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Just Found Out
User Topic: When the WS is into Prostitutes and/or Anonymous Encounters
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 5:36 PM, July 23rd (Tuesday)

There is a need for this particular topic to be addressed in a reference thread in JFO. Time and time again, more newbies under these circumstances come to this site looking for support, and all the advice appears to not really fit their situation and they begin to wonder if they really belong here. I want to provide the info needed to understand that they do, and all the advice is valid, but needs slightly different interpretation to be helpful.

The initial posting will be in five parts. Please feel free to contribute additional info and I welcome your feedback to make it better and more complete.

DISCLAIMER: I just wanted to clarify I don't think when your WS is into prostitutes/anonymous encounters that it is a worse pain than any other infidelity or that it is vastly different from the infidelity all of us experience at SI. But when you have JFO, and you come to SI in the beginning, it seems like it is. And in addition, there are unique specific issues that need to be addressed when you have been betrayed by someone who has used prostitutes or had anonymous encounters. This thread will explain why.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 5:36 PM, July 23rd (Tuesday)

PART ONE: Introduction

So you just got blindsided with this new discovery about your WS, and usually it appears the vast majority of posts at any given time on SI are about dealing with WS with APs and thus the advice is geared toward that. How the "fog" is about the WS being in "lurve" with the AP, how NC is so important, how exposing the affair is important if they refuse NC for example. To someone who just found out their spouse was into prostitutes/anonymous encounters, it would appear none of this applies. Their WS is not in "lurve" with any of their ďpartnersĒ. The idea that they would write a NC letter to them is laughable. Often exposure of the activities is not possible because it could get them fired, or in some cases (law enforcement, lawyer, etc.) could have them lose their license. So the critically wounded BS with this history that comes here wonders how they fit in at SI and how it can help.

The truth is almost all WS follow the same handbook and walk the same path in becoming broken, going astray, and dealing with being found out. The effects on the BS are all devastating, regardless of the situation. The only difference is certain situations require a slightly different application of the advice here, and a WS into prostitutes and/or anonymous encounters is only one of them. For example, NC. No, they don't write a NC letter to their hookers. But they agree to never call them, email them, visit websites that solicit them, go to places where they will be present (bachelor parties, vegas trips, etc). They may be cut off from the cash so they can't make expenditures that can't be tracked. Etc. In addition to the usual advice, like they give up their secret phones, secret email accounts, and volunteer full transparency on phone records, online usage, and maybe even allow themselves to be GPS tracked to prove they are where they say they are.

So just because initially it appears you have no place here, and the advice appears to not really apply to you doesn't mean that it is so. The principles are the same, the applications are just different. Post your specific questions on your own threads, and the many of us with the same issues that have BTDT can help you. And just because someone else's WS had a different kind of infidelity does not mean they can't help you. Some of the best advice I have gotten here for my particular situation were from people whose WS couldn't even bear to look at a hooker. You belong here, and you can get the support you need here.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 5:37 PM, July 23rd (Tuesday)

PART TWO: What You Should Know Before You Do Anything

Here's my two cents. This is what I have gleaned from SI and other BSs that had WS that used prostitutes and/or anonymous encounters:

As I stated, the "fog", TT, 180 etc. you read on here does apply, but in a slightly different way. It is very very hard to see the difference when you JFO. I know that it seems totally different right now, but after you have had some proper healing under your belt, it will make more sense later. Keep this in mind as you wade through everything as you heal.

IME and from what I have heard from others with a WS with a history of prostitutes and/or anonymous encounters, almost NEVER does the WS fess up to the real body count upfront. It is always at least double. Mine was more than 10x the amount. Yes, you could say gaslighting and TT is the same for all WS, but the consequences and aftermath of many escorts/anonymous encounters is different than finding out the EA was a PA, the PA was a LTA, there were 10 ONS instead of 2. It is not necessarily a worse pain, just different and requires different processing. What is important to understand now is, you donít know the whole story and it is likely worse than you know.

IME and from what I have heard from others with similar experience, the WS always blames the BS. Goes to great lengths to do so, even if they don't appear to blame the BS at all. It is all part of the gaslighting, which while common with most WS, is often more advanced when prostitutes or anonymous partners are involved. This crazy acting, blaming the BS is to take the focus off on you finding out the body count (and other actions) is way worse than you know. And to hope you will be so busy doubting yourself or needing to know the "full" story that you won't actually take action against them. Again, same stuff all WS do, but in this case they are trying to keep you from knowing about the much greater increased chance of STDs, hiding the missing money that was spent on illegal activities, arrest reports, etc. The shame and consequences from the truth getting out is different, and may have further reaching effects, KWIM?

IME and from what I have heard from others with similar experience, garden variety IC (for either of you) and MC is usually not helpful in this case, and in fact it can make it infinitely worse for the BS. You as the BS need at the very least a trauma specialist and/or an infidelity specialist for IC, and honestly at least an evaluation by someone certified or at least educated in sex addiction would be best. MC is not really advisable at this point. The WS has to be *extremely* broken to consider going to prostitutes or anonymous encounters repeatedly, the risk for disease, personal safety, and trouble with the law is much higher than someone that has an affair or affairs/multiple ONS. Not that WS with other infidelity issues arenít capable of being as broken or worse - just that because multiple prostitutes/anonymous encounters are involved, the level of brokenness is already pretty high. That brokenness has to be addressed before any real MC can begin.

I highly recommend reading all the books in the first post of the Spouses of of Sex Addicts thread in I Can Relate forum. Even if your WS is not a sex addict, the consequences and effects on you are the same and these resources will provide the insight you are not getting in the books you have read so far.

Whatever you do, don't think any of it is your fault. This I can promise you is not true.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 5:38 PM, July 23rd (Tuesday)

PART THREE: Adjusting the SI Advice Accordingly:

Here are some terms you will see that may need some adjustment in their application:

THE FOG: Often this is described as the WS being in a fantasy land regarding their relationship with the AP. In this case, the fog is the mental state they have achieved to allow themselves to be able to cheat with prostitutes and/or anonymous encounters. It is the self-serving, justifying, blameshifting, lying to themselves and others, compartmentalization, etc. mental environment they have created to be able to do these things.

NO CONTACT: Obviously a letter is not appropriate here. What is appropriate is shutting down all means of communication (secret phone, regular phone, email accounts, website accounts, etc.) used for infidelity. Commitment to not going to places where this activity occurs (adult bookstores, strip clubs, houses of prostitiution, Vegas-type places, Bachelor or Bachelorette parties, etc.). Not hanging out with people that would support or promote these kinds of activities (AKA not friends of the M).

TRANSPARENCY: BS has access to all phone and text logs, email accounts, internet histories, monetary transactions. Complete and total financial disclosure (which you should verify with a credit report or other financial forensic research). In addition, WS may be asked to not do cash transactions that canít be verified for the comfort of the BS. The WS may be asked to have their whereabouts confirmed by GPS, phone call/phone picture check-ins for the comfort of the BS. The WS should not see this as a punishment but a consequence of their actions, and as an opportunity to establish trustworthiness again.

TRICKLE TRUTH: I am going to say I have NEVER EVER heard of anyone busted with a history of prostitutes or anonymous encounters has EVER come 100% clean upon initial confrontation. The TT with this variety of WS is always present and usually pretty bad. Until you can confirm with a polygraph, always assume there is more you donít know.

GASLIGHTING: For the WS to allow themselves to get into a mental state to allow this kind of infidelity to happen, and do the work to conceal their tracks, already puts them in the advanced category of gaslighters. It simply could not have occurred without significant gaslighting. The problem is they are so good at it, you donít know you were being gaslighted and will feel like you never were. It will take a lot of time and therapy to show you how wrong that is. Be gentle with yourself and accept that you have been gaslighted even if you donít see it now, and let the healing unfold naturally.

EAT/DRINK/REST/EXERCISE: This is the same for all BS. Donít take this lightly - make sure all four are incorporated into your life right now, and continue to be. You need to be in the best physical condition you can be to battle these demons.

The 180: This part also requires no real adjustments, it is all the same for all BS. However, it does require additional components you need to address. You have to take medical and legal precautions that may not otherwise be required. These will be explained in Part Four.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 5:38 PM, July 23rd (Tuesday)

PART FOUR: Issues specific to those betrayed by someone with prostitutes and anonymous encounters.

First, you need to get tested for STDs. The FULL panel, not just the stuff you would get at a regular OB checkup or Planned Parenthood visit. You will need to tell your doctor or whoever is doing the tests that you have been sexually active with a partner with prostitute and/or anonymous encounter experience so they understand you need additional testing. This is an extremely awful experience, but they need to know so they can give you every test available. A starter list includes HIV, Syphilis, both Herpes (which you will likely have one strain because most people do), Gonorrhea, and HPV. To do all these tests require blood, urine, and swab so if you have not had all three, you have not had all these tests. In addition, if you are female, you should also consider any bacterial vaginosis tests, bacterial STDs (including ureaplasma, mycoplasma genitalium, trichomonas, gardnerella, mobiluncus mulieris, and mobiluncus curtisi), yeast tests (c. tropicalis, c. krusei, c. dubliniensus, c. glabrata, c. parapsilosis, c. albicans.) that are available to females.

Second, you need to get full bloodwork done and a regular physical. Chances are much greater your body is deficient in something and it will get worse with the trauma you are currently dealing with. You may also want to talk to your doc about meds for anxiety, depression, or sleep either temporarily or longer term. While these are good ideas for everyone suffering from infidelity, due to the nature of physiological and psychological impact of this particular situation, it is almost guaranteed you need some sort of medical assistance right now.

Third, you need to find an IC for you ASAP. You have been severely traumatized and your journey has just begun. You need professional support to help you through what you will be going through the next few years no matter how it plays out. You need a trauma or infidelity specialist, or someone trained in sex addiction and how it impacts spouses. Even if your WS is not a sex addict the impact on you is the same and requires the same treatment. This is critical, as having a spouse that did this to you is isolating enough, and even with the best family and friends to support you, they are not qualified to help you heal the way you need to. And I have have mentioned before, put MC on the back burner until you both have had more healing under your belt unless communication is so strained it is impossible.

Fourth, you need to see a lawyer to discuss your options. Not only just to understand what they are as far as separation, divorce, spousal or child support, custody and visitation, dividing assets or businesses, etc but also to protect YOU from any legal fallout from the activities of the WS. Even if you think you would never consider D, you need to know what the options are and what would happen if WS files first or is arrested for something related to the infidelity. The WS may rather D than have to address what they have been busted with, and you deserve to be prepared for that. Also, you need to understand what is legal and advantageous to collect as evidence as far as the activity is concerned. You donít want to collect anything in way that is against the law, and you donít want records of illegal activity on public record unless it is necessary. It is best you have this discussion with the lawyer BEFORE WS finds out you consulted one. The choice to tell them you have consulted a L afterward is yours, but donít give them a chance to fill you with doubt before you have consulted one - even if WS appears to be fully cooperative. This is in your best interest.

Fifth, you need to do a full financial discovery of all records. With prostitutes, there is always a money trail. With anonymous encounters, there may be as well in the form of memberships, hotel costs, gifts, etc. There may be a money trail of ED drugs or illicit drugs, because people that are willing to use prostitutes or have anonymous encounters have a lower threshold for this. Get a credit report from all three agencies. Get credit card records, bank statements, etc going back 12 months and look them line by line. Get the W2 and tax records and make sure all income is accounted for. You will be required by your L to do this anyway if you decide to S, D, or do a post-nup. And honestly this is the best evidence of what has really happened you will likely get, and is the only evidence that is always helpful in the event S, D, or post-nup. In addition, you are at increased risk for extreme financial infidelity, and you are entitled to know as that is a dealbreaker for many regardless of sexual infidelity.

Sixth, donít get obsessed with having to know the WHOLE story. It is unlikely you will ever know the full story, the full body count, etc. Instead you need to decide what are your dealbreakers, what you need to feel safe, and what you need to stay in the M if you want to. It is very easy to get sucked into the espionage of collecting more and more evidence, but if it is not conducive to your healing it will only traumatize you further. It doesnít really matter if the body count was 1, 100, or 1,000 or what the activities were - it is all wrong and bad and completely unacceptable without your consent - unless a certain number or activity that is a dealbreaker for YOU. Aside from the financial aspects, it is unlikely any evidence you collect will benefit you legally and will only set back your healing. Do not put yourself in the position that the need to collect evidence has compromised the ability address the things you need to do to heal.

[This message edited by hathnofury at 2:37 PM, September 9th (Monday)]


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 5:38 PM, July 23rd (Tuesday)

PART FIVE: You are not alone

It may not seem like there are a lot of us that can identify with your story, but I promise there are. Lots and lots of us, men and women alike.

Initially you will be completely overwhelmed and devastated. That is normal. You may feel isolated because you donít feel like you can share details with those in your life. Thatís normal too. This is a good, safe place to share with others.

I highly encourage you to share what you are going through, as much as you feel comfortable. You will get a lot of support here, and lots of ideas to think about for what to do. You may feel silly at first, but I promise every response you get will provide insight, and often things you may have not otherwise considered. That being said, I would suggest you not share the things you post and learn here on SI with your WS until serious long-term healing has taken place for both of you. You are at more risk that the info will be used against you than average.

As you heal, you will see that the betrayal is not as different from the others here who are dealing with other varieties of betrayal as it seems right now, while you are freshly and critically wounded. The shame, which you will find is not yours to bear, will lift. You will see that input from others in different circumstances are just as valid and helpful than those in the same circumstances.

Good luck, and welcome to the best club you never wanted to join.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 5:44 PM, July 23rd (Tuesday)

Awesome. Thank you for this.


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,10
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7393 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
1devastedmom
Member
Member # 38399
Default  Posted: 6:15 PM, July 23rd (Tuesday)

This is great! Thank you so much for putting this together.


Me BS: 42
WH: 44
DDay- April 17, 2013
Married 22 years
3 children: 18, 15 & 9
Reconcilling

Posts: 137 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: 1devastedmom
solus sto
Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 6:22 PM, July 23rd (Tuesday)

Well done!


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 52, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8674 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
forgivingnow
Member
Member # 33549
Default  Posted: 8:18 PM, July 23rd (Tuesday)

thank you, for being so organized, supportive & insightful. I feel this is a unique, shameful type of infidelity and I have no one IRL to share this with. I feel like I JFO because of new info. 2 weeks ago. I'm devastated & starting all over. But, subtract infidelity, and our relationship is the best it ever has been, a lot of love & passion, so I am hopeful. I gain so much strength from the strong people who have traveled this path before me. So, again, thank you.


Me-BS 51
FWH-51
M 31 yrs.
Dday 3-19-11, TT 10/2011, Full truth July 2013
Strength comes from within. You can't get it from someone or go somewhere to get it. It is already here, waiting to be used when you need it most. Believe in yourself.
R

Posts: 609 | Registered: Oct 2011
caregiver9000
Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 8:36 PM, July 23rd (Tuesday)

What a thoughtful and informative post ((hathnofury)).

Read a few profiles, including mine, and you will see a wide spectrum of the infidelity experience.

I want to say it yet again: It feels shameful, but it is not your shame. And while you may not want to tell your story in real life, here it is safe and no one will judge you.


Me: 44, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 13 DS 10
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5808 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
painpaingoaway
Member
Member # 27196
Default  Posted: 8:48 PM, July 23rd (Tuesday)

Fantastic post hathnofury. However, I believe part 4 needs to come first. IMO, getting STD tested and seeing a lawyer needs to happen immediately upon discovery.


me BS female 56/him WS 59
Married 33 years
D-day July 09/he gave me his slut's STD
Watch my movie: "My wayward husband's adventures in STD land":
Episode 1: youtu.be/9Jv0-d_CdYc
Episode 2: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tz822H82Gk

Posts: 7056 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Coastal South
Missymomma
Member
Member # 36988
Default  Posted: 9:00 PM, July 23rd (Tuesday)

Nice post, Hath! I would add that joining a support group of some kind is helpful, COSA or S-Anon. Chances are pretty high that someone using prostitutes and/or anonymous encounters is a sex addict. The in person support is priceless. As is reading, books were so helpful for me. The list on the first page of the thread you mentioned, is a great resource.

Also, as you mentioned most ICs are not equipped to handle this, CSATs or an AASAT are the only ones trained in this kind of thing.


DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

Posts: 1084 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Texas
confused71
New Member
Member # 39530
Default  Posted: 9:18 PM, July 23rd (Tuesday)

Thank you for this! It's very helpful for BS's dealing with this particular type of betrayal.


Me: BS 39
Him: WS 44
Married 10 years, cheated at least 7 of those years
Two young DS
Multiple DDays in May 2013, and still waiting for the next DD to strike
Prostitutes abroad and in our home, 2 long-term simultaneous affairs - 1 PA & 1 EA/PA

Posts: 17 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: The Desert
outtanowhere
Member
Member # 39001
Default  Posted: 6:05 AM, July 24th (Wednesday)

Thank you Hath.

When I JFO I scoured this site for any information that related to my special hell but, found only comments from a couple of other newbies. We didn't know until weeks later about the sex addiction & that's when someone directed me to the I Can Relate form. It has been my life line!

You are right on so many levels. I read in all the forums everyday & can see a common thread regardless of what the circumstances are. Thanks for putting this together. I know there will be many who will benefit from your condensed "Paying Cheaters Handbook"!


BS - 57
SAWH - 60 multiple encounters with prostitutes and other sex workers
Married 37 years
Dday - 2/19/13 - found the emails
He promised me Heaven then put me thru hell

Posts: 724 | Registered: Apr 2013
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 7:48 AM, July 24th (Wednesday)

Fantastic post hathnofury. However, I believe part 4 needs to come first. IMO, getting STD tested and seeing a lawyer needs to happen immediately upon discovery.

I tend to agree, and almost wrote it that way. But then I remembered how overwhelming it is when you JFO, and that maybe one needs to process some other things first before seeking medical or legal counsel so one can get ALL the questions one needs answered the first time around. Also, some STDs/infections take up to 30 days to show up on a test. So while in theory they'd show up on the 6 month follow-up tests (which I forgot to put in the original posts that 6 month follow-up tests are necessary, and every year thereafter if you continue to have sex with your WS), that is too long to go without addressing a recent infection of any kind.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
painpaingoaway
Member
Member # 27196
Default  Posted: 8:01 AM, July 24th (Wednesday)

But then I remembered how overwhelming it is when you JFO, and that maybe one needs to process some other things first before seeking medical or legal counsel so one can get ALL the questions one needs answered the first time around.
True, but I can not tell you how shocked and dismayed I was when I finally saw a lawyer maybe a month after D-day and found out that in my (fault) state, the BS only has 90 days from the date of discovery to file for D on the grounds of adultery. If one waits longer than 90 days the courts consider it 'condoning' the adultery.

The clock starts ticking at D-day in my state. I don't know how it works in other states, but I believe it is imperative that one find out ASAP.


me BS female 56/him WS 59
Married 33 years
D-day July 09/he gave me his slut's STD
Watch my movie: "My wayward husband's adventures in STD land":
Episode 1: youtu.be/9Jv0-d_CdYc
Episode 2: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tz822H82Gk

Posts: 7056 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Coastal South
painpaingoaway
Member
Member # 27196
Default  Posted: 8:03 AM, July 24th (Wednesday)

But, I do believe you have written a fabulous, thoughtful, and helpful post. Thank you so much for the time and effort that went into it!


me BS female 56/him WS 59
Married 33 years
D-day July 09/he gave me his slut's STD
Watch my movie: "My wayward husband's adventures in STD land":
Episode 1: youtu.be/9Jv0-d_CdYc
Episode 2: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tz822H82Gk

Posts: 7056 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Coastal South
Bobbi_sue
Member
Member # 10347
Default  Posted: 8:14 AM, July 24th (Wednesday)

My first H had more prostitutes than he can remember. I came to this site because of what my current H did, which had nothing to do with that lifestyle.

the WS always blames the BS.

My XH never once blamed me for this.

Third, you need to find an IC for you ASAP. You have been severely traumatized and your journey has just begun.
Counseling is not for everyone, no matter what they may have gone through. Some of us find our own ways to cope and deal with such trauma. I have gone to a few counselors in my life, but they were not more useful than a good friend to talk to. (And some were not useful at all).

I do like the advice to get checked for STDs and seek advice from a lawyer.

I think it is great you are letting those whose WS was into prostitutes know they are not alone. I can't imagine how it might have been if I had any such resources back in the early '90s. But for me, I did what I needed to do, and I would most certainly make the same decision if I could do it all over again, and that is D him.

[This message edited by Bobbi_sue at 8:14 AM, July 24th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 5741 | Registered: Apr 2006
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 9:30 AM, July 24th (Wednesday)

Pain, I had no idea that such potential legal ramifications existed in some states. That is very good to know.

Bobbie Sue, I would have said the same thing about my SAWH when I JFO, and probably would have still said it if I had left and D him right away and not gone to IC. Like I said, so many of the WS into this are the very best at blameshifting and gaslighting to the point you would never suspect it without it being explained to you by a qualified professional. Not saying that is your case, but I am willing to say they are more likely a higher percentage of people in that case than yours and everyone owes it to themselves to find out which case applies to them. And IME, in going to support groups IRL, I can always pick out the ones that are in therapy and which ones are not, and almost always the ones in (good, applicable) therapy are progressing much faster than the ones that aren't. Again, of course not 100% but everyone deserves to leave no stone unturned in exploring what is best for their healing.

Bobbie Sue brings up an excellent point, absolutely true that bad or ineffective IC is more damaging than no IC, so please be sure you have the right IC for you and not just whoever takes your insurance. In my case, the right IC, the right group therapy, and the right support groups (including SI) helped me heal light years ahead of what I would have been able to do on my own.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
UMBL
Member
Member # 39605
Default  Posted: 9:41 AM, July 24th (Wednesday)

Wonderful Post Hath!! So many of us are in this situation - Thank you for recognizing that need!


BW - UMBL "Unhappily Married But Looking". His most recent Yahoo chat group
WH - SA
Blended Family - 2nd Marriage
DDay #1 - Jan 2009
DDay #2 - June 2013

Posts: 58 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Alabama
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 10:00 AM, July 24th (Wednesday)

Don't doubt there should also be a section that addresses: I Can't Afford a L/IC! I suppose I didn't because it is not exclusive to those betrayed by this particular flavor of infidelity, LOL.

Here's the thing. You can't afford NOT to. It will be more expensive in the long run if you don't. And could take years off your life and destroy your health. Here are some ideas to defray the cost:

Many lawyers have free initial consultations. Even if you don't think you can afford them or don't think they are the lawyer for you, it is worth any free consult to find out what laws are applicable to your particular sitch ASAP. Case in point, Pain's 90 day countdown from DDay example.

In my area, there is a law firm that does not do free initial consults, but does a free seminar every month for women considering S/D/Post Nups. It is a win-win for them, they can answer the most basic FAQs to many people at once, and they often get people to sign up for their services afterward. And the potential clients get info like have a phone number and a PO Box your WS cannot access BEFORE consultation begins.

Also many law firms post a wealth of info on their websites about local s/d/post nup laws and procedures. It is important to use websites for lawyers in your specific area (county and state in the US) because laws vary so widely from area to area. Finding out all as much info before any consult will allow you to focus your time with the L on stuff you don't know or need more info on.

As for IC, I strongly suggest getting recommendations from those in local free support groups such as S-Anon, COSA, Celebrate Recovery, divorce support groups, etc because you will have someone to vouch for their effectiveness before you start. If not, CSAT certification (or working towards it) is also a good filter. IME most qualified ICs will probably not deal with the insurance and you will be responsible for getting reimbursed for any benefit that applies, and many insurers don't like to pay for doctors that won't play their paperwork game. You should be up front about your financial situation with the IC, and they may be able to give you other options, such as group therapy or a sliding scale discount.

Bear in mind even if you have to pay out of pocket, it may be cheaper than D. And if you have to pay out of pocket for IC and still pay for D, it is worth every penny to be in the best mental condition possible, because you have to not only keep your STBX in line, but your STBX's lawyer in line, and your own lawyer in line. It could literally save you hundreds if not thousands of dollars being in the best shape to be your own advocate.

In addition, intensives and workshops from local support groups or therapy places might be a good solution. The place that I see my IC, has a class every fall and spring that is comparable to paying a co-pay or cheaper than IC out of pocket per class for the total amount they charge. I have heard of weekend and short-term classes and workshops in other areas. You have to ask around in SI and your local support groups to find out about them.

[This message edited by hathnofury at 10:03 AM, July 24th (Wednesday)]


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
floatinginlimbo
New Member
Member # 39693
Default  Posted: 1:18 PM, July 24th (Wednesday)

hathnofury, thank you for this post. Wonderful advice, and very helpful indeed.

Posts: 1 | Registered: Jun 2013
sailorgirl
Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 10:40 PM, August 7th (Wednesday)

Bumping for newbies.


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
NotsosunnyG
New Member
Member # 40197
Default  Posted: 11:27 PM, August 7th (Wednesday)

Thank you. This post was extremely helpful for me. I just found out last Friday about the escorts and I'm so glad I was pointed to this site. So far it looks like the physical betrayal started in June of this year but I can only hope that is true. I'm wondering if some resources/books are better than others for this type of infidelity over others?

Posts: 10 | Registered: Aug 2013
sailorgirl
Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 9:30 PM, August 8th (Thursday)

Notsosunny,

I'm glad this post is helpful to you. I wish I had more advice and a book recommendation, but I don't know enough about infidelity involving escorts.

Still, my situation is unusual for SI in that WH was abused as a child and his affair came out of his vulnerability to emotional manipulation. It took me awhile, but I have found two couples on SI with very similar stories to mine and that has been so helpful.

Keep posting and keep your focus on your self and your child as much as possible.


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
Mauimom1
Member
Member # 35848
Default  Posted: 9:58 PM, August 8th (Thursday)

Thank you for this great post.

Do you have any advice when your're a year and a half out and in R? My fwh anonymous encounters were at Asian massage parlors and he told me it had been going on for the past five years. Does this mean that I can assume based on lying and half truths that the timeframe of sexual encounters could easily be double that? I guess I'll never know the truth.

We're still in MC, however the MC has never broached sexual addiction and says we're doing great. Most of the time I don't even think of it anymore. I almost can't believe it has really happened to me. I hope I'm not coping in an unhealthy way.


Posts: 82 | Registered: Jun 2012
ccw82
Member
Member # 40133
Default  Posted: 10:19 PM, August 8th (Thursday)

NotsosunnyG,

I turned to a couple of books by Patrick Carnes, PhD. It sounds like your husband may be a sex and love addict, which has roots in child abuse. Reading Dr. Carnes' book, "Out of The Shadows" will help you understand that aspect of him (although it still doesn't make the pain any less for you, at least not initially).

I am still reeling in my own pain and despair with my SAWH. While I am sorry we all have come together under such negative circumstances, I am glad to have a network of people to turn to in my time of need. You guys are truly MY therapy!!!


Me: 31
WH (1DumbHusband): 35
Married 5 years, together 7 years.
D-Day: June 17th, 2013
TTs that came out as late as January 2014

"One is not tempted by that he does not want."


Posts: 136 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Dallas, TX
outtanowhere
Member
Member # 39001
Default  Posted: 10:27 PM, August 8th (Thursday)

Just wanted to add another book resource for all of us here. "Don't Call It Love" by Dr. Patrick Carnes. Extremely informative and an easy read.


BS - 57
SAWH - 60 multiple encounters with prostitutes and other sex workers
Married 37 years
Dday - 2/19/13 - found the emails
He promised me Heaven then put me thru hell

Posts: 724 | Registered: Apr 2013
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 11:21 PM, August 8th (Thursday)

When I read what pain pain go away wrote about having only 90 days from D day to file for D, or lose the chance to file on grounds of adultry, I realized that I had read that before..The question that comes to my mind is this...Getting proof as to whether one is still inside or is already on the outside of the 90 day count down from D day seems like something that would incredibly hard to do? A case of WS's word against BS's word unless the couple's family and community were in on their problems and could be witnesses in the D process,KWIM?

[This message edited by doggiediva at 11:29 PM, August 8th (Thursday)]


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1179 | Registered: Nov 2011
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 11:43 PM, August 8th (Thursday)

(I'm glad this thread was bumped.....I missed it's debut)

You as the BS need at the very least a trauma specialist and/or an infidelity specialist for IC, and honestly at least an evaluation by someone certified or at least educated in sex addiction would be best. MC is not really advisable at this point.

I am going to second this point.
WS's that are engaged in these types of behaviors are usually very adept at making *you* look like the crazy one and IMO it is crucial to find a person that is *on* to these types of 'games.' A therapist that advises partners of SA's is very helpful even if the WS isn't an SA because s/he will be very well-versed in cutting through the bullshit and the deceptive, sneaky behavior and is very useful in helping to 'shore you up' when it comes to setting boundaries for yourself.

Also, Hath. Something that has been 'picking' at me for a while now....there is a very common saying here on SI that I don't believe applies to BS's that find themselves in this type of situation.
"You are 50% responsible for the problems in the M, and 0% responsible for the A."
In the prostitute/anonymous encounter scenario, I don't believe the 50% responsibility thing is applicable.....and I KNOW that it doesn't apply to my situation. Oftentimes the people that are engaged in these types of behaviors have a very skewed perception of reality and the 'tapes' playing inside their heads are not even allowing the *real* BS to be heard or seen, so any marriage *issue* that the WS has with the BS may be a 'manufactured perception' that doesn't have ANY basis in reality....and there is not a darn thing that the BS could have done or can do to combat that.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8001 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 1:54 PM, August 9th (Friday)

Mauimom, in your particular case, if you are still feeling doubts, I would pursue getting your WS evaluated by a CSAT just for peace of mind. And if possible, a evaluation for you as well. And you could always explore a poly for your peace of mind too.

The thing is, just because somebody has had anonymous encounters or used prostitutes does not in and of itself make them a sex addict. However, the effect on the BS is the same as far as trauma goes, so it is to the BS's benefit to go to IC to address the severe trauma (in addition to the medical and legal steps), and also explore the possibility that the WS is a sex addict. As posted before, they are very good at hiding what they are and appearing to just have a few indiscretions when the reality is much worse. It is worth it to have the peace of mind to determine the truth and be able to make informed decisions about your future.

As for those more than a year out...it does get better but very slowly. There are lots of helpful books on the first page of the Spouses of Sex Addicts thread in I Can Relate.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
sparklezombie
Member
Member # 40095
Default  Posted: 7:57 PM, August 9th (Friday)

Thanks for posting. This has been very helpful. My wh has been involved in anon encounters for years ad I'm just coming out of the fog


BS: Me
WH: Husband
One daughter - 22 months
Married 11.5 years
2.5 false R's.
Status: Divorcing.
You can't pick up a turd by the clean end. Time to flush the toilet.

Posts: 250 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Somewhere on the Eastern Seaboard
Gemini71
Member
Member # 40115
Default  Posted: 10:40 PM, August 9th (Friday)

I completely agree with gonnabe2016 that the 50% of the state of the marriage doesn't really apply. Maybe it applies in a different way, because with a Sexual Addict, the state of the marriage is irrelevant to their need to cheat. You can take 50% of the credit for a perfect relationship, and they will still feel the need for additional ego reinforcement. And honestly, most WS who are into the Prostitutes and/or Anonymous Encounters are Sexual Addicts.


Edited to correct stupid typos.

Two steps forward and one step backwards, is still progress.


Posts: 1747 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Illinois, USA
NotsosunnyG
New Member
Member # 40197
Default  Posted: 11:14 PM, August 9th (Friday)

Thankfully WH is very embarrassed and remorseful about the encounters so he is not putting any spin on how it might be my fault.

I don't think it would hurt to get him evaluated by a CSAT although I may try to get him to do an online questionnaire first that I have found on some of the SA recommended sites So he opens is mind a little to that possibilty. I wonder if it is possible to not to labelled as a SA in some cases? I am also almost positive there has been no childhood abuse although I suppose there is always a chance.


Posts: 10 | Registered: Aug 2013
MissD
Member
Member # 39377
Default  Posted: 11:22 PM, August 9th (Friday)

Thank you Hath, and fellow posters. This thread hit me hard and overwhelmed me a bit, but in a good way. I've scoured the web, libraries, bookstores, yet found nothing I could really relate too. This info is spot on, succinct, and very much appreciated.


Posts: 70 | Registered: May 2013
boontje
Member
Member # 33247
Default  Posted: 9:35 AM, August 11th (Sunday)

Thank you for this post. I don't venture often to the JFO forum because it can be so overwhelming, but for some reason this morning, I did. When I came to SI two years ago, I was desperate to find a post I could relate to. Discovering my H's infidelity was bad enough, but when I found out it involved prostitutes, well, it was almost too much to handle. I'm sure your thoughtful post will give support to someone just like I was not so long ago. It sucks that we have to be here, but it is good that we are.


Me: BS
Dday: June 2011
Working on R, one day at a time

The best way to find out if you can trust somebody is to trust them.Ē
― Ernest Hemingway



Posts: 934 | Registered: Aug 2011
mountainmomma
Member
Member # 34388
Default  Posted: 1:26 PM, August 11th (Sunday)

Hath
Thank you for this excellent piece for newbies and for taking the time to write it. It's spot on. I would just like to add for the newbies that whilst WS that get involved with prostitutes etc sometimes don't have emotional attachments, they may develop emotional attachments to one or more in particular, as my WS did. The wayward may claim not to have any attachments but beware for sometimes they do with their "favourites". (ones they see on a regular basis)My WS got engaged to a crack addict one and because of his "deep love" for her, he became far more dangerous and delusional whilst in his self created mess. I agree with all you say and just wanted to add this point as I feel it ties in with the extreme gaslighting that occurs with this variety of WS. Example would be WS says "she meant nothing to me she was a prostitute" only for the BS to find out later that the WS "felt love and companionship" with them/individuals.
Love and light to us all
MM
X


Me 37
WS 42 (Mitty)
4 kiddys 9,7,4 &20 mths no5 due August 14
seeing hookers, NSA sites, escorts, anyone willing from 07/08 (i didn't know)left to do full time with no restraints 2010 Returned home march 2011 in R DDay 2.4.2010 OW 30+ age 18-60

Posts: 180 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: U.K
homewrecked2011
Member
Member # 34678
Default  Posted: 10:33 AM, August 12th (Monday)

Sometimes after we find out about the initial affair, we find out about the others.. A year after DDAy I found out my WH had been all over Craigs List in their s&m chat rooms. UGH. New Dday.


me BS 52
him - 46
married 15 years DIVORCED 10 31 12
children - ds15 ds12
d-day 12-19-11
I gave a 24hour ultimatum then went to attorney next day
Divorce filed

Posts: 2111 | Registered: Jan 2012
Teardrop29
New Member
Member # 40297
Default  Posted: 7:20 AM, August 13th (Tuesday)

Thanks Hath for the info.

I feel so lost right now. I just signed up and quickly came across this info. I found out 3 months ago when my husband confessed. I was 9 months pregnant at the time with our 2nd baby.

I'm devastated. He's had encounters at the asian parlours as well which is a big contribution to my insecurity right now as I am asian myself. I am so lost and deeply wounded. :-(


BS: me (29)
WH: 37
Together 4 yrs, Married 3 years
2 children: DS 2yrs/ DD 3mos

Posts: 15 | Registered: Aug 2013
Mauimom1
Member
Member # 35848
Default  Posted: 4:24 PM, August 13th (Tuesday)

(((Teardrop 29)))))

I just sent you a PM.


Posts: 82 | Registered: Jun 2012
Missymomma
Member
Member # 36988
Default  Posted: 1:46 PM, August 17th (Saturday)

Bumping for new members.


DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

Posts: 1084 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Texas
Barni
New Member
Member # 40346
Default  Posted: 2:02 PM, August 17th (Saturday)

Thank you for this. Will be following the advice.


BW:32
WH:30
Together: 8 years
Married: 5 years
Children: Boy, 4 years
D Day: 8/12/13

Posts: 19 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Wa
SpaceJane
Member
Member # 40303
Default  Posted: 12:45 AM, August 18th (Sunday)

Thank you so much for this post. I have just confirmed last week that my husband has been visiting massage parlors for our entire 3 year marriage :( I am devastated to say the least and so confused. Divorce? Reconciliation? Is it even possible? What a horrible roller coaster this week has been... Not looking forward to my future right now :(


Me BS: 29
SAWH: 29
M: 3yrs ; T: 12yrs
DDay1: 8/11/13 confessed to tip of the iceberg.
DDay2: 8/26/13 Found secret email, 7 yrs of CL casual encounters, dating websites, massage parlors, etc.

Posts: 61 | Registered: Aug 2013
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 11:27 AM, August 19th (Monday)

SpaceJane, you don't need to decide ANYTHING about your M now. One of the best gifts I gave myself, that I learned here on SI, was that I was not going to make any decisions for a year about the fate of my M. I had much more pressing things on my plate. By allowing myself that, I was able to do the things I needed to do - STD testing, consulting the L, gathering the financial evidence, going into therapy, seeing how my WH reacted and his actions going forward, etc. And in my case, it also put the pressure off WH to protect himself legally for D, so I was able to gather the financials without struggle. THESE are the things you need to concern yourself with now, not what are you going to do about the M. You don't have all the info you need to make that decision now.

In addition, you are not in shape to make that decision now even if you did. If you were in the ICU, would you expect someone to make that call? Because you are in the equivalent of the ICU now. Give yourself time to heal.

The only reason you would *need* to file or otherwise make that call is if you were in danger or if was to your legal advantage. And your L should help you decide that.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
Missymomma
Member
Member # 36988
Default  Posted: 7:58 AM, August 30th (Friday)

Bumping again, for new members.


DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

Posts: 1084 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Texas
jzkc1502
Member
Member # 40496
Default  Posted: 8:19 AM, August 30th (Friday)

Thank you for bumping.

Dealing with this has been the hardest thing I've ever done, and after 3 yrs of thinking I can move on, I'm thinking now that I can't. I don't want to be with someone that did this to me, or that in the back of my mind I'm thinking "what if he's at it again?" But now thats making me feel as if I'm the bad guy now. I just have no idea what to do.


Me: BS 29
Him: WH 29
Together: 9 years, married 3
DDay: August 2010
OW: Escorts/Craigslist (escorts and strip club on our honeymoon!)
Status: Divorcing. All papers filed, waiting on date.

Posts: 139 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: NJ
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 2:22 PM, August 30th (Friday)

jzkc1502, what you are feeling is totally normal. Even if your WS dropped everything declared total remorse and met every single boundary and requirement you laid out (which we all know pretty much never happens, LOL). I think it is way harder in that respect when you are several years out. You see things more clearly then. You wince at how you *thought* they were "doing everything right" when now you know they weren't, or you weren't demanding what was really everything of them at the time.

If it helps at all, I totally identify with everything you've said and in theory I have done "everything right" for my healing as suggested by SI, by my and his IC, by the psych experts of this area, etc. for more than two years. I think it is part of that magic 3-5 years to recover from infidelity they all talk about, and honestly it may be longer for us with the wack-ados that have this flavor of it. I think having these feelings is just another step in the process of healing.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 5:43 PM, September 6th (Friday)

Bumping for DCP...


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
Jesss
Member
Member # 40333
Default  Posted: 7:53 PM, September 6th (Friday)

Wow, such a helpful thread for me to read, thanks.


BS: 31, WS: 35
4 kids between 2 and 7yrs old
DDAY 1: July 2013
DDAY 2: Sept 2013
DDAY 3: Oct 2013
DDAY 4: Feb 2014

Posts: 103 | Registered: Aug 2013
StrongAlone
Member
Member # 39564
Default  Posted: 9:07 AM, September 7th (Saturday)

I can relate to all of this because my husband turned out to be a lying SA. I mean it really takes someone special to use the ipad they were given as a gift by all your family members for cancer treatments and use it to solicit sex! Oh and then say that he didn't feel badly about using it in that way.

Is this the right place to wonder if labeling this behavior an 'addiction' just confuses the issue at hand? I know it did for me anyways...it made me feel like I 'should' stay because now he's told me its an addiction for him and I felt like, shouldn't a wife support her husband through an addiction??

If we were to post our stories anywhere else on these forums, without the SA label, everyone would be saying, wake the hell up and leave!! My husband has shown me who he is, over and over again. This time around is no different.


Me (BS) 40 Him (WH, SA, covert NPD) 41
Married 8 years, 2 young kids
DD1-Right after engagement 2004
DD2-Email from OW 2008
DD3-2012-Him diagnosed with cancer, I thought we grew closer, he kept cheating.
Divorcing.

Posts: 98 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Canada
Sparkle0504
Member
Member # 40379
Default  Posted: 9:57 AM, September 8th (Sunday)

Thank you for taking the time to write this advice, it hits the nail on the head in so many ways.

I'm taking note!

As someone else mentioned on here, I'm taking my time over decisions and action, mainly because I need to be in the best shape I can be to deal with this as BEST I can.

I agree with the post above - there is a feeling that if the WS has an addiction, then it surely is the wifely thing to support the WS through it. However, if the WS will not acknowledge the problem and therefore create a situation where they can be supported (and not strangled)...that's when the real decisions have to be made.


Me 44 (BS)
Him 52 (SAWH)
DDay (too many to mention), but 1st 06/2011
Children - two, mine from my previous marriage
Final straw 6/6/14

The truth hurts, but nowhere near as much as the lies


Posts: 195 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: England
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, September 8th (Sunday)

Is this the right place to wonder if labeling this behavior an 'addiction' just confuses the issue at hand? I know it did for me anyways...it made me feel like I 'should' stay because now he's told me its an addiction for him and I felt like, shouldn't a wife support her husband through an addiction??

If we were to post our stories anywhere else on these forums, without the SA label, everyone would be saying, wake the hell up and leave!! My husband has shown me who he is, over and over again. This time around is no different.

I *personally* don't believe you have to stay married to ANY sort of addict or mentally ill person if they refuse to admit they have a problem AND refuse treatment. I also don't believe you have to stay married to anyone who has committed adultery in any form. So for me, anyone that says you have to stay married to a sex addict is using an invalid argument. There were vows and promises made, and all three of these scenarios break them and voids the contract in my book.

Having said that, I am obviously still married to my SAWH. I believe strongly in the sickness and health vow, but I also think it does not include when someone purposefully makes themselves ill or refuses to get healthy again. I am sticking through as long as there appears to be forward progress on that front and I am not being put at risk or being taken advantage of. And regardless of whether I am married to him or not, I will always support any efforts he takes to getting well because he is the father of my children, and they deserve a healthy dad.

The main thing is to do everything YOU need to get healed, so YOU can make the best decisions for YOU. And when the WS is into anonymous encounters and prostitutes, that isn't always easy to determine.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 2:20 PM, September 9th (Monday)

Bumping for movingbackward and others...


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
forgivingnow
Member
Member # 33549
Default  Posted: 2:40 PM, September 9th (Monday)

Thank you Hath for posting this. I found out in July the truth...my husbands cheating was so many more years and with so many more women than he had admitted to. He is now going to IC and owning this and not blaming our marriage.

To the new people, you can reconcile and you will be ok. I can't talk about this to anyone IRL, who would understand & support you? Thank goodness for SI.


Me-BS 51
FWH-51
M 31 yrs.
Dday 3-19-11, TT 10/2011, Full truth July 2013
Strength comes from within. You can't get it from someone or go somewhere to get it. It is already here, waiting to be used when you need it most. Believe in yourself.
R

Posts: 609 | Registered: Oct 2011
16forever
Member
Member # 37255
Default  Posted: 12:56 AM, September 10th (Tuesday)

I also found out about my H 's hookers during a ea that turned into a pa her then later left me for her but returned 2 mos later he said it was 10 hookers in the first 10 yrs of our m I am struggling to get past those and the A he had last yr ,do they eventually go back to hookers this scares me to desth


Me:BS
Him:WS
3 awesome kids

Posts: 179 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: My own nightmare
Bobbi_sue
Member
Member # 10347
Default  Posted: 2:19 AM, September 10th (Tuesday)

it made me feel like I 'should' stay because now he's told me its an addiction for him and I felt like, shouldn't a wife support her husband through an addiction??

Interesting. I think a lot of people seem to think they are supposed to stay and feel sorry for, and support people with addictions. I have never had that mindset.

I really am not one to bring myself down with an "addicted" person if the addiction involves subtance abuse or sex. I have said many times on this forum, that I would divorce just as quickly if my H was an alcoholic or drug abuser, as I would for one who was a cheater.

If we were to post our stories anywhere else on these forums, without the SA label, everyone would be saying, wake the hell up and leave!!

I filed for a D from my XH two days after the final D-day and never looked back.


Posts: 5741 | Registered: Apr 2006
Missymomma
Member
Member # 36988
Default  Posted: 8:44 AM, September 10th (Tuesday)

Some spouses feel like they have to stay if an addict is in recovery, there are many that don't. Even though my SAWH has been sober for 2 years, only recently have I decided I wanted to stay married. I didn't used to think I would ever stay with someone that cheated on me, so saying that you wouldn't stay with an addict in recovery doesn't mean that if it came down to it and the circumstances were right, that you wouldn't. I totally support those that leave and those that stay. Either choice has downfalls and everyone has the right to make that decision for themselves.


DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

Posts: 1084 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Texas
dameia
Member
Member # 36072
Default  Posted: 8:51 AM, September 10th (Tuesday)

Thank you for posting this Hath. Somehow I missed it the first time around.

I remember when I first joined SI there seemed to be so few people who could relate. I only remember two specific members (hath was one) who could even somewhat relate to my story.

My WH is not a SA. Just a stupid, selfish-ass. What really makes me sad is that I know I will never feel completely safe with him again. I'm always waiting for the other shoe to drop. If he was able to hide it for so many years, well, now I am constantly questioning, constantly wondering. It sucks.


Me: BS
D-Day: 7/7/12

One should rather die than be betrayed. There is no deceit in death. It delivers precisely what it has promised. Betrayal, though ... betrayal is the willful slaughter of hope. ~Steven Deitz


Posts: 1135 | Registered: Jul 2012
Mel36
New Member
Member # 40615
Default  Posted: 5:47 PM, September 10th (Tuesday)

I am so happy right now that I am crying buckets of tears. This post from hathnofury may very well have stopped my plans for suicide.? I have not felt happy in almost a year. D day was dec 13 2012. My WS was with 36 prostitutes and gave me two stds that I will have for life. Since discovering what he was doing ..... I wander aimlessly through each day just feeling less and less interested in life.......wishing I was dead. Thanks for helping me see I am not alone in this hell.

Posts: 7 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Canada
movingbackwards
Member
Member # 40612
Default  Posted: 5:52 PM, September 10th (Tuesday)

Mel36 PLEASE get help if you are having any kind of suicidal thoughts. I say this as someone who has walked that slippery slope before... Get help now, don't wait til it gets worse. . I am so very sorry for your pain. You are not alone and I'm glad you've seen that! Hugs!


You can crawl back home, say you were wrong
Stand out in the yard and cry all night long
Go ahead and water the lawn
My give a damn's busted!

Posts: 85 | Registered: Sep 2013
forgivingnow
Member
Member # 33549
Default  Posted: 8:03 PM, September 10th (Tuesday)

(((Mel36)))
I felt suicidal when I first found out. When I found out the full truth mid July of this year I felt those feelings again. What you want to escape or get rid of is the intense pain. You will be ok. Many of us are walking ahead of you & you will be ok. Call someo e if you need to. I (we) know how hard this is. Keep talking here.


Me-BS 51
FWH-51
M 31 yrs.
Dday 3-19-11, TT 10/2011, Full truth July 2013
Strength comes from within. You can't get it from someone or go somewhere to get it. It is already here, waiting to be used when you need it most. Believe in yourself.
R

Posts: 609 | Registered: Oct 2011
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 8:18 PM, September 10th (Tuesday)

do they eventually go back to hookers this scares me to desth

16forever, that is always a risk. If he is not in IC to address why he is so broken that it led to this, he likely will.

I can tell you this. After two years of fairly intense therapy, I feel like I can trust my gut again. I know when something is off, even slightly. So I don't worry about this as much, because I don't need to. I trust myself to take care of me.

And it wouldn't matter if I was with my WH or not - I needed to trust my gut again about everything with anybody. Once you have been married to someone who could do this to you, the chances are very high you will get involved with someone else that could do this later on if you don't get yourself the help YOU need. IC, support groups, reading books, hanging out on SI, whatever it takes.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 8:24 PM, September 10th (Tuesday)

(((Mel36)))

I know you are hurting, and I do hope you find help if you still have thoughts of suicide. Your WS is not worthy of your death, and the world needs more people like you.

I felt intense pain, suffering, and despair when I found out. I didn't know anyone in real life who would have such an issue. I knew if I told my family, they'd tell anyone and everyone who would listen with the best intentions of helping me, but it would all backfire and make things so much worse. I wasn't sure I could tell my closest friends without my family finding out. I felt totally alone. I now know there are thousands (maybe millions) of us, male and female, of every age and walk of life all over the globe.

Finding SI was a lifesaver for me as well. Even though there are web sites and bulletin boards devoted to this topic alone, THIS site is by far the best I have ever seen regarding infidelity, and especially for the more complicated versions of infidelity. I'm very glad this thread spoke to you and could help. And I'm especially glad that it helped you stick around to help others like us.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
StrongAlone
Member
Member # 39564
Default  Posted: 9:32 PM, September 11th (Wednesday)

I mostly read and don't post often but this touches close to home.

I don't judge anyone for staying or leaving, it's a very personal choice based on numerous things. Years of being married and how many D-Days seem to be factors that sway people one way or the other. But then again, as I'm writing this I'm realising that for some people, once would be enough to say goodbye!

SA is gut wrenching to go through. I say 'go through' but I'm not out the other side yet and wonder if I ever will be. Whatever way this lands for all of us that find ourselves here, I have the deepest of compassion. This ride will take you up and down into places you thought you'd never go, much less come back from to tell the tale.

I chose to look at it with humour when I can. My way of coping I guess. It is all so ridiculous. Cancer and then sex addiction, like really? I couldn't make this up if I tried...all I know for sure is that I am a better human being now. Regardless of what he is up to. And guess what? I just don't really care what he's up to anymore! Damn, that part feels good...


Me (BS) 40 Him (WH, SA, covert NPD) 41
Married 8 years, 2 young kids
DD1-Right after engagement 2004
DD2-Email from OW 2008
DD3-2012-Him diagnosed with cancer, I thought we grew closer, he kept cheating.
Divorcing.

Posts: 98 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Canada
Missymomma
Member
Member # 36988
Default  Posted: 11:01 AM, September 15th (Sunday)

Bumping for new members.


DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

Posts: 1084 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Texas
toomanytimes
New Member
Member # 40658
Default  Posted: 4:31 PM, September 15th (Sunday)

Thank you so much hathnofury for this topic, I needed to read this years ago. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate your sharing of your knowledge.

Please someone respond to me on this: My WS was on the internet seeking sex. He was advertising for relationships, dates, on swinger websites, any way to lead to sex. I found profiles he made on most all dating sites, Ashley Madison & E-Harmony. I found a craig's list listing where he was seeking a swinger partner. (I died on the inside) In some of the emails he said he was divorced, and that it was really neither party's fault, just didn't work out.

He was matter of fact when I asked him about his infidelity and other "life" and said that if there was a site like that, and it was free-he probably had a profile on it. He said it was for the adrenaline rush of the chase and the thrill. He said once they met and had sex, that was it. He said there was only 3 women he was ever with and that he was through with that life. (I now realize from hathnofury that I will never know the real number, and that it really doesn't matter. I have spent 5 lonely, horrid years trying to figure out just how many).

He has been the perfect person ( I think) since DD, and he no longer works away from home.

How do I know if he is a sex addict, and since we both agreed that MC probably wouldn't help what do I do?
We both want to reconcile but I can't seem to get over this. I have no trust whatsoever in him.


Posts: 12 | Registered: Sep 2013
Jesss
Member
Member # 40333
Default  Posted: 10:25 PM, September 15th (Sunday)

Toomanytimes, Im in the exact dame position as you, except my WS won't even admit to ever physically being with anyone (just to cyber sex and exchanging naked photos).
How long has it been since Dday for you? I'm afraid I'll never trust him either, no matter what he does now.


BS: 31, WS: 35
4 kids between 2 and 7yrs old
DDAY 1: July 2013
DDAY 2: Sept 2013
DDAY 3: Oct 2013
DDAY 4: Feb 2014

Posts: 103 | Registered: Aug 2013
toomanytimes
New Member
Member # 40658
Default  Posted: 12:45 AM, September 16th (Monday)

Hi Jesss. It's been 5 years. And yes, my WS got others to send naked pics to him also. Everyone on here has been correct saying time helps to ease the shock & pain some, and that the WS never tells the whole truth.

I still really HATE him at times when I think about the deceit and absolute loss of trust, and the absolute lack of concern for my life. He could've given me any STD out there. But, I'm not thinking about it every second like I used to. But my resentment is getting worse as time goes by. I don't feel like I have had any closure to this death. I really feel like someone died, and I guess our trust really did. And the crazy part is, this is not the first infidelity issue. That happened after 4 yrs of marriage. That was an A with Ow at his work. He lied looking me straight in the eyes promising nothing was going on between them. That took 10 yrs to get over and deal with. I felt like if he were able to lie to me like that, he was not the person I thought he was at all. I didn't think I could ever trust him again, but it was slowly coming back around. Now this?

I have not told him I love him since DD in 2008. I do not think he is deserving of it. I feel like I gave him his 2nd chance and he threw it away. If it weren't for my 2 kiddos I can promise you I would have really contemplated a separation by now. Maybe if only to see if I really could live and survive without him. There is a part of me that wants to believe he really has changed and that the person he has shown me since this last DD is real, but I'm just too gun shy and don't want to be hurt and feel the shame of being duped again. Logic tells me if he were capable of doing this to me - cause me that much pain again - then he won't change. That he is a probable narcissist that doesn't have a conscious. He had to think his other "lifestyle" was worth losing me if he got caught. I think that is why my resentment is getting worse; I'm not certain that he had real, true remorse for the pain that his deceit caused me. I think he is sorry he got caught. I resent him, which means I have not forgiven him and I guess that's why I can't get over this.

I must start thinking about me, like all of the people on here state. I have spent the last 5 years of my life thinking about him. "How many people was he really with? How can I find out for certain how many it was? Is he on the computer on websites again?" I have exhausted myself for nothing. I know now I cannot control him or what he does; and, I have to try and get some sort of life back.


Posts: 12 | Registered: Sep 2013
StrongAlone
Member
Member # 39564
Default  Posted: 10:18 PM, September 16th (Monday)

toomanytimes, I can relate. I gave my husband two full chances to change, the second after getting an email from the other woman and him, no reaction whatsoever, denying everything. After that I decided that the problem must be with me and that I'd give him my full trust, no more snooping, suspecting. Push down all my instincts basically. Well it took another 3 years till he got caught again and only because my gut was screaming at me one morning to check his ipad.

Only you can decide if you can live with this addiction long term. I think for myself anyways, the difficult part is that with this addiction, I can't tell if he's been 'acting out'. It's not like drugs or alcohol where you might be able to tell by their behavior that something is wrong, many of these men are master liars. I can't have a marriage without honesty. For me it just doesn't work. My husband and I are separated, I have young kids too, I haven't fully committed to divorce yet as I think it's very serious and want to see if he can change things around. So far, not so good.


Me (BS) 40 Him (WH, SA, covert NPD) 41
Married 8 years, 2 young kids
DD1-Right after engagement 2004
DD2-Email from OW 2008
DD3-2012-Him diagnosed with cancer, I thought we grew closer, he kept cheating.
Divorcing.

Posts: 98 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Canada
Hope2B
Member
Member # 40474
Default  Posted: 2:21 AM, September 17th (Tuesday)

Thank you so much, Hath, for this thread!

TRICKLE TRUTH: I am going to say I have NEVER EVER heard of anyone busted with a history of prostitutes or anonymous encounters has EVER come 100% clean upon initial confrontation. The TT with this variety of WS is always present and usually pretty bad. Until you can confirm with a polygraph, always assume there is more you donít know.

Oh goodness! You are so right about this! He convinced me, back in Feb, that the A was only 8 months long, and he only had a hand job and blow job in her car. She always seemed to need money, was short of cash, and so he paid for sex--helping out the Damsel in Distress and getting sex too.

Wow, what could be better, and the wife (me) never knew!? He thought he had it all. I guess he woke up stupid at age 58 with 29 years of marriage, huh?

Then I find out more details by accident last Tues/Wed, and I start digging, and sure enough, my new reality is that this has been going on for SEVEN YEARS, and it includes penetrative genital sex, positions that he suggested to me for us to do during our brief period of sexual reconnect (this was after he was caught and after they had NC which itself was a lie), and he also suggested I shave my genital area (just like the hooker!). He did cunnilingus and digital penetration to her, too. Wow, so respectful to me!

The icing on this cake is that sometimes he didn't use a condom. Did he not figure how many other men had been in the same place where he stuck his penis? Guess not.

Yes, we have STD etc testing on order, and thank you for that list too BTW.

He had his first IC appt today. Our couples counseling is this Thursday. My own IC appointment is in late October--that was the earliest I could get one unless I wanted to tell them I was going to hurt myself or others.

Now he blames me for digging more and finding out more stuff, forcing him to come clean (if that's indeed true) before we met with our pastor today. Sorry, I don't play that "it's my fault for digging" game. HE is the one who did the deeds over and over again for years. He thought he could get away scott-free if only I hadn't dug for more info.

It makes me sick. I am so grateful for this site and so sad that there is such a need for it.


Me: early 60s
Him: 65 yrs old, LTA w/a pro$titute
Married since 1980, no children
DDay: Feb. 25, 2013
Trickle Truth Days: Sept 10, 11, 13, 15 (2013)
His affair--says it was only 8 times 1x/mo, then found out it was 7 YEARS 2-3x/mo

Posts: 356 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: out west/west coast U.S.A.
toomanytimes
New Member
Member # 40658
Default  Posted: 9:34 AM, September 17th (Tuesday)

Strongalone, yes, I now really trust my intuition, and trust no one. When I think something is not right, it isn't.

Since I am, in all honesty, willing to reconcile since he apparently finally believes that I've had enough this go round, and give this M one last chance, I am in the process of coming up with my list of deal breakers and it is hard to do. I will not tolerate it anymore-I have finally made it to my limit. The deal breakers that I come up with must be clear and concise for both of us. He will have to abide by these, but I have to follow the rules also. Which means if he has not made the changes that he appears to have made, and he crosses the line and breaks a deal, then I have to end our relationship. I cannot imagine myself being that strong and doing it-but I would have to.

I am through with this life of hell. I know life is short and I want to enjoy what is left of it. I've wasted a lot of years worried and wondering.


Posts: 12 | Registered: Sep 2013
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 1:54 PM, September 26th (Thursday)

Bumping for new members.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
hard_yards
Member
Member # 23549
Default  Posted: 10:16 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday)

bump



I feel like I'm in a parallel universe... everything looks the same... but something's just not right...

Posts: 1238 | Registered: Apr 2009
DrivingPast
Member
Member # 32984
Default  Posted: 11:23 PM, October 21st (Monday)

Great post hath!

Im curious though, what did you mean by saying they always blame the bs even when they seem like they didn't. Can you give me any examples of that? You can pm me if you prefer.

I dont feel that he ever blamed me. He specifically said that nothing I did could have caused it. But maybe I missed something. Im always open to that possibility!


BW
married more than 10 yrs to a possible SA
D-Day May 5 2011
"Because one knows people best through their fears - the ones they overcome and the ones they are overcome by."

Posts: 1304 | Registered: Aug 2011
diffeentguy
New Member
Member # 41078
Default  Posted: 11:59 AM, October 22nd (Tuesday)

Thank you for this topic. I have felt lost. I have posted to talkaboutmarriage, but my story doesn't seem to fit in anywhere. Short version. Married 11 years. 2 kids. Over the last 6 weeks, through the worst TT imaginable, she has admitted to sex with a coworker 1.5 years in to marriage, that turned into sex for pills 4 times. Sex with 2 women, sex with a coworker 1.5 years ago, and 3 years ago, prostituting herself for about 10 months for methadone and eventually crack. Anyone else heard of this nightmare?

Edit-jusr realized I misspelled my stupid username. :(

[This message edited by diffeentguy at 12:01 PM, October 22nd (Tuesday)]


Posts: 18 | Registered: Oct 2013
Compartmented
Member
Member # 29410
Default  Posted: 8:40 AM, October 31st (Thursday)

*bump*

Posts: 1257 | Registered: Aug 2010
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 5:45 PM, November 4th (Monday)

Bumping or a new member in need....


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 8:59 PM, November 5th (Tuesday)

Bumping again for a member in need...


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
steadfast1973
Member
Member # 24719
Default  Posted: 11:51 AM, November 6th (Wednesday)

Holy cow. Been a while. WS is W again. This time a ONS with a prostitute. Seriously not looking forward to this roller coaster ride, again.


Me- 40- BS Him- 36- WH D-day#1 5/25/09 3 mo. EA d-day#2 11/06/13 Prostitute 11/5/13 in R
"I've seen your flag on the marble arch, our love is not a victory march, it's a cold and broken hallelujah."- Leonard Cohen

Posts: 2256 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: Midwest
LonelySilhouette
Member
Member # 39502
Default  Posted: 12:00 PM, November 6th (Wednesday)

I'm so sorry, Steadfast. He just did this yesterday and you know today?


Me - 49 (BS)
Him - 51 (WH with "8 or 9" prostitutes)
Married 30 years, give or take a few weeks here and there
D-Day - May 4, 2013
Discovered an EA going on since 2010 around that time, too. NC in place now.


Posts: 88 | Registered: Jun 2013
steadfast1973
Member
Member # 24719
Default  Posted: 12:41 PM, November 6th (Wednesday)

Yes. Oh, he's got remorse coming out of his ears. Thing is... I don't care. I don't know if it's shock (last time was trickle truth, this time a big huge truth fest and apologies...) or if I am just done.


Me- 40- BS Him- 36- WH D-day#1 5/25/09 3 mo. EA d-day#2 11/06/13 Prostitute 11/5/13 in R
"I've seen your flag on the marble arch, our love is not a victory march, it's a cold and broken hallelujah."- Leonard Cohen

Posts: 2256 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: Midwest
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 1:38 PM, November 8th (Friday)

Bumping for new members in need...weekends can be slow on SI so old timers may take a while to respond. But what never slows down is the number of newbies that come here every day that need to read this thread. :(


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
jzkc1502
Member
Member # 40496
What?  Posted: 1:52 PM, November 8th (Friday)

Posted on this thread before as my WH was calling/texting escorts for a perioud of about 6-8 months in 2010.

What do you think the likelihood is that is was JUST that, no PA? I want to believe it was just that, but the sheer volume of calls/texts just seems ad that would have never culminated into at least ONE visit. Plus, strings of texts that were sometimes 20 long, sext? Would an escort do that for free?

What pisses me off more in MC he goes "ya know, they are sales people." Makes me feel like he is minimizing what he did, or really doesn't get it.


Me: BS 29
Him: WH 29
Together: 9 years, married 3
DDay: August 2010
OW: Escorts/Craigslist (escorts and strip club on our honeymoon!)
Status: Divorcing. All papers filed, waiting on date.

Posts: 139 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: NJ
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 2:12 PM, November 8th (Friday)

IMHO, jzkc1502? With that kind of volume? Little to none. And no in general Pros do not give away much for free. They don't have time, they are too busy with their paying customers.

My two cents? I hope your MC is well-versed in cheaters of this variety. They are as I said very accomplished liars. MC is usually about mediation of two hurting spouses, not investigating severe deception and abuse on one side. One of the things I was most grateful for in my first MC experience was that the MC understood this early on and referred us to the specialized help we needed. I am so glad this happened, because I have read so many horror stories about how well-meaning MCs swallowed the lies of the WS and led the BS to believe they were to blame for their WS to look for pros and anon encounters. This is why I still stand by my this resource thread to pursue IC first before attempting MC. The WS needs to fix the broken, and the spouse needs to address the trauma inflicted on them before any effective MC can begin. The garden variety MC is not equipped to deal with this.

I wish I could tell you he's probably telling the truth. But I in good conscience can't. Please take care of yourself.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
jzkc1502
Member
Member # 40496
Default  Posted: 2:31 PM, November 8th (Friday)

Thanks Hath. Yea its just a hard thing to have to admit to oneself that there was most likely PA.
I have an IC appointment next week, who is also our MC...CSAT and sex therapist so he's had two MC with us and heard WH's story and answers so far.


Me: BS 29
Him: WH 29
Together: 9 years, married 3
DDay: August 2010
OW: Escorts/Craigslist (escorts and strip club on our honeymoon!)
Status: Divorcing. All papers filed, waiting on date.

Posts: 139 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: NJ
ShatteredLove00
New Member
Member # 40830
Default  Posted: 2:39 PM, November 8th (Friday)

Thank you so much for posting. This will be helpful for women going through the same horrible shock and pain that comes from this kind of discovery. It really is the worst thing that's ever happened to me, and I have a pretty sad history of abuse and struggle.


Me: BS (29) Him: SAWH (30)
HS Sweethearts, WAS each other's 1st/onlys. 1 child & 8 months pregnant when he hired prostitute/confessed.
D-Day: September 1, 2013
Shocked, disgusted, and struggling.

Posts: 34 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: United States
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 2:02 PM, November 14th (Thursday)

I wish there was not a need for this thread to be bumped as often as it does...hugs to you all.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
Shook
New Member
Member # 41312
Default  Posted: 3:18 PM, November 14th (Thursday)

Thanks for bumping this up. I really needed to read it today.


Me: BS-30
Him: WH-36
D-Day 11/9/13
Together 10 years, married 5
Status: I have no idea.

Posts: 3 | Registered: Nov 2013
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 2:44 PM, December 3rd (Tuesday)

Bumping for new members. I wish I didn't need to.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 8:40 PM, December 13th (Friday)

Bumping for new members in need...


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
outtanowhere
Member
Member # 39001
Default  Posted: 9:44 AM, December 16th (Monday)

Bump


BS - 57
SAWH - 60 multiple encounters with prostitutes and other sex workers
Married 37 years
Dday - 2/19/13 - found the emails
He promised me Heaven then put me thru hell

Posts: 724 | Registered: Apr 2013
Anyone13
New Member
Member # 41635
Default  Posted: 6:14 PM, December 16th (Monday)

Thank you for bumping. This information is especially helpful, especially about a week in as I'm coming out of my own fog and really starting to process what's really happened. And exactly what it means to consider that my WS is so broken to be able to engage in this type of affair. I knew he had issues, but never understood the
depths and how disturbed he is. I feel like the polygraph portion and then the acceptance of knowing I need to accept that I will never know the full details are contradictory. If I need to accept that, what's the point in doing a polygraph?

Posts: 24 | Registered: Dec 2013
lhhell
Member
Member # 40332
Default  Posted: 6:42 PM, December 16th (Monday)

Thanks for bumping Hath

I read this thread when you initially posted it. I'm not super active on SI but I can honestly say it's helped me through some of my roughest spots.

I'm worried about the TT. My WH came clean (I hope) fairly quickly. I would be devasted if I found out that there was more than I already know about. But I like your advice that (paraphrasing here) I may need to get comfortable that I may never know the whole truth.

1 year anniversary of Dday coming up. I'm a bit of a mess but this post really helped.


Me: BS
Him: WH
Dday: Jan 4, 2013

Posts: 52 | Registered: Aug 2013
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, December 17th (Tuesday)

I feel like the polygraph portion and then the acceptance of knowing I need to accept that I will never know the full details are contradictory. If I need to accept that, what's the point in doing a polygraph?

Mmm...yes, I suppose it does appear that way. It's another one of those things that make more sense with time and healing under your belt. Let me try to explain.

You very aptly summarized this:

And exactly what it means to consider that my WS is so broken to be able to engage in this type of affair. I knew he had issues, but never understood the depths and how disturbed he is.

So you've got a REALLY disturbed person on your hands. Even if s/he is totally willing do whatever it takes...they not be ABLE to disclose everything to you even if they wanted to. It could be because of great shame they can't face what they have done, it could be because they have become such masters of denial and compartmentalization they couldn't call it all up if they wanted, it could be because they have been doing it for so long that the volume of offenses goes back years/decades and it isn't possible to remember it all. Then there are offenses they don't consider relevant that YOU do, etc. There are a great many number of reasons why a "willing" WS that was into prostitutes/anonymous encounters wouldn't be able to come entirely clean, at least right away.

And then if you don't have a WS willing to do whatever it takes, you won't get the whole story either. They might TT, outright lie, omit offenses they don't consider relevant, etc even when confronted with irrefutable proof. You might go through a long period of false R before you'd ever know. Or they might prefer to just cut and run than have to face or admit what they did.

As newly JFO, you can't see all of this yet (and this goes for all BS, not just us with the "special" ones). It's not likely at all you have all the pieces of the puzzle, so you don't even know what scenario you are in even if you knew what they all were. It takes time, perspective, see consistent change in actions, and a whole lotta therapy to see where YOU are in this mess, let alone where WS is.

Then there are the limitations of the polygraph. You can't ask a blanket question of did you tell me everything and get good results. It is a tool that used by the right kind of expert, who asks the right kind of questions, can point out the problem areas. I don't recommend you do a poly on your own in this particular case, unless you are just using it as a means to get a parking lot confession or see if s/he just refuses on principle. I would only use it with a therapy program that specializes in using a polygraph as part of the infidelity healing process. In that arena, polygraphs are used to verify aspects of disclosure, if the WS is being truthful in therapy (because a lot of them continue to lie in therapy), and also to verify the WS's faithfulness post-DD. The last one meaning, say every six months or a year, the primary question on the polygraph is have you been faithful since the last polygraph? And if you are thinking why would I stay if I have to get regular polygraphs, think of it as like a drug test for those married to a drug addict. You use them as long as you need to, or only when you need to.

So anyway, the point is you aren't going to get the whole truth right now no matter what your scenario is, and you probably don't know what your true scenario even is yet. But if you are persistent with your own healing, over time this will all make sense. If you both pursue independent therapy in some form, you may come to realize you don't need to know ALL the details. Or you may come to realize you need guidance and support in getting the details, because many of them are very traumatic for you.

Pretty much I am just saying, for your own best interest, assume there is more than you know, and prepare for that. Get your ducks in a row, put yourself in the best physical and mental condition to prepare for it, get yourself the support your need NOW before the proverbial shit hits the fan. Nothing is wasted by doing this, and everything to gain.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
Anyone13
New Member
Member # 41635
Default  Posted: 4:09 PM, December 18th (Wednesday)

Thank you hathnofury. That was extremely helpful for me. I think I've been expecting to start with a clean slate, not understanding why that might be difficult or even impossible for my WS at this point. Is it strange that I'm actually finding some peace in the "I don't have to know everything" part? It's enabling me to let go of wanting to continue to investigate and "get all of the facts." We had our second marriage counseling session last night, and I brought up in front of the counselor that I knew he still wasn't being honest and that basically if he's unable to be honest (for whatever the reason), then he needs to just say so. I told him I would rather you tell me that you can't tell me now, then to further lie to me. The next step is for him to begin IC with someone on his own, a referral from my counselor. And I just have to learn to be patient, because I'm the type that wants resolution RIGHT NOW. LOL. I have to accept that he has a long journey ahead of him of finding out and addressing his demons, and since he can't even explain or understand why he's done this, clearly he can't make any promises to me so I need to stop asking for them. The hardest part is going into this knowing there's no assurance of recovery, possibility of being in false recovery now and for the indefinite future and what sounds like the likelihood of continuous TT. Kind of overwhelming when you think about it all.

Posts: 24 | Registered: Dec 2013
Anyone13
New Member
Member # 41635
Default  Posted: 4:09 PM, December 18th (Wednesday)

Not sure why my last comment posted twice, so just editing to remove it so I don't look like an idiot.

[This message edited by Anyone13 at 5:13 PM, December 18th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 24 | Registered: Dec 2013
Anyone13
New Member
Member # 41635
Default  Posted: 4:18 PM, December 20th (Friday)

hathnofury - I posted an update to my story and a question on the Reconciliation forum. Since you seem to be the most knowledgable about this - do you think it's too soon to believe we are at least on the path to R, in light of the fact I dont think he's been entirely honest with me about all the details. But I have accepted that and based on what you've told me so far he may be struggling with that for a number of reasons. I believe he needs IC to determine if true R is even possible, but at least at the moment I believe this is the outcome we both striving for... even if it's false R if he's not capable of healing his issues.

Posts: 24 | Registered: Dec 2013
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 7:11 PM, December 31st (Tuesday)

Bumping for new members in need...


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
Gotmegood
Member
Member # 41407
Default  Posted: 8:44 PM, January 1st (Wednesday)

What a gift to me, to read this post. (Could I have stumbled upon it earlier when I couldn't breathe, couldn't read, and if I did, certainly couldn't comprehend anything....the shock was so great.....maybe).
SI has been my lifeline, seriously. And I read every day. What I have been thru w/ prostitute cheating and having no one but WH to talk to has been the most isolating and frightening experience of my life. I have chosen not to tell my friends and family at this time. One of the problems with this scenario is that in all the shock and really horrible pain, it works against the BS and allows the ridiculously warped thinking of the WS to thrive. My WH is, in all other aspects of his life, a kind, respected, and soft spoken gentleman. SI is my reality check. Here is where I received the information I needed, the validation I needed, and the guts to call bullshit on him when in the first days he said to me "aren't you at least glad it was just a prostitute". I didn't understand justification until I came here.

As I said, I read here every day. And I would read thru the *normal?* infidelities and get to the fog part, and sort of skip it, wrongly thinking it was all about *rainbows and unicorns*. I was so wrong. He very definitely had a fog.....still clinging to it in some ways. No, it's not about being in lurve. But it most certainly is about not facing the ugliness that is prostitution. And to me, for any R to happen, this fog needs to lift.
I could write for another 3 hours about what this hell has been like. Most importantly, I am better than I was when I first found out because of this site, and time. Thanks for this thread from the bottom of my heart.


Me: faithful wife 62.
Him: WH 64 , prostitute 20 yr old
DDay: 8-13-2013
Status: boinging up and down like a yo-yo

Posts: 462 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Florida
Compartmented
Member
Member # 29410
Default  Posted: 11:11 AM, January 19th (Sunday)

Bumping for new members...

Posts: 1257 | Registered: Aug 2010
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 2:57 PM, February 3rd (Monday)

Bumping for new members....


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
scarednbroken
Member
Member # 41961
Default  Posted: 4:27 PM, February 3rd (Monday)

Thank you so much for bumping this! My WH has an AP but also visits prostitutes, etc.

I did see a post that said there was a statute of limitations of a fault adultery in some states also. This is a question that I will definitely have to ask. As I have over 20 years worth of evidence, but I have also tried getting him to stop for those 20 years. I am hoping that it doesn't count against me - trying to save my M that is....


Thanks again...


BS: Me 44 WH: 50 Kids: 13, 15, 17, 28 DD: every yr Ow: tons Status: fed-up. A woman should never invest in a relationship she wouldn't want for her daughter, nor should she allow any man to treat her in a way she would scold her son for

Posts: 417 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Midwest
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 1:54 PM, February 24th (Monday)

Bumping for new members...


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 1:54 PM, February 24th (Monday)

Bumping for new members...


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
Gotmegood
Member
Member # 41407
Default  Posted: 3:31 PM, February 24th (Monday)

I think this was a stellar idea to repost, and to include in the JFO forum.
You described me perfectly. I found out last August that my WH went to a prostitute for sex. Maybe within a month of reeling in pain and confusion and ISOLATION (betrayal with a prostitute?????? Come on. Who would I like to share that information with? My mother? My daughter? My friends?) I happened upon this site, and nothing that I bumped into before learning to navigate here, seemed to speak to me and my particular hurt. But I kept reading, and sort of recognized that while most cheating, I guess, occurs with someone known to the WS and that doesn't get paid for acts of sex, the FEELINGS expressed by the BS were recognizable to me. So I kept coming here, and eventually joined. Good thing I did, this was/is my life raft. As I began meekly posting, I had some invaluable answers and some PM's from other members, some having dealt with a WH into prostitutes, and others not. But each was heartfelt, helpful and kept me saner than I otherwise might have been.
It is interesting to me, now that this unpleasant underbelly world of escorts (or whatever euphemistic name they'd like to be known as) has been brought to my attention, that there aren't waaaay more BS's on here looking for help, knowledge or comfort in dealing with a WS with this predilection as the internet is simply FILLED with ads for prostitutes. Thousands and thousands of them. Everywhere, like cockroaches. Anyway, if I can be of help to any unfortunate newbie in this circumstance, I'm more than happy to give back. I've gotten so much here.


Me: faithful wife 62.
Him: WH 64 , prostitute 20 yr old
DDay: 8-13-2013
Status: boinging up and down like a yo-yo

Posts: 462 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Florida
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 4:37 PM, February 26th (Wednesday)

Bumping for new members. Want to also point out anonymous encounters includes Craiglist/Backpage and similar ads, Ashley Madison type sites, any hookup sites where you meet strangers for sex, "glory hole" locations, swinger's clubs, etc. The original post tends to give prostitute examples but was intended to include these groups as well.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
forgivingnow
Member
Member # 33549
Default  Posted: 9:47 AM, March 21st (Friday)

Bump for (((swank)))


Me-BS 51
FWH-51
M 31 yrs.
Dday 3-19-11, TT 10/2011, Full truth July 2013
Strength comes from within. You can't get it from someone or go somewhere to get it. It is already here, waiting to be used when you need it most. Believe in yourself.
R

Posts: 609 | Registered: Oct 2011
Healinggirl
Member
Member # 39747
Default  Posted: 11:00 AM, March 21st (Friday)

Thankyou for bumping this. I might print it out, it's such good info.


Me 58
WS 58 Sexually abused as a boy
OW Prostitutes in double figures
OW number ??? Just another immoral female

D Day 11 November 2012
Reconciling

You can't scale a mountain in a single step


Posts: 145 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Uk
Aussiescot
New Member
Member # 39265
Default  Posted: 11:47 AM, March 21st (Friday)

Thankyou hathnofury!
This information is soo desperately needed.....unfortunately


BS
4 DD's
DD 2012
New life started march 2014, false R! Still on the rollercoaster but will ride it out until the end.....because that's just how I roll

Posts: 48 | Registered: May 2013
swank
Member
Member # 42835
Default  Posted: 1:40 PM, March 21st (Friday)

Thank you so much for bumping this.

I have a lot to say but not a lot of time. I'm very happy to know there are others in similar situations - it feels so isolating and dirty to find out something like this about someone you care for.

In our case we are working hard in individual and couples therapy and I think we've made some progress. It hasn't been easy, but one thing I think about a lot, and the therapists have talked about as well, is that for all this time (and it was a loooong time), he kept me in his life and treated me very well, when it would have been easy for him to cut me loose - we're not married. I know some of you might laugh at that but to me, knowing what I know about our life together, it counts for something and it's what keeps me making the effort.

In some ways I'm more troubled by a non-sexual friendship he had with a woman he met at a strip club many years ago. She refused to have sex with him because he had a girlfriend, but they became friends, met for lunch, etc. I do believe this story, you'll just have to take my word for that. Anyhow, he did end up giving her a lot of financial support over the years and she still knows how to get to him. From time to time she still pops up asking for something. He hasn't been responding to her texts or calls, and we've told her that this is done and she has to stop contacting him. It does seem to be getting through to her. For me, that emotional connection is more painful than the non-emotional sexual connection with the whores.

Ok, this is a lot. I'm looking forward to your comments.


Posts: 92 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
swank
Member
Member # 42835
Default  Posted: 6:49 AM, March 22nd (Saturday)

No new responses? I was hoping people would want to talk about this more.

I can say that my bf has worked hard at figuring out why he did what he did. I don't respect his reasons, but they make some sense to me given who he is and what his life has been like. I do believe he's sincere in his remorse. He gets a lot angrier than he used to, though. My therapist says guilt and anger are very closely connected and that when he feels guilty he'll lash out with anger.

I feel like things are improving though I know he'd like it to be faster. If he was reading SI I think he'd be impressed with how much better I'm doing - some people really struggle for so long.

I'm looking forward to a time when I don't have to question everything he does and says. But is that even possible? Sometimes I don't believe it.


Posts: 92 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
Healinggirl
Member
Member # 39747
Default  Posted: 1:45 PM, March 22nd (Saturday)

Swank, if he's doing his part in getting therapy and proving to you that he's remorseful, you will heal quicker. It still takes time, though.

H read 'How To Heal Your Spouse From Your Affair' which gave him a roadmap to use. He followed it all to the letter and still does. That showed me that he was genuinely committed to helping me recover, and to his own recovery. I don't need to question his every move anymore because he's totally transparent about everything, and that is vital. I needed to know his thoughts, never mind anything else, because thoughts are where it all starts. And he's been happy to do that, which has led to a greater intimacy between us.

You both sound like its all going in the right direction.

H and I are almost healed. If we can do this, so can the both of you.

[This message edited by Healinggirl at 1:47 PM, March 22nd (Saturday)]


Me 58
WS 58 Sexually abused as a boy
OW Prostitutes in double figures
OW number ??? Just another immoral female

D Day 11 November 2012
Reconciling

You can't scale a mountain in a single step


Posts: 145 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Uk
swank
Member
Member # 42835
Default  Posted: 3:23 PM, March 22nd (Saturday)

Healinggirl, thank you so much for that. I'm going to look for that book. I know healing is possible, but so much of the time my heart is so heavy and my thoughts are so black. I'm trying to hang onto the happier times, and to messages like yours that show me what's possible.

Posts: 92 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
Compartmented
Member
Member # 29410
Default  Posted: 9:58 AM, March 23rd (Sunday)

For me, that emotional connection is more painful than the non-emotional sexual connection with the whores.
Swank, my X had been with tons of prostitutes, but also had an emotional affair, so I felt both types of betrayal. They do hurt in different ways. I'll always despise her! The prostitutes disgust me.

Good luck working through this. It hurts tons. My advice is to always trust your gut and take care of YOU.


Posts: 1257 | Registered: Aug 2010
swank
Member
Member # 42835
Default  Posted: 10:23 AM, March 23rd (Sunday)

Compartmented, I'm sorry you had to go through all of that. I feel your pain.

I'm curious about whether you managed to keep your relationship together. I could use any advice!


Posts: 92 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
Compartmented
Member
Member # 29410
Default  Posted: 5:05 PM, March 23rd (Sunday)

I definitely could not keep the relationship together. X would not agree to seek/accept help. I think he's probably too deep into his addiction(s). He's been a daily heavy drinker for decades, and I think he's damaged his thinking ability. He actually believes his delusions. It's very sad.

He turned out to be quite abusive during the divorce, even more so than he'd been in the marriage. I no longer have contact with him, to keep myself safe.

Don't let that discourage you, though. Mine didn't ever seem to have any remorse. He's more affected, in my opinion, on the personality disordered side than the addicted side.


Posts: 1257 | Registered: Aug 2010
swank
Member
Member # 42835
Default  Posted: 5:28 PM, March 23rd (Sunday)

I'm so sorry, but it sounds like you're well out of that situation. I do feel fortunate (um, sort of) that my bf is willing to do the work and really does seem to accept responsibility. It's not perfect. He loses his temper sometimes. I can't help but compare myself to the images I've seen of the women he paid for. It's a long long long road. I hope you've found peace with your decisions.

Posts: 92 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 10:10 PM, March 29th (Saturday)

Bumping for new members. Want to also point out anonymous encounters includes Craiglist/Backpage and similar ads, Ashley Madison type sites, any hookup sites where you meet strangers for sex, "glory hole" locations, swinger's clubs, etc. The original post tends to give prostitute examples but was intended to include these groups as well.

Swank and others, there are people who have survived this and stayed with their partner/spouse. Some of them post in the Spouses and Partners of Sex Addicts forum, others post in various other ICR forums. I cannot emphasize enough if you are brave enough to start your own posts about your concerns in JFO/General/Reconciliation, you will get lots of advice and suggestions from people of all walks of like here. Going to a local S-Anon group will also connect you to people in your sitch in real life.

I remember being about three months out and desperately wanting an example of a couple that had been through this and "made it" so I knew I wasn't crazy for even trying. I assure you there are some here. But it comes at a heavy price that you will not be able to comprehend right now. I am not saying it couldn't be worth it, I am saying you will have to wait some time before you will be able to understand what this means and whether it is worth it.

I wish at the time I was more concerned about truly understanding I could not trust my WS as far as I could throw him at that time (despite appearing to be remorseful and truthful to *me* in my traumatized state) and focused on why I would want to pursue a relationship with someone capable of doing that to me. I think if I had truly grasped those concepts earlier, things may have played out very differently. But at least I had been lucky enough to stumble through most of the tips in the reference part of this thread. And that comes from posting and reading lots here on SI and compiling the knowledge of the Collective.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
Gotmegood
Member
Member # 41407
Default  Posted: 11:53 PM, March 29th (Saturday)

Swank- very sorry that you are living through the hell that I know. I cannot say that we are all fixed, but I can tell you honestly that I don't feel as 'black', to quote you, as I did in the first 6 months. Here's a bit of hope for you: I rarely think about the cockroach/prostitute anymore. I rarely have the nightmare mind movies anymore. I don't look at its ads on the internet anymore.
One of the biggest shocks to me was that my WH was in a fog. I thought that only applied to waywards who chose 'normal' women to be unfaithful with. No no no. Big fog here. It took a long time for him to clearly see the risks he took with our health. It took a long time for him to admit to the inappropriateness of his actions.
Best of all my news for you is this- I feel I have my power back. When the initial shock of this trauma wears off, you will think better, make clearer decisions, and you will really KNOW that this shameful, degrading behavior was not yours. Nor did you cause it.
I've written this before; it's still an enormous surprise to me that this isn't one of the most commented on threads. When this underbelly of society was brought into my life without my knowledge or consent, I began researching. I had never even heard of Backpage or 'escort' sites or Ashley Madison. And boy did I dig. Almost obsessively. Unfortunately it is quite prevalent. So I don't get why on SI it seems to be such a small minority. But we're here. And we'll be here for you when you need us. Good luck.


Me: faithful wife 62.
Him: WH 64 , prostitute 20 yr old
DDay: 8-13-2013
Status: boinging up and down like a yo-yo

Posts: 462 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Florida
swank
Member
Member # 42835
Default  Posted: 6:26 AM, March 30th (Sunday)

Gotmegood, thanks for your message. I'm also surprised that so few on SI have dealt with this problem.

I'm happy to hear you're doing better. I am too. I've stopped looking at the sites my bf posted his exploits on. I know what he did had nothing to do with me. Out biggest issues now are his continuing impatience and tendency to get angry. I understand that he's sick of talking about this - so am I! But he created the situation and I was forced into it. I wish he could be a little more patient with the process. What he's doing now isn't helping us to heal.

It's good to know I'm not the only one going through this special hell.


Posts: 92 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 6:17 PM, March 31st (Monday)

Bumping for new members. Seeing more posts about people with WS into hookers and anonymous encounters in JFO these days. :(

Remember that Anonymous Encounters includes hookup sites, swinger clubs, pretty much any means of meeting people for sex whether or not money is exchanged. They are all cut from the same cloth.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
outtanowhere
Member
Member # 39001
Default  Posted: 9:47 AM, April 6th (Sunday)

Bump


BS - 57
SAWH - 60 multiple encounters with prostitutes and other sex workers
Married 37 years
Dday - 2/19/13 - found the emails
He promised me Heaven then put me thru hell

Posts: 724 | Registered: Apr 2013
OnlyDo
Member
Member # 41991
Default  Posted: 11:43 AM, April 6th (Sunday)

Thanks so much for this. I've had a Very Bad weekend and needed to know I'm not alone.


me BW 55
him SAWH 39
19 yrs, 2 kids
Multiple D days Sep 2011 - Jan 2014
EA's, PA, Craigslist, Backpages, strip clubs, lap dances, camgirls, "massages", prostitutes
Separated, heading towards divorce

Posts: 96 | Registered: Jan 2014
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 8:18 PM, April 30th (Wednesday)

Bump


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
NaiveAgain
Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 9:51 AM, May 1st (Thursday)

I just found this thread and I think it is good timing for me. I've been here a while due to the WS that brought me here, and I felt I had moved on nicely and healed, but I am discovering that I was so busy cleaning up the messes he made in my life that I hadn't really had any down time to relax and process a lot of the betrayal. Also, over the years, people that knew him have talked to me more since they realize we are definitely done, and it is like D-day all over again as I find out more and more of what he had done. I also am having a lot of "aha" moments as realizations of some of the lies he told me are brought to light and I now understand the extent of his 2nd life and lies.

Mine was on every hook up site he could find (free) and also webcam sites where he could exchange pics. I found emails to escorts and sites he had visited. He did the escort rating stuff (where you rate them and talk about them as if they are just products you purchase and it is SO dehumanizing...."did you get your money's worth", etc....

It is disgusting me on an entire new level, and I am finding a lot of anger I must have repressed for a while.

I was his "shield." I was the good family he had so he could pretend to be a good family man....the part of his life he presented to the world at large. This made it easier for him to have his 2nd secret life, and there are so many people that have a difficult time believing the crap he did (still does...he hasn't changed.)

He gaslighted on a major scale, and used me to further his good reputation and for finances. He left me financially bereft. I am still trying to climb out from that (I have collection agencies calling me all day long).

I am trying to figure out what to do with all this anger right now.

My IC says I am dealing with it now because I finally feel I am in a safe place and can let down some of my defenses. I have a good partner that I am very thankful for, and that is rebuilding some of my trust in the male population, but I still have times where I feel totally shell-shocked......


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 15223 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 2:10 PM, May 5th (Monday)

Bumping for new members in need...


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
whatgives
Member
Member # 43395
Default  Posted: 11:37 PM, May 12th (Monday)

I am new and just found this post searcing for experiences like mine. Very helpful. Anyway it can be posted at the beginning maybe with it's own category for new comers so they can see there is info. I felt totally alone when I joined. I got some nice messages that were amazing and kept me going but this is so informative. Great job putting this together. Thank you hathnofury......very insiteful I learned something new just reading this.

Posts: 51 | Registered: May 2014 | From: Toronto
broken1126
New Member
Member # 43417
Default  Posted: 10:04 AM, May 13th (Tuesday)

Informative and well organized post. Thank you. My DDay is 4/4/14. Found secret email containing conversations with ow. H has been visiting adult websites. Found an email making a date to see someone...told me he was going out with his buddies. He wants to work on the marriage but I'm sure he's still visiting those websites. He has an obsessive and impulsive personality. He can't manage this on his own. A sex addict? My H?


DDay 4/4/14
Me - BS (40)
WH - (41)
Married 11 yrs.
Two boys 8 and 10 yrs.

An arrow can only be shot by pulling it backward. When life is dragging you back with difficulties, it means it's going to launch you into something great


Posts: 18 | Registered: May 2014
broken1126
New Member
Member # 43417
Default  Posted: 10:20 AM, May 13th (Tuesday)

Naiveagain, you're right, the facade that they want us to be. Nice house, nice family, etc. but behind closed doors it's different. The second lifestyle. How broken they must be to go to such a level. The question I have is is this something that can be repaired???


DDay 4/4/14
Me - BS (40)
WH - (41)
Married 11 yrs.
Two boys 8 and 10 yrs.

An arrow can only be shot by pulling it backward. When life is dragging you back with difficulties, it means it's going to launch you into something great


Posts: 18 | Registered: May 2014
whatgives
Member
Member # 43395
Default  Posted: 10:37 PM, May 13th (Tuesday)

Hi Broken - I'm going through this right now. It's a web of secrets. I found this out when we were new in our relationship but thought we could get past it. We met online so I got the whole addiction thing. I thought it was a habit he needed to break. I can't tell you how I regret giving him that chance.

We moved in together last summer. Sex started to dwindle and I think that's when it all when full circle again. Such a sickness. So many lies, so many people hurt. He says he's going to SA next week but I don't even have any hope in that. If he wanted help he would have done so before this. They go through great lengths to get what they want and preserve the lifestyle. Can they be fixed, not so sure about that one. It's usually something deeply rooted that causes them to do it so there is usually a lot to fix. Feel free to PM me.


Posts: 51 | Registered: May 2014 | From: Toronto
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, May 14th (Wednesday)

Bumping for QuietNoMore and others in need.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
Blindsided234
New Member
Member # 43685
Default  Posted: 8:02 AM, June 11th (Wednesday)

I hope it's okay that I bump this post. Thank you so much for creating this topic..

Even though my dday occurred almost four years ago (November 2010), I have just now started seeking support from people who were/are in a similar situation. It has been just too painful to even search this topic. My trigger for coming here was because June is the month that my WH claims the cheating started (four "women" on 6 different occasions, again..so he claims).. I say "claims" because the email evidence shows June 2010-November 2010, I suspect it was going on longer. I only found out my husband was cheating w/prostitutes because he was arrested. Anyway, I just felt like I needed to share a snip it of my story since everyone has shared so much with the forum. I married a "good man, who loves his mother, and a seemingly loving husband"..never in 4 million years would I or my family expect this..


Posts: 2 | Registered: Jun 2014
putonahappyface
Member
Member # 30269
Default  Posted: 2:21 PM, June 20th (Friday)

Bump for a new member


BS (me) - 50; SAWH- 51 (hurtherbadly)
Married 26 yrs
2 DS - 21&17
Dday 6/4/2010. 2 EA/PA
11/15/12 update: discovered porn addiction
4 years out: M is strong; FWH is a new man :)


Posts: 720 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Bluegrass
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 5:04 PM, June 20th (Friday)

This was a great thread and very appropriate. I think the reason that most of the responders were female is because this problem is most unique to men offenders because a woman inclined to cheat has absolutely no trouble finding a partner without paying for it. If you read the post involving AM, his wife was bombarded with propositions from men before the "send" button was dry. If a woman wants to go to a club for an anonymous encounter she can put a wedding ring on every finger and men will not give a damm. My point is that the very valid points you bring up are not unique, but women who have these desires do not have the need to go to the extreme measure men go to to fulfill them. So the horrible compulsion is there for both sexes, but men take this destructive path that as you say leaves a money trail, more potential health problems, and even greater deceit.
It was very interesting to read and very well thought out. Thank you for posting.

Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Raspberry
Member
Member # 42853
Default  Posted: 5:51 PM, June 20th (Friday)

I must be evil but I wish my husband would have gotten caught and arrested. That woukd have rocked his world. Stupid pig. He's trying everything to win me back but damage is done.

Posts: 115 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: Raspberry
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 6:48 PM, June 20th (Friday)

Just wanted to point out, while it may very well be more men engage prostitutes than women, women make a disturbingly large amount of the people that engage in anonymous encounters. Just ask The Menz. In many ways that can be even more dangerous, because they can meet people that are dangerous, and it only ups the ante if they bring strangers home. People that do this put not only themselves in danger, but also anyone in their family or friends circle. And for those who engage prostitutes, if it goes on long enough eventually they turn to anonymous encounters when that loses its "charm".

It is my regret when I initially compiled this I did not make more emphasis and examples for those whose spouses and significant others are into anonymous encounters. I tend to write using examples from my own life, and WH's path toward anonymous encounters had only just begun after DDay#1 so I just don't have much personal history to share. But I have spoken with and read about many BS's who do have that in their WS's history, and the effects on them are mostly the same as those with only history of prostitutes.

It's brutal to endure, and you feel terribly isolated, and its difficult to figure out what to do and who to tell. That is what SI is for. Please don't feel like you are alone in this. Use this and other threads to educate yourself, and create your own threads to ask for guidance and support.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
outtanowhere
Member
Member # 39001
Default  Posted: 2:13 PM, June 23rd (Monday)

Bump


BS - 57
SAWH - 60 multiple encounters with prostitutes and other sex workers
Married 37 years
Dday - 2/19/13 - found the emails
He promised me Heaven then put me thru hell

Posts: 724 | Registered: Apr 2013
outtanowhere
Member
Member # 39001
Default  Posted: 8:07 PM, June 26th (Thursday)

Bumping for new member


BS - 57
SAWH - 60 multiple encounters with prostitutes and other sex workers
Married 37 years
Dday - 2/19/13 - found the emails
He promised me Heaven then put me thru hell

Posts: 724 | Registered: Apr 2013
MissWhoKnew
New Member
Member # 43580
Default  Posted: 3:16 PM, June 27th (Friday)

I am so glad to have found this particular topic! My WH story is another branch from it.

Here is basically when it started (Late summer of 2010) and what I have learned from it. WH had been texting (no pictures and no phone calls) with another woman for about 7 months when I discovered (june 2011) a number texted to on our cell phone bill. He said he would stop and according to cell bill it did. For about a year (he was definitely in midlife crisis mode) he was always going out doing something. He did bowl a couple of nights a week on teams hee has been on forever. BUT he had been going to a strip bar afterwards for a couple of drinks and meeting with the same stripper (30yr old) every time. This was the woman that was texting with him for about 7 months.

Supposedly he would go in there and pay for the dancers drink and they would just talk about everything. She would be focused only on him, rubbing his back and stroking his ego. I know there were lap dances on many occasions.

When I finally dug enough and found out she was a stripper at a local strip bar I confronted my husband. This was in August 2013. He had started to stay home except for the two bowling nights (and imagine this...He was getting home about an hour earlier). I know he hasn't seen her since probably last May or june 2013.

Then boom!! We are at my brothers house and he and my WH go golfing. He left both his phones on night stand. You are darn tootin that I looked in those phones. I found on his work phone 5 selfies of the stripper...and the date was 3/28/14. I felt like someone hit me with a concrete wall. The first photo was of her in her pretty bra and undies, next was one of her masturbating with a vibrator (obviously my husband took that photo), the next was of her bent over with ass in the air and panties down, next one was of here sitting on her knees and some man was a little away back behind her, next one was similar except the man had his hand sticking out under her crotch to the front with a smiley face on it.

I thought I was literally going to die!!! We had been doing so good since August. How could this have happened. Our sex life and communication had started getting really good over the past year or so. It was weird because sex wise, he didn't do anything differently than before. No new tricks and I was expecting some different moves. Then boom this happens...

The short story is he had been called to the club by the manager who he had made friends with over these past couple of years. A detective was there to ask questions about incident with this stripper. Another stripper and her got in an argument about a year back and that stripper punched this one in the face. She filed charges. I finally got most of this story after several arguments. The mgr started pouring them all some shots after the detective left. The stripper grabbed his work phone and ran towards the back through some curtains. Evidently she started playing a game of if I'm in my underwear you have to be in yours, to get the phone back. Of course one thing lead to another. Supposedly there has never been intercourse between them.

My WH tried to defend himself initially by saying he didn't go there to see her, he never planned it. He know she would be there. I guess that was supposed to make me feel better!? I told him it really didn't matter how or why he was there. He made the choice to play. He could've told the mgr that the detective can come see him or arrange a meeting with him. He never should've gone to the club. He promised me he wouldn't.

I have been in IC with a therapist that specializes in PTSD for about a month now. It has really helped. I have made my WH talk and communicate with me more and more. That is a deal breaker if he won't. Thanks to the great advice on this site I am now the one in the driver's seat. I have explained to WH that our marriage based on his actions day in and day out.

He finally is starting to realize some of the extent of pain he has caused me. But a person will never understand unless they have to go through this living hell.

I do have a gps tracker on the car. It has been there since the beginning of May. He is always where he says he is going to be. I don't know that I will ever stop using it. I know I will never fully trust him again. I don't think i will ever get the whole story. That part makes me both sad and angry!

From all the BS's that post on here...thank you for your advice. I'm truly realize this will be a journey for the rest of my married days. I know that I am as at fault as he is for the problems in our marriage that lead us to this point...but he made a choice that is 100% his own fault.

Sorry this is so long. There just it's really so much to say to try and explain or situations.

[This message edited by TimeToGrowUp at 10:43 PM, June 27th (Friday)]


Me:BW 51, Him:WH 56
DS 26, DD 24; Dday: 4/19/14
Married: 29 years
Reconcile: A work in progress...
Dday: 4/2014 TT for over a year.
------------------------------------
You're not alone in how you've been, everybody loses we all got bruises

Posts: 35 | Registered: May 2014 | From: Land of Oz
outtanowhere
Member
Member # 39001
Default  Posted: 12:36 PM, June 29th (Sunday)

Bump


BS - 57
SAWH - 60 multiple encounters with prostitutes and other sex workers
Married 37 years
Dday - 2/19/13 - found the emails
He promised me Heaven then put me thru hell

Posts: 724 | Registered: Apr 2013
lifeshattered
New Member
Member # 43123
Default  Posted: 12:55 PM, June 29th (Sunday)

Thank you for bumping this topic.
The past body count went up by 3 just this morning :( Guess I need to change my signature.


BS - 58
SAWH -57 - 22 prostitutes and online sex
Married 33 years
3 grown children
2 Granddaughters
33 years of lies

Posts: 25 | Registered: Apr 2014
Compartmented
Member
Member # 29410
Default  Posted: 7:39 PM, July 21st (Monday)

bumping for new members

Posts: 1257 | Registered: Aug 2010
outtanowhere
Member
Member # 39001
Default  Posted: 8:16 PM, July 27th (Sunday)

Bump


BS - 57
SAWH - 60 multiple encounters with prostitutes and other sex workers
Married 37 years
Dday - 2/19/13 - found the emails
He promised me Heaven then put me thru hell

Posts: 724 | Registered: Apr 2013
MadOldBat
Member
Member # 44146
Default  Posted: 7:16 AM, July 28th (Monday)


[This message edited by MadOldBat at 7:06 PM, August 5th (Tuesday)]


Trying to keep my chin(s) up

Posts: 68 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: United Kingdom
MadOldBat
Member
Member # 44146
Default  Posted: 5:43 PM, July 28th (Monday)

Goodness, but doesn't't he feel so much better after he's told me all (?)
So relieved that now everything is out in the open he can answer any other questions I might have for him, and not be caught out in a lie.
It's truly soul destroying.
And he's not once asked about what it is that I am feeling, or my emotional reaction.
Just 'you ok?'
FFS, of course I'm not ok.

[This message edited by MadOldBat at 7:07 PM, August 5th (Tuesday)]


Trying to keep my chin(s) up

Posts: 68 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: United Kingdom
meleanoro
Member
Member # 6210
Default  Posted: 8:20 PM, July 28th (Monday)

((((((Madoldbat))))))

Dear God, I am sorry.

I have let years of my WH's pity party run the show.

Please consider a timeline as to how long you'll let him keep it about HIM--and not see you. (Your pain). A cursory nod toward your feelings isn't remorse.

Thinking of you.


Me: Tired BS.
(I frequently edit for typos)

Posts: 255 | Registered: Jan 2005
Bria80
New Member
Member # 43789
Default  Posted: 9:27 PM, July 28th (Monday)

Thank you so much for posting this. There is a certain type of shame that comes with being cheated on with prostitutes and this information is very helpful.

Posts: 13 | Registered: Jun 2014
EnoughNow
New Member
Member # 44278
Default  Posted: 11:10 PM, July 28th (Monday)

Why would any of you (me) stay with a WS in this situation? I have suspected and now know my WS has had a few anonymous/prostitute encounters, and two emotional A's. Why on earth would I stay, and continue to wonder? WS has been very smooth - I can't often tell when he's lying, usually only when I find evidence.
I'm moving on, after 16 years of wondering, confirming, wondering, confirming. Enough is enough. But I would really like to know why I'm reading so many comments about reconciling, even after all that.

Posts: 1 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: CA
brokenmess
New Member
Member # 44282
Default  Posted: 1:19 AM, July 29th (Tuesday)

I am too wondering why I am considering R? Within a few months of our relationship my WS was making online dating profiles? I forgave him. It just continued to get worse each d-day. The last d-day, he had taken the day off, mid-week to spend with my DD and I for her 3rd Bday. I had woke up early that morning and was unable to go back to sleep, I was excited about our day together. Then I hear his phone on vibrate going off- it was 6:15am. I thought maybe it is his work, he has to be there by 6am, and they forgot he requested the day off? I went to answer it bc he was still asleep, hey I'll let him sleep in and remind his work. But oh was I ever so mistaken!! I couldn't answer the phone, who was this "T", I didn't recognize the #. Then there was a voicemail, "I tried to txt & call u, u need to send me money." Well, I guess he forgot to let his prostitute know he would be at home, not to call?!? He says he only met her once, last yr, and she is blackmailing him for $? So I spent a few hrs begging for answers, while our DD was still sleeping. So, skipping ahead over a month, into my nightmare/horror story, I wonder too why? Why reconcile? Why? And I am lost? Thanks for reading- there is so much more to tell. I have found some comfort reading others posts, first bit of relief I have had in a month, helps to just know I'm not alone


Me BS,36 him WS,37 14 yrs together 1 DD d-day1-12/00-online dating profiles
8/2004- EA OW, no SPA
10/2010- txts/pics to OW
D-day4- 6/2014- confession of escort
Now 6/14- feel blindsided? & broken
Update- 9/8/14- gave ultimatum & dealbreakers

Posts: 10 | Registered: Jul 2014
determinata
Member
Member # 42124
Default  Posted: 1:59 PM, July 29th (Tuesday)

EnoughNow

I think the answers vary by person. Some of us are dangerously codependent. Some of us are still trying to grasp that this has really happened and the shock hasn't set in yet. Some of us love our spouses. Some of us feel as though we cannot find a way out.

I'm not reconciling with my SAWH but I tried to do so for years. I was very naive about his prognosis as a sex addict and I was so invested in what our relationship was supposed to be that I ignored what it was. Since I had my son the scales have begun to fall from my eyes but everyone has their different timing and reasons.


M 2007. DDay 2008
~10+ CL Prostitutes in 8 months
Divorcing SAWH "ActionsOverWords"
Me: Early 30s BW (also an adult OC) w Baby DS

6 years of TT, hidden STD & false R
Separated 5 mos+; he will not commit
Someday I will be okay


Posts: 288 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New York City
Gotmegood
Member
Member # 41407
Default  Posted: 6:01 PM, July 29th (Tuesday)

MadOldBat- I feel sad that your WH brought the cesspool of prostitutes into your life. It was something I really didn't care to know about, never mind that my WH decided to bring into my relationship behind my back. It is shocking and it is gross. I am nearing the year mark of when I was blindsided by my spouses choice to try to screw a prostitute. It was a long horrid year. We separated for 3 months. I will tell you a few things I've learned that have helped me. First of all, you come first now. You've been traumatized and emotionally need support from every angle. He has not been putting you, your emotional or physical health first at all with his shitty, immature choices. Take care of yourself, let him fend for himself. Counseling for you. Std testing for you. A lawyer's appointment for you. Understand your financial situation and ensure that he has not transmitted any gross diseases; sex w/ prostitutes is very risky business, even in a 5 star hotel. Order the book called How To Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair by McDonald. It succinctly explains the depths of his betrayal. While it isn't specifically written about cheating w/ a prostitute, it is a terrific book for WH and for you. It will validate all your feelings....you aren't crazy, you're not a bitch, and it WAS NOT your fault. I seriously feel that a man who commits this brand of adultery has a very deep selfish and entitled streak. And this did NOT happen over night. The self absorbed person who can do this has been planting the seeds for a long while. "It was only sex". "Lots of men do it". Etc. don't expect him to realize the depth of the knifing he inflicted on you. You can PM me if you want. I send all the strength I can your way. It sucks, but you will be better after a time. BE GOOD TO YOU.


Me: faithful wife 62.
Him: WH 64 , prostitute 20 yr old
DDay: 8-13-2013
Status: boinging up and down like a yo-yo

Posts: 462 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Florida
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 8:42 AM, July 30th (Wednesday)

Why would any of you (me) stay with a WS in this situation? I have suspected and now know my WS has had a few anonymous/prostitute encounters, and two emotional A's. Why on earth would I stay, and continue to wonder? WS has been very smooth - I can't often tell when he's lying, usually only when I find evidence.

That is a very good question. In your sitch, I would not stay. But I would not stay or R with anyone that continued to lie, betray, be unfaithful, and was not remorseful and had no intention of changing, irrespective of whether prostitutes/anonymous encounters were involved. The fact that he is so smooth about lying only makes me more concerned for your health and safety.

Why would anybody else stay is an entirely different question. Usually we are completely blindsided, and discovery is extremely traumatic. It is difficult to tell which way is up, much less make effective decisions about your life when this happens. But these are my candid observations about whether anyone should stay:

If you are not already married, DON'T get married. You do not want legal entanglements or legal/financial liability for someone capable of this. If this is non-negotiable for you, then you really need to consider moving on so you can have a spouse that is worth of such commitment. The recovery of WS brokeness and the repair of your relationship will take at least 2-5 years, maybe longer before you should even consider M. Most people capable of this kind of infidelity are not worth waiting that long for. If M is important to you, you really need to consider moving on and pursuing that with someone more worthy of that commitment.

If you do not already have kids together, DON'T have any. If you do, DON'T have any more. The sheer impacts of a parent selfish enough to do this on children is profound. If they continue, they are putting the whole family's lives at risk. If they do accept R and do everything needed to heal themselves and your M, they will be in therapy and support groups/12 step so much they will be a burden as a co-parent anyway. If you divorce, the custody battles will likely be difficult, and the WS is much more likely to do all the horrific examples in the S&D forum of expensively stalling legal procedures, not paying CS, sabotaging visitation, neglect or abuse of children in their care, and alienating you as the sane parent. If having kids is important to you, you should really consider moving on and having them with someone else or adopting/having them as a single parent.

That being said, take things one day at a time. Because D can be nasty, you do want to make a good exit plan with most benefits and least damage to you (even if you don't know yet if you want to stay or D). Get your ducks in a row and see a L right away to learn your options.

I currently have chosen to stay, but that is a a daily decision for me. In my case, it was much more legally advantageous to pursue a post-nup while WS was still professing guilt and saying he was willing to do anything to save the M. I made the post-nup a condition of considering R, and I used the time to get my ducks in a row as SAHM with no recent employment history recently moved 1000 miles from family and friends.

I used that time to get the therapy *I* needed to heal, to get the STD and other medical issues addressed, to take the most advantage of every legal option available. I changed a lot of our financial issues to take my name off the majority of our debt and get me back into the workforce. I had boundaries set for him to pursue his healing, which he minimally met for about a year. Even though there was no infidelity post-DD, there was not much progress and certainly not the level of commitment needed for R on his part.

By the time I had my ducks in a row, and WS saw I could really do well if not better without him at all, that he could lose everything...that was when he finally committed to healing, R, and recovery in earnest. THAT's when he stepped up and started doing everything he should have done from the beginning. If I had not needed the time to get my ducks in a row, I would have been long gone.

But I could only do this because he was not continuing the behavior and putting us all at risk and is doing the work for R and self-healing. If at any time I found out otherwise, he would be gone and he knows it. He white-knuckled a long time before committing to getting real help.

I continue to decide whether to stay on a daily basis, because I have the luxury I can and I want my kids to have two reasonably parents available to them as long as possible. But I can't say I would even consider it if kids weren't in the picture, because I wouldn't have gotten this far if I didn't have kids to consider in arranging my exit plan. To be honest I was never convinced he'd ever be able to step up and that I would have stayed this long. But full disclosure, it would always be this way - a daily decision - because I will never have the luxury of knowing he can be trusted for life. For many that is enough to leave right there.

I don't want to say there is no hope for R for those in this sitch, it is possible and there are people here who have achieved it. But please know it comes with a heavy price tag. It is absolutely ok if it is a deal-breaker for you.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
outtanowhere
Member
Member # 39001
Default  Posted: 2:52 PM, July 30th (Wednesday)

Bump


BS - 57
SAWH - 60 multiple encounters with prostitutes and other sex workers
Married 37 years
Dday - 2/19/13 - found the emails
He promised me Heaven then put me thru hell

Posts: 724 | Registered: Apr 2013
gotcha
Member
Member # 44304
Default  Posted: 3:31 PM, July 30th (Wednesday)

where/how does one get access to a lie detector test?

also, not sure if this is the place to ask, but how do you search this forum?


Me - 27 BS
Him - 26, SAWH
DS, 9 months
Married Aug 2013, together for 6 years prior
DDay- June 25th 2014
Countless backpage escorts in 1st year of marriage, pre-M affairs and flings (just finding out), web cam girls, you name it.

Posts: 160 | Registered: Jul 2014
outtanowhere
Member
Member # 39001
Default  Posted: 3:42 PM, July 30th (Wednesday)

Gotcha, just google that too. I found a local law practice that does polygraphs in their office for $300. Very good idea I might add!


BS - 57
SAWH - 60 multiple encounters with prostitutes and other sex workers
Married 37 years
Dday - 2/19/13 - found the emails
He promised me Heaven then put me thru hell

Posts: 724 | Registered: Apr 2013
brokenmess
New Member
Member # 44282
Default  Posted: 4:10 PM, July 31st (Thursday)

I had posted on another thread and using the 180 was suggested. I have read and reread through the plan. It's seems as though the more I do these things over the last few days, I sometimes feel better and most of the time worse? Is the 180 plan geared towards building yourself back up? Seems like the less I bring up what has happened the better for him- not me. But maybe that's what I need, to focus on myself? Thanks for advice.


Me BS,36 him WS,37 14 yrs together 1 DD d-day1-12/00-online dating profiles
8/2004- EA OW, no SPA
10/2010- txts/pics to OW
D-day4- 6/2014- confession of escort
Now 6/14- feel blindsided? & broken
Update- 9/8/14- gave ultimatum & dealbreakers

Posts: 10 | Registered: Jul 2014
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 10:22 AM, August 1st (Friday)

Brokenmess, the 180 really has nothing to do with the WS. It is about YOU detaching from the situation and putting yourself first. Dealing with the trauma of infidelity, addressing your own needs for healing, etc. Because you can't move forward together if WS doesn't want to do the work. So you just move on and do the work for YOU. If the WS is really willing to do what is needed, the 180 is not necessary. Some do start to see the light after you employ the 180, but that is not what it is for.

It is really hard to see right now when you JFO and are in such pain. But if you have a WS that is not doing anything and everything to heal and R, then the sooner you can 180, the sooner you will be able to truly help yourself and figure out what YOU need to make yourself happy.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
brokenmess
New Member
Member # 44282
Default  Posted: 11:58 AM, August 1st (Friday)

That's exactly what I was uncertain about, thanks for reply. It is very hard when you JFO. It's has been 5 weeks for me, still feels like yesterday.

I am still trying to sort out all the how, why's and what ifs. I thought doing the 180 would make him see what he has done, make him feel left out, suffer. That was my mind set.

Thanks to you and to the others, who have further explained the 180 and are helping me see that my efforts need to be geared towards my healing. And it's okay to focus on my DD and myself. I hope others find a way, it's not easy, I am learning to go a day at a time and that's a start.


Me BS,36 him WS,37 14 yrs together 1 DD d-day1-12/00-online dating profiles
8/2004- EA OW, no SPA
10/2010- txts/pics to OW
D-day4- 6/2014- confession of escort
Now 6/14- feel blindsided? & broken
Update- 9/8/14- gave ultimatum & dealbreakers

Posts: 10 | Registered: Jul 2014
outtanowhere
Member
Member # 39001
Default  Posted: 2:03 PM, August 5th (Tuesday)

Bump for new members


BS - 57
SAWH - 60 multiple encounters with prostitutes and other sex workers
Married 37 years
Dday - 2/19/13 - found the emails
He promised me Heaven then put me thru hell

Posts: 724 | Registered: Apr 2013
somer222
Member
Member # 21377
Default  Posted: 3:48 PM, August 10th (Sunday)

bump for new members

Posts: 1406 | Registered: Oct 2008
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 3:52 PM, August 10th (Sunday)

Whatever makes yourself feel more grounded..The better you feel the more you can do and make decisions that impact your day to day life..
Whatever is in the big picture of your life (in your mind) will keep changing until you get him out of your life or decide to R....


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1179 | Registered: Nov 2011
somer222
Member
Member # 21377
Default  Posted: 2:39 PM, August 11th (Monday)

bump again for new members.

Posts: 1406 | Registered: Oct 2008
Hurtingnnc
Member
Member # 44284
Default  Posted: 2:49 PM, August 11th (Monday)

Thanks for bumping this. More info I needed.


Me: BGF 45
Him: WBF
DD#1 5/30/14
DD#2 6/7/14
DD#3 6/18/14
It looks like we are done 9/15/14.

Posts: 72 | Registered: Jul 2014
somer222
Member
Member # 21377
Default  Posted: 4:30 AM, August 14th (Thursday)

bump for new members

Posts: 1406 | Registered: Oct 2008
somer222
Member
Member # 21377
Default  Posted: 5:34 AM, August 14th (Thursday)

I am not sure if this has been addressed, but I wanted to post it in case it helps someone who is going through this kind of infidelity and their circumstances are similar to mine.

My D day was five years into my marriage when a stripper/prostitute called me to tell me she was having an affair with my husband. My ex admitted it, and said she was the only one. Also, she was apparently blackmailing him! I was mortified and I made him leave the house. Went through his cell phone bills and sure enough, there were other strippers. He was carrying on with two to three strippers at any given time.

I went through all the records that he had handled and also discovered significant financial infidelity. Suffice it say, I knew that I did not want to stay in the marriage, even though he was acting remorseful and wanted to R. I was done. I was in survival mode at this point.

I also knew he couldn't have gone from the nice, decent guy he'd pretended to be to a lying, thieving, out-of-control sex addict overnight and I strongly suspected he'd brought his problem with him into the marriage and he had covered his tracks extremely well - until D day.

I then called his ex wife and asked her why they got divorced. She told me he had cheated on her over and over. He had told me that she was the cheater. I'd taken his word for it. My bad. I paid dearly for that.

Next day I saw an attorney and was told that since I had made significantly more money during our marriage than he did, I was looking at having to pay him alimony and give him part of my 401K in a divorce. We live in a no-fault state. Doesn't matter what he did. I decided to go a different route.

I filed for a legal annulment, based on fraud, and stated I never would have dated him, let alone married him had I known he had a history of sex addiction and serial cheating and that he'd lied to me about the reason for his first divorce. That was the fraud. The judge agreed that I had been defrauded and he granted a legal annulment. They hand out two to three legal annulments in my state each year, per my attorney.

I did not have to pay my ex anything and I kept my 401K. I at least was able to start over again and make a happy life for myself, free from the financial burden of paying him alimony and sharing my retirement savings.

My guess is that most people do not even know that this option is available, or they mistakenly think that annulments are only for very short-tern marriages. Laws on annulments vary by state, but if your situation is similar to mine, and you want out, talk to your lawyer. In my state, it is required that you do not live as a married couple after you discover the fraud. Another good reason to boot them out of the house on D day.


Posts: 1406 | Registered: Oct 2008
gotcha
Member
Member # 44304
Default  Posted: 8:34 AM, August 14th (Thursday)

Wow, good for you! That is great advice. My H makes ten times as much as me so doesn't particularly help me, but I'm sure it will help a lot of others.


Me - 27 BS
Him - 26, SAWH
DS, 9 months
Married Aug 2013, together for 6 years prior
DDay- June 25th 2014
Countless backpage escorts in 1st year of marriage, pre-M affairs and flings (just finding out), web cam girls, you name it.

Posts: 160 | Registered: Jul 2014
Sadjacey
Member
Member # 41655
Default  Posted: 6:01 AM, August 18th (Monday)

So pleased to have found this thread. I think it needs to be pinned somewhere. It's almost 21 months (yes, still counting, still hurting) since I found out about my WS use of prostitutes (a generation younger than me) first for massage followed by HJ and BJ then penetrative sex. All this over a period of more than 5 years. I am disgusted by the whole concept. Some days I still can't believe he did it,that I am in this situation that I never in my wildest dreams imagined. Some days I wonder whether I want to be with a man who could o what he did. I have been close to kicking him out on more than one occasion. There ares till times ( but less frequent now) when I wish I had, I'm still in the marriage because we've been together for 2/3 of our lives that's a lot of history to lose. I couldn't bear for our two daughters to know about it, I haven't talked to anyone except my IC and our MC about this - just couldn't do it. He seems to be trying really hard, but it took a long time for him to get to this point, TT, gaslighting - the lot. He still seems to harbour some delusions about the prostitutes ( that they were interested in him for example). Trying to build good memories / experiences post DDay, but doubt I will ever trust him completely. And am not sure that there will ever be a time when this doesn't hurt like hell,


Me: BS 59
WH: 60
Married 39 years
Together more than 40
Porn use known since 2005
DDay: 11.24.12 - found emails to prostitute,
Disclosure: TT for months. Still not sure whether I have it all.
DDay 2: 2.20 2014 phone, txt to same prostitute found

Posts: 138 | Registered: Dec 2013
outtanowhere
Member
Member # 39001
Default  Posted: 6:17 AM, August 21st (Thursday)

Bump


BS - 57
SAWH - 60 multiple encounters with prostitutes and other sex workers
Married 37 years
Dday - 2/19/13 - found the emails
He promised me Heaven then put me thru hell

Posts: 724 | Registered: Apr 2013
annie123
New Member
Member # 44430
Default  Posted: 12:16 PM, August 21st (Thursday)

Just reread this post ...All the phases are so true gas lighting fog! Thank u I'm so glad I joined this site when I did!

Posts: 36 | Registered: Aug 2014
hathnofury
Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 8:12 AM, August 31st (Sunday)

Bump for new members.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1473 | Registered: Jun 2011
scaredyKat
Member
Member # 25560
Default  Posted: 11:22 AM, September 2nd (Tuesday)

Bump


Me-BS-60
HIM-SAFWH-63
Damn autocorrect is responsible for the silly errors, sorry!

Posts: 3527 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: In my head
Topic Posts: 172