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User Topic: Kids and the new SO
pointmagnet
Member
Member # 16565
Default  Posted: 12:15 PM, July 15th (Monday)

Ok I feel like I need a little advice here… What do I need to do to convince my kids (son, 26 and his wife, other son, 17) that the woman I am having a LDR with is a good person and not just out for my money? (which by the way is not much).

My two sons and daughter-in-law, and myself moved in together in the fall of 2012 after the WW essentially kicked the youngest boy out of the formal marital home. I basically said, wherever he goes, I will too, as he needs a parent and will continue to need a parent for awhile.

So for the last 10 months or so, we have had a nice setup. We live in a big, nice house; the oldest boy and his wife have the master bedroom, the youngest has basically the whole upstairs and I have the guest room. I pay all the household bills (the oldest and his wife give me some money each month to help with property tax). Additionally I do all the yard work and clean up after all of the pets.

My SO is quite a bit younger than me and honestly lives in a different world. She lives pretty much in poverty but makes ends meet and still has a great outlook on life. I honestly don’t think she is only interested in getting a visa to come to the states and then dump me.

Last weekend I came back from a trip abroad where my relationship with my SO improved greatly. She is a sweetheart and I am starting to think we are in love. We have talked about a possible 90-day visa for her to come with me to the states so that we really can see if things will work out. And this won’t happen likely until December of this year!

Even with this long and careful timeline, my oldest son is so threatened with the possibility of me having another woman in my life that he won’t even agree to go on a vacation to a Caribbean island (paid for by me) to get to know her. And he flat out states: “If she comes for a visit or to move in, we’re leaving.”

This, to me, is simply unreasonable. My son and his wife would have to come up with about $1800/month (probably more) to replace the “freebies” that they are getting while living under my roof. He would likely have to give up the job he likes in favor of one that pays better. Plus they would have to go through the unpleasantness of moving. And he and his wife would do that just to avoid someone that they haven’t met even once yet.

Honestly, I don’t know what to think. I have met my SO’s daughter a few times (18yrs), and she is charming and nice to me. Why are my kids behaving like this? They have said they are protecting me, but I'm a grown man and don't feel I need this kind of protection.

Thoughts??? - Feel free to bring a 2x4 if you think it's needed!

[This message edited by pointmagnet at 12:18 PM, July 15th (Monday)]


Me (BS): 53
Her (WW): 51
Married: A long time
Children: Three of them
D-Day: 10/07/07; 12/15/12
Status: Done

Posts: 474 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: USA
Amazonia
Member
Member # 32810
Default  Posted: 12:23 PM, July 15th (Monday)

Sorry to be a nay sayer, but every post you've made about this woman has left my skin crawling at how manipulative she is toward you. If the vibe I'm getting is accurate, I think your kids have valid concerns.


"You yourself deserve your love and affection as much as anybody in the universe." -Buddha
"Let's face it, life is a crap shoot." -Sad in AZ

Posts: 13739 | Registered: Jul 2011
FaithFool
Member
Member # 20150
Default  Posted: 12:23 PM, July 15th (Monday)

I'm trying to do the math here... Are you divorced yet? Already in love and meeting the offspring, wow, that is pretty quick.

Your 17-year-old has just been through the wringer here, less than a year ago, so your eldest is probably in protective mode about him too.

Since you *chose* this co-housing arrangement, it's not all about you. Everyone is going to be affected, and that might explain the resistance to the idea of changing things up so soon.

All may be on the up and up with this new woman, but you would not be the first well-to-do American boy to be duped by a charmer looking for a green card and a meal ticket.

Personally I think you're moving way too fast.


DDay: June 15, 2008
Mistakenly married Mr. Superfreak
20 years of OWs, WTF?
Divorced Dec 26, 2011
"Life is a shipwreck, but we must not forget
to sing in the lifeboats". -- Voltaire

Posts: 17390 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: Canada
lieshurt
Member
Member # 14003
Default  Posted: 12:30 PM, July 15th (Monday)

My SO is quite a bit younger than me and honestly lives in a different world. She lives pretty much in poverty but makes ends meet and still has a great outlook on life. I honestly don’t think she is only interested in getting a visa to come to the states and then dump me.

This happens quite often, so I can understand why your kids feel the way they do. My mother did this to my dad. He was in the Army in Korea and they began a relationship. Wasn't too long before she was pregnant and he married her to bring her back to the states. He also got her brother over here too. After a couple of years, she divorced him. I can clearly remember her and her korean friends talking about getting these americans to fall for them by any means necessary and being able to move to the US as a result. Getting pregnant pretty much sealed the deal. For them, it was about doing whatever they needed to get what they wanted. My uncle has a friend who married a woman from Russia, another who married a woman from the Phillipines and they both say they were duped by these women so they could get their citizenship. Honestly, if I were a man I would stay away from these situations.


ETA....ditto Amazonia.

[This message edited by lieshurt at 12:31 PM, July 15th (Monday)]


I'm sorry if you don't like my Honesty, but to be fair I don't like your lies.

Sometimes it's better to push someone away...not because you stopped loving them but because you can't take the pain anymore.


Posts: 13753 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Houston
EvenKeel
Member
Member # 24210
Default  Posted: 12:36 PM, July 15th (Monday)

WW essentially kicked the youngest boy out of the formal marital home.

Regardless of age, no child would like to feel they are not welcome in their parent's home.

So you realized that and made a new home with him (and your other DS/DIL).

That was only in the fall-2012 and now you are exhibited signs of being in /relationship love with someone new and potentially introducing her into his 'safe haven'? Lets put aside all her red-flags right now.....can't you see why they are in defense mode?

And he and his wife would do that just to avoid someone that they haven’t met even once yet.

I am not going to comment on this woman's intentions with you....but the statement you said above should be giving you its own 2x4.

Your kiddos are older and close to flying the coop....give them that security they need. If this woman is legit, she will understand and wait the years it requires.



Eyes are useless if the mind is blind.


Posts: 2100 | Registered: May 2009 | From: Pa
Crescita
Member
Member # 32616
Default  Posted: 12:46 PM, July 15th (Monday)

It sounds like your kids love you and want you to be happy. Since they don’t know her, their doubts about her are most likely coming from you. Consider things you have said, how you behave with the ups and downs of the relationship. Your concerns about her intentions have been clear in every post, I’m sure it is coming across crystal clear to them as well. You can’t expect them to assuage your fears before you have adequately addressed them yourself. You need to get this sorted and give them time to see that you truly are happy and seeing this realistically.

Posts: 3388 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: The Valley of the Sun
jennie160
Member
Member # 29949
Default  Posted: 12:56 PM, July 15th (Monday)

I'm in a LDR as well, so I can sympathize with how difficult the distance can be. But I have to agree with the others. Why not take your time with the relationship and see how things progress in their current state for awhile.

The fact that she is willing to give up her life and move thousands of mile after a short period of dating is a big red flag to me. I'm 2.5 years in with SO and just now starting to plan for relocation. I can't even imagine giving up my life, family and home for someone that I have known for such a short period of time.


Posts: 921 | Registered: Oct 2010
pointmagnet
Member
Member # 16565
Default  Posted: 1:11 PM, July 15th (Monday)

I hear all of you... And I also worry sometimes about all of those concerns listed...

December is the absolute earliest that she could visit - That would be about 11 months of on/off dating.

My WW and I only dated for about 9 months before tying the knot and boy that really turned out well.. :/

The safe-haven comment is the one that hits home. I've never thought that a smartass, know-it-all teenage boy would need a safe-haven, but you are right. That's exactly what he needs.

I guess things will have to be on the back burner for an extended period whether I like it or not. Hell, it's been 10 years since my first marriage had any elements of love left in it - I should be able to wait a few more to ensure its the real thing...


Me (BS): 53
Her (WW): 51
Married: A long time
Children: Three of them
D-Day: 10/07/07; 12/15/12
Status: Done

Posts: 474 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: USA
Sad in AZ
Member
Member # 24239
Default  Posted: 1:57 PM, July 15th (Monday)

I have a little different take on this. It sounds like your married son & DIL are taking advantage of you (with your blessings) It's about time they grew up and flew the coop. They should not be threatening you about your relationships.

Having said that, I do agree you should proceed cautiously with this woman from overseas. If she's only coming on a 90-day visa, then going home, I see little harm, but if she pushes for M while she's here, you need to be prepared. That would be a huge red flag.

As for your 17-year old, I didn't see anything in your posts that indicates he's upset about this; what has he said?


I solemnly swear that I am up to no good.

Posts: 20160 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Upstate NY
pointmagnet
Member
Member # 16565
Default  Posted: 2:13 PM, July 15th (Monday)

My 17 yr-old hasn't really said anything to me about it.... But that doesn't mean he's not unhappy about it - he just doesn't share his feelings as well as his older brother.

He's a pretty normal teenager. Has lots of friends he spends time with. Sometimes they come to our house, sometimes they go to others' houses. He has a girlfriend, a job, and enjoys riding his longboard...

I'm glad you asked about him... turns out he is scheduled to go spend a couple of weeks with his mother starting tomorrow. Fun for him.


Me (BS): 53
Her (WW): 51
Married: A long time
Children: Three of them
D-Day: 10/07/07; 12/15/12
Status: Done

Posts: 474 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: USA
Kajem
Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 3:47 PM, July 15th (Monday)

Pointmagnet,

It sounds like you do a lot of traveling and saying in places for a period of time. Who watches out for your 17yo when you are gone? If it's your older son and his wife, they may get to have a say in you bringing her to stay. Especially if 17yo DS talks to them.

I would talk to 17DS and ask.

My feelings about this woman/girl is to hold off on her coming for at least a year. I think your younger son needs to have a household with very little changes. I assume he is beginning his senior year of HS... He NEEDS your attention for the next year.

Hugs,

K


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 5078 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
FaithFool
Member
Member # 20150
Default  Posted: 4:48 PM, July 15th (Monday)

This ^^^^ for your son, very important.

Point, are you divorced yet? Just wondering.

If I were you I would proceed *very* carefully and make sure that when you eventually take the intimacy to the next level, you play it very safe, as in don't get her pregnant safe.

A pregnancy is a ticket to permanent residency and then you would be in a fine pickle.

Unless that's where you want to go with things, in which case ignore what I just said.

[This message edited by FaithFool at 4:49 PM, July 15th (Monday)]


DDay: June 15, 2008
Mistakenly married Mr. Superfreak
20 years of OWs, WTF?
Divorced Dec 26, 2011
"Life is a shipwreck, but we must not forget
to sing in the lifeboats". -- Voltaire

Posts: 17390 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: Canada
pointmagnet
Member
Member # 16565
Default  Posted: 6:08 PM, July 15th (Monday)

No my divorce isn't final yet.

The WW spends every waking (and non-waking) moment with the OM and proudly displays it on Facebook, etc... She's too busy having sex with him in public to deal with something as trivial as getting a divorce and letting me move on with my life.

I just don't get it. WW gets to have a boy-toy and flaunt it big-time with no repercussions, while I get shouted down if I even mention that I might like another woman.

I guess some people get to have actual lives and some people just get to pay for it.

Oh and the pregnancy thing... I've had a vasectomy so that's not an issue. Also, my girlfriend actually has scruples - so we haven't had sex yet and aren't planning to until engaged or even married. I guess in this day and age, that's probably another "red flag" in everyone's book.

[This message edited by pointmagnet at 6:11 PM, July 15th (Monday)]


Me (BS): 53
Her (WW): 51
Married: A long time
Children: Three of them
D-Day: 10/07/07; 12/15/12
Status: Done

Posts: 474 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: USA
lieshurt
Member
Member # 14003
Default  Posted: 6:18 PM, July 15th (Monday)

Also, my girlfriend actually has scruples - so we haven't had sex yet and aren't planning to until engaged or even married.

Well, as a woman who apparently doesn't have scruples I see this as more of a manipulative tactic than anything.


I'm sorry if you don't like my Honesty, but to be fair I don't like your lies.

Sometimes it's better to push someone away...not because you stopped loving them but because you can't take the pain anymore.


Posts: 13753 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Houston
inconnu
Member
Member # 24518
Default  Posted: 6:25 PM, July 15th (Monday)

I'm in an LDR, and have been for 3 1/2 years, although we both are in the same country.

I just don't get it. WW gets to have a boy-toy and flaunt it big-time with no repercussions, while I get shouted down if I even mention that I might like another woman.

It took almost 2 years for my now-18 yr old to be willing to meet my SO. It was 3 years before SO stayed at my house when he came for a visit, because we knew we had to proceed at a slower pace around my kids, due to the way the boys' dad handled his leaving, the divorce, moving in with the OW, etc. And that was all before we knew ex had married OW, and told the boys after the fact.

Sometimes it really sucks to be the way more responsible parent, especially when you have to act differently than you want to because the other parent is a dumbass, but at least I know my kids respect me.

[This message edited by inconnu at 6:27 PM, July 15th (Monday)]


Say what you wanna say and let the words fall out...honestly
I wanna see you be brave

Pretty pretty please, don't you ever ever feel
Like you're less than, less than perfect


Posts: 12146 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: TX
FaithFool
Member
Member # 20150
Default  Posted: 6:53 PM, July 15th (Monday)

Why are my kids behaving like this? They have said they are protecting me, but I'm a grown man and don't feel I need this kind of protection.

If you really feel this way ^^^ then go ahead, bring her over to live with you for the 90 days and let the chips fall where they may.

Maybe your kids will go and set up house somewhere else together and everyone will be happier.


DDay: June 15, 2008
Mistakenly married Mr. Superfreak
20 years of OWs, WTF?
Divorced Dec 26, 2011
"Life is a shipwreck, but we must not forget
to sing in the lifeboats". -- Voltaire

Posts: 17390 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: Canada
persevere
Member
Member # 31468
Default  Posted: 11:41 PM, July 15th (Monday)

I tend to bend towards SAZ's thought, however, I think you need to separate the issues.

Exactly why are you supporting a married couple? They should be supporting themselves.

The issues with SO are separate from that but it sounds like you should do what you can to minimize the concerns there by taking a close look at the concerns in question.


Me: BW-44
Him: XWH-44
Together 9 yrs
DDays: 1/10/2011
Status: Divorced 4/27/11

Above all, be the heroine, not the victim. - Nora Ephron

It is our choices...that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities.
- J. K. Rowling


Posts: 4516 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: Texas
OnceInALifetime
Member
Member # 26023
Default  Posted: 12:08 AM, July 16th (Tuesday)

I find it strange that your older married son is laying down ultimatums. Where do you think his hatred of this woman comes from?


BH, now divorced

Posts: 3012 | Registered: Oct 2009
Cally60
Member
Member # 23437
Default  Posted: 7:31 AM, July 16th (Tuesday)

Am I right in guessing that your SO the first woman you've dated, or the first you've seriously dated, since the split?

You were married for a long time and you imply that your marriage was an empty one long before the split. If I were your mother or older sister, I, too, would be concerned about you. In your situation, after so many years off the scene and so long without a real connection, it seems to me that one might very easily mistake affection and the re-awakening of desire for true love. Think back to your youth. Did you not think your first steady girlfriend was the most wonderful person you'd ever met? Your one true love? And How about a few years later? Did you still feel the same way? [[.....asking, with fingers crossed, in the hope that you didn't marry your high-school sweetheart.]

Even leaving aside the possible spouse-for-green card problem, it seems to me that it might be a good idea for you to think of your new relationship as an enjoy-the-now one, rather than as the forever kind. I really would urge you to relish your freedom for a little longer and have several different girlfriends before tying yourself down again. I don't think that a single male of your age is unlikely to have any difficulty in finding dates!

You've already had lots of 2X4s over the green card issue, so I'll try not to add to your pain. But I agree with almost everyone else. Be very, very wary. You may not consider your fortune to be large. But if your SO lives in poverty, to her it will seem a fortune. There's no harm in "rescuing" her if she is genuinely fond of you and will make you happy. But when you only see someone for short periods in a vacation situation it's easy to be loving. It's also easier to play a role. In many ways, if you seriously want to consider a future with her, then bringing her into your world for an extended period would be a good idea.

But if it is humanly possible, not until your son has set off for college. He needs you now and I believe that his needs have to take priority over your own for a while yet. He's very young and his mother has apparently more or less abandoned him. That's a terrible thing to happen to any child, even one who is in high school.

And if you do bring your girlfriend over for the 90 days, do not, NOT, make any long-term commitment beforehand. Just keep talking about having her stay for an extended vacation, or, if you must, of seeing how it goes. To do otherwise would be very foolish of you and also unfair to Miss Dream. For for you might very well find that in the real world, rather than the vacation paradise situation, the romantic dream fades a little. Or a lot. You really must leave yourself a get-out clause, in case you realize that you need it.

[This message edited by Cally60 at 7:34 AM, July 16th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 2113 | Registered: Mar 2009
pointmagnet
Member
Member # 16565
Default  Posted: 7:37 AM, July 16th (Tuesday)

With regard to why I am supporting a married couple: The WW made a deal with them to stay in our ”other” house and take care of the youngest boy. I didn’t go for the deal, but by the time I had gotten back from a business trip, everyone had been moved. So I just moved in with them, as I didn’t want to give my oldest son the responsibility of watching the youngest one all the time. I do ask them to pay a little rent each month, but the amount is insignificant in comparison to the place where we live.

One of the comments I got from my older son the other night was that he thinks I am living a “double standard.” He accepts that his mother is and has been screwing the OM, and thinks that it is reasonably wrong. But if I talk about my new friend, he absolutely freaks out. I think he is threatened by the fact that my friend is only 4 years older than his wife. (He’s 5 years younger than his wife)


Me (BS): 53
Her (WW): 51
Married: A long time
Children: Three of them
D-Day: 10/07/07; 12/15/12
Status: Done

Posts: 474 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: USA
Griefstricken25
Member
Member # 29183
Default  Posted: 7:41 AM, July 16th (Tuesday)

My thoughts, which are worth what you pay for them.

I think it's fine to live in a multi-family home, as you've chosen, but your married son should be paying an equal share of the costs, based on income. He has a SWEET deal right now and is taking advantage of your goodness. That's the first issue.

I think you're wise to proceed with caution with the girlfriend. Right now you should focus on your 17 year old and getting him through high school and "launched" into adulthood. Girlfriends/boyfriends should always take the backseat to the stability of minor children.

I disagree with the post about your SO being manipulative about saving sex for marriage though. (I know you didn't say this but someone else did). That's a highly unfair statement for those of us (and I know I'm a minority) who choose to only have sex within marriage. Your SO *might* be manipulative, but it's impossible to know that just from that one thing.


Me!
3 amazing kidlets
To WXH "Now you're just somebody that I used to know." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9NF2edxy-M
D-day and separation - June, 2009
Divorced - December, 2011

Posts: 2513 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: A better place
pointmagnet
Member
Member # 16565
Default  Posted: 7:48 AM, July 16th (Tuesday)

To answer a few more questions: I was never a big dater 30 years ago. Had a few girlfriends but nothing serious until I got railroaded by the WW...

The situation with my current friend is not always a vacation. I work 10-12 hrs a day on the island where she lives. We have a small dinner a couple times a week and sometimes she goes out to a bar with a group of us. She (or any other guests) is/are not allowed in the compound where we stay.

Occasionally we get away to the "big city" on the island for a weekend but that happens maybe once every month at most.

It's true I could be a little infatuated... From a purely physical standpoint, the WW has been a big flabby, smelly mess for the last 15 years or so. It's nice to date a pretty girl that is in shape and likes to dress up for me! What's wrong with that???

The thing I have gotten most out of all this discussion is to protect my youngest son and provide a safe haven for him to finish high school and start college, and that's where I will focus.


Me (BS): 53
Her (WW): 51
Married: A long time
Children: Three of them
D-Day: 10/07/07; 12/15/12
Status: Done

Posts: 474 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: USA
lieshurt
Member
Member # 14003
Default  Posted: 8:08 AM, July 16th (Tuesday)

I disagree with the post about your SO being manipulative about saving sex for marriage though. (I know you didn't say this but someone else did). That's a highly unfair statement for those of us (and I know I'm a minority) who choose to only have sex within marriage. Your SO *might* be manipulative, but it's impossible to know that just from that one thing.

I said it.

If the gf had said she'd only have sex after marriage, then no, I wouldn't see it at manipulative. However, in this case he said she said they'd have to at least be engaged. To me, that's the manipulative part. Either you believe in waiting until after marriage to have sex or you don't.


I'm sorry if you don't like my Honesty, but to be fair I don't like your lies.

Sometimes it's better to push someone away...not because you stopped loving them but because you can't take the pain anymore.


Posts: 13753 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Houston
pointmagnet
Member
Member # 16565
Default  Posted: 8:22 AM, July 16th (Tuesday)

Honestly I see the sex thing as not that manipulative. It's not like we don't get a little out of control while cuddling - we do and it's a struggle to not go all the way... (I have been the one to put on the brakes of late)

But we have talked about it very bluntly - she feels uncomfortable having sex with a technically still-married man, and to be honest, I am too. (even though my seemingly still teenage hormones tell me otherwise)

The one possibly manipulative thing that bothers me a bit is that she rather expects me to pay her $60 per month cell phone bill. It's probably not a big deal, especially when I am back in the states like now, but it does bother me a little...

[This message edited by pointmagnet at 8:23 AM, July 16th (Tuesday)]


Me (BS): 53
Her (WW): 51
Married: A long time
Children: Three of them
D-Day: 10/07/07; 12/15/12
Status: Done

Posts: 474 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: USA
lieshurt
Member
Member # 14003
Default  Posted: 8:29 AM, July 16th (Tuesday)

The one possibly manipulative thing that bothers me a bit is that she rather expects me to pay her $60 per month cell phone bill. It's probably not a big deal, especially when I am back in the states like now, but it does bother me a little...

This should bother you....more than a little too.


I'm sorry if you don't like my Honesty, but to be fair I don't like your lies.

Sometimes it's better to push someone away...not because you stopped loving them but because you can't take the pain anymore.


Posts: 13753 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Houston
ajsmom
Member
Member # 17460
Default  Posted: 8:49 AM, July 16th (Tuesday)

I think putting yourself on the hook for a 90-day Visa isn't wise. There are so many "what if's" in this scenario, from this and previous posts about her. Could she be looking for a USA-KISA? Possibly. Like others have said, no one here will truly know her motivation. That said, let’s just say things go south when she gets here. Have you thought about the “then what’s?” My understanding is you’d be responsible for her while she’s here for the entire 90 days, correct? What if she – or more importantly YOU – decides a month into things it isn’t going to work? What’s your plan?

Being roughly your age, my concern is more that you are seriously rushing the significance of this relationship. You first met her in March. Then (if I have the details correct) you were back in the US for three more months, just seeing her again right about now. IMO, you children’s concerns are very valid because they’re not seeing it through your lust filled eyes. They see their not yet divorced father head over heels for someone they don’t know, have never met and yes – her being 4 years younger than your oldest son would be a mind blowing freak out for anyone. Her insistence that you pay for her phone? Hmmm…no. That right there smacks of her need to date a wallet, my friend.

Look, I totally get the whole “she makes me feel new again” aspects of this. I also get the strong physical attraction as well. IMO, you’d be wise to just slow things down considerably. Perhaps see her when you go there next for work but keep things light. Get your divorce moving and off your plate and focus on your kids.

AJ's MOM


Fidelity isn't a feeling...it's a choice.

"Truth has no special time of its own. Its hour is now - always." - Albert Schweitzer
____________________________________________
Me: BW - Him: 200+ # tumor removed 7/09
DS - 31 - Yikes!


Posts: 21051 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: Been Through Hell...On My Way Back
pointmagnet
Member
Member # 16565
Default  Posted: 9:07 AM, July 16th (Tuesday)

Thanks for the input, but let's make some corrections...

I've known my friend since last November - started dating in late January/February.

She is 9 years older than my son (4 yrs older than DIL).

My approach will be like "fight club" around my family. First rule of SO is to not talk about SO. What happens in the Caribbean stays in the Caribbean from now on.


Me (BS): 53
Her (WW): 51
Married: A long time
Children: Three of them
D-Day: 10/07/07; 12/15/12
Status: Done

Posts: 474 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: USA
jennie160
Member
Member # 29949
Default  Posted: 9:13 AM, July 16th (Tuesday)

The one possibly manipulative thing that bothers me a bit is that she rather expects me to pay her $60 per month cell phone bill. It's probably not a big deal, especially when I am back in the states like now, but it does bother me a little...

Like someone else said, this should bother you. She is an adult, she chose to get into this relationship. She would have a cell phone bill if you weren't dating, granted it wouldn't be as high. That would be like me asking SO to put gas into my car every trip I make to his home. When going into a LDR I realized it would be costly (both financially and emotionally,)it was the price I chose to pay and I don't expect him to cover my share.

When you go out on dates and are together, do you find you are always picking up the tab? Does she pick up her share?


Posts: 921 | Registered: Oct 2010
Amazonia
Member
Member # 32810
Default  Posted: 9:28 AM, July 16th (Tuesday)

You've mentioned in inequity a few times, where your WW is "allowed" (presumably by the kids?) to date, but you are not.

Even young adults will deal with cognitive dissonance how they need to in order to survive. They may not like that their mother is dating, but she hasn't asked, and doesn't care for, their opinion on the matter. She is, in effect, driving them away and telling them that her selfish desires (OM) are more important to her than their opinion or her relationship with them. They have no choice but to accept it.

They likely feel safer expressing concerns to you than they would with her.

Shutting out their concerns or forcing SO on them when they are not ready will eventually put you in the same camp as your WW. They will stop trying to intervene, because they will stop thinking they matter to you.

Being a parent is a pretty thankless job. Most people step up and do it well anyway. Your kids currently feel safe enough to express their discomfort to you. Be careful minimizing or dismissing that.

And yes, the phone thing is not okay. Like the "my way or the highway" attitude that made you feel guilty about not wanting to go dancing (where you are uncomfortable) when you wanted to spend a quiet evening catching up, or the flower guilt trip that stressed that if you don't do what she wants, time will be limited for you. And the sexual innuendo but refusing to actually have sex, basically taunting you. No bueno, friend.

[This message edited by Amazonia at 9:31 AM, July 16th (Tuesday)]


"You yourself deserve your love and affection as much as anybody in the universe." -Buddha
"Let's face it, life is a crap shoot." -Sad in AZ

Posts: 13739 | Registered: Jul 2011
Griefstricken25
Member
Member # 29183
Default  Posted: 9:28 AM, July 16th (Tuesday)

The one possibly manipulative thing that bothers me a bit is that she rather expects me to pay her $60 per month cell phone bill. It's probably not a big deal, especially when I am back in the states like now, but it does bother me a little...

Yes, that sounds quite bothersome. You shouldn't be paying ANY of her bills, at this point. You can pay for dinners out and the entertainment you do while dating, but not her bills.


Me!
3 amazing kidlets
To WXH "Now you're just somebody that I used to know." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9NF2edxy-M
D-day and separation - June, 2009
Divorced - December, 2011

Posts: 2513 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: A better place
dead_inside
Member
Member # 3438
Default  Posted: 4:17 PM, July 16th (Tuesday)

remove personal info.

[This message edited by dead_inside at 10:03 AM, July 17th (Wednesday)]


Me: FORMER BW
Him: WXH


Posts: 756 | Registered: Feb 2004
hurtinky
Member
Member # 26152
Default  Posted: 6:17 PM, July 16th (Tuesday)

Your WW "railroaded" you into marrying, she was fat and stinky, and now you are stuck in this living situation that she set up, and to top it all off, she can screw whoever she wants but your kids are pissed that you want to date the manipulative beautiful Island Girl. And did you blame not being divorced on Fat & Stinky? Even though you could file any day of any week.

Victim much?

Dude. The least of your worries is The Flower Only Blooms So Long Island Girl. She is not the answer to your prayers or your reward for being so miserable for so long.

Have you ever had any counseling?


Me --> BS
D-Day 10-1988
D-Day 9-12-2005
S 9-13-2005
D 3-6-12



Posts: 1500 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Kentucky
pointmagnet
Member
Member # 16565
Default  Posted: 8:52 PM, July 16th (Tuesday)

Okay I have had it.

Hurtinky - I filed for divorce almost a fucking year ago and the fat blimp putrid sack of shit WW has been dragging her feet for some unknown reason. I offered her everything initially AND SHE DIDNT TAKE IT!

She's a total hoarder (like you see on TV) and I think she simply cannot let go of me even though I live 1100 miles away from her. She is fucked up.

On the other hand, my current SO is kind, caring, beautiful and fun to be with. We have the same interests - sports, current events, and more sports! I get it that my kids are not ready and I am too ready, so I am going to cool it while in the US, but what happens in the Islands stays in the Islands!

I have had counseling and the therapists always tell me this: Victim no more - live my life to the fullest! We are on this earth for only a short time so make the best of it.

(of course with the kids in mind...) And that is what I plan to do.


Me (BS): 53
Her (WW): 51
Married: A long time
Children: Three of them
D-Day: 10/07/07; 12/15/12
Status: Done

Posts: 474 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: USA
hurtinky
Member
Member # 26152
Default  Posted: 9:05 PM, July 16th (Tuesday)

Ok, cool, sorry, I misunderstood the divorce situation.

It just seems like it was yesterday that you were asking if you should let your buddy broker the introduction to this woman, and you decided it was too soon.

I guess my personal opinion is, dating and especially getting serious with someone, is not wise when you have a lot of other issues. And you have them: an unfinished divorce and you are clearly bogged down in anger, your living situation, your minor son still needs launching. I just don't see where adding a woman who needs a visa and who isn't too much older than your son to mix will help.

Yes, life is short, but that doesn't mean do whatever feels good. I still think you are operating from a place of feeling like a victim. Now you are rewarding yourself for having been one, it seems. Just my opinion, take it or leave it.


Me --> BS
D-Day 10-1988
D-Day 9-12-2005
S 9-13-2005
D 3-6-12



Posts: 1500 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Kentucky
pointmagnet
Member
Member # 16565
Default  Posted: 9:18 PM, July 16th (Tuesday)

I recognize I have anger issues, but I have been trying to move on gracefully for over a year now and there has been no progress at all.

Just for clarity - I was so sick of the marriage that in March 2012 I offered the WW ALL of my retirement/401K savings, ALL 3 of the homes we owned, plus ALL of our possessions and liquid assets, JUST TO LET ME GO!

And she turned it down.

How can I not be upset? She doesn't want to be divorced (even though she fucks every man within 100 miles of her place) and I cannot do ANYTHING to speed it along.

So I accidentally end up with a wonderful girlfriend and now I'm the bad guy??? WTF?

I GET IT. IT'S TOO SOON FOR THE KIDS, even though two thirds of them are adults.

Yeah I'm a victim, but I've been a victim for 30 years and I'm tired of it.


Me (BS): 53
Her (WW): 51
Married: A long time
Children: Three of them
D-Day: 10/07/07; 12/15/12
Status: Done

Posts: 474 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: USA
hurtinky
Member
Member # 26152
Default  Posted: 10:09 PM, July 16th (Tuesday)

I don't think you've exactly established yet that your SO is wonderful. She could be but she could also be your worst nightmare. From what I've read about her, she isn't perfect and you probably should slow it down.

No one is saying you are the bad guy. We are just pointing out some things that you might want to think about.

Your WW turned down your offer, that's crazy, but can't you proceed, go on to court and let a judge figure it out? Sounds like you will come out better that way too, because your offer was more generous than a standard equitable split.


Me --> BS
D-Day 10-1988
D-Day 9-12-2005
S 9-13-2005
D 3-6-12



Posts: 1500 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Kentucky
FaithFool
Member
Member # 20150
Default  Posted: 10:28 PM, July 16th (Tuesday)

Thoughts??? - Feel free to bring a 2x4 if you think it's needed!

Point, I think you asked for honest opinions and that's what you're getting here.

Your anger and bitterness is pretty overwhelming and quite understandable given the situation.

I hope you can process all of that and not take it into your new relationship.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do. Is the daughter going to come and visit as well?


DDay: June 15, 2008
Mistakenly married Mr. Superfreak
20 years of OWs, WTF?
Divorced Dec 26, 2011
"Life is a shipwreck, but we must not forget
to sing in the lifeboats". -- Voltaire

Posts: 17390 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: Canada
hurtinky
Member
Member # 26152
Default  Posted: 5:14 AM, July 17th (Wednesday)

Now really, how does anyone "accidentally" end up with a girlfriend?


Me --> BS
D-Day 10-1988
D-Day 9-12-2005
S 9-13-2005
D 3-6-12



Posts: 1500 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Kentucky
lieshurt
Member
Member # 14003
Default  Posted: 7:12 AM, July 17th (Wednesday)

So I accidentally end up with a wonderful girlfriend and now I'm the bad guy???

I don't believe anybody thinks you are a bad guy PM. What I do believe is that people have genuine concern for you and your situation. Without a doubt, people are concerned about this woman's intentions. What I'm seeing is that you are flattered by the attention of a pretty, young girl which is an improvement over your WW. You really haven't spent enough time with this woman to know if she is relationship material or even truly sincere where you are concerned. You like the attention and that is understandable. However, step back and truly look at this situation. There are a lot of things to take into consideration, most especially your son. Inconnu and her SO are a fine example of how to handle a new relationship and how it impacts kids. It may seem like you are making all of the sacrifices, but in the long run, you'll be glad you did.

(((PM)))


I'm sorry if you don't like my Honesty, but to be fair I don't like your lies.

Sometimes it's better to push someone away...not because you stopped loving them but because you can't take the pain anymore.


Posts: 13753 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Houston
pointmagnet
Member
Member # 16565
Default  Posted: 9:22 AM, July 17th (Wednesday)

Ok sorry for getting a little pissed yesterday. Feeling better now.

More clarification: "Accidental" means that I met my friend when she was working at the compound where we stay. My co-worker and I would see her every day... Eventually he said something like, "hey that woman is interested in you."

So I replied, "what, are you crazy?"

He wouldn't let it rest and invites her out for an evening with us. Then he invites her along to the companion island for a weekend. I was not looking for anything, but it turned out she is fun to be with... And then a few months later, things kind of stepped up to the next level. So it was accidental.

My daughter, her husband and I are taking a Florida vacation in September. No talk of SO will occur before or during that time.

On the divorce side, the court is slower than molasses in the city where the WW lives. It could eventually happen this year, but I will be surprised if it does.

[This message edited by pointmagnet at 9:23 AM, July 17th (Wednesday)]


Me (BS): 53
Her (WW): 51
Married: A long time
Children: Three of them
D-Day: 10/07/07; 12/15/12
Status: Done

Posts: 474 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: USA
pointmagnet
Member
Member # 16565
Default  Posted: 9:45 PM, July 17th (Wednesday)

Wow I had a turn of events today that was certainly not expected...

I'm having a stressful time at work... Lots of phone calls, lots of distractions...

My friend and I share texts through the day usually - just how's your day going, what's the weather like, etc...

For some reason today I was being my usual mid-day polite yet not passionate self and it triggered something in her to indicate that I don't understand what a woman needs. (and to be honest with you, after today, I obviously don't know what the hell a woman needs from 2500 miles away at high noon.)

And after a reasonably pleasant exchange this evening I said I had to go eat dinner (my son had prepared a nice homemade pizza) and all of a sudden I am cold and non feeling... (which may be accurate but I was just trying to get away from the damn cell phone and interact with the people that are 25 feet away, not 2500 miles away...)

So now she says that I need some space (not her) and no contact until I am back down in the Caribbean next week.

Once again (honestly), that's fine with me because I hate cell phones now more than ever and I don't want to pay a fucking bill for arguing anyway...

I give up.


Me (BS): 53
Her (WW): 51
Married: A long time
Children: Three of them
D-Day: 10/07/07; 12/15/12
Status: Done

Posts: 474 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: USA
Amazonia
Member
Member # 32810
Default  Posted: 10:01 PM, July 17th (Wednesday)

(((pm)))

Just out of curiosity, whose idea was it that you pay the cell phone bill? How did that start happening exactly?

Today's events would be a big red flag were I in your shoes. Either of incompatibility between the two of you or of manipulation on her part. It sounds like she is making some pretty high demands of you - choose her over your son, prioritize her over your job, etc. Texting throughout the day is a great, whether in LDR or otherwise, but it shouldn't be your primary form of communication, and it should be understood that it's not your focus. If you're texting, you're probably both doing something else at the same time (like working...or is that just me? ), and that you might need to go quiet at any time if that other thing requires your attention.

Do you have a dedicated time for really connecting? Talking on the phone or skype? Having each other's undivided attention on a regular basis, whether nightly or weekly or whatever works for you?


"You yourself deserve your love and affection as much as anybody in the universe." -Buddha
"Let's face it, life is a crap shoot." -Sad in AZ

Posts: 13739 | Registered: Jul 2011
pointmagnet
Member
Member # 16565
Default  Posted: 10:56 PM, July 17th (Wednesday)

The cell phone thing was my idea... 60 bucks a month is pretty insignificant compared to the cash I dole out to my WW every month...

And I am starting to think that the two worlds my friend and I live in are just way too different.

She has no internet at her house. In fact, she has no indoor toilet... (an issue my grandfather took care of about 100 years ago on the farm in Wisconsin!)

And she wants me to drop everything and text madly with her on a moment's notice??? To be honest, that is ridiculous. My work requires attention to the customer's needs during normal work hours, not my girlfriend's needs! Honestly, how can someone not understand that??? (my WW had that issue too :/)

Whatever happens, I will fill everyone in here, because this is apparently a pretty good story so far. I head down to the Caribbean next Monday, so by Wednesday it should either be completely over or maybe on the mend.

Who knows.

edit: Oh and by the way, things with my kids are pretty much just fine because I have shut my mouth about my love life (or lack thereof) and they like that! So we're cool there.

[This message edited by pointmagnet at 10:59 PM, July 17th (Wednesday)]


Me (BS): 53
Her (WW): 51
Married: A long time
Children: Three of them
D-Day: 10/07/07; 12/15/12
Status: Done

Posts: 474 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: USA
lieshurt
Member
Member # 14003
Default  Posted: 6:51 AM, July 18th (Thursday)

So now she says that I need some space (not her) and no contact until I am back down in the Caribbean next week.

I find this to be a manipulative tactic as well. Don't fall for it PM.


I'm sorry if you don't like my Honesty, but to be fair I don't like your lies.

Sometimes it's better to push someone away...not because you stopped loving them but because you can't take the pain anymore.


Posts: 13753 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Houston
cissi
Member
Member # 21737
Default  Posted: 3:16 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

I just spent the last hour thinking of nothing but your situation. I see nothing good coming out of this. I think you should do some Internet research on these sorts of scams, because try as I might, I can't see this as anything other than that.

What I see happening is she might come over here for 3 months - no sex of course because she has that moral thing going on - except for the last day or so of her trip. That's the bait.

I don't know if she is planning on really moving where you are, but I don't think she is. I think you will eventually starting getting sad, sad stories about her financial situation and you will start sending her money (if you haven't already), and, of course, you will feel obligated to help because she did in fact have that sex with you, which means she definitely wants to be in a marriage with you (that moral thing again).

She is going to suck you dry.

On the other hand, maybe she will move here. Maybe she will treat you well for the rest of your lives together. I'd say there is probably a 1% chance of that.

If you are serious about this woman, I would definitely get a PI on her where she lives. What is the worst that could happen from that? You either find out she is the real deal, or you find out she is not.

Again, please do some research on this sort of thing. You sound like too nice a guy to have something like this happen to you.

Oh, and the little incident you had with her over texting? I think it will lead up to her not wanting you to come to her country next week - maybe something else is going on with her then, perhaps a different American is coming at the same time.

I'm sorry to be so blunt, really I am. It's the world we live in now, though, and a person needs to be on their game at all times. It sounds like you have had enough grief in your life already.


Posts: 1411 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Southern California
wonderingbull
Member
Member # 14833
Default  Posted: 4:17 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

PM...

I've done quite a bit of traveling to the islands and to central america...

My buddies and I have mingled with the local women with my buddies "picking up" dates as such...

Let me tell you... My buddies spoil these women with good food, good drinks and good times... Things they don't get normally because of their socioeconomic status...

These guys come back to the states and the women are highly skilled at trying to reel these guys in with needing "help"... Be it a cellphone payment... Medical bills...(add endless neediness here)

One guy even bought a computer, iphone and a boob job for one woman...

Just my opinion based on seeing dozens and dozens of these third world country intereactions is... She's playing you...

As soon as she senses she's loosing your attention she'll yank your chain... Such as the texting... Don't worry, she won't just drop your ass unless she's got an eager newcomer...

This is the way it works... They chum the water... Pick a likely target... Get treated in ways they can't afford... See if she can work the system to "escape" from her third world existence...

Dude, I've laughed so many times at my buddies who fell for the schtick... It's always cost them money....

One buddy forwarded an e-mail from a woman he wined and dined in Costa Rica that was asking for money for her poor daughter....

He simply wrote back...

Rent must be due in Tamarindo huh girl?

Sounds like you can afford the fun but take it for what it is... Company when you're out on a beautiful island... Don't let the land shark eat your wallet...

You could be any guy to her, as long as you're a potential ticket out...

JMHO

WB


The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time...

James Taylor


Posts: 5976 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: A better place
Hopeful Lady
Member
Member # 30441
Default  Posted: 5:09 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

PM, I don't know if she's being manipulative or not. The no sex issue is not necessarily manipulation- in some cultures no sex outside marriage is the norm and those that may push that norm might at least wait until they are engaged. So I don't see that as a problem. The cellphone bill is troubling but her reactions today sound most odd.

She may be a wonderful person...or not. We don't know but until you know for sure, I would just take it slow and get to know her and more about her not just from your direct interactions with her but also from others who have known her longer. If you can get a PI to find some info on her even better.

Being in a miserable marriage for a long time is draining and I understand your need to feel desirable again. If I was starting to date before divorce was finalized and I'd had some time on my own to sort out my own self, I would be taking in VERY slowly. If someone is right for you they will understand.


Posts: 112 | Registered: Dec 2010
hurtinky
Member
Member # 26152
Default  Posted: 7:20 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

She may not be looking for a one way trip to the USA, but one thing is certain; she's a demanding brat.

The gotta go dancing thing, now this bit of unreasonableness. Clearly she's into getting her way.

If you continue to see her, expect it to get worse. She's figured out that you are mesmerized by her beauty and she's working it, because she's like that.


Me --> BS
D-Day 10-1988
D-Day 9-12-2005
S 9-13-2005
D 3-6-12



Posts: 1500 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Kentucky
pointmagnet
Member
Member # 16565
Default  Posted: 2:54 PM, August 3rd (Saturday)

Wow you guys turned out to be pretty correct...

My friend has been very moody of late and last night she hits me with "if you were a real man, you'd just give me money for my expenses because you know I need it."

i.e. "If you just bailed me out, I wouldn't need to have an adult discussion with you about why I quit my job(s) and now am pretty much destitute except for the little shack I live in..."

And then she basically said good bye, with a couple of follow-up texts later about how I need to man-up and live my own life for once...

You guys were so right.. :(

But on the plus side, she bled me for less in 9 months knowing her than my WW will in one month after the spousal support order goes through!

So live and learn I suppose.

[This message edited by pointmagnet at 3:01 PM, August 3rd (Saturday)]


Me (BS): 53
Her (WW): 51
Married: A long time
Children: Three of them
D-Day: 10/07/07; 12/15/12
Status: Done

Posts: 474 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: USA
persevere
Member
Member # 31468
Default  Posted: 3:03 PM, August 3rd (Saturday)

Live and learn pm - at least you figured it out before you were in deeper than a cell bill.


Me: BW-44
Him: XWH-44
Together 9 yrs
DDays: 1/10/2011
Status: Divorced 4/27/11

Above all, be the heroine, not the victim. - Nora Ephron

It is our choices...that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities.
- J. K. Rowling


Posts: 4516 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: Texas
Tearsoflove
Member
Member # 8271
Default  Posted: 3:13 PM, August 3rd (Saturday)

My personal feelings is that you are a grown adult who is entitled to make his own mistakes with his money. Your son and daughter-in-law have been getting an awful lot out of living with you (Jeez, they even get the master bedroom- rent free...). Whether or not this woman was using you for your money is up to you and it's really your problem. But they shouldn't be able to make decisions like that for you and given that you let both your son and your DIL live in your home doesn't make them the rulers of it. If you wanted to bring the woman for a visit, that should have been your decision. Let them move out. You're already footing the bill so it's not like you'd be losing much.

My bet, though, is that they'd have just dealt with it. Even a 26-year-old knows a cushy good deal when he's got one and boy have you given him one...

And just because that particular woman turned out to be about money, doesn't mean you won't have this same issue the next time you meet somebody. If I were you, I'd sit down and have a chat with my son about ultimatums and the fact that you are an adult and will be making your own decisions whether he likes it or not.

[This message edited by Tearsoflove at 3:16 PM, August 3rd (Saturday)]


"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand." ~Homer Simpson


Posts: 4089 | Registered: Sep 2005
lieshurt
Member
Member # 14003
Default  Posted: 3:20 PM, August 3rd (Saturday)

And then she basically said good bye, with a couple of follow-up texts later about how I need to man-up and live my own life for once

I hope you've blocked her number and email Pointmagnet.


I'm sorry if you don't like my Honesty, but to be fair I don't like your lies.

Sometimes it's better to push someone away...not because you stopped loving them but because you can't take the pain anymore.


Posts: 13753 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Houston
Amazonia
Member
Member # 32810
Default  Posted: 3:24 PM, August 3rd (Saturday)

I hope you've gone ahead and cut off the cell phone!

Sorry it had to end this way. For your sake, I was hoping we were all wrong. But good job keeping your own healthy boundaries and knowing that you deserve better!


"You yourself deserve your love and affection as much as anybody in the universe." -Buddha
"Let's face it, life is a crap shoot." -Sad in AZ

Posts: 13739 | Registered: Jul 2011
Topic Posts: 53