SurvivingInfidelity.com Forums
Just Found Out
User Topic: His emotional affair. First post.
lamplighter
New Member
Member # 39795
Default  Posted: 12:26 PM, July 10th (Wednesday)

I am so sad, lost, and heartbroken. My husband of four years, with whom I have a three year old son, told me he felt done with our marriage.

Prior to this last month, he had been very loving, devoted, showering me with love letters, even a CD of love songs. We've spent time together almost every day. Our relationship has had circular, unproductive fighting in it and both of us have trouble communicating in a way that we hear each other.

Still, when my husband expressed that he had "hit his limit", it felt sudden and out of the blue. He had never expressed a single doubt in the relationship, never seemed the slightest bit interested in giving up, and had never told me he was feeling negatively about us in general. When he said he felt this way, he became totally cold, withdrawn, cruel - a person I didn't know.

It wasn't the frustration he expressed with the relationship that I couldn't understand - it was how absolutely certain he seemed to be that there wasn't hope. At first he said he needed space, and so I wrote him one heartfelt love letter and then bowed out - spent the weekend minding my own business and trying to be as perfect a spouse as possible. At the end of the weekend, he still had made no progress in being ready to talk, so I left to take our son to visit my parents. In the week I was gone, he went from needing space, to saying he had no motivation to work on the relationship, to saying it was doomed, to actually signing a lease for a new apartment.

I was stunned by the haste and immediacy in needing to separate himself from me and could not for the life of me understand it. All the while I'd been pushing for couples counseling and he'd been agreeing to go. It happened so fast.

I rushed home to try to figure out finances (he signed a lease we couldn't afford without even discussing with me where I would live, my son would live, etc) and salvage the marriage. He insisted irritably a half dozen times throughout the course of this that there was no one else. But of course I found her.

Here is what happened:

Early on in the relationship - six months in perhaps - we talked about our boundaries with others. I expressed that I didn't feel comfortable with the maintaining of relationships with people who are old flames and with whom we don't have an active platonic friendship. He said this made sense to him, although I do recall some initial indignance at the concept. Eventually (and without a demand from me) he deleted a few exes from his Facebook, who I guess fit the bill. He told me about it later, but I didn't explicitly ask him to do so.

Cut to 4 years or so later, I notice that he has added one of his exes back on facebook. facebook lovingly informed me on my sidebar. I felt a little strange about it, but didn't say anything for several days. My husband seemed emotionally more distant and more irritable with me. I didn't necessarily connect the two things at the time, but I continued to feel nagging, so I VERY gently initiated a conversation with him about it. I said I'd noticed and was wondering why that happened, reminding him of our past talk about boundaries. He assured me that she had added him, he thought it was no big deal, and really didn't think much of it. He agreed he should have remembered that boundary. It felt like a nice, respectful conversation. It ended at that. I never told him to delete her; it felt good to talk about my feelings without it becoming an argument and my husband seemed to truly understand.

It was only 1-2 weeks later that he checked out.

Finally my son brought me a "receipt" from the floor of the room my husband has been sleeping in. On it was an obsessive sounding love note meant for another woman. I cried about it on the phone to my mom and good friend. They encouraged me to find proof. I took a shot in the dark at his facebook password (it was the same as a shared password of ours). It worked. As I was just getting on there, up pops a message from the same ex he had re-added (and re-deleted) last month.

I copy/pasted their entire correspondence to a document on my computer. Here is just a small bit of how it began (almost INSTANTLY upon the OW adding him on facebook - and initiated by HIM! Names changed by me of course) :

Jane,
Oops. How are you? What have you been up to the last few years? Hope all is well in your world.
*

Hey James,
I'm living in **** again and working at *****. I wasn't sure why you unfriended me, but I thought I'd give it a shot and re-friend request you. How's everything going?

*

Jane,
I'm doing alright. A lot to relay by means of a Facebook message. I have a son ****. He just turned three and is indescribable. I met his mother *** four years ago and she became pregnant three months later. It was very intense and scary but we decided to make a go of it. We got married when baby was 6 months old. I fully committed myself to our relationship and I'm sad to say it's not the healthiest. We recognized some compatibility issues early on that we still struggle with in one way or another. I started seeing a therapist once a month when I realized I was going to be a father because everything was moving so fast. I encouraged my wife to as well but she was not interested. I unfriended you (and one other previous girlfriend) at her general request that I delete old flames. It hurt to delete you but I thought that was all the more reason I should do it. My wife has yet to unfriend her ex-husband, although I have no problem with that because he's a decent guy.
I went into this an optimist and I never fully determined what my limits are. My wife has many wonderful qualities and at the same time seems to communicate that unless I do things a certain way she will never be happy. It's both a mind f*** and an exercise in empathy and giving. For a long time I've thought all this would help me grow and be a better parent but just a few months ago after almost four years of seeing my therapist he recommended I call it quits. Things are complicated by my desire for my son to have a secure home life and not wanting to be apart from him. In the aftermath of a negative feeling my wife has suggested break-up/divorce hundreds of times. This happened just yesterday when she also said she didn't love me. She took it all back by the end of the night but obviously it leaves me feeling…a little hopeless. I take responsibility for my share of our differences but I've never said those words to her. I've agreed three times that we should split and each time things got much nastier very quickly and then eventually sort of blew over. Deep breath...
I realize opening up to you like this may not be the most appropriate thing in the world but it feels good to be open and honest. I haven't talked about this much to anyone and I hope you're not too uncomfortable hearing it. I'm just in an awkward place right now.

So how about you? Have you shared your heart with anyone in the last few years? What are you doing with ** these days? What were you doing and what was that like? You must be a popular girl in **** these days. I don't remember many beautiful unattached women sticking around after college.

I was happy to see your request. Against my better judgement I'm sending you a song I wrote shortly after the last time we saw each other. No one has ever heard it before. I'll warn you it's a little sappy. Hope you and all you love are happy and healthy.
James

(here he attached a love song he had written her apparently long ago)

*

Then came lots of flirting, followed by pretty much "my wife doesn't want me to talk to you. while i find you hot/a million compliments and flirty statements, I need to focus on saving my marriage" . Which of course inspired more flirting and the whole "Oh, I don't want to be the other woman! Giggle giggle" vibe.

He did stop talking to her for a few days at a time but they continued to find excuses to check in over the next week or two, of course leading up to him checking out on me.

He then initiated a consistent correspondence as soon as he chose an apartment and planned to sign a lease. Since then they've written almost ten messages a day back and forth. He further bashes me, tells her he wants to divorce me, tells her he wants to see her and even that she would make an "amazing mother". He tells her about his adventures with our son, forgetting to include that I was there. He tells her tidbits we joked about or talked about that day or evening. I once suggested a personality test in hopes of finding a way to communicate to him. I was pleased when he went and took the test and came to tell me his personality type. Less pleased when I saw that the same night he asked her what HER type was and talked about how interesting the test was.

I confronted him about it. He denied denied denied until I told him exactly what I saw. Then came irrational yelling, telling me I was "sick" for logging into his facebook. He demanded to see the love note. I told him I was keeping it and he lunged at me to take it. When I refused he said "F*** you" during a time when our son was in the room. He lunged at me again, this time making physical contact and when I told him he could not have the love note back, he balled his fists up at me as if threatening to punch me. He has never, ever been violent. I wasn't threatened. But the person I've loved, who has written me the sweetest love letters and most beautiful love songs for years, the last one being days before he started to talking to the other woman, that person is gone. I don't recognize the person I see and my heart is just broken.


*One more note: obviously I don't need to defend myself against the way he described our marriage to the other woman, but I wanted to acknowledge that while there is some truth in things he said about our fights and problems, it's HEAVILY exaggerated and a few parts he straight out made up. As for his therapist suggesting he call it quits, he never ever came to me with any suggestions, talking, communicating or asking for counseling . No therapist would make that suggestion without suggesting lots of other things first so that is probably a lie too.
It's crazy that his talk with her didn't even have a build-up. They had maybe three lines of communication and then he dumped all of that flirting, love songs, and extreme attacking of the marriage to her... like out of the blue. It's so bizarre and so sad.

[This message edited by lamplighter at 4:30 PM, July 11th (Thursday)]


Posts: 29 | Registered: Jul 2013
lieshurt
Member
Member # 14003
Default  Posted: 12:49 PM, July 10th (Wednesday)

Welcome Lamplighter!

What your husband is doing is actually very typical for a cheater. The lies to make you and your marriage look bad are just to gain her sympathy and to get her to stroke his ego. They all do it. I know that isn't too comforting, but at least you know that we know he is full of crap.

Check out the healing library. There is a lot of great information there that will help.

Also, as difficult as it may be, now is the time for you to stand strong. He will try to cake eat. He'll think he can have the "single" life, but also have you on the side to play happy family with. Don't let him. If he wants to leave, then he gets to deal with the consequences...which means no hanging out at your place, no having dinners over, no sleeping over when he feels like it, etc....He needs to feel the loss.

Take care you of. Try to eat, drink plenty of water, excercise, etc....and post here. We'll do as much as we can to help you.

(((hugs)))


I'm sorry if you don't like my Honesty, but to be fair I don't like your lies.

Sometimes it's better to push someone away...not because you stopped loving them but because you can't take the pain anymore.


Posts: 13726 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Houston
wanttogoforward
Member
Member # 29912
Default  Posted: 1:03 PM, July 10th (Wednesday)

Lamp,
Welcome... we are here to support you through this hard time....

Yes, he is clearly having an EA, maybe more, and you should believe there is more..... if it hasn't turned physical it will soon. He is doing what a typical cheater does... he is rewriting the M events, and selectively giving information to the ow to make himself look good and as if he is the good guy trying to hold a M together in the face of a horrible wife... I have seen these types of emails before... those in my own Marriage when my H had his last EA... they are very painful to see and read.... In our case he told her our M "issues went back many years".... that was news to me and he was in deep... he still won't admit it but he was.....
It's time to 180... see information on that in the healing library... read all you can to make sure you do not make the mistakes so many of us here did... take care of you and that small one of yours....
Let him go... I did with my H's second 'episode'... don't communicate unless it has to do with the child.... let him get into that fantasy he so badly wants... it is likely to wear thin really fast once reality hits... make sure he is paying the child support for your child- if that means filing then do it! It sometimes wakes them up... plus it gives them less money for living out the fantasy!

I admit that when I saw the emails between my H and OW I was floored at how he flirted so much and did things to make her happy and was all into spending most of his day communicating with her, and not me! I still struggle with the words he used to talk to her and make me seem to be that bad guy and like there were so many issues in our M... when the reality was there were VERY FEW... we were very compatible in 99% of areas.... and yet, he did this anyway... I'm sorry you are also going through this.
My advice?
180 HARD!
Demand / file for child support
Communicate only about the child
Do not take phone calls/ emails/ etc. that are sappy and loving to you until he wakes up!
Throw him hard into reality... don't make it easy for him to have his cake and eat it too....
get accounts in your name only... take him off everything you can....
Start getting your life/ ducks in order to move forward without him... just in case....
Change the locks in the house...
Pack his shit and tell him to come get it...
Do this for you... you can always stop a divorce and put things back together if you want too...
Oh- and get IC.... for you!


Posts: 1178 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still lost
lamplighter
New Member
Member # 39795
Default  Posted: 1:35 PM, July 10th (Wednesday)

Thank you for the thoughtful responses.

I am in the process of scheduling IC.

I have already made him sign a written contract between now and the time a divorce is finalized (no papers have been filed) that orders him to turn over half the money he makes in every pay check to me. I am still a stay-at-home mom.

I am starting to throw the net out for jobs.

I have taken half of our savings and started my own bank account.

I am signing a lease for a 2-bedroom apartment with a wonderful friend cosigning for me at the end of this week. I move in on August 1.

I am really trying to do the 180 and I have accepted that I need to just let him go. The problem right now for me isn't accepting that I'm going to be moving on and being alone. It's that I want answers and feel driven to express things or try to get him to see reality and blah blah. But I have really, really cut back on the communication attempts over the last weeks.

I do the best I can to be cheerful and distracted. Here and there I slip up.

I had been taking these steps before I found out about the EA, which was a set-back for me in remaining neutral. I couldn't help but confront him and we've had two talks about it since. I think I am done though, unless it's initiated by him or in a counselor's office.

[This message edited by lamplighter at 1:37 PM, July 10th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 29 | Registered: Jul 2013
ajsmom
Member
Member # 17460
Default  Posted: 2:09 PM, July 10th (Wednesday)

First, I'm so sorry you are having to deal with this. It sounds from what he told his ex, he's been contemplating this for a long time. Hence his reluctance to even attempt to try to resolve things with you.

Gee, wouldn't it have been nice if he had discussed his feelings out in the open with you? So very typical, I'm afraid.

I have already made him sign a written contract between now and the time a divorce is finalized (no papers have been filed) that orders him to turn over half the money he makes in every pay check to me. I am still a stay-at-home mom.

You do know legally this means diddly squat, right? You would be much better off filing and getting a temporary legal agreement which would include not only child and spousal support but also support for maintenance.

Hang in there and keep posting.

AJ's MOM


Fidelity isn't a feeling...it's a choice.

"Truth has no special time of its own. Its hour is now - always." - Albert Schweitzer
____________________________________________
Me: BW - Him: 200+ # tumor removed 7/09
DS - 31 - Yikes!


Posts: 21041 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: Been Through Hell...On My Way Back
lamplighter
New Member
Member # 39795
Default  Posted: 3:15 PM, July 10th (Wednesday)

I did a little research and talked to a lawyer over the phone before writing the contract up, and from my understanding it will probably hold up should he choose to try to change his mind about the terms on it.

I understand the wisest thing may be to file for divorce right now. Maybe it's my sticking point, considering the ways he has been able to reason that it has been my choice rather than his to separate (he even said I was the one who suggested he sign his apartment lease, when the only thing I suggested was for him to sleep at a friend's house for a while before we got in to see a counselor). I don't feel ready to be the one of the two of us who will be responsible for filing for divorce. That may change tomorrow, but right now I think the contract and arrangement we have agreed to will suit me better anyway.


Posts: 29 | Registered: Jul 2013
lamplighter
New Member
Member # 39795
Default  Posted: 3:15 PM, July 10th (Wednesday)

Oh, and thank you, sincerely, for the feedback. It's much appreciated. :)

Posts: 29 | Registered: Jul 2013
Reality
Member
Member # 39077
Default  Posted: 3:31 PM, July 10th (Wednesday)

Wow, Lamp, I'm so sorry. It's like there's an universal SCUMBAG radio frequency they all tune into and just repeat the same songs over and over again. It's eerie and gross that they all say the same things/use the same excuses when they start being THAT GUY.

Can I just compliment you on moving forward with the planning and getting things signed in the works already? Really good job. You've seen how self serving they get when their heads are in that idiotic place. An important part of being aware of who they are choosing to be is recognizing that your well being and comfort are not on their priority list anymore.

In short, you can't rely on them to treat you fairly, let alone with compassion. That's why everyone pushes the 180 so hard; so that someone (even if it's just you) is protecting YOU.

You're already ahead of the game with getting lines drawn. Really well done.


Posts: 292 | Registered: Apr 2013
lamplighter
New Member
Member # 39795
Default  Posted: 3:32 PM, July 10th (Wednesday)

I don't wish to torture myself, but I can't stop thinking about it. I am at least going to try to post here instead of expressing it in his presence. So I may be posting a lot.

He told me last night that he did not feel a strong deep attraction to me any longer. Yet he told the other woman after only one or two short messages that he has to admit he "will always feel a strong attraction" toward her, citing her "warmth" and how easy she is to talk to. It sucks. He dated her briefly, and he told me yesterday that in that brief time it seemed like the healthiest communication he'd had in a relationship. Obviously communication is what has been lacking between the two of us. But I remember when he did tell me about her early on in our relationship, he cited the exact opposite opinions. He talked about how she was "cold" and frigid and not communicative.

It hurts that he willingly makes her into a fantasy that is so clearly not reality, all the while tearing me down, after all we've been through together and after all the love we've experienced. He really was expressing to me that I was the love of his life only a month or two ago.

While on one level I know I'm better off and he's a little boy at heart, I can't help but feel like I'm living a nightmare and might wake up and have my husband and life back.


Posts: 29 | Registered: Jul 2013
lamplighter
New Member
Member # 39795
Default  Posted: 3:34 PM, July 10th (Wednesday)

Thanks so much, Reality. That feels good to hear.

Posts: 29 | Registered: Jul 2013
Reality
Member
Member # 39077
Default  Posted: 3:56 PM, July 10th (Wednesday)

Lamp, you're so welcome.

Want a bit of a 2 x 4? The dichotomy in how he described her after the relationship was over the from back in the day versus now? Just like how you were the love of his life then suddenly you were that stranger he described to her in the messages?

As horrible as it is to recognize, he's not really in a relationship with her or YOU. What he's doing is trying to build an image of himself that he likes - everyone else is just an aid or a hindrance in that. Affairs are masturbatory; the other person is just a projection of a fantasy that person creates.

What's so awful about this, as you'll find in weird new ways every day, is that who you thought you were to him not only doesn't exist, it doesn't matter to him right now. At all. Right now all you are is a roadblock to this bright new reflection he's building. Not a reflection of a relationship or real future - but a reflection of himself.

We get changed from a loved wife/husband/SO into a card board cut out so fast.

It's bizarre and something we would never believe unless forced - like you're being forced to see him right now.

I'm so sorry, Lamp. Hugs.


Posts: 292 | Registered: Apr 2013
lamplighter
New Member
Member # 39795
Default  Posted: 6:22 PM, July 10th (Wednesday)

Thank you. I am so glad to hear these things. Many are understood by a part of me, but another part needs to hear the truth over and over and over.

Today my husband had an individual counseling session, which he has mentioned he was looking forward to several times in the last week. He sees his therapist monthly, and he had not seen him since he started the EA and certainly not since he decided he was done.

It was sort of frustrating because he had told me he would bring up the EA to his therapist. I asked him how that went and he just said "He was very non-judgmental. He just said it seemed I hadn't felt loved in so long that I needed to seek it elsewhere. That was about all we talked about that."

It is a therapist's job to be non-judgmental. And it may be true that I wasn't showing him love in a way that resonated with him (not that he communicated that to me). But it really felt like he just felt more validated that it was okay to have the EA. Frustrating.

I didn't talk about it beyond what he chose to share, though. Baby steps for me.


Posts: 29 | Registered: Jul 2013
lamplighter
New Member
Member # 39795
Default  Posted: 1:07 AM, July 11th (Thursday)

I asked him to move out tonight. I told him that if he did not do it, I would - and the only viable place for me to go was back to my parents', who are out of the state. His only other option would be to stop all contact with OW and be transparent/able to prove it.

I let him sleep on it since it's late and I didn't want the conversation to drag on, but I feel very good about putting my foot down about this. His main reason for so far refusing to move out is our son and wanting to be around him as much as possible. So this choice he has to make finally shows him the consequences of choosing his affair over acting respectfully and decently. Deal with cutting off the EA for a few weeks (after which we'll both have our own apartments), or see his son a lot less. No-brainer to me, but obviously he needs to decide.

When I first discovered the EA, I ended the night by telling him to move out or stop talking to her. He said if he ever felt compelled to write her again he would let me know and "bow out" of the home. But of course I asked him directly if he's contacted her since, and he said yes. So if he chooses to stay and not talk to her, he's going to have to give me his password or access to computer or something.

[This message edited by lamplighter at 1:08 AM, July 11th (Thursday)]


Posts: 29 | Registered: Jul 2013
myperfectlife
Member
Member # 39801
Default  Posted: 1:16 AM, July 11th (Thursday)

As horrible as it is to recognize, he's not really in a relationship with her or YOU. What he's doing is trying to build an image of himself that he likes - everyone else is just an aid or a hindrance in that. Affairs are masturbatory; the other person is just a projection of a fantasy that person creates.

Thank you Reality... I needed to hear that too.
Lamplighter, I feel for you. I am there and beyond.


I cannot be responsible for another's personal growth.
DDay#1 of a "cheatillion" 4/1/13
Divorce final 11/04/13

Posts: 452 | Registered: Jul 2013
wanttogoforward
Member
Member # 29912
Default  Posted: 8:15 AM, July 11th (Thursday)

Lamp...
I remember well when my H's EA was discovered... he denied, denied, denied..... and left me with the impression he would not email her again..... and he kept on doing it!

He escalated it over the next month until I found the evidence (he had refused to give me passwords... changed it so I couldn't see, etc...) again... and it was even worse... they clearly were not friends....
Friends DON'T:
hide a relationship with their spouse
email all hours of the day
complain about their marriage
send gifts
use emoticons like winking, etc
call each other hot and sexy and dateable
If it was only a friendship he would not have hidden this from you... please keep doing what you are.... and yes, it's good to force him to move out... you should not have to keep living with him while he gets everything he wants ie. seeing his son and HER while you suffer...
sometimes when the fantasy bubble bursts they wake up. If he doesn't then you are better off without a cheater who does not care about your feelings or want you to be first!


Posts: 1178 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still lost
lamplighter
New Member
Member # 39795
Default  Posted: 10:35 AM, July 11th (Thursday)

I've been feeling extremely low over the last few days and as such, it has taken more will power to control my feelings. I am doing okay, though.
I actually find that I have a depressive hormonal period each month, so I can reason with myself right now that it will pass as it always has and I can get back to not just PRETENDING to be upbeat, but feeling upbeat about the prospect of divorcing him.

Husband told me this morning when asked for his decision that he "had to go to work" but that he was choosing to stay. I was actually somewhat dismayed. I now actively want him gone. When he comes home from work I guess we'll see what he has to say about proving to me that he's not in contact with her. If he's not willing to hand over his computer and/or new facebook password, I'm going to insist he get the hell out.

It's crazy how someone who seems to have strong character, morals, and dignity can be such a weak-minded lying, self-justifying jerk just because it suits him. I just feel like I could never be this cruel and callous. I can't believe how blind my trust was and how many secrets and intimate things about myself I set into his lap, believing he was a safe, warm, magical place that could hold the most vulnerable parts of me. On one hand I have a million regrets about how I could have been more a better, more loving partner - more efforts, more love letters, more hugs, more sex, more thoughtful little gifts -

- and yet I know there is no excuse for this kind of cruelty and disregard for his SON! His big thing is a high and mighty attitude that he is a great dad, that he is in NO way disregarding his child's best interests, that his top priority is still our child. But so little time trying to communicate and save a marriage. So willing to not only ruin our son's chance to have a loving nuclear family, but to willingly cause so much pain and torment in the house while my son is around to soak it in, as children do no matter how well we mask our emotions.


Posts: 29 | Registered: Jul 2013
Lalagirl
Member
Member # 14576
Default  Posted: 11:42 AM, July 11th (Thursday)

If it was only a friendship he would not have hidden this from you

This sums it up in plain and simple terms.

My FWH had 2 EAs - want to talk about foggy? I couldn't take it after OW #2 - you're welcome to read my profile - long, but worth the read as my FWH finally removed his head from his ass.

((((HUGS)))) I know how you feel - you just want him to be gone so you can have some peace...then you change your mind and want to try. I get it.


Me - 49; FWH - 51
Married 30 years 9/2/13
2 grown daughters-30 & 27
5yo GS & 20 mo. GD & GB #4 due 8/15(DD30) and 2.5 yo GD(DD27). D-day #1 - 1/06; D-day #2 - 3/07
Reconciled! Construction Complete.

Posts: 5027 | Registered: May 2007
Reality
Member
Member # 39077
Default  Posted: 12:43 PM, July 11th (Thursday)

Hi, Lamp. He said he had to go to work, but that he was going to stay? Like you were interrupting his reasonable normal schedule with your pesky request? Am I reading that right or projecting? I hope the second possibility and not the first or seriously, FTG.

You're absolutely right that if he doesn't offer complete transparency when he gets home - and by "offer" I mean without a fight, without being sullen, or any other PA behaviors - then it's time to take the choice of whether he gets to stay out of his hands.

I know it's easy to get scared when we all start posting to take definitive steps to file for D or for making them leave. The reason people advocate taking those steps is that it puts control back into your hands and also shows visible and substantial consequence for the checked out WH/WW/SOs.

He can always move back in, should it prove the right thing. D filing can always be retracted. It's more that you're ready to deal with things unambiguously that's the important thing, and what it shows the WH/WW/SO.

I'm so sorry, Lamp, that instead of giving you information, he bolted for work. That reads as a jerk thing to do to me.


Posts: 292 | Registered: Apr 2013
lamplighter
New Member
Member # 39795
Default  Posted: 2:30 PM, July 11th (Thursday)

These are hard days. But I'm taking long walks around town with my son, instead of just to the nearby park. It's good to be active, keep my body in great shape, and not sitting in this house we just bought less than a year ago, staring at the memories of what I thought my life was.

For clarity's sake, him moving out refers only to the time between now and the start of August. In August we are BOTH moving out, but I was trying to let him hang around and help with our son in the interim, perhaps with a distant hope that we would reconnect.

Since discovering the EA, though, I know that doesn't feel right or healthy anymore. The real question is whether I can demand he move out. I can't force him to, and if he chooses not to, I have to figure out where to go in the meantime. I do have papers, my lease, and some bank stuff to take care of in town.

I can't wait to move.


Posts: 29 | Registered: Jul 2013
MartlArts
Member
Member # 36130
Default  Posted: 3:30 PM, July 11th (Thursday)

(((Lamp))) Honestly, it sounds as if you are doing GREAT, considering the circumstances you unwillingly have been put into. You must be an awesome mom.

I hate to become an armchair psychologist, but your H sounds scarily like a BPD person that I was involved with many years ago. This guy would go from one relationship to another through a series of exit affairs. Each new relationship, he would be quickly convinced that THIS woman was the perfect one, the most loving, beautiful, smart, amazing... you get the idea. He put his partners on a pedastal, and I can tell you, it was NICE on that pedastal. Feeling so adored, hearing how wonderful you were. Then all of a sudden, for no discernable reason, you're off the pedastal and in pieces on the ground.

The guy rewrote relationship history, I truly believed all his previous partners had been awful until I became yesterday's news myself.

What you've told of your story sounds kind of similar. I really don't mean to tell you that this is the case for you because I haven't lived your life, but if you're in IC it might be worth mentioning to your IC and asking her/him if your spouse sounds like BPD to them.

Again, I really admire the purposeful way that you are working to move forward and take care of yourself and son.

Eta:edited for spelling

[This message edited by MartlArts at 3:35 PM, July 11th (Thursday)]


excerpt from an awesome quote "Forgiveness - the finishing of old business that allows us to experience the present, free of contamination from the past."

Posts: 980 | Registered: Jul 2012
lamplighter
New Member
Member # 39795
Default  Posted: 4:59 PM, July 11th (Thursday)

Mart, I honestly am uncertain whether he has a pathological disorder. I don't want to assume that he does, because I have valued him for a long time as a very loving partner and an excellent dad.

He does have problems with circular logic, taking responsibility, and expressing his needs without resentment.

And I admit, he DOES have a pattern carrying out emotional affairs in a past relationship.
His only other long-term relationship was ten years long. In that time frame, he developed three different infatuations with other women (one a musician in a band he was in, i think, and whom he claimed was really pretty gross and disgusting when he tried to pursue her; another he spent one day with while vacationing in Europe and then thought about her obsessively upon returning to his girlfriend). The first two times this happened, he came crawling back to his girlfriend and she took him back. The third time it happened, their relationship ended for good. She has maintained NC to this day - obviously because he put her through emotional hell.

Maybe I am foolish for being blind sided, considering his history. But he is an amazing talker.. you can probably even tell from how he presents our relationship to the OW in their messages. He sounds like he knows what is good and healthy, he seemed to take responsibility and feel awful for how he treated his ex and he assured me that he felt for me something that was always missing with them. I bought it, and up until now, he really did seem totally devoted, in love, and committed.


Posts: 29 | Registered: Jul 2013
MartlArts
Member
Member # 36130
Default  Posted: 6:34 PM, July 11th (Thursday)

Hmm, the guy I once knew, had everyone feeling sorry for him. He was such a GREAT guy (we all thought) and wondered how he always seemed to end up w/crazy women. Finally learned the answer - the women didn't START crazy, he made them that way. I saw him do the same thing to the woman he moved on to after me. BUT - I don't want to project my experience onto yours. I just mentioned it as food for thought.


excerpt from an awesome quote "Forgiveness - the finishing of old business that allows us to experience the present, free of contamination from the past."

Posts: 980 | Registered: Jul 2012
lamplighter
New Member
Member # 39795
Default  Posted: 12:48 AM, July 12th (Friday)

It's been the worst day/night so far. I am shocked that I'm functioning so well considering the wreckage that is my heart and soul. I had some 180 setbacks, and I contacted the OW.
I also received a lot of support from some good friends and had a night out with several of those friends for the first time in a very long time.

On contacting her: As I said in my last few posts, I demanded transparency from husband if he wanted to stay in the home.
I contacted her. I was quite reined in, heartfelt, and open. I feel like I was extremely nice considering all I could have said. She responded defiantly at first, and when I only responded to her with measured calm and kindness I think she felt a LITTLE guilty. She all the while claimed that she was only his friend, though, and that she was NOT flirting with him.

Well, the two of them then started texting each other while he was at work. He also called her for 40 minutes in the middle of his work day.

Obviously he had no plans to tell me and I assumed the phone correspondence (which they had not had before) was meant to secretly replace the facebook messaging.

When I called him out on it, I got a nice dose of trickle truth about how much he'd communicated to her. I gave him plenty of time to tell me about the communication. First, she texted him. Then he admitted that he replied. Then admitted it was two or three messages. Then when I asked him if our phone bill would verify that story, he added on "And I called her. I was GOING to tell you that, but you interrupted me." Of course there was no interruption.

I made him show me the messages. He tried to slide by one or two where he was lying to her about details he knew that I was aware of. But basically, they both started out agreeing not to talk for now while he deals with stuff with me (which really is their code for dumping me like a piece of garbage). But then the OW started defending herself against what I had told her he said about her, and started revealing how she had a bad childhood and an apparent sexual assault or something like it. That's when he called her, probably to comfort her and connect to her for sharing that for the next 40 minutes.

Of course he worked late, being that he skipped out on work to talk to her. Reminds me of the midday phone calls that I used to get every afternoon to check in on his son and me. Haven't had one for a while, and the last time he did call, he hung up on me in 15 minutes because he was "at work" and couldnt "be on the phone too long".

I just hate that she uses the pity card to keep him on the hook, even while pretending she is saying goodbye to him. It's disgusting to use sad life circumstances to garner pity. She is shameless in holding onto my husband. He is even more shameless, intent on lying to me and treating me like scum under his shoe. I can't stand the thought of him comforting and connecting to her, and all because I asked him to draw a respectful boundary right now.

Everything I do to try to protect myself backfires and makes things hurt more. I can't believe I was so nice to her. I don't believe in blaming the OW as much for something as the cheater, so I guess I wanted to be clear that I was truly angry at him and not her. I wish I had been more unkind now.


Posts: 29 | Registered: Jul 2013
unwound
New Member
Member # 39704
Default  Posted: 10:33 AM, July 12th (Friday)

Keep working your 180. You are doing it for you not for them. Even if you feel you were too Nice to her, you scared the HELL out of her. That is why she called WH. If you meant to get in her head you did!


Me-35
WW-35
HS Sweethearts
Married 17 years
DS-15
DD-11
D-Day June 6,2013
Verizon + Integrated Messaging = I am secretly reading EVERY text and picture she sends.

Posts: 43 | Registered: Jun 2013
lamplighter
New Member
Member # 39795
Default  Posted: 11:54 AM, July 12th (Friday)

I almost wrote her again today, now that they've texted and had their first phone call, which makes me SICK, considering that his love note I found written about her talked about how he was obsessed with remembering the sound of her voice. So instead of sending it, I'm going to put it here. Trying so hard.

*

*****,
I told you I was done. But you also told me you were done.

If you look at how instantly he started hitting on and flirting with you upon you re-adding him, you can see that he was looking for an excuse to get involved in something exciting and illicit. I only told you what he said about you, not to hurt your feelings, but to get you to see how he projected qualities onto you that he really did not feel when he knew you. I don't doubt his past assessment was unfair, but his current assessment is based on fantasy and not a few facebook messages. He is doing the same thing in reverse to me, taking back all the good and telling me I've been an awful partner in every way imaginable. He is almost convincing in his fervor, but he is transparent in his tactics and interest in you.

He showed me all of your texts to him from yesterday and told me he called you. He couldn't resist hearing your voice (as I told you yesterday he was fantasizing about). He revealed it to me in order to stay in the house, because I had already told him , twice, that he needed to move out of the house immediately if he wanted to continue to communicate with you, being that he agrees it is an "emotional affair". I asked him why it was more important for him to talk to you than it was for him to stay for now and see his own son in the mornings (which he says is his favorite). He said "...You're right. It shouldn't be." He promised me twice now he would not communicate another word to you.

He doesn't respect your privacy; he only cares about himself right now and how good talking to you makes him feel about himself, when in reality he isn't acting like a good and kind person. He has friends who love him and want to help and support him. He doesn't want to talk to them because he doesn't want to admit he's infatuated with you. He doesn't want to feel like a cheater, so he ONLY talks to you.

He is using you to perpetuate a fantasy that helps him hop off his marriage and into something else as soon as possible. I have done my very best to approach things with as much grace as I can about a situation where I am going through absolute emotional hell, our son is suffering (he has started to hit and throw things at me because of the way he sees his dad treating me), and the guy you have such a "connection" to has bad mouthed you, is bad mouthing me, has disrespected every boundary I've tried to lay out for my own mental health during one of the worst times in my life, crapped on his marriage vows, and has been as cold and unkind and dishonest as I've ever been treated. He was an hour late coming home to care for his son - I had to change my plans to go out - because he had a 40 minute call to you in the middle of his work day as well as an hour of texting, and had to catch up on work. His texts to you contained weird lies, like that I discovered you two on Tuesday instead of Monday, a text I saw, though he tried to brush past it. Small lies but lies. He lies and lies and lies to you and you open up to him and trust him with intimate details and like him more and more. It is agonizing to behold. I cry myself to sleep each night wondering how any of this could be true.

I am flailing now, trying to establish boundaries and draw lines and communicate with either of the two people who are involved in my anguish. I am recognizing that my feelings and what is fair to me don't matter to either of you. I feel dehumanized and helpless.

I know it's out of my control at this point. But I imagine you being in my child's life after all this. I imagine maybe you truly stealing my husband and I feel like my insides are being crushed. I wish he would have just waited until we had divorced to do this with you, and I wish you would see that he has been very, very inappropriate for a married man, and there is no reason to believe he is behaving in an attractive way, unless the fantasy is reciprocated.

I'm just a normal, flawed, but good and loving person. I'm a human being.

****


Posts: 29 | Registered: Jul 2013
Reality
Member
Member # 39077
Default  Posted: 4:40 PM, July 12th (Friday)

Lamp, you're doing a great job. You're hurting, but you've chosen to be kind and calm in your interactions and that speaks so well for you.

I spoke with all of my husband's OW, too. I got pretty much the same response you did. In my case, I had exposed enough of my WH lies, that it turned off both sets of OWs. I also learned some terrible things he would never have told me. I'm glad you posted that letter here. It was sincere and kind and well written. I don't think she would have appreciated it. In her continuing to contact him, she's exposed herself as selfish, self involved, and not worthy of more effort.

Every piece of info you learn gives you a clearer picture of who your husband is choosing to be. The old adage you'll see here is "When someone shows you who they are, believe them."

It's a small sentence that means big, true things. Watch your WH, Lamp. See him for who he is. He's choosing that guy, BEING that guy.

I'm so sorry. Turn some of that kindness on yourself. Cuddle your son. It feels like time doesn't move during this, but this will end.


Posts: 292 | Registered: Apr 2013
lamplighter
New Member
Member # 39795
Default  Posted: 5:50 PM, July 12th (Friday)

Today we had marriage counseling. We talked about the emotional affair. I feel incredibly unsatisfied and more confused than ever.
Our counselor hasn't been guiding us, I feel. She seemed to almost dismiss the affair, simply asking him if he is willing to "put it on hold", which he said he would do for our son's sake while we are still living there. She also said that it was just ONE theory, when I said it was clear that he transferred his love and affection and attraction to the OW from me, and that was the point at which he gave up on the marriage. It felt like she dismissed it all, and wanted to focus on crap like "maybe you guys can split up who makes dinner on different days" and "get a hamper for your son's room" , all the while ignoring the affair and my husband's unwillingness to commit to working on the marriage.
She glides over the fact that he just says "I don't know if I can get over that feeling that I've just hit a limit and I'm done".

So what does this mean for me? We have more counseling appointments scheduled, one for next week - I feel like she is just letting us talk, not giving us "homework" except random suggestions about how a problem could be compromised on here and there, and then scheduling another appointment.

All the while talking about the EA and my husband's clear checking out of the marriage is glossed over.

A part of me leaves feeling "Well we're still going to counseling. Maybe she gave him food for thought" and then the other part feels more hopeless because I feel stuck more into limbo than in a 'moving on' phase. He hasn't changed any of his attitudes or fatalistic thoughts or desires to just be free of me, so why am I still going?

Am I just being strung along by the counselor at this point? She isn't telling me that there is any hope, she's just encouraging us to try. But he isn't trying and she's not asking him to make any steps at all toward me. I feel I might just be setting myself up for more pain, but if I stopped going, then my husband can say I was the one who quit counseling.

[This message edited by lamplighter at 6:09 PM, July 12th (Friday)]


Posts: 29 | Registered: Jul 2013
Skan
Member
Member # 35812
Default  Posted: 8:28 PM, July 12th (Friday)

IMO it''s useless and a waste of both time and money to go to MC with someone who doesn''t want to save the marriage. And at this point, he doesn''t. If he did, he would have cut off the OW and would have fully committed himself to you.

So cancel the rest of the appointments. Spend the money on seeing an IC for you. It will be far better for you than sitting in an appointment discussing hampers while there is a Elephant crapping on the carpet in front of everyone. (((hugs)))


Imagine a ship trying to set sail while towing an anchor. Cutting free is not a gift to the anchor. You must release that burden, not because the anchor is worthy, but because the ship is.

D-Day, June 10, 2012



Posts: 4727 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: So California
Take2
Member
Member # 23890
Default  Posted: 9:09 PM, July 12th (Friday)

I agree with Skan - IC for you is a better investment right now. MC at this point is a waste of time and it sounds like this particular C is out of his/her depth.

Just curious - did your relationship start this way with him? By which I mean - was it a whirlwind, face-paced, sweep you off your feet deal...?

Given the history you described, it sure seems like he needs a fix every 3 or 4 years... I wonder if you might learn more talking to the xgf that stayed with him for 10 years - than the current OW... I'm seriously suggesting that.

Please reread Reality's explanation, given what you have written - I think she is on the money! In fact, copy and and put it somewhere - I suspect with more time and distance you will find it very helpful...

Meanwhile focus on you! What you need to feel peaceful, go out and do things for you - spend time with your son, get out of the house as much as possible. ((lamplighter))


"We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned, so as to have the life that is waiting for us." Joseph Campbell...So, If fear was not a factor - what would you do?

Posts: 4112 | Registered: May 2009 | From: New England
lamplighter
New Member
Member # 39795
Default  Posted: 7:17 PM, July 13th (Saturday)

Our marriage counseling is covered by his insurance.

So I think I've made some big mistakes. I am feeling more confused than ever. I truly see the wisdom in the 180, even though it goes against my instincts.

After counseling, we got some ice cream. Then later we went on a walk with our son together, as was suggested during our session. He had told me he was going to go out that night, and after our son went to bed, he fixed a big plate of food and brought it over to the couch where I was to share it with me.

Well, instead of going out we talked until 2 a.m. - and not about our relationship or where it went wrong. He asked me some questions about who I had gone out with - I met a man for coffee and scrabble earlier in the week, although there was no flirting and it was not framed as a date. I asked him why wanted to know, and he said he thought we were being honest and forthcoming. Of course we had only talked about him being honest about his EA. He said in counseling again that he is "putting it on hold" until he's moved out. Well I told him I didn't mind telling him, but that I wanted to know why he cared. He then said he wanted to "see how he would feel about it" and admitted he hadn't processed or thought about what it would feel like to know I'm going out with other men. I gave him a brief, honest synopsis, and I could tell that even though nothing happened and there was no flirting, he was still a little jealous. He said "I guess I'm glad you didn't fall head over heels for him". I said "Imagine how I feel." He paused and then said "Must feel pretty bad."
First acknowledgement.

Our talk continued, as he asked me a specific question about a past relationship I was in. We talked for a long time and after a while it felt suddenly intimate. He said it was the closest he had felt to me in a very long time.

We then talked about the possibility of dating while living separately and going slowly to see if we could reconcile. He expressed that he wanted that, wanted to try, and lots of positivity about it.

And (this might have been a big mistake) we ended up sleeping together, for the first time in more than a month.

I encouraged him to go to sleep in his own room, and told him I really did want to take it super slow. To gradually figure out if reconciling is what we want over the next few weeks.

I feel sort of pathetic, for being so open with him and allowing myself to connect with him, but it also deep-down felt like I was with my husband again, and that feeling flooding me was just irresistible. I felt like the plan for reconciliation was a sensible one, at least as far as we verbalized it so far, but that is ignoring the EA. I honestly am not certain at all that I want to reconcile with him and I know that when I'm on my own I may really want to take the opportunity to explore other options, to date, etc. I don't know if he can ever "make it up to me" or if he's ever going to be truly invested in making it up to me.
Before the EA was revealed I felt certain that the marriage was worth saving and fully salvageable. Now that it has been, I haven't processed fully what it means about him and/or about me.

And most obviously, I know he is still infatuated with the other woman and I am not sure if he has the strength of will to overcome it, even if he decides he wants to. We haven't discussed yet whether he is willing to totally cut her off, not just now but in the future. The evidence so far says that he has not contacted her since Thursday, when they had the phone call. But the evidence also says that he is preoccupied with thinking about her.

I have no idea, honestly, if a reconciliation is what I want, and whether I should be 180ing or working out details about what we expect of each other moving forward.

Time will tell whether things improve or get worse between now and the time we go our separate ways. Either way I'm signing my lease tomorrow and continuing with making plans - joining a game league with some friends, planning for an out-of-town old friend to come visit, etc., and I'm looking forward to life, whether my husband is a part of it in any way or not.


Posts: 29 | Registered: Jul 2013
unwound
New Member
Member # 39704
Default  Posted: 8:45 PM, July 13th (Saturday)

Opening up to you seems like a step in the right direction. Even if you two don't work out. I have wondered about sex because I am on such poor terms with my wife but I don't think I could resist. Since you already did enjoy the good part of it! It seems like some of these MC are willing to take your money without doing their job.


Me-35
WW-35
HS Sweethearts
Married 17 years
DS-15
DD-11
D-Day June 6,2013
Verizon + Integrated Messaging = I am secretly reading EVERY text and picture she sends.

Posts: 43 | Registered: Jun 2013
lamplighter
New Member
Member # 39795
Default  Posted: 8:11 AM, July 14th (Sunday)

So yesterday we had another good day. We spent a little time having a yard sale together. We each went out at a different point in the evening. When he came home in the evening he made another plate of food that he knew I liked and sat down beside me. He asked me a question that led to another shorter than last night, but still significant conversation. I got to talk, and he was interested/asked questions. Then we went our "separate ways" but he did come to my room and we had sex for the second night in a row.

As he was leaving this time, I reached over to kiss him and he hesitated. I asked him if he went weird about being affectionate when it wasn't sexual, and he admitted he felt mixed feelings about a meaningful "kiss" . Of course this made me feel bad, and he understood and said he was sorry.

We ended up talking while lying in bed in the dark for about an hour. He said he was still unsure if he wanted to reconcile because he wanted someone to "appreciate him for who he is from the start". Unfortunately regardless of what I want, I can't change his perceptions about the "start" of our relationship.

I finally said something about the "elephant in the room", his infatuation with someone else. He became quickly distant and cold when she was mentioned, claimed he really hadn't been thinking about her for the last two days and told me it wasnt really in my "best interest" to bring it up, or at least to talk about it in the way that i had. He said that he'd thought maybe sex could be a healing thing for us in some ways; he also told me that that day was the very first day since all of this started when he let himself daydream about what life with me could be like in the future. He emphasized that it was the "very first day" his mind went in that direction. He didn't like that he felt I was trying to bad mouth her in order to make myself look better - he said my "persuasion tactics" were blatant.

So I guess I'm just feeling crappy and confused. I did sense things were better than ever today, but I also have felt uncomfortable kind of knowing he did not want to discuss her, and I'm sure the people here can understand that I've felt we need to discuss the EA and his feelings about her in order to move forward. Otherwise, even if he isn't talking to her, it still feels like cake eating for me, and it makes me feel I am being weak and setting myself up for hurt.

I pointed out to him that what was in my "best interest" was to be able to make an informed decision based on my own feelings and where things stand with us. I told him I wasn't certain we would work out or that I would want to reconcile. It's clear that he doesn't like the idea of me with anyone else.

Am I rushing him to have this conversation and actually ruining positive progress, as he has communicating to me? Is it possible that he needs to just not talk or think about her in order to gain perspective?

I have felt like some things needed to be said and discussed, especially after he tensed up last night when I drew him in for a kiss. He tells me he needs to process things internally and not externally. I wish I knew how to trust that, but experience has taught me that when he is internally processing, he spends time justifying himself instead of trying to be totally honest.

He told me I was trying to convince him she was "unhealthy" and that it really looked bad on me. Do you think there is any way she is a healthy person and I'm being unfair?
I know that this is happening because of him and not because of her, but it does bother me that when one of them talks about maybe not talking "right now" or putting their "friendship" on hold, she will continue to find reasons to say one more thing, and most recently, after they both mutually agreed to not talk, she took the opportunity to drop a big intense secret in his lap - the implication that she was sexually assaulted. He of course responded by calling her and talking to her for 40 minutes. As seriously as I take abuse issues, that choice seemed manipulative at best. I know there is no way in hell I would reveal something intimate and painful to someone right after we agree to stop talking and say goodbye. That said, I would have run for the hills if any ex of mine, regardless of attraction to him, instantly upon reconnecting, dropped a load on me regarding his horrible marriage AND flirted with me. It's obviously a big mess and a sign of someone who is not stable or healthy. She also had other emotional issues she would bring up in their conversations, like saying she was neglected as a child, and then when he asked about it she'd be like "Oh I don't want to talk about the past". In her letter to me when I contacted her, she defended her own behavior by saying she had "lost a lot of people in the past 5-7 years" and said I would probably "not understand unless you've been through it". She seems like she has a lot of baggage and uses said baggage to excuse herself, or to reel people in.

This is a ramble at this point. The thing is, I know there are places where I failed in my marriage. That is what makes me hold on and not just hate him right now. My actions were often hurtful to him, and I can understand that. While I had no intention of controlling our relationship, I do recognize that he wasn't happy sometimes even though he wasn't really communicating it. I see where it could feel to him like the relationship was smothering, or how he could feel I was controlling. So it is hard not to blame myself and try to give him all this space and control he felt he lacked.

But I've never seen advice on here or anywhere telling me to just try to rug sweep the relationship and forge a new bond with him, minus communication about an affair. It doesn't feel right, and I'm pretty sure I'm going to be told by anyone at all that it isn't right either. Yet he seems pretty convinced that that is what he needs.


Posts: 29 | Registered: Jul 2013
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 9:52 AM, July 14th (Sunday)

He's cake eating.

Putting his "relationship" with her "on hold" means he isn't committed to you or R. He can not make a healthy decision as long as she is standing by waiting.

You have every right to ask what you want. He is manipulating you into backing down..saying YOU look bad because you don't like his girlfriend? Um..he's your husband...what a ridiculous thing to say.

No honey..she isn't ok. She is toxic. She is knowingly having an affair with a married man. There is nothing healthy about that.

He must be willing to talk about it if he decides he wants to R.

In the meantime..stop having sex with him. He wants to date you..and other people. As long as he isn't on his knees crying and asking you to give him another chance,you need to 180 this man. You're setting yourself up for more pain.


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,10
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Happily Reconciled.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7321 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
Duffy1958
Member
Member # 39755
Default  Posted: 11:00 AM, July 14th (Sunday)

Lamp, when I read this----> He didn't like that he felt I was trying to bad mouth her in order to make myself look better - he said my "persuasion tactics" were blatant. I about came uncorked. That is so manipulative & condescending to you, his WIFE.

Do NOT be accepting of her in any way. He wants to legitimize their relationship as "friends". No, they are not just friends. To characterize her
in any other way besides a cheat,
liar, manipulator etc etc is just NOT
correct.

Don't allow him to label this a
"friendship". "Friends" don't interfere with friends marriages. They have gone too far.

As hard as it may feel like it, you could insist he write a "no contact" letter. The "friendship/relationship is NOT put on hold. It is over or he is out. Period.

I would write that counsellor a letter & DISMISS their ass with specifics. I understand your reasoning for not wanting to discontinue but at this point it IS giving him fuel for his fire. "Put the relationship on hold?" WTF? I know a counsellor has a duty to remain non judgmental but if your husband was contemplating jumping off of a bridge, the counsellor WOULD get real judgmental real quick. Why this sorry counsellor is not as offended by self-destructive behavior in infidelity-they are in wrong business. Unfortunately there are a lot of horror stories.

If you feel like you really have to go back-Arm yourself. Take a stand for your marriage-it's what you are there for-not rug sweeping. The counsellor seems to be helping to sweep the core issues under the rug.

Flat tell them both, "We are not going to discuss anything else besides A-B-C. I came to counseling to do the hard work of recovering my life. I came for help & THIS is what I need."

He is still trying to have his cake & ear it too. How ego boosting for HIM if the ex girlfriend waits while he puts their relationship on hold. This is so wrong.

Tell your husband "Look buddy, DON'T get it twisted. I am the WIFE I won't be treated as anything less." of course this is open to interpretation but it is YOUR interpretation he needs to worry about.

Do not accept this. 180, step back & clear your head. Don't beat yourself up, that is totally counterintuitive to what you need. You are strong. It is obvious. You are wise. You have been making very wise choices early on. You are getting a more clear picture of what you are dealing with because we are left to figure all of this shit out. We can't count on their honesty. I know you say everything is so confusing so there is your picture. When it's confusing, it's bullshit. In my observation anyway.

Best to you & prayers. Edited because I can't type anymore.

[This message edited by Duffy1958 at 11:26 AM, July 14th (Sunday)]


Me-SAHW soon 55
Him-asshat age 60
Married 3.5 years together 13.5
Step-children 8 altogether Grandchildren.
Cheaters are the same yesterday, today & forever. They may have different caveats but they lie the same & pull the same shit.

Where i


Posts: 114 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: California
lamplighter
New Member
Member # 39795
Default  Posted: 3:54 PM, July 14th (Sunday)

Thank you so much. I think I know what I need to do in terms of emotional distance and letting him go. But it feels like the most horrible, impossible thing, especially for the next two weeks while we're living together, and especially considering the recent connections we've been making. I don't know how to disengage emotionally. I don't know how to 180 him when a part of me holds tight to the hope that spending quality time with him and showing him my best self will slowly draw him away from her and toward me.

I know all the while that I don't deserve to have to do that, and that I'm dehumanizing myself for wanting to do it.

The pain is crushing. It comes in waves. I want so badly to communicate with him. i'm still partially in shock that he doesn't care anymore, that he doesn't WANT to connect to me anymore.

I know I deserve so much better. I know I am a good person, someone that many people will find attractive. But knowing that doesn't help me right now, because I chose him. I married him. I trusted him.

I feel a little like I'm spiraling downward emotionally. I wouldn't wish this hell on anyone.

I tiptoe around him, always hopeful that he might want to talk, waiting to see if he seems open to it, feeling guilty and like I did something bad when I see him sigh or become frustrated. I know I have a right to demand actions and commitments and communication, but I stuff down what I need from him in order to try to give him what it seems he wants or needs from me. I know I have more self-respect than that, but I feel so small in the face of all this.


Posts: 29 | Registered: Jul 2013
Duffy1958
Member
Member # 39755
Default  Posted: 8:40 PM, July 14th (Sunday)

I know Lamp. I understand the fear, confusion & how overwhelming this is. Sometimes you have to deal with the immediate & the future put on hold but only for a minute.

This is new. The most painful & confusing time. You are in it. Sometimes breathing is all you can manage. It's so overwhelming right now, maybe it's just breathing time. It hurts. I know. I'm right here with you. If you can't do much right now babe, that's Ok & to be expected.

As far as your feelings towards him & what you describe as walking on egg shells, you won't always feel like that. You will get sick of it when you get sick of it. We all do it I think. Some longer than others, granted.

This is such a shock to our system, striking us in the very heart of our being. We are in shock, we WILL be in shock. Shock wears off babe. You are a smart girl. Don't be too hard on yourself.


Me-SAHW soon 55
Him-asshat age 60
Married 3.5 years together 13.5
Step-children 8 altogether Grandchildren.
Cheaters are the same yesterday, today & forever. They may have different caveats but they lie the same & pull the same shit.

Where i


Posts: 114 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: California
lamplighter
New Member
Member # 39795
Default  Posted: 9:49 AM, July 15th (Monday)

Yesterday I went to a yoga class with some friends and just cried through the latter third of the poses. I felt so much of this pent-up pain, frustration, and confusion pulling itself, literally, out of my body.
Then my friends and I had breakfast out in the sunlight and they helped me to clear my head.

I knew what I needed to do that night. I felt clarity on a level I had not yet felt, since this nightmare began for me. It was time to set a boundary. There are only two paths I am willing to walk down right now, and I needed to let my husband know just what each of those entailed.

The first path is eventual reconciliation, which for me at this point, considering the damage done and my lack of trust in him, includes the continuation of our separation. I signed my lease yesterday evening. We both have one-year commitments to new apartments while our home will be rented out. This path includes total willingness to communicate and rebuilding intimacy from the ground up, starting with friendship and dating, without the perhaps impossibly claustrophobic environment of working all this out in close quarters. We each need an opportunity for lots of personal space to decide what it means for us. That said, the reconciliation path also means commitment to working on us, applying ourselves to fostering a connection, and it means that he needs to end things permanently with the OW. For now things are "on hold", but that is not a good enough promise to me. He would need to write her a very solid NC letter that I would read and send. He would also need to be transparent and willing to "prove" he is following through.

The second path is as close to NC as we can be while having a son. Parenting is pretty much the only thing we will communicate about, and conversations would happen via email. No friendship, no hanging out in each other's apartments, no general updates on our personal lives. Discussion about our son and nothing else. Permanently.


It really hurt to lay all of this down, as I haven't gotten many indications that he's anywhere close to ready to reconcile. So I went into the talk fully expecting that NC would need to be implemented immediately. Made it hard and made me a little sick to my stomach all day anticipating the talk.

The talk went moderately well. I know my husband was not happy with either option. I remained calm and accepting of every doubt or fear he had of reconciling as he cycled through some of them with him. I just said "I accept that you feel that way" and reiterated calmly that I would not be interested in reconciling with someone who doesn't really want that himself. I think he understood more than he has yet what he stands to lose. For the first time he admitted a fear of doing the wrong thing, of making a mistake, of being a "fuck-up". He also acknowledged that he realized over the last few days that not having contact with OW actually left him space to reconnect a little with me.

I read him an article about the fog early on in the conversation and I think he began to recognize that it applies to him. We also looked at a list of signs you are having an emotional affair, as he expressed desire to understand instead of just getting defensive - whether/how it was really clear cut that he was indeed involved in something serious enough to be called an affair.

He said he really needed to think about things. I told him I didn't really have time any longer to wait for him to figure things out, but that I would give him two days. I told him that at the end of day one, which is today, he needed to at least check in and communicate a bit of where he was at in his thought process, and then he could have one more day.

He accepted this. He also became hostile toward me about a "separate" issue - regarding the splitting up of his checks and the agreement he signed. I just told him I didn't need his hostility and that I was no longer willing to endure it. He did eventually stop and reign himself in.

We'll see what happens over the next two days. I don't have expectations but I feel very good and peaceful right now about clearly defining my needs and boundaries and demanding a response from him about what he wants/isn't ready to commit to.


Posts: 29 | Registered: Jul 2013
unwound
New Member
Member # 39704
Default  Posted: 10:20 PM, July 22nd (Monday)

Wow! You set an excellent boundary. Who the hell does he think he is getting mad at you? You are taking control of your life and it is very flattering on you.


Me-35
WW-35
HS Sweethearts
Married 17 years
DS-15
DD-11
D-Day June 6,2013
Verizon + Integrated Messaging = I am secretly reading EVERY text and picture she sends.

Posts: 43 | Registered: Jun 2013
darklilly23
New Member
Member # 39457
Default  Posted: 6:27 PM, July 23rd (Tuesday)

Hi lamp,

I have a story a bit like yours.

I PM you.


Posts: 33 | Registered: Jun 2013
Topic Posts: 39