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User Topic: affairing down? is it always the case?
Alyssamd24
Member
Member # 39005
Default  Posted: 6:10 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

I read a post in the Just Found Out Forum the other day and haven't been able to stop thinking about it. Much of it hit a nerve with me because not only am I the WS I am also the OW....something I haven't really focused on until now.

Many of the characteristics described unfortunately fit me well....these are some of the things I am working on.

But the term affairing down has stuck with me..the OP is a woman, so her examples talk about the characteristics of the OW and not of the OM.

My question is do both men and women affair down or is it more common for one gender to do it? I am interested to see what others think about this!


"I need to be redeemed to the one I've sinned against because he's all I ever knew of love"

Posts: 743 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Massachusetts
aesir
Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 6:24 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

Standard BH disclaimer here.

That is about the third or fourth iteration of that long running motivational thread I have seen here. The older versions were more clear about the character implications when someone is willing to be an AP, and that it does not matter how successful, good looking, kind, attentive, brilliant, the AP is, or even if they glow in the dark and their farts produce rainbows, there is a serious character flaw.

One brilliant member of this forum once explained about not really liking her AP, and described it something like this. When you are married and decide to have an affair, unless you can keep your marriage a secret, your dating pool is severely limited, and everyone in it has proven they are in some way defective if they are willing to get involved with a married person.

I suppose if this is really a step down depends a lot on your spouse. If you are married to a child abusing serial killer, then it probably isn't a step down.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
Alyssamd24
Member
Member # 39005
Default  Posted: 6:32 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

I realize that anyone who is willing to become involved with someone who is married is considered a step down....but what I meant was all the other attributes....education,career,personality traits, etc.

I am curious to see if there is a difference in the genders


"I need to be redeemed to the one I've sinned against because he's all I ever knew of love"

Posts: 743 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Massachusetts
authenticnow
Moderator
Member # 16024
Default  Posted: 6:34 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

H and I are madhatters.

We both affaired down in the ways you mention.

I don't think gender has anything to do with it.


Take up your space (and do it well).

"That's the thing about pain, it demands to be felt."


Posts: 36635 | Registered: Sep 2007
aesir
Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 6:48 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

IMNSHO you are looking at superficial things.

There are at least 5 people reported to have had affairs with Princess Di. I really doubt you will find someone here who approves of their choice.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
Alyssamd24
Member
Member # 39005
Default  Posted: 6:50 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

Lol. Just a simple question


"I need to be redeemed to the one I've sinned against because he's all I ever knew of love"

Posts: 743 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Massachusetts
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 6:51 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

anyone who is willing to become involved with someone who is married is considered a step down
If this ^^^^ is the case...

but what I meant was all the other attributes....education,career,personality traits, etc.
Then what the crap does all this ^^^^^ matter?

My AP was a college graduate, works in IT, owns a music studio, is a polished singer/musician, has soft hands, and dresses in a suit every day. Yeah....so?

My husband managed to graduate from high school and earned a degree from the School of Hard Knocks. He is a self employed blue collar Dude. His hands are calloused. All he has known his whole life is hard, physical labor. He rarely wears a suit, even on a Sunday.

I still affaired down. None of the "details" matter. My AP knew I was married. He still chose to cheat with me on our spouses. I don't care if the guy is a freaking rocket scientist. He's still broken.

There is no gender difference. Any person that will choose to have an affair always affairs down. Period.

ETA: I don't think any of this is "lol".

[This message edited by Aubrie84 at 6:53 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)]


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6058 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
momdaughterwife
Member
Member # 32209
Default  Posted: 6:56 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

BS here. JMHO- but yes it's always the case in the ways that matter to me. I will admit that to cope with it I must believe that myself. I can't imagine it's a gender thing. Affairs are all different yet the same in so many ways. KWIM? I suppose in rare cases where the AP didn't know the WS was married- there could be a BS who doesn't see the AP as a step down. Maybe.


Me BS
Him WH
2 boys
We've all been through a lot. Our family seems to be thriving again. I pray that will continue.

Posts: 825 | Registered: May 2011
Alyssamd24
Member
Member # 39005
Default  Posted: 7:07 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

Look I was just asking a question. I'm not trying to piss anyone off or insult anyone. I was curious that's all.


"I need to be redeemed to the one I've sinned against because he's all I ever knew of love"

Posts: 743 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Massachusetts
20WrongsVs1
Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 7:09 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

Am I wrong, or does the term "affair down" compare the BS to the AP? I've always assumed so, and yeah, in that case it is a resounding yes.

The other characteristics of my APs have been a source of consternation for my BH, because one's rich and the other is a musician. But what does it matter? When they signed up on Ashley Madison, they became scumbags. They aren't honorable men who put their families first, like my BH.

"If they're not better than me...why?" BH asks. Because the fault was within me, not you, only me.

Yes I affaired down. Absolutely.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1045 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
Alyssamd24
Member
Member # 39005
Default  Posted: 7:11 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

Twenty;

Silly question...What is Ashley Madison?


"I need to be redeemed to the one I've sinned against because he's all I ever knew of love"

Posts: 743 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Massachusetts
cs2384
Member
Member # 34873
Default  Posted: 7:12 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

I really struggle with reading the other forums on this board and the OW bashing, because I AM that person. Or at least I was. Not sure how to shake that label. I know to some woman out there I'll always be the OW.

But yes, we do always affair down. My AP was a doctor and well educated. He drives BMW's and paid for all sorts of things. But I affaired down. My marriage had MAJOR issues. I dealt with it in almost the worst way possible. I affaired down because my husband has never had an affair on me. The AP's BW can't say that(neither can my husband for that matter :( ). I was at least his second OW. There were probably more. My husband has stuck by me through all the garbage I put him through. The AP high tailed it out of there when things got rough(thank heaven). So degrees, money, looks. It doesn't mean much. I later found out through a mutual friend that AP got his credentialing taken away so he can't practice medicine for a while. So yeah. I'm pretty sure my husband is the winner on all accounts.


WW--me 28
BH--32
Married ten years
Two daughters 7 and 8
In recovery

Posts: 86 | Registered: Feb 2012
heartbroken0903
Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 7:31 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

About the superficial things: no, not always the case.

About the character issues: almost always the case.

As others have pointed out, in a perfect world, the character of a person should always supersede those other "superficial" aspects of one's makeup. And yeah, I agree, it should. But this is an imperfect world, and things such as looks, education, intelligence, money, status, athleticism, etc. are important to people---to some people, they are more important (or seem to be) than one's character.

I used to be one such person. I paid a lot of attention to the "outside"---my looks, my intelligence, where I went to college, how much material stuff I can acquire---I didn't really pay much mind to the person I was inside. I regret that now.


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciling after divorce

"Someday you'll look back on all these days
And all this pain is gonna be invisible." - Hunter Hayes, "Invisible"


Posts: 2079 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
Deeply Scared
Administrator
Member # 2
Default  Posted: 7:33 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

Look I was just asking a question. I'm not trying to piss anyone off or insult anyone. I was curious that's all.

I'm not sure where you're reading that anyone is mad or insulted...people are replying to your topic and sharing their thoughts


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 196510 | Registered: May 2002
JustDesserts
Member
Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 7:54 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

Guilty. Big time.

My BS is the picture of integrity, heart, love, selflessness, caring, empathetic, hardworking, successful, unpretentious, loyal, loving, grounded, smart, funny, witty, sexy and sweet. And that's just the inside. Her exterior is beauty personified...glowing, radiant, graceful, and a turner of heads. From the time she graduated college until the day we met, there wasn't a single guy she dated who did not ask her to marry him. My BS is class and grace personified.

My xAP is a mediocre human at best. I'm ashamed to admit the qualities I projected onto her in order to convince myself she was some sort of special princess. Like me, she needed and craved external validation due to HATING what she saw in the mirror every day. She is a broken, damaged liar, as am I, and also capable of astonishingly cruel and hurtful behavior, as am I.

I affaired down. And if truth be told, I guess my BS can say she "husbanded down" when she married me. At least the me that did what I did. The me that somehow lost sight of how damn lucky a man I am. Yup, I affaired down. And anyone who would deem me affair worthy has already affaired down themselves.

It takes two to affair down. Two sad, broken people.


2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
badchoice
Member
Member # 35566
Default  Posted: 7:59 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

It takes two to affair down. Two sad, broken people.

Well said. Sometimes when I see or read these threads I forget that I too am the AP to some BH out there.


Me: fWH/BH 46

Separated transitioning to D


Posts: 725 | Registered: May 2012 | From: L.A.
20WrongsVs1
Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 8:05 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

Alyssa, AM is a dating site for married cheaters. Seriously. That is how I met my APs.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1045 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
Bobbi_sue
Member
Member # 10347
Default  Posted: 8:32 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

I feel this is "true" when one defines affairing down as the negative characteristics that lead them to cheat and is often viewed as "true" for situations where reconciliation takes place in the M.

I am one that does not blatantly and flatly agree that "they always affair down" because I do think that sometimes people are thinking of those external characteristics, looks and accomplishments, etc. But Aesir made a point with his extreme example:

I suppose if this is really a step down depends a lot on your spouse. If you are married to a child abusing serial killer, then it probably isn't a step down.

IMO it does not have to be that extreme. I feel that drug abusers, alcoholics, lazy jobless (by choice)leeches and many other people can be just as bad as the type of person who cheats, and all those characteristics would be deal breakers for me in M. Because the BS might have all these bad characteristics is NOT a reason for someone to cheat on them, but it can be a valid reason for their spouse to want to end the marriage, and in such situations it would be a far better choice to divorce that person instead of cheat on them.

But my real point is that people have faults and I don't categorically place all cheaters below all other people, no matter what their faults might be.

So even though in my case, I actually feel that both my H's affaired down in every imaginable way, I think every case is individual and will not make a blanket statement that they "always" Affair down.

[This message edited by Bobbi_sue at 8:42 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 5683 | Registered: Apr 2006
aesir
Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 8:43 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

Well I just picked an example that everyone could agree on that I don't think would apply to any members here (though I may be wrong, the site is anonymous). Exactly where that line is for each person I will not begin to speculate.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
broken81
Member
Member # 36774
Default  Posted: 9:03 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

My WH affaired down on ALL levels.
But on the flip side HIS AP affaired down in that MY WH didnt give a rats ass about her. Never cared, gave her a thing, she truley was nothing.
She had someone at home that LOVED her.
In all superficial ways MY WH would beat her BH.
Younger, handsome, better job, more money, nicer house, etc but none of that really matters in a relationship...you want someone that loves you not to be used and thrown to the side.
No matter how they affair down its still affair down on both sides.


Me BS
him fWS
M 8yrs 2 kids
DD 2/12 lies until 4/12
2.5 yr A with an OLD married whore
working on R

Posts: 232 | Registered: Sep 2012
sailorgirl
Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 9:08 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

I feel that drug abusers, alcoholics, lazy jobless leeches and many other people can be just as bad as the type of person who cheats

I would agree that a BS could be many kinds of messed up. A BS could be abusive or NPD or a criminal. But, a BS who is here on SI doing their best to understand their spouse and their marriage, trying to figure out what to do next, and helping other BS's along the way . . . that person is very unlikely to be more messed up than their spouse's AP.

WH's AP is a damaged soul, and not in a lovely damsel in distress way. Her fear of abandonment causes her to threaten suicide to make men stay. She desperately demands sex, but then just lies there like a sack of potatoes, unable to enjoy it at all. She is incapable of a healthy relationship of any kind. It's actually really sad.

So, WH had an emotionally healthy, honest, loyal, sexy, loving woman at home, yet he had an affair with a train wreck. Maybe that's an extreme case, but I would say that the vast majority of BS's on SI are dealing with the same thing to some degree.

[This message edited by sailorgirl at 10:32 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)]


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
Mrs Panda
Member
Member # 27303
Default  Posted: 9:19 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

Alyssamd

Why does the gender issue matter to you? I assume because you are comparing yourself and your situation, and hoping it's not you.

It is horrible to read something that makes you feel dirty and low, when you are already feeling that way. When maybe those same self-esteem issues are part of the weakness that led to cheating.

But becoming better and beautiful on the inside (and therefore the outside) is what it's all about.

My personal theory is that most cheaters never get it. I think it's rare. Because it's just too fucking hard to face yourself. I see blameshifting and behavioral disorders every day in the workplace. Most people are who they are. Real change is rare.

So I assume my APs never "get it." I saw OM1 5 years ago (around the time of my second A). He's still fucked up, single, KISA type with a touch of NPD. Gross. OM2 was an emotionally unavailable seriel OM who was almost convicted of felony assault (guess what, "defending" himself from a BH) years ago. Both are successful professional with 8 years of post-graduate education. Both were guys that all the girls swooned over.

What-evah.

It is important to learn from the past. To fuse that little bit of darkness with the goodness.


Me-41 FWW Him-45BH
M 13years. Reconciled.
DDay#1 Nov 2008 (OM2)
DDay#2 Aug 2009 (Confessed to OM 2001)
"Those who believe in telekinetics, raise my hand." -Kurt Vonnegut

Posts: 1971 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: The SouthEast
FeelingSoMuch
Member
Member # 38814
Default  Posted: 9:41 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

I feel that my WW affaired down. The OM is physically ugly and had a live-in girlfriend that my WW knew about.

The OM's BG probably thinks that he affaired down, too. He was sleeping with a woman who cared so little about her family that she brought him to our home.

I think that when they A up they don't come back. That's why most seem to come back. My WW did and we are attempting R. Good luck to us after that mess.

Good luck to you, too.


Me: BH
Her: WW
Together since 2001, married since 2007.
D-day: Feb. 20, 2013.
Broke NC: 2 phone calls since
Today: In MC and IC, attempting R.
It got easier: They no longer work together.

Posts: 506 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Canada
Unagie
Member
Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 10:16 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

I think that when they A up they don't come back.

I don't think there is such a thing as affairing up. When you have an affair you are committing an atrocious act as a broken person with another broken person. There is no up, it just varies when if ever that hits people.


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

Do not let others be your reference for who you see in the mirror.

Stop allowing people to hurt you, because you don't love you enough to walk away.


Posts: 2639 | Registered: Oct 2012
RightTrack
Member
Member # 36976
Default  Posted: 11:09 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

I agree with this, there's no "affairing up". If, in that imaginary situation, the WS stumbled upon his/her soulmate and the heavens opened up and the angels sang, then any decent soulmate would wait until WS was divorced before carrying on. Anyone willing to participate in the lies, deception, ignoring their kids, forgetting to use protection, etc. is a very sorry soul.

Posts: 607 | Registered: Sep 2012
Alyssamd24
Member
Member # 39005
Default  Posted: 11:36 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)

Thank you for all your responses.

Mrs Panda, I don't know why the gender issue is so important to me....I think I was just interested to see if there was really a difference...and to see what other people thought. And yes I was also comparing myself as well.

In my role as the OW my AP affaired down. Like some others have said, my AP appeared to have it all-he was the attractive, well dressed business man type who had two master degrees and made good money...but underneath that was an unhappy, selfish, self conscious man who hid behind his physical illness and was a coward


"I need to be redeemed to the one I've sinned against because he's all I ever knew of love"

Posts: 743 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Massachusetts
sri624
Member
Member # 33956
Default  Posted: 12:00 AM, July 10th (Wednesday)

BS here....i struggle with this because my husand's affair partners were trash...i mean really. the kind of women that you would not even look at twice walking down the street. one was a stripper turned popular yoga instructor, and the other was a therapist...who honestly is probably one of the ugliest women i have seen. and this is so disgusting to me...but in mc, my husband told me that cheated with women who he knew had low self esteem, who werent that pretty, and who could be easily manipulated but just paying them a little attention...someone he knew would be "okay" with him being married and still want to sleep with him. he said they stuck out like a sore thumb, and being the broken man that he was...he took advantage of them.

what a horrible thing to do on all sides.

so, yes, i think that man or woman...when you decide to sleep with someone who is married, by definition the man/woman you are sleeping with is affairing down.


BS (41):(Former Doormat)
WS (39):(Busted Cheater)
Married: 10 years, 3 kids under 5
DD1: 10/11 PA/EA with pilates instructor/former stripper.
DD2: 10/12 False r, cheating with other women, online dating,Substance abuse issues.
Attempting R in bi

Posts: 916 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: Alabama
Kiwigirl
Member
Member # 36185
Default  Posted: 12:10 AM, July 10th (Wednesday)

I often wonder this about my WH's AP. on external characteristics she is a lot better than me (she's young single, hasn't got 4 children - why wouldn't she look better?!!) and she is a successful professional. That really killed me when I first found out.

But the more time I've had to think about it and get some perspective, I've realised there must have been something really broken and desperate to have accepted what she was offered. I don't know her so I guess I will never get to understand why/ what was wrong with her to make her disrespect herself that much. Ultimately, on some levels I feel sorry for her because I can't imagine that how it has played out for the three of us has done anything but damage her further.

So yeah, I agree mostly with what is said about always affairing down.


BS - 36 (me)
WH - 34

D-Day 19 April 2012
Trying R


Posts: 118 | Registered: Jul 2012
dmari
Member
Member # 37215
Default  Posted: 1:53 AM, July 10th (Wednesday)

I have never responded to a post in Wayward Side but I do read what is written. I just wanted to thank you for all your honest answers to Alyssamd24's question. I know it must have been difficult to admit it and I think it takes tremendous courage to admit it and work on yourself. I used to pray that my stbx would have that kind of strength, insight, courage and humility. Thank you!


Me (BS): 42 Children: DD 18, DS 15
Settled at mediation
Officially divorced ... SOON!

Posts: 2117 | Registered: Oct 2012
Trying33
Member
Member # 38815
Default  Posted: 2:21 AM, July 10th (Wednesday)

Interesting topic.

I affaired down in many ways.

What this thread made me think of is AP was filling voids that I wasn't getting at home. In my mind I was spending time with someone who understood me and "got" me. At the time, I thought I'd found someone "better".

It's so fucked up. My H hasn't had an affair. It's a simple as that.


Posts: 361 | Registered: Mar 2013
Vulcanized
Member
Member # 33523
Default  Posted: 3:04 AM, July 10th (Wednesday)

As WS: My AP was def a step down. Younger, very handsome, but ... knowingly sleeping w/a MW, who was obviously TOTALLY fucked up mentally/emotionally. The whole thing was a monument of dysfunction, until I finally freed myself from it. OM immediately hooked up w/another MW, destroyed that M & M'd her less than a year after their A started. So ... obviously, OM is no prize.

I got into that A out of a desire for R and b/c I was so out of my mind. I was broken beyond repair, at that point.

As BS: I don't know XH's main OW, but from what I've heard, she's incredibly nasty. I can't help but think she has to be enormously damaged that she waited 4+ years for me to find out, leave XH & finally D him. As far as I know, they are still NOT M'd, nor engaged. So now, she's invested almost 5 years in XH. I'm wondering if she knows about O OW?


Me: MH 40s; Him: MH 40s (I had RA)
OW: 30s, moron; one of many
M: 8 yrs
3/13: D'd
-----------------------------------------------------------
Everything is as it should be.

Posts: 730 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Vulcania
PhantomLimb
Member
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 4:25 AM, July 10th (Wednesday)

I think my WS did, but I don't know that he does.

I only saw her once and I don't think she was as pretty as me, but not that the physical part is all that important (but it did help me protect my ego a little to know that after DDay),

His brother and I kept trying to explain to him that she wasn't a stable and "good" person given her brokenness, her willingness to have the A, what she was exposing her child to. He kept saying he didn't see why we thought so poorly of her because, after all, she apologized if she played any role in our breakup (aw, how sweet!) and she said she thought he deserved to be happy. And she was easier to talk to than me because I would get all emotional and tell him either explicitly or implicitly he was a bad person in the first few days after DDay.

This really hurts and might be TMI, but he also told me their relationship was more sexually satisfying because she liked it rough (hair pulling and whatnot). He never ever told me he was into that. He tried to implement it in the one time we we together before DDay and it was miserable. I hate that that is my last memory of him in our intimate life together. It was all about him... He was sweaty and aggressive. If that's what she likes, she can have it. I'll pass.

He told me before I knew about the A that she was in the middle of a D with an abusive husband. It's almost like she taught him how to be that guy in and out if the bedroom because that's what she's attracted to. The sad part is that I didn't know that deep down he was capable of evn being that guy. So as far as I'm concerned, in this respect, they can have each other.


BS / D

Posts: 863 | Registered: Jun 2013
ifinallyfoundme
Member
Member # 39523
Default  Posted: 6:05 AM, July 10th (Wednesday)

my husband told me that cheated with women who he knew had low self esteem, who werent that pretty, and who could be easily manipulated but just paying them a little attention...someone he knew would be "okay" with him being married and still want to sleep with him. he said they stuck out like a sore thumb, and being the broken man that he was...he took advantage of them.
what a horrible thing to do on all sides.

so, yes, i think that man or woman...when you decide to sleep with someone who is married, by definition the man/woman you are sleeping with is affairing down.

My WH said the same thing. He was not interested in a AP whom he felt was an equal or had her stuff together. He wanted to be treated like a king and call all of the shots while they changed their lives to fit his schedule.
Affairing down on both sides.


Posts: 180 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: United States
SI Staff
Moderator
Member # 10
Red  Posted: 7:42 AM, July 10th (Wednesday)

A general reminder to all BS's,

This thread is not an open invitation to vent about the OP. It's a legitimate question being asked, so please, no venting.

Thank you.


Posts: 10000 | Registered: May 2002
HormonalWoman
Member
Member # 29265
Default  Posted: 8:00 AM, July 10th (Wednesday)

I just read an article about this interestingly.

It stated most women want to affair up and most men down. In terms of class.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2359342/Women-thinking-having-affair-dream-upper-class-man-men-choose-working-class-women-according-research-Ashley-Madison.html


Together 13 yrs
BW - Me
WH - Him
3 Children
DD 20th June 2010 actual affair was early 2008 for roughly 10 wks.

Posts: 242 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: UK
unfound
Member
Member # 12802
Default  Posted: 8:41 AM, July 10th (Wednesday)

SI has a great representation of both bs and ws, and I don't think I've seen a noticeable difference in gender as far as affairing down/up in the way you were asking.

...all the other attributes....education,career,personality traits, etc.

like others have said, those are surface things, and affairs aren't rooted in the surface of someone. now, I'm sure there are people (men and women alike) that seek out or are drawn to those surface things in an ap...but that's just another layer added onto the brokenness of someone who is willing to have an affair in the first place. ultimately, it has nothing to do with the ap (externally or internally), but what lies within the ws themselves.


ka-mai
*******************
From time to time, I do consider that I might be mad. Like any self-respecting lunatic, however, I am always quick to dismiss any doubts about my sanity. DK

Posts: 14823 | Registered: Nov 2006 | From: mercury's underboob
numb&dumb
Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 8:47 AM, July 10th (Wednesday)

BH here.

In my case, in every category, my W A'd down. It had nothing to do with the specific person, it could have been anybody.

It was her own issues combined with opportunity and a willingness on the OP part to take advantage of a situation that made it happen. My W has worked very hard to show me that this had nothing to with what I have or didn't have. It was ugly at times. It was her own issues that she is working very hard on fixing. That is ugly too. OP doesn't and shouldn't matter anymore. Does it really matter who they were ? It still hurts regardless of the details.

Be careful with this line of thought though. This is a sword that cuts both ways for a BS that has not healed as much as I have. There is no good answer for them.

If the AP was better in terms of looks, money, career, etc. That is a severe blow to a BS. The BS feels like second choice and that they could never measure up. Only self esteem rehabilitation has any chance of making this any better. It is a very hard road for a BS to make their peace with something like this. IC for a BS, is a must. This fact can be helped in some cases were the OP throws the WS under the bus. However self esteem repair is still a must.

Or

If the AP was lacking in those terms, the BS can surmise that our WS threw away the M for that ? Did the M mean that little to them ? The path forward is easier for me to understand. See my explanation above.


In other words ANY comparison between BS and AP leads to a whole lot of pain. This also opens the door to a comparisons of the who a BS thought the WS was versus who they have proven themselves to be. It is harder for me and my W to get past that last one. Comparisons, while inevitable, are just plain hurtful.

By owning the choices made, showing the BS consistently that you will do everything you can to help them heal (Doing this without being asked goes a long way) and rebuild trust to the point that they can "believe," that you "choose," them everyday and you deeply regret the choices that are made.

[This message edited by numb&dumb at 8:49 AM, July 10th (Wednesday)]


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2542 | Registered: May 2010
Ceili
New Member
Member # 39763
Default  Posted: 8:56 AM, July 10th (Wednesday)

On paper OP wad "affairing up". He is better educated, white collar, thinner/more attractive. But in reality he is kind of sleazy and takes advantage of vulnerable women.

Posts: 19 | Registered: Jul 2013
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 9:18 AM, July 10th (Wednesday)

When you have an affair you are committing an atrocious act as a broken person with another broken person

You just described my marriage. I don't think it's up or down. It's just there. Sadly, so are some marriages. I find it interesting to focus on the OP looks, intellect, socio-economic status like it's an anomaly. Some marriages on this site are affairages. That means the BS was someone's OW or OM.

I've said it's a pretty limited pool in quality when you're married and you're honest about it while trolling. Not a great selection to pick from that show up to that casting call. There is quantity, for sure. Just not quality. From what I've heard the dating pool in general isn't exactly teaming either.

It's pretty common to solve problems with people. They're like Prozac, drugs, material things all rolled up in one. They're animated feel goods to take when filling holes, running from problems, seeking "safe" havens, providing thrills. If you peek in NB you can even see some of that there from folks that have been through a few rodeos. Ignoring the red flags just a blowing. Waiting to see if it gets better.  That works so very well because somehow being with someone, even if that person is horrible for you, is worse than being alone, for some :(.

If some are honest, some OP's act like the dating phase. Always on the best behavior. Always "on". Always there. That's where the strokes come from. Trying to impress like an interview. Sound familiar? I read that on so many posts. Yeah, well, they don't know how bad he smells, how gross he is, how whiny and insecure she is, how crazy she gets. Yeah, well, "you" didn't either, apparently. So, no loss, right? Doesn't sound like they're getting a real prize, so why so sad, angry, hurt? What are you really losing?

Maybe it's about rejection a lot more than it is anything else, for many. Maybe that's why this shit is somehow different than any other betrayal that also sadly happens in so very many marriages daily. Because its outsourcing which hits so very very close to home in vulnerable spots we don't even want to think about.

I may have been on here just a wee bit too long because I find myself reading posts and seeing so many tsunami warning buoys pinging I wonder when "we'll" find an old member becoming a new poster in this forum...or never owning it.



Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
wert
Member
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 9:26 AM, July 10th (Wednesday)

BH here -

From my point of view I don't think it matters. I know who I am and I know what I want. I challenge my W do know the same things and have the courage to share them with me.

IMO you seek the wrong questions to your puzzle. When we look at the differences in others we don't focus on the person that matters - ourselves. How did you allow yourself to have the A? The OP's qualities are part of attraction or opportunity but not of substance. I am attracted to all sort of people for various reasons, however I don't seek relationships with them that are inappropriate because I have committed to my W.

I was thinking about this the other day. My W is not unique in the world, but you know what is, the fact that I chose her. And that does matter - a lot.

take care...

take care...



Posts: 1415 | Registered: Jan 2012
hardlessons
Member
Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 9:51 AM, July 10th (Wednesday)

wert nailed it.

Up or down is just a way for us to lay down some judgement. Feed our sense of entitlement or our insecurities. It is a unhealthy way for us to try to make sense of what we did or what happened to us.


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 880 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
JustDesserts
Member
Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 9:56 AM, July 10th (Wednesday)

Thanks to the BS's for weighing in here. I can only imagine how it makes my BS feel to hear me say "Yes, I affaired down. In every possible way. With a broken, sad, lying, cheating xAP. Oh, and by the way, I am also a broken, sad, lying, and cheating husband."

My BW must wonder "Great, glad to hear that. And it's SOOOO nice to know that for more than two years you chose this limited, broken, cheating liar of an xAP over me, and your family."

If there is an explanation or excuse that is valid in terms of replying to how a BS must feel about their spouse "Affairing Down", I haven't seen it yet. It becomes more apparent every day how sad, damaged and broken I am...and how much I want to change that ugly truth.


2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 10:09 AM, July 10th (Wednesday)

In general I agree with the notion that having an A speaks to flaws in both the WS and the AP. As a BS, I believe that after Dday in many cases the blow to a BS's self esteem can be so hard that tearing down the AP or comparing is a kneejerk but normal reaction. Many BS's are conflicted, upset, confused and want to lash out and instead of focusing on our WS or ourselves, we focus on the 3rd party, the AP. It took awhile but I eventually got to a point where I realized that the AP was irrelevant and I focused on my WW. Whether she A'd down or up no longer mattered. What mattered was whether she had the ability to do the work to resolve her issues. When I realized she couldn't I finally started focusing on me and I filed. I don't consider myself any better or worse than my STBXW. I didn't have an A but I had work to do on myself, codep and FOO stuff. I healed and moved on from all of it and the only difference between me and her was I had the courage to work through and change things about myself that I wasn't happy with.

I agree with Wert. At the end of the day whether someone A's down isn't as important as digging into the reason someone has an A in the first place.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 10:12 AM, July 10th (Wednesday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
D hopefully official in 7/2014

Posts: 1834 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
Hunter23
Member
Member # 37574
Default  Posted: 11:47 AM, July 10th (Wednesday)

BS here...

First off, I have to say I'm really impressed by the WS's on here.

My AP was a college graduate, works in IT, owns a music studio, is a polished singer/musician, has soft hands, and dresses in a suit every day. Yeah....so?

My husband managed to graduate from high school and earned a degree from the School of Hard Knocks. He is a self employed blue collar Dude. His hands are calloused. All he has known his whole life is hard, physical labor. He rarely wears a suit, even on a Sunday.

I still affaired down. None of the "details" matter. My AP knew I was married. He still chose to cheat with me on our spouses. I don't care if the guy is a freaking rocket scientist. He's still broken.

There is no gender difference. Any person that will choose to have an affair always affairs down. Period.

This is how I'm trying to look at it. Rather than obsessing over how much thinner/prettier/bigger breasted/better educated OW was (although I have to point out she's thinner than me- and that's the only thing... ) I'm trying to focus on the fact that it happened and it makes no difference WHO the AP was.Easier said then done, of course.

As many of you have said on here, in much better ways then me - both parties have something broken, or missing.


Me: BW, 38
Him:WH, 40
DDay: Nov 3, 2012
Hoping to recover...

Posts: 99 | Registered: Nov 2012
Topic Posts: 44