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User Topic: Could he have picked a more inappropriate card or am I paranoid.
LearningToFly
Member
Member # 39073
Default  Posted: 10:38 AM, August 2nd (Friday)

We went to marriage counseling and she had a lot of good things to say to both of us. I am confused though because she did tell WH that it was a "sweet gesture" to send the OWs mom a sympathy card at the loss of her husband and a hand written poem about the man . WH didn't tell her that while in the affair, he promised to write a poem about OW's dad when he passed or that the mother was aware of the affair and been a go between. She may have felt a bit different about it after learning these things though she insisted I should not be reading the old emails. She said it was like an alcoholic drinking, the marriage couldn't improve while I did that. Anyway along with a poem continuing on the theme of the love poem he wrote her to say "good-bye" (using analogies from a TV show he use to watch with his OW (highschool girlfriend) he wanted to send a sympathy card. He has NEVER sent a sympathy card in his life by the way. I would think that if he wanted to tell the poor woman that he is sorry she lost her husband he would get a card stating "lost your husband." Instead this is what it said...

Hope is just a a little word, but some times it means everything. Wishing you brighter better days ahead.

If he sent that to her mother along with the promised poem (he says he forgot that he promised her a poem - its in his emails to her) would it cause you to believe he is just making a "sweet gesture" or would you think that he is opening contact and encouraging his OW to wait for him? Am I just way too hurt to see that he was just being nice or is he being a sneaky jerk?

The counselor told him he needed to shred the poem and not send the card.

I know in his mind, he is getting rid of the card and poem (If he really does) because the counselor told him to. It didn't matter that I was hysterically crying the other night when he told me that he wrote the poem and bought the card. To him I was just being unreasonable and coldhearted to a woman who lost her husband. He denied that he was reaching out to OW, that he was simply being respectful to the mother. I told him that I was sure she would tell the OW about it. When OW heard he included a poem, especially one with the same TV show theme, she would have the "HOPE" the card suggested. The counselor said that I dont' know I don't know what the mother would do. I think why take the chance? (AND I also think,,,of course she is going to tell her and my husband knows this just a well as I do).

Why do I feel that I am being painted as an unfeeling monster to a poor woman who lost her husband? Honestly, if it was anyone else, I would be fine with it. In fact, a man who was a huge part of our whole families lives for 8 years (we haven't had contact of 6 or 7 since) died suddenly of a heart attack. He has a wife and grown children. Why didn't my husband get inspired to write a poem for him. He found out about him on Monday and wrote the poem for the girlfriend on Tuesday morning. Why not a poem for a loved man we all knew. (He was the elementary school principal when our kids were in elementary school).


Me - BS (53) Him-WS(58)
Her OW(55) HighSchoolGirlfriend
Together 30 years Married 28 Kids 24,21,18
D day Feb 26 2013 after 20 months
D day March 4 they met again "to say goodbye"
D day April 2 found out about secret email

Posts: 188 | Registered: Apr 2013
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 10:47 AM, August 2nd (Friday)

Um..NC means NO CONTACT..with OW AND her family.

Im so sorry..he doesn't get it.


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,10
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7370 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
kiki1
Member
Member # 37184
Default  Posted: 10:50 AM, August 2nd (Friday)

(((learningtofly))

f*#* that. I would be ticked off by him sending the card.

your not paranoid, it is inappropriate.

has he been nc? sounds like he is attempting it in a round about wayward way.

you said it, the other passing meant nothing to him and this one does.

Red flag as far as I'm concerned.

I'm sorry your experiencing this. From reading your tag line, he's having a tough time coming out of that stupid fog of wayward thinking.

strength to you


Posts: 567 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: new york
jjct
Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 10:52 AM, August 2nd (Friday)

MC is hurting you, not only because she's clueless,
it's because wh is not remorseful:

To him I was just being unreasonable

He forfeited his right and ability to comment on your reasoning abilities when he gave in to his little head, and stuck it where it wasn't 'sposed to be.
Try IC instead -preferably with someone experienced in infidelity - which the present MC is clearly not.

Be strong.
It kills me what people go through putting up with remorseless assclowns.


Posts: 6567 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
cocototo2
New Member
Member # 39776
Default  Posted: 10:55 AM, August 2nd (Friday)

Your MC is wrong. You are not being unreasonable, cold, or anything else. HE should have NC with the OW or her family, period. If he hadn't been having an affair, then this would be a non-issue. Do not let either of them turn it back on you. I would find a new MC. I've had a really bad one like this too - totally snowed by WS.


BW (me) - 40
WH (him) - 42
Children - 1 DS(9), 2 DD (6,2)
OW - married with DD (7)
DD - 7/6/13

Posts: 42 | Registered: Jul 2013
caregiver9000
Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 12:47 PM, August 2nd (Friday)

(((LTF)))

Your MC is wrong. It is not "sweet" to curry favor from anyone even remotely connected to the OW. It is not ok to spend time or energy being creative about soothing the hurt of someone connected to the HURT he caused you while even doing so causes you more hurt!!!!

This is so unbelievably wrong. I am sorry you did not get validation from your MC. I would be concerned that she cannot help you and may cause serious damage by siding with WH in issues like this.

(((more hugs))) be kind to yourself right now.


Me: 44, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 13 DS 10
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5798 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
Nature_Girl
Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 1:12 PM, August 2nd (Friday)

Ditto to everything Caregiver just posted. Your MC is damaging you.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9629 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
TxsT
Member
Member # 39996
Default  Posted: 1:34 PM, August 2nd (Friday)

Please remove yourself from that MC's care....they don't know what the hell they are doing.

Run and run fast!

T


Me: BS 50
Hubby: WH 53
Together: 32 years
Married: 25 years 09/10/2013
2 boys: 23&21
Dday: 09/11/2012
A length: 4+ years (yes years)
status: Ongoing Reconciliation :o)

Through thick and thin we will survive but he gets only one shot at it!


Posts: 605 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: CDN
Holly-Isis
Member
Member # 13447
Default  Posted: 4:33 PM, August 2nd (Friday)

Get a new MC. If you had been raped and the mother of your rapist had facilitated the rape by telling the rapist when you'd be alone...would your MC think what your WH did was sweet then?

My guess is no. That fact that your MC doesn't get it tells me your MC has NO IDEA of the true damage infidelity does, and thus will not be the person best suited to help you recover and R.


"Being in love" first moved them to promise fidelity: this quieter love enables them to keep the promise. *CS Lewis*

Posts: 11181 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: Just a fool in limbo
Blackcloud13
New Member
Member # 40162
Default  Posted: 4:42 PM, August 2nd (Friday)

I agree he should not have sent a card. he should not be involved with OW in anyway. like Confused615 said, they just don't get it. I hope he gets it now...MEN!! Good Luck.

Posts: 2 | Registered: Aug 2013
canteat
Member
Member # 39636
Default  Posted: 4:56 PM, August 2nd (Friday)

WH didn't tell her that while in the affair, he promised to write a poem about OW's dad when he passed or that the mother was aware of the affair and been a go between.

This women was a go between. He needs to have NC with her too! She was not a "friend of the marriage" She was actively involved in trying to destroy it.


To him I was just being unreasonable and coldhearted to a woman who lost her husband.

So no, you just don't have a lot of sympathy for someone who is an enemy of the marriage. And I don't blame you.

I agree with those who said get a new MC. It is amazing how many have NO knowledge of infideltity issues.

am confused though because she did tell WH that it was a "sweet gesture" to send the OWs mom a sympathy card at the loss of her husband and a hand written poem about the man .

Does MC not understand the concept of NC or why it is so important to healing? Instead she focuses on not reading old emails?? True-we shouldn't dwell in the past but some of the info gained from old emails is VITAL to R. GET A NEW MC!!

You are not paranoid!! *hugs*


Me: BW 42
Him: WH 47
Married 9 years-together 18
Dday: 6/17/2013 EA/PA(EA 1yr/PA 6mos-OW out of state)
status: Starting R 7/22/13

Posts: 151 | Registered: Jun 2013
ambivalence26
New Member
Member # 38037
Default  Posted: 4:56 PM, August 2nd (Friday)

Seriously..... I'm so sorry your husband is a d-bag! NO CONTACT PERIOD! Personally.... I think he is trying keep contact with the OW. He should ONLY be thinking about you and your recovery! You are/should be the most important person, not his ex mistress' parents. So sorry you are going through this. Stay strong!

Posts: 21 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: midwest
TxsT
Member
Member # 39996
Default  Posted: 4:59 PM, August 2nd (Friday)

I second that thought.


Me: BS 50
Hubby: WH 53
Together: 32 years
Married: 25 years 09/10/2013
2 boys: 23&21
Dday: 09/11/2012
A length: 4+ years (yes years)
status: Ongoing Reconciliation :o)

Through thick and thin we will survive but he gets only one shot at it!


Posts: 605 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: CDN
solus sto
Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 5:09 PM, August 2nd (Friday)

No contact. No contact. No contact.

Ditch this MC and find one who is experienced with couples attempting to reconcile from infidelity----particularly couples in which one partner is NOT REMORSEFUL.

You need extra support in this situation. And your husband needs a different approach, if your marriage is to be saved.

Her advice is waaaay off the mark, given your husband's continued star-crossed fogginess.


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 52, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8656 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
bellapump
New Member
Member # 30684
Default  Posted: 8:28 PM, August 2nd (Friday)

I am so sorry for your pain.I agree that you need a new MC.You have every right to be hurt by such an inconsiderate act by your WH. He should be worrying about you and your response to his behaviors and be bending over backward to make amends not trying to make you feel like you are not a good person. That woman was an active threat to your marriage and if he truly wants to reconcile then he will cut her out of his life. My WH thought he should keep mutual friends of his OW (or barslime as I like to think of her) on facebook. I explained how that made me feel and that they would still report back to OW or let her see his fb page. I did not want her to know anything about our status.He agreed to delete them. We are doing fine now. It has been 4 yrs and we still have rough patches. Be strong and secure in who you are. Don't let him make you feel bad regardless of how you feel about who and what has or is happening.You have a right to your feelings!

[This message edited by bellapump at 8:36 PM, August 2nd (Friday)]


Posts: 23 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: canada
bellapump
New Member
Member # 30684
Default  Posted: 8:33 PM, August 2nd (Friday)

[This message edited by bellapump at 8:55 PM, August 2nd (Friday)]


Posts: 23 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: canada
LearningToFly
Member
Member # 39073
Default  Posted: 1:18 AM, August 3rd (Saturday)

I do feel unsupported in many ways by the counselors. Maybe its because I have chosen to stay in this marriage even though it appears that my husband is incapable of empathy. I just feel that no matter what, if I stay or if I go, my life is going to be lonely and I will never be loved.

[This message edited by LearningToFly at 11:39 AM, August 3rd (Saturday)]


Me - BS (53) Him-WS(58)
Her OW(55) HighSchoolGirlfriend
Together 30 years Married 28 Kids 24,21,18
D day Feb 26 2013 after 20 months
D day March 4 they met again "to say goodbye"
D day April 2 found out about secret email

Posts: 188 | Registered: Apr 2013
canteat
Member
Member # 39636
Default  Posted: 9:27 AM, August 4th (Sunday)

I know what you mean about the empathy thing. I have seen some from my WH-but I want to see more from him. We start MC next week and I hope that it helps us to express things a little better.

It sounds as if your MC is not the right one for you. Call around and phone interview some others. Ask them what their approach is to helping couples through infideltity. If you don't agree with their approach or don't get a clear answer-keep looking. Apparently, there is no "standard" treament that is taught to counselors for these types of situations. Are you in IC? If not, look into that too. It helps. *hugs*


Me: BW 42
Him: WH 47
Married 9 years-together 18
Dday: 6/17/2013 EA/PA(EA 1yr/PA 6mos-OW out of state)
status: Starting R 7/22/13

Posts: 151 | Registered: Jun 2013
LIGHTCHASER
New Member
Member # 39841
Default  Posted: 9:40 AM, August 4th (Sunday)

You donot need to feel like you have to be nice and civil to the OW and her family. Your H should never contact either her or her family no matter what. I wouldn't want my husband to go to even the funeral of OW or to send a card to her family. To me if something is over, it is over for good.


DD: Mid April 2013
Married for 9 years
Have twins aged 3,5

Posts: 24 | Registered: Jul 2013
jjct
Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 9:41 AM, August 4th (Sunday)

my husband is incapable of empathy.

The #1 diagnostic criterion for Narcissism.
I gotta tell ya.
If that's the case, the sooner you fold up your tent, the better you'll be.
There's no fix for that.
Sorry to be the bearer of such bad tidings, but, there it is.

I just feel that no matter what, if I stay or if I go, my life is going to be lonely and I will never be loved.

The cure for this is to be the lover of your own self.


Posts: 6567 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
MystiKay
Member
Member # 36401
Default  Posted: 9:55 AM, August 4th (Sunday)

I don't know. to be honest. That card sounds like it might be a message to your husbands OW. I know it is to her mother, about her husband's death, but it seems more like a "Wait for me, we might be together someday"kind of card. She will show it to the OW. And you said the mother was a go between.

No Contact with either of them no matter what. Your husband still seems way to invested in these people. And get new counclers. WTF is up with them?


Posts: 282 | Registered: Aug 2012
LearningToFly
Member
Member # 39073
Default  Posted: 11:22 AM, August 4th (Sunday)

To me, it seems to me that my husband is incapable of empathy but I could be wrong. So far, he is doing what he is told but has a hard time going beyond that. The MC told him that he will need to learn about body language, facial expression, and emotions. If it is possible for him to do that, I would rather stay. I am scared that he won't be able to though. He hasn't been officially diagnosed with narcissism but my IC, who has only heard my side of the story, has suggested its possible.

MystiKay, when I read the card I saw the same thing you did. It matched their plan to "work" on their "primary relationships" so that when they got together, they would do so without guilt. When I asked him why he bought that card instead of a card about "sorry you lost your husband" he said there werent' any and this seemed good because it talked about HOPE. At least he isn't going to send it.

I do need to learn to be a lover of myself. I have gotten lost in this marriage and raising kids. The kids are almost grown and their choices are breaking my heart too. I am working on building friendships, hobbies, and getting a job that gives me financial independence.


Me - BS (53) Him-WS(58)
Her OW(55) HighSchoolGirlfriend
Together 30 years Married 28 Kids 24,21,18
D day Feb 26 2013 after 20 months
D day March 4 they met again "to say goodbye"
D day April 2 found out about secret email

Posts: 188 | Registered: Apr 2013
jjct
Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 11:37 AM, August 4th (Sunday)

The MC told him that he will need to learn about body language, facial expression, and emotions.

Learn? As in being taught?
Not looking good here. I mean, who needs to be taught those things?

Which is why it scares the heck outta me you'd say

If it is possible for him to do that, I would rather stay.

Understand - he's just mirroring emotions.
Mimicking them.
Not really feeling them.

Hard to believe you'd be ok with that.
It's corrosive to your soul.
In time, it turns you into a hollow, sucked-out husk.

Don't ask me how I know.


Posts: 6567 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
EasyDoesIt
Member
Member # 29514
Default  Posted: 12:10 PM, August 4th (Sunday)

Well, he certainly wasn't thinking of you or your feelings OR your marriage when he did this.

It's wrong. NC means NO contact. None. Nada. Zip. Zero.

As many of you know, I train dogs (well, actually owners, but that's another matter entirely). When I give the command, "Leave it" I mean, "Don't look at it, don't think of it, don't smell it, don't see it. It isn't there. Nothing about it is there. It's nothing you need to think about." I use this to teach dogs to quit chasing other dogs, cats, getting into things they shouldn't, etc.

"Leave it" means you better put your eyes on me like three seconds ago and not take them off of me. And, when you do that, I praise you and we have a good time, maybe treats, certainly peace and bonding. Glance back and suffer the consequences.

I am by no means an abusive trainer. However, deliberate violation of a command gets an immediate correction and redirection. They quickly learn that it's much better to look at me and enjoy the consequences of that action than it is to continue looking at or thinking of whatever I told them to leave alone. After a while it becomes automatic and there is a harmony that develops between a dog and trainer.

I'm not comparing your husband to a dog. Animal behavior is animal behavior though.


Anything less than full disclosure and total transparency is pure bullshit. WARNING! No emotional pollution allowed.

Posts: 3692 | Registered: Sep 2010 | From: Georgia
Later
Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 12:22 PM, August 4th (Sunday)

Learn? As in being taught?
Not looking good here. I mean, who needs to be taught those things?

Which is why it scares the heck outta me you'd say


If it is possible for him to do that, I would rather stay.

Understand - he's just mirroring emotions.
Mimicking them.
Not really feeling them.

Gotta jump on the bandwagon here. It sounds like the goal is to teach him how to better fake genuine emotions, which will unwittingly make him a better con.


Posts: 385 | Registered: May 2013
LearningToFly
Member
Member # 39073
Default  Posted: 12:24 PM, August 4th (Sunday)

The reason I would rather stay than go is because I am 53 and have been with him for 30 years. I don't know anything else. i have poured my life into our marriage and family. The kids will be leaving in a month and I plan to continue building my own life with greater energy. I started doing this when I found out he was cheating in March. I am still broken and feel beaten down by all that has happened in the past 5/6 years. I know I am stronger than I ever thought possible since I have had to go through it without a loving supportive husband. I am not sure I am strong enough to add a divorce, moving out and finding a full time job to the devastation in my life right now. I need to breathe and figure out where I am at before moving forward. I also still have things to work on in the marriage so if I do leave, I can leave knowing that I did all I could.

I am really scared. REALLY SCARED.

As for EasyDoesIts comment. You can't compare my H to a dog. Dogs are faithful and loyal!


Me - BS (53) Him-WS(58)
Her OW(55) HighSchoolGirlfriend
Together 30 years Married 28 Kids 24,21,18
D day Feb 26 2013 after 20 months
D day March 4 they met again "to say goodbye"
D day April 2 found out about secret email

Posts: 188 | Registered: Apr 2013
jjct
Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, August 4th (Sunday)

Fear is one of the ways our abusers keep us shackled to them.
It's useless to say; "Don't be scared." Because it's very real.
You do have to face it though, or face being ground down to a nub.

I feel ya (((LTF))) I really do.
My suggestion is to quietly go about getting your ducks in a row...all the while gaining more strength.
You can do it!
You are stronger and smarter than you believe - or - have been led to believe.

Quietly. To reduce the drama.
These types don't like it when they start getting hints they're about to lose their supply.

How do I know this stuff? Because in the middle of the shitstorm comes this grinner:

You can't compare my H to a dog. Dogs are faithful and loyal!

Good on ya.
Sending bundles and bundles of strength your way.


Posts: 6567 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Josephine01
Member
Member # 38511
Default  Posted: 12:51 PM, August 4th (Sunday)

Learning to Fly,

I feel the same way I am going to be lonely with or without him. But, I would like to quote Robert Williams when he said, "I used to think the worst thing in life is to end up all alone, it's not, the worse thing is to end up with people who make you feel all alone." I hold on to that when trying to R with my H.

Here's to you, I hope you feel better soon, I'll keep you in my thoughts.


Me, 42 BS
H, 61 WH
2 boys 19 and 15 years old
Married 24 years

Posts: 314 | Registered: Feb 2013
Take2
Member
Member # 23890
Default  Posted: 1:02 PM, August 4th (Sunday)

I am working on building friendships, hobbies, and getting a job that gives me financial independence.

So glad to hear this^^

You can't compare my H to a dog. Dogs are faithful and loyal!

And to see you still have a sense of humor^^

Learningtofly, I was in a similar situation: my life = my family, hadn't worked a real job in 15 years, homeschooled the kids, and now the kids were grown. I was married for 32 years at the time of D.

When I came to the conclusion he wasn't capable of empathy, the kids both looked at me like "duh". They'd concluded that much earlier on.

I just want to encourage you to focus on you, your life - setting yourself up to be independent. Not because I'm predicting anything, just because it is wise for women of our age (I'm 55). It is why we encourage our girls to go to college and get a degree. They may drop out of the workforce to raise a family - but we want them to have that fall back position - employable skills, a degree.

And just so you know. I've been alone for 5 years (D for 1 year). I'm okay. I haven't tried to date - not sure I ever will, not that I don't want companionship - but I'm not sure I will ever be able to trust or sacrifice for a relationship again...

But love comes in many forms - I love what I do, love the kids I work with, love my dds and my dgd. My life is busy, I am learning new things, and even did a bit of traveling...

My life isn't horrible, I'm not even lonely, but for the occasional down day. And if I am honest - I was alone in the M, lonelier in the M, and just plain old stuck - being, and feeling used. And I'm not scared anymore - not sure what I was scared of in the first place. Just the unknown I guess.

Funny thing about the unknown - it is what you make it:


"We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned, so as to have the life that is waiting for us." Joseph Campbell...So, If fear was not a factor - what would you do?

Posts: 4113 | Registered: May 2009 | From: New England
caregiver9000
Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 4:27 PM, August 4th (Sunday)

(((LTF)))

You have a cheering section! It is scary. Change is scary. One of my coping mechanisms is to LEARN (to fly) by gathering information.

Read about this lack of empathy. Observe patterns of behavior. Take note of what triggers his behavior and yours.

Once you have the information, then you can decide what "flying" looks like for you. You can do this. Everything about you projects that you have it in you.


Me: 44, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 13 DS 10
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5798 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
EasyDoesIt
Member
Member # 29514
Happy  Posted: 2:48 PM, August 6th (Tuesday)

You can't compare my H to a dog. Dogs are faithful and loyal!

And to see you still have a sense of humor^^

A sense of humor can get one through many things. Before my divorce was final I joked around that if, by some stroke of extreme luck, the SOB got hit by a truck, I'd have him cremated and use him for kitty litter. I would have done it too, and I don't care how bad that sounds.


Anything less than full disclosure and total transparency is pure bullshit. WARNING! No emotional pollution allowed.

Posts: 3692 | Registered: Sep 2010 | From: Georgia
Topic Posts: 31