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User Topic: details get them or not
heathenchristian
Member
Member # 40060
Default  Posted: 12:04 AM, August 3rd (Saturday)

I really don't want the details. I do have specific questions that I'd like him to answer though.

I'm only 2wks since Dday come Sunday.

Did you get all the details.

I've been reading a book & it discusses the bs getting all the details so they can work through the issues.

I think details of their sessions are going to make it harder to deal with.

If/when we start mc I don't want to discuss that. I want to discuss how we can move forward.

I'm not sweeping it under the rug. I just don't need all the dirt.

The will be very little chance of him seeing ow since he switched he shift @work starting Monday. She can't switch hers. He told her nc. No nothing anymore.

He seems very excited to be able to be home & spending more time w/us.


If you don't want me at my worst, maybe I won't need you at my best.
DDAY 1 - not sure but it was July, Aug or Sept 2010 (supposed bj from hooker)
DDAY 2 - 7-22-2013 she was the made up hooker

Posts: 99 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: IL
Tearsoflove
Member
Member # 8271
Default  Posted: 1:34 AM, August 3rd (Saturday)

People are different. Not everyone needs detail. It's perfectly acceptable for you to only ask for as much detail as you feel you need.


Me: BS
Him: FWS
3 kids

DD#1: 3/18/2003
DD#2: 9/28/2010 with a follow up on 1/28/2011 where he decided to come clean about the EA actually being a PA.

The OW could have been anybody and both turned out to be nobody special.


Posts: 3775 | Registered: Sep 2005
Kelany
Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 2:06 AM, August 3rd (Saturday)

Everyone is different in what they need to know.

For me, I need to ruminate on things, I need to have all the puzzle pieces so that I can come to a point of acceptance.

Plainly put? I needed to know all the details. And I mean all. Positions, grooming habits, discussions, blah blah blah.

It hurt terribly to hear it all, but I had to. I felt like I couldn't move forward in my healing process until I knew what I needed to heal FROM.


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 1993 | Registered: Feb 2012
What2Thnk
Member
Member # 37863
Default  Posted: 2:48 AM, August 3rd (Saturday)

I also wanted all the details. Not everyone does. One thing to beware of though is that your WS may not want to face all of the things he did, so often asking for details this early on leads to more lies, more TT, and a lot of 'I don't remember.' Be prepared for that, and don't put up with it. Get what you need if you can.

Another thing: Establish with your WS that you can ask as much as you want, as often as you want. There shouldn't be a time limit, or a limit to the number of times you can ask. You may have trouble remembering what your WS tells you, you may want to ask multiple times because your instincts are telling you that something is off about his story. Listen to your instincts. Don't drive yourself crazy but don't allow yourself to be bullied, intimidated, lulled or persuaded to drop your need to question what happened until you are ready.

Over time your questions will change, keep asking what you need to. Make sure your WS understands that you will need to ask a LOT of questions, you might need to ask the same questions different ways, and you will be asking questions for a long time.

Don't be ashamed of your need to know, or not to know whatever level of detail you decide you need. Don't be afraid to say you don't want that detail now, and then decide you do want it later. Don't let your WS tell you that because you didn't ask for it at first, it's off the table later. Get what you need, when you need it.

Remind yourself that at a core level you are dealing with a trauma. The ways our brains deal with trauma are complex. We can't rush or direct how we process it, no matter how much we wish we could. Be careful to let yourself have the time and space to do this processing. If you don't, you won't be able to heal.

And something else. Sometimes us BS's want to believe we are seeing an aberration, not insight into our WS's character. I get, really deeply get, the desire to move forward. And everyone's situation is different, but if I hadn't tried to rush it, hadn't tried to just move forward without really dealing with the details, and all the reasons why the first A happened, it's possible that after my first D-day, there wouldn't have been another (and another).

[This message edited by What2Thnk at 2:50 AM, August 3rd (Saturday)]


Me (BS) 42
Him (WS) 43
DD #1 7/19/10 2 year LTA EA/PA w/MOW - HSXGF#1
DD #2 6/6/12 4 mo EA (PA?) w/HSXGF#2
DD #3 12/15/12 3 week EA with random stranger
A whole crapload of gaslighting, minimizing, blameshifting, rugsweeping and TT.

Posts: 183 | Registered: Dec 2012
ifinallyfoundme
Member
Member # 39523
Default  Posted: 3:42 AM, August 3rd (Saturday)

I'd also like to add when the spouse hears themselves telling their spouses of the horrible things they've done, it helps them to see just how awful they were....sometimes. The unknown is a lot more glamorous than the truth.

Posts: 180 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: United States
Scubachick
Member
Member # 39906
Default  Posted: 4:30 AM, August 3rd (Saturday)

I need to know everything and I need to understand it. I wish I didn't.

Posts: 480 | Registered: Jul 2013
ButterflyGirl
Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 7:58 AM, August 3rd (Saturday)

I think it depends on what kind of details..

We had 1 month of false R after D-Day and then separated, so I didn't spend too much time with this, so take it for what it's worth.

I didn't ask too many sexual details. I guess just the basics in the beginning.

I think the details that were more important were about the lying and manipulation. Like what did you say to her when we went on vacations? How did you find time for her? What did you tell me you were doing? How did you guys handle holidays (like her birthday, Christmas, Valentine's, etc.)

I think these details are necessary for you to ask and him to answer. He has to figure out his why's of how he was able to do this to you so he doesn't do it again.. I know you want to move forward, but he's going to have to spend some time realizing and facing what he did..

Hugs..


BW~ 35, Two Darling Sons~ 10 and 6
D-Day 9/2012
S 10/2012
Filed D 11/2012
Divorced! 4/2014

Posts: 1370 | Registered: Feb 2013
betrayedbyluv
New Member
Member # 40165
Default  Posted: 8:26 AM, August 3rd (Saturday)

I NEEDED details, I still don't feel I got the whole story because I get a lot of "I don't know" and "I don't remember". I cannot tell you how sick I am of those 2 phrases.

If you don't feel you need the details then don't ask for them. Everyone is different and you have to do what is best for you!


Me - 42
WH - 38
Married 2/27/2005, together 13 years
DDay - 8/29/12, 1 PA at least 18 months, sexting with at least 3 women that I know about
1 child together, 2 children from my previous marriage

Posts: 30 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: United States
TxsT
Member
Member # 39996
Default  Posted: 8:32 AM, August 3rd (Saturday)

I got every last detail....it was hard but I simply couldn't move on until I knew what I was up against. Please note the my hubby's A was 4 years long with the same OW.

I am a worrier and until I had everything the panic attacks and the bad dreams didn't stop.

T


Me: BS 50
Hubby: WH 53
Together: 32 years
Married: 25 years 09/10/2013
2 boys: 23&21
Dday: 09/11/2012
A length: 4+ years (yes years)
status: Ongoing Reconciliation :o)

Through thick and thin we will survive but he gets only one shot at it!


Posts: 605 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: CDN
TxsT
Member
Member # 39996
Default  Posted: 8:35 AM, August 3rd (Saturday)

Yes details make the mountain taller....if you are not sure you want all of it then take your questions, write them down and ask for answers, proper answers.

Only you can know how much you want to know and how high your mountain can be. But know this....the info will slowly come out and I found it better that I did know before things popped up so I could deal more constructively when they triggered that horrible wall of emotions that come in their wake.

T


Me: BS 50
Hubby: WH 53
Together: 32 years
Married: 25 years 09/10/2013
2 boys: 23&21
Dday: 09/11/2012
A length: 4+ years (yes years)
status: Ongoing Reconciliation :o)

Through thick and thin we will survive but he gets only one shot at it!


Posts: 605 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: CDN
painpaingoaway
Member
Member # 27196
Default  Posted: 8:38 AM, August 3rd (Saturday)

If you don't want the details, that's fine, but I do think you need certain details in order to protect yourself from STD's. For example, unprotected anal sex with an OP that was a swinger, etc..


me BS female 55/him WS 58
Married 33 years
D-day July 09/he gave me his slut's STD
Watch my movie: "My wayward husband's adventures in STD land":
Episode 1: youtu.be/9Jv0-d_CdYc
Episode 2: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tz822H82Gk

Posts: 6763 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Coastal South
fadingmemories
Member
Member # 20531
Default  Posted: 9:12 AM, August 3rd (Saturday)

The details hurt but I needed them. I also needed to see the pain in his face as he had to tell them to me. It was hard for both of us but it was therapeutic. Sending you strength, you are in the worst time....chin up. It does get better....


Me BS
Him FWS
Married 25 Years  Together 31
LTA 12 years
DDay 4/11/08
R 2/14/09
"No matter if you think you can or you can't...either way you are right"
Scars do not form on the dying...
only on the survivors.



Posts: 315 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: North East
keptmypromise
Member
Member # 36178
Default  Posted: 9:26 AM, August 3rd (Saturday)

Beware. Cheaters lie. First ask yourself if you will believe the answers to your questions. I wrote my wife a letter that was 15 pages long, filled with very specific questions dealing with eveything including intimate sexual questions. She never did answer the questions, which to this day (2 years later), I can only accept because by not answering...she was telling me just how nasty and far it went...plus I couldn't believe her to be 100% honest. The TT waywards often lay out is torture. If you ask the questions, be certain you can believe the answers 100%. If not, you set yourself up for even more pain.


Me - BH 54 years
Her - WS 46 years
DD - 6/13/11 (2 total that i know of)
DD - 14
DD - 11
In R...The long and Winding Road

Posts: 252 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Ohio
heathenchristian
Member
Member # 40060
Default  Posted: 11:29 AM, August 3rd (Saturday)

I'm sure I'd get I don't know or don't remember. I also know that he never has problems disclosing any details. I've heard all about past sex encounters with past girlfriends. Which I've never asked to.
He doesn't seem to have a filter on some things.
I have told him this in the past. I never disclosed any details about past relationships.
I think that knowing too much will hurt way too much and it will take longer to heal.
I don't want to rush healing either.
I was on the path to being a better me before D-Day. I had been depressed and sluggish. One day I said no more and starte doing things for me. I've kind of been stopped in my tracks to deal with this now. I want to get back to me. I think the only way I can handle the R is if I work on me and he needs to work on him....BIG TIME. He has too many issues but has said he doesn't want to change some of the things or give up some of them. Nothing to do w/OW.

Since he will be home more often, I will need to discuss this with him and hopefully if he has any desire to save us or have any feelings towards me he will understand. Otherwise I will just need to keep moving forward and he will have to catch up or I will have to leave him behind. I can't live like this anymore. I need to be healthy physically and mentally.

Lots of love and prayers to all of you going through this and thanks for the kind, caring and honest thoughts/advice.


If you don't want me at my worst, maybe I won't need you at my best.
DDAY 1 - not sure but it was July, Aug or Sept 2010 (supposed bj from hooker)
DDAY 2 - 7-22-2013 she was the made up hooker

Posts: 99 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: IL
Gemini71
Member
Member # 40115
Default  Posted: 11:52 AM, August 3rd (Saturday)

I'm only a week out from D-Day an just coming out of denial (that stage when you're waiting to hear 'April Fools' and have it all be a bad joke). As I'm progressing through my recovery, I find that I'm being haunted more and more by questions. I've told my WH that at some point I will need all the details, all of my questions answered, but it will probably be better if that occurs in a MC session, so I can have support dealing with it. He's fine with that since, he isn't ready to give details yet, and I'm not yet ready to hear them. If you don't want detail now, fine. If you get to a point when you need them, fine. If you never need them, fantastic, I wish I could be like that too. Now is the time to be selfish, and do what it right for you. Good Luck.


Two steps forward and one step backwards, is still progress.

Posts: 996 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Illinois, USA
ArableSands
Member
Member # 39830
Default  Posted: 12:59 PM, August 3rd (Saturday)

Get them only if you feel you need them. I needed to understand limits, not specific acts, from my WW.

The physicality doesn't bother me anywhere as much as the shared intimacy. That's what I focused on. Do what works for you, and don't ever think you're being crazy. You're responding to a horrible trauma.


Posts: 224 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Vancouver, Canada
ArableSands
Member
Member # 39830
Default  Posted: 1:01 PM, August 3rd (Saturday)

That's interesting Gemini. I'm into week 5 from DDay and I might be past Denial and Bargaining, probably because I suspected something was going on for weeks but squashed it.

Did Anger for 3 weeks, and still bounce back to it. I'm full on in the pain and Depression phase now. Which as you all well know is indescribably awful.


Posts: 224 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Vancouver, Canada
brainless twit
Member
Member # 12085
Default  Posted: 10:58 PM, August 3rd (Saturday)

The first time around, I wanted all the details. ALL of them. And I'm still convinced that most of what I got wasn't the whole truth.

This time I really don't want to know - I know enough to make me absolutely sick, and I think my heart just can't take it again. I will say that the mind movies are just as bad not knowing as they are knowing. It doesn't help either way - it's still going to be the worst pain of your life.

If you need to know, you deserve to know. Period. But if you just want to move forward, that's your right. Hugs to you!


"Sometimes I guess there just aren't enough rocks." --Forrest Gump

D-Day 8/7/06
Divorced 12/14/09
R Began 5/21/11
D-Day #2 7/9/13 (OW #2 is OW #1's first cousin)
Limbo? I don't even know if that's what this is.


Posts: 1537 | Registered: Sep 2006 | From: Kentucky
Daisy312
Member
Member # 36813
Default  Posted: 11:54 PM, August 3rd (Saturday)

You have to go with how you feel. I needed the details. I have asked every possible thing I could think of. I'm glad I did because my mind movies were much more than it really was. I found it helpful, but you may not. I will warn you though. The more you know the more triggers you might have. I'm almost 11/2 yrs past Dday, and it's getting easier but in the beginning I couldn't walk outside without triggering!

Posts: 182 | Registered: Sep 2012
Odek
New Member
Member # 40142
Default  Posted: 3:55 AM, August 4th (Sunday)

I needed to know all of the details, otherwise I'd obsess and construe it to mean she was hiding things if I didn't. She was reluctant to part with certain bits of information though, and still is - I still don't believe that she kept it all out of our bedroom, and exclusive to the living room.

But I will warn, it's the mental images, and increased sense of being betrayed that keeps me awake at night, or makes me burst into tears at the drop of a hat.


Posts: 15 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Scotland
JustWow
Member
Member # 19636
Default  Posted: 6:51 AM, August 4th (Sunday)

For me, the more FWH lied, trickled, minimuzed and half truthed, the more stuff didn't make sense, the more I asked the liar for more truth(???) to cross examine, to understand, to go crazy.

Also, back then, I also got a little bee in my bonnet that I wanted him to toally betray her like he had me, so I had to have everything.

Had the idea, too, of how can I forgive what I don't know, what you don't ask to be forgiven for? How do e build on a weak foundation? How about after all the trickle-truth we get it all out there so there are no more suprises?

How would I know he exorcised all of the demons if I didn't know the demons were there?

Not to say any or all of those are good or apply to you, but for some of us, we just need (or think we need) to know everything..


BW - Reconciling

edited for typos (I always have to!)


Posts: 3556 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Midwest
heathenchristian
Member
Member # 40060
Default  Posted: 2:09 PM, August 4th (Sunday)

I appreciate all your advice and welcome them.

I don't have mind movies,and if I get specific details I probably would end up w/mind movies. I don't want them.

We had a great day yesterday. He took our child to swimming lessons, I took a bike ride by myself. After that we went for a swim at our clubhouse.

After that we went out on a friends sailboat. It was nice even though I did get a little sea sick. The ride home I started thinking about the betrayal and stuff. He reached ove and grabbed by hand and held it. I couldn't really look at him.

We didn't talk much in bed, just went to sleep. He had to be to work early this morning.

I have written down questions to ask and they are somewhat general, no sexual questions cause I really don't want to know that. It already bothers me to think he gave someone else what he gave me when we got married and vowed to be there sickness/health, better/worse. That's what kills me.

I did snoop a little on his phone and found a msg to a girl who he used to work with that he stays in contact with. It said something about "so you don't want to b friends anymore?" I don't understand why he would care. He says she irritates him that he almost can't be friends with her. She is married, I know her and she has 5 kids of her own and 2 she has legal guardianship over. (a family members children)

It makes me think maybe there was something more.

She is pretty hot lookin, no too pretty in the face but rocking bod. However she abuses the systems and out of the 3yrs she worked at his company she probably only showed up 6mo, otherwise it was all medical/FMLA issues which are a bunch of crap. She doesn't want to work.

The only time we really have alone to talk is in bed at night.

I guess we need to find a sitter and go somewhere to talk things out.

I can't wait anylonger.
I need some basic timeline questions answered.


If you don't want me at my worst, maybe I won't need you at my best.
DDAY 1 - not sure but it was July, Aug or Sept 2010 (supposed bj from hooker)
DDAY 2 - 7-22-2013 she was the made up hooker

Posts: 99 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: IL
womaninflux
Member
Member # 39667
Default  Posted: 2:20 PM, August 4th (Sunday)

I have not been through the full disclosure process yet...I am told it is coming eventually (SAWH is entering his 6th week of therapy). I know some of the details - when it started, how long he was seeing her after I confronted him (both of these were things he danced around full explanation at first). I have done a fair amount of snooping, too, and the more I find out (from looking at his old cell phone, etc.) and the more info I have (texts, glimpses into how he felt about her or at least told her how he felt about her) it just makes me more upset. For me, I'd rather not know all of the details. Timeline is important but I don't want to know anything about sex acts or when the first time they had sex was or anything like that. I just don't see the point.


BS - mid-40's
SAWH - mid 40's
Kids - 2 elementary school aged
Getting tons of therapy and trying to "work it out"

Posts: 809 | Registered: Jun 2013
heforgotme
Member
Member # 38391
Default  Posted: 5:41 PM, August 4th (Sunday)

If/when we start mc I don't want to discuss that. I want to discuss how we can move forward.

I think that's perfectly fine. There are lots of things I asked about that now I wish I didn't know.

However, I'm not so sure you should ignore the big elephant in the room altogether in MC. Maybe discuss it in a broader sense without getting into the gory details??


D-Day 11/15/12
5 month PA
Married 20 years, 3 kids
All good is hard. All evil is easy. Dying, losing, cheating, and mediocrity is easy. Stay away from easy.
- Scott Alexander
It was the day I thought I'd never get through - Daughtry

Posts: 1038 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: FL
heathenchristian
Member
Member # 40060
Wink  Posted: 10:22 PM, August 5th (Monday)

I got basic time line details. No sexual details. Don't need them.
He wasn't placing blame on someone else but did say a guy he worked with @ time was pushing him on her. Well come to find out (he's slow to catch on) this guy was baiting him to see if she would do anything with him because this guy was havin A with her at the time.
He did break it off in the beginning but she supposedly lured him back in. They haven't been sexual since April. Said it has been more like friends & oddly enough (his words) they mostly talked about family & the children.
He still doesn't fully get that I am the victim not him.
We are trying to get through this. It will take time & he seems very forthcoming although I still feel something is not right. I also found out he was flirting with another girl he worked with... she is someone I know. Pisses me off. Her & I were pregnant @ same time & she was @ my baby shower.
Gotta get sleep.
Thanks for the support.


If you don't want me at my worst, maybe I won't need you at my best.
DDAY 1 - not sure but it was July, Aug or Sept 2010 (supposed bj from hooker)
DDAY 2 - 7-22-2013 she was the made up hooker

Posts: 99 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: IL
StillStanding1
Member
Member # 40144
Default  Posted: 3:12 PM, August 6th (Tuesday)

I really appreciate the multiple points of view. For a while, it seemed that everyone argued for full detailed disclosure. I've struggled enough with what I already know. I've asked him to keep the door open to more questions and to answer them honestly, but with compassion in the wording. I am 6 months out and the mind movies are still horrible and play almost every moment of the day. I am not convinced that more detail will help in any way.

I guess the bottom line is ask what you think you really need and want to know. My MC/IC suggests not asking questions whose answers don't further the healing process. That seems very logical to me, but obviously is at odds with what many people on this site will say. For the time being, I will follow my gut and try not to ask him to thrust the knife any deeper!!!! He has answered my questions openly and honestly thus far -- other than TT the first week on how long it had been going on. I think it was his shame that wanted to minimize the length, but he corrected that lie quickly.

Each person is different and handles this trauma in a unique and individual way. I firmly believe there is no right or wrong. Figure out what YOU need and ASK for it! That's my strategy!


Me: 40s BS, Him: 40s WH
M 20 yrs - 3 teens
LTA = 2+ yrs, Dday = 2/10/13, he moved out, MC/IC/FC,
He officially moved back in 1/25/14 and our work continues...

Posts: 526 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: MidWest
1Faith
Member
Member # 38975
Default  Posted: 4:00 PM, August 6th (Tuesday)

Heathenchristian

I am sorry you are here but it is a good place to be.

Follow your own path. Seek the information you need.

Be careful of rushing toward reconciliation though.

I tried so long to do it alone and on my own. I was bound and determined to be stronger than "this" - well "this" kicked my ass and then some.

Take it day by day. But if your husband is not getting what he has done and that you truly ARE the victim, that worries me.

His chats and wanting to be friends with any other women, especially right now, is a sign he is not truly remorseful. Regretful, probably. Remorseful no. (((sorry)))

With regards to knowing all the information. That is up to you.

I have two POV's on this (for what it is worth)

1. I don't believe anyone ever knows all the details. No matter how much we probe, cry, kick and scream. The WS is not capable of revealing everything. It's not so much about trickle truth as it is about self preservation. So even if someone says they know everything they can't.

How many thoughts do you have that you never share? How many conversations might you have had that you don't remember every detail?

There are things we, the BS, will simply never know. That is something we have to accept.

2. Once you know something you can unknow it.
So many people know when they know enough. And if that is where you are then that is okay.

You have had a double betrayal because you knew the AP. That is double the hurt.

Does the OW's husband know? Something to think about.

I know you are hurting so please take care of YOU right now. However you need to do that.

Pray for God's guidance. I am assuming from your title you have faith in your life. Trust in Him to guide your path.

It is long and hard but you will be okay. You matter and many care for you.

(((hugs and prayers)))


If you're going through hell, keep going. - Winston Churchill

Posts: 835 | Registered: Apr 2013
heathenchristian
Member
Member # 40060
Default  Posted: 8:44 PM, August 6th (Tuesday)

@ 1Faith - the OW was not someone I know.

The someone I know is a girl he worked with that he flirted with. I asked him if anything happened between them because I know they talked/texted/facebooked alot. He said they just flirted. I know her and her husband and kids. SMH - she's piece of garbage in the respect she manipulates all systems.

As far as getting details. I asked what I needed to know. I don't need the physical stuff. He answered all questions without hesitation. The last time they were physical was in April. He said from there they just had lunch together and talked. It was more like they were friends (she was already seeing another guy at work) I asked what they talked about and he said "oddly enough family, her kids, our child".

He would tell me all details if I asked. I know he would, he's never held back on details of past physical relationships prior to me. I never asked talked about them to me like I was a guy friend. SMH

I need to set boundaries and make a list of things he can do to help me through this if he wants this to work as he says he does.

It's up to him to do them. I can only keep working on myself as a whole person.

Lots of love, hugs and prayers to you all.

[This message edited by heathenchristian at 8:56 PM, August 6th (Tuesday)]


If you don't want me at my worst, maybe I won't need you at my best.
DDAY 1 - not sure but it was July, Aug or Sept 2010 (supposed bj from hooker)
DDAY 2 - 7-22-2013 she was the made up hooker

Posts: 99 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: IL
Painfuljourney
Member
Member # 40208
Default  Posted: 10:10 PM, August 6th (Tuesday)

I have to have all the details. A small trigger will bring about a bunch of new questions. Some I've already asked. I need everything so I can visualize and accept it I think. I can't accept something I don't understand. It's not pretty, but in my WH's case he said the sex was lousy. So at least he didn't say it was fantastic. I don't think he was sugarcoating either. He said it was hollow and the fog was listing after the first sex act. Anyway, for me I am still not done asking questions. He has gotten defensive at times, but I read him some stuff from here and how it's so important for BS to get the whole story because we weren't there. Another woman was touching him and kissing him. I need to know how it felt and everything to him. Some answers I are hard to take, but mostly I get comfort in just knowing.


BS (me) - 44
WH - 46
DD - July 1, 2013
2 daughters, 14 and 10

Posts: 102 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Southwest
Topic Posts: 29