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Just Found Out
User Topic: Just found out
joeinfl
New Member
Member # 39583
Default  Posted: 12:07 AM, June 18th (Tuesday)

I have been married for almost 7 yrs and discovered last week my wife has been having an affair with her personal trainer for the past month (that I know of.)

I found out accidentally, she forgot to close out of Facebook one night on our computer, and I found sexting messages complete with a photo of her. She said it was just emotional, and was glad I caught it before anything physical happened between them, After discovering other info, she has admitted that the affair was physical.

We have 3 kids so it will be tough no matter how I decide to move.on.


Posts: 37 | Registered: Jun 2013
Emptyshelldad
Member
Member # 32292
Default  Posted: 1:30 AM, June 18th (Tuesday)

damn bro. I'm sorry, I know how badly this hits a man. And you and I are the same, both men with kids. I feel stuck like you do. I'm not the best at giving advice, but I wanted to let you know that I hear you. And when I think of the number of blatant come ons, and easy lays I've been offered but always refused out of love for my wife, it just makes me ill all over again. if you ever need to talk, you can send be a private message. my wife did the whole Facebook thing and sexy picture to another douche dude as well. stay strong and post more details, and there will be lots of good advice to follow from others I'm sure.


Me: BH - 28, Her: WW - 31, 10 years, 5 months, 6 days.
2 beautiful daughters. 1 devious, deceitful, serpant-like liar of a wife.
"oh god this has brought a path of destruction and scorching pain leaving in its wake a charred wasteland of a onc

Posts: 149 | Registered: May 2011 | From: emptyshelldad
gma56
Member
Member # 19595
Default  Posted: 3:39 AM, June 18th (Tuesday)

(((joeonfl)))
I'm so sorry you had to find us.

You are right,no matter what road you end up, it's a shit road full of hills and valleys.

If you haven't read the healing library I encourage you to start there.

Also we have a thread in "I Can relate forum that is is for betrayed men (BM). There are many posters there that have just found out like you, some are reconciling, some are divorcing (ed). Good reading for you, good support, and good men to help you through.

This will be one of the toughest if not the toughest time in your life but there is another side after working through all the issues no matter what path you end up taking. You're gonna be OK.

Big Hugs,Gma

[This message edited by gma56 at 3:41 AM, June 18th (Tuesday)]


BW-Divorced
It's my life now, my choices, my mistakes to make and my victories to celebrate. His choices made me free of liars and betrayers in my life. That is priceless.

Posts: 20371 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Half way to where I want to be.
stronger08
Member
Member # 16953
Default  Posted: 3:57 AM, June 18th (Tuesday)

I'm sorry Bro. PT's are well known for sleeping with many of their clients. I believe my XWW also had one with hers. Take care of yourself and read the healing library. Post often and ask questions. There are many great folks here who have walked in your shoes. Your in no rush to make any decisions right now. Take time to take this all in before you do. This is most likely the worst emotional pain your ever going to feel. Its imperative that you get a support system in place. If you find your having a tough time reach out for help. IC and meds can literally be life savers. There is no shame in seeking either. Do not under any circumstance allow your WW to blame you for any of this. This is all on her. No if, ands of buts about that. You have also most likely gotten a much watered down story of what really happened. Cheaters lie, that's just fact. Is your WW showing any remorse ? And when I say remorse I do not mean regret. Big difference between the two. The absolute worst thing you can do right now is to allow her to dictate policy or be weak in her presence. The WS soaks up fear and sadness. It gives them power. Once you decide on what you plan to do there are certain ways of going about them. I highly suggest you seek those answers here. I also know that you must feel that your the only person going through this. That no one can understand your suffering. That's nonsense. Truth is most affairs pretty much follow the same script. Your situation is not unique. So don't suffer in silence. We are here to help. All you have to do is ask.


You cant eat soup with chopsticks.

Posts: 5652 | Registered: Nov 2007
joeinfl
New Member
Member # 39583
Default  Posted: 6:19 AM, June 18th (Tuesday)

Thanks for the advice and support. Our three kids are young 5,3,2, and I still can't believe she would do that. I am successful, in good shape, and have had many opportunities to cheat if I didn't value my marriage. She says she has been unhappy with me over the past few years and has fallen out of love. She says the sex hasn't been "hot" for severally years. I told her I can't compete with the feelings you get in a new relationship. She also gets mad when I ask her questions or look for details. The problem is she never confessed to anything and everything I know is as a direct result of my limited detective abilities. She has complained about our relationship since my finding out and goes between sorrow, guilt, remorse, then anger and somehow being angry with me. She swears she has cut off all contact with OM. In her texts she told him she loved him, and thought of him when we were sleeping together. She says that was all BS, and was just looking for attention. It's hard to believe.

Posts: 37 | Registered: Jun 2013
jjct
Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 6:29 AM, June 18th (Tuesday)

She's not remorseful.
She's blameshifting and villainizing you.

The 180 is your friend.
It's for you, that's the key - it is not to "get her to see" or change. That may happen when you implement it, but you'll be busy tending to your own detachment and healing.

Be strong.
Accept no blame for her horrible choice to cheat.

Here's the basic outline:
http://survivinginfidelity.com/faq_bs.asp#FAQ11

& I'll bump some great threads with targets.


Posts: 6572 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
joeinfl
New Member
Member # 39583
Default  Posted: 1:45 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

She is a stay at home mom, we have a nanny, and stays in her room all day and won't come out. She called today and asked if she should just move on. She wants a timeline on when the stress in our relationship will go away. It hasn't even been one full week since I found out it was a physical relationship with her OM! She told me we just married wrong. Not sure if she really believes that, it is just lashing out for some reason. Regardless, I can't imagine going about thing this way if I wanted the relationship to work. It's almost like she is pushing me away. She has always said mean things when angry or hurt, but maybe I am just trying to deny how far gone this is.

Posts: 37 | Registered: Jun 2013
Edith
Member
Member # 38337
Default  Posted: 1:51 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

Hi Joe, For what it's worth, my husband lashed out at me when he was lying about being no contact with the gutter skank. For 3 months I thought he was not speaking to the pig, but turns out he was. He was angry at himself and taking it out on me.

I would suggest you implement the 180 and start focusing on yourself and your kids. So sorry for all this pain. It takes years to heal, if healing is even possible. Take care.

E.


Lies are manipulations. Always.

Posts: 379 | Registered: Feb 2013
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 1:53 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

Welcome to the club. Sorry you are here.

Go down to the betrayed men thread, there are a lot of us who are just starting out, and who have been through this for years.

She doesn't get to demand a timeline from you on when you will be over this. 3 to 5 years is what they say. Holy shit right?!

Read up on the healing library and some of the JFO threads, there is a lot of good information in there.

My wife did the same thing to me when I found out about her affair. Threw a huge pity party for herself. Blamed me for the affair, re-wrote our marital history, tried to make me out to be the bad-guy. Don't fall for it. It's nothing you did.

Read up on the 180.

Sorry you are here brother.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1272 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
phoenixrivers
Member
Member # 38314
Default  Posted: 1:54 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

Hey joe,

Do the 180 immediately. Do not answer any of the trap questions she poses to you. If she wants to know if you think she should move on, your response should be something along the lines of, "you do what you think is best for you" and do not give any hint at what you're thinking.

Follow the advice of the good folks here. And don't give her even a small inkling of what you are going through. Seek individual counseling (IC) for yourself. Let that process inform you of what you need to do. Don't make any snap judgements.

Additionally, you may want to engage in a little surreptitious snooping. One thing I learned on the forum is that cheaters lie and minimize. A little snooping while doing the 180 may go a long way in the near future to help you make decisions.

Good luck brother. So sorry for your pain.

phoenixrivers


Me: xBetrayedBF (xBBF)
Her: xWaywardGF (xWGF)
TT: 12/21/12
Splitsville: 1/6/13
DDay: 7/20/13
In active reconcilliation
"Nobody knows anybody...not that well." Tom Reagan, "Miller's Crossing"

Posts: 136 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: New Orleans, LA
1Faith
Member
Member # 38975
Frustrated  Posted: 3:05 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

Hi Joe

So sorry you find yourself here. Please know it is a safe and helpful place to be.

Too often when BS's first come to SI they are desperately looking to reconcile (R) with a WS who isn't as desperate as the BS.

True reconciliation is about far more than agreeing to stay in the marriage, but this gets lost to many BS's trying to regain their footing after D-day which is completely normal.

The Pillars of Reconciliation have been posted here before, and veterans cite them often.

To that end, I thought I would make a simple contribution that highlights the difference between true R and rugsweeping (i.e., just staying married without healing).

I hope that as new BS's come here, they can see the difference and take stock of where they are.

Doing so will go a long way toward avoiding a false R, a lot of unfulfilled expectations, and multiplied pain.

INDICATORS OF REMORSE
* Actions match words.
* Accepts full responsibility for the affair without blaming the BS, a bad marriage, or other outside factors.
* Expresses sorrow for hurting the BS and the M.
* Shows compassion and actively assists the BS with handling triggers.
* Does not become defensive or shut down when BS brings up affair-related emotions, issues, or questions.
* Answers questions honestly and completely.
* Does not avoid the BS or become frustrated that the BS is not “healing fast enough.”
* Contributes at least 60% of the joint effort at rebuilding the marriage.
* Actively works to understand why he or she made the choice to have an affair and shares insights with BS.
* Does not think solely about himself or herself. Considers how actions impact the BS.


Remorse is so important to R. It's the conerstone that everything else is built on. Without it, the M can not heal.

Remorse involves far more than just saying "I'm sorry." It's conveyed through consistent actions. The above list is not comprehensive, but it is meant to be an example that the FWS's behavior should be clear sign that he or she understands the pain the A caused and is committed to healing the M. Simply hanging around the house is not remorse. And it is not R.


NOTE: It was requested that I repost this from a thread I started in the Reconciliation Forum (http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=406525) so with the permission of the mods, I'm sharing it here also.


I don't want to give the impression that a BS is stuck in limbo if a WS doesn't agree to abide by these conditions for R. Staying stuck means the A continues.

If a WS won't agree to R under these necessary conditions, I encourage the BS to:

* work the 180
* use the Tactical Primer here on SI
* and see a divorce attorney to feel out their legal options

Living in limbo while an active A is in progress is tacitly agreeing to share your spouse.

Operate from a position of strength. If the WS says no to R, you can not love them out of the A or wait for it to end (it won't end).


Below is a list of threads that are recommended frequently to new members.

These threads provide more information about the 180 and how to deal with an unremorseful WS while attending to your own healing:

Tactical Primer:
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=235051

Boundaries and Consequences 101:
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=385631

Setting Healthy Boundaries:
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=231851

Understanding the 180:
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=232785

20/20 Hindsight: What I Wish I'd Done:
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=161389

Great Posts for Newbies to Read:
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=361740

Hope these are of some help.

Good luck and keep moving. We are all rooting for you.



"I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it." - Maya Angelou

Posts: 1137 | Registered: Apr 2013
sportsfan
Member
Member # 9918
Default  Posted: 3:24 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

Sorry that you're here, joeinfl, but welcome.

Do you know if her AP is M? If he is please consider outing him - that is one of the fastest ways to end an A.

NC is a must. She can no longer go to that gym or wherever it is that they train personally.

You both need to get tested for STD's.

She's very likely in what we call "the fog". Read up on it. Learn the signs.

You gotta take good care of yourself, bro. Eat, drink lots of water, sleep when you can, exercise ... no booze.

Don't stop investigating. Consider placing a VAR in her car.

You need full disclosure ... demand it.

And you gotta hang in there. You'll experience mind movies, they're natural. The best way to to deal with them is to just let them run through ... they'll eventually disappear.

We're here for you!


Posts: 1948 | Registered: Feb 2006 | From: PA
justbreath
New Member
Member # 39589
Default  Posted: 3:54 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

I too am in this new area of my life. An area that I thought I would never have to go through, I sure didn't sign up for this tour! I hope we both find help here, I really think we will, and can go on with our life. Good luck.


Me: 37
D day : 05-12-13
She left pieces of her life behind her wherever she went....it's easier to feel the sunlight without them, she said.


Posts: 10 | Registered: Jun 2013
hatefulnow
Member
Member # 35603
Default  Posted: 4:28 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

I am SO sorry you are going through this. I don't know what is the matter with people. Why can't they be honest, like adults,mand tell us how they feel? Before you saw her Facebook, I bet you thought everything was fine. Maybe there were issues, but nothing that couldn't be ironed out. Had you been given a chance I'm sure you would have fought for your relationship. But, because of he dishonesty, she had you in a fight you didnt know you were in. You were blind folded, hand cuffed, leg shackled and put in a sack with chains around it. But of course you're supposed to know what she wants, give it to her and bend over backwards to do so, because you can read her mind.

Give me a flipping break!!

Don't fret over her being an asshole right now. It's not about you. It's about her and I bet if you analyze your relationship you'd find out that it probably always has been. This is typical WW behavior, right out of their playbook. She gotta make you the bad guy because if not, SHE'S the bad guy.

You've been advised to do the 180. I advise this also. Read our healing library. Lots of great info there. Talk to an attorney to know your rights.
In the meantime get lots of rest, eat, drink WATER, and some excerise if it doesn't trigger you too much right
now. Good luck.


Posts: 127 | Registered: May 2012
Drew_n_Va
Member
Member # 31043
Default  Posted: 4:31 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

We have many similarities (as do many affairs). Married the same amount of time, my wife stayed at home, same amount of children, spouting the same BS after being caught. I kicked my wife out after 8 days. Severed everything financially right down to insurance, phones, banking, etc. 8 days after kicking her out she asked me for a divorce. The next day she begged to come home. Almost 2.5 years later we are happy and I consider us nearly reconciled. Many will tell you to wait some period of time and I concur but......the only way to kick an indecisive spouse off the fence is to take swift decisive action. Just my cents. Hang in there Bro. No matter what happens it will get better.


Me: BH 50
her: fWW 41
Married 19 years
3 Beautiful Kids (14,8,6)
D-Day: 1-26-11
Status: Reconciled
"From Happy to Separated to Divorcing to living together again in 16 Days."

Endeavor to Persevere


Posts: 425 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Va
joeinfl
New Member
Member # 39583
Default  Posted: 4:40 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

Thanks for all of this feedback, I had no idea a place like this even existed before. It really helps! The OM is married, with 3 kids. I have been reluctant to call his wife because I didn't want to be vengeful or upend her life or the lives of their kids.

Posts: 37 | Registered: Jun 2013
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 4:41 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

She says the sex hasn't been "hot" for severally years

And her adultery is supposed to warm it up?

The amount of effort and attention that goes into raising 3 kids is tremendous; no small wonder that the first casualty is often a 'hot' sex life.
Personally I would either let the nanny go and push more of the child=rearing onto your wife; that should keep her busy; or, keep the nanny and insist your wife get full-time employment; no more relaxing in her room all day. Joe you need to toughen up and give her a taste of reality.

She has such a distorted image of your marriage that reconciliation is going to be very difficult. Is she somewhat narcissistic? Sounds that way.


Posts: 1704 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
1Faith
Member
Member # 38975
Frustrated  Posted: 4:57 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

The OM is married, with 3 kids. I have been reluctant to call his wife because I didn't want to be vengeful or upend her life or the lives of their kids.

We all get this we do but you really need to tell her. If she had found out wouldn't you want her to have told you?

It is not vengeful it is honorable.

In my case the OW's husband knew 6 months before I found out. He foolishly thought it had ended. They just took it underground and became more cleaver in their meetings/communication.

I reached out to him after I found out and he said he didn't want to hurt me or my kids. I get that but boy do I wish I would have known.

She deserves to know that she is sharing her life with a liar and an adulterer. She needs to protect herself and her family just as you do with yours.

I suggest a FB or LinkedIn message gently stating what you discovered and letting her know you are available to talk if she wants further information will suffice.

Sorry you are here Joe and that as the BS we get to clean up the mess our WS leave us with. Sucks and is unfair but alas, we will come out the other side.

Onward.

[This message edited by 1Faith at 4:58 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)]


"I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it." - Maya Angelou

Posts: 1137 | Registered: Apr 2013
joeinfl
New Member
Member # 39583
Default  Posted: 6:16 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

So It has now been almost a week since I found out. She told me tonight in the phone on my way home from work the following:

Women who are happy in their relationship are not going to cheat.

And

I don't want to show you remorse because I don't like you

I get that she is feeling trapped right now, but man she is making my decision on how to move forward easy!



Posts: 37 | Registered: Jun 2013
justbreath
New Member
Member # 39589
Default  Posted: 7:12 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

It's been a little over a month since I found out. The roller coaster of emotions is no picnic to say the least. Reading the posts I'd like to add something, even though I'm a "newbie" myself....nothing she can say or do will EVER justify what she did. I don't care how many "problems" she thought the marriage had. If it was so awful then GET OUT. Why do something so disrespectful? I say all of this because these are the same questions I've asked myself (and my WH)concerning his behavior. It's just not right, not fair, and altogether sucks. Once again good luck.


Me: 37
D day : 05-12-13
She left pieces of her life behind her wherever she went....it's easier to feel the sunlight without them, she said.


Posts: 10 | Registered: Jun 2013
kenny55
Member
Member # 23014
Default  Posted: 7:19 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

You need to tell the other spouse. You will not be the cause of the failure of her marriage. Her husband did that.

Posts: 464 | Registered: Feb 2009
Ghostrider
Member
Member # 32604
Default  Posted: 7:23 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

Joe, my WW exhibited many of the same behaviors as yours. Feel free to let your WW know that a). she isn't unique as there are - sadly - hundreds of these exact scenarios and b). most self-aware adults in a relationship with a modicum of self-respect for themselves and the parent to their children inform the other party when they plan to end it.

My WW did the following:

- blamed me
- claimed that she would have cheated if...
- asked me if she should end leave
- alternated between sadness, anger and frustration for 6 months
- lied about protection, number of times and who knew

I told her the following after DDY 3. I have no idea if our M was going to last but that she needed to focus on herself because we had 2 sons and they didn't need a mom who whored herself around. They needed a self-aware, mature adult who they could rely on, who made sound rational decisions and based on what she had done, she was miles from that.

My suggestion is to protect yourself and your kids. Prepare for D. Both mentally and in process.

I'm 2yrs into this. My WW is a changed woman. Remorseful. Self-aware. I stayed for my boys. But even now, when they leave, I wonder if there will be enough there to make it last when their gone.

Good luck man. This is a rough ride. You can survive it. But not without hurt.


BH (me), WW (her), 2 boys

"You will never be the same. You accept it. You will never have closure. There is no such a word as closure. Closure does not exist. Life is different. Now you get to choose what you're going to do with it."


Posts: 434 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: United States
thinkingclear
Member
Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 7:30 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

So sorry you are here. Please follow the great advice you have received.

She is following the WW script perfectly. Nothing she is telling you is unique. This is ALL about her brokenness. Don't try to figure her out or understand the why's right now. Protect yourself and detach.

Women who are happy in their relationship are happy with themselves. (Same goes for men too)

There is NEVER an excuse for an affair. It is ALWAYS wrong. It is ALL her fault. She is using immature protective mechanisms to prevent her from seeing herself for who she is. The truth is too painful for her. Change is possible only if she wants to change. Now is not the time to worry about even if that is possible.

Take care. Be strong.


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 8:09 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

Your wife has a privileged and wealthy life style,' not having to work; a nanny for the kids, a personal trainer etc. Time to turn nasty and take this gorgeous lifestyle away.
After all she doesn't like you or love you; why should you be mr. nice guy?

Insist she leaves to 'find herself', which will mean finding a job and learning to survive without all these luxuries that she takes for granted. She needs a gigantic kick up the ass. Time to apply some corrective medicine to this relationship. Wonder how long she takes to regain that loving feeling when she gets tired after a full days work and is missing that privileged standard of living, not to mention the personal trainer.


Posts: 1704 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
hatefulnow
Member
Member # 35603
Default  Posted: 8:14 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

Don't pay too much mind to her current behavior. It is right out of the WS playbook. But, since this PRICK is married, it's time for the nuclear option.

Don't worry that it might disrupt his family. You're not coming to his wife with a pack of lies. You're not the one who upended her life. Besides, if you want a chance at saving your marriage, your wife has
got to get her head in the game...100%! There is no better way to defog a WS than exposing the AP to their spouse. Occasionally, they will want to commit to the WS, but usually they run for cover, throw their AP under the bus, and break contact in order to save their ass. The WS, seeing that her 'one true luuuurrrrvvv' didn't really care about them and was using her for sex because she is an attractive woman who made herself available for sex, usually has a 'WHAT THE HELL HAVE I DONE' moment.

Besides, you might only be confirming what his spouse already suspects. You might be helping her out to get to the truth she needs and deserves to know but has been denied to her by POSOM (piece of shit other man). Also, she could prove to be a valuable ally to comiserate, share info, help maintain no contact, etc.


Posts: 127 | Registered: May 2012
joeinfl
New Member
Member # 39583
Default  Posted: 8:55 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

So tonight my wife tells me it is over. She has been miserable for years she says. We had issues typical of a family with 3 young kids dealing with lack of sleep, bills, etc... But I'm not sure I would call it miserable. She installed her password back on her phone and says it doesn't matter because its over. I guess I will call my attorney tomorrow

Posts: 37 | Registered: Jun 2013
hatefulnow
Member
Member # 35603
Default  Posted: 9:18 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

And tell OMs wife!

Posts: 127 | Registered: May 2012
hatefulnow
Member
Member # 35603
Default  Posted: 9:19 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

Kids? Bills? She had a nanny and wasn't working. Ingrate!

Posts: 127 | Registered: May 2012
wonderpets
Member
Member # 35901
Default  Posted: 10:00 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

You'll be pissed of and full of hate for a year or so, but you'll come out all right. She won't find what she wants though.

Posts: 203 | Registered: Jun 2012
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 10:29 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

Hard to believe she's that willing to give up her life of utter privilege and expose her children to a painful divorce. Life has a working mother trying to raise a family is far removed from the benevolent luxury she has 'endured' in her marriage.

I'll believe it when it happens.


Posts: 1704 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
FeelingSoMuch
Member
Member # 38814
Default  Posted: 10:38 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

This sounds similar to how my WW behaved at first -- nearly four months later she's a different person and is starting to resemble again the woman I married. What I'm trying to say is, there's hope and your situation has the potential to improve significantly over the next few months. (the pain will still be there)

A PA that includes an EA is much harder to deal with. More women seem to have EAs and they take longer to reach remorse than guys who have a ONS.

The OM and your WW probably told themselves a lot of lies to keep the A going. She's likely relying on those lies right now to justify what she did.

The best way to break her bond is to cause problems for the OM. I called the OM's live-in girlfriend at her work. That caused a lot of grief for him and made him reluctant to contact my WW again. He's stayed away since. I didn't do it for any noble reason. I did it out of revenge and to break the bond. It broke the bond.

My stupid WW -- I still love her -- also said incredibly hurtful things to me during the first two weeks. Apparently this is normal and you if you believe her there'll never be a chance of R. Your WW is saying hurtful things to justify her actions. She doesn't even believe in them. You don't marry someone and have three kids with them if you believe such ugly things about the other person. You're going to have to let that slide, but whatever you do, don't agree with her or believe her words. Her only intention is to hurt you and cause you to react in a negative way, thus justifying her actions.

Do the 180. It took me three months to start getting it right and I'm still not great at it. Don't blame yourself if you can't do it at first -- it'll take time.

Go to both IC and MC. Even if you believe you're going to D, go to MC. It helps understand the situation and I have a feeling your WW, much like my WW, will listen to the therapist more than she listens to you. The therapist will force them to at least take ownership of their actions.

I'm so sorry. This hurts like hell. I had never taken any meds in my entire life, but found that anti-depressants help me stay focused at work. I have a hectic job with people coming in to my office throughout the day. It's the only way I have found to continue performing at work.

Like the people posting above suggested, do not make any long-term decisions right now. You don't need to and the ridiculous rage your WW is showing will subside significantly once she gives up the douchebag in her head. Right now, she's probably thinking he can help her get out of this. He can't. He's a douchebag cheater. You're her best friend and the person who gave her the nice life she enjoyed so much she felt safe enough to cheat.

Once again, most importantly -- hold off on major decisions and seek counselling.

Good luck and stay strong.

[This message edited by FeelingSoMuch at 10:39 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)]


Me: BH
Her: WW
Together since 2001, married since 2007.
D-day: Feb. 20, 2013.
Broke NC: 2 phone calls since
Today: In MC and IC, attempting R.
It got easier: They no longer work together.

Posts: 509 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Canada
stronger08
Member
Member # 16953
Default  Posted: 10:53 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

Well being that she has laid down the gauntlet its time for you to give her a heavy dose of reality. Inform OM BS matter of fact inform his employer as well. Inform everyone you know that she is leaving because she has been having an A with her trainer. Its imperative you expose before she can go bad mouthing you and telling quite a different story as to why the M is ending. Sever all financial ties now. Do not give her a red cent until a court orders you to do so. Pack her bags and show her the door. Tell her she is free to pursue a relationship with OM. Get to an attorney and make sure you file for custody first. He who files first usually gets temp custody till a hearing. Which can be months away. You must prepare for D. Even if its not what you want. You must assume the worst case scenario right now. D is war and needs to be treated as such. Show no quarter and take no prisoners. Ensure your children's safety and security. Get your ass to a lawyer ASAP. You must have a detailed plan of attack in place.

So now lets look at the reality of this all. She is banging her PT. She is in love with the fantasy he creates. I'm sure he is telling her exactly what he thinks she needs to hear in order to get laid. The best course of action in dealing with cheaters is to give them what they want. So she wants the PT. let her have him. Lets face it most guys like him go into that line of work because there are lots of women to bag. She is not his first and I'm sure not his last. And quite possibly he has a few going on at the same time. She thinks she is special to him right now. But she is just another piece of meat who threw herself at this predator. Once she leaves you she will run to him. Do you honestly think he wants her ? You said the dude is M. Most likely he is a trophy H and his W earns the bread. If she thinks he is leaving that cushy scenario for a broke assed client she is sadly mistaken. That's why you must tell his BS and employer. You must make this A difficult. Another thing about severing finances is that he gets paid to train her. So your basically paying him to screw your W. Don't sound so good does it ?

This A must be dragged into reality. Reality is like kryptonite to an A. It kills it quickly. No need to lie or add anything to what's going on. Because her actions are vile. Her intentions are vile. And all you gotta do is give her enough rope to hang herself. And trust me she will. She is going to be mean, nasty and make all kinds of accusations. Let her. The thing about the truth is you only have to tell it once. While a lie grows like a bad weed. Once she gets dumped by OM and she will. Her tune will start to change. She will most likely come crawling back to you. But it cant just be that alone. Do not allow her back in until she atones for her deeds. She must be willing to be totally honest and accept your terms. And that's if you choose to take her back. You may find that you no longer want a cheat and liar in your life. And there is nothing wrong with that. She ran that risk when she fucked another man. And she took it anyways. Too bad, so sad. She thinks she holds all the cards now. But in reality you do. You just gotta step up and realize it my man. Your going to hurt, that's a given bro. But you must not show her that hurt or fear because she will run with it. Stand firm and absolute. Do not allow her to run this show. If you play this right your going to come out smelling like a rose. Just man up, pick your balls off the floor and do what needs to be done. You will be OK. Please keep posting and reading. We can help you through this.


You cant eat soup with chopsticks.

Posts: 5652 | Registered: Nov 2007
sadtoo
Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 11:17 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)

So tonight my wife tells me it is over. She has been miserable for years she says. We had issues typical of a family with 3 young kids dealing with lack of sleep, bills, etc... But I'm not sure I would call it miserable. She installed her password back on her phone and says it doesn't matter because its over. I guess I will call my attorney tomorrow

Hi Joe,
So sorry about your situation.

I don't think you have the whole truth. Your wife is in a full blown affair. And now that ahe's been "caught" she's only admitting to the minimum. And she's re-writing marital history (I've been so miserable, blah, blah, blah) in order to justify her behavior. This is also a way to shift the blame to you. Believe it or not, this is all very common behavior with cheating spouses.

Personally, I think you are sitting in a pretty good position. I think you have a good chance of getting your wife back (if you want her) and getting her to be sincerely remorseful.

It won't be easy. But you really don't have much choice at this point. These are the cards you have been dealt.

The WORST thing to do right now is to cry and beg for her to come back. That won't work. She has her head so far up her ass, she can't see or think straight. And don't think you can "love" or "nice" her back either. Neither of those work.

See your lawyer. Find out what your rights are in your state as far as the children are concerned. Consider filing for divorce AND for full custody of the children.

The next thing you MUST do is contact the OM's wife. You are not destroying their marriage. HE and your wife did that. his wife deserves to know.

This is going to help you. Chances are he is going to run back to his wife and kids and dump your WW like last week's trash. This is going to slap your WW upside the head with a much needed dose of reality.

What if he doesn't run back to his wife and she instead throws him out? This works in your favor too. Don't get caught up in the "now they will be together" scenerio. They are already together. But now he has a very angry wife who is about to divorce him and really stick it to him.

Suddenly their little fantasy life isn't so wonderful any more. And nothing against personal trainers, but I'm guessing that after his wife is done with him there won't be much left over for houses and cars and nannies.

Affairs are based on alot of fantasy. There are no real life issues to burst the fantasy bubble. There are no blended bank accounts, no mortgages and other bills to pay, no sick kids, no dirty laundry, etc.

You toss in two divorces, alimony, child support, child visitation, loss of personal belongings, etc and reality comes crashing down big time.


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 8017 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 6:35 AM, June 19th (Wednesday)

Joe, just read and re-read the last three excellent posts. They all point the way forward in a most realistic, practical way.

Your wife is gripped by a temporary insanity; all facts are distorted and you need to protect yourself from the damage she can do. Contact the OM's BW; watch him ditch your wife in a heartbeat and contact an attorney; you don't want your WW running off with the kids.


Posts: 1704 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
joeinfl
New Member
Member # 39583
Default  Posted: 7:26 AM, June 19th (Wednesday)

This morning she was angry until I told her I was going to speak to my attorney today, and once the train started rolling it would be hard to stop. That seemed to jolt her into some sort of temporary reality. We had a counseling session scheduled for tomorrow, that she told me last night she no longer wanted to go to. Now she asked if I would wait until after the MC session tomorrow to reach out to the attorney.

Posts: 37 | Registered: Jun 2013
jjct
Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:37 AM, June 19th (Wednesday)

No.
Continue forward.
You can always delay later if she shows signs of true remorse.

Notice what caused her (little bit of) change?

That was you.
Grabbing control of your life.
Manning up.

It may not even be real change anyway. She's just bargaining for a better outcome for herself...


Posts: 6572 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 7:46 AM, June 19th (Wednesday)

Now she asked if I would wait until after the MC session tomorrow to reach out to the attorney.

How does this serve your interests? Not at all I am thinking.

D is not hard to stop once initiated, in fact it takes some perseverance to keep it moving. See the attorney, there will be all sorts of important information. For instance, you know that here in Florida there is no legal separation? Some of the other things my attorney told me were to stop making house payments and bank the money while we worked through the D, and to log my involvement in childcare in the event I had to push to defend my rights for custody.

As for the MC, it is not the M or you that is broken and needs to be fixed. It is your WW. She will not be able to realistically work on the M with you as a full and equal partner until she has identified and owned her A-related perceptions, problems, and other crap.

She does not even know if she wants to be with you. She tells you she does not love you. She is hiding her communications from you. Delaying any legal move towards D serves her purposes of having you take care of her and the kids while she is free to stay in contact with OM or find a new OM.

Something I offered for consideration in another thread, would you spend time with the person your WW is now if she was not your W? Would you date her? Would you M her? If the answers are no, why would you stay M to her? Filing for D is not D, it is only the first step. There are many opportunities to stop the process if you decide that is in YOUR best interest.

--Ats


FBS 54
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4128 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
2yrs+recovering
Member
Member # 31582
Default  Posted: 7:47 AM, June 19th (Wednesday)

Hi Joe,

Sorry about your wife, but glad you found this place.

You are doing it right, a lawyer is what you need, but the train can be stopped if she becomes truly remorseful.

And as most on SI believe it is imperative that you contact the other spouse. And do NOT tell your WW that you are doing this!!!

First, they have a right to know and a high percentage of A's end because the op does not want to end their marriage. This bright light will shine on their dirty little secret. Affairs thrive only in secrecy.

Second, they have a right to know period.

I wish someone, anyone had told me sooner, and even if they only told me of their suspicions!!! At least I would have had knowledge, knowledge is power. And I would have known I wasn't CRAZY. as I was told for years

180, tell other spouse,lawyer, and seek all the free and wise help from this site. No need to re-invent the wheel. xoxo


BS (me)59 FWH 71
Married 35 years
4 children and 3 grandchildren
5 yrs into R.
Now that he has changed and become the man he should have been all along, why should I start over?

Posts: 560 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: New Jersey
2yrs+recovering
Member
Member # 31582
Default  Posted: 7:55 AM, June 19th (Wednesday)

Oh and one thing I forgot, and since I did not read all the responses yet, maybe someone else brought this up.

Personal trainer!!! Very good chance this is not the first time at the rodeo for him!!!

The likelihood that this is true love is slim!!!

Do not pass go, go straight to the ops wife and tell her in as kind a way as you can. I am pretty sure she may have heard this before!


BS (me)59 FWH 71
Married 35 years
4 children and 3 grandchildren
5 yrs into R.
Now that he has changed and become the man he should have been all along, why should I start over?

Posts: 560 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: New Jersey
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 8:09 AM, June 19th (Wednesday)

hey brother sorry you are here. please, please do not put of filing. given everything she has said and Shown you, this is likely a stall tactic. do not let her file first. protect yourself and the children first.
also please, make it a priority to see a doctor and get tested for STD's.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2800 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
bufffalo
Member
Member # 21854
Default  Posted: 8:24 AM, June 19th (Wednesday)

joe...

Hey Bro...welcome to SI. You have received a lot of good advice from a lot of folks...I agree with them...

Telling the other BS will NOT "push them" together....they are together now...

Time to burst her little fantasy...tell the other BS...ASAP!! The result - the OM will dump her in order to save his own marriage...thus enabling your wife to see that she is just a notch on her BFs belt....huge reality check!!! Im betting this aint his first rodeo...

Count on you WW rewriting her marital history...they do this to justify their cheating...they DO deserve to be happy...ya know.. .

Bro....shes gonna be pissed...pissed she got caught...prepare yourself for it. Oh...cheaters lie - expect it...

Until your wife shows true remorse....shes humping your leg...Until you get the old "snotting, crying, blubbering, im so sorry I hurt you, mascara dripping off of her chin apology".....R aint gonna happen!!!

Bust the fantasy....tell the other BS...and do it before the affair has time to go underground....(a lot do at this point)...

Know this bullshit aint your fault...

Keep us posted...

Bufffalo


DDay 9/25/2008
R started 11/10/08
BH-me

Posts: 5822 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Texas
m334455
Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 8:34 AM, June 19th (Wednesday)

Buffalo is right. Tell OM's wife. My WH had a 20 year LTA, I found out (discovered it myself) when we'd been married 7 years (yes, the LTA pre-dated my marriage by quite a bit.) His explanation? It was exciting to take a risk, it made him feel young to have that connection to his past and it was easy. That was about it. Oh, he was incessantly texting another XGF too -- chances are good your WW might not even be the only OP her OM is currently involved with.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
TheClimb
Member
Member # 25895
Default  Posted: 8:38 AM, June 19th (Wednesday)

Joe:

Hope you are doing ok this morning. Notice how many of these posts say the same things over and over? That is because we have all been where you are. We have the benefit now of seeing how it ends. Giving you advice we wished we had taken earlier which would have caused us much less pain. Some of this may seem counter productive to saving your marriage but buddy, it truly is the only way to save it now.

I concur that you should keep your appointment with your lawyer. You can stop proceedings whenever you want. She is testing you right now, being just a little bit less mean and nasty to see if you will do what she wants. If you give in now, you only make this longer (as I did). There is nothing worse than sharing your spouse with someone else.
Don't share, let him have her and see what the light of day does to their romance.

Also, telling the other wife will give you the benefit of having an ally in his home. He will be way too busy fighting his own battles to worry about your wife.

You will be ok. You can do this. You my friend, hold all the cards, even if it doesn't feel like it.


"That which can be destroyed by the truth should be" P.C. Hodgell

Posts: 461 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Southern Maryland
1Faith
Member
Member # 38975
Revenge  Posted: 9:01 AM, June 19th (Wednesday)

This morning she was angry until I told her I was going to speak to my attorney today, and once the train started rolling it would be hard to stop. That seemed to jolt her into some sort of temporary reality. We had a counseling session scheduled for tomorrow, that she told me last night she no longer wanted to go to. Now she asked if I would wait until after the MC session tomorrow to reach out to the attorney.

I would say still see the attorney. She needs to know that you mean business. She needs to be shocked back to reality. Burst the affair bubble.

Also, telling the other wife will give you the benefit of having an ally in his home. He will be way too busy fighting his own battles to worry about your wife.

I couldn't agree more.

Joe, keep moving and know that you are doing great.

Hold on. Tomorrow is a new day. We are all here rooting for you.


"I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it." - Maya Angelou

Posts: 1137 | Registered: Apr 2013
toomanyregrets
Member
Member # 37740
Default  Posted: 11:49 AM, June 19th (Wednesday)

Sounds like she was all set to leave until she realized that you were serious about a D. Talk about a shot of reality. She never thought it through.
Make an appointment with your lawyer ASAP and keep it, even if it's before your MC session. You need to know your rights if she does decide to leave.

[This message edited by toomanyregrets at 11:51 AM, June 19th (Wednesday)]


BH - 64
fWW - 60

"Affairs are not mistakes, they are a series of deliberate choices." - CrappyLife


Posts: 466 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Upstate NY
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 12:12 PM, June 19th (Wednesday)

Joe.
Already got some great advice but I want to add my two cents worth.
There are several things I see in your posts. Things that are atypical post-d-day reactions. These are things that we have seen again and again and we tend to know how the reaction will be, the reaction to the reaction and so on.

Fact is that I guess we old-timers here on SI can predict with amazing accuracy how things will develop. Human reaction tends to be predictable and I venture we can predict with 60-80% accuracy how you react, how your WW reacts and so on. Like your reaction to telling OMW; I guess only one in ten BH jump to the act of telling the OMW. I guess we manage to convince six out of ten. I venture that 98 out of a hundred are happy with having told OMW and see a benefit to THEIR marriage (irrespective of whether it’s morally the correct thing to do).

I also venture that we old-timers can give you a sequence of things to do. Expose, have WW commit to NC, have WW commit to transparency and so on. I venture that if you manage to get a commitment to all the steps your odds of saving your marriage are 95%. I also venture that each and every step you decide to omit OR don’t get your WW to commit to lessens your chances by a third. So not telling OMW… down from 99% to 66%. Add to that no NC letter… 33%. Add to that no transparency and you are at 0%.

What would I suggest as your first step? Well… Acknowledge some very simple and obvious facts:

You can’t reconcile alone.

The affair is your WW decision. It wasn’t inevitable. It isn’t justifiable. It’s a DECISSION. At some point she made the clear and conscious decision to enter an affair.

You don’t want a marriage where your wife is having sex and seeking emotional support from another man.

The worst possible outcome of this situation is NOT divorce. The worst possible outcome is that your wife REMAINS in a state of infidelity. [This obvious truth isn’t often so obvious. Possibly a third of those dealing with infidelity don’t deal with the underlying issues and accept a situation where this great big white elephant keeps vigil in the home. These couples find a way to remain amicable, even have sex every now and then and have acceptable communications, but don’t deal with the issues. This is most often justified with some excuse regarding the kids and breaking up a home. Sort of like refusing to call the fire-brigade because extinguishing the burning house might leave you cold…]

Once you acknowledge these steps then tell your wife something like this:

“Honey. I believe we could reconcile our marriage. I also think our kids deserve we try. But… I have also realized that a divorce is NOT the worst outcome. The worst outcome would be to remain in a marriage where you seek sex and emotional validation from other men. A marriage where you say I am so lacking and you say you are so unhappy with me. I could acknowledge that I could make changes, but there is NOTHING lacking in me that explains, justifies or even starts making sense of your decision to cheat. So while this is the case – while you maintain our relationship is over and that I am so far below your standards then I’m simply taking you at face-value.
There is no rush but I am simply acknowledging your wishes and we will start the process of terminating this marriage. It won’t be done in anger, neither of us will be screwed and I have no intention of being greedy or seeking more than the law entitles us to. We don’t have to start the process right now but I definitely will be looking into how to move on.
I won’t be talking to you about specifics. I’m too emotionally attached to the marriage. In time we will get a professional to help us through this process.
Although I’m not happy with it then you are totally free to see OM or any other man you want. It would be in bad taste but realistically you have stated you don’t want to be in this marriage and if we are terminating it then that’s something you are free to do.
If I am misunderstanding something. If I am not so terrible and lacking as you claim. If you want to work on the marriage then as is I’m open to that. I will need some basic requirements such as transparency, NC and a commitment to MC and reconciliation but I also acknowledge that the work will require a lot from BOTH of us. But until and unless you tell me very clearly you want this marriage… Then I’m working at its formal termination.”


OK – that’s a long speech. But think about it: Your situation is comparable to the guy that caught his arm in a crevice in Utah. You know – the guy that cut it off after a week or so. I guess he hoped he didn’t have to. I guess that given a choice he would have preferred keeping both arms. But he didn’t HAVE that choice. He had to choose from the options he had and they were limited and bad; die or cut. That’s where you are. You can chose to be in a marriage where your wife is cheating and/or claims to be unhappy with you OR you can get out of the marriage. Chances are that when SHE faces her options - commit to reconciliation or divorce – she will eventually chose reconciliation.

But… It won’t happen right away… Not in the first three minutes after the speech.
She will say things like “Well – I might reconcile for the kids”. And you need to stand firm and say “No – the kids will be fine. It’s better to come from a broken home than live in one”. She’s going to say “We can’t afford to divorce” and you are going to say “Well – we can be sensible and use one lawyer. For me the price is low compared to the emotional pain of being in infidelity”…. Each and every excuse she uses to remain married… you remove it.
Eventually she has to stand in front of you and say “I want to save our marriage because I want to remain married to you”. Not because of the kids, not because of the lifestyle, not because you are upside down on the house. No excuse. Only a valid reason.

And then you move on. Don’t tell her you are seeing an attorney – just go see one. Don’t tell her you are planning on having the house appraised – just do it. Don’t tell her you are getting financial statements and records… just do it. No drama. No theatrics. No warning. Just work at the initial steps of ending a marriage.

Finally: Regarding telling the OMW. It’s the single best thing you can do to save your marriage. Back to odds and numbers: 9/10 OM dump their OW ASAP on exposure. Being dumped is a great way to wake women up. Plus the OMW will act as a barometer on whether the affair is ongoing or not.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5546 | Registered: Sep 2005
Ghostrider
Member
Member # 32604
Default  Posted: 1:57 PM, June 19th (Wednesday)

Joe,
You've been given great advice. I wish I had it as early as you. I wallowed for 2 months before I got my head sorted.

One thing to remember when she says its over and she doesn't love you. Can you imagine how insane it would be for her to realize that she hurt and damaged someone she loved and fathered her children? That she threw away her marriage and altered her kids lives for a schmooopiieee? She needs to think your bad. That's the only way this makes sense to her in her little bizarroworld. She needs to blame you for everything from snoring, the loss of Atlantis, and NSA snoping. Because if you're not bad, if upon reflection that you have a normal marriage with its normal challenges,, then she'll be forced realize how f'ed up she is. And that's gunna suck.

[This message edited by Ghostrider at 2:05 PM, June 19th (Wednesday)]


BH (me), WW (her), 2 boys

"You will never be the same. You accept it. You will never have closure. There is no such a word as closure. Closure does not exist. Life is different. Now you get to choose what you're going to do with it."


Posts: 434 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: United States
Freeme
Member
Member # 31946
Default  Posted: 2:14 PM, June 19th (Wednesday)

great advice --
wanted to add --do not tell your wife that you are going to inform the other BS... just do.


Posts: 221 | Registered: Apr 2011 | From: Washington DC
cuckhold
Member
Member # 25015
Default  Posted: 8:00 PM, June 19th (Wednesday)

joe, couples counseling is a waste of money if she's still in the affair, which she is. a suggestion would be individual counseling.
Let me reiterate: HER AFFAIR IS NOT YOUR FAULT. If she felt the marriage was SO bad she had other options.
TELL OM's WIFE! ( he'll throw your wife under the bus!) STAY FROSTY AND JUST ALL BUSINESS! No emotion, no I love you, no begging. Protect yourself. If it doesn't get better it will get ugly, be prepared! Good Luck!

[This message edited by cuckhold at 8:00 PM, June 19th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 716 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: michigan
LA44
Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 8:15 PM, June 19th (Wednesday)

((Joe)) So sorry. Overall great advice. Thumbs up for Bigger.

Agree with Freeme too. Don't tell her you are going to tell OmW. Just tell her. Or send her a package with any documentation you have. Make sure she and she alonehas to sign for the package.

Good luck to you.


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2281 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
joeinfl
New Member
Member # 39583
Default  Posted: 12:05 AM, June 20th (Thursday)

First of all, I need to say thank you to everyone who has helped deal with this issue. So I called her bluff and told her I was going to meet with the attorney. I am no longer emotional, she told me last night she wanted out, so I am committed to moving forward with the big D. Now, I have a new problem. She is all of a sudden remourseful and even wanted to have sex (I said absolutely not right now- where did that willpower come from?) So I am ready to move on, and now she decides she wants to give it another try. I really can't tell what is real right now.

Posts: 37 | Registered: Jun 2013
sadtoo
Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 2:00 AM, June 20th (Thursday)

She is all of a sudden remourseful and even wanted to have sex

Don't have sex with her. Keep up the will power. Chances are this OM is a big time player, so you could be exposing yourself to STD's.

She is all of a sudden remourseful

Ok. Well remember, cheaters lie. So words mean absolutely NOTHING.

This is what you do:

1) Require her to get tested for STD's

2) Demand transparency. No locking phones. You will know all passwords.

3) She writes a no-contact letter to the OM. Make sure the delivery method is reliable.

4) His wife is informed.

5) She quits the gym

6) She begins individual counseling.

7) You can look at beginning marriage counseling after she has some sucess with her IC.

8) You STILL see the attorney so she knows you are prepared for plan B.

9) Lay out the consequences if she breaks the NC rules with the OM.

If she back peddles on any of these, she is not remorseful. You are presenting her with a "gift". She needs to recognize it as such. Remember, the truth will be in her actions, not in her words. This is not something that she can just sweep under the rug, pretend nothing happened and just let things go back to "normal." She needs to earn back trust and respect. That is going to take time.


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 8017 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
doctor49
Member
Member # 15847
Default  Posted: 2:19 AM, June 20th (Thursday)

I really can't tell what is real right now.

Continue with your plan to move ahead. Meet with your attorney. You need to know what your options are.

As for the rest you could go nuts trying to figure it out. Don't try too hard. See what happens. It's action not words you need to see.

She wants another try. Try at what? And more to the point why does she think you'd want to?

Remorse? Maybe. But remember what she's said before.

Realisation that you're serious and that that has implications she doesn't like? Quite possibly.

Except nothing has changed. Nor should your plan without major changes from your WW. Tell her what you want and need. And see what happens.


Posts: 243 | Registered: Aug 2007
jjct
Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 5:14 AM, June 20th (Thursday)

Re-read sadtoo's list until it's IN you.
Recognize that within yourself - you want to believe it's remorse. Pretty much, we all do that...
but WAIT.
True remorse is consistent ACTION over time.
NOT going from "it's done" & password-protecting on Tuesday to wanting sex on Thursday.

I want to congratulate you for sticking firm. Manning up.
Focus on yourself - stay strong. Cool, calm, collected.
A picture of manly strength and resolve.
Way to go joe!

Let this strengthen you:

You do know what is real - within you - the MAN.
That is the focus on yourself part.
You are no longer guessing about your reality, because your reality is within you. Your strength.

I am impressed. You swatted away her attempt to get you to back down with sex, seeing it for what it is - a manipulative tool.
Stronger than Samson.
Not many of us guys can say that.
Falling for that kept me tangled & fooled for way too long.
Major, MAJOR PROPS TO YOU!

Now, sadtoo's list.
Do it.
You da man!


Posts: 6572 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Freeme
Member
Member # 31946
Default  Posted: 6:20 AM, June 20th (Thursday)

Just wanted to clarify a few things in the list above.
3) She writes a no-contact letter to the OM. Make sure the delivery method is reliable.
Make sure you see the letter before its sent.

4) His wife is informed.

She shouldn't care about this is she is serious about staying together. Also, you will have another set of eyes watching emails...

Also, Great job at being strong.


Posts: 221 | Registered: Apr 2011 | From: Washington DC
refuz2bavictim
Member
Member # 27176
Default  Posted: 6:35 AM, June 20th (Thursday)

She is all of a sudden remourseful

That isn't remorse. That is fear and regret at having been caught. My guess is that she underestimated your strength and will to move forward. Her manipulations have worked thus far, and you are effectively undermining them right now. Stay the course.

I suspect she thought she could continue to have both. And now that you pulled that fantasy apart, she is fearful and grasping onto what she considers the "safe" or "sure" option. Keep doing what your doing. It's like an antibiotic, just because you are seeing results and some of the symptoms have abated, doesn't mean you should stop taking the pills. You still need to finish the full course so you don't leave the actual infection behind to replicate itself at some later date.

True Remorse is going to take a while.



BS:ME DDay: 7/18/09 Last of TT 7/11/10
MOW's EA/PA all were my "friends" but one


Posts: 2372 | Registered: Jan 2010
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 6:42 AM, June 20th (Thursday)

Joe,

The betrayed spouse mantra is pray for sun – prepare for rain.

You don’t need to decide what you want right now. But there are plenty of actions you can take that will/might help you reach a decision. Things that help you move out from where you are right now. Think of it this way: Imagine you and your wife are in a boat in the middle of a great lake. The boat sinks and you can see land a great distance away. Swim north land might be 10 miles away. Swim south and land might be 9 miles away. But you are not certain, you don’t know the currents, you really don’t know if north or south is the correct, easiest and/or shortest way to safety. In fact – you really don’t know if you CAN swim that many miles… But right where you are in the middle of the lake all that’s happening is that you are wasting energy treading water and your WW is threatening to pull you down by clinging on to you…
In this situation then knowledge would definitely make things easier. If you KNEW a rescue helicopter was heading your way. If you KNEW that the currents made the 10 mile swim easier. If you KNEW that two miles to the east was a reef you could climb onto…
But without that knowledge the ONLY 100% wrong thing to do would be to tread water and do nothing. That would only end with you both drowning.

That is where you are right now. By doing absolutely nothing you simply will drown. So use this time to gather info, to prepare for rain.

I can’t strongly enough encourage you to expose. You should definitely 100% tell his wife. I would also strongly suggest you make a complaint to the gym he is training in and providing his “services” at. Will this be embarrassing? Hell yes. But it will also make it very clear to him and your wife that this sort of behavior is not accepted by you in any way or form. Just go to the gym, ask for the manager and have a short one-on-one. In both cases then DO NOT tell your wife your intentions and/or that you have done these things. Just do them and then see if they have consequences. [The odds are 99/100 that the manager will tell you he can’t intervene in personal issues, you will threaten to make sure everyone knows what’s going on and that after you leave he will call the OM and give him a warning. End of story. But it WILL shake OM and make him realize his actions have consequences - encouraging him to leave your wife be.]

You should also keep your appointment with the attorney. You simply need to know your rights. You don’t need to file or to reach any decision. You simply need to get info and to digest it.

Go get STD tested. You could suggest your wife gets tested and definitely make it clear to her that until and unless she gets tested there won’t be any sex or reconciliation. But you simply make your appointment and go – once again with no fanfare, no reminders to your wife, no demand she goes (until and unless she asks for reconciliation).

Finally – regarding the NC letter. The NC letter is short, non-emotional and simple. It’s not “our love is not meant to be” or “in another world our souls will flounder on the beaches” bullshit. It’s simple and direct:
“OM –Our affair hurt my husband and damaged my family. I want to reconcile my marriage and will focus all my efforts on that. I will not be contacting you in any way or form and request that you respect this and do not contact me in any way or form. Any contact or attempt to contact me will be shared with my husband and can lead to legal action”

[This message edited by Bigger at 6:44 AM, June 20th (Thursday)]


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5546 | Registered: Sep 2005
Ghostrider
Member
Member # 32604
Default  Posted: 7:49 AM, June 20th (Thursday)

FYI...she probably needs to get tested twice. Once now and again in six months. HIV has a long incubation period.


BH (me), WW (her), 2 boys

"You will never be the same. You accept it. You will never have closure. There is no such a word as closure. Closure does not exist. Life is different. Now you get to choose what you're going to do with it."


Posts: 434 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: United States
Happydays
Member
Member # 38681
Default  Posted: 8:28 AM, June 20th (Thursday)

Hi Joe,
Have you spoken to the OBS yet?
If not please do. Don't tell your WW you're gonna.
All the best. You are doing fine.


BH 33
FWW 32
DS: 3 year old.
Dday 10/14/2012
No remorse so:
Divorced 02/15/2013. No alimony, no CS, got apartment. Won all battles and mind games off the courts.

Posts: 294 | Registered: Mar 2013
joeinfl
New Member
Member # 39583
Default  Posted: 8:41 AM, June 20th (Thursday)

She tells me two days ago that she wants out, her life is miserable, etc...She shows what looks like remorse last night and crawls into my bed upstairs last night (still not sure how I said no). The. This morning she says she really wants to give it a try to make it work. I remain unemotional and not interested in committing to anything. She emailed a no contact email to the guy a few weeks ago when this first happened. Ironically he sent the same type of email back to her. So that has been checked off, she swears she has had no contact with this guy (even though she put her password back on her phone when we were arguing a few days ago-she disabled that again soon after when I told her that was a deal beaker.)

My problem is that I agree with her that we did argue a lot prior to this event and things weren't going that well (not bad enough to justify her actions though-more like disagreements when you you are trying to deal with normal stressors like tree little kids and bills). I was ready to move forward with a D an now she is telling me she wants it to work. I am meeting with my attorney tomorrow and planning on moving forward with the process of filing. But now I am feeling a little guilty based upon her now telling me she wants to try to make things work.


Posts: 37 | Registered: Jun 2013
joeinfl
New Member
Member # 39583
Default  Posted: 9:19 AM, June 20th (Thursday)

I still haven't worked up the nerve to tell the om's wife yet. I know I need to but feel so bad about how she is going to feel. Since I mentally committed to seeing the attorney two nights ago my wife is in full remorse/reconciliation mode, trying to initiate sex, saying she wants to work it out. She sent the OM a NC text two weeks ago when I first found her sexting and swears she has had no contact with him. Now that I am ready to pull the plug, she is coming back to me and I feel guilty about continuing with making plans with the attorney to file. She has said and done enough bad things that if I don't divorce her for this, what would I divorce her for? She has made it clear that she has been unhappy over the last few years, and it has been no bed of roses for me either. I just find it odd that the closer I get to ending it, the closer she tries to get to me. Sometimes I wonder if I am just being played. I don't have a lot of confidence in my intuition right now, especially since I had no idea she was cheating on me.

Posts: 37 | Registered: Jun 2013
JustWow
Member
Member # 19636
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, June 20th (Thursday)

OW's BH called me and outed them. I thought he was kind, but misguided. He provided a few pieces of evidence, ....then I knew he was kind and compassionate and brave. He and I kept in contact for a while, he was a true ally.

I "knew" something was up before then, but I likely never would have KNOWN if he didn't call.

DO IT.

It also kills the joy of the secret part of the A, the light of day has a way of clearing out unicorn farts....

TELL HIS BW.


BW - Reconciling

edited for typos (I always have to!)


Posts: 3616 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Midwest
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 10:40 AM, June 20th (Thursday)

"She says the sex hasn't been "hot" for several years"

This statement of blame shifting makes me see red! My WH whines/complains and has the same excuses for having A.. I hate that the un remorseful WS thinks that having an A is a trivial occurrance and that the BS should get over it quickly..

Using such excuses as lack of good sex in the marriage, etc,, etc shows that the WS is blame shifting and using their choice of having an A as blackmail to get what they want from the BS..

The last thing I would want to do, I repeat the last thing I would want to do, is have sex with a spouse with that mindset.

In the case that you decide to try R it is a good idea to see an attorney first..Make it an absolute condition of R that there has to be a post nup in place..

I have also seen cases of BS demanding divorce from WS with the completion of a permanent and fair financial/ custody settlement..This was a requirement of the BS BEFORE he or she felt safe enough to go forward and out on a limb to trust the WS enough for R to take place. They remained divorced in the eyes of the law, but renewed their commitment to each other and lived their lives as if they were still married..
In other words the WS has to show that he/she will DO WHATEVER IT TAKES FOR HOWEVER LONG IT TAKES to make the BS feel secure within the relationship again.

I have the feeling that your WS is missing the comforts of home....

(((Hugs)))) I wish you good luck in whatever choice you make..

[This message edited by doggiediva at 6:48 PM, June 20th (Thursday)]


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1179 | Registered: Nov 2011
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 10:59 AM, June 20th (Thursday)

****" Your situation is comparable to the guy that caught his arm in a crevice in Utah. You know – the guy that cut it off after a week or so. I guess he hoped he didn’t have to. I guess that given a choice he would have preferred keeping both arms. But he didn’t HAVE that choice. He had to choose from the options he had and they were limited and bad; die or cut. That’s where you are"****

I don't mean to thread jack but I just read the above statement upthread a minute ago.. It made such an impact in my mind that I am in tears..

I am gonna have to repeat this statement over and over in my head and act accordingly..
Because I have been living in an in house separation for a long time, which is toxic for the soul, I am in a very bad place and spiraling down..
I have the feeling that this wise advice is going to save my life!

[This message edited by doggiediva at 1:14 PM, June 20th (Thursday)]


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1179 | Registered: Nov 2011
1Faith
Member
Member # 38975
Cool  Posted: 11:29 AM, June 20th (Thursday)

Good for you Joe

I am happy that you were able to say no. It's hard because you seek the physical and emotional closeness with your spouse. NORMAL

It is interesting to me that she now wants to reconcile. What changed? You playing hard ball.

Please be cautious as she is manipulating this to tip the scales in her favor.

Guilt sucks but it is an emotion that she should own right now because her selfish decisions but you all in the position you are in.

You are in protection mode. Keep moving.

Curious have you contacted OM's wife? Please listen to everyone when we say you need to do this.

You are doing amazing. Stay strong and set your boundaries now and stick to your guns.

She may be waking up from the fog but she still has a lot of work to do and a lot to prove.

Good luck. Keep us posted.


"I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it." - Maya Angelou

Posts: 1137 | Registered: Apr 2013
1Faith
Member
Member # 38975
Default  Posted: 11:33 AM, June 20th (Thursday)

PS

Your wife needs to commit to IC too and figure out why she chose to cheat. Being unhappy isn't an excuse.

I would recommend IC for you too.

Take it slow. You don't have to make any final decisions today just get the information you need. Knowledge is power.

You also need tested for STD's.

Keep moving. You will make to the other side.


"I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it." - Maya Angelou

Posts: 1137 | Registered: Apr 2013
jtom
Member
Member # 35322
Default  Posted: 12:15 PM, June 20th (Thursday)

joeinfl, let me put my two cents in about telling the OM wife. Just do it. Its wrong thinking not to. You would want to know, right? In my case I told the OM wife an it immediately ended the affair. Then I sat back an watched the circus play out as the OM threw my STBXW under the bus, much to her dismay an then she had the OM betrayed wife to deal with. I should ve sold tickets. Regardless,if you are going to try for reconciliation or not, the OM wife needs to know. She could turn out to be a valuable ally. Like one other poster told you,its time to go nuclear,


ME(BH)HER(WW)LTA AT WORK.DISCOVERED AUGUST 2010. TWO SONS.DIVORCED HER. "THE BEST PREDICTER OF FUTURE BEHAVIOR IS PAST BEHAVIOR"

Posts: 89 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: somewhere in texas
toomanyregrets
Member
Member # 37740
Default  Posted: 12:40 PM, June 20th (Thursday)

The OM's wife needs to know what her WH has been doing to her and his family.
Go ahead and tell her.


BH - 64
fWW - 60

"Affairs are not mistakes, they are a series of deliberate choices." - CrappyLife


Posts: 466 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Upstate NY
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 1:03 PM, June 20th (Thursday)

I am going to chime in and say the same thing..Tell the OM's wife!

And see the lawyer and execute measures to protect yourself whether you R or D...If a post nup is valid in your state, I would go for it..Your WW's full cooperation or lack of cooperation in drafting a post nup agreement could give you some valuable clarity....


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1179 | Registered: Nov 2011
wonderingbull
Member
Member # 14833
Default  Posted: 1:40 PM, June 20th (Thursday)

Sometimes I wonder if I am just being played.

Yep Joe you are my man but, we've all seen this thousands of times before... (look at our member numbers)

Her reactions right now are just that... Reactions to your actions...

Don't you worry... She's not close to being remorseful... When she falls on the floor with mascara dripping down her face, hugging your leg and begging you to give her a chance, then you have someone to work with... Until then she's just humping your leg...

She's tried the sex bribe, she's tried to do some bargaining... She's tried to justify, blameshift and gaslight...

She's tried everything except throwing herself at the mercy of the court (you) and let the truth stand on it's own merits...

Beware my man... She still has her affair mask on... She is not your friend, partner or wife...

Tell the dirtbag's poor wife... She's probably been in knots knowing something's wrong and is simply getting fed the drivel many of us were fed.... Help her... Tell her...

WB


The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time...

James Taylor


Posts: 5976 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: A better place
2yrs+recovering
Member
Member # 31582
Default  Posted: 1:50 PM, June 20th (Thursday)

I still haven't worked up the nerve to tell the om's wife yet. I know I need to but feel so bad about how she is going to feel.

I totally understand the wavering...but, this is information that needs to be divulged and the sooner the better.

Take "our" advice and pull the tooth quick and swift.

The chips will fall and you will have an answer. This will also help you make your decisions.

Also, did you see the lawyer yet?


BS (me)59 FWH 71
Married 35 years
4 children and 3 grandchildren
5 yrs into R.
Now that he has changed and become the man he should have been all along, why should I start over?

Posts: 560 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: New Jersey
outtanowhere
Member
Member # 39001
Default  Posted: 2:52 PM, June 20th (Thursday)

joe,

It seems so clear to us out here watching this unfold what is going on but, I think it's a little ironic that since you have shown her that you are not willing to take the left overs, she now is changing tactics. I'm sure she has had some time to mull over this idea that things may really change in ways she didn't plan. She is manipulating you all over the place. I really don't think she knows what she wants but, when things start moving in a direction she is uncomfortable with she changes the approach. Cheaters lie & right now you cannot trust her! Trust only yourself & the good advice that you are being given!!!

I sincerly believe that she is still in the A & somewhere in that stupid fog she thinks she can come out a winner here. You sound like a nice gut & I sure hope you don't fall for it!

[This message edited by outtanowhere at 2:53 PM, June 20th (Thursday)]


BS - 57
SAWH - 60 multiple encounters with prostitutes and other sex workers
Married 37 years
Dday - 2/19/13 - found the emails
He promised me Heaven then put me thru hell

Posts: 724 | Registered: Apr 2013
MC_Jack
Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 3:13 PM, June 20th (Thursday)

She's probably been in knots knowing something's wrong and is simply getting fed the drivel many of us were fed.

^^^ This. This is what I found out when I called the poor gal, the other BS. I told her everything. It was the confimration she needed to take control of her life.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 867 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
bufffalo
Member
Member # 21854
Default  Posted: 3:37 PM, June 20th (Thursday)

She has made it clear that she has been unhappy over the last few years
,

Joe.....Dude, this is called "rewriting the marital history" to justify her actions - making her decision to bang another dude, somehow in her mind, your fault..Ya know, Bro...she deserve to be happy... . Yeah...im being a smart ass...

She sent the OM a NC text two weeks ago when I first found her sexting and swears she has had no contact with him.

Ok...not trying to break your balls here, but...yeah...always a "but". Did you see it?....surely your NOT taking her word on this....cheaters lie!!! You usually don't get the FULL truth this easy...can you verify this? Lots of affairs go underground at this point..(don't stick your head into the sand)....this is one reason why telling the other spouse is so important...you will have another set of eyes watching the APs.


You are doing pretty good Joe.....this is NOT an 8 second ride..(rodeo joke - get it?)..the whistle has NOT blown (another Rodeo metaphor)...this bullshit is gonna take a while to get past....months at least...maybe even years...

I just find it odd that the closer I get to ending it, the closer she tries to get to me.

Yep....classic response to a "shits and giggles" affair when hit with a really hard 180...you are not gonna "nice guy" back into your arms...begging, pleading and crying will not work, Bro....time to go "Alpha male" on her...(nope - I do nt advocate eating your kids)....let her know what you will tolerate and what you wont...(banging another dude is a huge no-no).....dealbreaker for some - that's OK too....for some men it is...but if the WS "Sees the light", gets into IC to determine why the A took place, owns her shit in making the decision to cheat, shows total remorse, etc...R is possible...It can happen...

Tell the other BS....its OK to want to R....based on her level of "doing all the right things" to win you back....verify everything..cell phone bills, passwords, everything....I verified everything my FWW did for a long while....everytime I checked on the FWW and found "nothing"....another brick in the wall of trust got placed.....this takes a LONG TIME....

keep us posted...

Bufffalo


DDay 9/25/2008
R started 11/10/08
BH-me

Posts: 5822 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Texas
hatefulnow
Member
Member # 35603
Default  Posted: 4:31 PM, June 20th (Thursday)

If you follow some of my posts you'll glean a bit about what I went through. I was every kind of dick imaginable to my wife. It still surprises me that she even stayed. While I do regret being deliberately hurtful, even to the point of using my kids as weapons against her, I don't regret telling the OM wife or anything that happened to him since. His wife is thankful to me and we speak occasionally, although I'm going to be cutting her off soon under the advice of IC/MC. I think it's best too. If you want to be sure the A is over, drop the bomb! You could just be in a false R, which can rub salt and hot pepper juice into you wounds.

When I told OM spouse, my motives weren't noble. He hurt me and I wanted to hurt him back. But it forced the A into the open and it instantly extracted my wife's head from her backside! She saw OM for what he was and herself for what she was...on the surface anyway. I now have my wife back. There are still issues, her shame, my anger, both the results of our pain. Tears, shouts, screams, laughs, HB...lots of HB

My point is that until the A is COMPLETELY EXPOSED you can't know where you are at, not really anyway.


Posts: 127 | Registered: May 2012
cissi
Member
Member # 21737
Default  Posted: 4:34 PM, June 20th (Thursday)

I think what might be happening is at first when you found out about the affair she truly thought she would be riding into the sunset with her boyfriend. But, after he knew YOU knew, he most likely dumped her as quickly as possible. Now she has nowhere to go if you divorce.

I don't know what advice to give you. You could go ahead with the divorce proceedings, and if and when things do change, you can always withdraw them.

[This message edited by cissi at 4:35 PM, June 20th (Thursday)]


Posts: 1411 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Southern California
joeinfl
New Member
Member # 39583
Default  Posted: 5:36 PM, June 20th (Thursday)

I saw my attorney today, WS does not know I went, and I want to keep the element of surprise as I am leaning toward filing. My attorneys are recommending not reaching out to the OM's wife since I am in such a strong position from a custody standpoint and they don't want to give WS any ammunition, ie. saying I was being threatening in any way. Florida is a no-fault state so unfortunately her indiscretions won't damage her financially. However, my attorneys will reserve the right to depose the OM. If my WS still cares for the OM, and he hasn't been found out by his bw, we might be able to leverage the settlement a small amount by offering to save him from being deposed. I recognize that isnt fair to the OMS. However, if my goal is to R, and I don't file, then by all means it makes sense to contact oms. Since I have picked my testicles up off the floor and begun taking some control of the situation and my emotions, WS has become an angel. I realistically plan for D, and I think WS is (finally) picking up on the potential loss of her gravy train. Of course her moods have been swinging as much as mine, so who knows what it will be like when I get home.

Posts: 37 | Registered: Jun 2013
Ghostrider
Member
Member # 32604
Default  Posted: 6:13 PM, June 20th (Thursday)

Have you thought about a way to anonymously warn the BW? Not to be vengeful, but to let her know she is exposed to risks. Your WW may not be the OM's only A. AP's rarely use protection. There are more reasons for notifying the other BS than just exposing the A.


BH (me), WW (her), 2 boys

"You will never be the same. You accept it. You will never have closure. There is no such a word as closure. Closure does not exist. Life is different. Now you get to choose what you're going to do with it."


Posts: 434 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: United States
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 7:02 PM, June 20th (Thursday)

Good idea to call the OBW anonymously from a pay as you go phone with number that would be difficult to trace back to you..


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1179 | Registered: Nov 2011
outtanowhere
Member
Member # 39001
Default  Posted: 7:20 PM, June 20th (Thursday)

The decision to not tell that poor woman is a bitter pill for me to swallow. I knew something was wrong for a very long time & while it would have been equally as devastating as it eventually was, I would have been eternally grateful that someone had enough moral integrity to let me in on the secret. I understand not tipping your hand but, I feel so badly for that POS's wife!


BS - 57
SAWH - 60 multiple encounters with prostitutes and other sex workers
Married 37 years
Dday - 2/19/13 - found the emails
He promised me Heaven then put me thru hell

Posts: 724 | Registered: Apr 2013
joeinfl
New Member
Member # 39583
Default  Posted: 7:32 PM, June 20th (Thursday)

Tonight she suggested we go out to dinner tomorrow night and she wants to "reconnect". Is it normal to not believe her and to not want any part of trying to reconcile? I would have loved to see her act this way a week ago, now I am over it!

Posts: 37 | Registered: Jun 2013
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 7:11 AM, June 21st (Friday)

Good Morning Joe,

It is normal for the BS to be crystal clear that he or she wants to R, wants to D, or to be full of mixed feelings. D-day is a life-changing event, and it can take some time to sort through our feelings. It is absolutely normal for a BS to not belive anything that comes out of the mouth of the WS since they have proven themselves to be liars.

A week ago she did not want to be with you. She told you she did not want to show remorse because sghe did not like you. Now she wants to reconnect. Who knows where the truth is.

If you do not want to R and are leaning towards D you have your answer. Ignore her and proceed with D.

I would have loved to see her act this way a week ago, now I am over it!

act is the key word here, that may be all this is. Who knows? Before considereing reconnecting, I recomend you look to see that your WW is owning and working on her issues. Is she seeing an IC to figure out why she was OK with having an A, and what she was trying to gain through the A? Is she trying to figure out new boundaries and coping mechanisms to prevent a repeat A? Is she reaching out to you demonstrating transparency, honesty, answering all your questions, providing a timeline of the A, giving you access to her phone, her email, her Facebook?

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 7:12 AM, June 21st (Friday)]


FBS 54
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4128 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 7:26 AM, June 21st (Friday)

Joe,

I‘m not surprised at the attorneys advice. And yes – it IS possible that not telling OM wife just MIGHT give you a eve-so-slight better point IF this goes to divorce and IF there are issues with custody. But IMHO it’s like saying that carrying a rabbit’s foot might give you better luck when paragliding.
The attorneys advice is totally 100% geared at making your position in divorce better. It takes no consideration to you possibly wanting to reconcile. If YOU are totally 100% committed to divorce then follow the attorneys advice. And her suggestion to have a date – well ignore it. After all your relationship now is purely as former and ex with only the formalities left.

Look – I guess I’m one of the hard-nuts here on SI when it comes to dealing with infidelity. I truly believe that the absolute best way is to accept the situation as it is. That there isn’t anything we can do that MAKES the WS change. That all we can do is create a situation where WE move out of infidelity and in doing so we present something that the WS sees, remembers, wants… and possibly follows. So by following my advice and my long speech you tell your wife – Yes – I DO want to reconcile BUT even less I want to share you. So therefore you are moving out of infidelity and thereby out of marriage.

I think that we KNOW when it’s over. In your case I sense a wish that the marriage could reconcile. So refusing any attempt by her to reconcile wouldn’t make sense. BUT you need some minimum assurances before you should even open the slightest to reconciliation. I mentioned those assurances in an earlier post.

OK – HOW you tell the OMW is the key-issue. You don’t threaten to do it. You don’t send her an anonymous post. You don’t scream at her that her husband is screwing around… You phone, are gentle, make sure that she understands that you feel a moral obligation that she knows, tell her your story, offer her some way of getting back to you and then thank her. You don’t have to argue with her, convince her, offer proof, and refute her if she doesn’t believe… Don’t make any demands on her keeping OM away or anything of the sort.

Joe – frankly until and unless you tell the OMW then I’m simply assuming you have decided to tread water and HOPE that some miracle rescue helicopter comes before you drown. Not going to happen…

IF you want to reconcile… Then tell her that while she hasn’t committed to the marriage then there really isn’t a need for a date. That until she can tell you that she wants to remain in the marriage because she WANTS to remain in the marriage. No financial issues. Not because of the kids. Not because of social stigma. Not to save the OM from exposure… But ONLY because she acknowledges the affair was wrong and that she is willing to accept REASONABLE conditions while you initiate reconciliation… then a date isn’t really feasible.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5546 | Registered: Sep 2005
outtanowhere
Member
Member # 39001
Default  Posted: 7:36 AM, June 21st (Friday)

joe,

I see you wife as a spoiled little brat who has taken for granted the things that a lot of women have to forfeit to survive. I would have given my right arm to stay at home & raise my children. Besides marrying WH It's the single biggest regret I have in my life. I have always had to work to help pay the bills & here I am 35 years later still doing it & knowing I can't even keep my home should R with us not be successful.

Your wife is not being genuine. She is acting like a little girl who has her eye on something that she wants & now has to play the part to get it. Please just turn a deaf ear to her. You may not need to do this forever but for now it's absolutely crucial that you don't waver! She hopefully will begin to see that manipulation is not working which will force her to get real & start acting like an adult. I sure hope so for you & your children's sake. You will know the difference between the childlike games she is playing now & a real commitment as a wife & mother.

It's so unfair that you have to be strong & in charge when you are at your weakest, most vulnerable time in your existence but, this will make or break things. You can always R even if you end up actually going thru with the D so please don't think that it's really all that final. You really need to show her once & for all that you aren't playing around & if she even has an inkling that she might be making a mistake by letting you walk, she needs to get her ass on board! Now!

Good luck man! You are putting one foot in front of the other & even tho it may not feel like it, you are doing great! We really are hoping the best for you!


BS - 57
SAWH - 60 multiple encounters with prostitutes and other sex workers
Married 37 years
Dday - 2/19/13 - found the emails
He promised me Heaven then put me thru hell

Posts: 724 | Registered: Apr 2013
joeinfl
New Member
Member # 39583
Default  Posted: 7:48 AM, June 21st (Friday)

Just taking a moment to let this advice sink in and to thank everyone for taking the time to help me begin recovering from this. I am so fortunate I have found this site, thanks!

Posts: 37 | Registered: Jun 2013
Twitchy
Member
Member # 25393
Default  Posted: 8:18 AM, June 21st (Friday)

Joe, No matter what you do, the other BS needs to now.

Here’s the playing field from your perspective.

If your plan is D, then stay the course but notify the other BS afterwards. Any anonymous contact will likely come back to you anyway. She needs to know that the light at the end of the tunnel isn’t the sunny pasture she thinks it is. It’s the oncoming train. Her POSOM put her on that track. Help her get off it.

But if you decide you want to R you need to tell the other BS ASAP. R is impossible unless the A is truly over. Nothing ensures that more than informing the other BS and dragging the A into the light of day where it can wither away like a slug.

Now here's the playing field from the other BS's perspective.

If she suspects or knows the POSOM is cheating your helping her to be better informed or to get out of the crippling uncertainty we all here know so well.

If she has no clue, then the train analogy still applies. You're letting her know about trouble she isn't even aware is coming. How can she make good choices about her future when she has no idea what a bad position POSOM has put her in.

[This message edited by Twitchy at 8:22 AM, June 21st (Friday)]


BH(me)-49, FWW-43,
D-Day #1 - Oct 2007 - On-Line EA leading to a failed rendez-vous
D-Day #2 - Nov 2008 - In person EA caught early.

Away you will go, sailing in a race among the ruins.
If you plan to face tomorrow, do it soon. Gordon Lightfoot


Posts: 627 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Ontario - Canada
UndecidedinMA
Member
Member # 33732
Default  Posted: 8:54 AM, June 21st (Friday)

This site was the only thing that kept me sane following DDay. Just keep coming back, the people here are great.

Your wife is panicking, she sees that you have now taken the control from her & that scares the crap out of her. How dare you take charge of your life and not let her dictate the terms. Stay strong!

please tell the OM BS, it is not for revenge but for her safety. You say she has kids, how would you feel if he ends up with a terminal condition that could have been treated if she just knew she was exposed? Please tell her for her & her childrens sake. You would not be blowing up her marriage her POS H already did that.


ME - BSO
Him - FWSO
OW - DBC Xwife
DDAY 09/14/11 ONS w/DBCxWOW with 4 mos EA
Solidly in R

Posts: 1005 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: MA
cliffside
Member
Member # 38803
Default  Posted: 8:56 AM, June 21st (Friday)

I'm going to add my vote to anonymously telling the OM's wife. She deserves to know. If you decide to Reconcile she needs to be 100% remorseful and transparent. It's the only way. If you want to R, I would give her these ultimatums:

1) She must go into IC and figure out why she did this. It had nothing to do with you.
2) You need to do MC together
3) You have access to any and all electronic accounts (cell phone, email, Facebook)
4) No more nanny! She's a stay at home Mom, she shouldn't need a full-time nanny. The Nanny is what allowed her to galavant around. You need to give her a dose of real life and make her focus on your marriage and kids.

Good luck, we're all here for you.


Me: BS 39
Him: WH 41
2 Kids
D-Day: 2/3/13
Broke NC 3/14
Very skeptically in R for now...

Posts: 269 | Registered: Mar 2013
toomanyregrets
Member
Member # 37740
Default  Posted: 10:05 AM, June 21st (Friday)

Now that she's about to loose her "gravy train", as you said, she's really scared.
WS's never think of the consiquences of their actions. What a way to learn a lesson.
If yopu want to R then take her up on her offer and see how she acts. If you want to D, then keep on doing what your doing.
At this point the ball is in your court.


BH - 64
fWW - 60

"Affairs are not mistakes, they are a series of deliberate choices." - CrappyLife


Posts: 466 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Upstate NY
2yrs+recovering
Member
Member # 31582
Default  Posted: 10:26 AM, June 21st (Friday)

I just thought of this, if she truly wants to R, and wants to show her commitment, why not let her inform the other spouse as an apology.

Why should they be off the hook and better yet, demand that the op tell his spouse or you will.

I am so tired of us, the BS needing to figure it all out and then figure out how to deal with all the crap of recovery.

My FWH did not have other spouses to tell, but if he did I would have made him do it, I also told him to find the therapists and put in writing what he was going to do to fix the mess he made.

[This message edited by 2yrs+recovering at 10:27 AM, June 21st (Friday)]


BS (me)59 FWH 71
Married 35 years
4 children and 3 grandchildren
5 yrs into R.
Now that he has changed and become the man he should have been all along, why should I start over?

Posts: 560 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: New Jersey
movingforward13
Member
Member # 38405
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, June 21st (Friday)

Am I the only one thinking "fuck that bitch?" She was riding another man's dick and trying to make it seem like you are the problem. She gave you her ass to kiss. I am sorry, but I am angry for you. Her life was so good, now she realizes what she is about to lose.

I know, I know, this is the wayward script. They all follow the same bull shit script. If you do decide to reconcile with her, she better be kissing your ass begging. Anything less is another DDay waiting to happen. She isn't remorseful.

[This message edited by movingforward13 at 12:46 PM, June 21st (Friday)]


Once a cheater, always a cheater happens when your cheater doesn't have remorse.
Regret is not remorse- know the difference!

Posts: 638 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: DC
joeinfl
New Member
Member # 39583
Default  Posted: 3:48 PM, June 21st (Friday)

Surprisingly, I haven't even been able to get angry towards her yet. I feel like my body is still in shock, and I have more of a feeling of anxiety and Heavy stress than anything else. Surprisingly, I even feel a little bit of guilt, because I entertained thoughts of cheating on my wife during this marriage, which has had more downs than ups. She has admitted that she has been unhappy with me for a long time and it is very easy to feel that from her. We almost separated a few years ago after the birth of our second child. I thought we had been doing better over the last year or so, but obviously I was mistaken. I feel deep in my heart that if I had been given an opportunity to be unfaithful to her, I may have taken advantage of it. I am conflicted, and maybe even willing to give her the benefit of the doubt, because I understand how that affair could have happened. The flipside is that she is the one that actually had the affair, and she is the one that needs to the atone for this. And I just don't think I can trust her, plus we were not in a great place to begin with. The thing that hurts the most is that I thought I was being a great guy. I'm a very good provider, I'm great with the kids, and I've always treated her with respect, even if I didn't give her the attention she felt that she needed. I definitely don't think I am perfect, but I don't believe I deserve what happened to me either.

Posts: 37 | Registered: Jun 2013
Phoenix519
Member
Member # 26186
Default  Posted: 4:08 PM, June 21st (Friday)

(((Joe)))) SO sorry that you are here but I'm sure you already know it's the greatest place no one wants to be.

One thing I would like for you to recognize. I've been here more than 4 years and a major theme I've noticed is that the WS seem to not have enough responsibility, get board and are lazy and find themselves in an affair. Those are not excuses but highlight how selfish they are.

At the time of my FWH affair, we had three young kids. A son in academic leagues, two daughters in competitive cheer-leading, one of them (his from a previous marriage) is insulin dependent diabetic who was non-compliant with that and a huge behavioral handful. I work full time, I took care of EVERYTHING. He came home, was served dinner and then sat on his computer for the rest of the night while I sorted through blood sugar scores, figured out insulin dosages, investigated the latest treatment options to help her manage her illness better, homework, ran all errands, paid all the bills...you get the picture.

You don't have to decide anything right now. You have a lot to think about but if and when you make the decision to try to R...

FIRE THE EFFIN NANNY!

Hell, do it right now. Make her get off her lazy ass and contribute to the home, the kids and your marriage. If you don't take any other advice, take that to the bank.

I put the brakes on everything when I found out. My two older children are out on their own but our youngest is 16 and heavily into soccer. He manages her team, is on the board of directors for the club, is the IT person for the website, coordinates all of the tryouts and offers...She's also on a Super 20 league in the summer where he never misses a game or practice and it's traveling out of state and the country. For her school league, he paints the fields and does upkeep for every game.

You know what? He couldn't be happier now or closer with the kids.

Her disconnect is not from you, it's from life. Take the silver spoon out of her mouth until she learns to appreciate what an amazing and wonderful husband she's been lucky enough to find in this life.

Many of us here would, as another poster said, give their right arm for the privileges she's taken for granted.

When she spends some time on her hands and knees scrubbing the toilet, instead of what she's been doing on them, maybe she will pull her head out of her ass and get her shit together before it's too late.


Be strong my friend. Post here whenever you need to. Sending huge amounts of mojo and strength your way.


Posts: 581 | Registered: Nov 2009
outtanowhere
Member
Member # 39001
Default  Posted: 4:58 PM, June 21st (Friday)

You are in shock that's why you really need to listen to the very good advice you've been given. Everyone here knows the sting of what you are going thru & wants to help you get thru it to your best possible outcome.

I thought the same thing you are saying. My H & I were like roommates for the last 5 years. Somewhere in my head I thought even he wouldn't blame me if someone came along & offered me something "real". The thing is I DIDN'T DO IT & neither did you. Somehow we had enought moral integrity to stay inside the bounds of our marriage so please don't use that argument. You would be letting her off the hook for the terrible disrespect she has shown you.

Head up & poker face my friend! Let her sweat really, really hard!!!!


BS - 57
SAWH - 60 multiple encounters with prostitutes and other sex workers
Married 37 years
Dday - 2/19/13 - found the emails
He promised me Heaven then put me thru hell

Posts: 724 | Registered: Apr 2013
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 5:32 PM, June 21st (Friday)

Hell, I would have given my right arm had my unremorseful WH put in his equal share of work to accumulate the marital assets/ savings for our household during all of the years of our marriage..He has NOTHING in the way of assets/savings/pension to show for a man that is in his late 50's

[This message edited by doggiediva at 5:41 PM, June 21st (Friday)]


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1179 | Registered: Nov 2011
joeinfl
New Member
Member # 39583
Default  Posted: 10:07 PM, June 21st (Friday)

So tonight she suggested that she hire a baby sitter since the nanny is off at 5pm and meet me for dinner after my work. I said OK, I am still barely willing to make this work. So she shows up 15minutes late and says that she went to a store prior to arriving at the restaurant. I knew she was lying, and I bluffed and said I knew she wasnt at a store because I had surviliance on her. Then she caved and said she was actually at a bar with friends, and didn't want to tell me. I actually believe her because one of the girls that she says she met texted her on her phone about it, so I am willing to believe it wasnt a rendevous with the OM. However, the fact that she lied, saying that she didn't want me to get the wrong idea, drives me insance. What is it going to take for this woman to realize that I need the truth. I am really starting to feel confused and down about this, like there is really no solution other than D. She doesnt get that i would have been fine if she just said she was meeting friends at a bar for drink before coming over.

Posts: 37 | Registered: Jun 2013
bufffalo
Member
Member # 21854
Default  Posted: 10:31 PM, June 21st (Friday)

What is it going to take for this woman to realize that I need the truth.

Tell the other BS, file for divorce, and get into a serious 180 mode.

You are not gonna "nice guy" her back into your marriage.....not trying to beat you up, Bro - you wife is already doing that.

Draw that line in the dirt....set your limitations...convey them to her - once!! Hit that 180....

My FWW humped my leg until she was holding the divorce papers in her hand...

Are you sure that your WW is not in contact with the BF?? Are you positive??? Your wife, at this time, is NOT a good source of this information....

Good luck....keep us posted...

Bufffalo


DDay 9/25/2008
R started 11/10/08
BH-me

Posts: 5822 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Texas
refuz2bavictim
Member
Member # 27176
Default  Posted: 7:06 AM, June 22nd (Saturday)

She doesnt get that i would have been fine if she just said she was meeting friends at a bar for drink before coming over.

A remorseful person who wanted to reconnect and repair the damage they had done, would NOT go for drinks with friends first. They would put YOU first. They would spend every moment and do everything in their power to help you.

"Reconnect" probably means something more along the lines of "regain control". This isn't even close to remorse. Her words are telling you what you want to hear, and her actions are showing you the truth of who she is right now. 15 minutes late and a lie to go along with it, says to me that you aren't well placed on the priority list.

And.... I don't think you should be fine with her going for drinks at any rate. It's not what a person does when they feel threatened with divorce. Even she wasn't fine with it, so she lied. She knows she is half-assing this so called attempt at "remorse".

I think that the advice you have been given and the wisdom shared by some of the members who have seen and heard it "all", would be most valuable to you If you can bring yourself to follow it. About the only thing that may snap her out of this, will be you standing firm and her KNOWING that you will not waver. I think you are trying to stand firm, but really wanting to reconcile, and she probably senses this in your actions and your willingness to do things like meet for dinner. This is probably giving her the idea that she can regain some control and put everything back to normal with the minimum amount of effort.
You deserve the maximum amount of effort.

180 and exposure of the AP is really going to give you the best shot at R.


BS:ME DDay: 7/18/09 Last of TT 7/11/10
MOW's EA/PA all were my "friends" but one


Posts: 2372 | Registered: Jan 2010
Eer80
New Member
Member # 39627
Default  Posted: 8:15 AM, June 22nd (Saturday)

Hi, All - new BS here. DDay was two days ago; discovered my wife of 20 years was having an affair with a good friend of ours. WS says she fell in love with the OM but never stopped loving me; I'm having a very hard time accepting that. Much remorse from her since; I want to R and we're going to go to counseling, but my concept of what love really is doesn't leave much room for accepting that she could have loved me and him at the same time. I think, and told her, that that may be just something she convinced herself of to rationalize doing something she knew was so wrong. I'd be grateful for anyone here's thoughts or experiences on this.


Posts: 1 | Registered: Jun 2013
joeinfl
New Member
Member # 39583
Default  Posted: 8:55 AM, June 22nd (Saturday)

Eer80, I would recommend starting a new post for your situation, otherwise we are all going to be confused. Speaking of confused, my WW sees me this morning and says she is sorry she ruined everything and knows that I will never be able to trust her again. It sounds like she wants me to feel sorry for her.

Posts: 37 | Registered: Jun 2013
1Faith
Member
Member # 38975
Default  Posted: 9:41 AM, June 22nd (Saturday)

Joe

She does want you to feel sorry for her because then she is off the hook.

She is not close to remorseful she wants to rug sweep this and get back to life previously in progress.

Keep the 180 in motion and tell the other spouse now.


"I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it." - Maya Angelou

Posts: 1137 | Registered: Apr 2013
jjct
Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 9:42 AM, June 22nd (Saturday)

joe, 180.
Going out for din din is not that.

Going from lying to you to 'sorry' in the space of mere hours is not remorse.

It's only confusing to you.
Don't
Even
Think
About
Changing
Her

sabe?


Posts: 6572 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
outtanowhere
Member
Member # 39001
Default  Posted: 10:16 AM, June 22nd (Saturday)

You can do this joe! You are doing the grueling work of extracting her head from her ass but, your heart is trying to shout over your head! Don't feel sorry for her! I'm sure she is sorry but, unfortunately, that should not be enough to let down your guard! Don't trust her! She is maneuvering all over the map trying to regain control of the situation. Don't let her! You've come this far so go the distance. You really don't have much to lose except for a cheating, unrepentant wife. I so hate this for you. It makes me so angry to watch women like this in action!


BS - 57
SAWH - 60 multiple encounters with prostitutes and other sex workers
Married 37 years
Dday - 2/19/13 - found the emails
He promised me Heaven then put me thru hell

Posts: 724 | Registered: Apr 2013
Take2
Member
Member # 23890
Default  Posted: 10:37 AM, June 22nd (Saturday)

So she lied to you last night, but today is bemoaning that you will never trust her...

There are times when the whole surreal package, makes your brain stutter.

I remember a really calm moment hit me in the midst of an argument when the bullshit was flying like a troop of crazed monkeys... It was like an out of body experience,
I remember wanting to reach out and rap my WH on the forehead just to see if there was anything real or vaguely human there.

And I had the distinct impression that if I looked really hard, I'd find a curtain with some cowardly old geezer pushing button, pulling levers, and screaming into a microphone.

Until she gives you something real - you got nothing to work with.


"We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned, so as to have the life that is waiting for us." Joseph Campbell...So, If fear was not a factor - what would you do?

Posts: 4113 | Registered: May 2009 | From: New England
keptmyword
Member
Member # 35526
Default  Posted: 11:01 AM, June 22nd (Saturday)

Joe,

You have received the greatest of advice from many veterans who have experienced your very situation. I have been through an almost identical situation as well.

That said, I cannot emphasize the following enough:

1) File for divorce IMMEDIATELY.

2) Have her served with the divorce papers.

3) If you are inclined to want to attempt reconciliation, then inform her adultery partner's wife IMMEDIATELY. So long as his wife doesn't know, you can count that their delusional fantasy is still in play.

4) The sooner you do this the better. More than likely, she will really feel the guilt and shame after the consequence of seeing the real, authentic Dissolution of Marriage Petition papers in her hands. This period of guilt and shame can be leverage in getting a more favorable out-of-court settlement for you. Believe it or not, since she is not working, you will probably end up being forced to pay all her legal fees and for all mediation fees. Completely unjust, but the courts do not give a shit in a no fault state.

And, ALWAYS keep in mind that her having an affair has/had NOTHING to do with YOU or YOUR MARRIAGE.

Infidelity is a not a marital problem - it is a PERSONAL problem.


I Divorced Her.

Posts: 362 | Registered: May 2012
Tren0R201
Member
Member # 39633
Default  Posted: 11:01 AM, June 22nd (Saturday)

Hi Joe. So your wife says you're done, the minute you say you'll contact the attorneys she changes her tune.
Also all of a sudden she wasn't feeling sex was all that hot, now suddenly want to jump your bones.
Also strange that the minute there seemed to be any normality in the dynamics of the relationship i.e you agreeing to dinner, she decides to go out and drink then lie about it.

Not really getting true remorse here are you? The reality of divorce, going to work and earning a living is now dawning on her. The problem is if you dont deal with the issues at hand, you'll never be in a position to know whether R is genuine or not.


Posts: 145 | Registered: Jun 2013
outtanowhere
Member
Member # 39001
Default  Posted: 11:38 AM, June 22nd (Saturday)

Just another thought here. Have you given any consideration to the possibility that while you are staying quiet wife & POS are probably setting the scene for when they are outted? She is so manipulative I would bet my last paycheck that POS has already set the stage for his BS to make you look like someone who might have an axe to grind so when you do, she will have doubts.

I don't know but, i had to realize that my H was actually so deceitful I would have never believe what he was capable of unless I had seen it with my own eyes! Proceed with extreme caution!!!!


BS - 57
SAWH - 60 multiple encounters with prostitutes and other sex workers
Married 37 years
Dday - 2/19/13 - found the emails
He promised me Heaven then put me thru hell

Posts: 724 | Registered: Apr 2013
bufffalo
Member
Member # 21854
Default  Posted: 12:59 PM, June 22nd (Saturday)

Joe...

Dude....is your wife still in any contact with her little BF??? Any at all??? Are you sure???

Your wife is NOT a good source of this information....cheaters lie!!!

Do you have access to her cell phone records???

Come on Bro...she may be "humping your leg".....

Hell...I understand "not wanting a divorce"....I truly do.....but I wanted to share my wife even less...BTDT!!!

My bullshit meter is really twitching.....be careful...

Keep us posted....

Bufffalo

[This message edited by bufffalo at 1:00 PM, June 22nd (Saturday)]


DDay 9/25/2008
R started 11/10/08
BH-me

Posts: 5822 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Texas
joeinfl
New Member
Member # 39583
Default  Posted: 10:39 AM, June 23rd (Sunday)

Our MC gave us the book not Just Friends, I read it cover to cover last week, and my WW finally started reading it this weekend. She admitted that she has done an awful job up to this point, and she downloaded me on the affair, new painful details and timeframe. This morning she has been cleaning the house like crazy, organizing our pantry, etc... Up to this point she has been actin like this is a little speed bump, but last night I told her that I thought it was over. She doesn't know I have already had two meetings with the attorney, but she can probably feel me pulling away. The thought of her performing sex acts on the OM is so revolting I highly doubt I will get over it. I have always been a pleaser in my life and hate seeing other people (strangely even my WW) go through this. I am strongly inclined to forgive, but it is the not forgetting part that will probably lead me to D.

Posts: 37 | Registered: Jun 2013
jtom
Member
Member # 35322
Default  Posted: 11:53 AM, June 23rd (Sunday)

Been away for awhile an was curious if you had gotten in touch with the OM betrayed wife. Well you haven't. Because your attorney told you not to thinking it may give you leverage if comes to an actual divorce, really Joe, really! You live in a no-fault state as I do an it doesn't matter if someone ha s an affair or not. If you were in a rowboat with an attorney an a woman was in the water floundering an your attorney told you not to throw her a life buoy, because of some perceived liability, would you? I wonder what the OM thinks about you since he knows you know an havenet told his wife yet. What does your wife think, since you you've elected not to tell the the mans wife? I'll tell you what they think, they think your afraid too. An wont. I know this has been a terrible time for you. The posters that have responded all pretty much have experienced this
mess an almost all have urged you to tell the OM wife. As others have said, another pair of eyes will be on those two cheaters. This will erase the little fantasy I bet your wife is still in especially when boyfriend tosses her under the bus. An another reason to tell the mans betrayed wife is this: What will she think about you when she does find out about the affair which she eventually will,an that you knew an didn t tell her. Take care.


ME(BH)HER(WW)LTA AT WORK.DISCOVERED AUGUST 2010. TWO SONS.DIVORCED HER. "THE BEST PREDICTER OF FUTURE BEHAVIOR IS PAST BEHAVIOR"

Posts: 89 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: somewhere in texas
nuance
Member
Member # 28793
Default  Posted: 8:30 PM, June 23rd (Sunday)

Because your attorney told you not to thinking it may give you leverage if comes to an actual divorce, really Joe, really! You live in a no-fault state as I do an it doesn't matter if someone ha s an affair or not.

I think he should tell her after the D or if they R. It doesn't matter if it is a no fault state. But Joe would be so upset if D doesn't go the way he wants that he might chat with OM's BW to clear up the air. Now, if he's not upset he doesn't need to talk to her :)


Dday May 2000. R'ed.
People suck.

Posts: 1205 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: California
joeinfl
New Member
Member # 39583
Default  Posted: 9:44 PM, June 23rd (Sunday)

I forgot to add that if I file, the attorney confirmed that we will depo the OM. Why in a no fault state? Because we can, and because it could impact custody. If she funneled money out of my account to him, or if she brought the kids over to the gym during one of their trysts (and she has brought the kids to the gym several times) it could impact things. Don't worry, she is going to find out. I just need to make sure if I tell her know it is for the right reasons and not out of vengeance.

My wife came up tonight to talk with me, and I still love her and feel BAS for her, but also can't trust her.


Posts: 37 | Registered: Jun 2013
sadallthetime
Member
Member # 26845
Default  Posted: 9:58 PM, June 23rd (Sunday)

Joe - I am tired of reading this BS. Be a man & tell the OM wife NOW!


Me-BW 60 now, FWH 64 now, 2 adult kids
DD#1 7-21-09 11 yr. affair w OW 30 yrs. younger who is an "escort". DD#2 7-23-09 Long Term EA with mutual friend DD#3 10-3-09 1 1/2 yr PA with escort #2 DD#4 10 yr. EA w/old GF

Posts: 104 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Florida
de.va.sta.ted
Member
Member # 22922
Default  Posted: 10:28 PM, June 23rd (Sunday)

Joe, do things on your own timeline.

Some of us may overidentify with the OM's betrayed spouse, but you should put your lawyer's advice before anyone else's, imo.


Me: BW mid 40's Him: WH mid 50's
D-Day: 2009
There is a crack in everything,
That's how the light gets in...

Posts: 850 | Registered: Feb 2009
bufffalo
Member
Member # 21854
Default  Posted: 10:31 PM, June 23rd (Sunday)

Joe....

Your wife does have a different trainer, doesn't she...and at a different gym?

Bufffalo


DDay 9/25/2008
R started 11/10/08
BH-me

Posts: 5822 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Texas
jtom
Member
Member # 35322
Default  Posted: 5:25 AM, June 24th (Monday)

Okay.But remember, this P.O.S other man has been burning your marriage down. You've been living a lie for some time now being exposed to God knows what in the way of S.T.Ds. etc. There nothing wrong with getting a little revenge out of vengeance. The quickest way to do that is to tell the mans wife, now. It will also get your wife out of the fog of the her fantasy affair an make reconciliation if that is your goal a little easier.


ME(BH)HER(WW)LTA AT WORK.DISCOVERED AUGUST 2010. TWO SONS.DIVORCED HER. "THE BEST PREDICTER OF FUTURE BEHAVIOR IS PAST BEHAVIOR"

Posts: 89 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: somewhere in texas
2yrs+recovering
Member
Member # 31582
Default  Posted: 9:15 AM, June 24th (Monday)

I think all of us here have been in some way where you are now.

And most of us wish we had done some things differently. If I had another spouse to tell it would have put and end to the A much quicker as confronting the SOW just made them more of a team and take it underground.

In the end, when I had proof the bubble did burst.

What we are all trying to say is take your time for your decision, but, telling the other spouse may help you make your decision. Most likely until this is done the A will be underground and the other spouse will be in the dark. Not fair to her.


BS (me)59 FWH 71
Married 35 years
4 children and 3 grandchildren
5 yrs into R.
Now that he has changed and become the man he should have been all along, why should I start over?

Posts: 560 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: New Jersey
dontstop
New Member
Member # 39395
Default  Posted: 9:30 AM, June 24th (Monday)

joeinfl,

I'm sorry that she doesn't get it yet. She had someone who placed true value in marriage, a loyal man who loved her. There is no timeline. I'm still new to all of this too. But all of this is on her. It's a choice to deal with the ups and downs that naturally come in a marriage and she chose another path. She is obviously not showing you that what she did was unacceptable. I agree with the others who have posted here about the "fog" and resources you can look at. Unfortunately, she seems selfish and she will regret this. Since the OM is also married, they have shown their true character. Who is to say that the OM won't cheat on her? Karma may come knocking. Anyone can play that game with morals as low as theirs.


Posts: 25 | Registered: May 2013
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 9:56 AM, June 24th (Monday)

Joe, I just read through your thread, and have just a few thoughts ideas to offer.

It sounds like you are leaning toward a D, and hey that's fine. In many situations when D is filed the WS suddenly defogs, and decides what they want. Unfortunately I see your WS being manipulative to keep her high standard of living. She has a maid, a nanny, a trainer, and doesn't work. I would bend over backwards to make sure I kept that too. If you do D, she will loose these things, and probably have to joing the real world of adults and get a JOB.

She is showing that she is sorry she has been caught, not that she is remorseful for what she has done, or is doing. I am willing to bet my lunch that she is still carrying on with this joker, and it may be in your best intrest to do some snooping and find out. If she is feeding you the I love you, I want to make this work line, and then still involved with him it may make your decsion a bit eariser.

We held off on the the OM for a while in R, d/t the legal clout the OW had, and fear of her ruining my H's reputation. We did eventually tell him, as my H was number 3 in line of MOM that she had bedded.
So I get needing to do that in your own time, but I can say that you need to know what she is up to NOW. Look for a secret cell phone, put a VAR in her Car. Keylogger on her computer and tablets. When she says she is trying then you can call her on it, along with handing her the papers for D.

Keep posting, keep asking questions, and know that we all come from a place of attempting to prevent you from having the pain we did, and making the same mistakes we did.

((((and strength))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8433 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 10:51 AM, June 24th (Monday)

Hey brother, sorry you had to join the best club no one ever wants to be a part of. Glad you found us in a time of need.

I'm going to preface this with a quick reminder to take what you need and leave the rest. Having said that, here goes.

If you are truly headed for D with no hope of R, DON'T tell the OBS. I know that goes against the advice of most, but in this case, it might be your best option. Your lawyer is right. I went through a very adversarial D with a custody battle. I was asking the court for custody of my son in spite of the fact that he had a half sibling living with his mother. In effect splitting the kids.

I had confronted XWW about her affair(ongoing) several times and got nothing but denials. I went to my atty and was advised to "go dark". Quit bringing it up, don't confront, let it continue. I got a PI and had her followed, thus giving me/us proof of the affair and what she was doing with the kids during her soiree's.

I too live in a no fault state. The proof was not to 'prove' the affair, but to get her to commit perjury on the stand, thereby invalidating all of her testimony. It worked. She lied like a rug. Pissed the judge off massively.

I won. The judgment stood. She couldn't believe it. Took the case all the way to the state supreme court, but her perjury was the determining factor.

Good luck and strength to endure the trials you are facing.


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2800 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
kiki1
Member
Member # 37184
Default  Posted: 11:18 AM, June 24th (Monday)

please tell the OM's wife Joe. She has a right to know what is going on behind her back, just as the rest of us did. Many people, besides myself, knew my Wh was having an affair. I hate they all kept it from me. People i have known for 25 years. I feel such a fool. Please tell her ASAP

Posts: 568 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: new york
HeavyE
Member
Member # 19333
Default  Posted: 9:18 PM, June 24th (Monday)

Joe:

You have been given wonderful advice by so many people that have walked in your shoes. We get it. We know how it feels.

I have read each of your posts and don't want to seem out of line here but for what it's worth:

- Do not be intimate with her. It can be seen as condoning her infidelity. I realize your are in a no fault state but this could affect your ability to bring up her infidelity thereby losing your leverage you currently have. Ask your attorney about this and see what their input is.

- She is still lying to you. Everyday. Does not matter what it is about (going to the bar the other night for example). You have no basis for any trust, so don't.

- Do what your attorney advises you to do regarding the OM's wife. I am a strong believer in exposure. I am even stronger in doing what my attorney advises.

- Advise "princess" time to get a job. Her days of being pampered are over. You can still keep the nanny and maid because now she will be working so it will be a necessity.

- Pride comes before a fall. A person who is extremely proud as she, tends to be overconfident and to make errors of judgment. From the little I know about your wife (albeit from your point of view) she comes across as very shallow and narcisstic. Her image is more important to her than anything else.

Hang in there brother. None of this is easy. In the end you are only accountable to yourself and your children. You do what you have to.


You can't change the wind, but you can adjust your sails.

Me Tarzan
Her Jane

Reconciled
D-Day 4/14/08


Posts: 9561 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: Birthplace of America's Music
Thadiun
New Member
Member # 39653
Default  Posted: 10:08 AM, June 25th (Tuesday)

I' ve read a lot of posts on this site and a lot of what people are saying I can very much relate. My issue ATM is my D day was 2 weeks ago. Once I found out the truth I went back to my home state to visit family and friends. I stayed for a week and decided to come back to see if I could salvage our marriage or at least go to counseling since my wife texted me everyday saying how sorry she was and wants another chance to pro e her love. So once I returned I still noticed her being distant e me when I saw her and on e I hugged and broke down in tears her reaction was like consoling a child with no tears or showing any type of emotion. So only 2 days since I been back she said she tired of being coped up in the house and wanted to go to her friends house. Well alarm bells was going off and to make a long story short she went back to him. On further discovery when she was texting me while I was with my family she actually took out money to pay for her lovers apartment. On the 3rd since i returned when I decided to show my cards of what I knew she was doing, she finally cried and tried to stop me from leaving the house. I went to motel room and decided before I talked to legal to have a meeting with her counselor. I still plan on going to legal but counselor still wants the two of us to come in to see her. My ultimate question for this group of people that is going thru the same thing I'm in, would u still try and work with this type of individual who constantly lies and leaves guilt riden texts about ignoring our son and not calling to talk things out worth going thru this type of hell? Or does a person deserve a 3rd chance? I'm totally confused and lost on what exactly my wife true intentions are. She says one thing but here actions say something else. Thanks ahead of time to anyone who might have some suggestions.


H- BS. 39
WW - 47
D-day. 6/10/13
6 month old son after trying for 10yrs
Married 5/1/99

Posts: 20 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: VA
wonderingbull
Member
Member # 14833
Default  Posted: 11:45 AM, June 25th (Tuesday)

Thaduim...

If you'll start your own thread you'll get the help you're searching for...

WB


The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time...

James Taylor


Posts: 5976 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: A better place
2yrs+recovering
Member
Member # 31582
Default  Posted: 1:27 PM, June 25th (Tuesday)

I am a strong believer in exposure. I am even stronger in doing what my attorney advises.

again, what is wrong with making the adulterous spouse (your wife Joe) contact the other spouse and inform them. This should be done as an apology. It would have been a condition of R for me if there was another spouse to consider. Then you would surely know if she was remorseful and accountable for her actions.


BS (me)59 FWH 71
Married 35 years
4 children and 3 grandchildren
5 yrs into R.
Now that he has changed and become the man he should have been all along, why should I start over?

Posts: 560 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: New Jersey
meplusfour
Member
Member # 38958
Default  Posted: 3:32 PM, June 25th (Tuesday)

As a BS, I would not want an AP to be the person who tells me about the A. Why? Because despite the remorse the AP may feel, the fact remains that the AP is one of the people who has wronged me and it would be rubbing salt in the wound. While it may help Joeinfl's WW realize the pain she has caused and the damages she was wrought, the OBS should not be used as part of the coming out of the fog process. To hear about the A and have the actual OW standing in front of a BS, telling the BS about her WH would be incredibly and unnecessarily painful. OM's BW should be told as gently and kindly as possible and perhaps at a later date, if all parties agree that it can be a condition of healing, Joe's WW offer her apology.

Joe, please think carefully about how the OM's wife should be told. I do agree that OM's WW should be told, but it would be best from your, another BS.


BW (me)42
WH 44
3 daughters, 1 son
Married 10 years, together 13
DDay 3/14/2013, four year PA
In R
"Sometimes you have to accept the fact that certain things will never go back to the way they used to be."

Posts: 361 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Canada
joeinfl
New Member
Member # 39583
Default  Posted: 10:23 PM, June 25th (Tuesday)

I think some of the initial shock is wearing off. I am realizing that my wife screwed her personal trainer, how cliche is that? We have had trouble for years. About 3 years ago we had talked about divorce, and She threatened to move out. Why? Because I did not give her enough attention! I am no angel, and given the state of affairs of our relationship if I had a hot female personal trainer that wanted to hook up with me, I probably would have done it. I don't judge her for what she did, I could have done the same thing given the choice, we have been in a bad place for awhile. But even though I understand how it happened, the thought of her having sex with another dude just won't go away.

Posts: 37 | Registered: Jun 2013
joeinfl
New Member
Member # 39583
Default  Posted: 7:55 AM, June 26th (Wednesday)

I told my WW she could go to her friends birthday party dinner last night at a local restaurant/bar. She could tell I was not happy about it. She said to me, "don't you ever want me to go out? Am I supposed to stay in this prison?" Huh? She can't seem to comprehend that I would be sensative about her going after she is just it me with the revelation of her another man. I did tell her she could go, I just wish she would be able to come to the conclusion on her own that she needs to lay low for awhile. I guess I could just lay down the law and tell her not to go out until 1:00am on a Tuesday night. That sounds ridiculous even saying it.

Posts: 37 | Registered: Jun 2013
toomanyregrets
Member
Member # 37740
Default  Posted: 8:02 AM, June 26th (Wednesday)

It's not ridiculous!
She's already proven that she can't be trusted.
What you need to do is set some bounderies. Since she has none, it's up to you.
No problem with going out, but not 'til 1:00 AM. She doesn't need to close the bar.

[This message edited by toomanyregrets at 8:47 AM, June 26th (Wednesday)]


BH - 64
fWW - 60

"Affairs are not mistakes, they are a series of deliberate choices." - CrappyLife


Posts: 466 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Upstate NY
bufffalo
Member
Member # 21854
Default  Posted: 8:41 AM, June 26th (Wednesday)

I guess I could just lay down the law and tell her not to go out until 1:00am on a Tuesday night.

Yes....

Time for you to draw a line in the dirt...like Travis at the Alamo...let her know what behaviors are tolerable to you and your marriage...that those that are not...given that she just got busted banging her trainer - she's really on a slippery slope here, Bro....Theres a catch - are you willing to back it up??? You cant give her an ultimatum unless you willing to do that....

JMO - if shes gonna hang out in a beauty salon - sooner or later shes gonna get her hair done....

A good mans gotta know his limitations - Dirty Harry (aka Clint Eastwood).

Is she in any contact with the trainer BF?

Keep us posted....

Bufffalo


DDay 9/25/2008
R started 11/10/08
BH-me

Posts: 5822 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Texas
outtanowhere
Member
Member # 39001
Default  Posted: 9:40 AM, June 26th (Wednesday)

Am I supposed to stay in this prison?"

Did you read that closely joe? That screams to me that she is not still there willingly. Remorse? Not even close! I hate it for you but, until you can show some really tough love she is going to continue to serve up shit sandwiches & then have a temper tantrum if you don't eat every bite! You are being too nice for your own good!

You have said twice now that it could have been you that stepped outside of the marriage. I have one very important observation to make. You obviously do very well financially. What I do know about this situation is that there are ALWAYS women who are attracted to a financially successful man. I might be wrong but, I think it's a safe bet to say you have had opportunities. If I understand this, you haven't cheated. So why not? Because you CHOSE not to! Key word: CHOICE!

I don't know how you will be able to deal with the fact that your wife had sex with another man. My H has had sex with 6 different women so obviously I have my own issues to deal with. The difference here is that my H's behavior is matching his words of regret & repentance & is doing some really hard soul searching to ensure it doesn't happen again whether we stay together or not.

Your wife just isn't getting it & what's worse...she doesn't care IMHO.


BS - 57
SAWH - 60 multiple encounters with prostitutes and other sex workers
Married 37 years
Dday - 2/19/13 - found the emails
He promised me Heaven then put me thru hell

Posts: 724 | Registered: Apr 2013
joeinfl
New Member
Member # 39583
Default  Posted: 10:55 AM, June 26th (Wednesday)

That is a great observation, she made the choice. I haven't opportunities to cheat for years because I don't find myself in a position where that could happen. Three years ago we were fighting a lot and she threatened divorce and was looking at town houses to move into, and I starting spending time with a girl that I had known only as a friend. After awhile, I began to notice she was attracted to me, and I had to end that before something crazy happened. I didn't tell my wife about, and I recognized that I needed to not place myself in those situations. As sad as it sounds, I don't think you can have an opposite sex friendship with two people that could be attracted to each other. I did believe you could, but after living through this I realize you can't. Since then, I have focused only on the marriage, work, and the kids. I thought things were getting better when this happened. She said she was doing this because she ha convinced herself that I was wrong by not paying her enough attention, and that she did not feel bad about it while it was happening. She also admitted that she was pursuing more of a relationship with him than he was. I believe that if he was up for it, she would have left me for him.

Posts: 37 | Registered: Jun 2013
toomanyregrets
Member
Member # 37740
Default  Posted: 11:30 AM, June 26th (Wednesday)

Joe,
You had the oppertunity but made the choice NOT to travel that road.
Good !
Your WW probably would have left you, but when the "honeymoon" with the OM ended, she'd have been begging you to come back.

Time to man up and let her know where you stand.

I saw this from another member of SI, "I have no problem with you dating other men, but not while your married to me".


BH - 64
fWW - 60

"Affairs are not mistakes, they are a series of deliberate choices." - CrappyLife


Posts: 466 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Upstate NY
outtanowhere
Member
Member # 39001
Default  Posted: 11:31 AM, June 26th (Wednesday)

So see, you did make a conscious choice to honor your committment to your marriage by not allowing yourself to be in a compromising position. That's why it's hard to understand how this person you married gave herself permission to cross that line. Did she even consider that there would be any negative consequences if the A was exposed? I would bet not.

She sounds like a user who is completely confident that you will do whatever it takes to hold on to her. You are doing all the work here & unless you are ok with being in a relationship where you are just considered an asset you need to demand some respect for who you are & quit making this easy for her!

No excuses, no free ride & no promises for the future. Let her know you are ready & willing to walk then be prepared to do it & take your kids with you!


BS - 57
SAWH - 60 multiple encounters with prostitutes and other sex workers
Married 37 years
Dday - 2/19/13 - found the emails
He promised me Heaven then put me thru hell

Posts: 724 | Registered: Apr 2013
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 11:35 AM, June 26th (Wednesday)

Joe sorry friend, but she just doesn't get it. My H gave me the Prison line early on too. You know why? Because I didn't want him going back to the town where the A was for a concert....He got 7 kinds of mean and ugly, so I waivered, he went, guess who he went with, not the people from work, but the AP and her friends.

Trust and all the stuff that goes with it has to be earned back, and if she isn't willing to do the work, then R'ing isn't going to happen. It's just an ugly truth.

Why does she want to stay? Has she been able to give a good answer to that question? Why do you want her to stay? What amount of BS are you willing to tolerate ??? What do you need from her to consider R'ing??? These are all things to consider. Please go see a lawyer as well. Find out what your rights are, because from what you have shared she is as remorseful as a wet rock. Time for you to get some knowledge and strength.

((((and strength))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8433 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 5:05 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)

My older son had problems with the thought of making definitive career decisions...He thought that once made, his decisions were irreversible..I have been trying to teach him that nothing is guaranteed in life and that he can change many of his decisions if they aren't working for him..
I feel something similar in your hesitance in making your WW leave/get her own job/be accountable for her actions going forward..IMHO she needs to experience this whether or not you guys R....


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1179 | Registered: Nov 2011
2yrs+recovering
Member
Member # 31582
Default  Posted: 7:00 AM, June 29th (Saturday)

Hi Joe,

Are you alright?

Just concerned.


BS (me)59 FWH 71
Married 35 years
4 children and 3 grandchildren
5 yrs into R.
Now that he has changed and become the man he should have been all along, why should I start over?

Posts: 560 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: New Jersey
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 8:29 AM, June 29th (Saturday)

I'm concerned too.....


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1179 | Registered: Nov 2011
joeinfl
New Member
Member # 39583
Default  Posted: 6:06 PM, June 29th (Saturday)

It has been a rough few days. Had a MC session a few days ago, counselor blew up my WW for being late to the session, plus the lies referenced in previous posts. WW has been trying to show remorse, but gets frustrated when I don't respond to her efforts. In fairness, I have been angrier over the past few days. It has already been 10 days since I found out that it was a physical affair, but I have not been easy to be around. Not yelling or screaming, but giving her little jabs about the affair. She then gets mad and says to stop rubbing her nose in it. Her conduct during the first week has made me put one foot out the door, and I am just not into R right now.

Posts: 37 | Registered: Jun 2013
outtanowhere
Member
Member # 39001
Default  Posted: 7:13 PM, June 29th (Saturday)

She's not owning her actions. I hate it but, I don't think she's even going to come close to getting it until you start the D process rolling. It takes two to R & IMO she is just doing damage control.

Sorry joe. Just stay strong. She just isn't giving you the respect you deserve!


BS - 57
SAWH - 60 multiple encounters with prostitutes and other sex workers
Married 37 years
Dday - 2/19/13 - found the emails
He promised me Heaven then put me thru hell

Posts: 724 | Registered: Apr 2013
1Faith
Member
Member # 38975
What?  Posted: 8:59 AM, June 30th (Sunday)

Hi Joe

It's still new and you are going to go back and forth for awhile. Keep focused on you.

Curious did you ever tell the OP wife?

Stay strong. You will make it.


"I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it." - Maya Angelou

Posts: 1137 | Registered: Apr 2013
Ashland13
Member
Member # 38378
Default  Posted: 12:18 PM, June 30th (Sunday)

Yes, I, too, have been hit on over the years and always, always said no in honor of my marriage and allegiance to Happy pants.

Happy Pants did not return the favor the one time he was ever hit on and in fact cheated with gusto, seeking others when that failed with Fatty B he went online...all the while keeping myself and his daughter at home.

Much happened after that, and when he pretended to reconcile I got pregnant and off he ran again, where? To her.

I'm sorry for everyone's pain and wish everyone well. It seems we have all been sent on this journey through hell and we don't know what's on the other side.

I just know that it's time for some respect...for all of us!



Ashland 13

A person is a person, no matter how small. -Dr. Suess

Perserverance and spirit have done wonders in all ages.

-George Washington


Posts: 2229 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: New England
joeinfl
New Member
Member # 39583
Default  Posted: 1:01 PM, June 30th (Sunday)

She said she finally got some sleep last night and it has become clear to her how unhappy she has been over the past few years. She mentioned that she feels trapped, we don't do anything as a family, I am self absorbed, etc... The sad thing is she has me believing it now, and I feel like a failure. Maybe I should have planned some more family trips to the beach, paid more attention to her, etc... I think some of that is valid. She told me the affair was just a matter of time and if it wasn't the personal trainer it would have been with someone else. You would think I was the worst person ever the way she describes me, not exactly helping my flatlined self esteem!

Posts: 37 | Registered: Jun 2013
mike7
Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 1:18 PM, June 30th (Sunday)

ok, so your marriage wasn't great.

Why did she cheat and hide? Why didn't she come to you and say she wasn't happy so that the BOTH of you could decide the best course? And what about your kids? Does she have the right to decide to cheat and ruin their family as well?

See? two different issues.

She can't blame the marriage for her cheating and hiding. She is just using that as an excuse so she doesn't have to feel bad about her actions. She may actually believe her thoughts, because it's easier to say, "i must have cheated because I was unhappy" than to look for deeper reasons. Like, "I'm immature and need affirmation to feel good about myself."

You aren't the bad guy here. You aren't the only one responsible for a happy marriage. You aren't responsible for MAKING her happy.


The question is, now that you know what kind of person she is, what do you want to do?


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 542 | Registered: Mar 2013
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 1:18 PM, June 30th (Sunday)

Please try not to believe that anything you did or didn't do caused her to cheat..For every issue in which she claims that you didn't meet her needs, you can counter argue that she didn't meet all of your needs..
I'm sure she wasn't a saint in the marriage, because after all, she chose to cheat...

This mess does blow our self esteem to
smithereens..

My infidelity diet has caused me to gain about 30 pounds in the last 2 years...Double whammy on the self esteem...

I am working to find a comfortable niche in which to exist once again...When my new life begins, I hope I will be able to fit into all of my old pretty clothes, lol

P.S. I just finished reading the post above mine..My suggestion is for your W to read my byline on the bottom..The one about the kite ......

[This message edited by doggiediva at 1:22 PM, June 30th (Sunday)]


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1179 | Registered: Nov 2011
toomanyregrets
Member
Member # 37740
Default  Posted: 6:47 PM, June 30th (Sunday)

Ah yes,
The A was all your fault !
You made her cheat on you.
Talk about blame shifting.


BH - 64
fWW - 60

"Affairs are not mistakes, they are a series of deliberate choices." - CrappyLife


Posts: 466 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Upstate NY
Kajem
Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 2:58 AM, July 1st (Monday)

Joe,

If you don't want to out OM to his wife, Then out him to his employer, (if he has one). They need to know the type of employee they have on staff. If he is lying to his wife, what makes him such an honest employee?

My XH told me he wasn't happy in our marriage because I didn't keep the house as clean as he wanted, I was late, I wouldn't let him go out with the boys. I wouldn't let him watch football on TV. None of it true (BTW). I had a friend going thru the same thing as I at the same time, her H told her she didn't love him because she served him bagged salad. That was his reason for having an affair... BAGGED SALAD!!!

No matter what the reason she comes up with...it isn't a reason to cheat. Everything I wrote above was FIXABLE. If he had come to me and told me about them. They are not divorce worthy reasons to end a marriage. Or even reasons to choose to toss your integrity and have an affair.

Until she acts 100% full of remorseful and starts acting on putting YOUR needs before her own.. it is status quo.

You'll know when to change the status quo... trust your gut on that.

Hugs,

K

[This message edited by Kajem at 3:01 AM, July 1st (Monday)]


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 5062 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 8:10 AM, July 1st (Monday)

Joe - Ok so you weren't in the best marriage ever. BIG DEAL. It's up to both of you to work on that. HOWEVER.......Her choosing to have an A. That is all on her.
Many of us have experienced the blame game. IT sucks. This is part of the reason why you need to share whats going on with a few people that love you. They help to keep all that crazy, self doubt building BS at minimum.

When my H was in the heart of his A. I couldn't do anything right. I mean anything. The house was never cleaned up enough, the kids didn't behave the way they needed to, the dogs shed in the house, the food I cooked wasn't healthy enough, it went on and on and on. IT was all BS. He was transferring, and blameshifting, trying to find a way to justify his actions in his own messed up brain.

Don't allow her to beat you down. This is not on you. You feel free to take responsibility of the M not being great, but the A is on all her.

What are you doing to help yourself through this?

(((and strength))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8433 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
joeinfl
New Member
Member # 39583
Default  Posted: 8:40 AM, July 3rd (Wednesday)

I have come to the conclusion that the only way this even has a chance to work is to start over with her. Everything that we had has burned to the ground, and I have to determine if I can fall in love, and trust my WW again. We fight the way bad roomates argue about things, sometimes just a look I give her or she gives me can start a tirade. I had thought that me catching her in an A would make her more remorsful and willing to back down, but it has been downright miserable around the house. The interesting thing is that I believe she has maintained NC with the OM, and she seems to be very disapointed with herself and surprised that she could be with this OM who is not better looking (or in better shape even though he is a trainer) than me, makes a fraction of what I make, etc... He was smart, took his time, and pounced when the opportunity presented itself. But she jumped in with both feet and encouraged the A. Plus, the sexual texts that I found between them will never, ever get out of my head. If it wasn't for the kids, I would be long gone.

So here is my very long winded question (for anyone that has made it this far): If I would divorce her immediately without kids, and the kids are are very young, does it make sense to even try to stay married because we have kids? I love our kids more than I imagined possible, and their welfare is my #1 priority.


Posts: 37 | Registered: Jun 2013
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 9:01 AM, July 3rd (Wednesday)

G'morning Joe,

The things you post your WW saying are very similar to the things my FWW said. She always had one foot out the door, my having to forgive her for the A made it easier for her to forgive me for being a crappy H, everything was always my way and what I wanted, I was broken...

The thing is it wasn't me, it was her. Once she owned her crap and started to work on her issues (+2 years in IC) it became clear to her and to me that I was not the problem. It was her perceptions being filtered through her FOO and personality issues.

I have come to the conclusion that the only way this even has a chance to work is to start over with her.

First, she has to start over with her. She has to own and work through her issues.

She told me the affair was just a matter of time and if it wasn't the personal trainer it would have been with someone else.

This would be a good place for her to start. Why was an A inevitable with her? Many (many, many) of us had bad M. By definition as a BS our spouses were cheating on us, yet few of us had As. It is not that we do not have opportunities, but we have boundaries. We self-sooth rather than relying on external validation. we do not have attachment disorders, we do not have personality disorders, whatever.

A good place for your WW and you to start may be to read and discuss Not Just Friends by Glass, and Sexual Detours by Hines. IC for her to figure out why an A was inevitable for her.

MC can wait. While she is working through figuring out, owning, and fixing her issues, you can work on you.

...my flatlined self esteem

Here is a place for you to start. Her A was not about you. That was the most valuable thing our MC said to me, and you hear it often on SI because it is true. What the OM was does not matter. Richer, poorer, older, younger, ugly, handsome, kind, an ass. None of it matters. All that mattered was what your WW projected on to him. It was all about her and her trying to meet some need in the absolutely worst way possible. There is no reason for your self esteem to suffer.

What can you focus on to work on your healing? Establish boundaries for your WW so you feel safe while she is working on her crap and you on yours. Can you expand your social network, hobbies, and activities? Take the focus of your life off of your M and WW, and put it back onto you and your activities.

...it make sense to even try to stay married because we have kids?

I say no. If your WW cannot begin to work at turning herself around and getting to where she is able to be a fully participating M partner, then I believe that it is better that you do not demonstrate a dysfunctional M to your kids. There need be no rush to leave. If your WW is staying NC, willing to work on her issues and meet your boundary requirements to feel safe, then you can give her 6 months or so to work on her while you work on healing yourself. During this time you can also work on getting finances into better order as well as your own life, so if the time comes to D you are as prepared as possible.


FBS 54
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4128 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 9:08 AM, July 3rd (Wednesday)

Ask yourself, "Is it better for my children to be from a broken home, or live in one?".

I don't know how it would work in your neck of the woods, but I went for and got primary custody of my son. He was 3. I had to drastically alter my lifestyle(read 50% paycut, but 50% cut in hours) but to me, my son was worth every penny.

Is she worth it? Sounds like she's not willing to make any change of significance and just wants to rugsweep the entire thing. Things will come around again without her acknowledging her own issues.

Good luck

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2800 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
k8la
Member
Member # 38408
Default  Posted: 9:09 AM, July 3rd (Wednesday)

Here's the reality you've summarized:
1. She has not invested in the marriage. This is the biggest issue causing her dissatisfaction, rather than anything you've done or not done. And if this doesn't change, she's just another opportunity away from cheating again and again and again.
2. She has everything taken care of for her - the children have a nanny, she has too much time on her hands, and she has a cushy lifestyle in which she has chosen to be dishonest and selfish.
3. She has no remorse for betraying YOU and her family, only remorse for herself. It seems that in her mind, she's the only one she violated.
4. She feels she's in a position to make demands of you, lacks empathy and in fact, is a miserable roommate.

Since these four points exist, regardless of the young age of your children, you have little choice left between either complete self-sacrifice, or sever households from her.

She has had NO LOGICAL CONSEQUENCES for her betrayal of her family or you.

She still lives in her cushy lifestyle, and is just an opportunity away from cheating on you again.

Take away the cushy lifestyle is your number one requirement.

Walking down the path to divorce will give you several things:
1. Logical consequences - if this, then that are the best teachers you can give your children. If you're always there, softening or taking away the blow from her choices, it stands to reason your children will be raised to be dishonest cheaters too because if you'll protect your wayward wife from her own behavior, with this kind of soul-destroying behavior against you, it stands to reason you'll do anything to help your children avoid their consequences. She's spoiled!! Don't do it to them.
2. Leverage. You have the means to gain custody - you have the nanny already in place to take care of them. She can go live the life she wants. Or she can provide you with a plan to invest in the marriage and protect it. Without that investment from her, SHE.MUST.GO!!!
3. Post-nup. If she's willing to invest in the marriage, she must be willing to do it for the long stretch. Demonstrate that she will protect the marriage and intends to do that forever.

What is her plan to make this right with you? My guess is she's not offering anything. She's making demands, which means she has no intention of doing anything but being a spoiled brat.

Is this who you want raising your children?

Talk with a lawyer and get the ball rolling. Let her know she has a limited amount of time to make the necessary changes. That you are willing to be there making changes right along with her so that it's a marriage, not a dictatorship that doesn't care if she's miserable.

But right now, she's just a spoiled brat who had it too good for way too long.

Love is not a feeling. It's an action. It's a result of putting oneself into the relationship - it's an investment of all one is to the care and protection of another.

She doesn't know this. And if you don't recognize her withholding her investment in you and the family, you're asking for a lifetime of pain. Stop propping her up and aiding her in not investing.


Posts: 149 | Registered: Feb 2013
m334455
Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 9:10 AM, July 3rd (Wednesday)

She is a stay at home mom, we have a nanny, and stays in her room all day and won't come out.

Joe, your wife has no job. No income. No responsibilities. Take away all her credit cards, her nanny, her personal training money, I'm assuming you have cleaners as well ... and give her a reasonable amount of cash for spending but no more. She needs a dose of reality. If she's got a really nice car, sell it and get her something very normal like a 3 year old Honda minivan... etc.

She didn't have an affair because of all the stuff you've given her, but I can guarantee she thinks she's entitled to it.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 11:08 AM, July 3rd (Wednesday)

Joe,

Way back on page 3 of this thread I more or less posted what a lot of others were saying before and have been saying since. I’m not saying this to get some acknowledgement or anything like that; I freely admit that there is hardly an original thought or theory in my post. It’s simply an accumulation of experience and events I have seen over and over again here on SI. That is “knowledge” shared by many of us, some who have also posted here on your thread.

In a sense you aren’t much different from so many other posters here on SI. You post your story – we offer advice. Some of that advice sounds tough and you pick-and-choose from it. That’s OK – I even state in my first post that although action is predictable there is no way we can be 100% certain how things will develop. But I also tell you that without some of the actions your chances are minimal…

I strongly encourage you to go back to the beginning of this thread and to re-read all the advice offered. Really consider where you are, what advice you have followed, what you have ignored and THINK whether your situation might be … different…. (I won’t say better or worse) had you followed some of the suggestions.

Frankly – and I freely admit it’s easy to say this when not dealing with it myself – to me it sounds as if you are still floundering in the lake wondering if that miracle helicopter will ever arrive.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5546 | Registered: Sep 2005
jtom
Member
Member # 35322
Default  Posted: 8:41 PM, July 3rd (Wednesday)

Joe, I ll bet she is still seeing the POSOM.The way she is acting toward you almost screams it. My then wife was the same way, sitting on the fence blaming me for everything, UNTIL I TOLD THE OM WIFE AN WATCHED AS HE THRU MY THEN WIFE UNDER THE BUS.Her fantasy world then melted bigtime , plus she now had her boyfriends wife to deal with. Whole new ball game now. She was begging to come back after that,but I found out way too much an that was a deal breaker for me an I divorced her. That will be a personal decision on your part to reconcile or not.Knock her off the fence Joe, file for divorce( you don't have to go thru with it)an tell the POSOM wife. You might be surprised what happens, for the better.


ME(BH)HER(WW)LTA AT WORK.DISCOVERED AUGUST 2010. TWO SONS.DIVORCED HER. "THE BEST PREDICTER OF FUTURE BEHAVIOR IS PAST BEHAVIOR"

Posts: 89 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: somewhere in texas
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 2:49 AM, July 4th (Thursday)

I totally understand your hestitation or fear of saying or doing anything that you feel is irrevocable, until you have a clearer mind..
To use Bigger's analogy, do protect yourself with life preservers though, until you learn which available islands are available for you to swim to..
Don't let WW walk all over you in the interest of staying together for the kids.
I put up with my WH being a needy,whiny, lazy partner during our long marriage. I should have stood up for myself by demanding that we have more give and take or balance in our marriage.By the time I became aware of my WH's A, I had already lost a vast amount of respect for him.
The crappy self centered way in which WH handled the A aftermath caused me to lose my love for him as well.
I am going to have to find the strength,courage and resources to pull myself out of the rip tide or hole of quicksand that I am stuck in..I am not armed with these at the moment..

I can't hope that I will be lucky enough for a rescue helicopter to find me and take me away from this mess.

I feel like my strength will come when I find more IRL support(family,friends). At the present time I have little IRL support. My first step is to find people to do things with so that I have fun things to look forward to, which will make D a little less scary.

I have been a big hermit lately..I am grieving the loss of easy access to my sister who is my best friend. She and her husband recently moved 1000 miles away to follow his job.

What are your strengths? What do you still need to work on to protect yourself?

Please don't get to the point where you feel stuck like I do.

Wishing you strength to get to that peaceful place where you and your kids can thrive.

[This message edited by doggiediva at 3:23 AM, July 4th (Thursday)]


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1179 | Registered: Nov 2011
joeinfl
New Member
Member # 39583
Default  Posted: 11:23 AM, July 4th (Thursday)

Thank you so much for all of your advice so far. I have caught my wife in another lie, not a big lie but her not being honest with me over something I would not have gotten mad about if she just told me the truth. She is shredding and trace of trust and faith in her I have left. I am stressed to the max and probably wanted to take the path of least resistance, which was to gut it out until things for better, mainly for my kids but also because I try to avoid confrontation when possible. However, after this most recent event, I contacted the attorney and we are going to make preparations to file. I am sick over this decision and still can't believe I am here. I had a mini panic attack this morning over it. I am still waiting to wake up and have someone tell me everything is going to be OK.

Posts: 37 | Registered: Jun 2013
Gipper
Member
Member # 32232
Default  Posted: 12:02 PM, July 4th (Thursday)

You will be ok. You must believe that. At present, your choices are to move forward and take care of you or to remain in this toxic environment. The wife and marriage that you had is gone. You can't go back, staying like it is now will kill you, so forward is the only way to go. I know it seems terribly hard now, but in a few years it will be crystal clear to you.

Posts: 717 | Registered: May 2011
doesitgetbetter
Member
Member # 18429
Default  Posted: 12:20 PM, July 4th (Thursday)

I wonder, if there were issues about money and spending time together as a family, then why is there a nanny when the WW is a SAHM? She has all sorts of free time during the day to do whatever she wants thanks to the nanny (as evidenced by her late afternoon stop at the bar... really?).

She's not going to be able to afford a nanny when she lives alone, so it's time to pull the plug on the nanny and get WW set to deal with real life. If she wants family, she can start by being a mother to her children and being there for them all the time.


DDay - Dec '07
Me - BS
Him - FWS
Us - Committed
May 18, 2010 - I forgave him fully!
"Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction." Isaiah 48:10

Posts: 3859 | Registered: Feb 2008
joeinfl
New Member
Member # 39583
Default  Posted: 12:27 PM, July 4th (Thursday)

I totally agree, I told her last week her choices were either to go back to work or let the nanny go. At first she said she would go back to work. Now, she said she is nervous after being out of the workforce for almost five years, and would rather stay at home and give up the nanny. However, knowing I think she would have a tough time with that. Like everything else right now, it is hard to know exactly what is going through her mind.

Posts: 37 | Registered: Jun 2013
doesitgetbetter
Member
Member # 18429
Default  Posted: 2:13 PM, July 4th (Thursday)

Joe, I was a SAHM for a decade when DDay happened in my house (I'm the BS as well). I went back to work because I realized I needed to protect myself and not be stuck with H because of his income. I got the first job I applied for. We've moved a few times since DDay, and I've ALWAYS landed the first job that I was qualified for and applied for. I even got a job last week that I didn't think I'd get, and I start that one next week. So being scared, ya, I get it. But she has to change things because whether you two stay together or not she can't be staying at home and having a nanny so she can go whenever and wherever she feels like. Completely ridiculous.


DDay - Dec '07
Me - BS
Him - FWS
Us - Committed
May 18, 2010 - I forgave him fully!
"Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction." Isaiah 48:10

Posts: 3859 | Registered: Feb 2008
Jennifer99
Member
Member # 39551
Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, July 4th (Thursday)

Joe,

I'm the employed one in the family. WH doesn't have a nanny and housekeeper but my son is in school all day and in an after school program. He had the ENTIRE school year to try and get a job. He did not. He is not spending any time with our son now it is summer.

I kind of understand your hesitation in making decisions for yourself. I feel the same way. I kept feeling like if I could make some decisions for him that had some consequences he would "snap out of it".

Now I'm pretty sure nothing will do that so I am only worried about making decisions for me.

Have you looked at this from what you want?

What do you want?
Do you want to work all day, have your kids raised by someone else so you can fund your WW's relaxed and fun lifestyle? Do you want to wonder who else it will be? Do you want to spend how much more time "waiting to see" if she gets better?

I looked back at almost 20 years and thought 'well I can't throw that away in a day without trying'. I knocked myself out trying for a whole stupid year and nearly killed myself in the process. Now I am facing the health ramifications of sticking my head in the sand.

Since removing my head from my rearend I have stopped thinking like any of that.

Would my son be crushed if we split? yes. He was crushed when we moved an hour from his grandparents. Has it killed him? No. Has he learned to deal with it remarkably well? Yes. Do I have the resources to take care of him and be there for him and get him help if he needs it from somewhere other than me? Yes. Is living in a house with all tension and no love good for him? He'd probably argue its better than split parents but I have seen kids from split parents in happier single parent households do better than DS is now and he doesn't know the half of it. How much better of a mom would I be without dealing with WH's shit?

Now, besides my son -

How much better would I feel all by myself? Much. Can I ever fix WH? No. Can I fix me and my broken parts? yes.

This is how I am moving on.

I'm only sharing because I can see how you telling her what to do might make you feel better at the moment and I'm not saying she shouldn't get off her ass and take some responsibility for something...but that is only one small issue at the top of a whole bigger pile of issues right?


Posts: 556 | Registered: Jun 2013
Josephine01
Member
Member # 38511
Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, July 4th (Thursday)

There is one thing I would have done a long time ago if I had this all to do over. I would have asked my husband for a divorce when my youngest was young because we fought all the time and my kids, even though it was not always in front of them grew up in this type of situation.

Asking for a divorce would have either woken my husband up to the way he was treating me (no A that I know of then though) or B. my kids would be better adjusted now. I may still divorce and I think it would be harder for them now.

Two things I pretty much know to be true I wouldn't have been lonely all these years and I don't think I would be going through an affair right now.

I am sorry for your pain, maybe your wife will come out of this "fog" if she knows you mean business.


Me, 42 BS
H, 61 WH
2 boys 19 and 15 years old
Married 24 years

Posts: 314 | Registered: Feb 2013
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 3:15 PM, July 4th (Thursday)

Joe,
If you start divorce proceedings you can always withdraw the application if your narcissistic wife ever generates some genuine remorse.
Or you can go through with the divorce and continue to reside with your ex, at the same address, for the sake of the kids. Then she would need to find employment just to generate some income of her own. End of her cushy existence.

Either way, if you don't take stern action at this point this woman will cheat again. After all she believes that you 'asked for it' by your claimed neglect. Don't fall for that bulls**t; she needs a massive dose of reality and you have the means to deliver that.


Posts: 1704 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
outtanowhere
Member
Member # 39001
Default  Posted: 10:53 PM, July 4th (Thursday)

What bothers me the most about waywards is the disrespect they show us BS's with their selfish decision to have an A. Joe, your WW is continuing to disrespect you. She knows you don't like confrontation & IMOHO, is fully expecting you to put the brakes on any threats you may have made. In other words, she's calling your bluff. It's just like my H does. After a sufficient amount of silent treatment, it all goes under the rug & the next round begins! She thinks she has you figured out & I hope you shock the mess out of her!!!


BS - 57
SAWH - 60 multiple encounters with prostitutes and other sex workers
Married 37 years
Dday - 2/19/13 - found the emails
He promised me Heaven then put me thru hell

Posts: 724 | Registered: Apr 2013
HeavyE
Member
Member # 19333
Default  Posted: 12:20 AM, July 5th (Friday)

You and your children will be all right.

Heed the advice of your attorney. Ask him about financial separations and what can be done now. A common piece of advice is to take half of all funds and open up an account in your name only. Keep good records of the money and what it is used to pay for.

I would also suggest that you immediately remove her from any accounts that she is an authorized user on and to freeze any accounts from any additional purchases that you both may be on. If any joint accounts have a zero balance consider closing them.

Begin keeping a journal on her activities and what you are also doing in the way of keeping the house together.

Consider purchasing a voice activated recorder. It serves two purposes. The first is to keep you in check when ever you are discussing things with her (keep a calm head). The second is to provide security for you in the event she fabricates any false statements or accusations against you. You already know she is a liar and can't be trusted. May not be admissible in court to be used against her, but it might be able to prove your innocence in the event she falsely accuses you. It wouldn't be the first time it has been witnessed by our fellow SI'ers.

I would not be surprised that she has been seeking legal advice. Her refusal to not seek employment has probably been advised for custody, more child support and alimony.

As someone else has already stated filing is just the beginning. Wish for sunshine, prepare for rain.

It will seem things are getting worse before they get better. Hang in there.


You can't change the wind, but you can adjust your sails.

Me Tarzan
Her Jane

Reconciled
D-Day 4/14/08


Posts: 9561 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: Birthplace of America's Music
joeinfl
New Member
Member # 39583
Default  Posted: 10:10 AM, July 8th (Monday)

So it has been a little over a month since my DDay, and I can't imagine taking this journey without the people on this message board, thanks! I now understand what trickle truth is and other concepts that I previously was blissfully unaware of.

The long July 4th weekend gave me a chance to reflect. My WW has begun showing remorse, but also wants to engage in the issues (about me) that she feels led to a bad marriage. She fully accepts responsibility for the A and I believe has maintained NC with the AP (love these abbrieviations!) She says that the #1 problem with our marriage is that I tend to tune her out, which I am guilty of sometimes. I just feel that it is a little early I address these problems. I mean, I am 75% out the door at this point. The stupid blatant lies I have caught her in since DDay have rocked my confidence that I will recover.


Posts: 37 | Registered: Jun 2013
naivegirl
Member
Member # 14234
Default  Posted: 11:42 AM, July 8th (Monday)

She needs to focus on the damage she has done to your marriage. Think of it like this. If someone was shot in the chest the doctors would address that would first before looking at the guy's ingrown toenail. You need to work on healing from the fatal damage she has inflicted on you before you are ready to address any other issues. If she doesn't get this then I wouldn't reconcile.


Me BS 39
Him WH 38

D-day #1 Jan 31 2007
D-Day #2 March 25 2007
Roll on Roll on Roller Coaster
We're one day older and one step closer
Roll on there's mountains to climb
Roll on we're on borrowed time
-Kid Rock

Working on Re


Posts: 1740 | Registered: Apr 2007
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 4:28 PM, July 8th (Monday)

I totally agree with naive girl..
That is why doing MC is a little bit premature at this stage..

When WH and I went to counseling,MC, I was soooo hoping that the MC would call WH out on his A behavior and validate my feelings a bit more..As it turned out I left each counseling session feeling worse instead of better..I felt like I didn't have what it took to be a good marriage partner..

Between WH blaming me for his A behavior and MC saying that the state of the marriage caused the A , I felt like I was a naive frigid screwup of a person. Reading online infidelity forums saved my life...

[This message edited by doggiediva at 4:29 PM, July 8th (Monday)]


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1179 | Registered: Nov 2011
joeinfl
New Member
Member # 39583
Default  Posted: 10:32 PM, July 8th (Monday)

So I have not been very nice to my wife today, just don't feel like playing nice. She takes my negative energy about the relationship and calls herself a piñata because I give her small digs about what happened. Then she gets angry and complains about all of my shortcomings and essentially wants to blame for whatever happened in the A. I know how she works, in a few hours she will send me text message saying how much she is sorry for saying those things. Totally unpredictable, but not conduct I would suspect from a wife banging her trainer and then getting caught.

Posts: 37 | Registered: Jun 2013
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 11:21 PM, July 8th (Monday)

This is where the 180 will give you strength and perspective...If you are at a good distance from your WW for enough time, you may be able to visualize her for what she truly is...

[This message edited by doggiediva at 11:22 PM, July 8th (Monday)]


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1179 | Registered: Nov 2011
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 11:49 PM, July 8th (Monday)

Totally unpredictable, but not conduct I would suspect from a wife banging her trainer and then getting caught.

You're trying to attribute what we would consider *normal* behavior to someone who has demonstrated that she is not *normal*. Have you perused the NPD forum in the I Can Relate forum?

She seems to be exhibiting signs of narcissism by your descriptions of her behavior.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2800 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 7:48 AM, July 9th (Tuesday)

Joe - The only thing she is sorry for is getting caught. If you are having trouble deciding what to do, I would say you probably could go in stealth mode, and find out if she is still seeing the OM, or has a new OM. Her manipulations indicate to me that there is more going on, and if you find that out, it may make a decision easier.

Stay strong.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8433 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 8:25 AM, July 9th (Tuesday)

Protect your assets and finances so you have the luxury of time to be in stealth mode and see how this mess unfolds ..
Time=clarity, but the amount of time it takes is different for everybody :-/


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1179 | Registered: Nov 2011
joeinfl
New Member
Member # 39583
Default  Posted: 10:26 PM, July 11th (Thursday)

So it has been a little over a months since I uncovered the PA of my WS. Since that time, I believe her that she has not contacted the OM, and I have access to her phone, computer, etc.. I also think after I caught her in several lies after I discovered the PA using her phone and computer, she has finally tightened up her ability to scrub information off of her devices, so I guess i can't totally be sure. We have been going to MC, both got tested for STD's (luckily we are totally OK), and she has been showing some remorse. I am trying to figure out when you know if the WS is doing enough to warrant giving her another chance. There is no doubt in my mind that if there were no kids involved, I would have kicked her out the first night. Our kids are also so young that there is no way I could hang in there until they go to college unless things get a lot better. I keep waiting for a sign, something that tells me that this is going to be OK and worth fixing. She has been remorseful, but if I did this I would be groveling on my hands and knees looking for forgiveness. She has still not sought out IC even though I go to IC, and I am not sure she is doing anything proactively to address these problems. Sometimes I feel she is just running out the clock on my anger and despair waiting for me to get over it.

Posts: 37 | Registered: Jun 2013
LifeIsBroken
Member
Member # 27071
Default  Posted: 11:31 PM, July 11th (Thursday)

"She has still not sought out IC even though I go to IC, and I am not sure she is doing anything proactively to address these problems. Sometimes I feel she is just running out the clock on my anger and despair waiting for me to get over it."

So, she isn't doing IC. But you are. You're both going to MC (which is kind of senseless if she's not making an effort to figure out why she would do what she did, in my opinion). And you feel she's just waiting for you to 'get over it.' If you file for D, maybe then she will realize you aren't going to just get over it.... and maybe then she'll be willing to do the work to own her crap and determine what SHE can do to repair and contribute to the M. You're being way too nice, Joe. Stop being nice. Make it very apparent to her you are done fooling around. If she doesn't get serious about fixing her own problems after looking at D papers, then you're better off calling it quits because she'll never own her own crap for any of her choices. File for D, request full custody of your children, offer no alimony and see what happens. Either way, you will be ahead of the game. Sending hugs to you.


BW: 59
XH: 60
Married 34 yrs, LIBerated: 2/17/11
MOW: 50 (she said she wanted a sugar daddy; xh said, "I'M HIM!")
Actions ALWAYS have consequences. Too bad cheaters don't consider the consequences BEFORE they create so much damage.

Posts: 482 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Missouri & Massachusetts
m334455
Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 10:47 AM, July 12th (Friday)

But she has to change things because whether you two stay together or not she can't be staying at home and having a nanny so she can go whenever and wherever she feels like. Completely ridiculous.

Well, ridiculous now that we see what she chose to do with it. I'm all for a man pampering his woman if she's treating him right.

And now to add something to my random t/j:

Joe, she's waiting you out. Plain and simple. Waiting you out, trying every trick she can come up with to get this to blow over so she can go back to having the same sweet deal that was working so well for her.

She's probably also seeing an attorney to figure out a backup plan (if she's smart.) Because "personal trainer man" is not a backup plan from you. He's a screwed up hobby.

I probably sound really cold, but on some level it's all about the $. She wants to do what she wants and she wants as much $ as possible. Remorse isn't really in the equation here at all. Remorseful spouses don't scrub their phones. They wouldn't dream of it.

[This message edited by m334455 at 10:55 AM, July 12th (Friday)]


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 11:25 AM, July 12th (Friday)

Remorse eh? How is she showing you that? Giving you the bare minimum to think there's a chance at R? or is she truly open, and transparent, and sick over what she has done?

She hasn't gone to IC? Does she give a reason why she chose to have an A? if not, then she needs to go, and you my friend get to make the rules. Here are my requirements for even attempting an R.
A. B. C. D.
Lay them out, if she balks, argues, or pushes back, she doesn't get it, and you should proceed with your exit plan.
Nothing is has changed as the consequences of what she has done, have been minimal. Remember you aren't dealing with your sane wife, youre dealing with a stranger who took her place. It takes being tough to chisel the stranger away and getting the real person back.

(((and strength)))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8433 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
joeinfl
New Member
Member # 39583
Default  Posted: 12:21 AM, July 23rd (Tuesday)

I wanted to give everyone s brief update. What amazes me most about this forum is the complete predictability of how these events unfold and how the wise people on this forum can accurately advise what is coming next and how to handle it. So we are about 7 weeks from D-Day, and we are fighting more than ever. We still sleep in seperate rooms. We gave gone to 4 MC sessions. I have gone to two IC sessions. She refuses to go to IC because she doesn't feel she needs to. She says she knows the reason she cheated, she says she was a coward that felt trapped and should have either sought out MC sooner or asked for a divorce, and instead made a bad decision and cheated. She is human. She also said the problem is I am emotionally unattached and she still loves but is not in love. Ouch!

Posts: 37 | Registered: Jun 2013
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 9:01 AM, July 23rd (Tuesday)

(((joe)))
She is doing nothing to help you heal. If she were you wouldn't be fighting incessantly. She says she gets why she did it. What changes has she implemented to assure that she does not ever make those choices again?
I see that she is still blaming you. If you weren't so emotionally unattached then she wouldn't have made the choices she made. Do you see that?
Why are you allowing her to call the shots? If you feel that IC for her is essential to your healing and possible R why are you not demanding it?
You should be the one to call the shots at this point. When you try to talk to her about the A does she get angry, or try to switch things up and put the focus on your problems? If so this isn't remorse. This is sorry I got caught.
You don't have to make a decision today or tomorrow, or even next week. I would tell you to look at this whole situation as an outsider. Or if someone were doing what she is to one of your kids. How would you want them to handle it, how would you help them through it? This helped give me perspective, and was ultimatley the impetus I needed to draw my line in the sand, and stick to the consequences of those actions. Doing that finally cleared the fog for my H.

((((and strength))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8433 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
Dawn58
Member
Member # 37656
Default  Posted: 9:27 AM, July 23rd (Tuesday)

Hi Joeinfl,

So sorry that you need to be here. Sounds like you are on the roller coaster ride. My WS never showed any signs of remorse, tried to blame me for the affair, rewrote the marriage, rewrote me too for that matter!! So, I can not share any experience with R.

I hope you have talked to an attorney to find out your rights. I know you have small children - I was married before and stayed in that marriage in part, because of my son. I wanted him to have his father in his life. One of the things you might ask yourself, is what are you teaching your children about love, about marriage? Is this the example you want them to have? What they will know about a marriage, is what they see in their home. My intention is not to hit you with a 2 by 4, but just to give you a different perspective on things - a more long range view.

Take care of yourself, so glad that you are posting here and getting the support you need.

It will get better. I am almost 8 months out and while I still get hit with the pain and anger, I don't wake up thinking about him, or her, or the affair. I know I will never be the woman I was before and I have found a reserve of strength that I did not know that I had. You will find that strength as well.


I got into the marriage, because I loved him. I got out of the marriage, because I love me.

Posts: 468 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Southern California
kannan
Member
Member # 36057
Default  Posted: 9:55 AM, July 23rd (Tuesday)

No more Mr Nice guy is a good read for you.

You are rug sweeping and you are doing nothing to save or dissolve this marriage If you want to save your marriage put your foot down and be a real man who dont acept any BS from your wife.

Get the courage to tell her "Fuk Off" if needed.

Why you are not exposing OM to his wife? Did your wife showed you the NC letter she send? Do you have any idea what she send him? You are rugsweeping is only going to make things easy for her when OM shows again with a text or face to face.They are lying low or may be still in contact through some other way. ( pay phone).

File for D, if she is remorseful (now any way she is not remorseful, this is not a truly remorseful wife do when she saw her husband hurt and when she got the gift of a second chance) she will fight for you, not with words but with actions.

You got some good advice, people are telling this only keeping your good in their mind, may be because all of us had gone through this BS once.

[This message edited by kannan at 9:58 AM, July 23rd (Tuesday)]


Posts: 139 | Registered: Jul 2012
1Faith
Member
Member # 38975
Frustrated  Posted: 10:18 AM, July 23rd (Tuesday)

Oh Joe

She is rugsweeping and blameshifiting to a tee.

She does need IC because she needs to do a deep dive on what allowed her to cheat.

It wasn't your emotional detachment or tuning her out. She chose to seek affection outside her marriage. That is hers to own.

If she is not willing to do that and that is a condition for you to R, then you have your answer.

There is a big difference in being sorry you were caught to being remorseful that you broke your marriage vows.

She is still trying to justify her behavior and there is no justification. None.

The kids are a reason to try but not a reason to stay if she isn't doing her part.

Hang in there and know that we are all here.

(((hugs)))


"I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it." - Maya Angelou

Posts: 1137 | Registered: Apr 2013
jtom
Member
Member # 35322
Default  Posted: 9:01 PM, July 23rd (Tuesday)

Tell the OM's wife JOE. It will turn things around for you. Your attorney is just flat wrong on this.


ME(BH)HER(WW)LTA AT WORK.DISCOVERED AUGUST 2010. TWO SONS.DIVORCED HER. "THE BEST PREDICTER OF FUTURE BEHAVIOR IS PAST BEHAVIOR"

Posts: 89 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: somewhere in texas
Chloe1997
New Member
Member # 39840
Default  Posted: 9:22 PM, July 23rd (Tuesday)

I'm so sorry this is happening to you. Sometimes I feel like my WH is blame shifting and it used to make me so angry but after all of the words of wisdom from the forums I see him for who he is and I can only smile and walk away. I feel bad for people like my husband and your wife. They will regret losing people like us once they get out there and try dating. It's all fun and games when you are having an A but let her see what kind of dates she is going to get when she is a divorcee with 3 kids.


Me-34
WH- 35
Married 7 years (together 16 yrs)
DD- toddler
D-Day June 23, 2013

Posts: 16 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Nyc
Debaser
New Member
Member # 39997
Default  Posted: 4:07 PM, July 24th (Wednesday)

TELL OM's WIFE x200

Posts: 4 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Pennsylvania
2yrs+recovering
Member
Member # 31582
Default  Posted: 7:56 PM, July 27th (Saturday)


Tell the OM's wife JOE. It will turn things around for you. Your attorney is just flat wrong on this.

This is sooo true.


BS (me)59 FWH 71
Married 35 years
4 children and 3 grandchildren
5 yrs into R.
Now that he has changed and become the man he should have been all along, why should I start over?

Posts: 560 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: New Jersey
Topic Posts: 187