SurvivingInfidelity.com Forums
Off Topic
User Topic: Haggling Used Car Salesmen
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 5:00 PM, July 25th (Thursday)

I'm in the market for a new (to me) car. And due to circumstances that I can't discuss cause we're in OT, I'm going alone.

Help? What are the dos and don'ts? Obviously Carfax are a biggie, "tried and true" dealers, etc.

Guess what I'm scared of is the haggling. It's a major purchase for me and while I'm not stupid enough to pay full sticker price, I don't know the games. Will being a woman and alone make me an "easy target"? While I'm no car "expert", I'm no idiot either.

There are 3 cars I've been watching online. I just need to drive them and get a feel for them. And of course...haggle.

How can I protect myself and get what I need without feeling taken advantage of or pressured?

Geez, this is scaring me.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne


Posts: 6300 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
hurtbs
Member
Member # 10866
Default  Posted: 5:22 PM, July 25th (Thursday)

Come in with your financing already done.

Use Edmunds.com to get a true price on the car in your area (will also give you local inventory).

Walk away.


Me BW Him XSAWH
DDays 2006, and then numerous more
Divorced 2012

"In life, unlike chess, the game continues after checkmate." - Asimov
"Be patient and tough; someday this pain will be useful to you." - Ovid


Posts: 15325 | Registered: Jun 2006
UndecidedinMA
Member
Member # 33732
Default  Posted: 5:27 PM, July 25th (Thursday)

Don't fall for the gotta talk to my manager. If they try that tell them you will talk to him since he doesn't have the power to make a deal.


ME - BSO
Him - FWSO
OW - DBC Xwife
DDAY 09/14/11 ONS w/DBCxWOW with 4 mos EA
Solidly in R

Posts: 1005 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: MA
sisoon
Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 5:54 PM, July 25th (Thursday)

If you're looking for a used car and don't want to haggle, CarMax seems to be a true no-haggle car store. You'll pay top dollar, but all their customers do, and you'll very probably get a good car. And since they do a great business, there are lots of people who don't want to haggle.

If you go to another business, even female salespeople will figure you're a mark, since you're female, and they'll do their best to rip you off.

I'd stick with CarMax. What you'll spend in extra dollars will probably be worth while.

And your timing may be pretty good - pressure is on to make sales at the end of the month - 7/31.

If you're looking for a new car, I'd give different advice, except about the timing.

T/J - CarMax was started, IIRC, by people who were known in the stereo equipment trade as crooks. Even so, their ethics were head and shoulders above everybody else in the used car business. I guess everything is relative. end T/J


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10352 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
scaredyKat
Member
Member # 25560
Default  Posted: 6:04 PM, July 25th (Thursday)

WALK AWAY.

I learned that at an early age from my father. I always get a reasonable deal. Go armed with what the price should be, based on the Kelly Blue Book value, get the VIN number and check for any accidents or other incidents on CarFax. DON'T accept any service other than CarFax. Be prepared to WALK AWAY. It's a game, not one that's fun, don't take it too seriously, you just have to grin and bear it.

And recognize that these guys have to make a living too. You aren't going to get it without them making a buck.


Me-BS-60
HIM-SAFWH-63
Damn autocorrect is responsible for the silly errors, sorry!

Posts: 3653 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: In my head
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 6:07 PM, July 25th (Thursday)

And recognize that these guys have to make a living too.
Oh absolutely. I'm not out to rip any one off.

Thankfully where I'm looking have all the Carfax available and I just found another place with a similar model. So I can do the "walk away" game more easily.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne


Posts: 6300 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
lieshurt
Member
Member # 14003
Default  Posted: 6:47 PM, July 25th (Thursday)

Come in with your financing already done.

^^^^This.


Walk away from anything or anyone who takes away your joy. Life is too short to put up with fools.

Posts: 13807 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Houston
CluelessGuy
Member
Member # 28491
Default  Posted: 7:25 PM, July 25th (Thursday)

CarMax is a rip-off IMHO. Yes, you get the no-haggle deal. But you are overpaying. And they will low-ball your trade-in if you have one.

Yes, playing the car-buying game is a real chore. Figure it this way. If you end up spending 20 hours haggling for your car, but you save yourself, say, $1,000 on the car you wanted ... you are making $50 an hour.


BH - early 40s
XWW - early 40s
Two kids

D-Day - Easter 2010
D-Day 2 - July 18, 2010

Divorced - Nov. 26, 2012


Posts: 427 | Registered: May 2010
SuperDuperWonderboy
Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 8:08 PM, July 25th (Thursday)

Come in with your financing already done.

Again this. Negotiate on the price, not the financing terms. And negotiate away stupid things like "doc fees" Different dealers will have different doc fees--these are just an added cost for about 20 bucks worth of forms...but some places charge 4 or 5 hundred for them.

Also, watch for taxes. Different counties have different sales tax rates. Try to buy in a county with a lower rate.

Don't be afraid to walk away.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1296 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
Kajem
Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 4:50 AM, July 26th (Friday)

Walking away has worked for this lady on more than one occasion.

If you an on Financing, get that ahead of visiting a dealer. Used car dealer rates are usury in this state ( easily 4x or more higher than credit union rates).

Know value of what you are looking at. It helps

You are a smart lady. This will be something new to navigate, I have faith that you will get the best deal a available.I almost feel sorry for the sales person.

Hugs,
K


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 5264 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
itainteasy
Member
Member # 31094
Default  Posted: 8:36 AM, July 26th (Friday)

I used Consumer Reports when I bought my car. I knew the make and model, and what to reasonably expect to pay for it. (I got a used car)

The salesman tried hard to "wheel and deal" me, but backed down pretty quickly when he realized I did my research.

I ended up with a deal I was happy with ($1500 less than what they were asking).

I made it clear to the salesman that I wanted the car, but I didn't HAVE to have it. When he knew I would walk away, he was more willing to negotiate.

Good luck. I had major anxiety when I went. It was my first major purchase on my own, too.
I didn't show my anxiety, though....I showed nothing that would have made me look "weak" to him.


Posts: 3419 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: NWPA
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 8:44 AM, July 26th (Friday)

And negotiate away stupid things like "doc fees" Different dealers will have different doc fees--these are just an added cost for about 20 bucks worth of forms...but some places charge 4 or 5 hundred for them.
Crap, that's some expensive forms they use. Is the paper gold edged?


I have faith that you will get the best deal a available. I almost feel sorry for the sales person.
I never pay full price for anything. Even at Goodwill. Sure as heck ain't gonna happen on a car.

Been doing research on several models for the past 24 hours. Everything is written down. Asking price, KBB price, Carfax "adjusted" price, etc. I have a comfortable feel for what I'm getting into.

I made it clear to the salesman that I wanted the car, but I didn't HAVE to have it. When he knew I would walk away, he was more willing to negotiate.
See, I need a car pretty bad BUT, I will walk away. There are 3 dealers in town that have what I want, two have other options altogether that I'm curious about.

*sigh* Off to fortify myself with a massive mug of coffee. Anxiety is kicking in. Time to play the game.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne


Posts: 6300 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
itainteasy
Member
Member # 31094
Default  Posted: 8:52 AM, July 26th (Friday)

*sending mojo* Good luck!

Posts: 3419 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: NWPA
Undefinabl3
Member
Member # 36883
Default  Posted: 10:06 AM, July 26th (Friday)

1. Get financing outside of the dealership if at all possible.

The first car I got I walked in with a check for 5000 (they didnt know this yet), found a car I liked that was almost 8000. I liked the car and built up a nice repore....once we sat down I told him, ok, here's the deal. I have a 5000 cashier's check that I will hand over to you if you make everything fit into that 5000 and not a penny more.

The standard back and forth happened, as it will, but I didnt care. I was either walking out with a car or a check.

They finally came around, and poof, got my Toyota Corolla for 5000. Not bad.

2. Second car we didnt get pre-financed before going to dealership. But same applies, put a number in your head and stick to it.

I told DH we couldnt pay more then 150 a month. Not a penny more.

We fell in love with this truck, told the guy that we didnt care how he did it, but we were not paying more then 150 a month for the truck. 3 hours later, he came back with something like 230 and thought he had pushed us over. We walked out.

Next day the guy calls DH and says that he got it to 149.01 LOL...we got the truck.

You have to be firm. They would rather get that car sold for cheap then not sold at all.


Me: 31 MH
Him: 37 MH
New online find 6/19/14 - shit

Posts: 1767 | Registered: Sep 2012
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 10:44 AM, July 26th (Friday)

I have gotten 3 vehicles from Carmaxx and have always felt treated fairly and respected. Also they offer an extended warranty, and it's well worth the money.

I had an astro van from them that the transmission went out on, because of the extended warranty they payed 100% of the cost to replace it, not once but twice. We drove it long distances frequently and it had a ton of miles.
The Hoe we have now came from them too, and it the warranty covered costs for some minor stuff, like auto window motors.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8707 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
jennie160
Member
Member # 29949
Default  Posted: 10:50 AM, July 26th (Friday)

I you don't get financing set up before going to the dealer DON'T tell them how much per month you can pay. Negotiate the full "out the door" asking price first, then work on negotiating the monthly financing. Otherwise, they will give you crappy terms just to get the highest amount of profit they can. If you have a smart phone you might want to consider downloading an amortization calculator so you can double check what they are quoting and get documentation from them how they are arriving at their numbers.

When I bought my car I negotiated the asking price first then worked on the monthly payment. When I started double checking their numbers with my amortization calculator I caught them adding extra "fees" back into our agreed upon price.


Posts: 921 | Registered: Oct 2010
Williesmom
Member
Member # 22870
Default  Posted: 10:51 AM, July 26th (Friday)

Don't fall for the monthly payment negotiating - "how much can you afford per month to spend?".

Pick the "out the door" total price that is your absolute top price. And stick to it.


You can stuff your sorries in a sack, mister. -George Costanza
There is a special place in hell for women who don't help other women. - Madeleine Albright

Posts: 7765 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Western PA
seekingright2013
Member
Member # 37991
Default  Posted: 11:48 AM, July 26th (Friday)

I echo everybody on doing your research (Edmunds, Kelly Blue Book and Consumer Reports -- CR has a best used buy issue, I think it is in the spring, your local library should be able to help.)

I have a slightly different story than dealing with dealers or CarMax.

I knew the car I wanted -- a Prius -- and did a ton of shopping on ebay and through local dealers' websites as well as the local autotrader mag.

I looked & looked & looked -- for several months. I had a 97 Ford Taurus that was starting to die but I had some time to play with.

One Sunday, I saw an ad for an '05 Prius (this was in '09) that was listed for about $2k *less* than the KBB value. The ad was in the local Sunday paper. Yes, the news*paper*. How 20th century.

Turned out it was an eye doctor selling it because his brand new Tesla had just come in.

I drove it that Sunday and told him I wanted it, and did the credit union financing the next day.

It has been the best car I have ever owned :)

Depending on what car you want, you can try buying from the original owner. Check out autotrader (they have an online site), ebay motors etc., the local paper.

Just a thought. Good luck !! It is very stressful buying a car.

[This message edited by seekingright2013 at 11:49 AM, July 26th (Friday)]


BSO, 53
exWSO, who cares
DD: 11/18/12
DD2: 11/21/12
Kicked him to the curb 11/21/12
“I tramp a perpetual journey.”
― Walt Whitman, Song of Myself

Posts: 118 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Red State SE US
lieshurt
Member
Member # 14003
Default  Posted: 11:54 AM, July 26th (Friday)

Don't fall for the monthly payment negotiating - "how much can you afford per month to spend?".

This drives me insane if they do this. Honestly, I don't think they know how to sell a car anymore without focusing on the monthly payment.


Walk away from anything or anyone who takes away your joy. Life is too short to put up with fools.

Posts: 13807 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Houston
EvenKeel
Member
Member # 24210
Default  Posted: 11:54 AM, July 26th (Friday)

Not all places are the same....we have a 'no-haggle' used car place here. The prices are always well below blue book and there is no negiotation on anything (not even a floor mate).

The place literally has lines waiting for the salesman whose job only seems to be handing you keys and processing paperwork.

It is so great not to go through all that used-car salesman BS.

I don't know if I agree with 'do ahead' financing. I have ALWAYS gotten better rates via the dealer center. I work at a bank and even with my employee rate....I get better rates through the dealership. One time the bank ended up being WHERE I WORKED and the rate was better going through the car dealership.

I just bought a car last month (say hello to Gretta-the-Jetta).....I looked around at rates before I walked in so I knew what was being offered. Again....dealership beat it by 1.5%

Maybe that is a geographic thing.

I use to take any ole man with me. They were not to say a peep....just sit there and look testestrone-filled. Just because I did not want to be screwed over. If you have a male friend, that might be an option.

I have gotten past that over the years though. If they apply to much pressure, I walk.

I usually walk once they do their "best deal" as well. If they can do better...you WILL get a call. If not, you know that was really their best offer.

[This message edited by EvenKeel at 11:55 AM, July 26th (Friday)]


Eyes are useless if the mind is blind.


Posts: 2177 | Registered: May 2009 | From: Pa
JanetS
Member
Member # 2766
Default  Posted: 2:01 PM, July 26th (Friday)

WALK AWAY is my mantra too.

My H, decades ago, was helping his younger sister haggle on a car price. It was down to a price that sister was willing to say Yes. Husband thought she was over-paying, so he walked out the door with her. She was SO mad at him....she really wanted the car. Well, that evg. a phone call came in.....they got the car at the price H had offered.

Then H and I were going to buy a car. Each time we got an offer we went to the pay phone (pre cell phone days) to get a quote from another dealer (this was a new car). We decided which dealer to go with. So we said "you've offered us this car at X dollars. (we had asked for a quote including ALL taxes and ALL additional fees).

When the contract came back they added $30 for "administration fee" (paperwork). We had been VERY clear. We walked out the door with the salesperson literally following us across the parking lot. We did not trust them now...went to the other dealer (whose price was marginally more....but when they wrote up our contract it was EXACTLY as quoted).

It's all a game!

My suggestion....once you figure out what YOU think is fair....including ALL taxes and any other additional things that they might try to add on. Tell them up front that you can't go even $1 more. See if they'll work with you. You have 3 cars you like....so if one doesn't work, you have 2 more to work with.

Good luck.


Posts: 2589 | Registered: Nov 2003 | From: Niagara-on-the-Lake, Canada
DeadMumWalking
Member
Member # 25341
Default  Posted: 3:16 PM, July 26th (Friday)

I know a woman who bought a used car (alone, no token man with her for window-dressing!) with the following method: decided which car she wanted, did all the research, etc, and got a cashier's check for the amount she was willing to pay (which was substantially below the asking price).

When the salesman (yes, it was a man) started his patter with her, she pulled out the check and said 'do you want this, or should I take it to another dealership?' He took it!!


Me (BS), Him (WH): early 50's
3 DS: teens!!! :)
M: 25 (19 1/2 at Dday), Together 30
Dday: Dec 2008
Limbo-ish, again (after multiple S) -- weighing my options

Posts: 2606 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: EU
peridot
Member
Member # 18334
Default  Posted: 7:28 PM, July 26th (Friday)

Be careful with CarFax. I bought a used car, left and went home to look it up on CarFax. It came back clean.

I buy the car, a few days later I'm digging in the glove box(didn't when I bought the car) and I find all the paperwork on the car, everything that had ever been worked on. The car had been in a wreck.

Even when the report comes back clean, you can't ever trust it.

I always walk out after looking at the car, used or new. They always call that evening with a better deal.

Never hand over your keys to them. No matter what they say.

Don't do a trade in. Sell it yourself. You'll get more.

[This message edited by peridot at 7:29 PM, July 26th (Friday)]


I think...therefore, I'm single.

It is what it is.


Posts: 4788 | Registered: Feb 2008
JanetS
Member
Member # 2766
Default  Posted: 10:35 PM, July 26th (Friday)

Oh yes, I was advised to shop near to the end of month. Everybody wants to be employee of the month and will make better deals to beef up their sales.

Posts: 2589 | Registered: Nov 2003 | From: Niagara-on-the-Lake, Canada
peridot
Member
Member # 18334
Default  Posted: 2:21 AM, July 27th (Saturday)

I've also heard there is certain months, times of the year that you should shop but I can't remember what they are lol. Maybe someone else does.


I think...therefore, I'm single.

It is what it is.


Posts: 4788 | Registered: Feb 2008
Kajem
Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 4:18 AM, July 28th (Sunday)

Update on car shopping?


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 5264 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
circe
Member
Member # 6687
Default  Posted: 11:15 AM, July 28th (Sunday)

Yes, what's your update??

DH is horrible at car shopping, so I do all the research and most of the shopping and nowadays I do the buying as well. I used to bring him in so I wouldn't be a woman shopping alone, but I don't really think it helped.

I love Endmonds and "true market value" and also they have that calculator that tells you the average out the door sales price for the car you're looking for *in your zipcode* - which is key.

The last car we bought was for me. I found the type I wanted, two different years that would be acceptable, knew I wanted a Certified car, knew which options I didn't care at all about (like a sunroof - all our cars have them, rarely use them) and had the top price I was willing to pay for EVERYTHING including tax, title, whatever, whatever. The average price paid in my zipcode was my upper limit. I also had the lowest price I could hope for as my dream price.

Oh and we had prequalified for the 1.9% Toyota financing before we walked in. They definitely tried to dick me around on that after the sale, but luckily I'd gotten everything in writing and so they honored it.

In the end I found 2 cars on the lot that met all my criteria, test drove them both, haggled for the lower priced option and at some point during the haggling the salesman told me the lower priced car had been "sold to someone else". He said if I'd only taken the price he offered, the car would have been mine. Of course I didn't care about that particular car, I had 8 completely acceptable cars on my list, 2 of those cars at his dealership and $X in my budget so let's move on to the remaining car with my exact same offer. If he couldn't come down on the other car, I'll move on to the next dealership. Why would I care who sold me my car? I'm just looking for my fair price.

In the end, I got the more expensive car they had for my dream price. The cheaper car had suddenly reappeared as not sold after all - surprise - and they tried to get me to take it instead. Seriously, some dealerships are just so exhaustingly shifty. As I said, even as I was signing the paperwork for the car, they were trying to renegotiate the financing and starting the entire "now what do you want to pay per month?" all over again, even after all my financing paperwork had been preapproved. It's so exhausting. I think that's what they count on.

But as someone said, at the end of the day just consider you're making $1000 or $1500 or whatever it is for the time you're putting in. Be prepared to walk, have a lot of options, don't let them wear you down. :)


Posts: 3193 | Registered: Mar 2005
JanetS
Member
Member # 2766
Default  Posted: 11:22 AM, July 28th (Sunday)

pretty awful that they said the car you wanted was "sold"....trying to pressure you to quickly commit to the next car.

When Hyundai first came to Canada (around 1984) we bought a new one...factory ordered, so delivery was about 6 weeks. We did a lot of haggling on that one too. I think?? they had another buyer for it, because when we went to pick it up it had black overspray from a nearby paint bay on this white car. Significant!!!! Of course we didn't take it that day. We went back a few days later, they'd removed some, but left some still there. As I say, I'm pretty sure they had a buyer for it already who would pay more.

The funny thing is that between the time we bought it, and the pick up time, we had accepted a job in Bermuda. Could not take the car with us..pricey, plus they drive on the "wrong" (left) side of the road, so the steering wheel was in the wrong place.

Turned out to be a blessing for us. We'd have had to sell it at a loss. Now we got our deposit back, and the dealer thought he won.

It was a win/win. But it shows that you can't always trust these guys.

[This message edited by JanetS at 11:23 AM, July 28th (Sunday)]


Posts: 2589 | Registered: Nov 2003 | From: Niagara-on-the-Lake, Canada
newnormal
Member
Member # 21925
Default  Posted: 9:42 PM, July 28th (Sunday)

Avoid carmax! They sold me an suv with bad breaks. I took it in 3 times within the first 30 days and kept telling them something is wrong, but they couldn't find anything. After the initial time period had passed, they said just have it fixed at your repair shop and we will reimburse you. I got the "check is in the mail" line until I finally gave up. Come to find out later, they just did a cheap black spray paint job on the luggage rack to hide the hideous scrapes.

Carmax is a dangerous place to buy a vehicle.


BS 43 (me)
FWH 48
D-day 9/07

Dont retreat, reload.
"Pull that knife out of your back - and sever the fuel line to that bus you got thrown under" Bufffalo


Posts: 1033 | Registered: Dec 2008
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 8:40 AM, July 29th (Monday)

Update on car shopping?
I got one.

Thank you everyone for your advice and stories. It really, really helped. I went into the dealership armed and ready. QS actually ended up coming with me. Miracle.

However, to throw a stick in the spokes...when I got into the car I really wanted, it fell flat. It was nice, but it just wasn't all that.

The dealer led me to something I'd never considered cause QS said he didn't want that make. I promptly fell in love. The test drive clinched it for me. But I didn't show any outside emotion other then, "Hmm, ok. Interesting."

QS said, "You get whatever you want. I'm going to stand back and watch." QS and I walked around, did the research on the new car, checked the values, etc. etc. Then started the process.

I got what I wanted at the price I wanted.

2007 Nissan Maxima SL. Black on black. OMG, this thing is loaded. It's sporty, it's sleek, it's fast... Every bell and whistle you can imagine. (Even heated steering wheel which is awesome! My hands freeze in the winter.) Brand new tires and brakes. Tinted windows, presets for 2 drivers, sunroof...oh it's just awesome.

It's not what I was originally looking for, but everything I imagined I'd ever want. It's an awesome fit for our family.

We're super happy and I feel incredibly proud of myself. It wasn't as scary as I thought it would be. Knowledge is power people. Know what you're getting into before you're in it. Thanks for helping me thru this process.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne


Posts: 6300 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
MovingUpward
Guide
Member # 14866
Default  Posted: 8:42 AM, July 29th (Monday)

Glad that you were successful.


AKA Moo

Think of the haters in your life as sandpaper; they’ll scratch you up time and time again but in the end you’re polished, smooth, and spotless..while they end up useless

We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give.


Posts: 52599 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Big Blue Nation
DeadMumWalking
Member
Member # 25341
Default  Posted: 10:23 AM, July 29th (Monday)

WTG!!!


Me (BS), Him (WH): early 50's
3 DS: teens!!! :)
M: 25 (19 1/2 at Dday), Together 30
Dday: Dec 2008
Limbo-ish, again (after multiple S) -- weighing my options

Posts: 2606 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: EU
itainteasy
Member
Member # 31094
Default  Posted: 11:15 AM, July 29th (Monday)

Awesome job, Aubrie!!!

Posts: 3419 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: NWPA
gahurts
Member
Member # 33699
Default  Posted: 3:10 PM, July 29th (Monday)

Good luck with teh new car. Congrats


"Strength does not come from physical capacity. It comes from an indominable will" - Mahatma Gandi

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - Aubrie


Posts: 3432 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Georgia
Topic Posts: 34