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User Topic: W wants to do the same to me as I did to her?? Advice?
determined2020
New Member
Member # 39578
Default  Posted: 2:11 PM, June 19th (Wednesday)

My W had voiced to me that she really wants to cheat on me like how I cheated her. She wants to have an A with someone just so I can feel the hurt she feels.

At this point I would be hurt but I don't think it would make her feel any better. I think she would feel worse actually. I feel it will just cause more confusion and hurt feelings.

I understand her point tho and where she is coming from...but what do I say to that? Do what you feel you have to do???

Can someone please shed some light on this and also point me in a direction of help so we can work through this pain and feelings.


Determined2020

Posts: 7 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: New York
daledge
Member
Member # 38886
Default  Posted: 2:20 PM, June 19th (Wednesday)

This is so simple. Yes, she wants to hurt you back. Why wouldn't she?

She loved you, trusted you, planned a life with you. And you did what?!

If she feels this way it is because you have not apologized enough. Held her enough. You have fallen short all the way around.

You have disappointed her in the most profound way you could. And now it is up to you to make it better.

So ask her. Ask her what she wants. If she says she doesn't know then kiss her, apologize to her one million, trillion, billion times a day from now until the end of time. She'll tell you if she wants you to stop.

Send her flowers, love messages, love texts.

And end your affair. Move if you have to. Crawl on your stomach, eat glass, and beg her forgiveness.

Let her know you made a BIG mistake. She means the world to you.

Get it?


Posts: 106 | Registered: Apr 2013
JanaGreen
Member
Member # 29341
Default  Posted: 2:34 PM, June 19th (Wednesday)

Is this something she said in anger, or something she sincerely says she wants to do?

I think almost all betrayed spouses SAY they want to cheat so their WS can feel the same pain. I also think that the majority of us don't mean it.

What we really want is empathy from our WS. And genuine remorse, and the desire to change.

I understand that you don't feel like you have the right to say no, but you are correct in that it will just cause more confusion. Like gas on a fire.

And please - don't crawl on your belly and eat glass. Debasing yourself doesn't help. Figuring out and fixing the issues that caused you to cheat - that does help.

Good luck.


We're both in our 30s. One awesome 4-year-old daughter.

Posts: 6520 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Somewhere in the South
determined2020
New Member
Member # 39578
Default  Posted: 2:34 PM, June 19th (Wednesday)

Yeah I understand. I will keep up with my apologizes and i love yous. We are still talking and battling this together. I know she is struggling and I don't want ot push R on her. I know she needs her time to feel and I will be here the whole time.

I'm actually planning something really nice for her as we speak.

Thank you for your advice.


Determined2020

Posts: 7 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: New York
UKgirl
Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 2:35 PM, June 19th (Wednesday)

I would point your BW to counselling. And to google ďrevenge affairsĒ. Not one site will tell her itís a good thing. Itís a bad thing on every level. And you will never know the same pain as she is feeling. Itís like she has been mown down by a Mack truck and then she deliberately steps out into the path of another truck to see if it hurts you at all. The pain you feel will be from watching her do this knowing you canít stop it happening while she will be more broken than ever.

Aubrie has pointed you in the right direction with the links. Read all you can. And get therapy. You need to show her you are NOT that same man anymore. Repeat, repeat, repeat. Give her all passwords, let her check on you whenever. She fears your behaviour is established and that is going to be very hard to change.

ETA - repeating myself!

[This message edited by UKgirl at 2:36 PM, June 19th (Wednesday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3440 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
SurprisinglyOkay
Member
Member # 36684
Default  Posted: 2:48 PM, June 19th (Wednesday)

My BS went through this.

He wanted a RA, or a threesome, he wanted me to feel his pain.

He didn't do it.

But I know he struggled with the thoughts.

There are some good books to read:

"How to help your spouse heal from your affair"

I'm currently reading "Not Just Friends"...Good stuff so far!

Hang in there, this shit is not easy!


FWS me 36 (recovering addict)
BS him 39 AFrayedKnot
Together 7 years
2 children


"Your secrets keep you sick"


Posts: 1130 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: 221B
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 2:54 PM, June 19th (Wednesday)

If she feels this way it is because you have not apologized enough. Held her enough. You have fallen short all the way around.
This may or may not be the case. And really, it's still no excuse for the BS to want an RA. I have seen WS on this site that have put a limbo contest to shame doing anything and everything in their power to help their BS but to no avail. I've seen WS put up with downright shameful and humiliating things from their BS because they were trying to "make it up" to the BS. And yet still, the BS decides to become a WS. Is it then still the WS fault for not apologizing enough?

Crawl on your stomach, eat glass, and beg her forgiveness.
A lot of us have done that our whole lives. It's part of the reason we're here. Debasing ourselves further and making ourselves less than human (as terrible as infidelity is. I'm not belittling by any means) is not the answer. If you go around telling your BS you're trash, you'll do "anything" and they should do "whatever" they want to heal? Recipe for disaster. Find out your whys. Fix your poor coping mechanisms. Find out what makes you tick and why you chose to cheat.

All you can do determined2020 is all you can do. Apologize, do the hard work, help her seek counseling, have her post here, ask her if you can help her in any way. Beyond that, it's still her choice to cheat. And yes, it's a choice. A result of her own poor coping mechanisms.

[This message edited by Aubrie84 at 2:55 PM, June 19th (Wednesday)]


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6045 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
Jrazz
Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 4:34 PM, June 19th (Wednesday)

I don't think that crawling on your stomach or eating glass is the solution here, either.

I had ALLL those thoughts/urges and then some immediately following DDay. I don't think that every single BS has this kneejerk, but I think that enough of us did - so many that this can be categorized as "normal" or "typical."

One of the many blindsiding sentiments of the betrayal is how incredibly unfair it was. It's not easy to forsake all others sometimes, but you do so out of love and commitment. If your BW ever had to turn down the advances of someone that would have been attractive to her as a single person, "Here I am honoring my vows like a chump" is likely swirling around in her brain. For now.

It's especially confusing if the BS has always had their heart in the right place and expressed good boundaries. We feel like there's some poison that's swimming around in our brain - some ugliness that was never a part of our character before but is now somehow in existence. In the aftermath and confusion of the A, we start to question our own morality and it's merits or lackthereof.

Briefly.

This is a critical window to help your BW see that this is a common response to betrayal, and she's not a bad person just for having the thoughts. Acting on them is a whole other level of brokenness, and she can be stronger than that. Help her by saying that you understand why she feels that way, but you love her and want to help her keep her sense of integrity intact. Let her know that this is ALL on you, and you want to do whatever you can to make her feel loved and desired.

Most of all, let her know that you will be there for her no matter what. This isn't giving her permission to cheat - this is acknowledging the inequity you have wrought on the relationship, and your realization that if you are asking for unconditional love and forgiveness you have to be ready to give it as well if she falls.

I know that it sounds like a tricky tightrope to walk, but I'm speaking from experience when I say that post DDay Crazz said these exact things to me, and it was this and my friends at SI that kept me from jumping off the ledge.

[This message edited by Jrazz at 4:37 PM, June 19th (Wednesday)]


We are what we repeatedly do, excellence, then is not an act but a habit. - Aristotle

Posts: 16312 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
wheelsup
Member
Member # 34809
Default  Posted: 5:48 PM, June 19th (Wednesday)

Speaking as a BS, I think you should assume she's venting and/or trying to find a way to hurt you. Try not to focus too much on this ... but instead on things that will help her heal (transparency, honesty, scheduling time together).

I think these thoughts will fade ...

I would, though, keep an eye on her. BSs are not in their right minds after DDay ... or, at least, this BS was not in her right mind after DDay. I am glad that a RA was not something I subsequently had to deal with when I came to my senses.


wheelsup

DDay #1 03/07/2011
DDay#2 04/08/2011
Four Children
2 DS 13, 8
2 DD 11,6

In Recovery


Posts: 125 | Registered: Feb 2012
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 6:16 PM, June 19th (Wednesday)

It's especially confusing if the BS has always had their heart in the right place and expressed good boundaries. We feel like there's some poison that's swimming around in our brain - some ugliness that was never a part of our character before but is now somehow in existence

I can understand that. Where I get lost is how the revenge affair is really revenge. To me, it would be more evening the score and remove the upper hand in the balance of power scale.

All that depends on who is honestly more invested in the relationship, though. Guess that is really what it comes down to. If, after dday the wayward is more invested than the BS I would think the best revenge would be dumping them.

If the wayward isn't invested don't think either would really work out too well, but at least dumping them would protect you.

I sometimes wonder if heading straight into reconciliation doesn't actually damage or destroy the chances for it. I wonder if everyone had to split up for like a 90 day period how it would help either make divorce an easier choice because the hard part of splitting up is already done or reconciliation smoother as there was time apart and both parties were sure they wanted to at least give it a shot.

The couples I see here give me so much hope. Regardless of outcome, honestly.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
Ghostrider
Member
Member # 32604
Default  Posted: 6:29 PM, June 19th (Wednesday)

She can't hurt you as much as you've hurt her. She's told you her intent. You have a choice now. She didn't.


BH (me)
WW (her)
Negative, GhostRider, the pattern is full.

Posts: 410 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: United States
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 6:32 PM, June 19th (Wednesday)

I can understand that. Where I get lost is how the revenge affair is really revenge. To me, it would be more evening the score and remove the upper hand in the balance of power scale.

I never actually had the desire to have a revenge affair. My thoughts early on were that by not having a revenge affair I would retain the upperhand in the balance of power. With three kids, I would always be able to blame the demise of my marriage on their cheating mom. (I realize that this isn't a healthy way to conduct a relationship, but at the time it made sense).


I sometimes wonder if heading straight into reconciliation doesn't actually damage or destroy the chances for it.

I see the merit in this. After I first found out I was in panic mode to try to save the relationship, my wife was still infatuated with her affair. Trying to reconcile with a spouse still fantasizing and blaming the affair on the betrayed does a lot of damage..damage that lasts. It wasn't until we separated for a while that we were able to really get our heads clear about what we wanted and whether we wanted to stay together.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1272 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
ProbableIceCream
Member
Member # 37468
Default  Posted: 7:13 PM, June 19th (Wednesday)

What's with the angry messages from BS's here?


Me: born 1982.
DD: born 2006 (I have abt 80% custody).
My D-Day was April 2012. Divorced Jul 2013.

Posts: 676 | Registered: Nov 2012
Ashland13
Member
Member # 38378
Default  Posted: 7:14 PM, June 19th (Wednesday)

Yes, my immediate reaction is that she may be seeking a revenge affair, to try to make you feel the depth of pain that she does. This is actually a very common feeling that we BS's have and I've said something like it to Perv/STBX, just saying that I wish he could understand even a tiny portion of the pain he caused me.

That got into my head-I don't want to generalize for fear of offense-but I've heard people I know locally say similar things.

My opinion on it is that I don't think it would benefit anyone in the long run and could chance hurting yet another whole entire person.

I think she simply wants to hurt you back or to know that you hurt in equal ways she does.

It's hard to imagine amidst our own pain, that a WS may have hurts, already, too.


Ashland 13

A person is a person, no matter how small. -Dr. Suess


Posts: 2134 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: New England
SI Staff
Moderator
Member # 10
Red  Posted: 8:07 PM, June 19th (Wednesday)

daledge, please read the forum description and be mindful that this is a protected forum when posting.

ProbableIceCream, please contact a mod if you see a problem. Thank you.


Posts: 10000 | Registered: May 2002
Ladyogilvy
Member
Member # 31558
Default  Posted: 9:34 PM, June 19th (Wednesday)

Speaking as another BS, a lot of my anger has been from feeling my WH didn't have the ability to understand how badly he had hurt me. Before the A, I never would have known just how damaging an A could be. It's understandable to think that the only way anyone could understand would be to go through it themselves.

If you can understand that, if you can show her you understand... Then she may calm down. But it will probably take time and it probably won't be easy. Have you both read "How to Help Your Spouse Heal After Your Affair?" It might give you both some better understanding of what to expect.


Me: BW a youthful 49
Him: alcoholic, sober now, WH 56
Married 19 years
Two sons, 16 & 17 years old
DD? He's still keeping secrets and only admits to what I have indisputable
evidence of... the $2000 earrings he bought her for x-mas.

Posts: 1512 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: California
Lostinthismess
Member
Member # 39210
Default  Posted: 9:45 PM, June 19th (Wednesday)

I said the same thing to my WH, but was mad that even that wouldn't be revenge because he wouldn't be blind sided by it the way I was. I never could/would have gone through with it though. It was a part of my venting and processing. My only advice would be to remember empathy when responding. Acknowledge to her that you understand why she would say it, discuss with her the pain you are in as a result if what you have done and that you would never wish for her to feel about herself the way you feel about what you've done. Maybe just listening and acknowledging her pain will be all she needs. Best of luck.


Dday- 4/4/13
fwh- harrypotter
'You just keep living, until you are alive again'
'I don't want perfect, I want honest'

Posts: 330 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Ca
BeautifulEmpty
Member
Member # 38763
Default  Posted: 7:16 PM, June 20th (Thursday)

BS here...I've often felt like this but it was for two reasons.
One: of course, I was so resentful that he and his OW were off, taking half days from work to play while I was dying at home.
I wanted to feel like I had something with fond memories too.
We come from a very badly managed poly amorous background but I had made a very conscious decision to not indulge in it because we couldn't handle it appropriately. I loved having a fun boyfriend as well as my husband...them being friends etc...but I hated so many other things more. I gave it up. He said he did too. So huge resentment that he was playing as I fell apart.
Two: I have a pretty well defined ability for corruption...causing it and becoming it myself. I have worked very hard to overcome this desire to do something far healthier and more positive but it still exists within me.
I felt like if I went and cheated on him now that he was so remorseful, not only would he hurt but I would debase myself so low that his betrayal wouldn't hurt so much. I mean, I would be as bad as him, right? I couldn't feel hurt because I'd be just as guilty.
I'd also feel beautiful, sexy and more like my old, strongly fierce self instead of weak, ugly and old like his straight up cheating made me feel.
It's such a mixed bag.
I guess there's a third reason but its sort of intertwined with everything else.
I am a very 'symbolic' person so I felt I needed a reset and an erasing. Erasing the lies, erasing his old self from my body and purging myself of HER disgusting betrayal (best friend) from my body. Then I could begin again fresh with a clean slate and mind.
I still wish I'd done it because I really needed that reset. I feel polluted.
On the other hand, it might have just fueled my favorite method of handling things...rug sweeping. :/


Me: 42 BS
Him: 38 ws
Ow: 44 head case, no obs
5 DD's: 21, 18, 17, 15, 10
Last D-day: August 2012 with lots of very blurry lines.

Posts: 237 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Washington State
Jospehine85
Member
Member # 35971
Default  Posted: 10:26 PM, June 20th (Thursday)

I never thought of having an A to inflict pain on my WH.

I did however get jealous that he got to have that new romance feeling, that feeling of being special that I hadn't gotten to experience for 25+ years.

I went through a phase where I just really wanted to have that pleasurable experience and it made me mad at him. WH and OW planned and took a trip together. They went out for dinner and drinks at nice restaurants within a large group together. I was sitting at home taking care of a family, not getting that fun.

I wonder if that is part of it for your wife? Maybe you should make a point of planning dates and taking her fun places. Maybe if she felt like she was being courted the same way you courted your AP, she wouldn't feel a desire to go out and experience that with someone else.


Me - BS 40s
WH - 50s
4 Kids
Dday May 2012

Posts: 811 | Registered: Jun 2012
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 1:45 PM, June 21st (Friday)

Determined, would you be okay with pointing your BW to this site. If she isn't okay with internet forums there are some good books you can direct her way. As a BH I never really considered a RA but reading around on the site definitely kept me in the right direction for my healing.

If this is your safe place now I get it. There is a ton of knowledge here for her as well to help her cope.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
D hopefully official in 7/2014

Posts: 1806 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
Nailinmyforehead
Member
Member # 38427
Default  Posted: 2:53 PM, June 21st (Friday)

As a BS, I thought of this briefly and even expressed this to my wife. I was so hung up on the "unfairness" of her A, and also the inequity that I felt. It wasn't until I realized that in a marriage, things will never be "fair". Things will never be even, and they shouldn't be. My wife told me that we should be treating each other with more gentleness, and her heartfelt apologies helped me through that RA mindset. IMHO- your spouse may do as I did, and come to the realization that there isn't some grand marriage "scale of justice." No score keeping. It isn't fair, but then again, it is not supposed to be. Coming to that realization was one of my first steps toward true forgiveness. Don't get me wrong- we still struggle A LOT. All I can work on is me.


"Son, you've got the future- shining like a piece of gold, but I swear as we get closer- it looks more like a lump of coal"

Posts: 132 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Ohio
forgivenesswins
New Member
Member # 37052
Default  Posted: 3:36 PM, June 21st (Friday)

Hopefully, it is that she is only sharing the thought and expressing how angry she is that she's driven to these thoughts, and not that she's truly intent on doing what she's thinking. If she is a reasonable person, she will understand that it is the worst thing that she could do for her own healing and for your relationship.
Best you can do is help her stay reasonable - without saying that word, mind you - but with your patience and humility.


BW- Me, 39
WH- Him, 38
Together 13 yrs.
D-Day - June 2012
DSD14, DS11, OC(D)2, DD1

Posts: 24 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: TX
ifinallyfoundme
Member
Member # 39523
Default  Posted: 4:38 PM, June 21st (Friday)

At this point I would be hurt but I don't think it would make her feel any better. I think she would feel worse actually. I feel it will just cause more confusion and hurt feelings.

Hopefully you've said these very things to your BS. Right now she is lashing out and just wants to hurt you. Keep telling her that you love her and that her body is to be cherished and savoured and how much you love her for keeping herself inspite of your foolishness. Reassure her in every possible way.


Posts: 180 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: United States
Kalliopeia
Member
Member # 35053
Default  Posted: 4:44 PM, June 21st (Friday)

I never wanted a revenge affair. Once I understood what was happening, I first tried to appeal to him to stop. He wouldn't. Then when he did stop, I just wanted to run away. Do you understand? You want to run to the person you usually do and when that person is the one who hurt you, it really becomes a major conflict of emotion in oneself.

Come back, run away because you might be hurt. Push away the one who hurt you in such a terrible way that you can't put yourself in more danger by running back.. to the person who hurt you and try to get relief.

Probably she is letting off steam. I would just listen to her when she says that. All I ever needed to hear was I was being listened to, that he understood, he was there for me, this thing he had done would never happen again because he didn't want to, he knew how badly he messed up and how he hurt me. Ineeded to hear it a lot. Over and over.

As for the impulse to put you into the position to abase yourself... it is the demand of a partner is who is hurt and frightened and angry and they are not getting what they need.

To the poster here who said that abasing themself was what got them here in the first place and once they ended the affair, they would not further humiliate themselves by acting in such ways anymore.. I don't know you and I am very aware this is a protected board... when did you start to feel you would be abasing yourself in terms of doing "anything" to help your partner recover?

I feel a little cynical, sorry. :(


Posts: 478 | Registered: Mar 2012
Topic Posts: 24