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User Topic: When will enough be enough for me?
84CF
Member
Member # 40112
Default  Posted: 12:04 AM, August 6th (Tuesday)

Ugh. Don't even read this. I'm basically crying into the void here. Thanks for giving me a space to do it...

D-Day -- this one, at least -- was in the second week of June.

She and I have been together for 12 years, married for 4. Non-monogamy has never been okay in our relationship. I have been clear about my need for this from the beginning, and I have never failed to hold up my side of the bargain. She cheated on me once very early in our relationship. She did it again, far more seriously, in the third year. Each time it was with a man from a previous relationship. After the second time, I almost left but did not. She entered into intense therapy to try to resolve childhood traumas. We went to counseling. I agreed to try to move forward. We married in year 8.

Last spring (2012), I discovered that she had begun exchanging inappropriately warm messages with yet another old boyfriend (her first boyfriend). The messages were not sexual, but deeply emotional, and most importantly she hid them from me. I confronted her. I thought we were past this kind of thing and couldn't believe that she had allowed it to enter into our lives after so much time. She said that I had every right to be upset and that it was a wake-up call for her. She said that she would make sure that I knew about any contact, that she would be more aware of maintaining lines, that it truly was just a rekindling of a friendship and old patterns of communicating, but nothing more.

In June of this year, one year later, I discovered a new truth. It turns out that one week after telling me last spring that she never wanted me to worry, that she was deeply sorry for reviving deep pain from early in our relationship, that she would do anything to protect me and us, that she would never hide anything more from me again, she opened a secret email account and continued corresponding with this guy. She travels during the summers for work to the place where this guy lives. She met with the guy and they began a full-on PA.

I did not know. There was fuzzy time during the weeks that she was traveling, but not so out of the ordinary that I grew overly suspicious. When I asked her about it, she gaslighted me, saying that she hadn't heard anything from the guy since the spring, that I needed to trust her, etc. I should have known.

After effectively spending a good portion of summer 2012 together, they continued their email correspondence in fall 2012 and then met for another secret rendezvous in January 2013, this time in the city where we live. I was told that she had a weekend work trip. It turns out to have been a getaway with this guy.

The email correspondence continued through this spring (2013). The trauma of last spring plus a thousand little inconsistencies had made me increasingly suspicious, increasingly crazy. Completely out of my mind and fed up with the gut feeling that something was not right, I finally searched for more correspondence and found it.

When I confronted her, she told me everything. At first it was reluctant, but then it all gushed out. She gave me access to the secret email account. She stopped corresponding as far as I know.

She made the decision to travel again for work during this summer, and thus we have been basically separated for a month and a half. We talk everyday, often for several hours. She says she wants to try to repair things with me. She says that she has cut off all contact with the guy. She says that she wants to go into addiction therapy (for impulse control, not substance abuse), having gained new insights into her own issues through all of this. She says she wants me and our relationship, if we can mend it. She says she cannot believe that this all happened.

Me? I am still reeling. I feel awful pretty much all the time. I have a wife whom I deeply love and sincerely wish to be happy. I have a wife with whom I am unbelievably angry. I have a wife toward whom I am unbelievably resentful. I have a wife whom I absolutely, positively do not trust. I have a wife who I believe does, in fact, love me and does, in fact, want to be in our marriage. But I do not trust that she will ever be able to do it.

I am able to state all of this very clearly to her and to myself, yet I am painfully unable to give up hope that she might be able to figure it out. I know, at least, that I would be a fool to continue in such a marriage unless I am guaranteed that I will never find myself here again, that I am guaranteed to receive the love and respect that I deserve. I know that such guarantees are not really possible. I would advise anyone else that they are impossible.

Yet I cannot just say "it's over." And so I am stuck. When is enough enough? I feel so weak. So ashamed by my weakness. Yet I cannot fully close the door yet. She says she wants to try and I love her. Yet I don't know how to get back to solid ground from where I am.

If you have read this far, thanks for doing so. Is there any possibility for me to secure guarantees that she will never do anything of this sort again? I cannot take a leap of faith this time. It just seems like such a terrible, terrible, terrible waste.


Posts: 54 | Registered: Jul 2013
PhantomLimb
Member
Member # 39668
Default  Posted: 12:14 AM, August 6th (Tuesday)

((84CF))

I'm still pretty new here, too... and a pretty foggy BS... so I will let the veterans give more thorough advice...

That said, as someone who read the entire post and cares deeply for others who are going through what I'm going through... my initial response is, no, she isn't capable of being who you need her to be. And you deserve much better than that.

I'm really sorry you are going through this. But know you aren't "weak." Having the strength to love people despite their faults isn't weakness. It's shows the strength of your character. You just need to make sure that you don't let that strength become a vice by not pulling yourself out of a situation that is becoming increasingly toxic for you.

Trust me, you can't save her. She has to do it for herself.

[This message edited by PhantomLimb at 12:14 AM, August 6th (Tuesday)]


BS / D

Posts: 785 | Registered: Jun 2013
Josephine01
Member
Member # 38511
Default  Posted: 12:22 AM, August 6th (Tuesday)

84CF ((((((HUGS)))))))))))))

I am so sorry that you find yourself in this position again. I wish I could give you some hope for your relationship. There will be people along soon to advise you. I just want you to know that I feel your pain and that you have been heard and I read the whole thing.

I wish you success in becoming happy with or without your WW.

To answer your question, I don't think there are any guarantees when it comes to WS. Most of the time one needs to follow their gut. It sounds like you know what that is telling you to do. I know this is hard. It is the worst hurt that I have experienced so far. But you can get through it. This site is full of people just like you. Check out the healing library to the left of the screen


You will find strength. Are you in IC? This seems like it would be a positive step to help yourself.

As I lived in denial for a long time, I can relate a little bit to your situation.


Me, 42 BS
H, 61 WH
2 boys 19 and 15 years old
Married 24 years

Posts: 314 | Registered: Feb 2013
lovelymrsm
New Member
Member # 40077
Happy  Posted: 12:26 AM, August 6th (Tuesday)

84CF
I am so proud of you for writing this post. I just started posting tonight also. I just joined SI after our 5th dday.
I understand your pain. I'm living it too. There are amazing things in the healing library that have helped me understand my feelings and start healing.
Keep posting and reading


BS me 38,fWS him 40
Married 2004
4 kids S21,S7,twinsS/D4
DDay1-PA-Nov17,04 ow1 xgf
DDay2-PA-Jan07 ow2 my co-worker
DDay3-PA-Aug11 ow3 5x/2wks hooker
DDay4-E/PA-Aug13 ow4 (Jan-Apr13)
TT Aug13, working on R

Posts: 7 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Canada
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 8:40 AM, August 6th (Tuesday)

I'm seeing a pattern here....
She says she wants to try to repair things with me. She says that she has cut off all contact with the guy. She says that she wants to go into addiction therapy (for impulse control, not substance abuse), having gained new insights into her own issues through all of this. She says she wants me and our relationship,

She says she wants to try and I love her.

"She says she wants...." = pretty words right now.
Words that you will use to hold on to hope....but they really are nothing but a waste of oxygen and time right now.
She says that she has cut off all contact with the guy.

Well, she said that she had stopped contact last year.....and she was lying, right? So she thinks that you should just believe her....why?
She says she cannot believe that this all happened.

Really. Well, how incredibly 'passive' of her. *This* would not have happened if *she* hadn't been an active participant.

She is not some small little rowboat at the mercy of the high seas.
She is an adult woman with free will and the ability to make choices for herself.

See here's the deal....I want to get good grades. I want my kids to eat healthy. I want clean toilets. The caveat is this: No matter how badly I 'want' something, it usually takes ACTION on my part in order to make it happen. My toilets are not just going to magically clean themselves just because I 'want' them to, kwim?

My stbx was all 'talk' and no 'action.' It was frustrating and stupid. I told him one day: You're like the guy that says that he wants $1M, but then just sits on the couch all day, watching ESPN in your underwear, while bitching that you're not a millionaire yet.

Your WW is a serial-cheater.....which is not an automatic 'toss her aside' because I do believe that people can change. However, the person has to REALLY want to change and be very, very pro-active in taking the steps necessary for that change to occur. That person has to be committed to the change.

You are not a weak person for allowing your WW a chance to change.
After reading your story, I think you might be served well to detach from her a bit because based on what I read.....the odds are way more likely that she will be a repeat offender because her cycle seems to be that she gets caught and does 'just enough' to hold on to the relationship, and then starts up again. She seems to be unable to consider the effects of her behavior on you and your relationship.

And I'll bet that the whole "this is a wake-up call for me" line won't work on you this time, right?

Enough will be enough for you.....when enough becomes enough for you.
Some people reach 'enough' very quickly, and others take longer. And some never get there.

[This message edited by gonnabe2016 at 8:52 AM, August 6th (Tuesday)]


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCyL6pa_L4M


Posts: 7239 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
84CF
Member
Member # 40112
Default  Posted: 8:47 PM, August 7th (Wednesday)

Thank you for your time and thoughts, everyone.

PhantomLimb: no, I can't save her. I just am not sure why part of me obviously still thinks that she will save herself and change the behaviors.

Jose: yes, I am in IC. It was the first call I made after finding out.

Lovely: hang in there.

Gonnabe: yes, definitely a pattern that I am trying to break. It's very hard for me to say, finally, no more chances. But I think that may have to be the outcome here. As I said, I cannot and will not take a leap of faith. I just wish there were some other way.

Ugh. Who needs all of this. I cannot believe that I am back here again. Have to concentrate on the fact that it's actually a new place to be, not an old one.

Thanks again, everyone.


Posts: 54 | Registered: Jul 2013
scaredyKat
Member
Member # 25560
Default  Posted: 12:00 AM, August 8th (Thursday)

Gonnabe hit the nail...actions. You'll will never "get over this." But you can learn to live with it, you can repair your life you can live a new normal. Your wife has to do most of the heavy lifting.
There book HOW TO HELP YOUR SPOUSE HEAL FROM AN AFFAIR is short and sweet and lays out her job pretty clearly. She needs to take those steps, work that program carefully and diligently until, well, until you don't need her to anymore. That could take years. So be it.
Hugs. Post here, too. We listen.


Me-BS-59
HIM-SAFWH-63
Damn autocorrect is responsible for the silly errors, sorry!

Posts: 2905 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: In my head
TrustGone
Member
Member # 36654
Default  Posted: 12:49 AM, August 8th (Thursday)

I am sorry you find yourself here, but it is a great place to let your feelings show without judgement. I know you love your wife, that is obvious or you wouldn't still be trying to hold on. The truth of the matter is she checked out of the marriage a long time ago. They all have pretty words after they get caught, but it's the actions that really tell how sincere they really are. She choose to leave again for the summer. That says alot for how committed she is to the marriage. If she was truely remorseful she would be home trying to fix herself and the marriage instead of taking off for the summer. She knows what she did before while seperated, why would she do it again right after another DDay?? It sounds like she may be regretful for her latest A, but not remorseful. There is a big difference in the two.
She sounds like she is a serial cheater and you can't fix that. Only she can fix herself and it doesn't sound like she put a lot of effort into that.

I am sure this is not what you want to hear, but I am being truthful. I lived for over 20 years with a serial cheater. He was always sorry after the fact, then after a while he would do it again. I finally got enough and filed for D. Then I married another guy who I thought would never even think of cheating, but he also cheated on me for 3yrs, which I am currently dealing with.

Only you can say when enough is enough. You are the only one that can say what you are willing to put up with and for how long. Being a BS over and over again drains the life out of you until you wind up hating not only the WS, but also yourself for putting up with it and thinking they will eventually change and realize the hurt they are inflicting on you. So far I haven't really seen the remorse from either of my WH's. They both say they loved me and they are sorry, but after awhile it is just words that mean nothing anymore.

I think you know what you have to do and it hurts so bad to have to do it, but you have to save yourself. You are the only one that can control how your life turns out. Do you want to continue to be cheated on? Do you want her telling you she loves you as she is heading out the door to met another man? Do you want to continue to live through this kind of pain? Do you want her to continue to lie and manipulate you? Do you want her to throw you crumbs everytime she cheats to keep you as her back-up plan? Please read up on the 180 and start implementing it. It will help you detach enough to think about what you really want in life. (((HUGS)))


BW-50
WH#2-51
M-9 yrs T-11 yrs
4 children-none together
DD#1-9/5/11 LTA 2yrs
DD#2-7/3/12 False R
DD#3-4/29/13 (OW broke NC)
Status: Your guess is as good as mine.

Posts: 2420 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: Texas
84CF
Member
Member # 40112
Default  Posted: 8:17 AM, August 10th (Saturday)

Really hurting today.

She is slated to return to my city in 10 days. The question is whether she returns home. I hear essentially two things from her: 1) she wants to return to try to work things out -- give it one year, she says; 2) she also says that she does not know what she wants.

I can't tell what this means. I told her that no amount of work on our marriage was going to fix the lying and cheating. I am not perfect, and I'm sure that I could learn to be an even better communicator in our marriage, etc. But I also have no control over whether she lies to me and cheats on me, and I refuse to take responsibility for that. Those are her problems that only she can solve, and unless she is willing to recognize that and actually do something about it, there is no chance of a happy marriage for both of us.

I just feel so awful. To anyone out there: Am I wrong in my thinking here? Any recommended adjustments/further thoughts?


Posts: 54 | Registered: Jul 2013
womaninflux
Member
Member # 39667
Default  Posted: 8:25 AM, August 10th (Saturday)

Your posts say a lot about what SHE wants. What do YOU want?

Also, have you considered the possibility that she is a love/sex addict with intimacy disorder? It certainly sounds like she is. You should do an internet search (there are a lot of helpful websites with info on this addiction) and see if some of her behaviors are in line with this issue.


BS - mid-40's
SAWH - mid 40's
Kids - 2 elementary school aged
Getting tons of therapy and trying to "work it out"

Posts: 809 | Registered: Jun 2013
jjct
Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 8:30 AM, August 10th (Saturday)

You are absolutely correct about:
no amount of work on our marriage was going to fix the lying and cheating.

She doesn't know what she wants?
That's a weak attempt to reel you in to "fix it for her" mode.

Whatever you do - just take care of you. ok?


Posts: 5998 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 8:46 AM, August 10th (Saturday)

As was previously said only you will know when enough is enough..In the meantime working on you ensures that you will find direction and clarity in this mess.
My thoughts and prayers are with you that you won't be stuck in M or in house separation longer than you want to be because of finances(like me)when you do get the clarity of knowing when enough is enough..

Wishing you strength and peace


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 779 | Registered: Nov 2011
84CF
Member
Member # 40112
Default  Posted: 8:53 AM, August 10th (Saturday)

Thanks, womaninflux and jjct and doggiediva.

What do I want? 1) Truly, I want peace and well-being. 2) However, I also still want her to get it together so that I can be with her and still have #1. It's very difficult for me to give up on #2 when I believe that part of her wants that, too, even though my gut knows that my giving up is likely the only outcome here.

I'm not so lost that I can't see how my thinking is problematic here, but I'm trying to be honest about where I am.

[This message edited by 84CF at 8:54 AM, August 10th (Saturday)]


Posts: 54 | Registered: Jul 2013
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 9:52 AM, August 10th (Saturday)

It's very hard for me to say, finally, no more chances. But I think that may have to be the outcome here. As I said, I cannot and will not take a leap of faith. I just wish there were some other way

Over the last 3 years, I kept giving stbx 'chances.' Chance after chance after chance. And he blew every single one until I was forced to look at the situation and see that there was NO scenario in which staying with him was palatable. It actually got to the point where hearing him say "I want to...", or "I'm going to...", or even "I'm sorry...." became very strong triggers for me and I would shut down instantly when I heard them because we'd BEEN through that song & dance before and I knew that the final move ended up with him dropping me on the floor instead of helping me to land gracefully on my feet.
I also still want her to get it together so that I can be with her

I hear ya. BTDT. And it's very, very hard to 'let go' when your spouse is *saying* the 'right' things to you. But until SHE sees that she needs to 'get it together' for herSELF and starts actually taking steps to work on it......you just have to look at her and know that she is still that *same* person regardless of the drivel that is coming from her mouth.
Last Week:
She says she wants me and our relationship, if we can mend it
But Now:
return to try to work things out -- give it one year, she says; 2) she also says that she does not know what she wants

TBH, there is not too much worse than hearing your serial-cheating spouse tell you that s/he isn't 'sure' of what s/he wants and it really is a ticket to the LimboLand/More Cheating train for you. (Pssst --> that destination sucks. I don't recommend it.)

And like jj, I get the impression that she is expecting you to be the one to 'fix this' and make it work......( and FYI, I tried that one too, and ended up in the previously mentioned sucky destination)


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCyL6pa_L4M


Posts: 7239 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
Brandon808
Member
Member # 35619
Default  Posted: 9:55 AM, August 10th (Saturday)

I apologize for the bluntness but your WW is broken.
You cannot fix her because she does not want to be fixed.
She feeds on this drama, this conflict. She has shown it to be a consistent pattern...the only consistent pattern.

Separate from her until she genuinely gets help on her own. Get IC for yourself and be prepared to lose the M in order to (perhaps) save it.


xBH
D final 8/2012

Posts: 3363 | Registered: May 2012 | From: southeast
StrongerOne
Member
Member # 36915
Default  Posted: 1:03 PM, August 10th (Saturday)

84cf, you are getting great advice here, and lots of support. I'm going to be super blunt -- because you need to take care of yourself. Get std testing immediately. Don't have sex w your wife until she gets tested and you get the results directly from her doc. If you do have sex w her, use protection.


DDay Feb 2011.
In R.

Posts: 788 | Registered: Sep 2012
catlover50
Member
Member # 37154
Default  Posted: 3:20 PM, August 10th (Saturday)

(((84cf))))

Your WW needs to be doing everything in her power to fix herself and then win YOU back. Anything short of a heroic effort is wasting your time IMHO. You are not getting anything close to that at this time.

She knows you. She knows what she has to lose. You have nothing to prove. She does.

Make her fight for you. If it takes months of separation for her to get it, fine-- you will be busy getting your strength back and working on you. If she never gets it then she's not worth it!!! YOU are the prize, and should not have to convince her of that.

So sorry you have to deal with this nightmare.



Dday -9/24/2012
Reconciling

Posts: 1651 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: northeast
fallingquickly
Member
Member # 36599
Default  Posted: 3:46 PM, August 10th (Saturday)

Hugs 84CF,

This:

But I also have no control over whether she lies to me and cheats on me, and I refuse to take responsibility for that.

is an important realization you have made.

I had two DDs and some TT after that. He continued to cheat after the first DD. Like you, I wanted to believe him and believe in him. I found out it had been going on for years, at least his trying to pick up women. I now believe there is more that I don't know, but it truly doesn't matter anymore. I came to the conclusion that things were not going to change. Oddly, for me, that realization occurred with a relatively small thing. A refusal to answer an unimportant personal question and then finding out that he was hiding an activity I would not have been mad about if he had told me in the first place.

There will come a point where you know things aren't going to change. Sometimes we hang on for a long time working our butts off to facilitate that change. I held out for over two years. That was after years of alcoholism and bad treatment. I am mostly at peace with it but I also have doubts at times. It's not like a switch flips. It's more like the scales tip too far one way and they just keep going.

I truly mourn what could have been. However, that just wasn't what was really happening. He was leading a different life than I with different values and morals.

Think it through. Think for yourself if this is what you really want. Are you staying because of who you want her to be or who she really is?


Me-BW 50
Him-STBXWH

2 Ddays and lots of TT
divorcing

Scars remind us where we've been. They don't have to dictate where we're going. (Criminal Minds)

I saw him, I could not unsee him. -StrongButBroken


Posts: 452 | Registered: Aug 2012
84CF
Member
Member # 40112
Default  Posted: 8:07 PM, August 10th (Saturday)

Wow. Just, wow.

So, there has been fuzzy time in the last week and today I found strange credit card charges. I called her on it, and she had explanations. Then I called her on another bit and caught her in a big lie about where she said she was this afternoon.

"Why are you still lying to me?" I said.

"I don't know," she replied.

"You've been seeing him?"

"Yes."

"You need to find a new place to live," I said. And I hung up.

This is really going to hurt in the morning. I'm in complete shock. What is the point of lying to me at this moment? So, so sad. At least I know.

[This message edited by 84CF at 8:07 PM, August 10th (Saturday)]


Posts: 54 | Registered: Jul 2013
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 8:50 PM, August 10th (Saturday)

Your wife sounds like she is addicted to the high of cheating relationships and there is little to no chance she will stop. I believe she is waiting for you to do the dirty work of ending the marriage and she keeps giving you reason after reason to do so.

Its sad and painful but you have to file and begin the process of terminating your relationship. She's a selfish liar who cannot be trusted and she has little respect for you or your marriage.

Let her go. There is a better future out there.


Posts: 1468 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Ashland13
Member
Member # 38378
Default  Posted: 9:25 PM, August 10th (Saturday)

Hi 84,

Your WW sounds like Nearly Exh did, for a time.

What I found is that probably I could have tried to work on the cheating part, if he was "real" about all of it, but he was not. He also treated me very badly after he was caught and to follow, he said and did so many other things that I simply can't be around him anymore.

There is a threshold we seem to arrive at and a friend of mine says, "you just know." I believe that. It's an instinct, something in your gut, something in the hemisphere, that says, "that's enough."

Yes, one of the posts talks about WS wanting out but not wanting to deal with it (Exit Affair) and that's Nearly Exh. An IC said it was a passive aggressive way to get me to do the dirty work and even though part of me died, I did finally file the papers.

My threshold or deal breakers were the lies and the rewriting of our marriage, where he made it all about me, lying about me to relatives and about things that happened. He also said things to me that no human being should hear and tried to take custody of our child away from me, so you see, sometimes other elements stack up, as well.

And, what drives me nuts is something he does now, where his words don't match his actions. I get that out of some of your writing, where your wife says, "I want", but then does the behavior against your marriage again. So her words don't seem to match her actions and it's frustrating, isn't it?

Yes, it took a long time for me to understand that I had a voice and that this man I loved was taking horrible advantage of me and making a laughing stock of me and my life with his cheating. Your wife is being very disrespectful to you and I'm sorry, for you've surely stood by her for a very long time-she's lucky in that and I'm sorry to say it sounds like she's taking advantage of your good nature.

I'm sorry for my long post, for I was in the same place. I finally filed, but am in mourning for the life that's been stolen from me and I have to rebuild on a shoestring.

I wish you well in your decision making and wonder if it's time to 180 and do some more thinking? At least it would be a little bit of peace from the shenanigans. I find it hard sometimes, but find the peace worthwhile when, I can do it for some time.

[This message edited by Ashland13 at 9:26 PM, August 10th (Saturday)]


Ashland 13

The only thing that stays the same, is change. -M. Etheridge


Posts: 1955 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: New England
toomanyregrets
Member
Member # 37740
Default  Posted: 9:48 PM, August 10th (Saturday)

I'm so sorry your here.

Something clicked when you said your WW decided to travel again for work. Something made me think that she was going to see the OM.
Why else would she want to leave.


BH - 63
fWW - 59

"Affairs are not mistakes, they are a series of deliberate choices." - CrappyLife


Posts: 430 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Upstate NY
84CF
Member
Member # 40112
Default  Posted: 10:10 PM, August 10th (Saturday)

Thanks for your responses, everyone. Yes, her going away again this summer has been a major point of contention in our conversations. At least I was able to stick with my gut. It's probably a blessing that I know now.

I am going to go with NC. It is, I'm sure, easy for me to say now while I am still in shock. It's going to be painful tomorrow. Since this happened earlier this evening I've called friends to let them know what happened and that I'm going to need to lean on them especially hard this week.

What a tremendous waste. I'm disgusted now. Tomorrow I will be devastated.


Posts: 54 | Registered: Jul 2013
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 10:16 PM, August 10th (Saturday)

"Why are you still lying to me?" I said.

"I don't know," she replied.

"You've been seeing him?"

"Yes."

"You need to find a new place to live," I said. And I hung up.


I'm really sorry.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCyL6pa_L4M


Posts: 7239 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
mandan66
Member
Member # 40075
Default  Posted: 11:28 PM, August 10th (Saturday)

84CF---sadly, your story is all too familiar. I allowed myself to be strung along for longer than was healthy. It is difficult when you remember many positives about the WS, usually just enough to keep you hoping. But the reality I was faced was that she wasn't really going to change in a positive, trusting way.
I can tell you the day I filed felt like the world had been lifted off my shoulders, and some semblance of control was again back in life. There have been hard times since, no doubt, but nothing like the unending nightmare of the limbo I was in. If it comes to that, you will survive. Believe it.


Me: 47; WW: 48
2 DS: 9, 14
M:18--T:19
DDay: Jan/13
Divorced and Done!--7/13

Posts: 121 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: KS
fallingquickly
Member
Member # 36599
Default  Posted: 11:38 PM, August 10th (Saturday)

I don't think that the WS understands that the lies are what really kills the marriage. If they would realize the pain they caused and change then it might have worked out. I believe that often they cannot stop lying. They have done it for so long. It's a way of life.

This is a major generalization. I do realize that. I've just seen it over and over here and experienced it in my own life. The last straw wasn't another affair. It was another lie.


Me-BW 50
Him-STBXWH

2 Ddays and lots of TT
divorcing

Scars remind us where we've been. They don't have to dictate where we're going. (Criminal Minds)

I saw him, I could not unsee him. -StrongButBroken


Posts: 452 | Registered: Aug 2012
84CF
Member
Member # 40112
Default  Posted: 7:19 AM, August 11th (Sunday)

Yes, you are absolutely right that it's the lying that is the root of the hurt. The rest is horrible, but the lies are what cause the broken self-esteem.

At least I know. At least I know. At least I know.

I feel absolutely awful today.


Posts: 54 | Registered: Jul 2013
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 8:01 AM, August 11th (Sunday)

Sorry, friend.

I know that you feel awful. You are supposed to feel awful. There is nothing worse than watching your marriage disintegrate in front of you, and are powerless to save it.

Read up on the 180 in The Healing Library. It is a detachment tool that would benefit you greatly in this circumstance. While many of the steps seem strange...even counterproductive...understand that the end result is to give you some emotional distance from your wayward wife. And once you get some emotional distance, you will see things in a different light.

She is not a safe person to be emotionally connected to at this time. And while it may seem impossible to pull back, it will get easier over time---if you work at it.

Knowledge is power my friend, and that is the path that I would follow. Start with seeing and attorney, and getting an understanding of where you will be financially if you divorce. Set up a personal bank account, and move half of the finances there. Cancel joint credit cards. Start working towards an independent life.

Who knows? Maybe your WW will have her *aha* moment. But you should not wait around for it. I always believed that the path toward divorce is a linear one, unless the wayward spouse can show you otherwise to stop the process. Think about it---if you started this process years ago, after her 2nd extramarital affair, where would you be today? Maybe divorced and rebuilding, or maybe with your wife that came to her senses then, when she realized that you were leaving.

I know that these "what ifs" can drive a person insane. But you know the definition of insanity--repeating the same procedure with expectations of a different outcome. That is where you have been for years. It is time to do something different---something for YOU.

[This message edited by jb3199 at 8:02 AM, August 11th (Sunday)]


BH-46
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 19(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 26yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 1869 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
84CF
Member
Member # 40112
Default  Posted: 12:46 AM, August 12th (Monday)

I am in intense pain right now. It is almost unbearable.

Posts: 54 | Registered: Jul 2013
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 1:21 AM, August 12th (Monday)

I am in intense pain right now. It is almost unbearable.

Yep. But that intense pain dissipates once you realize that your life is 'going on' every day and that the *world* hasn't stopped just because it feels like it should have.

Years ago, my mother died suddenly. I went to the mall for 'funeral' clothes. I very distinctly remember seeing people in the mall parking lot that were just living life and talking/joking with their friends and me being stunned about it because MY world was completely 'jacked up.' My mom had just died....how can all of these people be carrying on as usual?

Point is....you get through that ungodly, unbearable pain of the 'early' days through sheer force of will and self-preservation instincts.

Know your limits. Enforce you limits. That is really all that you can do.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCyL6pa_L4M


Posts: 7239 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
84CF
Member
Member # 40112
Default  Posted: 1:34 AM, August 12th (Monday)

I just can't believe it has come to this. She doesn't care. My wife, my partner of almost 13 years, does not care.

Posts: 54 | Registered: Jul 2013
BrighterFuture
Member
Member # 38914
Default  Posted: 3:41 AM, August 12th (Monday)

Selfish people don't care. Enforce no contact for your own self preservation. Once you get past the hurt, it'll get better. It's better to go througg this pain once and be happier in the future than to continue to accept her selfish behavior which will result in eternal misery for you. Stay strong.

Hugs!


Me:30
Him:31
D-day:2/24/13 (I was 10 weeks pregnant at the time and DS was 15 months)
Status: Parted ways!

"If only I can fight just a little longer, I know it's gonna make me stronger" Jamie Grace-Holding on.


Posts: 260 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Ohio
homewrecked2011
Member
Member # 34678
Default  Posted: 5:29 AM, August 12th (Monday)

My wife, my partner of almost 13 years, does not care

This was how I felt at DDAY, too.


The OW in our situation had an affair when she was 20. Her husband shot and killed the other man, then himself. This did not faze her! Her next husband she cheated on! And the next one! She is with my H, he has lost everything, our children are devastated, and guess what? I have heard from a source that she is cheating on my XH. She's only been divorced from her H for 4 months!!!!

These people are sick. We did not see it coming because they are convince themselves they are ok. They are not!

Although your heart is broken, these serial cheaters are like binge drinkers. They appear like normal people, but you don't know when their mind goes off track and they start to set up for a binge.

I read 2 chapters of the book Love Must Be Tough. The author says the line of respect has been crossed over and over by our spouses. He says to stand up and say NO MORE! Just like you would to a drug addicted child. He says a huge blowout is better than a slow leak. IF you can read just the first two chapters I believe it will really help to gather your thoughts.

I was devastated at DDAY because the OW was my friend and they had been together in front of me for a YEAR!! There are 4 children involved and they just didn't care about anyone. And her oldest child was 2 when her Daddy killed the OM and himself. So this child is growing up w/o her Dad and the OW still goes on with the same behavior! You see, it's not about us,, it's about this: They are very sick people.

On this site there is a forum called I Can Relate. There is one heading in that category for Men who have been betrayed and another one for Spouses of Sex Addicts. Please go on there as you heal. So many helpful people there will support you.

(((84CF)))


me BS 52
him - 46
married 15 years DIVORCED 10 31 12
children - ds15 ds12
d-day 12-19-11
I gave a 24hour ultimatum then went to attorney next day
Divorce filed

Posts: 1700 | Registered: Jan 2012
sailorgirl
Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 8:45 AM, August 12th (Monday)

84CF,

I just wanted you to know that I read your thread and I'm so sorry that your wife is so messed-up.

She is like a sinking ship. Don't let her take you down with her--get away from her (emotionally and physically) for your own safety.


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 10:32 AM, August 12th (Monday)

84
It is not that she does not care but she is so messed up she is unable to care about herself. about you or about your marriage.

It is no reflection on you.

Sadly she will realize this after you are long gone.

It is time to save yourself.

You cannot Reconcile with a liar!
You cannot Reconcile with a cheater.
You cannot Reconcile with someone that knows they are sick and doing hurtful things to their spouse but are unable to stop making poor choices.

Go see an attorney. Ste the wheels in motion.

Go save yourself.

HM64


Posts: 670 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
84CF
Member
Member # 40112
Default  Posted: 7:58 AM, August 13th (Tuesday)

Feeling pretty awful this morning.

Dealing with friends' reactions has been hard. Some have responded really well, really sympathetically. One friend, though, whom I expected to be more able to negotiate the situation, actually said to me, "Well, I guess she never did anything to me, so why should I be angry with her?" I understand that she is in a difficult spot, but it's not what I needed to hear.

I want someone, anyone, from an objective position to say that what she is doing is wrong. They don't have to stop being her friend, but as friends why can't they see this as incredibly destructive and cruel behavior? I understand that they are trying not to judge, but their reserved judgment of the situation feeds into all of my feelings of self-doubt. Maybe I did something to deserve this? Maybe I was actually a bad husband and that led to this? Maybe this is actually okay, on some level, what she is doing? A large part of me knows that the answer to all of these is a resounding NO. But it's so hard to remember that the sky is blue, and not green, when I see my friends trying to act relatively normally with her, and when I see her acting relatively normally with them. I know that she is both compartmentalizing and also creating a narrative for herself that makes her feel better about her actions. But it just hurts so much.

I'm finding that accepting this new life is really, really painful.


Posts: 54 | Registered: Jul 2013
jjct
Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 9:29 AM, August 13th (Tuesday)

84CF)))
It's hard when you don't get validation from people, supposed "friends" IRL.
SI is like an ER in that regard, full of "specialists" who have walked the same path, and come out on the other side healed, and better than ever!

The 180 and NC are the tools you use to move into your own head, your own healing.
"Own" them.
Going "that deep" inside is necessary work. The pay-off is a new you with understandings and insights you never thought you'd possess. Onward!

Dear 84CF,
What your wife did and is doing is wrong.
Signed,
someone


Posts: 5998 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 10:14 AM, August 13th (Tuesday)

hey brother I'm sorry you're having to deal with this. just a quick fYI, there are 40,000 people who will tell you that what your wife is doing is wrong. welcome to the best Club you never wanted to join. we will help you get through this.

regarding the friend situation, it is during the times of greatest adversity that you will find out who your real friends are. sadly, in most cases they are not many. however, it is great to know you can really count on when you need them!

did she agree to move out?

strength



BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2063 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
RyeBread
Member
Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 10:36 AM, August 13th (Tuesday)

84CF,

Very sorry for what you are going through. I completely empathize with your situation. Getting lied to and led on the way you are is soul eating. Get yourself back to who you are. Study and apply the 180 where it applies to you. Take that step back and really decide for yourself, not what anyone else tells you, what you want. Your WW is so wrapped up in herself its time for you to protect yourself. These first few months are tough, but you will get through it.


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 957 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
84CF
Member
Member # 40112
Default  Posted: 9:46 PM, August 15th (Thursday)

Feeling really awful again tonight. It is our anniversary today. She emailed for the first time in five days, saying how devastated and sorry she is for what has happened, etc. But of course I'm quite sure she is still continuing the hurtful behavior.

How is it possible to write that and then spend the rest of her *anniversary* with another man? It's really difficult to fathom that this is what my best friend has become. What a waste of more than a decade of my life.


Posts: 54 | Registered: Jul 2013
mike7
Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 10:00 PM, August 15th (Thursday)

84cf,

I'm sorry you are here. You are hurt and devastated because you are a person with some depth.

She is sleeping with someone else, mouthing the words. There is no doubt in my mind that she is not too worried about you.

What you have to realize is that you are the prize. You need to realize that you are not willing to have someone as shallow and faithless as her. Do you understand?

You. You are deciding that she is not good enough. It doesn't feel that way right now because you are alone and hurt while she isn't.

But you are alone and hurt because you aren't a shallow, deceitful person. It is natural to mourn. If you didn't, something would be wrong with you. Just like there is something wrong with her.

You need to close your heart to her as soon as possible. Go running. Start a new hobby. Get counseling. Seriously. This is a tremendous blow.

But do not, if you want to heal, continue to hope that she will change. Her words are like sickly sweet poison. They sound nice, but kill you, bit by sickly sweet bit.

You must detach.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 261 | Registered: Mar 2013
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 10:40 PM, August 15th (Thursday)

84, Today is my anniversary also. 10 years. D-Day was 18 months 5 days, 6hrs and 45 minutes ago, but who's counting?

I've personally been down this road 5 times with 5 different women now. From very bitter personal experience I will tell you that enough will be enough only when YOU decide it is. "What ifs and Why did she" only serve to prolong your pain.

I've seen that the 180 has been referenced to you. Here's the link. http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/faq_bs.asp#FAQ11 Please, please read it and take it to heart. N/C has been referenced. Any communication needs to be e-mail or text now. Something that leaves a record.

Yes, I'm going to recommend you see an attorney. Get the knowledge of what will occur in a divorce. I'd recommend you file and have the papers ready for her when she gets home. A sense of purpose will help alleviate the pain. She has not only done this to you once, it's the only consistent behavior she's demonstrated. A complete lack of ability to commit.

Please keep uppermost in your mind that you didn't cause this. You can't control anyone but yourself and you can't cure her.

Also, there is a second meaning to DETACH

Don't
Ever
Try
And
Change
Her

Damn, I truly feel your pain.

Strength


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2063 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
84CF
Member
Member # 40112
Default  Posted: 12:47 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

Now starting the process of negotiating the logistics of splitting up the things. Doing it by email so far, and I'm keeping it short and emotionally detached. But the feelings of rejection are overwhelming. This is horrible.

Posts: 54 | Registered: Jul 2013
MissMouseMo
Member
Member # 38562
Default  Posted: 8:52 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

It IS horrible, and hurtful, but chin up. We're out here pulling for you.

Wishing you strength.


It is the gut-wrenching, down-to-your-soul honesty that helps so much. ~paraphrased from CancunCrushed

Posts: 108 | Registered: Feb 2013
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 8:58 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

Sorry brother, you are heard. anyone In Real Life you can talk to?

PM if necessary.

Strength


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2063 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
84CF
Member
Member # 40112
Default  Posted: 5:19 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)

Thanks for the kind words, 5454real and MissMouseMo. Yes, I'm very lucky to have lots of good people IRL, too, to turn to. Trying to focus on that. It's just so hard to believe and accept that the primary person to whom I have turned for more than a decade is now the one doing the harm here, the one whose actions I cannot comprehend.

Posts: 54 | Registered: Jul 2013
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 5:56 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)

saying how devastated and sorry she is for what has happened, etc. But of course I'm quite sure she is still continuing the hurtful behavior.

So sorry you're going through this just as I and so many others have. Hearing those words alongside actions that utterly contradict them and render them meaningless is so hard. Try if at all possible to shut down communication and work on the hard hard process of detaching from her.

She is not sorry. She is not devastated. These are words. You would know it and see it if she were either of these. She is sorry for herself.

Strength.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1452 | Registered: Dec 2012
cardnial
Member
Member # 40382
Default  Posted: 11:10 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)

I also have been trying again and again to make it work. But I just found out my husband has yet betrayed me again. I am devastated

Posts: 55 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: pennsylvania
thecosmogirl
Member
Member # 39707
Default  Posted: 11:35 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)

Big hugs!!!!

Lots of good advice and great people here.
Please take care of you!! Read the Healing library and the books recommended.
Remember to eat, drink and get some kind of exercise...even if you don't feel like it.
Don't stop reading or coming here whenever you want. This is the best place we never wanted to be.


Me: BS
Him: doesn't matter anymore...or does it...

Being very, very careful

D-day 14 June 2013


I'm smart, good looking and gosh darn it, people like me!


Posts: 122 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: trying to figure it out
84CF
Member
Member # 40112
Default  Posted: 3:58 AM, August 26th (Monday)

I'm discovering more evidence -- scant but there -- of more secret email accounts, maybe even adult dating site usage. This is absolutely horrifying. Am I just stupid to have believed her? Am I a complete moron for having believed *in* her all these years?

This is going to really hurt more when the shock wears off. Why am I shocked at all? Because I am stupid, stupid, stupid.


Posts: 54 | Registered: Jul 2013
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 5:37 AM, August 26th (Monday)

Why am I shocked at all? Because I am stupid, stupid, stupid.

If this is true, then you have 40+ thousand other people here that are *stupid* like you.

We trust our partners. Put all of our faith in them, with expectations of the same. That is how deep, emotional bonds are formed. And sometimes, our partners betray us.....and we wind up on infidelity websites.

It is hard for us to comprehend that not only did we choose the wrong partner, but that we lost so much time in our lives that we can never get back. Of course, this is not the situational for all of us here, but definitely for some---and I am sure that you are questioning yourself relentlessly. You can't undo the past---there are no do-overs. But there is a future, and it can be enjoyable, even without your wife. And that is the hardest thing for us to realize in these early days---that we can ever get past the betrayal.

You can, and you will, but you have to put time and energy into it. One piece of that energy has to be to detach from your wife. Did I miss any comments about children? That is the difference between NO contact and LIMITED contact, but either way, you will start to hurt less as you spend more and more time apart.

No contact= No new hurts. That is a saying around here. Start trying to implement this. Don't stuff down your natural emotions---Grieve, cry, rage(constructively)....work through these phases as openly as possible. Do not be ashamed to seek professional help and/or antidepressants if you feel they are needed. This is 84CF's time right now, and you need to focus on it.

Keep posting. Try to keep focus. You can do this.


BH-46
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 19(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 26yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 1869 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
Thefly559
Member
Member # 40268
Default  Posted: 5:38 AM, August 26th (Monday)

Take it easy brother. Just breathe a little! You are far from stupid! You are having a normal reaction to a severely traumatic experience ! She WAS your wife , your lover and your best friend and now she is gone. She is someone you do not know or want to know . You did exactly what I did and so many others on this site , which is to love unconditional. There is nothing wrong with you. You ignored signs that you didn't want to see. I did the same and felt the same as you , especially in the beginning . I could not function , I was throwing up ,I had physical symptoms from the emotional withdrawal .it takes some time but you will go through stages ,grief and mourning,bargaining, then onto anger. Stay there for awhile and use it as fuel ,in a good smart way! Stop beating yourself up , you did not cause this and know matter how much WE wish ,you and/or I cannot control our wives behavior . But we can control our own . I will not tell you to "man up" because I hated hearing that when I was in the beginning stages . You are a man! You loved unconditional , you forgave , you tried your best , you showed empathy, you admit your imperfections , you never got violent or abusive ( I hope) , you know when you had enough ! Whether you chose it or not. So I say you are much more of a man than she is a woman! As all these other people have advised , get a lawyer and start taking care of YOU and do not worry about what she is doing . I know this is hard and is easier said than done , but I am not just some friend of yours who is telling you. I am I guy who went through it exactly the same feelings . Take care of you and cut off all contact with her do that 180 and you can begin to heal. I hope I didn't rant too much but I feel your pain and wish you the best . Know that you are not alone in your battle! Good luck


"what does not kill you , makes you stronger"

Posts: 580 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: nyc
84CF
Member
Member # 40112
Default  Posted: 6:27 AM, August 26th (Monday)

180 has been in full force for the past two weeks. I've had only two email exchanges with her, the first on our anniversary, the second very short about the logistics of splitting the stuff.

No kids, thank gods.

I am saying these words of anguish and self-doubt here and to a therapist, nowhere else.

This is horror.


Posts: 54 | Registered: Jul 2013
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 7:12 AM, August 26th (Monday)

84CF,

All I can do is echo TheFly's words of comfort and support. You are experiencing trauma--an utterly profound shock to your world. It is more than rocked. It has abruptly shattered.

One of my concerns in the early stages of my saga was that what I was feeling was not "normal." That I was reacting so incredibly intensely that there was no way this could be apropos of the situation.

I lost twenty pounts in two months.

I went to the ER vomiting blood.

No sleep.

Went on ADs.

Wailed primal sobbing seemingly out of nowhere.

Nothing helped. And it seemed like it would never abate.

But it has. Enough time--ten months in my case--has elapsed for me to move away from the early stages of trauma. I feel better. Note I say "better." I still wake up and cannot believe that this has become my life. I am divorcing the love of my life. She did not come to her senses and return to our beautiful family.

As so many on SI reminded me early on, we all have our own time frame, our own limits. You will know when you have had enough. I thought I did many times, but I did not. I hung in there for some more hits, some more trauma. And then one day (not out of nowhere; something yet again had happened) my mind quietly but firmly informed me, "Ok. I have had enough pain."

And I filed for divorce. No, the clouds did not part, the sun did not shine. But I no longer felt helpless, anguished in limbo, waiting for her to come back, my dignity, pride, integrity and masculinity in tatters. I had taken control of MYSELF. Not of her.

Please know that everything you experiencing is normal. If you weren't experiencing your torment, it would NOT be normal. You love her. You thought she loved you. She has abandoned you. Incredible, incredible psychic pain.

Please hang in there. This site as well as my therapist have been my lifesavers throughout this process. Keep posting. Don't disappear and isolate yourself in your darkness. Thousands of people on this site have walked the painful path you are treading.

Strength. You will get through this and know when you have had enough.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1452 | Registered: Dec 2012
jjct
Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:30 AM, August 26th (Monday)

Strength to you!
The 180 is your friend.
NC is your best friend.
Keep on keeping contact to emails only for your sanity's sake - please.
Beware 'sucking you in' attempts.
"Hoovering"

Some people live lives of lies.
In order to avoid the pain of such hollowness, they seek familiar medication that satiates them for awhile. That's all.

Detach like 5454 said.
It's your way out of her madness.


Posts: 5998 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
84CF
Member
Member # 40112
Default  Posted: 10:26 AM, September 3rd (Tuesday)

I'm feeling so angry these days, almost obsessively so. I am currently working to figure out the best, quickest, most efficient, and most painless way to get all of her things out of the house and it just makes me livid. In our brief email exchanges, she expresses that she is devastated (actually she puts it in terms of "we are both devastated by this terrible loss"). She says that she "doesn't feel liberated." She asks what she can do to make things better. WTF??? I'm trying not to respond with any emotion, but I did allow myself to say that she needs to admit that there is a serious problem, to seek out real help and commit to it. Her reply to this is that she is emotionally numb and will have to work on the emotional reckoning later once she has established herself in her new situation. MAKES ME WANT TO SCREAM. Regret but absolutely no remorse, absolutely no capacity to look inward.

What I can't figure out is why it still makes me so angry. There is no going back. We are finished. She seems to want that, in spite of her words. I am working on being able to want that fully myself. (More of me wants it, probably, than I am currently ready to accept, but it's so, so hard to accept.)

And so in the meantime I have to go on, day by day, hour by hour, hiding my emotion from her and from our mutual friends, hiding my anger, hiding my extreme sadness, hiding my horrible feelings of being rejected for what appears to be absolutely no real reason at all.

I am so fucking angry.


Posts: 54 | Registered: Jul 2013
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 12:29 PM, September 7th (Saturday)

84CF

Get your anger out here or in a gym or at a shooting range.

Continue to be cool, calm and dispassionate.

Your wife is so full of crap but you are too close to see all of it.

She is remorseless and has no regret.

Because she is sick. multiple OM, dating sites and she continued to lie right till the end.

Those are the signs of a sick person.

And as much as you do not want this divorce you need to embrace sooner than later.

Because the quicker and more fully you do the quicker you will heal

I had a fiancé like your wife. She did 5 of my closest friends while I was away on duty.

I walked away and never spoke to her again. And I took care of those 5 and never spoke to them either.

Do not be afraid to walk away. Sometimes it is necessary to save yourself. Do not be afraid to walk away from certain supposed friends. You will make new, better friends.

But most importantly let your families know the real reason for the D.

Not to hurt her but so they know just how sick and hurtful her actions have been.

Maybe her family can help her before she gets and std or meets up with the wrong stranger.

Save yourself!

HM64


Posts: 670 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
kannan
Member
Member # 36057
Default  Posted: 9:43 AM, September 9th (Monday)

I think this is a good read for you. Let her go,

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/42520-developing-detachment-letting-go.html


Posts: 134 | Registered: Jul 2012
84CF
Member
Member # 40112
Default  Posted: 11:10 AM, September 9th (Monday)

Thank you for your responses, everyone. I am doing everything I can to detach and move on. It is simply very difficult to accept.

Posts: 54 | Registered: Jul 2013
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 9:02 AM, September 10th (Tuesday)

I know we blithely trot out all this good advice, but we do remember how hard it is pull up roots and move on. The pain is unbelievable and so is the crushing humiliation and blow to our self-esteem.

All we can offer is the certainty that one day soon the sun will shine again and someone worthy of you will enter your life. Have faith in your future.


Posts: 1468 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
84CF
Member
Member # 40112
Default  Posted: 9:59 PM, September 11th (Wednesday)

Packing up all of her things. I don't want her in my house and someone has to do it. She has so much clutter, so much. I don't understand why after all the horrific treatment, all the disrespect, I am so sad. I am beside myself with sadness -- sadness for what I know now was all a lie, all an elaborate hoax designed to use me and spit me out. She never truly loved me. She does not care. And yet I grieve. I grieve. I grieve.

[This message edited by 84CF at 9:59 PM, September 11th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 54 | Registered: Jul 2013
flup
Member
Member # 21259
Default  Posted: 11:36 PM, September 11th (Wednesday)

You, as well as the rest of us, were trusting persons. We happened to become attached to predators that took advantage of that trust.

Personally, I started running to get out of my head. Please don't drink too much, and please try and think that there are brighter days ahead, my brother. It's difficult to see that now, but this will be behind you one day - and you'll be better off.

In your situation, with the constant DDays, lying, and adultery, all her stuff would be on the front lawn - near where the garbage pick up is - she has until garbage day to get it, or it's gone to the dump.

It angers me to no end to see her treat you so poorly. She is sick, and if this has gone on this long, I'd be done. I live in a fault state, so in that instance, I'd gather all the evidence I could - maybe even hire a private detective - and get pictures or video for the hearings.


Me: BS 55
Her: fWW 50

D-Day #1: 12 Aug. 2008. WW's 2nd affair w/college teacher.
D-Day #2: 18 June 2009. Affair #1 with neighbor was fall of 2002 - while I was coping with the fallout from 9/11.
Still trying to R.
22 years married


Posts: 426 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: Ohio
84CF
Member
Member # 40112
Default  Posted: 4:54 PM, September 14th (Saturday)

Movers came yesterday afternoon to take away her things. So many things. An unbelievable pile of things. My house feels empty, but also clear. Nothing more hidden in drawers, in closets, in corners, in plain sight.

And yet, I still feel so, so sad. I am sad about the waste. I mourn the loss of what I thought we had, but because I don't actually know what we had anymore, that mourning is diffuse, confusing. I am focusing on myself, on putting one step in front of the other and continuing forward. Yet I am worried about her, which makes me both angry and bewildered -- bewildered because she does not truly worry about me, and probably never has.

Terrible, terrible waste of time, of energy, of life. And yet I continue forward, taking care of myself, of my business, the best that I can.

[This message edited by 84CF at 4:55 PM, September 14th (Saturday)]


Posts: 54 | Registered: Jul 2013
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 7:26 PM, September 14th (Saturday)

As I mentioned before, she has been waiting for you to do the dirty work; too cowardly to end it herself, she let you find out the extent of her adultery and passively waited for you to terminate the marriage.

Lord have mercy on the poor sucker she marries next. I doubt this woman has an ounce of compassion in her soul.


Posts: 1468 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 8:00 AM, September 15th (Sunday)

You are supposed to mourn the loss of what was and what was supposed to be---this is all part of the process.

There is no quick-fix, but I can say that you are on a far faster path to recovery than many of us. These may seem like shallow words of encouragement, but re-read this 3 months from now, and you will see what I mean.

It takes time and effort to recover from a loss like this. Currently, you are putting in effort on yourself, and time is elapsing. Even though you may feel at your lowest, believe me, you are on the right path. Things will get better. The sharp pain will fade a little more and more as time goes by, and if you continue with the effort on yourself, the progress accelerates.

Her items are gone from the house. No contact=No new hurts. Start doing things more for yourself--hobbies, exercise...whatever you want to try. I am not saying to forget the past, just to try not to dwell on it.

My brother is in the final stages of his divorce...they were married for almost 30 years. And although infidelity was not involved, he never saw the end coming---to him, he was totally blindsided. I believe the last quote she gave to him when they separated, was "I don't love you, I don't want you, and I don't need you". He couldn't believe that he was totally discarded, and although I am sure they had plenty of marital faults on both sides, he is still processing how someone he was with for over 30 years can just discard him...like he was never important to her.

Abandonment from our partner sucks. No doubt about it. And searching for "why" this has happened will drive you insane, because you will never know what was/is inside her head. That is why you need to focus on you. You are your own source to happiness.

Keep forging ahead.


BH-46
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 19(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 26yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 1869 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
84CF
Member
Member # 40112
Default  Posted: 11:15 PM, September 17th (Tuesday)

Gods, what a roller coaster. I was cool and calm all morning, then terribly sad all afternoon, now I am so fucking angry. I cannot believe that I fell in love with a fucking sociopath. How does anyone do what she has done and live with herself. And yet I read these boards and it happens over and over and over again. How do people allow themselves to be so cruel to people whom they are supposed to love and respect? I will never fucking understand it.

Posts: 54 | Registered: Jul 2013
k94ever
Member
Member # 11176
Default  Posted: 1:34 PM, September 18th (Wednesday)

84....we can't understand it because it's something we would never do.

I'm sorry this is all happening to you. But your life will get better.

{{{hugs}}}

k9


BS: 56
WS: 53
Betrayed: 23 years
Affairs: 14 (2 lasted 3 months. Rest were ONS)
WS died: 16 May 2011
Do not stay in your hurt forever. Choose to move out of it.

Posts: 6323 | Registered: Jul 2006 | From: Wisconsin
84CF
Member
Member # 40112
Default  Posted: 10:47 AM, October 21st (Monday)

Haven't posted in a while as I've been really trying to focus on healing and moving forward. I've been having a lot of difficulty in the past two weeks, though, dealing with the complete and utter lack of remorse. In some ways I'm improving, in others not so much. Insomnia has become more of a problem -- barely got more than an hour or two of sleep last night.

The unresolvable thought that keeps pulsing through my head is that it was easier for her to inflict all of this pain and then to abandon me and her entire life than just to be honest. I have to accept the painful fact that she would never just say: she does not love me, maybe never did. (Right up until the end she actually said the exact opposite.) But what I can't accept is how she has to have narrated all of this to herself, to her family, to her friends. Clearly she feels that she has no need to make amends, to try to make this right.

The dismissiveness, the utter lack of love and respect, is still cripplingly painful.


Posts: 54 | Registered: Jul 2013
angerisme
Member
Member # 37672
Default  Posted: 12:05 PM, October 21st (Monday)

I am so sorry this has happened. I can feel the pain in your words. I want to say this GENTLY and you must know that I too am married to a serial cheater. When I 1st found out I was going to be the reconciliation/forgiveness BS of all time...after all it was just a ONS...right? WRONG! he is bordering on sex addict, and cheating is the norm for him...not the exception. I believe you have more heart breaking episodes ahead. You will learn things about her that will let you know, you have been married to a stranger who is excellent in manipulation and lies but fails miserably in humanity. You will survive this...I PROMISE. You will survive, and you will be happier and strong when it is over. Serial cheaters suck the life out of their spouses and children. When you are finally done, you will not spend years mourning her, you will marvel at how bright the sun shines and how much energy you have suddenly discovered. Once I gave up and accepted my marriage (25 yrs) to a TOTAL stranger, I got busy planning my future and i now feel excited. Im filled with a lighthearted, stressfree existence but I paid for it with years of real misery. YOU WILL SURVIVE THIS. YOU WILL BE STRONG AND YOU WILL BE HAPPY AGAIN. I PROMISE.


If they cheat once and only show remorse when they get caught...GET A LAWYER! Dont waste 10 years only to learn you've been manipulated for a decade. Youth lost to betrayal is a terrible foundation for the rest of your life.

Posts: 75 | Registered: Dec 2012
angerisme
Member
Member # 37672
Default  Posted: 12:13 PM, October 21st (Monday)

As for "you will never get over this," I understand what that means. It means you will not be the confused, naive person who found comfort in her touch. HOWEVER, you WILL be happy again. you WILL be excited about life again. you WILL forget that she exists...and for me it was a big day in my life when I actually felt a tinge of happiness when I found out he had screwed up at work. I PROMISE IT IS VERY EASY TO DISENGAGED EMOTIONALLY FROM A PERSON WITH WHOM YOU ARE NOT HAVING SEX, AND WHOM YOU KEEP SECRETS FROM.

Once I began padding my savings accounts and stopped having sex with him I grew colder and colder. Now? Its like having to speak to a coworker whom you verry muc dislike. I am civil, and I attend to business, but it is sheer relief to get away from him. YOU WILL GET OVER THIS DEAR AND YOU WILL BE HAPPY AGAIN!


If they cheat once and only show remorse when they get caught...GET A LAWYER! Dont waste 10 years only to learn you've been manipulated for a decade. Youth lost to betrayal is a terrible foundation for the rest of your life.

Posts: 75 | Registered: Dec 2012
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 2:24 PM, October 21st (Monday)

84CF

Have you had any contact with her family since she left?

With the way she treated you have you had no reason to reach out to her parents to make them understand what she has done and ask them to help her???

Just curious.

HM


Posts: 670 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
84CF
Member
Member # 40112
Default  Posted: 2:38 PM, October 21st (Monday)

Contacting her family would take an enormous amount from me for tiny gains, if any at all. I must admit that I've been slightly surprised that they haven't reached out to me. I can only imagine what she is/is not telling them. The main reason that I haven't reached out, though, is self-preservation. They are notorious enablers and rugsweepers, who are frankly responsible for a lot of their daughter's fucked-up-edness. (Though I do not absolve her of control over her actions -- she chose this.) The bottom line is that I doubt they would do anything other than validate by inaction and willful blindness.

Posts: 54 | Registered: Jul 2013
84CF
Member
Member # 40112
Default  Posted: 2:35 PM, November 18th (Monday)

Well, a month since my last post and I feel like I'm slipping backwards. I've been in a similar pattern for the past few weeks: sadness and anger, with a little bit of light mixed in. She finally contacted me this weekend, however, about getting the rest of her things. She mentioned again wanting to renegotiate the financial split that we agreed upon months ago. Her selfishness combined with feigned sympathy designed only to make herself feel like she's covered the bases of sympathetic decorum has torn open all the wounds again. "I cannot express how sorry I am," she says -- yes you can! Say it and back it up with action, for gods' sake! Show some freaking remorse! Any sign!

And so today I'm finding it very difficult even to breathe. I am so sad and this is coupled with feeling so weak for not being able to stay angry and braced against all of the horrible ways in which she has treated me through all this. I just cannot believe how easily she has been able to discard me and her life with me and slip into a completely new life. The bottom line is probably just that it is painful to see her move on so easily, without feeling anything real for the damage that she has caused, able simply to say that her life with me is over -- oh well! -- time to move on to the affair guy. It simply means that I never really meant anything. What I thought was a wonderful part of my life has been a complete fraud. Never mind that she spent the summer telling me that she didn't even like the guy, that he was bad for her, that their relationship was not good. Never mind that she spent the summer telling me how much she loved me.

Last night, in the middle of the night, I felt the strongest urge by far since the separation in August to text or call her. I wanted to ask, "Seriously, do you feel anything at all? How can this not be hard for you? How can you continue to make these choices? These mistakes? How can you so willingly go back on every word you have said to me? Your three pages of self-written wedding vows? How can you just throw away our life???"

I didn't do it. I hope I'll be able to stay strong, but I feel weaker now than I ever have. I feel so horrible and it's getting harder rather than easier to find any comfort.


Posts: 54 | Registered: Jul 2013
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 4:54 PM, November 18th (Monday)

You need to appreciate that some people are incapable of love. They take but never give back. If a better deal comes along then they discard their current relationship and move on to 'better things'. The process goes on ad nauseam since there's always a more desirable deal around the corner.

Its no use communicating with her. She has no soul to appeal to; no heart, no compassion; just a devotion to her own interests and needs. Just hold yourself together until the sun shines again.


Posts: 1468 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Artemisia
Member
Member # 40564
Default  Posted: 6:50 PM, November 21st (Thursday)


Hey 84, want to let you know I just read your whole thread, and I'm so sorry for what you're going through. Let us know how you're doing.

I went through something similar a few months before you. Not sleeping and not eating were the worst. Not sleeping includes the spinning mind in the middle of the night. I can't believe I can say this, but it does get better. I really thought it might not. But knowing that doesn't help when you're there. I remember being just SO EXHAUSTED all the time. At the very, very end of my rope. I didn't even know where the end of my rope was until this experience.

I remember also feeling like I was going backwards. You're not. There is no backwards or forwards. This is some non-linear shit we're doing now, but we ARE HEALING. This horrible, searing pain? That's what healing feels like, unfortunately. It's not soft and peaceful. The bone is being broken and reset, and it hurts like hell.

Keep posting, let us know how you're doing.


Posts: 84 | Registered: Sep 2013
84CF
Member
Member # 40112
Default  Posted: 1:06 PM, December 9th (Monday)

Thanks, Artemesia, and everyone else, for reading.

I feel that I'm hardly in the "just found out" category anymore (although in truth 6mos is still not a long time), but I need to keep posting. Seems as though it's about every three weeks or so that the difficulty becomes really oppressive and I return to this thread. Mostly just trying to document and otherwise maintain 180/no contact.

She moved the rest of her things out just before Thanksgiving, which was intensely painful. I packed her things because I don't want her in my apartment, but this meant having to deal with all of her things that remind me of her and of us: our wedding things, the pictures from years of our life, framed and otherwise, which I had set aside months ago but otherwise not addressed. It rips me apart even writing about it.

On Thanksgiving day, she wrote with the subject line, "Thank you," and said that she was so grateful to have me in her life, that she loves and misses me. No past tense, although I'm guessing that this was what she was trying to convey. In what sense, I scream into the void, am I at all in her life???? Seriously, what the fuck could those words possibly mean to her? I know she's trying to make her life into something liveable, trying to rewrite our story and her own into something less sordid. She's trying to perform "loving care," I guess. I'm sure she's now telling herself and anyone who will listen that this was all meant to be, that she loves this other guy, that all will be happier, etc. It's such crap. And yet no one calls her out on it. No one can even see it. Our mutual friends do nothing, say nothing. She just proceeds as if completely abandoning our life together is part of the natural course of things that people do from time to time.

And today I'm finding it difficult to breathe.

I feel so humiliated that I miss our life together. It wasn't real. She was never the person I thought she was. And yet I grieve so much. What is with that, truly? Makes little sense to the rational side of me.


Posts: 54 | Registered: Jul 2013
meaniemouse
Member
Member # 10798
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, December 9th (Monday)

84CF,
I've been on this site a really long time and reading here is always painful for me, even though it's been a really, really long time since my first D-day.
I know you are hurting, thinking the time you spent with this woman was a lie, that you look like a fool, and that you wonder why, after all that, you can still hurt so badly.
Just because she didn't value you and your relationship doesn't mean the time you invested and the feelings you had for her weren't real and worthwhile and that it didn't count. Just because other people don't seem to be holding her accountable doesn't mean they are right. And most definitely it doesn't mean that she was. Because in no way that any rational human can describe, was what she did anything but horrible.

The thing is--the only people that are going to "get it" are people who have walked a mile in your shoes. People like us on SI. See--when you get cheated on, (and I think it's a lot worse for men) all of a sudden, people who have never been where you are, and are pretty smug in thinking that they never will be, start looking at you like you MUST have done something wrong because they believe the whole "it takes two to make a good marriage" (and it is totally true), but it really does only take ONE person to blow a marriage to smithereens. Because regardless of whatever else is going on--the cheating spouse, with no consultation at all to her/his faithful spouse, forever changes the rules in the relationship.

People who haven't been cheated on will never, ever get it. They will tell you to get over it, to let her go, to get mad, to get even, to get on with your life, that you're better without her. Or they'll say they can't choose sides, they don't want to judge, they don't want to get involved. They don't understand your grief--hell no one has died, so why all the mourning? They just don't get it.

It sucks, all of it, and there is just no getting around it. The only way out is through, (which is an Emerson quote, I believe), but it is true. You may never get over it but you can get past it, you can learn from it and you can go on to live an amazing life. Even if you can't imagine that life right at this moment. Surround yourself with people who are totally on your side. Let yourself feel whatever feelings you have. Be good to yourself, be your own best friend. Give yourself the gift of time and know that it will get better. You will be better. You are no longer connected to the person who did the worst thing that a spouse can do. I say that because when I went through it--I thought that if he actually killed me it would have been less brutal.

You have a chance for a do-over. The end of your story hasn't been written yet. You are older and wiser, maybe a little banged up. But you are in charge. Don't let this woman steal another minute of your life or your sunshine. She doesn't deserve it.


Act as if what you do matters. It does. William James

Posts: 2056 | Registered: May 2006 | From: Midwest
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 2:40 PM, December 9th (Monday)

The worst thing to cope with is the rejection; the judgement that you fail to qualify; just not good enough. Really that isn't the case. your wife's values are corrupt and she puts little value on kindness, decency, compassion, trust or loyalty. The new guy may have an impressive lifestyle, body or social position, but they matter little when trying to make success of a relationship.

You have to climb out of the pit you have been cast into. Time to deliver harsh judgement on your STBX and see her for what she is. Destroy or give away all things connected with her and start the painful process of moving on. You can do it; mourn a little less everyday and find a friend to talk over your pain and offer new insights. A good friend is worth all the antidepressants in the world.


Posts: 1468 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Topic Posts: 78