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User Topic: Question for BS
babbs
New Member
Member # 40368
Default  Posted: 12:24 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

it's been 4 months since my BS found out I cheated on him twice once in the first year the other about 6 years later. He is justified in thinking it's all been a lie that I never loved him and that I am a serial cheater. The truth is I'm not I felt the guilt while I was cheating but was going through a lot that he doesn't fully believe is the reason I cheated. He says he's no longer in love with me Im heartbroken. I have not and will not speak to or contact AP again. This has all taught me a powerful lesson and I will never betray my spouse and children again. What would help you believe your spouse is truly trust worthy. What actions can I take to prove to him I love him? I hate what I've done to him he doubts himself and his self esteem is shattered. My sweet happy go lucky guy is devastated. I want to help him. Please tell me what would have helped you in the months Post DDAY. Were in IC Ive given him access to all my media. changed my number and email and have had NC with either of my OM.

Posts: 50 | Registered: Aug 2013
Tred
Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 12:36 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

what would have helped you in the months Post DDAY

The truth. Not having to find out everything on my own. No lies of omission. A complete timeline. I take it he discovered your affair, you didn't confess?


Married: 17 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3741 | Registered: Dec 2011
babbs
New Member
Member # 40368
Default  Posted: 12:42 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

No i didn't confess and he did find out everything on his own. I was a mess after he found out I didn't know what to do. I didn't want to lose him. Looking back I should've done that differently but it's done and he was very angry about it. Still comes up.

Posts: 50 | Registered: Aug 2013
Girlietoo
Member
Member # 38719
Default  Posted: 12:53 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

Yes the truth. But I also need(ed) a lot of reassurance that he loves me, never loved her. Doesn't think about her and he regrets everything. I need him to show true remorse and bring me close to him, reassuring me, when I doubt his love for me.

I still struggle a lot- when he kisses me I wonder if he kissed her the same way. It helps when he tells me that it was awkward and uncomfortable, not at all like when he kisses me, the woman he loves.

The most frustrating thing for me is when he gets defensive or says things like "do you want to get better"?. I know it is difficult for him to see me in so much pain that is his cross to carry and I don't much appreciate having any guilt being placed on me. This is all him.

Have you asked your BS what he needs. Perhaps if he can't verbalized it (that is difficult for me) he might be able to write to you. If he doesn't know, tell him you will be patient and be ready when he does.


Me- 40
Him- 47
March 9, 2013- the day my heart died

Posts: 234 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Canada
Deeply Scared
Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 12:57 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

babbs...

General is primarily for BS's, I will move your thread to the WS forum where BS's can still reply.


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 196391 | Registered: May 2002
1ost0ne
Member
Member # 40202
Default  Posted: 12:58 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

Babbs, You have to make him whole. You need to be the wife he deserves.

Start with the Truth. Sit down and write out a sincere letter of apology confessing what you did to him.

Second find big ways to show you love him. Show up at his work with a great picnic, brag about him on Facebook, throw out all of your ugly clothes, make sure you are always attractive around him, finish your own honeydo list for him, etc.

It takes time. You are asking the right questions and reading your other posts, you seem to be on the right path. My WS seems to be still in denial.


“The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them.”
― Maya Angelou

Posts: 83 | Registered: Aug 2013
Sad in AZ
Member
Member # 24239
Default  Posted: 1:01 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

First of all, you can stop this:

but was going through a lot that he doesn't fully believe is the reason I cheated.

'Going through a lot' is not a reason for cheating; you have to be absolutely honest with him. Tell him what you were really feeling at the time that you cheated. Dig deep inside yourself for the answers.

Unfortunately, there is no guarantee that you won't lose him. For some BS, the A is too much. However, for you to have any chance at R, you have to be upfront and honest-with yourself and your BS.

For the rest, you have to talk to him to find out what he needs. No one else can tell you. Try reading the Healing Library for insights into how the BS feels.

Good luck.


I solemnly swear that I am up to no good.

Posts: 19792 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Upstate NY
babbs
New Member
Member # 40368
Default  Posted: 1:03 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

He tells me he doesn't know what he needs. That he is checked out and that he's going to protect himself. He tells me I can't blame him for not trusting me. That he will open up once he sees I'm trustworthy but this isn't productive as I have no idea what that looks like to him exactly.

Posts: 50 | Registered: Aug 2013
babbs
New Member
Member # 40368
Default  Posted: 1:04 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

oh oh sorry!!!!

Posts: 50 | Registered: Aug 2013
Smedley
Member
Member # 33446
Default  Posted: 1:23 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

The things I wanted:
* Full Disclosure - I got disclosure a little at a time. When this happens....you believe nothing - EVER
* No contact at all
* Communicate to your spouse what he means to you, and what you don't want to lose
* Be patient - the timeline from here will be choppy. You need to understand that empathy is a trait that is required right now


Married 25
Her WS - 48
Me BH - 50
3 Kids
DDay 8/25/11 - learned of multiple instances with other man which has spanned most of my marriage

Posts: 93 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: VA
Later
Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 1:29 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

it's been 4 months since my BS found out I cheated on him

Still comes up.

Yeah, at 4 months out I would expect anything and everything to still come up. Unfortunately, for him it's probably constantly running in the background.

Have you read the thread, "what every wayward should know?" If not, I highly recommend that you do.

ETA the link: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=324250

That really should be stickied.

[This message edited by Later at 1:33 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
Lucky2HaveMe
Member
Member # 13333
Default  Posted: 1:33 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

Get thee to IC. It was a requirement for R for me. He needed to do a lot of work to dig down to his core to repair himself. As he worked on himself, he was able to give more of his authentic self to me and our M.


Indian wisdom says our lives are rivers. We are born somewhere small and quiet and we move toward a place we cannot see, but only imagine. From Tending Roses

Posts: 5990 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: WNY
sailorgirl
Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 1:35 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

What helped me was when WH stopped being defensive. He took full responsibility for the A every time in every way.

When I said "How could you?" instead of giving me a bunch of excuses, WH started saying, "It was a horrible thing to do. It was the worst and most painful thing I could have done to the person I love. I am so sorry."

When I asked, "Why?" instead of giving me a bunch of excuses, WH would say, "I don't know yet, but I am working so hard in IC to figure it out. I will never stop working to be a healthier, better person. You are going to get the best husband possible from now on."

He completely stopped defending himself, trying to get my sympathy, explaining etc.


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
JanaGreen
Member
Member # 29341
Default  Posted: 1:37 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

What would help you believe your spouse is truly trust worthy. What actions can I take to prove to him I love him?

What helped me the most was for him to answer my questions with a lack of defensiveness. I had been spying on him long enough to know that he was lying to me a lot, and I knew when he was lying, thanks to my PI skills. Defensiveness was a dead giveaway.

Also, my H didn't have an affair (story's complicated, in profile) but rather a period of really shitty behavior, including a drunken ONS and some bad boundaries with "just-friends." I didn't doubt that he loved me, but I DID doubt that he respected me. Hearing him tell me that he NEVER thought I was crazy (as he said many times), admitting that he was just trying to deflect my questioning, was huge.

Also, he bought a car last year without my consent. A brand-new red corvette (midlife crisis much?) After he extracted his head from his ass, he offered to sell the car, as it triggered me. I told him it was up to him, I wasn't going to tell him what to do. Eventually he traded in my old car and the crisis-mobile to buy me a brand-new shiny SUV. That was a very large gesture on his part - he got rid of the car that he really did love because it upset me, and bought something nice for me in the process. That kind of gesture goes a long way.

Deleting anyone who bothers him off your facebook, opening up your electronic devices (which you already did), letting him know if anyone tries to cross boundaries with you - etc. etc.

Also, it helps when he thanks me for staying with him, tells me he feels lucky to be with me, glad he has the chance to make it up to me, etc. That helps a lot.

ETA: Sailorgirl and I were sharing a brain there for a minute!

Good luck!

[This message edited by JanaGreen at 1:38 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)]


We're both in our 30s. One awesome 4-year-old daughter.

Posts: 6537 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Somewhere in the South
GabyBaby
Member
Member # 26928
Default  Posted: 1:44 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

What would have helped me:

1. Complete disclosure from the beginning. Keeping details only protect you, not your spouse. Finding out additional details later is like being stabbed repeatedly, but weeks apart. You will NEVER heal.

2. Complete transparency and open behavior from WS. He was good at giving lip service to "wanting our marriage", yet refused to give up his (various) email passwords, names of his APs, etc. He would tell me he was working late, but would then in fact, go hang out with friends.
If you tell your BH that you're going grocery shopping, you better be at the grocery store - and not for 5 minutes before heading off for an hour to hang with friends.

3. Stop cheating! It sounds stupid, but you've already cheated twice. How do you exepct him to believe that you're sorry when you cheated once in the beginning, saw the anguish he went through, then did it again? It is going to take a lot of time on your part to rebuild that trust that you completely destroyed.

He will get frustrated. He will get angry. That's his right.
Remember - you created this mess. You have to put on the big girl panties and do what it takes to clean it up.

I wish you and your BH all the best.



Me - 42
SorryInSac - WH#2 - 47. DDay 7/12/14
Married 4yrs, together 7yrs total

DD(21), DS(18, PDD-NOS)
5 Furkids (3 Dogs, 2 Cats)

WXH (serial cheater, 12+ OW)
Legally married 18yrs, together 16.5yrs

Note: I edit often for typos/clarity.


Posts: 6064 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: California
kickboxer
Member
Member # 39858
Default  Posted: 1:48 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

It would help me a lot if my WH would take the initiative...install a keylogger on his computer/phone, install software to protect boundaries online (one of our boundaries includes no porn)...on his own, without me having to ask for it. I feel like I had to request access to everything when he should have just written down the usernames/passwords and given them to me immediately.

I really don't know how long it will take to restore trust. My husband went out for milk last Friday, and I texted him with another item to pick up, but he didn't respond and didn't answer his phone. I was worked up into a tizzy, trying to find my shoes and ready to go hunt him down when he walked through the door, milk in hand. He hadn't felt the phone buzz in his pocket. How long does that go on? I really don't know, but it's a horrible, sinking feeling on this end in the meantime.

Repeated affirmations that you love him, you love the life he has worked hard to build for you, you do not desire anyone but him. Repeated words of gratitude that he hasn't given up on you. Lots of praise -- tell him how handsome he is...no man could ever look better in your eyes. Mention you like his hair or his glasses, and tell him how amazing he looks just sitting and watching TV.

I also need complete honesty. My WH has refused to give me the timeline I've asked for. He says it doesn't matter and he can't remember anyway. He doesn't feel the details are important, whereas I feel they're absolutely paramount before my heart can heal.

In the end, recovering from betrayal is not about your needs (the WS)...it's about his (the BS).


BW - 42 (Me)
WH - 39 (2 ONS, 6m EA)
Married 13 years, 3 children
DD: 7/13/13
Status: Rugsweeping, I guess.

Posts: 248 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Somewhere Out There
babbs
New Member
Member # 40368
Default  Posted: 1:55 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

I should have clarified. He found out about both affairs on his own within weeks. We are in IC and I also see a psych that is helping me deal with depression.

I gave H all passwords cut out contact with a friend who knew about affair I dont have FB account and I don't go out with friends etc. The find my phone app is enabled on my iphone so he could see where I'm at anytime he wants. I no longer do overnights for work and I don't spend much time texting anyone so he doesn't have to wonder what Im texting. I'm trying to be as empathetic as possible but I am scared of what he will ultimately decide. I feel as if Im standing on the edge of a cliff and he's deciding weather to push me off or help me back to safety. I never get defensive... honestly I have taken full responsibility for the affair from day 1. I apologized to his parents and spend time with his family or whomever he wants to visit etc regardless of whether they know or not of my A.


Posts: 50 | Registered: Aug 2013
strongerdaybyday
Member
Member # 40264
Default  Posted: 2:14 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

The truth is I'm not I felt the guilt while I was cheating but was going through a lot that he doesn't fully believe is the reason I cheated.

Your reason for cheating doesn't matter. He's rightfully hurt and pissed. You've destroyed his trust and betrayed him.

BUT...

That doesn't mean you can't reconcile. Please avoid becoming defensive, my WH said defensively (after me losing it about him cheating) "well, maybe if you didn't argue with me so much!" and later realized he was wrong to say that; but it was said and it hurt.

Rebuilding trust takes time. You have to be honest and completely transparent; if you're both truly committed to making it work, it will. He just needs time.

Good luck - I hope it works out for you.

[This message edited by strongerdaybyday at 2:18 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)]


Me-BW Him - WH
Married 6 years, together 13+ years
D-Day Summer 2013
children-3
If it is what it is then what is it?

**If I edit I'm correcting a typo!**


Posts: 380 | Registered: Aug 2013
ThoughtIKnewYa
Member
Member # 18449
Default  Posted: 2:19 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

That he will open up once he sees I'm trustworthy but this isn't productive as I have no idea what that looks like to him exactly.
For me, I needed to see complete transparency and the willingness to dig deep and find out why these things had happened in our M. It takes a LOT of time and consistency. He doesn't want to open up to you because he's afraid you'll hurt him again. The fact that he'll even consider it, in the future, is worthy of hope.

I'm trying to be as empathetic as possible but I am scared of what he will ultimately decide. I feel as if Im standing on the edge of a cliff and he's deciding weather to push me off or help me back to safety.
As gently as I can, I'd like to say that what you describe is exactly the position you put him in, except you DID push him off the cliff, blindfolded. Empathy would be recognizing this and understanding how it feels to be pushed like that.

Is he here at SI? If not, would you be comfortable referring him here?


Posts: 11392 | Registered: Mar 2008
aesir
Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 2:26 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

He tells me I can't blame him for not trusting me. That he will open up once he sees I'm trustworthy but this isn't productive as I have no idea what that looks like to him exactly.
Unfortunately, there is no way to purposely demonstrate this. The secret is to actually be trustworthy over time, and open enough in whatever you are doing that he can see you are being trustworthy. It also has to be consistent for long enough that he can believe it is a pattern and not an act.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
babbs
New Member
Member # 40368
Default  Posted: 2:30 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

I understand. I know I did this to both of us... I will wait for him to feel that I'm trustworthy. He doesn't know that he can trust his instincts as he had NO idea I was fooling around. He didn't feel much of a change in me so he thinks that there is more to it. He has referred to himself as my "steady larry" and that I have my fun elsewhere :( I know he's justified. There are no words to describe my remorse and horror at what Ive done. The thought that he doesn't believe I love him is too much to bare. One day at a time is what will have to be.

[This message edited by babbs at 2:32 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 50 | Registered: Aug 2013
foundoutlater
Member
Member # 32900
Default  Posted: 2:33 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

What has been said above helped me. It really helped when my W finally got it – she could understand that only she could see what goes on in her mind. I can only see actions, and her actions gave me good reason not to trust. She understood and demonstrated she understood by taking responsibility for the loss of trust, she read, went to IC and came to accept that her actions, over a long period of time would be required to rebuild that trust. She also understood it changed things in our relationship, that proactive transparency was required.


Your beliefs don’t make you a better person, your behavior does.

Posts: 1108 | Registered: Jul 2011
babbs
New Member
Member # 40368
Default  Posted: 2:53 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

Ugh these last 4 months feel like an eternity. I can't imagine not being in a better place sooner than later. I'll be patient I'll wait for him... I'm tired and lonely and wish I could at least get an authentic hug from him. Touch is such an important thing for me and I'm starving here. I will not fill this void elsewhere I'm just devastated as well. I miss him so much I miss us the ay we were how uncomplicated our life was. He's typically the funniest guy in the room but these days he's just a shell of his former self. I know I did this to him and it makes the guilt feel even worse. I realize this isn't about me and that he is the one that needs to be nurtured as I'm the A-hole... Still, I need him I need my friend.

Posts: 50 | Registered: Aug 2013
ThoughtIKnewYa
Member
Member # 18449
Default  Posted: 3:04 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

(((babbs)))

It's rollercoaster and it takes a lot of time.


Posts: 11392 | Registered: Mar 2008
EtTuBrute
New Member
Member # 39792
Default  Posted: 3:34 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

Hello babbs,

Thank you for asking your questions. It shows effort on your part and your willingness to at least attempt to make your marriage the way it should have been to begin with.

First,

I cheated on him twice once in the first year the other about 6 years later...that I am a serial cheater. The truth is I'm not.

These statements contradict each other. Perhaps you were trying to say something else as it is obvious there is serial cheating happening here?

Second,

He says he's no longer in love with me.

It is a true feeling at the moment. Feelings change, so there is hope in still saving your marriage and keeping your family together if you are willing to put in tremendous effort and if he is willing to respond to it by not being bitter forever. Recovery takes two to five YEARS in most cases by what I've read.

What would help you believe your spouse is truly trust worthy?

Nothing can guarantee that my WS or any other person on the planet is completely, truly trustworthy. People trust others based on past actions and spoken words, so if someone has a history of stealing and lying, it can be assumed that person will steal and lie again in the future. The past cannot be rewritten; however, the future is not in stone and has yet to be seen. Spouses trust each other as an extension of themselves, so it's almost like being betrayed by yourself when affairs or abuse happens.

What actions can I take to prove to him I love him?

First, walk the walk, don't talk the talk. Anyone can say they will NEVER __________ (insert phase here). Work on yourself to be the person you would want to be married to - assuming you would want to be married to an honest, loving, caring, considerate spouse.

Second, set boundaries - no more friendships with men, acquaintances are fine as long as you keep it as such. If you begin to think you want more from that person, then you must get away from that person as you now know the dire consequences of affairs on marriages.

Third, no more lying EVER about anything to your BS or to yourself. Tell the truth about your childhood, your past relationships, horrible things in the past, what you think now, and what you expect in the future with your BS. No fake orgasms. If something bothers you, say so. Tell your BS the deepest, darkest, craziest secrets you have - whatever they are: drug use, homosexual relationships, criminal records, sexual fantasies, etc. Stop being afraid. It's time to lay all your cards on the table. You have nothing else left to lose and everything to gain by doing so. Do not lie by omission either. If something happens that you know concerns your spouse, it must be told to your spouse. It's not lack of trust ruining his love for you / your marriage. It's lack of HONESTY. Be transparent. Hide nothing.

These same things go for your BS as well.

Also,

I have not and will not speak to or contact AP again.

Was a NC letter approved by your BS and mailed by your BS to your AP?

NO SOLICITING: SI.com does not allow soliciting of any kind, publicly OR via Private Message. This includes threads with links to other relationship sites and charities and self serving voting sites, social networking, etc. If you have a product, service or Website you believe to be in the interest of SI.com, please contact an Administrator.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 3:42 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)]


BW 41 WH 47 LTA/LD: EA 9 yrs / PA 14 days; 4 Kids: 7,5,2,2 OW: XGF 45 DDAY: 10-8-12 Broke NC 4 times, no known OW response.Began R 7/19/13
If you can't spot the sucker in the first half hour at the table, then you ARE the sucker. - Rounders

Posts: 32 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: United States
babbs
New Member
Member # 40368
Default  Posted: 3:48 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

Et Tu Brute

Yes I did send a letter that H saw me send to OM. I see how contradictory my first statement was regarding serial cheating. I meant that I never cheated before we were married or even on people I dated prior to DH. After the 1st affair I felt horrible and wasn't planning on doing it again. The second affair was an escape from the mundane reality we were living in. 2 kids 18 months apart feeling overwhelmed PPD yada yada yada all sounds like crap I know but its true. H thinks its about me not wanting him but it was the life I was living I didn't want I wasnt engaging well with my kids I was resentful I was a crappy mom and I knew it. The thing is I didn't know how to want them... it sounds horrible I didn't know how to tell my H I don't like being a mom Im stressed out and Im not attached to DS at all. Once the affair came out and I saw it all being ripped away I woke up. I talked to a therapist I'm on meds and I'm able to focus I was in a state of constant daydream. I'm patient with my babies now and my heart aches to see them . It's different I want to be a great mom a great wife and I'm worried I set it all on fire. I apologize in advance if I come off as defensive I'm truly being transparent here I have no reason to make up anything on this board as it's anonymous. I'm getting defensive:/ it sux to be thought of as a liar when you are bareing your soul to H. This is where my mind was at. When I'd hang out with OM I wasn't the shitty wife and mom I was just another woman and I didn't feel criticized. Granted it wasn't real but it kept me from unraveling at home. I wanted to cut the affair off but I was scared at what would happen to me without the "escape".


Posts: 50 | Registered: Aug 2013
20WrongsVs1
Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 4:29 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

It sounds like your BH has detached. It's healthy for him to focus on his own needs.

While he takes the space and time he needs, you focus on healing yourself. You say you need your BH, and you can't imagine not being in a better place soon. Gently, babbs, that's not your decision to make. Steady Larry may decide the M is over. Build up the strength to stand on your own, for yourself and DC. Let go of the outcome and be better for yourself.

Getting defensive when people say we're wrong is human nature. Do you get defensive during conversations with BH?


fWW: 42
BH: 52
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1037 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
musiclovingmom
Member
Member # 38207
Default  Posted: 4:29 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

The second affair was an escape from the mundane reality we were living in. 2 kids 18 months apart feeling overwhelmed PPD yada yada yada all sounds like crap I know but its true. H thinks its about me not wanting him but it was the life I was living I didn't want I wasnt engaging well with my kids I was resentful I was a crappy mom and I knew it. The thing is I didn't know how to want them... it sounds horrible I didn't know how to tell my H I don't like being a mom Im stressed out and Im not attached to DS at all

Very gently here, these are all just circumstances. They did not cause your affair. I have 3 small children. The youngest 2 are 18 months apart. I suffer from mild depression. I find almost no fulfillment in being a SAHM. My H works long hours (70-80/week) and many of those are out of state. The only adult contact I have is with the teachers at my daughter's school and my mother-in-law. I am attention starved (and quality time is my primary love language). However, I have never even thought of an affair as a way to resolve these issues (even before my H had his it just wasn't an option for me). There are deeper issues here. Search for, find and work on fixing those things. That is what I've asked my H to do and the thing that has helped me the most during our first year of recovery.

Posts: 990 | Registered: Jan 2013
babbs
New Member
Member # 40368
Default  Posted: 4:30 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

No I don't he's never said that I have been.

Posts: 50 | Registered: Aug 2013
babbs
New Member
Member # 40368
Default  Posted: 4:32 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

Music mom do you think that it's an excuse I made myself believe? I feel full heartedly that is the reason for the affair.

Posts: 50 | Registered: Aug 2013
babbs
New Member
Member # 40368
Default  Posted: 4:33 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

I was quick to reply but will think about what you said. I truly want to get to the bottom of this.

Posts: 50 | Registered: Aug 2013
musiclovingmom
Member
Member # 38207
Default  Posted: 4:40 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

I guess what I'm saying is those circumstances might have pointed you in that direction, but there are lots of other directions you could have gone (ie - getting the kind of counseling help you are now). Why did you choose an affair instead of something healthier? That's where I would encourage you to start. Speaking as a BS, my H started out with the surface circumstances too and I never felt safe. If he made that choice once, why wouldn't he just make the same choice again when things got hard again. He's found some deeper, very personal, things that allowed him to compartmentalize his life and justify his actions. I'm betting if you are exceedingly honest with yourself (which is HARD) and do some deep digging, you'll realize why you chose an affair instead of one of the many ways to deal with what you didn't like about your life.

Posts: 990 | Registered: Jan 2013
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 5:07 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

No i didn't confess and he did find out everything on his own. I was a mess after he found out I didn't know what to do. I didn't want to lose him. Looking back I should've done that differently but it's done and he was very angry about it. Still comes up.

He isn't angry and it doesn't still come up. At this point, life comes up but the affair is his constant companion. It never goes away. It's in every waking thought and probably dreams (if he can sleep). Anger would probably be an improvement to what he's feeling. He's destroyed.

The first time my ex hit me my world was fractured. The rage, betrayal, disbelief, pain, hurt. I'd find myself talking to him then this almost disassociation would hit as my brain would remind me of the fact I was talking to someone that did something so fucked up like we were cool.

Normally when someone does something like that it's an event. You aren't with them daily, seeing them, eating with them, sleeping with them. You can heal because they're no longer in your life. This is different so on top of the trauma there's an added war that starts with yourself...your core fighting "you" to run!

I'm not telling you this to hurt you. I'm a WS too. A premeditated one at that. I wanted my ex to feel the way your BS feels. Let me just tell you how that worked out. Didn't.

You live your love. You live your remorse. You don't just talk about it. You learn to self sooth. Carry your water. Understand you can not expect anything from him. Any thing he gives you right now will feel like a further betrayal of himself, I'd imagine.

Dig. A huge question would be why didn't you trust your husband? Why didn't you reach out for him when you were struggling? That's what you both signed up for. Right there in the contract. It's not for better and even better. It's, "help, I'm fucking drowning here and need a lifeline".

Ppd is no picnic. Had a friend damn near hospitalized with it. It's no shame. Your body and brain aren't a supporting team. Did you talk to your doctor? We have a responsibility to ourselves and our loved ones to make sure we're healthy. When we see problems we can't just register the check engine light has come on. We need to be on that shit or parts start failing.

It's good he's detached. It's the best thing he can do. Now, get healthy and do what's needed to become a safe partner. He'll see that. Those things are pretty obvious. When sustained over time they're reassuring.

Hang in there.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
babbs
New Member
Member # 40368
Default  Posted: 5:24 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

He knew I was in a bad place in fact he said, "I didn't feel it was my place to tell you that you were being a bad mom" I told him it was... I think we were both in such a bad place stress wise that we didnt know what to do . I think he was hopeful it would go away. My therapist said the affair was a result of my depression and was what I did to feel better. I can't tell you how different I feel now that I'm on an anti depressant. I'm not hoping for a bail out card for this... I am trying to help my H see that it's not due to lack of attraction for him. As he put it he thinks he's not "my cup of tea" You are right I should've done 100 things differently I shouldve gone to my doctor I shouldve screamed from the rooftops that I wasn't well. I wasn't ready to say out loud that I felt having kids was a mistake that I wasn't cut out to be a mom that I was pissed at every decision that had led me to where I was today. I wasn't ready. That's all I can say. I am now today I see my counselor on a regular basis and there are many things that I am looking at about myself that I haven't, ever. I'm never getting in a mess like this again when DH and I separated briefly after all this came to a head I realized what I wanted in life. Im actually secretly glad he threw me out on my ass because I was forced to be alone. I missed him and my babies I didn't sleep I was a nervous wreck. I had panic attacks that made me think I was about to have a heart attack. I've had a change of heart I have I know it sounds nuts and BS but I have. I love DH more than anything and my babies are at the forefront of my life now. I was a piece of crap that didn't deserve the good man I had. I do now and I loved him everyday we were together I was faithful to him more than I "wasn't" if that makes sense. I know I had an affair and that trumps what Im saying about being faithful but I wasn't on a constant prowl I wasn't. Im learning that I don't handle change very well at all and I want to be better for all of us but especially f or myself. I won't lose him I won't that's not an option.

Posts: 50 | Registered: Aug 2013
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 5:42 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

I won't lose him I won't that's not an option.

Actually, it is. Affairs end marriages. They're designed to.

Babbs, him knowing you were in a bad place is not you going to him and asking him for help. I know when my friends and SO are struggling and let then know I'm there but I don't take control of their lives. It's up to them to come to me for what they need.

Sure, the affair is what you did to make you feel better. Why did you choose that way to feel better. Why not something else? A hobby, exercise, climbing, kick boxing, riding. Pain is a very real part of life. How we cope with it is learned. When did you find people fixed pain? What about another fixed you? Those are struggles that need focus.

This is a choice you've made twice. It's more than depression. If you dismiss it and link it to depression how does any of the affirmations in your post make sense? How can you be so certain? You just will choose to never be depressed again?


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
babbs
New Member
Member # 40368
Default  Posted: 5:54 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

Where did I learn people fix pain?

I never thought of it like that. I've had a bad childhood it could stem from there. I don't want to keep blaming Im trying to figure this out too.... My parents were neglectful not present violent verbally abusive.... I was married once before to a posessive and jealous guy. I have a revolving door of friends as I retreat as soon as they disappoint me. I don't like being close to people as I feel misunderstood and mistreated.


Posts: 50 | Registered: Aug 2013
babbs
New Member
Member # 40368
Default  Posted: 5:56 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

I have felt misunderstood by H on occassions I feel like I did when I was 10 and told I was a bitch and POS. My mother basically stopped being a mother to me at about that age as I chose to go with my dad instead of her. When they got back together she still hated me and was not available to me as a mother.

Posts: 50 | Registered: Aug 2013
babbs
New Member
Member # 40368
Default  Posted: 6:00 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

The A were men that I felt at the time saw me for the best part of me. The part that wasn't ugly and full of warts. They told me I was sweet and good not defensive and guarded. They said I was fun and lovable. All things I can be when I feel someone has deserved the opportunity to see the real me. Otherwise I have no problem telling people to F off or simply disappear if I feel they see me as my FOO did. Oh wow. Im a hot mess.

Posts: 50 | Registered: Aug 2013
LA44
Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 6:02 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)


Where did I learn people fix pain?

from babbs
I never thought of it like that

I LOVE when people have that moment and are brave enough to write it!

Keep working at this, babbs. Lots of good people here to help you out.

UO - you are soooo good.


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2109 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
babbs
New Member
Member # 40368
Default  Posted: 6:02 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

My therapist has been working with me to not put so much emphasis on what others think of me. To give freely without wanting/expecting anything in return. I so frequently feel inadequate and rejected. I think the OM were people I used to build me up when I was especially low.

Posts: 50 | Registered: Aug 2013
babbs
New Member
Member # 40368
Default  Posted: 6:04 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

Thank u LA44. Im sitting here bawling my eyes out I needed to hear that.

Posts: 50 | Registered: Aug 2013
uncertainone
Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 6:08 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

Oh boy. I can relate to much of what you have experienced. I have a detachment from my childhood shit. Difference is, those I learned I could trust (with as much as I let them in) I recognized as treasured gifts and kept close.

Coming from such trauma can actually have some upsides. Primary being you learn very early that those that are supposed to care for you the most won't, or if they do they really suck at it. That's actually a pretty valuable lesson.

You also find your strength. That's where I needed my real work. Honing that skill and learning how to use it and when to sheath it.

My bet...and I could be waaayyyyy off, is you have a bubble sea of rage just under the surface. People have stopped existing for you as individuals and just became caracitures lacking all nuance and frailties but disappointing at best and dangerous at worst.

Your children and their needs were sapping from a depleted pool and I can imagine you being somewhat resentful for any already scarce resources drained.

That rage may be your start. I had boat loads of it. Still have a few reserves.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
babbs
New Member
Member # 40368
Default  Posted: 6:12 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

A+ uncertainone! I see many people as dangerous. I've been taking care of myself for as long as I can remember. My babies have been dealing with a resentful mommy that had not much to give

Posts: 50 | Registered: Aug 2013
babbs
New Member
Member # 40368
Default  Posted: 6:17 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

H knows about the rage i feel and wants me to forgive my FOO. I want to I want to move on but I harbor so much rage. I just don't know how to let it go. The disappointments haven't ended either. They have morphed into new crap they do. I moved a few states over just far enough to complicate their ability to see me. I barely talk to my mom and when I do I just want to hang up the phone. I mostly wonder if I love her at all. H has a great family and when I fell in love with him I fell for all of them. Now everyone knows what I've done and theyve been supportive but I don't believe its sincere which pus me on watch patrol and I'm just waiting to be disappointed;/

Posts: 50 | Registered: Aug 2013
Mrs Panda
Member
Member # 27303
Default  Posted: 6:38 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

Hi babbs

I am a repeat offender, years apart, like you. Thing is, you can't just white knuckle this shit and promise it will never happen again. because we have to change certain things , some big some small, about ourselves or it will happen again.

It will happen next time we are bored or sad or feeling unloved or whatever. And there is a shiny OM ( new penny) who sees us as beautiful and funny and whatever we need.

This is your Husband's fear. This is my husband's fear.

Self- esteem, coping strategies, FOO issues, boundaries, justifications.
These are the core issues.

You need to become a safe person for your BH. You need to dig deeper than sadness and boredom. Because next time you feel sad or bored or resentful , you need a new way to deal.


Me-41 FWW Him-45BH
M 13years. Reconciled.
DDay#1 Nov 2008 (OM2)
DDay#2 Aug 2009 (Confessed to OM 2001)
"Those who believe in telekinetics, raise my hand." -Kurt Vonnegut

Posts: 1970 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: The SouthEast
Sal1995
Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 6:50 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

The second affair was an escape from the mundane reality we were living in.

I don't know if you said this to your BH, but be careful going there. Because that's the reality of married life and there's very little he can do to change it. We can take nice vacations once or twice a year, have a weekly date night, hire babysitters, whatever. But the fact is that real life for most of us involves mortgages, bills, groceries, full-time jobs, laundry, rushing around taking the kids from here to there, etc. That's just reality, and it's that way at least 90% of the time. A real, committed relationship can never compete with the fantasy escape aspect of an affair, where there are no bills, no crying babies, and nothing really except for stolen moments, sex, and ego strokes. Nor was it meant to.

And that's exactly the way your life with the OM would be if you had to deal with each other around the clock every day. Just throw some stepchildren into the new reality mix. I wouldn't emphasize to your WH the mundane nature of your life together unless you want him to give up hope because he can't change day-to-day reality.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciling


Posts: 1325 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
babbs
New Member
Member # 40368
Default  Posted: 7:15 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

I meant the mundane life associated with 2 little kids.not all the other stuff but i knowwhat u mean. You are right though i do need to keep my head straight and not look for approval elsewhere.

Posts: 50 | Registered: Aug 2013
LA44
Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 8:16 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)

You are welcome. We are in a different boat.... but still damn hard to paddle with one oar!

Take care of yourself, babbs.
LA


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2109 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
slater13
Member
Member # 39008
Default  Posted: 11:43 AM, August 21st (Wednesday)

Honestly Babbs, If I were counseling your BH, I would suggest he file for D. It is good that you are woking on yourself and seem to be addressing your issues, but in reality for most of us two times is one time too many.

If I were in his place I don't think I would ever be able to trust you again. I would always be checking on you and that is no way to live. Good luck with your recovery.


The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character

Posts: 155 | Registered: Apr 2013
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 11:54 AM, August 21st (Wednesday)

The second affair was an escape from the mundane reality we were living in.

I saw this and had to respond. As a BH, what you call mundane reality IS my escape. There are few enough people in this world that I/we can trust or depend on so it's an escape from that shitty world that I look forward to at the end of the day. No matter how *mundane*, it's supposed to be safe.

My family, not my FoO, but the one I have voluntarily chosen, is my escape. Now that has been proven to be false. Where does your BH turn now? What are you doing to prove it's *safe* for him to *escape* again.


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2542 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
StillStanding1
Member
Member # 40144
Default  Posted: 2:51 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)

Hi Babbs,

You've been getting some great counseling here and it seems like you are having some "aha" moments. I see that as good. At least you are trying and you want to work it out. That is a very good place to start. Follow the advice all these wise souls have been giving you. As BS's, we have lots of ideas on what our WS could do or do differently to make us feel safe and help our recovery.

Understand this is a LONG journey. Your H has been traumatized in the worst possible way. You will need to work on this for years. But it can get better. You seem to understand that you are the one who needs to do the work. Again, I see that as good. Whether your road ends up bringing you together or not, you need to do the introspection and self-analysis for your own healing. You don't want to bring that same baggage to your future relationship with H or anyone else. So, keep doing the hard work. It will pay off.

BTW, I wanted to suggest a quick read for you. "How To Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair". Maybe ask your H to read it and write in the margins on things that speak to him. I read it first and made my notes and gave it to my WH. Hit him like a 2x4, but he stayed up all night to read it and then couldn't sleep. It sounds like you're ready for that kind of "therapy". It will give you a lot of insight into how this is affecting your H. He will also likely feel a little better when he reads that what he is feeling is "normal" and is explained to you by someone other than him.

Wishing you luck and courage on your journey!


Me: 40s BS, Him: 40s WH
M 21 yrs - 3 teens
LTA = 2+ yrs, Dday = 2/10/13, he moved out, he officially moved back in 1/25/14 and our work continues...

Posts: 632 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: MidWest
Topic Posts: 51