User Topic: Reconciliation when there is no justice?
Member # 38650
Default  Posted: 11:21 AM, August 21st (Wednesday)

Is that really possible? I am on the road to d. But this is something I have struggled with from day one. For me I could not see it lasting without resentment creeping in. What was the reparative justice that got you to a place of wholeness to r?

Posts: 242 | Registered: Mar 2013
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 11:26 AM, August 21st (Wednesday)

If you need justice, I don't think you can reconcile. There is no justice. You find acceptance in that fact and move on from there.

The closest you can get, I have found, is finding hope and peace in the changes in your former wayward spouse. Their work, their effort, their remorse, their utter anguish at the destruction they caused. I respect him for this work and it is a defense against resentment.

Him WH
2 ddays in '07
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6549 | Registered: Jan 2011
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 11:27 AM, August 21st (Wednesday)

There is no justice. None. I think we have to learn to let go of the resentment.

Not sure how to do that yet...

FWH 45
4 kids
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling?

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.

Posts: 7679 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
Member # 36555
Default  Posted: 11:33 AM, August 21st (Wednesday)

I've struggled with this a lot. However, love is a choice and if you're going to love your spouse you're gonna have to love them and let go of what they did. Sure, it's not going to be easy and there's a rough path ahead, but it is doable. According to many, it takes at least 2 years of R. I'm looking forward to year 3.

BS - Me 43 WS - Her 41
DDAY - June 2012 (found the texts)
DDAY2 - Next Day (found out who) EA
TT- till 9/2012 (some PA)
Married 20yrs. 2kids
Status: in careful R. Sometimes spinning our wheels

Posts: 1397 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: USA
Member # 15902
Default  Posted: 11:37 AM, August 21st (Wednesday)

Reconciliation when there is no justice?

It is possible if you learn to accept that change is inevitable and nothing stays the same forever. This holds true even for our spouses that promised to always be faithful.

You also took vows of "for better or worse". Now you know what "worse" is referring to. R is also a time for testing your resolve to protect your marriage. Whether to stay or leave, there is no right or wrong answer.

Me: BH, Her: FWW - Long Term EA/PA
d-day: June 25, 2007
Married 30 years, Reconciled

Inner peace begins the moment you choose not to allow another person or event to control your emotions.

Posts: 5695 | Registered: Aug 2007
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 11:43 AM, August 21st (Wednesday)

As with a lot of other struggles I have faced in life - I've learned that I have to let go of the idea of "fair."

At first it seems that there is a horrible imbalance in the relationship as our spouses got to go out and "have fun" and left us to all that faithful-business and whatnot. The thing is, if you look at it from a karmic scale then you are still very much on the fuller side.

Try not to look for justice/punishment so much as improvement. Crazz is a better husband and father than he was before DDay, and I'll take that over him suffering for what he has done any day of the week.


Cherish those who seek the truth but beware of those who find it. - François-Marie Arouet

Posts: 17838 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
Member # 18429
Default  Posted: 11:48 AM, August 21st (Wednesday)

There is no justice in a good marriage. I can't deny my H affection because he didn't take out the trash, that is wrong. My H can't not take the kids to school because I didn't make him lunch, that is just wrong. There is no room for tit-for-tat in a healthy relationship. And after all, healthy is what we're all in the R forum looking for right?

DDay - Dec '07
Me - BS
Him - FWS
Us - Committed
May 18, 2010 - I forgave him fully!
"Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction." Isaiah 48:10

Posts: 3859 | Registered: Feb 2008
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 11:49 AM, August 21st (Wednesday)

My wife had sex with another man 2-3 times a week for more than 10 months. If justice was a factor, we'd be going through a divorce. The problem is that divorce would be "unjust" to our children, and being separated from them more often than not would be unjust to me. So justice in most cases like this really is not achievable.

I understand the sentiment, but if R is the goal then justice can't come into play. And if you are divorcing your spouse (as you indicated)...there's your justice!

Me (BS)-45, WW-43
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
M - 18 years, 4 children

Posts: 1451 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 12:02 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)

41+thankful, hugs to you. I think we signed up around the same time trying to make sense of the ultimate betrayal.

I don't think justice comes into play here. That is for the court room. This is a matter of the heart. I now know that I will never be able to draw a straight line from what my fWH did to having it all make sense, fall into place. It just won't and I only came to accept that last week as a matter of fact.

It's been 8.5 months for us. I have seen his remorse,seen his determination to repair and know that he is a better man, a better husband and father.

I am chosing to let go of my resentment every day. And hey, I would have had to do this even if we went our separate ways.

If this is the route you go, try reading a bit from Affairs/repercussions of infidelity by emily brown. She has a good passage about good endings mean good beginnings.

I wish you well

Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2444 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 12:03 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)

The real justice is seeing the look in their eye when they have that lightbulb moment realizing that they whored themselves out for cheap validation.

The pain they caused themselves is way worse than any justice that could come from from my hands.

BS 40
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2629 | Registered: Aug 2012
Member # 32869
Default  Posted: 12:04 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)

Me too. I'm personally of the mindset that what goes around, come around. I supposed some may call it karma but I think it is basically the result of cause and effect. Actions have consequences and they often have ripple effects far beyond what we see.

I don't believe that there is a "get out of jail free" card for cheaters or their APs. Those that don't make amends and atone for their destructive choices they are doomed to repeat them because they have not learned from them. Which means their deeds will eventually catch up with them at some point.

And yes, Chicho, very well said. Justice may just boil down to them having to look at themselves in the mirror.

[This message edited by sable at 12:07 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)]

I'm the BW. M 10+ yrs, 1 child. Trying to R
DD 1: 7/18/11 Sexting/EA, caught before it went PA. Met OW#1 on AM
DD2: 5/31/13 - 6/1/13 2-Day PA with OW#2. Claimed she was a therapist and knew he was married.

Posts: 159 | Registered: Jul 2011
Member # 38650
Default  Posted: 12:12 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)

Thank you all your responses give me something to think about. I was asking because my WH is asking for 1 year and is offering a post nup. I think about it for my dd (4). I just don't know that I could without resentment. I don't want to punish him but at the same time i don't think that i could love and care for him as i should. Thanks again, please keep us in your thoughts and prayers.

Posts: 242 | Registered: Mar 2013
Member # 39670
Default  Posted: 12:13 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)

I also struggle with the fact that in this situation there is no justice, nothing is fair. WH and OW did the crime, but I am paying for it. But, instead of demanding justice, I am trying to get to a place where I will accept the injustice and move on.

I told WH that the ONLY justice in this would be divorce, but do I want "justice" or do a want to heal and fix my family? It's kind of like Dr. Phil's famous question, "Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?"

Boy, I sound so healthy, don't I? HA, keep in mind this is my goal, I am no where near there yet. The fact that OW is having a great summer KILLS me. This hasn't affected her AT ALL. Meanwhile, I'm a complete disaster and will be for a long time to come. Most definitely not fair.

Me, BW forty something, DD & DS,
Married to WH (49) 11 years, together 16
D-Day 6.8.13

Posts: 620 | Registered: Jun 2013
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 12:23 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)

41at- My fWS also begged for another chance and asked for a year. Thinking of my kids, I figured a year was the least I could do. I hoped for and expected her to fail. And for the first 10 months she did. She had that moment that I mentioned at about 10 months after dday and our path changed.

I am grateful everyday that I gave it a year. And I am even more grateful that within that year she actually got it.

BS 40
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2629 | Registered: Aug 2012
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 12:27 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)

The real justice is seeing the look in their eye when they have that lightbulb moment realizing that they whored themselves out for cheap validation.
Love that, Chicho.

I am one that struggles with the whole justice thing, too. I agree that you have to accept the fact that there will be no justice if you want to have a healthy reconciliation.

If you have gained a great marriage in reconciliation and it continues to be so, I don't feel that I would allow that resentment to creep back in, it just wouldn't be there. KWIM?

BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson

Posts: 9798 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 12:53 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)

I'm not sure about justice. There would be nothing he could do to ease the pain of what happened anyway, and I had an affair myself first...

but consequences, yes. I regret not enacting some consequences - like kicking him out or something - but I understand why I did that.

Looking at yourself in the mirror? I truly believe that he looks at himself and thinks, "well if she hadn't of done what she did I wouldn't have done what I did." and lets himself off the hook. I think the shit sandwich was too big for him to chew so he had to act out.

I don't know how some BS live through this. They are the spouse with the moral high ground but I bet that doesn't mean much to them when they're trying to pick up the pieces of themselves after a betrayal. At least not at first.

If a wayward is truly truly remorseful, they'll get their justice. Digging through all that crap, FOO issues, everyone hating you, that's not fun. But, it's the only way out. I just don't think many waywards really do this. I'm still not there myself. If I was, I'd have a little more understanding and humility for what my husband did....

his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

The conditions we face do not define us. They remind us of who we are and who we want to be.

Posts: 5262 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
Member # 39801
Default  Posted: 7:11 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)

If a wayward is truly truly remorseful, they'll get their justice. Digging through all that crap, FOO issues, everyone hating you, that's not fun.

I've thought of this as well.
The question is are you looking for your own justice or justice for your WS.
You make this situation worth it by how you act. If you get your issues fixed and can move on (through R or D) with a clear conscience that you've taken the high road-that is YOUR justice. And knowing that you were faithful to your marriage even when the chips were down and you really did have justification to invalidate those vows.
The justice for your WS on the other hand is quite different.
If you D, then you release the debt and allow life to pay the karma to him/her. That's why D seems like the only "fair" option. It seems fair because you don't have to keep score anymore, it's not your battle. You leave it to karma.
If you are in R, justice is served differently. If R is healthy and successful the justice is that your WS fully realizes the harm they have done to you, your family and themselves. If they are capable of realizing justice they will be served it tenfold. It will be evident in their eyes, their actions, their voice, the way they hold you and the way they strive to become worthy of the life they threw away.
If they are not capable of realizing justice it will become evident with the passage of time. They will never get it, never apply the lesson. In that case, I truly believe it's a lost cause, and the only option is the BS allows life, once again-to become the great equalizer by taking themselves out of the picture.
Sorry if that seemed esoteric, I tried to explain the way I feel, but it is truly complicated!

I cannot be responsible for another's personal growth.
DDay#1 of a "cheatillion" 4/1/13
Divorce final 11/04/13

Posts: 452 | Registered: Jul 2013
Member # 29816
Default  Posted: 8:00 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)

Interesting that you posted this, as I was just thinking about justice today too. Maybe not justice so much as accountability; it seems like XH and I have piled up our losses during this mess, including the loss of our marriage, while OW (from what I can see) hasn't missed a step. I just don't think you should be able to contribute to so much heartbreak without paying the price.

So I guess I agree that at the end of it all, there is no justice. Part of the price of R is accepting that and still being able to move on. It's not easy.

Me: BW-42
Ex-WH: 34
Married: 6 years
DDay #1: 10/5/10, one week before our daughters 4th birthday
D official 2/23/11
DDay#2: 10/20/12, after 8 months of false R
OW: Delusional, stupid whore; OC officially XH's
In R

Posts: 1355 | Registered: Oct 2010
Member # 30434
Default  Posted: 9:07 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)

This was a big struggle for me until the two year point when acceptance started finally kicking in. I was still in pain and began to realize justice would not take away the pain. Acceptance and forgiveness takes away the pain, along with a remorseful spouse.

WW 47 FOO Issues
DDay 11/09 Coworker
High School Sweethearts
Married 06/91
8 months TT
Sons 19 and 14
Recovery is constructing a pyramid of inference from which to see clearer.
The process involves using the reflexive loop.

Posts: 777 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Ches
Member # 40317
Default  Posted: 9:43 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)

I felt the same way for a long time. At times I still do. I HATE the fact that we were in false R for a short time, but on the other hand, I think it was a little sweet justice for me. Showed WS the true person MOW was, not the butterflies and fairy tales she showed him the first time around. Don't get me wrong, she still said all the right things and was sweet and told him she wanted to be with him...but after finding out so much negative stuff about her and not believing it...only to go back to her with new eyes...he saw the disgusting world he was putting himself into. He saw the lying, manipulation, selfishness that he didn't see before *in her*. That was a wonderful gift to me (of course I didn't see it that way), because he realized what he had at home.

Me: BS
Him: WS
Married: 17 years
2 children
2 DDays

Posts: 251 | Registered: Aug 2013
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 9:48 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)

There is no "justice", the best you can hope for is "just us".

Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.

Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
Member # 30079
Default  Posted: 10:04 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)

Justice lies within. Knowing YOU didn't trade yourself, your morals, your integrity. My wife looks on the mirror everyday and sees the injustice of trading herself for a cheap form of validation.

D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10).
No life should be passively relinquished due to the toxicity of others and taking steps to protect yourself may very well be the most important steps you will ever take.

Posts: 1908 | Registered: Nov 2010
Member # 40317
Default  Posted: 10:09 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)

I got sidetracked and posted before I was done. :eyeroll:

What I wanted to leave my post with, was that for me, "justice" was my WS realizing the horrible thing he had done and realizing *who* he was doing the horrible thing with.

It also helped me that living in a small town, her and her husband's underground lifestyle was completely outed for what it was. Not to mention she lost *everything* from it too. While they are back in their own reconciliation, they had major debt before they separated; I can't even imagine what debt they have now.

So, for me, I'm getting justice on both ends even though an outsider might not see it that way.

Me: BS
Him: WS
Married: 17 years
2 children
2 DDays

Posts: 251 | Registered: Aug 2013
Member # 39380
Default  Posted: 11:09 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)

You can get justice in your own way, kill them with kindness and show them that you are the bigger, better person.
In my case my fWH and the OW were so starved for attention, they couldn't see straight. When I talked to the OW over the phone, I was as nice to her as I could be, and I told her that, in order to get the answers I needed. They both claim that neither one initiated it, that "it just happened". I told my H that I wasn't going to get revenge but I do expect him to be the H I deserve. Letting them know that they're actions weren't going to kill me, that they're sad little A wasn't going to dictate my future and that living and having a good life won't end with my M will hopefully show them that they're destructive behaviors will leave them sad, lonely and even more broken... Instead of me.
You shouldn't act like nothings wrong but do things that make you happy, be a little selfish and dont lower the bar for anything. Good luck

[This message edited by DoneWithLove at 11:10 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)]

BW: Me (24)
FWH: Him (24) Jlaz1988ws
Together 11/12/06
2 sons, ages 5 and 1
Married 9/29/12
EA turned PA with OW/ coworker for 2- 4 weeks
D day 4/20/13
TT 4/20/13 - 7/30/13
"R" 5/3/13

Posts: 191 | Registered: May 2013 | From: The mitten state
Topic Posts: 24