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User Topic: Should I separate when WH seems remorseful?
sparklezombie
Member
Member # 40095
Default  Posted: 12:48 PM, August 19th (Monday)

Most recent DD (July) was finding out that WH was signed up at plenty of fish and was trolling for women to sleep with while on business travel for three weeks. This is not even remotely the first time it's happened. When I found out, I told him I wanted to separate and was moving to our old house, but tenants don't leave until end of Sept. So we're stuck together for now.

He says he doesn't want me to move out, that if I do I can't come back. He says he wants to work on our marriage and doesn't see how we can do that if we're apart. He says that he's sorry, he wants to change, he'll agree to computer/phone monitoring, etc. (agree to it but it was my idea, he didn't volunteer it).

I'm so torn. This will be the 3rd separation for us. He's cheated most of our 11 year marriage. He's never been truly sorry before, only said he was, and I took him back. Now I feel like my fog has been lifted. I'm seeing an IC. Told him he has to see one. He reluctantly agrees.

He says he wants it to work, but I just don't know if he ca n really change. My IC says he's likely narcissistic and that this personality trait doesn't often change. I feel like I'm trapped and being held hostage if I stay. Yet, I'm seeing him say the things I always wanted him to say and do some things to show that he wants to R. I feel like he's actually trying to work on things, on our marriage. But our marriage wasn't the reason he kept cheating - his own issues are the reason.

I'm just so torn now. Has anyone been in situation similar? did you stay or go and did you regret it? I just don't know what's best now and feel like I can't think clearly.


BS: Me
WH: Husband
One daughter - 22 months
Married 11.5 years
2.5 false R's.
Status: Divorcing.
You can't pick up a turd by the clean end. Time to flush the toilet.

Posts: 247 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Somewhere on the Eastern Seaboard
silverhopes
Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 1:20 PM, August 19th (Monday)

Take your time. It's OK to not know right now and need time to think.

Even if he is remorseful, maybe it was a dealbreaker. Especially if he's cheated for so long. Remorseful or not, cheating is IT for a lot of people, and it is OK to end the relationship.

If you're wanting R, if you have even a slight feeling of wanting it, take your time to carefully decide one way or the other. But if you know in your heart it's over, that's OK too. Just wanted to say that first.

Second, remorseful. Keep your eyes open on his behavior. See if he's consistent. Saying words is one thing - look for his actions to speak for him right now.

But our marriage wasn't the reason he kept cheating - his own issues are the reason.

Absolutely right.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.

Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.


Posts: 3901 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
Beautifulmind
New Member
Member # 38361
Default  Posted: 1:29 PM, August 19th (Monday)

I do not have experience with your type of "situation" per say, but I do see some things in your post that are alarming to me.

He says he wants to work on our marriage

Really? How hard?

He says he doesn't want me to move out, that if I do I can't come back

Sounds like as long it's under HIS terms. That's not showing remorse for HIS actions.

Told him he has to see one. He reluctantly agrees

See above

Yet, I'm seeing him say the things I always wanted him to say and do some things to show that he wants to R

He's "SAYING" the right things but his actions don't seem to be backing that up for you. You said he is doing "SOME" of the things that shows he wants to R. Why not ALL?

Remorse is needed for R to attained. Just by reading your post, that isn't something that seems to be jumping out at me as I read it. The fact that this has occurred multiple times in the past, I would expect he would "get it" by now. IMO, it doesn't sound that he does.

You don't have to make that any decisions right now, if you don't want to. With your past dealing with him, I doubt anybody would blame you if you did take off. On the other side, you could sit back and see how it goes with IC and MC and get a better idea through his ACTIONS and less on his words.

Either way, I feel for you and want to wish you the best of luck.


Me - BH (41) Her - WW (41)
OM#1- Her Boss (EA 9 mo/PA 4 mo)
OM#2 -Family Friend (EA/PA - ONS)
Married 15 yrs / together 21
DS's - 11,8,5
Too Many DD's TT's to death
(1st *8-28-12)
Both IC,MC - Trying to R

Posts: 39 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Midwest
OneFootForward
Member
Member # 39136
Default  Posted: 2:04 PM, August 19th (Monday)

All I see is WH wants to keep things the status quo. BeautifulMind hit the nail on the head over, and over and over again.

What tangible things has your WH actually done? I am not saying what he has promised to do, what he has agree to do, what he might do if the tides are right and the moon is full. ACTUALLY DONE.

If he has actually done nothing, then you must decide if you are actually going to do something. You said it yourself...

He's cheated most of our 11 year marriage.

You also said...

Now I feel like my fog has been lifted. I'm seeing an IC. Told him he has to see one. He reluctantly agrees.

You feel, but I don't see any results. How many times before did you FEEL he was going to change and then didn't. You are suffering from emotion abuse and one of the classic signs of abuse is thinking the abuser is going to change. The stats don't lie... most abusers do not change.

I would do a hard 180 (see the Healing Library to the upper left) and move with a purpose, come hell or high water. Go see a lawyer. Put the wheels in motion. Take the power away from him and put it back in your hands. Let him know, in actions not just words, you are done being the victim. After he cleans up his act and demonstrates honest remorse, only then do you think about going back.

You may find once you have broken the cycle and cleared you head from his manipulations you may not wish to go back. OR you may realize he has really changed. But you will be in a position of power over your life to make a decision not controlled by him or outside influences.

(((Sparklezombie)))


Me: 42 BS
Her: 41 EMA
Married: 16 years
D-Day#1: 04/17/13
D-Day#2: 05/8/13
Children: 9,5 (girls)
Om: High School Flame
"Marital problems doesn't make someone a cheater just like financial problems doesn't make someone a thief"

Posts: 71 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Mobile, AL
sparklezombie
Member
Member # 40095
Default  Posted: 2:09 PM, August 19th (Monday)

We had MC last week. He told our counselor that if I were more emotionally and physically (sexually) available to him, he wouldn't have the desire to cheat. But in the next breath, he would say that he doesn't blame me and that he takes responsibility for his cheating and that he knows its wrong.

He also said in MC that he didn't really see the point of going to IC, that he knew why he does what he does. MC said she doesn't think he really knows and I said I wouldn't even consider staying unless he went. So he's going this week. But it did take him 2 weeks to even make the stupid appt and I had to ask about it before he finally did it.

Last night was when he said that he would do what it takes. And he's being really sweet and helpful around the house. But I don't know if I care and I don't know if it's real. Just because he wants to change doesn't mean he can easily change. I do think he wants things to be different, but it's not that easy. I just don't know if I want to keep trying, but I feel like I have to since he says he wants to keep trying.


BS: Me
WH: Husband
One daughter - 22 months
Married 11.5 years
2.5 false R's.
Status: Divorcing.
You can't pick up a turd by the clean end. Time to flush the toilet.

Posts: 247 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Somewhere on the Eastern Seaboard
sparklezombie
Member
Member # 40095
Default  Posted: 2:20 PM, August 19th (Monday)

the 180 is hard, I won't lie. He gets upset and starts to cry and it's like watching a puppy get hit by a car on the highway, except that I'm the one hitting the puppy. That's how bad it feels. I've read stuff on Dr. Google about emotional abuse and it just doesn't seem to quite fit me I guess. He doesn't yell or scream or hit me. He doesn't outright threaten me. He will give me the cold shoulder and ignore me when we fight and I do think he's trying to manipulate me into staying in the home.

My IC says I'm being emotionally abused and it's hard to see it I guess since I'm living in it. Everything that happens makes me feel like I'm the bitch and I'm doing something wrong by wanting to leave.

in late 2011, he started dating without telling me (joined match.com). I found out the same month I found out I was pregnant and I moved out immediately. He said he wanted me back, but it was a while before he stopped seeing OW. Then we fought in MC about how WH couldn't still be friends with OW Then recently, around the ashley madison/plenty of fish episode, he friended her on FB. I guess I'm saying this to say that it's never really stopped. It's been one episode after the other. I'm tired, I don't want this. But yet, it's so freaking hard to leave. I also am a Christian and firmly believe in keeping my marriage vows. So I also have this religious issue/guilt about me choosing to end a marriage when he says he wants to stay married. Hope you know what I mean. And we have a child together. She's a year old. I would rather D while she's young than when she's older.

Also, he said that if I leave, I can't come back. That we're through. And that he wouldn't want to see me or our daughter ever again. Seriously, so now if I leave, I'm the reason that she doesn't have a Dad? That's what it feels like even though my head says that's stupid and that it's his fault. Sorry for rambling. It's just a lot to work through.


BS: Me
WH: Husband
One daughter - 22 months
Married 11.5 years
2.5 false R's.
Status: Divorcing.
You can't pick up a turd by the clean end. Time to flush the toilet.

Posts: 247 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Somewhere on the Eastern Seaboard
OneFootForward
Member
Member # 39136
Default  Posted: 2:45 PM, August 19th (Monday)

We had MC last week. He told our counselor that if I were more emotionally and physically (sexually) available to him, he wouldn't have the desire to cheat.

Poppycock! He is rationalizing and poorly. Does that mean if you have an accident and are unable to have sex with a year, he would jet for that year? When you get all better he would be back to your side. He is tossing asside that whole, "sickness and in health, for better or for worse"... to excuse actions.

...he would say that he doesn't blame me and that he takes responsibility for his cheating and that he knows its wrong.

What else can a kid do with his hand in the cookie jar. He put IT there and got caught?!

He also said in MC that he didn't really see the point of going to IC, that he knew why he does what he does.

Crackheads say the exact same thing! Then they take another hit.

the 180 is hard, I won't lie.

I can only imagine. I did not have to do this. However, I did lay the foundations and my spouse knew I would do it. I saw a lawyer. I saw a MC (who is our pastor). She knew what would come.

I also am a Christian and firmly believe in keeping my marriage vows.

Do you know the ONE time it is allowed to have a divorce in the Bible? An affair.

"Because Joseph her husband was faithful to the law, and yet did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly." Matthew 1:19

You see, his has already divorced himself from you in deed. He just has not had someone sign off on the papers.

I'm a Christian and I am trying to R with my spouse. That does not mean I am going to stay in a relationship with a spouse who continues to cheat. Either repent and have remorse, or bye!

Also, he said that if I leave, I can't come back. That we're through. And that he wouldn't want to see me or our daughter ever again. Seriously, so now if I leave, I'm the reason that she doesn't have a Dad? That's what it feels like even though my head says that's stupid and that it's his fault. Sorry for rambling. It's just a lot to work through.

He is playing the guilt trip card out of desperation. If he would throw your child in front of the bus to stop you from leaving then I think you can see where he is. This is not the act of someone who is remorseful. He is emotional taking you hostage by point the gun at your child. I have two words for you: Lawyer Up! Get Out! Run Now!

I was in law enforcement for 5 years (I was an MP in the Army). I saw many, many broken homes under the stresses of deployments. When someone starts to use a child as a bargaining chip the time is neigh. What will he bet with when you pull that off the table? Desperation compounds upon desperation. Some how the stress must be relieved: controlled or uncontrolled. Don't be there during an uncontrolled release, it is called snapping for a reason.

Speaking from experience and what you have said... Seek an out while you can.

(((sparklezombie)))

[This message edited by OneFootForward at 2:46 PM, August 19th (Monday)]


Me: 42 BS
Her: 41 EMA
Married: 16 years
D-Day#1: 04/17/13
D-Day#2: 05/8/13
Children: 9,5 (girls)
Om: High School Flame
"Marital problems doesn't make someone a cheater just like financial problems doesn't make someone a thief"

Posts: 71 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Mobile, AL
sparklezombie
Member
Member # 40095
Default  Posted: 4:05 PM, August 19th (Monday)

He is playing the guilt trip card out of desperation. If he would throw your child in front of the bus to stop you from leaving then I think you can see where he is. This is not the act of someone who is remorseful. He is emotional taking you hostage by point the gun at your child. I have two words for you: Lawyer Up! Get Out! Run Now!

Thank you. I need to hear this. It is desperation and it's horrible to watch and participate in. I wish I hadn't told him I was leaving until the day before so he couldn't do this to me.

I also was talking to my counselor earlier this summer about how I wished he would cheat again so I would have a reason to leave, have an out. Well, he did by getting on those sites and texting, meeting with women, even if it didn't lead to any sex. But it is still so hard to leave. I hate this feeling. I hate feeling out of control. I'm sure its the co-d and the emotional abuse, but that doesn't seem to make it easier. I really appreciate everyone's thoughts on it. It definitely helps to get advice from an outside person.

As an aside, my dad was an MP in the AF for over 12 years, including undercover work in OSI. He has some bad PTSD and I can understand why. The stuff he went through and dealt with was crazy.


BS: Me
WH: Husband
One daughter - 22 months
Married 11.5 years
2.5 false R's.
Status: Divorcing.
You can't pick up a turd by the clean end. Time to flush the toilet.

Posts: 247 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Somewhere on the Eastern Seaboard
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 4:50 PM, August 19th (Monday)

Wait..what? He said if you left...because he was caught cheating..AGAIN...then he was done being his child's father?

OMG. THIS is abusive. Towards you AND your child. he is going to punish his own child because of HIS bad behavior?

This man is not remorseful. He is saying he is..but his actions show otherwise. He's helping around the house more? That's not remorse. Is he answering all of your questions without getting angry or blaming you? Is he,on his own,seeking out His "why" and figuring out what is broken in him..and how to fix it? Is he honest with you at all times? transparent? Accountable for his time when he isn't with you? It's easy to say "Im remorseful." It's another thing entirely to BE remorseful.


BS(me)41
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,9
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Happily Reconciled.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7298 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
solus sto
Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 5:23 PM, August 19th (Monday)

I'm not seeing anything in your description that is remotely similar to remorse.

Furthermore, if he is a narcissist (and really, usually this is conjecture, as most with personality disorders of this nature are not amenable to being tested---that I got my husband to do so still amazes me), he is likely unable to form real empathy or remorse.

As others have mentioned, this is not a decision you need to make today, or tomorrow, or even the next day.

But honestly, if a man told me,

He says he doesn't want me to move out, that if I do I can't come back.
and
And that he wouldn't want to see me or our daughter ever again
, I would be very, very concerned.

Being helpful around the house does not equal remorse.

He doesn't GET it. He may not be capable. Time will tell.

It might be a good idea to think about how much time you're willing to give.


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 52, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8541 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
I think I can
Member
Member # 17756
Default  Posted: 5:58 PM, August 19th (Monday)

None of this seems remorseful. This seems selfish and manipulative.

I'd move in with a friend for a month.


I'm not the winner, I'm the prize.

Posts: 8807 | Registered: Jan 2008
sparklezombie
Member
Member # 40095
Default  Posted: 6:06 PM, August 19th (Monday)

Thanks for the insight. I really do appreciate it. It's so hard to see and think clearly. He has said a couple times that if I leave he doesn't want to see me or daughter every again, it's too painful and also that I would ruin her by saying bad things about him and he didnt want that. He's also repeatedly asked for a DNA test every since I got pregnant. I said fine but he never followed though. And I've never even been with another man. Ever.

Finally I went o dr on Monday for a bladder issue and dr thinks I might have ureaplasma which is an sti. I am waiting on bloodwork but doc started me on rx anyway. I told wh and he didn't think it was a big deal at all. Like it doesn't even matter that he gave me a freaking sti. And this sti can cause infertility and stillbirth. I was diagnosed with unexplained infertility and our daughter was very nearly stillborn and the docs never found out why. Well maybe this is why. And he acted like I just told him something mundane, like it doesnt even matter! Guess its not important to him. Guess my health and that he gave me an sti isn't important. I still can't wrap my mind around this one.

[This message edited by sparklezombie at 6:08 PM, August 19th (Monday)]


BS: Me
WH: Husband
One daughter - 22 months
Married 11.5 years
2.5 false R's.
Status: Divorcing.
You can't pick up a turd by the clean end. Time to flush the toilet.

Posts: 247 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Somewhere on the Eastern Seaboard
Jospehine85
Member
Member # 35971
Default  Posted: 6:10 PM, August 19th (Monday)

He says he doesn't want me to move out, that if I do I can't come back.

That's not remorse. That is not caring about you. That is abuse. That is bullying. That is unacceptable.

You should have laughed in his face when he said that. I am sure you told him if he slept with other women he couldn't have you. Look how seriously he took that.

(((sparklezombie))) FTG. Move on now while you are still young. Take a look in the divorce and separation forums. Also look in the NPD thread of I Can Relate.

What your WH is doing is hoovering you back in. This is all part of the abuse cycle.

End it now. Get out of this toxic relationship and go find someone capable of a healthy one.


Me - BS 40s
WH - 50s
4 Kids
Dday May 2012

Posts: 830 | Registered: Jun 2012
Topic Posts: 13