User Topic: Do you ever wish you had left sooner?
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 11:28 PM, July 5th (Friday)

My DDay was a little over 8 weeks ago. By week 3 I had had enough of his cake eating and blame shifting, refused his clumsy attempts at a half-R (he suggested I get a sublet in case MC didn't go we'll so he wouldn't have to come home at night to me being angry because that would be hard-- poor baby!), quit my job in his office, moved out of state, found a new job and have started looking for a new place of my own. I demanded NC from him until mid-July to give myself these weeks to reset my life without his input or crap. I basically left him to stew in the new life he chose for himself. Right now, I have no intention of breaking NC next week.

The idea of him contacting ME though is terrifying. I have no idea if he stayed with IC, is with the OW, is happy with his new life, wants me back, etc. I'm 99.9% sure I have acted in the right way and I've been telling myself what he wants does not matter: I am not taking him back, even if he makes that an option. However, this brings me to my question to you all:

Sometimes I worry I didn't give him enough time. I've posted elsewhere that I worry I've been "too strong" and you have all been so helpful in letting me know there is no such thing in these circumstances! BUT, for those of you who worked through a DDay or had what was ultimately a false R, do you ever wish you did what I seem to be doing by leaving right away? Are you ever grateful that you gave them another chance, even if it didn't work out? Do you think when they are broken, they are broken no matter what?

When I think about filling a new place with our furniture and living in it alone, I get so sad. I start to wonder, if it turns out he does want to R, do I owe it to our decade + together to give it another try? Or can I afford to waste any more time on him? I'm in my early/mid 30s now... Young enough for a fresh start with someone else after a year or two of healing... Too old, perhaps, to give a WS another shot...

[This message edited by PhantomLimb at 11:32 PM, July 5th (Friday)]

BS / D

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 11:32 PM, July 5th (Friday)

I wish I'd divorced him when I first got an inkling that he was a cheater. But I didn't.

I wish I'd divorced him when his narcisstic mask came off and he began raging at me and abusing me. But I didn't.

I wish I'd divorced him when I thought he was a sex addict. But I didn't.

I wish I'd divorced him before we had children. But I didn't.

I wish I'd divorced him when I caught him sexually acting out with a baby in his arms. But I didn't.

I wish, I wish, I wish...

Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011

Posts: 9827 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
Member # 1822
Default  Posted: 11:33 PM, July 5th (Friday)

Yes! I would have been off better financially had I left when I originally filed for divorce back in 2003, before the OC was born.

Went through false reconciliation for a while, and then just limbo for a while.

All said and done, I'm managing financially on my own, get along civilly with my ex (even though I still harbor some hostility. ) and I have moved on with my life. As you can see, I'm 10 years out now, so please don't rush yourself. I would only recommend haste, if your finances are likely to be devastated. Best wishes.

[This message edited by aLadypilot at 11:34 PM, July 5th (Friday)]

Divorced 9/2010
Just married 7/4/13

Posts: 4083 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Twin Cities
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 11:43 PM, July 5th (Friday)

Haste is exactly it. I feel like this has all happened so fast...

I'm not even sure why it happened. I don't blame myself, but I wish we could have done MC to learn where our communication broke down.

I keep thinking that if it were me and I lost my way and did something this horrible, once I got out of the fog, I would die for a chance at R and I would give it my all. If he wanted to try, I would tell him he has to leave his current job (the OW is a coworker), come out to where I am now, etc. That alone would be so hard, if he agreed to it, it would be such a huge step...

But, then again, I offered him R for those first three weeks and he just messed it all up. At first he was remorseful, broke it off with her, was trying to move mountains. But as the days went on and I had a few outbursts, he started to pull away, get cruel, and then started up the A again. That's why I left.

BS / D

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 11:53 PM, July 5th (Friday)

I think he has to be moving mountains to even get a chance at R with you.. If he's not coming around begging and groveling at your feet, I would be sure I was doing the right thing, even if it feels hasty..

To answer your initial question, yeah, I wish I had left sooner. Hell, he was such an asshole, I had reasons to leave before I even found out he cheated.. I guess for my dreams of being a family and for the kids I always tried to make it work..

If your WH was being cruel, you didn't have to give him 1 more second of your time. FTG..


xBW~ 35
Two DS~ 7-Eleven
"I've wiped the shit off. It can be wiped off you know." ~ asurvivor

Posts: 2328 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
Member # 19772
Default  Posted: 12:54 AM, July 6th (Saturday)

Honestly, in hindsight, I wish I'd had the balls to tell him to walk on D-day.

I did not and put up with far more than I needed to past that. I was a pussy. I wish I hadn't been.

(sorry for the p-word, not really in my vocab, but that IS what I was at the time).

Posts: 14389 | Registered: Jun 2008
Member # 4956
Default  Posted: 1:15 AM, July 6th (Saturday)

Oh yes. I wished Id have divorced him, hmm let me think. When I got my first STD and he had NO clue why. Sureeeeeee, right!
Or when he physically abused me.
But mostly I wished Id divorced him many many years ago. Then I could have had a much better life!
Let someone else have the compulsive lying NPD,PA,CA Sa.I have had MORE than enough.

BS/60s WS/60s Divorcing and not soon enough~!
Its nice to be important, but its more important to be nice...

DD 6-14

Posts: 3102 | Registered: Jul 2004 | From: somewhere over the rainbow
Member # 38928
Default  Posted: 1:23 AM, July 6th (Saturday)

If it weren't for the kids, I would have left after D-Day#1. I had always told him, even before getting married, that infidelity was the ONE thing I absolutely would never tolerate or forgive. However, I am glad I stuck it out to allow the kids to get older to better be able to handle it. It was absolute hell for me, but a price I was willing to pay. After hearing so many horror stories involving younger children, I am relieved I don't have that added stress (and feel SO sorry for those that do!).

The bottom line, everyone is different and everyone has their own breaking point. Only you can determine if ending it quickly is right for you. At this point, I would rather be alone than remain in a toxic relationship.

BS - Me
XPOS - too many OW/OCs over 20+yrs
Kids - DDs 23,18 -DS20 Deceased
M Dissolved 2013

This above all: to thine own self be true, and it must follow, as the night the day, thou canst not then be false to any man ~ Shakespeare, Hamlet

Posts: 1191 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Rising out of Hell's ashes!
Member # 38458
Default  Posted: 1:35 AM, July 6th (Saturday)

Absolutely! If I knew then what I know I would have ended it the minute I asked who was this person he was calling day and night (after seeing our phone bill) and his answer was "I don't know who that is!"

I would silently let him continue to get himself together for work, pack ALL his shit and let it greet him in the driveway and lawn when he got home in the morning.

Instead I put up with that dumbass and all of his lies for 2 more months before DDay#2 when he admitted the "friendship" turned into an affair. Then came the worst week of my life (which I refer to as Hell-week) where he turned my life upside down and pretended like *I* was losing my mind for being upset about him cheating (practically in my face!) and what he was doing was actually A-OK!

OMG..There would be a heck of a lot less scars to heal if I had left immediately after he first lied to my face about "just a friend".

*But*... if I had, I would likely have had many doubts about ending a 10 year marriage so abruptly. Especially without the experiences and knowledge I've gained since DDay. We might have had a false R which could have led to way more than 2 more months of wasted time with a man who isn't capable of true remorse, love or reconciliation.

Me-29 Starting over
ExWH-29 Probable NPD, PA, manchild
3 beautiful young children
DDay 1/20/13 Admits PA
No remorse so NO R. DIVORCED! 9/2013

Posts: 541 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: USA
Member # 33523
Default  Posted: 3:56 AM, July 6th (Saturday)

Nope, you're doing he right thing. It's now up to him to start doing everything on his power to make you want to R.

You can file now, and call off the D should you decide to R.

Me: MH 40s; Him: MH 40s (I had RA)
OW: 30s, moron; one of many
M: 8 yrs
3/13: D'd
Everything is as it should be.

Posts: 766 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Vulcania
Member # 35229
Default  Posted: 7:20 AM, July 6th (Saturday)

I wish I had left when the shit hit the fan when my eldest was a year old (so 3 years prior to DD).

He had all but disappeared during her entire first year. He was so absent that his presence became painful. I felt abandoned and humiliated. He begged, cajoled and pleaded with me to have children yet he didn't spend any time with his first born child until she was almost 8m old and we went to a wedding in Italy.

He was going to NZ for a week for work - I told him to have a good, hard think about what kind of life, family and marriage he wanted - because I knew this wasn't the life, family nor marriage I wanted.

He came back and was the man I married again for just under a year. I fell pregnant with DD2 whilst diligently on the pill.

She is the only good thing to come out of that extra time. Plus as sad as it is to say I am glad my girls have each other - they are the only constants in each others lives. They are the only people they each see every single day.

TBH I should have cancelled the wedding. I told my sister on the night before my wedding that I didn't want to go through with it. That I didn't think he was the one. I loved him but did not trust that he could ride the storm with me. I KNEW he was not man enough when real life hit.

She urged me to walk that night - told me she would walk with me and support me.

I stayed because I was a coward and didn't want to let everyone down. I did love him intensely and immensely - I felt safe "in good times" but very very uneasy about the "and in bad".

I may have reached a point where I'd piss on him if he was on fire.... eventually!!

Posts: 5609 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Australia
Member # 20334
Default  Posted: 7:21 AM, July 6th (Saturday)

I so wish I had left sooner.
My complete lack of self esteem kept me hanging on through five OW and doing the exact opposite of the 180.

My life is so much better now.

When one door closes, another door opens. It's the journey through the hallway that sucks.

Posts: 3777 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: PA
Member # 33698
Default  Posted: 7:33 AM, July 6th (Saturday)

I was with XWH for 17 years, M for 13. After DDay #1, I thought that we had a chance to make it. He seemed remorseful, willing to try MC, and what he had told me about the A made it seem like something we could overcome.

He was also continuing to lie to me at that point. Five days later, he told me a whole bunch more, and his demeanor also began to change. Suddenly, he "wasn't sure" how he felt about the OW or what he wanted to do about us. And when I learned that it was a full-blown PA, that was it for me.

So, I called it quits after almost two decades and three children together after only five days or so. Best decision I ever made. I was finally able to step back and see him for who he really was and acknowledge the fact that I turned a blind eye to his bad qualities. I wish that I had dumped him like I almost did many years ago when we were engaged. We had another issue in our M that just wasn't going away, and I should have faced that and accepted it. Instead, I believed him when he said that he'd try to get over the issue, and I clung to my romantic view of him and of our relationship.

Although I am glad that I have my kids, I would have been better off if my 22-year-old self had walked out the door that day after giving him back the engagement ring. I'd like to think that I could have had my three children with someone else, so yes, I wish I had left him when we had only been together for about three years and could have cut ties very easily! I envy those who don't have kids with their cheaters-- I would have loved a clean break and to be able to never have to see him again.

BS (Me) 39
Happily liberated!
Two DS and One DD
It matters not how strait the gate,/How charged with punishments the scroll./I am the master of my fate:/I am the captain of my soul.--"Invictus," William Ernest Henley

Posts: 3620 | Registered: Oct 2011
Member # 35229
Default  Posted: 7:55 AM, July 6th (Saturday)

I'd like to think that I could have had my three children with someone else

^^THIS. I honestly do wish I left him when he cheated on me 6 weeks into our relationship. I thought it was too early in the relationship to call it cheating. What I now know is its never too early to believe someone when they show you who they are.

I don't subscribe to the notion that "at least I got my kids out of it". It feels so inherently.... selfish? I don't mean that as harsh as it sounds - I just can't think of another word that fits. *My* life is better for having them in it - is their life better for having parents that couldn't make it work and made them collateral damage when they were just 4 and 18m old?

I wish none of this had happened in their lives either.

I never had that compulsion to have kids. I wasn't anti-kids nor did I feel strongly enough about it to get my tubes tied or anything. I just didn't ever have the urge. I NEVER got clucky or broody. Never. I did NOT think my life would be incomplete if I did not have children. In fact I saw remaining childless as the only way to avoid the greatest fear of my life - being a single mum.

That doesn't mean I regret them - I don't, not for a nanosecond. I do regret who I had them with.

I feel I robbed myself of the chance to have these beautiful little girls with someone who deserves them.

I struggle with articulating this and I often feel misunderstood - I've sometimes felt like I should perhaps keep it to myself. Its too ugly a truth for lots of people to understand or accept.

If I could press a button and turn back time + erase my memory would I do it? Hell.No.

But if I had never experienced motherhood I never would have known what I was missing.

I feel clucky about the children I do have - not future/potential children.

[This message edited by StrongButBroken at 7:56 AM, July 6th (Saturday)]

I may have reached a point where I'd piss on him if he was on fire.... eventually!!

Posts: 5609 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Australia
Member # 21925
Default  Posted: 9:09 AM, July 6th (Saturday)

Xh: yes, I wish I had left as soon as my youngest was born. I held out another 2 years.

Stbx: yes, I wish I had left the day ow called me. I wouldn't have spent the next 6 years being mentally abused to the point I couldn't recover from the A. Wasted time.

I look at it the same way I evaluate my daughters boyfriend choices: if it isnt smoochypie good, then throw him back. Relationships are too hard unless both are pulling in the same direction

[This message edited by newnormal at 9:10 AM, July 6th (Saturday)]

BS 43 (me)
FWH 48
D-day 9/07

Dont retreat, reload.
"Pull that knife out of your back - and sever the fuel line to that bus you got thrown under" Bufffalo

Posts: 1033 | Registered: Dec 2008
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 9:21 AM, July 6th (Saturday)

Wow! This is really helpful!

Funny, I had the same "something isn't right about this" feeling before the wedding. My best friend didn't push me either way, but was so glad when we finally broke up not only because of the A, but because he thought it was a bad match to begin with. Wish someone had shook me out of it much sooner when my gut was telling me no and before the A.

Of course the breakup has been so hard, I don't know if I would have ever left if he hadn't made it impossible to stay.

And I also never wanted to have his children. I never knew why, just a feeling. Thankfully we held off for financial reasons and then were apart for a couple of months this year for work (this is when he started the A). Otherwise, who knows.

[This message edited by PhantomLimb at 9:21 AM, July 6th (Saturday)]

BS / D

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013
Member # 22870
Default  Posted: 9:24 AM, July 6th (Saturday)

I wish I had thrown him out before D-Day #1. He was that big of an asshole-he was cheating, I just didn't know it yet.

You can stuff your sorries in a sack, mister. -George Costanza
There is a special place in hell for women who don't help other women. - Madeleine Albright

Posts: 7769 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Western PA
solus sto
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 9:30 AM, July 6th (Saturday)

Yes. I wish I did what you did. I wish I'd left at the first hint of infidelity. My WH could then have shown me who he really is; either he would have stepped up to the plate, or continued down the path he was on.

You did not leave too soon. If your WS is determined to become the partner you want and nred, separation willnot stop him.

OTOH, if he is not intent on growing and changing, you will be spared the pain of years-long efforts to reconcile with someone who is not in it.

Your decision is not irrevocable. If he earns another chance, you can offer him one.

But more realistically, you paid attention when he showed you who he is.

Many of us bitterly regret not doing the same. It cost me almost 20 years. There's no getting that back.

BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 53, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8844 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
Member # 32810
Default  Posted: 9:31 AM, July 6th (Saturday)

I did leave immediately (or rather, I kicked him out immediately).

However, I think that it's important to give yourself grace. It takes time to get where you need to be emotionally.

The only reason I was able to leave, I think, so easily, is that I have been through this before, been cheated on and did the whole back and forth with another guy.... This time I knew I had no tolerance for it.

"You yourself deserve your love and affection as much as anybody in the universe." -Buddha
"Let's face it, life is a crap shoot." -Sad in AZ

Posts: 13801 | Registered: Jul 2011
solus sto
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 9:44 AM, July 6th (Saturday)

I don't like, "At least I got my kids..." either. First, they've been profoundly damaged by having a personality-disordered AND physically ill father. They're the ones whose opportunities have been most stunted, and whose souls have been most damaged. If I'd known what I now know, I would NOT have had children with a man who was going to harm them.

Also, I know their souls would have been with me, whether I had children with someone else, or even not at all. Somehow, they would have been with me.

I am sad they were born to such an uncaring father. I am sadder still that I did not see this sooner. I can't undo the hurt mykids experience.

BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 53, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8844 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 9:57 AM, July 6th (Saturday)

... But sometimes I worry my being unsure about getting married/having his kids is something he intuited and that makes me wonder about a clean slate...

BS / D

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013
Member # 3703
Default  Posted: 10:05 AM, July 6th (Saturday)

Yes I sure do. I regret taking him back after the first D-day with OW #1. It is the biggest regret of my life.

D-day OW#1 2/2004; R for 6 years; D-day OW#2 5/2010

Marriages that start this way, stepping over the bodies of loved ones as the giddy couple walks down the aisle, are not likely to last.

Posts: 3410 | Registered: Mar 2004 | From: NY
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 10:39 AM, July 6th (Saturday)

Yes...and no.

Yes, I would have been glad to not have to go through yet another d-day, the 6 months of therapy, hoping, wishing, the pain and anger.

But...then no. Because I am 100% positive I would never try again now. I think if I had left without trying...there may still be a small inkling in the back of my head somewhere...the "what if?"

me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings

Posts: 4186 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: South
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 11:07 AM, July 6th (Saturday)

The "what if" is killing me. At the same time, I've talked to few people who felt their attempt(s) at R were ultimately worth it.

I like the idea of making him work for it if he wants it. But, if history serves, he won't.

In the meantime, I'm still terrified of what I'll do if he calls. I've been strong in front of him, but I feel like I'm one more incident away from having to be committed.

[This message edited by PhantomLimb at 11:08 AM, July 6th (Saturday)]

BS / D

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013
Member # 9078
Default  Posted: 12:27 PM, July 6th (Saturday)

Oh 1000 times yes!

I would have been better off in every way if I had listened and ran after DDay #1.

I would've been younger.
I would've still had my house.
I would've still had my retirement money and savings.
I would've been less emotionally damaged.

I regret every single chance I gave him.

You've done the right thing. He has SHOWN you who he really is, his default coping mechanisms, his default ways of reacting under stress. Believe him.

If he does a complete turn around and shows you he's a changed man, then you can always remarry him.

[This message edited by phillygirl at 12:42 PM, July 6th (Saturday)]

Me - BW
Him - WH
Divorced - 7/2013

Posts: 826 | Registered: Dec 2005
Member # 36434
Default  Posted: 3:50 PM, July 6th (Saturday)

Sometimes. On the other hand, I have 2 amazing kids who wouldn't be here if I'd left after the first time, so for myself, I can't regret it. Still, I should have left. I would've been so young (only 26!) that I still could've done anything, and life as a single mom would've been so much easier with only one child. Now I'm 34 and starting over with 3 kids after 9 years as a SAHM. And if I'd left back then, he was ready to just let me walk away, so it would've been so much easier, and I would've left with no debt. Now all of our assets (we didn't have a lot) are eaten up by the cost of the divorce (well, except for his pension, which is not insignificant) and he wishes I was dead. I definitely should've left the first time.

Edit: I think I'm saying the same as SBB, because I wouldn't undo my kids, but I can see where I should have left. I do not regret them, but I still acknowledge that I *should have left*. I wouldn't know what I was missing if I hadn't had the younger two (or any of them) but I certainly don't wish I hadn't had them. It's complicated.

[This message edited by Coraline at 3:56 PM, July 6th (Saturday)]

Me: BW, 34 Him: WH, 35
3 Kids: 9, 3, and 1
Decree nisi will become absolute in January. We are DONE.

Posts: 771 | Registered: Aug 2012
Member # 36857
Default  Posted: 3:53 PM, July 6th (Saturday)

At first he was remorseful, broke it off with her, was trying to move mountains. But as the days went on and I had a few outbursts, he started to pull away, get cruel, and then started up the A again. That's why I left.

Sure, throwing away 10 years seems like a waste. It's not as bad as it will be if you have kids with him and he chests again.

I think he's made his choice. So what if he calls and asks for another chance, it will only last until the next time you get upset, or he gets upset, or it's a full moon, or whatever.

I divorced quickly and am glad I did.
You sound like you'd like to give him another chance. What would that be like? Always second guessing what he's doing, wondering if he'll do it again, wondering if he'll go back to her.

If I were in your shoes, I'd be less concerned about the initial A than the fact that he went BACK to her! Huh?.? That would be more than plenty for me. No more chances. You've already changed your whole life (moving, job, etc.). Your instincts are good. Move on.

I'm so sorry this happened to you. You deserve better.

Best to you.

Me: BH 58.........Her: WW 45
DD: 8..........DS: 5
Married for six years.
DDay: 12-25-11 Divorced: 7-15-12
"It's like a nightmare within a nightmare, which in and of itself is a nightmare!"

Posts: 954 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: U.S.A.
Member # 19595
Default  Posted: 3:55 PM, July 6th (Saturday)

I do wish I had left and filed the day after dday. I knew FT would never do what was needed to R. Instead I had 3 mo of false R and 3 yrs of separation limbo.
Not exactly good for the self healing.
Should of would have..

It's my life now, my choices, my mistakes to make and my victories to celebrate. His choices made me free of liars and betrayers in my life. That is priceless.

Posts: 20383 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Closer to where I want to be..
Member # 39667
Default  Posted: 4:13 PM, July 6th (Saturday)

Don't make decisions when you are depressed or not thinking rationally. People usually make bad decisions under those circumstances. If you don't know what to do, do nothing for awhile. People keep telling me you know when you know. I have asked other older 55+ yo women about their divorces years ago and they do say they wish they had gotten out sooner. But hindsight is always 20/20 and sometimes you want to walk away knowing you gave it your best shot. This is what I am thinking/telling myself as we try to R.

Good luck.

BS - mid-40's
SAWH - mid 40's
Kids - 2 elementary school aged
Getting tons of therapy and trying to "work it out"

Posts: 910 | Registered: Jun 2013
Member # 34146
Default  Posted: 4:30 PM, July 6th (Saturday)

I like the idea of making him work for it if he wants it. But, if history serves, he won't.

Sounds to me like he doesn't have what it would take for a successful R, then.

I, too, wish I would have immediately asked for a divorce on D-Day instead of wasting a month trying to convince him to pick me. Life is so much better when you only have honest, loving people in it.

Me: BW, divorced, now fabulous and happy!

Married: 11 years, no kids

Character is destiny

Posts: 3406 | Registered: Dec 2011
Member # 38378
Default  Posted: 4:50 PM, July 6th (Saturday)

STBX here was so thorough at tricking me that I didn't know the full extent of what he was doing. Then came the trickle truth for so long. Other people did.

For me, I had to exhaust every avenue and basically be hit on the head before I could finally end it "for real", because my mind would have searched for the rest of my life for the "could've's, should've's and what if's?"

However, once I started learning more, the door did shut, though he is so pig headed he may think he still has a chance.

Ashland 13

A person is a person, no matter how small. -Dr. Suess

Perserverance and spirit have done wonders in all ages.

-George Washington

Posts: 2287 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: New England
Member # 38378
Default  Posted: 4:52 PM, July 6th (Saturday)

P.S. He abandoned us (snuck out in the middle of the night and went into hiding, leaving many overdue bills) before we had knowledge of cheating or any OW, lived a double life and so I didn't have full information for quite a long time, either.

Ashland 13

A person is a person, no matter how small. -Dr. Suess

Perserverance and spirit have done wonders in all ages.

-George Washington

Posts: 2287 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: New England
Member # 35813
Default  Posted: 9:36 AM, July 7th (Sunday)

Yes, I do wish I would have left sooner. In fact when I really think about it, I wish I would have broken up with him when we were first dating. I remember early on dealing with his obsessive jealousy and drinking problem. We went to a friend's wedding and he accused ME of cheating in front of a whole table full of people at the reception. Later on that night the fight continued and he managed to get himself kicked out of our hotel. I remember the front desk guy talking to me and telling me
I was beautiful didn't need to put up with his abuse. But the problem was, even though I saw all the signs I wasn't confident enough to be on my own, I suppose I didn't believe I deserved better. I could have saved myself YEARS of grief had I dumped his sorry ass that night.

But a bright light in all of this, is that all of those years made me stronger. As my IC has said, I will heal and be stronger because of my experiences.

Today would be my 6th wedding anniversary. I have been officially divorced for just over six months. I had one serious rebound relationship which wasn't good either but it did teach me a lot about myself. I have now been totally single for almost 4 months and I realize my rebound relationship was too soon. I am not looking anymore. I am living my life for me, and I am determined to not settle again. I am becoming comfortable being alone.

Would I change things? Yes and no. I wish I would have made better choices in my life. But, I also think now I have the life experience to ow know what I want and don't want. My life is pretty good now, better than it has been in years and I am happy. A year ago I never thought I would be saying that!

Me: BW 38, Him: WH 37
M: 07/07/07
DDay: 06/09/12
Divorce Granted on December 5, 2012 - fasted divorce ever (thanks to my good lawyer) and I am not looking back with ANY regrets!!

"And this above all else, to thine own self be true"

Posts: 254 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Alberta
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 11:03 AM, July 7th (Sunday)

Thank you, Everyone. I've had a couple of bad days and reading these responses helps so much.

What I'm finding sucks about this is that my instincts tell me to continue doing what I'm doing and walk. If i can keep myself solid in that decision, it doesnt matter if he calls, doesnt, is with the OW now, wants to R, whatever. But to keep myself solid I have to remind myself of what he put me through. So I get to relive the betrayal, the horrible things he said, etc. Super fun.

When loneliness or doubt creeps in, I have to do the same thing: remember the horrible things he said in those last couple of conversations. Reflect on the lies, etc. Even though I asked for NC, in some sense, his silence and lack of support in general has been like a form of abuse. For the first couple of weeks he would just forward emails to me that showed he had cancelled this or that account, blocked my access to this online newspaper, cancelled vacation plans or changed flights. Friends and family called him to see if he was okay and he wouldn't answer or return their calls. He said nothing to my family or mutual friends.

That's why I like your advice, nomistakeaboutit. I like tough love. Yeah, from all appearances, he's made his decision. When I get comfortable with that, I feel even more solid and empowered. He wants to drop me after 10 great years, fine. I have no regrets and I'll be alright on my own.

It's just the prospect he could change his mind. That the fog could lift. But after all I have been through--not to mention my friends ands family-- so what. He doesn't just have to R with me, he has to R with about a dozen people who have been touched by this. And this was so unexpected, you're right... I think I would always live in fear and doubt. If he was capable of something this hideous after 10 good years and no one saw it coming, how could I ever feel secure again.

I think I just typed out my internal monologue of the last week :)

[This message edited by PhantomLimb at 11:03 AM, July 7th (Sunday)]

BS / D

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013
Member # 24534
Default  Posted: 7:58 AM, July 8th (Monday)

I am in the minority when I say I am glad I didn't leave as soon as DDay.

I gave R 2 years and it didn't work out. But at least I can look back and say with all honesty and certainty that I gave it all I could, that I left nothing on the table and I can move on. There will be no what ifs or regrets.

But that is just me. If I hadn't had a child I would have been gone the night I found out about the A.

BS (me) 40
WH - 48
Married 12 years
DS - 12
D-day 06/21/09
Separated....hopefully divorcing soon.

Posts: 630 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Canada
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 9:32 AM, July 8th (Monday)

BUT, for those of you who worked through a DDay or had what was ultimately a false R, do you ever wish you did what I seem to be doing by leaving right away?
Looking back on it sure I wish I had left. I went through months of TT and a year of false R before I was ready to leave. The only "but" I have about leaving sooner is that for me going through the false R made me do some work on myself that helped me work through some pretty horrid codepedancy issue I had. My M was broken by the A but I came out of it a complete person. When I did leave I KNEW I had "left it all on the field" and I had no regrets.

Are you ever grateful that you gave them another chance, even if it didn't work out?
Yes, it took 2 years of my life but the work I did on me was worth it. I am and will continue to be a better Father because of it and honestly there was no other way for me to get through it then the long painful road I chose to take. Everyone on SI told me what was down that path but I HAD to take that path in order to get where I am now. It sucked big time but I am okay with it now.
Do you think when they are broken, they are broken no matter what?
No, there are FWS's on this site that show that isn't true. I will say that it takes a strong and courageous person to look into themselves admit their faults and actively go out and seek to addres and resolve those issues to become a better person. Not everyone can do it. Those that can't DO remain broken and keep repeating the same cycles over and over. This applies to anyone not just WS's. As a BS that had issues I had to do some digging into my own issues to overcome Codep, KISA issues, and a complete overhaul of my "picker". If there were 9 stable people and 1 broken person in a room. I ALWAYS picked the 1 broken person.

So this was a long way of saying sure I wish I had left sooner but looking back I am glad I took the path that I did because I came out of it a healthy and complete person. If you choose to leave now make sure you spend some time focusing on you. This shit sucks and you may not have any issues but you want to make sure you leave a complete person.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 9:36 AM, July 8th (Monday)]

D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1912 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 10:08 AM, July 8th (Monday)

Sadly/Ironically, my issue is that I like to "rescue" people (and animals, come to that). So my instinct is to commit to walking away for myself, yet part of me does want to give him a second chance because I love him, I don't want to see him keep repeating these patterns and I know I'm strong enough to give it a shot. I want the chance to "leave it all on the field"...

But it seems that my gut instinct has been winning throughout all of this. I look back and still don't know how I had the courage to 180, NC, etc. in the middle of all of the initial trauma. I think, as some of you have said, I focused on his actions and they spoke volumes.

I remember looking at him when he was going through one of his blameshifting monologues (which was usually followed by a sobbing half-a apology) and thinking to myself "This guy is a mess. This is irrevocably broken." I just keep trying to remind myself of what I knew to be true in those moments.

When you cut and run this fast, you're left with so little "data". My idea of him is overwhelmed by the 10+ good years we had together, and it gets easy to forget that, despite those good years, for the last 3 weeks he was a monster.

[This message edited by PhantomLimb at 10:08 AM, July 8th (Monday)]

BS / D

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 10:21 AM, July 8th (Monday)

When you cut and run this fast, you're left with so little "data".
Not necessarily, just because you decide to leave doesn't mean your WS can't keep working on themselves. I probably should have added to my response that when I did decide to leave I spelled out my needs and boundaries to my STBX and promptly sat back and watched for actions as I worked on myself. So if you gut is saying leave then I say follow your gut. If your WS was going to do the work then he would do the work whether you were there or not. His work shouldn't be conditional on you staying. He should do it because he wants to be a healthy and whole person and fix what he destroyed.

So if you chose to leave you will still get "data". Is he working on himself in a meaningful way or is he proving that you made the right decision. Either way you see the action or inaction and continue on the path you choose.

D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1912 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
Member # 14003
Default  Posted: 10:24 AM, July 8th (Monday)

Do you ever wish you had left sooner?

Without a doubt, YES!

Walk away from anything or anyone who takes away your joy. Life is too short to put up with fools.

Posts: 13809 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Houston
Member # 36654
Default  Posted: 3:12 PM, July 8th (Monday)

I think we can all regret not leaving in the beginning. R is a hard painful road and doesn't always work out to everyone's expectations. We all want the totally remorseful spouse who would and does everything to fix what they broke. We all wish our marriages came out of this shit storm stronger than it was before. The facts however is that this rarily happens in most cases. So many of us are left with unremorseful, lying spouses with multiple DD's, false R, and the added pain that follows. We wind up finally having to face what we didn't want to face. We usually wind up D'd or worse, willing to put up with the abuse in order to keep our marriages together the best way we know how knowing we will never have the marriage we thought we had or the spouse we once thought they were. Infedelity is the worst possible thing to ever happen to a person, some even say it's even worse than losing a child or their parents. I have never lost a child thank God, but I have lost my parents and I can attest to the fact that it's been worse than losing them. They didn't die to hurt me, but the man I loved more than anything with all my heart purposely betrayed me in the worst ways possible.
As the TT, false R, somewhat real R, etc.. has went on it slowly kills the love that you had for this person and leaves you very bitter and angry at the selfishness of the person who was supposed to love you and protect you above all else. So yes, with 20/20 vision, I wished I had left after DDay#1. I had already filed for D before I ever even saw WH#2. I should have filed and went NC with him immediately. Instead I dropped the D because he said he was sorry and swore it was over with the OW. I listened to his blame shifting, gas lighting, and total BS for another year until DDay #2. Then stupid me listened again to the BS. Now I am faced with living this life that I no longer want because of my health and financial circumstances. He is a rug sweeping alcholic who will never put enough effort into the marriage or himself to ever make me truely happy again. For those that are younger and healthy, please don't spend years trying to fix a marriage plegged by infedelity. If there actions do not show immediately that they are remorseful for the hurt they put you through, then get out or get them out of your life. You and your children don't need someone who is half in and half out of the marriage. For those that are young and have no children, run and don't look back. You all deserve so much more. (((HUGS)))

M-9 yrs T-11 yrs
4 children-none together
DD#1-9/5/11 LTA 2yrs
DD#2-7/3/12 False R
DD#3-4/29/13 (OW broke NC)
Status: Your guess is as good as mine.

Posts: 2420 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: Texas
Member # 33956
Default  Posted: 3:14 PM, July 8th (Monday)

i understand where you are coming from. i do. after the first dday, i was so pathetic, i was the one begging, trying to "get him to see"...i had no self respect for my self...didnt see my value. and he walked all over me. he actually said to me that giving me access to his phone, was a deal breaker for him!! it was all bad. and then 9 months later, i learned i was in false r.
i was done. i kicked him out...we separated for 3 months..and he was still a jerk...and still seeing another was all bad.

but, i took my mothers advice...and the people from SI who told me to 180 him hard. and i did. i went nc...and moved forward with my own life. why didnt i file for d immediately. because in my heart...after all he had done...i wasnt ready. you know? i think you know when you doubts or anything. well, like you i was "asking questions" still.

a lawyer told me that he knows the difference of when his client is ready to divorce...or not. and i clearly was not ready yet because i still thought.."if only he would do this...or what if he calls and does this?"

if you have doubts...and it is clear that you do...there is nothing wrong with doing a serious 180.....nothing at all. you continue to go to ic, get help for the pain, set some clear boundaries for you....that cannot be negotiated...and give yourself time. a few months from dday is still very early. and when there are children involved, it makes it even more complicated.

you can divorce him whenever you want...and you dont have to be subjected to any cruelty from him if you could consider giving it 6 months to a "see what happens." there is no shame in that. and if you do decide to divorce him, well, then you will know that you did all you could....and can walk away with no "questions."

my husband eventually got his head out of his ass....and agreed to all my requirements for has been a long, painful, and rocky road attempting to r...but we are doing the work. if he screws up again, i will divorce him without hesitation.

stay strong. you can be strong and 180 him.

BS (41):(Former Doormat)
WS (39):(Busted Cheater)
Married: 10 years, 3 kids under 5
DD1: 10/11 PA/EA with pilates instructor/former stripper.
DD2: 10/12 False r, cheating with other women, online dating,Substance abuse issues.
R:Last chance

Posts: 987 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: Alabama
Member # 39077
Default  Posted: 3:43 PM, July 8th (Monday)

You did the right thing.

There's no way to feel serene or calm or content when you're processing major trauma. Even the blank shock, or disassociated state most of us go through for the first span may give the illusion or appearance of being calm, but it isn't the same.

Even when we stay with a spouse, even when they are 100% remorseful, even if they are trying for complete transparency, I don't think the full story is ever known. People that commit betrayals like that live in tangled realities with so much disconnected or skewed, there really isn't a way to see what was "real" versus how they imagined it.

Don't beat yourself up for the unknown "if."

For me, I'm at the place where I think I possibly made a mistake in being in the relationship I'm in, that we've never been on the same page. We're in R, but I'm starting to understand more the ramifications for me personally and there's no good answer.

If you can make a clean break, do it.

[This message edited by Reality at 4:54 PM, July 8th (Monday)]

Posts: 292 | Registered: Apr 2013
Member # 34146
Default  Posted: 9:21 PM, July 8th (Monday)

What I'm finding sucks about this is that my instincts tell me to continue doing what I'm doing and walk.

The main thing I worked on in IC was trusting my gut.

When I look back on my life, every single bad decision was when I was going against my gut instincts.

Me: BW, divorced, now fabulous and happy!

Married: 11 years, no kids

Character is destiny

Posts: 3406 | Registered: Dec 2011
Member # 5929
Default  Posted: 9:52 PM, July 8th (Monday)

My XH cheated many times while we were dating, and once while we were engaged. I admit sometimes I wish I would have been strong enough to walk away well before I said "I do".

Keep calm and carry on.

Posts: 49482 | Registered: Nov 2004 | From: Minneapolis
Member # 16394
Default  Posted: 2:11 AM, July 9th (Tuesday)

If by your leaving he came out of the A fog,well.........

He would be breaking down your door, pleading for a second chance. Telling you freely it is you he wants and no other. That he is ashamed of his behavior and will do what it takes to prove to you that in future your life will be safe, secure and filled with his undying love.

Has any of that happened? If he was wiser now, he wouldn't listen to your request of NC, he would be acting on his desire to win you back and rebuild the M.

So far that isn't happening. So don't doubt yourself for protecting the essence of you. Stay strong.

If he does contact you, let him speak his piece. Don't give him any hints of how you might give him a second chance, He needs to ask for that chance. Watch the actions. (His sending emails, telling you he is closing accounts etc, says so much about where his head is at.

BS-me FWS - him
D-day 8/04

"Global editing disclaimer - I edit almost everything I post, and I am not going to post why every time." Bionical girl

Posts: 2986 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: New York
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 10:06 AM, July 9th (Tuesday)

You're right. All of you are giving some really great advice.

I like the idea that NC also means "no hurt". During our breakup he would call me and do this whole fake "I'm so worried about you" / "checking in" act. It was like he was checking in with a repair man-- this phony, distant tone of voice. That's what I'm also afraid of: some kind of sense of obligation on his part to check in once the initial NC term is up. That would hurt so much.

So would finding out he's with her now.

So would finding out he didn't stay in IC.

So would realizing after a few days that he's NOT going to call.

It's a no win until I get some more distance, allow myself to have a few more crying fits, begin to learn to push it all out of my mind so I can work.

So the advice to do this at a pace I can handle is also so valuable. Keep up the 180. I'm still seemingly doing everything right in that respect (outwardly). Put money down on a new place for myself before going on a business trip (where I am now) to give a presentation alone on something we designed together (truth be told, I'm privately still such a mess, I really should have backed out, but I'm trying to move forward). Sure, I'm running back to my hotel room so I can sob every few hours... But no one knows that but me, you guys and the poor friends who check in daily.

And you guys really think that a few months isn't too long to still be feeling this way? I found out end of April, yadda yadda, NC / full 180 (after DDay#2) May 10th ish. I had a good week or so in mid June and thought I was making progress but lately I feel Iike I'm as bad as I was in the beginning. I have more mental clarity and I can control the crying better... But the pain and sorrow is just as intense.

BS / D

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013
Member # 39077
Default  Posted: 10:26 AM, July 9th (Tuesday)

Conservative estimates are two to five years to process it completely. That sounds like forever, I know. It's completely normal to have good and bad days. Over time, those good days get more frequent, but bad days can still pop up, sometimes inexplicably, from time to time. Nothing wrong with you when that happens - it's just part of the process.

NC is a huge help with giving you space and safety. A lot of the worst trauma is having to assimilate new terrible information when you're already incredibly wounded. You gave yourself a huge gift by having time to think before dealing with more details.

<3, Phantom. Wishing all the best for you.

Posts: 292 | Registered: Apr 2013
Member # 30940
Default  Posted: 11:06 AM, July 9th (Tuesday)


Keep your head straight about the truth and reality of your WH. You may have 10+ yrs worth of seemingly good memories, but that is now morphed by what you have learned about him (infidelity changes everything): He is entitled, selfish, immature. He has disrespected you and the M, and has hurt you in the worst way possible. (And still is by his ongoing indifference and apathy.) He is sneaky; a liar; comfortable with deception and manipulation...and with humiliating you. He was comfortable betraying your trust, talking about you behind your back, and giving himself to another woman both emotionally and physically what belongs to you. He was/is not protective of you and the M. He will do what feels good to him without any regard for you and your feelings. What he did was cruel. And, this is the short-list of reasons why you wouldn't even choose him as a friend let alone a H. Keep this all straight in your head. Let those mind movies of them f'ing play in your head. It is all very painful, but this IS the truth and reality of your WH and M. Now that you know the truth about him, you can make informed decisions about YOUR life and your future...who to hold close, 'let in', and allow to be a part of your life...and who to keep at a distance or eliminate. To help you keep perspective, also keep in mind that IF you were to attempt R and to move forward with the M, it would mean incorporating all the ugly, disturbing truth and reality of him and what he did to you into the M. I have been reading infidelity forums for many years...and know personally several BS...and I can tell you that "R" can come at a huge price...often including compromising your your dignity and self a chronic struggle to 'get over it' or accept or incorporate infidelity into your M. It is a hard road with even the most remorseful WS. And, I have read numerous posts by BS who believed they were happily R'd...who down the road...even years later...find they cannot suppress any longer the unsettling truth and reality of the infidelity which occurred in their M. They revisit the prospect of D, but struggle a whole new kind of struggle because they've been allegedly happily R'd for years with a 'wonderful' WH. But they want out because it was never ok that their WH cheated; it was a deal-breaker all along. I am guessing that since you relatively quickly exited the M shortly after D-day that infidelity IS a deal-breaker for you. Hold onto that truth; honor it and honor yourself by living consistent with your own values.

Sorry...such a rambling post!

You have no kids. You can cut your losses, make a clean break, and be done with the bs associated with infidelity.

Whenever you 2nd guess your decision to leave, mentally recreate that list of all the many reasons you do not want to go backwards into a relationship riddled with distrust, lack of care, and the glaring truth that your WH does/did not love you the way a husband should love a wife.

Take his A at 'face value'. See it for what it is. Stay in reality.


I'm back together again.
I'm staring in the mirror
and it's been so long
since I've seen you my friend.

~Citizen Cope

Posts: 456 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: PA
Member # 32789
Default  Posted: 11:29 AM, July 9th (Tuesday)

Sorry, PL. Sorry you are dealing with all this.

Yes, I wish I had left sooner. I often thought that I could move into the condo with the twins instead of his parents moving (we were getting them out of our house).

I was too afraid. I didn't know how to approach the situation and how I would handle everything.
Once the dust settles and you realize that you can do it on your own and it's better than being in a shitty relationship you think, "why didn't I do this sooner?"

It still sucks.
It still hurts.
The pain can still take your breath away.

I am in a roller coaster dip right now so take anything I say with a grain of salt.
Nowhere to go but up right?

BS: (Me) 47
Kids: twins DD(10)
D-Day April 18, 2011
Him:out Sept. 11, 2011
He moved to Europe June 27, 2014.
"They say that absence makes the heart grow fonder but I am growing more and more fond of his absence"

Posts: 1422 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: Ontario, Canada
Member # 20563
Default  Posted: 3:36 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

From someone who is "reconciled". Yes. Reading your posts makes me think of a Dr Philism. Te only thing worse than feeling like you wasted 10 years is wasting 10 years and... A day, a month, another 10 years.

You said yourself, he is broken. You can not fix him. IF he does the work, fixes himself, gets healthy And you are still around And He moves the mountains with his actions to prove that to you. No law says you can't take him back then.

You are young enough to carve out the life you desire. Carpe Diem.

You will be sad, are allowed to grieve. Just remember, sometimes taking the hard road initially makes for a much more comfortable road long term. Hugs to you

Me- BS
Him- FWS (I hope- F)

Posts: 6605 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Not Oz
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 4:17 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

Genius: your post made me smile for the first time today. On the plane ride last night I imagined what I would say if he actually did ever ask for R and wrote it down. It hit almost every single thing you listed here!

All of the work I've done since DDay has been to convince myself that it is over, no R, I deserve better. Part of that, admittedly, is because he did make it impossible to R on my terms and I refused to chace/beg him. I've been trying to mourn the relationship now instead of allowing myself to hang in limbo. I even sent goodbye letters to his family. And, yes, NC has helped me get so much further down that sobering road. Evidently I can live without him. Not happily, yet... But it is happening.

I'm thinking now that perhaps what is going on is that I'm coming out of my own trauma a little more and beginning to learn my triggers. Doing this business trip without him has been brutal. Happy couple at the airport? Ugh. Gag me. Anyone still wearing a wedding ring-- I hate them, too (I miss mine so much!). Love song on the radio? Anyone have any tissues? Oh, look, his favorite whiskey. Oh, look, that new movie is set in the town where "our" place is-- now "his" place-- and where our new life together was supposed to start. A phone call that the dog is sick-- again (she hasn't stopped throwing up or wetting the bed since we/he left and the vets can't find anything physically wrong). Something else I have to deal with on my own...

It just gets so overwhelming... But I was just sitting in a cafe thinking simultaneously: he would love this, I wish he were here... And Oh god, the site of his stupid face would probably make *me* vomit. So maybe I miss companionship, security... Not him per se.

And one of the reasons I 180ed was because I do think it is a deal breaker for me. Even if he had been fully remorseful and stuck with R, I can't help but think the loss of innocence I had with my trust and love for him would be so broken that, eventually, I would feel like I had compromised myself to a degree that I would need out. Maybe it would take years, but i bet i would eventually have to admit the foundation is broken for good. And, truth be told, I think even he recognizes that for both of us. He may not have started this as an exit affair, but I think we both realize that between his FOO, PD and abandonment issues and my rescue complex, trying to R could be an unholy mess that drags us both to some ugly places.

So you guys are right, if there aren't kids in the picture and we're now geographically apart (and OW is a coworker, so I basically left them together out there), why choose R? It would be less work for me to just find someone else, in theory. And no one is going to be able to break my heart like this again (only he could). If he keeps doing what he's doing, he doesn't have to quit his job, face his demons directly, face me... And he has a brand new relationship (and family) willing to accept him even though he is the guy who left one fiancÚ before meeting me and then cheated on me, forcing me to quit a prestigious job, abandoned my family, etc. The answer to my own question is that because you are committed and love each other... But what this experience is teaching me is that, to my dismay and sorrow, that isn't as important to some people. Not even the man you shared your life with all of these years...

[This message edited by PhantomLimb at 4:21 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)]

BS / D

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013
Member # 35229
Default  Posted: 5:48 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

Even if he had been fully remorseful and stuck with R, I can't help but think the loss of innocence I had with my trust and love for him would be so broken that, eventually, I would feel like I had compromised myself to a degree that I would need out.

I had a 3m False R where I had to forgive him for some boundary crossing Worse, I had to forgive myself for staying

Towards the end I found it harder and harder to forgive myself. Once that happened I found I stopped forgiving (rugsweeping) his boundary crossings too. I kept all of them alive in my head - every damaging thing he said/did before and after DD. Anytime I felt wistful or lonely I would sit myself down and force myself to recall those mind-movies.

I once told him he wasn't good enough for me to attempt R with - even infidelity aside. Whilst it was true it took me a few months to realise that *I* was too good to attempt R with him. I was too good to even be married to a guy remotely like that.

I deserve better - so much better. You do too.

I may have reached a point where I'd piss on him if he was on fire.... eventually!!

Posts: 5609 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Australia
Member # 30940
Default  Posted: 5:48 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

Love song on the radio? ..... Oh, look, his favorite whiskey. Oh, look, that new movie is set in the town where "our" place is-- now "his" place-- and where our new life together was supposed to start.
....I was just sitting in a cafe thinking...he would love this, I wish he were here


I just wanted to make a point about what you wrote. I do not know the length of your WH's A, but, apparently it sounds to have gone on for some time. This means that 'they'...your WH & OW...have their own shared memories. Sickening, I know. There are things in his day which remind him of her ~ her favorite song plays; maybe 'their' song even; you prepare dinner and, unbeknownst to you, it is a reminder of her because it happens to be her favorite dish; a commercial on TV is for her perfume; you/he drive past a place he knows is her favorite store, restaurant, etc.; the name of a comedian she adores keeps flashing in advertisement on a billboard; this list is endless when it is a lengthy A or one which began after/during many years of working together. So, one of the lesser discussed things which a BS of an A of length must endure during alleged never knowing if/when your WH is mentally off reminiscing about OW while being physically present with you. You would never know. And when he's driving along and singing passionately to a love song, that uneasy feeling comes over you because you wonder if he is secretly savoring some memory of OW as you sit, invisible, next to him. How would you know? You could ask, but then can you believe him if he answers "of course not!" After all, he's proven himself to be a smooth liar and a master of deception. My point: You are in a good place right now. To go back...would be riddled with all kinds of big and little hurts and challenges that just come with the infidelity/betrayal territory.

I'm back together again.
I'm staring in the mirror
and it's been so long
since I've seen you my friend.

~Citizen Cope

Posts: 456 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: PA
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 6:44 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

Totally. I saw it creep out in our conversations before DDay. I showed him a pair of shoes I was particularly proud of and he would say "oh OW loves shoes, too!". I tried on a dress for him and mentioned I wanted to slim down a particular part of my thighs before going out in it and he told me that OW says the same thing about her legs. Of course these were MAJOR red flags. I mean, god, if I had a brain in my head I should have jumped all over him for the thigh thing alone! Why would a coworker be talking to you about that? But I trusted him to be able to have a friend.

The only time I did say something was when she texted him a family photo or herself, her mom and daughter in the middle of the night. I told him that was weird and he dismissed it as a follow up to a casual conversation they had about family portraits at work that day. That was the only time I ever saw her, by the way. I dont remember what she looks like exactly, but I remember looking at the photo and asking him which one was the mother and commenting "well I guess I don't need to be jealous". I get a cookie for that. :)

I tried to put a signature with my details in it, but I must have put it in the wrong place. To answer your question: he tells me the affair started in February, a coupe of weeks after I left town for a couple of months on business. At the time, they knew each other less than a year (he just started the job May 2012). I knew they started a friendship back in the Fall when she filed for divorced and asked people in the office to help her move out. My WS, against my recommendation, was the only one who showed up. After that they would run errands together here and there and that sort of thing. He claims the affair started out of the blue when she kissed him one afternoon and they slept together. I find that hard to believe. It was an EA well before that, at least. That said, I can remember the night he came home after the first time he slept with her, so I believe it was the start of the PA.... I was already out of state working and we were on Skype. He told me he had gone to an afternoon movie at an old movie theater we used to go to all of the time, but when I tried getting in touch with him ater the movie was out, his phone was off. This man is never without his phone, so it didn't make sense. He was already sobbing and hysterical when he got on the computer. That threw me off. I started to confront him about where he was and he got to the point that I thought he was having a nervous breakdown and claimed that he had to turn the phone off because he couldn't look at it anymore. The job wasn't going well. He was stressed beyond belief. And, most of all, he said it was "really hard" for him to be alone there. I started to feel guilty after that because I did choose to take this job that took me away from him. I tried to comfort him... But by the time we hung up I was thinking I might need to come out there or get him a doctor, he was that distraught.

But he carried on the affair from there. Over the weeks that followed he got more distant, answered fewer calls. As I was beginning to prepare to move back out there and now start a job in his office, he wasn't terribly engaged in the conversations about moving trucks, etc. He didn't come to see me on a free weekend in March as we had planned. He finally came out to see me in April, two weeks before I was going to return, and he was distant, aggressive, sweaty, drinking too much. Sex was awful. He went back and slept with her one more time and then, a few days before I was leaving to come "home"-- on my way to pick up the uhaul, in fact-- it all hit the fan.

He offered to take a leave from work and fly out to me to do MC. He broke it off with her. But you could just tell he was doing what he thought he should do. He shouldn't have offered to fly out, he should have been on the next plane. He booked a ticket that he later canceled after we had a bad phone call and I yelled at him. Then he said he wanted me to come home, but get a sublet in case R didn't work. Yadda yadda, he broke NC and slept with her one more time and I figured it out (he was a lousy liar in all of this). I then got the ILYB... stuff. So I quit the job in his office, accepted a position at the place I was working the past few months and got a place of my own out here. Told him NC until the business trip I'm currently on is over...

[This message edited by PhantomLimb at 6:49 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)]

BS / D

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 6:55 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

Throughout he has been saying that she is not someone he would have dated even if he were single. That they agreed they were "mutually using each other" (lovely). That is has no long term potential because they don't really share any interests and in casual convo she is "boring". That he viewed being with her as a form of punishing himself. I don't know how much of that was for my benefit or denial. He does admit he cares for her and her daughter.

Even after he had said all of the cruel things that I've posted about elsewhere (not being sorry, ILYBNILWY)... He kept sobbing and repeating "I'm not replacing you with her" and that he didn't intend for his not wanting to work on R with me "right now" as a "rejection" (huh?)... It was just that he knows that he can't stop lying to me and can't stop this spiral he seems to be on and he didn't want me to be responsible for "saving" him. Is it all bs? I dunno.

He also said at some point that he might consider dating her formally "6 months from now"... But then he also said he hadn't talked to her in 5+ days at that point and so maybe he would just maintain NC.

Can you see why 180 was easy for me? He was ALL OVER the map. I took myself out of the equation. I didn't want to be their topic of their conversations anymore.

[This message edited by PhantomLimb at 7:01 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)]

BS / D

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 7:13 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

... Oh, and there was the fight we had because I expressed concern he was spending too much time with her little girl and that it could be damaging and confusing given that the family was going through a divorce. He then went to her and told her I said that and the next time we talked he was all proud of himself telling me that he wasn't a bad person because she said the little girl was fine. I hit the roof and explained to him that it was not appropriate to communicate our private conversations to people outside of our relationship-- particularly given that she was soon to be my colleague as well. I remember telling him that I was going to be mortified working with her now because I essentially accused her of being a bad mother.

He just looked me me like a deer in headlights.

BS / D

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013
Member # 39036
Default  Posted: 7:21 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)


I've read some of your posts and a lot of your story rings true for me. My WS was cold and distant during his A too. Lots of red flags I didn't pick up on. No remorse. He went back to sleep with her one last time too. I guess a lot of these Waywards follow the same blueprint from the WS handbook. Everyone was blindsided by this. He didn't just turn on me, but my whole family too. Even the dogs. And our first dog was like our first born. They were BFFs and his precious buddy, but now it's like he's turned on all of us. Every now and then we would see a bright spot but he's never really come back and my being here and his knowing I'm here in this house with the baby and dogs is like he put a pause button on his former life. This is part of the reason I need to get away from him and this house.

I wish I had your balls of Steele. I know mine are in here somewhere. I love my baby and wouldn't trade having him for the world, in fact my DS has kept me sane through all this. But I've said repeatedly that if I didn't have DS that I would have turned around and walked away since day 1.

Keep doing what you are doing. In fact, I hope you rub some off on me. I've never been good at breakups....and I've always been the one to hang on too long. This one is a real doozy. I'm glad I'm only 35 though...and attractive/smart/fun. You should see the OW. She looks like a prostitute... The crack head kind...not even pretty woman. I know in my heart I'll have the last laugh.

Me: BS 36
Him: WS 37
14 month old DS
Married 5 years, together 8, DIVORCING!!! (taking forever)
DDay: 3/1/13 (4 Month PA while I was pregnant)
Sometimes all you have to do is forget what you feel and remember what you deserve.

Posts: 374 | Registered: Apr 2013
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 8:12 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

You know, it's funny. That he left our dog was one of the only things that got me truly truly angry. I don't know why exactly, but I think it's because she was like our baby and he was so devoted to her (she is a rescue with many special needs, so she required a lot of love and care). My IC says its because we rescued her the way I "rescued" him (he came into the relationship with major, major FOO) but, unlike the dog, love and patience wasn't enough to rehabilitate him and keep him from acting out his PD.

To this day he still has her picture (the dog's) as his FB profile.

For her part, she peed on him three times the last time he came to see us. She never does that. I gave her extra bacon after DDay because I think she was trying to tell me something!

Thank you for saying that I'm an inspiration of some kind! I feel so far from it, but that makes me feel stronger!

BS / D

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013
Member # 35229
Default  Posted: 9:25 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

You're not the only one who missed obvious red flags.

He has been watching redhead specific porn for years.

He too was cold and distant for many years.

I smelled another woman in his groin more times than I care to remember.

He told me OWUmpteen was a fucked up little bunny with her BF, a married guy and another guy all on the hook at the same time. I asked why she would tell her boss' boss these things. Good god.

It was all in my head, apparently.

In False R I was out buying clothes and he kept suggesting weird buttoned-up-to-the-collar tops that were see-through - I have always been a v-neck girl. See through daywear makes me want to vomit. When I found out he was with OWUmpteen I realised she wears these clothes, she dyes her hair red, she started working with him just after our first child was born.

She was not the only OW nor was she the first. She's just the one broken enough to have repeated it and tolerated his fucked-up ness.

I feel sick when I think of all of it. It makes me so mad and sad. So very unnecessary. I didn't deserve any of it. I was his wife, the mother of his children, I was supportive and loving.

But then I remember I was supposed to trust him. None of this is about me.

He didn't really fool me - he isn't that smart. I participated and gaslighted the fuck out of myself. He used my love and trust against me - it is what manipulators do.

That I let him is my brokenness which I need to deal with.

[This message edited by StrongButBroken at 12:16 AM, July 10th (Wednesday)]

I may have reached a point where I'd piss on him if he was on fire.... eventually!!

Posts: 5609 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Australia
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 11:49 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

Reading all of our stories together like this really makes me hate these guys. Who do they think they are? Just ew!

I think I totally gaslighted myself, too. I mean, I must have. I'm only just getting to that in IC.

But I'm also realizing through SI (particularly in reading the WS forum) that I may have unwittingly set up some of my own demise. WS was a guy's guy and didn't do emotions. If I didn't like his tone of voice I was being emotional and not rational. If I was having a problem with a girlfriend, he would listen but never offer any advice. So over the years I learned to just skip it when it came to that stuff. I relied on my best friends (one of them, yes, an ex I split up with in college-- but it was always platonic). And I stopped confronting him when he said stuff sarcastically or in a "tone". I accepted that was just the way he talked and he didn't mean anything by it. Given this, I really shouldn't be surprised that he raged at me the way he did during the breakup. Over time I taught him he could say whatever the hell he wanted to me. He had just never been vicious before.

So, I need to learn to follow through on something if it bothers me. The first time he ignored my feelings and wasn't man enough to apologize and be accountable-- even if it was for something as seemingly minor as a hurtful "tone"-- I probably should have pushed that to see what his character really was.

Side note: the reason he was getting in trouble at work this year was because he was talking to female colleagues in the same way. Two of them reported him within 12 mos. One now won't even show up for scheduled meetings with him. OW was the only one who rolled with his way of interacting with people. He said he liked her because she was sarcastic like him.

I'm really going to have to look back to figure out for myself whether sarcastic and witty was a code in our relationship for emotionally shallow, conflict avoidant and mean spirited.

BS / D

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013
Topic Posts: 60