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User Topic: I need neutral opinions, please.
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 7:48 AM, July 18th (Thursday)

I need some neutral opinions, please.

The old-timers around here know that d-day was over 3 years for me...and my ex was exposed via ONE of the men he was having gay affairs with. So, yeah, total mind-fuck for me. Ex is now in an openly gay relationship with a "steady" guy, probably moving in together in the next year. I've spent a lot of time in therapy and probably 90% healed from the mind-fuck. A few left overs that I work through when I hit them.

MOST guys, when I tell them ex is gay don't make much of a response. They kinda shake their heads and might ask a question or two, but overall most are...respectful.

But, last year I didn't tell a guy until our first date. He would order a beer...then say, "What?? HOW? I don't understand!??" Then order another beer. I think I counted 6 or 7. I wasn't interested...too much drinking for a first date.

I had a guy that was very interested in me last week... "poof" the second I mentioned my ex was gay.

I received an email from a pretty decent sounding guy a day or two ago, and we were discussing child custody arrangement. Long story, I just said that ex would be moving in with his bf "soon".

The reply back was something along the line of "I really want to make a gay joke...but I don't know how sensitive you are about the situation."

I think I want to "next" this guy. I understand that people want to joke in order to handle difficult topics...but I don't feel like baby sitting these men or their opinions. Really? At 44 years old...you feel the need to make a gay joke?

Two of my IRL friends think his reaction is OK, "normal" male behavior to make jokes about something uncomfortable. I, on the other hand, don't want to hear gay jokes. I have two kids with a gay Dad, I don't want anyone in my life that thinks making gay jokes is acceptable. I don't think making fun of anyone is acceptable. I do occasionally poke fun at myself, and my lack of "gaydar", but I don't poke fun of ex.

So...what do neutral parties think? It put a bad taste in my mouth, but then I wonder if I am too sensitive about this issue? The guy didn't actually MAKE the joke, just said he "wanted to, but didn't know how sensitive I was".

I didn't respond yesterday, and took some time to sort through my feelings a little. I responded back that "bottom line, I have 2 kids with a gay Dad and I am teaching them acceptance". I went on to normal "get to know you" type email...but I want to NEXT this guy over it. Overall, he seems really decent...50% custody of his kids, good job, educated, a rather dry sarcastic wit, respectful "get to know you" emails and kinda cute. I'm not really physically attracted to him...but kinda.

So...what say SI?


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4186 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: South
hotcoffee
Member
Member # 39700
Default  Posted: 7:56 AM, July 18th (Thursday)

You are right to feel uncomfortable about that reaction from an educated, respectful, 44 year old man. I can be sarcastic but if I am unsure that my audience would "get it" or be sensitive, I bite my tongue. I don't say "I have something hilarious that I could say but you are probably too sensitive to get it." Doesn't seem like great judgment.

Posts: 59 | Registered: Jun 2013
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 8:12 AM, July 18th (Thursday)

So what situations are safe to make a joke about? Is self-deprecating humor the only "safe" form? Would a joke that starts off, "A priest, a Rabbi and an Imam" or "A blonde, brunette and redhead all..." be offensive?

If the joke is not specifically denigrating would it be ok? I'm bald, bowling ball references don't bother me.

I do occasionally poke fun at myself, and my lack of "gaydar",

Turn it around. What if that had been the new guy's response when you told him about X?


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2995 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
ladies_first
Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 8:16 AM, July 18th (Thursday)

D-day was over 3 years for me...and my ex was exposed via ONE of the men he was having gay affairs with. So, yeah, total mind-fuck for me

So it was a mind-fuck for you, and it took you 3 years to accept the situation.

Can you see how someone who "just found out" might be feeling a little mind-fucked and not *immediately* able to accept the situation?


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
7yrsflushed
Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 8:30 AM, July 18th (Thursday)

Question for you and I am not asking to offend or upset just curious, why do you feel you need to tell potential dates that particular piece of information so early in the process? It's your perogative but I can see how that would blindside someone. I am not excusing his response at all and at the least it's insensitive but it's so early in the process you have no way to know if he just has a weird sense of humor, was uncomfortable, or a bigot in disguise.

I am 37 and would not have made a joke or hinted at one but I don't think that makes me any more or less mature than anyone else my age. If anyone saw my 35 year old brother and I hanging out they would probably consider us the most juvenile people on the planet but there is a time and place for everything.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1912 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
She11ybeanz
Member
Member # 27457
Default  Posted: 8:35 AM, July 18th (Thursday)

I think there is still a part of you that is still very sensitive to the subject matter and rightly so. No one ever said you had to be completely over the situation with your ex and it is OKAY to still have underlying issues regarding that situation. However, you need to own the fact that it is still a sensitive topic for you and to recognize that it is a trigger for you when others do not react in a robotically perfect way towards the news. It is a bit of a shocking revelation for anyone and *I* of all people would have probably poked fun just to lighten the mood.... (and I have a gay older sister.... so its not because I'm insensitive or rude). I think a lot of people use humor as a coping mechanism.

I agree with some of the others that since this still sounds like a touchy subject for you....I would most likely steer clear of revealing this information until you are much further into a relationship and see it going somewhere more long-term.

Just my 2 cents. ((BIGHUGZ))


"Sometimes your knight in shining armor ...is just a douchebag in tin foil!!"

ME - BW - 35
HIM - XWH - 39
D day: November 15th, 2009
Married: 5 Years, together 8
Divorced: December 13th, 2010
New Beginning: Piper/8-3-12


Posts: 2724 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: Virginia
SBB
Member
Member # 35229
Default  Posted: 8:58 AM, July 18th (Thursday)

People say stupid things when they don't know what to say.

What was his reaction to your email? Did he apologise? I have a strange sense of humour and may blurt out something insensitive whilst trying to be witty/ease the tension in person but in writing? I'm not sure I would.

What would you like someone to say? What would you have said to someone before you yourself were in this situation?

I think I would like for someone to say "My god, I can't imagine what that was like for you - to find out something like that by way of cheating is unimaginably cruel".

IMO there is a particular reaction many men and women have towards homosexuality. They are what I like to call the 'I'm not homophobic, but...' brigade. They are accepting of it in terms of not setting out to try to have it outlawed or anything like that but they do still hold some uninformed views about it.

To me it is just as awful that he cheated on you as it is that he knew he was gay yet continued to deceive you for years even when not cheating. That he is gay does not excuse or validate the cheating any more than that my husband wasn't happy validates his cheating.

He should have told you and divorced you if he realised or accepted it after your marriage. If he knew before then he, like the X in my situation and many other here wore a mask and presented himself falsely to you and also to himself.

I don't know whether you are reacting as a betrayed wife of a gay WS, a mother of sons of a gay father or as someone who is intolerant of any amount of bigotry. Or all of the above.

Either way I don't think you are overreacting. I think you DO need someone who reacts in an empathetic way - or if they blurt out something insensitive unintentionally then at least apologise and be more mindful.

I can't tell from this one scenario whether he was surprised and reacting stupidly or whether he does have a view that is incompatible with yours here.

For me to continue getting to know him I would need to know that he understood why what he said was inappropriate and out of order beyond the fact that it hurt my feelings or that I found it distasteful.


I may have reached a point where I'd piss on him if he was on fire.... eventually!!

Posts: 5609 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Australia
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 8:59 AM, July 18th (Thursday)

I think it is more of me protecting my kids for as long as possible. We are already hitting the snide remarks at soccer (seriously almost slapped one of the other Mom's who said, and I quote, "Do we need to get a bow for your ex to hold his hair up? He is being such a pussy..." when he didn't go out to play soccer with our son). She said it with my daughter within earshot.

I WANT someone around me, and eventually my kids, who is at least accepting of my situation and doesn't feel the need to tell off color jokes or snide remarks. I will not tolerate that in my house. He IS their Dad and my first priority will always be my children.

So...I'm a little...touchy. I just don't like being in the position between defending my ex since he IS their Dad, and a lot of conservative opinions.

I tell men early because there are a LOT of men who cannot handle this news. They don't like gay men, don't want to be around them, don't understand, etc. I'm in the middle of one of the most conservative states in the US. I don't want to become attached to a guy and later find out he can't handle it. I would say about 30% have a "problem" with a gay man in my/kids life.

I KNOW when I tell guys they are going to be shocked. This is the first guy whose initial response is to crack a joke. Most say, "Wow, that must have been tough..." then ask more questions later. Those are the ones that CAN handle it. I know it is a lot for some people to wrap their brain around because it is a political, religious and social issue.

But, if someone told me they left their ex because of...say..drug use....I'm not going to crack a joke even though I'm surprised.

I don't tell guys he cheated, I don't go into any details at all. I think with xSO, it was a month or two before we really talked about it. I offer nothing else unless the guys ask. I simply say he is in a long term relationship with his partner and sees our kids e/o weekend. Or, like this guy, I simply said I teach my children acceptance.

but it's so early in the process you have no way to know if he just has a weird sense of humor, was uncomfortable, or a bigot in disguise.

^^^this is what I'm trying to figure out without coming out and asking him. If he is a bigot...no more discussion. My gut is leaning that direction.


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4186 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: South
Sad in AZ
Member
Member # 24239
Default  Posted: 9:26 AM, July 18th (Thursday)

If you're comfortable letting them know about your ex's situation, why not ask if they are biased against gays? If you're going to be open and honest, go all the way. It doesn't have to be confrontational; be matter-of-fact and let the chips fall where they may.

I have no tolerance for bigots and make no bones about it.

[This message edited by Sad in AZ at 9:26 AM, July 18th (Thursday)]


I solemnly swear that I am up to no good.

Posts: 20292 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Upstate NY
SBB
Member
Member # 35229
Default  Posted: 10:01 AM, July 18th (Thursday)

I would come out and ask him. Most bigots are pretty open about their views if you listen carefully and ignore the PC wrapping.


I may have reached a point where I'd piss on him if he was on fire.... eventually!!

Posts: 5609 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Australia
Amazonia
Member
Member # 32810
Default  Posted: 10:06 AM, July 18th (Thursday)

Personally, someone acting like a bigot tends to be enough for me to "next" them. Circumstances notwithstanding. Just sayin'.

[This message edited by Amazonia at 10:06 AM, July 18th (Thursday)]


"You yourself deserve your love and affection as much as anybody in the universe." -Buddha
"Let's face it, life is a crap shoot." -Sad in AZ

Posts: 13801 | Registered: Jul 2011
Ashland13
Member
Member # 38378
Default  Posted: 10:12 AM, July 18th (Thursday)

Yes, there is a post that asks how come you feel the need to make mention of the Ex so soon?

I understand he is on your mind as I have that too, but maybe there could be a way to guage a potential date's thoughts about the topic, without bringing up your Ex?

Maybe it doesn't have to be so personal right away and could somehow just be general conversation or questions you ask them, as I do understand a need you would have to know their thoughts on it.

In my inlaws family are a bunch of gay people, or those who have changed from one sex to the other. It is all stages; some hide it and some don't. More are not hiding it as the family ages, so I can relate on a very personal level to your frustrations and worries on this topic.

One of my biggest sources of support is a man who is gay and divorced and helping me through. He supports me and DD and Mr. Peckerwood, who is his brother, if you can imagine. On "my side" are family members who are more closed-minded to the lifestyle and they simply have to learn how to accept the friendship as he becomes more a part of my life and daughters than he was before.

FWIW to have yet another opinion, I agree that the attempts at humor could be a way to cover up someone's feeling awkward, as that is often the way or culture in the in law family as well...especially with regard to this topic.


Ashland 13

You gave me nothing and now it's all I've got - Bono

A person is a person, no matter how small. -Dr. Suess

Perserverance and spirit have done wonders in all ages.

-George Washington


Posts: 2289 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: New England
turned123
Member
Member # 33663
Default  Posted: 10:16 AM, July 18th (Thursday)

I agree with sad and strong. I would explain how you are feeling and that you have no tolerence for them choosing to bash someone for their beliefs, sexual orientation et all. There are many people in my life who are important to me who's views are different than mine but I wont tolerate others harassing them because of it. It doesnt need to be a confrontation, more a clear statement of belief to establish the boundries that are important to you.


me BS 48
her WW 45
married 15 years
divorced
3 wonderful but hurt kids

Posts: 334 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: milwaukee
devistatedmom
Member
Member # 24961
Default  Posted: 10:25 AM, July 18th (Thursday)

I think the "problem" is, when you are still in the chatting/getting to know you/trying to decide if you should meet stage, or even the first meeting, is how do you want them to react? They don't even know you yet, and you drop this news...it's kind of like the How I Met Your Mother episode where Ted keeps seeing everyone walking around carrying their baggage. The thing is, this guy, or others, may be perfectly able to handle it, not have two thoughts about your x being gay, but when I don't even know your last name yet, what's the proper response to that? Gee I'm sorry? Hey, that's cool? Ignore it? And since you put the info out there, they feel they have to respond, but don't know the proper way. If you get to know them better first, and you both like each other, then tell them, their response might be different, you know?

I've seen people here talk about not going out into a first meet with a OLD person and blurt out that my x cheated, blah blah blah...really? It's none of their business. Once we actually start to date, somewhere down the road they can find out more about the inner workings of my life and family. They don't need to know right away.

It doesn't mean you need to hide it...but too much info too quick can also make people back off before they even know how wonderful you are and that you handle it all well, because it makes them wonder gee, she sounds like she's dealing with a lot..do I want to get mixed up in this because they *think* you may have a lot of hang ups before it. They pre-judge, just like we all do, without having all the facts. You do the same thing (as we all do), prejudging them, from one comment, when they are scrambling for the right response.

I don't know if what I've said makes sense of if I got my point across properly, but the main thing is, give someone a few dates before you decide they are homophobic or whatever...in the dating stage, one little comment doesn't have to be the end...I mean, if it's I hate gay people, yeah, but if they are stuck for words, I'd give them another chance.


BS(me) 46, Two wonderful teens.
He is no longer my best friend. Repeat until it sticks.

WH says marriage is over: May 15, 2009.
EA#2 July 20, 2009. Legally sep: Aug 16, 2009. DIVORCED!!!! Signed Nov 23, final Dec 24, 2010, adultery listed.


Posts: 5526 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: Canada
GabyBaby
Member
Member # 26928
Default  Posted: 10:29 AM, July 18th (Thursday)

Question for you and I am not asking to offend or upset just curious, why do you feel you need to tell potential dates that particular piece of information so early in the process?
I agree with 7yrsflushed.
It isnt something you necessarily need to go into (especially right out of the gate). You can say you're divorced and even that there was infidelity on your ex's part and change the subject. IF the guy you're dating is around a while, then you can get into specifics...just like a M/F infidelity situation.
Personally, I always felt a big of a yellow/red flag when my potential dates gave me such a level of detail on their exes so early. I came off as bitter and/or that they weren't over it yet.

As far as the gay joke thing, I agree that a lot of guys in my circle make stupid jokes when they are uncomfortable. They aren't trying to be offensive, but depening on the topic and the level of sensitivity on the receiving end, it could be hurtful.


Me - 42
SorryInSac (WH#2) - 47. DDay 7/12/14
Married 4, together 7yrs total
Status - Stick a fork in me...

DD(21), DS(18, PDD-NOS)
6 Furkids - 4 dogs, 2 cats

WXH (serial cheater, 12+ OW) - Legally married 18yrs

I edit often for clarity.


Posts: 6540 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: California
ladies_first
Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 11:00 AM, July 18th (Thursday)

I tell men early because there are a LOT of men who cannot handle this news.

How about a new rule? Instead of telling a guy on the first date, how about "dropping the bomb" on the (pick a random number) 7th date?

A first date is so...so....
judgy. We're judging everything. We're looking for a reason, any reason, to run away home to our safe place.

I like Catwoman's ethos: The goal of a first date is to *get* a second date.

I think you'll enjoy men -- and dating -- more if you look at them as individuals. Not as homophobes. And perhaps much of what you are reading as homophobia is just regular old first date jitters.

ETA. devistatedmom said it better than I!!

[This message edited by ladies_first at 11:06 AM, July 18th (Thursday)]


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 11:09 AM, July 18th (Thursday)

I suppose I want them to react with vague...understanding... of a difficult situation. I can handle the, "Wow. Really? I've never met anyone that has actually been through something like that!" Plus, honestly, those guys will usually comment on how grounded I am. I do not bash my ex...I might vent on SI some or to a very trusted friend...but never around my kids. I vent about his behavior, not that he is gay. His choices are mind boggling sometimes, I understand heterosexual men are not going to understand. Most are quite confused how he could have sex with both me, and various men. They just keep saying, "I don't understand...." I reply with, "Well, you are heterosexual. He isn't." Most want to know if we were having sex...and yes, we were.

So, I feel like I'm walking a tightrope. I have a good handle on him and my life. Someone new has to understand this is my life, and needs to be at least open to understanding the tightrope I walk. I have zero interest in someone who gay bashes, and I include gay jokes as "bashing".

I don't mention he cheated unless the guy asks, and never in the beginning or before the first date...again, unless specifically asked. I stay focused on MY life, what I am doing now, my school, my hobbies, my interests, my volunteer work. I rarely revisit the past unless I have to talk about it to a new person.

But, I have found through trial and error it is best I mention it early...it weeds out the obvious bigots.

At this point, I haven't heard back from the guy...so maybe he self selected out. I made it pretty clear in my response that I "am raising my children to be tolerant and accepting" of all people.

I'm going to t/j my own thread...

OK...so let's change the direction of this conversation. When would you want to be told of something YOU have a religious/political/social problem with? I'd want to know upfront so I can think about it. If a potential date was unfaithful, I want to know early. If he had a drug problem/alcohol issues in his past...I'm gonna want to know. His ex is batshit crazy, lost custody of her kids with a drug problem...I'm gonna want to know.

But, I understand...that is me and my need for information. I don't want anyone controlling the information I receive. Yes, left over crap from my marriage...I understand. He controlled what I knew about him. Now, that is a deal breaker for me. I'm not saying full disclosure on the first date...but before we become exclusive.


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4186 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: South
meaniemouse
Member
Member # 10798
Default  Posted: 11:31 AM, July 18th (Thursday)

cmego you've received a lot of good advice from people about when, if, how, how much info to share with people about your situation. I guess I'm more concerned about you being down on yourself for your lack of "gaydar" or anything else related to your ex's sexual orientation. Don't be. It's who he is and doesn't reflect on you any more that you being straight reflects on him.

I have to disagree with some of your friends IRL who think making fun of a person who is gay, or their family or their children is "normal" behavior. It isn't. It's mean and hateful and doesn't make anyone less uncomfortable. Being gay or straight isn't a lifestyle choice, it's an integral part of a person's identity. I don't think you are too sensitive at all and I would very definitely "next" someone who thought it was ok to make jokes at someone else's expense, especially around this issue.

That said I think I'm with the others who say to hold off on the information about your children's father. Until someone is going to be a key person in your life, they don't need to know. Frankly I'd rather not say anything and find out if a person I'm seeing has homophobic ideas or behaviors BEFORE they know anything about the situation. Then I would know for sure that they wouldn't be a part of my life and certainly not a part of my children's life. Father who is gay or not, I don't want people like that around me or my kids.

From your posts it sounds like you are being a trooper in a very stressful situation that may continue to be tough for you and your kids. Good for you, hang in there. There are lots of people without narrow minds who will accept you and your situation with respect and love. Don't waste your time with anyone who won't.


Act as if what you do matters. It does. William James

Posts: 2127 | Registered: May 2006 | From: Midwest
tabitha95
Member
Member # 22033
Default  Posted: 11:53 AM, July 18th (Thursday)

At this point, I haven't heard back from the guy...so maybe he self selected out. I made it pretty clear in my response that I "am raising my children to be tolerant and accepting" of all people.

I don't think this means he is homophobic, but I do think you may have scared him off because you are coming off really defensive from the starting block.

I agree that you've had a lot of good advice on here.

I reversed it and thought how would I react if someone told me this on the first date?

I would think that this was TMI for the first date, and also that the person telling me this is going to come with a lot of baggage (whether true or not).


BW (me) - 45
DS 14, DS 11
D-Day#1: Oct 30, 2008
D-Day#2: June 3, 2011 (same MOW) Separation: June 3, 2011
Divorce finalized: Feb 2012 (due to 6 month waiting period).

Posts: 3250 | Registered: Dec 2008
ladies_first
Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 12:16 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

I'm not saying full disclosure on the first date...but before we become exclusive.

huge>Huge>HUGE gap there.

Usually I'm telling folks here to look at the big picture, but I'm encouraging the opposite here:

Little picture. Look at him. Get to know him. Learn that he is not your xH.

He might not be "The One." You may never get to Exclusive.

Sometimes a date is just a date.

Stop being so judgy.

Start having fun!


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
caregiver9000
Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 12:25 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

I started not to reply because I am not neutral with you at all... I am on your side!

Now with the disclaimer out of the way and having read through, I want to say that humor is a defense mechanism, don't know if that is the case here. I know I have joked about some things going through my own situation that made other people's eyebrows raise, but it was my own joke at my own situation, so not exactly the same.

What I do want to say is that "bashing" your ex, is a way of supporting you to some people. I see it in my own life and I see it here on SI. Solidarity. Of course he is a POS, asshole, lower muppet and FTG!! You know?

So who says what is offensive? Language in and of itself? Some words have been highlighted as offensive to some and not to others. Words that are inflammatory (I am chuckling here, because my definition of inflammatory has really really changed) are not used. Words that bash a person for being gay or minority, are not done. But sexuality choices are bashed every time a thread goes into OW bashing.

I think that the level of sensitivity to the bashing shows a level of detachment from the hurt of the betrayal. A healthy distance from it, that the meanness in the counter attack makes you uncomfortable. I am still pretty comfortable with that meanness so I don't think I have reached that level yet. I might not get there!

All of that to say, that the person who awkwardly handles the news about one person who obviously hurt you, might not have universal views that are narrow or bigoted.

My reaction to your description of the conversation is that I think this guy was asking for cues from you for the direction to take. If you had jumped in with name calling and bashing, I bet the joke would have been there. But at least he was sensitive to ask if he could offend you before he did so????

I understand what you are looking for and trying to do. I think that I would try to filter in a few other ways and increase the odds that the person is open minded.

As for the early sharing of the my ex has a bf. Maybe stick with gender neutral SO for a while. Early dates aren't going to meet your kids so I think the information can wait. I would not feel entitled to that information about my date or upset if it came later. You are not misleading or hiding anything. This information is not even about you, it is about something that impacts you and your children, but this guy? Any new guy? He doesn't warrant that level of disclosure yet. Think of the early dates as interviews. You aren't bringing this out at an interview when you go job searching, right? I think the reasoning is similar.


Me: 44, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 13 DS 10
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5861 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
EvenKeel
Member
Member # 24210
Default  Posted: 12:49 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

Ok....so you realize it is important to you to give them this information early on in the process.

The response you can expect will be varied. People say stupid stuff when they are not sure what to say.

Soooo - what about changing the flavor of what you tell them? I mean, still tell them but add a following sentence so they are clear on what you think and they don't instantly put their foots in their mouths?

Like "ok...this is what happened. It is important to me that people in my family's life are sensitive to it and respectful of all involved, including of my children's father"

If someone is a bigot or gay basher....they are not going to be able to 'candy-coat' their response to you....nor will they care to.

At least you will be tipping them off to how important this is and that jokes are not welcomed?

As for the soccer game moms (and everyone else you will have to encounter)....I am sure someone here can think of a snappy comeback to put them in their place? This group is so good at that.

Edited for afterthoughts....I would answer that guy that "heck yes" I am sensitive to this. I wouldn't of been put off by his urge to make a joke. I have been through some horrible stuff and I cope via humor. However, if I knew it was not acceptable to you....I wouldn't joke about it. I think that is what he was saying/asking?

[This message edited by EvenKeel at 12:53 PM, July 18th (Thursday)]


Eyes are useless if the mind is blind.


Posts: 2181 | Registered: May 2009 | From: Pa
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 1:39 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

Stop being so judgy.

I'm trying to make sure I'm not judging him...hence why I posted on here.

The update is that he sent me a huge apology via email and asked for a second chance.

I need to think.


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4186 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: South
devistatedmom
Member
Member # 24961
Default  Posted: 1:53 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

I guess I look at it as the fact that your x is gay is NOT about you, not about getting to know you. The fact that Mr. Date has an x that is a druggie is not relevant to me meeting him and getting to know him, though the fact that he is the sole parent to his kids is. The reason why is not needed right now. If I had gone out on a few dates with Mr. Date and really liked him, then found out why he had his kids all the time, well, I may or may not decide to continue dating him, because I would have to decide if bringing that kind of drama around is something I wanted to deal with, but if he told me right away that my x is a drug addict, never sees the kids etc instead of just saying the kids live with me full time, I may run, and never get to understand that his x lives in a program on the other side of the country and he never has to deal with her, you know? Him starting the conversation with that is like he's trying to scare me off, if that makes sense.

As far as a bigot goes? Even without the info that your x is gay, you WILL see that he's a bigot by the 3rd date or so. Someone that is like that may be able to hide their feelings for a date or two, but as soon as they are the littlest bit comfy, they are going to make some comment about someone walking by, the waitress at the restaurant, or the two guys having wings at the next table. They will show their true colours, quickly.

I'm lousy at this dating thing. I truly am, but I've had quite a few first dates where the guy I'm having lunch with (or whatever) can't stop bashing his ex wife, or brings up other things that just show me who they truly are...and I know they aren't someone I am going to want to see again before I even learn that they have whatever other issues going on in their lives that would have sent me running.

Does that make sense? As far as when to tell...well, again, I don't think there is a set number of dates, but if you two have had a few dates, are enjoying each other's company, he's gotten to know you and see how well you have it all together, the fact that your x is gay isn't really a red flag then...because they know YOU, and know that it doesn't affect YOU. It's just something that you deal with from your past, not something that defines you.

Heck, people run away from first dates, or even before for the stupidest reasons. I had one guy that I was just talking on the phone with, hadn't even met yet decide he didn't want to go out with me because I said I enjoyed playing video games with my kids. He was like, oh, really? You enjoy video games? Too bad. Bye! Damn! I didn't say I was a major gamer who can't go out on Tuesdays because I have to go to my sonic the sledgehog group that night!

I've decided that dating at this age is backwards. When we were young, everyone accepted everyone and just went out because they seemed fun, were pretty, or whatever. Now, we look for reasons to shoot people down before we even know anything about them really. It's just easier to say no and run away for stupid stuff, not for the reasons that really matter.


BS(me) 46, Two wonderful teens.
He is no longer my best friend. Repeat until it sticks.

WH says marriage is over: May 15, 2009.
EA#2 July 20, 2009. Legally sep: Aug 16, 2009. DIVORCED!!!! Signed Nov 23, final Dec 24, 2010, adultery listed.


Posts: 5526 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: Canada
cayc
Member
Member # 21964
Default  Posted: 1:55 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

Cmego you have all my feels for this one because it's both cut & dried and not, all at the same time.

My brother is gay, he told me for the first time right after I graduated high school, so what's that? 25 years ago?

He immediately became my Acme Insta-Litmus Test for dating and friendship making. I wasn't going to date/marry or hang out with anyone who had an issue with homosexuality.

But I equally had to learn how to let innocent jokes roll off my back in the same way I do slightly misogynistic jokes and blonde jokes and jokes about how all Southerners are racist and stupid. I had to find a balance between what was truly a joke versus what was an hidden attitude. So I tend to cut people some slack. A silly joke? Ok. A reference to wanting to make a joke? Ok. A mean-spirited joke? Not ok. Repetitive silly jokes? Not ok.

In other words, I don't immediately cut people off at the knees for innocent stupidity & harmless intent, even if I sometimes say "well hey now" & enlighten them to the error of their ways. But for people like the person at your daughter's game? Them? I cut off at the knees.


[This message edited by cayc at 1:57 PM, July 18th (Thursday)]


"The difference between involvement and commitment is like ham and eggs. The chicken is involved, the pig is committed." -Martina Navratilova
"The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me." -Ayn Rand

Posts: 3124 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Mexico
Helen of Troy
Member
Member # 26419
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

From what you wrote here it seems like you were oversharing for a first date.
His remark was out of line, but I wasn't there so it is hard to know without hearing his tone or noticing his body language.
Was he nervous and accidentally said something he regretted? Was he trying to get on your good side and not knowing you made a mistake?
Or is he immature? Into bathroom humor like a teen boy? Insensitive?
You decide.

First dates should be very casual with light conversation. It's just a first meeting for both people to decide if they want to have another date.

He isn't the only one out there. By all means if you're uncomfortable toss him back. There are plenty more out there.


Posts: 4715 | Registered: Dec 2009
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 3:03 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

OK...here is what is bothering me. He apologized and even said, "I don't know you and that was out of line...I knew I shouldn't have said it as soon as I sent the email."

What he DIDN'T say was "I shouldn't make jokes about gay people."

I don't know a single person in my shoes. Not ONE. There isn't a club out there for dealing with both a gay ex AND infidelity website while you are dating with small kids. Those dealing with former husbands who are gay are full of male bashing and whining/crying (in my experience). I am in territory that no one else in my life can relate to. The only women I've met in a similar situation are either older, he didn't cheat, came out of the closet later, and no kids around. So...a clean "break". They just walked out of each other's lives.

For the next 10 years, ex and bf are going to be at soccer games, school functions, a very visible part of my children's lives. We are going to be teased, talked about, discussed, and misunderstood. I have minimized that for now...but it is coming. So, the
"man for me" HAS to be Ok with this. More than OK...accepting.

I can roll with a few light jokes, and I do say things about myself...like..."I don't know...I was married to a gay man!" when discussing "men".

In my experience, sharing it later is an even bigger shock. Like the guy on the first date who just pounded down the beers. This isn't like a skeleton in my closet... sharing he cheated on me for the entire marriage...this is my life. It isn't the past, it is the present. The cheating and marriage is the past and I rarely bring that up.

No guy has said to me, "You don't seem to be over your ex." You guys here know me better than most...the ex is the ex. I do NOT bash. I do NOT talk about him unless specific questions are asked. I tell guys I am open to whatever they want to know, but in the "early, light stages" I simply say we co-parent together well and do everything we can for our kids.

I have had enough guys react poorly now to know it can be an issue.

I think I'm probably going to be honest with this new guy, but I'm going to think on it a while longer. By honest, I mean that making a joke in the 3rd email to me (where I didn't make an initial joke at all. I can see if I joked, "yeah...how 'bout me! I don't gaydar, my ex is GAY! Ha, ha!!) makes me uncomfortable. He overstepped a boundary that he didn't know was there...I'll give him that. Well, wait. No. If I am respectful of my ex and our situation...and ex's situation (I simply said the ex and partner live in XX) what right did he have to make a joke? And this wasn't a "So two gay men walk into a bar joke"...we were discussing that I am primarily a vegetarian. He was discussing back that he eats meat and wanted to "insert a joke about your ex but didn't know how sensitive you are". It was going to be an off color/sexual joke.

I haven't responded and don't plan to until at least tomorrow. My gut is telling me he is a closet bigot. I think he knows he screwed up with me...and I'm wondering if it wouldn't taint everything anyway.

Still need processing time.

SI rocks.


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4186 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: South
VeryUncertain
Member
Member # 37845
Default  Posted: 8:23 PM, July 18th (Thursday)

Cmego, I am not in your shoes but I can sympathize. I really have 2 thoughts on the issue beyond what others have said:

1) If you're not really attracted to this guy anyway, then just move on. Why bother agonizing over this? (I mean this in the nicest way possible.)

2) You just can't put words in people's mouths. My WH never said the right thing at the right time. This guy could be sincere and not a bigot whatsoever but just didn't quite say exactly what you thought he should.

But...in the end...there are a lot of guys out there so just let this one go unless you're drooling over him. It doesn't sound like you are so...NEXT! :)

I'll say one more thing. I do agree with others that you don't need to necessarily come out of the starting gate with "OMG my ex is gay!!" A close family member of mine is gay and there is no way I would tolerate bigotry. That said, step 1 is figuring out if you even have chemistry. Step 2 down the road is divulging personal information...slowly. If you can get past the chemistry stage, you can usually also tell whether someone has the maturity of a gnat. My advice (which is worth nothing): don't email back and forth. Meet for a quick coffee and either it's there or not.

Hugs.


BS (Me): 38
WH: 43
2 beautiful, precious daughters: 4 & 2
Found out early Aug. 2012, separated 2/4/13, in R (?) since 7/2013.

Posts: 164 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: MD
InnerLight
Member
Member # 19946
Default  Posted: 12:31 AM, July 19th (Friday)

No doubt you are in a unique situation with few in exactly the same boat. It must be really hard. I am angry on your behalf at what that idiot said about your ex at the soccer game.

It just seems that you are already stressing about mr date being involved in your family life in the future. It seems like you are way way jumping the gun.

Early dates are simply to see if you like eachother enough to get through a meal. Keep the convo light. Do a few simple fun things.

I think you are putting guys on the spot right away, and if I were mister date I would find it TMI.

Maybe his dumb joke was a nervous flub, an awkward attempt to appear non challant when he was stressed by your TMI. Maybe he IS an asshole. You don't know because you spilled the beans while he is a stranger.

I have the impression, which could be dead wrong, but it seems like over sharing challenging info is a way for you to keep all potential suitors at an arms length.


BS, age 53, d-day 6-2-08, divorced after 17 years and 20 together. Now I am living alone in the beautiful rural property that was once the dream retreat with X. It's taking a long time to create new dreams but despite some struggles I am mostly happy.

Posts: 5862 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Rural California
OnceInALifetime
Member
Member # 26023
Default  Posted: 1:10 AM, July 19th (Friday)

I wonder if your search for bigotry might be more forward than it needs to be. In my experience, bigots make themselves known pretty quickly.

I've had dates go on about how their ex was an alcoholic while I'm enjoying a glass of wine. My completely asshole reaction? Order a second glass. If she's going to trip about me having a second glass, then she's too triggery around the issue.

I guess my point is that if I get a sense that I'm being interviewed, and my reactions are being judged, it's no longer a date, but rather an audition. And if you do feel like you are auditioning men rather than dating them, is that a frame of mind that allows you to be open to their charms?

[This message edited by OnceInALifetime at 1:15 AM, July 19th (Friday)]


BH, now divorced

Posts: 3012 | Registered: Oct 2009
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 7:47 AM, July 19th (Friday)

Trust me, guys, it isn't an "overshare".

In six paragraphs, it is a one line answer to a question. "What is your custody schedule..." Or..."what brought you to XXX (city)?" or..."wow, you have primary custody?" Or, they hear that I am a full time student with 2 small kids, on my own, volunteer work and artist. They want to know how I handle it all...

I'm not going to "skirt" the issue because it is "overshare". I'm going to answer honestly, succinctly with no emotions. Then I switch back to MY interests...and try to get to know THEM. The guys are the ones that then focus on this "issue". I don't know too many heterosexual men that are completely comfortable with homosexuality/bisexuality...unless they have a family member/ friend that is gay.

I've tried not bringing up until later...that didn't work either. Most of the guys are completely cool...because they can see I don't bring it up again. It is what it is.

I'm not going to try and change anyones opinion. I just prefer guys who are at least open. Guys joking with other guys...yeah...that is going to happen. Guys making a sexual joke about ex in an email to me is simply inappropriate. Wether it is a one time social "oops", my blood went cold when I read it. I can't change my reaction to make him feel more comfortable. That would be like my marriage...forever tempering my reactions to make someone else happy/comfortable.

Now, I have learned to take a step back and evaluate my reaction before responding. YEAH therapy! I never respond with emotion...I pull back and think. If I'm not talking to a guy...it is probably more "dangerous" because that means I'm thinking/evaluating myself and my reactions.

It isn't fair to this guy that my blood went cold. It isn't fair to me to sweep my reaction under the rug to "see if this was a social oopsie". I no longer want to meet him and I will kindly tell him and be done.

I just know that no matter when I tell a guy my ex is gay...they are going to be shocked and there will be some type of reaction. At least 30% are going to react poorly or poof.

WHEN to tell them is the sticky wicket.

It is like the two guys I've dates that were fWS's. How far in SHOULD they have told me? One told me before we met, we discussed and I still gave him a chance. Once we met, we didn't see eye-to-eye (he wasn't remorseful but full of excuses). The other guy told me on our first date.

Let me tell you, that sucked. I have a mouth full of food, we are getting to know each other and he tells me he cheated on his wife and left her for the gf. So, *I* would rather know up front, be given time to process a little, look at their reactions, be allowed to ask a few questions, then be allowed to proceed with full information. Which I did in both cases. The "first date fWS" and I went on 3 more dates before I just knew he wasn't in a good place yet.

I don't think there is a right answer. I just have to go with my gut and hope it works out.


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4186 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: South
cayc
Member
Member # 21964
Default  Posted: 8:16 AM, July 19th (Friday)

they are going to be shocked and there will be some type of reaction

You know what? Fuck people who judge you for your personal tragedy. Honestly, that's what this is. I may only know you virtually, but I know that you aren't telling people your story in a throw down the gauntlet challenging way, you're just saying, "hey, I'm here today as is b/c this happened". Because the issue ISN'T that your xWH is gay, it's that he lied to you for the entirety of your M making it a sham M. That's what you are coping with. A double betrayal of infidelity AND a sham M. That your xWH is gay? That has nothing to do with it.

The men/people you want in your life? The ones who respond "oh honey, that must have been tough, I really admire you for coping as well as you have." Fuck anybody else who hones in on the gay part. It's nothing but a red herring. You need to remember that.



"The difference between involvement and commitment is like ham and eggs. The chicken is involved, the pig is committed." -Martina Navratilova
"The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me." -Ayn Rand

Posts: 3124 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Mexico
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 8:47 AM, July 19th (Friday)

The men/people you want in your life? The ones who respond "oh honey, that must have been tough, I really admire you for coping as well as you have." Fuck anybody else who hones in on the gay part. It's nothing but a red herring. You need to remember that.

Thank you, cayc. I think that is the reaction that best suits me and my kids.


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4186 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: South
OnceInALifetime
Member
Member # 26023
Default  Posted: 9:34 AM, July 19th (Friday)

Sorry, I got the wrong impression. From your last post, I understand better where you're coming from.


BH, now divorced

Posts: 3012 | Registered: Oct 2009
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 11:02 AM, July 19th (Friday)

Question for you and I am not asking to offend or upset just curious, why do you feel you need to tell potential dates that particular piece of information so early in the process?

Bingo. I know this has already been mentioned and I understand your response. I was very turned off by guys that shared too much in the "screening" stage. One went back damn near to his first wet dream. And that was in the first 45 min.

You can get a good feel of how they are. Any racism or bigotry and there would be no way.

I know that you say you're 3 years out and 90% over it but if you come to terms with that it will be presented by you when the time comes in such a way that there won't be any need for a response.

I think it's still very hard for you and have a feeling they' could be reacting to that as much as the "gay" piece. I don't know anyone who doesn't have gay friends or family members. I don't think it's a foreign concept along with knowing sometimes coming out is a very painful process with casualties like girl friends and marriages along the way.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 12:54 PM, July 19th (Friday)

I know that you say you're 3 years out and 90% over it but if you come to terms with that it will be presented by you when the time comes in such a way that there won't be any need for a response.

I think it's still very hard for you and have a feeling they' could be reacting to that as much as the "gay" piece.

Nah. I check in with my IC every now and then. I've asked her point blank how I'm doing. She agrees I am very much over my marriage. Honestly, I can't imagine a time it won't hurt a little...ever. But, I group that in with the same feeling I have with having 3 miscarriages. I have two healthy children and would not change anything. But, I still experience pain when discussing the babies I lost. Same feeling...at least to me. I lost those babies over 10 years ago, still painful.

IC and I discuss the remainder of my healing will probably be in a supportive relationship. I just need the right guy to come along

I've seen the reactions, the looks, the responses when I tell guys. I've been at the soccer games, I've heard the gay jokes, the "why didn't you KNOW?" questions, I've seen the pity looks, the confused looks, the guys that poof. The ones that tell me they "just don't understand how...."

Am I frustrated that I have an additional...burden...beyond infidelity? Yeah, today I am. It literally sucks that I KNOW some men are going to not be interested because of choices by my ex. But, it can't be changed. It is what it is. I just have to figure out how to weed them out without getting attached first. KWIM?

SI ~ I can vent and think without exposing the peeps IRL. My peeps protect me and don't necessarily give me a neutral place to think.

[This message edited by cmego at 1:30 PM, July 19th (Friday)]


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4186 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: South
myperfectlife
Member
Member # 39801
Default  Posted: 4:25 PM, July 19th (Friday)

I also live in the midwest-very conservative area and I do not think its a big deal to let people know this information sooner than later.
There are less people who accept homosexuality here than those who are bigots. Although I see that it is changing with my kids' generation.

Maybe this guy was using humor as a defense mechanism because he was shocked or he was trying to deflate the tension.
Doesn't mean he is a bigot, maybe he just uses humor to deflect.
I know I have shocked many, many people with my sense of humor and dry wit through my roller coaster.
The other day an old friend commented on my weight loss. He had just heard THAT day of my WS affair.
I said to him and his wife "Yeah, I get down to my hs weight so I guess that means my (WS) can put his dick in someone else."

AWKWARD.
Then I was like...sorry sorry...it was bad!
Humor IS a way of connecting people.
And everyone's sense of humor is different. My niece is mixed and she will sit down with me and tell me the most ridiculous racial jokes ever. Because she's comfortable with me and the subject.
Maybe it was just a mutual case of awkward.


I cannot be responsible for another's personal growth.
DDay#1 of a "cheatillion" 4/1/13
Divorce final 11/04/13

Posts: 452 | Registered: Jul 2013
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 5:22 PM, July 19th (Friday)

I lost those babies over 10 years ago, still painful.

I get that. We lost a twin. Stillborn. I'll never "get over" that. I also wouldn't tell someone on a first date.

I know it's a little different with your ex. I still feel that it's a pretty big piece to share on a first date.

If you'd "lose" someone because of that information not a real loss. I know getting it out there can save future heartache, possibly. I also think that someone's initial reaction may not be how they'd react after some time to get to know you. Assumptions can be made about someone based on how information is revealed and when that may not be accurate.

I'm sorry you're having to go through this. I kind of get a little of that as I live in a rather small town. When some would find out who my ex was they'd be less interested as he's rather intimidating. It's who they'd have to deal with so if they have an issue then that was better they didn't hang around.

The right one will be supportive and not judgmental. Mine was.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 5:59 PM, July 19th (Friday)

The right one will be supportive and not judgmental. Mine was.

^^^^this.


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4186 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: South
Lilypad
Member
Member # 36399
Default  Posted: 9:45 AM, July 20th (Saturday)

I'm sorry you are having to deal with this.

My dad divorced my mom because he was gay and my brother is also gay.

One of my ex boyfriends was always so paranoid about my brother. Was worried that he would be checking him out. Like really? I'm his sister he doesn't do that. And I told him that he wasn't his type anyways and he almost looked insulted!

I think men have a hard time with this because they question their own sexuality and wonder if it could possibly happen to them.

I give you kudos for not putting up with the crap people say and wanting to make this easy for your children. And yes, you should be upfront about it.

My dad was gay and I didn't care, he was still my dad and I loved him. I had relatives and friends make comments they thought were funny and quite frankly they just hurt. It's not like we asked for that. My dad got married and had kids because that is what they did back then. They had to hide who they were.

No child should be made to feel ashamed of their parent because they are gay.

Edited to add that my parents were married for 12 years and my mom had no idea that he was gay, until he finally told her.

[This message edited by Lilypad at 9:51 AM, July 20th (Saturday)]


“You can make mistakes, but you are not a failure until you blame others for those mistakes.” -John Wooden

Posts: 121 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: Canada
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 10:35 AM, July 20th (Saturday)

I think men have a hard time with this because they question their own sexuality and wonder if it could possibly happen to them.

This with a twist. If someone has had a time in their life they were bi-curious and acted on this then that equates to promiscuity because we know only 100% hetero's are faithful

Joe Rogan summed it up with a recent statement, somewhat loosly paraphrased "Those anti gay are either dumb or secretly worried c@&$s are delicious." Apparently, marriage takes care of that "concern" for many women with a certainty they aren't.

I'm just fuckin' with y'all. Nothing like a lil sexism early in the morning. Good times, good times


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
OnceInALifetime
Member
Member # 26023
Default  Posted: 3:55 PM, July 20th (Saturday)

I think men have a hard time with this because they question their own sexuality and wonder if it could possibly happen to them.

Some men, for sure. And I suspect the more hardline someone is against gays, the more likely this is to be the case.

Maybe it's just the state I happen to live in, but I haven't personally come across that sort of bigotry since I was a kid.

[This message edited by OnceInALifetime at 4:04 PM, July 20th (Saturday)]


BH, now divorced

Posts: 3012 | Registered: Oct 2009
Lilypad
Member
Member # 36399
Default  Posted: 4:11 PM, July 20th (Saturday)

Some men, for sure. And I suspect the more hardline someone is against gays, the more likely this is to be the case.

I should have said some men, I know that not all men feel like that.

The irony is that these men who are against it are usually the ones that have no problem watching porn with two women together. Talk about double standards!


“You can make mistakes, but you are not a failure until you blame others for those mistakes.” -John Wooden

Posts: 121 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: Canada
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 8:08 PM, July 20th (Saturday)

Do you know the few guys I have dated...most ask a million questions.

"You mean he had sex with men, then came home and had sex with you????"

Yes.

"So...how??"

I don't know.

"I don't understand how someone does that!! I just don't understand..how?"

You are heterosexual. He isn't.

"How did you NOT know???"

Because I believed what he told me.

"So you were having sex? What kind, how often?? Did you wear a strap-on? (seriously...I was out to dinner with my fSO, a friend and her bf. Her bf asked me if I wore a strap on during sex. I froze. My fSO joked it off to deflect the question...).

Because my ex is gay...it seems to then open my sex life.

OIAL...you aren't having to be around people who are really facing their views on homosexuality/bisexuality when they date you.


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4186 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: South
OnceInALifetime
Member
Member # 26023
Default  Posted: 9:29 PM, July 20th (Saturday)

OIAL...you aren't having to be around people who are really facing their views on homosexuality/bisexuality when they date you.

Not entirely true. I've told some dates about my XW's sexcapades. She hooked up with both men and women (probably horses and goats, too), but none of my dates keyed in on the bisexual stuff. Hell, I never keyed in on that. It was all just betrayal, period.

The worst response I got was from a woman who asked me what I might have done to make XW cheat. Fuck off, lady. But everyone else simply expressed surprise and understanding.

Sucks that your dates have focused not on the betrayal, but rather their own lewd curiosity.


BH, now divorced

Posts: 3012 | Registered: Oct 2009
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 10:23 PM, July 20th (Saturday)

She hooked up with both men and women (probably horses and goats, too),

Right, because that's the natural progression.

Cmego, I understand. I have actually gotten some of the same shit when I've chosen to share a bit of my history although it's quite different at first. Very excited, then assume promiscuity and would need a homing device.

That's when those boundaries become steel fortresses. Not up for discussion or any further dates. Period.

You are not a research project or on trial and they don't get to depose you.

Trust then share. I'm so sorry. Makes me quite pissed for you.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 10:42 PM, July 20th (Saturday)

Men are very focused on sex. Women are naturally more sympathetic, empathetic and...kind. Men just aren't. They want sexual details to...help them understand, I guess.

I remember discussing with my fSO about WHY my former sex life fascinated people. I didn't ask fSO about his sex life with his former wife. Why do people find mine so interesting? Because it is like Jerry Springer? I think it is back to closet bigotry. The "strap-on" comment floored me. From that guy's perspective...it was a "joke".

I don't know. It just is.

I haven't figured most of this out yet. I just keep hoping that the right guy will come along and it will just work out.

Not sure about OLD right now. That just doesn't seem to be working for me, so I'm going to step back for a bit. School is starting in a few weeks and I'm going to be slammed.

I think I get tired of thinking about it. I'm so used to being on my own, it feels like such a waste of my time to try and date. Like, it isn't going to happen, not on OLD. I think someone probably needs to meet me the "old fashioned way" so they can meet ME.


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4186 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: South
OnceInALifetime
Member
Member # 26023
Default  Posted: 10:52 PM, July 20th (Saturday)

uncertainone, you misunderstand. My XW was into anything and everything, from group sex to guys that would hit her.

Permit me to mock my XW's rampant, all-inclusive sexual proclivities.


BH, now divorced

Posts: 3012 | Registered: Oct 2009
OnceInALifetime
Member
Member # 26023
Default  Posted: 10:56 PM, July 20th (Saturday)

Men aren't sympathetic, empathetic and mind? If that's the case, what do women see in them?


BH, now divorced

Posts: 3012 | Registered: Oct 2009
thyme2go
Member
Member # 12908
Default  Posted: 12:00 AM, July 21st (Sunday)

Not entirely true. I've told some dates about my XW's sexcapades. She hooked up with both men and women (probably horses and goats, too), but none of my dates keyed in on the bisexual stuff.

t/j

Seriously? This is what you discuss on dates while trying to get to know someone? I do not ask about and I do not tell past sexual history... ever.

end t/j

Women are naturally more sympathetic, empathetic and...kind. Men just aren't.

Not true, at all. I am, almost to a fault and I have paid dearly.


-t2g


BH - no longer 48
3 DD's - (27, 24 and 17)
Divorced on 8/6/09

Posts: 9188 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: Eastern Washington
FirstLoveGone
Member
Member # 25957
Default  Posted: 12:05 AM, July 21st (Sunday)

Cmego - I can honestly say I have no idea what you are going through.

But perhaps folks questioning you about your situation is just curiosity and not closeted bigotness or some other nefarious reason.

You, of course, can set hard and firm boundaries on whether and how you answer questions. And if you aren't getting a good vibe from someone them you should trust your gut.

But I think labeling someone as a bigot or homophobe may be judging them too harshly. I think those words are used to easily, just as the word "racist" is.

I am of a minority race here in America. I have come across my fair share of "jokes" and people ask me ignorant questions about my culture and race quite often. But I don't automatically label them a bigot or racist until I see a strong case for it.

I think some folks are just truly unknowledgeable, ignorant, or curious. I try my best to educate them. You may not want to put in that effort. That's your prerogative.

I just don't want you to pass up an opportunity for connecting with someone (not necessarily this guy) because they have made a stupid remark without any malice.


Posts: 1274 | Registered: Oct 2009
InnerLight
Member
Member # 19946
Default  Posted: 12:25 AM, July 21st (Sunday)

You are free to set your boundaries where you want to, but to be open to discussing your ex's sex life with new dates but then dislike the conversations seems to point to the need to reset your conversational boundaries. Why should anyone who meets you get to have this personal info on your kids dad? This is privaledged material and it seems a date ought to show some worthiness before getting there with you.

I know you said you've waited to divulge and it hasn't helped but it has to cut down at least somewhat on insensitive comments.

I also do not ask SO for sexual details about his past and he doesn't ask me. He is a gentleman and would not answer even if I asked about the sex life of ex's.


BS, age 53, d-day 6-2-08, divorced after 17 years and 20 together. Now I am living alone in the beautiful rural property that was once the dream retreat with X. It's taking a long time to create new dreams but despite some struggles I am mostly happy.

Posts: 5862 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Rural California
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 12:49 AM, July 21st (Sunday)

Permit me to mock my XW's rampant, all-inclusive sexual proclivities.

Mock away. I would think considering the make up of our board there might be some sensitivity to the all too common tie in between sexual orientation and beastiality.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 6:46 AM, July 21st (Sunday)

Well, like I said before...this is a sticky wicket. There isn't a right answer. It depends on so many factors.

For ME, I feel more comfortable telling guys sooner rather then later. Maybe I will go back to telling later and know I run the risk of the "freaked out date". After him...I started telling guys sooner.

The problem with "educating people", is that I am then put into a position to defend ex...or kids Dad's..and it mostly involves my former sex life. None of it fun for me, but I understand most people are simply curious. But, they are curious about my former sex life.

Women are naturally more sympathetic, empathetic and...kind. Men just aren't.
Not true, at all. I am, almost to a fault and I have paid dearly.

I"m talking in general terms. There is never all/only.


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4186 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: South
NaiveAgain
Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 5:58 AM, July 22nd (Monday)

t literally sucks that I KNOW some men are going to not be interested because of choices by my ex. But, it can't be changed. It is what it is. I just have to figure out how to weed them out without getting attached first. KWIM?
There are plenty of other ways of weeding guys out other than letting them know the sexual preferences of your WS.

With some people, I have outright casually told them my WS was a SA and was doing hookers, dating sites, webcams with other men and who knows what else.....but when I casually tell someone, that is because I don't give a shit about their reaction. If they judge, who cares? I'm not invested in that person.

When I am dating someone and wanting an emotional bond....I will decide on a person-by-person basis on who gets how many skeletons how quickly....with some men, they are very empathetic and I can open up right off and we can both share ....with some men, it takes longer, and with others, I would never tell them. That is because I wait until I get a good "feel" on the guy and how he handles things and different situations.

There are other ways to find out if the guy you are dating is going to be a bit more open-minded. Talk about politics and religion (big no-nos to some, but for me....a person's view on those things tells me a lot about how that person will probably handle some of the weird and unusual shit that is my life). Plus, that can get a person opening up about their own life. Guys that have been thru their own traumas and unusual situations are going to be more open-minded about things.

Another thing is that when you are going on a first or second date with someone you really don't know, even if you have had a major loss....they are not going to be invested in you enough to show any real sympathy and caring. For someone to truly care about you and your situation, they have to know you. That takes time. And if you get to know someone over a period of time, and you like that person, you will be more open and understanding about ANYTHING that has happened to them or they are dealing with, because at that point you know and care about the person and you aren't just making a quick judgment on them from a small amount of information.

You know what else? There may be guys you date that you are weeding out too quickly because you are throwing the sexual orientation thing at them so quickly before they have a chance to get to know you, and if you got to know them, they may actually be a bit more open-minded. There are some people that are racist, homophobic, and prejudiced, and they will NEVER change. There are some people that may have some racist/homophobic ideas but some education will totally open up their minds.


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 15291 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 7:07 AM, July 22nd (Monday)

Well, I guess if I "throw out the gay card" and the guys pull back, they aren't the guy for me. Reality is, life throws us shit all. the. freaking. time, and if they can't roll with the punches, they aren't going to be the guy for me.

I will hold off on any guy in the future until I have at least met him, or he directly asks. I don't talk about all the other stuff, there was multiple LTA, hidden money, separate lives, NPD along with the emotional and psychological garbage he threw at me. Plus, my kids. That all waits until much, much later.

For me, the bottom line of what I think may be important is wether a guy can be accepting of a gay couple. Ex is in the kids life and is pushing me hard for the boyfriend to be included in everything.


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4186 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: South
damncutekitty
Member
Member # 5929
Default  Posted: 10:02 PM, July 22nd (Monday)

Personally, I don't like to discuss painful stuff from the past with new people. I was dating my current SO for a while before I felt comfortable talking about my XH. (we were dating for months before I opened up about other things) I don't think ex talk is romantic or sexy. It's just not a great conversation topic for new dates.

There are ways to find out people's political/religious leanings without telling about your ex.

IMO it's not being dishonest to wait until you have established trust or gotten close to someone before talking about your past.


Keep calm and carry on.

Posts: 49482 | Registered: Nov 2004 | From: Minneapolis
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 8:09 AM, July 23rd (Tuesday)

That is the point I'm trying to make. I don't discuss my past with ex either. I wait on all of the mind fuckery until I'm IN a relationship with someone. So, only my fSO knows what I went through.

The gay stuff is my present. Not my past.

Dunno. Off OLD for now, no one interesting is on right now.


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4186 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: South
InnerLight
Member
Member # 19946
Default  Posted: 10:27 AM, July 23rd (Tuesday)

Do you know right away if you like a guy enough for dating? I need to meet someone several times to see their energy in many settings to see if I really like them. I am testing my own pleasure in their presence. I want to see if food tastes good when I eat with them, or if I can enjoy nature when I walk outside with them, if I can delight in music when I am in their presence. I want to see how I can experience pleasure in their presence. It would cut off that discovery process to go right to challenging conversations in the first 3-5 dates.

Dating is about pleasure. To see if you can have it with that person. Many you just can't.


BS, age 53, d-day 6-2-08, divorced after 17 years and 20 together. Now I am living alone in the beautiful rural property that was once the dream retreat with X. It's taking a long time to create new dreams but despite some struggles I am mostly happy.

Posts: 5862 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Rural California
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 12:36 PM, July 23rd (Tuesday)

No, I am a very much immediate "yes/no" person with dating. But, with that said, I've tried to go on a few more dates with guys I felt "no" for...just to make sure. My opinions don't change.

And, generally, I've thought "no" before I've even met them. I generally get a pretty good sense of who I am going to "click" with online. So far, no surprises...

There has been only one guy I would have liked to have seen again (that didn't work out) from OLD. He did contact me after our first date and we chatted, but he travelled for work and when he was home, had his children. His time was very limited and I don't think he was ready to rearrange things for a relationship, so it just puttered out.

My only "real" relationship post S was with a guy that came with a huge set of baggage and was not ready to date. We were each other's "firsts" and it was a slow build. I knew right away I would click with him, and he confessed later he fell in love the first time we hung out as friends. We both knew we shouldn't, but we ended up together. It went on for about 5 months and then it was a mutual end. He and I occasionally run into each other, but he is going through women like tissues right now. I want no part of him any longer.

When I met my ex, it was the same way...immediate interest, and he pursued me like crazy. We were engaged 5 months later.

I'm like that with girlfriends too. I know right away if we are going to hit it off...and I have a strong and close supportive network of amazing friends.

I'm still processing this too...


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4186 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: South
WhiteWolfWinning
Member
Member # 12475
Default  Posted: 8:55 PM, July 23rd (Tuesday)

First of all, as someone else stated...I have NO idea how it feels to have gone through what you did with your Ex.

But I'm going to ask you to think about something with regards to the timing of you disclosing what happened with him to men you date.

Let them get to know you for who you are now. You have been forced to face, and teach to your kids, a certain kind of acceptance and tolerance. That has certainly been hard won, but it is part of who yo ARE.

After a guy gets to know you, his response to your bombshell might be very different than it would have been before he knew you. The right guy will see that you have processed this horrifying situation with grace and with the goal of doing the right thing for your kids. He is far less likely to pepper you with silly questions, because he already knows you. He knows you are a loving soul who simply believed in her husband. He knows that you don't tolerate intolerance.

In the meantime, you will also know him. There are plenty of ways you can find out if someone is a bigot without revealing your situation.

Wolf
And, about this guy ...I'd give him a pass on his remark. He was taken by surprise and simply didn't know what to say. Having said something stupid in this situation doesn't mean that he'll continue to make dumb remarks. You'll find that out soon enough.


Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply, Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God

Thank you, Lord, for the lightness of my burdens


Posts: 8233 | Registered: Oct 2006 | From: midwest
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 11:36 PM, July 23rd (Tuesday)

And, about this guy ...I'd give him a pass on his remark. He was taken by surprise and simply didn't know what to say. Having said something stupid in this situation doesn't mean that he'll continue to make dumb remarks. You'll find that out soon enough.

I was honest with the guy and told him the "joke" turned my blood cold. He told me he knew it was inappropriate (in hindsight), and "in defense, I am a people pleaser and I thought you would think it was funny." and asked for another chance. The more I thought, the more inappropriate it became. It was emailed to me, and we all know in that early "email stage" of OLD, we check our emails multiple times and are thinking how best to respond. Therefore he had multiple times to read that joke and remove it from the email. He had to think about sending me the joke. I just wasn't interested any longer. Maybe he isn't a bigot, but he certainly thinks making fun of people is appropriate, and I don't.

All I can describe is that my blood went cold and starting on a negative just doesn't work for me. If I knew the guy and this had happened, then I would be willing to talk it out...but I don't have the energy to try with a guy that I already don't...respect.

When I feel like dating again, I think I will not mention anything until a date or two. I can't lie, or even "skirt" an issue...so if they ask me, I'm going to tell them.

I have definitely fought to be in the healing place I'm in. I do find myself to be "colder" than I used to be, and I think it has to do with firming up my boundaries. I am learning to protect myself first. I may need to work on that balance of keeping my softness while having firm boundaries.


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4186 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: South
peridot
Member
Member # 18334
Default  Posted: 6:44 PM, July 26th (Friday)

My XH is bisexual. However, he hasn't "come out of the closet". I stood there with the proof in his face and he still denied it.

I don't bring it up. I don't see any need to bring it up, even if he was open about being bisexual.

Even just a few dates is too soon. I wouldn't worry about until you are in a serious relationship or it's going that way. You should be able to find their views on gays just by normal conversation.

For what it's worth, one of the guys I dated and later became friends with did not tell me for nearly a year that his son is gay. It was also something that he brought up in a normal conversation. It wasn't just something he came out and blurted.


I think...therefore, I'm single.

It is what it is.


Posts: 4788 | Registered: Feb 2008
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 7:28 PM, July 26th (Friday)

I had an IC appointment today, and we had a long talk about all of this.

She totally agrees with how I handle things, and we discussed...if I ever do OLD again...actually putting in my profile that my ex is gay. It will weed people out even easier. I don't think I will, but I am going to continue to be open and up front about MY life. As my IC said, there is still a lot of bigotry out there, hidden or not.

I told her the story of the man I was emailing (and the sexual gay innuendo) and her first reaction was "Eww!". Which was my first reaction too. Totally validated my reaction as being spot on. She said, "You didn't give him a second chance, did you?!!" Nope. I didn't. My gut told me to walk away, and I did.

What I have been feeling in myself, though, is a cold...feeling. Not as empathic as I used to be, a colder part to me that I don't like. We discussed a recent contact with my fSO, where I reacted very coldly. IC said, "cmego, that is not who you are. I think it is time to take a breather for a little while." And I agree. I don't want to lose my ability to be empathetic and nurturing, and I feel it slipping a little bit right now. I don't want to end up hating all men by what a few have chosen to act like. I want that wonderful naivety back, the hope that there may one day be a wonderful man in my life.

And, I'm going to continue being me. Plenty of guys haven't reacted poorly to my ex, so I know it isn't the way I'm delivering "the news". I believe in open and honest communication. Holding it back so I don't "scare someone away" or whatever, wouldn't be me.

"Don't allow your wounds to turn you into someone you are not."

^^^This is what I'm going to remind myself for a little while.


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4186 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: South
InnerLight
Member
Member # 19946
Default  Posted: 12:24 AM, July 27th (Saturday)

That's great that you had a helpful talk with your IC and feel validated. I hope you don't interpret my thoughts on focusing on lighter topics in early dating as being contrary to open and honest communication. That's a very strong value I have too. It's just about timing and finding a way to enjoy dating so its easier to stay open to possibilities. Who cares if you scare a guy! It's just having to engage with idiots over your very private issues that is a waste of energy and time. We all have our different ways and pacing around revealing and protecting our peace.

[This message edited by InnerLight at 12:27 AM, July 27th (Saturday)]


BS, age 53, d-day 6-2-08, divorced after 17 years and 20 together. Now I am living alone in the beautiful rural property that was once the dream retreat with X. It's taking a long time to create new dreams but despite some struggles I am mostly happy.

Posts: 5862 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Rural California
ExposedNiblet
Member
Member # 30803
Default  Posted: 1:44 AM, July 27th (Saturday)

I have been following this thread with great interest. While I cannot imagine what you have gone through, I do understand what it's like to be raising children in a family with gay family members. My brother is gay, as is XH's brother. I will not tolerate "jokes" made at their expense, regardless of who tells them, any more than I would tolerate racial jokes, or jokes about the handicapped.

cmego, I wanted to tell you that I admire your honesty and the openness with which you share your story. I am proud of you for following your heart (or gut, whichever works) when making your decisions.

Although I am nowhere near ready to date, when I am, I too would hope to weed out those whose views do not match mine in this regard. I plan on being very upfront when discussing my own family, just as you are.

You are a wonderful, strong woman, and I'd like to thank you for inspiring me.

Thank you.


Divorced
Me ($39.95 plus S & H)
DS1(17), DS2(15)

Enjoying this chapter in my life.
Learning that being alone does not mean being lonely.
Discovering that where I've been is not as important as where I'm going.


Posts: 355 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Right Here, Canada
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 6:39 AM, July 27th (Saturday)

Thank you, guys!

I am discovering that part of the healing/growing process is being comfortable with yourself and your decisions.

Being able to "rock" who I am.

I've been feeling very "Pinterest-y" today. I have a quote board I go to read when I'm turning things over in my mind. My current fans:

"The wise person questions himself, the fool others."

"Sometimes the questions are complicated and the answers are simple."

"In the end, only three things matter: how much you loved, how gently you lived, and how gracefully you let go of things not meant for you."


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4186 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: South
Topic Posts: 67