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User Topic: 92 years old
Undefinabl3
Member
Member # 36883
Default  Posted: 1:40 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)

And possible breast cancer.

She's the only grama I have left - and while we are not blood, I have known her most of my life.

I dont know what one does for a 92 year old. Do they even give the option to treat?

I remember a woman with lung cancer on my other grama's ward who was almost 90 fighting lung cancer like a champ - chemo, radiation, the whole 9 yards at almost 90.

Not really sure what else to say. She is so active, so healthy, if you were to look at her she looks like maybe 80's....but this, this is scary.


Me: 31 MH
Him: 37 MH
~Some days are better then others~

Posts: 1617 | Registered: Sep 2012
jo2love
Moderator
Member # 31528
Default  Posted: 1:43 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)

(((Undefinabl3 & grandma)))





Posts: 30754 | Registered: Mar 2011
Deeply Scared
Administrator
Member # 2
Default  Posted: 1:58 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)

(((Undefinabl3)))

When my grandma was 89 she was diagnosed with breast cancer, they offered her a double mastectomy but she declined. She did live a relatively healthy rest of her life for 4 more years.


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 192147 | Registered: May 2002
nowiknow23
Guide
Member # 33226
Default  Posted: 2:01 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)

(((((Undefinabl3 & grama)))))

Keeping her in my thoughts.


You can call me NIK

There's always failure. And there's always disappointment. And there's always loss.
But the secret is learning from the loss, and realizing that none of those holes are vacuums.
- Michael J. Fox


Posts: 22712 | Registered: Aug 2011
Undefinabl3
Member
Member # 36883
Default  Posted: 2:18 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)

Thanks....Ironically, I work in the same building as a very well funded Breast Cancer program (think handbag mogal)....

I have in my contacts 5 of the top breast cancer doctors in at least the midwest.

Looking up the research for the older patient is sad honestly. Most women her age choose to do nothing, so there is very little research for treatment information on women 70 and older.

We knew that we only had a few years. We dont live forever, and lets face it 92 is nothing to sneeze about.

But really, she made it this far, couldn't she have gotten to go out peacefully in her sleep...shit she's earned that right.


Me: 31 MH
Him: 37 MH
~Some days are better then others~

Posts: 1617 | Registered: Sep 2012
click4it
Member
Member # 209
Default  Posted: 3:38 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)

((((undef))))

Its still possible at this point? what would she want to do?

My grandma was diagnosed in her late 80's I believe and had the radiation treatments for I believe 6 weeks and I forget what else now. But she is a survivor and will 100 this January 17.


Me: 41
Two boys: 16 and 13
Divorced 12-13-05
d-day 10-02-01

Laughter will cure life's ills. Have you had your laugh today?


Posts: 25502 | Registered: Jun 2002 | From: California
Newlease
Member
Member # 7767
Default  Posted: 4:09 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)

What would you want to do if you were facing the same decision? What does SHE want to do?

Ultimately it is up to each individual how they want the end of their life to go. Or at least it should be.

I would look at the treatment options, and the odds of quality of life with treatment and make a decision from there.

And she could still die peacefully - with pain management it doesn't have to be a horrible end if she chooses not to treat.

Sending strength and peace.

NL


Even if you can't control the world around you, you are still the master of your own soul.

Posts: 7557 | Registered: Aug 2005
JanetS
Member
Member # 2766
Default  Posted: 5:21 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)

I know how sad this is. My mother passed away from cancer at 84 (almost 2 years ago). Her cancer was inoperable, and she chose to not treat with radiation/chemo. Diagnosed in July, lost her in October. For the first 2 months she said she didn't even feel like she had cancer. Then she went downhill, but the pain, for the most part, was not too bad. I turned my family room into a bedroom for her, and fortunately we had access to 12 hours/day care for about the last month.

She was comfortable, watched tv, gave my daughter her history. My daughter published a book (online, not for stores) for our relatives...hard copies were ordered.

Let your grandmother decide what she wants to do, or not do. Support her no matter what her decision. And, I know my mother enjoyed talking with my daughter hour after hour about her life. It filled many of her days.

She was at peace with the knowledge that she was going to her maker. I know her faith made it a lot easier on her.

No matter what she chooses, this is a good time to get her life stories from her.

I'm very sorry about your grandmother. 92 is a good long life. Remember that.

[This message edited by JanetS at 5:28 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)]


Posts: 2484 | Registered: Nov 2003 | From: Niagara-on-the-Lake, Canada
Skan
Member
Member # 35812
Default  Posted: 6:11 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)

I''m glad that you have such good doctors to take advice from. I have a feeling that it will be more of what she wants, than anything else. But for what it''s worth, my 90 year old Aunt is healing up from jaw cancer surgery and is expected to do very well. She''s very healthy and active hopefully your grandmother''s health will help her no matter her choice as well. (((hugs)))


Imagine a ship trying to set sail while towing an anchor. Cutting free is not a gift to the anchor. You must release that burden, not because the anchor is worthy, but because the ship is.

D-Day, June 10, 2012



Posts: 4128 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: So California
Undefinabl3
Member
Member # 36883
Default  Posted: 8:36 AM, August 22nd (Thursday)

What would you want to do if you were facing the same decision? What does SHE want to do?

Personally, i would have never gone to get the biopsy in the first place...what's the point right?

I am just really hoping that my step dad doesnt push her into anything that she really doesnt want to do.

I lost both of my blood gramams 3 weeks apart from each other in 2007. I know about cancer.

I guess i am just pissed off at God, she's lived so well, and had a good life, and then poof...possible cancer. We wont know until next week.

I would look at the treatment options, and the odds of quality of life with treatment and make a decision from there

And that is the get. There is not a research base for women over 80 because many will choose not to do anything about it.

And in all reality, i can see her having surgury to remove the tumor, but aside from that, I dont see her agreeing to anything else.

But then that's it....no more grama's of any kind....Why does the world get lonelier the older you get?


Me: 31 MH
Him: 37 MH
~Some days are better then others~

Posts: 1617 | Registered: Sep 2012
hill
Member
Member # 12166
Default  Posted: 7:28 AM, August 23rd (Friday)

(((huge hugs)))

I'm glad you have some excellent docs you can talk to about this, if need be.

Given her age, if she is healthy, she may opt to do a "lumpectomy" and nothing else. If she has other health risks, such as heart disase, a mastectomy is a much bigger surgery and needs general anesthesia, etc. A mastectomy won't really change her outcome either, given her age. A lumpectomy they can usually do under sedation. She won't need a lymph node biopsy at her age, so a lumpectomy would be a relatively small procedure.

(((hugs)))

[This message edited by hill at 7:28 AM, August 23rd (Friday)]


Posts: 3137 | Registered: Sep 2006
Undefinabl3
Member
Member # 36883
Default  Posted: 7:42 AM, August 23rd (Friday)

Suprisingly, she is fairly open to doing things within reason. I suspect that she would be ok with a lumpectomy, rather then a mastectomy.

The downside is that she already has an issue with anemia, and chemo carries the possibility of being very hard for her to handle.

The research doctor that I spoke with says that there is virtually no study subjects her age to even speculate on. Generally women that age just feel like they have lived a good full life, and choose not to treat. Because of that, the research data pretty much peters of in the late 70's very early 80's.

Not to say that there are not ladies out there that do, but there have been no studies done on advanced age geriatric population.

I am still fighing my feelings on this so much though. Having my other 2 grama's go from cancer, albeit lung cancer, this puts me back to that horrible crazy time. On the other, i am so glad that I am close enough to help, be there for her, and still be able to get good time.

You guys are awesome though - always there with a hug and words of strength.


Me: 31 MH
Him: 37 MH
~Some days are better then others~

Posts: 1617 | Registered: Sep 2012
click4it
Member
Member # 209
Default  Posted: 11:03 AM, August 23rd (Friday)

She's so lucky to have a wonderful, caring granddaughter like you.


Me: 41
Two boys: 16 and 13
Divorced 12-13-05
d-day 10-02-01

Laughter will cure life's ills. Have you had your laugh today?


Posts: 25502 | Registered: Jun 2002 | From: California
Undefinabl3
Member
Member # 36883
Default  Posted: 4:18 PM, August 25th (Sunday)

Its malignant


Me: 31 MH
Him: 37 MH
~Some days are better then others~

Posts: 1617 | Registered: Sep 2012
click4it
Member
Member # 209
Default  Posted: 11:47 PM, August 25th (Sunday)

(((((((undef))))))))

I'm so sorry. I know this is not the news you were wanting.


Me: 41
Two boys: 16 and 13
Divorced 12-13-05
d-day 10-02-01

Laughter will cure life's ills. Have you had your laugh today?


Posts: 25502 | Registered: Jun 2002 | From: California
Undefinabl3
Member
Member # 36883
Default  Posted: 7:24 AM, August 26th (Monday)

She's thinking about doing treatment since apparently you can take pills now. I tried to explain to her that just because its a pill and not a port that the side effects are horrible. But how do you squash someone's hope like that?

They go on wed. to discuss options and what other tests they need to do.


Me: 31 MH
Him: 37 MH
~Some days are better then others~

Posts: 1617 | Registered: Sep 2012
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 7:29 AM, August 26th (Monday)

Any chance you can go along with them to the appointment since this is kinda your gig?
The really need to have the quality/quantity discussion. Seriously the hard questions need to be asked. If nohthing is done, what is the possible outcome? Meaning how long before the breast cancer gets her? There multiple types of breast cancer, and some are slow growing. You need to rule out that it's not one of those. If it is, then it may be something she would pass with, not from. Not unlike prostate cancer in older men.

The chronic anemia is common the octogenerian patient population and beyond. But she probably needs a work up to determine why prior to starting any type of aggressive treatment.

((((and strength ))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 14 & 16
Married for 21 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 6631 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
Undefinabl3
Member
Member # 36883
Default  Posted: 12:08 PM, August 26th (Monday)

I wish i could, but she's not open to having everyone there. My mom and my step dad are going - I would love to pass on some questions to my mom though.

Wed. will tell us more about what stage it is in, and get her scheduled for a PET scan to see if it has already spread. Chances are high that it is in her lymph nodes by her breast, and possibly the ones in her lower back (has been having unexplained pain there recently).

Just by reading up on it and getting the information she is at least at Stage 2B, and if they find anything on the PET Scan anywhere else, she automatically goes to stage 4.

Stage 2 carries with it Lumpectomy, radiation therapy, and chemo.

Stage 4, is just not a happy time at all....

The doctor seems to think that since Grama is in good health for her age, that she could withstand the treatments.

I think its a load of crap. I have read up on some of these oral treatments and there's just the same issues as with the IV.


Me: 31 MH
Him: 37 MH
~Some days are better then others~

Posts: 1617 | Registered: Sep 2012
click4it
Member
Member # 209
Default  Posted: 12:58 PM, August 26th (Monday)

(((undef)))


Me: 41
Two boys: 16 and 13
Divorced 12-13-05
d-day 10-02-01

Laughter will cure life's ills. Have you had your laugh today?


Posts: 25502 | Registered: Jun 2002 | From: California
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 1:34 PM, August 26th (Monday)

((((Undef))))

Remeber these Oncologists, and surgeons are focused on heal get well, heal, get well. Sometime lack the ability to look at things in a realistic view. I think the questions of quality vs quantity are valid, and very important to ask.

If she has it in her lymph nodes its stage 4. You are right that is not a great place as far as treatment goes. Please encourage your mom to ask about Palliative medicine vs. surgery and chemo. Radiation therapy, and lumpectomy is not that terrible. But I definately would be concerned about doing anything more than that. Even if she is still strong and independent, she is 92. That is 92 years of wear and tear on her heart, her lungs, her liver, her muscles, all of it.
Unfortunatley in my 21+ years of doing this nursing thing I have seen more than my fair number of Dr's that just don't have the balls to be honest with people. Which I still don't get. Why would you cheat someone out of quality with the time they have left ?!?!


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 14 & 16
Married for 21 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 6631 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
Undefinabl3
Member
Member # 36883
Default  Posted: 2:33 PM, August 26th (Monday)

Unfortunatley in my 21+ years of doing this nursing thing I have seen more than my fair number of Dr's that just don't have the balls to be honest with people. Which I still don't get. Why would you cheat someone out of quality with the time they have left ?!?!

This is what I fear. All they want to do is heal, but they cheat the people out of the quality.

Both of my other grama's wished and regreted trying treatment, and they were 78 and 82...10 to 12 years more and now my last grama.

Grama B want's to stay home, she's so independant, and she asked me if she did this would she be able to stay home....I said no, probably not. We could get her nurses i am sure, but she would need almost round the clock care with Chemo - its just that hard on the body.

She looked deflated, but I couldn't lie to her. I worry that the doctor will make it out to be less then it could be. By the time she figures it out, it could be to late to have any quality of life left.

I know i am selfish, to want her around for a while longer, but not so selfish that I would try to get her to do something I know will cause more harm then good.


Me: 31 MH
Him: 37 MH
~Some days are better then others~

Posts: 1617 | Registered: Sep 2012
EvenKeel
Member
Member # 24210
Default  Posted: 1:19 PM, August 27th (Tuesday)

But then that's it....no more grama's of any kind....Why does the world get lonelier the older you get?

I get this - hugs!


When someone shows you their true colors, don't try to repaint them.

Posts: 1875 | Registered: May 2009 | From: Pa
Undefinabl3
Member
Member # 36883
Default  Posted: 12:50 PM, August 28th (Wednesday)

YEAH!! some good news!! and not so good news....

So, there is no swelling in the nodes. They have scheduled her Mastectomy for September 10th. The mass is 3mm, so not really small.

But, this is an Estrogen Positive slow growth tumor and they are going to only do a pill that will suppress the estrogen and suppress the growth of further cancer (at this point)

I would still really like a second opinion, but i dont think i will have enough pull to do it. My mom has exhaled so its like she's settled on this news.

At least there is no chemo at this point, but recovery will be rough for Grama B.


Me: 31 MH
Him: 37 MH
~Some days are better then others~

Posts: 1617 | Registered: Sep 2012
tryingagain74
Member
Member # 33698
Default  Posted: 4:43 PM, August 28th (Wednesday)

No advice, just hugs:

(((Undefinabl3)))


BS (Me) 39
Happily liberated!
Two DS and One DD
It matters not how strait the gate,/How charged with punishments the scroll./I am the master of my fate:/I am the captain of my soul.--"Invictus," William Ernest Henley

Posts: 3406 | Registered: Oct 2011
hill
Member
Member # 12166
Default  Posted: 7:02 PM, August 28th (Wednesday)

(((hugs)))

At least she knows the plan and can prepare.

Do you mean 3 CM? 3 MM is actually small for a breast tumor.


Posts: 3137 | Registered: Sep 2006
Undefinabl3
Member
Member # 36883
Default  Posted: 7:37 AM, August 29th (Thursday)

Do you mean 3 CM? 3 MM is actually small for a breast tumor.

Yes, i meant CM, thank you.

This puts her squarely in Stage 2, and as long as the mastectomy and the pills work, she will stay that way. If it has spread to any place else, she will immediately be considered stage 4 and the options for that are not nearly as nice.

You guys have been great, SI is a life forum, not just a forum for BS's and WS's.

I know that its main goal is to help people through infidelity, which ever the road may go.....but having the OT threads, it just makes it so much more then Surviving Infidelity....its more like Surviving Life in General!


Me: 31 MH
Him: 37 MH
~Some days are better then others~

Posts: 1617 | Registered: Sep 2012
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 7:43 AM, August 29th (Thursday)

(((Undef)))
That is not such bad news. I would make sure that she has clearance from her Dr before surgery, that they do at a minimum an EKG, if not a stress test.
She may be very healthy in appearance, but can some blockage in her heart vessels, that could lead to complications from surgery.
Anytime someone over the age of 75 gets anesthesia it's a big deal, and should warrant a cardiac workup prior to.

((((and strength))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 14 & 16
Married for 21 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 6631 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
nowiknow23
Guide
Member # 33226
Default  Posted: 7:58 AM, August 29th (Thursday)

Sending you and your grandma continued strength and comfort. ((((hugs))))


You can call me NIK

There's always failure. And there's always disappointment. And there's always loss.
But the secret is learning from the loss, and realizing that none of those holes are vacuums.
- Michael J. Fox


Posts: 22712 | Registered: Aug 2011
Undefinabl3
Member
Member # 36883
Default  Posted: 7:23 AM, August 30th (Friday)

Tushnurse - She gets all of that done on the 4th. I hope that everything comes back ok.


Me: 31 MH
Him: 37 MH
~Some days are better then others~

Posts: 1617 | Registered: Sep 2012
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 8:03 AM, August 30th (Friday)

That's great Undef -
Now my other gems of wisdom include some other technical stuff, but this to ensure she has the best outcome possible.

Make sure that the Dr orders PT/OT (physical and occupational therapies). In the hospitals now, all to frequently the RN's, and Techs just dont have time to walk folks. If this doesn't happen for a day or two for someone in their 90's when they do get up they are weak as kittens.
The sooner she gets up and moving the better.
The family may want to make a plan on who will be staying with her at the hospital as well, in case she gets confused or agitated with the pain medications and anesthesia. Even the most on top of it patients can get confused, and it is a huge reassurance for the patient to have a family member in their room with them, especially at night.
Lastly make sure you talk with the Case Manager/Discharge Planner as soon as possible, to be sure you have all the help and tools you need when she is discharged. She will likely have limited movement of the arm on the affected side, and will need some help with simple things like cutting up food etc.

Wishing you all the best.
(((((Undef and Gma))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 14 & 16
Married for 21 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 6631 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
Undefinabl3
Member
Member # 36883
Default  Posted: 9:16 AM, August 30th (Friday)

Make sure that the Dr orders PT/OT (physical and occupational therapies). In the hospitals now, all to frequently the RN's, and Techs just dont have time to walk folks. If this doesn't happen for a day or two for someone in their 90's when they do get up they are weak as kittens.

Apparently this is already in the work and my mom will be in contact with the company providing the home care OT/PT after she gets home.

The family may want to make a plan on who will be staying with her at the hospital as well, in case she gets confused or agitated with the pain medications and anesthesia. Even the most on top of it patients can get confused, and it is a huge reassurance for the patient to have a family member in their room with them, especially at night.

My step father is retired, so he will be handling alot of her care, but then I think they plan to move in to her house for a little while.

They wanted her to stay with them, but my 2 brother's are living with my mom and step dad and its just to much comotion for Grama B.

Lastly make sure you talk with the Case Manager/Discharge Planner as soon as possible, to be sure you have all the help and tools you need when she is discharged. She will likely have limited movement of the arm on the affected side, and will need some help with simple things like cutting up food etc.

This is going to be the worst part of the whole thing. Grama B is very instistant that she keeps her independance, so I have a feeling that we will have to fight her a lot on this aspect.

We have also already contacted the place that will help her with the bras with the fill in it to keep her balanced and such.


Its so over whelming, to think at 92 she would have to deal with all of it. We try to help all the time, but she is a woman who just does it because she's so independant.


Me: 31 MH
Him: 37 MH
~Some days are better then others~

Posts: 1617 | Registered: Sep 2012
Undefinabl3
Member
Member # 36883
Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, September 12th (Thursday)

Well, her surgery went really well. They did a full mastectomy on the right side, and took a lymph node to have it analyzed.

Grama B is doing relly well and resting at my mom and step dad's house, but she homes to be back home on Saturday. We will see.

so far....so good.

Thanks for all the mojo!!


Me: 31 MH
Him: 37 MH
~Some days are better then others~

Posts: 1617 | Registered: Sep 2012
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 2:32 PM, September 12th (Thursday)

(((undef and Gma))))
Glad to hear all is well. Was thinking of yas yesterday actually.

Sounds like she is too stubborn to let anything really bad happen.

(((and mojo and strength))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 14 & 16
Married for 21 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 6631 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
Topic Posts: 33