my kids that made me feel unsexy, but being a "mom" to my husband is what killed it. I wanted a partner, not another large child."

I COMPLETELY identify with this. I think that when my WH/BH started sexting with all the pretty young nurses at the hospital, he had already stopped looking at me as his wife and lover, but rather his mother. I had often said in frustration " I am not your mother, when you do something to contribute to this house its not 'helping me'!". Eventually when I had my own A, if came to recognize that it offered me an escape from being everyone's mother. Unfortunately I acted out, instead of taking care of myself and redirecting my needs in a healthier way. The dynamics in my marriage weren't good, and in retrospect, were unlikely to get better. I can only hope that in the future, I do not allow myself or my partner to fall into the trappings of this article. Sadly, it rang true for me and had catastrophic outcomes. I take the blame.


Me- BW 43
Him- WH 35
1stDday Dday 4-19-12
Married 9 yrs
Divorce sched for June 2013
2 kids 5 & 8

W/H-currently has a new girlfriend. We are still living in same house.


Posts: 118 | Registered: May 2012 | From: CT
gardenparty
Member
Member # 12050
Default  Posted: 7:33 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

Funny but I thought marriage was doing what you could to make the life of the other person better and easier. I never minded the housework, the kids or anything like that. I thought my EX loved me no matter how dragged out I was at the end of the day sometimes and no matter how I looked. It did matter to him though. One of the most hurtful things he said to me post D-day was that I was kinda pretty and if I fixed myself up that somebody else would want me. OUCH. That one still hurts at times. I am not doing that this time around. I get my hair done even though it bugs the shit out of me to sit for 2 hours in a hair salon. I wear much nicer clothes when I am not working and I spend time on stuff that I like.


divorced!

Posts: 2648 | Registered: Sep 2006 | From: newfoundland
NaiveAgain
Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 8:00 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

This one is interesting and rings some bells for me too, especially with my 1st H. I have tried 3 times to write out the details, but for some reason I can't. Not sure why.

But yeah, I lost my femininity with him, and also with the WS, who made me into his work horse.

One of the biggest draws with my XSO was how feminine and beautiful he made me feel when I was with him. That is probably a big part of why I dealt with all his issues, and stuck with him for 4 years even though I knew it could not last for the long-term.....he allowed me to be feminine, he even encouraged it, while the other guys had tried to squash it down....


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 15118 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
inconnu
Member
Member # 24518
Default  Posted: 8:03 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

So I really don't think it was being a "mom" to my kids that made me feel unsexy, but being a "mom" to my husband is what killed it. I wanted a partner, not another large child.

This was definitely part of the issue in my marriage, too. And then I brought my own FOO issues into the mix. So again, not placing the blame entirely on ex's head. I know that I played a part, at times a large part, in the dysfunction of the marriage.

I also know I accepted, for far too long, so much less than I am worthy of.


Say what you wanna say and let the words fall out...honestly
I wanna see you be brave

Pretty pretty please, don't you ever ever feel
Like you're less than, less than perfect


Posts: 12124 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: TX
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 10:38 AM, June 19th (Wednesday)

I usually like what he writes. This isn't one of his good ones, to me. Maybe I spend too much time in the wayward forum, but this sounds like a lot of blame shifting and justification, to me.

Yes, know it was written by a man but honestly find this as insulting to both women and men as stating men live life through their c&$ks. Maybe I'm sensitive because I'm raising three boys and happen to think men are rather awesome for the most part.

Sure, met some real assholes but know some huge bitches too.

I can think of just as many stories where women are all over their guys junk like a bad rash then after they get married join the convent. I've seen it personally with a couple of my friends.

Now when he works out in the yard he has to become hermetically sealed before they can kiss him because he's "ewwwwww". They're tired. He's ALWAYS in the mood. They're bloated. It's Tuesday.

I'm sure that "comfort" is expressed differently by people but I think that if you were a certain way to be more attractive while trolling you best be representin' at least some of that after you "caught" the person or it's more of a bait and switch...you know, fraud. That's for BOTH sexes.

Again, probably too much time in wayward but don't think anyone can make you do or be anything without your consent. Always have choices. Always.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
gma56
Member
Member # 19595
Default  Posted: 1:19 PM, June 19th (Wednesday)

I responded earlier in the thread. Yes so much of what he wrote was true in my marriage but I also allowed it. It was part co-dependency but more I'm a giver and will also go ahead and do what needs to be done without complaining or asking for help. I've been changing that over the last few years. I'm not trying to be superwoman any longer.

FT was also ill a great deal of the time and I always thought I was doing things to make our lives better. He is definitely a taker and only gave back minimally.
Another live lesson learned.
Gma

[This message edited by gma56 at 1:20 PM, June 19th (Wednesday)]


BW-Divorced
It's my life now, my choices, my mistakes to make and my victories to celebrate. His choices made me free of liars and betrayers in my life. I lost my family but gained a second chance to be happy.

Posts: 20323 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Half way to where I want to be.
woundedwidow
Member
Member # 36869
Default  Posted: 5:26 PM, June 19th (Wednesday)

I think some of the responses have possibly gotten off track from what Boteach is trying to express; i.e., that marriage is supposed to be a loving and lusting experience for both partners. Please realize that he is writing from the perspective of an Orthodox marriage, which is a very different experience from most on this board, and one in which the roles of the husband and wife are very traditionally defined. For instance, the wife is prohibited from having relations when she becomes niddah (during menstruation) and for 5 days thereafter, and retains that status until she is immersed in the mikveh (ritual bath.) By limiting the times when spouses can share physical intimacy, the Torah fans the flames of desire between them, as well as ensuring that their reunion will fall during her most fertile and hormonal time. This is a concept that embraces love and lust, which Rabbi Boteach heartily endorses. I don't understand where he says anything in the article that says that men think with their c*cks; rather, he's trying to inspire husbands to celebrate and honor the female power of their wives. Fortunately, in the Torah view, the pleasure of marital intimacy serves the positive function of maximizing the attachment between husband and wife. (Term "devek" = union, attachment. Rashi states that pleasure produces devek. (Sanhedrin 58a,b))


Be careful what you wish for the most - you may get it.

Posts: 363 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: VA
Topic Posts: 45