SurvivingInfidelity.com Forums
Reconciliation
User Topic: Tried to talk last night to Wbf
Lonelygirl10
Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 7:28 AM, July 18th (Thursday)

I've been feeling sad a lot lately, but trying to hold in my feelings because I know that he feels guilty. After reading some of the success stories here and the healing library, I decided to try to tell him last night how I was feeling. I waited until we got into bed, and I did it in a very calm way. I was soft spoken, crying a little, and just tried to tell him that I keep seeing the images in my head and that I feel sad. I also asked him if he could tell me what he was thinking or feeling when it happened.

He was holding me, and he moved away. He said that he doesn't understand why I keep bringing it up. So I tried to explain that I had read some stuff saying that it was good to talk, and that I needed him to talk to me. He said that everyone deals with things differently. And also said that he doesn't see what bringing it up does to help. He said that he feels guilty, and there's no more answers that he can give me. He said that there's no right answer to a question like how he was feeling at the time, and that talking about it just makes it worse. He wants us to put it behind us, and move forward. Focus on the positive. I ended up apologizing, and we went to sleep.

How do I handle this? It's been four months since he confessed. He was great at answering questions at first, but now I think he expects things to be better. I told him that it can take 1-2 years, and he said that everyone moves at their own pace and I shouldn't rely on what I read on the internet. What should I tell him the next time I'm feeling sad? How do I handle it since he feels guilty? He said that he feels like I'm throwing the affair in his face every week or two to make him feel bad. That's not my intention, but I don't know how to make him see that.


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1164 | Registered: Jul 2013
karmahappens
Member
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 7:37 AM, July 18th (Thursday)

He said that there's no right answer to a question like how he was feeling at the time, and that talking about it just makes it worse

The right answer is the truth...even if it hurts you. The non-communication and his disregard for your pain are more hurtful than any truth he could share.

He needs to understand that this is not about HIM. Right now all the focus should be on you.

Unfortunate it is that his actions made him feel guilty. He should feel guilty and he should have the courage to face that guilt and listen to you, your pain and your questions, over and over again.

I would suggest you never apologize again for needing answers. He cannot just shut you up to make it go away.

Are you/he in IC? He needs to figure out why he allowed himself to cheat and how he got to where he is, and he needs to fix it.

Don't let this go, or you will be back here again...

Let him know, in order to heal you need to process your feelings, the pain and the trauma that he has brought into your relationship.

This is a long road ....ask him if he is willing to do the work. If he isn't, I would not even attempt to R.

Stand up for yourself. YOU did nothing wrong and he shoulders the responsibility of your pain. He needs to own it.

(((hugs)))


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaďs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3800 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
hotcoffee
Member
Member # 39700
Default  Posted: 8:34 AM, July 18th (Thursday)

Lonely, I'm sorry that you felt you needed to apologize. He thinks you should just get over it and move on and even though he can see that you are not over it, he's not trying to help you. You did nothing at all wrong, while he did several bad things. Try to remember that.

He should feel guilty. He should be transparent about his actions today and open and honest about his actions in the past. He should be working to help you get through this. If he doesn't do that, he gets a sad you and that is his fault too.

Sorry if this sounds harsh but reconciliation is not easy and your wbf needs to show you patience and understanding.


Posts: 59 | Registered: Jun 2013
Lonelygirl10
Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 8:44 AM, July 18th (Thursday)

We did couples' counseling immediately after, when I was trying to decide whether to stay or leave. He does not have insurance though, so we had to stop going. I am still doing individual counseling. He read a book recommended by our counselor (Not Just Friends).

I don't know how to make him see that I'm not trying to punish him or throw the affair in his face when I ask questions about it.

He's an insecure person. We discussed lots of reasons why he cheated in counseling. He was scared of getting hurt by me, and he used it as a barrier almost. Also, I think he seeks attention when he's feeling alone. Lately I've been feeling like I have to reassure him that I love him and want to be with him. I almost feel like I have to take care of him. I feel guilty when I bring up the affair, because I know it hurts him to talk about it.

I don't know how to deal with my feelings of being sad, and also deal with the guilt of making him feel bad when I talk about it. I know rationally that I shouldn't feel guilty, but it's almost like I want to take care of him.


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1164 | Registered: Jul 2013
still2suspicious
Member
Member # 31722
Default  Posted: 10:42 AM, July 18th (Thursday)

LG,

Until HE truly understands the healing process you will never have true R. And I am so sorry for that.

My H was just like your WBF, (as many WS are). They figure they answered a few questions, told you all they are gonna, and THEY are able to quickly move forward. So why aren't we?

I asked questions for 3 yrs, before MC. He would answer (yell), we'd argue, and then I would apologize!! I would feel guilty, scared I "pushed HIM too far", all that shit. Now I know I did it all wrong. I didn't push hard enough! I didn't demand more! (in my defense I didn't find SI till 2 yrs past DDay).

In MC I was able to ask the same questions, but definitely more calmly. With MC's help H "got" the healing process, at least most of it. But we also went for 6 months.

If he read NJF, and truly wants to grow from here, then he should know the process. Maybe you two need to re-read it together, go over each section, discuss it, until YOU are satisfied he gets it?

PLEASE work towards standing up for yourself! DON'T let him bully you into rug sweeping. B/C right now that is all he is doing, sweetie. Trying to make it easiest on himself, not YOU!

YOU DESERVE MORE! YOU deserve to have him do all that YOU need to make it thru this shitstorm.

Are you truly in R? Right now I would have to say no. And I am sorry for that. This is just the beginning, and you are right, it is gonna take YEARS to work thru this. Good news is it can be done!

Sending hugs and strength.

[This message edited by still2suspicious at 10:42 AM, July 18th (Thursday)]


Me: BS
Him: WH
DDay: LTEA

Posts: 1284 | Registered: Apr 2011 | From:
Markone
Member
Member # 30291
Default  Posted: 10:55 AM, July 18th (Thursday)

^^^^^
This

In the aftermath of DD, many of us BS' feel that it is US that needs to change, US who have to tread lightly, US who have to lead R.

It's natural - you don't want to drive him away, feel like you're always focusing on the negative, he'll get sick of me etc etc etc

So what happens? you allow him to sweep it aside (of course it's hard for him to talk about ...but, shit, harder for you to experience) and these feelings will not go away, they will fester. They will make R very difficult. In a few months, you'll see him laughing and joking and you'll get resentful, bitter and angry. "How can he move on while I'm still struggling?"

R cannot be done by one person, nor independently. He needs to understand that for you to heal, he has to participate. It has to be a joint effort.

If he can't participate in the biggest issue to face you as a couple yet, how can you expect him to be your partner for life?



DD 11/28/10
Me (BH)
Her (WS)
Separated and filed (7/13)

Posts: 413 | Registered: Dec 2010
Lonelygirl10
Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 11:11 AM, July 18th (Thursday)

It's natural - you don't want to drive him away, feel like you're always focusing on the negative, he'll get sick of me etc etc etc

That's exactly how I feel. He cheated because he was insecure about how I felt about him. He's told me recently that he feels insecure that I'm going to leave him. So I feel like I have to be the one to constantly reassure him, because I'm terrified that he'll cheat again if I don't. He swears that he's learned his lesson, and he could never do that again to me. But if his insecurity is what caused it, then what happens now when he's feeling insecure?

How did you both get your WS to understand that you needed to talk about it? I tried last night, and all he said was that we should focus on moving forward instead of staying in the past. I'm considering writing an email to put all my feelings out there. Do you think that would help?

I want him to understand that I'm not intentionally focusing on the past. If I could forget it happened, I would gladly do that. The images just pop into my head. He was married previously, and ex cheated on him before the marriage. He said that he forgave her within a week after he found out, and didn't focus on it. I think he expects me to respond the same way he did in that situation.


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1164 | Registered: Jul 2013
doesitgetbetter
Member
Member # 18429
Default  Posted: 11:22 AM, July 18th (Thursday)

That's exactly how I feel. He cheated because he was insecure about how I felt about him. He's told me recently that he feels insecure that I'm going to leave him. So I feel like I have to be the one to constantly reassure him, because I'm terrified that he'll cheat again if I don't. He swears that he's learned his lesson, and he could never do that again to me. But if his insecurity is what caused it, then what happens now when he's feeling insecure?

Everytime you feed his need to be reassured, it's like you are giving a heroin addict some heroin. Would you consider giving an addict his drug of choice helping, or hurting? He has damage, that damage manifests itself in his insecurity, and he feeds that insecurity by being needy and needing external validation. You are helping him treat the symptom instead of the wound. HE has to go to IC to find that wound and heal it himself. Until he does, you'll NEVER be able to convince him enough that you'll stay, and that he's worthy, and that he's good enough, etc. The more you feed him that stuff, the more of a bottomless pit he'll be, and the more validation he'll need to seek from others, and the more affairs he'll have to get that validation.

He didn't truly forgive his wife after just a week and then never bring it up. He squarely rug swept the entire thing and chose to not deal with it at all. I don't think it worked at all, because look at how damaged he is now.... he has allowed himself to become the cheater. How's that workin for him?

I hate to correct you, but it takes 2-5 years to heal from infidelity when both parties are working at it. Even then, it could be less or more depending on the person's involved. I was on the 5 year plan, and I had a wonderfully remorseful, model FWH by my side the entire time. Didn't make my healing any faster though. But my H dealt with it each and every day, took responsibility for what he had done, and his motto became "whatever you need to heal from this, I will do for you".

Lastly, yes, everyone DOES heal in different ways and at different times. When he says this next time, then tell him "well this is what I need to heal, are you willing to help me heal or not? If not, there is the door".


DDay - Dec '07
Me - BS
Him - FWS
Us - Committed
May 18, 2010 - I forgave him fully!
"Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction." Isaiah 48:10

Posts: 3859 | Registered: Feb 2008
Lonelygirl10
Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 11:42 AM, July 18th (Thursday)

We are talking on text message now while at work. I suggested going back to MC, and he said that he can't afford it.

I told him that I feel like we are smiling at each other and kissing, but that there's a barrier between us. I tried explaining that I don't want to sweep it under the rug, that I want to deal with it so we can be closer. His reply was "You asked me questions I've answered a million times. I haven't swept anything under the rug. You can tell me how you feel...but why bring up events and specifics?"

How do I explain this so he can understand?


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1164 | Registered: Jul 2013
Lonelygirl10
Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 12:06 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

So, some of his other comments:

"Only time can heal... you know all the answers and they don't change. Talking about it requires me to feel like I need to apologize"

"There are different ways of handling things. You research everything, read endless articles, post on forums. Others deal with it individually. It's like you want to keep reliving it."

"We've talked about it for 4 months and its always the same thing. I'm trying here. There has to be a point to move on from that stage."

What do I do? I don't know what to say to him. I told him that I need to feel safe to ask the hard questions, and I need him to know that I'm doing it to seek comfort, not to punish him. I told him to think about whether he can give that to me or not. I feel so sad today.


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1164 | Registered: Jul 2013
heartache101
Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 12:14 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

Lonelygirl10

Fine a therapist that deals in infidelity. First off.

Then you tell him to have a great future which you know in your heart that the two of you can have together you need to find a way to communicate and go to this therapist..
Honey you have to communicate for a relationship to work. He needs to be willingly to put your feelings ahead of his own and help you heal. He needs to understand what he has done so he does not do it again.


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3187 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
Schilling
Member
Member # 39774
Default  Posted: 12:18 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

Lonelygirl10,

No advice here other then look for a Talk Therapist who works on a sliding scale and deals with infidelity.

Otherwise, I just wanted to say that I understand what you are going through, as my Wbf says the same things.


I am 26(Bgf). He is 36 (Wbf).
On Again, Off Again - 10 years.
Not Married. No Kids.
D-Day: Too many to list/ remember.
Trying to Reconcile.

Posts: 103 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: San Francisco
Markone
Member
Member # 30291
Default  Posted: 12:31 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

LG,
I'm following your thread because I made the mistakes I am now "warning" you against. I heard the same sentiments:

"I want to put it behind me"

" I've told you everything"

" It's not working for me to keep talking about the A"

"I feel guilty already, I don't need to be reminded"

Notice anything? all about "I" or "me"

After feeling like it was useless to try to talk, I gave up. Rugswept myself and things were "great"...for a while (but take note of my salutation below.)

Rugsweeping doesn't work.

And think of it this way...again, if sharing your concerns, emotions makes him uncomfortable, do you want to be married to this man without him making the necessary changes? Do you want to be a doormat for your entire marriage? That is what he is trying to do to you right now (despite his words, despite your love for him, despite, despite, despite....but remember, actions speak louder than words.

Ok, you get the point. And I should stop here for fear of crossing the line in the R forum, but please please consider the advice you're getting from members like karmahappens, still2suspicious -- it's all given in the spirit of wanting you to be successful in R (if that's your choice) not to persuade you against it.

There's also something called "Joseph's Letter" in the Healing Library. It's great to use as a guide in telling him how you feel. And yes, if email eworks better, writing a letter can be very effective.

Best wishes, LG. (((hugs))



DD 11/28/10
Me (BH)
Her (WS)
Separated and filed (7/13)

Posts: 413 | Registered: Dec 2010
still2suspicious
Member
Member # 31722
Default  Posted: 1:04 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

Sweetie,

He is giving you the words out the the "Cheater's Handbook"! (and I am sure he didn't study it!! )

They ALL say the same shit!

"Look forward, not back"
"I told you everything already"
WHY do you keep asking the same questions"

I am livid for you, as I lived that from 2009 till this year!!

Bottom line: It's NOT about HIM!!!!!! It's about YOU! He did NOT get over his ex's cheating. He swept it up in a shit pile under the rug as fast as you can blink. Why? B/c he was too afraid (and didn't know how) to deal with it.

But the fact that HE cheated on you shows just how deep he was effected by it. The fact that all he wants YOU to do is "move forward" (gd I HATE that phrase!!!) shows that he learned nothing from it either.

Please find a MC that deals with infidelity, not just your average MC. If they did not get any training, in this very f'd area, then they would not be much more help than you. It takes a lot of experience to help a couple wade thru this shitstorm. And if all the learning they had was a chapter in a book it ain't gonna be enough to help you.

It's just gonna take a lot of work on HIS part. Is he up to it? Only he knows the answer to that.

To give you hope (I know all has been hard to read so far) we did R'd. The EA is not the first thing I wake up to, nor the last thing I go to bed with.

Sending strength.


Me: BS
Him: WH
DDay: LTEA

Posts: 1284 | Registered: Apr 2011 | From:
Lonelygirl10
Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 1:16 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

Thank you for all the support. It helps me to feel less alone. My friends are not supportive of me trying to work things out, so I'm mostly alone dealing with all this.

I know that talking in text messages is bad, but I'm having a bad day after last night. I told him that I need to be able to talk about things in a safe environment, and that my needs should come first right now because he's the one that caused all my horrible feelings. I also told him that this is a hard conversation to have, because I'm scared of forcing the issue and making him be distant. When we were in MC, we discovered that he distances himself on purpose when he's feeling attacked, to make the woman work harder for his affection and "prove" her love. Anyway, his response was:

"Last night wasn't about me putting my needs over your needs. You asked me what was going through my head when it happened and I've already told you. I feel like you are beating me up when I've already apologized so much. I've done nothing but try to be an open book to you, be sweet, caring and put you first. Yes its okay for you to not have forgotten about it... And I'm sorry I did it. But I don't want to constantly feel like I'm going to lose you or I have to explain everything over and over and apologize over and over. You know I'm here for you. You know I'm sorry and I'm willing to help you when you're down. But I can't change the past and that is what you want me to do."

I read Joseph's Letter on the healing forum. I like the way it starts out. In his defense, he did answer the questions in the first couple months. But it's like he thinks I should be over it now, or I'm bringing it up to punish him. I talked to my IC a couple weeks ago about whether my negativity is causing problems, and she challenged me to just focus on the good. So I did that, and we had a good two weeks. But then I started thinking about things again, and it led to last night's conversation.

I'd love to go back to MC. We had a great counselor that focuses on infidelity, but we had to quit because he doesn't have insurance. I suggested going back, and he's said no. I think he was also getting frustrated because she was talking about whether it was worth it to try to make it work since we're not married.


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1164 | Registered: Jul 2013
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 2:21 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

Being betrayed is a trauma..he has traumatized you.

You ask questions over and over..the same ones..because that is how the brain processes trauma.

Um..he doesn't like you bringing it up because then he feels the need to apologize? He should be apologizing...several times a day.

The fact that he answered questions the first few months is ok..but here's the problem..you were in shock. It takes a BS a few months to grasp what has happened(usually). So any questions you asked and he answered need to be re-asked, because you probably don't remember much.

What is he doing to show you he wants to R?

Was he tested for STD's? Did you see the results?

Is he transparent? Do you have full access to all of his online accounts..all forums,emails,facebook,etc..and his cell..passwords too? Did he give those willingly?

Is he open and honest at all times?

Is he accountable for his time away from you?

Did he write a NC email to the OW,and you sent it..so you know it was sent?

He should be willing to answer all of your questions without blame,anger,or defensiveness. For as long as you need to ask them.

Is he reading any self help books? Is he willing to post on the wayward forum here on SI?

He wants to rugsweep. It takes 3-5 years to heal from infidelity...and that's with a remorseful,supportive WS. He clearly doesn't grasp the full gravity of what he has done.

There is a great thread on the wayward forum by HUFI-PUFI.."Things that every wayward spouse needs to know." Print that off and ask him to read it..and sit with him while he reads it. It is VERY accurate and explains how and why a BS is feeling/acting the way they do.

Im so sorry he's not getting it. But I can tell you..trying to R with a WS who doesn't get it..is Hell.

Yes..everyone heals differently. But what if you're on the 5 year plan. Is he willing and able ride this roller coaster he's put you on? If not,honey,I promise you,it's better to get out now..before you get hurt anymore..before you become pregnant..or he give you an irreversible STD.

[This message edited by confused615 at 2:23 PM, July 18th (Thursday)]


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,10
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7413 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
Lonelygirl10
Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 2:38 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

Was he tested for STD's? Did you see the results?

Is he transparent? Do you have full access to all of his online accounts..all forums,emails,facebook,etc..and his cell..passwords too? Did he give those willingly?

Is he open and honest at all times?

Is he accountable for his time away from you?

Did he write a NC email to the OW,and you sent it..so you know it was sent?

He should be willing to answer all of your questions without blame,anger,or defensiveness. For as long as you need to ask them.

Is he reading any self help books? Is he willing to post on the wayward forum here on SI?

To answer your questions, he was fully tested for STDs, and he's clean.

He allows me to look at his phone whenever I want to, but I don't have passwords. I never asked for passwords, because I feel guilty asking for that. I'm not sure why.. maybe because I don't want to give him my password? For the same reason, he doesn't know that I post on here. I feel like this is my safe place, where I can post my fears without him reading. He often feels like I'm attacking him, and I'm sure he would feel that way if he read this forum. Is my reaction to that wrong?

He is accountable for his time. He sends me pictures of where he's at. A huge trigger for me is him going to his dad's house. Every time he told me he was going to his dad's house December-April, he was with her. It was his go-to excuse, because I never questioned the reasonableness of it. So I usually have panic attacks when he says he's going there. He'll text me a picture of his dad or the house. It somewhat helps, but I'm also smart enough to know he could be sending me old pictures. I don't know how to handle that.

He started MC with me, but can't afford it. He read the first few chapters of Just Not Friends immediately, but I don't think he finished it. His excuse for not finishing it was that he spent all his time with me, which was true. We just recently started spending days apart again, and maybe that's what is triggering all my doubt and sad feelings.

He does not have contact with the OW because she got a restraining order against him when she found out he was with me. He had told her that he was at his dad's house, and she showed up looking for him.

[This message edited by Lonelygirl10 at 2:40 PM, July 18th (Thursday)]


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1164 | Registered: Jul 2013
doesitgetbetter
Member
Member # 18429
Default  Posted: 3:10 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

It somewhat helps, but I'm also smart enough to know he could be sending me old pictures. I don't know how to handle that.

Ask him to send you a very specific picture of something, and change what that is each time you ask for a pic. Easy.

A restraining order doesn't keep OW from contacting him, just him from contacting her IF she wants to press charges. So don't feel all warm and fuzzy about that RO.

And get that boy How To Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair. If he won't do all of the things outlined in that book, then you know you don't matter and he'll keep cheating.

Lastly, I wonder about his quick forgiveness of his ex. I have a relative who was married to a cheating woman. The wife found out that the husband had cheated, and she forgave him VERY quickly and never talked about it again. Why did she do this? Because she had been cheating on him for a VERY LONG TIME when she discovered his affair. She took his affair as her "get out of jail free" card in case he ever found out about her affair. So just because WBF's ex wife cheated on him, doesn't mean he didn't cheat on her also and it's possible she never knew. Just sayin.


DDay - Dec '07
Me - BS
Him - FWS
Us - Committed
May 18, 2010 - I forgave him fully!
"Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction." Isaiah 48:10

Posts: 3859 | Registered: Feb 2008
Lonelygirl10
Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 3:35 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

Ask him to send you a very specific picture of something, and change what that is each time you ask for a pic. Easy.

That's a great idea. Thank you!

A restraining order doesn't keep OW from contacting him, just him from contacting her IF she wants to press charges. So don't feel all warm and fuzzy about that RO.

Well, she actually filed charges against him for stalking. He was arrested. Part of his bail was that he was to have zero contact with her. The charges were dismissed because she didn't show up for the trial. I periodically look at her FB profile, and it says that she's in a committed relationship now. She was single at the time.

Lastly, I wonder about his quick forgiveness of his ex. I have a relative who was married to a cheating woman. The wife found out that the husband had cheated, and she forgave him VERY quickly and never talked about it again. Why did she do this? Because she had been cheating on him for a VERY LONG TIME when she discovered his affair. She took his affair as her "get out of jail free" card in case he ever found out about her affair. So just because WBF's ex wife cheated on him, doesn't mean he didn't cheat on her also and it's possible she never knew. Just sayin.

I've always wondered how he forgave her so quickly. She cheated while they were dating, and he said that he proposed very shortly after because he didn't want the other guy to get her. They were married four years, and then she left him for another man.

So, I spoke with him again. He has agreed to set aside time every Wednesday to talk about the A. I feel like this is some progress.

[This message edited by Lonelygirl10 at 3:46 PM, July 18th (Thursday)]


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1164 | Registered: Jul 2013
Markone
Member
Member # 30291
Default  Posted: 3:40 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

He sends me pictures of where he's at. A huge trigger for me is him going to his dad's house. Every time he told me he was going to his dad's house December-April, he was with her. It was his go-to excuse, because I never questioned the reasonableness of it. So I usually have panic attacks when he says he's going there. He'll text me a picture of his dad or the house. It somewhat helps, but I'm also smart enough to know he could be sending me old pictures. I don't know how to handle that.

...and nearly 3 years after D-Day, I was still feeling that way. Why? because no work had been done to assure me (and her) that it couldn't happen again. I could not live that way. But you will as long as you let him dicate how it should work or try to R with a half-hearted spouse (which, I'm sorry, he is)

Here's an idea: think of how much you love him and what you'd do for that love..."climb a mountain",? walk through fire"?, hell, "give him a 2nd chance after betrayal?".

"I'd do anything for him, I love him"...right?

now how do you feel that to him that love isn't worth trying to understand how you feel and how you can heal. Just not worth "having to talk about it again ".

Not fair, is it?


DD 11/28/10
Me (BH)
Her (WS)
Separated and filed (7/13)

Posts: 413 | Registered: Dec 2010
still2suspicious
Member
Member # 31722
Default  Posted: 5:01 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

"Last night wasn't about me putting my needs over your needs. You asked me what was going through my head when it happened and I've already told you. I feel like you are beating me up when I've already apologized so much. I've done nothing but try to be an open book to you, be sweet, caring and put you first. Yes its okay for you to not have forgotten about it... And I'm sorry I did it. But I don't want to constantly feel like I'm going to lose you or I have to explain everything over and over and apologize over and over. You know I'm here for you. You know I'm sorry and I'm willing to help you when you're down. But I can't change the past and that is what you want me to do."

I got this same shit spiel. If you take a step back, and read it again, notice how many "I's" are in it?? That whole speech is about HIM!

I am sorry LG, but I don't see a lot of dig-down-deep remorse yet. He is doing some good things, but they are the easier parts.

I don't yet get the feeling he's got a clue that there is a hard part to this.

This is still so new, and raw, for you. Like the WS's handbook we BS's also have one. And you are quoting from it (we ALL did). "feel guilty" "don't want to push to hard" etc. Some how we feel that WE need to twist ourselves inside out for them! Which, when you hit the anger stage, you say "HELL NO". You will get there, I promise. And, if he is whining, and complaining, about this process now, what is he gonna do when you hit that stage??

A gentle 2x4:

YOU need to stop apologizing. You need to state what YOU need from him. Maybe write them all down so you two can discuss them on your weekly talk (KUDOS to him for setting that up!!) Not only will the breaks do him good, it will also help you too. BUT he has to understand that sometimes, just sometimes, our mouths can't wait a week!

Keep posting here. You will get thru this, and we will be there every step of the way.

Sending strength.

PS: When you need those bitch boots, SI has a closet full of them!! guaranteed to fit all of us!


Me: BS
Him: WH
DDay: LTEA

Posts: 1284 | Registered: Apr 2011 | From:
Lonelygirl10
Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 6:25 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

I feel like I'm spiraling down a black hole tonight. Our R was going so well last week. I felt really good about things, and where we were at. Two triggers happened this week for me, and now I don't know how to pull myself back out of this hole. He asked me just now if I needed the weekend to myself, and that it was okay if I do. I immediately started feeling like he didn't want to see me, and now even if he does see me, I'll feel like he thinks he has to. I don't know how to turn off these feelings.

I have already hit the anger stage, and passed it. We went to Las Vegas in June, which was a disaster. There were half-dressed women everywhere. The last night, I ended up in the bathroom crying and screaming at him. So, we got past the anger stage, and I thought we were moving into acceptance. Now it seems I'm back to feeling sad.

I'm not sure if I'm posting in the right forum since I'm new. We are trying to R, but having problems I guess.

I emailed him the WS article that someone pointed out. When I read it, I almost cried because it's exactly how I feel. Hopefully he will read it and learn something.

I almost want to put all my feelings in a letter to him. All my questions. All my doubts. All the images. But I'm not sure if that will be helpful or damaging. What do you think?


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1164 | Registered: Jul 2013
Markone
Member
Member # 30291
Default  Posted: 7:00 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

Email? Yes, if nothing else it will most likely do you some good if you're able to express what you feel on paper. Send it here first if you want guidance. But establishing your needs on paper or otherwise is important. Creating boundaries is important too so you know where you stand and what you will not accept (probably will be tested at times - like the next Vegas trip that gets planned- would you be ok with that? What if it's just the guys?)


Black hole? Yes it does feel like that sometimes. A rollercoaster too. It's all part of the normal process.

Hang in there. We are here for you.


DD 11/28/10
Me (BH)
Her (WS)
Separated and filed (7/13)

Posts: 413 | Registered: Dec 2010
Lonelygirl10
Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 7:39 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

Creating boundaries is important too so you know where you stand and what you will not accept (probably will be tested at times - like the next Vegas trip that gets planned- would you be ok with that? What if it's just the guys?)

No, I can't imagine him going to Vegas without me. It was bad enough when he was with me. Just the thought of him going with his guy friends causes my chest to hurt.

Is that something that gets better over time, or do you create different boundaries than you had before the A?


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1164 | Registered: Jul 2013
Lonelygirl10
Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 8:21 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

Well, I sent him a very long email with everything in it. All my thoughts, questions, fears. I was terrified to hit send. Hopefully it doesn't push him away.


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1164 | Registered: Jul 2013
heartache101
Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 8:34 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

There is beeautiful people everywhere running around half naked.. He just needs good boundaries.

I hope the email is taken well by him..
Keep us informed.


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3187 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
doesitgetbetter
Member
Member # 18429
Default  Posted: 9:47 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

Oh lonely, the anger stage usually hits much later, like around the 9 month mark or so. Not always, but most often. That little bit of anger we feel close to DDay is NOTHING compared to the real rage stage.


DDay - Dec '07
Me - BS
Him - FWS
Us - Committed
May 18, 2010 - I forgave him fully!
"Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction." Isaiah 48:10

Posts: 3859 | Registered: Feb 2008
Lonelygirl10
Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 9:56 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

He read the email, and his response was:

"Honestly at some points I feel like you want me to give up. I feel like I'm trying just as hard as I was from day 1, but I'm just spinning my wheels. I feel like you are making me want to give up so that way you can say you tried but I couldn't do it because I didn't love you enough."

We talked a little more, but he was mostly giving one word responses. I commented on it, and he said he needed to be alone tonight. So I'm trying to respect what he needs. But my emotions are all over the place, and I need him to reassure me.

Oh lonely, the anger stage usually hits much later, like around the 9 month mark or so. Not always, but most often. That little bit of anger we feel close to DDay is NOTHING compared to the real rage stage.

That scares me.


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1164 | Registered: Jul 2013
WoundedOpus
Member
Member # 39521
Default  Posted: 6:04 AM, July 19th (Friday)

I only have a minute (and I'm typing on my iPad), so I'm not able to fully respond like I'd like to, but...

Please, if you haven't already don't so, go read the post someone else mentioned; the things all WS need to know (or something to that effect). Then have him read it over and over again.

Also, in reading your posts, it seems that you have some issies with boundaries and how they affect us. (I say that lovingly, as someone who is just beginingnto understand them myself). I never truly understood boundaries or how that played a role in my dealing with his A, but decided to read a book that seems to get recommended frequently on SI...and OMG, I haven't even gotten to the meat of the book and I feel it's been life altering. So many of the things you've said you've felt and done are so similar to myself. I am 5 years out, I believe if I'd had SI and these tools (knowledge), I wouldn't still be sitting in the same place I was 5 years ago! Nothing has changed in my marriage, I hate to see anyone possibly on the same path I was.

Here is the link to Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No

http://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-When-Say-Yes-ebook/dp/B000FC2K9W/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1374230958&sr=1-1&keywords=Boundaries%3A+when+to+say+no

((((LG10))))


Me: BW 37
Him: WH 38
(DDay: 2/2008)
13 years, 5 kids...Six years of Limbo

“I don't want to get to the end of my life and find that I have just lived the length of it. I want to have lived the width of it as well." ~ Diane Ackerman


Posts: 178 | Registered: Jun 2013
Lonelygirl10
Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 6:38 AM, July 19th (Friday)

He responded to my email last night, and answered my questions. It felt horrible to read the stuff. I almost felt like I did on Dday. My hands went numb, I started shaking. I'm grateful he answered the questions, but now I wish I didn't know the answers.

He had a ONS 3 months after we met, and then a 4 month affair 8 months after the ONS. On Dday, I focused on the affair instead of ONS. The details he gave me last night in the email about ONS were ALOT different than the brief details he had given me about it on Dday. On Dday, he had made it seem like it happened because he was drunk and couldn't get home, so he stayed with this girl to just sleep and it happened. But in the email last night, he said that he knew before they went out drinking that he was going to stay at her place. To me, that means it was premeditated instead of a drunk thing, which makes it worse

How do I deal with this new information? I don't want to "punish" him by finally being honest with me in this email, but I'm also having a hard time with this new information. How do you deal with new information 4 months after Dday in a constructive manner?


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1164 | Registered: Jul 2013
Lonelygirl10
Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 7:08 AM, July 19th (Friday)

Also, in reading your posts, it seems that you have some issies with boundaries and how they affect us.

Thank you for the link. Do you think I have too strict boundaries, or not enough boundaries?


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1164 | Registered: Jul 2013
WoundedOpus
Member
Member # 39521
Default  Posted: 9:24 AM, July 19th (Friday)

I realize I don't know the ins-and-outs of your relationship and don't have no information about it before the A, so if I'm way off base, fell free to tell me so (and to take a hike ...

Even people with the best boundaries will have those tested when faced with this kind of hurt and betrayal and the inevitable roller coaster of emotions that comes with it. We will analyze and question our WS's thought process leading up to the A, the days/weeks after DD, and the months following. We will question ours as well.

It is normal and natural to examine our reactions to the A and how we choose to handle them, drawing conclusions to their effectiveness: ("Is what I'm doing having the desired impact"?, "Am I making healthy choices"? "What are the alternative ways in which I could respond to this that will bring about my desired outcome, while not compromising myself"?, etc).

Someone with intact boundaries will be open to examining their behavior and making appropriate changes when/where needed to maintain a healthy and happy self, in such a way that does not compromise those boundaries which would create an unhealthy, unhappy self.

Here is a table that lists the contrasting characteristics of Strong Boundaries versus Weak Boundaries:
http://www.yourpotential.net/3/5/A_Checklist_on_Boundaries_in_a_Relationship.html

While most people would not exhibit every single characteristic of one over the other, if you're heavily relating to one side, you can determine where you fall.

For me, I exhibit every single characteristics save 1 of a person who has Given Up My Boundaries in a Relationship. The sad reality is, when you 'give them up', it means the one you gave them to 'takes them in'.

Examples -

ME
* Do not notice (your own) unhappiness since enduring is your concern.
* Alter your behavior, plans, or opinions to fit the current moods or circumstances of another (live reactively)
* Are enmeshed in a drama that is beyond your control.

HIM
* Does not notice (my) unhappiness since he is forced to enduring nothing.
* Their moods and circumstances causes another to alter their behavior, plans, or opinions. (Meaning, they are never forced to reevaluate their behaviors, and accept accountability for how it in turns affects others or circumstances)
* Are enmeshed in a drama that is completely in their control. (This is referencing I think every day life, but of course especially applies during an affair.

1. They created the drama, they had all the control during the A 2. They hold all the control after; Meaning, R is based on: their timeline, how and when the A is discussed and when you are done discussing it, how hurt you should be, how it should (or more to the point shouldn't) affect you now and long term, what information is needed and given, their concern is how the process and outcome affects them, they dictate your requirements for forgiveness and trust building, they determine when they've done enough to earn those back.

The book I linked to in my previous post goes into much more detail and truly helps in understanding boundaries and how their existence or nonexistence affects us, and (I assume since I haven't finished it :) will help guide me in learning how to fix them!

Only you can determine if boundaries are an issue for you and a problem in your marriage. I feel I see a lot of 'me' in your posts, and since I wish I'd found SI and all of these tools and insights in the early days post DD, I thought I'd share in case you can relate, possibly help you in not being me 5 years later.

And if it turns out this doesn't relate to you, well hopefully the links help somebody!


Me: BW 37
Him: WH 38
(DDay: 2/2008)
13 years, 5 kids...Six years of Limbo

“I don't want to get to the end of my life and find that I have just lived the length of it. I want to have lived the width of it as well." ~ Diane Ackerman


Posts: 178 | Registered: Jun 2013
WoundedOpus
Member
Member # 39521
Default  Posted: 12:49 PM, July 19th (Friday)

On Dday, he had made it seem like it happened because he was drunk and couldn't get home, so he stayed with this girl to just sleep and it happened. But in the email last night, he said that he knew before they went out drinking that he was going to stay at her place. To me, that means it was premeditated instead of a drunk thing, which makes it worse

How do I deal with this new information? I don't want to "punish" him by finally being honest with me in this email, but I'm also having a hard time with this new information. How do you deal with new information 4 months after Dday in a constructive manner?

Yes, it means it was premeditated, it should mean that to him as well. Since he'd earlier stated otherwise, that makes it another very big lie. Every new lie is a new hurt. So how should you deal with it? You don't pretend it's anything other than exactly what it is. He chose to lie to you on DD to do damage control, protecting him over healing you, that hurts. You have a right to say that and he needs to own the added pain he's caused you. While it's a positive sign that he made a choice to tell you the truth on his own, a bigger sign will be how he handles the fallout from it. You are not 'punishing' him for being honest, you are being true to yourself by, allowing yourself to feel the pain, and placing the blame and accountability at his door.

I agree that totally freaking out and going ballistic isn't the 'best' way to handle new information when it's offered (not saying that's how you'd handle it, just giving a possible 'nonconstructive' manner), although not many would find fault if you did, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't handle that with a whole lot of grace. And I get why you would want to be cautious in your approach, as it benefits you to make him feel 'safe' enough to share more if there's something else.

Gently…you can’t join him in the ‘You’re Punishing Him’ mentality. Him seeing your hurt isn’t punishing him, you being allowed feel, express and verbalize your pain isn’t punishing him. You continuing to mistrust him, especially finding out a new truth, and acting accordingly, are not you punishing him. What is his definition of ‘being punished’ by you, what is yours?

Based on his previous attitude, I’m concerned that the only way he’ll see himself as “Not Punished” for this, is if you: ‘Thank him profusely for his honesty, because you really get how scared he was and know how hard it was to tell you”. Adding it to the list of things you really need to stop talking about and asking questions about. And apologizing for bringing up. I hope I’m wrong. I sincerely hope that he sticks to his agreement for regular A talks and allows you to say what you need to and is open to you asking questions repeatedly without getting frustrated and defensive.

And lastly, I really hope that these talks start being about YOU. Markone, pointed out really well, so far, every thing he has to say is filled with I’s...and a whole lot of what you say is filled with HIM's.

Wish you well in this LG10, I hope he starts acting in a way that values and deserves you!


Me: BW 37
Him: WH 38
(DDay: 2/2008)
13 years, 5 kids...Six years of Limbo

“I don't want to get to the end of my life and find that I have just lived the length of it. I want to have lived the width of it as well." ~ Diane Ackerman


Posts: 178 | Registered: Jun 2013
Markone
Member
Member # 30291
Default  Posted: 1:52 PM, July 19th (Friday)

LG
I think Wounded gives some very good pointers on boundaries. I, unfortunately, didn't do well and hence one of the reasons "R" didn't work for me. I let my WW dictate what was acceptable to her and I then created my boundaries around them. Duh! Backasswards for sure.

That said, I do think boundaries can change over time. Using the Vegas trip as an example, after rebuilding your trust with him through effective R, you may get to a point where going away with the guys becomes acceptable to you...but anywhere than Vegas. Over time you may say Vegas is Ok but I'd like these reassurances etc etc. Some boundaries may stay in place forever - e,g. no female friends. These are yours to define. How do you want to live?

LG, you're dealing with (IMHO), a manipulative liar. Maybe a passive aggressive person too. Note how it's you that's feeling bad and not wanting to punish him...that comes from his responses like "I've nothing but try to be an open book to you..?" Makes YOU feel bad asking, right?

Well, he hasn't been an "open book" has he? Otherwise the new info on the ONS would not be a surprise to you. He HAS to understand, as an example, that knowing the circumstances around the ONS matter a great deal to you. He currently sees it is as "well, i've already told you about the ONS why do I need to keep talking about it?"..

Well, your answer is - "if you want me to forgive you, you have to answer my questions so I know what to forgive you for.."

Stand strong LG. Do not let him manipulate you like this.


DD 11/28/10
Me (BH)
Her (WS)
Separated and filed (7/13)

Posts: 413 | Registered: Dec 2010
Tearsoflove
Member
Member # 8271
Default  Posted: 3:06 PM, July 19th (Friday)

I call bullshit on his actually reading "Not Just Friends". He may have carried the book around. He may have opened it a few times. But if he actually read it, you wouldn't be getting this from him:

He said that he doesn't understand why I keep bringing it up. So I tried to explain that I had read some stuff saying that it was good to talk, and that I needed him to talk to me. He said that everyone deals with things differently. And also said that he doesn't see what bringing it up does to help. He said that he feels guilty, and there's no more answers that he can give me. He said that there's no right answer to a question like how he was feeling at the time, and that talking about it just makes it worse. He wants us to put it behind us, and move forward.

Tell him it's time to read it "again" and this time, there will be discussion after each chapter. And that's if you stay with him which, in my opinion, you shouldn't.

[This message edited by Tearsoflove at 3:07 PM, July 19th (Friday)]


"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand." ~Homer Simpson


Posts: 4086 | Registered: Sep 2005
Topic Posts: 35