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Reconciliation
User Topic: Can you tell WS they are in Fog?
lostsoul214
New Member
Member # 40136
Default  Posted: 5:47 PM, August 1st (Thursday)

The topic is pretty much the question. Is it a bad idea to do this. For instance take down a bunch of sites that describe what exactly the fog is and just forward to them. I'm pretty sure for men most would probably not care. The way women think, would it at least cross their mind. That this is exactly what is happening to them.

Posts: 21 | Registered: Jul 2013
Knowing
Member
Member # 37044
Default  Posted: 5:51 PM, August 1st (Thursday)

On DDay, fWH was still a bit in the fog. I could sense it and didn''t hold back on saying plenty of crude things about his A. Reality is what brings them out of the fog, and a willingness on their part to consider some truth other than the lies they''ve been telling themselves.

I like your idea of forwarding some info to your WS. There''s nothing wrong with trying.


Me: BW, Him: fWH
Together 12 years
My EA (?) 2005-2011
His STA/PA: D-day: 19/09/12
TT: 08/12/12

We are in R.


Posts: 697 | Registered: Oct 2012
lostsoul214
New Member
Member # 40136
Default  Posted: 5:55 PM, August 1st (Thursday)

Thank you I would like to hear other opinions on the matter first.

Posts: 21 | Registered: Jul 2013
womaninflux
Member
Member # 39667
Default  Posted: 6:05 PM, August 1st (Thursday)

If they are in a fog, they will likely still be in denial of any wrongdoing and they will also be so consumed by the pain they are experiencing (of the loss of their secret life, etc.). My rec is to back off and allow them to come to the conclusion on their own.

Get "How to Help Your Spouse Recover from Your Affair" and ask them to read it. They may absorb some of that.


BS - mid-40's
SAWH - mid 40's
Kids - 2 elementary school aged
Getting tons of therapy and trying to "work it out"

Posts: 864 | Registered: Jun 2013
dovetool
Member
Member # 37072
Default  Posted: 6:29 PM, August 1st (Thursday)

I believe that telling them about the fog doesnt really help. Yes I agree that a dose of reality does. In the fog they think that the reason they cant be with the other person is because of their spouse... or they would be happy ever after. So if your telling it to him, I wouldnt expect him to listen or even care. For my husband it wasnt me telling him about a fog or what he was doing that defogged him. It was losing everything and getting the reality of seperations, seperation from the kids and missing the routine that ultimately made him realize what he had done and what he had sacrificed.


Me BS: 29
Him WH: 35
OW: 40 was a "friend". Our sons were best friends.
Married 11 years
D-day: 12/05/12
D-day: of who it really was 08/2012
R: started in 03/2012
True recover September... rough at first for me since I wasnt sure about

Posts: 68 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: dovetool
Wonderingwhy11
Member
Member # 34782
Default  Posted: 9:56 PM, August 1st (Thursday)

No you can't tell them because they are in the "fog" and won't listen to what you say. I BTDT. The best advice I have is to do 180 and figure out what you want and then tell him. When I realized WH was still in the fog (I later found it they were still in contact) I told him he needed to leave again. I finally started seeing signs of the fog lifting after he finally decided he needed to end all contact with OW. IMHO as long as there was contact with AP there is probably going to be fog behavior.


Me BW - 46
Him WH - 53
Together 23 yrs, Married 18
DDay August 2011
2 kids - 13 and 15

Gotta love the life that we livin'


Posts: 376 | Registered: Feb 2012
BaxtersBFF
Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 10:01 PM, August 1st (Thursday)

a willingness on their part to consider some truth other than the lies they've been telling themselves

From experience, and in retrospect, this is the one thing that really makes the difference. Everything else that folks are posting can help get the WS to the point where they might be ready to accept the notion that they are in the fog. But even then, it's a crap shoot when it comes to the WS...


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6097 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
StillGoing
Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 7:53 AM, August 2nd (Friday)

Sure, but even if you turn on all the lights in a room some people will still cover their eyes and sing LALALALA.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7416 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Kelany
Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 8:03 AM, August 2nd (Friday)

Sure, you can tell them, but the reality is, they are in such denial it won't mean anything to them.

I've found that at least for my situation, the best way to break that fog is to expose everything. Bring it all out into the light and make the reality of the situation appear as it is. Affairs don't do well in light.

I told our families (including his parents). I confronted the AP via phone and text. I went to his work and let his AP know who I was. When he lost his job, the reality was his life was very effed up. Not all sunshine and butterflies. Telling the AP's husband.

I doused it in cold water. I told him, go, be with her and her four kids, just know you will be paying me child support for our five kids, how will you support yourself?

I had a call in to the attorney's I used to work for that I knew VERY well. I had a call in to the private attorney I used to work for too so I could gather information. I told him that our state was an at-fault state, and that since we'd been married over 10 years, he would be responsible for alimony as well.

Reality woke him from the fog.


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
Mack9512
Member
Member # 38619
Default  Posted: 8:12 AM, August 2nd (Friday)

LS214

That is exactly what I did. I printed out articles from SI and other sites and gave them to my fWH. At first I didn't think he would even read them but eventually he started asking questions. I "think" my providing the information to him started a gradual clearing of the fog. It didn't stop his behavior or the A though.
However, when I kicked him out, say a L, threw his crap in the garage, removed all of his pictures from the house, and told him I was done did the fog go "poof".


"If you're brave enough to say goodbye, life will reward you with a new hello." - Paulo Coehlo

Posts: 385 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: East Coast
lostsoul214
New Member
Member # 40136
Default  Posted: 9:46 AM, August 2nd (Friday)

I really want to do this. I just think it might push her away more from me. She is in a bad place because everyone knows now what she did. Her family is really religious. I have spoken to her once in the last 35 days. She told me that she now hates the fact that her family still likes me more than her. She is upset because she can't talk to my family who she loves. I want to send her 2 articles that I found. Like I said i just don't want to make things worse.

Posts: 21 | Registered: Jul 2013
Mack9512
Member
Member # 38619
Default  Posted: 11:10 AM, August 2nd (Friday)

LS214,

If you and your WW are not in NC, why don't you just ask her if she would be willing to read the articles? That way you can feel better about giving them to her and the onerous is on her to actually read them, but don't give them to her expecting her to magically come out of the land of butterfly farting, glitter pooping unicorns. You will only be disappointed.

Mack


"If you're brave enough to say goodbye, life will reward you with a new hello." - Paulo Coehlo

Posts: 385 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: East Coast
Josephine01
Member
Member # 38511
Default  Posted: 11:37 AM, August 2nd (Friday)

I read your posts and really hope you and your w find happiness with each other again if that is what you both want.

I say this with respect only. . . It seems that your problem does not totally stem from the A. I do not mean that they are your fault. I don't think they are. Her A was a coping aspect on her side but it was WRONG and you did not cause it. She did.

With this said it can't hurt to send her these articles, but after you do don't call her up ask her what she thinks just let them resonate with her for a while. Do the unexpected. Many times when a WS sees that the BS does something different it makes them curious. It causes them to contact the BS. I read this in a book, I am not that knowing. LOL

Even if she reads the articles and sees some validity to them it may not change her mind right away so please, for your sake, don't expect that. What it MIGHT possibly do is ignite a open communication between the two of you.

I hope you get what you want, but I want to give you some friendly advise stop blaming yourself for her affair you were in pain too. You both could have handled your pain differently, but her A is her doing not yours.


Me, 42 BS
H, 61 WH
2 boys 19 and 15 years old
Married 24 years

Posts: 314 | Registered: Feb 2013
lostsoul214
New Member
Member # 40136
Default  Posted: 7:54 PM, August 3rd (Saturday)

Thank you for the replies I would really appreciate any more incite on this matter. We never had a chance to try and work this out.

Posts: 21 | Registered: Jul 2013
Althea
Member
Member # 37765
Default  Posted: 9:47 AM, August 4th (Sunday)

As the others have said, you can print and send these articles, but if she is truly in the fog, don't have any expectation that she will follow through or even read them. I handed my WH Not Just Friends and it took him 2 months to even start it. Expending a lot of energy trying to show your WS how she is still in the fog is basically like banging your head against a brick wall. What you see as sad, pathetic, dishonest, selfish, whatever, she is likely seeing as risky, fulfilling, having her needs met, etc. Until the WS gets to the point where he or she can see the reality of his or her actions, lifting the fog is impossible IMO.


Taking it one day at a time.

Posts: 452 | Registered: Dec 2012
EtTuBrute
New Member
Member # 39792
Default  Posted: 7:04 PM, August 4th (Sunday)

I had my husband read an article about affair fog, because underneath all the emotional crap, he's a logical person.

I thought that if he read it and slept on it, it would at least be in his mind. A lot of what the article said, followed exactly what he was doing and thinking. He had to at least compare his situation to what he was reading and knowing that all WS think and do these things when in affair fog. The info will at least be in her mind. She may not realize how irrational the affair has been until NC has been implemented for a long time and has gone through the withdrawal period though.

Make sure she reads an actual article, because she won't believe what you are saying. She'll think your words are just desperation on your part - that you'll say anything to get her to stay and work on the relationship with you.


BW 41 WH 47 LTA/LD: EA 9 yrs / PA 14 days; 4 Kids: 7,5,2,2 OW: XGF 45 DDAY: 10-8-12 Broke NC 4 times, no known OW response.Began R 7/19/13
If you can't spot the sucker in the first half hour at the table, then you ARE the sucker. - Rounders

Posts: 32 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: United States
heforgotme
Member
Member # 38391
Default  Posted: 7:16 PM, August 4th (Sunday)

I don't think so. Since they typically aren't thinking rationally, I don't know that applying a rational solution would work.

I was "lucky" in that fWH came out of the fog pretty quickly. I asked him once why he thought that happened and he said that witnessing my pain was probably what made the most difference. It helped him realize exactly how bad all of this was and what he stood to lose. So, if there is any reading material that might help, maybe it would be the stuff that talks about what the BS goes through??


D-Day 11/15/12
5 month PA
Married 20 years, 3 kids
All good is hard. All evil is easy. Dying, losing, cheating, and mediocrity is easy. Stay away from easy.
- Scott Alexander
It was the day I thought I'd never get through - Daughtry

Posts: 1076 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: FL
Ashland13
Member
Member # 38378
Default  Posted: 7:38 PM, August 4th (Sunday)

Telling about the fog doesn't do any good, if a person is in the midst of it. That's the idea, is that they are almost in another type of reality, of their own making.

It doesn't match our reality and the few instances I know of where a BS told the WS of the fog theories, it backfired. For me, it backfired 150% and...simply made him irate. Also, if you tell of the fog theories to a WS who is still in one, he or she may-this happened to me-consider you the enemy, because you would be trying to pop the bubble they often build for themselves.

I desperately wanted him back and tried this and it failed. It pushed him away and he even complained to people about me -more.

One thing that I found almost impossible to contemplate is that I had become the enemy for him and I represented reality, that he was trying so hard to escape from.

I am finally doing all the suggestions that I can now, even though it makes me ache inside and our marriage is ending.

What I've found on this awful journey is that the most silent treatment a BS can give, it is truly the best thing to do. It's one of the most hardest things to do in our anguish sometimes, because I found I was more drawn to him and he was more pushed away, like some twisted dance or cat and mouse game.

If you can be silent, perhaps it would give your WS a chance to think about you or wonder what you are up to and why you stopped communicating.

I've done this recently, as I said, even though it emotionally wrecks me, it is getting little responses. Recently, I got this: "is your phone broken?"


Ashland 13

A person is a person, no matter how small. -Dr. Suess

Perserverance and spirit have done wonders in all ages.

-George Washington


Posts: 2187 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: New England
myperfectlife
Member
Member # 39801
Default  Posted: 7:54 PM, August 4th (Sunday)

I agree with the majority.
There are about 15-20 specific sentences that I said while he was in the fog about certain things he might want to consider when thinking about this affair. They bounced off him like he had an invisible shield.
I said the exact same 15-20 sentences AFTER he was out of the fog and he actually "got it" and the thoughts affected him deeply.
Such simple things like 'do you understand we won't be able to spend Christmas with our children?"
In the fog, they don't care. Nothing is as important as the affair and the affair partner.
They may act like they are thinking about it, they are not.
I honestly don't believe there are any words that ANYONE can say to get them out of the fog. Trust me, I talked logically, emotionally, pursuasively - but totally in circles. Even if he seemed like he was listening and really trying to understand, it was like his brain could not comprehend it at all.
I believe the only thing that gets them out of the fog is living through real consequences. Not talk. And those consequences are different for everyone.
I even said once to my WS "Everything you are saying about OW is TEXTBOOK AFFAIR TALK. You're not special! This affair isn't special! Every cheater says and does the exact same thing!"
No real response on that from him. They all want to believe that their affair is "different", better, special.
Sad.


I cannot be responsible for another's personal growth.
DDay#1 of a "cheatillion" 4/1/13
Divorce final 11/04/13

Posts: 452 | Registered: Jul 2013
lostsoul214
New Member
Member # 40136
Default  Posted: 1:01 AM, August 5th (Monday)

Al13 & mpl

This is all coming from the men in your life. Do you think being that the WS being woman be any different?


Posts: 21 | Registered: Jul 2013
m334455
Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 1:29 AM, August 5th (Monday)

Ever watch those Charlie Brown movies where the adults talk and all the kids hear is "wah wha wha wah...?"

It's sort of like that.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
karmahappens
Member
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 1:57 AM, August 5th (Monday)

I am sure someone may get it.

I saw the lightbulb turn on when my husband realized the OW had told him a lie about me.

It was one of his ah ha moments.

I couldn't force him there.


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaïs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3792 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
m334455
Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 2:06 AM, August 5th (Monday)

I'm going to agree with being able to point out lies. I'd thought OW was a friend so once I finally put 2 and 2 together I was able to show WH a least a dozen different lies she'd told him -- and I was also able to show her quite a few lies WH had told her as well. Kind of broke up the fantasy "we're so special" club real fast.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
noescape
Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 10:18 AM, August 5th (Monday)

No, and it can be dangerous.

It's got nothing to do with gender. If someone 'chooses' to be in the fog, that's where they'll stay.

Why it's dangerous is because I gave her my entire perspective and the advice I was getting which she used to further manipulate the situation. It almost always backfires when a WS is remorseless. They can get to understand what advice the BS is getting and adjust their play book to feign remorse or some form of false R yet choose to not actually internalise the message.

At some level, there is justification for their behaviour just as there was justification for the A. Detaching and 180 are the only viable options for a BS who's got a remorseless spouse about 2-3 weeks out from DDay.

It's never clear cut as most people generally fall in between extreme fog and complete clarity at DDay itself. I'd still say, trying to help a WS 'get it' is a futile attempt, time better spent in healing oneself and not looking at the WS for any help. If they come to you with a 'we can work this' attitude and you can see consistent and sincere attempts at wanting to R, then by all means share the info/forums/articles etc...


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
Shockedman
Member
Member # 39376
Default  Posted: 2:52 PM, August 5th (Monday)

I agree with noescape. My WW took her affair underground for 2 months after d-day 1 before she came out of the fog. Those 2 months, I and everyone she knows pounded her with all sorts of stuff, including the "fog" info. Didn't do one bit of good. They really need to come to the conclusion on their own. I tried so hard to convince my wife that it wasn't "special" and wasn't "real". That she was in the fog. She was broken and still is. No amount of convincing them is going to snap them out of it. Real consequences are what will make it happen. I say work on yourself. It is a much better use of your time. I spent so much of my time in our relationship trying to meet her needs and make sure she was first priority that it was hard for me to stop, even in the aftermath. BUT you really need to stop. Work on yourself. You are the priority now. Start your path to healing.

[This message edited by Shockedman at 2:54 PM, August 5th (Monday)]


Posts: 102 | Registered: May 2013
krazy8516
Member
Member # 40076
Default  Posted: 3:00 PM, August 5th (Monday)

even if you turn on all the lights in a room some people will still cover their eyes and sing LALALALA.

I think this is the most likely reaction from a WS. Even if you could get them to read the info ('If you answered "yes" to any of these questions, you are in a fog!'), they're still not going to see it. I think that's actually part of the fog. It's going to take more than links and articles to get them out of it.

I feel your pain though. ::hugs::


me: BW, 30
him: WH, 25
us: edging closer to R every day

married 2y, together 2.5y
1 beautiful daughter, 23m

"Someday soon, I'm going to put my life together; Win or lose, I'm starting over again."


Posts: 368 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Texas
myperfectlife
Member
Member # 39801
Default  Posted: 1:30 PM, August 11th (Sunday)

I agree, I don't think it has anything to do with gender.
I think that these people have themselves convinced that these hormonal/emotional/endocrine responses are true love and that nothing about it could be false.
It's almost like an addictive substance.
Try telling someone drinking a diet coke that artificial sweetener is addictive. They will look at you like you're crazy, even though evidence says it is.
They are just so hopped up and determined to continue feeling that way-they have rationalized that it's ok to do because it's "once in a lifetime' or "true love" or "no one else has made me feel this way since I fell in love with you so long ago" *(barf)*.
In their minds the main way to make it ok is to justify that it's special and no one else in the history of the world has ever, ever felt this powerful love.
It's sick.


I cannot be responsible for another's personal growth.
DDay#1 of a "cheatillion" 4/1/13
Divorce final 11/04/13

Posts: 452 | Registered: Jul 2013
Topic Posts: 27