SurvivingInfidelity.com Forums
New Beginnings
User Topic: Sister's boyfriend
Crescita
Member
Member # 32616
Shutup  Posted: 12:10 PM, June 28th (Friday)

We need a slapping emoticon.

Trying to mind my own business and let her make her own mistakes, but GAH!

Every other night she calls up pissed off about something stupid, petty, controlling. Snide little comments, ridiculous concerns. They've been together 7 months and fighting steadily for 5 of them. Why won't she just break up with him?

For those who have gone down the control freak path, how did you want your friends and family to respond? Did you just want an ear, do you wish they had shook some sense into you?

I'm getting to the point where if she wants to date him I don't want to hear about it, but I'd hate to shut her out and push her further into his arms. He just brings out the worst in her and he is intimidated by me and my SO which is infuriating all on its own.


Posts: 3334 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: The Valley of the Sun
Amazonia
Member
Member # 32810
Default  Posted: 12:13 PM, June 28th (Friday)

I find that questions like, "What do you want him to do? What will it take for him to do that?" tend to work well for my bff who is in a similar situation. Although...she's been with her loser for three years now, so I guess they aren't really working.


"You yourself deserve your love and affection as much as anybody in the universe." -Buddha
"Let's face it, life is a crap shoot." -Sad in AZ

Posts: 13675 | Registered: Jul 2011
Crescita
Member
Member # 32616
Default  Posted: 12:28 PM, June 28th (Friday)

I almost worry that she likes the dynamic, that she wants to be a victim and not take control. I just can't take the woe is me I fell in love with an asshole mantra.

Posts: 3334 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: The Valley of the Sun
Amazonia
Member
Member # 32810
Default  Posted: 12:32 PM, June 28th (Friday)

drama addiction. That was me with my college boyfriend (who was abusive). We dated for 3.5 years. At one point my roommates got so sick of hearing about him that they made this little chart, with a spinning dial. It went from 0 to 100, like a speedometer, and whenever I'd come home, I just moved the dial to what "percent" we were "together". Really messed up dynamic, but I was so reliant on him.


"You yourself deserve your love and affection as much as anybody in the universe." -Buddha
"Let's face it, life is a crap shoot." -Sad in AZ

Posts: 13675 | Registered: Jul 2011
jennie160
Member
Member # 29949
Default  Posted: 12:50 PM, June 28th (Friday)

drama addiction

This was me with XH. I didn't even realize it until after it was over. I was addicted to that up and down abusive cycle.

When I was in it I always thought that everyone was against us, that they just didn't understand and never listened to them. When I finally realized what was happening it was because I made the choice to see it.

Would she be willing to go to IC? I think hearing advice from a professional my be what she needs.

If she is willing have her read "Why does he do that?" by Lundy Bancroft. This book really opened my eyes and helped me realize I needed to leave.


Posts: 921 | Registered: Oct 2010
Crescita
Member
Member # 32616
Default  Posted: 12:50 PM, June 28th (Friday)

Oh he is definitely trying to make her more reliant on him. She doesn't drive, just takes the bus. He flipped out when she got her permit without discussing it with him. I mentioned that her roommate died. That was his friend that he wanted her to live with so she wouldn't live with me and my SO. Her decision, but now she is struggling financially and going to come stay with me. He is upset she rented a storage unit instead of keeping things at his place two hours away (she is not even allowed inside). He is mad she is moving in with me and my SO for a few months to get back on her feet. He says it's like we are recruiting her??? And has made comments that it is like my SO is dating both of us, and she needs to shave since she is going to spend all the time at the pool with my SO. What? Guy is nutters and I just don't get it.

Did you just get more independent in time, or was there a breaking point?

[This message edited by Crescita at 12:55 PM, June 28th (Friday)]


Posts: 3334 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: The Valley of the Sun
Sad in AZ
Member
Member # 24239
Default  Posted: 12:52 PM, June 28th (Friday)

This was my sister for YEARS. Her H was a jerk and she did nothing but complain bitterly and never do anything about it. He was a jerk to our whole family but for her sake we put up with it. The door was always open to them, but as the years went on, she stopped visiting and pretty much communicating with us.

Now the tables have turned. Her H has mellowed amazingly, and my sister is a nutcase. I've stepped off the crazy train...


I solemnly swear that I am up to no good.

Posts: 19995 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Upstate NY
Crescita
Member
Member # 32616
Default  Posted: 12:53 PM, June 28th (Friday)

Thanks for the suggestions jennie, I'll look into that book. I have been pushing The Assertive Woman at her, but she doesn't want to read it. I used to go to this women's group called Women in Transition when I was going through my D, there was this really great life coach, and I am thinking about going again just to drag her along and introduce her.

I know this is a decision she has to make on her own, but I'm really afraid to lose my sister. She has been so unhappy and she is usually this happy kind hearted free spirited woman.


Posts: 3334 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: The Valley of the Sun
Amazonia
Member
Member # 32810
Default  Posted: 1:01 PM, June 28th (Friday)

I always thought that everyone was against us, that they just didn't understand

Yes, this^.

He says it's like we are recruiting her??? ... Guy is nutters and I just don't get it.

It's a form of gaslighting, or closely akin to it. He's training her to be biased against you. It's a control tactic. Plant the seeds of crazy and let them grow. As soon as you try to get her away from him (probably already) she will paint you as evil in her own mind, because that's what he's told her to think. I know that it sounds crazy...but I've lived through it. It's not rational, kind of stockholm-y.

Did you just get more independent in time, or was there a breaking point?

There was a breaking point for me. The second time he cheated on me. Even then, we kept seeing each other from time to time after I broke things off with him, because I felt guilty for "abandoning" him when he "needed" me. Then I moved out of the country and he stalked me virtually for a couple of years, and threatened repeatedly to show up where I was living in Asia. Still probably tries to stalk me, but I've got him firmly blocked from all avenues of contact. He knows I'm here in DC now, but I have no intention for him to know where I move next.


"You yourself deserve your love and affection as much as anybody in the universe." -Buddha
"Let's face it, life is a crap shoot." -Sad in AZ

Posts: 13675 | Registered: Jul 2011
Crescita
Member
Member # 32616
Default  Posted: 1:12 PM, June 28th (Friday)

It's a form of gaslighting, or closely akin to it. He's training her to be biased against you. It's a control tactic. Plant the seeds of crazy and let them grow. As soon as you try to get her away from him (probably already) she will paint you as evil in her own mind, because that's what he's told her to think. I know that it sounds crazy...but I've lived through it. It's not rational, kind of stockholm-y.

So should I be inviting him over for dinner? Act supportive of the relationship even when she is complaining? He keeps telling her that I don't like him, which I used to reply that I don't know him, but the more she says it, it's hard to deny because all I know is that she is unhappy in the relationship and he is making me into an adversary.


Posts: 3334 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: The Valley of the Sun
Amazonia
Member
Member # 32810
Default  Posted: 1:19 PM, June 28th (Friday)

Honestly, it won't matter. If you invite him over, he'll tell her how horribly it went and how it was obvious you don't like him; if you don't, he'll spin that too.


"You yourself deserve your love and affection as much as anybody in the universe." -Buddha
"Let's face it, life is a crap shoot." -Sad in AZ

Posts: 13675 | Registered: Jul 2011
Amazonia
Member
Member # 32810
Default  Posted: 1:27 PM, June 28th (Friday)

What I needed, at the time, was people who were patient enough to wait him out. Trust me, I had people tell me everything, do everything, etc. right and wrong. None of it helped. And I lost friends over it.

The ones who were willing to wait it out, keep just telling me quietly that I deserve good (not better - it wasn't about him, just that I deserve good), and when I finally snapped, were there waiting and ready to help me build my defenses against him - those were the people who saved me, because I really might have gone back otherwise.


"You yourself deserve your love and affection as much as anybody in the universe." -Buddha
"Let's face it, life is a crap shoot." -Sad in AZ

Posts: 13675 | Registered: Jul 2011
Crescita
Member
Member # 32616
Default  Posted: 1:40 PM, June 28th (Friday)

Thanks Ama, I'll be careful with my wording. Maybe he will dig his own grave trying to separate me from her.

Posts: 3334 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: The Valley of the Sun
cayc
Member
Member # 21964
Default  Posted: 2:11 PM, June 28th (Friday)

He is mad she is moving in with me and my SO for a few months to get back on her feet. He says it's like we are recruiting her???

I'm going to be a tad more alarmist. This is the tactic of a future abuser who is looking to isolate his victim.

So while normally, I'd be thinking "yeah, just shut her out until she learns", I think this is more the case of "be kind, generous and repeat often that you are ALWAYS there for her and are ALWAYS a safe place for her".

So her: "Gah, BF did this, said this, I feel like shit but I love him".

You say in a mild, non-judgmental tone: "I know you do. I'm here to listen. But if you ever find you need to leave him and are stuck, my door is always open to you."

Or some variation of that. The point is that she needs to hear repeated at every juncture that she can leave him and does have a safe place to land.

[This message edited by cayc at 2:12 PM, June 28th (Friday)]


"The difference between involvement and commitment is like ham and eggs. The chicken is involved, the pig is committed." -Martina Navratilova
"The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me." -Ayn Rand

Posts: 3053 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Mexico
Kajem
Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 7:08 PM, June 28th (Friday)

What Ama said along with What Cayc said.

"I am here for you, you deserve good things and people in your life, you are a good person. I am here for you." rinse and repeat, again and again.

The book.. opened my eyes as well as the Gaven DeBecker book, The Gift of Fear or something like that... IF you think he may get physical. Heck you read it. I think every woman should read it. It's about doing things that can keep us from being a victim of violence. Some of the things her BF does she might see them clearer if she is not in his orbit. I know I did!

Hugs,

K


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 5012 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
Heavy Sigh
Member
Member # 34243
Default  Posted: 10:25 PM, June 28th (Friday)

I am with Cayc. Alarmed. The fact he won't allow her in his apartment makes me wonder how many women he has chained in the attic.

But really, why won't he allow her and others to see his apartment? Got a wife in there? Bondage dungeon? Animals he mistreats and half-starves? Doesn't reallly live there at all, but it's a friend's place he uses as a mail-drop? I'd find out.


Sorry, but I see his use of the word "recruit" toward you, as projection - meaning he is accusing you of what HE is really doing.

[This message edited by Heavy Sigh at 10:27 PM, June 28th (Friday)]


Posts: 1917 | Registered: Dec 2011
Crescita
Member
Member # 32616
Default  Posted: 11:10 AM, July 10th (Wednesday)

I'm alarmed about it all too, but don't really know what to do about it. The not seeing his place really wigs me out. His a/c went out a month or so ago (in Phoenix!) and rather than having the landlordís guy come out, he spent 3 days fixing it himself. He has to be hiding something.

Honestly, it won't matter. If you invite him over, he'll tell her how horribly it went and how it was obvious you don't like him; if you don't, he'll spin that too

Oh Ama you were spot on with this

I'm not sure if any of you all remember, but I have been obsessively planning a Grand Canyon trip for my b-day this coming September. Everyone I talk to regularly has heard of it. He has known itís in the works since February. As a fair amount of planning, time, and money are involved, when it came time to request the permit in May, I only included people who said they wanted to come. He wasnít one of them. My sister is. Now he feels excluded. Though I was never thrilled with the idea of him coming, I did extend an offer via my sister (he thought we were crazy), I double checked before leaving him off the permit (I wasnít paying for maybes), suggested he could come up for a hotel stay before or after (which he found offensive). Now two months later he is a victim. I canít win.

And now my sister is starting to feel torn. She wants us to be friends, to get to know each other, by text since he is so ďbusy.Ē This is so ridiculous. Iíve been trying to prune the drama llamas.


Posts: 3334 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: The Valley of the Sun
Amazonia
Member
Member # 32810
Default  Posted: 11:16 AM, July 10th (Wednesday)

He is isolating her. It's a very common emotional (and physical) abuse tactic.


"You yourself deserve your love and affection as much as anybody in the universe." -Buddha
"Let's face it, life is a crap shoot." -Sad in AZ

Posts: 13675 | Registered: Jul 2011
Helen of Troy
Member
Member # 26419
Default  Posted: 11:35 AM, July 10th (Wednesday)

She cannot go to his place and he is angry she got a driving permit?
This sitch has so many obvious red flags, she needs a 2x4 before it's too late as in gets pregnant (tied to him forever) or he physically abuses her or something equally bad.
RUN RUN RUN
I'd risk honestly telling her your feelings if she gets upset well at least you said it. Best outcome is that she listens to you.

Posts: 4693 | Registered: Dec 2009
Amazonia
Member
Member # 32810
Default  Posted: 11:42 AM, July 10th (Wednesday)

Crescita, is your sister "intellectual"? Is she the type of person who could read a good, scholarly article on abuse and see that she's headed into a downward spiral?

If so, I would encourage you to find one and pass it along to her, express your concerns. If she's not though, it'll just reinforce what he's telling her about you making her choose, trying to drive them apart, etc. and she will retreat toward him (because that's what he's training her to do).


"You yourself deserve your love and affection as much as anybody in the universe." -Buddha
"Let's face it, life is a crap shoot." -Sad in AZ

Posts: 13675 | Registered: Jul 2011
h0peless
Member
Member # 36697
Default  Posted: 11:52 AM, July 10th (Wednesday)

Crescita, we have an organization called Kaity's way speak to our kids once a year and it's always an eye opener for the girls. There are generally a few breakups following the presentation. They are based out of the Phoenix area and I'm not sure if they have any resources for adults or not but they are great people who absolutely care and could probably point you in the right direction.

Here is a link to their web site.

http://www.kaitysway.org/


Posts: 1653 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Baja Arizona
Crescita
Member
Member # 32616
Default  Posted: 12:20 PM, July 10th (Wednesday)

Thanks for all the suggestions. My sister is an intellectual to an extent, but she veers away from self help material.

At this point I'm just trying to focus on what I can do to help without playing into the controlling sister role he is trying to box me into. I have faith in our sisterly bond, I almost want to laugh if he thinks he can come between us, but then part of me does still worry.

From some of the reading I've found on the subject, it typically takes 7-9 tries to break up with a controller. She is at 2. Long road ahead I guess.


Posts: 3334 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: The Valley of the Sun
InnerLight
Member
Member # 19946
Default  Posted: 4:33 PM, July 10th (Wednesday)

Crescita this is so hard. A very dear friend of mine was like this. Over time our whole friendship devolved into her venting about her BF and she and I didn't do anything fun together. She moved away and despite promises to stay in touch she didn't. In retrospect I feel like I was friends with an addict with all the stresses of a loved one of an addict. I still care about her but I let the friendship go, something that is different with a sister. I am so sorry, this is a terrible situation.

Maybe you would benefit from Al Anon even tho it's not alcohol, or books about loving addicts. Something so you don't go crazy trying to help your sister.


BS, age 53, d-day 6-2-08, divorced after 17 years and 20 together. dating again, living in the sticks with a cat. It's taking a long time to create new dreams and a new life but it is slowly coming together.

Posts: 5796 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Rural California
Crescita
Member
Member # 32616
Default  Posted: 11:13 AM, August 6th (Tuesday)

Just wanted to update you all, put an intention out to the universe, they broke up three weeks ago. I've been waiting to see if it stuck because they were still communicating, but he finally got around to returning her vehicle and a few other possessions yesterday, and she really seems done with him.

I think he realized she couldn't be broken because her support network was sticking around and she had no intention of giving it up.

My sister has been a little down, but there is really more of a lightness about her now. She's not in a hurry to start dating again, just focusing on herself and some long overdue goals. Things are looking up for her


Posts: 3334 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: The Valley of the Sun
Topic Posts: 24